General > Non-Frauds
www.saponitown.com
nativeohio:
Vance
took me a while to locate your reply !
Yes i'll email direct !
the nmaes you mentioned are all well
know names around Bear Mtn .
anything I can help with let me know !
i'm at >mikewalton58@yahoo.com<
Vance_Hawkins:
Al, I need help!
I have been a moderaor at the saponiboard history forum for a couple of years, and have recently said I'd leave in protest to comments people make that the owner of the board refuses to do anthing about.
Recently in response to my decision to leave she responded by the following --
I haven't noticed a lot of posts here from people wanting "Indians" to interpret their dreams, or people bastardizing Indian spirituality. To my understanding, the difference between religion as we generally mean it, and spirituality is that spirituality is, to a large degree, mystical in its expression. In other words, a religion is dogmatic in nature, it's a collection of teachings that have been codified and the worshiper is taught, and must maintain, to the letter, at least to the extent the denomination or sect has interpreted it. Religion becomes more mystical when an individul's personal exerience or inspiration becomes more important. It's not what I'm taught by others, but what I experience, or am called to, that's the most important.
So, if by definition, Indian spirituality tends more towards the latter, it can only be so "traditional." Practicising it involves learning to pick up on, and heed direct influences sacred in nature. This emphasis tends to produce a much more tolerant religion, with more humility and tolerance towards others beliefs, as was typical on this continent at Contact. I sometimes wonder if some of the hue and cry against "New Age bastardization" of Native spirituality isn't ironically the result of the Christianization of the Natives involved, influenced by the intolerance inherent in a proseletizing, dogmatic system of belief.
http://www.saponitown.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=15652#post15652
In this response she is leading people astray I fear, and people who are low blood quantum of a tribe that pretty much dissapeared from history are being turned into new age "do your own thing" proponets that the Piedmont Siouan never were in the past, and will be teaching others this is the way Indian people do things.
She would listen to any Western Siouan people who respond I think. Some say Catawba and Saponi only emigrated ast about 1500 or so. some have said Santee were in SC and returned west later but I don't really know if that is so or not.
I will probably leave that group now, but I hope something might yet be salvaged. I don't think they are beyond all hope as they are really excellent in all other ways. I don't know what else to do, tho.
thanks --
vance
Vance_Hawkins:
Maybe it wasn't that big a deal, I don't know. People from the site tell me it wasn't. But I had hoped to help these people steer away from silliness spirituality talk, and I guess I was the only one there opposed to a "make up your own religion" attitude.
It was more a little here and there than any one thing, but it might grow now that people there realize the site owner sees no fault in it.
Perhaps I did all I need to do in making my protest by leaving the group.
I won't go back there to post.
vance
educatedindian:
I could still write something up for you if you want Vance. Let me know.
Vance_Hawkins:
Well, if you'd like to do that, I'd appreciate it very much. They are basically good people, don't sell ceremonies, are searching for a heritage. One person wrote there that the NAFPS website seemed to be on a witch hunt. I got emotional and decided to leave the group shortly after that. The owner of the site prtty much gave me a little tongue lashing after that -- nothing that big. Before that I really respected her a great deal.
Again, they make a big deal of the Saponi, Tutelo, Occoneechee, Monacan, as being speakers of a Siouan language abnd feel there are close ties to South Dakota. I am not as certain those ties are all that close, tho, but I really don't know. For all I know they might have separated 2,000 years ago, or maybe just 4 or 5 hundred years ago. There was a band of them called Santee in South Carolina and some members said it was the same people as the Santee in Minnesota or Nebraska -- but after looking for a link betwen the two I never found it.
The Six Nations adopted some (I read that they called all Piedmont Siouan tribes -- even th Catawba -- by the name Tutero (or something very similar) -- specifically it was the Cayuga i think that adopted them). Some are undoubtedly presently with the Catawba as theyre are historic records of them always going back and forth between their own lands in the Southern Appalachians and closer to the Atlantic in NC and Va to live with the Catawba . There are several state recognized groups in NC and Va (Hawila-Saponi, Occoneechee band of Saponi, are recognized in NC and Monacan are recognized in Va.). o be state recognized in NC and Va means something as their standards are not easily met. This website is run by people who are not state recognized, but specific members of state recognized groups recognize them as being of Saponi/Tutelo/Monacan heritage based on genealogy.
They need to know NAFPS is NOT a witch-hunt group, but sincerely seek to help peple like these low blood quantum groups such as the Saponi. People -- especially those who know nothing of their heritage go there and hear her say Indian people pretty much had a "do your own thing" religion might foster future self proclaimed Shaman. Someone just learning about the heritage of a great great grandpa today might be calling themselves "a Saponi Shaman" 10 years down the road -- thre are a couple of posters that might be heading that way now I fear, you can tell by a budding "I know it all" attitude growing -- but that is rare and most are not like that. That's what I was thinking of when I took every opportunity to redirect people who made comments that seemed inappropriate. I guess Linda, site owner, took exception to it. I've met here and basically like her as a person -- but in this area she is mistaken.
I got a little hot in my last post so I'm staying away as I have already ogne further than I wanted to.
I'd appreciate it if you also educated them about the purpose and goals of NAFPS.
Thanks.
vance
Navigation
[0] Message Index
[#] Next page
[*] Previous page
Go to full version