another wannabe group in Pa/NJ

[ndn_proud]

whitepathsociety.org

  A friend of mine was at some of their "ceremonies", mostly all white, equipt with a "magic Man", mixed Sweats, and collection of "tax exempt donations"

[frederica]

http://www.whitepathsociety.org/                                                                  I seen before that it has been suggested they be put on a fraud list. Use magic men with crystals. Look like a mixture group, Lenape and Cherokee. Hard to tell.  http://www.powwows.com/gathering/native-issues/42092-list-fraudulent-cherokee-chickamuagas.html

[Tsisqua]

Never heard of them...and the site doesnt give much info...does your friend know names of these people?

Seems they dont mention names...yet switch from using one band of Cherokee language to the other...which are all quite different...you either speak one...and stick to it...or not at all...these folks are mixing the language....(Using Keetoowah Cherokee...and Eastern NC Cherokee) which to me is a big tell tale sign of yet another bunch of 'My great great great grandpa once shook hands with a woman who had a cousin who used to live next door to a man who was married to a 1/16th Cherokee'.

They claim:

in Cherokee there is no word for "please???.

Im sorry...I am Cherokee...Keetoowah...and the word for please happens to be howatsu......Seems to be a big old pile of horse...ummmmm...manure in my opinion just based on the language slip ups.

[ndn_proud]

Their "magic Man" claims to be related to "hawk little john", David Winston is the "Medicine Priest" as he calls himself, think he is some kind of herbalist, or something of the sort, all I know is my friend was a guest there at their "show" and he was disrespected!

[Tsisqua]

David Winston is an American herbalist and ethnobotanist who, since 1977 has practiced and taught herbal medicine in United States. He has over 38 years training in Cherokee, Chinese and the western/Eclectic herbal traditions. In addition, Winston is a founding/professional member of the American Herbalists Guild[1] , for which he served four terms as a Board Member and is a founding member of United Plant Savers a nonprofit which seeks to protect native medicinal plants of the United States and Canada and their native habitats. [2] He serves as an adjunct professor at the Tai Sophia Institute and is the Dean of the Center for Herbal Studies [3]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Winston

Hawk Littlejohn (b. June 12, 1941; d. December 14, 2000) was perhaps the greatest contemporary Native American flute maker. At the time of his death, he was living in Old Fort, North Carolina, where he made his flutes and kept alive his native Cherokee traditions. His expertise in Native American medicine afforded him a position as adjunct professor at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill's medical school, and as a cultural consultant for the Smithsonian Institution and the North Carolina Museum of History. He also wrote essays on Cherokee life, traditions, spirituality, and medicine in a column called "Good Medicine" for the Keetoowah Journal. An important aspect of Hawk's spirituality was his commitment to environmentalism and the connectedness of all life. The flute was his connection with the past and the future, and he combined historical and modern methods in its making. Like many flute makers, Hawk often used dead wood or scrap wood, especially due to the quality of wood in the wild and of old growth wood used in the old buildings. He used a modern lathe to shape the flute, but burned the holes in the traditional fashion with heated steel rods. His flutes are played by flutists all over the world, and flute makers all over the world take inspiration from his craft.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hawk_Littlejohn

David Winston is an Herbalist and Ethnobotanist with over 35 years of training in Cherokee, Chinese and Western herbal traditions. He has been in clinical practice for over 28 years and is a herbal consultant to many physicians and other healthcare professionals throughout the USA and Canada.

David is also the president of Herbalist & Alchemist, Inc. an herbal company manufacturing over 300 products, and founder/director of Herbal Therapeutics, Inc. School of Botanical Medicine. He is an internationally known lecturer and teaches frequently at medical schools, symposia and herb conferences.

David is a contributing author of American Herbalism, published in 1992 by Crossings Press, the author of Saw Palmetto for Men & Women, Storey, 1999, and the co-author of Herbal Therapy & Supplements: A Scientific and Traditional Approach, Lippincott, 2nd edition 2007 and Adaptogens: Herbs for Strength, Stamina, and Stress Relief, Healing Arts, 2007. In addition, David is a founding/professional member of the American Herbalist Guild, for which he served three terms as a Board Member.

http://www.herbaltherapeutics.net/

I dont see anything linking him to this group anywhere...the info on this group seems very little....do you know exactly where the 'show' was held...and if there are more coming up in the future?

[ndn_proud]

http://vitanetonline.com/forums/1/Thread/278

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9501E2D91538F931A35752C0A9669C8B63&sec=&spon=

http://www.herbalist-alchemist.com/HA%20News/Interview_with%20David%20Winston.pdf

I know that the site doesn't speak of him but this is the name I was given by 2 sources, they are located near the Delaware Water Gap in Pa, they meet regularly i think once a month or so??

[Tsisqua]

The first link you posted: http://vitanetonline.com/forums/1/Thread/278

David Winston, a Cherokee medicine priest and herbalist living in New Jersey

Cherokee Medicine Priest eh? To which Nation?? And one who charges for Medicine etc??...hmmmm curious.

The next link: http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9501E2D91538F931A35752C0A9669C8B63&sec=&spon=

The couple were married on Wednesday -- Dr. Nowicki's 50th birthday -- in a Cherokee wedding ceremony at the Grenville Hotel in Bay Head, N.J. In Cherokee tradition, the couple fed each other four sacred foods (berries, corn, meat and water); promised to share blankets forever and were given a long hickory stick. ''Birth, death, sadnesses and happinesses all get carved into the stick,'' said David Winston, a Cherokee medicine priest, who officiated. ''As long as the stick is intact, the marriage is intact.''

Hmmm I wonder how much he charged for that?? And I wonder which Cherokee Nation made him a 'Medicine Priest'??

This man is not Cherokee...so how can he possibly be an Ordained Cherokee Priest? Let alone a Cherokee Medicine/Holy man?

There's a video here: http://www.veoh.com/videos/v3902084bBZyd5f2

I think the video says it all to be honest...holay molay...

Alot of these herbalists/healers etc become Ordained Priests....it kinda sorta protects them against people filing law suits for inappropriate touching/or indeed their herbs/treatment not working etc...but I'd like to know how this guy has become a Cherokee Medicine/Holy man...and with which nation considering he's not Cherokee!

And if these people are in the Delaware Water Gap, located in Monroe County in North Eastern Pennsylvania?...They must be under a different name.

[dabosijigwokush]

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[wolfhawaii]

Siyo Tsisqua, did you watch the whole video of David Winston?  On what do you base your statement that he is not Cherokee? He states that he is, says he has relatives on and off res in Qualla.....he is even wearing a Fading Voices festival shirt! I haven't made my own mind up yet but how did you get yours made up so fast?

The first link you posted: http://vitanetonline.com/forums/1/Thread/278

David Winston, a Cherokee medicine priest and herbalist living in New Jersey

Cherokee Medicine Priest eh? To which Nation?? And one who charges for Medicine etc??...hmmmm curious.

The next link: http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9501E2D91538F931A35752C0A9669C8B63&sec=&spon=

The couple were married on Wednesday -- Dr. Nowicki's 50th birthday -- in a Cherokee wedding ceremony at the Grenville Hotel in Bay Head, N.J. In Cherokee tradition, the couple fed each other four sacred foods (berries, corn, meat and water); promised to share blankets forever and were given a long hickory stick. ''Birth, death, sadnesses and happinesses all get carved into the stick,'' said David Winston, a Cherokee medicine priest, who officiated. ''As long as the stick is intact, the marriage is intact.''

Hmmm I wonder how much he charged for that?? And I wonder which Cherokee Nation made him a 'Medicine Priest'??

This man is not Cherokee...so how can he possibly be an Ordained Cherokee Priest? Let alone a Cherokee Medicine/Holy man?

There's a video here: http://www.veoh.com/videos/v3902084bBZyd5f2

I think the video says it all to be honest...holay molay...

Alot of these herbalists/healers etc become Ordained Priests....it kinda sorta protects them against people filing law suits for inappropriate touching/or indeed their herbs/treatment not working etc...but I'd like to know how this guy has become a Cherokee Medicine/Holy man...and with which nation considering he's not Cherokee!

And if these people are in the Delaware Water Gap, located in Monroe County in North Eastern Pennsylvania?...They must be under a different name.

[wolfhawaii]

whitepathsociety.org

  A friend of mine was at some of their "ceremonies", mostly all white, equipt with a "magic Man", mixed Sweats, and collection of "tax exempt donations"

Just curious ndnproud, how did they disrespect your friend?

[educatedindian]

So far there's nothing really to tie Winston to this group, and not much to be found on the group. Winston has quite a long history with herbalists/altmedicine people, including dozens of books and articles. Some of them seem to be serious medical or pharmaceutical discussion. Much of what he's doing seems to be searching for cures within traditions outside of western medical ones, like Ayurvedic and traditional Chinese and what he says is Cherokee tradition. I'm not an expert by any means on herbal uses in these traditions, so I'm reluctant to say how valuable or effective what he's teaching is.

I did find a few legal docs noting cases with people saying they'd been given traditional Cherokee weddings by Winston. (Divorce cases, BTW.) I don't see anything else saying he is or isn't Cherokee.

Hawk Littlejohn was a pretty well known musician. The Smoky Mountain News notes in their memorial article that he was an Eastern Band member. This paper caters to the EB community, among others. I doubt they could be easily fooled.

[wolfhawaii]

David Winston has a stomp ground somewhere in the area where PA, NJ, and NY meet. I have not been there but I am aware of it from several sources. I have a paper somewhere which has more info on the group; I will have to look for it. Winston seems pretty knowledgeable from an herbalist perspective. I have heard he learned medicine from Hawk Littlejohn. I have not previously heard about Hawk Littlejohn being a medicine person, but I do not live in NC, and I don't know everyone. All I know about Hawk is that he has crossed and he made great flutes.

[Delaware5092]

David Winston has a stomp ground somewhere in the area where PA, NJ, and NY meet. I have not been there but I am aware of it from several sources. I have a paper somewhere which has more info on the group; I will have to look for it. Winston seems pretty knowledgeable from an herbalist perspective. I have heard he learned medicine from Hawk Littlejohn. I have not previously heard about Hawk Littlejohn being a medicine person, but I do not live in NC, and I don't know everyone. All I know about Hawk is that he has crossed and he made great flutes.

  Been to these grounds, mixed Lakota style Sweats, "scratchings", "doctorings", Mic Mak ceremonial songs and whites stomp dancing, an interesting sight for sure!

[dabosijigwokush]

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[dabosijigwokush]

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