Author Topic: Joachim Irmer in Germany  (Read 16606 times)

Offline educatedindian

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Joachim Irmer in Germany
« on: October 03, 2009, 01:25:00 pm »
I received a request to find out more about Joachim Irmer in Germany. He runs sweats and charges 75 euros.

His claim is he is "erloudet" to run ceremonies and calls himself a bishop and main leader.


Renee

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Re: Joachim Irmer in Germany
« Reply #1 on: October 03, 2009, 02:29:06 pm »
I received a request to find out more about Joachim Irmer in Germany. He runs sweats and charges 75 euros.

His claim is he is "erloudet" to run ceremonies and calls himself a bishop and main leader.



http://www.duebbekold.de/duebbekold-joe_irmer.html

.......................Seit 1990 organisiere ich Seminare für amerikanische und kanadische Indianer, die hier bei uns in Dübbekold Veranstaltungen geben und Schwitzhüttenzeremonien machen. Im Sommer reisen wir auf die Reservate und besuchen die Indianer vor Ort und lernen von ihnen und unterstützen sie durch unsere Mitarbeit. Der alljährliche Sonnentanz, an dem ich teilnehme, ist ein wichtiger Bestandteil der indianischen Zeremonien. Die europäischen SonnentänzerInnen und UnterstützerInnen bereiten sich auf Ihren Sonnentanz mit den Herbst- und Frühjahrsfastenzeiten bei uns vor.

Dann leite ich noch die monatlichen Schwitzhütten................................

 http://www.duebbekold.de/index-en.html


 ..........Neighbors call us „the Indians“…
... during the spring and summer months, when our tepees show from far off and drums and singing sound through the valley. We run monthly sweats open to the public; there are educational workshops on Indian culture, which go over one year, and special events such as vision quests and sun dance fasting groups. Canadian and North American natives visit us regularly and teach those interested in tradition, culture, healing and personal development......

 

Offline Ingeborg

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Re: Joachim Irmer in Germany
« Reply #2 on: October 03, 2009, 08:56:04 pm »
I received a request to find out more about Joachim Irmer in Germany. He runs sweats and charges 75 euros.

His claim is he is "erloudet" to run ceremonies and calls himself a bishop and main leader.

Irmer's name came up several times here, e.g. in the thread on Pablo Russell and this one:

http://www.newagefraud.org/smf/index.php?topic=2203.0

Irmer describes himself as one of the 'heirs' of Archie Fire Lame Deer and claims the Blackfoot made him a bishop, therefore he says he's the highest ranking ndn representative in Europe.

The German term 'erlaubt' translates as 'authorized'.

Offline Ingeborg

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Re: Joachim Irmer in Germany
« Reply #3 on: October 03, 2009, 11:02:14 pm »
(I recommend to move this thread to the fraud section)

Here's Irmer's intro from his website – the site is also available in English language:


http://www.duebbekold.de/duebbekold-joe_irmer.html


Quote
Born in 1954, a trained blacksmith and welder and craftsman, I have been working freelance for more than 35 years; first as a shop owner and then as a craftsman helping to construct houses, and then as a teacher running seminars and organizing workshops for others.

In my time as a shop owner of a health food store I came into contact with nature and the preservation of the environment. After having met Native Indian medicine men I deepened my connection and vowed to spend my life serving „Mother Nature“.

Since 1990 I have been organizing workshops for American and Canadian Native Indians, who come here to teach and run sweatlodges. In the summer, we travel to the reservation and visit with them and learn from them and support with sharing the work load. The annual sun dance, in which I take part, is very important among the Native Indian ceremonies. The European sun dancers and supporters prepare themselves for this dance with their annual fall and spring fast here in Duebbekold.

I run monthly sweats which are open to the public and offer vision quests for people who – after proper preparation – retreat from the outside world to mother nature to fast and find answers and healing for personal purposes.
The educational program Der Kreis (The Circle Seminars) was once developed upon requests by participants of sweatlodges and Indian workshops, who wished to deepen their knowledge of working in the nature and leading people in groups professionally. Some of these courses I run myself (Circle I and Circle II), in others my wife, Kirsten Irmer, joins me.

„Indian Time“is a new program for children of ages 8-13 years, designed to entertain and teach them while on holiday with their parents. They learn many interesting subjects and also partake in a sweatlodge ceremony.

translation found on site

It is an interesting way to ensure future clients that Irmer sells sweatlodges for children... (cf last paragraph in his intro).


In their photo gallery part, there is one set of photos with Pablo Russell, Morris Crow, and Mike Chirobokov:

http://www.duebbekold.de/galerie-pablo_2002-en.html

Another one is titled 'Archie Fire Lame Deer'; it's photos from the 2001 memorial meeting:

http://www.duebbekold.de/galerie-memorial_2001-en.html


Irmer has changed his site since my last visit – there are no price tags. Irmer's claim to have been made a bishop by the Blackfoot nation also seems to have been taken down meanwhile. However, it can still be found in other places, like the following newspaper article from German daily 'taz', dd July 22, 2007:


http://www.taz.de/index.php?id=archivseite&dig=2006/07/22/a0207

„The Indian from Wendland region

Joachim Irmer walks the „Indian path“. In the vicinity of Lueneburg, he founded a seminar house with sweatlodge and tipis. He participated 13 times in the sundance, the most sacred ceremony of the US-American Lakota

[…]Joe Irmer places himself in this tradition. He walks the „Indian path“ and he has got a „reservation“ in the Wendland region. Together with his wife Kirsten, he lives in premises in the village of Duebbekold […]. „We created a place for ceremonies, a place at which we and others can teach and learn“, says Joe Irmer. The tipis, the seminar house and the holiday appartments are a place for like-minded persons of the local „Indian clan“, it is where seminars take place, Indian teachers come, people come for holidays.

[…] but his life did not make sense to him. Until 1989. His turning point came along as an Indian, the medicine man Archie Fire Lame Deer, a traveling Lakota of the Rosebud Reservation, South Dakota, USA. It was going to be a meeting among close relatives. „Archie was a charismatic personality“, Irmer remembers. Perhaps they were a bit alike, as the Lakota knew the rough courses of life from a hard existence at the utter fringe of two cultures (the Indian and the US-American one), mixed with alcohol and violence. Only the death of his father led Lame Deer back to his roots (he was past 40 then) and he became a medicine man, like his ancestors. Joe Irmer found his teacher in him, he found community and inspiration in the sweatlodges, and a sense and direction in the Indian way of life.

[...]so a vision may come. Joachim Irmer had a vision, he meant to lead sweatlodges, he meant to be initiated into the ancient ceremony of cleansing and healing. So for now it was listening, to be tried and tested, to participate in the sundance, the most sacred ceremony of the Lakota, at least four times.

Irmer participated 13 times – with Archie Fire Lame Deer at the Rosebud Reservation, after his death with his new teacher Chief Morris Crow Last Tail Feathers, a Blackfoot, at the Stand-Off-Reserve in Alberta, Canada, 13 times he looked for pain, thirst, hunger, and exhaustion. Dancing from sun-up till sun-down and fasting for four days and nights: this is how border experience is initiated in the merciless heat of the Plains, a chance for insight, an agony reinforced by a piercing; Joe Irmer experienced an „enormous strength“ and a „close tram spirit among the sun dancers“.

For his Indian companions, Joe Irmer's declared belief in their culture since long has become convincing. Blackfoot have bestowed upon him the rank of a bishop, of a spiritual dignitary. Lakota honour him with the name Naa Too Woot Tamis Soo, which in German translation means: „Holy man comes over the hills“. He knows about animals, plants, trees, circles, about nature rituals, and he teaches his knowledge with the same generous helping of humour and irony which Indians often have.“

This article is probably an embarassment even for Irmer – it should be obvious even to the most uninformed nuager in Germany that a 'bishop' is no ndn rank; Irmer's claim has never been anything but ridiculous. He apparently was similarly uninformed about the culture*s of ndn nations, as he manages to pass on the info that the name 'Naa Too Woot Tamis Soo' was Lakota, which it clearly is not.

I would also like to point out that the German original in fact emphasizes Irmer's decisiveness to be taught ndn ceremonies.



According to another regional paper, the memorials for Fire Lame Deer at Irmer's premises started in 2001:


http://www.luene-info.de/index2.html?http://www.luene-info.de/thema/elbmarsch/artikel/themen/indianer/indianer.html

Memorial for a Chief of the Lakota Indians

„Dübbekold. A memorial for a chief of the Lakota Indians ARCHIE FIRE LAME DEER took place in Dübbbekold.
The Chief was a Sioux of who there are seven trives, and came from the reservation of Rosebud in South Dakota. For 25 years, he traveled Europe, did seminars and made it his task to create links between our today's way of life and the traditions ways of his tribe.

With heart and humour, he gave insights into culture and history of his people, showed how it is possible to be in accordance with the powers of nature. Nobody before has managed to build a bridge of understanding and peace between Europeans and Northern American Natives.

The Chief did Januar 16, 2001, he was 65 years of age. To honour and memorize him, this memorial has been organized in Dübbekold together with his son, Chief John Fire Lame Deer. Friends and confidants from Spain, France, Holland, Switzerland, Austria, and America took part.

So a genuine tipi village was erected in Dübbekold, and other camps. During the days in Dübbekold, a baptism and a marriage were carried through. The Dübbekold seminar house Joachim Irmer has been around for four years and was initiator of this meeting. A memorial for the chief was put up in one seminar room. His son will continue his work.
- bk- 07/04/01




A site of a student of Irmer's:

http://www.ikanu.de/page1.html

„My name is Sebastian Michael Harder. I was born in February 1975 in Hamburg […].

Some of the most important teachers on my spiritual path were:
[…] (two persons from whom he learned Tai Chi Chuan and Reiki)
Axel Möller, my first shamanic teacher
Margit Eres Kronenberghs and Birgit Rensch, who taught me to be a curandero and initiated me. […]

I also learned and still learn in seminars by:
Paul Uccusic / FSS (core shamanism)
Joachim Irmer (sweatlodges)
Pablo Russell (medicine wheel)
Lex van Someren
Kiara Windrider
Thomas Young“


Harder offers shamanic journeys:
http://www.ikanu.de/page9.html

„time: approx 60 minutes / approx 90 minutes
fees: Euro 65 / Euro 95“


Offline educatedindian

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Re: Joachim Irmer in Germany
« Reply #4 on: October 04, 2009, 03:02:02 pm »
Moved to Frauds for selling ceremony, making false claims, and association with numerous exploiters.

Selling sweatlodges specifically to children also deserves a special mention. A search turned up that even some exploiters have a problem with that practice and forbid kids in the lodge or at the ceremony.

Others do the opposite, encourage kids there so long as they are with parents. (I even found an exploiter site showing a nursing mother bringing her baby into the lodge.) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2_nU9jlaeYw
But not surprisingly, for non-NDN kids this quickly turns into fantasy role playing.

While teenagers in a sweatlodge is not so unusual, kids younger than that brings special problems, and bringing in babies is even more problematic. At very young ages there may be medical or psych problems not yet diagnosed. And to expect a child to endure the heat?

Offline sam

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Re: Joachim Irmer in Germany
« Reply #5 on: October 10, 2009, 10:37:46 am »
Found this one
www.calakux.org/calendario inipi.html
and can picarola is another place where Irmer
run sweats .
This people even singin holy songs on the streets
to make commercial for there ceremonies
another website where Irmer is mentioned is
Leocadia Schönmaier (indianische weisheiten)



Offline sam

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Re: Joachim Irmer in Germany
« Reply #6 on: October 10, 2009, 10:47:11 am »

Offline Adept

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Re: Joachim Irmer in Germany
« Reply #7 on: October 24, 2009, 02:13:33 am »
Selling sweatlodges specifically to children also deserves a special mention. A search turned up that even some exploiters have a problem with that practice and forbid kids in the lodge or at the ceremony.

Others do the opposite, encourage kids there so long as they are with parents. (I even found an exploiter site showing a nursing mother bringing her baby into the lodge.) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2_nU9jlaeYw
But not surprisingly, for non-NDN kids this quickly turns into fantasy role playing.

While teenagers in a sweatlodge is not so unusual, kids younger than that brings special problems, and bringing in babies is even more problematic. At very young ages there may be medical or psych problems not yet diagnosed. And to expect a child to endure the heat?

The effigy of people be clueless about the dos and don'ts - 
blockheaded and obviously dangerous for health of childs!!!!


German:
Ein Beispiel für die Ahnungslosigkeit dieser Teilnehmern von Fake-Indianer-Zeremonien -
so etwas ist dumm und für die Gesundheit dieser Kinder nicht ungefährlich!!!!


Offline NDN_Outlaw

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Re: Joachim Irmer in Germany
« Reply #8 on: October 24, 2009, 03:27:49 am »
Babies don't need to go into sweat lodge they are pure already. They are the only holy people I know. 

Offline debbieredbear

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Re: Joachim Irmer in Germany
« Reply #9 on: December 13, 2009, 05:14:50 pm »
This was sent by a friend who requested I post it:

"We received reports on Joachim "Joe“ Irmer, Pablo Russell and Mike Chirobokov by several persons:


’We took part in the sweatlodges organized by Irmer and in some of his other ceremonies, too. He also sells Vision Quests.

Irmer was several times told to stop taking money for ceremonies. He claimed payments were donations and simply continued. With 30 or 40 people each paying 75 Euro (around $111.00 US) for a sweat, this amounts to between 2250 Euro and 3000 Euro  . Then add in  the amount  he receives from sales of CDs and DVDs of sacred songs. Also he receives 120  Euro per person from the people taking part in the fasts done twice annually for four days each. Irmer blesses pipes for money, he blesses drums with red ochre  for money (we believe this may only be done by members of certain societies). Morris Crow never took money for ceremonies, he always said a sweat was free and spirituality is not for sale!!!

Irmer dropped the title of a bishop because he was told to stop using it by several Blackfoot. He now calls himself a “main leader from Europe“. My impression is he uses the ceremonies to make money.

John Fire Lame Deer, the son of Archie Fire Lame Deer, does not come to Irmer's house any longer, as Irmer demanded money from the people coming to his father's memorials to honor AFLD.

Irmer cooperates with a person by the name of Pablo Russell and also took part in Russell's Sundance. He also demands 75 Euro for a sweat. He does sweatlodges in Majorca, too, in Can Picarola, the website is run by a certain Ernest Ferrer.

We also talked to people from Canada whom Irmer had invited and who did not know they would be mentioned on his website and given titles like medicine person which they would never use themselves.

Irmer was told by Morris Crow Jr. and other Blackfoot to take down all photos showing Morris Sr. from his site and not to mention his name any longer, but Irmer doesn't comply. Morris Jr. calls Irmer and his ilk “fake asses“. We heard Irmer called a “moneymaker“ by Blackfoot people, and Pablo Russell is called worse. Since wherever he goes, there will always be a woman, and he treats these women badly.

The cooperation with Mike Chirobokov stopped because Morris Crow Sr chucked him out after Mike embezzled the money someone donated to buy a herd of buffaloes for the Blackfoot. Mike also had begun to do ceremonies which he never received the permission to do.

Irmer not only sells sweatlodges, but also Vision Quests. Before you're allowed to do one, you must borrow a pipe and make a large gift to the pipe owner. Then you are expected to give a generous “donation“ to Irmer and, with this pipe, you ask to do a Vision Quest. Russell then tells the questers that he paid his elder about $700, a Pendleton blanket, and tobacco – so everybody thinks they must give even more when a poor native allegedly manages to give such a large amount of money.

The quester also has to buy food for a feast for all people present. Every quester also must have two fire people, and must pay accommodations for the four nights of the quest at Irmer's premises. This is 35 Euro per person and night. Irmer usually accepts between 4 and 6 people for a quest. After the quest is finished, the questers also have to arrange a huge giveaway. [note: with 4 to 6 questers with two fire people each and four nights of quest, this means an income of 1180 and 1620 Euro for accommodations for Irmer.]

Irmer also fiercely advertises for people to support the Sundance. Supporters are told to pay $400 per person. The CDs and DVDs are to be purchases as  a donation for needy elders, but as far as we've seen, he does not know any elders in the first place.

Irmer now goes to Pablo Russell's new Sundance site in Canada because Russell got thrown out by Morris Crow Jr.. He leads the Sundance at Pablo's place together with Russell, Stefan Kobler, and Casey Eagle Feather. Morris Jr. does not want to have any dealings with persons who abused his father's name. Irmer also does “house cleansings“ and “house blessings“ - fees are calculated in accordance to the size, between 300 and 500 Euro. Plus they must provide a large meal, so that it is traditional. He also does ceremonies like the seven feather offering which he puts up in clients' gardens. He blesses everything with red ochre but doesn’t have the right to do this.

Irmer is also selling ceremonies in Spain, and the Spanish website Can Picarola claims all the money taken in was given to the Blackfoot nation. But all one can see is Russell and Irmer showing up at the rez in plush RVs, they will stay for as long as the ceremonies last, and then they're off again.

What Irmer makes of the Sundance path is far more like a cult and doesn’t have much to do with the real Sundance any longer. He can still convince the occasional native with money and pull them over to his side. We more and more understand why Native Americans don't want white persons taking part in their ceremonies now. And we are ashamed about those people who steal Indian religion to make money with it. We wrote these reports to prevent others from being led astray. Thank you for your support."

Offline AnnOminous

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Re: Joachim Irmer in Germany
« Reply #10 on: January 28, 2010, 07:19:29 pm »
Quote
Irmer now goes to Pablo Russell's new Sundance site in Canada because Russell got thrown out by Morris Crow Jr.. He leads the Sundance at Pablo's place together with Russell, Stefan Kobler, and Casey Eagle Feather.


Is this the "Joe" Irmer being referred to?
http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:Vpd2glh74nWbGM:http://www.duebbekold.de/medien/alte-medien/joe.jpg

If so, I can verify that he helped/assisted at said Dance, but to call himself a "main leader" is laughable.
Of course, that entire Sundance might be labled as such.  It was held on Blood Land without Blood support and is almost entirely supported by Europeans and their money.  In fact, without the Europeans paying big bucks to attend, plus doing most of the work to set things up (they were closed down once just before the dance and had to set up from scratch again at a new place.  Which was also shut down after the Dance so the arbor has been moved once again....) the Dance would not have happened.

And just by way of correction: Casey's last name is EagleSpeaker, not Eagle Feather, fwiw.  His "adopted" sons helped out as well. 

But somehow they all still forgot to buy the scalpels and other necessary supplies for piercing and the dance didn't even get started til well into the afternoon on the first day.  Maybe "Joe" was in charge of that little necessary aspect of a piercing sundance....


Offline AnnOminous

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Re: Joachim Irmer in Germany
« Reply #11 on: January 28, 2010, 08:31:55 pm »
If someone could translate these pages it would be appreciated.

Here it looks like Pablo, Joe and Stephan (amongst others) are all in some sort of spiritual profiteering biz together:
http://www.strandbokurser.dk/profiler.htm 

And here it looks like the inevitable pay-to-pray scam:
http://www.strandbokurser.dk/kursusoversigt.htm 

Would appreciate confirmation, correction or clarity.  Thanks in advance.

/AO

Offline chrissy

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Re: Joachim Irmer in Germany
« Reply #12 on: April 04, 2010, 09:01:34 pm »
First link is about: Sweatlodge, Medicine Wheel and Vision Quest

second link
January 9 2010  Stefan Kobbler
New Years sweatlodge price: 400 Kr = 72,36 USD.

April 4 Pablo Russel and Stefan Kobbler
In connection with the Sundancers from across Europe we also have gained the opportunity to hold a sweatlodge. price : 500 Kr = 90,45 USD

April 6 Pablo Russel
lectures : Find your inner Indian. price: 100 Kr = 18,09 USD

Chrissy.


Offline Defend the Sacred

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Re: Joachim Irmer in Germany
« Reply #13 on: April 04, 2010, 11:12:09 pm »
"Find your Inner Indian." ... ... ...  :o

Offline sam

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Re: Joachim Irmer in Germany
« Reply #14 on: January 22, 2011, 10:41:46 am »
now he found another indian to make money michael twofeathers is running sweats and a seminar of corse he dident put a price on the internet.you have to call him or mail him for informations.
he dident remove pictures from the late morris he still sales cds with holy songs