Author Topic: Walter Renz  (Read 98875 times)

Offline educatedindian

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Re: Walter Renz
« Reply #15 on: July 17, 2009, 01:34:39 pm »
At this point it's under Research because there's competing accounts from Keely and Renz. Unfortunately there's not much I can add. Renz is only online on a few genealogy threads, sometimes alongside Keely's challenges to him. The Morning Star Shawnee show up as once having had a now defunct MSN group, plus a few listings on unrecognized tribes lists. There's no sign I can find of seeking a casino.

August Renz's family should show up in the historical records if they were killed in Nazi death camps. The Nazis were fanatic about record keeping.

Offline Keely

  • Posts: 103
Re: Walter Renz
« Reply #16 on: July 17, 2009, 10:39:07 pm »
Nikki,

What the hell is wrong with you? Did you suddenly fall out of a tree and hit every branch on the way down?
Let me remind you of your private email to me:

Sego, Keely;


   Yes some of us here in Canada met Renz 2 times, as result of contact he made with one of my aquaintenances.

   There are a lot questions that we have about him , as much of what he told us doesn't add up. Especially, when his own people , this Chaliawa Nation really don't support what he does. They want him to do the work for him , but have have not given him any support, financially or physically. He basically told us that his mother, his wife and himself are the ones that do all of the work. The whole time he was here his wife called him about every 5 minutes, which ran up a huge cell phone bill. Then she will also call others up here running up their cell phone bills trying to reach him. He also wrote a cheque for 172.00 that bounced and he has dsihonoured by not covering it, after making several promises to. He also used and mouched off of people's goodness when he was here, promising to return to help us take care of the mounds issue in Toronto. He made several promises and guarentees of return, failing to keep his word. One of our chiefs at Tyendinaga, let me and my aquaintence know that his name is on a "to be dealt with list", because of his lack of keeping his committment to our people, and stating he would be by Stewart Maracle's side to support him. He made a big mistake with Stewart to make such a committment, and then not follow through with it. He is in toruble with the men's councils up here because of this and other things.
There were also questions about his genealogy as certain things do not add up.
Any blanks you can help us fill would greatly be appreciated. Renz also has been warned, that because he did not show up at the Clanmother's meeting at Six Nations Grand Territory last wednesday, his name would be mudd up here. Since then there has been no contact with him, nor have we heard anything from him. Again suspicion that he isn't who has told us he is and that he has no intention in clearing matters up here or taking responsibilty for what he says are his ancestoral sites in Toronto.

Oneh


Niiki from Tyendinga Mohawk Territory
 

Now you want to take up with this loser? LOL go for it ok??

as for your accusation of me being Seneca, and part of the confederated tribes, how many times do I gotta tell ya.. I aint Seneca! You have my tribe confused with the EASTERN BAND SHAWNEE.. they did infact live together, but I am NOT Eastern Band, I do have cousins in the Eastern Shawnee.. but those cousins are NOT Longtail family.. they are BLUEJACKET family.

Now as far as Walters claims to Darrel Larney, and Andy Warrior, of whom I know, and spoke with Darrel today, that is far from the truth of what he wrote, and anyone can call Darrel or Andy at the Absentee Shawnee Tribe and find out the truth about Walter Renz. PLUS, Longtails are not part of the Absentee Shawnee Tribe! Anyone who is Indian on these boards, will know, that NO TRIBE ever offers a tribal card to just anyone. We all have to apply for citizenship within our tribe. We ALL have to prove we are who we say we are.

The more and more Walter write, the more and more of a fool he makes of himself with his made up lies.

Notice in his email he claims that Abraham/Jake Longtail and Henry Lontail are burried in Ohio.. but I guess Walter did not count on the fact that the Longtail family has their own cemetery, and they are burried there with their families, and that cemetery is in OKLAHOMA not OHIO...

Also, are the records of interviews with Henry taken in 1969 or there abouts of which he speaks of his father arriving in Oklahoma, him being born in Oklahoma and spent his whole life in Oklahoma! These records are with the historical records at OU in Norman Oklahoma and are part of the Doris Duke collection. And it is not only records on file from Henry Longtail, but many, many others are there which mention the Longtail family...  when they arrived in Oklahoma, when they were born, when they died, who their children were, their names, who they married, where desendants are now..

If you think for one second that I am any part of any confederacy, and have no voice of my own, then you need to seek professional help... If you think I answer to any confederacy then you need to seek professional help, if you think that any confederacy has any say over what I do, what I think, or how I do it, then you need to seek professional help. The only persons I answer to is my tribal Elders, and they are NOT Seneca nor are they part of the confederacy. So get over yourself, this confederacy you belong to has no control over me, or my people... they are not god.


 


Now, for this "

Offline Keely

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Re: Walter Renz
« Reply #17 on: July 18, 2009, 12:57:51 am »
At this point it's under Research because there's competing accounts from Keely and Renz. Unfortunately there's not much I can add. Renz is only online on a few genealogy threads, sometimes alongside Keely's challenges to him. The Morning Star Shawnee show up as once having had a now defunct MSN group, plus a few listings on unrecognized tribes lists. There's no sign I can find of seeking a casino.

August Renz's family should show up in the historical records if they were killed in Nazi death camps. The Nazis were fanatic about record keeping.

He does not claim the Renz are Indian, he claims a different part of his family, which is his mothers side, so her maiden name would will be Wallen.

Currently, a couple of these "members" of this group "morning star" are on federal notice for violations of the Indian Arts and Crafts Act.

I dont know why this group would want to seek a casino... well yeah, its would be all about money and according to a email from Nikki, Walter is quite good at writing bad checks... I heard a rumor that Walter is in quite a bit of trouble for something and could be seeing the inside of a court room..


Offline Niiki

  • Posts: 216
Re: Walter Renz
« Reply #18 on: July 18, 2009, 10:54:22 am »
Nikki,
If you think for one second that I am any part of any confederacy, and have no voice of my own, then you need to seek professional help... If you think I answer to any confederacy then you need to seek professional help, if you think that any confederacy has any say over what I do, what I think, or how I do it, then you need to seek professional help. The only persons I answer to is my tribal Elders, and they are NOT Seneca nor are they part of the confederacy. So get over yourself, this confederacy you belong to has no control over me, or my people... they are not god.
Now, for this "

Keely, it's apparent that the person who needs to seek professional help is you , who carries on these hateful rants. You have gone off the deep end. And no I have not fallen out of tree, it's called consultation and hearing what others have to have say about this subject within the Six Nations Confederacy who have met Walter and are supporting him. And call our Confederacy down like this, will only get you into a lot trouble as your emails have been forwarded onto those who will take action to put a stop to this. As I suggested and you seem not to take suggestions too well, take this up with Renz directly and not on the internet. As it is now appearing that you are trying to push a land claim in an area that the Shawnee have no territorial or legitimate rights of claim to. If you knew anything about the teachings of Grandmother Moon, you would know that no one can own the land. Therefore all of these land claims are wrong, that nations outside of the Six Nations Confederacy do not have a say, and that the Six Nations Confederacy does have legitimate say and leadership over, you do fall within that jurisdiction, and therefore, don't have a say over any matters or goings on within the area of jurisdiction of the Six Nations Confederacy. The more you post here, the more rope you will be giving yourself with us.


Oneh


Niiki from Tyendinaga Mohawk Territory


From: renzsilver@hotmail.com
To: kdenning@cox.net
Subject: RE: My decent of Blood
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2009 18:38:25 -0400

Keely,
I never said that they offered me a card. I said I told them not to give me one.
Andrew and Darrel are wonderful people. And I am not using there name in a bad way at all. And Your on a path that has caused troubles for the Shawnee since 1800's. The Longtail land is under the Absentee Shawnee Tribe control.
I am not out to make fame or money from my ancestory.
And I did not say your family was Wallen. That was the name that was used here to hide the family. There is an article in the Toledo Blade. That a reporter came to the Wallen Cabin knowing that William was a Shawnee Chief. They would not open the door to speak with the reporter.
Your a researcher. Lets see if you can find that.
I have spent most of my life to benefit others. Not to harm people.
 
I wish you well. And take care.
Walter
 

« Last Edit: July 18, 2009, 10:59:06 am by Niiki »

Offline Niiki

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Re: Walter Renz
« Reply #19 on: July 18, 2009, 11:12:42 am »
WallenReport  
Descendants of Ralph Wallen  
  
Generation No. 1

 1.  RALPH1 WALLEN was born 1598-1603 in London, England, and died 1633-1634 in
Plymouth, Mass..  He married (1) JOYCE ?.  He married (2) JOYCE.
  Children of RALPH WALLEN and JOYCE ? are:
 2. i. THOMAS2 WALLEN, b. 1627, Plymouth, Massachusetts; d. July 19, 1674,
Providence, Rhode Island.
  ii. JANE WALLEN, m. JOHN HALL.
  
  iii. ANN WALLEN, b. Abt. 1624; m. JOHN SMALLEY.
  
  iv. RICHARD WALLEN.
  
  
  Child of RALPH WALLEN and JOYCE is:
 3. v. THOMAS2 WALLEN, b. 1627, Plymouth, Massachusetts; d. July 19, 1674,
Providence, Rhode Island.
  
  


Generation No. 2

  



 2.  THOMAS2 WALLEN (RALPH1) was born 1627 in Plymouth, Massachusetts, and died
July 19, 1674 in Providence, Rhode Island.  He married (1) MARGARET WHITE.  He
married (2) MARY ABBOTT, daughter of DANIEL ABBOTT and MARY.
  Children of THOMAS WALLEN and MARGARET WHITE are:
  i. WILLIAM3 WALLEN, b. May 20, 1670.
  
  ii. JOHN WALLEN, b. May 20, 1670.
  
  iii. CORNELIUS WALLEN, b. October 25, 1672.
  
  
  Children of THOMAS WALLEN and MARY ABBOTT are:
 4. iv. THOMAS3 WALLING II, b. October 22, 1662, Providence, Rhode Island; d.
October 22, 1724, Cohanse County, New York.
  v. JOHN WALLING, b. Abt. 1651.
  
  vi. GERSHOM WALLING, b. Abt. 1655.
  
  vii. ABIGAIL WALLEN, b. Abt. 1664.
  
 

 viii. JAMES WALLEN, b. Abt. 1666; d. April 04, 1753, Providence, Rhode Island;
m. ELIZABETH NOX, March 24, 1750/51, Providence, Rhode Island.
  
  
 3.  THOMAS2 WALLEN (RALPH1) was born 1627 in Plymouth, Massachusetts, and died
July 19, 1674 in Providence, Rhode Island.  He married MARY ABBOTT.
  Child of THOMAS WALLEN and MARY ABBOTT is:
 5. i. THOMAS3 WALLEN II, b. October 22, 1662, Providence, Rhode Island; d.
October 22, 1724, Cohanse County, New York.
  
  


Generation No. 3

  



 4.  THOMAS3 WALLING II (THOMAS2 WALLEN, RALPH1) was born October 22, 1662 in
Providence, Rhode Island, and died October 22, 1724 in Cohanse County, New York.
 He married SARAH ELWELL May 20, 1695.
  Children of THOMAS WALLING and SARAH ELWELL are:
  i. ABAGAIL4 WALLING, b. March 06, 1696/97; m. JOHN BEDIENT.
  
  ii. THOMAS WALLING, b. February 08, 1697/98, Providence, Rhode Island; m. (1)
BATHNIPLEATH CROSTHWAYT; m. (2) ELIZBETH ?.
  
 6. iii. JOHN WALLING, b. June 20, 1700, Salem, New Jersey.
  iv. WILLIAM WALLING, b. November 21, 1701, Salem, New Jersey; m. MARY
CATHARINE.
  
  v. MARY WALLING, b. September 08, 1703, Salem, New Jersey.
  
 7. vi. JAMES WALLING, b. April 02, 1705, Salem, New Jersey.
  vii. SAMUEL WALLING, b. March 14, 1705/06.
  
  
 5.  THOMAS3 WALLEN II (THOMAS2, RALPH1) was born October 22, 1662 in
Providence, Rhode Island, and died October 22, 1724 in Cohanse County, New York.
 He married SARAH ELWELL May 20, 1695, daughter of THOMAS ELWELL and SARAH
BASSETT.
  Children of THOMAS WALLEN and SARAH ELWELL are:
 8. i. ELISHA4 WALLING, b. July 26, 1708, Salem Co., New Jersey; d. 1785, Henry
Co., Virginia.
  ii. ABIGAIL WALLEN, b. March 05, 1697/98.
  
  iii. THOMAS WALLEN IV, b. February 08, 1698/99.
  
  iv. JOHN WALLEN, b. June 20, 1700.
  
  v. WILLIAM WALLEN, b. November 21, 1701.
  
  vi. MARY WALLEN, b. September 08, 1703.
  


  vii. JAMES WALLEN, b. April 02, 1705.
  
  viii. SAMUEL WALLEN, b. March 14, 1706/07.
  
  ix. JOSEPH WALLEN, b. April 30, 1709.
  
  x. BENJAMIN WALLEN, b. 1711.
  
  xi. REBECCA WALLEN, b. January 22, 1716/17.
  
  


Generation No. 4

  



 6.  JOHN4 WALLING (THOMAS3, THOMAS2 WALLEN, RALPH1) was born June 20, 1700 in
Salem, New Jersey.  He married (1) HOPE ORR.  He married (2) HOPE BOWDITCH.
  Child of JOHN WALLING and HOPE BOWDITCH is:
 9. i. PHEBE WALLING5 WALLING, b. September 15, 1736.
 7.  JAMES4 WALLING (THOMAS3, THOMAS2 WALLEN, RALPH1) was born April 02, 1705 in
Salem, New Jersey.  He married MARY DELASHMUTT.
  Children of JAMES WALLING and MARY DELASHMUTT are:
  i. JAMES5 WALLING, b. September 20, 1727.
  
  ii. JOHN WALLING, b. Abt. 1729.
  
  iii. DELASHMUTT WALLING, b. Abt. 1740.
  
  iv. JOHN WALLING, b. Abt. 1742.
  
  
 8.  ELISHA4 WALLING (THOMAS3 WALLEN II, THOMAS2, RALPH1) was born July 26, 1708
in Salem Co., New Jersey, and died 1785 in Henry Co., Virginia.  He married MARY
BLEVINS Abt. 1730 in Prince Georges County, Maryland, daughter of WILLIAM
BLEVINS.
  Children of ELISHA WALLING and MARY BLEVINS are:
 10. i. JOSEPH5 WALLEN, b. Abt. 1738, Prince Georges County, Maryland; d. 1792,
Kentucky.
 11. ii. THOMAS WALLEN, b. Abt. 1731, Maryland; d. Abt. 1801, Lee County, Va..
  iii. BETSY WALLEN, b. Abt. 1733; m. WILLIAM ROBERTS.
  
  iv. SARAH WALLEN, b. Abt. 1742; m. CLEMENT LEE.
  
  v. JAMES WALLEN, b. Abt. 1746; m. MARY WHITE?.
  
  vi. MARGERY WALLEN, b. Abt. 1748, Pittsylvania Co., Va.; m. ISAAC RICE,
Pittsylvania Co.,Virginia.
  
 




 vii. JOHN WALLEN, b. July 27, 1750, Lunenberg Co., Virginia; d. April 22,
1836, McMinn Co.. Tennessee; m. (1) FRANCES HALE; m. (2) ELIZABETH ROBERTS,
February 18, 1786, Lee County, Va..
  
 12. viii. ELISHA WALLEN , JR., b. Abt. 1735, Maryland; d. January 1814, Wash.
County, Missouri.
 13. ix. THOMAS WALLING, b. Abt. 1734, Maryland; d. Abt. 1801, Lee County, Va..
  x. ELIZABETH WALLING, m. WILL ROBERTS.
  
  xi. ALLEN WALLING.
  
 14. xii. ELISHA WALLING, b. 1732, Prince George County, Maryland.
  
  



Generation No. 5

  



 9.  PHEBE WALLING5 WALLING (JOHN4, THOMAS3, THOMAS2 WALLEN, RALPH1) was born
September 15, 1736.  She married ANDREW PHILLIPS.
  Child of PHEBE WALLING and ANDREW PHILLIPS is:
  i. LUCINDA6 PHILLIPS, b. October 1763; m. JOHN HENRY.
  
  
 10.  JOSEPH5 WALLEN (ELISHA4 WALLING, THOMAS3 WALLEN II, THOMAS2, RALPH1) was
born Abt. 1738 in Prince Georges County, Maryland, and died 1792 in Kentucky.  
He married MILLICENT JONES Abt. 1767 in Pittsylvania Co.,Virginia, daughter of
THOMAS JONES and DIANA.
  Children of JOSEPH WALLEN and MILLICENT JONES are:
 15. i. JAMES CARR6 WALLEN, b. March 18, 1771, Montgomery County, Virginia; d.
October 27, 1845, Hawkins County, Tennessee.
  ii. ELIZABETH WALLEN, b. April 02, 1769, Pittsylvania Co.,Virginia; m.
LITTLETON BROOKS.
  
  iii. NANCY WALLEN, b. May 29, 1773; m. (1) ELIAS WEDDLE, 1790, Lee County,
Va.; m. (2) ELIJAH CURRY, 1814, Hawkins County, Tennessee.
  
  iv. THOMAS WALLEN, d. 1792, Kentucky.
  
  v. ROSAMOND WALLEN, b. April 02, 1777, Grayson Co., Virginia; d. Brown Co.,
Indiana; m. THOMAS WEDDLE, 1796, Hawkins County, Tennessee.
  
  vi. SUSANNAH WALLEN, b. October 11, 1778, Grayson Co., Virginia; d. January
11, 1841, Sparta, Tennessee; m. (1) JOHN HERD, 1794, Hawkins County, Tennessee;
m. (2) WILLIAM ROGERS, 1807, Hawkins County, Tennessee.
  
  vii. MARY WALLEN, b. March 12, 1782; m. DANIEL WEDDLE, Abt. 1798, Hawkins
County, Tennessee.
  
 


 viii. MORNING WALLEN, b. March 29, 1784, Hawkins County, Tennessee; m. STEPHEN
WILBURN.
  
  
 11.  THOMAS5 WALLEN (ELISHA4 WALLING, THOMAS3 WALLEN II, THOMAS2, RALPH1) was
born Abt. 1731 in Maryland, and died Abt. 1801 in Lee County, Va..  He married
MARY COX, daughter of STEPHEN COX and JUDITH WOODSON.
  Child of THOMAS WALLEN and MARY COX is:
 16. i. JUDY6 WALLEN, b. June 17, 1768.
 12.  ELISHA5 WALLEN , JR. (ELISHA4 WALLING, THOMAS3 WALLEN II, THOMAS2, RALPH1)
was born Abt. 1735 in Maryland, and died January 1814 in Wash. County, Missouri.
 He married CATHERINE ELIZABETH BLEVINS.
  Children of ELISHA WALLEN and CATHERINE BLEVINS are:
  i. WILLIAM6 WALLEN, b. 1759; d. 1850.
  
  ii. CATHERINE WALLEN, b. 1766.
  
  iii. BERRYMAN WALLEN, b. Abt. 1770; d. Abt. 1797.
  
  iv. JOHN WALLEN, b. Abt. 1780; d. 1852.
  
  v. ELIZABETH WALLEN, b. 1793; d. 1852.
  
  vi. LUCY WALLEN, b. 1795.
  
  vii. ELISHA WALLEN III, b. November 30, 1795; m. MARY HUGHS.
  
  
 13.  THOMAS5 WALLING (ELISHA4, THOMAS3 WALLEN II, THOMAS2, RALPH1) was born
Abt. 1734 in Maryland, and died Abt. 1801 in Lee County, Va..  He married MARY
COX.
  Children of THOMAS WALLING and MARY COX are:
 17. i. JOSEPH6 WALLING, b. 1775.
  ii. STEPHEN WALLING.
  
  iii. WILLIAM WALLING.
  
 18. iv. ELISHA WALLING, b. March 06, 1760.
 14.  ELISHA5 WALLING (ELISHA4, THOMAS3 WALLEN II, THOMAS2, RALPH1) was born
1732 in Prince George County, Maryland.  He married CATHERINE ELIZABETH BLEVINS.

  Children of ELISHA WALLING and CATHERINE BLEVINS are:
  i. WILLIAM6 WALLEN, b. 1759.
  
  ii. CATHERINE WALLING, b. 1766.
  
  iii. BERRYMAN WALLING, b. Abt. 1770.
  
  iv. JOHN WALLING, b. Abt. 1780.
  
  v. ELIZABETH WALLING, b. Abt. 1793.
  
  vi. ELISHA WALLING, b. November 30, 1795.
  
  vii. LUCY PALMER WALLING, b. Abt. 1798.
  
  



Offline Niiki

  • Posts: 216
Re: Walter Renz
« Reply #20 on: July 18, 2009, 11:13:55 am »
Generation No. 6

  



 15.  JAMES CARR6 WALLEN (JOSEPH5, ELISHA4 WALLING, THOMAS3 WALLEN II, THOMAS2,
RALPH1) was born March 18, 1771 in Montgomery County, Virginia, and died October
27, 1845 in Hawkins County, Tennessee.  He married MARY JOHNSON March 03, 1791
in Hawkins County, Tennessee, daughter of MOSES JOHNSON and SARAH.
  Children of JAMES WALLEN and MARY JOHNSON are:
 19. i. SUSANNAH7 WALLEN, b. January 08, 1804, Hawkins County, Tn.; d. 1875,
Kyles Ford, Tn..
  ii. NANCY WALLEN, b. November 25, 1791; m. THOMAS LAWSON, May 31, 1812,
Hawkins County, Tennessee.
  
  iii. ELIZABETH WALLEN, b. June 01, 1793, Hawkins County, Tennessee; d. 1852,
Hancock County, Tennessee; m. WILLIAM BAKER, October 10, 1810, Hawkins County,
Tennessee.
  
 20. iv. JOHN J. WALLEN, b. December 30, 1794, Hawkins County, Tennessee; d.
Missouri.
  v. MILLICENT WALLEN, b. January 04, 1797; m. ABRAHAM BLEDSOE, December 12,
1816.
  
  vi. JOSEPH B. WALLEN, b. September 26, 1798, Hawkins County, Tennessee; d.
March 02, 1852, Barry Co., Missouri; m. ELENDER NELLIE BAKER, December 16, 1819.

  
 21. vii. JAMES F. WALLEN, b. 1809, Hawkins County, Tennessee; d. 1864, Hancock
County, Tennessee.
  viii. HENRY WALLEN, b. Abt. 1811.
  
  ix. HANNAH WALLEN, b. Abt. 1813.
  
 22. x. WILLIAM J. WALLEN, b. July 14, 1816, Hawkins County, Tennessee; d.
September 07, 1886.
  xi. JESSE WALLEN, b. November 24, 1819, Hawkins County, Tennessee; m. SUSAN
ROBERTS, February 19, 1843, White County, Tennessee.
  
  
 16.  JUDY6 WALLEN (THOMAS5, ELISHA4 WALLING, THOMAS3 WALLEN II, THOMAS2,
RALPH1) was born June 17, 1768.  She married ISAAC CHRISMAN, son of ISAAC
CHRISMAN and JANE SCOTT.
  Children of JUDY WALLEN and ISAAC CHRISMAN are:
  i. JANE7 CHRISMAN, b. August 11, 1788.
  
  ii. MARY CHRISMAN, b. August 11, 1788.
  
  iii. MARGRET CHRISMAN, b. April 10, 1790.
  
  iv. GILBERT CHRISMAN, b. May 06, 1792.
  
 

 v. ELISHA CHRISMAN, b. July 17, 1794.
  
  vi. ISAAC CHRISMAN, b. March 23, 1796.
  
  vii. ELINOR CHRISMAN, b. January 17, 1798.
  
  viii. AGNES CHRISMAN, b. March 09, 1800.
  
  ix. THOMAS CHRISMAN, b. April 18, 1802.
  
  x. WILLIAM CHRISMAN, b. September 26, 1804.
  
  xi. STEPHEN CHRISMAN, b. October 12, 1806.
  
  
 17.  JOSEPH6 WALLING (THOMAS5, ELISHA4, THOMAS3 WALLEN II, THOMAS2, RALPH1) was
born 1775.  He married FRANCES MARY ?.
  Children of JOSEPH WALLING and FRANCES ? are:
 23. i. ELIZABETH7 WALLEN, b. 1807, Scott County, Va.; d. Abt. 1865.
  ii. JOHN WALLEN.
  
  iii. PATSY WALLEN.
  
  iv. MARY WALLEN, b. 1804.
  
  v. JOSEPH WALLEN, b. Abt. 1810.
  
  vi. JESSE WALLEN, b. November 14, 1819, Scott County, Va.; m. ELIZABETH
BISHOP.
  
  
 18.  ELISHA6 WALLING (THOMAS5, ELISHA4, THOMAS3 WALLEN II, THOMAS2, RALPH1) was
born March 06, 1760.  He married ANN ?.
  Children of ELISHA WALLING and ANN ? are:
  i. MARY7 WALLING.
  
  ii. AGNES WALLING.
  
  iii. WINIFRED WALLING.
  
  iv. CATHERINE WALLING.
  
  v. ELIZABETH WALLING.
  
  vi. LUCY WALLING.
  
  vii. ELISHA WALLING.
  
  viii. WILLIAM WALLING.
  
  







Generation No. 7

  



 19.  SUSANNAH7 WALLEN (JAMES CARR6, JOSEPH5, ELISHA4 WALLING, THOMAS3 WALLEN
II, THOMAS2, RALPH1) was born January 08, 1804 in Hawkins County, Tn., and died
1875 in Kyles Ford, Tn..  She married JOHN SIMPSON BAKER May 27, 1825, son of
ROBERT BAKER and ELIZABETH BLOUNT.
  Children of SUSANNAH WALLEN and JOHN BAKER are:
 24. i. WALLEN W.8 BAKER, b. September 09, 1837, Tennessee; d. Unknown.
  ii. WILLIAM BAKER, b. January 17, 1826.
  
  iii. JAMES ELIJAH BAKER, b. September 1827.
  
  iv. ELIZABETH BAKER, b. May 31, 1829.
  
 25. v. JOHN BAKER, b. April 22, 1831; d. March 26, 1903, Lee County, Va..
  vi. SUSANNAH BAKER, b. April 10, 1833.
  
  vii. NANCY BAKER, b. September 13, 1835.
  
  viii. ELY BAKER, b. October 25, 1839.
  
  ix. MANILY BAKER, b. February 05, 1842.
  
  x. MARY BAKER, b. April 02, 1844.
  
 26. xi. NOAH BAKER, b. October 19, 1846; d. 1905, Pineville, Kentucky.
 20.  JOHN J.7 WALLEN (JAMES CARR6, JOSEPH5, ELISHA4 WALLING, THOMAS3 WALLEN II,
THOMAS2, RALPH1) was born December 30, 1794 in Hawkins County, Tennessee, and
died in Missouri.  He married ELIZABETH WALLING March 07, 1813 in Hawkins
County, Tennessee.
  Children of JOHN WALLEN and ELIZABETH WALLING are:
  i. JESSE8 WALLEN, b. November 26, 1813.
  
  ii. MILLICENT WALLEN, b. November 10, 1815.
  
 27. iii. JAMES WALLEN, b. February 20, 1818.
  iv. JOHN CARR WALLEN, b. February 20, 1820.
  
  v. NANCY WALLEN, b. December 01, 1821.
  
  vi. SUSANNAH WALLEN, b. March 01, 1824.
  
  vii. JOSEPH WALLEN, b. June 05, 1826.
  
  viii. SHADY WALLEN, b. December 24, 1830.
  
  ix. ANDREW WALLEN, b. 1830.
  
  x. SHADRACK WALLEN, b. 1828.
  
  

 21.  JAMES F.7 WALLEN (JAMES CARR6, JOSEPH5, ELISHA4 WALLING, THOMAS3 WALLEN
II, THOMAS2, RALPH1) was born 1809 in Hawkins County, Tennessee, and died 1864
in Hancock County, Tennessee.  He married MARGARET ROBINSON April 05, 1832 in
Hawkins County, Tennessee.
  Children of JAMES WALLEN and MARGARET ROBINSON are:
 28. i. HANNAH8 WALLEN, b. 1852, Hancock County, Tennessee; d. March 1912,
Hancock County, Tennessee.
 29. ii. ALFRED WALLEN, b. 1843; d. 1912.
 22.  WILLIAM J.7 WALLEN (JAMES CARR6, JOSEPH5, ELISHA4 WALLING, THOMAS3 WALLEN
II, THOMAS2, RALPH1) was born July 14, 1816 in Hawkins County, Tennessee, and
died September 07, 1886.  He married JANE BANKS June 09, 1836.
 Notes for WILLIAM J. WALLEN:
William J. Wallen's nickname was "Big Sandy".  He was a farmer and a blacksmith;
served in Union Army in Civil War.
  Child of WILLIAM WALLEN and JANE BANKS is:
 30. i. JOSEPH B.8 WALLEN, b. February 18, 1840; d. August 12, 1912.
 23.  ELIZABETH7 WALLEN (JOSEPH6 WALLING, THOMAS5, ELISHA4, THOMAS3 WALLEN II,
THOMAS2, RALPH1) was born 1807 in Scott County, Va., and died Abt. 1865.  She
married (1) ? FLANARY.  She married (2) JOHN MILLER.  She married (3) SAMPSON
BISHOP Abt. 1827 in Scott County, Va..
  Children of ELIZABETH WALLEN and SAMPSON BISHOP are:
 31. i. JOSEPH8 BISHOP, b. 1830, Duffield, Va.(Scott County); d. October 09,
1878, Duffield, Va.(Scott County).
  ii. JOHN BISHOP, b. 1828, Scott County, Va.; d. May 27, 1865, Scott County,
Va..
  
 32. iii. LOUISA MILLER, b. March 13, 1838, Scott County, Va.; d. February 13,
1922, Scott County, Va..
  
  



Offline Niiki

  • Posts: 216
Re: Walter Renz
« Reply #21 on: July 18, 2009, 11:15:14 am »
Generation No. 8

  



 24.  WALLEN W.8 BAKER (SUSANNAH7 WALLEN, JAMES CARR6, JOSEPH5, ELISHA4 WALLING,
THOMAS3 WALLEN II, THOMAS2, RALPH1) was born September 09, 1837 in Tennessee,
and died Unknown.  He married SIDNEY J. WARREN March 21, 1862 in Rockcastle
County, Kentucky.
 Notes for WALLEN W. BAKER:
Wallen W. Baker fought in the Civil War for the Union in the 19th Kentucky
Infantry.  He was listed in the 1890 Hancock County, Tn. Veterans Census.
  Children of WALLEN BAKER and SIDNEY WARREN are:
  i. LAURA9 BAKER, b. Abt. 1877, Tennessee; d. Unknown; m. TYLER MAXEY.
  
 33. ii. MINERVA BAKER, b. Abt. 1870, Tennessee.
  iii. ALICE BAKER, b. Abt. 1872.
  
  iv. MARTHA BAKER, b. Abt. 1878; m. JIM LAWSON.
  
 



34. v. CAROLINE BAKER, b. October 15, 1867, Crab Orchard, Kentucky(Lincoln
County); d. May 20, 1938, Stonega, Va.(Wise County).
  vi. NOAH BAKER, b. Abt. 1865.
  
  vii. JEFFERSON BAKER, b. December 08, 1876, Hancock County, Tn.; d. November
19, 1947, St. Charles, Va.(Lee County).
  
  viii. SUSAN BAKER, b. Abt. 1863.
  
  
 25.  JOHN8 BAKER (SUSANNAH7 WALLEN, JAMES CARR6, JOSEPH5, ELISHA4 WALLING,
THOMAS3 WALLEN II, THOMAS2, RALPH1) was born April 22, 1831, and died March 26,
1903 in Lee County, Va..  He married (1) PERMDY VANNOY February 28, 1850 in
Claiborne County, Tennessee.  He married (2) POLLY RAMSEY September 15, 1850 in
Claiborne County, Tennessee.
  Child of JOHN BAKER and PERMDY VANNOY is:
 35. i. ISAAC9 BAKER, b. March 24, 1850, Tennessee; d. April 02, 1910, Lee
County, Va..
  Child of JOHN BAKER and POLLY RAMSEY is:
  ii. WILLIAM GRANVILLE9 BAKER, b. February 19, 1891, Oct. 29, 1891.
  
  
 26.  NOAH8 BAKER (SUSANNAH7 WALLEN, JAMES CARR6, JOSEPH5, ELISHA4 WALLING,
THOMAS3 WALLEN II, THOMAS2, RALPH1) was born October 19, 1846, and died 1905 in
Pineville, Kentucky.  He married LUCY ANN GIBSON January 09, 1867 in Pulaski
County, Kentucky, daughter of JAMES GIBSON.
  Children of NOAH BAKER and LUCY GIBSON are:
  i. WALLEN9 BAKER, b. Abt. 1869.
  
  ii. THURMAN BAKER, b. April 1872; d. Clay County, Kentucky; m. IVA BELL.
  
 36. iii. JOHN BAKER, b. November 1874, Sneedville, Tn.; d. June 19, 1929, Flat
Lick, Ky.(Bell County).
  iv. NOAH BAKER , JR., b. Abt. 1879; m. LULU GREENE.
  
  v. ELI BAKER, b. 1871, Clay County, Kentucky.
  
  vi. MAARY BAKER.
  
  
 27.  JAMES8 WALLEN (JOHN J.7, JAMES CARR6, JOSEPH5, ELISHA4 WALLING, THOMAS3
WALLEN II, THOMAS2, RALPH1) was born February 20, 1818.  He married JANE BURTON.

  Children of JAMES WALLEN and JANE BURTON are:
 37. i. JOHN W.9 WALLEN, b. 1852.
  ii. MALISSA WALLEN, b. 1839.
  
  iii. ROBERT WALLEN, b. 1842.
  
  iv. MARIAN WALLEN, b. 1844.
  
  v. RICHARD WALLEN, b. 1845.
  
  vi. MARGARET WALLEN, b. 1849.
  
  

vii. MARTHA WALLEN, b. 1854.
  
  viii. ELIZABETH WALLEN, b. 1856.
  
  
 28.  HANNAH8 WALLEN (JAMES F.7, JAMES CARR6, JOSEPH5, ELISHA4 WALLING, THOMAS3
WALLEN II, THOMAS2, RALPH1) was born 1852 in Hancock County, Tennessee, and died
March 1912 in Hancock County, Tennessee.  She married JOHN WESLEY FANNON Abt.
1873 in Hancock County, Tennessee.
  Child of HANNAH WALLEN and JOHN FANNON is:
 38. i. LONA DEANNA9 FANNON, b. July 15, 1876, Hancock County, Tennessee; d.
September 09, 1961, Claiborne County, Tennessee.
 29.  ALFRED8 WALLEN (JAMES F.7, JAMES CARR6, JOSEPH5, ELISHA4 WALLING, THOMAS3
WALLEN II, THOMAS2, RALPH1) was born 1843, and died 1912.
  Child of ALFRED WALLEN is:
 39. i. CHARLES9 WALLEN, b. November 02, 1874; d. November 03, 1962.
 30.  JOSEPH B.8 WALLEN (WILLIAM J.7, JAMES CARR6, JOSEPH5, ELISHA4 WALLING,
THOMAS3 WALLEN II, THOMAS2, RALPH1) was born February 18, 1840, and died August
12, 1912.  He married (1) SUSAN BAKER.  He married (2) ELIZA TIGNOR Aft. 1868.
  
  
  Children of JOSEPH WALLEN and SUSAN BAKER are:
  i. LUTHER9 WALLEN, b. September 08, 1866.
  
  ii. ELIZABETH WALLEN, b. April 15, 1868; m. NEWTON DEAN, December 19, 1889.
  
  
  Children of JOSEPH WALLEN and ELIZA TIGNOR are:
 40. iii. RUFUS ISAAC9 WALLEN, b. October 19, 1881, Hancock County, Tn.; d.
April 28, 1953, Hancock County, Tn..
 41. iv. WILLIAM HENRY WALLEN, b. May 22, 1879; d. 1958.
  v. SARAH J. WALLEN, b. June 07, 1870; d. July 13, 1913; m. RICHARD JOHNSON.
  
  vi. CORDELIA WALLEN, b. June 13, 1871, Hancock County, Tn.; m. DAVID ROBERTS.
  
  vii. MARTHA J. WALLEN, b. August 01, 1872; d. July 24, 1901; m. (1) HAMPTON
HURD; m. (2) THOMAS JOHNSON.
  
  viii. MELINDA WALLEN, b. June 06, 1874; d. March 22, 1936; m. BURDINE D.
FISHER.
  
  ix. JOHN W. WALLEN, b. 1875, Hancock County, Tn.; d. 1955; m. (1) SARAH
BROTHERTON; m. (2) KATE BIGGS.
  
  x. MARY P. WALLEN, b. January 02, 1881; d. June 03, 1940; m. HAMPTON R.
WILLIS.
  
  xi. PHEBE TENNESSEE WALLEN, b. January 04, 1882; d. October 08, 1974; m.
LILBURN J. FISHER.
  
  xii. JOSEPH LLOYD WALLEN, b. August 10, 1887; d. January 15, 1975; m. ETHEL
BLEDSOE, 1913.
  
  xiii. ARTHUR D. WALLEN, b. June 03, 1890; d. January 09, 1897.
  
  

xiv. LEANDER WALLEN, b. February 17, 1877; d. June 24, 1937; m. IDA WADDELL,
1906.
  
  
 31.  JOSEPH8 BISHOP (ELIZABETH7 WALLEN, JOSEPH6 WALLING, THOMAS5, ELISHA4,
THOMAS3 WALLEN II, THOMAS2, RALPH1) was born 1830 in Duffield, Va.(Scott
County), and died October 09, 1878 in Duffield, Va.(Scott County).  He married
NANCY A. BRICKEY Abt. 1850 in Scott County, Va..
  Children of JOSEPH BISHOP and NANCY BRICKEY are:
 42. i. JAMES CONLEY9 BISHOP, b. August 1872, Duffield, Va.(Scott County); d.
1925, Scott County, Va..
 43. ii. MARGARET C. BISHOP, b. 1851.
 44. iii. SARAH JANE BISHOP, b. July 11, 1853, Duffield, Va.(Scott County).
 45. iv. JOHN SOLOMON BISHOP, b. August 09, 1855, Duffield, Va.(Scott County);
d. October 07, 1927, Duffield, Va.(Scott County).
 46. v. SAMPSON BISHOP, b. March 24, 1859, Duffield, Va.(Scott County).
  vi. HENRY BISHOP, b. February 1861, Scott County, Va.; d. December 22, 1865,
Scott County, Va..
  
 47. vii. ELIJAH MARTIN BISHOP, b. July 1862, Duffield, Va.(Scott County); d.
1950.
 48. viii. ISAAC DAVID BISHOP, b. February 1874, Duffield, Va.(Scott County); d.
Scott County, Va..
 32.  LOUISA8 MILLER (ELIZABETH7 WALLEN, JOSEPH6 WALLING, THOMAS5, ELISHA4,
THOMAS3 WALLEN II, THOMAS2, RALPH1) was born March 13, 1838 in Scott County,
Va., and died February 13, 1922 in Scott County, Va..  She married (1) JAMES W.
BISHOP August 14, 1859 in Scott County, Va..  She married (2) WILLIAM PATTON
FORD April 17, 1866 in Scott County, Va..
  Children of LOUISA MILLER and JAMES BISHOP are:
  i. LAFAYETTE WILLIAM9 BISHOP, b. September 1860, Scott County, Va.; d. Scott
County, Va..
  
 49. ii. WILLIAM JESSE BISHOP, b. April 03, 1862.
  Children of LOUISA MILLER and WILLIAM FORD are:
 50. iii. POLLY ANN9 FORD.
 51. iv. AMANDA JANE FORD, b. 1865, Scott County, Va.; d. December 19, 1931,
Scott County, Va..
  v. JAMES L. FORD, b. February 1873, Scott County, Va.; m. ADDIE WAMPLER, Abt.
1896.
  
 52. vi. WILLIAM PATTON FORD ,JR., b. January 18, 1874, Scott County, Va.; d.
January 06, 1951, Scott County, Va..
  vii. NANCY FORD, b. 1878; m. JOE BARNETT.
  
  




  








Offline Niiki

  • Posts: 216
Re: Walter Renz
« Reply #22 on: July 18, 2009, 11:16:29 am »
Generation No. 9


 33.  MINERVA9 BAKER (WALLEN W.8, SUSANNAH7 WALLEN, JAMES CARR6, JOSEPH5,
ELISHA4 WALLING, THOMAS3 WALLEN II, THOMAS2, RALPH1) was born Abt. 1870 in
Tennessee.  She married CARTER HENDERSON ANDERSON.
  Children of MINERVA BAKER and CARTER ANDERSON are:
 53. i. MILAM10 ANDERSON, b. Abt. 1892.
  ii. LILLIE ANDERSON, m. RIGSBY.
  
  iii. LAURA ANDERSON, m. KINSER.
  
  iv. FRANCES ANDERSON, m. ROBERTS.
  
  
 34.  CAROLINE9 BAKER (WALLEN W.8, SUSANNAH7 WALLEN, JAMES CARR6, JOSEPH5,
ELISHA4 WALLING, THOMAS3 WALLEN II, THOMAS2, RALPH1) was born October 15, 1867
in Crab Orchard, Kentucky(Lincoln County), and died May 20, 1938 in Stonega,
Va.(Wise County).  She married (1) MCCLELLAN BELCHER Abt. 1883, son of SIMEON
BELCHER and CELIA.  She married (2) GEORGE SPROLES May 24, 1910 in Wise County,
Virginia, son of B.N. SPROLES.
  
  Children of CAROLINE BAKER and MCCLELLAN BELCHER are:
  i. MARSHALL10 BELCHER.
  
 54. ii. GEORGE BELCHER, b. 1888; d. Unknown.
 55. iii. LILY BELCHER, b. 1889; d. Unknown, Stonega, Va..
  iv. WILLY BELCHER, b. 1889; d. Unknown.
  
 56. v. MARY DOVIE BELCHER, b. January 28, 1902, Sneedville, Tennessee; d.
December 02, 1986, Dayton, Ohio.
 35.  ISAAC9 BAKER (JOHN8, SUSANNAH7 WALLEN, JAMES CARR6, JOSEPH5, ELISHA4
WALLING, THOMAS3 WALLEN II, THOMAS2, RALPH1) was born March 24, 1850 in
Tennessee, and died April 02, 1910 in Lee County, Va..  He married (1) MARGARET
ROBBINS.  He married (2) MARGARET NORA CATHERINE THOMAS September 07, 1880.
  Children of ISAAC BAKER and MARGARET THOMAS are:
  i. MARGARET10 BAKER, b. July 13, 1881; d. November 26, 1964; m. GEORGE
WASHINGTON WOOLARD, Abt. 1900.
  
  ii. MOSES SAMPSON BAKER, b. June 12, 1883; m. SARA ANN WILLIAMS, August 03,
1904.
  
  iii. JOHN WESLEY BAKER, b. November 13, 1886; m. SARA CATHERINE COFFMAN, Abt.
1902.
  
 57. iv. WILLIAM JESS BAKER, b. February 19, 1889; d. December 30, 1968, Smyth
County, Va..
  v. JOSEPH BAKER, b. March 02, 1890; m. MARY TRITT, Abt. 1927.
  
  vi. THOMAS FRANKLIN BAKER, b. October 26, 1892; d. April 25, 1977, Lee County,
Va.; m. EMMER PEARLIE ROGERS.
  
  
 



36.  JOHN9 BAKER (NOAH8, SUSANNAH7 WALLEN, JAMES CARR6, JOSEPH5, ELISHA4
WALLING, THOMAS3 WALLEN II, THOMAS2, RALPH1) was born November 1874 in
Sneedville, Tn., and died June 19, 1929 in Flat Lick, Ky.(Bell County).  He
married DORA MARGARET NELSON.
  Children of JOHN BAKER and DORA NELSON are:
 58. i. BILL JAY10 BAKER, b. May 16, 1915, Tensley, Ky.(Bell County); d. October
05, 1984.
  ii. JAMES W. BAKER, b. 1906; d. January 19, 1953; m. NADINE GAMBLE.
  
  iii. MINNIE BAKER, b. 1910; d. 1929; m. HARVY GRAY.
  
  iv. MATTIE BAKE,  m. (1) OTIS MIRACLE; m. (2) STICE.
  
  v. LUCY BAKER
  
  
 37.  JOHN W.9 WALLEN (JAMES8, JOHN J.7, JAMES CARR6, JOSEPH5, ELISHA4 WALLING,
THOMAS3 WALLEN II, THOMAS2, RALPH1) was born 1852.  He married MARY JOHNSON 1871
in Lee County, Virginia.
  Children of JOHN WALLEN and MARY JOHNSON are:
 59. i. ELIZA10 WALLEN, b. 1879, Lee County, Virginia.
  ii. ELBERT WALLEN, b. 1890.
  
  
 38.  LONA DEANNA9 FANNON (HANNAH8 WALLEN, JAMES F.7, JAMES CARR6, JOSEPH5,
ELISHA4 WALLING, THOMAS3 WALLEN II, THOMAS2, RALPH1) was born July 15, 1876 in
Hancock County, Tennessee, and died September 09, 1961 in Claiborne County,
Tennessee.  She married WILSON SHERMAN JAYNES October 16, 1893 in Claiborne
County, Tennessee.
  Child of LONA FANNON and WILSON JAYNES is:
  i. MARTHA GENEVA10 JAYNES, b. , Claiborne County, Tennessee.
  
  
 39.  CHARLES9 WALLEN (ALFRED8, JAMES F.7, JAMES CARR6, JOSEPH5, ELISHA4
WALLING, THOMAS3 WALLEN II, THOMAS2, RALPH1) was born November 02, 1874, and
died November 03, 1962.  He married ADDIE YEARY August 28, 1900.
  Children of CHARLES WALLEN and ADDIE YEARY are:
 60. i. CHARLES WALLEN10 JR..
  ii. WIRTIE WALLEN.,  m. G.H. TRENT.
  
  iii. ALFRED BURKETTE WALLEN, b. November 16, 1903; d. November 01, 1952.
  
  iv. EMMA WALLEN,  m. CHARLES TESTERMAN.
  
  v. MARY JO WALLEN,  m. CURTIS HODGE.
  
  vi. BEN WALLEN
  
  vii. KENNETH WALLEN, b. March 12, 1917; d. January 01, 1976.
  
  viii. NINA WALLEN, b. May 10, 1905; d. July 30, 1979; m. ASA ARNOLD.
  
  




 40.  RUFUS ISAAC9 WALLEN (JOSEPH B.8, WILLIAM J.7, JAMES CARR6, JOSEPH5,
ELISHA4 WALLING, THOMAS3 WALLEN II, THOMAS2, RALPH1) was born October 19, 1881
in Hancock County, Tn., and died April 28, 1953 in Hancock County, Tn..  He
married EMALINE WADDELL February 02, 1908.
  Children of RUFUS WALLEN and EMALINE WADDELL are:
 61. i. JOSEPH CALLOWAY10 WALLEN, b. , Hancock County, Tn..
  ii. ELMER EWING WALLEN, b. March 07, 1910, Hancock County, Tn.; d. August 11,
1964; m. JEWEL MOLES.
  
  iii. HOMER HORACE WALLEN, b. Hancock County, Tn.; m. ORA ANDERSON.
  
  iv. BASCOM HUBERT WALLEN, b. Hancock County, Tn.; m. (1) MYRTLE HURD; m. (2)
PAULINE PEARSON.
  
  v. FAYE BLANCH WALLEN,  m. CLARENCE COBLE.
  
  vi. IRENE ELLA WALLEN,  m. J.C. CLONCE.
  
  vii. EUGENE CARSON WALLEN,  m. MAUDE OSBORNE.
  
  viii. LAUNA V. WALLEN, m. GLENN SMITH.
  
  
 41.  WILLIAM HENRY9 WALLEN (JOSEPH B.8, WILLIAM J.7, JAMES CARR6, JOSEPH5,
ELISHA4 WALLING, THOMAS3 WALLEN II, THOMAS2, RALPH1) was born May 22, 1879, and
died 1958.  He married (1) LAURA P. BROTHERTON.  He married (2) BERTHA BLEDSOE
1911, daughter of ISAAC BLEDSOE and REBECCA WALLEN.
  Child of WILLIAM WALLEN and BERTHA BLEDSOE is:
 62. i. OVAL JOE10 WALLEN, b. 1911; d. 1967.
 42.  JAMES CONLEY9 BISHOP (JOSEPH8, ELIZABETH7 WALLEN, JOSEPH6 WALLING,
THOMAS5, ELISHA4, THOMAS3 WALLEN II, THOMAS2, RALPH1) was born August 1872 in
Duffield, Va.(Scott County), and died 1925 in Scott County, Va..  He married
ELIZABETH ELLEN MOSELY.
  Children of JAMES BISHOP and ELIZABETH MOSELY are:
 63. i. JOSEPH EARL10 BISHOP.
  ii. ESTELLA BISHOP, m. MOORE.
  
  iii. MARGARET NANCY BISHOP, m. ALLEN.
  
  iv. FRANK BISHOP.
  
 64. v. WINIFRED HELEN BISHOP.
  vi. MCCOY BISHOP.
  
  
 43.  MARGARET C.9 BISHOP (JOSEPH8, ELIZABETH7 WALLEN, JOSEPH6 WALLING, THOMAS5,
ELISHA4, THOMAS3 WALLEN II, THOMAS2, RALPH1) was born 1851.  She married BRAMBLE
REDWINE Aft. 1866.
  Children of MARGARET BISHOP and BRAMBLE REDWINE are:
  i. EMMET10 REDWINE.
  
  ii. DOC REDWINE.
  
  iii. CHARLIE REDWINE.
  
 

 iv. JOHN REDWINE.
  
  v. MELISSA REDWINE.
  
  vi. IDA REDWINE.
  
  vii. ELLA REDWINE.
  
  
 44.  SARAH JANE9 BISHOP (JOSEPH8, ELIZABETH7 WALLEN, JOSEPH6 WALLING, THOMAS5,
ELISHA4, THOMAS3 WALLEN II, THOMAS2, RALPH1) was born July 11, 1853 in Duffield,
Va.(Scott County).  She married WILLIAM T. BAILIE December 03, 1872 in Scott
County, Va..
  Children of SARAH BISHOP and WILLIAM BAILIE are:
  i. JOHN10 BAILEY.
  
  ii. NANCY M. BAILEY, b. October 1873.
  
  iii. JOSEPH ROBERT BAILEY, b. September 29, 1878.
  
 65. iv. LAURA ALICE BAILIE, b. May 1881, Virginia.
 45.  JOHN SOLOMON9 BISHOP (JOSEPH8, ELIZABETH7 WALLEN, JOSEPH6 WALLING,
THOMAS5, ELISHA4, THOMAS3 WALLEN II, THOMAS2, RALPH1) was born August 09, 1855
in Duffield, Va.(Scott County), and died October 07, 1927 in Duffield, Va.(Scott
County).  He married MATILDA COMER PETERSON November 12, 1872 in Duffield,
Va.(Scott County).
  Children of JOHN BISHOP and MATILDA PETERSON are:
  i. HENRY COLUMBUS10 BISHOP, b. August 20, 1874, Duffield, Va.(Scott County).
  
  ii. WILLIAM SAMPSON BISHOP, b. October 24, 1875, Duffield, Va.(Scott County);
d. April 25, 1920, Seth, West Virginia.
  
 66. iii. MAGGIE ALICE BISHOP, b. November 22, 1877, Duffield, Va.(Scott
County); d. February 04, 1944.
 67. iv. DORA BELLE BISHOP, b. February 19, 1879, Duffield, Va.(Scott County);
d. April 17, 1958.
  v. JOSEPH MASBY BISHOP, b. December 07, 1880, Duffield, Va.(Scott County); d.
June 14, 1971, Virginia.
  
  vi. CHARLIE T. BISHOP, b. August 08, 1882; d. January 01, 1888.
  
  vii. WIRLIE B. BISHOP, b. August 08, 1882; d. October 10, 1888.
  
  viii. ELIJAH R. BISHOP, b. May 30, 1884; d. August 10, 1889.
  
  ix. NANCY VENUS BISHOP, b. November 07, 1886, Duffield, Va.(Scott County); d.
July 26, 1974, Virginia; m. HERSCHEL TILSON CHESSER, December 28, 1924.
  
  x. JAMES DAVID BISHOP, b. February 28, 1889, Duffield, Va.(Scott County); d.
Virginia.
  
  xi. ISAAC LUCIEN LEE BISHOP, b. January 28, 1892, Duffield, Va.(Scott County);
d. February 14, 1924, Virginia.
  
 


68. xii. JOHN PROCTOR BISHOP, b. March 07, 1894, Duffield, Va.(Scott County);
d. October 28, 1970, Pineville, Kentucky.
 69. xiii. OMAR GARRETT BISHOP, b. April 20, 1896, Duffield, Va.(Scott County);
d. October 09, 1983, Fort Pierce, Florida.
 70. xiv. JOSIE LILLIAN BISHOP, b. October 14, 1900, Duffield, Va.(Scott
County).
 46.  SAMPSON9 BISHOP (JOSEPH8, ELIZABETH7 WALLEN, JOSEPH6 WALLING, THOMAS5,
ELISHA4, THOMAS3 WALLEN II, THOMAS2, RALPH1) was born March 24, 1859 in
Duffield, Va.(Scott County).  He married JEMIMA KELLY 1877.
  Children of SAMPSON BISHOP and JEMIMA KELLY are:
  i. JOHN10 BISHOP.
  
  ii. CHARLIE BISHOP.
  
  iii. BECKY BISHOP.
  
  iv. NAN BISHOP.
  
  v. LAURA BISHOP.
  
  
 47.  ELIJAH MARTIN9 BISHOP (JOSEPH8, ELIZABETH7 WALLEN, JOSEPH6 WALLING,
THOMAS5, ELISHA4, THOMAS3 WALLEN II, THOMAS2, RALPH1) was born July 1862 in
Duffield, Va.(Scott County), and died 1950.  He married LOUDEMA K. PETERSON
March 22, 1892 in Scott County, Va..
  Children of ELIJAH BISHOP and LOUDEMA PETERSON are:
 71. i. WILLIAM HARRISON10 BISHOP, b. January 1889, Scott County, Va.; d. 1966.
  ii. JOHN E. BISHOP, b. March 1891, Scott County, Va..
  
  iii. ERNEST EDWIN BISHOP, b. Abt. 1893, Scott County, Va..
  
  iv. JOSEPH WORLEY BISHOP, b. September 28, 1895, Scott County, Va.; d.
February 07, 1975, Wise County, Va.; m. IDA MILLER.
  
  v. LULA JANE BISHOP, b. 1896, Scott County, Va.; d. Bef. 1995; m. WILLIAM H.
FLANARY.
  
 72. vi. MAGGIE ALICE BISHOP, b. 1897, Scott County, Va.; d. July 05, 1974.
 73. vii. VENUS NANCY BISHOP, b. 1899, Duffield, Va.(Scott County); d. April 24,
1994, Miami, Florida.
  viii. SAMPSON BISHOP, b. 1902, Scott County, Va.; d. Bef. 1995; m. EDITH
TAYLOR, February 06, 1937, Scott County, Va..
  
  ix. BEATRICE MAY BISHOP, b. 1904; m. WIDNER.
  
 74. x. NOBLE CONLEY BISHOP, b. 1906, Duffield, Va.(Scott County); d. March 30,
1995, Duffield, Va.(Scott County).
  xi. HENRY BISHOP, b. 1908; d. 1908.
  
  xii. ISAAC CLAUDE BISHOP, b. 1908, Virginia; d. Bef. 1995.
  
  xiii. ETTA BISHOP, b. 1911; d. 1912.
  




 75. xiv. EZRA H. BISHOP, b. 1915, Virginia; d. Bef. 1995.
 48.  ISAAC DAVID9 BISHOP (JOSEPH8, ELIZABETH7 WALLEN, JOSEPH6 WALLING, THOMAS5,
ELISHA4, THOMAS3 WALLEN II, THOMAS2, RALPH1) was born February 1874 in Duffield,
Va.(Scott County), and died in Scott County, Va..  He married (1) ETTA F.
JOHNSON.  He married (2) VICTORIA CASTLE.
  Child of ISAAC BISHOP and VICTORIA CASTLE is:
  i. HURLEY10 BISHOP.
  
  
 49.  WILLIAM JESSE9 BISHOP (LOUISA8 MILLER, ELIZABETH7 WALLEN, JOSEPH6 WALLING,
THOMAS5, ELISHA4, THOMAS3 WALLEN II, THOMAS2, RALPH1) was born April 03, 1862.  
He married SALLIE UNKNOWN.
  Child of WILLIAM BISHOP and SALLIE UNKNOWN is:
  i. POLLY10 BISHOP, b. December 1884.
  
  
 50.  POLLY ANN9 FORD (LOUISA8 MILLER, ELIZABETH7 WALLEN, JOSEPH6 WALLING,
THOMAS5, ELISHA4, THOMAS3 WALLEN II, THOMAS2, RALPH1).  She married WILLIAM
GRIFFIN.
  Children of POLLY FORD and WILLIAM GRIFFIN are:
  i. CHARLIE GRIFFIN10 GRIFFIN, b. May 1874.
  
  ii. HENRY GRIFFIN, b. March 1886.
  
  iii. SUSAN GRIFFIN, b. January 1889.
  
  iv. SALLIE GRIFFIN, b. February 1891.
  
  v. STEVE GRIFFIN, b. June 1895.
  
  
 51.  AMANDA JANE9 FORD (LOUISA8 MILLER, ELIZABETH7 WALLEN, JOSEPH6 WALLING,
THOMAS5, ELISHA4, THOMAS3 WALLEN II, THOMAS2, RALPH1) was born 1865 in Scott
County, Va., and died December 19, 1931 in Scott County, Va..  She married (1)
DANIEL J. WALKER November 15, 1881 in Scott County, Va..  She married (2) HAROLD
ST. CLAIR 1900.  She married (3) CHARLIE GOOD Aft. 1910 in Scott County, Va..
  Children of AMANDA FORD and DANIEL WALKER are:
 76. i. LE DORA10 WALKER, b. November 15, 1882, Scott County, Va.; d. January
19, 1953, Scott County, Va..
  ii. SALLIE WALKER, b. Abt. 1883, Scott County, Va.; d. August 20, 1891, Scott
County, Va..
  
  iii. LAURA A. WALKER, b. 1885, Scott County, Va.; d. January 09, 1888.
  
 77. iv. ROSA LEE WALKER, b. June 10, 1886, Scott County, Va.; d. July 06, 1973,
Scott County, Va..
 78. v. WILLIAM LEE WALKER, b. March 10, 1889, Scott County, Va.; d. September
16, 1941, Sullivan County, Tn..
  Children of AMANDA FORD and HAROLD ST. CLAIR are:
  vi. MAY10 ST. CLAIR,  m. (1) ELLIS LUNDY; m. (2) JOHN WOLFE.
  
  vii. HAROLD ST. CLAIR
  




 52.  WILLIAM PATTON9 FORD ,JR. (LOUISA8 MILLER, ELIZABETH7 WALLEN, JOSEPH6
WALLING, THOMAS5, ELISHA4, THOMAS3 WALLEN II, THOMAS2, RALPH1) was born January
18, 1874 in Scott County, Va., and died January 06, 1951 in Scott County, Va..  
He married (1) ELIZABETH CARTER October 08, 1896 in Scott County, Va..  He
married (2) BETTY RUSSELL 1897.
  Children of WILLIAM FORD and BETTY RUSSELL are:
 79. i. BONNIE10 FORD.
 80. ii. SYDNEY FORD.
 81. iii. WILLY RAY FORD, b. Scott County, Va..
 82. iv. EMMA FORD.
  v. T. M. FORD, m. ANN WAMPLER.
  
  vi. STELLA FORD, m. TOMMY GILREATH.
  
 83. vii. JAMES DUDLEY FORD, b. January 28, 1902, Scott County, Va.; d. March
21, 1976, Sullivan County, Tn..
 84. viii. LELA FORD, b. 1904, Scott County, Va.; d. Sullivan County, Tn..
 85. ix. ELLIS FORD,b. Scott County, Va..
 86. x. HOLLY FORD.
  
  




Offline Niiki

  • Posts: 216
Re: Walter Renz
« Reply #23 on: July 18, 2009, 11:17:01 am »
Generation No. 10

  



 53.  MILAM10 ANDERSON (MINERVA9 BAKER, WALLEN W.8, SUSANNAH7 WALLEN, JAMES
CARR6, JOSEPH5, ELISHA4 WALLING, THOMAS3 WALLEN II, THOMAS2, RALPH1) was born
Abt. 1892.  He married LILLIE MILES, daughter of ROBERT MILES and MARY NOE.
  Children of MILAM ANDERSON and LILLIE MILES are:
  i. OLA11 ANDERSON,  m. GREER.
  
  ii. LOYD ANDERSON
  
  iii. WARD ANDERSON
  
  
 54.  GEORGE10 BELCHER (CAROLINE9 BAKER, WALLEN W.8, SUSANNAH7 WALLEN, JAMES
CARR6, JOSEPH5, ELISHA4 WALLING, THOMAS3 WALLEN II, THOMAS2, RALPH1) was born
1888, and died Unknown.  He married NANCY LACKIE.
  Children of GEORGE BELCHER and NANCY LACKIE are:
  i. DELMER11 BELCHER, m. MILDRED KINSLER
  
  ii. FRED HUGHES BELCHER, b Stonega, Virginia.
  
  iii. TYLER BELCHER.
  
  iv. MARY BELCHER.
  
  v. SOPHIA BELCHER, m. COY SHELTON, Wise County, Virginia.
  
  vi. VERNON BELCHER.
  
   55.  LILY10 BELCHER (CAROLINE9 BAKER, WALLEN W.8, SUSANNAH7 WALLEN, JAMES
CARR6, JOSEPH5, ELISHA4 WALLING, THOMAS3 WALLEN II, THOMAS2, RALPH1) was born
1889, and died Unknown in Stonega, Va..  She married ORVILLE NICHOLS.
  Children of LILY BELCHER and ORVILLE NICHOLS are:
  i. NAN11 NICHOLS, m. DEWEY GALLOWAY, Wise County, Virginia.
  
  ii. MAY NICHOLS, m. EARL WHISTLEHUNT, Wise County, Virginia.
  
  iii. CARRIE NICHOLS, m. IRVING GALLOWAY.
  
  
 56.  MARY DOVIE10 BELCHER (CAROLINE9 BAKER, WALLEN W.8, SUSANNAH7 WALLEN, JAMES
CARR6, JOSEPH5, ELISHA4 WALLING, THOMAS3 WALLEN II, THOMAS2, RALPH1) was born
January 28, 1902 in Sneedsville, Tennessee, and died December 02, 1986 in
Dayton, Ohio.  She married (1) FRED SMITH December 23, 1916 in Wise County,
Virginia, son of WILLIAM SMITH and ELIZABETH ELY.  She married (2) TONEY LEE
GIBSON May 14, 1927 in Lee County, Va., son of JOHN GIBSON and OLIVIA MILES.
  
  
 Notes for TONEY LEE GIBSON:
Toney Lee Gibson and Marlin Dee Gibson were identical twins but celebrated their
birthdays on different dates.  Marlin found out that their birthday was Feb. 6,
1900 instead of March 10, 1899.  Toney refused to change his birthdate and
celebrated his birhday on March 10th.  His tombstone reads March 10, 1899 as his
date of birth.Toney is buried in Bear Creek Cemetery, Dayton, Ohio.
  Children of MARY BELCHER and FRED SMITH are:
  i. WALTER EDGAR11 SMITH, b. September 17, 1917, Artemus, Kentucky; d. May 06,
1991, Big Stone Gap, Virginia; m. (1) BERTHA CHRISTIAN, August 09, 1938, Wise
County, Virginia; m. (2) BETTY JO TRENT, Aft. 1950.
Notes for WALTER EDGAR SMITH:
Walter Edgar is buried in Powell Valley Memorial Gardens, Big Stone Gap, Va.
  ii. JAMES LITTEN SMITH, b. Linden, Virginia; m. THELMA ACKERS,  Kentucky.
  
  iii. ROXIE SMITH, b.  Stonega, Va.; m. CLINT MABE , JR.,  Gate City, Virginia.

Notes for CLINT MABE , JR.:
Clint Mabe, Jr. is buried in Powell Valley Memorial Gardens in Big Stone Gap,
VA.
  iv. MAXEY SMITH, b.  Exeter, Virginia(Wise County); m. (1) WALTER TOMLINSON,  
Wise County, Virginia; m. (2) CONLEY W. LAWSON
Notes for CONLEY W. LAWSON:
Conley William Lawson is buried in Bear Creek Cemetery, Dayton, Ohio.
  
  Children of MARY BELCHER and TONEY GIBSON are:
  v. ETHEL CHRISTINE11 GIBSON, b. April 18, 1930, Stonega, Va.; d. September 03,
1997, Norton, Virginia; m. ARVIL MATTHEW ADDISON, December 03, 1949, Harlan,
Kentucky.
Notes for ETHEL CHRISTINE GIBSON:
Christine was buried in Laurel Grove Cemetery, Norton, Virginia.
Notes for ARVIL MATTHEW ADDISON:
Arvil was buried in Laurel Grove Cemetery, Norton, Virginia.
  vi. TRANSIS EVELYN GIBSON, b.  Stonega, Va..
  
  vii. FRED JUNIOR GIBSON, b. November 19, 1935, Stonega, Va.; d. July 27, 1995,
Dayton, Ohio; m. FAYE JANE LEVY,  Dayton, Ohio.
  
 
 viii. NAVADA IRENE GIBSON, b.  Stonega, Va.; m. JAMES RANDOLPH HEFLIN,
Washington, D.C..
  
  
  
 57.  WILLIAM JESS10 BAKER (ISAAC9, JOHN8, SUSANNAH7 WALLEN, JAMES CARR6,
JOSEPH5, ELISHA4 WALLING, THOMAS3 WALLEN II, THOMAS2, RALPH1) was born February
19, 1889, and died December 30, 1968 in Smyth County, Va..  He married NANCY
ELIZABETH ROGERS.
  Child of WILLIAM BAKER and NANCY ROGERS is:
  i. ELEANORA11 BAKER, b. June 16, 1924; m. WALTER STAPLETON, May 25, 1940.
  
  
 58.  BILL JAY10 BAKER (JOHN9, NOAH8, SUSANNAH7 WALLEN, JAMES CARR6, JOSEPH5,
ELISHA4 WALLING, THOMAS3 WALLEN II, THOMAS2, RALPH1) was born May 16, 1915 in
Tensley, Ky.(Bell County), and died October 05, 1984.  He met (1) RUBY MAE MILLS
HUBBARD.  He met (2) HILIE MILLER.  He married (3) TRESSIE GRAY.
  Child of BILL BAKER and RUBY HUBBARD is:
  i. DORCIL11 BAKER, b.  Kentucky; m. (3) ALEX MAIESE ALBAIR; m. WILLIAM OKELY
HARRISON; m.  WILLIAM LOGAN SHEHAN.
  
  
  Children of BILL BAKER and HILIE MILLER are:
  ii. JERRY11 BAKER  m. CINDY KAWALSKIE.
  
  iii. GENE AUTRY BAKER, b. February 12, 1941; d. April 22, 1996; m. DEWANA
MYER.
  
  
 59.  ELIZA10 WALLEN (JOHN W.9, JAMES8, JOHN J.7, JAMES CARR6, JOSEPH5, ELISHA4
WALLING, THOMAS3 WALLEN II, THOMAS2, RALPH1) was born 1879 in Lee County,
Virginia.  She married (1) HICKSON.  She married (2) JOHN C. WHITE 1900 in Wise
County, Virginia.
  Child of ELIZA WALLEN and JOHN WHITE is:
  i. BARNEY11 WHITE.
  
  
 60.  CHARLES WALLEN10 JR. (CHARLES9 WALLEN, ALFRED8, JAMES F.7, JAMES CARR6,
JOSEPH5, ELISHA4 WALLING, THOMAS3 WALLEN II, THOMAS2, RALPH1).  He married
ARLENE FLAMME
  Children of CHARLES JR. and ARLENE FLAMME are:
  i. BOB11 WALLEN
  
  ii. MIKE WALLEN
  
  iii. TON WALLEN
  
  
 61.  JOSEPH CALLOWAY10 WALLEN (RUFUS ISAAC9, JOSEPH B.8, WILLIAM J.7, JAMES
CARR6, JOSEPH5, ELISHA4 WALLING, THOMAS3 WALLEN II, THOMAS2, RALPH1) was born  
in Hancock County, Tn..  He married SIDNEY ANDERSON
  Child of JOSEPH WALLEN and SIDNEY ANDERSON is:
  i. JOSEPH11 WALLEN.
  
  
 

62.  OVAL JOE10 WALLEN (WILLIAM HENRY9, JOSEPH B.8, WILLIAM J.7, JAMES CARR6,
JOSEPH5, ELISHA4 WALLING, THOMAS3 WALLEN II, THOMAS2, RALPH1) was born 1911, and
died 1967.  He married JUANITA PRICE.
  
  
  Children of OVAL WALLEN and JUANITA PRICE are:
  i. JAY MICHAEL11 WALLEN
  
  ii. JOE E. WALLEN,  m. CYNTHIA JOY ANDERSON
Notes for JOE E. WALLEN:
Joe Wallen is a construction superintendent
  
 63.  JOSEPH EARL10 BISHOP (JAMES CONLEY9, JOSEPH8, ELIZABETH7 WALLEN, JOSEPH6
WALLING, THOMAS5, ELISHA4, THOMAS3 WALLEN II, THOMAS2, RALPH1).  He married
LUCILLE TRENT.
  Child of JOSEPH BISHOP and LUCILLE TRENT is:
  i. MELANE11 BISHOP.
  
  
 64.  WINIFRED HELEN10 BISHOP (JAMES CONLEY9, JOSEPH8, ELIZABETH7 WALLEN,
JOSEPH6 WALLING, THOMAS5, ELISHA4, THOMAS3 WALLEN II, THOMAS2, RALPH1).  She
married DEWARD BELMONT MILLER , son of GEORGE MILLER and LENDY HALL.
  Children of WINIFRED BISHOP and DEWARD MILLER are:
  i. LINDA SHIRLEY11 MILLER, m. GLENN EDWARD WELLS
  ii. MARY NANCY MILLER,  m. (1) JAMES MORELOCK; m. (2) PAUL SURRETT,  m. (3)
DONALD COX,  m. (4) EUGENE COLLINS
  
  iii. RANDY DOUGLAS MILLER,  m. CAROL JEAN MEADE
  
  
 65.  LAURA ALICE10 BAILIE (SARAH JANE9 BISHOP, JOSEPH8, ELIZABETH7 WALLEN,
JOSEPH6 WALLING, THOMAS5, ELISHA4, THOMAS3 WALLEN II, THOMAS2, RALPH1) was born
May 1881 in Virginia.  She married JAMES LILBURN HILL September 12, 1904 in
Scott County, Va..
  Children of LAURA BAILIE and JAMES HILL are:
  i. RAYMOND11 HILL
  
  ii. EMMA JANE HILL
  
  iii. EDGAR H. HILL
  
  iv. BEN TILSON HILL, b. June 02, 1911, Scott County, Va.; d. 1964; m.
ELIZABETH TAYLOR, September 14, 1930, Scott County, Va..
  
  v. ALBERT CLYDE HILL, b. September 13, 1913, Virginia; d. Abt. 1973; m.
CYNTHIA NEELEY.
  
  vi. BONNIE R. HILL, b. June 11, 1916, Duffield, Va.(Scott County); d. November
1997, Coeburn, Va.; m. LACY AUSTIN, October 21, 1939, Scott County, Va..
  
  vii. ORBEN WRIGHT HILL, b. March 16, 1919, Virginia; d. 1996, Baltimore,
Maryland; m. ELOISE MCCONNELL.
  
  viii. MESBY FRANK HILL, b. May 19, 1921, Duffield,  Virginia; d. June 13,
1998, Bloomington, Indiana; m. ELIZABETH IRENE COSBY, March 31, 1955.
  
  
ix. LOU DEMI HILL
  
  
 66.  MAGGIE ALICE10 BISHOP (JOHN SOLOMON9, JOSEPH8, ELIZABETH7 WALLEN, JOSEPH6
WALLING, THOMAS5, ELISHA4, THOMAS3 WALLEN II, THOMAS2, RALPH1) was born November
22, 1877 in Duffield, Va.(Scott County), and died February 04, 1944.  She
married DAVID HENRY DURHAM May 04, 1900.
  Children of MAGGIE BISHOP and DAVID DURHAM are:
  i. ADDIE MARIE11 DURHAM
  ii. GLENNA GERTRUDE DURHAM
  
  iii. SUDIE MAE DURHAM
  
  iv. LESLIE LURAL DURHAM
  
  
 67.  DORA BELLE10 BISHOP (JOHN SOLOMON9, JOSEPH8, ELIZABETH7 WALLEN, JOSEPH6
WALLING, THOMAS5, ELISHA4, THOMAS3 WALLEN II, THOMAS2, RALPH1) was born February
19, 1879 in Duffield, Va.(Scott County), and died April 17, 1958.  She married
HUGH STANLEY GOBBLE October 04, 1900.
  Children of DORA BISHOP and HUGH GOBBLE are:
  i. OMAR CLYDE11 GOBBLE, d. 1924, Virginia.
  
  ii. CLARENCE EUGENE GOBBLE, m. BESSIE KING.
  
  iii. JOHN GLADSTONE GOBBLE, m. (1) IRENE CLEEK; m. (2) BEULAH KELLY.
  
  
 68.  JOHN PROCTOR10 BISHOP (JOHN SOLOMON9, JOSEPH8, ELIZABETH7 WALLEN, JOSEPH6
WALLING, THOMAS5, ELISHA4, THOMAS3 WALLEN II, THOMAS2, RALPH1) was born March
07, 1894 in Duffield, Va.(Scott County), and died October 28, 1970 in Pineville,
Kentucky.  He married BESSIE ELLEN NAPIER.
  Children of JOHN BISHOP and BESSIE NAPIER are:
  i. MARY VIRGINIA11 BISHOP, m. ALAN LEWIS.
  
  ii. JOHN PROCTOR BISHOP , JR., b. Middlesboro, Ky.; m. MAURINA MARSHALL.
  
  iii. CHARLES MASBY BISHOP, b.  Pineville, Kentucky; m. SANDRA JEANNE WILSON
  
  iv. BARBARA ELLEN BISHOP,  m. ORVILLE BRACKETT.
  
  
 69.  OMAR GARRETT10 BISHOP (JOHN SOLOMON9, JOSEPH8, ELIZABETH7 WALLEN, JOSEPH6
WALLING, THOMAS5, ELISHA4, THOMAS3 WALLEN II, THOMAS2, RALPH1) was born April
20, 1896 in Duffield, Va.(Scott County), and died October 09, 1983 in Fort
Pierce, Florida.  He married (1) RUTH KURTZ ELLIS December 04, 1920 in Clinton,
Ohio.  He married (2) LORENA BAKER January 01, 1971 in Fort Pierce, Florida.
  Children of OMAR BISHOP and RUTH ELLIS are:
  i. ELOISE ELIZABETH11 BISHOP, b. Harlan, Kentucky.
  
  ii. JANET CAROLYN BISHOP, b.  Massillon, Ohio; m. JOHN WILLIAM THESING



 70.  JOSIE LILLIAN10 BISHOP (JOHN SOLOMON9, JOSEPH8, ELIZABETH7 WALLEN, JOSEPH6
WALLING, THOMAS5, ELISHA4, THOMAS3 WALLEN II, THOMAS2, RALPH1) was born October
14, 1900 in Duffield, Va.(Scott County).  She married HOP P. BLEDSOE December
28, 1924.
  Children of JOSIE BISHOP and HOP BLEDSOE are:
  i. GLENN CARL11 BLEDSOE
  
  ii. LENA HAZEL BLEDSOE  m. DAN GIBSON.
  
  iii. NORMA JEAN BLEDSOE  m. DICK MOORE.
  
  iv. WILMA GERALDINE BLEDSOE,  m. IRA BROADWATER.
  
  
 71.  WILLIAM HARRISON10 BISHOP (ELIJAH MARTIN9, JOSEPH8, ELIZABETH7 WALLEN,
JOSEPH6 WALLING, THOMAS5, ELISHA4, THOMAS3 WALLEN II, THOMAS2, RALPH1) was born
January 1889 in Scott County, Va., and died 1966.  He married CORA MILLER
September 30, 1912 in Scott County, Va..
  Children of WILLIAM BISHOP and CORA MILLER are:
  i. MADGE G.11 BISHOP,  Scott County, Va.; m. HERBERT L. TAYLOR
  
  ii. AUDIE H. BISHOP, b. Scott County, Va..
  
  iii. CARL E. A. BISHOP, b. Scott County, Va.; m. THERESA FLEENOR,  Scott
County, Va..
  
  iv. OSCAR D. BISHOP, b.  Scott County, Va.; m. MARIE BARRETT, Sullivan County,
Tn..
  
  v. LOUETTA BISHOP, b. Scott County, Va..
  
  vi. PAULENE BISHOP, b. Scott County, Va..
  
  vii. MAUDE BISHOP, b.  Scott County, Va.; m. BROADUS CECIL GILLENWATER
  viii. ORA BISHOP
  
 72.  MAGGIE ALICE10 BISHOP (ELIJAH MARTIN9, JOSEPH8, ELIZABETH7 WALLEN, JOSEPH6
WALLING, THOMAS5, ELISHA4, THOMAS3 WALLEN II, THOMAS2, RALPH1) was born 1897 in
Scott County, Va., and died July 05, 1974.  She married CAMPBELL PATTON HAMMONDS
December 20, 1919 in Scott County, Va..
  Children of MAGGIE BISHOP and CAMPBELL HAMMONDS are:
  i. LINDELL IZETTA11 HAMMONDS, b.  Scott County, Va.; m. EDWARD COUNTS
  
  ii. RALPH MARTIN HAMMONDS, b. September 27, 1925, Scott County, Va.; d.
January 10, 1945.
  
  
 73.  VENUS NANCY10 BISHOP (ELIJAH MARTIN9, JOSEPH8, ELIZABETH7 WALLEN, JOSEPH6
WALLING, THOMAS5, ELISHA4, THOMAS3 WALLEN II, THOMAS2, RALPH1) was born 1899 in
Duffield, Va.(Scott County), and died April 24, 1994 in Miami, Florida.  She
married JAMES CLARK LANE December 12, 1920 in Scott County, Va..
  Children of VENUS BISHOP and JAMES LANE are:
  i. VIVIAN11 LANE, b. Abt. 1920; d. Bef. 1994; m. UNKNOWN HARRISON.
  
  ii. BENNY LANE  m. UNKNOWN MURRAY.
  
 
 iii. MARCETTA LANE, m. UNKNOWN MCCURRY.
  
  
 74.  NOBLE CONLEY10 BISHOP (ELIJAH MARTIN9, JOSEPH8, ELIZABETH7 WALLEN, JOSEPH6
WALLING, THOMAS5, ELISHA4, THOMAS3 WALLEN II, THOMAS2, RALPH1) was born 1906 in
Duffield, Va.(Scott County), and died March 30, 1995 in Duffield, Va.(Scott
County).  He married LUCILLE R. PETERSON April 21, 1931 in Scott County, Va..
  Children of NOBLE BISHOP and LUCILLE PETERSON are:
  i. LETTA11 BISHOP, m. HAROLD KERN.
  
  ii. NELL BISHOP, m. TANKERSLEY.
  
  iii. FRED BISHOP, m. EMOGENE UNKNOWN.
  
  iv. KYLE BISHOP.
  
  v. WAYNE BISHOP.
  
  vi. LARRY BISHOP.
  
  vii. RONALD BISHOP.
  
  viii. BOYD BISHOP.
  
  
 75.  EZRA H.10 BISHOP (ELIJAH MARTIN9, JOSEPH8, ELIZABETH7 WALLEN, JOSEPH6
WALLING, THOMAS5, ELISHA4, THOMAS3 WALLEN II, THOMAS2, RALPH1) was born 1915 in
Virginia, and died Bef. 1995.  He married EDNA MAY KAYLOR.
  Child of EZRA BISHOP and EDNA KAYLOR is:
  i. DAVID11 BISHOP.
  
  
 76.  LE DORA10 WALKER (AMANDA JANE9 FORD, LOUISA8 MILLER, ELIZABETH7 WALLEN,
JOSEPH6 WALLING, THOMAS5, ELISHA4, THOMAS3 WALLEN II, THOMAS2, RALPH1) was born
November 15, 1882 in Scott County, Va., and died January 19, 1953 in Scott
County, Va..  She married SIMON ROBERTS October 14, 1899 in Scott County, Va..
  Children of LE WALKER and SIMON ROBERTS are:
  i. JAY11 ROBERTS, b.  Wise County, Va.; m. LENA BANKS.
  
  ii. ROBERT DEWEY ROBERTS,  Wise County, Va.; m. UNKNOWN GETTIE.
  
  iii. ROSA ROBERTS, b. 1907, Wise County, Va.; d. January 29, 1955; m. CARL
BANKS.
  
  iv. ORA ROBERTS,  Wise County, Va.; m. EDITH CROCKETT.
  
  
 77.  ROSA LEE10 WALKER (AMANDA JANE9 FORD, LOUISA8 MILLER, ELIZABETH7 WALLEN,
JOSEPH6 WALLING, THOMAS5, ELISHA4, THOMAS3 WALLEN II, THOMAS2, RALPH1) was born
June 10, 1886 in Scott County, Va., and died July 06, 1973 in Scott County, Va..
 She married HENRY HARMON MILLER December 10, 1903 in Scott County, Va., son of
FREDRICK MILLER and ETHEL EDWARDS.
  Children of ROSA WALKER and HENRY MILLER are:
  i. KEMP DAVIDSON11 MILLER
  
 

 ii. ADA LITTON MILLER
  
  iii. RUFUS MILLER
  
  iv. WILLIAM DENVER MILLER
  
  v. PEARL ESTELLE MILLER, b. September 14, 1914, Clinchport, Va.; d. February
11, 1998, Sullivan County, Tennessee; m. ROBERT KENDALL ROBERTSON, January 30,
1939, Sullivan County, Tennessee.
  
  
 78.  WILLIAM LEE10 WALKER (AMANDA JANE9 FORD, LOUISA8 MILLER, ELIZABETH7
WALLEN, JOSEPH6 WALLING, THOMAS5, ELISHA4, THOMAS3 WALLEN II, THOMAS2, RALPH1)
was born March 10, 1889 in Scott County, Va., and died September 16, 1941 in
Sullivan County, Tn..  He married (1) FLORENCE MILLER 1909.  He married (2)
MYRTLE CORA KING 1923 in Washington County, Va..  He married (3) NELL
  Children of WILLIAM WALKER and FLORENCE MILLER are:
  i. BONNIE11 WALKER
  
  ii. CLYDE WALKER
  iii. LILIAN BELL WALKER
  
  iv. LUCILLE WALKER
  v. HOMER WALKER
  
  Children of WILLIAM WALKER and MYRTLE KING are:
  vi. JOHN CHARLES11 WALKER, b. July 24, 1924, Wise County, Va.; d. 1994,
Michigan; m. MYRNA JANELLA ROBERTS.
  
  vii. DELLA ESTELLE WALKER, b. Wise County, Va.; m. CHARLES JACKSON SNOW.
  
  
 79.  BONNIE10 FORD (WILLIAM PATTON9, LOUISA8 MILLER, ELIZABETH7 WALLEN, JOSEPH6
WALLING, THOMAS5, ELISHA4, THOMAS3 WALLEN II, THOMAS2, RALPH1).  She married (1)
LEONARD WHITED.  She married (2) FRED MCCONNELL.
  Child of BONNIE FORD and LEONARD WHITED is:
  i. BETTY JANE11 WHITED, m. PAT QUILLEN.
  
  
 80.  SYDNEY10 FORD (WILLIAM PATTON9, LOUISA8 MILLER, ELIZABETH7 WALLEN, JOSEPH6
WALLING, THOMAS5, ELISHA4, THOMAS3 WALLEN II, THOMAS2, RALPH1).  She married
HIRAM FRAZIER.
  Children of SYDNEY FORD and HIRAM FRAZIER are:
  i. JUNE11 FRAZIER.
  
  ii. DON FRAZIER.
  
  
 81.  WILLY RAY10 FORD (WILLIAM PATTON9, LOUISA8 MILLER, ELIZABETH7 WALLEN,
JOSEPH6 WALLING, THOMAS5, ELISHA4, THOMAS3 WALLEN II, THOMAS2, RALPH1) was born
in Scott County, Va..  He married HELEN HALL.
  Child of WILLY FORD and HELEN HALL is:
  i. RAY11 FORD.


82.  EMMA10 FORD (WILLIAM PATTON9, LOUISA8 MILLER, ELIZABETH7 WALLEN, JOSEPH6
WALLING, THOMAS5, ELISHA4, THOMAS3 WALLEN II, THOMAS2, RALPH1).  She married
CLYDE WATTS.
  Children of EMMA FORD and CLYDE WATTS are:
  i. JAMES11 WATTS.
  
  ii. SHIRLEY WATTS.
  
  iii. BRENDA WATTS.
  
  iv. FREDALYN WATTS.
  
  v. WAYNE WATTS.
  
  vi. SANDRA WATTS.
  
  
 83.  JAMES DUDLEY10 FORD (WILLIAM PATTON9, LOUISA8 MILLER, ELIZABETH7 WALLEN,
JOSEPH6 WALLING, THOMAS5, ELISHA4, THOMAS3 WALLEN II, THOMAS2, RALPH1) was born
January 28, 1902 in Scott County, Va., and died March 21, 1976 in Sullivan
County, Tn..  He married (1) MILDRED CANSADA STACY.  He married (2) LOU PEARSON.

  Children of JAMES FORD and MILDRED STACY are:
  i. JACKIE11 FORD.
  
  ii. RALPH HORTON FORD, b. Scott County, Va.; m. FRANCES SMITH.
  
  iii. DOROTHY STELLA FORD, b. Scott County, Va..
  
  iv. MADELINE EUNICE FORD, b. November 13, 1924, Imboden, Va.(Wise County); d.
August 20, 1984, Washington County, Tn..
  
  
 84.  LELA10 FORD (WILLIAM PATTON9, LOUISA8 MILLER, ELIZABETH7 WALLEN, JOSEPH6
WALLING, THOMAS5, ELISHA4, THOMAS3 WALLEN II, THOMAS2, RALPH1) was born in Scott
County, Va., and died in Sullivan County, Tn..  She married BOB GOOD.
  Children of LELA FORD and BOB GOOD are:
  i. NADINE11 GOOD.
  
  ii. O. M. GOOD.
  
  iii. CHARLES GOOD.
  
  iv. HARRY GOOD.
  
  
 85.  ELLIS10 FORD (WILLIAM PATTON9, LOUISA8 MILLER, ELIZABETH7 WALLEN, JOSEPH6
WALLING, THOMAS5, ELISHA4, THOMAS3 WALLEN II, THOMAS2, RALPH1) was born in Scott
County, Va..  He married LILLY BELLE STACY.
  Children of ELLIS FORD and LILLY STACY are:
  i. DERYL11 FORD.
  
  ii. GERALDINE FORD.
  
  iii. BOBBIE FORD.
  
  
iv. CLARA LEE FORD.
  
  v. GHENGIS HOGAN FORD.
  
  vi. WALLY PAT FORD.
  
  
 86.  HOLLY10 FORD (WILLIAM PATTON9, LOUISA8 MILLER, ELIZABETH7 WALLEN, JOSEPH6
WALLING, THOMAS5, ELISHA4, THOMAS3 WALLEN II, THOMAS2, RALPH1).  She met ELLIE
HALL.
  Children of HOLLY FORD and ELLIE HALL are:
  i. BRUCE11 FORD.
  
  ii. FAY FORD.
  
  
« Last Edit: July 23, 2009, 02:45:51 pm by Pat »

Offline educatedindian

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 4628
Re: Walter Renz
« Reply #24 on: July 18, 2009, 02:17:58 pm »
There are some aspects of this thread that disturb me. Notice this board is about plastic shamans. It's not to go after any and all wannabes, since there are millions of them. That would largely be a waste of time. We concentrate on those that can be shown to be harming people.

This isn't a sewerhole like the Indianz.com board, where being the most abusive jerk you can be is rewarded and poses as "freedom of speech." You're expected to be an adult, not talk like a teenager on the school playground acting tough, or Fox News.

If Keely intended to say the racist slur, that only reflects poorly upon her and undercuts her case.

Did you? We don't tolerate bigots of any kind.

I realize since this issue affects you personally, you are understandably angry. But a rant helps no one. Evidence that can't be refuted will make your case more than just getting angry.

Post your evidence and state your case, like you did in the followup email you sent me. But there's no need for personal attacks. I thought about deletting your attack on Nikki, but decided to leave it up since the following posts wouldn't have made sense.

And most important, show evidence (if you have it) that Renz or the MS Shawnee have done any harm. Are they just a heritage group, or people kidding themselves?

Offline Keely

  • Posts: 103
Re: Walter Renz
« Reply #25 on: July 18, 2009, 05:23:59 pm »
Nikki,
If you think for one second that I am any part of any confederacy, and have no voice of my own, then you need to seek professional help... If you think I answer to any confederacy then you need to seek professional help, if you think that any confederacy has any say over what I do, what I think, or how I do it, then you need to seek professional help. The only persons I answer to is my tribal Elders, and they are NOT Seneca nor are they part of the confederacy. So get over yourself, this confederacy you belong to has no control over me, or my people... they are not god.
Now, for this "

Keely, it's apparent that the person who needs to seek professional help is you , who carries on these hateful rants. You have gone off the deep end. And no I have not fallen out of tree, it's called consultation and hearing what others have to have say about this subject within the Six Nations Confederacy who have met Walter and are supporting him. And call our Confederacy down like this, will only get you into a lot trouble as your emails have been forwarded onto those who will take action to put a stop to this. As I suggested and you seem not to take suggestions too well, take this up with Renz directly and not on the internet. As it is now appearing that you are trying to push a land claim in an area that the Shawnee have no territorial or legitimate rights of claim to. If you knew anything about the teachings of Grandmother Moon, you would know that no one can own the land. Therefore all of these land claims are wrong, that nations outside of the Six Nations Confederacy do not have a say, and that the Six Nations Confederacy does have legitimate say and leadership over, you do fall within that jurisdiction, and therefore, don't have a say over any matters or goings on within the area of jurisdiction of the Six Nations Confederacy. The more you post here, the more rope you will be giving yourself with us.


Oneh


Niiki from Tyendinaga Mohawk Territory


From: renzsilver@hotmail.com
To: kdenning@cox.net
Subject: RE: My decent of Blood
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2009 18:38:25 -0400

Keely,
I never said that they offered me a card. I said I told them not to give me one.
Andrew and Darrel are wonderful people. And I am not using there name in a bad way at all. And Your on a path that has caused troubles for the Shawnee since 1800's. The Longtail land is under the Absentee Shawnee Tribe control.
I am not out to make fame or money from my ancestory.
And I did not say your family was Wallen. That was the name that was used here to hide the family. There is an article in the Toledo Blade. That a reporter came to the Wallen Cabin knowing that William was a Shawnee Chief. They would not open the door to speak with the reporter.
Your a researcher. Lets see if you can find that.
I have spent most of my life to benefit others. Not to harm people.
 
I wish you well. And take care.
Walter
 



You dont get it do you Nikki. I am not of the six confederated nations, they have no say over me, my family or my tribe. Elders of my tribe has been following this issue and think it is quite funny that you feel the six nations has some kind of power over all that is... and they dont. So if you want the six nations to come and get me, tell them to bring it on! We are waiting.... and waiting... and waiting....

Now you made a choice to post all this stuff on the Wallen family, as you copied and pasted someone elses research and did not post a link nor give the author credit, and make no doubt that I do believe Walter is from the Wallens, his mother's maiden name is Wallen, and with Walters supposed research, his mom is a full blood...

Now lets argue Walter, and his claims, not someone elses genealogy work, this issue is about Walter.

Here is the link to Walter's claims:
http://genforum.genealogy.com/cgi-bin/print.cgi?wallen::983.html

Here is what that site reads:
Posted By: WALTER RENZ
 Email: 
 Subject: Re: Arkansas and Ohio Wallens
 Post Date: February 17, 2008 at 22:25:44
 Message URL: http://genforum.genealogy.com/wallen/messages/983.html
 Forum: Wallen Family Genealogy Forum
 Forum URL: http://genforum.genealogy.com/wallen/


 William Henry Wallen /Abraham Longtail Born 1844 died 1912 from falling out of hay mouh on to pile of bricks. Packed with sand bags died from complications.
1st wife Sarah Baker
childern
Luther Wallen
Elizabeth Wallen

2nd Wife Elizabeth Edwards/Eliza Tignor Both are barried in Belmore,Ohio east Grave yard.


Sarah J. Wallen Shawnee full blood born 6/7/1870-died 6/13/1913 married to a Richard Johnson

Mary Edith Wallen Shawnee full blood born 7/31/1871 married 11-22-1887 Charles Frayer

Martha J. Wallen Shawnee full blood born 8/1/1872 died 7/24/1901 married to Hampton Hurd 2nd husband Thomas Johnson

Cora Dell Wallen Shawnee full blood born 2/19/1873 died 9/31/1904 married 7-26-1893 Frank Baker

Charles Chester Wallen Shawnee full blood born 2/19/1873-died 4/24/1873 twin to Cora Dell Wallen

Thomas Franklin Wallen Shawnee full blood born 4/22/1874-died 4/4/1898 teacher and writer life farming

Melinda Wallen Shawnee full blood born 6/6/1875-died 3/22/1936 married to Burdine D. Fisher

William Silas Wallen (AKA William Henry) Will Longtail Shawnee full blood born 1/15/1876 married to Pearl Stafforf 4/26/1902 spent time publishing the books of those that wrote them.

John Walter Wallen (Henry Longtail) Shawnee full blood Chief born 10/23/1877 died 1/2/1920 Married to Nina Pearl Foster(AOHMX-She is wise) Sarah Biggs on 12/14/1898c teacher, doctor, and hay and grain sales
Children
Isaac Leland Wallen (Isaac Longtail) Shawnee full blood Chief born 11/7/1903 died 9/15/1980 married to a Lovie May (Mae) Mapes (LOVE OF MAY) Shawnee full blood born 5/10/1903 died 56/1987
Children
Eldo Dwight Wallen /Fox Longtail Shawnee full blood Sub Chief born 12/7/1925 died 7/19/2007

Lawrence Leland Wallen /Sparrow Longtail Shawnee full blood born 3/29/1930 died 6/28/2007

Virginia Carol Wallen /Mother Buffalo Longtail Shawnee full blood born 7/19/1940 married to Arnold Renz in 10/7/1956

 


 
Now, lets look at the first person, Abraham Longtail aka Jake, Walter claims that he was born 1844 and died in 1912 after falling onto a pile of bricks...
Now turn your attention to Abrahams son, Henry, he claims Henry born 1877 died 1920....  and while we are doing this, remember that Walter claims this family left the Shawnee tribe, to start their "own tribe" called the Morning Star Shawnee. What facts has Walter produced for these claims? None... not one claim is documented.

Other researchers have documented this exact Wallen line, with one exception, they do not make the claim that this family is Indian, the reality of the situation is that this Wallen line is exact, except for the claims that they are the Longtail family....

Now I produce to you several links, of which you can go to, that are documentations of the Abraham Longtail family, the REAL family.
From the University of Oklahoma, Henry Longtail's own words of his family that is on the collection held at OU

http://digital.libraries.ou.edu/whc/duke/transcripts/T-360-2.pdf

I cannot copy and paste this into the window, it is in PDF format... but if you read this, you will see it is a interview of Henry Longtail dated December 26, 1968, now remember, Walter claims Henry died in 1920.... I am sure that John Walter Wallen was born in 1877 and died in 1920, but he is not Henry Longtail... here is Henry Longtail's Social Security Death Index information

Name: Henry Longtail
SSN: 447-18-0879 
Last Residence: 74301  Vinita, Craig, Oklahoma, United States of America
Born: 24 May 1904
Last Benefit: 74301  Vinita, Craig, Oklahoma, United States of America
Died: Jan 1985
State (Year) SSN issued: Oklahoma (Before 1951)

Abraham Longtail was married once, his wife was Amanda they had 12 children. Most are buried in the Longtail Cemetery, that is where Abraham and Amanda are both buried at, this refutes Walters claim that Abraham aka Jake is buried in Ohio. The cemetery is in the link I provided from the OU Collections.
You will also be able to read that Abraham aka Jake, got sick and died, I am sure William Henry Wallen did fall onto a pile of bricks in 1912, died and is buried in Ohio, but not Jake, he did not die until 1941, and he is burried in Longtail Cemetery in Oklahoma.

My family is in the 1857 Shawnee Census in Kansas, Starting with John Longtail age 45, his wife Elizabeth age 40, and their children Martha age 18, Mary age 12, Sarah age 10, Stephen age 8, Anna age 4, Jane age 3 and Abraham age 15 months.

Someone may comment that Jake's headstone on his grave reads he was born in 1847, but the headstone is old and was read wrong on the date of birth because we have the 1857 Kansas census to correct the time when he was born. This is not a uncommon mistake when in these old cemeteries.

 Here is a link to the 1857 but you must be a member of Ancestry to view these records:
http://search.ancestry.com/iexec/?htx=View&r=an&dbid=1088&iid=ks1856_1-0627&fn=James&ln=Longtail&st=r&ssrc=&pid=7576979

Now, there are other records in the OU collection that refers to the Longtail family:

http://digital.libraries.ou.edu/whc/duke/transcript.asp?tID=516&sID=0

http://digital.libraries.ou.edu/whc/duke/transcript.asp?tID=533&sID=0

http://digital.libraries.ou.edu/whc/duke/transcript.asp?tID=591&sID=0

http://digital.libraries.ou.edu/whc/duke/transcript.asp?tID=426&sID=0

http://digital.libraries.ou.edu/whc/duke/transcript.asp?tID=707&sID=0

http://digital.libraries.ou.edu/whc/duke/transcript.asp?tID=614&sID=0

The only thing that is true about the Longtail family that Walter wrote, is that they are full blood Shawnees.

Now, Al feels that Walter is not hurting anyone, but he, and his group is selling items online as Indian made, that is in violation of the Indian arts and crafts act of 1990.. to which, action is currently being taken, I cannot discuss what all is happening, but I have not sat by with idle hands. So there are people who have purchased items from these people and has been defrauded.

And my family is a victim here, our ancestors are not being allowed to rest in peace, this is a horrible thing to do to anyones ancestor...

Special attention Nikki... I was able to find one person with the name of Longtail in WWI records from Wisconsin, he is listed in the draft records as Indian, but he is NOT a member of my family... his tribe is not listed, but we do not know who he is...





Offline Moma_porcupine

  • Posts: 684
  • I love YaBB 1G - SP1!
Re: Walter Renz
« Reply #26 on: July 19, 2009, 03:28:49 am »
educatedindian
Quote
Notice this board is about plastic shamans. It's not to go after any and all wannabes, since there are millions of them. That would largely be a waste of time. We concentrate on those that can be shown to be harming people.

I guess if you haven't personally had a bad experience with people who aren't who they claim, these folks may seem nothing more than foolish, but from what i have seen , people making false claims do hurt people.

I don't know the person this thread is discussing, but generally speaking, if  people know the truth and are living a lie,  anyone who threatens to expose the truth will be seen as an enemy and undermined and discredited. ( Such as someone who really is from the tribe that is being falsly claimed ) Whether or not anyone is seriously hurt all depends on the situation. Vulnerable people can be really seriously impacted by what these people can do to protect their NDN identity from being exposed as a lie.

This discrediting and undermining can happen to individuals or tribal authorities who do not support these peoples imagined identities.

I don't think all the people who wrongly claim an Indian identity are liars or bad people. Sometimes they got told this by trusted family members who got a story mixed up. I think it often happened there was a relative by marriage somewhere back there who gets wrongly understood to be an ancestor . Sometimes these stories seem to have got started with earlier versions of todays wannabes - like Grey Owl . Sometimes it seems little children were told they were Indian because it was safer than being identified as mulatto or an illegal immigrant of color. And lately it seems a lot of people are rewriting their family histories just because they wannabe Indian . When false genealogical information gets posted on line,  hundreds of related people then get the information they are really Native people when this just isn't true. If this isn't corrected some of these people will pass this on to their children and grandchildren. As these false genealogies and histories often get circulated with stories of how these people have been denied their rights as NDN people, these people do create a lot of problems. 

However these stories and false identities get started , when people who believe this have to face the truth - especially if they or their parents or grandparents have been accepted into a Native community that gave them the benifit of the doubt , or in some way this has become an important part of their identity , that also can be totally devastating. ( and I have seen that happen )

Lies are funny things in that they don't always hurt people right away , and sometimes believing in a lie may even help someone over a real rough spot in their lives, but believing in the truth is always a lot safer and and stabler . So as i see it there is a very real public interest in correcting genealogical misinformation . But I agree being polite is important.  Even when people really don't deserve it. (and yeah I notice some people really don't)  Speaking the truth to someone who's identity is based in a lie is inflamatory enough . 

Sorry if this is somewhat off topic, but i do understand why Keeley wants to address this .  IMO incorrect genealogical information does need to be challenged, and is often the basis of a lot of the other types of cultural abuse and a false sense of being entitled to do this - which is at the bottom of much of what gets discussed here.
« Last Edit: July 19, 2009, 03:56:21 am by Moma_porcupine »

Offline Niiki

  • Posts: 216
Re: Walter Renz
« Reply #27 on: July 19, 2009, 04:15:31 am »
educatedindian

Sorry if this is somewhat off topic, but i do understand why Keeley wants to address this .  IMO incorrect genealogical information does need to be challenged, and is often the basis of a lot of the other types of cultural abuse and a false sense of being entitled to do this - which is at the bottom of much of what gets discussed here.

   I have heard that Keely herself is not who she has led people to believe on line. Stayed tuned for more information on who Keely is. Keely, when you point a finger of judgement at someone, there are always 3 fingers pointing back at you. By the judgement that you put out on Renz, the same judgement will come back at you. I certainly hope you are prepared for the backlash that is coming your way. I tried to warn you , and you have refused to listen. Therefore I do not have any sympathy for you .


Oneh


Niiki from Tyendinaga Mohawk Territory


Offline Keely

  • Posts: 103
Re: Walter Renz
« Reply #28 on: July 19, 2009, 05:39:14 am »
educatedindian

Sorry if this is somewhat off topic, but i do understand why Keeley wants to address this .  IMO incorrect genealogical information does need to be challenged, and is often the basis of a lot of the other types of cultural abuse and a false sense of being entitled to do this - which is at the bottom of much of what gets discussed here.

   I have heard that Keely herself is not who she has led people to believe on line. Stayed tuned for more information on who Keely is. Keely, when you point a finger of judgement at someone, there are always 3 fingers pointing back at you. By the judgement that you put out on Renz, the same judgement will come back at you. I certainly hope you are prepared for the backlash that is coming your way. I tried to warn you , and you have refused to listen. Therefore I do not have any sympathy for you .


Oneh


Niiki from Tyendinaga Mohawk Territory



Good grief Nikki... I dont want your sympathy! All I would like to have had is a little understanding as to why this person is causing so much pain to my family...

I find it really funny that someone would contact you with doubts about me, so let me help you out, because I am sure you are going to get some what false information about me...

My mother died in February. There are some who saved her online obituary... My real parents divorced with I was four years old, my mother re-married in the 1970's and therefore, her married name is not my maiden name. Do you understand that?

My father was murdered in Vinita, Oklahoma in 1992, his name was Lemuel Charley Squirrel. His parents were Isaac Squirrel and Ela Charley Squirrel. Isaacs mother was Anna Longtail.

My family owns Charley Cemetery where my dad, my grandparents and other family members are buried at. The cemetery carries the seal of the Shawnee tribe. All people in our cemetery are Indian. All are related except for one, a young boy who drowned, his family to poor to afford a burial ground for him and we donated a place for him to rest.

My family also owns Longtail cemetery where my family is burried as well. There are Squirrels and Charleys in the Longtail cemetery, and Squirrels in the Charley cemetery.

My grandmother, Ela, was full blood Shawnee from the Absentee Shawnee. My grandfather was a full blood from the Loyal Shawnee.

I am enrolled in a federally recognized tribe. I carry a CNO tribal enrollment card, and a CDIB card. I carry a CNO card because my tribe was adopted by them, and Bill Clinton, as one of his last acts as president, signed a separation of my tribe from the CNO, at that signing, my Uncle was tribal chairman. I did not move my membership from the CNO, I was going to, but now, due to political problems in the tribe, I am glad that I did not move my membership from the CNO.

My photograph is online... I have never hidden who I am...

My Uncle is a well known honored Elder of our tribe. He is honored by many people of many tribes. Many people on many message boards know me personally, some are related to me, and even more know my family.

So, just what would you like to know about me Nikki? What is there left to tell you?

I will tell you Nikki, when my mother passed last February, she was not sick, she was at her hair dressers getting her hair done when she was stricken down. Her death was very hard on my family.. then to read about busy bodies out there who suddenly thought they had some kind of magical information on me when they got my step dads name, they really thought they knew something.. but the joke was on them.

But Nikki, I dont have to prove myself to you, I only give you the information about my family because I really feel that you should have the correct information, lord knows, enough false information has been going around about my family.

Thank you for reading this.


Offline Niiki

  • Posts: 216
Re: Walter Renz
« Reply #29 on: July 19, 2009, 12:25:00 pm »
educatedindian

Sorry if this is somewhat off topic, but i do understand why Keeley wants to address this .  IMO incorrect genealogical information does need to be challenged, and is often the basis of a lot of the other types of cultural abuse and a false sense of being entitled to do this - which is at the bottom of much of what gets discussed here.

   I have heard that Keely herself is not who she has led people to believe on line. Stayed tuned for more information on who Keely is. Keely, when you point a finger of judgement at someone, there are always 3 fingers pointing back at you. By the judgement that you put out on Renz, the same judgement will come back at you. I certainly hope you are prepared for the backlash that is coming your way. I tried to warn you , and you have refused to listen. Therefore I do not have any sympathy for you .


Oneh


Niiki from Tyendinaga Mohawk Territory



Good grief Nikki... I dont want your sympathy! All I would like to have had is a little understanding as to why this person is causing so much pain to my family...

I find it really funny that someone would contact you with doubts about me, so let me help you out, because I am sure you are going to get some what false information about me...

My mother died in February. There are some who saved her online obituary... My real parents divorced with I was four years old, my mother re-married in the 1970's and therefore, her married name is not my maiden name. Do you understand that?

My father was murdered in Vinita, Oklahoma in 1992, his name was Lemuel Charley Squirrel. His parents were Isaac Squirrel and Ela Charley Squirrel. Isaacs mother was Anna Longtail.

My family owns Charley Cemetery where my dad, my grandparents and other family members are buried at. The cemetery carries the seal of the Shawnee tribe. All people in our cemetery are Indian. All are related except for one, a young boy who drowned, his family to poor to afford a burial ground for him and we donated a place for him to rest.

My family also owns Longtail cemetery where my family is burried as well. There are Squirrels and Charleys in the Longtail cemetery, and Squirrels in the Charley cemetery.

My grandmother, Ela, was full blood Shawnee from the Absentee Shawnee. My grandfather was a full blood from the Loyal Shawnee.

I am enrolled in a federally recognized tribe. I carry a CNO tribal enrollment card, and a CDIB card. I carry a CNO card because my tribe was adopted by them, and Bill Clinton, as one of his last acts as president, signed a separation of my tribe from the CNO, at that signing, my Uncle was tribal chairman. I did not move my membership from the CNO, I was going to, but now, due to political problems in the tribe, I am glad that I did not move my membership from the CNO.

My photograph is online... I have never hidden who I am...

My Uncle is a well known honored Elder of our tribe. He is honored by many people of many tribes. Many people on many message boards know me personally, some are related to me, and even more know my family.

So, just what would you like to know about me Nikki? What is there left to tell you?

I will tell you Nikki, when my mother passed last February, she was not sick, she was at her hair dressers getting her hair done when she was stricken down. Her death was very hard on my family.. then to read about busy bodies out there who suddenly thought they had some kind of magical information on me when they got my step dads name, they really thought they knew something.. but the joke was on them.

But Nikki, I dont have to prove myself to you, I only give you the information about my family because I really feel that you should have the correct information, lord knows, enough false information has been going around about my family.

Thank you for reading this.



Keely says she is Shawnee all her life but this this is what she says in 2002:

Keely Squirrel-Denning:
Enrolled Cherokee Nation, Oklahoma
 
 

An American Indian's View of 'Thanksgiving'
"Some people view 'thanksgiving'
as a white holiday..but it's not."
Guest column by Keely Denning
NAIIP News Path ~ Tuesday, November 4, 2002
Copyright © K.Denning
All Rights Reserved
 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Some people may view "thanksgiving" as a white people holiday.. but its not. It is
saddened that the holiday has been twisted with the Indian/Pilgrim story... and it is
even sadder that people use this holiday as a protest to Columbus coming here.. lets
face it, Columbus was not at the "first" thanksgiving dinner... And lets use this
holiday for political protests... gee how wonderful for the true meaning of thanksgiving..
 
SO what is thanksgiving? My tribe had this celebration long before white man ever came
to this country. It is actually a celebration of harvest. No, the Indians didn't have
it every third week in November, they had the celebration when the harvest was done,
nothing was more valuable as food. Winter was hard to survive. Eating has always been
a very important thing to the Indian people, all Indians. SO these Indians had taught
those new white people how to plant, how to harvest, and how to celebrate. How were
these Indians supposed to know these white people were going to turn on them? It is not
for you nor I to speculate. But I feel it is a great insult to those tribes who
celebrate harvest, and to the memory of those who all came together on not just a day of
celebration, but a week...
I don't know about anyone else... but I am tired of seeing a VERY traditional harvest
celebration torn apart, ridiculed, nitpicked, insulted, and political protests used
against something that someone has no understanding of.
 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Keely Squirrel-Denning, an enrolled member of the Cherokee Nation, Oklahoma, can be reached by e-mail.

And she was looking around for her ancestors in 2004, when she claims she knows who she was all of her life:

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--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
of http://www.thepeoplespaths.net/News2002/0211/KDenning021105viewthanksgiving.htm

Charley's of Oklahoma:
October 14, 2003
My husband is a descendant of Little Charley, Mark Charley,& Eugene Charley. They are
from the Little Axe area in Oklahoma. They are Absentee Shawnee. Any connection?

Keely Denning wrote: http://genforum.genealogy.com/charley/messages/63.html

Would like to know more of your Charley's, I am the great grandaughter of Sam Charley
and Betsy Panther Charley. I believe Sam to be the son of Delaware Charley, their
daughter Eli married Isaac Squirrel who was Shawnee. kdenning@cox.net
December 13, 2004


Oneh


Niiki from Tyendinaga Mohawk Territory