GW Hardin & "Gathering of One"

[bls926]

Y'all are in my thoughts this week. Prayers for the right words and strength.

[Kathryn NicDhàna]

Just spoke with Bernard for a bit before he headed in to speak. They've scheduled a few hours for him to give a speech and answer questions. It sounds like it's Nuage central there. I don't know if the general run of Nuagers attracted to this sort of event will be able to truly hear and understand a traditional perspective, but my hope is that if even a few of the attendees question the misappropriation of traditional ways, they will start thinking and talking about it and a seed will be planted. I think Bernard is being very kind to them by giving them the opportunity to have a change of heart. We'll see how it goes.

When we first proposed (as an alternative to boycotting Holiday Inn) that they provide a place for actual NDNs, and an elder like Bernard, to speak about protection of ceremonies, I thought there was no way the Nuage organizers would take us up on it. I was really surprised they went for it, but it seemed to be a good opportunity to attempt to educate a large group that is responsible for lining the pockets of frauds (and being exploited by them).

Even if the Nuagers can't hear, hopefully Karyl and/or Cat will get some good video footage we can post. I haven't heard if Clifford is there yet (forgot to ask) but if not I hope he shows up soon so there can be another elder there.

More news as it comes in.

Update (a few hours later):

Bernard says the talk went pretty well. One of the things he focused on communicating to the Nuagers is that being a Native American does not mean someone is automatically a spiritual leader. Traditional spiritual leaders are officially recognized by their Nation, teachers and elders, and have been trained and empowered by these authorities in the traditional manner;  it's not something anyone can proclaim themselves, no matter what the color of their skin, no matter how many outsiders they get to follow them.

I think this is a really important point to focus on. People of moderate intelligence are generally capable of understanding that blatant frauds like White Ego Woman are not representatives of Native culture. But it's harder for outsiders, who are ignorant of traditional standards, to know what to do when it's an NDN person who has set themselves up as an authority without earning that right.

While the blatant racists don't give a damn if people call them racists, many of the Nuagers are white liberals - and in that milieu people are often terrified of being called a racist. Consequently, they are usually afraid to challenge any brown person's statements about themselves. And if the brown person is telling them what they want to hear, "Sure, you can come to my mostly-white people sundance; sure I'll help you find your power animal; yes I'm trained in how to do these ceremonies; yes of course I can heal you; etc..." they are eager to make that fraud their new best friend. And even defend the fraud when traditionals try to educate them, because the NDN fraud doesn't seem as bad as the white ones, and is making them feel good about themselves, even if it's all lies.

Anyway, more details later. Things are still a bit hectic there.

Midnight update:

Well, things are still hectic, with lots of people wanting to speak with him, but Bernard called to give a few more details. He says he also focused his speech on the importance of language preservation, and the crucial role of language in ceremony. He says he strongly emphasised that the ceremonies have to be performed in the original, Native language, by those who were trained and authorized in the traditional way.  The spirits must be called with the Native language spoken by the ancestors from whom the ways were inherited. It's not enough for someone to just learn a few phrases; ceremonial leaders need to be able to pray fluently. Without language, the ceremonies will not work, so we must work to preserve the languages.

He was firm on the point that people can't just attend one sweat and then think they are now able to lead a ceremony - that it 's a very serious and demanding process of training that people have to go through before they are given the right to lead a ceremony, and that then their teachers formally present them to the community as a ceremonial leader, so everyone knows who does and doesn't have the right.

It sounds like a number of people were moved by his speech, and many are still coming up wanting to talk to him, these twelve hours later. Whatever happens, it sounds like he definitely has made an impression.

[Kathryn NicDhàna]

Cat also posted a report here: http://blog.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.view&friendID=368629610&blogID=407546603

[frederica]

Sounds good. I'm glad Ben and Benard are there. You will never convince all, but at least maybe make a dent.

[bls926]

Thanks for the update. Read Cat's report on the myspace, too. Sounds like they really listened to Ben and Bernard. 400 people heard them speak. If each one of them tells a couple friends, who in turn discuss this with others, just think of the impact there will be. This is a good thing. Y'all have done a wonderful job!

[LittleOldMan]

There are many weapons that can be used in this war.  Maybe the soft word from a certified Elder will bare fruit.  I hope so.  "LittleOldMan"

[tachia]

it is important to remember that there are different views on this "eden event" , one persons account might just differ from another's .. there are different perceptions that perhaps will not be voiced .. i am here in montana, and have been doing a LOT of observing as well as speaking with people ..  .. i am not going to step on important peoples toes though nor steal anyones thunder so to speak ..  so whether my perceptions are heard on this "event" remains to be seen .. shrug .. sorry, i am tired, sick, stressed, wiped out and facing yet another LONG drive tomorrow .. not sure if  my voice is even welcomed at this point .. ..

[bls926]

Was reading this thread from last summer about the "Gathering of One".

Kathryn, thank you for posting the updates from Bernard Red Cherries. It sounds like his talk covered a lot of important issues.

Just spoke with Bernard for a bit before he headed in to speak. They've scheduled a few hours for him to give a speech and answer questions. It sounds like it's Nuage central there. I don't know if the general run of Nuagers attracted to this sort of event will be able to truly hear and understand a traditional perspective, but my hope is that if even a few of the attendees question the misappropriation of traditional ways, they will start thinking and talking about it and a seed will be planted. I think Bernard is being very kind to them by giving them the opportunity to have a change of heart. We'll see how it goes.

When we first proposed (as an alternative to boycotting Holiday Inn) that they provide a place for actual NDNs, and an elder like Bernard, to speak about protection of ceremonies, I thought there was no way the Nuage organizers would take us up on it. I was really surprised they went for it, but it seemed to be a good opportunity to attempt to educate a large group that is responsible for lining the pockets of frauds (and being exploited by them).

Even if the Nuagers can't hear, hopefully Karyl and/or Cat will get some good video footage we can post. I haven't heard if Clifford is there yet (forgot to ask) but if not I hope he shows up soon so there can be another elder there.

More news as it comes in.

Update (a few hours later):

Bernard says the talk went pretty well. One of the things he focused on communicating to the Nuagers is that being a Native American does not mean someone is automatically a spiritual leader. Traditional spiritual leaders are officially recognized by their Nation, teachers and elders, and have been trained and empowered by these authorities in the traditional manner;  it's not something anyone can proclaim themselves, no matter what the color of their skin, no matter how many outsiders they get to follow them.

I think this is a really important point to focus on. People of moderate intelligence are generally capable of understanding that blatant frauds like White Ego Woman are not representatives of Native culture. But it's harder for outsiders, who are ignorant of traditional standards, to know what to do when it's an NDN person who has set themselves up as an authority without earning that right.

While the blatant racists don't give a damn if people call them racists, many of the Nuagers are white liberals - and in that milieu people are often terrified of being called a racist. Consequently, they are usually afraid to challenge any brown person's statements about themselves. And if the brown person is telling them what they want to hear, "Sure, you can come to my mostly-white people sundance; sure I'll help you find your power animal; yes I'm trained in how to do these ceremonies; yes of course I can heal you; etc..." they are eager to make that fraud their new best friend. And even defend the fraud when traditionals try to educate them, because the NDN fraud doesn't seem as bad as the white ones, and is making them feel good about themselves, even if it's all lies.

Anyway, more details later. Things are still a bit hectic there.

Midnight update:

Well, things are still hectic, with lots of people wanting to speak with him, but Bernard called to give a few more details. He says he also focused his speech on the importance of language preservation, and the crucial role of language in ceremony. He says he strongly emphasised that the ceremonies have to be performed in the original, Native language, by those who were trained and authorized in the traditional way.  The spirits must be called with the Native language spoken by the ancestors from whom the ways were inherited. It's not enough for someone to just learn a few phrases; ceremonial leaders need to be able to pray fluently. Without language, the ceremonies will not work, so we must work to preserve the languages.

He was firm on the point that people can't just attend one sweat and then think they are now able to lead a ceremony - that it 's a very serious and demanding process of training that people have to go through before they are given the right to lead a ceremony, and that then their teachers formally present them to the community as a ceremonial leader, so everyone knows who does and doesn't have the right.

It sounds like a number of people were moved by his speech, and many are still coming up wanting to talk to him, these twelve hours later. Whatever happens, it sounds like he definitely has made an impression.

Ben Carnes was scheduled to speak at this event, also. I thought he was going to let us know how it went, when he got back home. No update from Ben and/or Cat?

[bls926]

It's been two years since The Gathering of One was held in Yellowstone. Two years to the day since Bernard Red Cherries and Ben Carnes spoke at this event. What a difference two years has made . . .

[nemesis]

I would like to know what people think about the "cleansing ceremony" here: http://www.thegatheringofone.com/content1.asp?cat=2&id=6

I can't remember who told me that it's not good to pour alcohol on the the earth, or what Nation they were from, but it's something I've always observed out of respect.

That link is now down so I was not able to check the page, however I understand that poring alcohol (usually rum) on the ground is a traditional way of feeding the ancestor spirits in some Santeria based religions.

[debbieredbear]

Bls8926 wrote:

What a difference two years has made .

In what way do you think? Just out of curiosity. If you see changes for the good, how would you see that?

[bls926]

Bls8926 wrote:

What a difference two years has made .

In what way do you think? Just out of curiosity. If you see changes for the good, how would you see that?

There have been some major changes and not for the good. I really cannot go into details at this time.

If there had been changes for the good, how would I see that? I think that would have been fantastic; however, nothing good came from this event. All the glow from the initial reports following Bernard's talk soon faded.

[amorYcohetes]

That link is now down so I was not able to check the page, however I understand that pouring alcohol (usually rum) on the ground is a traditional way of feeding the ancestor spirits in some Santeria based religions.

Interesting.  In Bolivia (and prob most of the Andean region), from my understanding from relatives and friends, ch'alla is an offering to Pachamama (Mother Earth), sometimes done as part of a blessing, or to give thanks before eating/drinking.  I always figured it originated with the Aymara people and spread to the Quechua, or vice versa.  Since Bolivian culture and religion today is based mostly on those cultures, but also the Spanish, I guess it's possible it could also have roots in a Mediterranean tradition...  But myself, I assume it's a ritual traditional to this continent.   Since contact we have beer, wine, and so on, but fermented chicha is an alcoholic drink indigenous to the Andes.  But it's hard to imagine where the connection with a "cleansing ritual" taking place in the SW US would be...! Not being able to access the link I guess I'll never know (& am prob better off that way, heh).

[Dave.S]

I am really curious as to what you mean by "major changes but not for the good". There have been two other events since Yellowstone. I did not see you or any of the others that were invited in attendance at these other two events. At the Yellowstone Event the attendees were very respectful and supportive to the group that came to observe and participate.

I mean no disrespect by my question. I do however feel that your statement is still coming from a place of defense. The people who attended the Yellowstone Event topped 480. GW Hardin has not attended an Event since Yellowstone. That is one change. He had only attended three events total including the one we are talking about.

The group listened to all of the speakers and also people who came to protest the non-native people that were invited and then dis-invited. Bernard R. spoke and was listened to intently. So intensely that most of the people in attendance donated several thousands of dollars to him to help in the expense of laying his daughter to rest. I felt his sadness when I met him, later I found out the source of the sadness.

Again, I mean no disrespect to you or your opinion of what transpired. I just do not see how things got worse if you and the others have not been in contact with the attendees at the event. The website that GW created is no longer on line. GW is no longer working with the group and has not talked to Joe or Robbie since the event in Yellowstone.

About me, I am native to California, my family has lived in this area for many thousands of years, I do not call myself a native American, I am a child of God just as you are. Personally, I have seen many things that were good come from the Yellowstone Event and the two that happened afterwords. The most major thing that happened after YS was the economy crash. Our monetary system does not work for everyone, and given that we are all children of the same creator a balance has to happen. The other thing that has happened that was foretold by the Angel that visits Joe is the world leaders have started to be brought back to sanity. Just after the event we are talking about Russia had attacked Georgia and the world stood up and said we are not doing things like that any longer.

Look to your heart for changes, things are much different now. If you do not see that it is ok. My suggestion is that we become pro-active and send out the respect that we expect. Also looking deeper into what has been given to all peoples from the Angels would be in order. Teach Only Love is the message. Is it not time to do just that? I am not trying to reprimand anyone, I am however looking to shed light in the darkness of our angered hearts. We all live on our mother and can live together in peace, yet it must start somewhere. It can start with you. Thank you for taking the time to read this with an open mind and open heart.

Bless your heart,

Dave.S


There have been some major changes and not for the good. I really cannot go into details at this time.

If there had been changes for the good, how would I see that? I think that would have been fantastic; however, nothing good came from this event. All the glow from the initial reports following Bernard's talk soon faded.
[/quote]

[critter]

Angel visits.. I'm sorry, I just don't believe in that sort of thing. Of course, there's lots of explanations why this "angel" only speaks to Joe.