NAFPS Forum
General => Frauds => Topic started by: Freija on April 08, 2006, 09:58:27 pm
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Does anyone have any info on these guys?
Selling Spirit Dances in Europe sounds a bit....hrm...strange...
http://touchingtheheart.free.fr
Annika
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Strange is not an adequate word for it. The whole idea of the Ghost Dance is that you dance, sing, and pray for whites to go away, for ten feet of earth to cover all the places where whites are. Pretty amazing, you get Europeans to pray for their own end.
He's come up once before in an older thread.
http://www.newagefraud.org/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1123862150/0#0
Works with David Carson, alleged Choctaw who created Jamie Samms medicine cards before they had a falling out.
Most of the sites out there on him are in Italian. Seems he passes off Buddhist ideas as NDN, also some phrases that suggests he's a Castaneda fan. If Ale reads this, please post any translations of what's on your site about him and his followers in Italy. I know there were lots of posts about in in the yahoo groups, but they haven't been reposted in here yet.
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Thanks for moving the post, Al ? :) And for the info.
"Strange is not an adequate word for it. The whole idea of the Ghost Dance is that you dance, sing, and pray for whites to go away, for ten feet of earth to cover all the places where whites are. Pretty amazing, you get Europeans to pray for their own end. "
No problem - just make up your own version:
http://westshield.org/spirit-dance.htm
:-/
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I also think that should they look into the origins of the Ghost Dance, they will get a shock.
It was infact brought about by Wovoka been taught Christianity. His original vision was of the second coming of Christ, warning of the evils of the white man.
The dance or new religion was called the Ghost Dance only by the whites.
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The Ghost Dance: Ethnohistory and Revitalization
Alice Beck Kehoe
ISBN: 0030028523
? ? ? ?
Tracing the practise of the ghost dance from the time that Wovoka (A Paiute medicine man) was given this ceremony to the masacre by the military at Wounded knee creek South Dakota in 1890 to the second incident at Wounded knee creek in 1973.
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Nightchase's claims about the Ghostdance:
"The Spirit Dance is a modern version of the old Ghost Dance of the late 1800’s with some changes in form, song, and prayers including the name.
It would be impossible to make it like the old Ghost dance simply for reasons of familiarity as we have accounts of it in books but no one alive today really knows or have been there to give us directives on the dance itself. The dance was snuffed out as quickly as it rose with some unsavory elements that many Indians whose grand parents may have been involved do not discuss much about the dance, (ex. Wounded Knee Massacre)."
Nonsense. There are still actual Ghostdances being done, though they are kept very hidden precisely because of people like him.
"Changes were needed the old Ghost Dance was tainted with a desperate mood and a different set of circumstances unlike our times but no less critical as will be explained further on.
The Ghost Dance has inspired many Native Americans, Wovoka, a Paiute Medicine Man and his father were the ones to bring it more to the Native American tribes during the late 1800’s and early 1900’s as well.
It’s believed that doing this in the right way will bring about powerful results like a new way of life or bring back the old ways again like the buffalo returns and the free life of the land. Purportedly, you can contact a deceased loved one or relative in the protective seal of the ceremony or create a sort of medium where the those who have passed over and the living can meet even crossing over to the other side and back. The Ghost shirts used in the ceremony were reportedly immune to the white mans bullets. During the time when many Native Americans lost their love ones in war with the U. S. this made the Ghost Dance most appealing and powerful ally but with a disastrous outcome.
The reasons for such a bad outcome among the plains Indians was the misinformation of the shirts being impervious to bullets and the speculation of the prayers recited in songs."
In other words, he's badmouthing Wovoka and his followers at the same time he rips off their beliefs for money.
"One in general was the prayer of, “the disappearance of the white man and his ways and bringing back the old way of life???. To understand why this prayer was used is to know the desperate times they were in, that the plains Indians had just come off of war with the U.S. lost many relatives and loved ones, put on reservations, not to mention losing their way of life.
Hopefully we have learned not to pray in such a manner for it is our understanding that such things are not in our power to do or pray for and left for a greater scheme beyond our comprehension to unfold.
This brings us to the present day in which all people not just the Native Americans whose existence and life is in jeopardy realize the need to come together make change and create a new way of life by praying and dancing it into existence is at our disposal provided we do it with true intentions. We are in critical times now with war looming over us, the threat of terrorism at our doorstep, natural disasters from hurricanes, earthquakes, and volcanoes. Even global warming adds to this while disease like the flu will hold our interest not to mention a threat from the sky in the form of a meteor is likely to hit the earth with reverberating force.
We need to look at what is going on here and are we up to the challenge or have we just become to apathetic to care?
The Ghost Dance vision has been brought into play again through the Spirit Dance for the time is now for all peoples to begin to dance, pray, and heal their hearts. Look through the eyes of a child for they are the meek. Time to recognize we are all children on this Great Grand Mother we call earth and understand our connection and relation to all things on her. It is believed and as crazy as it may sound to do this as some of the old ones (the ones that did the old Ghost Dance) believed could alter if not bring about a change. Perhaps not in the same dramatic fashion that the old ones believed it could but nothing comes that easy either another lesson still learning.
We invite you to share with us your thoughts and prayers in ceremony.
We welcome all no matter what faith you are or race this is not a religion just a way.
After we have done ceremony everyone goes back to being who they are it is their right whether they are Catholic, Buddhist, or Christian we respect all paths and hope for forgiveness and the letting go of all wrongs and be with your brother and sister in a great ceremony for the future of our kind."
This is turning it from an angry Apocalyptic faith into a feel good ceremony.
More from his site:
"West Shield, Inc. shall provide religious and educational programs to recover and promote ancient elements of Native American and >>>>CHINESE<<<<< theology, philosophy, martial and healing arts that have been passed over in favor of Christian and social non-indigenous stands; re-animating Native American shamanic teachings and practices, which enrich and empower the individual and, which further our sensitivity to and respect for the physical and spiritual gifts of our natural environment, giving quality of awareness of and connectedness with life that is nourished by ancient traditions that:
1) Encourage faith in the Great Spirit,
2) Inspire personal growth and enrichment,
3) Teach wholesome and respectful relationships with the environment including alternative energies; making accessible these teaching and practices to a wider public and to offer support to select groups and individuals whose ideals parallel those of this corporation"
Nice of him to be honest and say they're a corporation. Not a church, not a nonprofit, etc. And that they're all about "personal growth".
"Medicine Card Reading
This reading will be done with the Medicine Cards, which were written by David Carson and Jamie Sams....
Tong Ren Therapy
This is a healing system developed by Master Tom Tam that utilizes Chi Gong and Karl Jung’s teaching on the collective unconscious....The workshop is instructional and experiential and participants will be certified therapist of Master Tam’s healing system, which not only includes Tong Ren but also the Pi Gu Therapy, Tui Na massage, and acupuncture points using the Magnetic Hammer.
Pi Gu Therapy
Pi Gu is an ancient Chinese way of fasting, it literally translates from Chinese as “stop eating grain???.
"Children’s Fire begins with a Medicine Wheel. This wheel is actually comprised of workshop participants working various characterizations, such as “The Heyoka???, “The Shaman???, “The Politician and “The Warrior???.
"Mini Vision Quest starts with a Sweat Lodge. The Lodge will be two “rounds??? in length and the people will be brought into a place where they are relaxed and open to the experience. They will then go to a previously selected private place in nature and will spend four hours alone....After the four-hour “quest??? participants will again enter the lodge and will complete the other two “rounds."
"Kam Lau, President
West Shield, Inc.
1007 N. Nevada Street
Carson City, Nevada 89703
kamlau@pyramid.net"
Why would an alleged lakota Sundance leader live in Carson City?
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I didn't want to mention that the Ghost Dance is still alive, I know it is. As Al said it is hidden, but also it is not so hidden.
Fact is, ya won't get any people from outside taking part.
Its an ndn thing, that in true definition, will not be exploited.
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But if you don't get invited to the Ghost Dance, there's always the Apache Horse Dance...
http://www.spirithorsemedicine.com/workshops.htm
p.s. tell me that first photo ain't a mule
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Keguseno,
That first photo ain't a mule.......................
I think its a spirit horse, and it can change into what it wants
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Keguseno,
That first photo ain't a mule.......................
I think its a spirit horse, and it can change into what it wants
;D ;D ;D
I want one!!! I want one!!! ? :D
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Here is some info sent to me:
Daily Advertiser, The (Lafayette, LA)
May 25, 2002
Section: Lifestyle
Page: 01C
Quest for spirituality
Author: Judy StanfordThe Daily Advertiser
Article Text:
Judy Stanford
Staff Writer
For thousands of years before Europeans first set foot on the shores
of this country, a rich spiritual tradition was practiced by its
native peoples.
It was a tradition licensed professional counselor Francine Guillory
discovered almost by accident. When she was in Colorado, pursuing a
master's degree in wellness, she took a course taught by a Jungian
analyst that included making a vision quest in the fashion of the
Lakota Sioux.
"One of my teachers was Kam Lau Nightchase -- he is half Chinese and
half Lakota Sioux. When I have questions and need guidance, I call
him," she said.
"Another teacher was Mary Thunder. She's Cheyenne, but her teachers
were Lakota Sioux."
In learning about these spiritual traditions, Guillory was, in a
way, discovering her own roots. She is of American Indian ancestry
through her grandmother's line.
The vision she received told her she should begin leading vision
quests and sweat lodges, Guillory said.
In a vision quest, the individual goes alone into the woods or some
other isolated area with nothing but water and meditates and prays
for three days in the hope of finding enlightenment. "The quest is
about transformation -- transforming the whole person -- mind, body
and spirit. Their whole life begins to expand. They get a
direction."
Anne Deshotels Fontenot made a vision quest under Guillory's
guidance about four years ago.
"It was a wonderful place to go and experience yourself in solitude,
which brought about a lot of insight and opening the door for a new
journey of the self," Fontenot said.
Before making the vision quest, most participants prepare themselves
by attending a sweat lodge.
"A sweat lodge is a rite of purification on a physical, emotional
and spiritual level," Guillory said.
Although the idea of surviving the weekend alone in the woods sounds
dangerous, Guillory said in her experience, it has not proven so.
"And I've put over 400 people out," she added.
The vision quest is a time to find a spiritual connection, Guillory
said. "They're connecting with the self, with nature and with God,
however they see God."
People of any faith may make a vision quest, Guillory said.
"There is only one God," Guillory said. "As a leader, I might refer
to God as the Great Spirit, but they can pray to God the Father, Son
and Holy Spirit. Nothing is imposed on them.
"One of the misunderstandings is that Indians worship many gods.
It's not so. They are connected to the spirit that dwells in
everything -- in rocks, the birds. That oneness of God exists in
everything.
"That's one of the things people get on a vision quest on a deep
cellular level. The phrase used (in the Sioux language) is 'mitaquye
oyasin,' which means 'all my relations.' "
The vision quest can be beneficial for adults of any age, Guillory
said.
"My mother made a vision quest at 72. She had a fear of death. When
she came out of the vision quest, the fear was gone. She died
peacefully at 80."
The rituals teach a new way of thinking, Guillory said. "The Indian
message to us is that the white man thinks with his head the Indian
thinks with his heart. When we experience the vision quest, it's to
move us from our left brain to our right brain and into our hearts."
Course offered:
Francine Guillory will teach a four-part series titled "Introduction
to American Indian Spirituality" through UL Lafayette's Potpourri
beginning June 8.
Information: (337) 482-6386.
Copyright (c) The Daily Advertiser. All rights reserved. Reproduced
with the permission of Gannett Co., Inc. by NewsBank, inc.
Record Number: lfl1130814
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And some more on Night Chase:
http://www.siberianshamanism.com/inglese/1998report.html
I HAVE BUILT THE INIPI WITH KAM LAU NIGHTCHASE
While I was getting ready to the meeting with Kam Lau Nightchase and
his wife Mary I was very excited. Five months after the Sundance in
Nevada, I would have been able to hug them again. The occasion was
the meeting of December in Verona where representatives of
Buriatia, of Mongolia, from Republic of Tuva, of the North and the
Center America
have performed propitiatory and healing rituals.
I have prayed with Nadja Stephanova and with Tserin Zarin, I have
invoked the protection of the Spirits with the magic songs of the
shamans of Tuva. I have danced the Dance of the Deer with Brant
Secunda and I have helped Kam to build the Inipi.
About six years ago some friends asked me if I was interested to
meet Kam, the Lakota tradition and the Sweat Lodge. My ansver was
yes. Now I know that "yes" changed the course of my life. At
that time I didn't had any idea of the Inipi and now I was helping
Kam teaching to the people to build it, because now I conduct the
Inipi myself, I am Pipe Carrier and Dancer of the Sun too.
Kam Lau Nightchase is a recognized Teacher of the spiritual
tradition of the Lakota as well as a Sun Dancer Chief. He has been a
Sun Dancer for 17 years. He is a direct descendant of a long lineage
of renowned Lakota chiefs, warriors, and medicine men and women. Kam
has travelled widely to share the wisdom and medicine of his people,
from Russia to the South Pacific, and across the North American and
European continents.
His calling has been blessed by the elders of the Lakota people,
who recently gathered in the northeastern Nevada wilderness to
consacrate acreage so that Kam might conduct his own annual Sun
Dance ceremonies. A po7erful and devoted medicine teacher, Kam
brings to the retreat a presence of his people's traditions that is
pure and
uncompromising, healing and empowering.
During his one of a the many Hanbleceya (Search of the Vision),
Kam saw the four colors of the offers of tobacco become men of the
four races that danced together. These colors are: Black- West, Red-
North, Yellow- East, White- South. (For other traditions the order
of the colors could be different).In his vision the red offers
became native Americans, the white changed in European, the yellow
in Oriental and the black in Africans. His vision now is a reality.
To his Sundance, initiated in the 1997, the year of birth of the
White Buffalo, the four colors are dancing, the four races dancing
together.
The two events they were scheduled six generations before in a
prophecy. There is something of terrible and of marvelous, a big
honor but also a big burden, to be part of a similar prophecy.
The Inipi is a rite of purification that precedes all the spiritual
practices of the Lakota but it could have different other
characteres.
The note drift from the word Inipo= must purify you ,and it unwinds
said onfiltered= lodge. His structure is formed of 12 or 16 branches
of willow according to the cardinal directions to form of dome and
four horizontal branches that they represent the periods of the
Creation and all that the number four symbolize. His form represents
the whole universe, Mother Earth.
Represent all the elements, living beings of each kind, animal and
vegetable. In the beginning the lodge was covered of skins of
buffalo but now they used covers and blanquettes. Inside, in the
center, it is a hole, "the crib of rock", where are deposed the
incandescent stones during the ritual. The opening of the Inipi is
in the west, where, beyond the altar and the sacred path long seven
footsteps, it is the fire without end, the peta ohiankesi, above
which they become hot and red the stones. Who conducts sits down
close to the door, to west, and after everybody have entered doing
the turn in hourly sense, introduces the stones, in a varied number
according to the porpouse of the ritual. The first are for the Four
Directions, than for the Sky , for the Earth and at the end for
Wambli Gleska = Spotted Eagle, the Messenger of Wakan Tanka. The
blankets in front the door of the lodge come down, and inside, in
the absolute dark, the participants tune up songs and prayers. The
door will be open four times. Between the second and the third
opening of the door,we smoked the Pipe. With the fourth opening
finish the ceremony and we go out all following the hourly sense
always.
To Verona, thank you to the interest of Costanzo Allione, of
Gabriele Sala and other people too, the shamans of different
traditions, as like Kam, they could share their teachings for help
us,men and women of the "civilized" Europe, to find again those
spiritual and moral values that have been replaced from the
consumism, hedonism, in one word from the egoism.
Grazie Mitakuye Oyasin
Eva Fodor Tedeschi
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And he is involved with these people:
http://www.thebeaverclan.com/
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I got this from someone who is Lakota and is in South Dakota:
hey Debbie this man is not reconized in SD ,he is not Lakota and last yr he held a Sundance in parecc France, and he has a Native man who will not reveail himself ,Mr Kam lau has a home base in Nevada and a website as well. I have heard of him for the last 2 yrs and have warned the Lakota Ppl of him.
HorsesGhost
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Some of us here in Sweden and some Lakotas emailed "The Ghost Dance group". This is a copy I got from France - this reply was sent to one of the Lakota guys:
I will not run Lakota ceremonies in Europe after being treated with no respect. I wanted to do something good but i can see in this way is only sadness and anger. I am not in war with anybody.
I am have European have Native named Mataco of South America ( Santa Victoria/Argentina).
I am also a sundancer in south Dakota of Lakota tradition and beliefe me wen I say I do respect other Humans. Especially my own People!
I run ceremmonies with diff. Nations, Cultures, Tribes and Mentalities within the entire world who beliefes working together because only together we do have a chance to bring our next generation more hope, peace and respect.
I will take my hands off of your ceremony.
Phil
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That's good news Annika. Please pass along my own thanks to Phil for his principled stand. We don't run into enough people like him, and they should be encouraged.
Debbie, does your friend know just what KL's background actually is? Is he simply a Chinese passing himself off as mixedblood Lakota?
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I sent him the link to this site, but I will ask him. Kam's name came up on the NDNAIM list. POsted by a Swedish woman there. I think she is Swedish anyway. Someone asked her and she did not know.
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Al, I can't find out much about his background except he is half chinese and a recognized teacher of the spiritual tradition of the Lakota as well as Sun Dance Chief who has been a Sun Dancer for 23 years. He is a direct descendent of a long linage of renowned Lakota chiefs. Kam has traveled the world sharing his medicine and teachings. He is also a director of the walkingstick.org.
Would be interesting to find out more
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Al - I sent a reply to Philip and also forwarded your thanks. But, I must say, I am not convinced. The link is still up. It still says that Phil will be running the ceremony. All they´ve done is to remove the photos. They are still inviting people to the Ghost Dance. ? :( ? Maybe that reply was just an attempt to get some pretty irritated Lakota guys off his back.
The intitial inquiry came from the Looking Horses who wondered if I had ever heard of this guy Kam Lau.
They don´t have a clue who he is. ?
Annika
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He is also a director of the walkingstick.org.
Would be interesting to find out more
I just had a look at the walkingstick site. They say they combine Jewish shamanic traditions with ndn traditions. They have bought premises in New Mexico; on the first page it says these were surrounded by four ndn nations, while at the second, introducing this Retreat Center, it says: "We have purchased 83 acres surrounded by thousands of acres of public land and undeveloped ranch land". The Retreat is described here as: "At present, we have a small dining hall, two cabins, two tipis..." and a camp ground where tents can be put up.
I then looked at their programme for 2006, which offers the following courses/workshops:
"Jewish Shamanic Healing: Introducing the THIRD Two-Year, Four-Week Training Program"
From May 26-28: "Shamanic Healing: From Torah to Tipi. A Workshop for Healers of Self and Others"
Aug 10-15: "Lighting the Story Fires Within" - "A rare gathering of Native American and Jewish spiritual teachers and elders".
They announce the following NA speakers:
- David Carson (Choctaw), Medicine Teacher and Pipe Carrier, Co-Author of: Medicine Cards, The Discovery of Power Through the Ways of Animals
Further below, Carson is said to be the guardian of the ancient sacred Choctaw pipe. "Raised on the Choctaw reservation in Oklahoma, David was introduced to animal and stone medicine by his aunts and later by Mary Gardener, a Choctaw medicine woman. He also studied with elders and medicine carriers [sic] of northern plains nations".
- Kam Night chase Lau (Lakota)
- Blue Spruce Standing Deer (Tewa), Medicine Singer
Further below, BSSD's name is given as: Pba-Quen-Nee-e; he is described as a "Tiwa Medicine Singer and Painter (Taos Pueblo)"
- Mary Night Chase Lau (Lakota), "Sun Dancer and Teacher of Lakota Feminine Wisdom".
Now to the prices charged:
The workshop on stories, Aug 10-15, costs USD 950 if paid for by credit card, and USD 850 if paying by check, cash, money order. The sum includes: "tuition, all meals, lodging", but: "Accomodations are very rustic: 1-4 person tents, tipis, a cabin with no amenities".
The workshop on Shamanic Healing, May 26-28, is USD 550. The warning reads: "Facilities are rustic, with limited water supply, two indoor bathrooms, four outdoor enclosed chemical toilets..." Only here, at the bottom of the page, it says that - at least for the May event - attendence is limited to 40 participants.
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Annika,
You had your doubts, and they are right. I e mailed Phil, about attending a Ghost Dance not anon, but with my right address Andreas, and this is the reply
Hi Steve, thank you for your interest and decision walking with us the sacred path to put out our prayrs for our next generations. Please get the registration forms as well as guidlines on our homepage where you can download them. http://touchingtheheart.free.fr You can send them to me and I will confirm your registration. For more information please contact me and Il help.
Phil
All I need now is a load of money, flight to France...........................
They won't give up will they. YET
Steve Pattison ( Shoshone Bannock ), not anon
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>:( >:( >:( :'(
And I wrote him this really nice email today, sending thanks from both Al and myself.
Jävla skitstövel!! ? (Can´t write that in English, it would get censored...) ?
Pyia, check your PM:s.
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>:( >:( >:( :'(
Jävla skitstövel!! ? (Can´t write that in English, it would get censored...) ?
.
Ve haff vayz of translating you;))))))))
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>:( >:( >:( :'(
Jävla skitstövel!! ? (Can´t write that in English, it would get censored...) ?
.
Ve haff vayz of translating you;))))))))
HAHAHAHA! ? Oh well, thank God I used the Soft Version - I can do much worse... ;D ;D
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lol;, I can't translate it.
Is it in Wannabe, or Rainbow
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lol;, I can't translate it.
Is it in Wannabe, or Rainbow
Nooo, it´s what a pissed off viking would say! ? ::)
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Annika,
http://touchingtheheart.free.fr ?
No, they won't give up....
I had a look at the site and saw that Mr Phil C says he owes his teachings to a person by the name of Markus Wider and googled him:
http://www.stoneslink.com
Wider has a link to the site of Kam Lau Night Chase.
Wider also sounds interesting: he is from Switzerland and apparently has different, errm: fields of interest. On another site (http://www.mouches-volantes.com/Rezensionen/Rezensionen.htm ), Wider is quoted with a comment on a book, followed by:
"Markus Wider, gas station attendant, religion teacher, social worker, entrepreneur, sun dancer and prayer dancer"
He happens to own a school which offers language courses for migrants and participates in a youth projects, e.g. working with unemployed youths. He is said to be no longer actively working in this school but advises the management and owns the school.
He seems to be more active in the spiritual section and offers sweats, vision quests, and this prayer dance.
There's no application form for the sweats and no prices listed.
A vision quest in the Pyrennees from Aug 3-10 costs [ch8364] 600.
Participation in the prayer dance is [ch8364] 350 per year. When registering for participation, one is made to sign the following sentences:
"I commit myself to dance four times."
"I confirm that neither anyone from the organisation team of the sun dance [yes, it changes to sundance all of a sudden, I.] nor Markus Wider can be held responsible for what may happen to me during the dance."
Explanation re this dance given at the site:
"A four day ceremony with sweat lodge and full fasting [hey, no food costs], during which the dancers will have themselves pierced. The dance on the one hand goes back to the sundance of the Sioux tribes and on the other comes from modern forms of dance."
[Translations may be tricky, but way the text is phrased does very much make clear that dancers do not have the choice whether they will be pierced or not - signing the application form means participants will get pierced - period.]
They accept both male and female dancers.
Dancers are compelled to dance four days during four consecutive years. Prerequisite for participation in the dance is a vision quest.
I had a look at his event page: there are 3 to 4 events every month.
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It means something like 'devilish bootful of sh*t'. Hooray for the internet.