Author Topic: Jimmy La Vallee & Spiritual Warrior Vision  (Read 43594 times)

Offline educatedindian

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Jimmy La Vallee & Spiritual Warrior Vision
« on: June 09, 2007, 01:37:45 pm »
Some of this guy's practice looks to be vague pop psychology. Other parts of it, like Neuro Linguistic Programming, are dangerous. NLP is commonly used by cults.
   
Like the part about his being an "assistant" to Phil Fontaine. He was a guard. I was a security guard at 18 for a company called Wackenhut. They had me at the corporate headquarters for one of the first big computer companies, Datapoint. That doesn't make me an expert in computers.
 
Much of his story is a call for vague "healing." Of what is generally unclear.

http://www.spirit-warrior.ca/personal.shtml
"It is my quest to providing healthy support, treatment, and training for those who suffer disconnection from their true life force."

Sounds like an electrician is what's needed.

"in 1992, At Paha Sapa  - the Black Hills of South Dakota, I was at my first Experiential therapy group
at Onsite Workshops. In front of a group of 50 strangers, mostly white people"

Onsite Workshops host a lot of vague pop psychology workshops.

"I recall... from a very early age.  I was confused - unhappy, even depressed. I remember seeing members of my family as such unique people... people, that I was in awe of. Yet, I knew they, we were, I was "not living right".

His bio rambles on and on like this. Something not feeling vaguely right, but no real problems except for hints of an abusive father. Kind of like he's doing his best to appeal to lost people living in the suburbs needing direction rather than deal with something as difficult as a violent dad.

"My recovery was achieved and supported through and by countless individual counseling and therapy sessions here at home. Along with self-help groups such as 12-Step types and Adult Children, AA, Neuro-Linguistic Programming (NLP), and a whole library of self-help books on healing and recovery"

Pretty much he seems to be a 12 stepper and self help guru vaguely claiming to use the NDN angle to sell workshops. The NLP stuff is very manipulative, their techniques are widely used by cult leaders.

What he sells:

"Daily Physical Health, Nutrition, and Fitness
Nutrition and Weight-management Seminars
Detoxification and Cleansing Teachings
Emotional Education / Well-Being and Capacity Building Sessions
Self-defense, Personal, Emotional, Empowerment Development. 
Mentoring and Healthy Helping
Fun, Play, Empowering Team Assessment and Development
Personal Resource Maintenance and Management Development"

No sign of him selling ceremony, just a lot of vague things that are not clear if he's actually doing any good. After all, if you're selling weight loss or nutrition courses, why not just call it that instead of the appeal to "pity the poor NDN"?
 

Offline dabosijigwokush

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Re: Jimmy La Vallee & Spiritual Warrior Vision
« Reply #1 on: June 11, 2007, 04:51:11 am »
spirit-warrior.ca   Whois Form
Organization:   Jaye La-Vallee
Description:
Admin-Name:     Jaye La-Vallee
Admin-Title:
Admin-Postal:   -
                700 Montrose Street
                Winnipeg MB R3M 3N2 Canada
Admin-Phone:    204-224-9520
Admin-Fax:
Admin-Mailbox:  support@newwinnipeg.net
Tech-Name:      Domain Registrant
Tech-Title:
Tech-Postal:    New Winnipeg Media
                137 Langside Street
                Winnipeg MB R3C 1Z5 Canada
Tech-Phone:     204-783-0935
Tech-Fax:
Tech-Mailbox:   support@newwinnipeg.net
NS1-Hostname:   ns.newwinnipeg.net
NS1-Netaddress:
NS2-Hostname:   ns2.newwinnipeg.net
NS2-Netaddress:
NS3-Hostname:
NS3-Netaddress:
NS4-Hostname:
NS4-Netaddress:
NS5-Hostname:
NS5-Netaddress:
NS6-Hostname:
NS6-Netaddress:

Registration information:  http://www.cira.ca/




Offline dabosijigwokush

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Re: Jimmy La Vallee & Spiritual Warrior Vision
« Reply #2 on: June 11, 2007, 05:38:00 am »
check with the lakotas to see if he is real

http://www.lakotamall.com/oglalasiouxtribe/contact_info.htm

:)

PB

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Re: Jimmy La Vallee & Spiritual Warrior Vision
« Reply #3 on: June 18, 2007, 02:44:28 am »
Educatedindian,

While I appreciate your organization’s efforts to protect the public from artificial (and sometimes dangerous) “healers???, your speculations about Jim La Vallee are not accurate.  I write this with all due respect for your important work.  I do hope you will reconsider your suspicions of Mr. La Vallee after you have read my account of the help he has done for my family and me.

Because I am part of the medical community myself,  I would not settle for anything less than a professional for my own personal therapy.  Although I am successful at my career, and my patients rely on my expertise, I myself am diagnosed with PTSD, which on occasion distracts me from my work, or interferes with my family life.  For years, I sought out counselors, social workers and even clergy to help me overcome these issues, but I only encountered “quick-fix??? remedies, and psychiatric gimmicks.  Most of these over-educated and super-qualified people were younger than myself, and not at all wise about the realities of the world.  I spent a fortune and so much time looking for peace of mind, and had essentially given up, until I learned about the helping and healing methods of the Circle of Life Medicine Way, as taught by Mr. La Vallee.

As an Experiential Psychodramatist, La Vallee’s approach to mental health is grounded in Sioux tradition, but carries with it much contemporary psychology as well.  The balance of these two different but complimentary views is outstanding ... and effective.  The Circle of Life Medicine Way is not for the faint of heart; it mandates incredible courage and honesty.  If you as the patient lack either of these, La Vallee identifies it immediately and very bluntly redirects you to your own individual strength and truth.  If you are looking for a mystic guru or someone to hold you hand, you will not like this man’s style.  But if you truly want solutions, if you want to understand why you think/feel/act in a certain negative way, and if you want to find your own individual path toward a peaceful life, Jim La Vallee’s program may be your answer.  It certainly was mine.

My history also involved a brief affiliation with an abusive religious group.  I can attribute my recovery from this group to the guidance of Jim La Vallee.  He made me aware of my own strengths and power as a Native American, and helped me to see the uselessness of strategies such as Positive Thinking and NLP. He showed me how these are NOT tools for healing.  You were mistaken in what you posted about his views of NLP.  If you read his website in depth, you will see that he stated he was exposed to NLP as one of many methods, but not that he endorses this.  Mr. La Vallee stands for self realization, the opposite of a cult mindset.  Also he does not seek personal followers or in any way strive to develop his own cult. 

Far from “Pop??? psychiatry, as you suggested in your post, LaVallee’s guidance has resulted in genuine and lasting mental health for me, so that I can now provide better care to those who look to me for help - my family and my patients.  And no, I am not a suburbanite (as you humorously wrote); I live in a rural mountainous area, where the majority of my patients are tribal, like myself.

I want to add that you are correct in your report that Jim LaVallee charges a fee for his services.  All of my previous therapists charged too.  If he did not require payment, I would question the legitimacy of his practice.  Of course, my own medical practice bills my patients, as do all of my medical colleagues here in Montana.  Likewise, the credentialed professionals at the Onsite facility, which Jim refers to frequently, do also charge a fee.  You also mention Jim’s Pipe Ceremonies.  I have not participated in any of these, because they occur outside of his psychotherapy practice. 

Educatedindian, I too am an advocate for the people, like yourself.  In this capacity, I strongly suggest that you read through La Vallee’s program material completely and then set up a face-to-face meeting with him.  I am sure that if and when you do this, you will revisit your assumptions and negative conjectures, and you will tell your readers how Jim has helped even you ... because he will.  He helped me, and countless others.  I live better today with my tribe and with my own teachings because of this.

As another educated Indian, I implore you to consider the harm that you may be causing by not thoroughly investigating those on whom you report.  There are people who would benefit, like I did, from the Circle of Life Medicine Way, but who now will reject this opportunity for wholeness, because of the fear you have caused.  I feel that I must set the record straight here and now.  I also caution you that such inaccurate public statements may eventually jeopardize your own important work, because sooner or later you could be sued for slander - regardless of your true intent.  We professionals must behave as professionals, ethically and legally.

In order to authenticate your research into fraudulent healers and so-called shaman, I respectfully ask that you retract your publicized skepticism about Mr. La Vallee.  I do not know the others about whom you write, but I can assure you and your readers, that Jim La Vallee is “the real thing???.  Please be aware that many people across the US and Canada hold this man in high regard.  Thank you for posting my record of PERSONAL EXPERIENCE with this true “healer???.   

 
       
« Last Edit: June 18, 2007, 02:47:57 am by PB »

coffee_drinker

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Re: Jimmy La Vallee & Spiritual Warrior Vision
« Reply #4 on: June 18, 2007, 05:33:59 am »
I may receive a lot of criticizing for what I about to write. Many years ago I knew this young native girl that had been through a very tramatic experience.  It affected her where she was unable to function and spent several months in bed only to leave to use a restroom. Her family doctor would go to her home to treat her due to the fact she was unable to leave her home and had lost so much weight, the doctor feared she was going to die from malnutrition.
Her family sent her to one head doctor after another, in and out of hospitals, medicated her heavily. But she was not responding to their treatments.
Her family was at her bedside constantly praying for her recovery, but still she showed no improvement.  Then one of her doctors had just accepted a new counselor who happened to be Navaho from N.M. So the doctor assigned the counselor to her.
After having a session with her, the counselor took a different approach than the normal text book treatment. He used nature elements in their sesions.
It did not take her long to began to overcome her trauma and shortly after the doctors took her off all medications.
Seeing this for myself, I have learned to appreciate that sometimes there is a need especially for native people that require a different approach other than the normal textbook style remedies used by doctors. Too many are quick to over medicate their patients, all this does is put a band aid on the bullet hole, and it does not heal.
If there are native therapist that have found ways within their communities to help those that are suffering, I can only see good coming from it.


Offline Moma_porcupine

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Re: Jimmy La Vallee & Spiritual Warrior Vision
« Reply #5 on: June 18, 2007, 04:33:32 pm »
PB , I can't speak for educatedindian about this situation specifically , but I do see something in the general principals that it appears your personal feelings might have stoped you from seing .

If you are a medical professional you will understand that it is important that medical doctors are trained by recognized specialists and contine to be overseen and accountable to this board of specialists . If a person has a complaint , who would they go to ? If there begins to be a number of complaints , who is there who will hear this and keep track . Who is there who would intervene if some clients were not being helped but harmed ?

Does your friends webpage have links to a recognized and trusted community of practioners that could help people with these questions? 

Surely you don't imagine an anonymus thumbs up on a message board is sufficent for someone to be considered a qualified medical doctor nurse or therapist  ?

What Coffee drinker is saying about traditional healing is true , but these healers are all trained and supervised by people recognized as knowledgeable within a Native community .

Most of what gets posted here is comments on what people have posted about themselves in cyberspace . If someone is advertising
they are qualified to do things, but there is no way of verifying this , I don't see anything defamatory with posting what people advertise about themselves in "Research Needed" , and mentioning what raised some questions .

If a person claiming to be a Native healer is recognized by a Native community , and what they were advertising is acceptable within the standards of that community , being doubted or criticised by strangers in cyberspace , would be easily brushed off as meaningless words from stupid people who didn't know what they are talking about . Any unfounded concerns expressed in NAFPS are not likely to do even minimul damage to people who are who they say they are , and are doing good work . On the other hand , encouraging people do be cautious and ask questions probably does a lot of good.  If someone is trustworthy , asking questions will turn up good things and benifit their reputation , not harm it  . 

Offline Moma_porcupine

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Re: Jimmy La Vallee & Spiritual Warrior Vision
« Reply #6 on: June 18, 2007, 09:32:52 pm »
I found the webpage which lists this persons training and qualifications. He also offers to provide contacts for people who need them , which is a lot more responsible than a lot of the people who get posted in research needed . It looks like his credentials and training would be easy to verify , though I don't have enough knowledge to comment on any of these approaches to healing . Sorry I didn't find this before I asked if these links existed, in my earlier post .

http://www.spirit-warrior.ca/history.shtml

Quote
Education / Training
 
1986 - University of Manitoba - Special Pre-Med Studies
 
Experiential Psychotherapy Training
Onsite Training and Consulting  –
Cumberland Furnace, Tennessee, US

 
1998 April – Certificate   30 Credit Hours

1996 February – Certificate  29 Credit Hours

1995 March – Certificate  30.5 Credit Hours

1994 January – Certificate   30.5 Credit Hours

1994 December – Certificate 10 Credit Hours

 
Professional Counsellor Certificate Training
May 2000 – Anger / Rage Dynamics Education Training -  19.5 Credit Hours
 
Psychodrama Training*

1997 October - Certificate   36 Credit Hours

2000 April - Academy of Psychodrama and Therapy Certificate     18 Credit Hours

 Family Therapy Training*Satir Institute – Winnipeg, Manitoba             

1996 - September - Satir Professional Development Certificate  33 Credit Hours
 

Native Cultural Training* - Four Worlds International Institute - Lethbridge, Alberta

1995 April - Training For Trainers – Counseling Certificate             80 Credit Hours

1996 April - Training For Trainers - Holistic Healing Certificate      80 Credit Hours

 
Codependency Treatment & Training* - Rapid City, South Dakota, USA

1993 - September - Certificate

Hope Lodge / Sioux Sanitarium

 1992 - History of Healer - Rebuilding Relationships Training* - Minneapolis Minnesota

NANACOA - 4th Annual Conference – Healing Certificate*
 
12 Steps  Model Based Therapy - Tucson, Arizona, USA

1995 - September  – 29 days Experience with  12 Step Treatment*

Sierra Tucson Treatment Center, Tucson, Arizona


Transformational Personal Development Workshops

2005 - November  8 - 12  - Transcending the Seduction of Adictions -

 Kelly Tobey Workshops, Winnipeg, Manitoba
2006 - January 22  - Professional Development Training -
   Kelly Tobey Workshops - Calgary, Alberta

 
Workshops & Presentations
August 2000 - Aboriginal Healing Foundation


Presentation document on Council, Community and Individual Healing the Residential Schools Syndrome
1999 August - Presenter – “Spiritual Warrior Vision???

First People of the Americas Gathering

San Juan, Puerto Rico
 

1996 March – Workshop Presenter - “The Spiritual Warrior Vision – My Journey???

5th Native Men's Wellness - University of Oklahoma

Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA

Specialized Training

1990 - September – Certificate - ESI - Executive Security International,

Executive / Corporate / Personal Protection and Security System Specialist. Aspen, Colorado, USA*

1987 - Native Multi-Media – Television Host / Broadcaster / Reporter Training - Full Circle - Native News, Stories, Issues
and Research.

 *Certicates available should you need to see them... also contacts provided
.

coffee_drinker

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Re: Jimmy La Vallee & Spiritual Warrior Vision
« Reply #7 on: June 19, 2007, 03:17:37 pm »
Which brings me to my point. Those in the medical  profession including my mother in law that is a retired doctor, did not list her qualifications in her office. If people put as much emphasis on researching someone like Mr. La Valle, into looking into their own family physicians they might be quiet surprised on what they might find out.
To say


Surely you don't imagine an anonymus thumbs up on a message board is sufficent for someone to be considered a qualified medical doctor nurse or therapist  ?
 Any unfounded concerns expressed in NAFPS are not likely to do even minimul damage to people who are who they say they are , and are doing good work . On the other hand , encouraging people do be cautious and ask questions probably does a lot of good.  If someone is trustworthy , asking questions will turn up good things and benifit their reputation , not harm it  . 

In fact most peole do walk into a doctor's office without having any knowledge of their creditials, unaware how many received their degrees in foreign countries where the guidelines are much more flexible, many barely passing their exams, and then a course there are the medical malpractice suits.
Many doctors would be out of practice from lack of patients if they were all put under a microscope and researched, to say that "unfounded concerns expressed in nafps are not likely to do even minimul damage" is a very unrealistic view.  This view in the medical profession would do much damage to those that practice text book medicine.
I haven't ever walked into a hospital seeing a message board up with a thumbs up or down for all their doctors on staff. In fact they do the opposite. Hospitals are well known for covering up for their quack doctors. Walk into a V.A. hospital that is overseen by our government, they are some of the worse in the country.
I myself do not know Mr. La Valle, however I do believe in this case it is in my opinion some very over zealous reactions to someone who is not  #1) Selling ceremonies: #2) Does not claim to be a medicine man for sale: #3) Works in the field of psychology helping people. I don't understand why this would even be in this group researched to begin with.

Offline Moma_porcupine

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Re: Jimmy La Vallee & Spiritual Warrior Vision
« Reply #8 on: June 19, 2007, 03:33:36 pm »
Hi Coffee drinker
Actually , I mostly agree with you - though more skeptical inquirey about medical doctors and pharmacuticals would probably also be a good thing . yes there are a lot of crappy doctors out here who make people sicker , and accepting any healer without making inquiries into their training and reputation is probably not a good idea . 

A bit more research . I hadn't actually read through all this until PB suggested that educatedindian should retract his publicized skeptism . Which got me curious ;

From Mr La Vallee's webpage which educatedindian provides a link to ;

Quote
"Since that first day of true deep change in 1992, I have done more than 300 days of deep, practical experiential group treatment. Prior to that day, I had 3 solid years of getting support through Adult Children Support groups, as well as, Family Violence  Prevention training, 3 years of individual therapy and good number of those weekend training workshops, some of which where  those "safe-comfort-zone-feel-good-positive-thinking-new-age-spiritual-orgasmic" weekend information-stress-releasing workshops.  I also do some of those tell-me-what-to-do one-on-one counseling sessions.  I spent hundreds of training hours and  to changing trained and learned and healed for  and I have had over 600 hours of training."

So 600 hours of training would be about 5 months of training all together .

To put these credentials in context ;

http://www.aboutpsychotherapy.com/Tcredentials.htm

Quote
The term "psychotherapist" is unlicensed; anyone -- and I mean anyone -- can call himself a psychotherapist. The same applies to the term "therapist". "Psychologist", "psychiatrist", and "certified social worker", on the other hand, require some kind of licensure. The practitioner cannot call himself by these titles unless he has met certain state and national requirements.

http://healthyplace.healthology.com/mental-health/article1000.htm

Quote
What Kind of Training do Psychotherapists Have?

Page 2
Psychotherapist is a generic term describing anyone who practices psychotherapy. There are several different academic degrees that allow people to become psychotherapists.

Psychologists' training includes an average of five to seven years of graduate training (including a one-year, full-time internship), during which they develop expertise in psychotherapy and in personality and diagnostic assessment.


(Continued ... )

Quote
Social workers typically receive about two years of graduate training in mental health and a Master's degree. Social workers who are psychotherapists must have a LCSW (Licensed Clinical Social Worker) degree. This degree means they have received more than 3,000 hours of psychotherapy training and have passed a licensing exam.

Page 3
Quote
You should also be aware that in some states, it is legal for anyone to call him or herself a psychotherapist without having training or a license in one of the accepted fields. Before you start to work with a therapist, find out what degree he or she has and whether it is from an accredited institution. To verify that a therapist's license is up-to-date and in good standing, consult the state board that oversees licenses of mental health practitioners.

Looking at the onsite EXPERIENTIAL THERAPY INSTITUTE that Mr LaVallee's site links to , it seems this training is to supplement the skills of people who are already working as healers or psychotherapists .

Mr LaVallee may be working with his personal vision and training through traditional Elders to be an effective healer , but I am not sure the credentials and training Mr LaVallee mentions,  would necessarily qualify a person in the eyes of the accredited , mainstream non native psychological community .

www.heyokamagazine.com/HEYOKA.8.Jaye.A.LaVallee.htm
 
I see that Mr LaVallee did an interview for the Heyoka magazine . Reading through this interview , personally , I had a positive impression . It sounded like Mr LaValle is someone who is more focused on solving the problems around him , than on himself, and what he does say about himself is just his story of finding his way through his own pain  . I didn't see anything that seemed like the obvious bragging and exibitionism that is so often a warning sign . I also didn't see any sign of Mr LaVallee selling ceremonies or even including them as a part of what he does for a job.   

Mr LaVallee
Quote
I do not do ceremony with most of the people I work with, I usually pray before hand or after. For sure, I pray for my own ability to keep walking my talk.

I especially liked this ;

Quote
JL: What are the signs that people can look out for to know whether someone is a phony medicine man or not?  And if they discover one what can they do about it?

(begins ... )

Quote
When it comes to medicine people, it is not always easy to see if they are true or not, or well or not. It takes you to look, listen and feel. Know your boundaries and know our true medicine People are intelligent, caring, just, kind, and morale… and they do not lie, sexualize, or rip off. When seeking a medicine person, it is somewhat the same if you were looking for a therapist… you ask around from other people that you know.  Ask questions.

Ask questions about their “walking the talk??? and about who and how they learned from. You keep reference to what others say
as well.  Pay attention to their mannerisms. Note how they take to questions you ask and how they react. Are they kind? Are they considerate? Are they able to understand and speak about your fears, worries, trust concerns, etc?  Do you feel comfortable? What does your “gut??? say? Just note their eyes… the windows to the true heart.

Be aware that if you go to see a medicine person, you have normal human rights. Know that you can ask if they still “drink or drug??? or be aware that if they are predatorial sexually and they “come onto you??? sexual. Be respectful and honorable. Phony medicine people are all around and when it comes to exposing them be aware that not all other people will agree with you, so don’t take it to heart. Just move on and talk about.

Let other people know if you’ve had a bad experience with a phony medicine person, so they won’t do the same.
-----
( my bold )
Mr LaVallee may be a very effective healer - and I haven't seen anything that would make me doubt this - , except it isn't clear what accredited psychological organization or First Nations organization would be overseeing him , and intervening if something went off the rails . Which can be a problem .

Mr LaVallee's own recommendation that people ask questions is probably a good one .     :)

Offline educatedindian

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Re: Jimmy La Vallee & Spiritual Warrior Vision
« Reply #9 on: June 19, 2007, 08:29:54 pm »
Hi PB, and welcome,
If you take a look around the site, you'll see that the subject of integrating actual Native healing traditions (as opposed to the many frauds we usually look at) has come up a lot of times before.

I think all of us who've talked about in here (including me) have said that western medicine badly needs to learn from Native traditions. There are huge flaws in the way many university trained doctors, institutions, and people in the psych professions treat Native patients, and there are many non-Natives who could benefit from actual (again, not the many frauds that are out there) indigenous healing.

But there's also a huge problem with frauds trying to infiltrate western medicine training programs to try and gain academic acceptance of their exploitation. People like Mehl Madrona for example.

I did say that I didn't see any sign of La Vallee selling ceremony. But I do see plenty of things wrong with his approach. He's marketing himself almost entirely to whites, not Natives, as I said in the first post. And he's doing that partly with an appeal to "pity this poor NDN" and partly by exagerrating his credentials. Like Moma P points out, he's mostly been trained at quick seminars, sometimes a weekend or day in length. I don't see anything he's done that is longer than a month. PLus the "assistant to Phil Fontaine" bit, when he worked security.

If he did help you and another person, I'm glad. This thread is under Research Needed for a reason, and your account helps us figure out what to think about him. But no, I don't see how shutting down a simple looking for facts helps anyone.

I should also mention to everyone that part of what got me curious was the fact that La Vallee contacted one of our NAFPS members out of the blue and offered to "help", without knowing anything about this person, who happens to be white and European. So it seems to confirm that La Vallee is pitching his claims of being able to heal at white Europeans, at least in this instance.

And the fact that Lekay endorses him and promotes him? His record so far is batting 0.00. Lekay's promoted one exploiter after another. So far, I'm not sure if La Vallee is one. Even the disclaimer about ceremony sellers, while good advice, doesn't automatically clear him, because we've seen ceremony sellers even include *our* warnings before.

coffee_drinker

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Re: Jimmy La Vallee & Spiritual Warrior Vision
« Reply #10 on: June 19, 2007, 08:49:15 pm »
I would like to break this down in layman's terms if I may. Correct me if I am wrong here. please

Quote from posting by Educatedindian
"What he sells:

"Daily Physical Health, Nutrition, and Fitness -This implies healthy minds needs healthy bodies, and how do we achieve that? through balanced foods we eat, fitness is used also to achieve healthy minds, that's why many corporations have work out gyms for their employees, helps keep the stress levels down
Nutrition and Weight-management Seminars - Part of this also applies from number 1, with the exception many people suffering from depression to name one are either over weight or under weight.
Detoxification and Cleansing Teachings - This one also self expl. many self medicate, whether it be drugs or alcohol. What do we call rehabs? Detox units
Emotional Education / Well-Being and Capacity Building Sessions - I believe this one for those that don't having coping skills, low self esteem, etc, etc.
Self-defense, Personal, Emotional, Empowerment Development.  -Well if I was an abused wife, you bet I would like to learn self defense, this one is about mental and physical survival in abusive relationships.
Mentoring and Healthy Helping - Those that are struggling in a mental capacity, whether it be from depression, grief, to name a couple, very important to have a support system
Fun, Play, Empowering Team Assessment and Development -  Some people don't know how to relax, what better way than to get involved in sports, games, letting their hair down and enjoying themselves. 
Personal Resource Maintenance and Management Development"-  Well common sense tells me this is how to maintain a healthy lifestyle, which would include a balanced diet, exercise, good support system including family and friends, I am sure this would also include outside resources such as housing for woman with children that have been in abusive relationships, jobs, getting involved in community sponsored activities, such as children's groups, volunteer work for the needy, actually the list is endless.

What is in here that is so alarming? I'm lost on this one. Can't seem to understand what the point is. No different than all the psychiatrist programs that are offered all across this country. Why not make a list and post all of them. Or is it because this one happens to be Native?  Would he be listed if he was Swede, German, Italian, W, Indian, to name a few.Just wondering.
Ok, I am now looking at a new post, I have read the site, no where did I see "whites only" I believe it would appeal to all races, creeds and religions.
I have seen advertisements for the FBI  Looking for new agents and the front man on the ad is native, This is in "Native People" magazine, published by the Smithsonian.  But that does not stop me from reading it.  If  I walk into a bar to buy a coke does that make me an alcoholic ?
Still not understanding the whole point here. Sorry folks looks like a witch hunt going on with this one from where I'm sitting.
Some ones approach does not make them guilty of fraud.

I do not claim to be an expert in the field of psych. I am a retired viet nam vet that trained in a spec ops. I was assigned to some of the worst criminals  when Saigon fell, some of my favs saigon cowboys and the blackmarket people,   from there I was assigned into Europe training in profiling. I spent many years throughout Europe assigned to terrorist groups in the mid to late 70's. What my field of work was to read letters and break down profiling the writer.  How people write, tells a great deal about themselves. And with that I will speak no more on the subject.   After 30 years of this it becomes second nature to figure what's behind the story. That is how I have come to the conclusions that I have concernng this post.


 
[/quote]
« Last Edit: June 19, 2007, 10:13:41 pm by coffee_drinker »

coffee_drinker

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Re: Jimmy La Vallee & Spiritual Warrior Vision
« Reply #11 on: June 20, 2007, 03:16:48 am »
Call me the devil's advocate, but this is a forum to prove or disprove one's validation.



I should also mention to everyone that part of what got me curious was the fact that La Vallee contacted one of our NAFPS members out of the blue and offered to "help", without knowing anything about this person, who happens to be white and European. So it seems to confirm that La Vallee is pitching his claims of being able to heal at white Europeans, at least in this instance.



I am  researching this with all my resources, and I have been in contact with someone tonight that is not white nor European, that Mr. Valle has been in contact with speaking about personal issues. So I don't know where this statement would fit into the agenda of pitching claims to healing all white europeans.  I am the kind of person that needs that actual proof, not hearsay of what may be.
I can go through this forum and see proof of frauds, but I am only reading the what if's in this case.
This reminds of some of my early training where we did profiling on people that drove red cars.  We were trained that if a person drove a red car they were more likely to speed. That is not a fact, only a profiling of a person that drives a red car.  And being a broken record that I am, that is all I see with this one.

Offline Moma_porcupine

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Re: Jimmy La Vallee & Spiritual Warrior Vision
« Reply #12 on: June 20, 2007, 03:37:37 am »
 Coffe Drinker Reply #10
Quote
Still not understanding the whole point here. Sorry folks looks like a witch hunt going on with this one from where I'm sitting. Some ones approach does not make them guilty of fraud.

Coffee drinker ,  the words " guilty of fraud " are in your own imagination . If you look at the top of the "Research needed" page , you will see a post , "People who post in NAFPS" .

Hey ...thats us ...   ;D We are posted in NAFPS, under "Research Needed" !

I see this website as being about encouraging people to think and ask questions. Research needed means research needed .
 
If people advertise themselves to the public they should expect some public scrutiny .

From the John Lekay Heyoka interview ;
Quote
In my “healing / helping??? work with others, I follow the Circle Of Life Medicine Way, which came to me in vision. This is
about the Sacred Pipe and the Sacred Hoop and connectedness.

 If you read through the link below you will see that a lot of what Mr LaValleee is doing involves counciling based on a way that he says came to him in a vision - presumably combined what he learned from the psycotherapy training he recieved .

http:www.spirit-warrior.ca/info.shtml

Quote
Individuals, Groups, Companies, and Communities can benefit from the trainings offered. My trainings are based in the Circle
Of Life Medicine Way
which is about living consciously aware using healthy holistic healing aspects:

Quote
Participants in in my programs will:                             

    * Develop greater Emotional Capacity
    * Clarify and Distinguish basic emotions and senses and states of being
    * Re-Establish and clarify personal and professional boundaries
    * Learn essential relationship skills
    * Distinguish patterns of living and resolve them
    * Clarify relationship issues, choices, responsibilities and patterns
    * Broaden perspective on Healthy and Toxic people & relationships
    * Learn positive feedback without attacking or manipulating or shaming
    * Develop effective healthy coping skills beyond denying your inner self
    * Achieve communication skills and recognize "old traps"
    * Develop common language of expressing emotions and feelings
    * Create safe environment for healthy expression of distorted emotions
    * Develop community contacts and bring about openness to recovery

So, maybe this healing program based on a vision is effective or maybe it isn't . There are a lot of people who don't know better who will think Native wisdom is enough to supplement a modest amount of training in physcotherapy . Sometimes it is and sometimes it isn't . But there is many people with a bit of training mixed with a a bit of tradition and a vision and a workshop or self help experience to sell , who are just doing there own thing, whatever that might be, and for people to stay healthy , some caution is necessary .

As Mr LaVallee says himself . Research is needed .

If you feel like starting a thread to discuss what you think is a problem , and what you think isn't a problem , and what you think maybe a problem , and all the reasons why , it would probably be an interesting discussion . There is definently some gray areas , and different opinions .

coffee_drinker

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Re: Jimmy La Vallee & Spiritual Warrior Vision
« Reply #13 on: June 20, 2007, 11:34:12 am »
Being the gentleman I am. I thought it would be best to allow Ms. Porcupine to finish off the night with the last post.
 I have read through your post and have given it much consideration to what you have said.
Perhaps there is a misunderstanding taking place, perhaps it is the uncle sam in me coming out.
My understanding of researching to this point has been based on gathering factual information and once that is completed a report is submitted.
That is how I was trained to research
I will gather information from reliable sources and submit to the board findings on on the creditials in the clinical fiels of psychology, based here in our country.

To base research on opinions in not a realiable way of gathering facts.
Please pardon me if you find this offensive but yes mam I do know how to read, and based on that since we are under the topic of research that is how I have based my post, not with the presumptions of my imagination suggesting this forum has found Mr. La Valle guilty of fraud. That was taken out of context.

To discuss this subject on clinical creditials, would it not be common sense to have one that is schooled in the field, to make the assessments?  That is where you have missed my point. Or did you understand it and that is why you suggested perhaps I should start a new thread? In doing that it would serve no purpose to this discussion, and taking a passive/ aggressive approach by suggesting that I start a new thread has no bearing on what is being researched.
 But then I read " I see this website as being about encouraging people to think and ask questions."  Which is exactly what I have been doing.  If that is how you feel about this website, then why would you suggest I go off to another thread?  I am asking questions, maybe they are not the ones you may want to hear, but they are very legit, and should be considered.
 
If this is a research topic, is that not what we should be doing?  And not making assumptions nor taking a sentence here and there and read into perhaps something that doesn't even exist.
As I stated I will research, I would like to know if anyone has contacted Mr.Fontaine, and if so what were their findings?  I will contact him if it has not been done by anyone else.

But at this point I have seen nothing at all that would suggest this should be discussed on this forum, except perhaps guilt through association.
 

 


Offline Moma_porcupine

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Re: Jimmy La Vallee & Spiritual Warrior Vision
« Reply #14 on: June 20, 2007, 01:20:44 pm »
Coffee Drinker

I'm not uncomfortable with reasonable questions - My suggestion to start another thread is because some of the explainations of what is a concern are based on abuses that may have nothing to do with Mr La Vallee , but some people may not understand that , and may unfairly think it is Mr LaVallee we are discussing . 

I don't think I took your comment out of context.

it seems you missed my central point , which is ;

Research Needed means we don't have all the facts but we do have questions

and

There are a lot of people who don't know better who will think Native wisdom is enough to supplement a modest amount of
training in physcotherapy .
The question isn't about the quality of the psychotherapy,  but more about the "Native Wisdom" which Mr LaVallee is using as a main advertising point .

I know many Native people who work other Native people in various fields of social work / psyhcotherapy , some with the same amount of pshycotheraputic training as Mr Lavallee, and some of these people are very effective . I have never known any of these people to advertise ,  especially to put so much emphasis on their Native culture in their advertisements , as the Native community they mainly work within , knows that already . 

As a general principal , I don't agree with candy coating a modest training in phsychotherapy in something resembling  Native ways to make it more palatable to non natives . Not say that is happening here,  but it does happen a lot , and in my opinion people need to be cautious of anyone advertising an Indianized version of psychotherapy  .