Author Topic: James Arthur Ray - Angel Valley Resort DeathSweat in Sedona: 3 dead, 20 injured  (Read 190518 times)

Re: Angel Valley Resort Sweat Lodge in Sedona: 2 dead, 19 injured
« Reply #90 on: November 01, 2009, 01:01:24 pm »
This article was published in a Canadian newspaper and recounts the experiences of one of the participants in Ray's death tent.

Couple of things jumped out at me in this article.  Firstly, the fellow says that, while attempting to get out of the enclosure, he ". . .collapsed on the coals, burning his arm." 

This is the first I'd heard that there were coals inside. If this is the case, then it seems likely that  carbon monoxide poisoning could have killed participants.

Taking smoldering embers or coals into an enclosed space?  This is a reminder to me that this is about twinkie practices, not Indian ones.

And just how stupid did the victims have to be, to sit around actual combustion in a closed-in space?

Which has me wondering whether by "coals" he meant merely "hot rocks" instead....

Otherwise, you know, we could market a great bargain plan, much cheaper than Ray's, where you tack-and-duct-tape some plastic sheeting up on a gazebo, and put your coal-burning barbecue inside it along with some lawn chairs, some incense for the coals, a stereo with New Age music, and play the marks out for only a few hundred dollars apiece. Serve Jonestown lemonade to speed things up. Catch up with the comet's crew. December 2012 is coming soon, don't miss the rush. What really is the percentage genetic difference between human beings and lemmings?

Damn, I woke up cynical today. Maybe if I go back to sleep for a while, that will change. Sorry for the foul mood.

Offline tachia

  • Posts: 141
Re: Angel Valley Resort Sweat Lodge in Sedona: 2 dead, 19 injured
« Reply #91 on: November 06, 2009, 03:35:03 am »
anyone know anything about this? ..
(i received this third hand from a friend in germany, it appears that some of the LP support groups are circulating this and that it is making the rounds on the internet)
all i see are red flags .. .. jmo

Von: LPSG:TN (504058116)
An: (212441130)
Datum: 03.11.2009 04:35:02
Betreff: Leonard Crowdog Needs Our Help ~ Please Repost~URGENT~


A forward to the Peltier group Billie ~ I have been in contact for the last couple of days with Leonard Crowdog. He is currently in New Mexico on his way to Arizona because of the disaster with the sweatlodge death as you have probably heard about. There were three people that died in that sweatlodge ceremoney and Leonard Crowdogs with 7 other AIM groups are on there way there to prefrom a cermony and sort things out as to what happend. Right now i am the only contact person he does not want to talk to anybody because he is performing a four day cermony. However all the rocks they bring for this ceremony have to be inspected they have to pay 250 dollar per cermony, the willows of the inipi, the chanupa and everything else were conviscated as evidence. Leonard Crowdog needs our help. It is going to cost 1500 dollars to perform the cermonies and to feed the people participating in this event. He has a meeting with the govenor of Arizona to try to accomplish that not all sweatlodges across the nation will be shut down. If anybody is having sweatlodge ceremonies he want people to do the following. To pray for the rocks, willows, water. fire and the chanupa's that witness these death. He also want people to place the the four direction colors in the sweatlodge and place a stick outside of the sweatlodge were the altar would be with prayers for the people that died. Right now he is in need of 1500 dollars to perform all of this and is setting up a fund that is called "Lakoto cermonial way of life for all man kind" All donations can be sent to this fund c/o Marianne van Gulijk, 5090 Brush Ridge Court, Columbus, Ohio 43228. Any question can be called into 614-870-3334 or 614-530-2344. This is very serious, right now I am the only contact person because he will be in ceremony for the next four days. Please let us all give him the support he needs so that we can preserve the Native Traditions that they all have fought for so hard. As soon as I get more updates I will let you know. Thanks, Marianne



Offline Edge

  • Posts: 19
Re: Angel Valley Resort Sweat Lodge in Sedona: 2 dead, 19 injured
« Reply #92 on: November 06, 2009, 05:54:20 am »
I have not received anything like this. Thanks for posting this.

With all the scams going on with the internet today, it would not surprise me if someone tries to exploit this tragedy as well.

I like the way the woman who wrote this letter spelled "ceremony"...."ceremoney" is truly more like it.

Offline taraverti

  • Posts: 82
Re: Angel Valley Resort Sweat Lodge in Sedona: 2 dead, 19 injured
« Reply #93 on: November 06, 2009, 04:14:27 pm »
Since it wasn't really a sweat lodge, (and everyone who knows anything about real sweat lodges knows that) but rather a hot house/death box, I think you are right about the red flags.

Re: Angel Valley Resort Sweat Lodge in Sedona: 2 dead, 19 injured
« Reply #94 on: November 06, 2009, 04:20:02 pm »
.    
« Last Edit: March 25, 2010, 03:30:11 am by critter »
press the little black on silver arrow Music, 1) Bob Pietkivitch Buddha Feet http://www.4shared.com/file/114179563/3697e436/BuddhaFeet.html

Offline flyaway

  • Posts: 81
  • "Your mind is your strongest weapon"
Re: Angel Valley Resort Sweat Lodge in Sedona: 2 dead, 19 injured
« Reply #95 on: November 07, 2009, 12:04:57 am »
anyone know anything about this? ..
(i received this third hand from a friend in germany, it appears that some of the LP support groups are circulating this and that it is making the rounds on the internet)
all i see are red flags .. .. jmo

Von: LPSG:TN (504058116)
An: (212441130)
Datum: 03.11.2009 04:35:02
Betreff: Leonard Crowdog Needs Our Help ~ Please Repost~URGENT~


A forward to the Peltier group Billie ~ I have been in contact for the last couple of days with Leonard Crowdog. He is currently in New Mexico on his way to Arizona because of the disaster with the sweatlodge death as you have probably heard about. There were three people that died in that sweatlodge ceremoney and Leonard Crowdogs with 7 other AIM groups are on there way there to prefrom a cermony and sort things out as to what happend. Right now i am the only contact person he does not want to talk to anybody because he is performing a four day cermony. However all the rocks they bring for this ceremony have to be inspected they have to pay 250 dollar per cermony, the willows of the inipi, the chanupa and everything else were conviscated as evidence. Leonard Crowdog needs our help. It is going to cost 1500 dollars to perform the cermonies and to feed the people participating in this event. He has a meeting with the govenor of Arizona to try to accomplish that not all sweatlodges across the nation will be shut down. If anybody is having sweatlodge ceremonies he want people to do the following. To pray for the rocks, willows, water. fire and the chanupa's that witness these death. He also want people to place the the four direction colors in the sweatlodge and place a stick outside of the sweatlodge were the altar would be with prayers for the people that died. Right now he is in need of 1500 dollars to perform all of this and is setting up a fund that is called "Lakoto cermonial way of life for all man kind" All donations can be sent to this fund c/o Marianne van Gulijk, 5090 Brush Ridge Court, Columbus, Ohio 43228. Any question can be called into 614-870-3334 or 614-530-2344. This is very serious, right now I am the only contact person because he will be in ceremony for the next four days. Please let us all give him the support he needs so that we can preserve the Native Traditions that they all have fought for so hard. As soon as I get more updates I will let you know. Thanks, Marianne




http://www.linkedin.com/profi le?authToken=kngV&viewProfile=&authType=name&locale=en_US&ke y=16354320

This is what I found on this woman. also noted the date of this post as 03/11/09. According to the site she is Dutch and it is not of the Lakota ways to do things in this manner. Yes this is a scam. So SHE is the one and only to be contacted. LOL I pray no one falls for this crap. Another piece of info, Leonard would build their own Inipi and bring their own Chanupa. How so very sad that so many was"chisu" do not even respect a time as this , well than again they do not respect theirselve!!!
Walk with the Sun; Dance with the Moon; Sing with the Stars; But always...Run with the Wind. -
Snow Owl, Nevada. December 8, 2001

Offline dabosijigwokush

  • Posts: 265
« Last Edit: November 07, 2009, 04:01:24 am by dabosijigwokush »

Offline oldspirit

  • Posts: 5
Re: Angel Valley Resort Sweat Lodge in Sedona: 2 dead, 19 injured
« Reply #97 on: November 07, 2009, 04:12:11 am »
Here's Ray's website with an update on Oct. 29th...
http://jamesray.com/
...and reading his words...
>Quote>I will keep you updated regularly as we move forward about our progress and about our plans for rescheduling the postponed events.
Much love and respect,
James Arthur Ray
President/CEO
James Ray International<End Quote
http://blog.jamesray.com/labels/sedona%20tragedy.html

...then going to his events schedule...
http://jamesray.com/events/

...and seeing a Sedona Spiritual Warrior Event for Sept. 18th - 23rd, 2010...
http://jamesray.com/events/event-dates.php
http://jamesray.com/events/spiritual-warrior.php

... and then reading these words of his on the bottom of the Spiritual Warrior page...
Quote>You owe it to the rest of your life to get to Spiritual Warrior as quickly as you can. The investment is ONLY $9695 per person.<End Quote

He just does not get it!  does he? ...sad

Offline dabosijigwokush

  • Posts: 265
Re: Angel Valley Resort Sweat Lodge in Sedona: 2 dead, 19 injured
« Reply #98 on: November 07, 2009, 04:15:11 am »
i got a report he was chased out of pa 12 to 15 years ago

Offline NDN_Outlaw

  • Posts: 104
Re: Angel Valley Resort Sweat Lodge in Sedona: 2 dead, 19 injured
« Reply #99 on: November 07, 2009, 05:14:06 am »
No ones dancing to James Ray's agenda but James Ray himself. "Denial is Bliss" would be an appropriate program for him to deliver for a dollar a day at Pelican Bay max prison. Pompous creep!

Offline educatedindian

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Re: Angel Valley Resort Sweat Lodge in Sedona: 2 dead, 19 injured
« Reply #100 on: November 07, 2009, 03:37:10 pm »
i got a report he was chased out of pa 12 to 15 years ago

Could you tell us more?

Found this. Ray's claims are even more bizarre than we thought.

--------------------
http://www.earnedmedia.org/maryk1027.htm
'Secret' Theory of James Arthur Ray is Flawed, Says Commentator, Best-Selling Author Jim Garlow
Contact: Mary Kuper, 619-972-2221, marykuper7@yahoo.com

SAN DIEGO, Oct. 27 /Christian Newswire/ -- Did self-proclaimed personal-success strategist James Arthur Ray reveal a flaw in his teachings on the principles of the The Secret (Rhonda Byrne, Atria Books, 2006) during his "spiritual warrior" spiritual cleansing ceremony at a new-age sweat lodge in Sedona this month where three attendees died, another in critical care, and 19 hospitalized?

"Yes." says San Diego megachurch pastor and best-selling author Dr. Jim Garlow, author of The Secret Revealed; Heaven and the Afterlife; and New York Times bestseller Cracking DiVinci's Code.

"Byrne's The Secret prominently features the teachings of James Arthur Ray, even including him in the 'Biographies' section at the end of the book. Many people do not realize how truly bizarre the central theme of The Secret really is," said Garlow. "They mistakenly think it is just another self-help, positive mental attitude book. It is not!"

"Byrne claims that people can project their thoughts into the universe like some sort of a radio transmitter." Garlow said "Then the universe is bound, according to The Secret, to give them things based on those thoughts. Succinctly said, this is totally bogus."

Garlow further stated: "Byrne -- and others who teach such things -- might be sincere, but they are sincerely wrong. The tragedy is not merely that people died, as horrible as that is. What is more preposterous is that there are still people willing to defend the rampant flaws of the message of The Secret. There will be many more casualties -- emotional, financial and otherwise -- of this dangerous and highly flawed system of thought."

James Arthur Ray uses the principles of the "Law of Attraction" found in The Secret during his wealth-building seminars and ceremonies for achieving personal success, claiming that "the Universe" is saying, "Your wish is my command."

Was "the Secret" applied during the spiritual cleansing ceremony within the destructive confines of the new-age sweat lodge where three people perished? If so, it surely did not work....

Offline tachia

  • Posts: 141
Re: Angel Valley Resort Sweat Lodge in Sedona: 2 dead, 19 injured
« Reply #101 on: November 07, 2009, 06:55:14 pm »
just an update on the bulletin about crowdog .. ..

as i had thought, apparently the letter is a scam ..

here is the retraction that the LPDOC group posted, again this is from my friend in germany .. i have yet to see it posted publicly .. so "Marianne van Gulijk" could very well be receiving money from people who did not get the retraction ..


Von:LPSG:TN
Datum 04 Nov 2009, 02:12
Betreff:~MUST READ Leonard Crowdog Has NOT Authorized anyone~
Text:
Billie Fidlin sent a message to the members of Leonard Peltier. Subject: URGENT
"Leonard Crowdog has not authorized anyone to collect funds. He asks that this effort cease."



also jfi .. the LPDOC group (their URL: www.myspace.com/strongheart58) that posted it seems to not know much about the issue of Peltier, the website they have up for Peltier is the old LPDC one that has been inactive since early 2008 .. lol .. my opinion is that they are just another group of wannabes satisfying their pretindian egos through their uninformed support of Peltier .. so for them to post that letter is really no surprise .. such things happen far too often, post the "look at me and how important i am to know this" without first checking the facts .. imo people like that are too ignorant of the issues to even see the red flags the rest of us see in such things .. .. jmo though .. ..

Offline Superdog

  • Posts: 443
Re: Angel Valley Resort Sweat Lodge in Sedona: 2 dead, 19 injured
« Reply #102 on: November 07, 2009, 10:32:51 pm »
Here's Marianne's twitter page...

http://twitter.com/sadeydog

Reading it through she does seem to have a need for money.  One of her tweets talks about having her electricity turned off.  She lists her occupation as agricultural and immigration specialist. 

I'd probably keep in mind that there's a possibility she's somewhat innocent.  There's no guarantee she knows who Leonard Crow Dog is and that she might be in contact with someone claiming to be him and needing money.  From her tweets it seems as if her son is dealing with addiction and I can imagine another scenario where he would use her e-mail to attempt to collect money (addiction causes the ultimate crazy types of behavior).  Don't know anything for sure, that's just my imagination running a little, but it all gets figured out by having authorities contact her first and letting her know that her name is all over a fraudulent request for funds in someone else's name and finding out what the whole deal behind it is.

Superdog

Offline oldspirit

  • Posts: 5
Re: Angel Valley Resort Sweat Lodge in Sedona: 2 dead, 19 injured
« Reply #103 on: November 08, 2009, 02:53:25 am »
here is something else I just came across that makes me wonder... Anyone know about any of this?

http://eideard.wordpress.com/2009/10/10/two-die-at-arizona-spirit-sweat-lodge/
>Quote from reply message on above website<>>>>The Chumash Indians are the keepers of the western gate for what is known by most as Turtle Island. One of their traditional practioners, Mahiwo, is now in the Sedona area to help with the transition of souls and heal the hearts and emotions in this great atrosophy and for the participants of catastrophy.
Many of the people in the incident have now returned home.
You can contact us at eyeofthesoul@live.com and we will pass a message on to Mahiwo.<End quote<

I'm guessing here, yet I think this is Mahiwo...
http://eyeofthesoul.gaia.com/

Mahiwo Agdeppa
Title: Sustainable Advocate

Gender: Male

Location: California

About Me:

Traditonal Cultural Practitioner for the Dolphin Clan of Chumash Indians whose territorial boundery is from Topanga to Carpenteria California.

My ethnic is Chumash, Cherokee,Apache, Philipino and Irish

Most my life has been dedecated to the traditional medicine of my Chumash Heritage



Offline tachia

  • Posts: 141
Re: Angel Valley Resort Sweat Lodge in Sedona: 2 dead, 19 injured
« Reply #104 on: November 08, 2009, 07:34:01 pm »
Here's Marianne's twitter page...

http://twitter.com/sadeydog

Reading it through she does seem to have a need for money.  One of her tweets talks about having her electricity turned off.  She lists her occupation as agricultural and immigration specialist. 

I'd probably keep in mind that there's a possibility she's somewhat innocent.  There's no guarantee she knows who Leonard Crow Dog is and that she might be in contact with someone claiming to be him and needing money.  From her tweets it seems as if her son is dealing with addiction and I can imagine another scenario where he would use her e-mail to attempt to collect money (addiction causes the ultimate crazy types of behavior).  Don't know anything for sure, that's just my imagination running a little, but it all gets figured out by having authorities contact her first and letting her know that her name is all over a fraudulent request for funds in someone else's name and finding out what the whole deal behind it is.

Superdog

superdog ..

your right .. there are many possibilities as the whys and hows of this letter .. .. indeed the letter raised huge red flags for me and i figured that it was a scam .. on the other hand i did stop and think, why would a scam artist place their full name, address and two phone numbers in this letter .. ..

i do believe that we all should check things out as thoroughly as possible .. checking things out was the reason i posted the letter in here .. to see if anyone else had any information about the contents etc .. but that was not the only step i have taken .. in addition to talking to many others in an effort to find out more, i have repeatedly called the two numbers listed for "marianne" .. others that i have been in contact with have also called repeatedly .. the first number takes you directly to a voice mail/answering machine, where messages have been left (politely) asking for a return call .. the second number gives us a message saying that the person is not taking phone calls at this time .. .. i will, of course, let this forum know if any of my calls are returned and i am able to find out "the story" on this letter ..

personally, i feel that anyone with any insights at all should have seen that this letter was at the very least suspect and most likely a scam .. i feel, like you, that this "marianne" could very well be innocent and was used in some way or another .. if i am placing blame/responsibility on anyone, it is on the original people who sent the letter out on the web without first checking out it's validity .. as i said in my post, this sort of thing happens far too often and innocent people do send their money in .. one of my concerns with this letter was where i received it from .. a friend in germany, who believed it to be true, based on who it originated with, an official LPDOC support group .. and more importantly, the letter was endorsed by billie fidlin, who is an active and current member of the official LPDOC ..  acting in an official capacity for LP these people should know better, they should know to check things out as everything that they do can, and does, reflect back onto LP ..if they endorse a scam, how does that look for LP??? .. .. this letter made its way quite quickly to germany and most likely to other european countries, where interest in the ndn people is huge .. the people who support the causes of the ndn people in europe do not have the means that we do to check things out, and most often rely on the credibility of the sender to ascertain whether it is legit or not .. which is exactly what happened in this case, people relying on the  credibility of LPDOC and their endorsement .. one has to now wonder how much money this scam has generated form innocent people merely wishing to help .. ..

i have always found it telling that the letters asking for money are quite long and quickly make the rounds .. and yet the retractions are very short, without much explanation if any at all, and are not widely distributed and seen .. ..

i do believe that we all have a moral and ethical responsibility to ferret these sort of scams out and inform people as much as we can about them .. and we do know that NAFPS and it's members do exactly that, with all the (hopefully) unbiased research that we all do on things such as this, among others .. .. 

thanks to all of you for your input on this letter .. i will let you all know if i find out the real story behind it ..

tachia