General > Frauds
Walter Renz
Keely:
--- Quote from: Niiki on July 18, 2009, 10:54:22 am ---
--- Quote from: Keely on July 17, 2009, 10:39:07 pm ---Nikki,
If you think for one second that I am any part of any confederacy, and have no voice of my own, then you need to seek professional help... If you think I answer to any confederacy then you need to seek professional help, if you think that any confederacy has any say over what I do, what I think, or how I do it, then you need to seek professional help. The only persons I answer to is my tribal Elders, and they are NOT Seneca nor are they part of the confederacy. So get over yourself, this confederacy you belong to has no control over me, or my people... they are not god.
Now, for this "
--- End quote ---
Keely, it's apparent that the person who needs to seek professional help is you , who carries on these hateful rants. You have gone off the deep end. And no I have not fallen out of tree, it's called consultation and hearing what others have to have say about this subject within the Six Nations Confederacy who have met Walter and are supporting him. And call our Confederacy down like this, will only get you into a lot trouble as your emails have been forwarded onto those who will take action to put a stop to this. As I suggested and you seem not to take suggestions too well, take this up with Renz directly and not on the internet. As it is now appearing that you are trying to push a land claim in an area that the Shawnee have no territorial or legitimate rights of claim to. If you knew anything about the teachings of Grandmother Moon, you would know that no one can own the land. Therefore all of these land claims are wrong, that nations outside of the Six Nations Confederacy do not have a say, and that the Six Nations Confederacy does have legitimate say and leadership over, you do fall within that jurisdiction, and therefore, don't have a say over any matters or goings on within the area of jurisdiction of the Six Nations Confederacy. The more you post here, the more rope you will be giving yourself with us.
Oneh
Niiki from Tyendinaga Mohawk Territory
From: renzsilver@hotmail.com
To: kdenning@cox.net
Subject: RE: My decent of Blood
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2009 18:38:25 -0400
Keely,
I never said that they offered me a card. I said I told them not to give me one.
Andrew and Darrel are wonderful people. And I am not using there name in a bad way at all. And Your on a path that has caused troubles for the Shawnee since 1800's. The Longtail land is under the Absentee Shawnee Tribe control.
I am not out to make fame or money from my ancestory.
And I did not say your family was Wallen. That was the name that was used here to hide the family. There is an article in the Toledo Blade. That a reporter came to the Wallen Cabin knowing that William was a Shawnee Chief. They would not open the door to speak with the reporter.
Your a researcher. Lets see if you can find that.
I have spent most of my life to benefit others. Not to harm people.
I wish you well. And take care.
Walter
--- End quote ---
You dont get it do you Nikki. I am not of the six confederated nations, they have no say over me, my family or my tribe. Elders of my tribe has been following this issue and think it is quite funny that you feel the six nations has some kind of power over all that is... and they dont. So if you want the six nations to come and get me, tell them to bring it on! We are waiting.... and waiting... and waiting....
Now you made a choice to post all this stuff on the Wallen family, as you copied and pasted someone elses research and did not post a link nor give the author credit, and make no doubt that I do believe Walter is from the Wallens, his mother's maiden name is Wallen, and with Walters supposed research, his mom is a full blood...
Now lets argue Walter, and his claims, not someone elses genealogy work, this issue is about Walter.
Here is the link to Walter's claims:
http://genforum.genealogy.com/cgi-bin/print.cgi?wallen::983.html
Here is what that site reads:
Posted By: WALTER RENZ
Email:
Subject: Re: Arkansas and Ohio Wallens
Post Date: February 17, 2008 at 22:25:44
Message URL: http://genforum.genealogy.com/wallen/messages/983.html
Forum: Wallen Family Genealogy Forum
Forum URL: http://genforum.genealogy.com/wallen/
William Henry Wallen /Abraham Longtail Born 1844 died 1912 from falling out of hay mouh on to pile of bricks. Packed with sand bags died from complications.
1st wife Sarah Baker
childern
Luther Wallen
Elizabeth Wallen
2nd Wife Elizabeth Edwards/Eliza Tignor Both are barried in Belmore,Ohio east Grave yard.
Sarah J. Wallen Shawnee full blood born 6/7/1870-died 6/13/1913 married to a Richard Johnson
Mary Edith Wallen Shawnee full blood born 7/31/1871 married 11-22-1887 Charles Frayer
Martha J. Wallen Shawnee full blood born 8/1/1872 died 7/24/1901 married to Hampton Hurd 2nd husband Thomas Johnson
Cora Dell Wallen Shawnee full blood born 2/19/1873 died 9/31/1904 married 7-26-1893 Frank Baker
Charles Chester Wallen Shawnee full blood born 2/19/1873-died 4/24/1873 twin to Cora Dell Wallen
Thomas Franklin Wallen Shawnee full blood born 4/22/1874-died 4/4/1898 teacher and writer life farming
Melinda Wallen Shawnee full blood born 6/6/1875-died 3/22/1936 married to Burdine D. Fisher
William Silas Wallen (AKA William Henry) Will Longtail Shawnee full blood born 1/15/1876 married to Pearl Stafforf 4/26/1902 spent time publishing the books of those that wrote them.
John Walter Wallen (Henry Longtail) Shawnee full blood Chief born 10/23/1877 died 1/2/1920 Married to Nina Pearl Foster(AOHMX-She is wise) Sarah Biggs on 12/14/1898c teacher, doctor, and hay and grain sales
Children
Isaac Leland Wallen (Isaac Longtail) Shawnee full blood Chief born 11/7/1903 died 9/15/1980 married to a Lovie May (Mae) Mapes (LOVE OF MAY) Shawnee full blood born 5/10/1903 died 56/1987
Children
Eldo Dwight Wallen /Fox Longtail Shawnee full blood Sub Chief born 12/7/1925 died 7/19/2007
Lawrence Leland Wallen /Sparrow Longtail Shawnee full blood born 3/29/1930 died 6/28/2007
Virginia Carol Wallen /Mother Buffalo Longtail Shawnee full blood born 7/19/1940 married to Arnold Renz in 10/7/1956
Now, lets look at the first person, Abraham Longtail aka Jake, Walter claims that he was born 1844 and died in 1912 after falling onto a pile of bricks...
Now turn your attention to Abrahams son, Henry, he claims Henry born 1877 died 1920.... and while we are doing this, remember that Walter claims this family left the Shawnee tribe, to start their "own tribe" called the Morning Star Shawnee. What facts has Walter produced for these claims? None... not one claim is documented.
Other researchers have documented this exact Wallen line, with one exception, they do not make the claim that this family is Indian, the reality of the situation is that this Wallen line is exact, except for the claims that they are the Longtail family....
Now I produce to you several links, of which you can go to, that are documentations of the Abraham Longtail family, the REAL family.
From the University of Oklahoma, Henry Longtail's own words of his family that is on the collection held at OU
http://digital.libraries.ou.edu/whc/duke/transcripts/T-360-2.pdf
I cannot copy and paste this into the window, it is in PDF format... but if you read this, you will see it is a interview of Henry Longtail dated December 26, 1968, now remember, Walter claims Henry died in 1920.... I am sure that John Walter Wallen was born in 1877 and died in 1920, but he is not Henry Longtail... here is Henry Longtail's Social Security Death Index information
Name: Henry Longtail
SSN: 447-18-0879
Last Residence: 74301 Vinita, Craig, Oklahoma, United States of America
Born: 24 May 1904
Last Benefit: 74301 Vinita, Craig, Oklahoma, United States of America
Died: Jan 1985
State (Year) SSN issued: Oklahoma (Before 1951)
Abraham Longtail was married once, his wife was Amanda they had 12 children. Most are buried in the Longtail Cemetery, that is where Abraham and Amanda are both buried at, this refutes Walters claim that Abraham aka Jake is buried in Ohio. The cemetery is in the link I provided from the OU Collections.
You will also be able to read that Abraham aka Jake, got sick and died, I am sure William Henry Wallen did fall onto a pile of bricks in 1912, died and is buried in Ohio, but not Jake, he did not die until 1941, and he is burried in Longtail Cemetery in Oklahoma.
My family is in the 1857 Shawnee Census in Kansas, Starting with John Longtail age 45, his wife Elizabeth age 40, and their children Martha age 18, Mary age 12, Sarah age 10, Stephen age 8, Anna age 4, Jane age 3 and Abraham age 15 months.
Someone may comment that Jake's headstone on his grave reads he was born in 1847, but the headstone is old and was read wrong on the date of birth because we have the 1857 Kansas census to correct the time when he was born. This is not a uncommon mistake when in these old cemeteries.
Here is a link to the 1857 but you must be a member of Ancestry to view these records:
http://search.ancestry.com/iexec/?htx=View&r=an&dbid=1088&iid=ks1856_1-0627&fn=James&ln=Longtail&st=r&ssrc=&pid=7576979
Now, there are other records in the OU collection that refers to the Longtail family:
http://digital.libraries.ou.edu/whc/duke/transcript.asp?tID=516&sID=0
http://digital.libraries.ou.edu/whc/duke/transcript.asp?tID=533&sID=0
http://digital.libraries.ou.edu/whc/duke/transcript.asp?tID=591&sID=0
http://digital.libraries.ou.edu/whc/duke/transcript.asp?tID=426&sID=0
http://digital.libraries.ou.edu/whc/duke/transcript.asp?tID=707&sID=0
http://digital.libraries.ou.edu/whc/duke/transcript.asp?tID=614&sID=0
The only thing that is true about the Longtail family that Walter wrote, is that they are full blood Shawnees.
Now, Al feels that Walter is not hurting anyone, but he, and his group is selling items online as Indian made, that is in violation of the Indian arts and crafts act of 1990.. to which, action is currently being taken, I cannot discuss what all is happening, but I have not sat by with idle hands. So there are people who have purchased items from these people and has been defrauded.
And my family is a victim here, our ancestors are not being allowed to rest in peace, this is a horrible thing to do to anyones ancestor...
Special attention Nikki... I was able to find one person with the name of Longtail in WWI records from Wisconsin, he is listed in the draft records as Indian, but he is NOT a member of my family... his tribe is not listed, but we do not know who he is...
Moma_porcupine:
educatedindian
--- Quote ---Notice this board is about plastic shamans. It's not to go after any and all wannabes, since there are millions of them. That would largely be a waste of time. We concentrate on those that can be shown to be harming people.
--- End quote ---
I guess if you haven't personally had a bad experience with people who aren't who they claim, these folks may seem nothing more than foolish, but from what i have seen , people making false claims do hurt people.
I don't know the person this thread is discussing, but generally speaking, if people know the truth and are living a lie, anyone who threatens to expose the truth will be seen as an enemy and undermined and discredited. ( Such as someone who really is from the tribe that is being falsly claimed ) Whether or not anyone is seriously hurt all depends on the situation. Vulnerable people can be really seriously impacted by what these people can do to protect their NDN identity from being exposed as a lie.
This discrediting and undermining can happen to individuals or tribal authorities who do not support these peoples imagined identities.
I don't think all the people who wrongly claim an Indian identity are liars or bad people. Sometimes they got told this by trusted family members who got a story mixed up. I think it often happened there was a relative by marriage somewhere back there who gets wrongly understood to be an ancestor . Sometimes these stories seem to have got started with earlier versions of todays wannabes - like Grey Owl . Sometimes it seems little children were told they were Indian because it was safer than being identified as mulatto or an illegal immigrant of color. And lately it seems a lot of people are rewriting their family histories just because they wannabe Indian . When false genealogical information gets posted on line, hundreds of related people then get the information they are really Native people when this just isn't true. If this isn't corrected some of these people will pass this on to their children and grandchildren. As these false genealogies and histories often get circulated with stories of how these people have been denied their rights as NDN people, these people do create a lot of problems.
However these stories and false identities get started , when people who believe this have to face the truth - especially if they or their parents or grandparents have been accepted into a Native community that gave them the benifit of the doubt , or in some way this has become an important part of their identity , that also can be totally devastating. ( and I have seen that happen )
Lies are funny things in that they don't always hurt people right away , and sometimes believing in a lie may even help someone over a real rough spot in their lives, but believing in the truth is always a lot safer and and stabler . So as i see it there is a very real public interest in correcting genealogical misinformation . But I agree being polite is important. Even when people really don't deserve it. (and yeah I notice some people really don't) Speaking the truth to someone who's identity is based in a lie is inflamatory enough .
Sorry if this is somewhat off topic, but i do understand why Keeley wants to address this . IMO incorrect genealogical information does need to be challenged, and is often the basis of a lot of the other types of cultural abuse and a false sense of being entitled to do this - which is at the bottom of much of what gets discussed here.
Niiki:
--- Quote from: Moma_porcupine on July 19, 2009, 03:28:49 am ---educatedindian
Sorry if this is somewhat off topic, but i do understand why Keeley wants to address this . IMO incorrect genealogical information does need to be challenged, and is often the basis of a lot of the other types of cultural abuse and a false sense of being entitled to do this - which is at the bottom of much of what gets discussed here.
--- End quote ---
I have heard that Keely herself is not who she has led people to believe on line. Stayed tuned for more information on who Keely is. Keely, when you point a finger of judgement at someone, there are always 3 fingers pointing back at you. By the judgement that you put out on Renz, the same judgement will come back at you. I certainly hope you are prepared for the backlash that is coming your way. I tried to warn you , and you have refused to listen. Therefore I do not have any sympathy for you .
Oneh
Niiki from Tyendinaga Mohawk Territory
Keely:
--- Quote from: Niiki on July 19, 2009, 04:15:31 am ---
--- Quote from: Moma_porcupine on July 19, 2009, 03:28:49 am ---educatedindian
Sorry if this is somewhat off topic, but i do understand why Keeley wants to address this . IMO incorrect genealogical information does need to be challenged, and is often the basis of a lot of the other types of cultural abuse and a false sense of being entitled to do this - which is at the bottom of much of what gets discussed here.
--- End quote ---
I have heard that Keely herself is not who she has led people to believe on line. Stayed tuned for more information on who Keely is. Keely, when you point a finger of judgement at someone, there are always 3 fingers pointing back at you. By the judgement that you put out on Renz, the same judgement will come back at you. I certainly hope you are prepared for the backlash that is coming your way. I tried to warn you , and you have refused to listen. Therefore I do not have any sympathy for you .
Oneh
Niiki from Tyendinaga Mohawk Territory
--- End quote ---
Good grief Nikki... I dont want your sympathy! All I would like to have had is a little understanding as to why this person is causing so much pain to my family...
I find it really funny that someone would contact you with doubts about me, so let me help you out, because I am sure you are going to get some what false information about me...
My mother died in February. There are some who saved her online obituary... My real parents divorced with I was four years old, my mother re-married in the 1970's and therefore, her married name is not my maiden name. Do you understand that?
My father was murdered in Vinita, Oklahoma in 1992, his name was Lemuel Charley Squirrel. His parents were Isaac Squirrel and Ela Charley Squirrel. Isaacs mother was Anna Longtail.
My family owns Charley Cemetery where my dad, my grandparents and other family members are buried at. The cemetery carries the seal of the Shawnee tribe. All people in our cemetery are Indian. All are related except for one, a young boy who drowned, his family to poor to afford a burial ground for him and we donated a place for him to rest.
My family also owns Longtail cemetery where my family is burried as well. There are Squirrels and Charleys in the Longtail cemetery, and Squirrels in the Charley cemetery.
My grandmother, Ela, was full blood Shawnee from the Absentee Shawnee. My grandfather was a full blood from the Loyal Shawnee.
I am enrolled in a federally recognized tribe. I carry a CNO tribal enrollment card, and a CDIB card. I carry a CNO card because my tribe was adopted by them, and Bill Clinton, as one of his last acts as president, signed a separation of my tribe from the CNO, at that signing, my Uncle was tribal chairman. I did not move my membership from the CNO, I was going to, but now, due to political problems in the tribe, I am glad that I did not move my membership from the CNO.
My photograph is online... I have never hidden who I am...
My Uncle is a well known honored Elder of our tribe. He is honored by many people of many tribes. Many people on many message boards know me personally, some are related to me, and even more know my family.
So, just what would you like to know about me Nikki? What is there left to tell you?
I will tell you Nikki, when my mother passed last February, she was not sick, she was at her hair dressers getting her hair done when she was stricken down. Her death was very hard on my family.. then to read about busy bodies out there who suddenly thought they had some kind of magical information on me when they got my step dads name, they really thought they knew something.. but the joke was on them.
But Nikki, I dont have to prove myself to you, I only give you the information about my family because I really feel that you should have the correct information, lord knows, enough false information has been going around about my family.
Thank you for reading this.
Niiki:
--- Quote from: Keely on July 19, 2009, 05:39:14 am ---
--- Quote from: Niiki on July 19, 2009, 04:15:31 am ---
--- Quote from: Moma_porcupine on July 19, 2009, 03:28:49 am ---educatedindian
Sorry if this is somewhat off topic, but i do understand why Keeley wants to address this . IMO incorrect genealogical information does need to be challenged, and is often the basis of a lot of the other types of cultural abuse and a false sense of being entitled to do this - which is at the bottom of much of what gets discussed here.
--- End quote ---
I have heard that Keely herself is not who she has led people to believe on line. Stayed tuned for more information on who Keely is. Keely, when you point a finger of judgement at someone, there are always 3 fingers pointing back at you. By the judgement that you put out on Renz, the same judgement will come back at you. I certainly hope you are prepared for the backlash that is coming your way. I tried to warn you , and you have refused to listen. Therefore I do not have any sympathy for you .
Oneh
Niiki from Tyendinaga Mohawk Territory
--- End quote ---
Good grief Nikki... I dont want your sympathy! All I would like to have had is a little understanding as to why this person is causing so much pain to my family...
I find it really funny that someone would contact you with doubts about me, so let me help you out, because I am sure you are going to get some what false information about me...
My mother died in February. There are some who saved her online obituary... My real parents divorced with I was four years old, my mother re-married in the 1970's and therefore, her married name is not my maiden name. Do you understand that?
My father was murdered in Vinita, Oklahoma in 1992, his name was Lemuel Charley Squirrel. His parents were Isaac Squirrel and Ela Charley Squirrel. Isaacs mother was Anna Longtail.
My family owns Charley Cemetery where my dad, my grandparents and other family members are buried at. The cemetery carries the seal of the Shawnee tribe. All people in our cemetery are Indian. All are related except for one, a young boy who drowned, his family to poor to afford a burial ground for him and we donated a place for him to rest.
My family also owns Longtail cemetery where my family is burried as well. There are Squirrels and Charleys in the Longtail cemetery, and Squirrels in the Charley cemetery.
My grandmother, Ela, was full blood Shawnee from the Absentee Shawnee. My grandfather was a full blood from the Loyal Shawnee.
I am enrolled in a federally recognized tribe. I carry a CNO tribal enrollment card, and a CDIB card. I carry a CNO card because my tribe was adopted by them, and Bill Clinton, as one of his last acts as president, signed a separation of my tribe from the CNO, at that signing, my Uncle was tribal chairman. I did not move my membership from the CNO, I was going to, but now, due to political problems in the tribe, I am glad that I did not move my membership from the CNO.
My photograph is online... I have never hidden who I am...
My Uncle is a well known honored Elder of our tribe. He is honored by many people of many tribes. Many people on many message boards know me personally, some are related to me, and even more know my family.
So, just what would you like to know about me Nikki? What is there left to tell you?
I will tell you Nikki, when my mother passed last February, she was not sick, she was at her hair dressers getting her hair done when she was stricken down. Her death was very hard on my family.. then to read about busy bodies out there who suddenly thought they had some kind of magical information on me when they got my step dads name, they really thought they knew something.. but the joke was on them.
But Nikki, I dont have to prove myself to you, I only give you the information about my family because I really feel that you should have the correct information, lord knows, enough false information has been going around about my family.
Thank you for reading this.
--- End quote ---
Keely says she is Shawnee all her life but this this is what she says in 2002:
Keely Squirrel-Denning:
Enrolled Cherokee Nation, Oklahoma
An American Indian's View of 'Thanksgiving'
"Some people view 'thanksgiving'
as a white holiday..but it's not."
Guest column by Keely Denning
NAIIP News Path ~ Tuesday, November 4, 2002
Copyright © K.Denning
All Rights Reserved
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Some people may view "thanksgiving" as a white people holiday.. but its not. It is
saddened that the holiday has been twisted with the Indian/Pilgrim story... and it is
even sadder that people use this holiday as a protest to Columbus coming here.. lets
face it, Columbus was not at the "first" thanksgiving dinner... And lets use this
holiday for political protests... gee how wonderful for the true meaning of thanksgiving..
SO what is thanksgiving? My tribe had this celebration long before white man ever came
to this country. It is actually a celebration of harvest. No, the Indians didn't have
it every third week in November, they had the celebration when the harvest was done,
nothing was more valuable as food. Winter was hard to survive. Eating has always been
a very important thing to the Indian people, all Indians. SO these Indians had taught
those new white people how to plant, how to harvest, and how to celebrate. How were
these Indians supposed to know these white people were going to turn on them? It is not
for you nor I to speculate. But I feel it is a great insult to those tribes who
celebrate harvest, and to the memory of those who all came together on not just a day of
celebration, but a week...
I don't know about anyone else... but I am tired of seeing a VERY traditional harvest
celebration torn apart, ridiculed, nitpicked, insulted, and political protests used
against something that someone has no understanding of.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Keely Squirrel-Denning, an enrolled member of the Cherokee Nation, Oklahoma, can be reached by e-mail.
And she was looking around for her ancestors in 2004, when she claims she knows who she was all of her life:
"NAIIP News Path!" | "Cherokee News Path!" |
| "the People's Paths!" |
| "People's Paths Site Index!" |
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
of http://www.thepeoplespaths.net/News2002/0211/KDenning021105viewthanksgiving.htm
Charley's of Oklahoma:
October 14, 2003
My husband is a descendant of Little Charley, Mark Charley,& Eugene Charley. They are
from the Little Axe area in Oklahoma. They are Absentee Shawnee. Any connection?
Keely Denning wrote: http://genforum.genealogy.com/charley/messages/63.html
Would like to know more of your Charley's, I am the great grandaughter of Sam Charley
and Betsy Panther Charley. I believe Sam to be the son of Delaware Charley, their
daughter Eli married Isaac Squirrel who was Shawnee. kdenning@cox.net
December 13, 2004
Oneh
Niiki from Tyendinaga Mohawk Territory
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