NAFPS Forum

General => Frauds => Topic started by: Epiphany on May 02, 2012, 09:59:28 pm

Title: Andrea Smith
Post by: Epiphany on May 02, 2012, 09:59:28 pm
https://ewocc.wordpress.com/about/ (https://ewocc.wordpress.com/about/)

From event notice:

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Andrea Smith is of the Cherokee clan and is a longtime anti-violence and Native American activist and scholar who has published widely on issues of violence against women of color.

From comment thread:

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Sadly, this conference has been suckered in by a fake Cherokee or as we like to call them “wannabes.” Andrea Smith is not a Cherokee and neither is she part of the Cherokee community that would give her agency to speak to the issues facing our people.

and

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There is no “Cherokee clan.” There are three federally recognized tribes that have seven traditional clans, and more clans in ancient times. Andrea Smith *might* possibly be a person of Cherokee descent, but she is not enrolled in any of the Cherokee tribes.

plus scroll down for comment here http://www.racialicious.com/2012/05/02/lies-damned-lies-and-the-complicated-accounting-of-identity-counterpoint/#more-22406 (http://www.racialicious.com/2012/05/02/lies-damned-lies-and-the-complicated-accounting-of-identity-counterpoint/#more-22406)

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You are mistaken about the issue in Andrea Smith's case.  It's not about enrollment.  She's not a descendent.  She's not a resident of a Cherokee community.  It really does not matter which credential you accept.  She's a fake and in spite of the understanding Richard Allen of the Cherokee Nation government and I thought we had that she would quit making the false claim and we would quit bringing up her name...the fakery continues.

Title: Re: Andrea Smith
Post by: educatedindian on May 03, 2012, 01:06:29 pm
She's mentioned several times before in threads. Positive ones.
http://www.newagefraud.org/smf/index.php?topic=513.msg2429#msg2429
Plus several posts quoting her articles.

I also received an account some time ago about Smith confronting exploiter Amylee Swartz at a women's conference.
Another post mentions she helped "retire" Swartz.
http://www.newagefraud.org/smf/index.php?topic=1509.msg14127#msg14127

There's also a brief mention of Steve Russell saying Smith is not Cherokee.
http://www.newagefraud.org/smf/index.php?topic=1632.msg11997#msg11997

It seems that Russell is saying that Smith does not use the claim of ancestry to her own profit the way Ward Churrchill.
The same message notes she was not recommended to be renewed for her position. But there's no mention of why.
This  blog has more details.
http://thedrunkablog.blogspot.com/2008/04/indian-country-today-columnist-ethnic.html
Smith's supporters.
http://voicingindigeneity.blogspot.com/2008/02/tenure-for-andrea-smith.html
The full article
http://www.network54.com/Forum/237458/message/1244424278/SR+Tells+who+is+Indian
Title: Re: Andrea Smith
Post by: Epiphany on May 03, 2012, 06:01:16 pm
I'm learning as I go along so please let me know if I've gone astray in my understanding. I very much appreciate this chance to learn.

If Andrea Smith is a person of distant Indian ancestry - ideally wouldn't she represent herself as exactly that?

Sounds like characterizing herself as "of the Cherokee clan" is a mistake, ideally wouldn't she know that?

Her main identifications listed for conferences include "of the Cherokee clan" and "Native American activist and scholar". Is this fine even if she actually has distant ancestry?

If she is misrepresenting herself but is doing authentically good work - does the good work cancel out the misrepresentation?

One reason I'm thinking all this over is because I'm aware that in the past I would have given conference speakers with those public identifications extra credit, extra creedence - as I would have for instance for Ward Churchill.

When a public figure states "I am (fill in blank)" does the fact that they are a public figure give us more permission to analyze their claims?



Title: Re: Andrea Smith
Post by: Pono Aloha on May 04, 2012, 07:24:36 am
And do they gain notoriety and become public figures precisely because of their false claims? Would anyone care what she was doing if she was not "Indian"?
Title: Re: Andrea Smith
Post by: snorks on May 04, 2012, 03:14:55 pm
There is the appeal to authority - if this person says that I am Native, then it is assumed that when they speak on Native topics, they have more import in what they say.  People listen to them more carefully since many don't have any direct contact with Native peoples.  There is an implied assumption (silly I know) between the audience and the speaker that the speaker speaks for all Indians.

Imagine if "Iron Eyes" Cody was simply an Italian.  Would people hire him for movie roles?  Would schools have him come and speak to them?  Would he have been the poster child for the anti-littering campaign?  The attention and benefits that he got came from a lie.  If your public life is based on a lie, then why would anyone think that you are trustworthy no matter how many "good things" you do?

So yes, their background is under investigation if they are a public figure.  Consider the John Edwards mess where he took campaign money - not to run for President but to hide a mistress.  Would anyone give him money if they knew it wasn't going to his campaign? 
Title: Re: Cherokee fakes?--TERRY LEE WHETSTONE and ANDREA SMITH
Post by: Defend the Sacred on July 03, 2015, 05:07:56 pm
There have been a number of good responses to this by Native writers, notably, Indigenous women in academia. Here's the ones I have at hand:

No, Andrea Smith is not the “Native American Rachel Dolezal” (http://moontimewarrior.com/2015/07/01/no-andrea-smith-is-not-the-native-american-rachel-dolezal/) by Erica Violet Lee (Cree)

Latest Ethnic Fraud in Indian Country, or When does Exposing Ethnic Fraud Become a Witch-hunt? (https://dinagwhitaker.wordpress.com/2015/06/26/the-messiness-of-identity-politics-exposure-versus-witch-hunting/) by Dina Gilio-Whitaker (Colville descendant)

Honest Injuns*: Policing Native Identity in the Wake of Rachel Dolezal (https://walkerwrackspurt.wordpress.com/2015/07/01/honest-injuns-policing-native-identity-in-the-wake-of-rachel-dolezal/) by Taté Walker (Mniconjou Lakota)

Title: Re: Re: Cherokee fakes?--TERRY LEE WHETSTONE and ANDREA SMITH
Post by: AClockworkWhite on July 03, 2015, 07:56:59 pm
I refuse to accept that exposing someone who is deliberately lying about their heritage, especially those in positions of potential influence, to be a witch hunt. Just associating the term with the work being done here and other places is disingenuous and extremely counterproductive to Natives controlling our narrative, in my opinion.
Title: Re: Re: Cherokee fakes?--TERRY LEE WHETSTONE and ANDREA SMITH
Post by: Defend the Sacred on July 04, 2015, 12:17:56 am
I wouldn't characterize it as a witch hunt, either. It's an ongoing issue and people have been in dialogue about Andrea's situation for many years now.
Title: Re: Re: Cherokee fakes?--TERRY LEE WHETSTONE and ANDREA SMITH
Post by: AClockworkWhite on July 04, 2015, 12:37:31 am
People like Whetstone are quickly finding out there are legal ramifications to being fakers profiting of our culture. Their new tactic will be avoiding the dialog, they're seeing that it's biting them in their butts! OH-- And I meant to specify that I disagreed with Gilio-Whitakers blog, not the fact that you posted it, Yells. :)
Title: Open Letter From Indigenous Women Scholars Regarding Discussions of Andrea Smith
Post by: ska on July 08, 2015, 08:05:11 am
 Open Letter From Indigenous Women Scholars Regarding Discussions of Andrea Smith

http://indiancountrytodaymedianetwork.com/2015/07/07/open-letter-indigenous-women-scholars-regarding-discussions-andrea-smith (http://indiancountrytodaymedianetwork.com/2015/07/07/open-letter-indigenous-women-scholars-regarding-discussions-andrea-smith)

". . .  Smith’s self-acknowledged false claims and lack of clarity on her own identity perpetuate deeply ingrained notions of race—black, white, and Indian—that run counter to indigenous modes of kinship, family, and community connection. When she and others continue to produce her as Cherokee, indigenous, and/or as a woman of color by default, they reinforce a history in which settlers have sought to appropriate every aspect of indigenous life and absolve themselves of their own complicity with continued dispossession of both indigenous territory and existence. . ."
Title: Re: Andrea Smith
Post by: Epiphany on July 10, 2015, 01:43:37 am
She has posted a response, she insists she is Cherokee.

https://andrea366.wordpress.com/2015/07/09/my-statement-on-the-current-media-controversy/
Title: Re: Andrea Smith
Post by: earthw7 on July 10, 2015, 12:57:15 pm
then its simple prove it, it is just like us on the reservation everyone ask who is your parent
are they enrolled, who are your grandparent, what is the name of the family, please don't say
my great great great great grandma was Indian that only mean you are not :-\
Title: Re: Andrea Smith
Post by: Defend the Sacred on July 10, 2015, 05:10:44 pm
This is really sad. She's really blown it now. I'm not Cherokee, either, so it's not my call. But hey, lots of people have painful family histories. Welcome to NDN Country. What she did was the exact opposite of what was needed to make this right.

One of the reasons I posted links to those blogs various Indigenous women have written about this is that they wrote about how they tried to get Andrea to make this right in the past. They've been trying for years. Women who thought they were Andrea's close friends would ask her these basic questions and Andrea would burst into tears and refuse to discuss it, and hang up or walk out on them.  They cared about her and were worried about her.

So did I; so was I. I still care about her, and value the work she's done, but I can't believe anyone who is culturally Native would respond this way. She could have made this right. She could have said, "I was wrong about who my ancestors are. I really believed that I was Native, then I didn't know what to do when I found out I was wrong. I'm sorry I messed up. Please help me make amends and learn how to do this work as an honest ally." I am shocked at how big a mess she has made of this. It didn't need to get this bad, or go this far.  :(

ETA: And NO ONE ever said this was about enrollment; that's derailing. Either the ancestors are there or they're not.  I had been told there are Cherokee, including Elders, who claim her. But I haven't seen any coming forward to claim her amidst all of this.
Title: Re: Andrea Smith
Post by: ska on July 11, 2015, 06:07:41 am
 An Open Letter to Defenders of Andrea Smith: Clearing Up Misconceptions about Cherokee Identification

http://indiancountrytodaymedianetwork.com/2015/07/10/open-letter-defenders-andrea-smith-clearing-misconceptions-about-cherokee-identification (http://indiancountrytodaymedianetwork.com/2015/07/10/open-letter-defenders-andrea-smith-clearing-misconceptions-about-cherokee-identification)

" Andrea Smith and all those like her are nothing more than the latest incarnation of settler colonial violence. Their apologists and collaborators are nothing new either. . . Cherokees are among the best documented people in the world. . . . What all real Cherokees have in common is proof of ancestry whether they can enroll or not. . .  Wannabes like Andrea use the myths of Cherokees hiding in the hills, passing for white or being saved by righteous whites, to perpetuate their lies. These myths did not originate with Cherokees. They are the product of two centuries of non-Cherokees trying to lay claim to our lands and treasury, if not by force, then by subterfuge. . .
Title: Re: Andrea Smith
Post by: AClockworkWhite on July 13, 2015, 07:29:02 pm
An Open Letter to Defenders of Andrea Smith: Clearing Up Misconceptions about Cherokee Identification

http://indiancountrytodaymedianetwork.com/2015/07/10/open-letter-defenders-andrea-smith-clearing-misconceptions-about-cherokee-identification (http://indiancountrytodaymedianetwork.com/2015/07/10/open-letter-defenders-andrea-smith-clearing-misconceptions-about-cherokee-identification)

" Andrea Smith and all those like her are nothing more than the latest incarnation of settler colonial violence. Their apologists and collaborators are nothing new either. . . Cherokees are among the best documented people in the world. . . . What all real Cherokees have in common is proof of ancestry whether they can enroll or not. . .  Wannabes like Andrea use the myths of Cherokees hiding in the hills, passing for white or being saved by righteous whites, to perpetuate their lies. These myths did not originate with Cherokees. They are the product of two centuries of non-Cherokees trying to lay claim to our lands and treasury, if not by force, then by subterfuge. . .
Dead-on correct. That is it boiled down to simple truth.
Title: Re: Andrea Smith
Post by: Defend the Sacred on July 19, 2015, 04:13:47 pm
This settles it for me. I apologize if I gave the impression I was supporting Smith. I was given incorrect information by mutual friends, and was waiting to see if Smith's alleged relatives stepped up and claimed her. That hasn't happened.  No Cherokee have stepped up to claim her, and she has handled this completely opposite of what a member of the community would have done.

http://indiancountrytodaymedianetwork.com/2015/07/17/cherokee-women-scholars-and-activists-statement-andrea-smith
Title: Re: Andrea Smith
Post by: Defend the Sacred on July 19, 2015, 04:22:10 pm
I've merged in some of the posts from the other thread, in an effort to keep discussion mostly in one place. Mostly. http://www.newagefraud.org/smf/index.php?topic=4658.
Title: Re: Andrea Smith
Post by: Defend the Sacred on July 19, 2015, 04:49:43 pm

then its simple prove it, it is just like us on the reservation everyone ask who is your parent
are they enrolled, who are your grandparent, what is the name of the family, please don't say
my great great great great grandma was Indian that only mean you are not :-\



This can't be emphasized enough. So simple. So vital. Without relatives, without community, "self-identification" means nothing.
Title: Re: Andrea Smith
Post by: AClockworkWhite on July 20, 2015, 05:54:20 am
Exactly, Yells. And personally I didn't see you defending her but simply presenting other points of view for others to read and discuss. Something everyone including myself should do more of and more often. :)
Title: Re: Andrea Smith
Post by: AClockworkWhite on July 20, 2015, 05:57:28 am
And I don't mean that as a criticism of anyone here on this thread, just really in general. In my personal life, that has come up a few times recently and my habit of taking all info in before commenting as to my opinion has been lacking, as well as having seen this on several threads on Facebook I've participated on.  This community prides itself on the thoroughness of the research presented and rightfully so.
Title: Re: Andrea Smith
Post by: Epiphany on July 23, 2015, 05:39:09 pm
http://americanindiansinchildrensliterature.blogspot.com/2015/07/dear-writers-who-think-youre-cherokee.html (http://americanindiansinchildrensliterature.blogspot.com/2015/07/dear-writers-who-think-youre-cherokee.html)

Quote
David knows what it is to be Cherokee, what life is like for someone who is a citizen of the Cherokee Nation.

What he shared brings me back to you, Writer Who Thinks You Are Cherokee. Are you an Andrea Smith? Did someone in your family tell you that you're Cherokee? Did you use that story to identify yourself as Cherokee? Does that identity inspire you to create stories to "honor" Cherokees? Or some other Native Nation?

If the answer to those questions is yes, hit the pause button. If you're not living life as a Cherokee, you're likely to add to the pile of misrepresentations Cherokee people contend with, day in, and day out. Do you really want to do that?

But returning to Andrea Smith, and speaking now, to my friends and colleagues in activist circles: please reconsider inviting Andrea Smith to deliver a keynote lecture at your conference or workshop. My request may sound mean-spirited or unfair to her, but consider the Cherokee Nation itself. Consider the Cherokee children David speaks of. Do you want to, as Smith is doing, thumb your nose at their sovereignty? Their rights to say who their citizens are? Do you really want to do that?

The entire post by Debbie Reese is well worth reading.
Title: Re: Andrea Smith
Post by: AClockworkWhite on July 23, 2015, 09:40:16 pm
Wow, I've heard of her. That is an excellent perspective. Even the wording, like "eroding sovereignty" rings true. That's exactly what I tell claimers (that special level of pretendian above hobbysist/wannabe yet below the Anglos like James Ray who sell ceremony or get on TV). That they're dismissing the actual tribal people's right to say who is and isn't a member of their tribe. THEY get to claim these people, not the other way around. One person is not a community... And it basically boils down to the racism inherent in the act of claiming false Native/FN identity itself. That they don't need Federal standards and legalities like we actual Natives have to suffer. And that, my friends, boils down to: White Privilege.
Title: Re: Andrea Smith
Post by: WINative on December 27, 2015, 05:01:04 pm
I actually met Andrea Smith through her sister Justine Smith. I embarrassed to say I was also fooled by the sisters. Justine Smith entered the Milwaukee Indian community via United Indians of Milwaukee and came with a strong background in Native activism.
Justine had been a member of the Chicago American Indian center and had a child with a member of that community, and also claimed to be involved with AIM and she said she was present at the Oka conflict. She also told us all she was Cherokee, so I thought I had finally met my first Real Cherokee and years later I find out I was wrong. She worked at an American Indian high school, and ended up marrying and having a child with one of the students there. She later hung out at the UWM American Indian Student Services office and graduated from there.
Then I lost track of her. Needless to say i abhor her actions and deceit at representing herself as a Native person in our communities.
She is now a pastor at the Norman First American United Methodist Church in Norman, Oklahoma and is still wearing Cherokee regalia.
https://www.facebook.com/FirstAmericanUnitedMethodistChurch/
Title: Re: Andrea Smith
Post by: Diana on December 28, 2015, 12:48:38 am
Hmmm...It looks like Norman First United Methodist has another fraud in it's midst, even a bigger fake than Justine Smith; Cedric Sunray.

https://m.facebook.com/FirstAmericanUnitedMethodistChurch/photos/a.286369781374527.79881.120784221266418/1070495926295238/?type=3&source=48
Title: Re: Andrea Smith
Post by: WINative on December 28, 2015, 03:53:03 am
Interesting Information Diana I read your post on Cedric Sunray. I am actually not surprised though since I have observed that here in SE Wisconsin with Dennis Hawk and Tim McIntosh, both hanging out and doing programs and ceremonies together-Frauds tend to hang together and find each other-especially the wannabe Cherokee's I see...

Title: Re: Andrea Smith
Post by: Diana on December 28, 2015, 06:36:54 pm
@Winative, you're absolutely right. Frauds never really engage with real Ndns, because they will eventually be found out. I believe that is a tell-tale sign of a fraud.


Interesting Information Diana I read your post on Cedric Sunray. I am actually not surprised though since I have observed that here in SE Wisconsin with Dennis Hawk and Tim McIntosh, both hanging out and doing programs and ceremonies together-Frauds tend to hang together and find each other-especially the wannabe Cherokee's I see...
Title: Re: Andrea Smith
Post by: milehighsalute on January 05, 2016, 07:50:55 pm
if these non-ndns have such good intentions and want to help........why cant they do it as a non-ndn?? its not like we wouldnt accept them if they just are being THEMSELVES
Title: Re: Justine Smith
Post by: WINative on June 16, 2017, 06:22:38 am
I was looking at the subject again and looks like Justine Smith has been Pastor of the Norman First American United Methodist Church in Oklahoma since July 2013 until Present they still post photos of her in her Cherokee Regalia, Here's a site that lists her credentials.

https://www.ats.edu/justine-smith
Title: Re: Andrea Smith
Post by: Sparks on June 16, 2017, 08:19:57 am
I actually met Andrea Smith through her sister Justine Smith. I embarrassed to say I was also fooled by the sisters. Justine Smith entered the Milwaukee Indian community via United Indians of Milwaukee and came with a strong background in Native activism.
Justine had been a member of the Chicago American Indian center and had a child with a member of that community, and also claimed to be involved with AIM and she said she was present at the Oka conflict. She also told us all she was Cherokee, so I thought I had finally met my first Real Cherokee and years later I find out I was wrong.

This article from the summer of 2015 is about both the Smith sisters (check links):

http://www.thedailybeast.com/tribes-blast-wannabe-native-american-professor

This Wikipedia article describes the Andrea Smith controversy, and also mentions Justine Smith:

Quote from: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrea_Smith_(academic)
Smith's sister, Justine, has also claimed Cherokee ancestry and is likewise accused of ethnic fraud. She allegedly falsified a tribal card of the Cherokee Nation of Oklahoma. Justine, who has the same parents as Andrea, also claims Ojibway heritage.[22][36] She was announced as Native American when hired by the Saint Paul School of Theology in Oklahoma, but left after three months after being confronted about her identity when the Cherokee Nation disputed her claim.[35]
Title: Re: Andrea Smith
Post by: Piff on July 12, 2017, 03:09:04 am
Archive of the Andrea Smith is not Cherokee blog: https://web.archive.org/web/20160205203505/http://andreasmithisnotcherokee.tumblr.com/
Title: Re: Andrea Smith
Post by: CrystalClear on September 24, 2020, 03:27:28 am
Hoping to ask some questions about this as I am researching this same time period of the Smith sisters' fraud (late 80s/early 90s). I sent a personal message to you here on this platform and hope to hear back from you. I can give my full name and #, etc.

I actually met Andrea Smith through her sister Justine Smith. I embarrassed to say I was also fooled by the sisters. Justine Smith entered the Milwaukee Indian community via United Indians of Milwaukee and came with a strong background in Native activism.
Justine had been a member of the Chicago American Indian center and had a child with a member of that community, and also claimed to be involved with AIM and she said she was present at the Oka conflict. She also told us all she was Cherokee, so I thought I had finally met my first Real Cherokee and years later I find out I was wrong. She worked at an American Indian high school, and ended up marrying and having a child with one of the students there. She later hung out at the UWM American Indian Student Services office and graduated from there.
Then I lost track of her. Needless to say i abhor her actions and deceit at representing herself as a Native person in our communities.
https://www.facebook.com/FirstAmericanUnitedMethodistChurch/
Title: Re: Andrea Smith
Post by: Sparks on September 24, 2020, 04:09:11 am
http://indiancountrytodaymedianetwork.com/2015/07/07/open-letter-indigenous-women-scholars-regarding-discussions-andrea-smith
"Not Found." New URL: https://indiancountrytoday.com/archive/open-letter-from-indigenous-women-scholars-regarding-discussions-of-andrea-smith-5jTCIy_mHUCCE26kGsH49g

http://indiancountrytodaymedianetwork.com/2015/07/10/open-letter-defenders-andrea-smith-clearing-misconceptions-about-cherokee-identification
"Not Found". New URL: https://indiancountrytoday.com/archive/an-open-letter-to-defenders-of-andrea-smith-v-GFYv6jsU200EUt4SMJeA

http://indiancountrytodaymedianetwork.com/2015/07/17/cherokee-women-scholars-and-activists-statement-andrea-smith
"Not Found", New URL: https://indiancountrytoday.com/archive/cherokee-women-scholars-and-activists-statement-on-andrea-smith-Rrpr-cK1CkKz6LaAZlecgw
Title: Re: Andrea Smith
Post by: CrystalClear on October 23, 2020, 02:33:47 am
The Indigenous women's open letter was published in Indian Country Today, but the venue revamped their website a couple years ago, and inadvertently lopped off the names of all who signed the letter). Here's a repost so you can see the letter + names of those who signed: https://historynewsnetwork.org/article/159925.

And here's the new link for the Cherokee women's statement:
 https://indiancountrytoday.com/archive/cherokee-women-scholars-and-activists-statement-on-andrea-smith-Rrpr-cK1CkKz6LaAZlecgw.

And David Cornsilk's essay: https://indiancountrytoday.com/archive/an-open-letter-to-defenders-of-andrea-smith-v-GFYv6jsU200EUt4SMJeA.
 
In response to all of this, here’s what Andrea had to say for herself (nothing but doubling down) on her blog site (which she has since taken down, but here’s an archive of the post): 

https://web.archive.org/web/20200516080442/https://andrea366.wordpress.com/2015/07/09/my-statement-on-the-current-media-controversy/

 
Title: Re: Andrea Smith
Post by: Sparks on October 23, 2020, 04:19:43 pm
She has posted a response, she insists she is Cherokee.
https://andrea366.wordpress.com/2015/07/09/my-statement-on-the-current-media-controversy/

No more available at that URL, luckily CrystalClear has found it archived:

In response to all of this, here’s what Andrea had to say for herself (nothing but doubling down) on her blog site (which she has since taken down, but here’s an archive of the post):
https://web.archive.org/web/20200516080442/https://andrea366.wordpress.com/2015/07/09/my-statement-on-the-current-media-controversy/

The two other new links provided by CrystalClear today were already posted in my previous post on September 24, 2020.
Title: Re: Andrea Smith
Post by: Sparks on October 26, 2020, 03:15:07 pm
Revising this topic, I found a substantial 2017 article that has not been posted before:

https://www.thedailybeast.com/meet-the-native-american-rachel-dolezal

I quoted part of this article in 2017. It's interesting that very little has been added since 2015, except a couple of recent books in the "Selected publications" section:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrea_Smith_%28academic%29