NAFPS Forum

Odds and Ends => Etcetera => Topic started by: nighthawk on June 26, 2008, 07:09:48 pm

Title: Shawnee shield replicas for sale
Post by: nighthawk on June 26, 2008, 07:09:48 pm
- removed by author -
Title: Re: Shawnee shield replicas for sale
Post by: LittleOldMan on June 26, 2008, 08:29:30 pm
I am not sure that I understand.  I ask with respect, cure my ignorance.  Replicas are just copies not the real thing as long as they are not sold as real show me where the problem is.  What am I missing here?  Thanks in advance "LOM"
Title: Re: Shawnee shield replicas for sale
Post by: nighthawk on June 26, 2008, 08:45:43 pm
- removed by author -
Title: Re: Shawnee shield replicas for sale
Post by: nighthawk on June 26, 2008, 09:00:54 pm
- removed by author -
Title: Re: Shawnee shield replicas for sale
Post by: nighthawk on June 26, 2008, 09:28:45 pm
- removed by author -
Title: Re: Shawnee shield replicas for sale
Post by: frederica on June 26, 2008, 10:17:15 pm
Maybe I am missing something, but I don't see how being a "Cherokee" would be helpful in making plains headdresses, or decorating bison skulls.
    It doesn't help, but most are sold as replicas not authentic. Also, does use Indian Artisans Machinque Peshewa (Shawnee) makes the shields. They belong to the IACA. http://www.iaca.com/?pageid=27  So to me just looking at the site, they seem to be following the rules.
Title: Re: Shawnee shield replicas for sale
Post by: LittleOldMan on June 26, 2008, 11:38:00 pm
Let me try this again the phone interrupted me six times when I was attempting to formulate this post. UGH  I was not cognizant of the intellectual property concept  makes sense now especially when compared to a families Coat of Arms or a Tartan.  Little bit different than a replica war club or arrow point.  Thanks "LOM"
Title: Re: Shawnee shield replicas for sale
Post by: nighthawk on June 27, 2008, 01:16:06 am
- removed by author -
Title: Re: Shawnee shield replicas for sale
Post by: nighthawk on June 27, 2008, 01:32:01 am
- removed by author -
Title: Re: Shawnee shield replicas for sale
Post by: frederica on June 27, 2008, 02:21:13 am
The only thing that came to mind when I read it was the copy of Quanah Parker daughter's wedding dress. I think this would belong the the family and I know some are still alive and well. As you say about another thing I would think they would need family permissiion. But the site doesn't say anything about that.  I can't remember if this site has come up before or another like it in the UK, I will check. But I think the other was in London.
Title: Re: Shawnee shield replicas for sale
Post by: nighthawk on June 27, 2008, 03:18:43 am
- removed by author -
Title: Re: Shawnee shield replicas for sale
Post by: nighthawk on June 27, 2008, 03:23:16 am
- removed by author -
Title: Re: Shawnee shield replicas for sale
Post by: nighthawk on June 27, 2008, 03:30:32 am
- removed by author -
Title: Re: Shawnee shield replicas for sale
Post by: frederica on June 27, 2008, 03:46:51 am
They have clubs and powwows all over Europe.  There are several threads about the same I check tomorrow. Earth just put up one from Denmark http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7vhXBFhk-W4&feature=email
Title: Re: Shawnee shield replicas for sale
Post by: bls926 on June 27, 2008, 03:24:23 pm
Don't know if these people are legit or not; haven't done enough research. However, they do have a link to IACA.


Quote
LINKS TO OTHER
NATIVE AMERICAN SITES

note: we only link to Educational, Spiritual and Historical Links

               
Indian Arts and Crafts Association
A guide to assist buyers/collectors locate reliable sources of authentic
Native American arts & crafts

Native Peoples Magazine

How to Buy Authentic Native American Jewelry

Index of Native American Resources on the Internet

ArtNatAm  Native American Artists
Indian Traders

Native Online

Longhouse Marketplace for Native American Indian Baskets & other items

Native Art Network

Native-American.com

Blue Raven Co.

Animal Energies
     
Oriental Rug Repair Co.
Quality Repair of Navajo and Oriental Rugs       

   
 

NATIVE ARTS TRADING
"Finella Lodge"
Drumtochty,
by Auchenblae, Aberdeenshire AB30 1TR
Scotland
Tel: +44 (0)1561 320914
E-mail: cochise@nativeartstrading.com
 

MEMBERS OF IACA (Indian Arts & Crafts Association)
     
               
http://www.nativeartstrading.com/Links.htm



Maybe some of our members in Europe might be able to help us out with this. Looks like the contact is in Scotland. Anyone from there or England or Ireland might know something about this organization.
Title: Re: Shawnee shield replicas for sale
Post by: Ingeborg on June 27, 2008, 04:32:21 pm
First of all, they claim to link to educational, spiritual, and hsitorical sites only - however, many of their links are companies. Probably the educational part of this is your realizing you wasted money, and the history part decodes as: your money's history.....

The Holtons offer a link to Innershift.co.uk, a seller of ndn ceremonies, with activities in several other fields of nuage stuff.

http://www.innershift.co.uk/partners/partners.htm
 VISION QUEST
excerpt:
Quote
An eight-day journey to the very centre of your being to reconnect you with your power and potential. This trip is built around an ancient rite of passage for many native cultures and includes spending two days and one night in the Arizona desert.

Here's their price tag - quite a hefty amount! The sum covers an eight-day trip, BTW, flight excluded.
http://www.innershift.co.uk/visionquest/cost.htm
excerpt:
Quote
The cost of the experience is £1,350, (Flights not included), which includes accommodation, breakfast, the processes listed and potentially the start of a whole new way of life.

To book your place, please send a deposit of £350 by cheque (made payable to Chris Colgan) together with a short note with your name, address, telephone numbers and email address. Full payment is due one month before the start of the trip.

I also think it's interesting cheques should be made payable not to 'Innershift', but to its owner, Chris Colgan, personally.

http://www.innershift.co.uk/partners/partners.htm
They list several people, first one is Sedona-based.
Further down the list, there's the Holtons.

I suppose this does say something on how serious and genuine the Holtons may be.
Title: Re: Shawnee shield replicas for sale
Post by: Barnaby_McEwan on July 07, 2008, 05:56:33 pm
The company's registered on the Isle of Man because such businesses pay no tax. It is estimated that there are over $150 billion in funds "sheltered" from taxation in this way. That doesn't mean that these jokers are hugely rich, just that they're greedy and don't want to pay tax on sales made through their websites.

I get the impression that, as usual, they think they're honouring Indians. I guess they need to hear from Shawnee representatives since it's unlikely they're doing anything illegal.
Title: Re: Shawnee shield replicas for sale
Post by: NanticokePiney on July 10, 2008, 03:54:20 am
 The shields they are selling are replica Plains shields. They claim they are made by a Shawnee artist named Machinque Peshewa. Maybe somebody should contact the Shawnee tribes and see if he exists. The name itself looks like he belongs to one of the group in Sonora.
  I knew a guy who use to buy stuff dirt cheap made by Indians in Mexico and sell it for high dollar here in the U.S. Maybe these people are doing the same thing.
Title: Re: Shawnee shield replicas for sale
Post by: Andreas on October 30, 2008, 10:21:16 pm
I am no longer surprised at the naïveté of most people, when it comes to things Native American. Not always are lines clearly drawn between anything. To suppose there is an "official" source, of anything, is, most definitely, a clear lack of understanding of Native American history, in-fighting, government impositions, rudeness, greed, and so forth. That the New Age movement has co-opted, and cobbled together this and that—usually resulting in a mish-mash with no comprehensible meaning to anyone—is an enormous tragedy, that has driven many traditional Native Americans underground, and done a further disservice to those Native Americans who, sometimes, already, have little of a rudder in this life.

The replication, reproduction, and manufacture of Native American arts and artefacts, leaves a great grey area of what is, and what is not representative of regional arts, and from whom (and where) the artist has ties. For example, in the Pacific Northwest, it is not unusual to see, in the city of Seattle, arts by Native Americans, that display the regional arts of the Northern Coast of British Columbia—which is clearly, not representational of the regional art of the Seattle area—why? Because the regional art of the Seattle area, is not as familiar, nor as exuberant with shape, line and colour as is that of the Northern Coast of British Columbia. Since such art is created as a commercial enterprise, based on the tastes and demands of the purchaser, the trend goes onward. From a politically-correct standpoint, that shouldn’t be the case, but many consumers are less than aware or educated about such minutiae as regional Native American arts of particular locales.

As for the Shawnee, and who is and who isn’t Shawnee, don’t hold your idea that there is a end-all or be-all authority of who is and who isn’t. I simple survey of the history of the Shawnee would easily dispel any notion of that idea. The Shawnee where forcibly removed from their lands, in four different sweeps—the government, in frustration, decided to vote, for the Native Americans, that those who they did get in those sweeps of relocation, were no longer Shawnee. Typically, the government kept issues stirred in the Native American communities, where traditional lines of culture, authority, and so forth, were replaced by government-picked authorities, approved culture, and so forth, further dividing communities (and creating a problem which exists even down to today.

For many Native Americans, belonging to the official, government-version of Native American, is a very bitter pill—some seeing such as "selling out" or becoming a "hanger-around-the-fort" or, more clearly, as an opportunist.

Although the shields may be representative of Native American models, and symbols—whether their derivation is from "authentic" extant sources, or are from the repertoire of regional art, is a moot point in some ways, and difficult to prove or disprove, in other ways. In a world gone crazy with consumerism, to what end would you have such an object? Of what practical use would it be to you? What is the reason you would be buying this? It is quaint to want to collect objects and artefacts from indigenous cultures, from the past, but what does this say about you? Is it status, usefulness, display, support for the artist, what?

Some indigenous people survive in ways that they see are harmonious to their traditional way of life. They live a very marginal existence—by modern standards. Some people choose to live without all the "mod cons" since those ‘get in the way" of traditional life. There are those who are so cut off from economic opportunities, that the creation of art, is one method of bring in a few extra bits of money to supplement things. Still, there are others, who are quite nearly mainstream artists, but who specialise in the Native American idiom—all Native Americans. From which of this rainbow of diverse existences, does one decide is the "authentic" representative? Such is not so easy, once one goes beyond the superficial debate of "where the store is located" and so forth, ad nauseum.  The true question is what is in the heart—the artist’s and yours.