General > Frauds

Carlos Castaneda

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garners:
Well AH .  I do not know you. I am just speaking to the issue of supporting pretend Indian story authors and their creations .. no matter what comes from their imaginary characters mouths.
 If they garner support with their fraud then they are worse frauds .. more harmful..
not better.

yes that is a long list of Shamanic practitioners. and it is only a drop in the bucket.
The lists of people graduating as Shamanic teachers of supposed magical Indian wisdom is so long now that ten posts like that would not be near enough to name them all. And much of this scam coming in large part because Castaneda's successful fraud of don Juan supposedly spoke words of wisdom that impressed people.

Anyway I realize that this is not a place to keep discussing the same fraud again and again.
I appreciate that NAFPS identifies the frauds and moves on.

That is part of what makes NAFPS a useful place for people to come and receive information on Indian culture theives and abusers... and their deceits.

Thankyou NAFPS.

Defend the Sacred:

--- Quote from: A.H. on April 22, 2008, 07:23:25 am ---Only - Lynn V.Andrews?? And talking about rumours. Not some argument... I mean - even the biggest idiot can be inspired or claim a wish to be the next Einstein or Nikola Tesla (not that I associate Castaneda with those minds) That woman is really easily seen through superficial, utterly moronic new-ager...
--- End quote ---

I only called it a rumour because I can't remember the exact quote, and can't find it online to cite it. IIRC, David Carson, in an interview in a New England Nuage tabloid, in the late 1980s, said that Andrews had approached him to ghostwrite or co-write the Medicine Woman books. He said they plotted how they would market her as "the female Castaneda," and tap into the Women's Spirituality market.

IIRC, Carson said he couldn't go into much detail, as he took a hefty cash settlement in the lawsuit. IIRC, he said he sued her because their deal was he wouldn't be credited for his input - the better to market it as her personal experience - but he did expect to be paid. He says she did not pay him, and then tried to claim he hadn't helped her. IIRC, he said that when he won the settlement, part of the terms were that he couldn't discuss it in public anymore.

I remember in this interview he used her exploitation of Indigenous cultures as one of the reasons he'd gone public about it. But of course, by his own admission, he'd agreed to the scam in the first place. And then he proceeded to write a bunch of shameon books himself.

So, I only called it "rumours" as I don't know that he's the most credible source, and I don't have the quotes at hand. I did find his story of the collaboration with Andrews believable - it held together and made sense. And, IIRC, I think there was confirmation that he got a sizable amount of hush money, which, if it's true, also gives weight to his claims. Having read her books, I also believe that the first ones were written by someone different from the later ones. Whether this means she wrote the later ones herself, or has a new ghostwriter, I don't know.

Sorry to take this off-topic from Castaneda. I don't think it takes anything but skimming their books to see Andrews is a Castaneda clone. But I also think it's relevant and credible that following in Castaneda's footsteps was her conscious plan from the very beginning. Her plan, and thousands more.

A.H.:
This part of debate came to fine closure.

I already voiced too much tribute to the man as a collateral damage of presenting my views. I am guilty of being idiot enough to repeat that.

I speak again to this topic (I wish to close with it too) only because of Ari's last (and initial) post. Maybe this could be PM, but maybe it is also useful to any other recovering "wannabe-warrior".

Ari, I don't know your current position - world view and motives that attracted you before to Castaneda's hoax.

The following words are not intended to offend you but maybe suggest something useful if my observation is right.

As I read from your posts you seem being cheated by Castaneda's organization and now became disenchanted with all the ideas and "warrior path", etc. And went on a vengeance mission.

You seem to read his works very literally and took active part in mimicking the form of "wannabe-warriors" as a part  of Cleargreen workshops.

"Petty tyrant" (forget the origin for a second) can be very useful if you take its essence... You have probably dealt with some buerocrats in your life. Maybe you experienced military service and its petty tyrants, you might have experienced a petty tyrant boss, you could have bad luck with some unfulfilled professors that think their mission in school is to torment children not to teach...

I had experienced some of those and it was a relief to be able not to take their anger and violence on me, but keep smiling inside and thinking how dumb they were in their petty violence and I fought back with being even a better student, supplying all the paperwork needed or whatever was the "petty tyrant" idea of brigning me down - and just ignoring their violent approach - this why "bother with idiot?" approach is an essence of "petty tyrant" to me.

You don't go into direct confrontation that will cause you much energy - you just play his game back to him. Ignoring his violence.
But if you apply this on good people not on real "petty tyrants" - this is than manipulation...


You don't need to kill the annoying buerocrat that deliberately makes your life worse because he has some little power over you, but if you would be in a concentration camp or similar - the final act of freedom might also include killing the tormentor.

But let's stay where we are - so "petty tyrant" idea is not harmful - it is very reasonable not to accept their violence and be psychologically harmed by the people that accidentally appear in a position where they can abuse their power over you...

Not to speak about another idea that you might understand as psychologically harmful - having death as an ally.
You can understand that literally and mimick some dark and deranged "warrior path" or you can understand that as a very good idea that really frees you psychologically: the ultimate thing that can happen to you is death (if you don't believe in any other superstitions ofcourse).
When you really understand (feel) this reality of being confronted with your ultimate annihilation your life choices are freed from many petty concerns. I know I did many big decicions towards less financially rewarding and more daring life-style because I knew the worst thing that can happen is to die and that I certainly will someday. So why not do something meaningful in the meantime? Why worry about unimportant things if I can die in the next moment. This idea is psychologically very powerful - this is actually a positive application. This idea originates from some of existentialist philosophy and literature (esp. Camus, Sartre) where it is mostly applied in a nihilist version which can be more psychologically harmful. 

So, why I wrote this reply to you Ari - I suggest to you to stop delving in that space (Sustained Reaction) devoted to Castaneda (even though it is supposedly "negative" devotion) - you still debate his work, criticize his work and denounce some ideas that have their valid existance elsewhere where you could research and study them seriously. Why bother with Castaneda if you can move forward?

Many ideas that Don Juan worded are not some vain new-age gibberish but stolen treasures from other cultures - mostly Buddhism - they are not even too distorted in some places in the books - some essence of the ideas remained but was presented in a distorted setting (as old Native American knowledge). As I said before - that is a part of the appeal - because some of that knowledge is real in its essence, but it is presented in a false and fraudulent way.

And the most harmful effect is that when you realise that and denounce Castaneda you also denounce those ideas that are valid - in their ORIGINAL form in other cultures.

Castaneda was a liar who spoke some truth and many lies - that is a problem I guess...

So yes - forget the path of a warrior - but there is still the path of freedom. I was delighted ("saved") by discovery of this path. But if you were attracted to the power-gaining aspect of Castaneda's books you might not find any satisfaction in those other books and traditions I will suggest to you now.

If you are still interested in the "path of freedom and liberation" and you want to know more about the nature of reality apart from "common-sense" everyday whereabouts this might be a good starting point:

Read the good translations with valid commentaries (if any) of I CHING & Taoist masters (try not to join any sect claiming their origin in ancient chinese traditions afterwards, hehe) (i don't know which are good books in English - but we have some very good scholars and philosophers whose translations I read in my own language) Always keep in mind that you are already confronted with some interpretation - but you can sense the core ideas after reading much literature on the same topic.

Read valid Zen books (stay away from Zen new-age and sects! - even the old monastic ones, hehe) - especially some Japanese zen & western philosophy scholars found many connections between western existentialism, phenomenology & Zen. So you can also check some of the european authors - I wouldn't suggest Heidegger so much than I would Karl Jaspers and some Husserl. There are also many others... if you will go into this you will discover yourself..

Still remember that knowledge is dispersed and especially in philosphy - ideas evolve and are constantly rethought - there is no final truth or occult wisdom to cling onto - not one person has all the answers and you will synthesize your own personal view in any case...

A very helpful site is Karl Jaspers forum where they continue in his spirit - not directly about him or his writings - but they (pre)publish articles that are mostly dealing with the conception of reality, perception, etc.

Again - be selective - truth doesn't come on golden plate.

http://www.kjf.ca/ (read their statement of purpose and you will understand better what they are all about)

I would also deeply suggest works of Shinichi Hisamatsu. Especially about the Zen Nothingness.

There is also a website that continues his message:

http://www.ne.jp/asahi/fas/soc/

An if you haven't - you can discover many origins of Castaneda ideas in Richard De Mille criticial books.

This is only start - I am really interested what the original NDN "philosophical" legacy and its contemporary interprets (scholars with indigenous origins and insider gaze) have to say - I just ordered a couple of "valid" books.

There is still much life to waste, hehe.

But don't waste your time just critically debating Castaneda's legacy on some sites devoted to him - use his sources instead. 

If this suggestions are of no use to you and I judged your position wrong - just forget and ignore it.


I wish to end writing about Castaneda here.


best to all

garners:
For someone claiming not to defend Castaneda AH and saying
"Ok - enough from me on this topic -"
You sure keep going and going.

I think you are totally off base with your advice to Ari and she probably should ignore your invite to play new age intellectual and get hooked on the ideas you claim to still be hooked on.

To begin with Castaneda ideas and Buddhism are polar opposites and your defense of Castaneda by claiming it has a Buddhist source or an Asian source is without any real correlation ...unless you are speaking New Age Buddhism or other New Age treatments of Asian Philosophies such as Taoism.

Also your advice that Ari should apply don juan  principles and not confront abuse directly seems very misguided to me.
If Indians and their supporters were to just wait for the abusers and frauds to defeat themselves by humoring them they would not get very far.
 It is the confrontational activist position that is finally making headway against the frauds by forcing people to think clearer about the deceits and making business as usual for frauds and wannabes much more difficult for them.

I encourage Ari to act directly and strongly against what she protests.

And besides ...advising "stalking the "petty tyrant is just giving Castaneda lip service again. I will remind you that in the books the main example of stalking the petty tyrant was a premeditated act that ended up with a killing.
 And all this murderous retribution and deception was of course perpetrated by an Indian.
All the twisted absurd game playing behaviors in Castaneda books is supposed to be Magical wise old Indian lore.

 Buddhism springs from compassion and disipating suffering. Nothing in Castaneda's fiction has this as an objective..


Now you rationalize that Castaneda's  ideas are valid because they have older unclaimed non Indian correlations.. but you have not and never could prove this. It is only intellectual speculation at best.

Castaneda is not defensible. Sure maybe his books are defensible for you
You have made that clear AH. Why I am not sure... seems you are maybe a bit of a don Juan roleplayer
..quoting don Juan and suggesting to use his techniques.

 I think that claiming that Castaneda's ideas are sourced from valid sources and therefor good and helpful .. is no different that posting here  that things any other frauds say and sing in pseudo sweatlodges or in paid for blessings, prayers, books and talks are from genuine sources so they are good and have helped you. 
What good is this doing the cause of NAFPS?

 It seems to me that this website is about stopping fraud not rationalizing it.

Ari:
A. H., Juanism expressing extremely selfish, egocentric and hostile stance a person can take in relation to the world. Exactly what unhappy rebellious teenager mentality could appropriate very well.

Philosophy of juanistic warriors way is fraudulent in it's nature and it gave life to fraudulent New Age worldwide action. Validated as initiation into mysterious Indigenous way of knowledge. Non fiction.

Yes, personally i was affected badly by my involvement into believing this confusion to be highly meaningful system of esoteric knowledge and it hurts even more to see it was composed  exploiting fraudulently the whole cultural group of people.       

A. H., I was witnessing plenty of cases of believers playing Juanistic warriors game to see that you seems to be deliberately stalking the tyrants here... patiently, cunning, sweet, ruthless... Well, congrats! You got us.

 

 

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