Author Topic: Walter Renz  (Read 98874 times)

Offline Niiki

  • Posts: 216
Re: Walter Renz
« Reply #30 on: July 19, 2009, 12:47:18 pm »
Keely wrote:

"Was playing around with the stereotype... wrote that dumb dumb who has that real Cherokee headress..."
The e-mail reply I got from these people reads that they bought their headresses from the Cherokees in Oklahoma, at their outlet there... I been in Tahlequah many times, and never seen no Cherokee outlet store... been to the CNO store... but no headresses were sold there... Of course the letter that was sent to me says I "can contact the outlet" but they never send me the name of this supposed store.
Since I am a Indian artist and beader, I asked directly for enrollment numbers of the artists they claim they buy from... which is required under the Indian Arts and Crafts Act of 1990, they refused to give me any information other than their artists are Navajo, Cherokee, Zunis and Hopi... I then informed them of the federal law of which clearly states they must give this information to anyone who asks for proof, but they still refuse.
They said that the war bonnet was "is manufactured by the Cherokees" Manufactured?? Yep, that is what they wrote... I can picture all the Indians sitting in a plant now, creating war bonnet after war bonnet LOL So I would guess it is safe to assume they are saying it was made by the Cherokees and sold by the Cherokees since they told me I should contact the Cherokee tribal council if I wanted to complain.
Here is what they wrote about the made in America remark:
"The items we sell are authenticated and most of the jewelry is signed by the artist that made it as well as the headdresses being tagged NATIVE AMERICAN MADE IN USA."
I think this person is defrauding people... I got that gut feeling from their mail to me... specially with the end stating since she was raised in New Mexico she has the most respect for Indian peoples, and tried to leave the impression that without her no Indian made items there would ever get sold...
Keely Squirrel Denning
Loyal Shawnee
Stereotype of the Month Entry
(8/18/00)
of http://www.bluecorncomics.com/stype087.htm
Keely Denning, NY volunteer for nativeweb.org/
NativeWeb founding board member www.nativeweb.org/info/paper.php
In February of 1999, NativeWeb formally incorporated itself as a non-profit corporation
in the State of New York under the name NativeWeb, Inc. It established a formal board of
directors with 10 board members (Marc Becker, Shane Caraveo, David Cole,
Keely Squirrel Denning,
Peter d'Errico, Alan Mandell, Pat Paul, Tara Prindle, Karen Strom, and Carmel Vivier).
The group now included a software programmer; a computer network specialist who was a
member of a Native American tribal council; a lawyer who was a tribal judge; an
independent legislative analyst focusing on native-related issues; a law office
manager and freelance writer who works with native communities in Canada;
a novelist writing stories on native issues; and two university professors:
one a lawyer involved with Indigenous peoples' legal issues and the other a
historian focusing on Indigenous issues in Latin America. NativeWeb has always been a
labor of love, rooted in a volunteer workforce.
Posted at 8:36pm on Wed, Sep 10 2008
http://www.nativeweb.org/info/paper.php
(Was in NY in 1999; NOT in Oklahoma all her life with her "tribe"!)

Offline educatedindian

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 4628
Re: Walter Renz
« Reply #31 on: July 19, 2009, 01:21:32 pm »
Keely says she is Shawnee all her life but this this is what she says in 2002:

Keely Squirrel-Denning:
Enrolled Cherokee 

....And she was looking around for her ancestors in 2004, when she claims she knows who she was all of her life


This is partly what I feared, possibly degenerating into "You're not NDN enough" accusations based on flimsy pretexts or misunderstanding data.
It's not unusual for people to try to look and see what else they can find out about their ancestors, Nikki. I've known several fairly well known NDN historians, who were also enrolled and extremely well known in their communities, who've done that.

Technically this should be yet another thread on Keely, but I don't see how to disentangle them.

I see your point about fraudulent crafts, Keely.

Offline bls926

  • Posts: 655
Re: Walter Renz
« Reply #32 on: July 19, 2009, 06:54:15 pm »
I don't understand Niiki's flip flop on Walter Renz; it's almost like she can't make up her mind about the man.

I think the post made in the Tecumseh Brown thread was used solely to discredit Brown. As someone else told me a few months ago, when trying to explain why he associates with frauds, all support is welcome. Of course, I don't hold with that idea. If someone is not who they claim to be, I really wouldn't want their support. I don't want or need the support of liars and thieves. Guess everyone has their own view on these things.

Warning to Tecumseh Brown Eagle/Abdul Muhammed/James Oliver Johnson 111

----------

From: Chief WALTER T. RENZ

To Whom it comes to their Door,

The person below Mr. Johnson /TBE is not Native American. He uses 7 different Names. And is using bad behaviour as well towards the real Native Americans. We searched for any Native blood and could not find any in his decent. Its time for him to stop all contact with any Government or Tribal Nation using Native name of any kind. We have given the notes to the F.B.I. on him as well. His terrorism is to stop today. It bothers the Elder Chiefs in Canada to no end as well.
Thank you for support.
Chief Walter T. Renz/Graycloud Longtail

-------------------
Mr. Johnson III,
 
After looking over all the files and records we have and have gotten from the researchers that work with us. I have to tell you that Watts does not match your Ancestry. Or the Johnson's you were claiming.. No Native Blood what so ever has been determined by the Tribal Nations on your family history.
 
Your continuous yelling at the Elders and Chiefs , is not one that a real Erie Chief would do. They have said for you to stop calling them and stay away. They have no use for you.
 
We have spoken to you on the Erie name you are using to benefit your pocket. Close the web page it will not benefit you no more.
 
The Shawnee name you claim is not given to you in a traditional way. The Shawnee will be getting this note as well. With your copying of the Tecumseh words on the web page you have. This is a slap in the face of the real Tecumseh with your behaviour.
 
Do not contact us or bother us with your ideas or Casino. We do not want it or need it. Also do not bother the Chiefs in Canada as well. Remove all the contacts you have with the Chiefs and Elders as well. It is so ordered.
 
This is the last notes that you will receive from us. Any more contact from you will not be looked on as a good thing.
 
So Ordered this 8th day the of April 2009 of the above.
Chief Walter Renz/Graycloud Longtail



When Keely pointed out that Renz himself is a fraud, Niiki seemed to agree with this. She said the Six Nations were looking for him. Told Keely in private message that Renz had written bad checks; owed people money. Even went so far as to imply that he had a clinging wife who ran up his cell phone bills. Niiki said there were questions about Renz' genealogy and asked Keely for help filling in the blanks.



Others are looking for him and wondering????

Nikki,

Let me remind you of your private email to me:

Sego, Keely;


   Yes some of us here in Canada met Renz 2 times, as result of contact he made with one of my aquaintenances.

   There are a lot questions that we have about him , as much of what he told us doesn't add up. Especially, when his own people , this Chaliawa Nation really don't support what he does. They want him to do the work for him , but have have not given him any support, financially or physically. He basically told us that his mother, his wife and himself are the ones that do all of the work. The whole time he was here his wife called him about every 5 minutes, which ran up a huge cell phone bill. Then she will also call others up here running up their cell phone bills trying to reach him. He also wrote a cheque for 172.00 that bounced and he has dsihonoured by not covering it, after making several promises to. He also used and mouched off of people's goodness when he was here, promising to return to help us take care of the mounds issue in Toronto. He made several promises and guarentees of return, failing to keep his word. One of our chiefs at Tyendinaga, let me and my aquaintence know that his name is on a "to be dealt with list", because of his lack of keeping his committment to our people, and stating he would be by Stewart Maracle's side to support him. He made a big mistake with Stewart to make such a committment, and then not follow through with it. He is in toruble with the men's councils up here because of this and other things.
There were also questions about his genealogy as certain things do not add up.
Any blanks you can help us fill would greatly be appreciated. Renz also has been warned, that because he did not show up at the Clanmother's meeting at Six Nations Grand Territory last wednesday, his name would be mudd up here. Since then there has been no contact with him, nor have we heard anything from him. Again suspicion that he isn't who has told us he is and that he has no intention in clearing matters up here or taking responsibilty for what he says are his ancestoral sites in Toronto.

Oneh


Niiki from Tyendinga Mohawk Territory
 


And then bam, did a complete turn around. Niiki started to defend Renz and accuse Keely of not being who she knows she is. Now that's crazy talk. Most of us know Keely, have known her for years.

First she tried to say that Keely and her family were really Erie adopted by the Seneca and therefore under the Great Law of the Confederacy. Then she tried to make a big deal out of Keely being enrolled with the CNO. Well, if Niiki knew anything about Shawnee history, she'd know why. The Shawnee have a closer relationship with the Cherokee in Oklahoma than they do the Six Nations Confederacy.

I do believe that Walter Renz has since responded to your email. Also I do want to remind, that since you are Shawnee, you are a cousin under the protection of the Confederacy, and have no voice on your own. As Walter Renz is also under the protection of the Confederacy and any further attacks by you will be viewed as an attack on the entire Six Nations Confederacy. When Walter came to us , he came here to help protect sacred sites, which no one can fault him for. He also has no interest in Casinos or Casino money at what has been suggested here. I would suggest that this entire post on Walter Renz, be removed from this group and disabled. And Keely whatever words you have to say to Walter, since you do have his email, telephone, and address, that you carry that on with him directly and not on any message board and any of your relatives you have felt this same way towards Walter.
And because Walter is also living in the trailer park he is, is no indication of what kind of a human being he is. Get real!


Oneh


Niiki from Tyendianga Mohawk Territory


  I have heard that Keely herself is not who she has led people to believe on line. Stayed tuned for more information on who Keely is. Keely, when you point a finger of judgement at someone, there are always 3 fingers pointing back at you. By the judgement that you put out on Renz, the same judgement will come back at you. I certainly hope you are prepared for the backlash that is coming your way. I tried to warn you , and you have refused to listen. Therefore I do not have any sympathy for you .


Oneh


Niiki from Tyendinaga Mohawk Territory


Why the change in opinion and attitude? Was it because Keely didn't buy into her opinion of the Longtail family or Shawnee in general? Or is it something more?

Who is Niiki? She says she's Mohawk. Funny thing, in all Niiki's posts I have never seen her use Haudenosaunee or even Haude. That seems a little odd. Even if we accept the fact that she's enrolled Mohawk, her statement that she speaks for the Six Nations Confederacy is highly questionable. Threatening Keely with the power of the Confederacy? Now that's blowing smoke.

« Last Edit: July 19, 2009, 07:00:32 pm by bls926 »

Offline Moma_porcupine

  • Posts: 684
  • I love YaBB 1G - SP1!
Re: Walter Renz
« Reply #33 on: July 19, 2009, 09:13:03 pm »
I agree with Al that it's usually frivolous to worry about on line people's identity if they aren't claiming any position of authority ( such as that they are a Shawnee Chief ) or publishing genealogical misinformation, and all to often irrelevent questions about peoples family background gets used as a way to try and discredit someone that someone else doesn't like. But I also noticed and wondered about some of the same stuff bls926 is pointing out.
 
As long as people can back up what they post with independant evidence , I don't think it matters who they are , and anonymous people who occaisionaly mention they have Native ancestry or are Native are probably harmless , but when people use this as something to give themselves authority to speak for their claimed tribe and provide no way to verify this , it gets a bit weird.

I wish that people who claim to be speaking for their tribe who don't use their real name could be discouraged from doing this if there is no other way to verify the tribes general position on these issues .

When people do this anonymously, it's impossible verify they actually have the authority to do this . It gets so it may be one flakey group of people making false claims , denouncing other flakey people making false claims , which gets more than a little wierd. Especially when the people doing this contradict themselves and don't make sense.

And I gotta say , if what Keeley is claiming is true , having her ancestors names wrongly used by someone wanting to make themselves important , is in many ways just as offensive as someone using traditional ceremonies and Prayer to make themselves important.   

That must feel really crappy ...

I feel really bad for anyone having to deal with this.

(edited to fix garbled wording )
« Last Edit: July 20, 2009, 01:45:05 am by Moma_porcupine »

Offline Niiki

  • Posts: 216
Re: Walter Renz
« Reply #34 on: July 20, 2009, 01:43:53 am »
And I gotta say , if what Keeley is claiming is true , having her ancestors names wrongly used by someone wanting to make themselves important , is in many ways just as offensive as someone using traditional ceremonies and Prayer to make themselves important.  

That must feel really crappy ...

I feel really bad for anyone having to deal with this.

Keely has no evidence to back her claims that Walter Renz has ever sold any Native Crafts on Ebay. Anything he has made has been made as gifts and not for sale. He did give something to someone once, and it ended up on ebay. That is totally wrong, for the person who received the gift and then turned around and sold it, to make it look like Walter was selling Native Crafts on ebay. She herself is totally confused about who Walter Renz as well as herself. She has got Walter Renz and his community confused with Hawk Pope and the Shawnee United Remnant Band. For someone to say that they have always lived amoung their people and then of course she actually lived in NYC in 1999, makes her stories not add up.
She also has been found on other blog sites making racist comments about white people, when she in fact herself is married to someone who is Russian. So who's geneology, stories, community recognition and etc,etc, don't add up, it's Keely's , not mine or anyone elses.
 
So everyone who supports Keely and Keely herself need to get their facts straight because none of you do!


Oneh


Niiki from Tyendinaga Mohawk Territory


Offline Niiki

  • Posts: 216
Re: Walter Renz
« Reply #35 on: July 20, 2009, 01:47:44 am »
December 13, 2004
http://genforum.genealogy.com/charley/messages/63.html
(Loyal Shawnee of Oklahoma, can be Enrolled Cherokee just like the Delaware)
Haskell University pics.
http://kiowakat.com/katspowwowhub.html

Keely lives in Selina, Kansas.
Posted by: Keely Denning (ID *****5275)
2002:
Hello,
I am not a Draper, I am not a Ingles, I am a Shawnee Indian woman who has been raised with the traditional stories of our people.
In May, 1959, my grandfather was speaking of our family, he was dying, my aunt handed my mother pen and paper to have her write down what he was saying. He told the story of Drapers Meadow, said it happened so long ago, no one really remembers when, that a white female infant was taken into our family, he mentioned the names of Sopronia, Nancy, and Oua-Qua-Tha but we do not know if he is speaking of that child. When children were born into our family, who were of lighter skin, he said they were a "thowback" to the white of long ago.
I do not know if DNA can be done due to the fact that the child was female, and my grandfather is obviously male. The X cromozone to the Y cromozone in the testing is complicated to understand.
I am not here to say I am of the Ingles child, I am here to say I am glad to see there are many descendants. And to share my family story with those who are interested.
http://genforum.genealogy.com/ingles/messages/271.html
 
William R HOUSEL
BIRTH: ABT 1862, , , Missouri
Father: John MATLOCK
Mother: Anna A GOOCH

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                 __
 _John MATLOCK _|
|               |__
|
|--William R HOUSEL
|
|                __
|_Anna A GOOCH _|
                |__

John MATLOCK
Family 1: Anna A GOOCH

 William R HOUSEL
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    __
 __|
|  |__
|
|--John MATLOCK
|
|   __
|__|
   |__

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
INDEX
Notes
! Copyright FamilyHart 2009 - .NAME: KEELY, kdenning(AT)cox.net
Anna A GOOCH
BIRTH: 1 AUG 1843, Shelbyville, Shelby, Missouri
DEATH: 1 FEB 1932, Oklahoma City, Oklahoma, Oklahoma
Family 1: John MATLOCK

 William R HOUSEL
Family 2: James Monroe HOUSEL
MARRIAGE: 1 FEB 1866, Shelbyville, Shelby, Missouri

 Blanche HOUSEL
+Barron C. HOUSEL
 Mabel HOUSEL
 Charles HOUSEL
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    __
 __|
|  |__
|
|--Anna A GOOCH
|
|   __
|__|
   |__
Barron C. HOUSEL
BIRTH: 12 JAN 1877, Coffeyville, Montgomery, Kansas
DEATH: 5 AUG 1950, Oklahoma City, Oklahoma, Oklahoma
Father: James Monroe HOUSEL
Mother: Anna A GOOCH
Family 1: Ouida L. PAYNE
MARRIAGE: 14 FEB 1900, Coffeyville, Montgomery, Kansas

 Lorraine V HOUSEL
 Eloise HOUSEL
+Barron C. HOUSEL
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                        _John Miller HOUSEL _
 _James Monroe HOUSEL _|
|                      |_Rachael VASTINE ____
|
|--Barron C. HOUSEL
|
|                       _____________________
|_Anna A GOOCH ________|
                       |_____________________
(lines continue for these PA DUTCH Surnames. Is Keely Squirrel Denning PA DUTCH also????)
 

Offline Niiki

  • Posts: 216
Re: Walter Renz
« Reply #36 on: July 20, 2009, 01:49:26 am »
DENNING:
James Denning contacted Keely for genealogy with European connections/DNA:Aug 6 2004
http://genforum.genealogy.com/milner/messages/939.html
sorry to post here but it didnt give email address
so you might be interested in this
I have started a dna connection project for this diverse name. Hopefully to
prove conections left assunder by some mispronounciation or other error.
lets see if England , Ireland, Scotland ,Wales,France,Scandanavia,and Germany
can be conected together. Along with those nations to America, Africa,
Australia , Asia and the smaller places like New Zealand
Dannen Denehy Dening
Denn Dennen Denney
Dennie Dennig Denning
Denninge Denninger Denune
Dineen Dinihey Dinnan
Dinnin Dinning Dinon
Dunn Dunnigan Dennis
http://www.familytreedna.com/public/Denning&variants
JimDENNING
NO REPLY BY KEELY

keely is apparently or was married to a white Russian?
Denning:
Elizabeth Anver Denning
Born 1814 in Russia, died October 27, 1877 in America.
This is part of her story...
Emigration from Russia to America.
All had to have passports and all debts had to be paid. We had to give 10% of our property value to the government, plus 18 rubles (about 1.00) per person.
All the property that could not be taken with us had to be rid of, we carried bundles of clothes we needed for the trip.
We took along pumpernickle break, cheese, cold cured salted meat and onion to eat.
Babies were not a problem to feed.
In June 1876 108 families left the town of Herzog, Russia by horses and wagons for Kosaken 40 miles away then we took a boat on the Volga River to Saratow. We were joined there by other Volga on their way to Amerika. Total 1,454 persons.
We went by train July 8, 1876 and entered Poland at Witebek. To enter each adult had to have 150 rubles on hand, this is about 8.33 if some were short they took temporary loans from friends.
We traveled on to Bremen, Germany. We had a three day lay over, a welcomed rest.
When passengers were transfered to a three story hotel their baggage was delivered in carts drawn by dogs. Next morning mass was at a near by Catholic Church, a baby was born in Breman and some children had took their first communion.
A man came from ship to give good news, price of fair 38 rubles per head also included all expenses on ship. Next day was filled with fear and apprehenshion, as the immigrants prepared to leave for Bremenhafen, Germany.
The mighty ship in harbor did not frighten us as much as the vast ocean... Some trembled and grew pale, others burst into tears the women screamed children cried and some were unable to move but they could not turn back now. The men took them in their arms and forced them to walk the gang plank.
Weather was calm until ship crossed the English Channel. Some were sick when a storm passed, most were able to sleep. Frieght was loaded in England and ship began trip across wide ocean..
We had several days of calm and spent much time on deck.
The women did chores mostly washing and drying clothes which was a problem with no clothes line so they would pin baby diapers to their full skirts and walk around until dry that took most of the day. Others danced and played cards while others beathed fresh salt air which was refreshing compared to unpleasant odors below deck.
Bad weather stuck again lasting five days, followed by calm clear weather. The ship arrived at Castle Gardens New York after 14 1/2 days at sea.
Dr.'s came aboard to check passengers health. Baggage and tickets were checked for last time.
The leader of group made deal ith the Rail Road to transport all passengers and baggage to Victoria, Kansas for 16 rubles per person. By time all was on train it was evening, then started for St. Louis, Mo. where they crossed the Mississippi River. From there went to Victoria arrived August 3, 1876.
Friends and family who came in 1875 met us at station.
We walked to Herzog about 1/2 mile north of train station.


Offline Niiki

  • Posts: 216
Re: Walter Renz
« Reply #37 on: July 20, 2009, 01:50:30 am »
May 04, 2001  by Keely

Other posts by Keely:
If anyone has the date of death on a Peter Baysinger, who was reported to have been hung in Olathe, Kansas on a charge of stealing horses, please e-mail me.
This person would be the son of Peter Baysinger and Elizabeth Rice.
 
Reply:
Peter Washington Baysinger born nov. 13,1838 died may 13 1866 buried Prairie city cemetery which is just outside of Baldwin kansas to the southwest. grave has a civil war marker. According to newspaper accounts hanged as a horse thief.
 
 
Keely is an Elder poster at Indianz.com/2118 posts 6/25/09
You wanna threaten me when your selling fraudulant items on ebay? Wanna threaten my ebay ID.. what a laugh you wannabe idiot! I have already reported you for violations of the Indian Arts and Crafts Act you moron...
Everyone knows Jerry Pope is a fraud. His family came from Germany and there is documented PROOF of this FACT... there is NO Indian blood in his veins... He is also known to molest kids, he harbors a known child molestor on the "reserve" or are you that molestor?
I think you should know that I have more than on eBay ID, and have access to other ID's which belong to my family members... so just what are you gonna do? LOL Get my ID removed? And that hurts me how?
All my ID's are 100% positive feedback [evil grin smiley]
You bring your homey whiteass here to Kansas, you aint the first punkass who has threatend me and lost the battle, bring it on punk.
« Last Edit: July 23, 2009, 02:50:27 pm by Pat »

Offline Niiki

  • Posts: 216
Re: Walter Renz
« Reply #38 on: July 20, 2009, 01:52:29 am »
of http://www.legalspring.com/articles/alt-lawyers/20040119/directory-20040119.html
posts on legalizing medical marijuana/canada
AKA Tiny Tot Dancer:
of http://www.powwows.com/gathering/145207-post7.html
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Kansas
Posts: 31
Credits: 292.20
BORN and RAISED in Wichita, KANSAS, NOT OKLAHOMA!!!!!!
Actually yes I do live near Wichita, I am in Salina that is a hour and a half north of Wichita... I was born and raised in Wichita
I am getting ready to start a small project, a pocket knife for my father in law and it would be perfect to show anyone! The best bead supplier lives in Wichita too. He sells beads and such from his home.
You can e-mail me at kdenning@cox.net
I have some pictures of the cane but they are too big to post so I will post as soon as I get the jpg smaller.
I have been brick stitching for ten years so it comes very easy for me, and the stitch I prefer to use. I have come up with all kinds of short cuts.
When I began my cane I covered it in skin first, this cane will be beaded all the way, even the handle. I dont think going inside the curve of the handle will be all that difficult because my needles always get a curve to them! LOL and my doctor told me if I needed one of his skinny little curved skin stitching needles he would be happy to give me one.
Many people have asked me why I decided on this project, and the answer is pretty simple... in 1999 my son had a brain tumor removed, he was 18 years old and had to learn how to walk again, when he used his cane, people stared at him, this upset him, so I decided that if people wanted to stare, I would give them something to stare at. My son no longer needs a cane, but I am not going to leave it unfinished.
The cane I got I paid 3.00 for it at a second hand store, it is all wooden. The new prices on canes are just too high! Or the cane is metal adjustable, that just wouldnt work.
(keely is a crafter and also draws on Indianz.com link)

Offline Niiki

  • Posts: 216
Re: Walter Renz
« Reply #39 on: July 20, 2009, 01:53:41 am »
More genealogy posts found:
http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/IL-CIVIL-WAR/2005-03/1111783013
From: "Keely" <kdenning@cox.net>
Subject: Re: [IL-CIVIL-WAR] Last Civil War Veteran
Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2005 14:36:53 -0600
References: <20050325193517.6538.qmail@web51501.mail.yahoo.com>

I am not sure what you are looking for, but here in Kansas we have two
Illinois men buried here,
Capt. William Wallace Bartlett of the Illinois 100th born 12-21-1820 died in
Saline County Kansas 4-26-1893
his brother whom I do not remember who he served with in Illinois:
Lt. Ransom F. Bartlett no birth date death Decemeber 1904
Both buried at Gypsum Hill Cemetery, Saline County, town of Salina, Kansas
I am seeking a photograph of Capt. Bartlett
(Captain Bartlett of the PA DUTCH?????)
(Also posts on MO-L Rootsweb Missouri genealogy)
(keely, bravesheart, nalaw other akas? posts deleted at legal forums?)
Lots of Legal Forums:
eg:
????
Keely wrote: > > What is wrong with our system? (much more at link where other posters were
frustrated with her?) 
She blasts a Mark Renfro as a wannabee Cherokee also:
http://www.legalspring.com/articles/alt-lawyers/20040118/64011_US-CA--Web--New-Fede.html
And supports medical marijuana use:
but honestly, I
do support medical use of marijuana... in the state of Kansas, just
marijuana residue will get you arrested for possession, get arrested twice
for it, and it is a felony.... which means our courts are back logged, and
tax payers dollars are being spent to house prisoners for simple residue...
but the laws are not targeting people by race, religion, or anything else...
it is targeting those who use or sell drugs.. no discrimination there at
all.
same link

kdenning@sympatico.ca May NOT be the same person:
http://www.rscm.u-net.com/publ.pdf
Grace Under Press (GPU:some sort of publishing?)
 
 

Indianz.com forums:
To all the regulars here... I am sorry for bringing a eBay issue here, however, this ID 9062angel is selling items on eBay as Indian made... made by the "great" (urp) chief hawk pope... and his wannabe group "united remenant shawnee" of which had to disband once since the US Federal Government has already informed them they are not a Indian tribe and cannot sell items as Indian made... Now this group is asking for donations from people... selling crap on eBay to people who dont know any better...
Jerry Pope knows who I am, and never has had the courage to deal with me directly... His dad has died and Harry's SS information is now all public... of course Jerry never talked about his dad Harry, he spoke of his grandfather Reva Pope who was supposed to be Shawnee Indian, and that the Pope name is a Shawnee name, none of which is true... I have a copy of Reva's death records, and his family has been traced back to Germany where they got on a ship in Berlin to come to America.. Jerry knows these are true facts and so he avoids me all the way..
Some day, I will have a webpage with all this information made public... Jerry knows he is a fraud and he is now begging for donations...

Offline Niiki

  • Posts: 216
Re: Walter Renz
« Reply #40 on: July 20, 2009, 01:55:27 am »
If I live for 100 Years, I will never understand white people. If I live for 1000 years, white people will never understand me.

Keely,
This the same Pope whose sister is known as the "Shawnee Clan Mother" of the Remnant Band? One, Dark Rain Thom?
Johnnie
That would be the one and same... each as much as a fraud as the other... But the two had a falling out, and now are dishing out dirt on the other and saying the other is a wannabe.. Imagine that, two wannabes calling the other a wannabe...
keely
Ummmmmm... wasn't she part of the Indiana Indian commission that you worked with... ???
Just wondering why you keep slamming this "wannabe" woman when you once worked alongside of her and the ilks of Arthur Sonier... aka Arthur Medicine Eagle...
Just sayin...
jana
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Stupid is as stupid does" <---- Put here for KiowaKat... ;-)
 
Jana,
I never worked with her. And I had no choice as to who was on the Commission. Anyone who criticizes you is "humping your leg" but whenever you stick your long nose into anything it is to criticize.
There are things going on here to make sure another wannabee does not get on the Commission, but I don't blare it out. In spite of what you think, there are bigger things in the world than your point of view, starting with the musical sound of an ant's fart.
Johnnie
Edited to add: BTW, shows you how much you think you know. Sonier was never on the Commission. He was your pal remember?
of http://64.38.12.138/boardx/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=37602

http://members.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewUserPage&userid=9062angel
Shawnee URB arts/crafts for sale.
Angel (Eagle?) NOT Renz
 

PARKER, Robert Wed Oct 30, 2002
I am a volunteer researcher for the Saline County Kansas Sheriff's Department, I research former Sheriff's trying to locate former photographs of them. One of our former Sheriff's is Robert Parker, he served as Sheriff in Saline County in 1863-1864, he left Saline County after 1865 and went to Jackson County for a short time, from there he went to Chautauqua County and died in Sedan. I have gotten his obituary, learned his daughter married a Dyer, I do not know what happened to his son, John. One other child of his had died in Saline County and is buried here. I would appreciate corresponding with anyone researching this line, or anyone who might know of a photograph of Robert Parker.
Contact Keely Denning - kdenning@cox.net

COONS:
Some went to California...
Here is a address to McPherson County Kansas, please check the marrige records that are online for COONS and the teacher certificates..
I am trying to locate any decendants of these Coons that were in McPherson County Kansas!
http://www.rootsweb.com/~ksmcrla/
I can do better than a copy and paste
Posted by: Keely Date: May 04, 2001 at 15:44:56
In Reply to: Re: Oh I forgot to include by slave weddings chelsea ma pre 1840
I can actually write my message twice.
Jim, you have a guilty mind your talking to? You seem to be the only one who believes only your family counts, or that you are the only one who knows something... but your not.
I am not a Denning... I married a Denning, it does not make me Volga German... I am Indian.. American Indian... and my husband being married to me does not make him a Indian...
We have a full understanding and full respect for each others people of which we come from.
He enjoys learning my culture, and I enjoy learning about his culture.
We share families... we are part of each others families...
Is there any part of this of which you dont understand? Should I type slower for you??
I come to help other people with what Denning knowledge I do have... and it is a shame you have made some feel totally unwelcomed by your flipant responses to people... No doubt you have helped some... those people are the ones with Dennings in your line... but you dont know squat about Dennings from Russia.
+Jim,
Since you seem to "know" so much about Volgas (haha) tell me, where is the ocean or even a large river close to the villiage of Herzog of which to float one of these ships built for the Russian Navy?? I wont run the Jeopardy theme song or anything like that...
Yes... little me, of course I know nothing to your high "knowledge" of the Dennings from Russia... not me.. none at all.. not even when I had long conversations with Martin Moeder, a Volga who is my husbands grandfather, who came over to Amerika, he never did perfect the English language.. God rest his farming soul... he was not a ship builder either.. but then, he was not a Denning...
I dont understand why you want to put Volgas down and insult them all the time... are you part of some kind of race hate group?

"dennings from reusssia are either
shipbuilders from western europe or czar peter made people adopt western names
jim"
Wrong, they were farmers! Plus many Volga Germans brought over to America the winter wheat of which most of your store bought bread is made from... it is a hardier wheat of which can with stand harsher winters.. I believe Americans call it a Red Turkey Wheat.
Thank you for knowing so much about Dennings from Russia!
 
Jim
I guess I am confussed to your message.
My husbands family in Russia were Denning... before they went to Russia they were Denning. There are different ways of spelling Denning, I can assure you the Czar did not make them take a "western" name. Besides, it was not the Czar in power when my husbands family went into Russia, it was Katherine the Great.
 
Hello,
My husbands family came to America from Herzog, Russia. This family went from Germany into Russia then from Russia into America by way of Germany... It might be this family began in France...
My father in law just began his family research, but what caught the eye to your post is the use of the name Andreas, as the family has Andreas born March 26, 1885 but I do not have a date of death for him or location...
He also has Frank Denning, born 1873 abd a Frank born Aug. 15, 1949 The first Frank would have been born in Russia, as the family had not come to America yet, and I do not know if this Frank came over.
Some of my husbands family stayed behind, my father in law has just began his research and is seeking information on a Michael who remained either in Russia or Germany.
You can e-mail me at keely@tri.net
My father in law in not online yet...
Keely

The problem with getting together is that I do not think that my husbands family from Russia has a link to a Denning family from England.
I do, in general contact people in private on the Dennings from Russia or those who have names that might be of my husbands family. I contact in private because there is a person who views this board (they know who they are) whom is taking information posted, not documenting anything, and putting it in their book..
Heck.. this person does not have correct information on me, but it is in their book.. plus, the person has no right to use my name, the names of my children or try to copyright such.
Becareful of what is posted here... someone thinks they have a right to it...
It is sad that we cannot openly give information out... that one bad apple has spoiled if for the family.

I am researching a Hendrick D. Baker who was born in Kentucky to Dr. John Baker and Nancy. The Doctor was a supporter of the Union, he was assinated as he stood in the doorway of his home. No action was taken to find his killer. His sons, Hendrick and John joined the Union. After the war, Hendrick removed his family to Kansas where he felt his family would be safer.
His mother Nancy died in 1877, she is burried here in Salina, Betty, Hendricks sister died in 1879. She is burried near her mother. Hendrick died in 1897 in Guthrie, Oklahoma, and his wife died 10 days later and they are burried together with the family.
In 1880 census I have Hendrick living in Salina with his wife Laura (aka Fannie) daughter May, sons Claud and Harry. May dies in 1887, and was the only daughter of Hendrick. A son Clifford died in 1884. He must have been a baby because he is not on the 1880 census.
Hendricks brother, John, I have not located.
I am researching this family looking for descendants. Hendrick was a Sheriff of Saline County Kansas in 1879, and again in 1880 to 1881. Our Sheriff is trying to locate photos of all our former Sheriffs and I have been doing the research in order to try to accomplish this.
 
Dec. 13, 2004 genforum.genealogy.com post Re: CHARLEY'S OF OKLAHOMA
Would like to know more of your Charley's, I am the great grandaughter of Sam Charley
and Betsy Panther Charley. I believe Sam to be the son of Delaware Charley, their
daughter Eli married Isaac Squirrel who was Shawnee. kdenning@cox.net
http://genforum.genealogy.com/ingles/messages/337.html
Draper Revisited Post Aug. 23 2005 by keely
I posted here some time ago, and though people have replied, and I have gotten some emails, I have been busy with issues that concern my tribe... recently, one of those issues became intangled with the Drapers Meadows and Mary Ingles.
The Shawnee people have been misrepresented so many times, by so many authors, worse, is the pretend Indian who claims some descendancy just so they can make a profit. I can only wonder if this happens with the Ingles family as well.
I come to the true descendants of the Ingles family with my heart, and am I willing to do DNA testing to see if it is possible that the white female child that has been spoken of in my family could be that of the Ingles? Yes I am, though we can only get results if the line is continious through the surnames of my lineage... we do not know...
A recent issue has been James Thom, author of "Follow the River" a book that is supposed to be based on Mary Ingles story... I have read the book, and I was offended...
Many bad things happened, this is true, but Thom, in my opinion, goes too far, not only does his book refer to the Shawnee women as "squaws" but Mary Ingles is refered to as a "white squaw" Now many people do not know what these words actually mean, through the years and movies made about Indians, most people think that the term "squaw" means "woman"... but it does not... it means something else, something that I cannot write in English on any public board, but I assure you, it is so highly offensive that that most would be horrified to know that your ancestor has been called such a name.
Thom claims he researched this before he wrote it, and I could only wonder how is it that he can make so much money off the backs of both our ancestors? Has Thom offered anything towards the memory of Mary Ingles or that of her children? He just took her story and made a lot of money from the suffering?
Recently a town in Indiana decided this is a book that the town should read, and the town should have a book discussion on it... This history does not belong to Indiana, and Indian people of many tribes are offended by Thoms writing... we are not offended of Mary Ingles story.. I come to close this circle and make it complete, and Thom sets his sites on ripping old wounds open...
Is it possible that the true descendants of the Ingles and that of the Shawnee could write a more accurate book? Let our voices be heard instead of this person who has no connection with either side and has no other interest than to line his own pockets?
Thoms wife, Mari, goes by the name of Dark Rain, she has been associated with a group of frauds in Ohio, she claims to be Shawnee Indian... but she is not.
I want to tell the story of my grandfather, and from the perspective of the Shawnee, I want the story of Mary Ingles to be known, and I think it would be best if we worked together, and not offensive to anyone...
If you are interested, please email me at kdenning@cox.net if you would like to talk to me, I would be happy to provide my home number in a email.

Posts on genforum.genealogy.com/

My name is Keely Denning, I am the great grandaughter of Anne Longtail, sister to Abraham Longtail, and you still dont have their parents correct.. there never was a Wallen in our family... I can document what I say with federal records...
My name is Keely Denning, I am a enrolled member of the Cherokee Nation of Oklahoma, I am Shawnee, my family is from the Black Bob Band, my great grandmother was a Longtail.
My name is Keely Denning, I live in Kansas, I am Shawnee, I am enrolled in a federally recognized nation, that is the Cherokee Nation of Oklahoma, this is because the Shawnee tribe I am from was once a part of the Cherokee Nation and therefore my enrollment is with them.
Renz, is using my grandmothers maiden name of Longtail..
My dad was a full blood Shawnee, his name was Lemuel Charley Squirrel, my mother was Chippewa, I was raised as Shawnee.
http://genforum.genealogy.com/wallen/messages/1067.html

Offline Keely

  • Posts: 103
Re: Walter Renz
« Reply #41 on: July 20, 2009, 02:11:57 am »
Nikki,

I am glad you are so interested that you wish to google me all over the place  ;)

Though I do not have to defend myself to you, I will tell you that you are quite funny. I wish you would have gotten to know me a bit better before you went on this rampage.

I am a historical researcher, I research for our Sheriff Department, so you will come across many postings I have made online in my research I also have worked on a Jane Doe homicide case, so you will come across many things online about my work on that case, you might even be able to find television interviews of which I have done, but let me assure you, those television interviews have never been about me, they are about a woman who was beaten, thrown off a bridge, and drowned in frigged weather. It is a very sad case and our victim deserves for someone to dedicate themselves to finding out who she is.

So far, the postings you have come accross is the surname of Matlock, of whom is family to a friend of mine and I was helping him with this genealogy research. That friend of mine is currently the Under Sheriff of a county not far from where I live. He is my friend, not my cousin, I am not related to the Matlocks.

You found research from the Denning surname. I am married to a man who is full blood Volga German, but I have no Volga blood in me at all. I helped his father with his family research. It is humorous to see you copy a post of a historical statement made by one of my husbands ancestors about their trip across the ocean and assume it is my family and not that of my husbands.

Well Nikki, do you feel kinda silly now?

Of course if you knew anything about my tribe you would find out that being enrolled in the Cherokee Nation is not uncommon, as I stated earlier I am enrolled CNO, I also stated the my tribe was adopted by the Cherokee Nation... please read what I wrote and not what you think I wrote.

I did not say that Walter was selling items on eBay, but thanks for the information of someone else selling it  ;D There is a person who is selling her items online as Indian made who is a part of this "morning star" group that Walter made up. But I cannot discuss the action being taken.

As for Jerry Pope and his fraudulant group, the US government has already gotten after them on more than one occassion for selling items as Indian made, and yes, they are doing it again on eBay, and yes, they too are having action taken against them and no I will not discuss what I know about the action being taken...

But let me clear something up for you Nikki, my husband is not a Little Charley, my husband is not related to my family, you took a post off the Charley surname board and tried to make it look like I wrote the first post, yet I had responded to the second post with my great grandfather Sam Charley, his wife Betsy Panther Charley... At the time we thought that Delaware Charley was Sam's dad, I have since learned this is not so... but I also learned some of the family was known as Little Charley, thus I am related to the lady's husband who posted about the Little Charley family..

Do you always try to twist things?

Why are you so upset Nikki? Why are you tring to make a mountian out of nothing at all?






Offline Keely

  • Posts: 103
Re: Walter Renz
« Reply #42 on: July 20, 2009, 02:38:39 am »
of http://www.legalspring.com/articles/alt-lawyers/20040119/directory-20040119.html
posts on legalizing medical marijuana/canada
AKA Tiny Tot Dancer:
of http://www.powwows.com/gathering/145207-post7.html
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Kansas
Posts: 31
Credits: 292.20
BORN and RAISED in Wichita, KANSAS, NOT OKLAHOMA!!!!!!
Actually yes I do live near Wichita, I am in Salina that is a hour and a half north of Wichita... I was born and raised in Wichita
I am getting ready to start a small project, a pocket knife for my father in law and it would be perfect to show anyone! The best bead supplier lives in Wichita too. He sells beads and such from his home.
You can e-mail me at kdenning@cox.net
I have some pictures of the cane but they are too big to post so I will post as soon as I get the jpg smaller.
I have been brick stitching for ten years so it comes very easy for me, and the stitch I prefer to use. I have come up with all kinds of short cuts.
When I began my cane I covered it in skin first, this cane will be beaded all the way, even the handle. I dont think going inside the curve of the handle will be all that difficult because my needles always get a curve to them! LOL and my doctor told me if I needed one of his skinny little curved skin stitching needles he would be happy to give me one.
Many people have asked me why I decided on this project, and the answer is pretty simple... in 1999 my son had a brain tumor removed, he was 18 years old and had to learn how to walk again, when he used his cane, people stared at him, this upset him, so I decided that if people wanted to stare, I would give them something to stare at. My son no longer needs a cane, but I am not going to leave it unfinished.
The cane I got I paid 3.00 for it at a second hand store, it is all wooden. The new prices on canes are just too high! Or the cane is metal adjustable, that just wouldnt work.
(keely is a crafter and also draws on Indianz.com link)


Yes Nikki, I do beadwork and I draw, and I can sell it as Indian made  :D Yes I was born and raised in Wichita, Kansas, but I was with my tradtional people.. I lived in many states while growing up, Alabama, Arkansas, Colorado, Texas, and even Oklahoma... But I have never been to New York... dont have a interest in visiting there either.. My husband would like to take me to Chicago... I would rather stay home and spend time with my grandbabies  :)

Yes, in 1999 my son had a brain tumor, he was a Who's Who student, wanted to go into the medical field, my little brother is a medical doctor... but his brain tumor cut his dream. So do you want to make fun of him? Use him as a point for what? What point are you trying to make by using my son? Oh, I know, shoot.. you want to use him because I support medical marijuana... But Nikki, in reality, I support legalizing marijuana all together.. the states could make money off the taxes, I also support legalized prostitution.. that is another taxable profession of which our states could use.. I think it is a double edge sword when a woman can go out, and have sex with as many men as possible and it is not illegal, but becomes illegal the moment she gets money for it...

Marijuana is a old, traditional medicine that Indian people used... our prisons are full of people who's crime was smoking a little pot... there are child molesters and killers who get less time in prison than a person who was caught smoking a little pot twice... two times it becomes a felony where I live... But then, thats a different topic for a different message board...

Now, are you done spamming the board with these posts?

Calm down Nikki, you seem out of control with anger towards me... there is no need for it... I can do you no harm, nor can you harm me. It is only the Internet.


Offline Keely

  • Posts: 103
Re: Walter Renz
« Reply #43 on: July 20, 2009, 04:06:42 am »
Keely says she is Shawnee all her life but this this is what she says in 2002:

Keely Squirrel-Denning:
Enrolled Cherokee 

....And she was looking around for her ancestors in 2004, when she claims she knows who she was all of her life


This is partly what I feared, possibly degenerating into "You're not NDN enough" accusations based on flimsy pretexts or misunderstanding data.
It's not unusual for people to try to look and see what else they can find out about their ancestors, Nikki. I've known several fairly well known NDN historians, who were also enrolled and extremely well known in their communities, who've done that.

Technically this should be yet another thread on Keely, but I don't see how to disentangle them.

I see your point about fraudulent crafts, Keely.


Thank you Al.

I do research my family, all my life I have known who my grandparents and great grandparents were on the Charley side, but have wondered what/who was their parents... as anyone who has researched Indian history or genealogy, it is not easy... finding credible records on individuals can be a hard task specially and Oklahoma did not start having census records until 1900. Though census was done in 1890, a fire destroyed some, the government tried to destroy the rest, very few 1890 records survived. I was sent a record on Sam Charley when he gave testimony about his parents but he did not say their names, he said what tribe they were from and that his mother was a sister to Jack Girty.. What makes it really hard in my research is that my gr grandmother was in her 50's when she gave birth to my grandmother, my grandmother was in her 40's when she gave birth to my dad.. But research is also fun, I learned that my great grandfather Sam Charley, during the 1840's was part of the Indian Texas Rangers... as was my great Uncles, Cha-Yer-Ya and Looking At Us.

I hope people would get more into researching their family, no matter if they are white, black, Indian, or yellow, there are so many hidden things that at times, help explain the person we are or how much like our ancestors we are.


Offline Niiki

  • Posts: 216
Re: Walter Renz
« Reply #44 on: July 20, 2009, 04:08:01 am »

Yes Nikki, I do beadwork and I draw, and I can sell it as Indian made  :D Yes I was born and raised in Wichita, Kansas, but I was with my tradtional people.. I lived in many states while growing up, Alabama, Arkansas, Colorado, Texas, and even Oklahoma... But I have never been to New York... dont have a interest in visiting there either.. My husband would like to take me to Chicago... I would rather stay home and spend time with my grandbabies  :)


Stereotype of the Month Entry
(8/18/00)
of http://www.bluecorncomics.com/stype087.htm
Keely Denning, NY volunteer for nativeweb.org/
NativeWeb founding board member www.nativeweb.org/info/paper.php
In February of 1999, NativeWeb formally incorporated itself as a non-profit corporation
in the State of New York under the name NativeWeb, Inc. It established a formal board of
directors with 10 board members (Marc Becker, Shane Caraveo, David Cole,
Keely Squirrel Denning,
Peter d'Errico, Alan Mandell, Pat Paul, Tara Prindle, Karen Strom, and Carmel Vivier).
The group now included a software programmer; a computer network specialist who was a
member of a Native American tribal council; a lawyer who was a tribal judge; an
independent legislative analyst focusing on native-related issues; a law office
manager and freelance writer who works with native communities in Canada;
a novelist writing stories on native issues; and two university professors:
one a lawyer involved with Indigenous peoples' legal issues and the other a
historian focusing on Indigenous issues in Latin America. NativeWeb has always been a
labor of love, rooted in a volunteer workforce.
Posted at 8:36pm on Wed, Sep 10 2008
http://www.nativeweb.org/info/paper.php
(Was in NY in 1999; NOT in Oklahoma all her life with her "tribe"!)