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General => Frauds => Topic started by: coffee_drinker on June 12, 2007, 12:26:34 am

Title: kunsikeya.org / Beverly Little Thunder & "Wimmin's Sun Dance"
Post by: coffee_drinker on June 12, 2007, 12:26:34 am: Still new to the cut and paste thing
Maybe this should be under etc.

Without Reservations: Native American Lesbians Struggle to Find Their Way
Written by: Diane Anderson-Minshall

Beverly Little Thunder has been issued a death sentence. Not by the government; by one of her own. Leonard Crow Dog, a Native American* activist, has sworn to kill the 55-year-old Lakota nurse for performing the Sun Dance, one of the most important — and grueling — ceremonies for Plains Indian tribes. Participants dance for four days, eight hours a day, without food or water, as a ritual of sacrifice, renewal and strengthening.

The U.S. government outlawed the dance in 1904 as a way to squelch Indian gatherings, but Little Thunder has danced the Sun Dance since she was 19 years old. Years ago, at South Dakota’s Standing Rock Reservation, she got a rude awakening: “I was told that women like me were taken out and shot. I was not permitted to participate in the ceremonies.???

Elderly women pulled Little Thunder aside and suggested she create a ceremony for her “own kind,??? saying that if the Lakota people remembered their traditions they’d be honored to have her dance.

“I felt like they were telling me [to] go somewhere else and have the ceremony so it’s not around here,??? Little Thunder admits. “I prayed about it ... and decided that they were right.??? The lesbian Sun Dance was born in St. John, Ariz., with 13 Native Americans and 87 other women participating. It was later moved to women’s land in Vermont.

This kind of activism is typical of Little Thunder, who, in 1993, helped coin the term “two-spirit??? (to signify queer Native Americans) and in 2001 became the first Native American to serve as grand marshal of a Gay Pride parade. Still, it has not been easy for Little Thunder to claim her place in lesbian history.

She grew up straddling two worlds. Summers were spent with her grandmother at North Dakota’s Standing Rock Reservation, while winters found her back in a Los Angeles housing project with her alcoholic, abusive parents. Little Thunder later bounced from Indian boarding schools to juvenile hall, to two convents, and to an orphanage, and finally, at 15, was married. She would eventually raise five children before coming out as a lesbian.

What a difference those years have made. Little Thunder says her youngest daughter is an out lesbian who “doesn’t have any qualms about people knowing she’s a lesbian. When I was 25, I didn’t even know what the word was.???

FORGOTTEN HISTORY

Native lesbians existed long before the first European settlers stepped onto this continent. Some tribes had special roles for women who hunted, married women and took part in warfare. Queer Indians appeared in origin stories — our biblical stories, so to speak — until Christian missionaries gained influence and many tribes became dependent on them for money, food and survival. Missionaries did not understand, or approve of, gender diversity. They called us “berdache,??? a demeaning Persian word for boy prostitutes. Within a generation or two, queers became the jokes of our people, and in many tribes, women became equally disenfranchised.

Still, not all were disregarded. Years ago, when I had just begun to research my own bloodline, I read about Kauxuma Nupika, a Kootenai Indian woman who in 1811 carried a message to fur traders 400 miles from the Spokane River. She was dressed as a man and was accompanied by a woman she called her wife. Though whites were concerned about her masculine appearance, she worked as a guide, courier, warrior and peacemaker for the next 25 years.

In researching Nupika’s legacy, my legacy, the legacy of Native American two-spirits, I found that tribal elders and reservation leaders weren’t interested in talking about their queer citizens. While working on this story, I contacted more than 100 tribal council members, museum curators and PR reps from reservations in Colorado, Connecticut, New Mexico, Oklahoma, Louisiana, Idaho and California, and none were willing to comment. Even gay organizations in areas with high concentrations of Native Americans had nothing to say about Native American lesbian life.

Native American lesbians, though, were eager to share their stories.

TWO-SPIRIT WOMEN

Yolanda Slivers was only 21 when her family gathered for the Beauty Way Ceremony. The ritual, a tradition among Slivers’ Dine’ (Navajo) people, was to balance all things in her life — family, school, work, health —and put her on the right path. She admits now that she was wary.

“My mother told me when I was a child that one of the main reasons why Natives have begun to turn away from the traditional ceremonial ways was because as a ceremony participant you had to be willing to be completely honest with yourself,??? Slivers recalls. “She said ... the roadman would be able to see ... everything you are and what you stand for. I was afraid to find out what my grandfather, the roadman, would say. I was afraid that he would tell others what he saw. But that year ... I was tired of pretending and hiding who I really was.???

Midway through the ceremony, Slivers’ grandfather received a vision of a chubby white girl — Slivers’ partner — who he said was taking her away from the path of the Navajo. Her mother gasped and began to cry.

“I was so confused, I couldn’t see. It was then that my grandfather ... said, ‘Yolanda, I wish I knew more English words, so that I might tell you what it means to live as a Navajo woman and how to walk the path of the Navajo woman,’??? Slivers recalls. “I was livid. ... I didn’t know what to say, so I said nothing.???

When Slivers returned home to California she withdrew from her partner, cut herself off from her family, stopped attending ceremonies and stopped talking about God. Six months later, she realized that it wasn’t plausible to be happy and living “in a world that did not allow me to love who I loved. If balance [is] the Navajo way of life, then how could living without love be balanced???? she asks.

I understand Yolanda Slivers. We’re both Native American lesbians, or two-spirits, struggling with homophobia, racism and invisibility.

Slivers, a 24-year-old marketing assistant in San Diego, grew up on the Navajo Reservation in Arizona. Though the Navajo nation is one of the largest (with more than 300,000 tribal members), much of the reservation is akin to a third-world country. “No running water, no electricity, no jobs and no housing,??? says Slivers, who has not lived on the reservation since she was in fourth grade. “We moved because of economics, survival,??? she recalls. “Too many Indians; not enough food, money or shelter.???

Slivers has blood of the original four Navajo clans running through her veins. I, on the other hand, am a mixed-race Cherokee-Choctaw. Raised in rural Idaho by my beloved grandmother — who was related by adoption, not blood — I did not know much of my cultural heritage until I was the age Slivers is now.

Teddy Roosevelt said in 1886: “I don’t go so far as to think that the only good Indians are dead Indians, but I believe nine out of 10 are. The most vicious cowboy has more moral principle than the average Indian.???

Roosevelt made these comments the same year my great-great-great-grandmother was born to a Choctaw woman named Dollie Dollarhide. Unfortunately, back then Roosevelt represented the views of the average European colonizer. In the early 1800s, the Indian Removal Act forced thousands of Indians to give up their land and move West — some at gunpoint, some loaded like cargo into wagons. Many walked the entire thousand-mile march, which became known as the Trail of Tears, barefoot.

In California, where I now live, Indian populations plummeted as zealous miners swarmed into the state. Today the state contains mostly isolated rancherías, testimony to the fact that most of these Indians were not relocated so much as exterminated. Some Indians managed to escape into the swamps or mountains. Some changed their identity, claiming to be Black Dutch, Black Irish, Spanish, Creole, Italian. In the Midwest, English Quakers and German Amish adopted some. Others were classified as black, Negro or mulatto because some states

didn’t have a designation for Indians. Affluent Cherokee women, like my ancestors, were encouraged to marry white men.

WHO’S THE ‘REAL’ INDIAN?

Donna Luckett’s great-great-grandmother escaped into the Smokey Mountains while the Cherokees were being relocated to Oklahoma. “[She] lived in fear most of the time and became very cautious about what she said about her life,??? Luckett recalls. “The family tried to blend into the communities, and marriage into the white community provided some safety for her children.???

Living today in Portland, Ore., Luckett is a mixed-race Cherokee lesbian who works as a vocational counselor to Native Americans. Raised in a predominantly white family, Luckett admits that she’s had access to education — she has two master’s degrees — that most of her Native clients don’t.

Census reports show that the number of people identifying as Native American is now 4.1 million (or 1.5 percent of the U.S. population) — which underscores just how complex and diverse Native Americans are today. For centuries, those who looked white dissociated from Indian culture; now Native celebrities straddle multiple worlds. Native director Chris Eyre was adopted by a white family; black actress Della Reese’s mom was Cherokee; blue-eyed, blonde actress Heather Locklear came out as Lumbee Indian years ago and has since received the First Americans in the Arts Award (the Native version of the Oscars).

When 24-year-old Elle McKay, a mixed-race Cherokee photographer in Oregon, fills out legal forms, she checks “Caucasian.??? The Celtic influence dominates her pale complexion, curly brown hair and light green eyes. She admits to feeling jealous of her younger brother’s darker skin, thick straight hair and wide brown eyes.

“People look at me as though I’m lying when I tell them I’m part Native American,??? she sighs. “I’m proud of my heritage, yet feel impossibly barred from ever fully experiencing it due to my whiteness. My brother could choose to live on a reservation and few people would think twice about why he was there ... [but] I would be the source of much confusion.???

“Indians are largely erased in the larger American context, even in colored communities,??? says writer-photographer Reid Gomez. The 31-year-old lesbian traces her black-Indian ancestry to the Congo, Zacatecas, Mexico and the Navajo nation. “The entire myth of America — and the immigrant and African American stories that are a part of it — largely rest on the idea that Indians no longer exist in this present moment. The general knowledge of our existence and contemporary situations is largely erased, ignored, rendered invisible.???

STAKING A CLAIM

Suzanne Bates unwittingly forfeited her rights to the Native world when a white family adopted her 30 years ago. She’s now trying to connect with her indigenous Metis heritage, but it hasn’t been easy. “I called once for registration and they told me to take a hike,??? she recalls. “I really struggle with my identity and place in Indian Country,??? she says. “I often feel culturally stunted when dealing in traditional situations. That feeling of displacement and exclusion is enormous and far outweighs the success I have in mainstream society.???

Bates, who was afraid of other Natives as a child, began to realize that she could fully become herself only when she confronted who she was and where she came from. “It really became apparent that I had better get going on this journey, because the world was not going to let me forget that I have brown skin and am therefore distinct.??? She has been searching for her biological family for 12 years. But she’s quick to say that what she calls her “cultural repatriation process??? isn’t about proving that she’s Indian. Now she’s an activist of sorts — helping young people like herself as a First Nations Advisor with Camosun College in British Columbia.

In fact, many Native American lesbians consider themselves activists, albeit sometimes in a spiritual, rather than political, sense. For some, their demonstration is simply coming out — as Native, that is — to protest the degradation of Native American culture and show the world we aren’t relics of the past. For others, the revolution is as Indian as it gets. Little Thunder practices medicine at Indian facilities around the country; Luckett counsels disenfranchised Natives. All speak unabashedly about their queerness with sometimes less than receptive straights.

For Chrystos — Native America’s most well-known lesbian poet — her activism is part literature, part in-your-face. A 56-year-old, city-bred Menominee, Chrystos — like Gomez — gains strength from other urban queer artists of color. For Chrystos, too, this means recognizing the similarities between being queer and being of-color.

“The main similarity between being queer and Native for me,??? admits Chrystos, “is the amount of hatred ... we have to endure. Some ... is genocidal but all of it is detrimental to our mental and physical health, not to mention spiritual health. For both groups, this hatred is a result of colonization and Christianity — organized religions intend to alter us to suit themselves, with no understanding that if we exist we are meant to be here exactly as we are.???

Chrystos, whose love-and-lust poems underscore her outspoken lesbianism, works alongside straight Natives to free imprisoned Indian activists like Leonard Peltier and Norma Jean Croy. (She does so while sometimes struggling with the same economic plight her less famous Native peers experience. For the last two months, she’s been trying to get running water restored to her home.)

S. Wolfe thinks queer Native coalition building is key to finding legitimization in the larger gay community. Wolfe, a 46-year-old mixed-race Apache lesbian, is on the board of Bay Area American Indian Two-Spirits, and has had to deal with criticism about the male-dominated group — criticism she shrugs off.

“Do gay groups skew male? Yes. There are more of them and they get more funding for our group,??? she admits. It doesn’t, she says, affect the politics of BAAITS — one of a handful of queer Native groups in the country. For her, the group helps her find solidarity, strength in being a butch Indian dyke — validation that didn’t come from her family. “Our parents ... told us to keep our brownness quiet.???

The city-bred Wolfe now wants to help other Indians and raise lesbian visibility on the reservation — by going back to teach.

“When I visit the rez, I am an outsider ... so I get treated with some suspicion. Although there is a tradition of acceptance of gays by tribes, it is now an embarrassment or something best left unsaid. So I defer to their desire to have me be quiet about being a dyke, but it is obvious I am and I will answer anyone who asks me about it.???

Of course, film and television, say some of these women, bring queer Native issues to the forefront quicker than years of protests. Last summer, Sherman Alexie’s film The Business of Fancydancing — about an assimilated gay man’s return to his reservation — gave some dykes a mirror they sorely needed, and it made straight Indians finally talk about our issues.

“I pay attention to the stories of the least powerful group in the country: gay Native women,??? says Alexie. “We all feel lonely and isolated. Perhaps my work helps lesbian Native women feel less alone in the world.???

Feeling less alone in the world is, in fact, a common goal. Though we haven’t found clear-cut solutions to broad problems like racism and homophobia, we two-spirit women are banking on our outsider status — among gays, among Indians — to forge a new place at the table. Sometimes that means a lot of fighting, says Little Thunder, but they can always rely on each other. Indigenous queers in the United States and Canada have developed an intensely loyal bond — something that’s apparent at the annual conventions. “That’s the only time we can come together and sit and talk and joke and laugh,??? says Little Thunder. “There’s a sense of humor in the Native American community that I don’t find anywhere else. There’s a sense of safety there.???

*I use “Native American??? and “American Indian,??? and “Native??? and “Indian,??? interchangeably, though many activists believe that only one or the other is accurate.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This story was produced under the George Washington Williams Fellowship for Journalists of Color, a project sponsored by the Independent Press Association.

Not sure what kind of magazine this is. Curious on any comments on this article.
Title: Re: Without Reservations: Native American Lesbians Struggle To Find Their Way
Post by: Barnaby_McEwan on June 12, 2007, 01:51:11 pm: Hello coffee_drinker

I've moved this post here but that doesn't mean I have any opinion on this piece; I also removed some of the title-bar text from the original page so just the article and your comments are left.

Here's the link to the original piece:

http://www.curvemag.com/Detailed/309.html

Looks like a glossy lifestyle & current-affairs magazine for lesbians.
Title: Re: Without Reservations: Native American Lesbians Struggle To Find Their Way
Post by: coffee_drinker on June 12, 2007, 06:18:57 pm: Thanks Barnaby,

still learning how to do the cut, copy, paste thing, after posting it under research I realized I should have done it under ECT. A friend sent this article to me, I thought perhaps some might find it interesting
Title: Re: Without Reservations: Native American Lesbians Struggle To Find Their Way
Post by: educatedindian on June 12, 2007, 09:07:56 pm: I think Mike Two Horses, before his passing, was trying to get a retraction of that article. The claim about death threats he was pretty certain was just a copywriter trying to hard to sell a stroy.
Title: Re: Without Reservations: Native American Lesbians Struggle To Find Their Way
Post by: coffee_drinker on June 13, 2007, 02:03:31 am: When I read the piece, I was somewhat taken back on some of the statements that were printed of the non acceptance. Some of the reservations I've been to, I have met gay and lesbian Indians and I did not see any hostile or negative behavior by straight Indians toward them.
I guess my question would be, are those that gave the interview the exception or is there some common hostility because of their sexual preference?
Title: Re: Without Reservations: Native American Lesbians Struggle To Find Their Way
Post by: debbieredbear on June 13, 2007, 05:03:33 pm: coffee-drinker, I can't say for sure, just give you my reaction the first time I read it. I felt like there was a hidden agenda in all of this. I have heard this woman criticized for having what one person called a "Lesbian Sundance" and for doing things that were not traditional. Did she get death threats? I don't klnow. I think she had heavy criticism and may have interpreted that as "death threats." I find it strange that she makes claims that a) she wasn't allowed to dance when I know that women do dance at sundance and b) that "elder women" told her to do her own thing in essence. I wish I could hear "the rest of the story" and then I would have a clearer picture.
Title: Re: Without Reservations: Native American Lesbians Struggle To Find Their Way
Post by: Skully on July 05, 2007, 06:54:34 am: Nothing new about a bunch of carpet-munchers playing NDN.
Title: Re: Without Reservations: Native American Lesbians Struggle To Find Their Way
Post by: Defend the Sacred on August 21, 2007, 04:51:37 pm: Quote from: Big Paulie on July 05, 2007, 06:54:34 am
Nothing new about a bunch of carpet-munchers playing NDN.

While there are inaccuracies in the article (One of my housemates has been to sun dances at Pine Ridge where lesbians and other women danced), and possible exaggerations or even fabrications, I don't think sexual insults are a particularly appropriate response, Paulie.

I do agree that, in general, the women's spirituality scene has been appalling when it comes to cultural appropriation. Most of the people who attend Newage events and fill the shameons pockets are middle-class, middle-age, white women. However, there is also a small but fierce number of feminists, of varying orientations but often lesbians, who I've seen stand up for First Nations rights, and work hard to educate other women in these matters. It doesn't help any of us for you to insult all lesbians this way.
Title: Re: Without Reservations: Native American Lesbians Struggle To Find Their Way
Post by: Barnaby_McEwan on August 21, 2007, 09:45:57 pm: Quote
...there is also a small but fierce number of feminists, of varying orientations but often lesbians, who I've seen stand up for First Nations rights, and work hard to educate other women in these matters.

For example Hawk Silverstein, the president of the Tucson branch of Do No Harm (http://donoharm.bravepages.com), which has recently supported us by protesting the recent attempt to shut us down. If I had seen that post when you made it, Paulie, I would have deleted it immediately. I'm surprised that I have to spell this out but

we do not tolerate derogatory remarks about gay people on this forum.

I'm sure your blood would boil if someone made a remark about "a bunch of redskins".
Title: Re: Without Reservations: Native American Lesbians Struggle To Find Their Way
Post by: debbieredbear on August 21, 2007, 11:09:51 pm: Quote
the women's spirituality scene has been appalling when it comes to cultural appropriation. Most of the people who attend Newage events and fill the shameons pockets are middle-class, middle-age, white women.

This is why I quit subscribing to MS magazine. The last straw was when they had to pages of letters to the editor whining about how no one could tell THEM what to believe. They totally missed that they were as guilty of opressing Indian women as they said men were guilty of opressong them. The magazine really had littel for poor women, let alone poor Indian Indian women.
Title: Re: Without Reservations: Native American Lesbians Struggle To Find Their Way
Post by: frederica on August 21, 2007, 11:43:33 pm: Only seen that magazine a few times and it definately class orientated, with no empathy for Indian or Hispanic women. Since I didn't follow it much always wondered if I missed something. I guess not. frederica
Title: Re: Without Reservations: Native American Lesbians Struggle To Find Their Way
Post by: Defend the Sacred on August 22, 2007, 12:06:02 am: Ms. is very mainstream. Their politics are liberal, not radical.

I think in general white Americans are incredibly dense when it comes to most of these issues. I used to believe that being a minority in some way (lesbian, etc) would make people more sensitive to interlinked forms of oppression. I'm not so confident about that anymore.

When I was first attending lesbian and feminist events in the late seventies and eighties, it was a given that we had to fight racism, classism, etc. Now, it seems like most just want to assimilate. I feel like a dinosaur sometimes.

I've also seen former radicals sell out and go mainstream, and people I thought had good politics turn out to have a hidden agenda and not be trustworthy or honorable at all. Live and learn....
Title: Re: Without Reservations: Native American Lesbians Struggle To Find Their Way
Post by: earthw7 on August 22, 2007, 02:37:37 am: I printed out the articles and showed it to our tribal people here.
Everyone was pretty shocked.
Beverly Little Thunder is an enolled member here on Standing Rock.
We can find no one who know of this event happened that she talkls about.

The Standing Rock Sioux does not support this type of activity.
Title: Re: Without Reservations: Native American Lesbians Struggle To Find Their Way
Post by: educatedindian on August 22, 2007, 03:09:44 am: For a long time Huhanna Hickey, a Maori gay woman and disabled rights activist, was a dedicated member here. Her health and obligations ot other issues finally kept her from taking part. There have also been at least three or four other gay members of NAFPS that I recall.
Title: Re: Without Reservations: Native American Lesbians Struggle To Find Their Way
Post by: Moma_porcupine on August 22, 2007, 10:37:44 am: Earth7
Quote
The Standing Rock Sioux does not support this type of activity.

I have heard of women being Sundancers , even to the point of being pierced . But then I've also heard the woman just being support to the men who danced , mainly by seeing to the practical running of the camp and seeing everyone had what they need .

Were these woman, who were talked about in the first article , disrespecting some important protocols in doing what they did ?

Do most Lakota believe there are parts of the Sundance that should be restricted to men ?

At what point is a woman participating in a Sundance crossing a line and being disrespectful ?

I don't know if this is something people feel comfortable to explain , but it is something I have wondered about .

I'm guessing proper respect for traditional protocols , would be what's most important. But I have heard so many different things I'm not sure what they are .
Title: Re: Without Reservations: Native American Lesbians Struggle To Find Their Way
Post by: Cetan on August 22, 2007, 02:40:32 pm: I was taught by my mother and grandmothers that the Sundance traditionally is a man's ceremony, the women support the men. In these times the women have had to take their place as warriors alongside the men so they are able to Sundance if there is a need however women do not pierce except with feathers. Women sscrifice themselves, their flesh and blood, when they go through childbirth. I have never heard of a woman Sundance intercessor.
Title: Re: Without Reservations: Native American Lesbians Struggle To Find Their Way
Post by: earthw7 on August 23, 2007, 01:53:16 am: Quote from: Moma_porcupine on August 22, 2007, 10:37:44 am
Earth7
Quote
The Standing Rock Sioux does not support this type of activity.

I have heard of women being Sundancers , even to the point of being pierced . But then I've also heard the woman just being support to the men who danced , mainly by seeing to the practical running of the camp and seeing everyone had what they need .

Were these woman, who were talked about in the first article , disrespecting some important protocols in doing what they did ?

Do most Lakota believe there are parts of the Sundance that should be restricted to men ?

At what point is a woman participating in a Sundance crossing a line and being disrespectful ?

I don't know if this is something people feel comfortable to explain , but it is something I have wondered about .

I'm guessing proper respect for traditional protocols , would be what's most important. But I have heard so many different things I'm not sure what they are .

Hi Moma_porcupine,

I have heard of women being Sundancers , even to the point of being pierced . But then I've also heard the woman just being support to the men who danced , mainly by seeing to the practical running of the camp and seeing everyone had what they need .

The woman have always danced in the Sun Dance with the Yanktonais people as far back as I can read in the winter counts, The Lakota have had women dancing to support the men. The women already give life so that did not have to dance but they supported the men, some of the daughters would dance if a family member was sick. Today things are different women dance in all the Sun Dances that I know of.

Were these woman, who were talked about in the first article , disrespecting some important protocols in doing what they did ?

The dance is for the men and to all have a all women dance seen to little too weird, it goes aganist traditions. What would be the reason for these women to dance without the men? Indian women don't have the issues white women have or at they should not have.

Do most Lakota believe there are parts of the Sundance that should be restricted to men ?

I guess i have a little trouble with this question?? It is a man's dance!

At what point is a woman participating in a Sundance crossing a line and being disrespectful ?

It is not a woman participating in the dance that is the problem because we all have family to dance for, it is the fact that it is an all woman dance. We don't do these things and there is not a reason to them.

I don't know if this is something people feel comfortable to explain , but it is something I have wondered about .

I guess the problem we see is the lesbian sundance. we are taught that these people are a part of our nation and are treated with respect. They are not allowed in the sun dance circle, they can help in camp and help the people but can't dance.

I'm guessing proper respect for traditional protocols , would be what's most important. But I have heard so many different things I'm not sure what they are .

This is what I have been taught "that there is no one way but they is a way"
The problem with today is there are so many sun dance out there in the world with strange rules and strange ways.
It hurts to see this happen to a ceremony that we use to heal of people. We have a way for men and women and it should stay that way. Outsider like to change rules to fit them no matter what happens to the our people.
Title: Re: Without Reservations: Native American Lesbians Struggle To Find Their Way
Post by: Moma_porcupine on August 23, 2007, 02:17:19 am: Thanks for your very complete answers .

The only thing I have ever heard directly from Elders about the Sundance , is them not feeling happy when people from their Nation participated , because it was not their traditions .

From the first article
Quote
The lesbian Sun Dance was born in St. John, Ariz., with 13 Native Americans and 87 other women participating. It was later moved to women’s land in Vermont.

It feels strange to me when I see Sundances happening in the territories of Nations that never did this . Somehow something vital seems missing .
Title: Re: Without Reservations: Native American Lesbians Struggle To Find Their Way
Post by: earthw7 on August 23, 2007, 04:27:50 pm: We have to answer to the people in these area where this is not their tradition.
It is really bad that this kind of thing happens.
Title: Re: Without Reservations: Native American Lesbians Struggle To Find Their Way
Post by: Defend the Sacred on August 23, 2007, 07:35:57 pm: Quote from: earthw7 on August 23, 2007, 01:53:16 am
I guess the problem we see is the lesbian sundance. we are taught that these people are a part of our nation and are treated with respect. They are not allowed in the sun dance circle, they can help in camp and help the people but can't dance.

Thanks for your post, earthw. I'm a bit confused, though. Could you please clarify what you mean by "these people" who can help but not dance? Do only men dance at your Sundances? Or do you mean that among your people lesbians in particular should not dance, even when women dance?
Title: Re: Without Reservations: Native American Lesbians Struggle To Find Their Way
Post by: earthw7 on August 23, 2007, 07:51:02 pm: Quote
Quote from: earthw7 on August 23, 2007, 01:53:16 am
I guess the problem we see is the lesbian sundance. we are taught that these people are a part of our nation and are treated with respect. They are not allowed in the sun dance circle, they can help in camp and help the people but can't dance.

Thanks for your post, earthw. I'm a bit confused, though. Could you please clarify what you mean by "these people" who can help but not dance? Do only men dance at your Sundances? Or do you mean that among your people lesbians in particular should not dance, even when women dance?

Two spirit people cannot dance, women can dance and men can dance. Two spirits can help in the camp. That has been the way among my people as far back as we have recorded on winter counts. I don't know that we have a separation between lesbian and gay as least not that i know of. They are Winkte because they are two spirit there is no difference. We honor winkte but they do not dance. In the Sun Dance only a few people dance and the reason they dance is if someone is sick or in need. A person just don't dance for the sake of dancing. Where we have ceremony you have to tell the reason you are dancing otherwise you will be turned away. It is not a show.
New age stuff don't belong in our ways. The women should be dancing to support the men because it is a man's dance. Woman don't have to dance we are already sacred.
Title: Re: Without Reservations: Native American Lesbians Struggle To Find Their Way
Post by: earthw7 on August 23, 2007, 07:55:38 pm: I have ask people to forgive me if i said anything offensive
because i only know my people ways
and I stand by my people's ways.
I have many friends who are two spirit
they are good people but also know our
traditions.
I don't want our traditions changed.
Every person has a place in my culture
we should not try and changed that culture
because outsider don't understand.
Title: Re: Without Reservations: Native American Lesbians Struggle To Find Their Way
Post by: Defend the Sacred on August 23, 2007, 11:43:05 pm: Likewise, earthw, I hope I have not said anything offensive or upsetting. :-)

I am not suggesting that traditions be changed, or that outsiders be let in. I am only trying to make sure I understand what you're saying, because this is somewhat different from what I have heard from some other folks. That is not a problem, I just want to make sure I understand.

I understand that the Sundance is a very serious ceremony, not a performance or a recreational activity. I understand it is rooted in the community and traditional ways. I understand things can vary a lot from Nation to Nation, and attitudes can certainly vary between different individuals and families. I really only have a bit of direct information about some Sundances at Pine Ridge, and am ignorant about how the ceremonies are done elsewhere.

The reason I asked if lesbians are viewed differently than straight women among your people is that my friend who lived at Pine Ridge never really saw any distinction being made between lesbians and other women. Some of the First Nations folks I know are lesbians, and they've never expected to be treated or categorized any differently from other women. I don't know if they've always been "out" in all situations, though, because some of them view sexuality as a private thing, and it only comes up if they are settled in a family situation with a same-gender partner.
Title: Re: Without Reservations: Native American Lesbians Struggle To Find Their Way
Post by: frederica on August 24, 2007, 01:53:46 am: I think part of the problem is the whole picture has changed. I'm not sure this has the same meaning as it once did. Two Spirits is a term coined in the late 80's by Indians who were lesiban, gay or maybe not. Nations had their own names for this. These were and are respected people. Some had important postions within the Nation. But as little as I know about the Sun Dance, I know they were not allowed to dance, and still are not. They had a job to do within the camp. As I see it people just do what they want to do, when they want, no matter the consequences.
Title: Re: Without Reservations: Native American Lesbians Struggle To Find Their Way
Post by: earthw7 on August 24, 2007, 02:12:10 am: I can't talk for Pine Ridge and what they do. At times I don't understand why there
are so many dances in Pine Ridge.
I do know that the women and their partners here that live here are good people.
In fact at the dance we have it is a woman and her partner that helps with most
of the cooking. They are hard workers.

I don't know if they've always been "out" in all situations, though, because some of them view sexuality as a private thing, and it only comes up if they are settled in a family situation with a same-gender partner.

Sexuality is a private thing. People who have respect for our ways help where they can.
They know that people are praying for you where you are in the dance circle or not.
Title: Re: Without Reservations: Native American Lesbians Struggle To Find Their Way
Post by: apukjij on May 12, 2008, 05:03:43 pm: in maritime canada, homophobia is many times worse in Wapana'ki communities than in the urban setting. there are reasons for this.
in fact i was told because i was Two-Spirited that i could not become a Pipe-Carrier,
even tho i had the dream,
even tho i prayed and studied for many years
and Fasted the required amount of days
even tho my Spirit screamed before contact the Mi'kmaw Two-Spirted were the original Medicine People,
so i put down my Pipe, the decision was simple and easy.

Living with those decisions was excruciating,

but you see if when i raise the Pipe and present it to all of Creation, i must have the backing from the Traditional Elders of my Nation,

your see because its not all about me,
its about being part of a community, a family, a nation,

and also its about honouring and respecting the decisons made when Elders get together and decide things!
Title: Re: Without Reservations: Native American Lesbians Struggle To Find Their Way
Post by: earthw7 on May 19, 2008, 06:27:04 pm: The bottom line with this group is many are not native
they are frauds.
Title: Re: Without Reservations: Native American Lesbians Struggle To Find Their Way
Post by: Kevin on May 21, 2008, 05:35:00 pm: Why would anyone have to have the backing of anyone else in order to pray? That makes no sense.

"but you see if when i raise the Pipe and present it to all of Creation, i must have the backing from the Traditional Elders of my Nation,"
Title: Re: Without Reservations: Native American Lesbians Struggle To Find Their Way
Post by: ska on May 21, 2008, 07:14:53 pm: Excuse me, Kevin, but I think you may have misconstrued what apukjij had to say:

"but you see if when i raise the Pipe and present it to all of Creation, i must have the backing from the Traditional Elders of my Nation,"

I respect what was said in the quote above. This person did not suggest permission is needed to pray. What is said is that backing of the nation and elders is needed to carry a pipe. This seems very respectful, humble, and faithful. If only non-natives could be as humble as Indians are about the pipe, there would probably be a lot less confusion (and far fewer pipes out there).

Most of my Lakota in-laws and friends speak their language and practice their traditional spiritual ways. They are so humble about the pipe and most do not have a personal pipe. They are still able to pray and go to ceremony and give thanks for the ones who carry the pipe for the people. I've never heard a Lakota who speaks his/her language refer to themselves as a "pipe carrier" or a "sun dancer" - these are seen as New Age terms.

From the tiny bit of what I think I have learned from my husband and his elders, hardly anyone used to have a pipe of their own. Far as I can tell, having your own pipe, that's a new age way, too.

My husband, as a Lakota, has his own sense of where this desire to have a pipe comes from, so I'll share some of his words:

"This all started after the United States government started letting the people practice their way openly again. By that time, many had lost their way or had it destroyed, had it beaten out of them, or were adopted out of their communities, but all were subjected to Christian ways that taught them condemn and reject their own natural ways. The Non-natives who come into this way, maybe through a friend, they saw something and they had an illusion of it, which really misinterpreted the way of thought of the Lakota people. This misunderstanding was then mistranslated and manipulated in so many ways that, today, many of the Lakota people themselves feel that they cannot practice their own way anymore. The mass confusion out there is creating a lot of confusion for the Lakota, too. In the past, only certain ones carried the pipe, because they had to help the people. There never was such a thing as "medicine man" or "shaman", these are just new age mistranslations. What these misguided ones don't realize is that a common man could be gifted with a certain knowledge or wisdom that he could bring from the other side into this world of realities."

best, ska
Title: Re: Without Reservations: Native American Lesbians Struggle To Find Their Way
Post by: Kevin on May 23, 2008, 01:15:52 pm: " respect what was said in the quote above. This person did not suggest permission is needed to pray. What is said is that backing of the nation and elders is needed to carry a pipe. This seems very respectful, humble, and faithful. If only non-natives could be as humble as Indians are about the pipe, there would probably be a lot less confusion (and far fewer pipes out there). "

I'm still confused. I take it "to carry a pipe" means to go forth and serve as a spiritual leader and conduct ceremony with a pipe. I do recall seeing a few pipes in a few homes but that was many years ago.

I think the vast majority of non-Indians are indifferent to Indian cultures and spirituality. A small percentage are respectul and a small percentage are downright hostile.

As far as a lesbian sundance, I never heard of such a thing until it popped up here. I never could understand how sexual preference factored into spiritual development regardless of culture.
Title: Beverly Little Thunder &
Post by: snorks on March 12, 2012, 04:48:59 pm: This is on Beverly Little Thunder. Is this something to be concerned about?

From: http://kunsikeya.org/
Kunsi Keya Tamakoce
Grandmother Turtle Land

Wimmin’s Sundance 2012

July 21 -29, 2012
Huntington, Vermont
----------
The write up is of the site: Our Mission ...

Kunsi Keya Tamakoce is dedicated to sharing the traditional teachings and sacred ceremonies of the Lakota people with women, children, and men, in order to support the health and well-being of the earth and all who live here. Kunsi Keya Tamakoce uses the Lakota model of community building which cultivates a deep connection to the earth, empowers women to reclaim their role as wise leaders and creates a framework for future generations to realize the importance of living in harmony with the natural world.
--------------

Happenings & Special Events

SUNDANCE 2012
July 21 – 29, 2012
Huntington, VT

-----------------

Monthly Ceremonies:

1st Saturday of the Month February 4th forward Pipe Ceremony

May - October Inipi

Monthly Inipi Ceremony

An Inipi is the oldest ceremony of my people, the Lakota, one brought to them by an elder grandmother. The structure represents the womb of our mother earth and the safety we all experienced before our entry into this cycle of life. The Inipi is a structure which is built out of saplings and covered by tarps. Stones are heated outside in a firepit and carried into the lodge where everyone is seated on the ground in a circle. The purpose of the ceremony is cleansing and prayer.

I am honored to be able to share this aspect of my traditional ways as a tool for others who may be searching for a connection to their Higher Power.

All are welcome to attend, it does not matter what your beliefs are or to whom you pray. We are taught that Spirit only sees your heart and intention when the door is closed and it is completely dark in the lodge.

We will hold ceremony on the first Saturday of each month at Kunsi Keya in Huntington, Vt. Please call ahead to confirm your attendance.

There is never a charge for ceremony; ever. There are however expenses, to help defray costs of wood, laundry, herbs, fabric and the ongoing work of Kunsi Keya, we will provide a basket where your requested donation of $15 (more or less) can be placed. After the ceremony, which last about 2 hours, it is traditional to share a potluck meal together so please bring a prepared dish to share.

You will need to bring a towel to sit on and one to dry off with after the lodge. It is appropriate to wear shorts and t-shirt, a loose fitting dress or a cloth wrap into the lodge. For your comfort, it is recommended that you have a change of clothes for after the ceremony. If you would like to come and just observe by sitting outside with the fire that is also okay. Please give us a call with any questions or concerns.

I look forward to seeing you and sharing this important part of my life with my friends and community members.

----- Beverly Little Thunder ------
--------------
Kunsi Keya Tamakoce welcomes you to the opportunity of participating and praying in the traditional ways of the Lakota people.

The Lakota Sundance Ceremony is a very sacred ceremony that requires quiet attention and prayerful respect in your participation, and we ask that you observe some basic etiquette when participating. You never know what to expect at Sundance, and nothing but the experience gives you this knowledge. Should you decide to attend, please read this information even if you have attended a traditional Native American ceremony in the past. Be open to learn and observe, do not assume you know. We want to always be respectful.

Thank you for taking the time to educate yourself in advance, so that your energy at Sundance may be directed toward the purpose of Sundance.

What is a Lakota Sundance?

The Sundance is one of the Seven Sacred Ceremonies given to the Lakota people. Sundance is a ceremony that represents life and rebirth. Sundance is a New Year ceremony celebrated in the summer, usually on a full moon. It is a very powerful and sacred ceremony that has withstood severe oppression many times since it was given to the People. It was once exclusively Lakota, but has become a ceremony employed by many other American Indian tribes. Each tribe has its own variation of Sundance.

The focus of this Ceremony is one prayer: healing for the Mother Earth. We are praying for all humanity. We are giving thanks for all the good things that the Creator has given to us.

The Lakota Wimmin’s Sundance lasts 8 days. The first four days are spent in purification, ridding oneself of physical and emotional wastes, and preparing for the Creator’s help and blessing. The last four days are the ones in which the dancing and most of the Ceremony take place.

What is an "Inipi"?

The Inipi, or Sweat Lodge, is the way we pray to the Creator. The Sweat Lodge is the purification process, which begins and ends all Lakota Ceremonies. The lodge represents the womb of our Mother Earth, and when we crawl out at the end of the Inipi Ceremony, it is like a rebirth.
-------------------------
About Beverly Little Thunder

The birth mother of the Wimmin’s Sundance is Beverly Little Thunder. Beverly began dancing 35 years ago. Until 1987, Beverly was a Lakota Sundance leader and recognized as a respected female in the traditional Sundance community. When Beverly came out as a "two-spirit" womon, she was asked to leave her traditional Sundance family. Seeking guidance, Beverly approached a female elder. The elder’s wisdom led Beverly to envision a variation of the traditional Lakota Sundance: a ceremony of strength and empowerment generated by women.

The Wimmin’s Sundance is a vision, rooted within traditional Lakota culture; however, Beverly’s vision imagined change in some traditional protocol. In traditional Lakota ceremonies, women are inferior to men. In addition, only participants able to prove their Native American heritage are allowed privileges such as facilitating Inipi Ceremonies, beating the Sacred Drum, entering the Arbor, and becoming a Sundancer.

The vision gifted to Beverly portrayed women, Native American and from other descents, fulfilling the roles of Sundance in a careful and nurturing way.

Presently, Beverly is living on 101 acres of land in Vermont where the ceremony will be held. Beverly’s vision is to build a community for women of Native descent to have space to honor the ceremonies of their ancestors. The land will be held in trust for future generations to care for, and continue the Wimmin’s Sundance Ceremony.

------- There is a long discussion on Sundance and Supporters

Arriving On the Land

Wimmin are welcome and needed to come early and stay after the Ceremony to assist with set-up and clean up. We especially need women to stay Monday and Tuesday for clean up after ceremony; this will help both the Ceremony and your transitional time. Please let us know in advance the dates you will be able to attend this will allow us to plan meals.

There is never a charge for ceremony. Your contribution of $20 - $35 per day of attendance, sent in with your registration, pays for 3 meals per day and snacks, propane, wood, paper products, wood chips and many other camp supplies and services. If you are unable to meet the suggested minimum contribution, please contact us prior to the registration deadline. There are limited funds available to assist with travel expenses for Native Wimmin wishing to attend for the first time. Please write for more information.
Title: Beverly Little Thunder &
Post by: earthw7 on March 12, 2012, 06:58:30 pm: This is wrong in so many ways :o
Title: Beverly Little Thunder &
Post by: Defend the Sacred on March 13, 2012, 09:18:18 pm: We have another thread on this here, too. I am going to merge the threads.

I know someone who went to one of these events to see what was happening; she said it is almost entirely non-Native women, almost all of them white. She was very uncomfortable and left. It is a woman serving as intercessor at what is traditionally a man's ceremony, running this ceremony for non-Native women, in territory that is not Sun Dance territory.
Title: Re: Without Reservations: Native American Lesbians Struggle To Find Their Way
Post by: nemesis on March 14, 2012, 07:50:33 am: Quote from: debbieredbear on August 21, 2007, 11:09:51 pm
Quote
the women's spirituality scene has been appalling when it comes to cultural appropriation. Most of the people who attend Newage events and fill the shameons pockets are middle-class, middle-age, white women.

This is why I quit subscribing to MS magazine. The last straw was when they had to pages of letters to the editor whining about how no one could tell THEM what to believe. They totally missed that they were as guilty of opressing Indian women as they said men were guilty of opressong them. The magazine really had littel for poor women, let alone poor Indian Indian women.

Ms Magazine was founded by Gloria Steinem, a controversial figure in who was prominent in promoting the "recovered memory" movement that lead to many abuses against innocent people and to the ongoing farcical circus relating to the myth of widespread Satanist abuse that was promoted and perpetuated by many "feminists". Such "feminists" include Beatrix Campbell (OBE ::) ) and the completely unqualified authors Eileen Bass and Laura Davis who wrote the notorious book "the courage to heal" (a deranged, fact free tome claiming that a range of illnesses and psychological problems are "signs" of repressed memories of child sexual abuse), Susie Orbach (Princess Diana's former therapist, author of Fat is a Feminist Issue, and another promoter of "recovered memories") and countless other so called "feminists".

I mention this simply because, IME, there is a deeply concerning relationship between some aspects of the feminist movement, cultural appropriators and the people promoting the "satanic panic". The unfortunate tendency of some wimmin's groups to commit themselves to support evidence free campaigns (everything from invalid and fantasised so called "research" into sex trafficking through to insane beliefs about Satanist abuse) has left them vulnerable to infiltration by the same predatory groups of sex traffickers that they claim to oppose.

This is an incredibly serious issue and maybe worthy of its own thread?
Title: Re: Beverly Little Thunder & "Wimmin's Sun Dance"
Post by: RedRightHand on May 23, 2018, 07:56:37 pm: I didn't think it was possible, but it's getting even worse now that Beverly has died. Exploitation of ceremonies, selling of ceremonies, non-Natives running and selling ceremonies, and misrepresentation and exploitation of Two Spirit teachings. None of these people know what Two Spirit is. Two Spirit doesn't just mean "gay, lesbian, bi or trans." Two Spirit may be a modern term, but it's a pan-Indian term that Natives chose by consensus, for speaking about the traditional ways of cultures that have ceremonial traditions of a particular sort, that are usually fulfilled by gay, lesbian, bi, or gender nonconforming people in their particular ceremonial culture. It is not for non-Natives, and it's not even about tribes that don't have those traditions. It's not about nuagers making crap up and thinking they have a right to just because they're gay or trans.

This group is now making offensive videos, full of non-Natives mangling and misrepresenting songs and ceremonies they never had a right to. They are selling their fake sundance on the Internet. They are rebooting their website and posting videos on YouTube. It's getting very ugly. These people are responsible for colonizing the Two Spirit camp at Standing Rock. They sent lying, non-Native crystal wavers there, who tried to "educate" traditional people about ceremony. Beverly sent money, so some people who really should know better tolerated some of these freaks. No wonder the spirits were angered and told the actual spiritual leaders that all the nons had to leave.

This is what happens when people like Beverly aren't stopped. This is her legacy:

https://youtu.be/9He3J1umDgU

http://kunsikeya.org/

More mangled songs https://youtu.be/_AM8U_Nqvso

And here we see that they are also connected to other exploiters, like at this event with the 13 Pay to Pray Old Ladies: https://youtu.be/QBywKUZQuPk

Who have their own thread, here: http://www.newagefraud.org/smf/index.php?topic=1216.90
Title: Re: kunsikeya.org / Beverly Little Thunder & "Wimmin's Sun Dance"
Post by: Smart Mule on February 24, 2023, 07:43:27 pm: Except she's not dead. She's continued to flourish in Vermont, even joining the Vermont Commission on Native American Affairs. The attached resignation letter from the commission could be the one good things she has done, exposing the fakes in Vermont. The chief she refers to is Don Stevens and the current chair she mentions is Richard Holschuh.
Title: Re: kunsikeya.org / Beverly Little Thunder & "Wimmin's Sun Dance"
Post by: Smart Mule on February 24, 2023, 11:20:08 pm: https://www.vermontpublic.org/local-news/2023-02-13/vt-native-american-commission-official-says-shes-resigning-over-members-false-claims-of-indigeneity-misogyny (https://www.vermontpublic.org/local-news/2023-02-13/vt-native-american-commission-official-says-shes-resigning-over-members-false-claims-of-indigeneity-misogyny)

"Last week, a member of the nine-person Vermont Commission on Native American Affairs announced by email they were resigning.

Beverly Little Thunder has served on the Commission since 2019. And as part of that official body, she was tasked with developing policies and programs to benefit Vermont's Native American population.

In her email letter, Little Thunder said she was stepping down because of “deceit and dysfunction.”

And in her time there, she says she’s witnessed male commissioners being dismissive of their female colleagues.

Little Thunder, who is Lakota, also alleges members of the Commission are falsely claiming to be Indigenous.

She isn’t the only one to level these allegations. Two Abenaki First Nations in Quebec claim that Vermont’s state-recognized tribes, to which many of the Commission members belong, have not provided the genealogical and historical evidence to show they are Abenaki.

State-recognized tribes counter these claims by saying they went through the state recognition process.

Beverly Little Thunder recently spoke with Vermont Public reporter and producer Elodie Reed, who has been following this story. Their conversation has been edited and condensed for clarity.

Elodie Reed: Beverly, thank you so much for taking the time to talk with me. I want to talk about your resignation letter, and you said you wanted to join the Vermont Commission on Native American Affairs to provide a voice for all Native Americans living in Vermont. I'm just wondering, after sitting on the Commission, you said that you didn't find that to be the case? And can you explain that a little bit?

Beverly Little Thunder: Well, when I joined the Commission, I had met a lot of other Native people from different nations that were pretty much silent. And at the time, I didn't know much about the history of the four bands of Abenaki that are here. And I, you know, I wanted to support — to support them.

And once I got on the Commission, I began doing some more in-depth research, and finding out that what was on the surface, and what was being presented to the general public, was not actually the case. And I was very, very uncomfortable.

I'm just wondering, from your perspective, how you define Indigeneity, and sort of how that lines up with what you saw in your fellow commissioners.

For me, it can go back, you know, five – five generations. But the local tribes that I discussed it with, said three, you know, direct descendants three times removed. And active participation within that tribe.

When this new Commission was seated, I looked around and I realized that no one in the room really fit that definition. And the person who was elected — Rich Holschuh was elected chairperson — and I questioned.

Beverly Little Thunder: “Last year, we had a — we had a Zoom meeting. And you were directly asked if you were Indigenous, and you said that you were not Indigenous?”

Rich Holschuh: “I do solemnly affirm that I am of Indigenous heritage, it is not within three generations. And those are my exact words at that time.”

And that was not a satisfactory answer for me. I knew that to challenge it further at that time would only ensue in a heated discussion, and that he would be backed by all the men that were there. So I stayed silent. That was the last Commission meeting I went to, I have not attended any since then.

In your letter, you also mentioned misogyny that you experienced when you were on the Commission. And I'm just wondering if you could talk a little more about what that looked like, and how it impacted your work on the Commission.

Well, when I initially got on the Commission, it was primarily women. And then towards the end, we had a couple of men who came on who took up a lot of space. And it was almost as — we would say something or make a statement, and they would shoot it down. And there are Indigenous women in Vermont who are strong, but whose power has been just cut off at the knees by these men. And it's hard to speak out. And one of the reasons why I chose to leave.

You in your letter ask the governor and lawmakers to hold the Commission accountable and to look deeper into the claims of who is Abenaki here. Do you think — I guess like, what are your expectations for those officials to follow through on that request?

I don't expect Gov. Scott to do anything. I don't think he really cares. I don't expect anyone is going to sit down and really look at the claims, that probably should have been looked at when they had state recognition.

You mentioned that you haven't been to a Commission meeting I think since September, that was the last one. And I'm just wondering why you chose now to announce your resignation and to, really, speak out.

I have been working on this since then. And I have followed my spiritual practices of Lakota people. And I've taken some time to pray about it. And answers don't come just overnight.

What do you hope happens moving forward?

I think my intent is to educate the public, to let people know my experiences, and to get them to thinking. Let them make their decisions.

As I said with the Legislature, I wish that they would look and rescind some of those bills. So that the Vermont people are not supporting something that is false, a false claim.

But there are many people who have drank the Kool-Aid, so to speak, and who feel, you know, their white guilt, and they want to do something to minimize that guilt to what their ancestors did.

And hopefully, some of them will really, really rethink.

The response to the email

Vermont Public reached out to Vermont Commission on Native American Affairs chair Rich Holschuh for a response to Little Thunder’s email.

Holschuh shared the written statement below:

I have not yet seen an official filing of Beverly Little Thunder's resignation letter but unexpectedly I have been informed of it privately by you. I can only respond to this request as an individual person and to the degree I have knowledge of situations experienced in my capacity as a previous member of the Commission for the statutorily-limited two terms from mid-2016 til mid-2020 and, since re-appointment in September 2022 through the present, during which tenure I have been chosen to serve as Chair. Beverly joined the Commission in Oct. of 2019, 8 months before I stepped down.

During that overlap in appointments, I attended 6 regular meetings at which Beverly was present for 4. I worked with Beverly on legislative initiatives during that short time. which I appreciated. During the entirety of the those first two terms, including the brief period where our terms overlapped, the VCNAA was chaired by a woman colleague, and, with the exception of the first 3 months served, Vice-Chaired by another woman colleague. Beverly has attended 1 of the last 5 meetings. I have had very little interaction with Beverly and only in regular meetings, other than the aforementioned legislative efforts but I believe it was always cordial. I attach a photo of one such moment when collaboration was the motivation, something for which I strive. I do consider myself a feminist and I believe the women I am privileged to have in my life will attest to that.

In September when I was nominated to the position of Chair, there was an open discussion about my eligibility to serve in that position, since it had been a topic of discussion in previous meetings. It was established that I did meet those expectations and the nomination was approved.

At that same September meeting, a previewed letter from the Commission to the Administration at UVM, expressing recent concerns about recent events there and asking for dialogue was read aloud and approved by consensus, including Beverly, with one abstention by a member who had not had time to review the letter herself. All of these things are recorded and available in the minutes which are a matter of public record and posted on the Commission's webpage.

A state official confirmed that to resign, Little Thunder must submit an official letter to the Commission.

Vermont Public did not immediately receive responses from the governor or leaders in the Vermont House and Senate."

eta - cross posted here http://www.newagefraud.org/smf/index.php?topic=2649.msg48921#new (http://www.newagefraud.org/smf/index.php?topic=2649.msg48921#new)
Title: Re: kunsikeya.org / Beverly Little Thunder & "Wimmin's Sun Dance"
Post by: RedRightHand on April 27, 2024, 06:44:43 pm: I find it incredibly ironic that she's speaking out about pretendians now, because Beverly Little Thunder is personally responsible for creating hundreds, possibly thousands, of pretendians herself. By selling ceremony to non-Natives for decades, she has created a huge network of frauds who have now taught frauds, expanding exponentially to such a degree that now there are pretendians who don't even know she's the source of their "teachings".

It's shocking to me that there are now legit people allowing her to participate in projects who don't seem to know (or care?!) that she has done so much harm and, as far as I know, never apologized or done a single thing to make it right. The disclaimers posted above about her only letting Natives dance, lead ceremony, etc, are completely untrue. Non-Native people of all backgrounds, but overwhelmingly monied white women, who learned from Beverly, are leading bastardized Native ceremonies all over the country, and probably the world by now.