NAFPS Forum

General => Frauds => Topic started by: educatedindian on December 07, 2004, 03:48:02 am

Title: Diane Fisher AKA Dhyani Ywahoo AKA Dhyani Dorje AKA Dhyani Thorner
Post by: educatedindian on December 07, 2004, 03:48:02 am
Stumbled on some things on Ms. Fisher. Some accounts I'd read claimed she was Mexican, these sources say she's actually Jewish. Plus some ties I didn't know about, to Wm Anderson and to pseudo-Black Indian groups with some pretty out there names.

There was an online exchange between an AIM member, Sheila Anderson Lewis, and our old enemy "turtleheart".
http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/read/CHEROKEE/2001-12/1007811369
From: "Sheila Anderson-Lewis" <magickrn@ec.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Cherokee Circle] YOHEWA - Dhyani Ywahoo Fraud Alert!
Date: Sat, 8 Dec 2001 06:36:09 -0500
References: <14.1eef4625.2942de34@cs.com>

Very true. We have checked her out on our frauds (expose) list before. She is a prime fake, and a number one conartist!!!!!

Blessings
Sheila
----- Original Message -----
From: <Turtleheart@cs.com>
To: <CHEROKEE-L@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Friday, December 07, 2001 10:08 PM
Subject: Re: [Cherokee Circle] YOHEWA - Dhyani Ywahoo Fraud Alert!

> In a message dated 12/7/01 3:17:05 PM Central Standard Time, wb@wvi.com
> writes:
> > Then I offer this link
> > http://www.geocities.com/newechota2/
> >
> > It will prove interesting.
> > Dan
> >
> I see that the fraud Diane Fisher (aka Dhyani Ywahoo) has a prominent place in that listing. She is a well known plastic fake. She purports to be linked to the Eastern Band, but no one there knows her. In the past, others have contacted her family and they can't understand what she is doing, as they are of the Jewish religion.
>
> She is an excellent example of what type person to avoid, and she claims for herself every red flag to be wary of:
> She charges for all instructions.
> Founded Sunray Meditation Society (new age cult).
> Claims: 27th Generation Holder of the Ywahoo Cherokee Lineage.
> Chief, Green Mountain Band of Eastern Cherokee.
> Cherokee Pipe Carrier.
> She claims her Ywahoo lineage was founded by a
> legendary prophet named The Pale One (which is based on Jesus Christ).
> She claims she was taught secrets by elders and
that she is a Medicine Elder herself.
She is a Senior Teacher of Tibetan Buddhist
Vajrayana Practices.
> She can't speak the Cherokee language.
> ////////////////////////

> If anyone has her new age, Buddist/ Hindu/ Cherokee book, do yourself a favor and drop kick that dude right out your home!
> That lady is not a Twinkie, really not even newage. She is a con, a fraud and will take your money (no checks please) and you will be left
with nothing of value.
> WARNING, WARNING WILL ROBINSON!
> Jim Burnes
Title: Re: Diane Fisher AKA Dhyani Ywahoo, Black Indian I
Post by: educatedindian on December 07, 2004, 03:53:51 am
A scam by another of the Fishers.
-----
http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/read/CHEROKEE/2001-12/1007853026
From: TJIM1460@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Cherokee Circle] YOHEWA - Dhyani Ywahoo Fraud Alert!
Date: Sat, 8 Dec 2001 18:10:26 EST

this woman has been around for years, she claims her son is the reincarnated dali lama. her cousin is a fake cherokee spiritual leader in ohio. the
cherokee in n.c. are looking for him for fraudulently collecting funds for the boys club. i can't remember his name, he now works for the council of
churches in columbus, ohio. he was involved with oliver collins, barbara crandell and several others in portsmouth, ohio. dwani herself claims to be one of the councils of the united nations.
tesha
Title: Re: Diane Fisher AKA Dhyani Ywahoo, Black Indian I
Post by: educatedindian on December 07, 2004, 04:01:01 am
And finally the "Black Indian Inn" run by one of her followers. They even made a bid for respectability by hosting an evneing of old spirituals that managed to fool a state congressman and a city councilman from Boston.

-----
http://www.blackindianinn.com/bii/page.php?pageKey=2
Fire Keeper, Ebony Third Arrow, a.k.a. David EbonyAllen Barkley is the maternal Great grandson of Holy Women Sally (Sarah) Fisher and Paternal Great grandson of Abner Smith. He is the third son born to Rev. Ardell and Sarah Barkley Jr. Under Principal Chief Dhyani Ywahoo, with Home Fire at Odali Utugi (Peace Village) in Lincoln, Vermont. Ebony Third Arrow is a member of the Green Mountain Band of Aniyunwiwa and leads Tsalagi (Cherokee) meditation as passed down through the Ywahoo linage. All initial meditation session are held every Wednesday 7:30 P.M. - 9:00 P.M. at Central Congregational Church corner of Elm St. and Seaverns St. Jamaica Plain. All are welcome. The Black Indian Inn hosts New Moon Sacred Fire for Green Mountain Band / Sunray members and seasoned practitioners by invitation.

http://www.blackindianinn.com/bii/page.php?pageKey=3
With Special Guests
Former Massachusetts Rep Melvin King,
METCO Exec. Dir, Jean McGuire
Boston City Councilor Chuck Turner
Title: Re: Diane Fisher AKA Dhyani Ywahoo, Black Indian I
Post by: educatedindian on December 07, 2004, 04:10:17 am
Almost forgot a post from alt.native that talks about several other ties, including to Anderson.
-----

tlagiloi   Oct 5 2003, 10:11 pm     show options  

Newsgroups: alt.native
From: tlagiloi <tlagi...@netscape.net>
Date: Sun, 05 Oct 2003 23:16:47 -0600
Local: Sun, Oct 5 2003 10:16 pm  
Subject: Re: Word to many here. Don't be judgmental.
Reply | Reply to Author | Forward | Print | Individual Message | Show original | Report Abuse  

this wohali char.......
it could be connected with william scott "runningbull" anderson
who changed his name to blue otter.....that had a wovoka.com website.....
total twink.........and a fed troublemaker to boot........
he also thought real highly of diane fisher a.k.a. dyhani ywahoo.......
another fakeroo crystal guru
this red eagle probably came to the ngs fishing/trolling for the
unsuspecting groupie....
there was a red eagle named mohammed that hung with diane fisher for a
while.......
and j.t. garret........yeeeeeesh....they are endless...........
could be the same person.......but probably just another nutbar with the
same
made up name.......
tlagiloi
Title: Re: Diane Fisher AKA Dhyani Ywahoo, Black Indian I
Post by: JosephSWM on January 05, 2005, 02:33:14 pm
I am so glad to see all this info on Fisher. I read that book years ago. She mixes so much stuff up, littles pieces stolen from this or that. The sacred creation story, which she muddles up, is not put in writing or told to non-Cherokees, at least I was taught this. Then she has a smattering of Catholicism thrown in. The 9 phases of hell she talks about, hmmm, the nine gates of hell.

I would like to know what any of you think about J.T. Garrett and Michael Garrett, one of them claims to be a medicine man. They have now written many ,  many books about sacred Cherokee ways. Much of what they talk about is new age white wash stuff. Some esstential teachings are completely wrong. One is that they refer to the Sun as Grandfather. In my 47 years of being alive I have not heard a Cherokee refer to the Sun as anything other than Grandmother, except those that have learned their culture at powwows.

Anyway, they make references and quote Ywahoo in thier books. They speak of her in friendly and familiar terms.

Anyone know anything about these two? (sorry I should have started a new topic maybe)

Joseph
Title: Re: Diane Fisher AKA Dhyani Ywahoo, Black Indian I
Post by: educatedindian on January 05, 2005, 03:47:21 pm
I'm not surew what to make of the Garretts. As far as I know there haven't been any other complaints against them. They were talked about in an earlier version of NAFPS, but mainly if it was proper to reveal what they reveal in their books.

This is what I found on the son:
http://www.appalachianbooks.com/Authors.htm#Michael%20Garrett
"Michael Garrett (b. 1970) grew up in Cherokee, North Carolina, attended Guilford College, and received a masters in counseling and a Ph.D. in counselor education at the University of North Carolina at Greensboro. He is currently an assistant professor of counselor education at the University of North Carolina at Charlotte."

The father is actually an advisor to Ywahoo's cult in Vermont.
http://www.sunray.org/Council/council.html

And here's a discussion of what the Garretts claim about crystals.
http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/read/CHEROKEE/2001-07/0995372887

Joseph, you may know the most of anyone here just what's wrong with what the Garretts claim. What else struck you as wrong abut them?
Title: Re: Diane Fisher AKA Dhyani Ywahoo, Black Indian I
Post by: JosephSWM on January 05, 2005, 05:18:35 pm
A few more things about the Garretts.

When they talk of the Circle they talk about going clockwise. My teachings and those of most lay Cherokee that I know is that it is counter clockwise, like most of our dances. Clockwise movements when discussing medicine are sometimes used on purpose but not within the context that they present it.

They also use a Christianized version about how woman was created from man. That a corn stalk grew out of the man as a gift from Creator.

The line in thier first book about how this is all they are allowed to reveal, well, to me it sounds like a setup for a sequel, of which there have been quite a few now.

Thier talk of crystals is vague and new age sounding. And not all  Cherokee healers use crystals. Thier talk about herbs could have been lifted from any herbal book.

And thier thing about the medicine wheel. Well traditionally us Cherokee don't have a medicine wheel like other tribes do. And the colors they call the directions are correct, red-east, blue-north, black-west, and white-south but in ceremony other colors are used of which only a properly trained healer would know.

Any one of us could have wwritten these books while sitting in front of our computers and accessing the internet.

The book Walking on the Wind, the one written just by Michael Garrett it like a bumper sticker platitude saying. He tries to write like he is an Elder and he is only 34. He also has Ywahoo (I love how that looks like Yahoo) listed in the bibliography. I can't find the other books they wrote on my shelf. I have them strictly for reference not to believe or follow.  

All in all, when I read the first two books they did not ring true. Just a feeling, along with little slip ups on thier part.

Joseph
Title: Re: Diane Fisher AKA Dhyani Ywahoo, Black Indian I
Post by: JosephSWM on January 16, 2005, 12:58:21 pm
I was talking to a Cherokee friend/Elder of mine and I asked him if he has visited NAFPS. He said he has, a few weeks back, and he read the stuff about Fisher. He told me that it has been general knowledge among a lot of Cherokee that she is a fraud. He said he was dissappointed that there was nothing about the Garrets. I asked him why and he did not answer (a typical negative response from an Elder or someone of his generations). After a few moments of silence he asked if I had read the books. I said I had read a few of them. He then just looked at me with a look saying "well there is your anwer".

To those in charge of the forum I apologize for starting new topics under another. Should I copy this Garrett stuff over to maybe Research Needed topic?
Title: Re: Diane Fisher AKA Dhyani Ywahoo, Black Indian I
Post by: educatedindian on January 16, 2005, 11:46:02 pm
I wouldn't worry about it Joseph. Going off on a different direction in a thread is no big deal.

I think we can do something pretty simple about the lack of warnings on the Garretts. How about we let your post that starts "A few more things" be a warning on NAFPS.net? If there's anything you want to add to it to make it a more effective warning, I'd be interested to see. That could include any statements or comments you want to include from elders you've spoke with about this, that is if it's OK with them.
Title: Re: Diane Fisher AKA Dhyani Ywahoo, Black Indian I
Post by: JosephSWM on January 17, 2005, 04:37:50 am
That would be fine. If you could also include a paragraph from my first posting about the Sun and Moon references. To me these are very important. We are one of the few tribes that refer to the Sun as our Grandmother and this has always been the giveaway as to someone who does not know what they are talking about. Before you post let me contact a few Elders and see if they would like to add some comments. I will let you know what I have asap.

Joseph
Title: Re: Diane Fisher AKA Dhyani Ywahoo, Black Indian I
Post by: JosephSWM on January 19, 2005, 03:36:55 am
Well the one Eleder did think there was anymore to add. He just shook his head in a dusgusted way and from what I know of him I would be smart not to ask again.

A few other things. Micheal Garrett has listed in his bibliography Ywahoo's book and also Sun Bear's book "Walk in Balance". Using fraudulent resources doesn't speak highly of him.

In Garrett's book "Walking on the Wind" the first chapter is called Sun and Moon. It a story about Sun and Moon. A reader would assume that since Garrett is supposed to be Cherokee that this is a Cherokee story, which it is not. No reference to what tribe it comes from is given.

He takes so much from many different tribes and combines them into this book; things from the Lakota, Pawnee, Cherokee.

There is too much to write here but it is an ammalgamation of all sorts of self-help books, pan tribal beliefs, quotes from long ago that is reall does misrepresent Cherokee belief and philosophy. It seems it was written with the nuager and profits in mind.

If you need more detail, let me know and I will try. The books say that they (father and son) grew up on the Cherokee Reservation in NC but does not make reference as to whether thet are enrolled or not.
Title: Re: Diane Fisher AKA Dhyani Ywahoo, Black Indian Inn
Post by: educatedindian on September 29, 2007, 12:53:07 am
Sylvia, in the thread on John Colbert/Pushican/Lightning Bear, said this:

"I found the info about Dhyani Ywahoo (and then some, googling her name together with "fraud"). Considering that I went to the Sunray's annual "Elder Gathering" for the last three years, I guess I haven't changed that much. *LOL* What a disappointment.

What I don't understand is that Native Americans -- and other indigenous people -- who seemed to be very sincere to me, can associate with that woman.

At the Elders Gathering, for example, there's always one Abenaki GM, Nanatasis Bluto-Delventhal, who seems very traditional; she usually does moontime teachings for women there. No fancy New Age content... only oral teachings, nothing written down... she says she doesn't take any money for teachings, ever... only asks that participants help to pay her expenses if she has to travel so that she at least doesn't LOSE money.

...among the other "regulars" at the Elders Gathering are Mayan elders from Guatemala; a very quirky and childlike GM from Mexico who is just wonderful; Mike Bastine (Iroquois), who spent some time traveling with the late Mad Bear, and GF Warren Ramey (forget what nation he was from).

Both Mike and Warren are very interested in "nuage" stuff as well -- from earth mysteries and earth changes to ascension of consciousness, 2012, etc. Then again, they have never claimed that what they're talking about are pure, traditional Native American teachings, nor have they ever claimed that they are in any way or shape representing their tribes, and I think as long as they don't, it's totally fine."


Problem is, I doubt they are who they say they are, at least some of them.

Mad Bear Anderson was widely considered to be a fraud himself, so Bastine is at least suspect, not the least for calling himself Iroquois. That's not a tribe, it's the outsider's term for Haudenosaunee or Longhouse (including non-Iroquois like myself who use the term.)

Almost all the ones Sylvia mentioned come up here, and at very few other places on the net.
http://www.sunray.org/20th_Native_American_Elders__G/20th_native_american_elders__g.html
"NANATASIS BLUTO-DELVENTAL, ABENAKI

Turtle Clan Mother/ Abenaki
Sits as Elder on several Councils in Vermont & Nationally
Shares Abenaki Turtle Clan Moontime Teachings with women
Healer who works with herbs, massage therapy, Reiki, & Therapeutic Touch
Involved with Ceremonies & Counsels people"

I did find a Cheryl Bluto Delvental who is Abenaki. She's part of an Abenaki band. While they're not frauds, the Abenaki band is relatively recently created, in the 1970s.
 
"MIKE BASTINE, ALGONQUIN

Mike is from outside Buffalo New York, but his ancestors are Algonquin from Maniwaki, Quebec. As a child, most of his time was spent observing and relating to the natural world. Then meeting up with Mad Bear, Tuscarora Indian traditional teacher, a great blend of worlds began."

There's that lie. mad Bear was not at all traditional.

"Mike’s Algonquin birthright flavored with the Iroquois wisdom through Mad Bear, has inspired Mike to speak his knowledge."

So he's identifies as Algonquin but is claiming to teach Iroquois ways from a Tuscarora wo was very non traditional.

"TATA RICARDO & NANA JUANA, CENTRAL AMERICAN

Tata Ricardo Maye, following his father and grandfather as Tata, is Priest and Spiritual Guide for the Indigenous people of Central America and the Caribbean."

Amazing! Spiritual leader for all the Maya, Taino, Carib, Miskoto Garifuna, and dozens of other tribes in a whole region?

"Nana Juana Escobar is the Priestess of the Nahuat Pipiles of El Salvador, Central America."

Priestess for an entire nation with millions of NDNs? Yet they have time to sell ceremonies to whites in Vermont?

"ABUELA MARGUERITTA NUNEZ-GARCIA, MEXICO

...Abuela Margarita belongs to the Native Council of Elders of America and has participated in numerous aboriginal gatherings in Mexico, Brazil, Peru, the United States, Canada, and Europe. She takes part in the Sundance, Earthdance, Moondance, and other ceremonies, including sweat lodges and vision quests on a regular basis."

I don't see any description at all of who her people are. "Mexico", with tens of millions of NDNs and hundreds of tribes, is a pretty vague claim.

Another one that Sylvia mentioned and that is on Fisher's site, Warren "Redwing" Ramsey:

At Fisher's site he's listed as Tsalagi. In older discussion in here, the Cherokees in here mention that's usually a label people who've recently discovered their Cherokee ancestry are far more likely to use. Cherokees raised in the culture generally call themselves Cherokee.

From this article:
http://archive.theargus.co.uk/2002/9/23/149732.html
"Elders Momfeather Kaelble Erickson and Grandfather Warren Redwing Ramey, leaders of the Southern Band of the Cherokee"

There are about half a dozen outfits calling themselves some variation of Southern Cherokee, most with dubious histories, and recently formed.

Another mention of him:
http://www.route-one.com/GetDayEvents.asp?Month=November&day=18&year=2006&weekday=7
"Coping with Sudden Earth Changes
Saturday, November 18 1-5 p.m. The Turquoise Marble Teaching Center and Grandfather Warren Redwing Ramey will be presenting Coping with Sudden Earth Changes by Dwight Sands. Learn strategies and techniques to feed yourself and stay warm and dry during possible disruptions of our normal food and energy supplies."

That sounds closer to a survivalist seminar.

Sylvia also mentioned "Mayan elders" which is also how Fisher's site describes several people. That sounds more like an outsider's description. Mayans are several dozen languages and thousands of communities across half a dozen countries. A Mayan elder would be more likely to say they are a Quiche from village X.

In Latin America, it's a common scam for mestizos to pose as NDN elders to fleece white Americans and Europeans of their money. I don't know for certain what those IDd as Mayan elders are. Short of contacting people in whatever communities they claim, it's hard to say. Since net access is almost nonexistent. Heck, most don't even have running water. That's part of why many exploiters have begun targeting Latin American traditions, they're less able to fight back.
Title: Re: Diane Fisher AKA Dhyani Ywahoo, Black Indian Inn
Post by: sylvia on October 01, 2007, 07:12:18 pm
I'd like to add some fodder on Dhyani Ywahoo. After reading up on her here and various other websites, I decided that I needed information from a truly authoritative and unbiased source on her, so I wrote an email to the website www.cherokee.org, which seems to be the official website of the Cherokee Nation (correct me if I'm wrong).

Here's what I got from them:

*********************************

Subject: Dhyani Ywahoo

Hello,

I would like to ask a few questions about the legitimacy of Dhyani
Ywahoo. She is the leader of the Sunray Society in Lincoln, VT. She
claims that she is the elected Peacekeeper of the Cherokee in the 28th
(or so) generation, that she is of the Wild Potato clan, and that she is
the keeper of the sacred pipe for the Cherokee.

I found very unflattering information on Dhyani Ywahoo on the NAFPS
website (www.newagefrauds.org) and on other websites; it was said that
her legitimacy is denied by the Cherokee Elders Council and that they
want nothing to do with her. I'm just wondering if that info is correct;
if it is, I would like to know since I've been attending her annual
Elders Gatherings, and if she is a fraud, I want nothing to do with her.
It's hard, though, to find an official source to get truly unbiased
information on the Internet.

Could you help me out here, please? Thanks in advance!

REPLY:

Ms. J...,

I have received numerous inquiries about the woman who calls herself
Dhyani Ywahoo.  There is no such thing as an "elected peacekeeper" or a
woman "pipecarrier."  The notion of a pipecarrier comes from the Lakota
culture.  Any Cherokee may own a pipe.  There is sacred ceremonial pipe
but it is kept and associated with the traditional spiritual leaders
known to the Cherokee people.

I have her book, Voices of Our Ancestors in which she makes some
fantastic claims.  The book has nothing to do with Cherokee culture.
She is pictured on that book holding an eagle feather and wooden (or
gourd) rattle. The eagle feather and the rattle are male implements and
would not be carried by women.  Cherokee women have their own implements or artifacts if you prefer such as the turtle shells worn during the traditional dances.  So, in answer to your question, there is nothing
legitimate about this woman. She is a fraud.

Also, we have no Cherokee Elders Council.  There is a group who used to
call themselves that but they would be considered as similar to a club.

Dr. Richard L. Allen
Policy Analyst
Cherokee Nation
P.O. Box 948
Tahlequah, Oklahoma 74465
(918) 453-5466

******************

Note: The thing with the Elders Council was obviously my bad; I thought it was an official institution.
Title: Diane Fisher AKA Dhyani Ywahoo Appearing at Peace Week Global Telesummit
Post by: educatedindian on September 02, 2010, 09:37:38 pm
Found this. Apparently this mainstream peace organization got taken in by her. I've written to them in hopes of helping them realize they are making a huge mistake, giving a platform to an imposter and cult leader.

http://peaceweek.info/

Everyone please take a few minutes to warn them. Go to support@peaceweek.info.

Yeah, I know they've also got the 13 Grandmothers there. But the issue with them has always been how the group's founder, Jyoti, is using them to make herself seem legit, rather than the ladies themselves. It seems to me having Fisher there is far worse, and is something we can and should try to stop.
Title: Re: Diane Fisher AKA Dhyani Ywahoo, Black Indian I
Post by: Lodro on September 03, 2010, 03:36:27 pm
A scam by another of the Fishers.
-----
http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/read/CHEROKEE/2001-12/1007853026
From: TJIM1460@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Cherokee Circle] YOHEWA - Dhyani Ywahoo Fraud Alert!
Date: Sat, 8 Dec 2001 18:10:26 EST

this woman has been around for years, she claims her son is the reincarnated dali lama. her cousin is a fake cherokee spiritual leader in ohio. the
cherokee in n.c. are looking for him for fraudulently collecting funds for the boys club. i can't remember his name, he now works for the council of
churches in columbus, ohio. he was involved with oliver collins, barbara crandell and several others in portsmouth, ohio. dwani herself claims to be one of the councils of the united nations.
tesha

Uhm no, not quite. From what I can see, she (Pema Sangzin Khandro is her teaching name, pointing to quite advanced realizations) is quite established in the Drikung Kagyu lineage, and her son was recognized as a tulku (reincarnated lama) by Chetsang Rinpoche, the head of the lineage. (The Dalai Lama is in quite another lineage) She founded the vajra dakini nunnery as a drikung kagyu practice center. And for all intents and purposes, Khenmo Drolma (Khenpo is an abbot, Khenmo the female word for abbot) who leads it, is the business. Studied with good teachers, like Pema Chodron at Gampopa Abbey for instance) Her longest retreat is five months though, which seems a bit odd. Three years is standard. I also think it's strange that she has only studied extensively with Pema Chodron, not with other teachers from the Drikung lineage except Chetsang Rinpoche himself.

I don't know much about Drikung Kagyu, but I do know that Tulku recognitions are not an indication of someone having "divine" qualities, but are often a way to get a center established or to preserve a lineage. Recognizing her as a "khandro" and her son as a Tulku tied the nunnery to the Drikung lineage, which must have been important tot Chetsang Rinpoche. I find the range of practices somewhat limited: although they also offer Padmasambhava practice, but that may be anything. They're practices of an elementary nature and not entirely in keeping with the depth of the tradition that she says is her lineage.
Title: Re: Diane Fisher AKA Dhyani Ywahoo, Black Indian Inn
Post by: educatedindian on September 03, 2010, 05:09:57 pm
Heard back from the Peace Alliance. They also mentioned someone else writing in to protest.

First my message, then their response, and my further message.

-------------

Dr. Al Carroll sent a message using the contact form at
http://peaceweek.info/contact.

Hello,
I have grave concerns about one of the choices for "inspiring leaders."
"Venerable Dhyani Ywahoo" who claims to be a Cherokee elder is actually Diane
Fishel, a Jewish woman impersonating being Cherokee. She is the leader of
what is by many accounts a dangerous cult in the manner of Jim Jones People's
Temple. It does not permit followers to leave.

I wish to protest her inclusion in the strongest terms and discuss this with
the leadership of the Peace Alliance. Please contact me. Thank you.

---------------

Date: Thursday, September 2, 2010, 8:41 PM


Thank you for writing, Dr. Carroll.  We did receive some concern from someone else as well.

So we pulled her from the lineup until we can talk with you and talk with her.  I'm going out of town for 4 days but are you available on Tuesday to talk?  I'm cc'ing Matthew who is the managing director of The Peace Alliance so he's aware as well.

---------------

Hello Stephen, Matthew, and Deborah,
 
Thanks for your prompt attention to my concerns. I think very highly of the Peace Alliance's efforts and do not wish to see them dishonored by an association with someone such as Fisher AKA Ywahoo.
 
I'm a history professor, and also am part of a project that monitors imposters who pose as Native medicine people and seeks to warn the public of such operators. Fisher/Ywahoo has been on our radar, and that of genuine Cherokees, for quite some time. There is no evidence any of her claims of being a Cherokee elder are true, and none of what she passes off as Cherokee actually is. The so called "Green Mountain Band" is her cult, not an actual Cherokee band or tribe in any way. The Eastern Cherokee tribe in North Carolina was quite upset with her son (also a leading figure in the cult) collecting funds on false pretences for their boys club.
 
Here is the discussion thread on her. Note in the third post from the bottom is an assessment of her as being a fraud by Dr. Richard Allen, policy analyst and educator in the Cherokee Nation of Oklahoma.
http://www.newagefraud.org/smf/index.php?topic=75.0
 
Stephen, I would be happy to speak with you on Tuesday.
Title: Re: Diane Fisher AKA Dhyani Ywahoo, RE: Dance of Life
Post by: AlaskaGrl on September 04, 2010, 02:57:15 am
It is really good to see this stuff here regarding her. 
I had to contribute, I went back and located this link from The Druid Grove:
http://www.druidry.org/board/dhp/viewtopic.php?f=80&t=36680&start=0  where it is stated:


""The Dance of Life was taught and brought out of secrecy in 1984 as part of prophesy by
Dhyanni Ywahoo Etowah band of Cherokee/ Tsalagi""


"""e: Dance of life!
by Donata » 13 Aug 2010, 19:55

Hi,

I'm not sure which/what Dance of Life you refer to. I first learned it at the Seneca Wolf Clan Teaching Lodge. Later a friend showed me a version she learned from Cherokee friends - nearly the same, but a bit shorter.  This summer I took a workshop presented by Don Waterhawk. His version is also from the Seneca Wolf Clan, but slightly different from my version, and done in several rounds - that is, a full round at each direction, where the versions I learned previously did one round, with the option of doing more.

A description from http://lightangel.net/lightblog/?p=124:

"The ancient and sacred dance is 7 points of balancing and empowerment. Conscious breath, conscious movement honoring the four directions, embodying sacred marriage of Mother Earth and Father Sky and our own true heart. This is a moving prayer. The Dance of Life was taught and brought out of secrecy in 1984 as part of prophesy by Dhyanni Ywahoo Etowah band of Cherokee/ Tsalagi."

Is this the Dance you are referring to?

BB
Donata"""

Lindaa
Title: Re: Diane Fisher AKA Dhyani Ywahoo, RE: Her Dance of Life
Post by: AlaskaGrl on September 04, 2010, 03:31:10 am
Further down the link on Druid Grove http://www.druidry.org/board/dhp/viewtopic.php?f=80&t=36680&start=0#p392564
That the dance was taught to the Wolf Clan by Ywahoo in 1994. 

Below it is cautioned not to refer to the dance as Tsalagi and why...


"""Dance of life!
by WaterHawk » 21 Aug 2010, 06:01

Hello, this is WaterHawk. Glad to see the Dance is refered to as the "Dance of Life". I was taught the Dance at the Wolf Clan, and have had 4 teachers show me the Dance, in 4 different ways. It was taught to the Wolf Clan by Ywahoo. In 1994, I talked to a few Cherokee Elders that I knew, and they were unsure of the validity of the Dance through the tribe. Beccause of this, since 1994, I have shared the Dance simply as the Dance of Life, with no Native connection, and stated that in my workshops, until I find otherwise. My mistake was to not to tell the sponsors of festivals about the change I made. No matter. But that is neither here nor there. It is a very gifted dance. A prayer in motion, much like the Asian Tai Chi, but without the self defense. It is an easy dance to learn, and can be brought into ones world no matter what path they are on. It has not been placed on Video that I know of, and in a way, I trust that it will not. It is sacred if one makes it so. I have heard several people call it the "Tsalagi Dance of Life", but I caution people about that. Unless you know for certain that it is a Tribal dance, its best to just call it the "Dance of Life", and then one can place it into whatever path they walk. I'm sure that when people are taught it, it will be taught different ways...we are after all different people. "What you do with a pure heart, can not be done wrong!"WaterHawk """



Lindaa
Title: Re: Diane Fisher AKA Dhyani Ywahoo, Black Indian Inn
Post by: educatedindian on September 04, 2010, 12:22:22 pm
One site has done a series of articles on Fisher/Ywahoo. The site was down for a time, no idea if they were shut down. So I'll repost the most relevant articles in their entirety. There are also seemingly articles missing judging by the numbering.

The ones posted below, first one includes Cherokee Nation of Oklahoma President Chad Smith's statement: She's a fraud.

Second one is a statement her "band" is not recognized.

--------------
http://infinitenetworks.com/node/203
Dhyani Ywahoo Article # 1 - Cherokee Chief or Cherokee FRAUD???
Submitted by Charlene D Jones on Mon, 2009-04-20 21:43.
Hello readers:

This is Harold and we now begin a new investigation and the person we will be investigating is Dhyani Ywahoo.

Dhyani Ywahoo lives in Vermont where she runs a series of businesses including a Drikung Kagyu Nunnery.

Ms Ywahoo's personal claim to fame is that she claims to be a Cherokee, a Cherokee Chief( Green Mountain Band of the Eastern Cherokee) and the 27th lineage holder of something called the Ywahoo Lineage. You can check out her claims at her websites of www.sunray.org and www.vajradakininunnery.org. Dhyani Ywahoo teachs in the United States, Canada and Europe.

There are some disturbing allegations on the web about her claims of being a Cherokee, a Cherokee Chief and that the Ywahoo Cherokee Lineage is fake (Google Dhyani Ywahoo FAKE and read for yourselves).

I contacted Dhyani Ywahoo on numerous occasions by email and telephone over a long period and her answers to me were SILENCE. Not the response one would expect from an "Enlightened Being". I was giving her all these chances to answer these disturbing questions about her Cherokee background and the Ywahoo Lineage.

I began a series of emails to various federally recognized Cherokee bands. I whated to know if they had heard about Dhyani Ywahoo and the Green Mountain Band of the Eastern Cherokee Nation.

Please read below the email reply I received about Chief Dhyani Ywahoo from Principal Chief Chad Smith of the "Western Cherokee Nation" located in Oklahoma. This Cherokee Band is formally recognized by the United States Government.

Flag this message Re: Chief Dhyani Ywahoo

Friday, September 5, 2008 10:59 PM

From: "Chad Smith" Add sender to Contacts To: charlenej@rogers.com

She is not recognized by the cherokee nation and the tribe referenced is made up.


----- Original Message -----
From: charlenej@rogers.com
To: Chad Smith
Sent: Fri Sep 05 21:52:52 2008
Subject: Chief Dhyani Ywahoo

I am interested in taking teachings from Chief Dhyani Ywahoo of the Green Mountain Band of the Eastern Cherokee in Bristol, Vermont.
(see www.sunray.org)

I was told that you would validate her status.

Thank you

Harold

Well, well Dhyani Ywahoo is not recognized by the Cherokee nation. The Green Mountain Band of the Eastern Cherokee of which she claims to be the Chief is made up. So says the Principal Chief of the federally recognized Western Band of the Cherokee Nation.

Well readers this is were this investigation starts. In our future articles we will she what other native indian bands and the Government of Vermont say about Dhyani Ywahoo and her Green Mountain Band of the Eastern Cherokee.

Harold

-------------
http://infinitenetworks.com/node/204

Dhyani Ywahoo Article # 2 - Cherokee Chief or Cherokee FRAUD???
Submitted by Charlene D Jones on Mon, 2009-04-20 22:44.
Hello Readers:

This is Harold and in this article we will see the reponse from the State Government of Vermont in regards to Chief Dhyani Ywahoo and her "Green Mountain Band of the Eastern Cherokee". Dhyani Ywahoo claims on her websites that they are located in Vermont.

Ms. Jane Lendway is the Chief Historian of the State of Vermont and responded offically for the State of Vermont in regards to the offical status of the "Green Mountain Band of the Eastern Cherokee'

Chief Dhyani Ywahoo and the Green Mountain Band of the Eastern Cherokee in Bristol Vermont

Tuesday, September 9, 2008 12:58 PM
From: "Lendway, Jane"

Yes, to the best of my knowledge, the Green Mountain Band of the Eastern Cherokee are not recognized by the State of Vermont.

In 2006 the Vermont Legislature passed Senate bill S.117 An Act Relating to State Recognition of the Abenaki People. I have attached a link for you to read the bill. This is the only Vermont legislation regarding Native American recognition.

Dear readers you now have the offical reponse. Neither the State of Vermont, nor the federally recognized Cherokee Nations, nor the Bureau of Indian Affairs (Dept. of the Interior) recognized Dhyani Ywahoo's Green Mountain Band of the Eastern Cherokee. You must be first recognized by a state government before the United States Government will look at your request for federal recognition.

What was Dhyani Ywahoo's offical response to this information? SILENCE!

More to come in my next article.

Harold
Title: Re: Diane Fisher AKA Dhyani Ywahoo, Black Indian Inn
Post by: educatedindian on September 04, 2010, 12:27:41 pm
Her false claims about the Buddhist group she claims to be associated with, possible fraud regarding a charity.

---------------
http://infinitenetworks.com/node/210
Dhyani Ywahoo Article # 8 - Cherokee Chief or Cherokee Fraud???
Submitted by Charlene D Jones on Sat, 2009-05-09 01:43.
Hello Readers:

This is Harold and in this article we will be looking at Dhyani Ywahoo and the Drikung Kagyu "Vajra Dikini Nunnery" that she runs in Vermont. The article will examine possible Charities Frauds that involve Dhyani Ywahoo's Nunnery and Shambhala's Gampo Abbey in Nova Scotia.

Prior to its removal from the Vajra Dakini Nunnery website (www.vajradakininunnery.org/support)they had posted the following instructions for would-be donors.

"FOR CANADIAN CITIZENS: Tax deductible donations of cash for Vajra Dakini are kindly received by Gampo Abbey. All checks should be made to Gampo Abbey with a notation in the memo line For Vajra Dakini Nunnery and sent to Gampo Abbey, Attn: Finance Dept., Pleasant Bay, Cape Breton, Nova Scotia BOE 2P0, Canada. These gifts are tax deductible. Gifts of stock for Vajra Dakini are kindly received by Dharma Centre of Canada.

On August 28, 2008 I sent an email to Gampo Abbey;

Attn. Fiance Dept.
I am planning on taking a course with the Veneraable Dhynai Ywahoo and Khenmo Drolma at their Nunnery in Vermont.

I just need to make sure I understand the right way to get a tax deduction for my donataion. I send my check to Gampo Abbey with your name on my check and with a notation in the memo line listing Vajra Dakini Nunnery and you will send me a taxable deductible donation receipt in your name (Gampo Abbey). I hope I got this all right if not please help me.

Metta

On Wednesday Aug 20, 2008 I received the following email reply from Gampo Abbey;

Dear Metta
Yes, the way you described in your email is the way to give donation to the nunnery through us. We will send you a tax receipt around Feb. in 2009.

Warmly
Lhagtong
Gampo Abbey Office
(902) 224-2752

On August 19,2008 I contacted Mr David Brown who is the personal assistant to Sakyong Mipham Rinpoche, the head of Shambhala. The following is my email to him;

"The Vajra Dakini Nunnery is located in Lincoln, Vermont. It is operated by Chief Dhyani Ywahoo and Khenmo Drolma.

On their website they list Gampo Abbey as the location to send Canadian donations for their center. By doing it this way you will receive from Gampo Abbey a Canadian tax deductible receipt.

Could you tell me under what sections of the tax code for charities this qualifies? How can a recognized American Charity (Vajra Dakini) using Gampo Abbey get me a tax deductible receipt from Revenue Canada?

I just need to know that it would withstand a tax audit by the government.

Thank you."

On August 20, 2008 Mr. David Brown emailed me this reply.

From David Brown shambhala.dbrown@gmail.com

Subject Re: Web Inquiry: Sending donations to Vajra Dakini Nunnery in Lincoln, Vermont

Dear Harold,
Thank you for spotting this. Vajra Dakini Nunnery has no legal association with Shambhala or the Gampo Abbey that I am aware of, so I am bewildered to hear this. I have copied Shambhala's Comtroller, Terry Rudderham here, to see if she can shed any light on this.

I have quoted the relevant section from their web site www.vajradakininunnery.org below:

Terry,please copy both Harold and I with any thought you have on this.
Best
David

On Monday August 25, 2008 I recieved the following email from Terry Rudderham. She is the Comptroller for Shambhala.

From Terry Rudderham trudderham@shambhala.org

Subject Re Legal association between Dhyani Ywahoo (Vajra Dakini Nunnery and Shambhala)

Dear Harold
I emailed you several days ago to let you know that I was following up on this matter...

I have been in touch with Gampo Abbey and I just heard back from the Director Les Ste. Marie. I have copied his message below.

From Les Ste. Marie - I understand completely that it can jeopardize the charitable status of the Vajradhahtu Buddhist Church (Shambhala/Gampo Abbey) and will insure that it does not happen again.

I will inform Trime that we are to refuse any further donations on behalf of Vajra Dakini.


Thanks again Harold for being so diligent about this. I appreciate it.

Warm regards
Terry

On Sept. 20, 2008 I contacted Shambhala to advise them that Vajra Dakini Nunnery was still listing Gampo Abbey for charitable donations.. This was Terry Rudderham's reply to me.

Dear Harold,
Thank you for letting us know that Vajra Dakini is still listing Gampo Abbey for donations on their website. I have requested that such references be removed as soon as possible.

warm regards,
Terry

Terry Rudderham
Director
Shambhala Office of Finance & Development
1084 Tower Road
Halifax, NS, B3H 2Y5
Canada
Phone: 902.425.4275 ext 16
Fax: 902.423.2750
www.shambhala.org

This, my dear readers, shows that the highest levels of Shambhala were NOT aware of what was going on between Dhyani Ywahoo and certain person(s) at Gampo Abbey. I have learned from the "Compliance Division" of Revenue Canada Charities that you can not receive a tax receipt from a Canadian charity for money intended for an American charity.

That is why Director Les Ste. Marie stated "I understand completely that it can jeopardize the charitable status of the Vajradahtu Buddhist Church and will insure that it does not happen again. I will inform Trime that we are to refuse any further donations on behalf of Vajra Dakini."

If what Dhyani Ywahoo and her Nunnery was doing was not improper why have they removed all references to Gampo Abbey from their website (see www.vajradakininunnery.org/support)?

I received this email on August 26, 2008 from Sakyong Mipham Rinpoche's personal assistant.
It was in reply to my email thanking them for the open and honest manner in which they dealt with me.

From: David Brown shambhala.dbrown@gmail.com

Subject: Re A letter of thanks from Harold

Harold,
Thank you for these kind sentiments. I am happy to have been of any small assistance in this, and certainly understood your motivation to be like ours: the proper presentation of the teachings.

Kind regards,
David

Finally readers what was Dhyani Ywahoo's, aka Pema Sangzin Khandro the founder of the Drikung Kagyu Vajra Dakini Nunnery (the 27th Lineage Holder of the Ywahoo Lineage and Chief of the Green Mountain Band of the Eastern Cherokee), offical response to me about this serious matter?

There was none, she refused to reply to all my telephone and email requests.


You can draw your own conclusions about her SILENCE.
Title: Re: Diane Fisher AKA Dhyani Ywahoo, Black Indian Inn
Post by: educatedindian on September 04, 2010, 01:20:26 pm
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:f24v_PNLkCoJ:www.infinitenetworks.com/node/208+dhyani+ywahoo+cult&cd=4&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

Dhyani Ywahoo Article # 6- Cherokee Chief or Cherokee FRAUD???
Submitted by Charlene D Jones on Tue, 2009-04-21 23:42.

Hello Readers:

This is Harold with yet another email response regarding Dhyani Ywahoo. This is in regards to her claims about being a Cherokee, the 27th lineage holder of the Ywahoo Lineage and the Chief of the Green Mountain Band of the Eastern Cherokee.

I contacted the federally recognized Eastern Band of the Cherokee in South Carolina. This is their offical reply about Dhyani Ywahoo. Remember that Dhyani claims that she is a Chief of a band of Eastern Cherokee.

RE: dhynai ywahoo

Tuesday, September 16, 2008 4:29 PM

From: "Hugh Lambert" hugh@nc-cherokee.com

To: charlenej@rogers.com

The Eastern Band of Cherokee is one of the only three recognized tribes
of Cherokee. We are members who still live on our ancestral land- where
we have lived for more than 12,000 years. A few things about groups and
people who claim to be "Cherokee".

There is money in things related to Indian culture.

People of Indian decent often suffer emotionally from the loss of a
culture they can no longer legitimately claim as their own.

There is no such thing as the "Ywahoo lineage".There was, however, a
famous wrester in the 1960s who also played football for the Miami
Dolphins who called himself "Chief Wahoo" McDaniel who claimed to be
Cherokee. The word "wahoo" is now associated with Cherokees because of
this, but few remember why. Most successful deceptions use enough truth
to be successful.


There is often money to be made in things related to Indian culture

Traditionally, there never were Cherokee people in Vermont (or anywhere
north of Ohio).

Nobody in any Cherokee community here or in Oklahoma I could find has
ever heard of this person.


There is money in things related to Indian culture (I repeat myself).

We cannot give you any history on this person because she is not known
to us (by that name anyway).

You say " She has been teaching in the greater Toronto, Ontario Canada
area for the last 18 months and has acquired a following here".... has
she started a cult?

Sadly, this "so called" Green Mountain Band of the Eastern Cherokee is
one of hundreds of false so called tribes that we and the other two
"real" Cherokee tribes fight against constantly.
The western tribes
pursue these people more vigorously than we do- they actually employ
teams of lawyers to sue these folks in state and federal courts.

It's possible this person is of some Indian ancestry. Everything else is
likely not true.

Regards,

Hugh Lambert
Administrator
Eastern Band of Cherokee Indians

A quick review of some of the quotes of this email;

1) There is no such thing as the Ywahoo Lineage.

2) Nobody in any Cherokee comunnity here or in Oklahoma I could find has ever heard of this person.

3) Has she started a cult?

4) Sadly, this "so called" Green Mountain Band of the Eastern Cherokee is one of hundreds of false so
called tribes...

5) There is money in things related to indian culture ( repeated 3 times )

Well readers we now have the Eastern and Western Bands of the Cherokee Nation,the Abenaki Band of Vermont and the government of the State of Vermont answers about Dhyani Ywahoo.

No one will offically recognize Dhyani Ywahoo as a Cherokee. She does not hold a Jay Treaty Card from the United States Government showing that they recognize her as a native indian. They stated that she, the Ywahoo Lineage and the Green Mountain Band of the Eastern Cherokee are FAKE.

If Dhyani is a real Cherokee you would think that her own Cherokee people would admit that she is one of them?

What was Dhyani Ywahoo's reply to me about this email? SILENCE!!

More to follow

Harold
Title: Re: Diane Fisher AKA Dhyani Ywahoo, Black Indian Inn
Post by: Defend the Sacred on September 04, 2010, 07:09:06 pm
I have here an ad for Fisher/"Ywahoo"s "26th Annual Native Elders Gathering". It was held July 30 - August 1, 2010.

It's a full page, color ad, in a free nuage newspaper that is on the newsstands all over New England. The ad does not name what "elders" will be in attendance. The photograph is of what appears to be a very large arbor, in a beautiful green clearing in the wooded mountains of Vermont. The grounds are a well-maintained lawn.

Text:
**************************************
"Teachings and Celebration with Indigenous Elders.
Saturday Night Healing Ceremony. All Are Invited.
Sunray Peace Village, Lincoln VT

"'We are Relatives in the Dance of One
Restoring Access to Spiritual Sovereignty' - Venerable Dhyani Ywahoo

"Wisdom Seminars with Native Elders - August 2 & 3
Peacekeeper Training with Ven. Dhyani Ywahoo and
Sunray Teachers - August 4

www.sunray.org
**************************************

I have spoken with people who have attended this gathering in the past. They say Fisher dodges questions of authenticity by claiming this is secret stuff that most people, NDN or non, don't know about. Apparently you have to be really spiritually advanced to find the ads in front of your face at the coffee shop, or the nuage store, or the supermarket, or the laundromat. I didn't go in to look, but I think you can find this sooper seekrit newspaper in the bars and liquor stores, too. Spiritual!

At the gathering, the thoroughly non-NDN attendees were told that "the elders" want the ceremonies shared with people all over the world, because that's how they will "heal the earth". She attracts otherwise intelligent, monied, professional people who sincerely want to "heal the earth", but somehow haven't figured out that supporting a pay to pray fraud is not going to help in that department.

When one tries to educate her followers, they usually choose to believe Fisher's claims that her critics simply aren't privy to the sooper seekrit teachings she has. Fisher feeds the followers' desire to feel special, to feel like they're helping the precarious state of the world, and how convenient that it can be accomplished simply by forking over some money and having a nice vacation in the woods.


Well, after taking the time to type all that up and describe it, the ad is here: http://www.sunray.org/dotnetnuke/EldersGathering/Elders2010/tabid/158/Default.aspx  Along with the names of some of the participants.

Fees: http://www.sunray.org/dotnetnuke/download-center-t159/annual-native-american-elders-gathering-we-are-rel.aspx

"Enrollment of $155 is for the three days of Elders, July 30-August 1. "

The three hour "wisdom seminars" are $40 each.

Camping fees are also extra. They're a bit cheaper if you formally join the group. http://www.sunray.org/dotnetnuke/download-center-t159/camping-at-the-peace-village.aspx

Clicking around that site... yargh. "Beauty Way Seminars"... over the phone. Including exploiting people's concerns over the 2012 scam:

http://www.sunray.org/dotnetnuke/Events/tabid/120/ctl/Details/Mid/468/ItemID/13/Default.aspx?ContainerSrc=[G]Containers/_default/No+Container
Title: Re: Diane Fisher AKA Dhyani Ywahoo, Black Indian Inn
Post by: Lodro on September 05, 2010, 06:06:16 pm
I shall write to Chetsang Rinpoche. No one on the high seat can be involved in deception, however slight. I want to know what the status is of Vajra Dakini vis a vis Drikung Kagyu.
Title: Re: Diane Fisher AKA Dhyani Ywahoo, Black Indian Inn
Post by: educatedindian on September 07, 2010, 09:13:12 pm
I just got off the phone with Steve Dian of the Peace Alliance. The conversation went really well. He asked for who he could speak to regarding Fisher/Ywahoo, and I suggested Richard Allen and Chad Smith, who've both previously condemned her as a fake. He also asked for who would be a good Native speaker for peace. Apparently Oren Lyons was originally scheduled but there was a conflict with previously scheduled events he'd already committed to. I suggested Joanne Shenandoah or Jake Swamp or any speaker from AIM or the NCAI.

Steve told me Fisher/Ywahoo has been pulled off the schedule and is no longer listed as a speaker until this is resolved. One person in the organization, a white woman, originally suggested her and gave several references from others as a speaker for peace. What I told Steve next was that she may sincerely be interested in promoting peace. I have no idea if she is sincere about the issue, but it really doesn't matter. Rev Moon and his Moonies have also sponsored conferences about peace, but the association with a cult taints these conferences so strongly the conferences have no credibility.

Steve thanked me for bringing this to their attention and promised to let me know their decision.
Title: Re: Diane Fisher AKA Dhyani Ywahoo, Black Indian Inn
Post by: Twinkie_Slayer on September 07, 2010, 09:23:38 pm
 I was surprised to see that Diane Fisher is still active and in the public eye. 10-11 years ago when I first got a computer I had read about her and how she was soundly condemned as a fraud. These people are hard to stop, it seems. Glad to hear that the conference organizers are taking a hard second look at her.
Title: Dhyani Ywahoo speads to Germany?
Post by: beaverstream on April 21, 2011, 10:28:25 am
In April 2000 I moved to Germany with my husband who is Portuguese. Soon after my daughter was born-- and any mom knows the changes in life that come with it. I was really overwhelmed with the task of raising her in a third culture (a culture not belonging to either of her parents) her sensitivity to other people was overwhelming for us both. The system of putting 3 year olds in kindergarten for three years before starting school was horrible for us; both because she couldn't speak the language and no environment seemed gentle enough.
A friend of mine suggested a play group run by a therapist she knew and I was so happy to find some really quiet moms who knew how to let their children be children and play.

I sought out personal guidance from this counselor after that because she was very grandmotherly, she also had traveled numerous times to the U.S. and could understand me when I needed help with navigating through the culture of Bavaria on behalf of my own children.

In 2007 I was invited by my friend to come to The Sternenkinder Treff (Starchild Meeting).
This was shortly after it was made known in conversation that I had Native American heritage in my family.
Apparently some of the kids from the playgroup also attended. At that time I also had a son who turned out to be even more sensitive than his sister and the idea of reconnecting with some of those moms was appealing. My kids were happy. I had to laugh a lot inside at Germans playing Indian ceremonies. They are all supposedly based on ancient Cherokee wisdom but most of the meeting had to do with painting t-shirts and other creative activities as well as Bavarian traditional dancing. No ceremonies are held under the eyes of outsiders. No one participates in a ceremony without first having been a witness to that ceremony.

The Sternenkinder Treff is run by an American woman and a Bavarian woman who are trained by Dhyani Ywahoo.

Lately my mistrust in the situation has grown.
I am continually pressured whenever I come to this woman for counseling to give up contact with my family in order to "break a cycle of aggression" in parenting practices.
During recent discussions over how to help my daughter with her math, the idea that her father could help is completely rejected and the pressure is on to use a woman in the group as a tutor, while my husband is demonized. It grew more and more difficult to have discussions without being chastised, which in a therapeutic situation is simply  unprofessional.
The scariest thing is this.
Because I couldn't keep a regular day/time for the appointments surrounding this recent discussion that I sought guidance for, because I work free-lance I noticed that everyone who goes to the Sternenkinder Treff is also seeing this Bavarian Psychotherapist!

My friend and another young mother I have grown close to have been in counseling with her for 10 years! Neither of them feels safe outside of their contact with her, group members or the group! The one young mother also brings her children to their kindergarten.
Both have alienated their own parents and family completely at the prompting of this therapist.

This group also rents a store and uses the back rooms as an after school program and kindergarten/playgroup for the people who attend the Sternenkindertreff. I am always encouraged to bring my son there instead of the kindergarten he is in because it is "unhealthy" for him there.

My concern is that through Diane Fisher's organization and influence- these two individuals are involved in cult recruiting and cult building. Although the original intentions may have been healthy it seems somewhere it has taken a turn.
I am seriously worried about mental abuse right now. The lie begun by Diane Fisher and her group continues to be harmful in subtle but destructive ways. If there is something seriously rotten at the core of the therapy or therapy-related group work (aka the Sternenkinder Treff), then there is something rotten in all the relationships between leader/follower, therapist/patient, ceremony-giver/ceremony-taker.

This makes me feel unsafe an abused - next to this conviction of having also been supported and helped to grow. But the growth seems to come with a catch. It will never be entirely MY decision how and when and with whom and in which direction I grow. It has to be in the periphery and company and within the value-system set by the leader(s).
I am convinced of the truth of much of the wisdom I gained from being among very calm sensitive and peaceful people and will hope to put them into practice for the rest of my life. They are mirrored in the wisdom that I share with completely different people with completely different spiritual orientations and life stories.

I really truly feel an abuse of power is going on here and would appreciate more research into this Fake Cherokee group and their practices outside of the U.S. it seems in Poland there are two psychotherapists posing as elders who also have a group going. This blurred line between psychotherapist and ceremony seller is frightening because of the abuse of power issue and the incredible subtle manner that mind control can take hold.

I've read recently in my hunt for clarity in this matter that new agers are "looking for their light families" in the run up to 2012.
 I think this kind of subtle cult activity will continue to grow as fear drives more people to dependency.
I am currently spreading the word about Diane Fisher to my two friends and I hope to give them all known information for them to make their own decisions. I am not certain if I am interested in making a challenge to this Leader of the group at this time. I have posed many questions to her previous to this regarding the legitimacy of the Native American claim of Diane Fisher and get the same stories.

Any feedback or similar findings about this group would be very enlightening.






Title: Re: Dhyani Ywahoo speads to Germany?
Post by: nemesis on April 21, 2011, 10:54:44 am
I am pushed for time but having read your post it rang many different alarm bells for me and I am very concerned about the situation you describe.

Alienating victims from their families is a high priority for criminals who exploit the vulnerable, not just cults but fortune tellers and psychics who deplete people's bank accounts.  It is sooo much easier to abuse people once they are isolated, mistrustful and dependent on the fortune teller / psychic / cult.

I have worked in mental health for many years (I do not want to give exact details to protect my identity) and I can assure you that no proper counsellor or therapist would behave in the way that these people are behaving.

Sadly it is definitely the case that many newage frauds and criminals, individual entrepreneurs, small groups and also large organised networks use the disguise of counselling and therapy to recruit, control and ultimately abuse victims.  Usually these so called counsellors and therapists have flaky, non-recognised qualifications, however recent trends have been for networks to recruit and corrupt properly qualified counsellors and therapists.

Also in the newage arena things have been complicated by the history of the various Rajneesh (later Osho) based "therapy" trainings that while very unorthodox (and usually involving sex) have been accepted as proper qualifications by newage communities since the 1980s.

The situation you describe where everyone in the group has been seeing the same therapist is a situation that is unorthodox, unprofessional and deeply concerning.  I am familiar with a similar situation re a tantric cult in Finland where many women and girls were sexually abused by a "psychiatrist" (in fact he was not properly qualified to work in Finland) and many of the members of the cult were seeing this same abusive psychiatrist.  

If you have any further identifying details re these "therapists" I would be interested to hear about them.  

I am not at all sure what is going on in the situation you describe but I think you are brave to have been able to resist the pressure to conform and to challenge the status quo.

I think you are absolutely correct to be concerned and I am very pleased that you are posting here.  I hope that other people, more knowledgeable than me can be of further help to you.  

I just had a quick google and your german group appears to be associated with this group

http://sunray.org

a weird blend on Buddhism and Cherokee paths  ???

also lots of stuff about her being a fraud here
http://www.infinitenetworks.com/

Title: Re: Dhyani Ywahoo speads to Germany?
Post by: beaverstream on April 22, 2011, 11:54:44 pm
Thanks!
The articles from infinite I already found here posted by educatedindian, I believe, on previous discussions about Fisher. It was what completely washed away any of my doubts about her being a fraud.

I have more relevant information to share that I have been gathering through members over time and from other professionals in the community.
The German website is new! OMG I had no idea the whole thing has grown into so many other groups. The Sunday school in Munich is potentially not associated with Fr. Biebel and the Starchild meeting. Starchild facilitators are Dr. Deita Biebel and Amtul (Katherine Amtul Hannan). She is a therapist/homeopath working outside of Albuquerque, NM. I've confirmed with other group members that she (Amtul) does charge to lead any ceremonies but it is only mentioned to the ceremony participant not communicated in some sort of price list.

I spoke in great depth with my long time friend who introduced me to the group.  I learned that her "therapy" ended two to three years ago when Dr. Biebel had to retire. Under her encouragement my friend was coached into tutoring students in her town and to invite or bring them and their families to Sternenkindertreff. For coaching from Fr. Biebel on how to tutor these kids she paid 100 Euros for a one hour session every week, cash! Dr. Biebel as a retiree can only take patients who pay cash or are privately insured. All doctors in Germany can charge for "theraputic counseling". She was actually a gynecologist (obgyn) but gave up the practice and went into full-time counseling sometime after the Sternenkindertreff began here 19 years ago. She participated in some sort of 3 year program of alternative psychotherapy which I still need to find out more about. Some alarming terms that I have not properly translated yet have come up and basically describe a technique used by the Nazis (I am not stating that this woman is a Nazi) to manipulate people into committing their thinking to the group thinking. (Sorry a more eloquent translation isn't possible at the moment)

What is alarming is the access to children here through the programs. There is a general frustration about the schools and the kindergartens here and the incredible pressure the kids live under (in Bavaria by the 4th grade the kids are tested) and based on this test and their grades it is decided if they are allowed to go to grammar school (gymnasuim-eventually access to a university) technical school (realschule-access to a handworker or technician career) or general school (hauptschule-you work as a cashier your life long).
The pressure on the kids (4th graders) is enormous and the money to be made in opening alternative schools is BIG. This is the flaw in a society that is ripe for a cult to step into and collect the "refugees" from a morally bankrupt school system.

From my friend the tutor I also learned that this Fr. Biebel is considering a "break" from the group in Vermont.
They apparently wanted to film the Starchild meeting here and she has not complied.

It makes me wonder where does the line get drawn between-individuals who are pretty excited to have received training as "Peacekeepers" through Sunray, are given a Cherokee name, and want to use what they learned now to "help others"-----and fully fledged cult recruiters? Is it the method? Is it only when you stop letting people leave the group?

I have no problem labeling this borrowing of ceremony as unethical.

Here is a translation of the description of the founder of the Sunday school
Waya Usdi

(Tsalagi für: Kleiner Wolf, bürgerlich: Kilian Keller) Cherokee for Little Wolf, citizen name Kilian Keller

 

Vater von zwei Kindern; Studiert seit 1991 die Praxis der Indianer Nordamerikas, insbesondere der Tsalagi (Cherokee)

Father of two children;since 1991 has studied the medicine of the Indians of North America,specializing in Cherokee

und hatte seit Anfang der 1990er Jahre den Traum von einer andersartigen Schule des Erwachsenwerdens.
 and since the 1990's had the dream of establishing an alternative school for growing up.
Basketholder in dem Gaduji für Bauwesen, Angehöriger der Gadujis  (Medizingesellschaften) für Heilwesen, Lehren und Trommeln,

beruflich Immobilienmanager eines internationalen Unternehmens

He is a basketholder of the Building Gaduji and a member of the Healing, Teaching and Drumming Gadujis. He is a real estate manager for an international company.

 

Who are the Gaduji?
Title: Re: Dhyani Ywahoo speads to Germany?
Post by: MrPiz on April 23, 2011, 09:12:40 am
Quote
I have not properly translated yet

I could do my very best helping you with translations (I live in Germany).

Here is the link to the english version of the HP http://diesonntagsschule.de/people_us.html

I have no clue what Gaduji means or is comming from. It´s statet as a medicnesociety...... ´whatever that means...

Title: Re: Dhyani Ywahoo speads to Germany?
Post by: beaverstream on April 23, 2011, 10:39:49 am
Thanks for your offer MrPiz. I am really struggling with the term "gleichschaltung" and its explanation.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gleichschaltung

Quote
the political party is considered the generator, and every member of a political body, a professional group or society is considered a motor wired to it

It is a REALLY strong term.

It is apparently a technique taught by some alternative therapeutic trainings that popped up around here as a means of group therapy. I do not know much about this and cannot confirm it. It was relayed to me by another OBGYN who had definite misgivings about the theraputic practices in this group and believes this is part of it. She holds Dr. B responsible for the death of her friend, some many years back, who was involved in the group.
I'm digging pretty deep here because of the broad offerings to children through the group.
It's great to teach kids about nature local habitats, and Native ways but where does it stop at information (mostly false information funneling from the Sunray group) and become indoctrination.
Title: Re: Dhyani Ywahoo speads to Germany?
Post by: Superdog on April 23, 2011, 01:50:24 pm
I checked out the link MrPiz provided (the english language version page)

There's all kinds of issues with this group.  I'll bring up a few of the most obvious which I saw outlined in the acknowledgements (in bold)

http://www.diesonntagsschule.de/people_us.html

Acknowledgements:

 We wish to express our gratitude to the following people and organisations:

Ven. Dhyani Ywahoo, Spokesperson of the Green Mountain Band of the Eastern Cherokee, 27th generation lineage holder of the Yahoo tradition. Teacher and leader of Sunray Meditation Society. With her courage to share traditional Native American medicine with non-natives she has helped to build a working community and laid the groundworks upon which the Sunday School has been built.
(www.sunray.org)


 Reverend Amtul, minister and leader of the Starchild Gathering: Her wonderful cherokee based programs for children are always inspiring.

 Standing Bear: Teacher and minister of the Western Cherokee. His unusual and inspiring history has proved the importance of these ways.
(www.sevenwinds.com)


 Dwight ?, Lakota: Dwight was a simple man - the epitome of radiating wisdom. He taught and lead by the example of his own life.

 Grandfather Eagle Dedam, Micmac: Meeting him was a turning point in the lives of many..
 
Jim Yellowhorse, Lakota: A wise elder, who showed patience for the right moment, deep compassion and ever present wisdom.

Forrest Carter, Cherokee: This writer created our program with his novel "The education of Little Tree
 
Susan E. Keller: She supports the Sunday School in many ways not the least of which her hospitality.
 
Pestalozzi-Realschule in Munich, which recognized and supported the Sunday School as a welcome addition to it's own educational program.

-----------------------------------------------

Well first there's Diane Fisher (aka Dhyani Ywahoo) who most of this thread is about.  I find the spelling mistake above kinda funny though (Yahoo tradition  ;) )

The Standing Bear reference opens up the SevenWinds.com page.  It's a non-profit (501c3) that seems to want to create an alternative indigenous community of some sort....hard to really tell.  Here's their "vision" of what they're about....the "teacher and minister of the Western Cherokee" title I'm sure is offensive to any Cherokees that read it, but if you go onto their website be prepared to be even more offended as nothing of what is offered resembles Cherokees....

http://www.members.cox.net/sevenwinds/Vision.htm

"We Ani Yvnwiya ( mountain people) are the seventh of the seven generations of our Sacred Ancestors, since the coming of anglo-europeans to Turtle Island (the North American continent). Ancient prophecies speak of the restoration of ancestral Matrilineal power in this generation. This empowerment will be the source that draws the four original races of the human tribe together in the closure of the Sacred Hoop. This closure will manifest the return to spiritual balance of all the interdependent elements of the earth. Responding then, the four races will move in the harmony and balance of one heart, one mind, and one spirit. The fulfillment of this Sacred Prophecy is the intention of Seven Winds; to provide land, facilities and programs to manifest the closure of the hoop and the fulfillment of these prophecies for the future seven generations of our children."

And then there's the Forrest Carter "Education of Little Tree" reference.  I'm sure for most of the members this isn't news, but for anyone that doesn't know, Forrest Carter was revealed after his death to be Asa Carter.  Asa Carter was a KKK member (in fact, he chose the name Forrest in honor of Nathan Bedford Forrest, founder of the KKK) and the racist speechwriter for one of the biggest segragationist/racist politicians we've had in the US...George Wallace (Carter wrote Wallace's slogan ""Segregation today, segregation tomorrow, segregation forever").  "The Education of Little Tree" is a fantasy that is essentially sentimental drivel framed around a concept he knew would sell, but devoid of real facts.  It was sold originally as non-fiction until the truth about the writer was revealed to the literary world.

The fact that they give credit to Asa as "creating our program" with his novel is disturbing, yet not unnexpected.  There are still people today that are fooled by his ruse (even Oprah Winfrey once announced it on her show as a book of the month until someone clued her in).  But there it is in plain English.....their whole program is based on a fantasy.

Superdog
Title: Re: Dhyani Ywahoo speads to Germany?
Post by: Ingeborg on April 23, 2011, 05:25:01 pm
First of all, Fisher aka Ywahoo has been present on the European markets for years, her books are still being sold and have seen German translations. So a group cooperating with her and working according to her alleged teachings should not be a complete surprise.


I see numerous entries for „Dr. Dieta Biebel“ in various platforms listing medical doctors (as doctors may not do advertisements according to German law, such platforms are in use to be able to do concealed advertisement). From these entries, Biebel is a psychologist.


However, Biebel is mentioned at sunray.org:

http://www.sunray.org/dotnetnuke/AboutUs/SunrayCommunities/GermanandSwisscommunities/tabid/191/Default.aspx

They mention groups in four German cities: Munich, Frankfort, Warburg, and Ravensburg (each town in a different federal state).

Biebel gets another mention as an alleged elder at the sunray.org site:

http://www.sunray.org/dotnetnuke/EldersGathering/PeaceVillageElders/tabid/156/Default.aspx

Quote
Dr. Dieta Biebel, Germany

Dr. Dieta Biebel is a Grandmother of Bavaria, known for sharing stories and traditions from her Bavarian elders and village. Obstetrician, Psychoanalyst for those 0-99 years, and Star Child Focalizer, she is world renowned for her research on schizophrenia. “I am a midwife for all healing birth processes, using the power of the trees and animals.”


Regarding the claim of Biebel being „world renowned for her research“, google results do not  validate this. I also could not find any validation for Biebel ever having been an obstetrician or gynecologist. However, Biebel seems to have written a few articles in a German language journal – Dynamic Psychiatry - earlier, there are four articles listed:

No 43, issue 2 1977: Example of catching up a development of ego
No 46, issue 5 1977 : Deficite ego and pregnancy
No 78, issue 5/6 1978: Descripton of the therapy of a psychosis
No 60, issue 1 1980: Development of a psycho-somatic symptom as an expression of ego-structural changes in the psycho-therapeutic process of a psychotically depressive patient

A mere four articles is not quite what one would expect in the way of output from someone of real world renown, especially since there are no later publications as the one from 1980.


However, our friends at Esowatch have got an article on this journal and on Dynamic Psychiatry. They say:

http://www.esowatch.com/ge/index.php?title=Dynamische_Psychiatrie_nach_Ammon

„Dynamic Psychiatry according to Ammon is a controversial method in psychotherapy basing on German psychiatrist Günther Ammon (1918-1995) which came into being from 1968 on and saw itself as a link between psycho-analysis and psychiatry. It is a method outside of established psycho-analysis and is not accepted by the scientific community.

Dynamic Psychiatry is taught and practiced in two institutions of German Academy for Psycho-Analysis (DAP) in Munich and Berlin. Founder Günther Ammon was DAP president from its foundation in 1969 until May 6, 1985, and from March 7, 1986 until his death in 1995[...]“

„Criticism:
Critics and former patients accused DAP and Günther Ammon of totalitarian, cult-like structures. Patients reported arbritaryness, dishonourable treatment, breach of medical confidentiality, break-downs, and defenceless dependency from the DAP community. The separation from family and therapies taking years, caused a mental dependancy of the patient from DAB.“


Beaverstream, this seems to be far more important for what you were/are going through than the connection to Diane Fisher and her 'teachings'.

From what you say, Biebel most probably was not accredited with the German public health service system in the first place, so she was not in a position to treat patients under the public health insurance system. Individual private health insurances, however, may cover treatment with DP so that patients insured on so-called private terms may be refunded by these insurances. This means that patients seeing her will have to cover all fees from their own pocket with no or limited possibility of refunding.


Title: Re: Dhyani Ywahoo speads to Germany?
Post by: beaverstream on April 23, 2011, 10:01:08 pm
Ingeborg
Dr. Biebel I believe may have had only a medical doctor degree and was specializing in Geburtshilfe or working in a practice of OBGYN I am not familiar with the German University system to elaborate on that subject. I do know that she was taking Krankenkasse patients until a few years ago when she retired and either you moved to Private insurance or paid cash.

This business of Dynamic Psychiatry is shocking to say the least.

This link could probably use a translation too (my German skills are good in terms of comprehension but not that advanced to translate) it discusses some of the group situations and fall outs within their own system, Dr. Amman's, as well.
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deutsche_Akademie_f%C3%BCr_Psychoanalyse

Quote
Diese Publikation beinhaltet einen Erfahrungsbericht der Oberschwester, die von Juni 1980 bis März 1985 in der Klinik Menterschwaige gearbeitet und vorher seit 1975 bei der DAP in Behandlung war, und einen Erfahrungsbericht bzw. Kommentare (anonym) eines langjährigen Mitarbeiters. Hansjörg Hemminger untersucht in einem eigenen Kapitel die DAP unter dem Blickwinkel eines totalitären Kults. Anfang der 1990er Jahre veröffentlichte der Psychologe und Psychoanalytiker Wolfgang Schmidbauer („Helfersyndrom“) seine Erfahrungen, die Ende 1973 zur Trennung von Ammon führten. Auch er berichtet von der Schwierigkeit zu diskutieren, von als Beschimpfung empfundenen Konfrontationen Ammons und der Psychologisierung von Verhalten in Alltagssituationen: „Wenn ein Dozent nicht einsieht, weshalb er unbezahlt arbeiten soll, während andere Dozenten gut verdienen, dann geht es nicht darum, seine paranoiden Tendenzen oder sein Loch im Ich zu deuten.“[45] Die übrigen, die sich in der gleichen Gruppe von Ammon getrennt haben, berichteten ähnliches.[46] Als Beispiel für extreme Form von narzisstischen Missbrauch in einer Psychotherapie (der Therapeut nutzt den Patienten zur Selbstwertsteigerung aus) werden mit Referenz auf Hansjörg Hemminger die Vorkommnisse in der DAP von einem Psychotherapeuten in der Fachliteratur bewertet.[47] Abseits des fachlichen Mainstreams wurden die DAP und Günther Ammon auch innerhalb der Antipsychiatriebewegung kritisiert. [48]


----Fake Indian cult builders meet therapeutic cult building---
This dynamic therapy issue is most relevant to the Sternenkinder group for sure. But the problem keeps going doesn't it.

Superdog,

Your pointing out of the supporters of the Sundayschool lists the Pestalozzi- Realschule (a middle and secondary school)
Quote
Pestalozzi-Realschule in Munich, which recognized and supported the Sunday School as a welcome addition to it's own educational program.

Read more: http://www.newagefraud.org/smf/index.php?action=post;topic=3302.0;num_replies=6#ixzz1KNrQOt5M

I tried to find a connection to the staff of the Pestalozzi School and the Sundayschool staff but no names in common turned up on their website staff lists. These kids' curriculum now includes a group directly related to Sunray. More children!!!
I would be interested to know if Mr. Bornschein, the school director, has any idea about the Sundayschool's supporters and their controversial methods and teachings. Would the Elternbeirat (parent's board of directors) appreciate this?



Title: Re: Dhyani Ywahoo speads to Germany?
Post by: Ingeborg on April 23, 2011, 10:29:40 pm

Quote from: beaverstream
What is alarming is the access to children here through the programs. There is a general frustration about the schools and the kindergartens here and the incredible pressure the kids live under (in Bavaria by the 4th grade the kids are tested) and based on this test and their grades it is decided if they are allowed to go to grammar school (gymnasuim-eventually access to a university) technical school (realschule-access to a handworker or technician career) or general school (hauptschule-you work as a cashier your life long).
The pressure on the kids (4th graders) is enormous and the money to be made in opening alternative schools is BIG. This is the flaw in a society that is ripe for a cult to step into and collect the "refugees" from a morally bankrupt school system.

As I get the impression that this information perhaps is also used to put you under additional pressure and stress, I would like to address the issue here, although it is OT.

What you say about the school system is basically true – but it is only a tiny part of the truth. The German educational system is far more flexible and permeable as you believe. True, there is a test still done in Bavaria when children are in 4th grade (the test has been abolished in most of the other federal states). The test is done over two weeks during which children will participate in lessons at the type of higher education institution they wish to continue their education at. In case a child's application is turned down, they can reapply after grade 6 and there is no test then, just their grades being evaluated. Another possibility is to finish Realschule with the respective school leaving certificate, and then attend a grammar school for three more years. (For HS, it is the RS certificate first and then continue.)

In case a child fails Hauptschule, they can get the respective certificate in their course at „Berufsschule“ (professional school), or if they got a HS certificate, do an RS certificate there which they will receive together with their successful apprenticeship.

There are also technical high schools and commercial high schools which one can join after an apprenticeship, or when having obtained an RS certificate, to get a 'Fachabitur' and then continue with technical college. The degree of a technical college allows access to all universities and all courses of studies.
Still another possibility is a so-called 'Kolleg', which is a grammar school where one can get 'Abitur' in three years; you will need an HS or RS (preferably) certificate and an apprenticeship to join these schools. There is one Kolleg in every federal state.
Another way to university is a special test at university for which you need a school certificate (HS/RS), an apprenticeship, and several years of practice in your profession. The test is a written test, plus a 'term paper'. You need to decide upon the course of studies you want to take prior to applying for this test, and the test will only give you access to this course of studies (when you successfully finished that, you will be free to do any other course of studies you might want to do).

So if kids do not well enough in these 4th grade tests, this does not mean they'll be sweeping the streets for the rest of their life. Not even in Bavaria, where a lot of sorting is being done, and where they rather expect good grades in all subjects to accept children for RS or grammar school. This usually favours children talented in languages (and they will do three languages at grammar school) and is a disadvantage for those children with mathmatical-scientifical talents. But failing the test is no terminal catastrophe, there are lots of possibilities.

Title: Re: Dhyani Ywahoo speads to Germany?
Post by: Ingeborg on April 23, 2011, 10:51:55 pm
Ingeborg
Dr. Biebel I believe may have had only a medical doctor degree and was specializing in Geburtshilfe or working in a practice of OBGYN I am not familiar with the German University system to elaborate on that subject. I do know that she was taking Krankenkasse patients until a few years ago when she retired and either you moved to Private insurance or paid cash.


Biebel would have studied quite a while ago - at that time she would have been required to do a general course in medicine first, of about 5 years, including examination. Then either one or two years of 'approbation' (sorry, I don't remember exactly), and you were allowed to work as a general practitioner.

For any specialization, it meant another course of studies on top of that - this is e.g. gynaecology, ophthalmology, psychiatry, cardiology etc. - and another exam.

From what I saw re her publications, she apparently specialized in psychological/psychiatric problems in/caused by pregnancy in her career as a psychiatrist, but this does not mean she was or is a gynaecologist or obstretrician, as both are specializations (the German term is 'Facharzt') as is psychiatry. Although it was possible to do more than one specialization, this was also a matter of money and this would also take considerable time, so there's not all that many who actually did more than one. And her's seems to be psychiatry - judging from the ads listed.

I will have a look at the German wiki article (thnx for the link) and do a translation - after a good night's rest  ;) .
Title: Re: Dhyani Ywahoo speads to Germany?
Post by: MrPiz on April 24, 2011, 03:01:19 pm
Beaverstream

Quote
I am really struggling with the term "gleichschaltung" and its explanation.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gleichschaltung

Wooha! You´re right, it was a strong term.
But this term is in no common use no more.
When I hear it it makes me considder it has something do with electricity.
The Wikilink makes me shiver. But I have to say that reading artikles and links about this whole issue does not make me belive that any kind of Nazi actvity is involved in.
I can understand your concerns but I´d say you dont have to worry about NAZI´s in this matter at all.


Quote
Biebel would have studied quite a while ago - at that time she would have been required to do a general course in medicine first, of about 5 years, including examination. Then either one or two years of 'approbation' (sorry, I don't remember exactly), and you were allowed to work as a general practitioner.

For any specialization, it meant another course of studies on top of that - this is e.g. gynaecology, ophthalmology, psychiatry, cardiology etc. - and another exam.

From what I saw re her publications, she apparently specialized in psychological/psychiatric problems in/caused by pregnancy in her career as a psychiatrist, but this does not mean she was or is a gynaecologist or obstretrician, as both are specializations (the German term is 'Facharzt') as is psychiatry. Although it was possible to do more than one specialization, this was also a matter of money and this would also take considerable time, so there's not all that many who actually did more than one. And her's seems to be psychiatry - judging from the ads listed.

Ingeborg is right, but you dont study Medicine and become a psychologist.
It is a completly different course of studies. If you want to become both you have to study both. I know this because I work in the EMS here and so I know doctors. A close friend of mine is psychologist.
As far as I understand this point I´d say she has a midwife degree. It´s like a nurse degree. You have to go to a special school for three years and do an exam. Many people do something like this to shorten the time they often have to wait for a place on a university to study. So there is a real chance she did the midwife course before she went to university and became both this way.

What concerns me the most is the abuse of the Cherokee nation to actualy fool people and make them belive in destructive phoney spiritual nonsense.

Title: Re: Dhyani Ywahoo speads to Germany?
Post by: Ingeborg on April 24, 2011, 08:25:52 pm

Piz, is anything wrong with you in particular?

Wooha! You´re right, it was a strong term.
But this term is in no common use no more.
When I hear it it makes me considder it has something do with electricity.
The Wikilink makes me shiver. But I have to say that reading artikles and links about this whole issue does not make me belive that any kind of Nazi actvity is involved in.
I can understand your concerns but I´d say you dont have to worry about NAZI´s in this matter at all.

The term was inconspicuous originally and used in connection with electricity before the Nazis gave the term a special meaning (and please don't use idiots' apostrophes).

From the context beaverstream mentioned, I take it the term was used to describe a strategy which aims at group members to give up thinking on their own and accept whatever they are told is fit or appropriate for them to think.
If the wiki article makes you shiver, you must have painstakingly avoided any info on Nazi rule in Germany so far. In this case, pls remember Dieter Nuhr's excellent piece of advice.

Quote
Ingeborg is right, but you dont study Medicine and become a psychologist.
It is a completly different course of studies. If you want to become both you have to study both. I know this because I work in the EMS here and so I know doctors. A close friend of mine is psychologist.
As far as I understand this point I´d say she has a midwife degree. It´s like a nurse degree. You have to go to a special school for three years and do an exam. Many people do something like this to shorten the time they often have to wait for a place on a university to study. So there is a real chance she did the midwife course before she went to university and became both this way.

Errrm, you did realize the doctor in question already retired a few years ago? So her course of studies took place in times when students did not have to wait to start university - you just went and enrolled for whatever course of studies appealed to you and at the university you prefered.

Second: midwifery does not come as a degree, it's not done at university.

As the doctor was/is involved in this school of Dynamic Psychiatry, chances are she is a psychiatrist, so I explained how she most probably became one according to the former universitarian system in Germany. If she studied psychology, she's not a medical doctor, but either a Dr phil or a Dr rer nat, as most universities put psychology into the science faculty, but it is with the philological fak with some.

The entries in ad platforms for her mention quite a variety of tags: psychotherapy, psycho-analysis, psycho-therapist, gynaecologist, anxiety therapy, specialist in psychotherapeutic medicine, general practioner, allergology.
And her title gets mentioned as "Dr. med.". 
It is to be doubted that she did all these specialisations like gyn, allergology, psychotherapeutic medicine and probably psychiatry, as even one of them means a course of studies of several years on top of those for general medicine. In particular psychotherapeutic med. is a rather new addition from the 1990ies and will take a five years' course.

Doing four specialisations  will mean altogether five courses of study, and we'd rather be talking about a professional career as a student here. It is not outright impossible (there are wealthy families who can finance such long years of studying), but it's improbable (and does not comply with her publications in the 1970ies).
Then - and far more important - anything labled psychotherapy/therapist is not scientific, any idiot can call themselves a therapist, no matter what their qualifications are.

The lady most probably does have good reasons to show up under such a variety of tags, and on such a lot of platforms advertising her services, and we all can easily imagine a few reasons to do this.


Title: Re: Dhyani Ywahoo speads to Germany?
Post by: Ingeborg on April 24, 2011, 08:43:19 pm

Here's a translation of part of the Wiki article:


http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deutsche_Akademie_f%FCr_Psychoanalyse#Rezeption

"Reception

There were first critical contributions regarding DAP [German Academy for Psycho-Analysis] from the mid-70ies to the end of the 70ies. „Spiegel“ and Süddeutsche Zeitung were sued by DAP. By 1982, with the end of the lawsuit against „Spiegel“, it becomes obvious that it is legal to come up with statements that e.g. at that time, there were about a dozen lawsuits and charges pressed against Günther Ammon, against other DAP members as well as against DAP itself, due to insult, libel, coercion, breach of medical confidentiality, or that a prefered „Ammon technique“ was confrontation which would result in aggressive verbal abuse.

Former employees and a long-term patient reported their experience in contributions to critical publications. In an interview with magazine „Psychology Today“ in 1989, the long-term patient admits to having been a DAP patient. Another contribution is an excerpt of DAP history from a publication written by Hansjörg Hemminger (The therapeutic realm of Dr Ammon), at that time working for Protestant Central Bureau of Weltanschauung. This publication contains a field report by a head nurse who worked at Menterschwaige Hospital from June 1980 until March 1985 and had been a DAP patient previously since 1975, as well as a field report and comments (anonymous) written by a long-term employee. In a separate chapter, Hemminger researches DAP from the angle of it being a totalitarian cult.

At the beginning of the 1990ies, psychologist and psycho-analyst Wolfgang Schmidbauer reported his experience which led to a seperation from Ammon by the end of 1973. He, too, reports about difficulties to discuss, of confrontations by Ammon felt as verbal abuse, and of 'psychologizing' of behaviour in situations in every-day life: „If a lecturer fails to see why he should work without payment while other lecturers earn well, then this is not about his paranoid tendencies or about interpreting the hole in his ego“. The rest of the group who parted with Ammon report similar thngs. A psychotherapists evaluates events within DAP, with reference to Hemminger, as an example for an extreme form of narcisstic abuse in psychotherapy (the therapist preying upon the patient to increase his self-worth). Beyond professional mainstream, DAP and Günther Ammon were also criticized within the Anti-Psychiatrist Movement.

After the death of Günther Ammon in 1995, and having received state approval as an institution of professional training in 1999, a few voices critical of DAP were still to be heard. Bayerischer Rundfunk [public Bavarian radio-station] broadcasts a feature with contributions of a former DAP member and two former patients which are commented by an independent medical specialist. One emphasis of this feature are those aspects of therapies with DAP therapists which may cause dependencies, as the persons participating in the feature have experienced. Hansjörg Hemminger, Commissioner of Weltanschauung of Protestant Church in [the federal state of] Baden-Württemberg, views the acceptance of DAP as a state approved institution of professional training as a wrong decision. He comments: „According to recent reports from insiders, DAP did not change much, it still sees itself as a symbiotic community of therapists and their patients in which they live and work. The ever-lasting therapy thus remains the way of life of its supporters. This also perpetuates continuous violations of the rules of therapeutic practice (abstinence, clear definitions of roles, confidentiality etc.)“. DAP sues for a cease-and-desist rule against the last paragraph of the publication quoted and is turned down in all aspects by an appellate court on Decembe 3, 2007. Since some years, DAP is characterized as a „psycho-cult“ by various ecclesiastic Commissioners of Weltanschauung."

Title: Re: Diane Fisher AKA Dhyani Ywahoo, Black Indian Inn
Post by: beaverstream on April 25, 2011, 06:56:13 pm
Mr. Piz
regarding "gleichschaltung"
I merely used the term as a place to start searching for the psychotherapy techniques used because I wanted to know more about the supposed alternative forms of Psychotherapy the disgruntled OBGYN colleague mentioned. I never said this was a Nazi issue. It simply fits in line with group manipulation.

Quote
It is apparently a technique taught by some alternative therapeutic trainings that popped up around here as a means of group therapy. I do not know much about this and cannot confirm it. It was relayed to me by another OBGYN who had definite misgivings about the theraputic practices in this group and believes this is part of it.

Read more: http://www.newagefraud.org/smf/index.php?action=post;topic=75.0;num_replies=37#ixzz1KYuW3SHr

I think the connection to the DAP is really important Ingeborg.
I'll see if there is anything more available regarding the Sundayschool.
Title: Re: Dhyani Ywahoo speads to Germany?
Post by: educatedindian on April 27, 2011, 08:02:43 pm
I checked out the link MrPiz provided (the english language version page)

There's all kinds of issues with this group.  I'll bring up a few of the most obvious which I saw outlined in the acknowledgements (in bold)

http://www.diesonntagsschule.de/people_us.html

Acknowledgements:

 We wish to express our gratitude to the following people and organisations....
 
 Dwight ?, Lakota: Dwight was a simple man - the epitome of radiating wisdom. He taught and lead by the example of his own life.

 Grandfather Eagle Dedam, Micmac: Meeting him was a turning point in the lives of many..
 
Jim Yellowhorse, Lakota: A wise elder, who showed patience for the right moment, deep compassion and ever present wisdom.

 

Until we get "Dwight's" last name, hard to pin anything down.

Most of the sites out there describe Jim Yellowhorse or Yellow Horse Man as an alleged Cherokee elder that's part of the Steve McCullough sundance bunch.
Sells crystal healing he advertises online.
http://www.yellowhorseman.com/services.htm

He's a "minister" by way of one of those online certification programs anyone can get for 95 bucks. http://www.universalbrotherhood.org/data.html
https://ssl.perfora.net/universalbrotherhoodshop.org/sess/utn;jsessionid=154db8742a924e1/shopdata/index.shopscript

Dedam is a very common Micmaq name but so far I haven't found anything to pin down which person they are claiming to have "taught" them.
Title: Re: Diane Fisher AKA Dhyani Ywahoo, Black Indian Inn
Post by: Epiphany on May 12, 2013, 02:51:49 am
In the mid 90s California she sometimes was Dhyani Y Dorje.
In some late 80s & early 90s media and for a copyright she is Venerable Ugowiyuhi Dhyani Ywahoo.
Some public records list her in abbreviated form as Ven Dhyani Ywahoo.

On her 1982 marriage certificate to Golden T. True she is Dhyani F. Ywahoo. Birthdate 27 Nov 1945, born New York.
Parents William Cornell Ywahoo, born South Carolina, and Joyce Browne, born New York. So if Dhyani's birth name is Diane Fisher, looks like her father was William Cornell Fisher.

Her son was born 1983 - Tatanka David True. There are several versions of Dhyani's name on the amended birth certificate: Dhyani True, Dhyani Fisher, Dhyani Fisher Ywahoo.

Golden and Dhyani divorced in 1990.

Deacon Eddie Ensley, author of Visions: The Soul's Path to the Sacred, says he is Dhyani's "full blood cousin".

Quote
Venerable Dhyani Ywahoo’s cousin Eddie Ensley received sacred Cherokee spiritual traditions from his grandfather, North Carolina Cherokee, Irvin Ensley, when he was little. ... Eddie is a Roman Catholic clergyman (permanent deacon) with a Master’s degree in Religious studies from Loyola University and is a NCCA licensed clinical pastoral counselor.
Title: Re: Diane Fisher AKA Dhyani Ywahoo, Black Indian Inn
Post by: Epiphany on July 29, 2015, 09:39:32 pm
In 1980 she was Dhyani Thorner.

(http://i62.tinypic.com/2uha0b8.jpg]http://i62.tinypic.com/2uha0b8.jpg)

http://dailyiowan.lib.uiowa.edu/DI/1980/di1980-02-14.pdf (http://dailyiowan.lib.uiowa.edu/DI/1980/di1980-02-14.pdf) In the article she says she travels in a beam of light.

I was tipped off to this by looking over another pretendian:

Quote
Among such teachers,  I am grateful to Dhyani Thorner (Yahoo), who generously taught shamanism to me, and several others in the late seventies.

https://michaelwatsonvt.wordpress.com/2012/09/21/shamanism-and-appropriation/ (https://michaelwatsonvt.wordpress.com/2012/09/21/shamanism-and-appropriation/)
Title: Re: Diane Fisher AKA Dhyani Ywahoo, Black Indian Inn
Post by: Epiphany on July 29, 2015, 10:01:57 pm
Correction on her son's name mentioned previously in thread, his name is Daniel True, not David. On birth certificate Dhyani amended his name to Daniel True (originally was Tatanka True), and her own surname from Fisher to Ywahoo. I don't know if he is involved in her group.
Title: Re: Diane Fisher AKA Dhyani Ywahoo AKA Dhyani Dorje AKA Dhyani Thorner
Post by: educatedindian on July 30, 2015, 02:29:20 am
In the Daily Iowan article she also claims to be clairvoyant. The doomsday cult and survivalist ideas are already part of her preachings.

In 1980 she also was recorded on a radio show under the Thorner name.
http://lexhixon.com/simplesite/radiolist.html

The list of aliases she's used includes Trua Ywahoo.
http://www.ussearch.com/people-search-name/dhyani-ywahoo-vt-bristol
Lived in Bristol VT, Beaverdale, PA, Arlington, VA, Gleason, WI, Elton, WI, and Beverly Hills. Beautyway Productions and Innerself.com are also businesses of hers.
Title: Re: Diane Fisher AKA Dhyani Ywahoo AKA Dhyani Dorje AKA Dhyani Thorner
Post by: Epiphany on July 30, 2015, 04:03:37 pm
http://www.newagefraud.org/smf/index.php?topic=353.msg1518#msg1518 (http://www.newagefraud.org/smf/index.php?topic=353.msg1518#msg1518)

Quote
"She is worse than a fake or a nuage ripoff.
She is a crazy woman who had her son consecrated as a god. Her ex-husband (named Golden, I kid you not) is a liar and thief well known in the area. He is her ex-husband only because he would not bow down to her and the boy, and I mean that literally. She requires people to kowtow.
We lived in Vermont, very near her temple. You just would not believe all the hurt people who would show up at our store to ask for our help after she had stripped them of their money and then turned them out.
She preys on those of weak spirit, demanding complete obedience and total dedication from her followers.
Even Twyla Neitsche was not that bad.
While we were never able to close her down because she owns the property, we were able to stop her from teaching kids in Vermont and holding gatherings in public places.
Now it sounds like she is running amok again.
I personally despise this woman. She is a feeding shark and I hope that all of the torments she has laid on others will find their way back to her doorstep."

Quote
cherokee_in_belgium Posted - 10/20/2004 : 06:47:56 AM
"This hasn't been mentioned on the site above but I was contacted by a group of Ms. Dhyani's former followers who were very put out with the way she treats people. According to them she forces people at her institute to sign agreements saying they won't disclose anything that happens there to an outside party, people have to sign over the financial assets etc.
From former followers of hers it sounds like shes running a cult. Of course - they could just be disgruntled but it may be something to keep in mind.
The people still convinced shes right are pretty rabid and will attack anyone who so much as hints that their guru may be a bit of a nut. They claim its because Dhyani has given out "secret knowledge" to non-indians. Personally I'm more offended by the fact that she mostly makes stuff up for sale, tries to mix things with other religions, has made up her own tribe, and trains other frauds."
Title: Re: Diane Fisher AKA Dhyani Ywahoo AKA Dhyani Dorje AKA Dhyani Thorner
Post by: educatedindian on September 07, 2016, 01:02:56 pm
An account of the cult gathering.

--------
http://indiancountrytodaymedianetwork.com/comment/2155105
...I even spent a summer at the Peace Village of Dyhani Ywahoo and came away wanting when I discovered their homophobia towards so-called two spirits. I also found it curious that for an avowed Cherokee Chief she has only amassed a small loyal tribe of white people mostly in Boston, Northern California & Germany. Having said all that, what I really wanted was to learn the ways of our Turtle Island ancestors and how they achieved harmony with the Earth Mother by seeking a spiritual path towards that union....
Title: Re: Diane Fisher AKA Dhyani Ywahoo AKA Dhyani Dorje AKA Dhyani Thorner
Post by: Piff on September 07, 2016, 04:43:59 pm
Diane Fisher's parents are William Cornell Fisher and Joyce Browne.

Parent's names are on her marriage certificate https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:KFPK-66Z

Also in her own bio http://www.sunray.org/venerable-dhyani-ywahoo.html

I believe Joyce Browne is Joyce Challenor Browne. More research needs to be done to confirm this.

Joyce Challenor Browne was born in NY. Both of her parents (Diane's maternal grandparents) are from Barbados.

Joyce Browne 1930 census with her parents https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X4V9-F3M

William Cornell Fisher was born in South Carolina. He and his family eventually moved to NY.

1940 census William and family https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:KQLP-JBH

Diane says her paternal grandparents were Eona Fisher and Nellie Valentine. They were actually Luther Fisher and Nellie Valentine.

Diane's claims of Cherokee all concern her father's side of the family. She says she and her ancestors were never enrolled.

Diane's paternal heritage can be summarized as black families from South Carolina.


Title: Re: Diane Fisher AKA Dhyani Ywahoo AKA Dhyani Dorje AKA Dhyani Thorner
Post by: Piff on September 07, 2016, 05:58:16 pm
Diane Fisher says that her paternal grandmother Nellie Valentine was Cherokee and Catawba. And that Nellie was one of the family members who passed on "Cherokee teachings" to her.

http://www.sunray.org/venerable-dhyani-ywahoo.html

Here is Nellie Valentine and her parents in the 1910 census

 https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:M562-HQ7
Title: Re: Diane Fisher AKA Dhyani Ywahoo AKA Dhyani Dorje AKA Dhyani Thorner
Post by: Defend the Sacred on September 08, 2016, 12:01:20 am
An account of the cult gathering.

--------
http://indiancountrytodaymedianetwork.com/comment/2155105
I discovered their homophobia towards so-called two spirits. I also found it curious that for an avowed Cherokee Chief she has only amassed a small loyal tribe of white people mostly in Boston, Northern California & Germany.

Interesting. She's made A LOT of money off white lesbians of the neopagan/nuage/pretendian sort, and more recently white gay men and trans people who are spiritual seekers, including some urban NDNs who self-identify as two-spirit.

Through the "Black Indian Inn" in Dorchester, MA, she's now making a lot of money off African-Americans, as well. Recently a gay theatre group held a workshop there. It was pretty shocking, as in the past they've been way more aware politically. But lots of LGBT groups (and not just the white ones) can be completely ignorant when it comes to Indigenous issues. In New England, if someone says they're NDN, the non-Natives are usually scared to question them, and they are usually so misinformed that they mistakenly assume everyone with even a bit of NDN blood has the right to lead, teach, and sell ceremony. It's a big mess.
Title: Re: Diane Fisher AKA Dhyani Ywahoo AKA Dhyani Dorje AKA Dhyani Thorner
Post by: Piff on December 19, 2016, 10:16:11 pm
Interesting past posts from a long time cult member, Jennifer Vyhnak:


Quote
Another favorite teaching is that we can determine whether teachings are good for us if they 'grow corn' in our lives.  By this it is meant, do you find that the teachings benefit you as an individual, benefit your family, your community, your nation, and your world?  If this is the case then you know the teachings are good.
 
This is an effective way to tell the difference between good teachings and teachings of a harmful 'cult'.  In a cult, the teachings are often secretive, with no benefit for one's family, community, nation, or world.  This is a most important distinction.
 
The Peacekeeper Mission teachings grew much corn in my life and continue to do so.  They were the greatest gift I ever gave myself. 

Quote
People with a limited understanding might say that I and others are simply trying to 'play' Indian, or that we are trying to steal once again from our Native American brothers and sisters. Let me say this is absolutely not the case.  Wise Native American Elders gave permission for these specific teachings to be shared with people of all colors and nationalities, with the intention of helping people come back into right relationship with the Earth and all life upon her.   For those of us who recognize how far we as a people have veered off the path of sustainable, life affirming ways of living, these teachings have been a God send, offering us a way that people of all nations can work together for the greater good. 

http://archive.constantcontact.com/fs024/1102402691826/archive/1102486584933.html

Jennifer Vyhnak as of 5/2016 is the registered agent for the Sunray Peace Village Land Trust (domestic nonprofit corporation). Also the Sunray Meditation Society (domestic nonprofit corporation).
Title: Re: Diane Fisher AKA Dhyani Ywahoo AKA Dhyani Dorje AKA Dhyani Thorner
Post by: Piff on December 20, 2016, 03:24:16 pm
I've uploaded here a basic sketch of research so far on her genealogy. I've used her own statements along with records on Family Search, Ancestry, Find a Grave.

Her mother's parents both came from Barbados. British subjects, African descent.

Her father and his family are all recorded as black, from South Carolina.

I know that because her family is recorded as black does not mean there may not be distant Cherokee heritage (though I see no signs). But her b.s. has nothing to do with actual Cherokee teachings. She lies and is running a destructive group.

Title: Re: Diane Fisher AKA Dhyani Ywahoo AKA Dhyani Dorje AKA Dhyani Thorner
Post by: Piff on December 20, 2016, 03:39:27 pm
Quote
Ven. Dhyani Ywahoo was born to William and Joyce Fisher in 1945.

Her father, William Fisher, grew up within a community referred to as the "lower Cherokee towns" in South Carolina composed of the remnant of Muscogee, Yucci, Catawba and survivors of other Southeastern tribes who hid in plain sight.  They were sometimes called "free people of color" or "Black Dutch".

Her father's parents, Eona Fisher (Creek mother and Cherokee father) and Nellie Valentine (Cherokee and Catawba) raised her and taught her a method for viewing the world and the relationship with all beings, based on Cherokee teachings.
 

http://www.sunray.org/venerable-dhyani-ywahoo.html


Her marriage certificate lists her parents as William Cornell Fisher and Joyce Browne. https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QS7-L97W-WJBZ?mode=g&i=1092&cc=2075288

I've uploaded here a photo of her father William Cornell Fisher, son of Luther Fisher and Nellie Valentine, husband of Joyce Challenor Browne. I see a strong resemblance.

William Cornell Fisher was listed black in census, military, and social security.

Quote
Name    William Cornell Fisher
Father    Luther Fisher
Mother    Nellie Valentine
Birth    6 Nov 1921 - Greenville G, South Carolina
Death    Apr 1990
Gender    Male
Race    Black

(source ancestry.com US Social Security Applications and Claims Index)


Title: Re: Diane Fisher AKA Dhyani Ywahoo AKA Dhyani Dorje AKA Dhyani Thorner
Post by: Piff on December 20, 2016, 03:56:56 pm
The photo of William Cornell Fisher is from a public family tree on ancestry.com.

As always, I could have gone astray somewhere in this research. And records don't always match reality. I encourage others to look over records. Please don't accept her family claims as truth automatically. She writes of her family history in a purposefully confusing, mangled fashion. Please don't buy what she is selling.

In her book Learning Cherokee Ways, The Ywahoo Path, she claims that her father never crawled. He hopped. She uses this as another supposed example of how special she is. My guess is that she herself has had knee problems, and she decided to claim that her entire family has special knees, the kind that cause babies to hop.

Title: Re: Diane Fisher AKA Dhyani Ywahoo AKA Dhyani Dorje AKA Dhyani Thorner
Post by: Piff on December 20, 2016, 05:29:14 pm
https://www.ic.gc.ca/app/scr/cc/CorporationsCanada/fdrlCrpDtls.html?corpId=4454766&V_TOKEN=1482193739755&crpNm=sunray&crpNmbr=&bsNmbr=

She has a Canadian corporation in Ontario.

Corporation Number
445476-6
Business Number (BN)
829439215RC0001
Corporate Name
SUNRAY MEDITATION SOCIETY OF CANADA
Status
Active
Governing Legislation
Canada Not-for-profit Corporations Act - 2014-10-02
Registered Office Address
146 RIDGE ROAD WEST
GRIMSBY ON L3M 4E7
Canada

Directors


    CATHERINE DYER
    169 PAPE AVE
    TORONTO ON M5M 2W1
    Canada

BEVERLY JOYCE HUNTER
    1418 IRISH LINE ROAD
    HALIBURTON ON K0M 1S0
    Canada

 DHYANI FISHER YWAHOO
188 PURINTON ROAD
LINCOLN VT 05443
United States

GAYLE YOUNG
146 RIDGE ROAD WEST
GRIMSBY ON L3M 4E7
Canada


Status of Annual Filings

    2016 - Filed
    2015 - Filed

Title: Re: Diane Fisher AKA Dhyani Ywahoo AKA Dhyani Dorje AKA Dhyani Thorner
Post by: Piff on December 20, 2016, 05:37:31 pm
Uploaded here a clip from 1982, Western Washington University (Bellingham, WA) student newspaper, about a Dhyani Fisher Ywahoo event. She is described as a "counselor for indigenous people of the world at the United Nations".
Title: Re: Diane Fisher AKA Dhyani Ywahoo AKA Dhyani Dorje AKA Dhyani Thorner
Post by: Piff on December 20, 2016, 05:56:19 pm
This clip is from her son's birth certificate. Interesting because on this one form she is Dhyani True, Dhyani Fisher, Dhyani Fisher-Ywahoo. Married surname True. Initially her maiden name listed Fisher, then crossed out and amended to Fisher - Ywahoo.

A note on her former husband, Golden True. He is an artist and still uses the name Golden True. His parents are Daniel P Thorton and Alice Warren. I assume he legally changed his name.

I don't know why Dhyani used the name "Dhyani Thorner" for awhile. Don't know if that was entirely another married surname, if she used a variation of her husband's birth surname Thorton, or what all.