Author Topic: Panache Desai?  (Read 49636 times)

Shanda Lear

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Panache Desai?
« on: March 14, 2005, 08:28:38 am »
Does anyone know of Panache Desai and/or "Spiritual Attunements" in Woodland Hills, CA?  

Something about him/it doesn't sit right with me...

Thanks!

Offline educatedindian

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Re: Panache Desai?
« Reply #1 on: March 15, 2005, 02:31:38 am »
With a name like his, I can't blame you for being cynical. And one pretty pretentious intro to his site. I've gone through the whole site and still have no idea what he does or who he is or claims to be. He's even got his clients talking the same way..."I am now holding a higher frequency while recovering from breast cancer..."

?!

He claims to be trained by someone named Marlisle, the founder of "Awakened Life Healing." But there's no sign I can find of her or that either, or anything similarly named. The program/whatever-it-is used buzzwords common to both "lightworkers" and Kabbalah, but no exact match. Desai seems to be a fairly common East Indian name, but a first name of Panache?

The guy either goes out of his way to be mysterious, or has only been around a short time. I can't even find other sites that link to him. What was it about him that struck you as suspicious?

Shanda Lear

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Re: Panache Desai?
« Reply #2 on: March 16, 2005, 06:20:45 pm »
Thanks for the response.  I can't find anything about him either.  What made me suspicious is the pat, rehearsed statements and answers...nothing I don't already know and have known during my many years of living.  He had people that obviously hang on his every word and are his "flock"...I was new to the group and he seemed somewhat weirded out having a new person..he even told us where to sit...control?  I went on the recommendation of someone who has "studied" with him before.  Who is this guy?  What is his background?  But I went ahead based on the recommendation.  Was told it was Native American healing with blankets and sage, and turned out to be another kind of Indian - that was fine, but we had to sit in a very cramped, airless room on the worst metal chairs ever.   And I have back problems.  No bathroom break for 2 1/2 hours.   Did this guy take EST?  

There is more to the story but too long to go into here.  Sometimes you just have to go on a "gut" reaction, which I have since this first (and my last) "workshop."  It was not cheap, either, and its too late to stop payment on the check!    Buyer beware of self-styled gurus!

Offline educatedindian

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Re: Panache Desai?
« Reply #3 on: March 16, 2005, 11:07:50 pm »
You might try the author of this website for some answers.

http://www.globalserve.net/~sarlo/Map.htm

I've written to him before, and he's a sincere enough Hinduism believer who takes seriously the questions of abuse by gurus, self styled or otherwise. He'd be able to tell you if what "Panache" peddles actually has anything to do with the faith, and might know of ethical complaints against the guru that we don't know of.

As far as your lost money, I always tell people to sue, go to small claims court. If what he claims is deceptive, like claliming to be one type of Indian when he's the other, you have a legit case. If you don't act, there's nothing to stop him from doing the same to others.

And you might also ask the local papers or news stations to investigate.

Shanda Lear

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Re: Panache Desai?
« Reply #4 on: March 19, 2005, 08:11:16 pm »
Thanks for that link...I will follow up.

I have requested a full refund from this guy...talk about a case of Buyer Beware!!!!

Shanda Lear

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Re: Panache Desai?
« Reply #5 on: March 20, 2005, 08:24:13 pm »
I have made contact with Mr. Desai and am getting a full refund.  

Thanks to everyone for your comments and information.

Offline educatedindian

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Re: Panache Desai?
« Reply #6 on: September 03, 2008, 05:05:32 am »
Hi everyone. In a few days I'll be back to posting regularly. In the meantimes here's a series of emails from PD's lawyer, with the usual empty threats to sue. Seems they are determined to shut down any criticism. Good for a laugh at how dense his counsel is, and how she has now drawn much more attention to the very criticism they were trying to silence.

So without any further ado, here's Lawyer Barbie, giving PD's side of the story. Then me, then her again, then me again.

------------------------


--- On Fri, 8/29/08, Panache Desai <webmaster@panachedesai.com> wrote:

From: Panache Desai <webmaster@panachedesai.com>
Subject: Re: Panache Desai

Date: Friday, August 29, 2008, 11:52 AM

Dear Sir/ Madam,

Shanda Lear posted her experience of coming to see my client Panache Desai in 2005 and it was exactly that, her experience. Panache is not a guru and has never claimed to be he is just a man who has a gift to share. Yes his name is Panache and is actually French in origin. Panache was never trained by anyone named Marlise and has never claimed to be. I find the whole thing defamatory and not at all based in-fact. He is not Native American and has never claimed to be a Shaman. I find her post and the way that you handled the whole thing to be unloving and completely not in alignment with the Native American tradition. I would like it removed from your website and in the event that it is not I will be forced to take the appropriate legal action. Shanda Lear was offered a full refund and to have Panache associated with your site is truly sad in light of all of the good work he does to help the many thousands of people who come to see him.

Yours Sincerely,

Barbie Baylis
Attorney At Law

http://www.newagefraud.org/smf/index.php?topic=176.0

----------------


My answer:


Dear sir or madam,
 
There is nothing even remotely "defamatory" in the thread you refer to. A former client of yours asked for information and told about her own experience. We offered what little we were able to find out and referred her to someone more knowledgable.
 
Your demand that we remove her posts amounts to a very silly attempt at intimidation in order to prevent anyone seeing criticism. We receive empty threats to sue about once a month, and know very well that they will come to nothing. Criticism is not "defamatory."
 
Also, obviously there was something to her criticism since she received a refund.
 
If you wish, I can repost the email you've sent below, so anyone reading the thread will have the benefit of hearing both sides about this Frenchman posing as a Hindu guru.
 
And obviously you don't know a thing about Native traditionS (plural) outside of New Age cliches. You come off as very condescending and bordering on racist when you presume to lecture Native people about Native traditions.
 
The most obvious sign you know nothing about us or our ways is that you would assume Natives are one big generic people or culture, instead of hundreds just in the US alone.
 
Tell you what: We know better than to lecture people about Hinduism. Time for you to learn to do the same about Native people.


----------------------------

Lawyer Barbie


--- On Sun, 8/31/08, Panache Desai <webmaster@panachedesai.com> wrote:

From: Panache Desai <webmaster@panachedesai.com>
Subject: Re: Panache Desai

Date: Sunday, August 31, 2008, 1:54 PM

Dear Sir or Madam,

Thank you for your prompt response.

In law, defamation (also called calumny, libel, slander, and vilification) is the communication of a statement that makes a false claim, expressly stated or implied to be factual, that may give an individual, business, product, group, government or nation a negative image.

This was clearly an attempt to portray Panache in a negative light and therefore under law is grounds for defamation.

Even if it were criticism as you call it then under the legal definition it would fall under destructive criticism and would still present us with an avenue for legal restitution as in law it amounts defamation.

Destructive criticism is intended to harm someone, derogate and destroy someone’s creation, prestige, reputation and self-esteem on whatever level it might be. This may be done intentionally or out of sheer ignorance and foolishness. Hence the word destructive is used. In practical life destructive criticism may be disguised as constructive to be more painful while harming. Valid examination of intention of critic is when asked to prove, to help or to be somewhat useful at all. Often destructive criticism comes from persons who are envious, cruel and those who judges in fields which are not their own.

I am sorry for any offending you and would never assume to lecture Native people about Native traditions.

I wanted to give you an opportunity to resolve this issue.

However I am left with no choice but to pursue an appropriate course of legal action.

Yours Sincerely,

Barbie Baylis
Attorney At Law

http://www.newagefraud.org/smf/index.php?topic=176.0


--------------------

My answer:

Oh brother.

For an attorney, you sure don't seem to know the most basic law.

And you also don't even seem to be paying attention to much of what was in my prior email, or on the thread at NAFPS.

To start with, no one at NAFPS made ANY statement about your Frenchman claiming to be a Hindu healer. The statements were made by someone who briefly visited our site, and is no longer a member of our board.

I suggest you take up your case with them instead of making yourself look even more foolish and ignorant than you already have.

While I appreciate your apology on one matter, it has [not] prevented you from making another grave error.

I am NOT the person who made the post, nor the person who received a refund from Panache Desai.

I suggest you take up your alleged case of "defamation" with that person, and that person alone, before you wind up before a judge who asks you why you are wasting the court's time suing the wrong person.

Your emails will be posted on the thread in question. Readers of the thread will thus have the opportunity to hear Panache Desai's side, as well as to see how inattentive his counsel is of the most basic facts.

Offline Superdog

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Re: Panache Desai?
« Reply #7 on: September 03, 2008, 03:10:19 pm »
Geez.....did Barbie even READ this thread before she fired that e-mail off???  Man.  He's totally off topic to this board anyway.  A GUEST logged in and asked a question and you gave an opinion of the info on his website and she thinks she has grounds to sue you??? 

Geez.....Panache should read this....buyer beware of lawyers named Barbie!!

;)

Just keep doin' what your doin.  If you're gettin' people to hear a 28 year old talk in a cramped room for 2 1/2 hours straight without a bathroom break then it must be quite a show.  You'd think for that much money you'd at least get a cushion.  ;)
At least Shanda got a refund.

Offline cowboy261

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Re: Panache Desai?
« Reply #8 on: September 03, 2008, 08:35:10 pm »
wow this panache Desai guy sounds like a pretty awsome guy I googled him and he has an awsome web site  I've looked though like 5 pages of people regarding him highly and this is the first thing I have seen negitive about him

Um wow holding going to the bathroom for 2 1/2 hour what does this lady have a urinary infection
Secondly it's sorts stupid that she even posted this thing in the first place I mean she had to post it on some fraud sight. It's not like he stole ur identity or anything.

What is EST and were can I buy some

frederica

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Re: Panache Desai?
« Reply #9 on: September 04, 2008, 03:21:15 am »
Some Psychiatric Hospitals still use EST (Electro-Shock Therapy).  Used mostly for unresponsive Depression.  But I  don't think you want to buy it.

Offline matt e

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Re: Panache Desai?
« Reply #10 on: September 10, 2008, 08:14:32 am »
funny, a lawyer sending a message from their clients email address? hmm.

 even if this person had a lawyer on staff, I would think they would have their own email address, and not have to use the default (webmaster@.........com)  hmmm

I think a real lawyer would have sent an actual letter of demand.

therefore not a real lawyer.

 By the way, that particular law does not apply to public figures or people in the public eye, such as religious leaders, politicians, actors/actresses etc. and as the only thing mentioned on this forum was the personal opinion of someone who alegedly attended  a meeting of this religious leader, and the opinions of those who responded to that persons opinion based on available information. 

 Nothing to sue over.  my opinion,- no grounds for a suit, barbie is not a real lawyer. panache is up to something crooked in one way or the other based on the response from "barbie" if he wasn't. he could have came on himself and responded that it was just a misunderstanding. now if anyone searches for him, this will eventually show up in the results and make anyone considering joining him reconsider.

 
feel free to share any post I make as long as you give me credit. I want everyone to know who to send the hate mail to.

Offline ska

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Re: Panache Desai?
« Reply #11 on: September 11, 2008, 02:47:36 am »
Hi Frederica

EST also refers to "Erhard seminar training" which was popular in the late 70s and early 80s.  It's another one of those new age personal transformation regimens.  You know the deal - give  thousands of dollars (or hundreds, dunno really)  in exchange for a weekend or two of "intensive training".  The intensity seems to be based on the use of cult-y practices like sleep deprivation, hunger, etc.

ska

Offline zoi lightfoot

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Re: Panache Desai?
« Reply #12 on: September 11, 2008, 12:42:03 pm »
Dispite the odd termination,Barbie Baylis is most certainly a real attorney.......Though last i heard was working with and being a legal panalist on some music industry thing.

Offline Moma_porcupine

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Re: Panache Desai?
« Reply #13 on: September 11, 2008, 01:34:40 pm »
Yup , a google search shows there is a real attorney named Barbie Baylis .

http://www.yogilawyer.com/

Quote
The Law Offices of Barbara R. Baylis, Esq. specializes in legal and business matters in the music and entertainment industries and new media distribution of music and entertainment products and services.  For more information and inquiries, please contact us at info@yogilawyer.com.

Namaste

And this is mentioned on other websites.

Quote
Attorneys | Berschback Duff Attorney at Law, Nashville, TN Barbie Baylis Attorney, LaPolt Law Duff Berschback Entertainment Attorney ... Candace Corrigan Songwriter and creator, "The Nashville . ...
www.lawyerintl.com/ attorney-253135-Berschback%20Duff%20Attorney%20at%20Law/

The yogi lawyer title and word Namaste suggest this person might be involved in East Indian Spiritual practices -

I'm not a lawyer but the threat of a law suit because some people publicly discuss their discomfort with her clients position of public trust and Spiritual leadership seems completely off the wall.  Isn't this about the same as if the Anglican leaders who perform gay marriages threatened to sue the other Anglicans who publicly say performing gay marriage is wrong ?

I really have to wonder if this email was actually writen by Barbie Baylis, as it seems a person with any legal training would know that public discussion of public figures on matters of public interest is not grounds for a law suit unless something that was said was blatently untrue .

I agree with Matt. If this email was really written by Barbie, it seems odd it was sent from their clients email account and not their own.

« Last Edit: September 11, 2008, 01:59:18 pm by Moma_porcupine »

Offline Defend the Sacred

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Re: Panache Desai?
« Reply #14 on: September 11, 2008, 08:35:19 pm »
Mysterious Maybe-Barbie Maybe-Not-Barbie wrote:
Quote
I find her post and the way that you handled the whole thing to be unloving and completely not in alignment with the Native American tradition.

And since when is being "unloving" grounds for legal action?

I'm waiting for someone to tell me I'm not "loving enough" to be... I don't know, Irish?

Sorry, you're too "unloving" to be NDN.

*snerk*

ETA: A hypothetical here: Someone with a major control case, and a sense of entitlement and power over their followers, might ask one of those followers to write a letter, then demand to send it themselves after rewriting it a bit.
« Last Edit: September 11, 2008, 08:39:54 pm by Kathryn NicDh? na »