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#21
Frauds / Re: Request for Help from Rese...
Last post by Sparks - July 23, 2026, 01:50:23 AMQuote from: educatedindian on July 07, 2026, 09:04:53 PMClicking the link leads to downloading the article.
--------
https://albertalawreview.com/index.php/ALR/article/download/2737/2686/3015
THE DEAD SLEEP QUIET:
HISTORY OF THE ORGANIZED PSEUDOLEGAL COMMERCIAL ARGUMENT PHENOMENON IN CANADA – PART II
DONALD J. NETOLITZKY*
This long and interesting post was difficult to digest. Also, I wanted to see Part I. Here is what I found:
Ways to access Part I and other ways to access Part II (without direct download):
PART I:
https://albertalawreview.com/index.php/ALR/article/view/422
https://scispace.com/pdf/the-history-of-the-organized-pseudolegal-commercial-argument-4o6qkka7pp.pdf
PART II:
https://albertalawreview.com/index.php/ALR/article/view/2737
https://albertalawreview.com/index.php/ALR/article/view/2737/2686
#22
Frauds / Re: Thomas Whitefeather
Last post by Sandy S - July 22, 2026, 04:22:43 PMPart three:
Hereditary Chief Vekesohvokomaestse Thomas Whitefeather, Chief of the Earth Water Nation and, Eagle Staff keeper of the Cheyenne Sacred Spiritual Pipe and Association with other Tribal Nations other sacred instruments the highest spiritual authority sovereign authority treaty authority of Turtle Island and the world,
merrion v. jicarlla White mountain Apache tribe, (455 us 130 1982) holding that Native/Indian Nations have the power to tax (Non-natives "Star-beings") based on their power as a nation and treaty rights and authority to exclude others
White mountain Apache tribe v.brecker 448 us 136 142-1980 there is no rigid rule by which to resolve the question whether a particular state law may be applied to any native / Indian reservation or tribal members
executor de Son tort
and of his own wrong is one who without lawful authority undertakes to act as executor of a deceased to make thin executor de son tort, the act of the party must be one unlawful to buy asserting ownership, as taking goods or canceling a bond, and not committing just a mere trespass Dyer, 105, 166, cro eliz 144, so forth the United States corporation is in violation of executor de son tort,
an absolute native title also known as a perfect title to a property is free of any encumbersomes or deficiencies and absolute title gives unequivocal right of ownership to the owner and cannot be disputed or challenged by anyone else this is opposed to titles with liens attachments or a judgments against them, fiduciary duty and responsibility would be liens and judgments against them,
Cherokee Nation versus Georgia Native/Indian nations are not subject to state or federal or Congressional or international laws
Hereditary Chief Vekesohvokomaestse Thomas Whitefeather, Chief of the Earth Water Nation and, Eagle Staff keeper of the Cheyenne Sacred Spiritual Pipe and Association with other Tribal Nations other sacred instruments the highest spiritual authority sovereign authority treaty authority of Turtle Island and the world,
merrion v. jicarlla White mountain Apache tribe, (455 us 130 1982) holding that Native/Indian Nations have the power to tax (Non-natives "Star-beings") based on their power as a nation and treaty rights and authority to exclude others
White mountain Apache tribe v.brecker 448 us 136 142-1980 there is no rigid rule by which to resolve the question whether a particular state law may be applied to any native / Indian reservation or tribal members
executor de Son tort
and of his own wrong is one who without lawful authority undertakes to act as executor of a deceased to make thin executor de son tort, the act of the party must be one unlawful to buy asserting ownership, as taking goods or canceling a bond, and not committing just a mere trespass Dyer, 105, 166, cro eliz 144, so forth the United States corporation is in violation of executor de son tort,
an absolute native title also known as a perfect title to a property is free of any encumbersomes or deficiencies and absolute title gives unequivocal right of ownership to the owner and cannot be disputed or challenged by anyone else this is opposed to titles with liens attachments or a judgments against them, fiduciary duty and responsibility would be liens and judgments against them,
Cherokee Nation versus Georgia Native/Indian nations are not subject to state or federal or Congressional or international laws
#23
Frauds / Re: Thomas Whitefeather
Last post by Sandy S - July 22, 2026, 04:20:46 PMPart two:
I ____________ object to the Treaties that were signed before I was even born and the Corporate Constitution did not speak for all Native Peoples of the land inherent free people, they where not signed by myself ______________ so it does not pervy to me, those who did form the agreement were not sent from the crown, we did not sign in doctrine with any Europeans, they signed them with us the Original peoples, natural laws are our laws it was translated in to the English common law language but it is still our laws, it comes from the Cheyenne Eagle Staff/Peace Pipe Treaty and Cheyenne and Apache Great Laws of peace Earth/Sky, the Europeans took what was already perfect and manipulated the laws to benefit the corporate entity of the United States/Canadian Corporate Governments, My _____________ people did not agree to the United States/Canadian Corporate Governments and Amendments that where made and were never called into negotiate these amendments within the treaties, the United States/Canadian Corporate Governments is arbitrary from our Natural Laws, The Natural laws of our Natural lands stands for all time, I am ____________ free sovereign, I am of creation and creator that of the original creation of the land and water, I object to the jurisdiction, I _______________ object to the United States/Canadian government corporation as a whole, as the original people of this land, natural laws is law, and common law is of crime and punishment not life,©®
Free Treaty Nations have the Authority to form its own government advocate legal cases within borders of the nation which is from North Pole to South Pole Canada, "U.S. etc", Mexico, South America, these are all together are called ("Turtle Island") and ("Shadow of the Turtle") some even call it ("Eagle and Condor") "Federal government" has had the trust responsibility to protect Tribal, ("NOT NATIVE") and Assets resources and Treaty Authority, Federal trust responsibility mandates both moral and legal, fiduciary obligations to protect tribal treaty authority and assets and of Indian affairs and other resources in perpetuity to avoid a conflict of interest the responsibility of managing the land assets handled by the bureau of Indian affairs, the bureau of Land Management as well as other bureaus of trust, funds, administration, leadership, tribal government, law enforcement, doi, international treaty agreements, without overreach of fiduciary obligations, Native/Indian nations can assert their supreme political Independence and are not mere States as described in (USC 28 subsection 1604) which are of course their sovereign powers of author and authority as original people and original nation and since they're treaty is evidence of international agreement between two separate sovereign Nations which is not an alliance, and it's Nation to Nation, "Example" (Federal government to Federal government, Country to Country), these Treaties are already listed at state department now let's have new office set up to respectfully deal with resolving issues of conflict between the treating of Native/Indian Nations of Earth/Sky (Not Star) and the United States corporation of the crown of British colonies since treaties are not subject to judicial review and in accordance to (U.S. code 28 subsection 1604), so it is important for Native/Indian Earth/Sky Nations ("NOT Star) to remain an "I.G.O./S.G.O." and not through the United Nations since "I.G.O/S.G.O" status is that of Internal Government Organization/Supra-natural Government Organization to preserve the original integrity of our Native/Indian Nations identity of Earth/Sky NOT ("Star"), territory, jurisdiction as well as our original country, and it's Paramount that we hold to this status and not let it be compromised, so that our future generations may also enjoy the freedoms that we inherited from our elders and ancestors, and ancient ones as a further measure to reassure the safety, and protection of our peoples and our Native/Indian Nations ("NOT Star"),
I ____________ object to the Treaties that were signed before I was even born and the Corporate Constitution did not speak for all Native Peoples of the land inherent free people, they where not signed by myself ______________ so it does not pervy to me, those who did form the agreement were not sent from the crown, we did not sign in doctrine with any Europeans, they signed them with us the Original peoples, natural laws are our laws it was translated in to the English common law language but it is still our laws, it comes from the Cheyenne Eagle Staff/Peace Pipe Treaty and Cheyenne and Apache Great Laws of peace Earth/Sky, the Europeans took what was already perfect and manipulated the laws to benefit the corporate entity of the United States/Canadian Corporate Governments, My _____________ people did not agree to the United States/Canadian Corporate Governments and Amendments that where made and were never called into negotiate these amendments within the treaties, the United States/Canadian Corporate Governments is arbitrary from our Natural Laws, The Natural laws of our Natural lands stands for all time, I am ____________ free sovereign, I am of creation and creator that of the original creation of the land and water, I object to the jurisdiction, I _______________ object to the United States/Canadian government corporation as a whole, as the original people of this land, natural laws is law, and common law is of crime and punishment not life,©®
Free Treaty Nations have the Authority to form its own government advocate legal cases within borders of the nation which is from North Pole to South Pole Canada, "U.S. etc", Mexico, South America, these are all together are called ("Turtle Island") and ("Shadow of the Turtle") some even call it ("Eagle and Condor") "Federal government" has had the trust responsibility to protect Tribal, ("NOT NATIVE") and Assets resources and Treaty Authority, Federal trust responsibility mandates both moral and legal, fiduciary obligations to protect tribal treaty authority and assets and of Indian affairs and other resources in perpetuity to avoid a conflict of interest the responsibility of managing the land assets handled by the bureau of Indian affairs, the bureau of Land Management as well as other bureaus of trust, funds, administration, leadership, tribal government, law enforcement, doi, international treaty agreements, without overreach of fiduciary obligations, Native/Indian nations can assert their supreme political Independence and are not mere States as described in (USC 28 subsection 1604) which are of course their sovereign powers of author and authority as original people and original nation and since they're treaty is evidence of international agreement between two separate sovereign Nations which is not an alliance, and it's Nation to Nation, "Example" (Federal government to Federal government, Country to Country), these Treaties are already listed at state department now let's have new office set up to respectfully deal with resolving issues of conflict between the treating of Native/Indian Nations of Earth/Sky (Not Star) and the United States corporation of the crown of British colonies since treaties are not subject to judicial review and in accordance to (U.S. code 28 subsection 1604), so it is important for Native/Indian Earth/Sky Nations ("NOT Star) to remain an "I.G.O./S.G.O." and not through the United Nations since "I.G.O/S.G.O" status is that of Internal Government Organization/Supra-natural Government Organization to preserve the original integrity of our Native/Indian Nations identity of Earth/Sky NOT ("Star"), territory, jurisdiction as well as our original country, and it's Paramount that we hold to this status and not let it be compromised, so that our future generations may also enjoy the freedoms that we inherited from our elders and ancestors, and ancient ones as a further measure to reassure the safety, and protection of our peoples and our Native/Indian Nations ("NOT Star"),
#24
Frauds / Re: Thomas Whitefeather
Last post by Sandy S - July 22, 2026, 04:19:32 PMPart one of Thomas Whitefeather's sovereign citizen claims:
This form is with Native Law International an Galactic Native Prime with
Chief Vekesohvokomaestse Thomas Whitefeather of the land
Hereditary an Chief of the Waters
Cheyenne Nation, White mountain Apache
Cheyenne Dogmen, Apache Crown Dancer
Intertribal Buffalo Council ("white buffalo man")
International Buffalo Council ("white buffalo womb")
special legal advisor to indigenous affairs and the global indigenous council
As one of the original ____________ of the land I _________ stand with sovereign immunity I have not waived my sovereignty at any point in time, I have never contracted my being or entity to the corporation of United States/Canadian government, this land is my home and I have always called it turtle island, I _____________am of the same author, authority, privileges, liberties, rights, and immunities, as my elders and ancestors and ancient ones of the people of the absolute native title, I ______________am of this land, the land of my ____________ ancestors, I ___________am of the free and free of the jurisdiction of the corporations government, so long as the sunshines, the grass grows, and the river flows, is clearly a fact that those cannot be taken from me ___________ without my consent and bringing death to all for that phrase is part of all life, to claim to have jurisdiction over me ____________ is fraudulent without any proof given being of my own Nation ____________ a true first Nation original of the land with free sovereign immunity,
I ____________ am able to challenge jurisdiction with habeas corpus, once the habeas corpus is filed, the burden of proof of jurisdiction falls upon the corporation, under the freedom of information act, I _____________ remand proof of the contract and I cannot assume that the ______________ Corporate Government has it, proof of jurisdiction would be a contract that says I _________ consented to jurisdiction over me, and clarifying that I am one of the original peoples of the land, my free sovereign status is to be acknowledged and no one can have jurisdiction over me ____________ without my consent, I am free sovereign anywhere I go on this land from east to west and North to south, it does not matter if I am in one district of a province or on a reservation or off a reservation, Canada,North America, America and South America is one big reservation, also known as Turtle Island to We Original Habitants of this land, I _____________ am protected on all land, the corporate entity of the Canadian government of North America corporation may have created a reservation for the Native Peoples but they also created a reservation for the (non-natives "Star-beings") as well, that is why my people are able to hunt, fish and gather medicines anywhere we please, all land is reservation within the borders of Turtle Island, as one of the original people of the land, I ____________ know who I am, being in good standing and sound mind, I am able to choose to emancipate myself from the United States/Canadian corporate governments, tribal corporate governments and my parents, as one of the free sovereign immunity it is my unallitable author right to speak on my __________ authority to disassociate, Furthermore any contracts of my parents cannot be bound to me ______________ as no contract can be imposed on a child as a human being/entity we are all born from another human being/entity, this means that each individual will not grow up living the same life or attaining the same knowledge, to assume that every individual born on this land chooses to be a citizen of the corporation Canadian government or corporation North American government is frivolous, I _____________have not waived my free sovereignty and no one can assume that I did, this is why contracts are used to this day in any Court of laws, having a assumption is not proof of contract I am my own self-government, I follow natural laws and my word is my writ, the difference between me _____________ and the Corporate government is I have prosperity from my ancestors, prosperity from the land, prosperity of my ______________ roots of traditions/ culture/ceremonies/songs/medicines/drums/rattles and original teachings of our creation story of Turtle Island,
I _________________ have dominion here and the Corporate government has no DNA and no relation to this land, I get my free sovereignty from my ancestors, my blood comes from their blood this land is the home of my people, we have nowhere else to go nor do we have to leave, I do not need to ask permission for my author or authority status, or to be who I am, I have absolute Native title, I am of a new generation and I do not agree to any Corporation Treaty I can create my own, I am fully capable of handling my own affairs, the corporations and their fiduciary responsibility to me is no more, I am the only one who has power over me, the non intercourse act does clarify that I am not subjected to enter any contracts and I am able to free self-govern with my _______________ Cheyenne Peace Pipe Treaties, _______________ Cheyenne and Apache great laws of Peace, I come from this land/Sky ("not Stars") and I have DNA that matches this land, we are the host nation, the Corporate United States and Canadian government Constitution came from the Native People of the land inherent free people, the Native Peoples of the land/Sky (not "Star") are the only people that remain with sovereign immunity,
This form is with Native Law International an Galactic Native Prime with
Chief Vekesohvokomaestse Thomas Whitefeather of the land
Hereditary an Chief of the Waters
Cheyenne Nation, White mountain Apache
Cheyenne Dogmen, Apache Crown Dancer
Intertribal Buffalo Council ("white buffalo man")
International Buffalo Council ("white buffalo womb")
special legal advisor to indigenous affairs and the global indigenous council
As one of the original ____________ of the land I _________ stand with sovereign immunity I have not waived my sovereignty at any point in time, I have never contracted my being or entity to the corporation of United States/Canadian government, this land is my home and I have always called it turtle island, I _____________am of the same author, authority, privileges, liberties, rights, and immunities, as my elders and ancestors and ancient ones of the people of the absolute native title, I ______________am of this land, the land of my ____________ ancestors, I ___________am of the free and free of the jurisdiction of the corporations government, so long as the sunshines, the grass grows, and the river flows, is clearly a fact that those cannot be taken from me ___________ without my consent and bringing death to all for that phrase is part of all life, to claim to have jurisdiction over me ____________ is fraudulent without any proof given being of my own Nation ____________ a true first Nation original of the land with free sovereign immunity,
I ____________ am able to challenge jurisdiction with habeas corpus, once the habeas corpus is filed, the burden of proof of jurisdiction falls upon the corporation, under the freedom of information act, I _____________ remand proof of the contract and I cannot assume that the ______________ Corporate Government has it, proof of jurisdiction would be a contract that says I _________ consented to jurisdiction over me, and clarifying that I am one of the original peoples of the land, my free sovereign status is to be acknowledged and no one can have jurisdiction over me ____________ without my consent, I am free sovereign anywhere I go on this land from east to west and North to south, it does not matter if I am in one district of a province or on a reservation or off a reservation, Canada,North America, America and South America is one big reservation, also known as Turtle Island to We Original Habitants of this land, I _____________ am protected on all land, the corporate entity of the Canadian government of North America corporation may have created a reservation for the Native Peoples but they also created a reservation for the (non-natives "Star-beings") as well, that is why my people are able to hunt, fish and gather medicines anywhere we please, all land is reservation within the borders of Turtle Island, as one of the original people of the land, I ____________ know who I am, being in good standing and sound mind, I am able to choose to emancipate myself from the United States/Canadian corporate governments, tribal corporate governments and my parents, as one of the free sovereign immunity it is my unallitable author right to speak on my __________ authority to disassociate, Furthermore any contracts of my parents cannot be bound to me ______________ as no contract can be imposed on a child as a human being/entity we are all born from another human being/entity, this means that each individual will not grow up living the same life or attaining the same knowledge, to assume that every individual born on this land chooses to be a citizen of the corporation Canadian government or corporation North American government is frivolous, I _____________have not waived my free sovereignty and no one can assume that I did, this is why contracts are used to this day in any Court of laws, having a assumption is not proof of contract I am my own self-government, I follow natural laws and my word is my writ, the difference between me _____________ and the Corporate government is I have prosperity from my ancestors, prosperity from the land, prosperity of my ______________ roots of traditions/ culture/ceremonies/songs/medicines/drums/rattles and original teachings of our creation story of Turtle Island,
I _________________ have dominion here and the Corporate government has no DNA and no relation to this land, I get my free sovereignty from my ancestors, my blood comes from their blood this land is the home of my people, we have nowhere else to go nor do we have to leave, I do not need to ask permission for my author or authority status, or to be who I am, I have absolute Native title, I am of a new generation and I do not agree to any Corporation Treaty I can create my own, I am fully capable of handling my own affairs, the corporations and their fiduciary responsibility to me is no more, I am the only one who has power over me, the non intercourse act does clarify that I am not subjected to enter any contracts and I am able to free self-govern with my _______________ Cheyenne Peace Pipe Treaties, _______________ Cheyenne and Apache great laws of Peace, I come from this land/Sky ("not Stars") and I have DNA that matches this land, we are the host nation, the Corporate United States and Canadian government Constitution came from the Native People of the land inherent free people, the Native Peoples of the land/Sky (not "Star") are the only people that remain with sovereign immunity,
#25
Frauds / Re: Thomas Whitefeather
Last post by Sandy S - July 22, 2026, 02:17:25 AMHe posted a Facebook video on July 6th. He is very difficult to listen to. He speaks in third person which means that he says his full supposed title "VekesohvoKomaestse Thomas Whitefeather" repeatedly.
He uses dense sovereign citizen jargon. Along with pseudo pan-Indian/new age type rhetoric.
He states that he is a free man, no one controls him, that he is a good man. He says that because Facebook is on the stock market it is therefore a digital newspaper and that means when he posts on Facebook his posts are then law.
He says that he made a treaty with spirits and with his parents that he would give up his "spoken Cheyenne language" to "help everyone get along". So he is not allowed to speak Cheyenne because that would break agreements.
He says he was born with his feet backwards.
He expresses grandiose and paranoid delusions. He feels persecuted. He believes people owe him.
I think this is mainly unstable mental health challenges? He is definitely a sovereign citizen, that is what he preaches. He doesn't have a large following. But he hassles people, claims he is a special global shaman, is abusive, transphobic, grifter, and likely not fun for any law enforcement who encounters him.
He uses dense sovereign citizen jargon. Along with pseudo pan-Indian/new age type rhetoric.
He states that he is a free man, no one controls him, that he is a good man. He says that because Facebook is on the stock market it is therefore a digital newspaper and that means when he posts on Facebook his posts are then law.
He says that he made a treaty with spirits and with his parents that he would give up his "spoken Cheyenne language" to "help everyone get along". So he is not allowed to speak Cheyenne because that would break agreements.
He says he was born with his feet backwards.
He expresses grandiose and paranoid delusions. He feels persecuted. He believes people owe him.
I think this is mainly unstable mental health challenges? He is definitely a sovereign citizen, that is what he preaches. He doesn't have a large following. But he hassles people, claims he is a special global shaman, is abusive, transphobic, grifter, and likely not fun for any law enforcement who encounters him.
#26
Frauds / Re: Thomas Whitefeather
Last post by Sandy S - July 22, 2026, 01:19:23 AMA supporter of his who is also a sovereign citizen posted recently on Facebook:
"Am Not A Trophy !
WASHINGTON STATE RELEASE VekesohvoKomaestse Thomas Whitefeather"
She included a past photo of him, with herself and another person.
I checked the Washington State Court Records index and then the Lincoln County WA jail roster.
He was booked July 9, 2026 for driving without a license and for refusal to comply with police.
This sounds like classic sovereign citizen behavior.
It appears he has not yet been released from jail.
Lincoln County, WA jail roster can be searched through here: https://www.co.lincoln.wa.us/248/Jail
Some of the same info here: https://recentlybooked.com/wa/lincoln/thomas-whitefeather~2941_tw079202620700
-----------
"Sovereign citizens believe they are not under the jurisdiction of the federal government and consider themselves exempt from U.S. law. They use a variety of conspiracy theories and falsehoods to justify their beliefs and their activities, some of which are illegal or violent. Their rejection of legal documentation such as Social Security numbers, driver's licenses, vehicle registration and other forms of government identification led to frequent interactions with law enforcement."
https://www.splcenter.org/resources/extremist-files/sovereign-citizens-movement/
"Am Not A Trophy !
WASHINGTON STATE RELEASE VekesohvoKomaestse Thomas Whitefeather"
She included a past photo of him, with herself and another person.
I checked the Washington State Court Records index and then the Lincoln County WA jail roster.
He was booked July 9, 2026 for driving without a license and for refusal to comply with police.
This sounds like classic sovereign citizen behavior.
It appears he has not yet been released from jail.
Lincoln County, WA jail roster can be searched through here: https://www.co.lincoln.wa.us/248/Jail
Some of the same info here: https://recentlybooked.com/wa/lincoln/thomas-whitefeather~2941_tw079202620700
-----------
"Sovereign citizens believe they are not under the jurisdiction of the federal government and consider themselves exempt from U.S. law. They use a variety of conspiracy theories and falsehoods to justify their beliefs and their activities, some of which are illegal or violent. Their rejection of legal documentation such as Social Security numbers, driver's licenses, vehicle registration and other forms of government identification led to frequent interactions with law enforcement."
https://www.splcenter.org/resources/extremist-files/sovereign-citizens-movement/
#27
Non-Frauds / Re: Quora Answers
Last post by educatedindian - July 20, 2026, 02:54:42 PMhttps://www.quora.com/Why-was-the-Unification-Church-created/answer/Al-Carroll-17
Why was the Unification Church created?
Al Carroll
PhD in History, Arizona State University Jun 27
Most of the evidences points toward the supposed church being a useful front for the KCIA (South Korean version of the CIA) and South Korean and Japanese organized crime. It generates huge amounts of income by its control of its followers donating all their income and time, plus the following businesses:
One Up Enterprises Inc.
International Association for Peace and Economic Development (IAED)
Pyeonghwa Motors, an automobile manufacturer
Cheongshim Hospital
Ilhwa Company, producer of ginseng products
Isshin Hospital
Tongil Group pharmaceuticals, tourism, and publishing
Tongil Heavy Industries, machine parts and hardware for the South Korean military
Little Angels Children's Folk Ballet of Korea
Master Marine, shipbuilding and fishing company in Alabama
International Seafood of Kodiak, Alaska
Master Marine owning a factory in Las Vegas
True World Foods, sushi, restaurants, and markets
One Mind Farms
News World Communications includes newspapers New York City Tribune, Noticias del Mundo, United Press International, The World and I, Tiempos del Mundo, The Segye Ilbo (South Korea), The Sekai Nippo (Japan), the Zambezi Times (South Africa), The Middle East Times (Egypt), Insight on the News, and The Washington Times.
American Life TV cable television network
Belvedere Estate
Unification Theological Seminary
New Yorker Hotel
Rolland Denny mansion
In Uruguay owns the country's largest hotel, a leading bank, the second-largest newspaper and two of the largest printing plants.
National Hospitality Corporation
U.S. Property Development Corporation
Yongpyong Resort
The supposed church also controls the following fronts in politics:
Freedom Leadership Foundation
Peace United Family Party
International Association of Parliamentarians for Peace (IAPP)
The Summit Council for World Peace
Coalition for a Free World
Washington Institute for Values in Public Policy
CAUSA International
International Coalition for Religious Freedom
International Federation for Victory over Communism (IFVOC)
Korean Culture and Freedom Foundation
National Committee Against Religious Bigotry and Racism
National Prayer and Fast Committee
The Moonies also are strong allies and financial supporters of the following groups and organizations:
American Conference on Religious Movements together with Scientology
American Freedom Coalition (AFC)
Christian Heritage Foundation
Empowerment Network, a political PAC of US Senator Joe Lieberman
Foundation for Religious Freedom (Also known as the New Cult Awareness Network) together with Scientology.
George Bush Presidential Library with a $1 million donation.
Geneva Interfaith and Intercultural Alliance
Liberty University, contributing $3.5 million
Married Priests Now!
Million Family March with The Nation of Islam
National Conservative Political Action Committee (NCPAC) with a $500,000 donation.
University of Bridgeport of Bridgeport, Connecticut given $50 million in exchange for a majority of board members to come from Moonie groups.
World Association of Non-Governmental Organizations (WANGO)
Why was the Unification Church created?
Al Carroll
PhD in History, Arizona State University Jun 27
Most of the evidences points toward the supposed church being a useful front for the KCIA (South Korean version of the CIA) and South Korean and Japanese organized crime. It generates huge amounts of income by its control of its followers donating all their income and time, plus the following businesses:
One Up Enterprises Inc.
International Association for Peace and Economic Development (IAED)
Pyeonghwa Motors, an automobile manufacturer
Cheongshim Hospital
Ilhwa Company, producer of ginseng products
Isshin Hospital
Tongil Group pharmaceuticals, tourism, and publishing
Tongil Heavy Industries, machine parts and hardware for the South Korean military
Little Angels Children's Folk Ballet of Korea
Master Marine, shipbuilding and fishing company in Alabama
International Seafood of Kodiak, Alaska
Master Marine owning a factory in Las Vegas
True World Foods, sushi, restaurants, and markets
One Mind Farms
News World Communications includes newspapers New York City Tribune, Noticias del Mundo, United Press International, The World and I, Tiempos del Mundo, The Segye Ilbo (South Korea), The Sekai Nippo (Japan), the Zambezi Times (South Africa), The Middle East Times (Egypt), Insight on the News, and The Washington Times.
American Life TV cable television network
Belvedere Estate
Unification Theological Seminary
New Yorker Hotel
Rolland Denny mansion
In Uruguay owns the country's largest hotel, a leading bank, the second-largest newspaper and two of the largest printing plants.
National Hospitality Corporation
U.S. Property Development Corporation
Yongpyong Resort
The supposed church also controls the following fronts in politics:
Freedom Leadership Foundation
Peace United Family Party
International Association of Parliamentarians for Peace (IAPP)
The Summit Council for World Peace
Coalition for a Free World
Washington Institute for Values in Public Policy
CAUSA International
International Coalition for Religious Freedom
International Federation for Victory over Communism (IFVOC)
Korean Culture and Freedom Foundation
National Committee Against Religious Bigotry and Racism
National Prayer and Fast Committee
The Moonies also are strong allies and financial supporters of the following groups and organizations:
American Conference on Religious Movements together with Scientology
American Freedom Coalition (AFC)
Christian Heritage Foundation
Empowerment Network, a political PAC of US Senator Joe Lieberman
Foundation for Religious Freedom (Also known as the New Cult Awareness Network) together with Scientology.
George Bush Presidential Library with a $1 million donation.
Geneva Interfaith and Intercultural Alliance
Liberty University, contributing $3.5 million
Married Priests Now!
Million Family March with The Nation of Islam
National Conservative Political Action Committee (NCPAC) with a $500,000 donation.
University of Bridgeport of Bridgeport, Connecticut given $50 million in exchange for a majority of board members to come from Moonie groups.
World Association of Non-Governmental Organizations (WANGO)
#28
Non-Frauds / Re: Quora Answers
Last post by educatedindian - July 20, 2026, 02:51:57 PMhttps://www.quora.com/Have-you-ever-been-indoctrinated-into-a-cult-How-did-you-escape-Are-all-of-the-worlds-various-organized-religions-nothing-more-than-cults/answer/Al-Carroll-17
Al Carroll
Co founder and researcher for New Age Frauds Plastic Shamans Jun 25
There are huge differences between cults and all the worlds best known religions, and virtually all the lesser known religions. Those who claim there are no differences either do not know much about the topic and may be lazy in their thinking, or more likely they are bigoted anti theists. An anti theist is quite different from an atheist. Atheists tend to be thoughtful highly ethical people who could not find a religion that lived up to their high standards. Anti theists are hateful, vicious, and take pride in being openly bigoted against every faith.
Cults choose to isolate themselves. They do not mix with outsiders and are very paranoid. Their leader is authoritarian and not to be questioned, with no input from the community of the faithful as most religions practice. Leaders have private enforcers, often a literal army and spy network. Some practice psychologically breaking down followers, including by use and abuse of drugs.
Abuse is epidemic in cults. We all know about the abuse of children and others in the Catholic and other churches. That is horrifying, with as many as 5% of priests guilty of assaults. In cults that percentage may be literally 10 to 20 times higher:
Dwight York of the Nuwaubians abused hundreds of children as young as age 5, fathering 84 children by his victims. Harley Reagan of the so called Deer Tribe ordered his cult members to anally masturbate with objects in their anuses, in groups, and charged them $2000 for this fake ceremony, falsely claiming it was Cherokee sex magic. The so called Rainbow Tribe is notorious for sexual assaults and child abuse, often drugging its victims.
Financial abuse is far worse in cults too. Where churches may ask you to tithe 10%, cults often force members to give them literally everything they own. And then force them to work long hours for the cult. A few cults have actual sex workers working for them.
Finally, many cults have deception on a massive scale. Some just have bizarre claims, like Harley Reagan claiming to simultaneously been in Special Forces, the CIA, a POW in Vietnam, and in the Olympics all at the same time. The Moonies have long been a front for the KCIA, the South Korean version of the CIA, and for both South Korean and Japanese organized crime. Whatever the alleged spiritual value of different beliefs in cults, by their behavior they are criminal and dangerous to us all.
Al Carroll
Co founder and researcher for New Age Frauds Plastic Shamans Jun 25
There are huge differences between cults and all the worlds best known religions, and virtually all the lesser known religions. Those who claim there are no differences either do not know much about the topic and may be lazy in their thinking, or more likely they are bigoted anti theists. An anti theist is quite different from an atheist. Atheists tend to be thoughtful highly ethical people who could not find a religion that lived up to their high standards. Anti theists are hateful, vicious, and take pride in being openly bigoted against every faith.
Cults choose to isolate themselves. They do not mix with outsiders and are very paranoid. Their leader is authoritarian and not to be questioned, with no input from the community of the faithful as most religions practice. Leaders have private enforcers, often a literal army and spy network. Some practice psychologically breaking down followers, including by use and abuse of drugs.
Abuse is epidemic in cults. We all know about the abuse of children and others in the Catholic and other churches. That is horrifying, with as many as 5% of priests guilty of assaults. In cults that percentage may be literally 10 to 20 times higher:
Dwight York of the Nuwaubians abused hundreds of children as young as age 5, fathering 84 children by his victims. Harley Reagan of the so called Deer Tribe ordered his cult members to anally masturbate with objects in their anuses, in groups, and charged them $2000 for this fake ceremony, falsely claiming it was Cherokee sex magic. The so called Rainbow Tribe is notorious for sexual assaults and child abuse, often drugging its victims.
Financial abuse is far worse in cults too. Where churches may ask you to tithe 10%, cults often force members to give them literally everything they own. And then force them to work long hours for the cult. A few cults have actual sex workers working for them.
Finally, many cults have deception on a massive scale. Some just have bizarre claims, like Harley Reagan claiming to simultaneously been in Special Forces, the CIA, a POW in Vietnam, and in the Olympics all at the same time. The Moonies have long been a front for the KCIA, the South Korean version of the CIA, and for both South Korean and Japanese organized crime. Whatever the alleged spiritual value of different beliefs in cults, by their behavior they are criminal and dangerous to us all.
#29
Non-Frauds / Quora Answers
Last post by educatedindian - July 20, 2026, 02:49:39 PMThe reliability of Quora answers are all over the place. A lot of wishful thinking, ideologically motivated rants, sometimes conspiracy claims. But there are good answers from knowledgeable people. Obviously the first thing is to always look at the credentials of the person answering. This thread will be for the better answers, solely for the topics we cover, esp famous frauds. I am going to start with some questions I have answered, limited solely to our topic here.
-------
https://www.quora.com/Is-the-Unification-Church-founded-in-South-Korea-a-cult/answer/Al-Carroll-17
Is the Unification Church, founded in South Korea, a cult?
Al Carroll
Co founder and researcher for New Age Frauds Plastic Shamans Jun 24
What sets cults apart is they isolate their members from the rest of society in order to control them better. This is usually coupled with abuse, spiritual, psychological, financial, and often sexual. Cults also are not remotely democratic, with an authoritarian leader who usually has enforcers, sometimes a literal army.
Yes, the Moonies are a cult. They are isolated from everyone else. It controls its members right down to telling them who to marry, often people who have never met before. Some of its members have been literally held hostage. So called Reverend Moon, self appointed, was claimed to be literally Jesus, with absolute authority and never to be questioned. When he was convicted of tax fraud in the 1980s and served a brief term in a cushy white collar prison, what did the cult do? Appeal to right wing politicians and American fundamentalists, claim persecution, and of course, raise a lot of funds off this claim.
The Moonies also are a useful front for both the KCIA, the South Korean version of the CIA, and South Korean organized crime. In Japan fully half the members of the Liberal Democratic Party are tied to the Moonies. It was found guilty of defrauding tens of thousands of its Japanese members and ordered dissolved. Conflict with the Moonies led to the assassination of Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo Abe.
In the US the cult has huge influence, including through fronts such as The Washington Times. It donated millions to the election campaigns of Donald Trump. The cult is rapidly Islamophobic and pro support of the Israeli right wing, including Benjamin Netanyahu. The cult has literally dozens of front groups for their causes, where they conceal their true intentions, beliefs, and even their presence. People can, of course, choose to believe what they wish. Whatever the value of their belief system, as an organization it is extremely corrupt and dangerous to us all, but of course most of all to its own members.
-------
https://www.quora.com/Is-the-Unification-Church-founded-in-South-Korea-a-cult/answer/Al-Carroll-17
Is the Unification Church, founded in South Korea, a cult?
Al Carroll
Co founder and researcher for New Age Frauds Plastic Shamans Jun 24
What sets cults apart is they isolate their members from the rest of society in order to control them better. This is usually coupled with abuse, spiritual, psychological, financial, and often sexual. Cults also are not remotely democratic, with an authoritarian leader who usually has enforcers, sometimes a literal army.
Yes, the Moonies are a cult. They are isolated from everyone else. It controls its members right down to telling them who to marry, often people who have never met before. Some of its members have been literally held hostage. So called Reverend Moon, self appointed, was claimed to be literally Jesus, with absolute authority and never to be questioned. When he was convicted of tax fraud in the 1980s and served a brief term in a cushy white collar prison, what did the cult do? Appeal to right wing politicians and American fundamentalists, claim persecution, and of course, raise a lot of funds off this claim.
The Moonies also are a useful front for both the KCIA, the South Korean version of the CIA, and South Korean organized crime. In Japan fully half the members of the Liberal Democratic Party are tied to the Moonies. It was found guilty of defrauding tens of thousands of its Japanese members and ordered dissolved. Conflict with the Moonies led to the assassination of Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo Abe.
In the US the cult has huge influence, including through fronts such as The Washington Times. It donated millions to the election campaigns of Donald Trump. The cult is rapidly Islamophobic and pro support of the Israeli right wing, including Benjamin Netanyahu. The cult has literally dozens of front groups for their causes, where they conceal their true intentions, beliefs, and even their presence. People can, of course, choose to believe what they wish. Whatever the value of their belief system, as an organization it is extremely corrupt and dangerous to us all, but of course most of all to its own members.
#30
Frauds / Marvin Rainwater and John Loud...
Last post by educatedindian - July 20, 2026, 02:35:19 PMVery old early example. Sam Morningstar posts at Quora for many years, very knowledgeable good researcher. The photos and docs are at the original link. Bolding is mine.
------------
https://www.quora.com/How-do-Native-Americans-feel-about-the-song-Indian-Reservation/answer/Morningstar-195
How do Native Americans feel about the song "Indian Reservation?"
Morningstar
Native American 7y
I think it's a wack song, musically and lyrically speaking.
But, it's also has a very interesting back story. It's long, but worth the read.
See, I talk about the phenomenon of White Americans frequently claiming to be "part-Cherokee." And this is yet another example of this. Seriously, folks, this shit cannot be exaggerated! It's just insane!
The song was written by John D. Loudermilk. And he claims to be "part-Cherokee." As a side note, the dude looks a lot like Conan O'Brien.
But, before I delve into the Loudermilk nonsense, I have to point out that the song was first recorded and popularized by a fellow named Marvin Rainwater in 1958, under the title "The Pale Faced Indian." Rainwater also claimed to be ¼ Cherokee himself. In fact, it was sort of his thing, and he talked about it quite a lot during his career.
He was mostly a country western, or proto-rockabilly, singer and had some decent success in the 1950s, including a number one hit in the UK, "Whole Lotta Woman."
He often performed in a beaded headband and fringe jackets. In interviews, Rainwater reiterated his part-Cherokee ancestry, mostly claiming to be ¼ degree. Some sources state that this was through his mother's line, and that it was her name that was Rainwater and he adopted this as a stage name. Here is a sample of his claims. *Notice too, the statement about "sensitive Indians" and their supposed interaction with him.
September 1, 1957 interview (The Milwaukee Journal):
In reality, his father was the Rainwater. And Marvin Rainwater was not Cherokee at all. Here is his background:
None of Marvin's grandparents were Cherokee. These are all standard Southern Whites lineages and you can research most lines going back quite far. Just a brief mention of a few lineages: Ema J (Lorren) Miller was the daughter of a Confederate soldier William Lorren, and granddaughter of George Lorren who received homestead land patents in Alabama. These earlier ancestors were White settlers that moved into lands that had been cleared of Indians during the early American expansion era. The Rainwater line goes back to 1600s Virginia (Anglo) settlers. I know the surname Rainwater sounds all Native American-y, but it's not.
Ironically, some of Marvin's distant Rainwater relatives actually got Cherokee land in Land Lotteries (1832 – Sixth Cherokee Land Lottery in what is now Cobb County, GA). Yes, I'm totally serious.
As I said before, you can't make this stuff up people! This family actually represented the White settlers that directly settled on lands that had been taken by force from the Cherokee. And then fast forward in time and this White guy who descends from the very same group that displaced Cherokees is claiming to be "a quarter Cherokee" as part of his identity.
In fact, there is some indication that Marvin Rainwater came up with the "quarter Cherokee" claim simply as a marketing ploy – to "break out" or gain attention. A public radio interview/story in the 90s states the following:
Marvin Rainwater Sings Again
"I Gotta Go Get My Baby" - recorded here for MGM - was an early Rainwater tune his brother Ray parlayed into a TV appearance with Arthur Godfrey in 1953. By now, Marvin had come up with an Indian persona. He isn't Indian, that he knows of, but it worked with his last name. He wore a headband and fringed leather jacket. He wrote lyrics about his Cherokee brothers. He had the suit, the songs, and the ambition - but needed a big break. And as everyone knew in the early fifties, Arthur Godfrey was in the big-break business.
Alright, well, that's just the tip of the iceberg for this story, and this American "Cherokee blood" phenomenon. Next, let's look at the songwriter's story.
Not only does John D. Loudermilk claim Cherokee blood, he has spun an absolutely fabulous story about this song, in particular. He's done interviews over the years and the story lines are generally the same, although there is some variation and degrees of embellishment.
Here's an interview he did from February 2013:
For those that can't get through this entire clip, I'll provide the excerpt transcript of the the crazy "Cherokee" story here:
JL: "Indian Reservation."
Radio DJ: Oh yeah.
JL: I was coming from Nashville back to Durham to visit my mother and father. And I got on top of a hill...at the mountain there at Cherokee. And I got snowed in. And I had to stop my little Volkswagen bug...bus and go to sleep. And during the night a tap came on the window. Now, you'd never do that now. You wouldn't park and expect not to get your ass killed, or whatever.
But, a little tap came on it [the window] and it's a guy with a feather in his hair [or, "hat"]. And he said, 'Are you Mr. Loudermilk?" And I said, 'Yes, something's happened and their calling me.' He said, 'Follow me.' So, I got out of the car and followed him through the snow down off the side of the road to a cave down there underneath the road.
Radio DJ: Did you know that guy?
JL: No, but he knew me see...he said, 'You from Nashville?' [unintelligible] idiot kid would do that. Which I did. And so there was a fire going and three or four guys sitting around the fire. And so, he introduced himself as Bloody Beartooth. And he was an Indian chieftain. And he wanted to ask me to write a song about their plight – the Cherokee Indian's plight
Radio DJ: Trail of Tears and all that?
JL: Yes, he knew I was a song writer. And he was very persuasive in his...not a demand, but a spirited request. And so, I came back and wrote the song. Well, it became a hit all over the world. And about 15 years after that we got a letter – Susan and I got a letter...this was about 5 years ago I think. And it said you have been given the first Medal of Honor from the Cherokee, uh, tribe in Tahlequah, Oklahoma. There are two. There's one in North Carolina, Cherokee North Carolina, then there's Tahlequah in Oklahoma.
Radio DJ: The other end of the Trail of Tears.
JL: The other end of the Trail of Tears. And so, I went there and we sat through this and it was wonderful. And, uh, the next morning, he said I'd like to show you something. So, he took us to the archives. And he opened up an old ledger book that was kept by a Senator Daws [sic] – D A W S – during the Trail of Tears period that had a list of all of the Cherokee Indians that had been marched at bayonet point from Cherokee...which were the gold mines really, nobody's gotten into that yet. But, this is...we used to have all the gold over here in this section, before they opened up gold in California.
Radio DJ: That's why they sent the Cherokee...
JL: Well, we don't know. But, and so...he said I want you to look down on the list. There were 1,600 people. And I got to L's and here was Loudermilk. And he said, these were your great-great grandparents. And uh, it was a Homer and Matilda Loudermilk. And they were 91 years old and walked 1600 miles to Oklahoma and then farmed for five years. And he said...I said, 'Why are you doing this to me?' He said, 'Because this award is the only award in the world that we give to people because of their blood.'
Radio DJ: Not the song so much, your blood.
JL: That's right.
Radio DJ: The blood.
JL: But, I didn't know it when I wrote the song. I wrote from the blood, and didn't know why.
Radio DJ: From the heart.
JL: Yeah.
Okay, let's summarize what he's saying. He's laying claim to Cherokee ancestry, first of all. And secondly, he's claiming he was approached by this community to tell the Cherokee story, or "plight." A chief "Bloody Bearpaw" approached him on that snowy night and took him to a secret cave even! Further, he claims ancestors were listed on tribal rolls, and were subjected to the Trail of Tears.
That's very specific!
Now, as per usual, let me highlight the reality of his ancestry, and illustrate yet again...this is a White person falsely claiming Cherokee blood and usurping an identity for some very strange personal reasons.
I seriously don't understand why White Americans do this so much, but it's just like how the sun rises in the east and sets in the west. It's a natural cycle, or to be expected.
So, here's this dude's ancestry along the Loudermilk lines (which he is claiming as Cherokee, although he misidentifies his GG grandparents in the interview):
Alright, and to highlight why his claims - and larger phenomenon - are so ironic, let me point out the actual European-American ancestry in the lineage usually traces back to settlers that took Native lands, or even were Indian fighters.
This is the case here!
John Loudermilk's paternal lines is traced as follows:
His father was John Dee Loudermilk, Sr., born in 1883 and died in 1960.
John Dee Loudermilk, Sr (1883-1960) - Find A...
We can then click on the link to his father, Colonel Loudermilk, born in 1857. An obituary is extant that clearly makes these connections from father to son – he is listed as "Dee" from Durham.
From this point, the Find-a-grave links go dead. So, we need to turn to other records. We know Colonel was born in Cherokee County, NC. If he was age 75 at death in 1933, that gives us a birth year of about 1858. A search of census records returns a good hit. Here is the family cluster in the 1860 Census, in Cherokee County, NC, with a "Colonel M. Loudermilk" listed, age about 1 at time of enumeration.
Okay, so we find a G. W. Loudermilk married to a Narcissa Loudermilk, the parents of little "Colonel." Narcissa was listed as having been born in Warren County, Georgia. Let's take a look see at those records now. Here ya go...a marriage record. From Warren County, no less. Here is Narcissa Torrence getting married to G. W. Lowdermilk in 1837:
Let's go to the 1850 Census and see if we can find this family cluster. Here they are, same county (Cherokee County, NC):
Alright, now let's explore the sad facts...and it really is rather uniform when you delve into these Cherokee blood lore claims and really research them thoroughly. Take a look at George W. and Narcissa's household. First of all it confirms the Torrence maiden name for Narcissa. Her mother Matilda is living in with them at this time. But, look at the next entry down – Garner N. Loudermilk. That is GW's brother. They were the sons of GW Loudermilk Sr. and an unknown first wife.
Garner was literally a militia captain that was directly involved in the 1838 brutal removals and forced death marches to Indian Territory.
The source graphic isn't quite clear, but here are more detailed facts:
Garner Loudermilk was commissioned as a Captain under Captain Samuel Patterson's Company of Mounted Volunteers - 22 May 1838-14 Jul 1838. This was the most brutal point in the Trail of Tears and this man was a captain.
I know this isn't a direct ancestor in the line we are looking at, but this was John D. Loudermilk's great-grandfather's brother. It's not that far removed. And the dates of service are very important. May 1838 – July 1838 represented the very height of the worst treatment of Cherokees at the hands of the militia/military. These were at the gun-point removals, the stockade staging points, capturing "escaping" Cherokees in the mountains, and then the early forced marches without sufficient provisions (and cruel treatment). It was the worst of the worst. So, indeed there were Loudermilks on the Trail of Tears, but they were holding bayonets and prodding Cherokees along.
Then we can find the Loudermilk brothers living side by side each other in Cherokee County, NC. Ironic name don't you think? These were lands that were taken away from the Cherokee and opened up to White settlers such as this Loudermillk family.
Alright, but let's go one step further and look at another person in this direct lineage.
GW Loudermilk Sr. was in the war of 1812. And not only that, he was part of the Eastern Tennesseee Militia which fought in the Creek War (part of the War of 1812), under Capt Wear's command. And here's a fun fact. Wear was one of the most brutal commanders in that war and was actually relieved of command (and his unit disbanded) for a massacre that made even Jackson upset...which is a very tall order.
Samuel Wear - Wikipedia
The eastern TN militia was almost exclusively a body of Indian Fighters. There is no other way to put this.
So, let's pull the lens back here and take a look at what this song really represents on a deeper level. It's basically a fabrication of a White dude that is using Cherokees as a sort of prop or rhetorical device. Then, he is laying claim or usurping this identity for himself. And he is telling the story of "plight" of the people. In contradistinction to that, his actual ancestry represents the very people that fought Natives Americans, removed them, and occupied their stolen lands.
Further, not only is this restricted to the original songwriter, but the musician that first recorded and popularized it, did the same exact thing. He represents the same bogus "Cherokee blood" claim and fabricated identity.
Seriously, if Cherokees do indeed have a plight, it might be the continuous and perpetual frustration of dealing with White people and their blood lore myths and constructed identities!
Holy shit, you can't even make this shit up! It's just so astounding!
------------
https://www.quora.com/How-do-Native-Americans-feel-about-the-song-Indian-Reservation/answer/Morningstar-195
How do Native Americans feel about the song "Indian Reservation?"
Morningstar
Native American 7y
I think it's a wack song, musically and lyrically speaking.
But, it's also has a very interesting back story. It's long, but worth the read.
See, I talk about the phenomenon of White Americans frequently claiming to be "part-Cherokee." And this is yet another example of this. Seriously, folks, this shit cannot be exaggerated! It's just insane!
The song was written by John D. Loudermilk. And he claims to be "part-Cherokee." As a side note, the dude looks a lot like Conan O'Brien.
But, before I delve into the Loudermilk nonsense, I have to point out that the song was first recorded and popularized by a fellow named Marvin Rainwater in 1958, under the title "The Pale Faced Indian." Rainwater also claimed to be ¼ Cherokee himself. In fact, it was sort of his thing, and he talked about it quite a lot during his career.
He was mostly a country western, or proto-rockabilly, singer and had some decent success in the 1950s, including a number one hit in the UK, "Whole Lotta Woman."
He often performed in a beaded headband and fringe jackets. In interviews, Rainwater reiterated his part-Cherokee ancestry, mostly claiming to be ¼ degree. Some sources state that this was through his mother's line, and that it was her name that was Rainwater and he adopted this as a stage name. Here is a sample of his claims. *Notice too, the statement about "sensitive Indians" and their supposed interaction with him.
September 1, 1957 interview (The Milwaukee Journal):
In reality, his father was the Rainwater. And Marvin Rainwater was not Cherokee at all. Here is his background:
None of Marvin's grandparents were Cherokee. These are all standard Southern Whites lineages and you can research most lines going back quite far. Just a brief mention of a few lineages: Ema J (Lorren) Miller was the daughter of a Confederate soldier William Lorren, and granddaughter of George Lorren who received homestead land patents in Alabama. These earlier ancestors were White settlers that moved into lands that had been cleared of Indians during the early American expansion era. The Rainwater line goes back to 1600s Virginia (Anglo) settlers. I know the surname Rainwater sounds all Native American-y, but it's not.
Ironically, some of Marvin's distant Rainwater relatives actually got Cherokee land in Land Lotteries (1832 – Sixth Cherokee Land Lottery in what is now Cobb County, GA). Yes, I'm totally serious.
As I said before, you can't make this stuff up people! This family actually represented the White settlers that directly settled on lands that had been taken by force from the Cherokee. And then fast forward in time and this White guy who descends from the very same group that displaced Cherokees is claiming to be "a quarter Cherokee" as part of his identity.
In fact, there is some indication that Marvin Rainwater came up with the "quarter Cherokee" claim simply as a marketing ploy – to "break out" or gain attention. A public radio interview/story in the 90s states the following:
Marvin Rainwater Sings Again
"I Gotta Go Get My Baby" - recorded here for MGM - was an early Rainwater tune his brother Ray parlayed into a TV appearance with Arthur Godfrey in 1953. By now, Marvin had come up with an Indian persona. He isn't Indian, that he knows of, but it worked with his last name. He wore a headband and fringed leather jacket. He wrote lyrics about his Cherokee brothers. He had the suit, the songs, and the ambition - but needed a big break. And as everyone knew in the early fifties, Arthur Godfrey was in the big-break business.
Alright, well, that's just the tip of the iceberg for this story, and this American "Cherokee blood" phenomenon. Next, let's look at the songwriter's story.
Not only does John D. Loudermilk claim Cherokee blood, he has spun an absolutely fabulous story about this song, in particular. He's done interviews over the years and the story lines are generally the same, although there is some variation and degrees of embellishment.
Here's an interview he did from February 2013:
For those that can't get through this entire clip, I'll provide the excerpt transcript of the the crazy "Cherokee" story here:
JL: "Indian Reservation."
Radio DJ: Oh yeah.
JL: I was coming from Nashville back to Durham to visit my mother and father. And I got on top of a hill...at the mountain there at Cherokee. And I got snowed in. And I had to stop my little Volkswagen bug...bus and go to sleep. And during the night a tap came on the window. Now, you'd never do that now. You wouldn't park and expect not to get your ass killed, or whatever.
But, a little tap came on it [the window] and it's a guy with a feather in his hair [or, "hat"]. And he said, 'Are you Mr. Loudermilk?" And I said, 'Yes, something's happened and their calling me.' He said, 'Follow me.' So, I got out of the car and followed him through the snow down off the side of the road to a cave down there underneath the road.
Radio DJ: Did you know that guy?
JL: No, but he knew me see...he said, 'You from Nashville?' [unintelligible] idiot kid would do that. Which I did. And so there was a fire going and three or four guys sitting around the fire. And so, he introduced himself as Bloody Beartooth. And he was an Indian chieftain. And he wanted to ask me to write a song about their plight – the Cherokee Indian's plight
Radio DJ: Trail of Tears and all that?
JL: Yes, he knew I was a song writer. And he was very persuasive in his...not a demand, but a spirited request. And so, I came back and wrote the song. Well, it became a hit all over the world. And about 15 years after that we got a letter – Susan and I got a letter...this was about 5 years ago I think. And it said you have been given the first Medal of Honor from the Cherokee, uh, tribe in Tahlequah, Oklahoma. There are two. There's one in North Carolina, Cherokee North Carolina, then there's Tahlequah in Oklahoma.
Radio DJ: The other end of the Trail of Tears.
JL: The other end of the Trail of Tears. And so, I went there and we sat through this and it was wonderful. And, uh, the next morning, he said I'd like to show you something. So, he took us to the archives. And he opened up an old ledger book that was kept by a Senator Daws [sic] – D A W S – during the Trail of Tears period that had a list of all of the Cherokee Indians that had been marched at bayonet point from Cherokee...which were the gold mines really, nobody's gotten into that yet. But, this is...we used to have all the gold over here in this section, before they opened up gold in California.
Radio DJ: That's why they sent the Cherokee...
JL: Well, we don't know. But, and so...he said I want you to look down on the list. There were 1,600 people. And I got to L's and here was Loudermilk. And he said, these were your great-great grandparents. And uh, it was a Homer and Matilda Loudermilk. And they were 91 years old and walked 1600 miles to Oklahoma and then farmed for five years. And he said...I said, 'Why are you doing this to me?' He said, 'Because this award is the only award in the world that we give to people because of their blood.'
Radio DJ: Not the song so much, your blood.
JL: That's right.
Radio DJ: The blood.
JL: But, I didn't know it when I wrote the song. I wrote from the blood, and didn't know why.
Radio DJ: From the heart.
JL: Yeah.
Okay, let's summarize what he's saying. He's laying claim to Cherokee ancestry, first of all. And secondly, he's claiming he was approached by this community to tell the Cherokee story, or "plight." A chief "Bloody Bearpaw" approached him on that snowy night and took him to a secret cave even! Further, he claims ancestors were listed on tribal rolls, and were subjected to the Trail of Tears.
That's very specific!
Now, as per usual, let me highlight the reality of his ancestry, and illustrate yet again...this is a White person falsely claiming Cherokee blood and usurping an identity for some very strange personal reasons.
I seriously don't understand why White Americans do this so much, but it's just like how the sun rises in the east and sets in the west. It's a natural cycle, or to be expected.
So, here's this dude's ancestry along the Loudermilk lines (which he is claiming as Cherokee, although he misidentifies his GG grandparents in the interview):
Alright, and to highlight why his claims - and larger phenomenon - are so ironic, let me point out the actual European-American ancestry in the lineage usually traces back to settlers that took Native lands, or even were Indian fighters.
This is the case here!
John Loudermilk's paternal lines is traced as follows:
His father was John Dee Loudermilk, Sr., born in 1883 and died in 1960.
John Dee Loudermilk, Sr (1883-1960) - Find A...
We can then click on the link to his father, Colonel Loudermilk, born in 1857. An obituary is extant that clearly makes these connections from father to son – he is listed as "Dee" from Durham.
From this point, the Find-a-grave links go dead. So, we need to turn to other records. We know Colonel was born in Cherokee County, NC. If he was age 75 at death in 1933, that gives us a birth year of about 1858. A search of census records returns a good hit. Here is the family cluster in the 1860 Census, in Cherokee County, NC, with a "Colonel M. Loudermilk" listed, age about 1 at time of enumeration.
Okay, so we find a G. W. Loudermilk married to a Narcissa Loudermilk, the parents of little "Colonel." Narcissa was listed as having been born in Warren County, Georgia. Let's take a look see at those records now. Here ya go...a marriage record. From Warren County, no less. Here is Narcissa Torrence getting married to G. W. Lowdermilk in 1837:
Let's go to the 1850 Census and see if we can find this family cluster. Here they are, same county (Cherokee County, NC):
Alright, now let's explore the sad facts...and it really is rather uniform when you delve into these Cherokee blood lore claims and really research them thoroughly. Take a look at George W. and Narcissa's household. First of all it confirms the Torrence maiden name for Narcissa. Her mother Matilda is living in with them at this time. But, look at the next entry down – Garner N. Loudermilk. That is GW's brother. They were the sons of GW Loudermilk Sr. and an unknown first wife.
Garner was literally a militia captain that was directly involved in the 1838 brutal removals and forced death marches to Indian Territory.
The source graphic isn't quite clear, but here are more detailed facts:
Garner Loudermilk was commissioned as a Captain under Captain Samuel Patterson's Company of Mounted Volunteers - 22 May 1838-14 Jul 1838. This was the most brutal point in the Trail of Tears and this man was a captain.
I know this isn't a direct ancestor in the line we are looking at, but this was John D. Loudermilk's great-grandfather's brother. It's not that far removed. And the dates of service are very important. May 1838 – July 1838 represented the very height of the worst treatment of Cherokees at the hands of the militia/military. These were at the gun-point removals, the stockade staging points, capturing "escaping" Cherokees in the mountains, and then the early forced marches without sufficient provisions (and cruel treatment). It was the worst of the worst. So, indeed there were Loudermilks on the Trail of Tears, but they were holding bayonets and prodding Cherokees along.
Then we can find the Loudermilk brothers living side by side each other in Cherokee County, NC. Ironic name don't you think? These were lands that were taken away from the Cherokee and opened up to White settlers such as this Loudermillk family.
Alright, but let's go one step further and look at another person in this direct lineage.
GW Loudermilk Sr. was in the war of 1812. And not only that, he was part of the Eastern Tennesseee Militia which fought in the Creek War (part of the War of 1812), under Capt Wear's command. And here's a fun fact. Wear was one of the most brutal commanders in that war and was actually relieved of command (and his unit disbanded) for a massacre that made even Jackson upset...which is a very tall order.
Samuel Wear - Wikipedia
The eastern TN militia was almost exclusively a body of Indian Fighters. There is no other way to put this.
So, let's pull the lens back here and take a look at what this song really represents on a deeper level. It's basically a fabrication of a White dude that is using Cherokees as a sort of prop or rhetorical device. Then, he is laying claim or usurping this identity for himself. And he is telling the story of "plight" of the people. In contradistinction to that, his actual ancestry represents the very people that fought Natives Americans, removed them, and occupied their stolen lands.
Further, not only is this restricted to the original songwriter, but the musician that first recorded and popularized it, did the same exact thing. He represents the same bogus "Cherokee blood" claim and fabricated identity.
Seriously, if Cherokees do indeed have a plight, it might be the continuous and perpetual frustration of dealing with White people and their blood lore myths and constructed identities!
Holy shit, you can't even make this shit up! It's just so astounding!