Author Topic: Bobby Lake-Thom  (Read 41572 times)

Offline RoseBlossom

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Bobby Lake-Thom
« on: October 15, 2007, 12:13:51 am »
I saw this at my library, looked suspicious:

Robert Lake-Thom--
Spirits of the Earth: A Guide to Native American Nature Symbols, Stories, and Ceremonies
http://www.amazon.com/Spirits-Earth-American-Symbols-Ceremonies/dp/0452276500

Quote
From Library Journal
Native Americans believe that animal spirits can ultimately influence everyday lives. Lake-Thom, a healer and a descendant of three Native American tribes, combines his own experience, work with tribal elders, and readings from folk tales to explain the significance of good- and bad-luck symbols to these tribes. For instance, the hummingbird is considered to be a good-luck messenger that can carry a person's prayers to the Creator; in contrast, the owl is considered a sign of bad luck and a messenger of death. In a clear and straightforward writing style, the author defines symbols such as the turtle, bear, and coyote for Karuk, Seneca, and Cherokee tribes. He also includes several chapters on how one can get in touch with animal spirits through active participation in ceremonies and establishing sacred places. There is a helpful index and accompanying sketches. Recommended for public libraries.?Vicki Leslie Toy Smith, Univ. of Nevada, Reno
Copyright 1997 Reed Business Information, Inc.

You can read the first page:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/reader/0452276500/ref=sib_fs_bod/104-3035076-7714324?ie=UTF8&p=S00K&checkSum=Rg7YMkRJLoh5OU39oeaDQs6BRaPAyijOUjiEP8WXFiU%3D#reader-link
And if you use the "Suprise me!" you can see more pages throughout (have to sign in)

It seemed very New Age and generic.

Also:
Quote
Robert Lake-Thom
Bobby Lake-Thom, known as Medicine Grizzly Bear, is a traditional Native healer and spiritual teacher of Karuk and Seneca descent (affiliated with the Quartz Valley Indian Reservation in California). He has been schooled in both Western and Native american traditions and has taught and lectured extensively aross the United States for more than three decades. He is the author of two previous books on Native American culture and spirituality, Native Healer and Chilula: People from the Ancient Redwoods, and his articles have appeared in The Indian Historian, The Journal for Ethnic Studies, Quest magazine, Shaman's Drum, and other publications. He lives near Mt. Shasta in Yreka, California.
http://us.penguingroup.com/nf/Author/AuthorPage/0,,1000018487,00.html

Also see: Medicine Grizzlybear Lake

(I searched is Robert Lake-Thom on the forum and didn't find any threads, I didn't think to search the above name as I just found it, so if there's another thead please forgive me!)

http://www.nativehealer.net/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medicine_Grizzlybear_Lake

I have my ideas, but I rather leave it up to the experts!
« Last Edit: October 15, 2007, 12:17:42 am by RoseBlossom »

Offline RoseBlossom

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Re: Robert Lake-Thom
« Reply #1 on: October 15, 2007, 12:22:06 am »
Well, looking a few pages back I found a thread about him, but not using a name I'd expected.

Bobby Lake-Thom
http://www.newagefraud.org/smf/index.php?topic=818.0

There was nothing for Robert Lake-Thom or (I just searched) Medicine Grizzlybear Lake. So he goes by another name: Bobby!
Sheesh.

Sorry about double posting the same person.

Offline educatedindian

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Re: Robert Lake-Thom
« Reply #2 on: October 15, 2007, 01:01:47 pm »
Don't worry about it. Feel free to share your ideas too.

One of the links you found had something interesting, downright revealing.

http://www.nativehealer.net/Healer2005/prophecies.html
"The Prophecy:
A Great Purification and Earth Changes
By Medicine Grizzly Bear Lake-Thom
Traditional Native Healer and Spiritual Teacher
www. nativehealer.net (April 2006)

Introduction:

In March 1975, I had a shamanistic visionary experience on a sacred coastal mountain, Trinidad, in northwestern California...

The spiritual vision and prophecy involved a UFO type encounter with a Flying Saucer, and the prophecy and teachings were given to me by ancient ancestral spirits. Although I have been laughed at by the public, scorned by my colleagues at the university, and even ridiculed by some of the Native American people for bringing the experience to the public eye, I realize, now that the symbols in this vision, i.e. the example of the flying saucer were appropriate in this era. The experience changed my whole life because it made me emotionally and psychologically ill, the stress from it caused a divorce in my marriage, and the embarrassment to my employer cost me my teaching position. Several months later, after the alleged “Close Encounter???, I found myself unemployed, broke, sick, homeless and destitute. I had nowhere to turn but to the Elders and Medicine people of my tribes for therapy. The experience served to be a death sentence of the old self, it completely changed my life and life-style, and it also proved to be a calling into the spiritual-cultural profession. It was during this time that I went through one of my most intensive shamanic trainings, called in Yurok, hokep, (for elaboration on the concept, refer to Spott and Krober, 1942; Buckley, 1980). If it wasn’t for the open-mindedness of the Native elders and the use of traditional healing methods, I would probably still be sick, or locked up in a mental hospital. But the burden and responsibility of this knowledge still weighs heavy upon my mind, socio-cultural life, and the academic profession I used to support my family. It is not fun being stigmatized as a “Doomsday Preacher???.

The shamanistic visionary type experience, UFO prophecy as I call it, and the predictions I was given about future Earth Changes was first documented in a New Age magazine, Psychic Times (Eureka, 1975),"

So seemingly he's happy to put himself into the Nuage category. So were his elders, who still took pity upon him and helped heal him from his mental health problems.

He follows this with some pretty generic prophecies, the kind that'd fit almost any era. But there were a few that are amazingly wrong.

"There is a possibility that the 39th and/or 40th President of the United States will be assassinated. If such an event occurs it is an indication that a Third War is in the embryonic stage of development, before the mid-1980’s."

Not successfully assassinated anyway. There sure wasn't WWIII.

"Foreign and deadly insects will begin to enter the United States before the late 1970’s. This is sign that other countries who were originally U.S. allies will soon become deceptive enemies."

I can't think of any countries who became enemies over the "killer bees" that never showed up.
 
"Before the year 1986 the U.S. Government will nationally admit that they have recovered and posses a number of alien space craft and beings for scientific study."

What?!

"the possible sinking of some Pacific Islands, and the possible sinking of Puerto Rico, the Bahamas and Japan before the late-1990’s"

?!

"A very large star or comet will almost collide with the Earth sometime during the late 1990’s."

?!

"From the years 1988 to 1998, then to 2008 earthquake activity may possibly increase yearly, thereby causing destruction of the Los Angeles-Bakersfield area, the San Francisco region, Denver, New York City, and Seattle."

?!
 
"A surprise attack of missiles might be made against the United States on the eastern seaboard, by a smaller country. As a consequence the United States will enter into a Third World War, which might turn into a intercontinental nuclear holocaust. China might become our strongest ally, while Russia will abstain from becoming involved. Shortly after the year 2002 there will be a coalition formed between the world’s superpowers with Russia serving as the mediator, and potentially emerging as the planetary leader"

So that's two world wars he falsely predicted.

Then he gives some fairly good advice, basically be better to each other, less selfish, etc. Followed by this amazing bit:

"What can people do to prepare for the potential purification?....As for the Native American people, our Elders advise: We are the original caretakers of this land. Bring back your sacred dances, rituals, and ceremonies. Perform the religious activities with cleanliness and according to traditional custom and law: No alcohol, no drugs, abstain from sex, avoid Moontime (menses power and energy), do not record or photograph these activities, and do not sell the religion for profit; otherwise it will not be spiritual."

And this:
"for the non-Indians, the Elder’s advise....another way concerned people can help prepare for the alleged Great Purification and potential predictions is to help the Native American people with their aboriginal and legal rights: Make your governments sanction and honor the American Indian Religious Freedom Act (PL9S-341), make your government, large corporations, exploiters, and tourists leave the sacred sites alone, and help support the traditional Native healers and ceremonial leaders"

I'd still say it's a mixed picture. If some of his questionable activity, like putting out a shingle online, resulted from mental health problems, that's something that makes him less worse than a Harley or a Brooke.

windbear

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Re: Robert Lake-Thom
« Reply #3 on: December 23, 2008, 11:29:17 pm »
I know bobby lake thom personally.Ive also read his books,heard him lecture.spent time with him and have done swets,and watched and participated in healings(indian doctoring) He is a well of knowledge.I came across this blog un intentionally and was really put out by the the way educated indian tares into this man.Are you an indian? are you a traditional?a spiritual man?have you personally grown up emmersed in whom ever your peoples culture and laguange is?There are no pure cultures left.If a man who wants to teach spirituallity he must be diverse and now and understand all customs and cultures.Do you know his father charlie thom is the last of the karuk speakers amongst his people and very well could be one of the last full blood karuks alive?How does one expect indian people to be completly traditional when most have no idea of there culture do to its bastardazation mixing of races and other indian peoples,not to mention the assimalation into christianity ect the genocide of there languages cultures and beliefs.People like bobby keep the ways and beliefs of indigenous peoples alive and allow others who have been a victim of the revisinost history of the indian people to learn and particpate in way that they can understand.If you leave the knowledge and wisdom that the creator has given to us for only a few who choose not to share with ALL THERE RELATIONS then that will also die and be forgotten just as the great ones

Offline educatedindian

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Re: Robert Lake-Thom
« Reply #4 on: December 24, 2008, 11:09:46 am »
Most of what you say is ad hominem atacks on me, not worth responding to. The arguments about who to share with and how have been debated many times, with Nuagers usually being the ones to repeat the arguments you make.

I said "a mixed picture." How is that something as ridiculous as you claiming I "tear into" him? Almost everything in my post were his own words. And he admits to a long history of mental illness, puts himself in the Nuage category, and makes a lot of very wrong predictions that are straight out of supermarket tabloids and End Times Christianity.

As I said before,, his mental health problems make him a mixed picture. He's worthy of pity, except for the way Nuage people use him and don't seem to care about his being vulnerable. To call him a well of knowledge seems ridiculous.


windbear

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Re: Robert Lake-Thom
« Reply #5 on: December 24, 2008, 02:56:15 pm »
Im not attacking you what so ever and please excuse me if you have mis interpeted by my intentions.Being that the man is a friend,I was compelled to defend him.To me knowing him personally I guess I have a diffrent approach to him and what he has to say.Im not saying that I agree or dis agree with the info. in his books or believe all that is written,but in any case,as a human being I find him to kind generous,and very interesting to speak with.I dont want any one to think Im trying to doubt you personally.As I said I am new to this and no idea of your credentials,and will all respect.Your opion is accepted gracfully.The mental illness thing is a bit over the top,you can criticize his work and his credentials,thats all fair game,but that comment came across to be hatefull, maliciuos.un called for and un neccissary,even if its mentioned in his book.You obviously are an educated man,and could have chosen better and more compassionate terms to describe your disgust.As for bobby there are those who will continue to like him and those who wont.Such is life.I would however like to continue participating in this forum and hope you dont find that offensive.

Laurel

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Re: Robert Lake-Thom
« Reply #6 on: December 24, 2008, 03:44:30 pm »
Speaking just for myself, I'd be less offended if you read around the forum a bit more before you posted much.  I thought your intro post was OK, since it expressed a desire to learn and some humility. 

If you look around a little more, you'll find that almost every time someone is presented for research here, a fan of that person rushes over to defend him/her.  They very often say that it's meeting the person that matters and not whether or not that person is exploitating native religions for profit. This site is, however, about people who exploit Native religions for profit; charisma is not an issue here.  The defenders very often quote a Lakota phrase as if it applied universally to all humans in all situations--but NAFPS is all about explaining that native religions are not all the same and are not open to all who want to practice them. 

Examples:  the Karuk and Seneca very probably don't "do sweats," as this word has come, in popular usage, to mean the Lakota inipi.   I doubt there's any such thing as a universal method of "Indian doctoring."  Saying the old ways have been killed by assimilation and then saying further prostitution is the only thing that will save them makes no sense.  (Frankly, if they were my traditions, and they had been reduced to a plastic dream catcher hanging on some moron's rear view mirror, I might be tempted to let them die. But I know I'd feel inclined to fight for them.)  You are defending the revisionism you say you don't like. This revisionism hurts Native people and cultures every day, and it's perpetuated by everyday Americans who believe that Native Americans are pretty much all dead, that when they were alive they they all lived in tipis and "did sweats," and that the living ones who take offense at offensive crap like "do-your-own-sweat lodge" books are the real racists and need a lecture on their own religions. 

In short, you come off as arrogant, self-contradictory (are his books part of his "well of wisdom" or not?), belligerent, and defensive. You insist you were misinterpreted.  No, you weren't, not anymore than Natives need to be threatened with an afterlife in obscurity (why do you think they care whether you remember them?) if they dare argue with your interpretation of "mitakuye oyasin." If you really want to learn, do like Judge Judy says and put on your listening ears.

I'm giving you a hard time about some things others have done.  I don't mean to say you've done all these things. I'm just saying that many of us here have seen and read it all before, and that if you really want to learn you have to drop your defenses and listen, really listen, to what others say.
« Last Edit: December 24, 2008, 07:03:49 pm by Laurel »

Offline Moma_porcupine

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Re: Robert Lake-Thom
« Reply #7 on: December 24, 2008, 04:43:40 pm »
There is another thread on this guy

http://www.newagefraud.org/smf/index.php?topic=818.0
Bobby Lake-Thom

And here is an example of why people with peculiar ideas are more than nice people who are a bit eccentric. Unfortunately they pass on their ideas as real traditions and in this case it appears he has  authorized other people to do the same.

http://www.newagefraud.org/smf/index.php?topic=792.0
Reply #13
Quote
Lighteagle is a fully apprenticed Bear Medicine Shaman who was trained in the old traditional Native American ways for thirteen years. During the final stage of his apprenticeship he lived alone for nearly a year in a remote mountainous area in the primitive ways of his ancestors.
 
Following completion of his training, he was befriended by Senior Elder Medicine Grizzly Bear Bobby Lake Thom, who encouraged him to reach out further to others in his work, and advises Lighteagle if requested to do so.

If you do a search on Weylin Lighteagle this is one of several threads that come up on the guy. Weylin is right out there...

windbear

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Re: Robert Lake-Thom
« Reply #8 on: December 24, 2008, 05:31:55 pm »
I would like to thank you all for your input...I bid you all a fair well. and a good and peacefull journey

Offline earthw7

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Re: Robert Lake-Thom
« Reply #9 on: December 26, 2008, 04:06:33 pm »
Ok I am sorry that people get fooled that is why this board is so important.
I have to say YES, there are tribes who still have thire, culture, spirituality intacted.
The thought that people think we have no pure culture because of so many cultural fakes out there is wrong. We are still here and we are still people.
In Spirit

Offline Fisher

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Bobby Lake-thom
« Reply #10 on: January 23, 2010, 04:09:20 pm »
This guy needs some looking into.
I don't like this but while on chemo, went to see this guy who 'took on my case'.
He is not from my area..and am far from home and no one around here but the wannabe's and traveling 'spiritual leaders' who charge for everything....so with referrals from others went.
Has a long history of this latter found out... tried to do perverted things, talked about money a lot.....I did leave.
He does have some gifts but money and power seems to be the main thing and messing with women, claiming his bodily fluids....can understand how ones spit...but semen? Sex? And the way he talked about it....the way he behaved....No way.
Charges for everything with the excuse that people don't bring firewood, moneys for that, his time, herbs,.....why not tell people to bring some things to help out if they don't know or don't care
If challenged he will make up stories about you to keep you out of his 'loop' to protect himself...keep his 'friends' and immediate family that don't know what's he's up to so his comfortable living circumstances now gotten isn't in jeopardy....poor newer wife.
If not so sick, I would have reported this a while back...and also a little paranoid as he does have some powers.
As one who truly knows told me, some people are like coins...have 2 sides.
Another who is involved in spiritual and domestic abuse said....that's why less people go to healers because of lack of trust with so many like him which affects culture and less who have gifts to commit, learn the langauge if they don't know it ...it is not an easy life.
So warnings about this person.....he may do some well for some...don't know....don't care.....but would never recommend him  to anyone.
Still feel like a fool about it all.... :-[

Offline educatedindian

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Re: Bobby Lake-thom
« Reply #11 on: January 23, 2010, 04:57:15 pm »
Merged the thread with an older one we have. Hopefully this may help you some.

Hello Fisher. I'm not doubting what you say, but would like more specifics, esp with as serious a charge as you are making about him abusing women. As you can see from the older posts and Thom's own words, he is a dubious character at best. But if people need to be warned he is not merely eccentric or deluded but possibly dangerous, that's a charge where we have to be careful about and back it up as best we can.

Could you be more specific about excactly what you claim he did? Was this to you or to others you know? Of course we would not ask you to reveal anything which would expose your identity or others. You may contact a mod in private by IM if you wish. In over a decade we have never broken anyone's trust.

Offline Fisher

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Re: Bobby Lake-thom
« Reply #12 on: January 23, 2010, 06:48:26 pm »
I will be fine with telling all the details....but feel it may be troublesome for me and family....there is the perverted behavior also that maybe too graphic ....maybe youngsters reading here.... so how do I contact you?
I am not making this up nor trying to make trouble.
It is something that needs to be told so others may be warned.
He did not have a site back then.
I tell the truth and if taken to court, he would have a hard time to impossible to prove me proving me wrong....lying.
This is a serious accusation but this is true.....
He stays low but has a following and continues to 'doctor'.
I also later found out that he has people who very much dislike him.
How do I contact you? Click under your screen name?

Offline debbieredbear

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Re: Bobby Lake-thom
« Reply #13 on: January 23, 2010, 06:57:15 pm »
Yes, click on his profile and on his profile page there is a link to send him a message.

Offline Fisher

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Re: Bobby Lake-thom
« Reply #14 on: January 23, 2010, 07:40:55 pm »
Thank you...will do that later.

How do I get my email off of board and profile? Have been trying.