NAFPS Forum
General => Research Needed => Topic started by: mysticknt on February 24, 2008, 06:33:12 pm
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is there a list anywhere of all the people who walked the trail of tears as we got a "cherokee" here in the UK claims her grandmother was on the walk. she is returning to the states in march as her visa has run out
grandmother name Bearclaw
granddaughter BJ Hawks-Shadow aka Rebecah Jane Hall (nee Tilton)
claims she from texas/new mexico area
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The Claremore Ok Chapter of The Trail of Tears Association was working on a project to be published of the 1835 census plus doing research on survivors and grave markers. But do not know if they ever published as yet.
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Hall/Hawk's Shadow:
http://www.gardinersworld.com/content/view/45/56/
October 7th Mid-West and Wales Pagan Federation Autumn Gathering 7th October 2006 9am to 6pm Whitchurch Civic Centre, Whitchurch, Shropshire. Speakers: Steve Ludford, Carolyn Guy,
>>>B. J. Hawks' Shadow, Steve Mitchell, Michael Dames, Mark Olly and some guy called Phil Gardiner. The Mid-West and Wales Pagan Federation Summer Camp is: 7th, 8th and 9th July 2006 Nr Whitchurch, Shropshire.
Speakers to Include: Kevin and Carolyn Guy, Dan Ryng, Gareth Williams, Steve Mitchell, Julie Gater, Steve Jones, Michael Dames. (See www.myddle-earth.co.uk for more info)
http://www.healthypages.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=14845
lw23babe
Senior Member
Location: Harlaxton, Lincs
Posts: 560 RE: can anyone recommend?
Hi,
If you get chance to do a workshop with BJ Hawks Shadow, I would say it would be great, but she isn't in your area!
She is a Native American Medicine Woman, a direct decendant of the Cherokee Wolf Clan of Denton Texas.
http://www.ilkleyfestival.com/exhibitors.htm
THE FESTIVAL | DATES | WORKSHOPS | DIRECTIONS | EXHIBITORS INFO | CONTACT US | PRESS NEWS | THERAPIES | LINKS
Who will be at the Festival on October 28th. & 29th
Hawke-Shadow www.Hawks-Shadow.co.uk
BJ Hawk Shadow
0778 2500 910
Her website is down, not even cached. This was the google summary.
"Hawks Shadow Cherokee Medicine Woman who attends the Aspects Health and Therapy Fairs and Mind Body Spirit Fairs. Medicine Card Readings with Hawks Shadow."
The Trail of Tears was 170 years ago. I don't see how that would be possible, even if her grandma was very young during the Trail and Hall is very elderly. Steve Russell, a Cherokee law professor, talked about his great great great great grandmother being on the Trail.
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her old web page from 2007
http://web.archive.org/web/20070825213609/http://www.hawks-shadow.co.uk/
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well she on her way home soon
but she hoping to come back but i think it will be in another part of the UK she used to many people around here so cant see her being welcomed back
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speaking as some one who has facilitated and attended workshops by hall/hawk's shadow i can say that the information posted here is incorrect. Hall doesn't claim her grandmother died on the trail of tears at all. that is simply incorrect. her grandmother died in a hospital
what her credibility has to do with her movements i don't know
she is an an excellent teacher and very genuine and will certainly be welcomed with open arms to this part of the country - as i'm sure she will be to many other parts too
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http://web.archive.org/web/20070825213609/http://www.hawks-shadow.co.uk/
I didnt realize card readings had anything to do with Native American Spirituality...I figured Tarot readings were an Indo-European divination method....but forgive me if Im wrong.
Plus.... money should never accepted by authentic holy people in exchange for Indian religious ceremonies like sweat lodges or sun dances.....nor for religious items like medicine bags or smudged items. Selling dreamcatchers or fetish carvings online is one thing....but don't believe information provided by anyone who is trying to charge people for smudging or blessing anything....making medicine....or letting them take part in a sweat lodge or dance. They are not authentic sources of information...nor are they people to be trusted.....shamanism/journeying workshop??....oh my.
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Well, that clears that up, now the other problem is "she is a reader of Indian Medicine Cards". There is really no such thing in in Traditional Culture. Sounds Nuage or commerical to me. Maybe you can clear this up. http://web.archive.org/web/20070825213609/http://www.hawks-shadow.co.uk/ Another problem is she charges upfront fees for services, that's rather unusual. Maybe you could clear that up also.
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ickle_pixie....What does her workshop entail exactly?
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she is an an excellent teacher and very genuine
Very genuine? As opposed to a little bit genuine? Are you in a position to evaluate the claims of any allegedly Indian person? How many other Indians have you ever met? How many years have you lived in a Cherokee community? Any Indian community?
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I wonder why it is wannabes attach themselves more often than not to the Cherokee? Who cursed the Cherokee in this way? I bet I've encountered over 200 people claiming to be part Cherokee - I'd like to see a fake Crow or Nez Perce or Kiowa once in a while, mabye even a fake Comanche now and then.
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Also, The Drennen Roll of 1852. This was the first census of the new arrivals in 1839. Its listed by district and family groups. This roll can be found in "Cherokee Roots" by Bob Blakenship. It may be online.
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The Cherokee are one of the 'famous' tribes. They had their own writing system (devised by Sequoia), lived in towns with farms, and had generally adopted many trappings of white culture. This didn't save them when whites wanted their land. (Ever notice that? The colonized adopt every aspect of the colonizer's culture, but because they're insufficiently European in ancestry, they're still considered so inferior that they can be mistreated at will.)
People may pick on the Cherokee because much of the contact occurred long before the 1800s, making it unlikely that there could be people or records that could disprove the claims. Then there's that song about the Cherokee that was really popular in the 1970s (not 'Half-Breed' by Cher; the other one).
Or Rabbit's been really busy these days....
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I wonder why it is wannabes attach themselves more often than not to the Cherokee? Who cursed the Cherokee in this way? I bet I've encountered over 200 people claiming to be part Cherokee
I know. Same here. The white people who claim Cherokee are everywhere, or at least it seems so on the East coast.
Sometimes I wonder if people look up the Dawes Rolls, see one of their family surnames there, and decide they're Cherokee or Choctaw - without ever bothering to find out if they're related to the individual named on the rolls! IIRC, we've had people show up here on NAFPS who that turned out to be the case for... they basically hijacked someone else's genealogy.
And I also think Cher has something to do with it. ;)
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And I also think Cher has something to do with it.
Yup. I agree. She used to claim a Cherokee GG grandmother. She is not Cherokee. One of my friend's called her a "Fresno Indian" because a lot of Armenian heritage people from Fresno, CA where Cher is from, would claim Indian rather than Armenian. Cher is French and Armenian. Period.
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Perhaps this is a bit picky - but are we talking about some body's GRANDmother surviving the Walk? As in mother's mother?
The only reason I ask is that the Indian Removal Act was passed in 1830. The Choctaw were the first to be moved, following the Treaty of Dancing Rabbit Creek. A big part of my family were in the first volunteer wave. For those who refused to go, most were walked between 1831-1833, The other groups (Cherokee, Creek, Chickasaw, Seminole,) followed soon after, but still within this 1831-1833 time line.
There are a lot of problems with the rolls which I won't go into here and now, but I will mention that there are more rolls than Dawes - there are the Guion Miller and Baker Rolls, and the pardon lists.
However, back to the point I wanted to make, the Walk was over 160 years ago! That is at least 8 generations ago. So the probablilty of a grandparent, or great-grandparent being alive within the past 50-60 years is very limited.
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And I also think Cher has something to do with it.
Yup. I agree. She used to claim a Cherokee GG grandmother. She is not Cherokee. One of my friend's called her a "Fresno Indian" because a lot of Armenian heritage people from Fresno, CA where Cher is from, would claim Indian rather than Armenian. Cher is French and Armenian. Period.
Sadly, this is what comes to mind when I think of seventies-era Cher:
1970'S CHER DOLL INDIAN MAIDEN (http://www.marlbe.com/barbie_dolls.cfm?prodid=07-L3548)
(http://www.marlbe.com/images/07-L3548.JPG)
Also at: Cher Bob Mackie Native American Fantasy Doll (http://www.misfittoys.net/forsale/dolls/cherind.htm)
And kids all over the world soaked up those images, with no idea how wrong it was. And now lots of them turn up on the frauds list here.
What's worse, the third image: "A flowing, feathered headdress crowns her 'Half Breed' costume." (http://www.latimes.com/features/lifestyle/la-ig-0518-mackie-pg,0,6489407.photogallery) appears to be from this year: The diva master: Caesars Palace is all aglitter with the star and her 17-piece wardrobe. (http://articles.latimes.com/2008/may/18/image/ig-notebook18) By Booth Moore, May 18, 2008 in print edition P-3:
"Her new show is an eyeful of deliciously glittery costumes that hark back to the wonderfully tacky, pre-Celine Vegas of Liberace and feather-flocked revues. She plays... the Indian chief in a feathered headdress.... Through 17 costume changes, she shares and bares – bellybutton, hips and butt cheeks."
"A few of the greatest Cher-Mackie wardrobe hits are on display in glass cases outside the theater.... There’s ... the red Pocahontas outfit from the mid-1970s." [emphasis mine]
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Adding an image of the Vegas, "Half Breed" getup from 2008.
(http://latimes.image2.trb.com/lanews/media/photo/2008-05/38782301.jpg)