General > Non-Frauds
For Those Who Recently Discovered Indian Ancestry
Defend the Sacred:
--- Quote from: two shadows on January 28, 2009, 11:24:07 pm ---In the old times, membership in a tribe or clan was decided by the members...
--- End quote ---
That is the way it still is.
I believe this is the thread Dakota is referring to: http://newagefraud.org/smf/index.php?topic=1871.0
Shadows, you may want to look that thread over, and read some of the responses NDN people gave to these same questions.
OK, Shadows, I know this is not what you want to hear, and I'm not sure that I'm really the appropriate person to be saying it, but I think this needs a response (emphasis added) :
--- Quote from: two shadows on January 28, 2009, 11:24:07 pm ---I want to take NOTHING from them..NOTHING. I dont want tax advantages or land, or scholarships ..nothing...EXCEPT...
Knowledge.
... ... ...
Teach me your language..so we can talk.
Tell me your story..so I can understand you.
Teach me your history..so I can teach my children.
Show me how you dance...so I can dance with you.
Show me how you sing.. so I can sing with you.
Tell me what you stand for..so I can stand along side you.
Tell me what you need..so I can help.
Show me how you speak to GOD..so I can pray with you.
--- End quote ---
I actually find that rather shocking. Do you realize you just said that culture and religion is "nothing"? It may not have been your conscious intention, but you just said culture is "nothing" compared to material benefits.
Do you realize you just asked that you be given all the things that people hold most precious and are reluctant to share with outsiders? That you come off as demanding you be included in cultural and religious things, and you seem to be assuming you'd be welcomed? I'm not trying to be mean here, but this is exactly the sense of entitlement that people here have been warning about.
I'm not saying this to anger or hurt you, but I think you really need to think about what you just said here.
two shadows:
--- Quote from: Kathryn on January 29, 2009, 04:00:37 am ---
--- Quote from: two shadows on January 28, 2009, 11:24:07 pm ---In the old times, membership in a tribe or clan was decided by the members...
--- End quote ---
OK, Shadows, I know this is not what you want to hear, and I'm not sure that I'm really the appropriate person to be saying it, but I think this needs a response (emphasis added) :
--- Quote from: two shadows on January 28, 2009, 11:24:07 pm ---I want to take NOTHING from them..NOTHING. I dont want tax advantages or land, or scholarships ..nothing...EXCEPT...
Knowledge.
... ... ...
Teach me your language..so we can talk.
Tell me your story..so I can understand you.
Teach me your history..so I can teach my children.
Show me how you dance...so I can dance with you.
Show me how you sing.. so I can sing with you.
Tell me what you stand for..so I can stand along side you.
Tell me what you need..so I can help.
Show me how you speak to GOD..so I can pray with you.
--- End quote ---
I actually find that rather shocking. Do you realize you just said that culture and religion is "nothing"? It may not have been your conscious intention, but you just said culture is "nothing" compared to material benefits.
Do you realize you just asked that you be given all the things that people hold most precious and are reluctant to share with outsiders? That you come off as demanding you be included in cultural and religious things, and you seem to be assuming you'd be welcomed? I'm not trying to be mean here, but this is exactly the sense of entitlement that people here have been warning about.
I'm not saying this to anger or hurt you, but I think you really need to think about what you just said here.
--- End quote ---
Kathryn
I am not angry nor hurt.. and I do not think you are trying to be mean at all.
I did not wish to be seen as demanding anything..quite the opposite..
I think you accidentally omited this bit between the word knowledge
and the list
"So ..people of the indian nations..
I want you to know that I humbly pray for and respectfully ask
for these things from the NDN people:"
I really want to say I do not feel "entitled" to any of those things
I listed. But I will admit that I pray for the opportunity that I
keep my eyes and ears open for such opportunities.
At least some Podia (myself included)..feel rejected and unwanted by some tribal organizations
(although I have never been regected on a personal basis by any NDN individual)
and the plastic shamen dont make things any better.. those ...people...
prey on the podia for either financial gain or just because they want a sense of power or importance.
There is great potential for frustration and great opportunity for the frauds to step in
and take advantage of the podia because of it.
I really dont want to seem as if I feel any entitlement..because I do not..
have I explained myself? I suspect that I am still not being clear.
earthw7:
What happen if the answer is NO!
Will you respect that NO
Will you back off if it was NO!
Isa1961:
I would just like to thank everyone who created this website, and who posts to it.
What is in my heart, and how I proceed outwardly with other people ARE two different things, and reading many of these posts, especially the newcomer info and the PODIA info, has helped me clarify a lot.
I really, really appreciate it.
Wado,
nv-wa-do-hi-ya-dv (nuh-wah-doh-hee-yah-duh)
Isabel
BlackWolf:
--- Quote ---There are "registered" members of the Cherokee nation who have no more "blood" than I..but whose ancestors appear on the dawes roll.. so why are they cherokee and I am not? BECAUSE they were raised cherokee and I was not. They know the stories, the language, the traditions.
--- End quote ---
Two shadows, They are Cherokees because their ancestors Walked the Trail of Tears and their people stuck with the Cherokee Nation through thick and thin. We do pay the price for our ancestors decisions. (It happens all the time.) With that said. Not all of them were raised Cherokees, and some don’t even know the stories, language or traditions. But they are “Cherokees by blood” nevertheless and Cherokee Citizens.
Being Cherokee is not totally a racial thing. If your mostly racially white with a little Cherokee blood, then you would be just that racially. But you would still be Cherokee by blood, because skin color or eye color was never a real big issue with the Cherokees. People were people. It was all about the clan system. The case of Chief John Ross who was 1/8 Cherokee by blood and had blue eyes makes my point. I don’t think he walked around showing whites his high cheekbones either. He knew who he was and had nothing to prove.
There are tribal members with a little blood, but politically Cherokees. Some of them do know about Cherokee culture, history, spirituality, etc. And some don’t. The real mixed blood enrolled Cherokees that don’t’ know about Cherokee ways, don’t pretend like they do, and if they do want to learn something, they know enough about being Cherokee to know that you don’t demand things like you just did. I think thats what separates the legit mixed bloods from the rest. I know I can tell the difference after about a 30 second conversation with them. In other words they know how to carry themselves.
There are Cherokee communities in Oklahoma and NC where people were born there, raised there and will die there. You can’t just take culture, spirituality, and traditions like its some kind of a commodity. Because thats really offensive.
Advice. Be yourself. Is learning how to stomp dance really going to change who you are? I don’t think so. If your searching for something, then maybe your looking in all the wrong places. If it was meant for you to learn Cherokee Spirituality, and Traditions then it will happen. If its not, then it won’t happen. Don’t push it.
--- Quote ---So ..people of the indian nations..
I want you to know that I humbly pray for and respectfully ask
for these things from the NDN people:
Teach me your language..so we can talk.
Tell me your story..so I can understand you.
Teach me your history..so I can teach my children.
Show me how you dance...so I can dance with you.
Show me how you sing.. so I can sing with you.
Tell me what you stand for..so I can stand along side you.
Tell me what you need..so I can help.
Show me how you speak to GOD..so I can pray with you.
And then..only then..someday..you will call me brother.
--- End quote ---
Earthw7 said it well. You don’t have an inherent right to anything regarding Cherokee Spirituality, culture and Traditions. Why do you feel you have to be legitimized by Cherokees or Indians?? If you know who you are, then that should be all that matters. If you want basic info, you can go to cherokee.org
--- Quote ---I feel that blood quanta, tribal rolls, reservations, all these things and more are creations of an oppressive white government.
--- End quote ---
Cherokees and Indian Nations decide who their citizens are. Not the US government or anyone else. The BIA recognizes the soverignty Indian Nations always had.
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