NAFPS Forum

General => Frauds => Topic started by: nemesis on September 18, 2010, 07:56:15 am

Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: nemesis on September 18, 2010, 07:56:15 am
Of course there is nothing to stop anyone from making a facebook page with the name Little Grandmother and using it as a satirical page / critical page from which to warn people about this disgusting woman.

I was just wondering if this might be one possible way forward?

Of course she may contact facebook to say that she is being misrepresented and that our page is fake, but then people could do the same with her page and get it removed as she is misrepresenting herself and others.

Just thinking aloud really.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: educatedindian on September 18, 2010, 02:39:03 pm
Crowther wouldn't have a leg to stand on. I think we should use the same tactics that were done against the fraud Suraj Holzwarth.
http://www.newagefraud.org/smf/index.php?topic=1513.0

That includes facebook pages devoted todebunking her and organizing against her that dogged her every step.
http://www.facebook.com/topic.php?uid=112090221020&topic=10901

And youtube videos spreading the word about her.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bHtJYR-neIY&feature=related

All the same can and should be done vs Crowther, IMO.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Freija on September 18, 2010, 04:17:27 pm
I am all for it - but would appreciate if a Native person would like to start a group.
I´ll be there...!
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: nemesis on September 18, 2010, 06:17:12 pm
I'll be there too :)
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Peasant on October 07, 2010, 06:42:30 pm
I have been watching Kiesha Crowther's videos for a while, and am active on the forums on tribeofmanycolors.net, but i've felt like things are not adding up for a while already. There's a few things i'd like to set straight so first i will quote some of the things discussed in this topic and share what i know about them. Then i will share some of my personal experience. I hope we can get to the bottom of this.

-

There's one thing about the website tribeofmanycolors.net; It is not run by Kiesha Crowther, but made voluntarily by a European man who found her videos on the internet. I do not know if he asked permission to make it; however Kiesha agrees with it and every now and then, through Facebook she posts a link to this website.

-


She's clever enough to not post fees on her pages, but is asking for money on her Facebook Page.
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Little-Grandmother/110183489016680?v=wall&story_fbid=107422722634384

Little Grandmother - "Dearest friends and family, members of the tribe of many colors.. Little Grandmother has fallen on very hard times, financially she has been grounded to a halt as she lives solely on the kindness of others and their donations. Please dear family if you can spare any offerings Little Grandmother is in need of the support. to send an offering send an email for more info."
May 2 at 6:29pm


The call for financial support on Facebook while she's supposed to be the woman from an age-old prophecy is strange indeed. I saw the post when she made it and at the time, it made me think her hardships might be some kind of test. An opportunity to strengthen the bond between her and her tribe or something. I have to say i have not seen her asking for money since or before. But yes it is strange. She is coming to speak in my country in a few weeks, very close to where i live, but i don't feel like paying anything, especially that much: 40 euros! (at this time, that's about 55 dollars).

I would like to quote this q/a from the FAQ on the tribeofmanycolors.net website, a little food for thought:

Quote
http://www.tribeofmanycolors.net/kiesha-faq-answers/3-kiesha-crowther-little-grandmother/5-20-why-arent-your-workshops-and-talks-free.html

Why aren’t your workshops and talks free?

Because this is such an important question, we'd like to take some time in answering it.
Little Grandmother is committed to making her message and any information she receives from the spirits and Mother Earth freely available to all through the release of videos on YouTube. She will continue to make these available as important information comes through that she is asked to share with humanity. Her primary way of communicating and sharing the message is through these freely given videos, which reach people all over the globe more efficiently and effectively than doing events can.

Therefore, her traveling to do talks and workshops is something "extra" which she does not have to do in order to reach hearts. Her message that each of us is the Great I AM should prevent the thinking that she or anyone else is closer to Spirit/Source/the Divine than someone else, and that being in her presence is somehow necessary to "getting it".

Yet there are many people who are inspired and touched by her talks and wish to connect with her, work with her in a deeper way, and who want to hear her speak in person. For this purpose, she is willing to travel to do public talks and workshops—but this is a lot of work and energy-output on her part, being a highly sensitive being.

-


On this site, one person mentions seeing in her videos she believes China will destroy the US, and that it's a good thing too.
http://www.godlikeproductions.com/forum1/message1088572/pg1


This is not true, she has said that the US will lose some of it's power and that it won't be the most powerful country in the world anymore in the future. Where the China part comes in: she has said that another country, perhaps China or another country, might 'buy' a small part of the US or get control of it through cooperation, to prevent the US from fully deteriorating. Not through violent takeover. But yes, according to her, it would be a blessing, in a spiritual sense.

-


Crowther's homepage is mentioned on lots of sites promoting the 2012 hoax. Both Crowther and Perez Oxlaj get mentioned on the site of a Barbara Svoboda from Germany who advertizes almost every person known in the 2012 movement. Svoboda's site mentions events with Tadeja Jere Lazanski, an associate professor of touristic studies from Slovenia – so this might be how Crowther came to plan events in that country: http://www.indalosia.de/Tadeja_Lazanski_Slovenia.htm (for  texts in English language, pls scroll down). Lazanski in turn cooperates with Calleman, as one example.


I have never before heard of Barbara Svoboda, i don't think there's an affiliation between her and Kiesha Crowther. I have often heard of Perez Oxlaj, actually he recently said in a Eso.tv interview that nothing will happen in 2012. I haven't seen the interview but have read a review about it, which i think is good. You can find it here: http://jlnavarro.blogspot.com/2010/08/wandering-wolfs-esotv-webcast-message.html
I have also heard of Calleman and all his Conscious Convergence stuff. There were posts about it on the tribeofmanycolors.net forums (made by other forum members) but i never liked it. It didn't seem important to me.

-


Was contacted today by someone saying that I must be happy about Arvol Looking Horse having a "representative" doing ceremonies in his spirit here in Sweden. I just asked "What??!" And got the reply that she was a Lakota named Little Grandmother.

Gaaaaah! I am trying to work out if SHE claims to be working with Arvol or if the organisers make that claim. But apparantly quite a few people think she is, so someone is promoting her with even more lies.


I have not heard of Arvol Looking Horse before or heard Kiesha Crowther speak about an affiliation with him. I will post a topic on the tribeofmanycolors.net forums asking if anyone has heard anything about an affiliation.

-

My cousin and I have been quietly watching "little grandmother" for awhile on facebook. I signed up here to comment after seeing someone on facebook post that she had been mentioned on this forum. My cousin is pretty angry right now, trying to put word out about this woman. My family is Lakota. My cousin married a Salish and she and my grandmother live in the Flathead. She has shown pictures and video of this woman and her claims, and no one knows her or heard of her. Our family back in Lower Brule, do not know of her either except one who says she heard she was ordained by a new agey group in Colorado to go out and do these ceremonies with her crystals and that she has abandoned her children and husband to go and live this life. She is making other claims about how the Salish in the Flathead has made her a shaman over their people now. This is a lie as no one here hears of her.
I feel that all we can do is make demands for her to post pictures of her with family and elders to prove her claims. We do not know the entire story of what she is up to or why and trying to piece this together.

Now this is where it gets interesting. I also have never found any evidence, coming directly from a established indigenous tribe, that she's affiliated with them (so also not from Salish). I have never found any evidence of the supposed prophecy of a fair-haired girl coming to unite people, nor evidence of a prophecy about the Tribe of Many Colors. I have never found evidence that her mother is Salish, or evidence that these crystals which she is using for her ceremonies have indeed been safeguarded by indigenous tribes for many, many years. And i've seen every video, listened to every radio interview, and read every message that she's put out.

I remember that about a month ago, when i was already reading the newagefraud.org forums, she made a Facebook post (which is now deleted) about how she felt really hurt, when she heard that there are people who believe the Continental Council of Indigenous Elders is fake. I don't remember exactly what she said but it comes down to something like: "I feel really hurt, these are some of the most beautiful indigenous elders/people on the planet, i am trying to change the channel (her way of saying: not giving energy to negativity) but having trouble with it". She still did not provide proof however. So today i have made a post on the tribeofmanycolors.net forums, asking if anyone can shed a light on this Continental council of indigenous elders.

In one of her videos she also tells this story about befriending an owl, and when the owl was dieing, it flew into her, getting it's talon stuck in her chest, after which it died in her arms... she says she still has this scar, and the talon, but she's never shown them. I don't know if it's considered to be disrespectful or anything to show such a personal item? But again, another lack of proof!

-

Now for some other things i'd like to share...

First, what got me into this, was that a friend of mine was looking for information about shamans. I had been interested in reïncarnation, regression therapy and Buddhism for some time, but i was not very interested in shamanism before. I searched Youtube for the word 'shaman' and ended up at one of Kiesha Crowther's videos. It felt very uplifting. As she made so many references to indigenous tribes, it all seemed to be authentic. Quite a lot of the things she talked about, summed up a lot of stuff that i've read about before, and know to be true. I was touched by what she says about a difficult childhood: feeling very different, and finding refuge in nature when there was abuse going on in her home. I liked how her videos are free, how she remained humble by deliberately not wearing full regalia (While she had all the right to do this, right...?). I also believe that some of the things she says about communicating with animals are true.

I also liked how she says she is only a messenger, how she is not a guru or teacher, and all that. "This is only my task, everyone has another equal task". However... many of her followers (yes i do think some can be called followers) are very much focused on her, instead of the message. Just look at all the comments on her pictures on Facebook... her picture embedded in the tribeofmanycolors.net website... i feel like many of her followers are making her into a guru, rather than that she's doing this (or her "affiliates", as people in this topic call them).

One of her 'urgent messages' (about the Gulf oil spill) contains information that i believe was shared with her by someone who i found out to be very mentally unstable and in a lot of trouble. I know for a fact that she invited him to write down his 'knowledge' and share links (derived from all kinds of conspiracy websites of which some are very questionable) on her Facebook wall, which he did a LOT for some time. This is one of the things that first made me question her claims: if she can 'sense energy' so well, she would know not to cooperate with someone who needs help badly.

What really got me disillusioned is: in one of her internet radio interviews, she says there will be a 'cleanse', related to 2012/ascension stuff. Something along the lines of: "People who are not living in the heart will not be able to cope with the new energies, i'm saying this with all of my knowing and every fiber of my being", "to fully enlightened beings, death does not seem like death... the world will be beautiful afterwards". A little blend of Hopi prophecy apparently? (Right now i'm wondering: is that really true about Hopi prophecy, or is it all new-age mumbo jumbo?) When she said this, it really did not feel right to me.

-

I always despised all this 'star child, crystal seed' stuff before, because it easily makes people think they're basically a superior race... but now i realize this tribe stuff is something similar. I like her message about being nice to each other, living in the heart, spending more time in nature. The world would be wonderful if many more people would do that. But there's a difference between living from the heart, being nice to people, following your intuition - and shutting down your mind.

I think Kiesha Crowther does have some good things to share, and that she believes in what she does. But possibly she is very much misguided, and i really would like to see either some proof, or some further debunking about her 'indigenous claims'. Perhaps i'll watch a new video when it comes out to see if she has anything new to share. Best thing for me to do anyhow, seems just to move on.

And finally, thank you people for this great website  :)
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: critter - a white non-ndn person on October 07, 2010, 07:40:00 pm

Quote
http://www.tribeofmanycolors.net/kiesha-faq-answers/3-kiesha-crowther-little-grandmother/5-20-why-arent-your-workshops-and-talks-free.html

Why aren’t your workshops and talks free?

Because this is such an important question, we'd like to take some time in answering it.
Little Grandmother is committed to making her message and any information she receives from the spirits and Mother Earth freely available to all through the release of videos on YouTube. She will continue to make these available as important information comes through that she is asked to share with humanity. Her primary way of communicating and sharing the message is through these freely given videos, which reach people all over the globe more efficiently and effectively than doing events can.

Therefore, her traveling to do talks and workshops is something "extra" which she does not have to do in order to reach hearts. Her message that each of us is the Great I AM should prevent the thinking that she or anyone else is closer to Spirit/Source/the Divine than someone else, and that being in her presence is somehow necessary to "getting it".

Yet there are many people who are inspired and touched by her talks and wish to connect with her, work with her in a deeper way, and who want to hear her speak in person. For this purpose, she is willing to travel to do public talks and workshops—but this is a lot of work and energy-output on her part, being a highly sensitive being.

-


This is just... well, first I laughed.. but seriously, the issues are of massive ego and mentally unstable.

People with hard childhoods often seek a grandeur reasoning for their life.. and use that to bolster
their egos and perhaps even their sanity while being so tortured. But, it is not real. And at some
point, it will crash.  It is sad.  While I do believe these people COULD have sensitivities to spiritual worlds..
their lack of mental stability makes them inept.  And that is sad..

What's even sadder is they go around claiming to teach.. and guide.. and hurting others by doing so.
But the need for this belief of their self is what keeps them from totally losing it.. and I suspect this
Keisha is in that boat.  The woman does not come across to me as being mentally stable, or
even real, especially her claims. Having been on Nafps this long I have learned enough to know that
no native tribe would be affiliated with someone like her.. and seriously, the spirits that affiliate with
any native tribe, would have no reason to use some person outside of tribe to conduit.. and certainly
not a mentally unstable person such as herself.

Her claims are simply false.  Sure, she may touch on spiritual essence from time to time, but so do
many others.. this does not make her humanity's messenger..

As for being so sensitive. That is just bull.  That is just more her trying to upscale herself from
regular humans.. 






Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: educatedindian on October 07, 2010, 09:22:37 pm

1...she has said that the US will lose some of it's power and that it won't be the most powerful country in the world anymore in the future. Where the China part comes in: she has said that another country, perhaps China or another country, might 'buy' a small part of the US or get control of it through cooperation, to prevent the US from fully deteriorating. Not through violent takeover. But yes, according to her, it would be a blessing, in a spiritual sense....

2. I also have never found any evidence, coming directly from a established indigenous tribe, that she's affiliated with them (so also not from Salish). I have never found any evidence of the supposed prophecy of a fair-haired girl coming to unite people, nor evidence of a prophecy about the Tribe of Many Colors. I have never found evidence that her mother is Salish, or evidence that these crystals which she is using for her ceremonies have indeed been safeguarded by indigenous tribes for many, many years. And i've seen every video, listened to every radio interview, and read every message that she's put out.

3. I remember that about a month ago, when i was already reading the newagefraud.org forums, she made a Facebook post (which is now deleted) about how she felt really hurt, when she heard that there are people who believe the Continental Council of Indigenous Elders is fake. I don't remember exactly what she said but it comes down to something like: "I feel really hurt, these are some of the most beautiful indigenous elders/people on the planet, i am trying to change the channel (her way of saying: not giving energy to negativity) but having trouble with it". She still did not provide proof however. So today i have made a post on the tribeofmanycolors.net forums, asking if anyone can shed a light on this Continental council of indigenous elders.

4. In one of her videos she also tells this story about befriending an owl, and when the owl was dieing, it flew into her, getting it's talon stuck in her chest, after which it died in her arms... she says she still has this scar, and the talon, but she's never shown them. I don't know if it's considered to be disrespectful or anything to show such a personal item? But again, another lack of proof!

5....I searched Youtube for the word 'shaman' and ended up at one of Kiesha Crowther's videos. It felt very uplifting, right away, she really touched my heart. As she made so many references to indigenous tribes, it all felt very authentic. Quite a lot of the things she talked about, summed up a lot of stuff that i've read about before, and know to be true. I was touched by what she says about a difficult childhood: feeling very different, and finding refuge in nature when there was abuse going on in her home. I liked how her videos are free,

6. how she remained humble by deliberately not wearing full regalia (While she had all the right to do this, right...?)

7. I also liked how she says she is only a messenger, how she is not a guru or teacher, and all that....i feel like many of her followers are making her into a guru, rather than that she's doing this (or her "affiliates", as people in this topic call them).

8....What really got me disillusioned is: in one of her internet radio interviews, she says there will be a 'cleanse', related to 2012/ascension stuff. Something along the lines of: "People who are not living in the heart will not be able to cope with the new energies, i'm saying this with all of my knowing and every fiber of my being", "to fully enlightened beings, death does not seem like death... the world will be beautiful afterwards". A little blend of Hopi prophecy apparently? (Right now i'm wondering: is that really true about Hopi prophecy, or is it all new-age mumbo jumbo?)

9. I like her message about being nice to each other, living in the heart, spending more time in nature. The world would be wonderful if many more people would do that. But there's a difference between living from the heart, being nice to people, following your intuition - and shutting down your mind, which i sadly have to say, quite a lot of the followers seem to be doing.

10. I'm sure Kiesha Crowther is not a bad person, she does have some very good things to share, and that she believes in what she does. But possibly she is very much misguided, and i really would like to see either some proof, or some further debunking about her 'indigenous claims'. 

11....And finally, thank you people for this great website  :)

Crescent, thanks for all the information and insight, and welcome. I've put numbers to make it clearer what I'm responding to.

1. That kind of "prophecy" is not exactly insightful. Almost anyone can see how the US has weakened itself with unneeded wars and wasteful ways of living.

2. We don't know of any evidence as well. Most likely she is a white pretender, or perhaps has very distant ancestry. By her own account on her sites, she has had little contact with her alleged people. No way would they entrust someone so unknowing with an (allegedly) important message.

3. This so called Continental Council of Indigenous Elders is nothing of the sort. It's a fraudulent organization, run by and for frauds. This is them:
http://www.earthworksforhumanity.org/pages/ROTA.shtml

It's Adam DeArmon AKA "Adam Yellowbird's" organization. He's an exploiter and white imposter selling phony ceremonies out of Sedona. We hav threads on him in here. If Krowther thinks he or the others in that group are genuine, then she is very easily fooled.

A young man contacted me some time ago because DeArmon was offering free trips to any elderly Native in his coimmunity in Alaska who would go. He signed his grandpa up because he thought it'd be a chance for him to travel, then backed away once I explained it al to him. Basically DeArmon is using elderly Natives as window dressing. They're not elders at all.

4. That story is bizarre. Among many Native peoples, owl is an omen of bad luck. One attacking you while dying is not something to brag about.

5. She really knows how to tell stories that are emotional and appeal to lost people. That certainly doesn't make her genuine. How you feel about her is not a reliable guide. How do Natives feel about her? We are pretty certain she's as phony as a 3 dollar bill.

6. That's a really strange thing to say. Natives don't go about dressed in regalia every day, anymore than Swedes wear Viking helmets or Germans wear lederhosen. The fact that she felt the need to dress up in regalia just says pretty clearly that she realized, without buckskin, no Europeans would believe she was Indian.

7. That's an important point. Who the heck is behind her? She's frankly not smart enough and doesn't have enough resources to get all these websites and speaking tours up and running this fast. She's only been around a very short time and has easily 100 times more websites devoted to her than a typical imposter. Someone is investing a lot of money and time on her.

Could you ask on that site: who sponsors her? Who builds her sites, and esp who pays for all these sites? And what their motives are. Crowther may be a pawn or puppet.

8. No, it's not Hopi, not even Mayan. The 2012 bit is New Age plus some others out ot make money.

9. It's a nice enough and harmless message, but does anyone really need Crowther to figure that out? It's something we all learned in kindergarten, or from our parents. Be good to each other.

10. Again, she may be a pawn. And that look in her eye is pure craziness, to me. I'm amazed anyone does anything but think, upon meeting her, "She needs professional help."

She is already debunked. The main thing missing is knowing who is behind her, paying quite a bit to promote her. DeArmon? Others?

11. Thanks for the kind words.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Peasant on October 08, 2010, 12:52:09 pm

1. That kind of "prophecy" is not exactly insightful. Almost anyone can see how the US has weakened itself with unneeded wars and wasteful ways of living.

2. We don't know of any evidence as well. Most likely she is a white pretender, or perhaps has very distant ancestry. By her own account on her sites, she has had little contact with her alleged people. No way would they entrust someone so unknowing with an (allegedly) important message.

3. This so called Continental Council of Indigenous Elders is nothing of the sort. It's a fraudulent organization, run by and for frauds. This is them:
http://www.earthworksforhumanity.org/pages/ROTA.shtml

It's Adam DeArmon AKA "Adam Yellowbird's" organization. He's an exploiter and white imposter selling phony ceremonies out of Sedona. We hav threads on him in here. If Krowther thinks he or the others in that group are genuine, then she is very easily fooled.

A young man contacted me some time ago because DeArmon was offering free trips to any elderly Native in his coimmunity in Alaska who would go. He signed his grandpa up because he thought it'd be a chance for him to travel, then backed away once I explained it al to him. Basically DeArmon is using elderly Natives as window dressing. They're not elders at all.

4. That story is bizarre. Among many Native peoples, owl is an omen of bad luck. One attacking you while dying is not something to brag about.

5. She really knows how to tell stories that are emotional and appeal to lost people. That certainly doesn't make her genuine. How you feel about her is not a reliable guide. How do Natives feel about her? We are pretty certain she's as phony as a 3 dollar bill.

6. That's a really strange thing to say. Natives don't go about dressed in regalia every day, anymore than Swedes wear Viking helmets or Germans wear lederhosen. The fact that she felt the need to dress up in regalia just says pretty clearly that she realized, without buckskin, no Europeans would believe she was Indian.

7. That's an important point. Who the heck is behind her? She's frankly not smart enough and doesn't have enough resources to get all these websites and speaking tours up and running this fast. She's only been around a very short time and has easily 100 times more websites devoted to her than a typical imposter. Someone is investing a lot of money and time on her.

Could you ask on that site: who sponsors her? Who builds her sites, and esp who pays for all these sites? And what their motives are. Crowther may be a pawn or puppet.

8. No, it's not Hopi, not even Mayan. The 2012 bit is New Age plus some others out ot make money.

9. It's a nice enough and harmless message, but does anyone really need Crowther to figure that out? It's something we all learned in kindergarten, or from our parents. Be good to each other.

10. Again, she may be a pawn. And that look in her eye is pure craziness, to me. I'm amazed anyone does anything but think, upon meeting her, "She needs professional help."

She is already debunked. The main thing missing is knowing who is behind her, paying quite a bit to promote her. DeArmon? Others?

11. Thanks for the kind words.

1: Indeed... i never really paid a lot of attention to this, it's just something i wanted to set straight so the image of Kiesha Crowther as it is portrayed here is as accurate as possible.

2: Yes, you are right. I just didn't think anyone would have the guts to falsely act as a spokesperson for Native American tribes.

3: Yeah, nobody on the tribeofmanycolors.net forums is able to shed a light on this as well. This is the only reply that was made (though also i got a message from someone who is also reading newagefraud.org):

Quote
I don't know much about the Continental Council of Indigenous Elders. My guess is that it is hard to find because the members are not supposed to be widely known or do not want to be widely known. The Council may do its work more internally, if that is the case, for good reasons. And maybe some people are designated as spokespeople, like Little Grandmother.

If they're not supposed to be widely known, why is their name used to add a sense of credibility to Kiesha Crowther?

4: Seriously?  :-\ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IZcR2_f3bWM&feature=related here she talks about this great horned owl at 05:50. That's very strange to hear...

5: Yes you're right, but like i said, i didn't think anyone would have the guts to lie about being recognized by a native American tribe, and be able to get away with it. I did a search for her when i found her videos but i couldn't find anyone debunking her claims at the time.

6: Indeed, like i said i didn't really know anything about Native American tribes, one thing i knew was that they wear normal every day clothing like everyone else, but these videos of Kiesha Crowther give unknowing outsiders the impression that it's some kind of genuine gathering hosted by a Native American tribe. I did not expect to see someone in full regalia, the thought didn't even cross my mind, but when Kiesha said "i could very much be sitting here in full regalia" and clearly believes it herself, it adds to the impression that she is actually recognized by some established council.

7: I have never heard Kiesha talk about Adam Yellowbird. There's these two people sitting next to her in one of her talks though: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cjVj6b7jC-I at 06:00, there is someone called Priscilla Wolf aka Sister Wolf. And http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pAMtZ-O6sgo&feature=related at 01:30, there's this man called John Kimmey. Other than that, i don't know if anyone is behind her, or who that would be. What i meant in my first message, is that i got the impression that her followers are pressing her to act as a guru... i mean, i've never seen an indication that there's some puppet master behind all this. But i don't know who is promoting and arranging her talks and workshops.

8: I see that now. Found this link about Hopi 'prophecies' if anyone reading this is also interested in that: http://www.esowatch.com/en/index.php?title=Hopi_and_Pseudo_Hopi_Prophecies

9: It's the way this whole message is presented. To people who are not aware of all the impostors and frauds in new-age groups, and/or who are interested in topics discussed in new age/conspiracy theorist movements, it can give the impression that this is for real and that something grand is going on. It felt good to me, and her videos did inspire me to change things in my life for the better. I've quit smoking, stopped eating cheap factory meat, and i spend more time outdoors now... so it's not all bad. Some people just need something to believe in. When i look at all the frauds mentioned in these forums like this White Eagle Medicine Woman, i do think Kiesha Crowther is a somewhat different case... if all her claims about being recognized by Native American people are false, she is very much misguided. Of course, in that case, she is responsible for letting this happen to her. But i do think there is a grain of truth in the things she talks about, albeit mostly derived from other sources.

10: I didn't recognize the look in her eyes as crazy, while i am familiar with people who have mental illnesses.

11: No problem and by the way, if you need more information from me, just ask... :)
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: educatedindian on October 08, 2010, 05:00:19 pm

7: I have never heard Kiesha talk about Adam Yellowbird. There's these two people sitting next to her in one of her talks though: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cjVj6b7jC-I at 06:00, there is someone called Priscilla Wolf aka Sister Wolf. And http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pAMtZ-O6sgo&feature=related at 01:30, there's this man called John Kimmey. Other than that, i don't know if anyone is behind her, or who that would be. What i meant in my first message, is that i got the impression that her followers are pressing her to act as a guru... i mean, i've never seen an indication that there's some puppet master behind all this. But i don't know who is promoting and arranging her talks and workshops.


A search for Priscilla Wolf turns her up at some UFO sites. She says she is Apache/Spanish. Comes across as an eccentric grandmother. I doubt she has the resources.

Now John Kimney OTH, he's an established and dedicated fraud and exploiter of Hopi traditions and ceremony seller, even been warned repeatedly by the Hopi Nation.
http://www.newagefraud.org/smf/index.php?topic=2455.0
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Freija on October 08, 2010, 07:39:56 pm
People over here ask me the same thing: who is behind her?
Someone planned this and set the PR-machine rolling.

I wonder if I can find out who promoted her. She must have "an agent".
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: nemesis on October 08, 2010, 11:02:13 pm
People over here ask me the same thing: who is behind her?
Someone planned this and set the PR-machine rolling.

I wonder if I can find out who promoted her. She must have "an agent".

possibly this allegedly Zurich based organisation?

http://www.crystalsun.ch/en/crystalsun/crystalsun.html

The association aims to promote the CrystalSun practically lived spirituality and the organization and implementation of appropriate events and activities. It is politically, religiously and economically completely independent.

Currently these are the specific activities:

Support and promote the work of Crowther Kiesha - Little Grand Mother
Organizing and conducting seminars with Kiesha Crowther - Little Grand Mother
Support and promote the work and messages of the Ascended Master Lady Rowena
Sponsorship and organization of the WEB SITE http://TribeofManyColors.net (Tribe of Kiesha Crowther - Little Grand Mother) and all activities of this Tribe site - such as text translations
Sponsorship and support of the WEB SITE http://www.SternenCard.ch (an online e-card service, and awareness support to the delight of opening)
Building an online store for media and articles that serve the purpose of the association
Development of the Media - Publishing


So I searched for Lady Rowena and google turned up this

http://www.pathofthemiddleway.org/1/Spiritual%20Hierarchy/Page%205/bladzij%205.htm

So Lady Rowena is a Chohan of the Third Ray.  Or something.

Her incredible superhuman powers do not extend to web design it would appear.

Also another webpage here - this one a little bit less painful on the eyes

http://www.onhi.org/onhi_ascended_ladyrowena.html

this site suggests that Lady Rowena and her chums (the site promotes various ascended masters) are in fact American
Quote
It is interesting that the initial knowledge of these Ascended Masters emerged in the U.S.A. and that the first direct group externalization of them has also appeared in that same country. This is certainly not a co-incidence, and it appears the U.S.A. is the epicenter of their activities on behalf of human freedom from the darkened energetic structure of distorted light. In distortion fields, the higher truth is fragmented and broken down until the truth becomes difficult and too compartmentalized to understand, creating confusion in souls and a darkening of the original light.  blah blah blah

http://www.onhi.org/onhi_ascended.html

I confess that I can only spend so long looking at sites like this before the noxious newage fumes that emanate from the screen make me want to do very bad things, so I will have to leave this one for a little while before I can bear to look again..

From a brief perusal all I can say is that this looks like a rather nasty, well established con for relieving vulnerable people of their worldly goods, but then this will not be a big surprise to anyone here.

I will need to study it for a bit longer in order to confirm my initial feelings, I just don't have the stomach for it right now.  Anyone else please feel free to check it out of course.

Also the http://www.SternenCard.ch site linked to by the crystalsun website appears to a a site selling really horrible newage greeting cars, including one of Lady Rowena here

http://www.sternencard.ch/create.php?card_id=527

also linked to this site

http://www.cosmic-heart.ne

that offers counselling by someone called Veetkam W. Rentsch who "is especially experienced in dealing with trauma and its sequelae (post traumatic stress) and very successful in solving this difficult burden."

http://www.cosmic-heart.net/start/seminarien/trainings/einzelberatungen

The site also sells various spray products for cleansing auras and that kind of thing

http://www.cosmic-heart.net/start/produkte/produkte-2

Just found Veetkam W. Rentsch's  facebook page

http://www.facebook.com/veetkamr?ref=search

His "likes" are interesting, lots of different native and pretendian, newage pages but also a page called True Tantra - Weaving Tantric Sex and Spirituality and also various pages advocating Osho

I confess that I always feel alarm when someone who claims to be a counsellor or psychotherapist is also interested in pseudo-tantra and Osho for obvious reasons

also links to this retreat / resort in Bali

http://www.gaia-oasis.com/gaia_de.html







 
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Freija on October 09, 2010, 08:16:19 am
"Kiesha Crowther, also known as “Little Grandmother”, was initiated as shaman at age 30 by her mother’s tribe (Sioux/Salish), and has been recognized by the Continental Council of Indigenous Elders as Wisdom Keeper for North America. "

For ALL of North America? Impressing!
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: nemesis on October 09, 2010, 09:37:19 am
whois results for the various websites promoting Lady Rowena

Domain ID:D104157876-LROR
Domain Name:ONHI.ORG
Created On:27-Mar-2004 17:06:25 UTC
Last Updated On:22-Oct-2008 22:19:41 UTC
Expiration Date:27-Mar-2014 17:06:25 UTC
Sponsoring Registrar:eNom, Inc. (R39-LROR)
Status:CLIENT TRANSFER PROHIBITED
Registrant ID:abfd5d28f76
Registrant Name:Mark  Kochkodan
Registrant Organization:One World Heart Institute
Registrant Street1:4613 N. University Drive
Registrant Street2:
Registrant Street3:
Registrant City:Coral Springs
Registrant State/Province:FL
Registrant Postal Code:33067
Registrant Country:US
Registrant Phone: [deleted]
Registrant Phone Ext.:
Registrant FAX:
Registrant FAX Ext.:
Registrant Email:
Admin ID:abfd5d28f76
Admin Name:Mark  Kochkodan
Admin Organization:One World Heart Institute
Admin Street1:[deleted]
Admin Street2:
Admin Street3:
Admin City:Coral Springs
Admin State/Province:FL
Admin Postal Code:33067
Admin Country:US
Admin Phone:[deleted]
Admin Phone Ext.:
Admin FAX:
Admin FAX Ext.:
Admin Email:
Tech ID:9A63CD55545EA035
Tech Name:WestHost Hostmaster
Tech Organization:WestHost Inc.
Tech Street1:164 N Spring Creek Pkwy
Tech Street2:
Tech Street3:
Tech City:Providence
Tech State/Province:UT
Tech Postal Code:84332
Tech Country:US
Tech Phone:+1.14357553433
Tech Phone Ext.:
Tech FAX:
Tech FAX Ext.:
Tech Email:
Name Server:NS1.WEST-DATACENTER.NET
Name Server:NS2.WEST-DATACENTER.NET
Name Server:
Name Server:
Name Server:
Name Server:
Name Server:
Name Server:
Name Server:
Name Server:
Name Server:
Name Server:
Name Server:
DNSSEC:Unsigned


this page is also connected

http://sanctuarysupport.blogspot.com/2009/07/new-rose-light-sanctuary-ireland_12.html

so they are in Ireland also.

They look as  though they are quite a large network.  I would advise extreme caution and the use of proxy servers while checking out their various websites. 

from the Latest News page
Quote
The One World Heart Institute website provides Transform- ational Planetary News on the ever-expanding Aquarian spi- rituality free of charge from Avatara Emanuella, and the Aquarian Ascended Masters in manifestation in the plane of matter. Your donations are vitally needed to assist us in bringing forth this spiritual awareness to humanity, and in our continuing efforts to expand this new transform- ational planetary awakening. Our heart’s hope is to someday have our own Holistic Ascen- sion Center for spiritual heal- ing and enlightened education for all. Every dollar counts!!!

http://www.onhi.org/onhi_rose_flame.html

verah spirchul!


interesting photo gallery ostensibly of ascended masters here

http://www.onhi.org/onhi-photo-gallery/1/med/ascended1.htm

[phone and address deleted for privacy request]
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: educatedindian on October 09, 2010, 12:55:16 pm
They seem to be referring to Rowena of the King Arthur stories. To her she's one of their ascended types in their mishmash of Buddhism and beliefs about angels.

Mark Kockkodan of One World Heart Institute is listed as a masseuse in Coral Galbes FL.

http://www.onhi.org/onhi_avatar_tribute2.html
Mark Kochkodan is a life extension of the Ascended Master Lord Lanto....

http://www.corporationwiki.com/Florida/Coral-Springs/mark-kochkodan-P5547044.aspx
 Mark Kochkodan
(view profile)
Related People:
Jannine Leist
Linda Mescher
Related Companies:
One World Heart Institute, Inc.
 Possible Related Companies:
Heartnet, Inc.

One World Heart Institute Inc
http://www.corporationwiki.com/Florida/Coral-Springs/one-world-heart-institute-inc-2214041.aspx
Incorporated by Jannine Leist, Linda Mescher, Mark Kochkodan, One World Heart Institute, Inc. is located at 4613 N University Dr # 469 Pompano Beach, FL 33067. One World Heart Institute, Inc. was incorporated on Thursday, May 27, 2004 in the State of FL and is currently active. Linda Mescher represents One World Heart Institute, Inc. as their registered agent.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: nemesis on October 09, 2010, 07:09:42 pm
They seem to be referring to Rowena of the King Arthur stories. To her she's one of their ascended types in their mishmash of Buddhism and beliefs about angels.

I did wonder about who Lady Rowena was as there are loads of videos on youtube about ascended masters, many featuring Lady Rowina.  Some of them may be linked to this network, some may be some other nuage thing.  It may be that it's a bit like the whole Lightworkers and Indigo Children thing, concepts that are used by all kinds of nuage groups.

However I did notice a rather comical photo gallery, Lady Rowenas Spiritual Reunion here:
http://www.onhi.org/onhi-photo-gallery/4/med/Lady_Rowenas_Spiritual_Reunion_002__21_.htm

This photo of some of the people who pop up in the various galleries on these sites is interesting to me as it shows how much they like dressing up, almost fancy dress. 
http://www.onhi.org/onhi-photo-gallery/4/lg/Lady_Rowenas_Spiritual_Reunion_002__15_.htm
 
This photo is similar, they all look very odd indeed

http://www.onhi.org/onhi-photo-gallery/1/med/ascended12.htm

another website linked to this network is here

http://www.akashaonline.com/index.php

also here

http://www.theiamfamilyoflight.com/

facebook page here

http://www.facebook.com/pages/Ascended-Masters-Gifts/339530624234?ref=sgm

The more I look at this the more I think that this is quite a large network operating internationally


Quote
The “I AM” are two deeply significant words that speak of our eternal consciousness.

Christarose Vallucha Freeborough
Event founder and producer

another individual involved in this

http://www.facebook.com/edwin.courtenay

the link is here

http://www.paradigmshiftmagazine.com/html/issue_29.html

issue 20 of paradigm shift magazine
Quote
The I Am Family of Light - Christarose Freeborough, Edwin Courtenay, Akasha-Rose Emmanuel


also this
Quote
"The I AM FAMILY of LIGHT"
England - October 27th & 28th
AMAZINGLY UPLIFTING and POWERFUL!

Without a doubt, The I AM Family of Light® gathering is a unique two day event on the international calendar offering people the opportunity to come together within a safe, sacred space so that they may open their hearts and allow themselves to be transformed as they come into an ever deepening recognition of the Eternal Light, Love and Divine Wisdom within. The Gathering of the Crystal Cups of Light programme will feature incredible messages of divine wisdom and guidance from the Lord Melchizedek through Edwin Courtenay (UK) , The Queen of Light and Venus Kumara through Akasha-Rose Emmanuel (Australia) , Akasha and Asun through Craig Russel (Canada) and the Star Elders through Aluna Joy (SEDONA) – all leading luminaries and Messengers of the Light. In addition you will hear uplifting music and songs of inspiration from gifted singers and songwriters including Denise Hagan (Ireland) , Omashar (Hawaii) , Paul Armitage (Canada) and Melanie Gerard (UK) , and for an added touch of joy you will see the Goddess in dance by Solariss (UK). All extremely exciting. Needless to say, because of this year's wonderful programme there is much interest so I would suggest booking early to secure a seat and benefit from the early bird discount (paid by 30th April). This is a conference style weekend format and the venue is once again the peaceful Ramada Hotel in Maidstone, Kent now undergoing major refurbishments in good time for October. Space is limited. So sign up early for the gathering.

Say ALUNA JOY sent you, and we will send you a free bottle of I AM Blessing Water Essence. Sign up here: http://www.theiamfamilyoflight.com/welcome.htm


Read more: http://blogs.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.view&friendId=13228926&blogId=274495314#ixzz11tEqkgEi

source:
http://blogs.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.view&friendId=13228926&blogId=274495314


Please note the emphasis on "I AM" on these websites and also on Kiesha Crowther's site
Quote
Blah, blah, blah, Her powerful message emphasizes how to shift individual and planetary consciousness, how to live in the heart in right relationship with Mother Earth, and to remember who we are--THE GREAT I AM.


http://littlegrandmother.net/BIO.aspx






Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: nemesis on October 09, 2010, 07:17:24 pm
Also Crowther's website was created and designed by Betsey Lewis of RNBMediaGroup.com

http://rnbmediagroup.com/aboutus.aspx


Quote
We are the Rainbow Tribe here to change our planet through truth, love, joy, healing, forgiveness, kindness, and compassion.   Our future is seeded in the coming months with the choices we make NOW.
  
We must stop the insanity of drilling for oil in the ocean depths, dumping pesticides into rivers which flow to the oceans, polluting our air, our food, slaughtering animals without compassion and killing each other in senseless wars.  If we do not change and make the shift in values by realizing that without Mother Earth we would not be here, then our planet will bring about her own cleansing , balance and order once again.  There is the possibility that many people could leave the planet within a few short hours.  So what is your responsibility?   To honor and love yourself and love earth, the animals, the plant life, and all people--for we are all connected.  Can you imagine oil drillers giving thanks and prayers before drilling for Mother Earth's precious blood--oil?  What a difference life would be if we lived in harmony with our wondrous planet.
  
My non-fiction book, ANGELS, ALIENS & PROPHECY, will be available May 2011.  The book covers ancient aliens and the evidence that angels and aliens are linked and the prophectic messages they keep telling abductees.  Also, I cover what may have been my own UFO abductions through the years as well as my parents UFO encounter on a lonely road in northwestern Idaho late at night in the 1950s.  In 1985, renowned author & MUFON Investigator, Ann Druffel, hypnotized my mom and me, regressing us to that frightening night in northwestern Idaho.  What we revealed under hypnosis was mind-boggling.    

Enjoy the website and the various information I've posted.  Be sure to check out my Calendar of Events page for current live and archived Rainbow Visions Shows with some very special guests.

 Sending  Love and Light to all,
Betsey Lewis

Talk Radio Host , Author, Psychic & Ghostwriter/Editor

http://betseylewis.com/default.aspx

also

http://www.facebook.com/betseyjlewis


Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Peasant on October 10, 2010, 01:33:13 pm

possibly this allegedly Zurich based organisation?

http://www.crystalsun.ch/en/crystalsun/crystalsun.html

The association aims to promote the CrystalSun practically lived spirituality and the organization and implementation of appropriate events and activities. It is politically, religiously and economically completely independent.

Currently these are the specific activities:

Support and promote the work of Crowther Kiesha - Little Grand Mother
Organizing and conducting seminars with Kiesha Crowther - Little Grand Mother
Support and promote the work and messages of the Ascended Master Lady Rowena
Sponsorship and organization of the WEB SITE http://TribeofManyColors.net (Tribe of Kiesha Crowther - Little Grand Mother) and all activities of this Tribe site - such as text translations
Sponsorship and support of the WEB SITE http://www.SternenCard.ch (an online e-card service, and awareness support to the delight of opening)
Building an online store for media and articles that serve the purpose of the association
Development of the Media - Publishing
 

This is the European man that also voluntarily made the tribeofmanycolors.net website after he found the videos. He's putting a lot of time into the website and he's probably paying for the website hosting + domain as well. I am very certain that he is not a conman, he really believes everything Kiesha Crowther says, and apparently felt the need to promote her message by making the tribeofmanycolors.net website.




Also Crowther's website was created and designed by Betsey Lewis of RNBMediaGroup.com

http://rnbmediagroup.com/aboutus.aspx

-

http://betseylewis.com/default.aspx

also

http://www.facebook.com/betseyjlewis

This woman has conducted some interviews with Kiesha Crowther through her blogtalkradio.com station. She appears to be very much into new-age stuff and prone to believe a lot. Again, to me it seems like she believes everything Kiesha Crowther says and felt the need to promote her for free.



Kiesha Crowther's videos are often posted on 'alternative news' websites and Facebook. To me it appears like 9 out of 10 people who know about her, found her videos on Youtube or found a link to those videos on such a website. I have never seen advertisements or anything in my country. I don't know about this John Kimmey but i think almost all people who are involved in organizing her events and promotion believe they're on a spiritual mission and contribute for free.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: nemesis on October 10, 2010, 05:14:09 pm

possibly this allegedly Zurich based organisation?

http://www.crystalsun.ch/en/crystalsun/crystalsun.html

The association aims to promote the CrystalSun practically lived spirituality and the organization and implementation of appropriate events and activities. It is politically, religiously and economically completely independent.

Currently these are the specific activities:

Support and promote the work of Crowther Kiesha - Little Grand Mother
Organizing and conducting seminars with Kiesha Crowther - Little Grand Mother
Support and promote the work and messages of the Ascended Master Lady Rowena
Sponsorship and organization of the WEB SITE http://TribeofManyColors.net (Tribe of Kiesha Crowther - Little Grand Mother) and all activities of this Tribe site - such as text translations
Sponsorship and support of the WEB SITE http://www.SternenCard.ch (an online e-card service, and awareness support to the delight of opening)
Building an online store for media and articles that serve the purpose of the association
Development of the Media - Publishing
 

This is the European man that also voluntarily made the tribeofmanycolors.net website after he found the videos. He's putting a lot of time into the website and he's probably paying for the website hosting + domain as well. I am very certain that he is not a conman, he really believes everything Kiesha Crowther says, and apparently felt the need to promote her message by making the tribeofmanycolors.net website.


Thanks for the clarification Crescent.  

It sounds as though you know this man personally, is that right?

If your impression of him is right may also be exploited by the newage people on the other very bizarre websites that he created regarding "ascended masters"

Whois suggests that his name is Veetkam W. Rentsch

There is a page about him here on a website devoted to followers of Osho

http://www.sannyas.org/index.php?title=Sw_Dhyan_Veetkam

He appears to be the same person who is an Osho influenced therapist mentioned earlier in this thread.

IMO it is entirely possible that someone who was taken in by the whole Osho thing could also be vulnerable to being exploited by others.  

Many of the original orange people were worked like slaves, in fact they were effectively enslaved, at the Big Muddy site in Oregon.  Cults have a long and ignoble tradition of exploiting member as slaves or just as unpaid labour.  There can be a thin line between voluntary work for the good of the community and enslavement.

I do wonder whether the Keisha Crowther and Ascended Masters people have some connection other than that this man does web design and promotional work for both.  Both are quite upfront and cheeky about soliciting donations, but that is hardly a surprising thing in the newage world.    I will give this some further thought.


Also Crowther's website was created and designed by Betsey Lewis of RNBMediaGroup.com

http://rnbmediagroup.com/aboutus.aspx

-

http://betseylewis.com/default.aspx

also

http://www.facebook.com/betseyjlewis

This woman has conducted some interviews with Kiesha Crowther through her blogtalkradio.com station. She appears to be very much into new-age stuff and prone to believe a lot. Again, to me it seems like she believes everything Kiesha Crowther says and felt the need to promote her for free.



Kiesha Crowther's videos are often posted on alternative news websites and the like. For example the conspiracy/new-age/pseudoscience news website www.niburu.nl has posted her videos a couple times. To me it appears like 9 out of 10 people who know about her, found her videos on Youtube or found a link to those videos on such a website. I have never seen advertisements or anything in my country. I don't know about this John Kimmey but i think almost all people who are involved in organizing her events and promotion believe they're on a spiritual mission and contribute for free.

If this is so, and it sounds credible to me, then it still begs the question of whether she has created this alone by exploiting others or whether she is backed by some other organisation or individual.  
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Ashla on October 11, 2010, 01:50:44 pm
Kiesha Crowther has spoken in her own videos about how the "elders of the Salish" tribe, are the ones who made her "shaman over the Salish tribe". Those are her words, not mine. No one in the Flathead knows of this woman. I have spent some time asking and I even got a few laughs. She has also laid claim to Sioux, as so many white new age peddlers do. I recorded the youtube video's on my little camera and took copies to some of the elders here, and they watched them and were disgusted, truly. So here's my advice to anyone looking to verify her claims to Salish and Sioux, call the tribal office and ask them about her and her mother. We can't even verify the mother, as she has not given a name so that anyone can trace her lineage.

So if no one Salish up here knows who Kiesha Crowther, "shaman over the Salish tribe", then tell me who is Kiesha? She is a con artist, like so many others who have come before her. For example, the white woman Lynn Andrews who has written multiple books laying claim to teachings from women who don't exist, then charging grandiose amounts of money to take women to Joshua Tree and teach them shamanism. Kiesha has probably seen how well a white woman can do for herself if she can convince people that she's been annointed by someone important.

Kiesha seems to have alot of people in other countries fooled. Read through the youtube commentary, which is mostly made up by those living outside of the U.S. Most new age peddlers and pretenders like to don their regalia and tour foreign countries playing ndn, because the people are so starved for their indian experience they will pay precious money to get it. This whole thing has sickened me. You cannot stop a con artist in another country, where she has paying fools that believe in her.

So far, from what I understand, Kiesha used to live in Colorado. She was married and had two children. She left her husband and her babies to go off into the world and play white lady shaman. Let me make this clear, she abandoned those children. They no longer have their mother because she has told the people there in Co that "this is her mission and her calling". If that story of the owl is truth, then she should have seen that the owl was telling her to stay home and do not abandon her family this way.

She's charging people for these "spiritual teachings" that she has read every where else on the internet or in books. Read a Lynn Andrews book. She copies the woman's style. I would not be surprised at all to find that Kiesha was a student of Lynn Andrews. You can google Lynn and see what exorbitant amounts of money she charges to teach women how to be a white pretender. It's sad. You can't make someone ndn. You cannot steal from the culture and lie, and twist it to fit what you want to teach others.

Kiesha has literally stolen her titles, and has fabricated her story about becoming shaman over the Salish tribe.

I say the woman is in need of prayers. Any woman who would desert her childen to come into the world to live a lie is not waking in truth and must have some serious problems going on. She's lost touch with who she is, and has clung to a lie to feel better in her life.

I have no desire to bash her but I will stand up and say that stealing from the Salish and claiming to be made a shaman is dead wrong, and she will have to account for those lies eventually. What will Kiesha do should the elders show up to one of the seminars she charges for to ask her of her claims?

I see that Kiesha has closed off her facebook from the public eye and now you must friend her in order to read there. She probably feels closed in on, as I am certain she has read this forum and knows that people are catching on to her.

Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: educatedindian on October 12, 2010, 01:53:16 pm

So far, from what I understand, Kiesha used to live in Colorado. She was married and had two children. She left her husband and her babies to go off into the world and play white lady shaman. Let me make this clear, she abandoned those children. They no longer have their mother because she has told the people there in Co that "this is her mission and her calling". If that story of the owl is truth, then she should have seen that the owl was telling her to stay home and do not abandon her family this way....

I say the woman is in need of prayers. Any woman who would desert her childen to come into the world to live a lie is not waking in truth and must have some serious problems going on. She's lost touch with who she is, and has clung to a lie to feel better in her life....


This to me seems a clear sign of mental illness, of needing professional mental health help. It's like a person claiming to be Napoleon and going off to convince the world he's their emperor, leaving their family behind.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: nemesis on October 12, 2010, 04:03:58 pm

This to me seems a clear sign of mental illness, of needing professional mental health help. It's like a person claiming to be Napoleon and going off to convince the world he's their emperor, leaving their family behind.

The really sad thing is that thousands of people actually believe this fantasy. 

I think it it probably true that sometimes people become cult leaders because large groups of people want them to be cult leaders and that the psychopathy of the leader neatly pigeon-holes into the needs of the masses.

While it is useful to be curious about Crowther and to seek answers as to how she got where she is, it is equally important to wonder about the motives of the many people who idealise her.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: critter - a white non-ndn person on October 12, 2010, 04:34:28 pm
Well, I tend to think it's that the world is in such a sad shape that people are literally clawing to find something that is better.. I think people flock to ndn's because it is perceived they have better moral standards in how to treat other human beings along with having a better connection to Earth and Spirit.  People think this.. and so want it because honestly.. today's world is so brutal and cold, intolerant and hateful.  I think this is also the basis for the New Age... however, all those 'new age' philosophies are just mind food, meaning, there is no foundation underneath .. and if you ever have the opportunity to have a conflict with a new ager.. they just turn on you.. so.. so much for their 'new age' mind set that isn't real.. 

but this is off topic... sorry.. just replying to nemesis
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Freija on October 12, 2010, 04:43:26 pm
I am passing on the information and it is finding its way to organisers over here, booking Kiesha.
But the sad thing - pretty much like Nemesis says - is that people do not care!!

No matter how much evidence you give them for this woman being a fraud, they continue to worship her.
I try to explain the harm it does to genuine Ndn communities, giving people here some kind of fantasyimage of Native Americans.
Noone cares....

The bottom line is: this kind of movement attracts people who want to satisfy their own needs of being special, the chosen ones. No matter if it is on behalf of other people OR if it is all based on lies. There have been numerous mentally disturbed leaders around leading the masses over a cliff....

I am still curious of how Kiesha "rose to fame" this fast although I guess it´s just a matter of making some websites, promotionmaterial, and then contacting the fraudmagnetorganisations over here in Europe. I think it is pretty easy, actually....
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Defend the Sacred on October 12, 2010, 04:47:15 pm
I think people flock to ndn's because it is perceived they have better moral standards in how to treat other human beings along with having a better connection to Earth and Spirit.

In Crowther's case, and in many we see on here, the non-NDN seekers have ridiculous fantasies about NDNs based on newage books and hollywood stereotypes. If they even attempt to interact with real NDNs, they usually find they don't want the reality of whole, complex people, living in whole, complex communities... and even "worse", communities that have standards and protocols that conflict with their fantasies of being able to buy access to "teachings" and ceremonies. I think usually the non-NDN seekers are so racist they don't even try to meet real NDNs. I think they are overjoyed when an obviously white person comes along and claims to have the goods they want to buy. I think they willingly buy into the delusion that the white person is NDN because otherwise they would have to face their racism, their selfishness, their consumerism. But buying into the delusion gives them a way to avoid responsibility, accountability, and the harsh reality that if they tried to get these things from an actual, authorized NDN ceremonial leader, they would be told, "No."
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: critter - a white non-ndn person on October 12, 2010, 04:53:41 pm
I agree wholly Kathryn and Freija.. it is a multi-layered problem.

I think Kiesha rose fast because she started on Youtube with free videos.  And MANY of the needy-vulnerable who succumb to such fantasies cannot afford the high prices.. so anything they can find for free is going to be spread fast among many.  Once it starts spreading fast.. someone else with profit in mind is going to pick it up and start making money.. so I am not surprised she is being now sought by those who put on these shows for a buck..


Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Peasant on October 14, 2010, 05:17:18 pm

This is the European man that also voluntarily made the tribeofmanycolors.net website after he found the videos. He's putting a lot of time into the website and he's probably paying for the website hosting + domain as well. I am very certain that he is not a conman, he really believes everything Kiesha Crowther says, and apparently felt the need to promote her message by making the tribeofmanycolors.net website.

Thanks for the clarification Crescent. 

It sounds as though you know this man personally, is that right?

Nope, i've never met him in real life, but i had some email and forum conversations with him.

-

So far, from what I understand, Kiesha used to live in Colorado. She was married and had two children. She left her husband and her babies to go off into the world and play white lady shaman. Let me make this clear, she abandoned those children. They no longer have their mother because she has told the people there in Co that "this is her mission and her calling". If that story of the owl is truth, then she should have seen that the owl was telling her to stay home and do not abandon her family this way.

I have to say that this is not the case, i recall Kiesha made a Facebook post a few months ago where she mentions her kids, here it is:

Quote
Kiesha Crowther  I was on my way with my two children to a friends house to have dinner and we actually drove threw the image of the rainbow right in front of us on the highway.. Ive never saw anything like it before.. the kids were so excited that they couldn't even speak lol.. it was so beautiful.. mother nature sure is amazing isnt she?
01 August at 20:24

I do not know if she is living with her husband and children but apparently she has at least not abandoned her children.

-

I am passing on the information and it is finding its way to organisers over here, booking Kiesha.
But the sad thing - pretty much like Nemesis says - is that people do not care!!

No matter how much evidence you give them for this woman being a fraud, they continue to worship her.

Very true... free speech is also not promoted at the forums on tribeofmanycolors.net. Several people have posted questions to Kiesha Crowther's claims including me and these topics got either deleted if they contained important facts, or locked if innocent questions had been asked. No one was able to provide proof of her claims by the way.

-

In Crowther's case, and in many we see on here, the non-NDN seekers have ridiculous fantasies about NDNs based on newage books and hollywood stereotypes. If they even attempt to interact with real NDNs, they usually find they don't want the reality of whole, complex people, living in whole, complex communities... and even "worse", communities that have standards and protocols that conflict with their fantasies of being able to buy access to "teachings" and ceremonies. I think usually the non-NDN seekers are so racist they don't even try to meet real NDNs. I think they are overjoyed when an obviously white person comes along and claims to have the goods they want to buy. I think they willingly buy into the delusion that the white person is NDN because otherwise they would have to face their racism, their selfishness, their consumerism. But buying into the delusion gives them a way to avoid responsibility, accountability, and the harsh reality that if they tried to get these things from an actual, authorized NDN ceremonial leader, they would be told, "No."

Sorry but i think you're exaggerating here. I'm very much against racism and i had no such fantasies of NDNs living their every day lives like this. I just didn't know much about Native American spirituality and this seemed like some sort of authentic spiritual gathering. All this talk about how Kiesha Crowther was made shaman for the Sioux/Salish, names that i had heard before, made it sound convincing. The thought didn't occur to me that people would make these credentials up, and that they could get away with it and post these videos on Youtube without getting criticized (when i found her videos about half a year ago, i did a search on message boards like this one and i could find no one debunking her claims at the time). And as she said that she had a white father and a Salish mother, i just thought that she got more of her father's looks.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Defend the Sacred on October 14, 2010, 05:42:37 pm
Hi Crescent, I said that in my opinion "many" seekers have these racist fantasies. "Many", not "all".  If it doesn't apply to you, please don't take it personally :-)

I am glad you are here helping us do research, and helping alert others to what goes on in Crowther's groups. I am glad you saw through Crowther's lies and came here to find out more and also to help others know what's going on over there. Your information is very helpful and I intended no offense to you. I apologize if you thought I was criticizing you personally.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Peasant on October 14, 2010, 07:34:02 pm
Hi Crescent, I said that in my opinion "many" seekers have these racist fantasies. "Many", not "all".  If it doesn't apply to you, please don't take it personally :-)

I am glad you are here helping us do research, and helping alert others to what goes on in Crowther's groups. I am glad you saw through Crowther's lies and came here to find out more and also to help others know what's going on over there. Your information is very helpful and I intended no offense to you. I apologize if you thought I was criticizing you personally.

It's ok, i didn't think you were criticizing me personally, it's just that many of these people who are watching her videos are really nice people, often they have been through a lot and are looking for some way to make sense of it all. I think many of them got taken in by these claims of tribal recognition as well. Though of course many haven't looked for criticism, especially the ones that have 'joined the club' recently (as it's easy to find criticism now). But i don't understand how that makes them racist.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: nemesis on October 15, 2010, 05:14:07 pm
Hi Crescent, I said that in my opinion "many" seekers have these racist fantasies. "Many", not "all".  If it doesn't apply to you, please don't take it personally :-)

I am glad you are here helping us do research, and helping alert others to what goes on in Crowther's groups. I am glad you saw through Crowther's lies and came here to find out more and also to help others know what's going on over there. Your information is very helpful and I intended no offense to you. I apologize if you thought I was criticizing you personally.

It's ok, i didn't think you were criticizing me personally, it's just that many of these people who are watching her videos are really nice people, often they have been through a lot and are looking for some way to make sense of it all. I think many of them got taken in by these claims of tribal recognition as well. Though of course many haven't looked for criticism, especially the ones that have 'joined the club' recently (as it's easy to find criticism now). But i don't understand how that makes them racist.

I suppose it depends on how you define racism doesn't it?

IMO racism is not restricted to people in pointy white hats who burn crosses in people's gardens or any of the more obvious forms of racism.

Some of the most destructive and hurtful types of racism are relatively subtle, unconscious and commonly held projections, endorsed by the dominating culture.

Just for example, the "noble savage" and the closely related "magical negro", stereotypes relate to both idealised and denigrated elements of the white collective unconscious that are commonly projected onto NDNs and Africans respectively.

One of the most hurtful aspects of these projections is that - possibly due to the idealised elements of the projections and also their unconscious nature - white people are usually oblivious to the racism inherent in them.   

People often feel extremely defensive about this when challenged IME.  This is possibly because, as well as all the other things it can be, racism is often considered to be the worst thing that a person can be accused of.

Just sharing some thoughts.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Freija on October 15, 2010, 05:55:46 pm
Well said, Nemesis!
Unless we acknowledge the racist views/stereotypes we base our perceptions on, we can not take the first step to change them.

Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Defend the Sacred on October 15, 2010, 06:30:50 pm
IMO racism is not restricted to people in pointy white hats who burn crosses in people's gardens or any of the more obvious forms of racism.

Some of the most destructive and hurtful types of racism are relatively subtle, unconscious and commonly held projections, endorsed by the dominating culture.

Just for example, the "noble savage" and the closely related "magical negro", stereotypes relate to both idealised and denigrated elements of the white collective unconscious that are commonly projected onto NDNs and Africans respectively.

One of the most hurtful aspects of these projections is that - possibly due to the idealised elements of the projections and also their unconscious nature - white people are usually oblivious to the racism inherent in them.   

People often feel extremely defensive about this when challenged IME.  This is possibly because, as well as all the other things it can be, racism is often considered to be the worst thing that a person can be accused of.

In my opinion as well. This is the type of racism I was referring to: more subtle, usually unconscious, but far more prevalent than the obvious  racism of the cross burners. Thank you for articulating it, Nemesis.

Per usual, linkage: "The Do's and Don'ts of Being a Good Ally"
http://www.newagefraud.org/smf/index.php?topic=2365.0

and: "For Those Who Recently Discovered Indian Ancestry"
http://www.newagefraud.org/smf/index.php?topic=1048.0
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: nemesis on October 15, 2010, 07:09:22 pm
I just wanted to share an embarrassing fact about myself.

When I was a teenager I genuinely believed that Asian people who wore gowns and turbans were deeply spiritual and had access to all kinds of mysterious and arcane knowledge.

I grew up in a boring suburban town where most people were preoccupied with making money during the week and getting drunk at weekends.  I desperately wanted something "more" and felt that it must exist somewhere "other" than the place I knew as home.  Asian people were "other" and seemed mysterious to me and so were a perfect repository for my fantasies.

I was not a "bad" person as a teen.  I was not conscious of any racism towards Asian people, and yet I possessed a cherished fantasy of Asians generally and ancient Egyptians in particular as being wise, mysterious and spiritual.

This fantasy ended up getting me into some troubling situations, one of which was a very rude awakening indeed.

In retrospect my fantasy was racist, not in a cross burning way, but in a way where an actual human being or group of human beings were perceived by me as objects in my internal fantasy world, not as real people.

I do think that these kinds of projections are part of the human condition.  I do not think that is especially helpful to beat ourselves up about them, but it is important to acknowledge them and to be willing to explore our feelings in the respect.  To deny this tendency in ourselves and to resist exploring our unconscious fantasies in this way is to condemn the people on the receiving end to much hurt and pain and even mental illness as their traumatic experiences of racism are dismissed as if they are unreal, and they are the ones with the distorted fantasies.   



Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Peasant on October 15, 2010, 07:26:27 pm
Hmm, i understand what you mean now, thanks for the clarification. I've never seen the word 'racism' used in that way before, and still think it's not the most fitting, but i guess this is indeed a difference in how we personally define it, and how it is used in different countries. Yes, some of Kiesha Crowther's followers are very much like that and i probably had a bit of this fantasy image as well.

I've sent a message about her to this website, asking if they can give advice about the matter:
http://www.lakota.nl/english.html
Seems like a trustworthy resource.

Edit: I've just received this reply from them (translated):

"Thank you for the information. I've heard the name before, but didn't know that she's also coming to speak in our country. These videos look very suspicious. Unfortunately no people are involved in collecting evidence about this matter at the moment. There was a Cherokee woman in Belgium, but she's quit doing this because of all the negative responses. I also wouldn't know anyone from the Lakota who could take action. The communities aren't so small that everyone knows each other, so it's very possible that people there don't even know about her."
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Superdog on October 18, 2010, 07:22:59 pm
There's currently a response to this thread from the tribeofmanycolors website owner here:

http://www.tribeofmanycolors.net/news-and-urgent-messages/response-to-misinformation-on-the-web.html

It makes the attempt to explain her legitimacy and distance Crowther from claims that she's a Sioux or Salish shaman, but in fact a "Native American shaman" and then goes on to explain why this is more correct.  Sadly it does so with truly flawed logic.

While I'm sure her followers would more than likely take this information at face value, it disregards many of the things that she does and claims that is considered most offensive and then goes a step further and claim that Hopi, Inuit and Cherokee elders (among other tribes) recognize her claims as well.

Don't have much time to comment further, but I can bet there will be people here that will have plenty to say.

Superdog
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: critter - a white non-ndn person on October 18, 2010, 08:14:39 pm
well, since she tells people "as I always have asked, and do not judge without
educating yourself on what is really being said and done" Hopefully then, they will
all come here and read what is really being said..

as always, when questions arise and there is no valid legitimacy to a claim, then it
is deemed as 'negative' to look further and try to uncover the truth.

Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Peasant on October 18, 2010, 10:13:14 pm
There's currently a response to this thread from the tribeofmanycolors website owner here:

http://www.tribeofmanycolors.net/news-and-urgent-messages/response-to-misinformation-on-the-web.html

It makes the attempt to explain her legitimacy and distance Crowther from claims that she's a Sioux or Salish shaman...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VocJYC-_u4M
First 10 seconds.  ::)

This 'Urgent Message' response is not from the website owner, the first little part is written by Kiesha Crowther and the other part is made by an anonymous writer, i don't know who it is. I think this person also writes the other 'Urgent Messages'. It's not the website owner though, his style of writing is very unique, i would recognize it.

-


While I'm sure her followers would more than likely take this information at face value...


Yes, many will. I've just read it... to someone who wants to believe, it will probably sound 100% accurate and true.

Again, these elders and particular tribes are never named. Readers are advised to listen to what their heart tells them. An attempt is made to discredit NAFPS based on topics present about Adam Yellowbird and Drunvalo Melchizedek, which they apparently perceive as completely truthful people. Even the thread on the Thirteen Indigenous Grandmothers is mentioned, even though it's in the 'research needed' forum. All the good work people here have done at exposing fake ceremony sellers and impostors, and all the credible websites, people and groups that cooperate with NAFPS or use it for information, are left out of the loop (http://www.newagefraud.org/smf/index.php?topic=1235.0). Basically NAFPS is portrayed as one of the evils of the internet. It feels like a low blow to me. How convenient to mention this 'non-native shaman' story now... fact of the matter is; Kiesha's talks, workshops and interviews have been advertised with this "shaman for the Flathead reservation tribe of the Sioux and Salish" story, many many times. This is very misleading.

I don't know Yellowbird but i do have some of Melchizedek's books, i think he does have some credible & unique knowledge and theories but also lots of really wild and ridiculous fantasies (like teaching Thoth - the Egyptian god of the moon, magic, the calendar, literacy and wisdom - his personal meditation technique). Before calling himself Drunvalo Melchizedek he called himself Akbar... strange story. I'm pretty certain he's as human as anyone else and from my experience, his meditation technique is not really superior to basic relaxing and being still. I haven't read the thread about him yet, i'm curious as to what people here at NAFPS think about him. Anyway, back on topic.

[A little notice - skeptics may frown upon what i say now but i consider this a truth, and i'm posting this in hope that someone who is active on tribeofmanycolors.net will read this] I do believe Kiesha Crowther may indeed have a good intuition/certain abilities. For example she may very well have been speaking a language she otherwise couldn't speak. Fact of the matter is, during transpersonal regression therapy sessions, this stuff happens quite often. I can imagine that the trance-like state she must be in when receiving supposed messages from the other side must be very similar to, if not the same as, a regression trance. To me it isn't even that special anymore. This occurrence, if it really happened, is not supposed to be used as a yardstick for truth, and especially not to be used as proof of 'the good side'. It can originate from anywhere and from what i've learned so far with regression therapy, most of the time it occurs there, it isn't something good.

-


as always, when questions arise and there is no valid legitimacy to a claim, then it
is deemed as 'negative' to look further and try to uncover the truth.


Yes, i am now considered to be a bringer of low energy.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Lodro on October 18, 2010, 11:53:46 pm
I've sent a message through her site's contact form:

Quote
In a statement on this website, it is said that Kiesha Crowther was recognized as a shaman by "the lamas of Nepal and Tibet". Is it possible to let me know who these lamas would be? I might know some of them personally, and lineage is of the utmost important in the vajrayana tradition, so it would be a great help and a great gift to know who these teachers are. Thank you so much
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Lodro on October 19, 2010, 05:03:05 am
Well, I received word that she has been "recognized as a shaman" by Lakha Lama. She claims he was, or is, from the village of Makram, in Tibet, however, Lakaha Lama has been living in Sweden since 1976, according by his Facebook page. And this may be hs ow she knows is, as she has been in Sweden giving teachings in the course of this year. I've written to the person who admins his group on Facebook, to confirm to me that Lama has, indeed, recognized her in some way, as a Shaman.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: C_from_Wpg on October 19, 2010, 08:28:28 pm

Quote
I have to say that this is not the case, i recall Kiesha made a Facebook post a few months ago where she mentions her kids, here it is:

Quote
Kiesha Crowther  I was on my way with my two children to a friends house to have dinner and we actually drove threw the image of the rainbow right in front of us on the highway.. Ive never saw anything like it before.. the kids were so excited that they couldn't even speak lol.. it was so beautiful.. mother nature sure is amazing isnt she?
01 August at 20:24

I do not know if she is living with her husband and children but apparently she has at least not abandoned her children.

I've bolded the part that struck me when I first read it.  It is not possible to drive through the image of a rainbow.  If you walk (or drive) towards a rainbow, the sun will be behind you and the rainbow will appear to move into the distance ahead of you.  More info (from the Wikipedia entry on rainbows):

Quote
A rainbow does not actually exist at a particular location in the sky. Its apparent position depends on the observer's location and the position of the Sun. All raindrops refract and reflect the sunlight in the same way, but only the light from some raindrops reaches the observer's eye. This light is what constitutes the rainbow for that observer. The position of a rainbow in the sky is always in the opposite direction of the Sun with respect to the observer, and the interior is always slightly brighter than the exterior.

My post might be seen as nit-picking by some, but the "driving through the rainbow" story is one more strike against her credibility.

I've read this entire thread and I've looked at most of what is linked to.  It sure looks like Crowther is being exploited.  I hope her children are safe, wherever they are.


Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: educatedindian on October 19, 2010, 10:40:28 pm
I'd say her credibility is shot every time she calls herself "Sioux" (the colonial term that no actual Lakota would use) or claims that there is such a thing as a "Sioux Salish tribe."

I'd say her credibility is much more shot by her blatant lies in that message defending herself.

"she has been recognized as shaman of the “Tribe of Many Colors” by the spiritual elders of many indigenous tribes and peoples including the Cherokee, the Cheyenne, the Hopi, the Inuit, the Aboriginal people, the Waitaha, the Maori, the Maya, the Zulu, as well as the lamas of Nepal and Tibet. Gifts and medicine from these peoples began coming soon after she was initiated as shaman at age 30"

Then why can't she name even one alleged elder who supposedly supports her? All she can name is an obvious fraud like Adam DeArmon/Yellowbird, a white exploiter out of Sedona who harmed dozens of Native elders with false claims. Not even Manataka was fooled by DeArmon.

Again the list of people she claims have elders supporting her:
Cherokee-
Which ones? Which of the three recognized nations?
Fact is, the Cherokee Nation has said openly many times that to put up a shingle on the web means you are a fraud. Period.

Hopi Nation- says the same. That's at least two tribes that consider her to be an outright fraud. More than likely her supposed "elders" are of dubious origin.

Inuit- Which ones of hundreds of communities?

Aboriginal people- have thousands of communities

Waitaha, Maori- apparently Crowther doesn't seem to know the Waitaha ARE Maoris. But a simple check shows why they mention this group within the Maori. Apparently the exploiter Melchizedek makes claims about their prophecies.

Maya- Again, which ones of the thousands of communities? Actual Maya tend to ID by their region and village.

Zulu- again, millions of Zulu

The lamas of Nepal and Tibet-ALL of them?
She certainly is big on grandiose unproven claims.

I will make the offer right now to Crowther and her supporters:

Name these supposed elders that you claim support her.

Until then, all she has backing her is an obvious fraud and exploiter, DeArmon, with a long track record of claiming to promote peace and spirituality while taking every dollar he can lay his hands on.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: educatedindian on October 19, 2010, 10:53:49 pm
....Lakaha Lama has, indeed, recognized her in some way, as a Shaman.

Can you explain what that means, exactly? That she was trained, has abilities, what exactly? Esp since she's not Tibetan herself. And the stranger part is, why would a Tibetan lama's endorsement have anything to do with an alleged "Salish Sioux"? I doubt the Lama would think much of a Lakota medicine man "recognizing" someone as a lama.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: C_from_Wpg on October 20, 2010, 01:57:57 am
I'd say her credibility is shot every time she calls herself "Sioux" (the colonial term that no actual Lakota would use) or claims that there is such a thing as a "Sioux Salish tribe."

I'd say her credibility is much more shot by her blatant lies in that message defending herself.

"she has been recognized as shaman of the “Tribe of Many Colors” by the spiritual elders of many indigenous tribes and peoples including the Cherokee, the Cheyenne, the Hopi, the Inuit, the Aboriginal people, the Waitaha, the Maori, the Maya, the Zulu, as well as the lamas of Nepal and Tibet. Gifts and medicine from these peoples began coming soon after she was initiated as shaman at age 30"

Then why can't she name even one alleged elder who supposedly supports her? All she can name is an obvious fraud like Adam DeArmon/Yellowbird, a white exploiter out of Sedona who harmed dozens of Native elders with false claims. Not even Manataka was fooled by DeArmon.

Again the list of people she claims have elders supporting her:
Cherokee-
Which ones? Which of the three recognized nations?
Fact is, the Cherokee Nation has said openly many times that to put up a shingle on the web means you are a fraud. Period.

Hopi Nation- says the same. That's at least two tribes that consider her to be an outright fraud. More than likely her supposed "elders" are of dubious origin.

Inuit- Which ones of hundreds of communities?

Aboriginal people- have thousands of communities

Waitaha, Maori- apparently Crowther doesn't seem to know the Waitaha ARE Maoris. But a simple check shows why they mention this group within the Maori. Apparently the exploiter Melchizedek makes claims about their prophecies.

Maya- Again, which ones of the thousands of communities? Actual Maya tend to ID by their region and village.

Zulu- again, millions of Zulu

The lamas of Nepal and Tibet-ALL of them?
She certainly is big on grandiose unproven claims.

I will make the offer right now to Crowther and her supporters:

Name these supposed elders that you claim support her.

Until then, all she has backing her is an obvious fraud and exploiter, DeArmon, with a long track record of claiming to promote peace and spirituality while taking every dollar he can lay his hands on.

Of course the above claims are far more serious and grandiose than tall tales about owls or rainbows.  I want to make it clear that I in no way support any of her outrageous claims.  I re-read my previous post - I did not mean to imply that she has much (if any) "credibility" to begin with - I was just pointing out yet one more item to the laundry list of her (what should be) obvious lies.  I was aiming for irony and missed....  :P :-[

(Thanks, Superdog, for posting this link.)
Quote
There's currently a response to this thread from the tribeofmanycolors website owner here:

http://www.tribeofmanycolors.net/news-and-urgent-messages/response-to-misinformation-on-the-web.html

It makes the attempt to explain her legitimacy and distance Crowther from claims that she's a Sioux or Salish shaman, but in fact a "Native American shaman" and then goes on to explain why this is more correct.  Sadly it does so with truly flawed logic.

Here is a quote from that website:
Quote
I personally have witnessed Kiesha receive teaching messages in Sioux (which she does not speak) from ancestors past.

How is this person able to identify the language Crowther is "receiving teachings" in?  Does (s)he know this language?  Is it recorded and then played back for someone to translate?

IMO it is worth pointing out all of the stuff that sounds suspect, whether it is big or small.  Even if someone does not see through the bigger lies (whether through ignorance or for whatever other reason), pointing out some of the smaller lies and distortions might just jar them into thinking, "Hey, wait a minute, that doesn't make any sense - I wonder if any of the other stuff is BS?"

I am glad that Crowther's own supporters have made her followers aware of the NAFPS website.  I hope some of them are curious enough to read what is posted here (in other threads, too).  Reading Crescent's posts in this thread is very heartening (thanks, Crescent).  Yes, it is possible to see the light of day after being fooled by a plastic-shaman type (been there myself - not for very long, though, thankfully  ::) - one weekend workshop, over a decade ago, plus a few silly "shaman adventure" books that I've read over the years even when I should have known better).  Reading the NAFPS forum played a big role in getting me to realize just how extremely silly a lot of this stuff is.  I have also seen, first-hand, the harm it can do to people who buy into it (one person I know has been greatly harmed by it).  By reading this forum, I have also become aware of the great harm the plastics do to the peoples and cultures whose ways they appropriate.  I would like to encourage Crowther's followers (and Crowther herself, if she is reading this) to read and think about what is posted on the NAFPS website, even though it might make them uncomfortable at first.  I guarantee that if you do so, and step back and let it sink in whenever you have to, you will learn a lot.

One way to slow down these plastics is to try to get through to those in their target market.  I believe that there are at least a few good-hearted people who have been fooled in the past, are willing to admit it, and are willing to speak out against it.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Lodro on October 20, 2010, 08:28:19 am
....Lakaha Lama has, indeed, recognized her in some way, as a Shaman.

Can you explain what that means, exactly? That she was trained, has abilities, what exactly? Esp since she's not Tibetan herself. And the stranger part is, why would a Tibetan lama's endorsement have anything to do with an alleged "Salish Sioux"? I doubt the Lama would think much of a Lakota medicine man "recognizing" someone as a lama.

I have exchanged a number of emails with Kiesha Crowther, especially focusing on this point: the "recognition" as shaman.

It turns out she has spoken with Lakha Lama briefly, while in Sweden. And of course he said kind things to her, which is how Lamas are. If you ask for a blessing you'll receive it. This in no way means "recognition", and in general, a Tibetan Lama would never "recognize" a shaman.
I've pointed out to Crowther that she willfully confuses people with her use of the word "recognition", as that is - in Tibetan usage - reserved for recognition as a "tulku" ie a teacher who influences his or her own rebirth in order to continue the link with students and the lineage.

I am sure (but I have yet to receive confirmation from Lakha Lama to whom I've written) that there is no endorsement here, only kind words and a blessing like anyone may receive from a compassionate teacher.

However, in her communication with me, Crowther first claims that she does not take teachings from Tibetan Lamas, then goes on to say that they are somehow connected with the council of indigenous elders. But apart from Lakha Lama, whom she names, she doesn't give any names, so I doubt the existence of these teachers in connection with her.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Peasant on October 20, 2010, 12:18:04 pm
OK i've seen enough. She tries to get people behind her by making outrageous claims and when these claims are challenged, she makes even more outrageous claims or takes things completely out of context, like the Tibetan lama thing. Her followers must think these statements are far too big to be made up. Most of her stories are just in the slightest bit based on reality, she'd make a mountain out of a molehill (a magic and sacred mountain prophesied to pop up in a time of great turmoil). Been reading other topics, other forums like the Rick Ross board and blogs by critics within the New Age field and i can see that there are and have been many like her... the unique bit is that she's gotten so much publicity in such a short time, thanks to Youtube. I feel stupid for believing her fantasies, doing translation work and donating some money... well, another lesson learned.

It's a clear sign that she's got something to hide if she's backing away from these claims of tribal recognition. Look at the video i've linked to in my previous post. Just about all her talks, workshops and interviews have been advertised with this 'Sioux Salish shaman' story. I saved this video to my computer in case it gets deleted. Here's another video where she says the same kind of thing: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zCGwDMgW3dc&feature=related (at 07:28).

"May you listen for the truth from your deepest hearts", what a load of bullshit. These claims can only ever be substantiated by identifying the 'Sioux Salish' who supposedly recognized her at the age of 8, and by asking those who initiated her as a shaman at the age of 30 to step forward. For people who are now thinking "The message is what counts, not the messenger" or something like that: The messenger has to be truthful. You can expect the message to be highly distorted if she's making stories up about her background, especially if she gets her information through channeling (apparently). And if the messenger doesn't count, she could charge half of what she charges now for her talks and still be able to cover her costs and support herself.

To the people who consider themselves a member of the 'Tribe of Many Colors': according to the FAQ on Kiesha's websites, her free videos are what it's all about and her talks or workshops are just a little extra for the people who want to meet her in person. I think it's wise to follow this advice that she herself has given. She's actually telling people to shut down their minds in her workshops. Sure, not thinking so much can be good for some time, just to relax. Meditation can be great. But it seems that this is not what she is talking about. Consider everything people have said in this topic and other sites that contain criticism; are you really sure it's safe to entrust the integrity of your mind to her? She may have good intentions, but i think she's on the wrong track. Her 'tribe' is starting to get a lot of cult-like tendencies. I've read two testimonies written by people who have been to her workshops. One saw the trees moving in the wind and interpreted this as some great majestic sign. The other one thinks 'left brain analytical doubts' and academic thinking is something bad that has to be overpowered. This whole tribe stuff couldn't exist without left brain activity... Internet, computers, camcorders? Anyone?
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: nemesis on October 20, 2010, 03:16:44 pm
Please don't feel bad crescent.

I think that you are very brave to be able to examine your own heart and feelings and to be able to realise that you were tricked.

Many good people are tricked by people like Crowther and I actually think that your courage in being truthful with yourself and writing about it here is probably very validating and thus healing for the native people who Crowther exploits by selling ceremony.

There is an old saying that goes something like "If today you realise that you are not as clever a person as you thought you were yesterday, you are a cleverer person today".

Please take some goodness from this experience as I think you are a better and wiser person for it.

Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Defend the Sacred on October 20, 2010, 05:53:46 pm
I'm seconding nemesis here, Crescent. Many of us got into this work because we were fooled, lied to, exploited. Or we saw loved ones harmed. Welcome to the team :-)

If the frauds, con artists and exploiters weren't skilled at what they do, they wouldn't have any followers. You weren't stupid, you were being open-hearted and trusting; you were being vulnerable. Vulnerability is a beautiful thing when we open up to those who have earned our trust, and they open up to us as well. Humans need that deep trust and intimacy in our lives. But frauds, con artists and predators exploit that vulnerability. They push people to trust them when trust has not been earned. They give the impression that they are also being vulnerable, but they are seducing people with lies and exploiting their desire to be emotionally intimate and spiritually bonded. The fault is not yours, it's Crowther's and those who make excuses for her.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Freija on October 21, 2010, 08:01:52 am
Crescent, you´ve done a great thing coming in here and clearing things up. And don´t feel stupid. Just like Kathryn says - these guys are extremely clever at what they do!

I was also fooled many years ago. It was just my gutfeeling preventing me from participating in the faked ceremonies. However, I promoted a New Age group and their faked leader, who told us he was half Lakota, half Cherokee and sometimes half Navajo. (There were many halves in that guy!!). I even donated money. But rather then burying myself in a big hole when I realized what I had done (and yes, I was so deeply ashamed and embarassed afterwards!) I decided to spend time with Native communities and do whatever it took to fight against the cultural and spiritual exploitation.

So - nothing bad that doesn´t bring something good (which is a saying in my country  :D )
Welcome to the club, Crescent!
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Saga on October 21, 2010, 09:25:25 am
I actually liked Kiesha's message too. Never donated or joined ceremonies tho, since I don't think that spirituality is about money... Anyway, there is lots of good in her talks and lots with what I don't agree at all... But for me the thing I dislike the most is the fact that she doesn't seem to work as her true self. It is unethical to back up the message with claims of "recognitions" if there are none and to pretend to be indigenous and use "indigenous" teachings to get into the business... blah. As I wrote into my introduction in new member section, I am very interested in authentic cultures and all kinds of stuff and never really thought before how wrong it is to make false claims... i do now. In a way I'd hope that people would ditch most of the Kiesha's message and keep the good parts (not the "shutting the mind" part) and don't get deeper in the tribe stuff. It has kind of nice community feeling tho, but if the whole thing has started from a lie and someone is gathering her own "tribe" together... It has a bit too cultish feeling around it...
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Peasant on October 21, 2010, 03:00:58 pm
Thanks for the heads up, i have indeed learned from this and it feels good now to warn others about her behavior. I've gotten some positive messages as well from other people who have also been reading newagefraud.org, they think the same way about this whole situation.

Yeah, not everything she says is made up. I think she wouldn't ever have gotten so far into this if she wouldn't have any intuition or other sensitivities, or experienced strange events. But some group, which John Kimmey (warned repeatedly by the Hopi nation for falsely acting as a spokesperson - he's sitting next to her the Return of the Ancestors video) and probably also Adam Yellowbird are part of, have one day called her with this 'all explaining story' that the Grandfathers (who are they?) have been watching her grow up and taught her all kinds of supernatural lessons. So that she can now share her wisdom. This must have sounded so beautiful to her, an opportunity to shine and to heal the world.

I haven't got evidence to support this but i'm very certain that she has been in contact with these people before they called her. Her behavior of making mountains out of molehills and looking away from/discarding any evidence that goes against her beliefs (including those about herself) exactly fits the gap that makes this story about the phone call seem so magical. She never explicitly mentions that she has never been in contact with them before... if that would be the case, i think she definitely would mention it in every talk or interview. That's how she is.

Also, how beautiful is this story that when she was 8 years old, she was picked up out of the crowd during a ceremony of her mother's tribe (it's still uncertain who her mother is and which tribe this is) by the leaders of the ceremony, and they were talking a language she could not understand. Now she thinks that they were talking about how she would become a shaman later, she's absolutely certain about it. The point is; the 'tribe' that made the phone call when she was 30 years old is not the same 'Sioux Salish' tribe; it's the New Age group where John Kimmey is part of, playing a wise old down-to-earth elder. Who told her that those ceremony leaders prophesied that she would become a shaman?

I think she told herself... or perhaps someone from her new group. If this ceremony really happened, and in case they actually even prophesied something, it would be that she'd exploit all these indigenous tribes by making false claims about being recognized by them, amongst many other things. I have to get this out of my system now. I'll be active again on these forums some other time, i think i've also got some info and insight to share about other people discussed in these forums. If they are for real, they should pass the test, simple as that...
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: critter - a white non-ndn person on October 21, 2010, 03:30:05 pm
Crescent I agree with all Nemesis and Kathryn and Frieja have said here.

Saga, I don't agree. It's not about if there is good in her talks or if someone
agrees or doesn't agree. I can't seem to find words to express what I feel of
this thought of yours re Crowther and her good messages.

Anyone with a modicum of common sense can figure out what is a good thing
for people to think about or believe and deliver such as messages to people..
To me, it is like the sales man offering what sounds good just to get the buyers
to the sales floor, from there they can sell them more.


Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Saga on October 21, 2010, 04:03:46 pm
Think I didn't get my point through. And I am not able to explain what I am trying to say. Ofc it is not good to follow lies and get all into illusions. It's bit like letting someone to interpret bible to you, if you wont use your own brains at all, anyone can tell you what to do, which is why the people who base all on lies shouldn't be lt close to vulnerable people... But like in bible, some of the very basic values without the unnecessary mambojambo, Kiesha did get something right, which is why people listen. Everyone feels lost and someone talks emotionally about love and family, great, lets go to that... Just wish that people would keep that love and family in mind and leave the "leaders" and "tribes" and actually do something for their lives. I am not into dissing the whole idea of miracles, but I actually doubted her background and the tribe thing from the beginning, it doesn't feel right at all for someone to start gathering tribe that doesn't do anything else than dwell in it own awesomeness...

I want to ask one question btw and I hope it is not so... Is this forum for looking for the frauds, or is this for dissing all the spirituality? I read some topics and at some topics it seems that if someone says that he/she believes in something, what ever it is, he/she will be blamed for being gullible. Even if it was a "salespeech" there were enough good in that for people to buy it. And that doesn't mean that I would support her actions. If someone is giving ANY kind of guidance to anyone else, they need to do that totally different way and let people find their own answers anyway, imho...
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Saga on October 21, 2010, 04:22:49 pm
Oh and btw, about Kiesha's stories... Even I would have stories like that to share, if I wanted. :) Just needs a bit exaggeration and making natural things magical... I actually could do that pretty easy, I have the right kind of stories to build on and some writing skills... speaking is something I should learn tho, lol. Hey guys, here's your future fraud! :p
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Freija on October 21, 2010, 04:48:55 pm
Oh and btw, about Kiesha's stories... Even I would have stories like that to share, if I wanted. :) Just needs a bit exaggeration and making natural things magical... I actually could do that pretty easy, I have the right kind of stories to build on and some writing skills... speaking is something I should learn tho, lol. Hey guys, here's your future fraud! :p

Oh, I do that ALL the time! In my books! (fiction).
It´s a great way to canalize the imagination and you can legally be totally crazy because everyone KNOWS it´s made up.

Or...should I say...most people know. I do get the occasional guys phoning me saying they know for sure it is not fiction. "Yes, it is! I made it up!" I say. "No, you didn´t!" they tell me. Well, whatever....And I do have the occasional reader phoning me saying that one of my made up characters are standing in her house. Or someone who has seen mythological persons from my books (I sometimes write about the Nordic Gods) walking down their street. Not to mention when they go hiking trying to find them....  It´s bizarre at times!  :D
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Saga on October 21, 2010, 04:54:23 pm
Well, i like to think "magically" too occasionally, but I know at the same time that if I see and interpret something as a magical, I do that consciously, because I want magic in my life and I can just as well interpret things in non-magical way. :) Human imagination is endless, you actually can form new worlds with it... unfortunately mostly just inside this one. ;)
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Defend the Sacred on October 21, 2010, 05:40:18 pm
I want to ask one question btw and I hope it is not so... Is this forum for looking for the frauds, or is this for dissing all the spirituality?

Responding in tangent thread: http://www.newagefraud.org/smf/index.php?topic=2955
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Superdog on October 21, 2010, 09:51:14 pm
I'd just like to make a person observation that Crowther, her followers and a lot of us in this discussion have seemed to miss.  One of the main philosophies Crowther's using right now is this concept she calls the Great I Am.  This concept at its root....as she's explained it, is actually the opposite of local indigenous religions/philosophies/ways of life around the world.  Her "Great I Am" concept actually more resembles one of the main viewpoints Judeo-Christianity who believe we're born in the image of God and we're inherently good at birth and that goodness is ours to lose.  Up to the point of the emergence of Judaism in world history, the world's oldest religions/philosophies preached the exact opposite of that.  Buddhism would tell you that life is suffering, in Hinduism you're trying to find a way out of the cycle of reincarnation etc.  Crowther claims to be a representative for Sioux/Salish people.  I'm not Lakota, but whenever I see Lakotas pray it usually involves some self-chastizing....a realization that you a pitiful being in comparison to the Great Spirit.  Don't take my words as gospel....only someone well-educated in Lakota ways can tell you the real deal about that, but that observation is the counter to being a "Great I Am".  In fact, many indigenous religions all around the world have beliefs that revolve around not believing Crowther's philosophy, but believing to be the opposite. 

That fact alone, for those that wish to follow "shamanism" in any way you define it should be enough to convince you that she doesn't know what she's talking about and in fact, she's just telling people positive things about themselves.

Superdog
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Saga on October 22, 2010, 09:37:12 am
You are right actually, altho she does include "we are all one" in that too and mix little bit praying in the soup after telling that there is no god...

Actually, what I have read about shamanism, the shamans in one book, where they were interviewed, not to tell about how ceremonies are done, but about their role. They mostly said that they are servants and bridge from humans to spirits and that you need to be very careful with the power you have and you need to be humble and not to lift yourself above others and so on. And some even said that it is immoral to ask money from the services because the spirits would then back off and draw the power away, altho you can accept the gifts people want to give you from their own free will... Can't remember what sort of shamans or wise men these were tho, it's a long time when I read the book... And what I have read about indigenous people before, community and everything outside you is more important than you in many cases and gods and spirits walk beside you and you ask help and guidance all the time really and there is lots of honoring and respect and humbleness involved in general. When thinking about it, even my own country's old ways were about that...

So yes, the message is almost all new age. Anyone can perform a ritual that looks like authentic one btw, you can copy some pagan ritual and add some necessary accessories and there you go...
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Freija on October 22, 2010, 09:47:22 am
Superdog - those were my thoughts, too, when I heard her message here in Sweden.
A lot of "I, I, I...."
It´s all taylor-made for a non-Native audience, especially those with low self worth, since I believe that if you feel good about yourself and your life, you wouldn´t get sucked in to these kind of "cults".

And therein lies the paradox: people I meet wanting to "become Indian" often think this is some kind of selfempowering culture. (Yes, ONE culture). Telling them that Native cultures are all about community and family, helping out in your neighbourhood etc., they look at me with disbelief. It´s quite often those duties they would like to escape from.

Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Peasant on October 22, 2010, 10:50:20 am
I wanted to leave all this be for a while, but it has been brought to my attention that the tribeofmanycolors.net website administrator Veetkam has published my real-life name and the city where i live, in a locked topic on his forums. I used to be registered with my real life name there, and the city where i live is accessible to people who are in my friends list there. But it's still an unwanted breach of privacy (by a website and forum administrator; can you believe it?). I've sent him a message kindly asking him to remove it, and of course he wouldn't, as i received some hysterical message in return. This perfectly shows what kind of a man he really is.

This is the message that he's put out to the world:


Quote
To Mitzie and Crystal:
Just to let you Clear with whom you have to do:

Crescent = Real life name - City is a active colaborator and Information-stringer - he brings names of assistants etc. and more informations to this Inquisition-Forum - But for themselve he does Hide his Identity behind the pseudonym : Crescent - as he changed it also here - because of the reason that he does not want his Identity is so open reachable in the Internet.

Thats a freedom he has - of course - and its our freedom to take notice what he really does

This is the accolade he earned there from the "Main-Administrator"
To Crescent: I am glad you are here helping us do research, and helping alert others to what goes on in Crowther's groups.


I expected something like this to happen. He has actually published private messages before, sent to him by someone who used to coordinate all the translators. There also used to be another Facebook group for the 'Tribe of many colors' which he basically overpowered by making all kinds of allegations, just to be in control of everything (from what i've heard). I've actually defended him in this topic, saying that he is not a conman, that he made the tribeofmanycolors.net forums for free and is not getting any money out of this. I've done lots of translation work for his site and this is what i get in return, along with lots of angry messages. I've only sent him friendly and peaceful messages.

I've already received a message from someone else on those forums who says he really doesn't agree with what Veetkam is doing. This is only working against him and against Kiesha Crowther. The only information that i'm putting out in this topic on NAFPS, can be found by anyone, by watching her videos, listening to her interviews and reading her messages. Yet another inconsistency in Little Grandmother's story: if she can sense people's 'energy signature' so well, she (or her group) would not leave the ownership and maintenance of such a website in the hands of a man who 'lowers his energy' all the time and is not 'changing the channel'. A wannabe spiritual man.

If he's trying to intimidate me, he's failing horribly. Can you believe this guy is like 40 years older than me? If he is so steady in his beliefs why is he so much concerned with what i'm writing here?


One last edit ;). I want to finish this by quoting a message someone posted on Facebook today, which i think is a perfect and very straightforward example of where this Tribe stuff is going.

Quote
Hi Tribe...Imagine Our Shamans relief, when You quit all personal acknowledgements about Your presence...And not Being present !
Only by passing on her mesage, and fullfill Our Primary Purpose by bringing one more person to Our Tribe, especially if You Are adequate in presence to the Gathering...
Remember You are never inadequate of Recovery by spreading - Our Concept -
I´m Yours...
- thx -
- O -
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Saga on October 22, 2010, 12:12:39 pm
Did I already say that the person who wrote in the tribe forum about the need of transparency in the background and all... her IP seems to be blocked from entering in the tribe site at all now? (at least she says that everything else works like a charm but that site says forbidden to enter the server) The one that did write that The only information that Crescent is putting out in this topic on NAFPS, can be found by anyone, by watching her videos, listening to her interviews and reading her messages in the forum.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Smart Mule on October 22, 2010, 01:33:00 pm
Crescent,

I understand that you are not intimidated by the great and powerful Admin Veetkam.  But if he is going to be posting private information on individuals there, people need to pull their head out of the clouds and realize that  if they say or do something that pisses Admin Veetkam off then their privacy and potentially their saftey could be compromised.  His actions are disturbing to say the very least.  So you're a 20 something guy.  What if you were a 20 something woman?  He is placing people in danger.  How does that support their supposed messiah's message?  It's all love and light so long as you don't think for yourself?  This is cult mentality.

Take care and stay safe,

Sky
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: critter - a white non-ndn person on October 22, 2010, 02:18:54 pm
Wow, that's awful Crescent! Hopefully this is also a reminder to people to keep their personal information off the net. That is just really creepy to say the least! 
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: nemesis on October 22, 2010, 02:42:18 pm
Crescent

So this is Veetkam W. Rentsch, tantric masseur and follower of Oshso who did this to you?

I have to be honest and say that I am very concerned.

In fact I was the one who posted up details identifying him and his interests (which I feel are dubious to say the least) and you actually defended him against my concerns, saying that he was well meaning and exploited rather than an exploiter.

If this is how he responds to people who defend him, I hate to think of what he would to to people who question his motives.

I wonder whether it might be worth contacting his ISP?

It is one thing to post up details of a person that they themselves have made available, as I did with Veetkam W. Rentsch, but quite another for a webmaster to post up private and confidential about a person, that compromises their safety, and that they have not given permission to make public.







Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Peasant on October 22, 2010, 03:46:29 pm
I defended him at first because i thought he was actually trying his best to be a good person.

About the tribe forums: my screen name used to be my real-life name as the registration form he uses for his tribe site is confusing, and you can't change your name by yourself. There also is a little bug on the site which shows the author of one single topic that i've posted there, as my previous screen name (my real life name). And the city where i live can be viewed by people who are in my friends list, or by searching my real life name on the internet. Because of that, i don't think he's doing anything we can take action against (correct me if i'm wrong). Maybe he's breaking his own forum rules though, but i have no desire to check it out now, i'm done with this little man. He's trying to intimidate me and it's only working against him.

But still, i am certain he is not so much directly involved with Kiesha Crowther. He has found her videos when they weren't viewed so much, and decided to make the website. Apparently she has now endorsed it as the Official Site for the Tribe of Many Colors but it started as something more of a fan site. My suggestion is to shift the attention back to John Kimmey, Adam Yellowbird and of course Crowther herself.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Saga on October 22, 2010, 03:49:29 pm
Well, I am not sure if the visitors can browse the forum users tho. And if they can't, his actions published your real name and location to visitors too in addition to forum members.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Peasant on October 25, 2010, 01:17:48 pm
There is yet again something else i want to post here ;D. I'm in contact with some other people who used to be active on the tribe site and i heard a very interesting theory.

In this 'Response to misinformation on the web', the anonymous writer talks about how their group thinks Kiesha Crowther is the incarnation of something very important. Also, i've heard this story some time before about how she would be the fair-haired child from some alleged prophecy. A friend of mine suggested the possibility that they might actually be talking about "White Buffalo Calf Woman". I do know that the site admin Veetkam has recently put a video about White Buffalo Calf Woman, on the Tribe of Many Colors Facebook page (which only has 6 select videos), and also on his own Facebook page for his own 'Crystal Sun' spiritual therapy thingy (which has a lot of different videos). Perhaps he hears more about what goes on behind the scenes, so there may be a connection.

I must clearly state that i have never heard Crowther or anyone else involved with her, talk about this or read anything about it, so don't bother to search for it in her previous messages, videos, websites or whatever. If it turns out that they believe this, they are apparently not that foolish. But it may be possible that this is what they're aiming for, as it does seem to fit this whole construct that they've created around her. Crowther does seem to talk about albino animals quite often, how they are special and sacred, have such a super high "vibration" (Argh! I've become allergic to that word). She's talked about albino buffalo's, whales and some others if i remember correctly... and from what i know, the legend of White Buffalo Calf Woman is associated with... white buffalo's  ::) then again, Crowther's speeches and messages are a mishmash of a whole lot of things derived from other sources so don't take my word for it.

Anyway, this is the same video as the one Veetkam uploaded on Facebook.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZJrpZi33gnI

Edit: There's another video someone has once posted on the Tribe forums, about the Lakota, White Buffalo Calf Woman and 2012. Yes, an interesting combination. :'(
I haven't watched it, i don't think this kind of stuff is healthy for me right now, but here it is: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VfOa-QyDLMQ
While i believe this was posted by just a regular forum member, it does show (from my point of view) that there is a subliminal tendency towards this stuff in Crowther's messages.

Again, i could be completely wrong on this, it's just a theory. I'm gonna leave this to people who know more about Lakota spirituality. For those of you who will keep an eye on Crowther and her activities; please, also keep an eye out for any talk about this. I've got the feeling that this might cause a lot of uproar if this is what they truly believe.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Defend the Sacred on October 25, 2010, 04:26:34 pm
There are already a few crazy white people out there claiming to be WBCW. It's such a stupid thing to do, that mostly they are laughed at and ignored. If Crowther claims this, she'll be laughed at and reviled even more than she is now. I think it would be really dumb (not to mention profoundly offensive) for her to make this claim. If she does, it will backfire on her in a big way.

But thinking about what she's said, yes, it makes sense that this is what she's implying.  I would guess she's already making this outrageous claim in private... or her handlers are making this claim for her. She probably never heard of WBCW until recently. They're probably waiting to see how the inner circle responds before going completely public with it.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Freija on October 25, 2010, 06:35:23 pm
Hmmm....is that why she claims to be working with Arvol?
And trying it out in private, just like Kathryn says?
 >:(

On the other hand, it is so offensive and so crazy that it might be what is needed for a lot of people to open their eyes.
Most of these frauds step over the line sooner and later when the power goes to their heads.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Peasant on October 25, 2010, 06:45:36 pm
One little remark: she has never claimed to work with Arvol or even talked about him, i had never heard of him before i visited these forums. I've read the reply where you said that before in this thread but i think it's been made up by those people you were talking to. Which on the other hand shows how so many followers DO think, or want to think, that Crowther is recognized by an established tribe and teaches something in the lines of Native American spirituality... and that she may be avoiding any mention of him because it would be dangerously stupid.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Saga on October 26, 2010, 06:01:38 am
Kiesha has posted the warriors of the rainbow story herself many times tho, as well as the other "tribers". They all seem to have interest in stuff from Drunvalo Melchizedek and channelers like Tom Kenyon, or something like that and mostly other new age things, some environment stuff (very little, if thinking that part of the message is to honor sacred mother earth) and Don Alejandro's speeches... dimensions and ascensions and 2012, blah. I am interested in theories, but actually believing in them isn't too high on my list... :)

(Also found http://www.onlinehumanities.com/ from some early posted links of Kiesha herself, which more or less teaches some of the basics of same things she is "teaching", at least if checking some of the contents...)

Anyone have any new actual info about her relations, i mean actual proof that she isn't part of any tribe and have no blessing from any elders mentioned? Most of our talks here are doubts and indigenous/non indigenous content in teachings anyway, or have I missed something? (Ofc... the fact that she doesn't give names, is a bit bad sign itself.) I just want to be sure, don't crusify me from asking. :)
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Ashla on October 26, 2010, 10:36:14 am


Also, how beautiful is this story that when she was 8 years old, she was picked up out of the crowd during a ceremony of her mother's tribe (it's still uncertain who her mother is and which tribe this is) by the leaders of the ceremony, and they were talking a language she could not understand. Now she thinks that they were talking about how she would become a shaman later, she's absolutely certain about it. The point is; the 'tribe' that made the phone call when she was 30 years old is not the same 'Sioux Salish' tribe; it's the New Age group where John Kimmey is part of, playing a wise old down-to-earth elder. Who told her that those ceremony leaders prophesied that she would become a shaman?

It's a nice story, but it's not real. She's fantasizing and has made it up to satisfy an empty place inside of her. This story sounds like a hollywood movie, where they make the white person a shaman or a chief. So many people watch movies like Dances with wolves or Stolen women captured hearts depicting a white person who is the hero among the ndns. Then the person is given a high status in the tribe or marries in. Into the West, a bastardized version of manifest destiny and the genocide of my ancestors also depicts a white man who marries himself a ndn woman and he's the hero in the story. People watch these movies and they want a dances with wolves fantasy. They want to be the white person who's adopted by the tribe and holds status. Or they want to be in the ceremonies holding a spiritual high place in them.

I have nothing against white people coming and learning. Only if the do this in respect and with an elder. You must go to an elder and ask permission. You don't play ndn on the prairie in the faked sweat lodges. It is bad news, these faked lodges, and seeing what happened at the resort with the fake new age leader and the people dying in those lodges. This goes to show that these are sacred and they are not to be manufactured by someone out there playing ndn. My heart goes to these people who were seekers, true seekers needing something, wanting their own vision. You want a vision? Go out and get one, but you do not need Kiesha Crowther to give that to you. The vision is waiting and it will come as it should to you. You can't pay for this my friend. No amount of money in the world gives you the true sacred ceremony. Please don't be feeling badly about being tricked. Read through Brooke medicine eagle's thread and see how this woman claimed Crow and other tribes and managed to fool a land owner in Montana and another woman looking for spiritual guidance.

I cannot help but feel anger at what people like this do to others. They sell you something fake and they reach in and grab your heart because your spirit is yearning for something. I don't like what Kiesha is doing to people and that is why my family and I have stepped in to say something about it. If someone is claiming a certain tribe you can check with that tribe yourself to see if that person is lying.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Ashla on October 26, 2010, 10:54:19 am
Kiesha has posted the warriors of the rainbow story herself many times tho, as well as the other "tribers". They all seem to have interest in stuff from Drunvalo Melchizedek and channelers like Tom Kenyon, or something like that and mostly other new age things, some environment stuff (very little, if thinking that part of the message is to honor sacred mother earth) and Don Alejandro's speeches... dimensions and ascensions and 2012, blah. I am interested in theories, but actually believing in them isn't too high on my list... :)

(Also found http://www.onlinehumanities.com/ from some early posted links of Kiesha herself, which more or less teaches some of the basics of same things she is "teaching", at least if checking some of the contents...)

Anyone have any new actual info about her relations, i mean actual proof that she isn't part of any tribe and have no blessing from any elders mentioned? Most of our talks here are doubts and indigenous/non indigenous content in teachings anyway, or have I missed something? (Ofc... the fact that she doesn't give names, is a bit bad sign itself.) I just want to be sure, don't crusify me from asking. :)

she claimed she was made shaman over the Salish tribe. the Salish don't know her. please phone their office and ask. as for her relations in CO my sister and cousin are working on this. they only know a bit of info on how the husband has taken her to court for sole custody of the children.
 
Confederated Salish & Kootenai Tribes
42487 Complex Blvd.
PO Box 278
Pablo, Montana 59855
Phone Numbers:
Headquarter: (406) 675-2700
Toll Free: (888) 835-8766
Fax: (406) 675-2806

and more numbers here, entire list
http://www.cskt.org/about/contactus.htm

 

Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Saga on October 26, 2010, 02:43:48 pm
Thank you for answering so fast and thoroughly. :) I really liked some of her speeches since some of it was what I wanted and needed to hear at the time I found her videos, fortunately I got over it pretty fast and started looking more personal spirituality, indeed to look in my heart...I remember asking from her, if she really meant that we are supposed to look into our own hearts and follow our own truth and not to follow what her heart says to do, but she never answered me (I know, question everything, lol. Just wanted to be sure of the message. :)) 

I just don't want to judge anyone really without having actual proof in any case, altho this case looks pretty sure.

It might be a bit too expensive to phone in the office to ask about her from northern Europe, so I'll take your word on it. Might consider writing there later, if I feel it is worth it tho, but not now... :) For now I think that I need to draw back a bit from the subject and and heal the wounds caused by a lie from myself. Even good intentions don't justify lies.

Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Freija on October 26, 2010, 07:47:03 pm
One little remark: she has never claimed to work with Arvol or even talked about him, i had never heard of him before i visited these forums. I've read the reply where you said that before in this thread but i think it's been made up by those people you were talking to.

Well, there is obviously no way of knowing who is lying. I was told that it came up in a private discussion when someone asked if she knew Arvol, since she was a "Sioux" shaman. And she said yes, praised him for all the good work he did and then gave the people the impression she worked with him. 

But - yes - the people who got in contact with me might be lying. Sure! And Kiesha might be lying if she says it never happened. Who knows. Interesting, though, that she is talking about albino animals which is pretty much the prophecy that Arvol has shared with the world. AND the connection to White Buffalo Calf Woman....
I have a feeling there are owls in the marsh. (Very old Swedish saying....sounds even more crazy when it is translated....)  :)
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Peasant on October 26, 2010, 08:30:53 pm
Aha, i see. Yes, that might be very possible, that she's been in contact with those people, and gave them the impression that she's working together with Arvol. Not the first time she's given anyone a false impression like that ;). I thought these people you have talked to had never talked with Crowther, but just made up this story about how she was a representative of Arvol because it fits their fantasy image of how she is really recognized by Native American elders, and all that. But she's never talked about him in her videos, interviews or messages tho.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: critter - a white non-ndn person on October 26, 2010, 09:47:28 pm
Of course not Crescent.. that would be way too easy for someone to see and call her out on. Even tho most would never have heard of Arvol, all it would take is one person to see that, verify it, and then challenge her on it.

Most frauds are not too stupid in covering their tracks.. they cannot stay in business if it is easily debunked.   :)
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Broken Arrow on October 30, 2010, 09:41:03 am
Hello people from NAFPS

This is my first post.
I wanted to share a first hand report about Keisha Crowther, who this week (october 27 and 28) did three public speakings in a small church in the town of Zeist, the Netherlands. Three times a full house, so all in all Crowther attracted some 1200 people, who paid 39 euro (54 dollars) to see her.

How did I get there? Someone suggested my friend and me to go and see her, because Crowther really would be something special: a real American shaman, etc.
I have to admit I didn’t do that much research (only saw one or two YouTube movies), so I wasn’t aware that the NAFPS already had this thread about her being a fraud. No, me and my friends really believed Crowther was the real thing, so we went to see her in the hope of experiencing something special.

And her public appearance definitely WAS something special…It’s almost frightening to see this young woman talk about love, opening up, creating a better world for all of us, etcetera. Actually quite convincing at first, especially as she even broke down and cried some three times during that night - completely overtaken by her feelings of love and empathy for all living things, mother earth, etc etc. (and recognising this Dutch church filled with people from a vision she says she had in her youth).
But when Crowther returned after a break her message of love took a different turn, making me and my friends increasingly uncomfortable. It started with her speaking about Atlantis, then the Crystal Skulls (who she says are going to be really important soon), the upcoming polar shift (‘It’s already happening’), UFO-sightings, aliens (they are here, talking to Crowther all the time – and where do they hide? in the bodies of the mentally disabled..) and how the US-government yearly spends 1 billion dollars to cover up the fact that our earth is visited by aliens in UFO’s…
In only 45 minutes my mood changed from being (kind of) open minded to utter depression. What a load of crap! So, we (my friends and I) all walked out before the end of the night, convinced that this woman is completely crazy. (strangely, most of the audience was really impressed by her).

The following day I decided to do the proper research and found your website and this enlightning thread ? 
I also found this site: http://www.niburunews.com/
It’s (partly) in Dutch and has articles and videos about all the things Crowther talked about in the second part of her ‘performance’.  It has a glowing review of Crowther’s visit to the Netherlands and also mentions that the guy who runs this site had the chance to meet Crowther earlier that day and talk about the themes on his website. Maybe this inspired her to mention all this stuff the night we attended.
Anyway: I’m glad I was able to find out myself that Crowther is the kind of false prophet that possibly belongs in a mental hospital. Yet she’s quite convincing in the way she presents herself as a nice girl who’s only here to bring her ‘important message’ to the world.
It’s all quite spooky actually..
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Saga on October 30, 2010, 10:44:30 am
Those "weird" things you mentioned also got me doubting more and more... First videos didn't had that sorts of things so much, so was totally taken, only few uncomfortable moments there... In the next ones I noticed that the "message" is quite different than I thought. I haven't seen her talking "live", but all the speeches available in video or audio do show how good "show-woman" she is.

The last thing I needed to take a step back was the fact that she mentioned something that only those who are awakened to "be the love" and see things her way are going to get in this better world/dimension/what ever. I don't need that crap, I get enough of that with christianity, which isn't my kind of religion either...  And to be honest, that kind of remarks in anything else than main religions make me think of suicide cults, especially with aliens mixed there too. Might have seen too many documents... Think there was one cult that waited for aliens to come to get them and did group suicide to enter the space ship or something...

I am bit worried about the people following her, even if she is harmless and just lives in her own illusion, those people will take a big hit because of it at some point and then be again totally without a direction.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Peasant on November 01, 2010, 02:06:42 pm
Thanks for your post, Broken Arrow. Can't believe so many people came to see her! I thought there might be like 500 people total, and even that would have been a very large amount of cash. 20 euros would still be expensive but not too extreme, but so many people paying 39 euros? That's just crazy. The total intake of those two days would be 46800 euros. Of course the church has to be rent, the people who organized the event have to get paid as well, there's travel costs and all kinds of things but no matter how you look at it, that's a shitload of money.

I already thought she wouldn't have anything new to talk about. Everything that you've mentioned and everything that this niburu site says; she's talked about it before. And it's all derived from other sources, of which some are very questionable. I think some of the strange stuff she talks about is true but many other public speakers talk about those things as well... and a lot of other things she talks about are pure bs. On her FAQ, her assistant says that these speeches and workshops are not important but are just for the people who want something extra. But i'm wondering how many people read that and realize that. I donated 50 euros to her once because at the time she had me convinced that something hugely important was going on & that she was in the middle of it... she must have had all these other people convinced as well.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Freija on November 01, 2010, 03:50:21 pm
That's just crazy. The total intake of those two days would be 46800 euros. Of course the church has to be rent, the people who organized the event have to get paid as well, there's travel costs and all kinds of things but no matter how you look at it, that's a shitload of money.
Having organised speakingtours myself - like the European NAFPS tour with Al :) - I find this "shitload of money" questionable. But there again, it depends where the money goes. The only costly thing is the travellingcosts. Accommodation will easily be provided by people who want to support "the mission". And I have never paid for a hall - you can always come up with a good deal or use schools, museums, libraries, whatever. There are no big marketingcosts. In this case they are mostly using internet. If you are doing what you are doing for a good cause, there are plenty of ways to minimize the costs. And I think it would be much easier to find cheap halls, accommodation etc. for Kiesha´s speaking tour than for the anti-exploitation tours that I used to fix. Sad, but true.

I definitely think that speakers should be paid a decent fee. However, the speakers I have organised tours for, like Al and Arvol, have given most of their money to charity or to elders on the rez. And all the people helping out with bookings, planning, tickets etc did it for free. Again, maybe Kiesha is donating her part of the money to charity. And if she is a true NA medicineperson, I am sure she wouldn´t mind transparancy. Someone should ask her.....Follow the money and you will find out who is a genuinely spiritual person .

Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: educatedindian on November 01, 2010, 08:07:19 pm
....Actually quite convincing at first, especially as she even broke down and cried some three times during that night - completely overtaken by her feelings of love and empathy for all living things, mother earth, etc etc. (and recognising this Dutch church filled with people from a vision she says she had in her youth).
But when Crowther returned after a break her message of love took a different turn, making me and my friends increasingly uncomfortable. It started with her speaking about Atlantis, then the Crystal Skulls (who she says are going to be really important soon), the upcoming polar shift (‘It’s already happening’), UFO-sightings, aliens (they are here, talking to Crowther all the time – and where do they hide? in the bodies of the mentally disabled..) and how the US-government yearly spends 1 billion dollars to cover up the fact that our earth is visited by aliens in UFO’s…


The whole breaking down crying during a speech to impress your audience...that's the kind of cheap tactic I've never seen done by a Native elder or leader, though many get very emotional during speeches. You know who does that in the US, who Crowther probably imitated? TV evangelists, fundamentalist Christian preachers, and self improvement gurus.

Every other thing you list is a hodgepodge of every Nuage and conspiracy nonsense idea on the net. I don't know of a single Native leader who believes in them, beyond a few elderly people who are thought of as a bit eccentric and humored if they hold onto even one of these beliefs, much less dozens of these. She certainly proved she knows nothing of either Salish or Lakota beliefs or traditions.

Like Annika (Freija) points out, she and others helped me out quite a bit on that speaking tour of Europe. I slept on their couches, cots, in their guestrooms and living rooms, and spoke at everywhere from universities to public meeting halls, usually charging about 5 euros. And we still made enough to break even and to keep the Albuquerque Indian center open the rest of the year.

So let me issue yet another challenge to Crowther and her supporters:

Where are the tens of thousands of dollars she's making going? Those three nights alone made over 60 grand.

Show your expenses. Be open and honest about where the money's going.

Name any charities and causes the money is given to (if any.)

No vague nonsense about "helping spread her message" or "helping Natives" or "helping peace." Show everyone in detail, just what, exactly.


Until then, you just look like a shameless hustler.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: educatedindian on November 04, 2010, 11:54:05 pm
We may have found out where the false claim that Crowther works with or is endorsed by Looking Horse came from.

I got an account saying Nan Morton of a Dutch site called Fairway is the one making that claim. And in this section of the site she makes the claim to have hosted Looking Horse and others, esp those 13 Grandmothers that seem to be everywhere.

Babelfish translation. Anyone speaking Dutch please correct anything wrong.

-------------
http://www.fairway-trainingen.nl/HTML/nieuwsmain.html
Our foundation is a nonprofit organisation, which is dedicated to world peace and busy keeps himself with healing, by keeping healingcircles in nature, both on the country and on water. Visit the Internet site of the foundation for information on healingcircles in other countries. www.ooarch.com/wisdom

Context: Nan and Neel Morton the Wisdom or the Grandmothers have set up foundation. In the past twenty-five years them both LEADERs and participants have been at spiritual, cultural exchanges concerning the complete world. They share their helderziende and healing talents for the usefulness of whole. For this reason they are very respected and them have been adopted by domestic American and Australian Aborigine descend. They with tribe seniors in Norths, central and south America, Africa, Australia, Canada, Mexico, the Philippines, China, Europe have worked etc. Them has been selected be possible travel as ambassadors for peace and they cooperate closely with Lakota-, Nakota- and the Dakota Native American Chief Arvol Looking Horse, Lakota Medicine Chief Looks For Buffalo, Hopi Grandmother Constance Mirabal, Tewa Grandfather Ernest Mirabal, Maya Grandmother Flordemayo, Navajo Grandfather Chester Kahn, Mahatma Gandhi' s for the Ela Gandhi, the Grandmothers Rita Blumenstein and Marie Mead Alaska and Grandmother Auntie Dawn van Hawaï and with others still a lot of.

Nan and Neel have been called their own spiritual insights and talents and those of the Grandmothers to share with people of the four wind directions and them do that on and humour-full manner relax. Both the honour and the responsibility the saint has been possible pour carry channupahs (peace and gebedspijpen) and water during the initipi (sweat hut) ceramics. Neel are architect and apply Earth-Friendly, (environment-friendly) architecture in the hillock landscape of Texas. The natural surroundings are always part of the healingcircles. Nan are the eigenaresse of Art & Soul music, healingcentrum and art gallery where she gives also courses and lead healingcircles. And its name is peace In this notebook Nan Morton concerning tell its travel, the Healing and Peacecircles and what unfolds itself there all round around. The notebook is order by means of: info@fairway-trainingen.nl or telephonically: 072-5600279 and during the Healing to keep and Peacecircles.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Saga on November 05, 2010, 07:56:34 am
I took brief look to both sites, english and dutch (altho I don't speak dutch either, so can't say too much about it, only what google translation gives out) and at least in her sites, there is no mention about Little Grandmother at all. All those other people mentioned are there ofc as well as mention about their projects:

"Many projects are under way within the Wisdom of the Grandmother's Foundation. To list a few...

# Holistic healing progams offered worldwide to help heal mental, emotional, physical, spiritual, & social diseases.
# Coats, shoes, propane gas and food drive for the Oglala Lakota Nation of South Dakota.
# Indigenous Peoples World Concert & Dance Tour
# Future World Gatherings: Greek Isles, Viet Nam, Mexico.
# Teachings and ceremony offered to groups by appointment in Texas and other states. (Min. of ten participants)
# Marketing and distribution of art, ceremonial items and music of indigenous tribes and those dedicated to the healing arts.
# Group and personal channeled readings; hands-on healing; breath therapy; shamanic journeying and soul retrieval by appointment.
# Documentary film & video projects to preserve the wisdom of the Elders and those who have walked before us.
# Computer based educational programs for remote areas of Alaska, Africa & Australia.
# Environmentally / Earth-friendly architecture. Residential and commercial design offering sound, attractive structures for those in need."

I get sometimes little confused with all the grandmothers, the ones mentioned here are from the 13 indigenous grandmothers, right? Since there is also the channeled grandmothers and "normal" grandmothers around sharing their wisdom. :p

Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Peasant on November 05, 2010, 08:49:26 pm
I can't find mentions of Kiesha Crowther either, though i don't know if they've mentioned this in meetings or something.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Peasant on November 16, 2010, 08:10:40 pm
(and recognising this Dutch church filled with people from a vision she says she had in her youth).

There's a new video of a speech in Zurich, Switzerland where she says exactly the same kind of thing. I've watched it for 90 seconds but am never going to look at it again to avoid further brain damage.

http://www.stumbleupon.com/su/66SdG1/www.vimeo.com/16812713
Starting at 30 seconds in.

Wow Kiesha, are you really this psychic? You're like superwoman.


Also have to add that her voice gave me the chills. The apparent enthusiasm is gone, she talks like a robot now.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Superdog on November 16, 2010, 08:34:48 pm
(and recognising this Dutch church filled with people from a vision she says she had in her youth).

There's a new video of a speech in Zurich, Switzerland where she says exactly the same kind of thing. I've watched it for 90 seconds but am never going to look at it again to avoid further brain damage.

http://www.stumbleupon.com/su/66SdG1/www.vimeo.com/16812713
Starting at 30 seconds in.

Wow Kiesha, are you really this psychic? You're like superwoman.


Also have to add that her voice gave me the chills. The apparent enthusiasm is gone, she talks like a robot now.

She talks such bs.

"When I was 30 I received a call from the indigenous nations of North America and an elder told me it was time to become a shaman, a wisdomkeeper"

Gawd what a lie...at best a sincere misrepresentation.

I wouldn't doubt that someone called her and told her that (although that sounds dubious even of itself), but the idea that there is a collective "Indigenous Nations of North America" plays upon that old stereotype that we're somehow all the same and IT'S NOT TRUE!

Just to reiterate in case someone is browsing by and reading this thread and not a member of the board

There are over 500 different Native American tribes across the US and Canada each with cultures that are tribal specific and communal and DO NOT do things as a "collective".  Especially when it comes to spiritual matters as spirituality is once again communal, tribal specific and often tied to the land and is different on a case to case basis. 

She DOES NOT represent any indigenous nation in North America let alone all of them.

Superdog
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: nemesis on November 17, 2010, 09:13:12 am
I took brief look to both sites, english and dutch (altho I don't speak dutch either, so can't say too much about it, only what google translation gives out) and at least in her sites, there is no mention about Little Grandmother at all. All those other people mentioned are there ofc as well as mention about their projects:

"Many projects are under way within the Wisdom of the Grandmother's Foundation. To list a few...

# Holistic healing progams offered worldwide to help heal mental, emotional, physical, spiritual, & social diseases.
# Coats, shoes, propane gas and food drive for the Oglala Lakota Nation of South Dakota.
# Indigenous Peoples World Concert & Dance Tour
# Future World Gatherings: Greek Isles, Viet Nam, Mexico.
# Teachings and ceremony offered to groups by appointment in Texas and other states. (Min. of ten participants)
# Marketing and distribution of art, ceremonial items and music of indigenous tribes and those dedicated to the healing arts.
# Group and personal channeled readings; hands-on healing; breath therapy; shamanic journeying and soul retrieval by appointment.
# Documentary film & video projects to preserve the wisdom of the Elders and those who have walked before us.
# Computer based educational programs for remote areas of Alaska, Africa & Australia.
# Environmentally / Earth-friendly architecture. Residential and commercial design offering sound, attractive structures for those in need."

I get sometimes little confused with all the grandmothers, the ones mentioned here are from the 13 indigenous grandmothers, right? Since there is also the channeled grandmothers and "normal" grandmothers around sharing their wisdom. :p



Just thinking aloud

A lot of the above activities fall into a kind of grey economy whereby people pay cash or can invest cash in various projects

I'm not saying that this is what is happening, but sometimes organised criminals use these kinds of newage grey economies for money laundering.  There are so many intangible assets involved and cash moving around that it is easy to draw up fake accounts re revenue streams. 

As I said before, I am not saying that this is what is happening here but I think it might be worth considering as a possibility.


Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Saga on November 17, 2010, 11:46:47 am
@Nemesis : Yes, it is common in all of the charity things, to use it for money laundrying or to just hoard money for the people who have build the organization... But what ever is the case with this, it seems to be separate from Kiesha.

I watched some of the new videos Crescent mentioned and it is true, she does sound like a robot... I couldn't help thinking some self-hypnosis cd when listening to her and then I started to feel sick... The feeling is gone, it is monotonic repeating on what ever she had said before. Not to mention that she looks drained and tired, or just bit weird in some videos. There's videos from Zürich but also from Sweden or Denmark or something...

What actually bothers me most at the moment is that she has started fear mongering with ecological subjects (guilt has always been good way to get attention), but still says that all you need to do is just BE love... which is more or less the biggest conflict to my ecologically conscious mind. Love mother earth, but by all means, continue living as you do and kill the rest of it. :p Not thinking about it will miraculously fix it, yay! Not that I'd be against sending the love to earth and humans, but I think that someone needs to actually act too, if any change is wanted...

Also she has taken ALL the worst theories on what is happening on earth and spread those now as absolute truths. And ofc starbeings are going to save us.

And @Superdog: Nice reminder, just wishing that more from the tribe would read this... Altho, they are taught not to judge and not to think with their brains, so...
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Peasant on November 17, 2010, 12:31:26 pm
I couldn't help but clicking on another video in hopes that she says another stupid thing, because i really want people to see through her lies. And yes she did another stupid thing. She's deceiving her followers, keeping them on a leash. I couldn't watch for more than 2 minutes until i literally got a headache.

http://www.vimeo.com/16830337

This is an excerpt from one of her talks where she talks about 2012. Starting at 00:55 she talks about the Mayans and a minute later she mentions grandfather Alejandro. Now this grandfather Alejandro Cirilo Perez recently said in a pay-to-watch broadcast (at https://en.esoguru.com/2012-and-the-maya ), which really tens of thousands of people have watched, that all these New Age pundits who claim to know the Mayan calendar have got it wrong, and that there will not be some kind of 'shift' in 2012. It's all misinterpretations. It's hard to find the video elsewhere, they get deleted all the time because of copyright infringements, though i'm sure that if you spend some time searching you'll find it somewhere, for free. But here's a review which i think is good: http://jlnavarro.blogspot.com/2010/08/wandering-wolfs-esotv-webcast-message.html

But yet, she still mentions him as if he's a key proponent of the 2012 movement. She's quoted him many times before. Oh look, Authentic Indigenous Wise Old Tribal Shaman Elder Wandering Wolf is Mayan and he has some wise words to say so i will quote him (and conveniently leave out his words that oppose the Maya 2012 construct) and everyone will believe me.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Saga on November 17, 2010, 01:12:57 pm
Quote
from fb under photos of Kiesha, "follower's" theory:

"A dream-message from the future? I was just watching Martin Keitel's new movie "Cereal Wormholes 2", where he tells at 29:30 about his dream-message in August of 2002 from the crop artists themselves, instructing him how to decode the spiral disc drawn at Crabwood a few days earlier (which he did not know about yet)..."
The woman from his dream was of Caucasian appearance but wears native American clothing. "A woman starts to talk. She says we need to listen to the Mayans. It is very important. The dream continues. I am with a group of people, and feel connected to those people. We are discussing how children will be prepared for an upcoming spiritual change in the world, but how governments won't support it."
I was just looking at Martin's new movie, since he is a colleague at studying crop circles, when suddenly I thought: "Hey, I know who that woman might be. She looks and sounds just like Kiesha Crowther!" Kiesha is a friend of Don Alejandro, the current Mayan wisdom-keeper in Guatemala. She is also a big fan of crop circles. In one of her videos, she says "white men in discs will soon return from the stars".
Yet how did she send a dream message to Martin in 2002, when she did not even become "Little Grandmother" until 2007? Another character in Martin's dream was Quetzalcoatl, whom the Hopis call Pahana. What if Quetzalcoatl really does return in late 2012, as a white man in a disc from the stars? Surely he will meet Kiesha, who is now a respected leader of several native American tribes. Plus he will have advanced spacetime technology as used to make crop pictures, which Martin calls "cereal wormholes".
So here is my idea: maybe Quetzalcoatl and Kiesha will meet sometime after 2012, and use his magical technology to send a psychic message back in time to Martin Keitel in 2002? We just saw a time-traveller with a mobile phone in one of Charlie Chaplin's old movies, so let's not dismiss this crazy idea too quickly! It has the ring of truth.
Best wishes to you, Kiesha, if this text and slide somehow reach you in the year 2010. And always remember that "the past is prelude"....

(Also in comments:) "A lot of people have begun to post personal criticisms of Kiesha on internet chat rooms. That is a good sign, because as Jim Watson once said while attending a scientific meeting, "If all of those people are getting angry at what the speaker is saying, then there must be something to it!" Watson, after his discovery of the correct DNA model in 1953, became very familiar with human egos."

I am so sad that people really think this way, especially the way the comment suggests. Not all of the critic in the world is there just because of the person is revealing "hidden truths". Guess this is a mind set of conspiracy theorist who wants to believe everything he/she has chosen to be the truth.

Wont comment the theory, otherwise than... now the looking for meanings is under full work then. :p

Edit: under that thing was also link to this site as an example of people who speak ill of her.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Peasant on November 18, 2010, 11:39:04 pm
Lol, that's awful. Yet another idiot who doesn't want to examine both sides of the coin because his fantasy world might just break apart.

"Kiesha is a friend of Don Alejandro" : >:(
"Kiesha, who is now a respected leader of several native American tribes" : ARGH!
"We just saw a time-traveller with a mobile phone in one of Charlie Chaplin's old movies" : http://hearing.siemens.com/sg/10-about-us/01-our-history/milestones.jsp?year=1924  ::)

Anyway...

There seem to be a lot of new videos now, after her Europe tour. I decided to watch part of one other video.

http://www.studio12.si/duhovnost/razno-duhovnost/1148-ancestral-knowledge-ang.html

-At 01:20 the intro text states "At age 30 she was initiated as Sioux shaman"  >:( ,
and yet again, that she is recognized by the almighty invisible Continental council of indigenous elders, which she says is something like top-secret, yet their name is constantly used to promote her  ???. For anyone not part of these forums who hasn't read this full topic, all the evidence indicates that there's nothing 'indigenous' or 'elders' about this so called council.

-At 06:45 she, misleadingly, brings up Alejandro Cirilo Perez again (see my last comment on the previous page) in her talk about the Maya 2012 stories. She obviously hasn't done any research about what real Mayans say, or 'received messages from the other side' about this. Just spitting out this gumball which so many Maya 2012 prophets have chewed on before her. Have you seen the movie Inception, where there are dreams within dreams within dreams? The Maya 2012 stuff that you'll find everywhere now are fairytales of fairytales of fairytales based on misinterpretations of the Mayan calendar.

Couldn't bother to watch more but i'm sure this isn't all of it.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Ashla on November 19, 2010, 02:12:45 pm
I do not understand why but these new age frauds most always find a mayan to attach themselves to, to seek validation. I've seen this so many times where someone will befriend or lay claim on a mayan and then they say "see, I am friend with Don Alejandro or Hun Batz Men, and so I know what I am talking about".

Kiesha Crowther has been talking about "pole shifts" and telling them that this is an "indian belief, a secret belief known by all indians of the world".

I am so angry I could spit. This woman needs to be stopped. I could care less about her rights to free speech. If one is going to speak, speak the truth, not lies. It needs to end.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Saga on November 19, 2010, 03:42:16 pm
I agree. Shouldn't lie about the sources and background and everything. Ofc it wont sell well, if you just admit that you cooked the damn thing up or "channeled" the message from imaginary friends, but... at least it would be truthful to say that it is just another new age soup. I don't have lots of respect for people who try so hard to be someone else than they are... With that background lots of the "message" gets even more twisted than what it was in the first place.

And Mayans... I have spend lots of time looking into the culture of mayans and I am not so sure I would even want them to be the main thing to take from, quite a lot of blood in the history of mayans. Maybe they sacrificed to their "star being" gods. :p (Provokative opinion with no back up in reality or history, btw. :p) Altho I like some things Alejandro says... and of course the culture is one of the most known and admired, but still so mysterious, that it attracts people...
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Saga on November 20, 2010, 10:15:58 am
Newest message btw:
"A message from the elders and ancestors for the tribe of many colors and all peoples... Gather healthy seeds at this time, find seed stores that provide healthy and uncontaminated seeds. There are companies in the works now that are trying to have all the rights to all seeds.. and ...these seeds will be damaged not to reproduce seeds in the plants grown.. so it is wise to find and buy healthy seeds now... this is important.. know your garden, know how to plant a garden, know your seeds.  Kiesha Crowther"

This makes me bit worried, "know your garden" is ofc borrowed from hopi "prophecy" thing... I am not qualified to say whether it is aunthentic or not, but it is very popular and going around everywhere... so what's next, "create your community" and building up a cult?

Ofc sustainable life and own garden is a good thing, but this fear mongering isn't and since the "messages" are getting different from the original, i have a nagging feeling that before the 2012 arrives we have another end of the world cult here, this time really big one. Of course I am a pessimist in my core, so I hope I am exaggerating again. :)
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: critter - a white non-ndn person on November 20, 2010, 04:31:27 pm
Well, there is an issue with a company called Monsanto, and farmers. Monsanto "owns" soybean seed and any farmer
found using it without having purchased "rights" from Monsanto will be taken to court. Some have lost everything
because of this monopoly take over, even when they have purchased another seed type, but cross pollination from
neighboring farms "contaminated" their seed with Monsanto.

So most likely this issue is where she is talking from.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Peasant on November 21, 2010, 12:19:40 am
Exactemundo. Not from Kiesha Crowther's vague, all-powerful and again invisible 'ancestors' and 'elders'. Who exactly are these spirits and elders that she's laying claim to (other than Alejandro Cirilo Perez, which is simply not true)? If she receives messages from them it would be great for her followers to know who and what these sources are exactly, right?

I'm 99% sure she's just replacing "a video i've watched on the internet" with her default magic words "ancestors and elders".

Monsanto really is pretty much evil though. Watch the movie Food, Inc. It's one of the best documentaries i've ever seen, no kidding.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: amorYcohetes on November 21, 2010, 01:30:46 am
How extremely odd.  I almost can't believe it but I just had my first experience of this forum intersecting with my RL, other than my posting with queries.  I am a community health worker and one pf my past jobs included being a "doula" (mom-to-mom labor support coach), so I am still on a listserv for labor support people in my state.  Incredibly, someone posted the other day:
Quote
Little Grandmother
PLEASE  Listen
Luister hier ALSJEBLIEFT NAAR.
http://vimeo.com/16812713
This was so weird because a post like that is totally outside the purpose of their listserv, it has nothing to do with the perinatal support role.  I wondered if it was spam and assume that the poster will be reminded to stay on topic anyway, but I felt compelled to post a message in reply
Quote
FYI, this individual calling herself 'Little Grandmother", Kiesha Crowther, is identified as fraudulently impersonating an indigenous shaman on the watchdog site, "New Age Frauds and Plastic Shamans." It is suggested by researchers who post to those forums that she may be considered a cult leader. Here is the thread where she is discussed: http://www.newagefraud.org/smf/index.php?topic=2871.0. This is the site's intro page, where they express why this kind of misrepresentation is objectionable and harmful to Native communities, and link to some articles and statements put out by tribes against it: http://www.newagefraud.org/. Hope this information is helpful.
Que mundo...
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Lodro on November 21, 2010, 07:14:56 am
She move her act to vimeo.com instead of youtube? Anyway, I've left a link to this forum's discussion at that video. May it inform viewers.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Saga on November 21, 2010, 08:21:02 am
Yeah, I know about that Monsanto thing, something about it at least, just wondering how far this goes with the direction it has taken... How convenient that there is such a things to draw from right now. We don't have the problem in Europe, for now at least :p, can get all the seeds you want.

Today she is telling people to close their un-official tribe of many colors pages from facebook, because there should be only one. Think this has been under arguing before when "northern" tribe had to change it's name, because there should be "no separation between people"... Ofc, most people do that, want to keep their "inventions" to themselves.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Peasant on November 21, 2010, 04:06:25 pm
@ amorYcohetes

I've watched a little part of it before, but this video gets more and more bizarre. I've pinpointed some things in this video on the previous page. But Saga you're actually right, there are really some hypnotic elements incorporated in this video. Skip to 5:00 and take a look at how many times these transition effects are being used. When i first clicked on this video i thought the first 90 seconds were painful to watch, but now that i've skipped through the video a bit i can see how it gets much worse.

"These are not storytales, or fairytales. (video effect) The Mayan people are Atlanteans. (video effect) The Aboriginal people are Atlanteans. (video effect) The Hawaiian people are Sumerians. (video effect) And so it continues... she starts talking about how everything is dying and everything is doom, until at about 10:00 she starts shedding tears and the video effects are being used just every other second, while she's reciting paranoid nonsense about the oil spill she has most likely read in some conspiracy articles, that were sent to her by a mentally unstable follower (see my first post on page 3, i've mentioned this before).

While i have no doubt that the one who made this video was not aware of it, because he/she is so much used to these kind of things, all this transition stuff, the constant flow of words is a classic and obviously very succesful mind control/hypnosis tactic also known as 'flooding' (www.rickross.com for more information). Her monotone voice and the constant focus on her face make it all complete. Add in this 'reincarnation of something very important' story and there you have it. I see no difference between her and any other end-of-the-world guru.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Saga on November 24, 2010, 11:25:52 am
Newest video from couple of days ago that she "promotes" is about pole shifts as a fact and ofc as a prophecy from Mayans, by Drunvalo. I didn't watch it, couldn't. At the moment it seems to be way healthier to stay away all of that. :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8vWBxi2xTVc&feature=related

She says: "very important about the pole shifts and 2012, what we need to know.. i trust and believe in brother drunvalo"

Oh and about her talks in Europe... She was in national radio program in Sweden... her "power" and effect and how she talks about "native shamans" is getting bit too big attention, if wanting to avoid giving wrong impression... It is kind of funny how she leaves the most radical things out in more official media and sounds more sane and intelligent and doesn't give the emotional "show" she does in "gatherings". Listened it earlier... It really shows how much she herself uses her mind to say exactly the right things to different people. She talks about normal life and her kids and everything to be convincing in national radio... Thing is that she still back ups her talks with elders and tribes, not in such a big proportion here than in some other talks tho. She even says that doubts herself too if she is a right person and the one people believe she is, but then ofc says that what she has been taught is absolutely true and she wont doubt that.

Here's the link to talks in radio: http://www.tribeofmanycolors.net/radioevents/radio-events.html
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Spandex~Atom on November 26, 2010, 09:57:15 pm
Prophetic sayings of Keisha Crowther that follow are transcripted  parts of the video series - 2010 with Shaman, Kiesha Crowther

Link to video 1 of 10:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yK5OOfEmut4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yK5OOfEmut4)


2010 with Shaman, Kiesha Crowther 2/10 :
(Starting at 5:12  minutes/seconds into video)  
"....within the year it will be common knowledge, and proven to you. It is an absolute truth. 2010 will be the most extraordinary year ever to have happenned on our planet. (pause) You will see things you could not possibly imagine, and I'm going to be happy to share with you several of these things. (pause) It is not easy to be a wisdom keeper because you have to say things like this to people and just pray that they are going to believe you because otherwise they are going to put you in a home somewhere (laughing) (pause) ....but I do find courage in knowing that the other wisdom keepers and I can talk together and give each other courage and say "It's gonna be ok".  I carry the wisdom for Ninepipes. He was a wisdom keeper that lived many hundreds of year- a couple hundred years ago. I am of the lineage of Spotted Owl. (pause) I am Chikala Uchi. (pause) I am Little Grandmother. (pause) I am great grand daughter of Chikala Lota and Chikala Jensen. (pause) I am daughter of Tinjan Chala and Father Mato, and I am proud to sit here today and say that I am a wisdom keeper, and that sometimes I am able to swallow my fear so that I can do things like this. So if we understand that that first the wisdom keepers were asked in 2008 to understand that our ancestors had ancient truths, that they were all once here. And then we were asked to please understand and remember who you are, that you are the Great I AM. You are Tokashila. You are love and light and everything that is possible/ 2010 has brought a new calling for us to talk about. So I say to you now that what we are asked to talk to you about is for that, yes, now you remember who you are, and if you don't 'get on it', it is past 'time'. But now that you know you are God and Goddess, unify ourselves and create the world you wish to live in. This is the overriding message of the year, and this is what we will be talking about all over every nation, over 143 countries, over 8 million people. We will be teaching and saying this- fo everywhere and to everyone. Remember who you are. Now, create knowing that thought, your thoughts, your dreams, your daydreams your wishes your wants...the goodness in you can bring forth and manifest. You are your own Creator. You are God and Goddess. Start creating. Set the mind down. Think of what you want, and make it happen. You will see that you can bring into your reality all that you wish to create...this year. It is going to happen, and I will explain how......" (and so on)
(please excuse my spelling of names etc)


2010 with Shaman, Kiesha Crowther 4/10  
(Starting at 3:21 minutes/seconds into video)
"Now I will tell you this, that in the year 2010, there will be discoveries made this year that will surpass even your highest expectations. We know for a fact that there is a place called Puma Puncu. And in this place these buildings are made more precisely than what we could do today with lasers or with diamonds. This city is made of stone that does not belong there and is more precisely built than what we could do today................  
There is a place called Dendura, that was not built only by human hands. Modern lightbulbs are found there, that still work today, that are over 17,000 years old.
Places in Greece will be found with ancient computers.
Giza and Tikal...It will be proven without a shadow of a doubt, with science itself that these cities match each other down to the most minute detail. The pyramids are placed exactly, as, clear accross the globe you look at Giza, you look at Tikal and these buildings are exactly the same. Not only are these cities exactly the same, their triplet sister is on the Moon. This will be a proven fact.
Bolivia will also have many truths. Teohuican, a 17,000 year old city made out exactly as the solar system is. This will be proven in 'fact'.
Israel, under the Dome of the Rock, lies instructions for the ways for human beings to live. It also conteins information of ancient cities we know very little about. Ethiopia contains something almost more valuable than anything that is on this planet, and I have seen this with my own eyes. There, in a very small white church made of stone with white stucco, it is only one room, a blind man keeps guard over a box, and when this blind man dies, another blind person is placed inside, to keep care of this box. And inside this box are the ancient laws for humanity. Many religions believe it to be....something callled The Ark of the Covenant. It is very real, and it is sitting there today.
Many of these truths will be pouring out, and as they pour out life is going to change on this planet (shaking head) more rapidly than any of us can possibly imagine.
You will start to remember "Oh my Gosh! We could do all these things back then? Why can't we do them now?"  Simply because we've forgotten it. It's time to remember. Truths are coming to our planet to tell us "Remember who you are", to prove to us you are capable of doing way more than you think possible, that you come from somewhere much larger than you think.
Some other truths are going to be about people we know the names of, but had no idea what they had accomplished in their lifetime. There is a man named Nikolai Tesla. What he has accomplished and what he knows and what he has done with his life is far more than people let on to know. The government says "yes he did" or "no he didn't". We have the power to change the weather, and this man knew the truth in how to do that. He's created something and knew something far vaster than, um, the government has let on to, but the government will not be able to contain this much longer. Watch for Nicolai Tesla. Learn about what he said he could do. It is an absolute fact.
Isaac Newton is another person that people kind of overlooked when he started talking nonsense. It wasn't nonsense! It was so nonsensical at the time, people couldn't hardly, they just kinda dismissed it as nonsense, craziness. But I tell you now, as we learn more about these things and what people have accomplished and what is really real, and cover-ups are no longer 'covered'. We will see, that he knew something about distance, time and space that science is only beginning to understand. Ancient cities are actually, um... "(end of video 5 of 10)

2010 with Shaman, Kiesha Crowther 5/10
(from beginning of video)
" If you look at time and space and angles, are placed exactly down to one degree of each other. This was no mistake, it was placed like that, um, because our ancient intelligence and our ancient knowing helped build these cities! And in these cities are ancient truths which will also be coming back.
There are many more things that are going to happen in year 2010, and I want to share some of them that the, uh,  is it - overall, um, consensus I guess from the wisdom keepers of what's going to happen. What I would like to say first and foremost is that the planet right now, the Earth is fat and ripened!, and ready to give up all of its secrets.
All of the secrets will be exposed.
Government cover-ups will be exposed.
Knowledge of ufo's and higher intelligence, will be exposed. Healing possibilities are gonna skyrocket!
Psychic phenomena will be proven as a fact and accepted by science worldwide.
New discoveries will lead to ways of knowing, or um, helping our bodies in which bones can be strong, much stronger, and healed, and we will live an average life after this knowledge of well past 90.   Stem-cell research will boost such an amazing, um, scientific explosion of help and knowledge for the human body science itself will be left in awe.
Filthy waters will be cleaned. Child labor willl be completely exposed, and destroyed.
This year is the year, if you take nothing else away from this know that this year is the year you are supposed to 'get it!'. You're supposed to 'get it!'. You're supposed to remember who you are, and when you do that, you 'get it'. Everything is going to be uncovered. And when things become uncovered you start realising we've been living in a fog, and you realise that your capabilities, your capacities are much larger than you thought.
There is something else that many of us have discussed and something we have seen with our own eyes. I will do my best to explain what it is I saw. There is a large tower made of pipe and wire, and on top of this which looks like a very tall thin pyramid, on top of it sits a large ball. It is next to very cold dark waters. It's not a lake, it's more like an ocean. And this machine is man-made. And it Has been made!. And it is very operational, functional, and it contains, the ability to produce enough energy for the entire planet. (cue the music......). It is functional right now. This will be coming out very quickly. There are amazing things happening on our planet that will solve many many problems. Even for a moment! think of what we could do with this technology, if it's taken out of the hands of power and government and religion, and placed in the hands of people who live from the heart. Think of what we could create." (end of video 6of10)

(brackets-mine)



There isn't much left of 2010 for all that to happen!


- Spandex


edited addition 16 dec 2010:
Important, please read:
I'm sorry Kiesha. I grew up on the Flathead reserve. All of my family are scattered every where there. I have them from Arlee all the way to Polson, going east to west, and no one knows of you. I have spoken with tribal elders who have no idea who you are. At pow wow, I asked around to see if you were made a shaman over our reserve and our people. I had people laugh in my face...............(click quote link to read in full)


Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Freija on November 27, 2010, 09:15:54 am
 :o :o

Well, you can also look at it like this: only five weeks left to prove Kiesha wrong.

OR - if she is right - December will be the most fascinating month of my life!!  ;)
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Spandex~Atom on November 27, 2010, 12:27:58 pm
Hi Freija,

True, "2010 December 2010 will be the most extraordinary year month ever to have happenned on our planet."

It amazes me how this just isn't being mentioned on her forum, it's almost as if her followers aren't really excited that it will all be happening, not only in a year, but one month!
In one month, "Everything is going to be uncovered". I suppose that includes her followers finding out how ridiculous this is.

I particularly look foreward to knowing about the ancient city on the Moon That is exactly the same as the allegedly identical cities of Giza and Tikal. But maybe I'm not understanding her correctly, maybe she really meant to say 'ancient cities' or just 'pyramids', or just that the way they match up to the pattern of star systems works exactly the same......

Her words:
"Giza and Tikal...It will be proven without a shadow of a doubt, with science itself that these cities match each other down to the most minute detail. The pyramids are placed exactly, as, clear accross the globe you look at Giza, you look at Tikal and these buildings are exactly the same. Not only are these cities exactly the same, their triplet sister is on the Moon. This will be a proven fact."


MY prediction for 2010 is that some of her die-hard followers will use that sort of reasoning to cover over her errors in their minds so that they can keep sucking up what to them is like honey that drips from her mouth. It's nice to know you have power over your world and that you're a God/Goddess, especially when the world is in such a mess. That's why people will skip over her blatant errors or not even register them in their minds. It's selective hearing."

 (http://i1115.photobucket.com/albums/k558/SpandexAtom/GIZAvsTIKAL.jpg)
These are not exactly the same down to the minutest detail!. Her claim is wildly untrue!

"Selective hearing is a way of describing the tendency of some people to ignore things that they don’t want to hear. It is not a physiological condition, as they are physically hearing the words, but their minds choose not to acknowledge the words. In many cases, the conscious mind does not appear to receive the information, so it is different than an active ignoring of speech. Instead, it is a sort of selective inattention that may be done consciously or subconsciously."
http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-selective-hearing.htm

 - Spandex
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Peasant on November 27, 2010, 02:28:09 pm
We know for a fact that there is a place called Puma Punku. And in this place these buildings are made more precisely than what we could do today with lasers or with diamonds. This city is made of stone that does not belong there and is more precisely built than what we could do today................

The nearest quarry is about 6 miles/10 km away. Nevertheless a very interesting monument which makes you question how primitive these ancient peoples really were.

Places in Greece will be found with ancient computers.

She is most likely referring to the Antikythera mechanism. It's an ancient mechanical computer designed to calculate astronomical positions and it has been found in 1900. There indeed is only one month left to suddenly find several more of these. Good luck, divers and archaeologists, you're gonna need it.

Sounds like Kiesha Crowther has watched the first Ancient Aliens episode on History Channel and decided to spice things up even more by making a prophecy about it, as both Puma Punku, the Antikythera mechanism and the carving of what looks like an ancient light bulb are discussed in that episode.

Ethiopia contains something almost more valuable than anything that is on this planet, and I have seen this with my own eyes. There, in a very small white church made of stone with white stucco, it is only one room, a blind man keeps guard over a box, and when this blind man dies, another blind person is placed inside, to keep care of this box. And inside this box are the ancient laws for humanity. Many religions believe it to be....something callled The Ark of the Covenant. It is very real, and it is sitting there today.

Interesting how she uses Graham Hancock's story in 'The Sign and The Seal' without paying any tribute to him, but rather presenting it as if she has found it by herself. While adding a spin of her own to this story, of course, like how only blind people are chosen to guard this church, and how this box contains the ancient laws of humanity. Have to say, i haven't read any of his books yet, just seen some videos, but i do think Graham Hancock has some very interesting theories that are not getting the amount of attention they deserve. Sadly, they're often misused by people like Kiesha Crowther. Also very interesting how she has seen this with her own eyes, if nobody is allowed inside this church. She happens to be so omniscient and omnipresent that she also witnessed EISCAT's Norway Spiral experiment with her own eyes. Kiesha, if you would only just share your secrets of teleportation with the world, there would be no need for cars, no need for airplanes, no need for passenger ships and what else! You could save the environment!


There is something else that many of us have discussed and something we have seen with our own eyes. I will do my best to explain what it is I saw. There is a large tower made of pipe and wire, and on top of this which looks like a very tall thin pyramid, on top of it sits a large ball. It is next to very cold dark waters. It's not a lake, it's more like an ocean. And this machine is man-made. And it Has been made!. And it is very operational, functional, and it contains, the ability to produce enough energy for the entire planet. (cue the music......). It is functional right now. This will be coming out very quickly.

Sounds like some hypothetical moon energy machine straight out of a Dolores Cannon book. Which she has seen with her own eyes of course.

After all these posts, i'm amazed at how stupid she is. You know what else is keeping her followers from questioning the things she says? Her habits of promoting paranoid, psychosis-inducing New Age beliefs that you alone create your world with your thoughts and feelings, that you alone determine what becomes reality in your world. And, of course, how she is absolutely certain that only New Agers people who are 'living in the heart', a small percentage of the world's population, will survive the year 2012.

The 'Tribe of Many Colors', with the talk about how there will be a massive 'cleanse', qualifies as an online New Age doomsday cult, which, with every speech and workshop, is gradually expanding into real-life. I wonder what's next, small communities gathered under the guise of love and light? AFAIK there already is one in my country, a group of unemployed squatters with New Age beliefs, who found Crowther's message and decided to shift their focus to that. They have already hosted some Tribe of Many Colors gatherings and have the intention to start some kind of festival. They have good intentions, they're just following the wrong person. When everything was relatively small and innocent, no 2012 doomsday talk, i actually signed up for one of these gatherings, but it didn't feel right... glad i decided not to go.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Spandex~Atom on November 27, 2010, 02:30:45 pm
Kiesha Crowther claims:
"There is a place called Dendera, that was not built only by human hands."

Here is Dendera:
(http://i1115.photobucket.com/albums/k558/SpandexAtom/dendera.jpg)


Yes, Dendera exists, this is a fact, but not exactly breaking news! It wouldn't be a great surprise to know that it wasn't built only by human hands, and that animals were used to help pull stones etc. But she seems to me to be implying is that there is some involvement from non human intelligence. What/who this is she doesn't say, which isn't a surprise. Has she ever elaborated on this or are her 'sources' of information just throwing her crumbs, lol.


Kiesha Crowther claims:  
Modern lightbulbs are found there, that still work today, that are over 17,000 years old.

Here is what she is referring to:
(http://i1115.photobucket.com/albums/k558/SpandexAtom/lamp.jpg)

Forgive me for being picky, but this is NOT a modern lightbulb that still works after 17,000 years. This is a stone relief that is interpreted by some "experts" as a lamp. Instead of giving the literal truth, she gives the impression to her audience that there are actual lightbulbs that still work after thousands of years. If there are any actual lightbulbs at the site, there is one month for them to be discovered!

Where does the 17,000 year figure come form again?
"the earliest extant building in the compound today is the Mammisi raised by Nectanebo II – last of the native pharaohs (360-343 BC)." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dendera_Temple_complex
Again, what she says is erroneous elaboration on a topic which is old news. Giving the impression it's some truth that is coming out in 2010 is untrue. These aren't the sayings of a 'wisdom-keeper' imo.

-Spandex


edited addition 16 dec 2010:
Important, please read:
I'm sorry Kiesha. I grew up on the Flathead reserve. All of my family are scattered every where there. I have them from Arlee all the way to Polson, going east to west, and no one knows of you. I have spoken with tribal elders who have no idea who you are. At pow wow, I asked around to see if you were made a shaman over our reserve and our people. I had people laugh in my face...............(click quote link to read in full)


Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: educatedindian on November 27, 2010, 02:48:06 pm
Prophetic sayings of Keisha Crowther that follow are transcripted  parts of the video series - 2010 with Shaman, Kiesha Crowther

Link to video 1 of 10:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yK5OOfEmut4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yK5OOfEmut4)


2010 with Shaman, Kiesha Crowther 2/10 :
(Starting at 5:12  minutes/seconds into video)  
"....I carry the wisdom for Nine Pipes. He was a wisdom keeper that lived many hundreds of year- a couple hundred years ago. I am of the lineage of Spotted Owl. (pause) I am Chikala Uchi. (pause) I am Little Grandmother. (pause) I am great grand daughter of Chikala Lota and Chikala Jensen. (pause) I am daughter of Tinjan Chala and Father Mato....

This is the closest she's come that I know of to saying who her supposed relatives are. Still pretty vague and unclear, throwing out lots of names that sound impressive to people who aren't familiar.

Ninepipes (generally spelled as one word, not two) was a name or part of the names used by several Salish leaders. This was about 100-120 years ago, not "a couple hundred." They were some of the smaller chiefs, not known for being medicine people as far as I know, though likely respected as wise counselors.

If she claims Spotted Owl's lineage, that can be checked. He was from Pine Ridge. There's nothing on the other names I could find online, but saying who her great grandparents supposedly were should help.

I still find it very strange she hides who her alleged relatives are almost all the time.

---------------
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~mikestevens/2010-p/p299.htm
(?) Spotted Owl1,2,3,4  (M)
(1868 - ), #40948
Pop-up Pedigree
     Also known as (?) Hinhan Gleska.1,2,3,4 The nationality of (?) Spotted Owl was Oglala Lakota Sioux.1,2,3,4 (?) Spotted Owl was born in 1868.1,3,2,4 He was the son of (?) Shell Boy and (?) Hopper Horse.1,2 He was listed as "daughter" and residing in the home of (?) Shell Boy on the U.S. Indian Census Rolls taken on July 1, 1892 at Pine Ridge Indian Reservation, White Clay District, Shannon Co., South Dakota ., USA.1 He married Mary Hawk Woman after July 1, 1892.2,3,4 (?) was listed as the "Head of the Household" on the US Indian Census Rolls at Pine Ridge Indian Reservation, White Clay District, Shannon Co., South Dakota, USA, on July 1, 1894.2 (?) was listed as the "Head of the Household" on the US Indian Census Rolls at Pine Ridge Indian Reservation, Wounded Knee District, Shannon Co., South Dakota, USA, on June 25, 1895.3 (?) was listed as the "Head of the Household" on the US Indian Census Rolls at Pine Ridge Indian Reservation, Wounded Knee District, Shannon Co., South Dakota, USA, on June 30, 1896.4

Children of (?) Spotted Owl and Mary Hawk Woman
(?) Bloody Mouth b. Apr, 18932,4
(?) Sits In Sight b. Mar, 18964
Citations
[S556] 1892.
[S269] 1894.
[S561] June 30th 1895.
[S158] June 30th, 1896.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Spandex~Atom on November 27, 2010, 02:49:20 pm
Thanks, Crescent,  for giving details about where Kiesha appropriated her information about the Ark of the Covenant.

Here is a video on youtube about it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YOqLpT6HKzY&playnext=1&list=PL37B5FB8EE6746B93&index=29 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YOqLpT6HKzY&playnext=1&list=PL37B5FB8EE6746B93&index=29)

instead of paying to hear this from her 'talks', people can listen for free on youtube!

-
Spandex
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Spandex~Atom on November 27, 2010, 08:13:26 pm
Hi educatedindian,

Thank you for the proper spelling for Ninepipes. I've edited the post so that it is now correct.
I apologise if the other names are incorrect, I just spelled tham like they sounded to me.

I don't know why someone would be so cagey about their history. Someone who is proud of their heritage would be alot more open, especially if they are someone who their tribe has been waiting for for 400 years, and now has the job of speaking for a prophesied new tribe. Jesus for example has the female and male lineage on record going right back to Adam and Eve (at least it's there, wether we believe it or not). 

-Spandex
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Ingeborg on November 28, 2010, 12:07:08 am
Quote from: Spandex~Atom
I am of the lineage of Spotted Owl. (pause) I am Chikala Uchi. (pause) I am Little Grandmother. (pause) I am great grand daughter of Chikala Lota and Chikala Jensen. (pause) I am daughter of Tinjan Chala and Father Mato

One of our Lakota friends here should have a look at the names, as Crowther means to use Lakota words.

However, she doesn't know her behind from a hole in the ground...

As one example: 'little' is ciqala, and 'grandmother' is unci. But 'Little Grandmother' will not translate in the way Crowther says - if I'm not mistaken, it's Unciciqala correctly.

Same then with the two other names, albeit it is somewhat strange her ancestors were all little somethings. If you understood this correctly, the second word in the second name could be 'luta', but this means read which does not make sense.

When she says she's the daughter of Tincancala (sp?) and Father Mahto - these names seem to be both taken from the Lakota language. Didn't Crowther claim one parent was Salish-Sioux and one was white? (Oh, perhaps this is another case of 'ndn by injection'....  :o )

Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Spandex~Atom on November 28, 2010, 02:01:09 am
I'm a newbie here and not sure if this post is appropriate, so my apologies if this is not the case, and I will take it down.
This is directed towards those who wish to REALLY 'get it'.
It won't cost you any money!

To all who are reading this thread, please take the time to read the posts and keep an open mind. If you feel negative energy, don't switch the channel as if it will hurt your reality. Be brave. Sometimes the truth hurts. Remember the saying "wolves in sheeps clothing"? Think! Don't invest your energy in following this person, and don't give her your time and energy by promoting her movement.

Her movement (and don't kid yourself that it isn't her that it has been designed to centre around) is presently in its early stages, but it allready has quite a momentum building. Why? Because she feeds people what they want to hear!

She mixes in alot of topics that appeal to her target audience like forbidden history, star-people visiting Earth and their involvement over our history, government cover-ups and the witholding of vital technologies which would create a better world, spirituality,  positive thinking and the power of thought to co-create reality, and so on....

None of these things are an indication that she is who she says she is, and any good con artist can rattle off this type of script, and talk at length. No matter how attractive her presentation is to you, or how much she engenders a heartfelt response from you with her touching way of relating her message, think before you leap. Not all that glitters is gold.

"We are the ones we have been waiting for!"

"We are the Rainbow Warriors" ('The Tribe of Many Colours')

"The Ancestors Have Returned!"

"You are god/goddess!"

"Remember who you are"

If any of these statements resonate with you, despite who relly said them originally (which is worth researching wether they are all genuine!), then you should also realise that you don't need to be making an attachment to anyone as your shaman. 

So if you think/know you're a god or one of the ancestors reincarnated, you should also know that every single other person on this planet is your equal, right? What else do you need? You don't need anyone to be telling you what to do. You know what to do. It's simple. Try to be a good person in thoughts, words and deeds,  and generally be kind to others in your daily life. Also, why do you need anyone to tell you how to prepare for some future event? What are you afraid of? There is nothing you need to do any more than any other of the creatures on Earth. Do you think that Creator/ess (or however you concieve the Divine Source) doesn't care just as much about all creatures?  The best way to raise your vibrations if that's your concern is to go about being kind to people in a practical way in your daily life. That's my opinion anyway. Faith without works is dead. Holding crystals and sending healing etc is all great, and meditating is good for you, also raising your energy to be attuned to love........but it isn't going to turn you into a light being. You are allready that, so is an ant and a tree. The people peddling ways to help you ascend rely on you not allready knowing that, and that you have been given all you need to make it through whatever the universe presents you with without their expert help, knowledge or channelled messages etc. Take responsibility and go to the source yourself. Middlemen/women will only provide you with distractions, disillusionment  and perhaps an emptier bank account.

You certainly don't need to be promoting logos emblazoned with 'Little Grandmother' as someone who others need to be turning to as a source/channel of truth and guidance. Any of you with any sense can see how wrong this feels if you haven't become a devotee allready and invested your energy.


-Spandex
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Freija on November 28, 2010, 11:09:22 am
Well said, Spandex. And it pretty much goes along with my own thoughts.
What strikes me when you listen to these people is the way the present obvious facts, norms and values - like the things you (hopefully) learn as a kid: be good to each other!

If you just listen to the overall message - and the quotes you posted - it is getting more and more scary and extremely cultlike.
Kiesha obviously tries to create a group of godlike superhumans - or rather, convincing these people that they are above everyone else.
"We are the ones we have been waiting for!"  I vaguely remember someone else dreaming about a "master race", some guy with a funny moustache...(not Charlie Caplin) :)

I am really worried since I have friends deeply involved with this woman. And my attempts to make them open their eyes have failed as they have been told to be very careful of outsiders trying to mislead them. It doesn´t feel good. At all.

When I had the honour of spending time with Chief Looking Horse, he repeatedly said: "In the coming years, we will see more and more false prophets. Be very careful...."  I think he is right on the spot. (As usual)
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Niels on November 28, 2010, 02:21:13 pm
Dear Madam and Sirs,

I have read through most of your comments to Kiesha Crowther. I do think however you are way out of "your conspiracy minds"!! I agree some of this - I see as "name dropping", - who she knows and family lines  is childish but very common among all folks in all kinds of social environment - just go to a cocktail party in the media industry. Some of you people have the same tendency - just by knowing and are "close to" or have travelled with - been in the shadow off....a famous medicine person.

This White selfrealisation has been going on since the 70' where so called " indians" - they are human beings???  like most people are - all of a sudden were reinvented in the western world.
Everyone coming from a pit in the country, knows everything about racism and how Whiote bourgeous people from the city treat low life farmer children, - you do not have to be indian or black to have experienced that.

I have personally been to 3 Kieshas shows - 2 last summer and 1 here a month ago. They are interesting and by all means a lot of fun - and they are not dangerous and I am not a fool and not a sheep. These comments make me hold my stomach with laugh, when I read them here.
 
Arvols comments - there will come false prophets is as sure as the sun. They have allways been here and there will come more in all fields of life. From false businesspeople and politicians to plastic indians - Please have some fun and see it and teach your children to see the difference between real stuff and plastic.

I also know people selling coaching based on indian beliefs - but they leave out the credential to where they got it from,... Even Benjamin Franklin wrote the American constitution - "stealing" quite alot from The Great law of the 6 Nations, I have been told. Also Marx and Engells had studied the same law. And I believe that is fantastic - you cannot own wisdom it belongs to everybody. - as long as you DO NOT MAKING IT YOURS. That is stealing from the universe in my opinion!

I will say that the newage movement is not my cup of tea - I do not see much energy there - not much hard work - just a lot of fancy colors, and posters for money making salvation. That is also nothing new.
I tried  to sell flowers next to the road when I was a kid. I believe this newage thing is at the same level. Kids stof!!

Go and see a Kiesha Crowther show your-self and get 1. hand knowledge of what is going on. It is not dangerous. All the videos you refer to are edited and different from the show.
 
I believe most the people that come to the shows are just plain curious and have a sound mind. Of course it is nice to see and meet other people that have had strange experiences and live a spiritual life - after all - that life style can be found in any culture - even the Scandinavian - even in the middle of a city. Personally I have seen lots of strange things since I was a kid - I have never been initiated by anyone - except the nature and animals around me and Danish Radio and Television. - and I do know some very fine gentile people among ordinay indians - but in all respect I do not drop their names, - and in my daily work within the mediaindustry - it is also considered childish to drop names - lack of professional skill, - for all that counts is hard, hard  work and respect. Even you totally disagree, I believe that you must show respect and not fall in the same pit you just critisized. I have learned this from my parents and through-out my prof. media world  and been teaching that philosophy in the industry.

Instaed of rediculing people of their feelings and hopes - please redirect them and use fun and kindness and show them a way out. Share with them your ways and how to get on a new path.

I think, - however not to sound like a sour dog,  that this homepage is very important, - because it is an important search platform to keep the most insane con men and women out of business and give naive souls some facts. I have personally come across a few of conmedicinemen them in the 80´s. With all kinds of "holy " names they usually call themselves, but they are to "see through" for most people. Only young girls usually get blown into bed - while they wait in line - in between ceremonies:)

Well in my own industry Radio/ TV Media World, - it is filled up with con men and women. The only thing to do is to make a better world and show what YOU belive in and if you have someting to show others you better work your ass of - in full respect for your audience -the people you come from - in all respect for do not waste their time , - with either con or childish bullshit!

I Do respect your work on this homepage very much, - Thank You for letting me talk!

Niels Worsøe, Copenhagen, Denmark.







Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Peasant on November 28, 2010, 03:50:02 pm
Hi Niels,

Welcome to the forums and thanks for your insight. I have to say i personally think the forum members here do show people something that's part of a better path... a path which includes using your mind, doing background research and applying discernment. If people here would constantly have to present this research they're doing about frauds as a sweet sugary wrapped candy, it would take a lot of extra energy. It would in a way be a lie to themselves, as people here would constantly have to detach themselves from how they personally feel about these situations, which is often angry, or a feeling of having been let down. Would anyone make a website like this if this person feels positive about everything and sees all these things that are going on as harmless childs play? Nah. There is a very good and very real reason for the Lakota (Sioux) people's declaration of war against the exploiters of their spirituality. And i think that if there's hardly any criticism about a 'spiritual teacher' or about some community, by ex-followers or ex-inhabitants, it's either an extremely, extremely rare case (like the Dalai Lama), or something fishy. I agree that people here are doing a good thing, and personally i feel much better by sharing my views, spelling out the facts, and contributing to exposing who people like Kiesha Crowther really are.

I have no doubt that Kiesha Crowther makes some jokes in her workshops and speeches, and that there seems to be a good mood of coming together. But i personally don't see what's fun about her telling people (in a completely 100% convinced way) the hoax that a large percentage of the world's population will die in 2012, i don't see what's fun about lying about all parts of her supposed tribal recognition by indigenous nations, what's fun about making up a BS prophecy about the year 2010 in one of her expensive talks, after watching some sensational tv-show. I have trouble seeing what's fun about promoting paranoia and potentially putting some unstable followers in danger of a psychosis by reciting ridiculous and wildly untrue conspiracy, disaster & armageddon theories she has read somewhere on the internet, all the while presenting them as if her 'ancestor spirits and elders' have told her to do so. And although this is not done by Kiesha Crowther but by her website admin, i do not see what's fun about having my name and the city where i live published in a locked topic on her Tribe forums, as a result of my posts here on the NAFPS boards. I believe you when you say you're stable enough not to be swept away by these lies she tells to people, but i know for an absolute fact that this does not count for everyone of the people who attend her talks and workshops and watch her videos.

These people are often vulnerable as they often feel disillusioned & depressed with the world, and are looking for some kind of hope. Kiesha Crowther tells them the kind of things they want to hear, but no matter how friendly she may be and how innocent she may appear to be, she is a delusional and horribly misled fake who simply tells way too many lies about herself and about the world.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: critter - a white non-ndn person on November 28, 2010, 05:14:52 pm
Um. no. Medicine or whatever name a person gives to that humbled gift is not a source for personal ego such as 'name dropping'.
I've not met any person who has met true "medicine" that would speak of it at a cocktail party or with any in an attempt to build
their own image. The only people who speak like that are people trying to convince others of their self perceived greatness.

There is a huge difference between hearing someone say something wise, and then sharing that with someone else, and taking
a piece of a peoples' religion and using that as a means of self promotion. Especially when the piece they are using is already false
because they got it from some other fake, doing the same thing they are.

If it is part of a religion to convert others, then by all means, go and spread the word, share with others. But if the religion
and belief is NOT to do that, then why expect the members of that belief system to over step what they believe in order to
do what humans want?  No one would.

People seem to think they are 'owed' a belief. They are not. No Creator/God owes anyone anything. And NA's do not owe
the public a belief either. Especially when the people they have been kind and generous enough to share with, have then
taken it and used it to profit, or claim to 'know' it when they don't, and use it in falseness.

Instead, people steal bits and pieces and make it sound as though the gilded doors are standing open, just waiting for them,
and that by simply believing in their minds, somehow, it makes it all real. If they believe they are ascended, then they are.

There is no reality in this.

Some person with psychological issues makes up a bunch of hooey. Then they go on utube and spout like they are
some great knower, and gobble up all the vulnerable people who do not know that what they are being taught and
told is fake, and not real. Kiesha, and people like her,  rake in the money. And the people rake in a false belief, that
at some point in time, will crash. Hopefully, before they die so that it is not too late for them to actually live a true life.

None of this is fun. As for ridiculing. I don't see where anyone here ridicules the followers of such jerks. I see understanding
of the plight, but no one is really able to stop it. Except to put information on a internet board and hope they somehow stumble
on it and read it and open their eyes to the lies they've been told.

Kiesha is not who she claims, and what she teaches is made up. What she states is lies. And this, is not fun.

You say it is not dangerous? What implications do you not think are dangerous?  Fooling with peoples minds and beliefs?
Perhaps you equate danger only to physical harm. Psychological harm is just as dangerous.

Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: nemesis on November 28, 2010, 05:39:21 pm
Everyone coming from a pit in the country, knows everything about racism and how Whiote bourgeous people from the city treat low life farmer children, - you do not have to be indian or black to have experienced that.

Let's get this straight.  You are claiming that white people know what it's like to be on the receiving end of racism if they grow up on a farm and encounter snobbery?

Are you trolling or are you really so stupid as to believe this is true?

I have personally been to 3 Kieshas shows - 2 last summer and 1 here a month ago. They are interesting and by all means a lot of fun - and they are not dangerous and I am not a fool and not a sheep. These comments make me hold my stomach with laugh, when I read them here.

Do you have even the slightest idea just how ridiculous you sound?

Who the hell are you to state what is dangerous and what is not?  Just what are your qualifications in this respect?  Serious question.

You claim not to be a fool or a sheep and yet your comments demonstrate otherwise.

you cannot own wisdom it belongs to everybody. - as long as you DO NOT MAKING IT YOURS. That is stealing from the universe in my opinion!

This is an outrageous statement to make in the context the cultural appropriation.  You are pretty much stating that NDNs are unable to own their own spiritual traditions because they never owned their traditions in the first place as "they belong to the everyone in the universe".  You would not be the first white person to believe that it is impossible to steal from NDNs, as google will demonstrate.  Just search for "native American" and "cultural genocide" to check out the historical roots of your odious proclamations.


Instaed of rediculing people of their feelings and hopes - please redirect them and use fun and kindness and show them a way out. Share with them your ways and how to get on a new path.

You're incredible you are.  You are honestly suggesting to NDN people who are hurt and angry about cultural appropriation, fraud and theft, to not get angry but instead to "share their ways" with a bunch of deluded newagers who foolishly follow a con woman?

The irony of the situation is that many NDN people have very generously given their time and energy, free of charge, to warn people about frauds like Crowther and her ilk on this very website and you response is not to thank them, or even to give serious consideration to their concerns but to dismiss them contemptuously, for example:  

I have read through most of your comments to Kiesha Crowther. I do think however you are way out of "your conspiracy minds"!!

then you go on to say

I Do respect your work on this homepage very much,

It seems to me that you have a lot to learn about respect as your posts here are incredibly disrespectful, narcissistic and just plain racist.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Ingeborg on November 28, 2010, 06:20:28 pm

Quote from: Niels
I do think however you are way out of "your conspiracy minds"!! I agree some of this - I see as "name dropping", - who she knows and family lines  is childish but very common among all folks in all kinds of social environment - just go to a cocktail party in the media industry. Some of you people have the same tendency - just by knowing and are "close to" or have travelled with - been in the shadow off....a famous medicine person.

Ahem. You should perhaps learn a few bits and pieces about other cultures before you come dashing along with such a bucket full of cultural insensivity....
What you, as arrogantly as incorrectly, chose to describe as name dropping has a very valid cultural background in ndn nations: individuals will introduce themselves by naming their relatives and ancestors. It is not rare for persons who have just met to continue with this until they find someone they are both related to, or at least both know.

Indian country is fairly small, so names will be known by many, if not all, even if they never met person in question personally. So names are not being mentioned to impress – far from it. Whatever the culture in your special subculture of media does and doesn't do and why may not be generalized.

Asking for Crowther's ancestors is also important in establishing whether she is what she claims. If she was ndn, her parents, grandparents, great-grandparents would be known to people. Ndn people, to be precise. Also Crowther would be known if she was what she claimed.


Quote
This White selfrealisation has been going on since the 70' where so called " indians" - they are human beings???  like most people are - all of a sudden were reinvented in the western world.
Everyone coming from a pit in the country, knows everything about racism and how Whiote bourgeous people from the city treat low life farmer children, - you do not have to be indian or black to have experienced that.

Apparently you come from a part of the world where people do +not know about racism.... Your claim that villagers may be met by certain stereotypes and prejudice from townspeople – you're certain you live in the same century as we do? Perhaps the media world does not...

However, I'll let you into a secret: you are speaking of villagers whose arses will be as lilywhite as yours and mine. Therefore we're not speaking of racism – a Danish villager may learn the ways of your fancy media world and thus be accepted. Ndn people, or black people, may do whatever they want, they will always remain what they are to racists who believe that the darker the brown, the inferior a person will be. This is something they cannot escape. So, no – to experience racism, being a Danish villager will not do.

In your above paragraph, I do not see any criticism regarding ndns having been „reinvented in the Western world“, as if it was a sort of birthright Europeans had to do with and to other ethnic groups whatever they felt like. Well, tough sh*t, as much as many of us Europeans may crave for such a birthright, we never had it, we don't presently, and we never will.

It is, therefore, inappropriate for a white bloke bursting in and attempting to give lectures on what you don't have an idea about. Your phrase „they are human beings like +most people are“ does leave quite some space for interpretation, BTW – just like most?, not like +all people are? Not like everybody else? So who will be more human than ndns? Your sentence has a certain odour to it...

Which is matched by the pomposity with which you assert you are waaay to superior to fall for whatever Crowther or the likes of her come selling. However, it is your kettle of fish if you do or whether you are prepared to listen. What you fail to see, or probably prefer to ignore, is that Crowther and her ilk come selling a spirituality which is not theirs in the very first place. But, the true white people they are, they believe they are entitled to grab whatever they feel like exploiting. This is just a new version of colonialism – and since lands, resources etc were already stolen long ago, this is what is left. Additionally, by their mimicking they will twist and disfigure what they steal, and they will mix ndn spiritually with all kinds of other stolen ideas. Like Crowther does. I suppose her assertion that her audience are gods will appeal to many white persons who feel unoriented and alienated in their own society, as many do here in Europe, and fill them with a new, albeit inappropriate feeling of grandiosity (again). As probably does Crowther when she falsely claims ndn descent, being a medicine woman, and when she even attempts to start 'her own' tribe.


Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Freija on November 28, 2010, 06:49:55 pm
Hi Niels - I´m across the boarder in Sweden.
I did have alot on my mind and was typing away, but people on this board have already said most of it.

Just one more thing....

Please have some fun and see it......

Did you just tell Native Americans to have som fun while experiencing cultural genocide?

Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Saga on November 28, 2010, 06:56:26 pm
To be totally honest here, the tribe of many colors thing might not seem dangerous, but at least for me personally to get caught into it was the worse thing that could happen to me. It left me hanging for a while in very thin thread. It was probably the sweetest message when I first heard it. I mean, I have been depressed most of my life and it was the first thing that actually made me think that there is something positive in the world (the very first message that is). I am usually very good at detaching myself from "gurus" and just objectively look the messages, but maybe it is because i usually check the "messenger" first before believing any of the message... well in this case ofc, the messenger looked very sincere and her message comforted me at first...  Then it started to change and I got confused. It didn't sound right to me, I am quite down to earth person and love nature related stuff and have been studying all kinds of "earth religions", so the new age stuff felt wrong to me, I got over it in my teens... In any case, it was something that made me think if everything was what it seems. Then someone posted this site somewhere, and the base of my "happiness" was shaken pretty badly. When you build on lies, your world will come down at some point, I guess... when I noticed that the doubt was right, I also noticed that I have no reason to believe any of the things this woman is representing as "truths". Also, what kind of person feel need to back up her truths with fake background and "recognitions"? What kind of person, after saying that the teachings are free and she is just sharing for greater good, starts to have workshops that cost a lot, while people still work for her for free to get her message out? What kind of person sells spirituality and things that are known all over already as absolute truths? What kind of person feels that she has right to represent more or less every indigenous people in the world with her new age theories and prophecies? And so on... At first it was all shame and hate and disappointment and feeling of being left alone in the dark again... I actually deleted my account from this forum once because i had difficulties to swallow the truth and I too felt that it is somehow "giving energy to the negative" (blah :p), if I come here. Well... after trying to build my own spirituality anew again from what I had left and what I had learned (it is quite hard to get it that we "white people" really do think that we own the world and need to find more respect for things, even tho we might not like it :p)... i actually came to conclusion that this site was probably the best thing that has ever happened to me. Not a gentle wake up, but at least I start to have an idea what might be more important in my life at the moment. And also, hard lesson, to build on more steady foundation, on things that actually have value in life, that are more true. Also think I will do my backup researches better from now on. :p

In short, I got hurt, I got frustrated, disappointed, sad, angry, almost depressed and was really close to rebel against the very idea that there is any goodness in the world, because of this one fake ruining the good message (which ofc would be in healthier forms in other places, most of her "famous" sayings that all quote from her are from other people too...) from me. And it started from the moment when I realized that there isn't anyway to think otherwise than the "guru" and her "tribe" think, if you are too loud with your disagreement, especially since you are told that you can't judge what others think, but ofc, you are wrong in this. :) And ofc, you are supposed to believe without doubt in the UFOs and conspiracies and pseudo science, or you are at very least, not very wanted conversation companion, or other option, you will get huge wave of disapproval on you or get ignored/ cut off. So you are not appreciated as yourself, but have to fake all the time to stay "superior" in awesomeness. :) Otherwise you are told to "change the channel". :) (which makes me think how all these apocalyptic theories Kiesha talks nowadays are not giving the energy for negative, shouldn't she change the channel too?)
Anyway, all this stuff she "creates" is irrelevant to good living and getting happy or getting along with other people. Maybe the reason you aren't getting along with the "normal" people and need to change channel from them in the first place is, that you want to be superior to them... "Tribe" creates huge amount of people that think they are going to be the only ones worth while. Ofc there is many who really get the good part of the message as it should be too, but many are there, since it is the easy fix and salvation and puts you in the group of "awesome" people who will get further than the rest, bit like nazis and all. ;p

Ok, wasn't short. Anyway, her "teachings" weren't healthy for me in the end, am happy that I am out now that the "messages" get even more crazy... I started to doubt myself and my own worth since I couldn't be the ideal "triber" for a moment. Happily, I have always been bit of a rebel when it comes to any sort of people who are trying to tell me what to think, so... Think I finally learnt my lesson tho, better to look inside for real wisdom and check the claims when someone is too good to be true.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: educatedindian on November 28, 2010, 08:33:38 pm
Niels, first of all, welcome to the forum, and thanks for telling us of your experience. It is valuable for us to have firsthand accounts. I hope you'll take time to read the criticisms and think about them.

I don't see any need for me to repeat what others have said already. I just wanted to ask how you heard about Crowther and what made you think anything she said was genuine. You say that you weren't taken in or harmed by her, and that most others weren't also.

I have to wonder then, why did you go back two more times? How much did you pay? Wouldn't your time and money have been better spent doing something practical, like giving your time and money to a charity or cause that works to end the problems she discusses? Time spent on aiding the poor or the environment for example.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Spandex~Atom on November 29, 2010, 01:18:07 am
TYVM Saga  for being so frank, open, and sincere. I have felt the same way and experienced pretty much the same things and it helps to hear it from someone else too.

I was lucky enough to come accross this site (NAFPS) on my second day after watching what she had to say and feeling how much it 'resonated' with me. Also, I have a habit to selectively hear, which is a result of childhood abuse as well as suffer from depression. Life isn't all rosy as mush as people 'change the channel. That used to be called 'putting the blinkers on'.

Because the message I heard was overwhelmingly positive, and presented with gush-loads of love-vibes (she can be very charming can't she!), I was willing to 'overlook' inconsistencies, and put them to the back of my mind until I knew more about her. If it hadn't been for a site like NAFPS I wouldn't have been so able to follow the trail of falsehoods, or read how she hasn't been recognised by any genuine Native Americans. That's what initially did it for me. If she isn't recognised she hasn't got a leg to stand on and all else is based on a lie.

There were are several things she said that didn't sit right with me too (for instance her prophecies for 2010), but again, selective hearing is the con-artists best friend, and everyone is human right? Maybe she was being given false info....that disn't necessarily mean she was fake, right?... And this is what is so concerning. The type of people that will be hurt because of these fakers are people who have suffered and are most vulnerable, which is people who have been hurt before and have the trait to 'bottle away' the faults in others in order to hear what they need/want to hear, which is that the world can be a better place and we are all divine at heart and 'all will be well', no matter how bad it seems. It isn't unusual to go to great lengths, consciously and/or subconsciously in order to minimise Cognitive Dissonance (the uncomfortable state when reality doesn't conform to what you hold to be true.)  

Those who play on peoples emotions and set themselves up as having 'special knowledge' or a special channel to the wisdom of the ages, but are actually rooted in false claims,  are actually the enemy of truth and love, no matter how seductive their general message is, or how much truth it contains. That's exactly how cults work. If the message didn't resonate with a high percentage of truth, they couldn't draw in as many devotees. If people don't think they are devotees, they should read the posts.....Keisha this, Little Grandmother that, people are literally hanging on every word she says.

- Spandex


edited addition 16 dec 2010:
Important, please read:
I'm sorry Kiesha. I grew up on the Flathead reserve. All of my family are scattered every where there. I have them from Arlee all the way to Polson, going east to west, and no one knows of you. I have spoken with tribal elders who have no idea who you are. At pow wow, I asked around to see if you were made a shaman over our reserve and our people. I had people laugh in my face...............(click quote link to read in full)


Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Spandex~Atom on November 29, 2010, 01:48:37 am

Saga, I hope it's ok to quote several parts of your post separated with dots. I think it's crucial that people who think it's all ok as long as the message makes people happy understand the extreme danger in people setting themselves up as 'teachers' when they are actually rooted in deception.

Some of your words from your post on page 10:

".......... the messenger looked very sincere and her message comforted me at first......
 Then it started to change and I got confused. It didn't sound right to me,........
Then someone posted this site somewhere, and the base of my "happiness" was shaken pretty badly.
When you build on lies, your world will come down at some point, I guess... .....
At first it was all shame and hate and disappointment and feeling of being left alone in the dark again.........."

And thank goodness we found this site here, and had the capacity to be here and interact!
I haven't come accross very many people who really understand how shattering it can be for people who have depression and are spiritually inclined who are seeking 'like minded' spirits, to go through this sort of see-saw- of excitement/happiness/unity feeling and disillusionment/desolation/abandonment feelings.

I know that if I had been at my worst, which was several years back, and had spent more time believing and putting energy into the movement, then to find it fake and go through those negative withdrawal symptoms......it would have been a very bad thing for me as one of my coping mechanisms was cutting and burning myself in order to release the natural pain killers that give the feeling of peace. Now I just get angry because I know that there are many people who get hurt by con-artists who are just as vulnerable and will find it a long and painful road back to regaining their connection with hope, light and belief in love.

- Spandex
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Spandex~Atom on November 29, 2010, 07:00:11 am
Kiesha predicts:

"Places in Greece will be found with ancient computers."

(this is to happen in 2010)
2010 with Shaman, Kiesha Crowther 4/10
The prediction can be heard @ 4:42 min:sec here:  
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RjFdwKiXuHk&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RjFdwKiXuHk&feature=related)

What immediately springs to mind? I know what sprang to mine, lol........Ancient computers? Maybe from Atlantis!
I mean, it's a pretty wild sounding claim, and coming from someone who claims to have special knowledge passed on to her from spirit, they would sure know where stuff is hidden away by the ancestors.

Anyway, heres the sort of image I had in my mind, and I can't help thinking others might have had the same type of idea from this one startling sentence Kiesha just drops in to the list of amazing revelations with no further explanation:

(http://i1115.photobucket.com/albums/k558/SpandexAtom/parthenoncomputer.jpg)


The truth is that what Kiesha prophesied has allready happenned, which would explain where she got the idea from in the first place:

*(Crescent pointed this out in an earlier post at page 9 , Reply #134)*

It was recovered in 1900–01 from the Antikythera wreck,[3] but its complexity and significance were not understood until decades later.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antikythera_mechanism

(http://i1115.photobucket.com/albums/k558/SpandexAtom/antikythera.jpg)

Astronomy Picture of the Day
2006 December 5
Explanation: What is it? It was found at the bottom of the sea aboard an ancient Greek ship. Its seeming complexity has prompted decades of study, although many of its functions remained unknown. Recent X-rays of the device have now confirmed the nature of the Antikythera mechanism, and discovered several surprising functions. The Antikythera mechanism has been discovered to be a mechanical computer of an accuracy thought impossible in 80 BC, when the ship that carried it sunk. Such sophisticated technology was not thought to be developed by humanity for another 1,000 years. Its wheels and gears create a portable orrery of the sky that predicted star and planet locations as well as lunar and solar eclipses. The Antikythera mechanism, shown above, is 33 centimeters high and similar in size to a large book.
http://apod.nasa.gov/apod/ap061205.html



-Spandex
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Saga on November 29, 2010, 09:14:09 am
I was in denial a long time with the whole business, mostly with how much it did affect me after I finally was able to let myself think that it is really real that she isn't what she says she is. And the message is going so strong all around that I occasionally still think that maybe I am the one who is wrong. But I am getting my own world back together and the own thoughts where they should be, so getting easier to find what I need inside and not outside and finding my own truths and the truth of compassion and love in more practical levels and actually helping people. Of course it was pretty neat to think I am superior for a moment and think that I'd be above some things that are part of life. Which is quite huge attraction in "tribe's" message to many people. :p I have to say that I rather deal with people who are honest in their disagreements and not liking me than people that slap on the face with "I create my own life, so I am right here and love to you too", when everything screams that they are doing that to feel superior because they aren't coming down to your level and actually discuss and share opinions, no matter who is right or wrong. :)

Anyway, poor people are still paying to see someone that isn't what they are paying to see, which makes her (and practically anyone who sells insta fix spirituality) a paracite feeding on people's needs...

More I have made my own research around the subjects she now uses as parts of her speeches, ALL of the info has been out there to tap into for a while, some of it for a loooooong time, and since the "spiritual scenes" seems to be linked to each other (and to conspiracy sites), most of the info is repeated in many places at the same time as well. Which ofc makes it feel more true. And since most of the people have just recently "awakened", they have no idea what information is old and what is new and where it comes from.

"we must be the change, we want to see in the world" -Mahatma Gandhi
"Fighting for peace is like fucking for virginity" - Vietnam war times slogan, not sure from who originally
"it is none of my business what others may or may not think or say of me." or “What other people think about me is not my business.” Been used for ages as well... Michael J Fox, Andrew Kudiacik, Wayne Dyer....

Most of what she says is stated in somewhere else before her (and it is not in native american lore or tradition), not to mention that pretty big part of the humanity/science stuff comes from one source that she had linked herself in her fb profile couple of years ago...

EDIT: Oh and lots of my friends are totally under her influence too, they are changing the channel from all of the constructive critic towards her or the fact that they actually are being influenced (most are really strongly claiming that all that they do is following their own heart, which tells that Kiesha got it right of course, and then quote her word to word like she is the one telling absolute truths in the world, I used to do that too. :)) or the fact that her message is "borrowed" from many other sources... Some actually go that far that they make sure to delete any comments from their worship messages, if they are not in line with their own or Kiesha's thoughts or are telling that there would be something to consider in the message... How can you have a real conversation with a person who think that if you say something they feel isn't in line with the "teachings" or is "negative", they don't have to listen or consider it at all and it can be safely ignored? It is actually quite funny how many things hit this negative list, more or less all that make the "ego" threatened in person. :)

I asked Kiesha in the beginning, if she meant that we need to follow our own heart (the way I saw it), or her heart and her message and the way it told us to be (the way most of others seemed to think)... I never got answer, if not counting the little bit frustrated post in tribe forum (http://www.tribeofmanycolors.net/news-and-urgent-messages/after-scandinavia-trip.html) that told that we are equals, she just is the one that tells us the message and we need to listen with our hearts if it is true. Does anyone else see conflict here btw? In saying that we are all equals and then reminding of the "all knowing, connected with the spirit world and ancestors and recognized by all the indigenous people" title and the important message? I see it now, didn't before... It's so subtle in some cases and when you want to hear only the good things...
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: czech on November 29, 2010, 02:21:02 pm
Hello everybody,

I am happy I found this forum when I searched for information on Kiesha Crowther on Google. I was wondering if I would be able to find something negative as I felt confused after watching one of her videos that are now flooding the Czech Republic, too. Someone is taking the time and effort to translate and add Czech subtitles to them and I keep running into them on Facebook as well as in chain e-mail. People seem to embrace them without any judgment.

Like Saga and Spandex, I too was deeply touched by some of the (unrevelatory) truths, such as the need for being respectful to Mother Earth and animals. On the other hand, I found it disturbing that such obvious things moved me to tears, while others sounded, well, strange, to say the least. I thought - have I been hypnotized here? At the same time she reminded me of the American TV evangelists, only using a more modern means, youtube.

I also find it disturbing how people go all crazy about her. It may all result from a well meant search for deeper truths about life but that is no excuse for not using sound judgment. We really are naive and gullible - and it is dangerous.

I know that a similar thought has been said in one of the previous posts - she came to my mind immediately after I read this passage from a book by the contemporary Czech scientist and thinker Vaclav Cilek (which I consider important to share regardless of whether it applies to this case or not):

"What will the Hitler of the future be like? He will be different, deeper, and in some way spiritual. He will be strong and calling for the right things. Most probably he will be incorruptible and his analysis of the state of the society will be almost precise, but there will be something odd about him." (my translation)


Thanks for spreading information and warning to whoever wants to really know. I am thankful for the many intelligent and informed views posted here.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: critter - a white non-ndn person on November 29, 2010, 04:13:49 pm
Reading your replies, Saga, Spandex, Czech, and anyone else who may be lurking or reading thru these
threads. I just want to say that a good sign that something is truly wrong is when they do not want
you to look elsewhere or ask questions elsewhere or they refuse to use critical thinking skills.

Any *real* person will have no issues with someone questioning them, or bringing up the contradictions
in their story.

I had a similar experience with someone else, and it took my life totally off track for about 10 years.
In the end, I had a complete breakdown, and pretty much threw the middle finger at anything that
was even remotely spiritual in nature. It's been about 4 years of rebuilding my life, and 2 years since
the resulting attacks have been stopped.

What we feel within ourselves as our "own" spirituality, when that is abused, when that is taken
off track with lies, when it is teased with fake love and tempted into following.. that is similar
to killing a person, similar to taking away their life. It's taken me years to trust not just my own
inner senses again, but also, to trust what I call "spirit" itself.

So, for someone to come in here and claim it is not "dangerous" and we should have "fun" is
an insult, and apparently written by an idiot.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Peasant on November 29, 2010, 05:11:40 pm
Hi Czech,

Welcome to the forums. Thanks a lot for sharing your experience! As you can see you're not alone here, you're in good company. There a lot of similarities between what you, Saga, Spandex and i have posted here. I'm in my early 20's but i've also had a difficult childhood, and i had to cope with the recent loss of my sister, having no other brothers or sisters. So even though i have good friends and family members, for a while i felt very disillusioned with the world and didn't know what to do... then i stumbled upon Kiesha Crowther's videos and she told me what i wanted to hear. At first i didn't know anything about Native American spirituality, i didn't think Crowther's claims of tribal recognition could be lies, it all seemed very genuine and she seemed like a sweet and sensitive person. Sometimes i'm lucky to be hard-headed though, because i started noticing more and more inconsistencies, inaccurate information, and how there was not a single person of Native American descent active on her tribe forums. Just about only white people, mostly European. And finally, when she was asked in a radio interview what would happen in 2012 according to her, she said: "i say this with every bit of my knowing and every fiber of my being, people who are not living in the heart will not be able to cope with the new energies, to fully enlightened beings, death does not look like death". In other words, only her elite society of a spiritual master race, and perhaps some indigenous tribes and other New Agers, survive. Everyone else dies. That's when the house of cards collapsed for me. A little later, alleged Mayan elder Don Alejandro Cirilo Perez, which Kiesha Crowther has often laid claim to, denounced the whole 2012 construct (and narrowed it down to, according to him, an alignment of stars and planets which could cause some more natural disasters than normally), and after that i found these forums and started posting a few weeks later.

Niels, like educatedindian says, i really hope you will read the replies to your post and take the time to respond. I understand that the amount of criticism can seem overwhelming, but please try to look at things from the perspective of the other forum members here. I'm happy you're able to see the importance of these forums, i just hope you'll also see the importance of this topic.  ;)



Might i suggest though, that for now, we shift our attention back to tracing Kiesha Crowther's alleged lineage? If we can find Lakota people who are willing to look into it, we could either completely prove that all of it is fake, or find out who is in her mother's alleged 'Sioux Salish' tribe, and ask them for help to put a stop to this circus. I will send Ashla a message, asking if she can take a look at it, or knows someone who can.

(http://img820.imageshack.us/img820/5911/kieshacrowther.jpg)
ALLAKHAZAZZZ!
May the magic megalithic crystal guide us!

-

This video seems to be from early on in Crowther's shaman adventure, perhaps it will provide a clue:
Quote
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VocJYC-_u4M
First 10 seconds: "Hi, my name is Little Grandmother, and i was called to become a shaman for the Flathead [incomprehensible] reservation tribe of the Sioux and Salish."



Prophetic sayings of Keisha Crowther that follow are transcripted  parts of the video series - 2010 with Shaman, Kiesha Crowther

Link to video 1 of 10:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yK5OOfEmut4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yK5OOfEmut4)


2010 with Shaman, Kiesha Crowther 2/10 :
(Starting at 5:12  minutes/seconds into video)  
"....I carry the wisdom for Nine Pipes. He was a wisdom keeper that lived many hundreds of year- a couple hundred years ago. I am of the lineage of Spotted Owl. (pause) I am Chikala Uchi. (pause) I am Little Grandmother. (pause) I am great grand daughter of Chikala Lota and Chikala Jensen. (pause) I am daughter of Tinjan Chala and Father Mato....

This is the closest she's come that I know of to saying who her supposed relatives are. Still pretty vague and unclear, throwing out lots of names that sound impressive to people who aren't familiar.

Ninepipes (generally spelled as one word, not two) was a name or part of the names used by several Salish leaders. This was about 100-120 years ago, not "a couple hundred." They were some of the smaller chiefs, not known for being medicine people as far as I know, though likely respected as wise counselors.

If she claims Spotted Owl's lineage, that can be checked. He was from Pine Ridge. There's nothing on the other names I could find online, but saying who her great grandparents supposedly were should help.

I still find it very strange she hides who her alleged relatives are almost all the time.

---------------
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~mikestevens/2010-p/p299.htm
(?) Spotted Owl1,2,3,4  (M)
(1868 - ), #40948
Pop-up Pedigree
     Also known as (?) Hinhan Gleska.1,2,3,4 The nationality of (?) Spotted Owl was Oglala Lakota Sioux.1,2,3,4 (?) Spotted Owl was born in 1868.1,3,2,4 He was the son of (?) Shell Boy and (?) Hopper Horse.1,2 He was listed as "daughter" and residing in the home of (?) Shell Boy on the U.S. Indian Census Rolls taken on July 1, 1892 at Pine Ridge Indian Reservation, White Clay District, Shannon Co., South Dakota ., USA.1 He married Mary Hawk Woman after July 1, 1892.2,3,4 (?) was listed as the "Head of the Household" on the US Indian Census Rolls at Pine Ridge Indian Reservation, White Clay District, Shannon Co., South Dakota, USA, on July 1, 1894.2 (?) was listed as the "Head of the Household" on the US Indian Census Rolls at Pine Ridge Indian Reservation, Wounded Knee District, Shannon Co., South Dakota, USA, on June 25, 1895.3 (?) was listed as the "Head of the Household" on the US Indian Census Rolls at Pine Ridge Indian Reservation, Wounded Knee District, Shannon Co., South Dakota, USA, on June 30, 1896.4

Children of (?) Spotted Owl and Mary Hawk Woman
(?) Bloody Mouth b. Apr, 18932,4
(?) Sits In Sight b. Mar, 18964
Citations
[S556] 1892.
[S269] 1894.
[S561] June 30th 1895.
[S158] June 30th, 1896.



Quote from: Spandex~Atom
I am of the lineage of Spotted Owl. (pause) I am Chikala Uchi. (pause) I am Little Grandmother. (pause) I am great grand daughter of Chikala Lota and Chikala Jensen. (pause) I am daughter of Tinjan Chala and Father Mato

One of our Lakota friends here should have a look at the names, as Crowther means to use Lakota words.

However, she doesn't know her behind from a hole in the ground...

As one example: 'little' is ciqala, and 'grandmother' is unci. But 'Little Grandmother' will not translate in the way Crowther says - if I'm not mistaken, it's Unciciqala correctly.

Same then with the two other names, albeit it is somewhat strange her ancestors were all little somethings. If you understood this correctly, the second word in the second name could be 'luta', but this means read which does not make sense.

When she says she's the daughter of Tincancala (sp?) and Father Mahto - these names seem to be both taken from the Lakota language. Didn't Crowther claim one parent was Salish-Sioux and one was white? (Oh, perhaps this is another case of 'ndn by injection'....  :o )
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Spandex~Atom on November 29, 2010, 06:51:23 pm

Kiesha relates her alleged lineage here:
(starting at 6:11 minutes:seconds into the video)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ElesjTYmlc&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ElesjTYmlc&feature=related)


Here are Kiesha's statements about her lineage with the corrections suggested by educatedindian and Ingeborg, and also the possible correction of what I spelled as 'Lota', which may be 'Lootah'(?).


"....I carry the wisdom for Ninepipes. He was a wisdom keeper that lived many hundreds of year- a couple hundred years ago."


"I am of the lineage of Spotted Owl."
(see quotes from educatedindian below)


"I am Ciqala unci.I am Little Grandmother."
(see quotes from Ingeborg below)

 
"I am great grand daughter of Ciqala Lootah(?) and Ciqala Jensen. "
[In Native American, the name Lootah means- Red (Sioux).. Other origins for the name Lootah include - Native American, American.The name Lootah is most often used as a boy name or male name.
http://www.meaning-of-names.com/native-american-names/lootah.asp (http://www.meaning-of-names.com/native-american-names/lootah.asp)
Jensen Danish pronunciation: [?j?nsn] is a Danish and Norwegian originally patronymic surname, literally meaning son of Jens.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jensen_(surname) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jensen_(surname))


"I am daughter of Tincancala(?) and Father Mahto(?)"



This is the closest she's come that I know of to saying who her supposed relatives are. Still pretty vague and unclear, throwing out lots of names that sound impressive to people who aren't familiar.

Ninepipes (generally spelled as one word, not two) was a name or part of the names used by several Salish leaders. This was about 100-120 years ago, not "a couple hundred." They were some of the smaller chiefs, not known for being medicine people as far as I know, though likely respected as wise counselors.

If she claims Spotted Owl's lineage, that can be checked. He was from Pine Ridge. There's nothing on the other names I could find online, but saying who her great grandparents supposedly were should help.

I still find it very strange she hides who her alleged relatives are almost all the time.

---------------
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~mikestevens/2010-p/p299.htm
(?) Spotted Owl1,2,3,4  (M)
(1868 - ), #40948
Pop-up Pedigree
     Also known as (?) Hinhan Gleska.1,2,3,4 The nationality of (?) Spotted Owl was Oglala Lakota Sioux.1,2,3,4 (?) Spotted Owl was born in 1868.1,3,2,4 He was the son of (?) Shell Boy and (?) Hopper Horse.1,2 He was listed as "daughter" and residing in the home of (?) Shell Boy on the U.S. Indian Census Rolls taken on July 1, 1892 at Pine Ridge Indian Reservation, White Clay District, Shannon Co., South Dakota ., USA.1 He married Mary Hawk Woman after July 1, 1892.2,3,4 (?) was listed as the "Head of the Household" on the US Indian Census Rolls at Pine Ridge Indian Reservation, White Clay District, Shannon Co., South Dakota, USA, on July 1, 1894.2 (?) was listed as the "Head of the Household" on the US Indian Census Rolls at Pine Ridge Indian Reservation, Wounded Knee District, Shannon Co., South Dakota, USA, on June 25, 1895.3 (?) was listed as the "Head of the Household" on the US Indian Census Rolls at Pine Ridge Indian Reservation, Wounded Knee District, Shannon Co., South Dakota, USA, on June 30, 1896.4

Children of (?) Spotted Owl and Mary Hawk Woman
(?) Bloody Mouth b. Apr, 18932,4
(?) Sits In Sight b. Mar, 18964
Citations
[S556] 1892.
[S269] 1894.
[S561] June 30th 1895.
[S158] June 30th, 1896.

One of our Lakota friends here should have a look at the names, as Crowther means to use Lakota words.

However, she doesn't know her behind from a hole in the ground...

As one example: 'little' is ciqala, and 'grandmother' is unci. But 'Little Grandmother' will not translate in the way Crowther says - if I'm not mistaken, it's Unciciqala correctly.

Same then with the two other names, albeit it is somewhat strange her ancestors were all little somethings. If you understood this correctly, the second word in the second name could be 'luta', but this means read which does not make sense.

When she says she's the daughter of Tincancala (sp?) and Father Mahto - these names seem to be both taken from the Lakota language. Didn't Crowther claim one parent was Salish-Sioux and one was white? (Oh, perhaps this is another case of 'ndn by injection'....  :o )



Several days ago I posted a question at  PowWows.com where I joined a few years ago as CelticFire (I haven't visited the site except for a few occasions until now). This is the link with the responses:
http://www.powwows.com/gathering/native-issues/30327-exposing-fake-medicine-men-women-33.html

- Spandex
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Freija on November 29, 2010, 07:23:17 pm
Like many other people on this board, I´ve also been mesmerized by a so called spiritual leader. I´ve gone through it all - the denial,  the unwillingness to see the truth and finally the dark pitch you land in when you get too tired of defending the indefensible, when you just give in. And that´s when the guilt, the shame, the agony and the emptiness empowers you - because all your "friends" are now gone. And they weren´t even your friends in the first place.

But that´s why we are in here fighting. Maybe the journey through hell was meant to be because there are lots of members on this board who are dedicated to fight against racism, exploitation and charlatans just because they have made this journey.

Saying that what Kiesha does is not harmful is definitely untrue. It´s not only harmful to all those people who close down their own minds to follow her blindly. It is just as harmful to Natives, it´s a form of racism, trying to destroy all those bridges that so many of us are trying to build to increase the understanding and respect for Native cultures. She is harming Natives and non-Natives alike and she is totally correct when she says I AM - because, yes, it´s all about one single person.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Defend the Sacred on November 29, 2010, 07:47:48 pm
I agree that we should look into this alleged "lineage" of Crowther's, to thoroughly disprove it. But largely because these claims of hers may mean something to the non-Natives that are fooled by her. If you go back through the thread, you will see we have already had Salish and "Sioux" people who live on their reservations (and who know their relatives and the genealogy of their people) confirm that Crowther is unknown to the people there. The elders don't know her, the tribal offices don't know her, the native people she claims to represent are aghast at her lies.

If Crowther turns out to have a distant ancestor who is Native, it still doesn't matter. She is not part of the cultures she is claiming to speak for. The people do not acknowledge her.

So far all the names of living people she has given are either frauds, or in the case of legitimate people, they don't know her.


"I am great grand daughter of Ciqala Lootah(?) and Ciqala Jensen. "
[In Native American, the name Lootah means- Red (Sioux).. Other origins for the name Lootah include - Native American, American.The name Lootah is most often used as a boy name or male name.
http://www.meaning-of-names.com/native-american-names/lootah.asp (http://www.meaning-of-names.com/native-american-names/lootah.asp)

I don't speak the languages of the Nations Crowther claims to hail from, but that site is not a good source. There isn't just one "Native American" language; there are hundreds of languages. But maybe that sort of site is where Crowther or her handlers found the name.  ;)
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Spandex~Atom on November 30, 2010, 03:22:21 am
The Tower vision debunked


Youtube video - 2010 with Shaman, Kiesha Crowther 5/10
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P_3rCfWTiO8&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P_3rCfWTiO8&feature=related)
(starting at 3:05 minutes:seconds)
Kiesha informs us:
"There is something else that many of us have discussed and something we have seen with our own eyes. I will do my best to explain what it is I saw. There is a large tower made of pipe and wire, and on top of this which looks like a very tall thin pyramid, on top of it sits a large ball. It is next to very cold dark waters. It's not a lake, it's more like an ocean. And this machine is man-made. And it Has been made!. And it is very operational, functional, and it contains, the ability to produce enough energy for the entire planet. It is functional right now. This will be coming out very quickly."

Taking into consideration that Kiesha has allready mentioned Nicola Tesla, the above statement  becomes alot less mysterious and visionary sounding when we find that there is a striking resemblance to a picture (below) which isn't too difficult to find when looking into Tesla's work. There was really no need for her to try to do her best to describe it when she could easily have presented people with this artwork. Anyone taking his work as seriously as she says we all should in her video would have come accross this picture eventually, as it is at the website of the Tesla Society. The air of mystery that she manages to create is fascinating once we watch her performance knowing the scene is cover art of a music album by Allan Holdsworth. (Great Jazz)
As for it being operational, that wouldn't be a great surprise, knowing how some people like to keep their 'toys' secret. But the point is that she presented this in a way which leads her audience to look up to her and her associates as a channel of special knowledge, when in fact she is yet again drawing from something you can find on google if you have the time.

(http://i1115.photobucket.com/albums/k558/SpandexAtom/WardenclyffeTower.jpg)

The above picture is cover-art for this music:
ALLAN HOLDSWORTH, Wardenclyffe Tower, 1992.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PQlhC0lEKzw (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PQlhC0lEKzw)

A site about the Wardenclyffe Tower:
http://www.teslasociety.com/teslatower.htm (http://www.teslasociety.com/teslatower.htm)
"The Tower was designed as a world communications center and Nikola Tesla added to the project in that the tower would also be used for transmitting electrical energy without wires to the entire globe.  Tesla wanted to saturate the globe with electricity as a dynamo so that everyone on the surface of the globe could obtain electrical light just by sticking wires into the soil and a electrical bulb would light.  When J.P. Morgan heard about the Tesla project, he was asked: "How can we get money from the electricity which Tesla is supplying to every part of the world?"  After that Morgan cut the funds and the Tower was never finished."


- Spandex
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Defend the Sacred on November 30, 2010, 03:42:56 am
This is the tower (http://buffy.wikia.com/wiki/Tower) it made me think of

(http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100628042639/buffy/images/thumb/d/d5/Gift558.jpg/597px-Gift558.jpg)

    "The tower was built by crazy people and I don't think it's holding up very well"
     ~ Dawn Summers

And since the other mantra of that story was "Death is your gift"...

Is this what we can expect from Kiesha? Or is it what she's going to ask of her minions?

(http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20081206173637/buffy/images/7/7f/522_TheGift1.jpg)
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: ShadowDancer on November 30, 2010, 10:41:23 pm

Is this what we can expect from Kiesha? Or is it what she's going to ask of her minions?

I shudder to even think along this line.  However, you have brought up an interesting correlation.   :-\
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Saga on December 01, 2010, 06:57:44 am
I have to say that the same thing crossed my mind when I heard first time in one of the talks the words: "to fully enlightened beings, death does not look like death"... I have watched some vicious cult stuff and that sounded somewhat alarming. She talks about only "heart conscious" people going to "new earth", which was to me quite ugly idea, since if you talk about compassion and light, shouldn't it be given to those who actually needed -> the ones in "dark" and not the ones that already have plenty... When the idea of awesomeness group is joined with the talks about death... well, I instantly start to think the suicide or "starship will come to get us home" cults.

Maybe I am just pessimistic, but there is 2 years to go to "climax" and the talks are already getting more extreme and more crazy. She seems to add more in her talks all the time to get more followers, now there is the conspiracies and catastrophes and she has started to talk awful lot about god instead of saying that religion isn't needed. Kind of added the god in the soup with "we are all gods and goddesses". Also she seems to know exactly what to say and how much show to put into it in where ever she is performing.

And about the "origins". The addresses and stuff are in the thread, where to ask if she is who she is saying she is btw, will quote here (from Ashla, on page 7):
Quote
she claimed she was made shaman over the Salish tribe. the Salish don't know her. please phone their office and ask. as for her relations in CO my sister and cousin are working on this. they only know a bit of info on how the husband has taken her to court for sole custody of the children.
 
Confederated Salish & Kootenai Tribes
42487 Complex Blvd.
PO Box 278
Pablo, Montana 59855
Phone Numbers:
Headquarter: (406) 675-2700
Toll Free: (888) 835-8766
Fax: (406) 675-2806

and more numbers here, entire list
http://www.cskt.org/about/contactus.htm

Also, from Sky, on page 7:
Quote
Quote
Who Recognizes Her as Shaman?
Not only has Kiesha been recognized by her family’s tribe as a shaman; in addition, she has been recognized as shaman of the “Tribe of Many Colors” by the spiritual elders of many indigenous tribes and peoples including the Cherokee...
(my bold)

EBC has only a handful of Elders.  I spent last night talking to them on the phone.  They have never heard of Kiesha Crowther.  WolfHawaii knows the people I know, he can call and confirm my findings if he wants.  I called a few elders this morning as well, no knowledge of her.

In between moving I will call my friends with CNO and UKB.  My sis Robin knows people in CNO's legal dept, I will see if she can make a call while she is here helping me pack.

I also talked (and talked and talked) to my Tom Cheyenne, he's Lakota and he's pretty disturbed by this.  He distributes coats etc to Elders, elders and families on PR he's going to ask around when he makes his deliveries.

I will also ask Robin if she has any contacts in Colombus so that we can get some people out to the workshop November 20th.

Sky
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: critter - a white non-ndn person on December 01, 2010, 02:19:40 pm
Isn't that what Jim Jones was saying too about death? That for them, death wasn't death?  hmmm.. not a good sign. 
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: earthw7 on December 01, 2010, 06:48:03 pm
Just one point!

Lootha is not a Lakota word

we use Luta for scarlet
Ska for Red
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Peasant on December 01, 2010, 11:18:22 pm
I understand your concerns and the correlation they bring up Saga, and i really appreciate that you're doing your best to make people aware of what's going on. But i have to be very honest here and say that i think this is a little far-fetched. Crowther seems to believe that real Mayans support the 2012 movement (they do not, for anyone just visiting these forums). I get the impression she is becoming aware of this inaccuracy in her message, so maybe that's why she's bringing up Bernard Perona now (Drunvalo Melchizedek), as he's a proponent of the 2012 hoax (and is making millions at it, of course... his books and workshops are very lucrative). Her talk about how there would be some kind of energetic holocaust in 2012, and especially the way she behaves in her more recent shows, is indeed very scary, and it leads me to think she's suffering from some type of a psychosis (won't be much news to the forum regulars here, but just to support their viewpoints). I didn't recognize this at first because of the way she seemed to present herself at that moment; enthusiastic, sensitive and genuine. But as i explained before, that seemed to change over time, and now there's a lot more conspiracy and armageddon talk.

I'm pretty convinced however that she will never get to the point where she will start talking about such a thing. Her inner circle is not that crazy and the ' Tribe of Many Colors' is not a physical real-life cult (yet, i hope). And i think that when people who believe her message visit this forum just out of curiosity, and see us talking about worst-case-scenario speculation, they will laugh and never return.

Sorry, i'm not trying to be the leader of this topic here, and if you don't appreciate it, by all means go on with taking a look at every possibility. But may i suggest that, for the sake of visitors, we just return to facts here? Debunking her claims and tracing her lineage and stuff :)

By the way, Spandex, nice work on the tower vision stuff. I'm now trying to focus on Bernard Perona in a same way, as he seems to be Crowther's new 'evidence'.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Saga on December 02, 2010, 08:16:13 am
As I said in my post: It may be that I am just a pessimist and affected with the cult information programs I have watched and my alarms go off easily when there is mentioning about death in those cases. I am not suggesting that Kiesha would be that crazy. :) Only saying that anything could be possible seeing what has happened in the past. Just one very pessimistic possibility which I don't really think that would happen either, but can't help making the linking with the words. Especially after watching couple of reminders from the cult stuff lately, seems that our tv stations have decided that so close to 2012 it is good to remind us about world's end cults. :) I like to think her either misguided herself or indeed having created little bit too real fantasy to herself, or even myself being totally wrong too instead of what i said. :) Interpreting the words and the message part is ofc only speculation and it's effects on me only personal experiences.

And as you see, since this sites main purpose is to debunk the exploiters and fakes, I got back in the actual subject after that and quoted the answers from previous sites again, where Salish and Cherokee say that their people don't know her, there's emails and all there too in addition to phonenumbers, to Salish/Kootenai office. Related to her lists of how many tribes recognizes her work. I am sorry to let my imagination run loose there for a while. :)

Also, she has posted this to her profile in fb:
"I am truly appalled at what has been written about me and family members on the fraud site and am ready to take any and all legal means necessary to stop these blatant lies and allegations. I can handle being made fun of but this has gone to far!"
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Spandex~Atom on December 02, 2010, 09:05:35 am
Also, she has posted this to her profile in fb:
"I am truly appalled at what has been written about me and family members on the fraud site and am ready to take any and all legal means necessary to stop these blatant lies and allegations. I can handle being made fun of but this has gone to far!"

That would be interesting!

She would have to provide evidence in court that the claims she professes about herself and her credentials are all true and she isn't making anything up. That's what we want her to do! lol.

- Spandex


edited addition 16 dec 2010:
Important, please read:
I'm sorry Kiesha. I grew up on the Flathead reserve. All of my family are scattered every where there. I have them from Arlee all the way to Polson, going east to west, and no one knows of you. I have spoken with tribal elders who have no idea who you are. At pow wow, I asked around to see if you were made a shaman over our reserve and our people. I had people laugh in my face...............(click quote link to read in full)


Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Saga on December 02, 2010, 09:19:44 am
It would be so easy to just tell the names and show the proof, if being what she say she is. :)
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Peasant on December 02, 2010, 10:00:33 am
It would be so easy to just tell the names and show the proof, if being what she say she is. :)

^ THIS ^

Why would she need to take legal action if she is for real? I think she's starting to realize how valid the points we're bringing up here are. "Changing the channel" is obviously no working for her and her Tribe.

By the way, there is also a thread on a forum called Godlikeproductions where people are debunking her. A pretty 'wild' forum, but the people there are aware of NAFPS.
http://www.godlikeproductions.com/forum1/message1264576/pg1
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Saga on December 02, 2010, 10:33:10 am
Oh btw, I read one of the urgent messages again from her site: "Not only has Kiesha been recognized by her family’s tribe as a shaman; in addition, she has been recognized as shaman of the “Tribe of Many Colors” by the spiritual elders of many indigenous tribes and peoples including the Cherokee, the Cheyenne, the Hopi, the Inuit, the Aboriginal people, the Waitaha, the Maori, the Maya, the Zulu, as well as the lamas of Nepal and Tibet. Gifts and medicine from these peoples began coming soon after she was initiated as shaman at age 30 and have been coming ever since. These peoples regard her as the incarnation of something very important—which Keisha has never wanted to make public or to give weight to."...
(EDIT: I mean this site: http://littlegrandmother.net/URGENTMESSAGEFROMLG.aspx which unfortunately makes me want to believe the stuff said there still and start to defense her with "but that text even says it that she is not claiming to use the traditional teachings" altho I still realise that she still "sells" the message with claiming to be recognized by the indigenous people, no matter where the message comes from and how traditional it is)

Anyway, I wrote to salish office (hopefully in the right place too :p) and asked about her, altho I feel really stupid about doing so. I just want to set the records straight from my behalf at least, so that I don't have to doubt things anymore (since no one else probably believes the answer if I tell them it, when/if I get any and it is proving all in here right). Official answer is sometimes needed when getting confused, altho I more or less trust the people that have said that they have asked around in their tribes and no one knows her...
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Saga on December 02, 2010, 11:51:07 am
Quote
By the way, there is also a thread on a forum called Godlikeproductions where people are debunking her. A pretty 'wild' forum, but the people there are aware of NAFPS.
http://www.godlikeproductions.com/forum1/message1264576/pg1

I read some of it, this was interesting post: "I really get a kick out of the person who thinks he is reincarnated Native American, Native Americans don't even believe in reincarnation, why doesn't she just say she is a new Age person here to tell her followers a message of hope and love, why tell them something that someone will prove is a lie, then she will be labeled as a fraud, I live in Hawaii and on her site she says she came to Maui and the kahuna's have had a prophecy of a blond girl coming to their land and finding the crystals , or something this blond girl was suppose to do, anyway I have never heard of such a thing . The Hawaiians wouldnt have any thing to do with white people in there old ways, and crystals are not found over here in Hawaii, lots of lava rock but no crystal, so what power would a crystal have here?But look guy how can you even talk like you know anything when you have no blood or have lived with the real Native Americans? reincarnated American Indian, what down right bull, you know how much of a fool you sound like? and anyone can sit and talk about Mother Earth dying, we all know that, Always dig into someones past before you follow someone blindly, and yes why ask for money to spread love to Mother Earth, cant she have a job and still spread the word? Sounds like a New Age cult, and thats OK but dont say you are something your not"

I read a while ago that lots of the Hawaiian "kahunas" are fakes too and kind of a "tourist attraction" and ofc selling the spirituality there...

Anyway, it is interesting how people think that they can just swim through the life without getting caught with the lies they left behind...
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Spandex~Atom on December 02, 2010, 12:46:26 pm
Thanks Crescent, yeah, Bernard Piranah Perona is a real piece of work!
______________


I think it's a good idea to put transcripts of Kiesha's actual words here so that they will go on record and be easier to study for anyone searching for this information on the internet. Nothing matches actually experiencing it first hand though. This stuff is magnificently designed to inculcate followers.
Kiesha speaks on 2012[b/]
by kedarvideo
http://vimeo.com/16830337 (http://vimeo.com/16830337)
It is also featured on Kiesha's site:
http://www.tribeofmanycolors.net/videos-and-audios/featured.html (http://www.tribeofmanycolors.net/videos-and-audios/featured.html)

(Below is a complete transcript of video above, which is an edited compilation of parts of her talk in Zurich in early November 2010 when Kiesha Crowther spoke about 2012, the expected pole shift and how people should prepare themselves.)

"We live in a magical time. The most amazing time on planet Earth to ever be. She is going to be reborn into her full glory. Her heavenly self. The change has allready started and we have the opportunity to enlighten with her.  We literally have two years to change the way we are. There are thousands of books about two thousand and twelve out there, and we learned so many different things, but do you know the Mayan people, the only people who have lived through a pole shift before, have only started talking a couple of months ago, and they are saying "Do not have fear. Rejoice inside of your hearts because it is going to be beautiful."   We have an opportunity to go foreward in humanity, becoming enlightened. And when you are enlightened all things make sense, and you live from the heart. Do you know now that we use less than a third of our brains? Very soon we will be gifted all of that. The things we fear now is just because we do not understand it....but when you become enlightened, all things fall together, and there is nothing to fear. Grandfather Alejandro, the grandfather of all Mayan people says "the very walls we see falling around us are only the walls that kept us in prison, and we should be excited and rejoice and be happy to step out." That which you give your energy and your emotion to becomes your reality. It is every humans gift.  Whatever you give your emotion to becomes reality for you. In the next couple of years many things are going to change. We can stay in fear because we do not know what is coming, and you will live in fear, but if you stay in your heart and you are excited for what is coming, then you will live in joy. Again, there is nothing to fear. If you knew tomorrow the whole world would change for something much more beautiful, would you be afraid? Heaven on Earth is coming, and we can live on Heaven. It is our choice. If you stay in your heart and be love, you will enlighten and go with Mother Earth to something higher. It is said by the Mayan people, who have lived through a pole change before, that the full change only happens within several minutes, it's very fast, but there will be a couple of days of full darkness, and it is at this time that it is very important for us to stay in the heart. Gather your families and just be 'in' love and stay calm. Do not give over to fear. It's all going to be ok. And when the Sun rises again you will see a new Earth, and everything will make sense. We will become enlightened. We will move foreward in a new humanity, one that is ruled by love. Many people do not understand how the world will shift, and it brings us alot of fear wondering if there will be mass destruction. There will be some natural disasters, but when have humanity not lived through natural disaster. It happens all the time. Planet Earth has a very hard centre, and around the planet is hot lava, much like a ball bearing with grease around it. And the crust of the Earth sits on top of that 'grease' or that lava. And when the poles change 'everything' will not move. The centre will hold strong and the crust of the Earth will simply move. It's not going to be as tragic as we all think. Mother will stretch and move and fall into her perfect state. And Heaven will truly be here. And we will see and live in that state as well. The shift has allready begun. The poles are allready starting to move. A large ammount of energies are coming to planet Earth. Because I can see energy I can see when the energies come. Our science can take readings of how much energy is in the Earth, and do you know in the last year it has more than tripled. Large ammount of energies are coming to planet Earth, and they are coming in short intervals to give us time to digest these new energies. Some of us are feeling the, the side-affects of these new energies coming. Our bodies are simply trying to work through these new energies that are coming, and we are digesting them. When the big shift happens a ton of Energy will come to planet Earth, and if we were not given little bits at a time to get used to it our human bodies would die. But it is true it is allready started. Mother Earth and the human bodies now have more energy vibrating in them than ever before. Too many of us on planet Earth think 'well this is a story that the indiginous have been saying for a long time, but we do not realise it is really happening now! The world is changing. Our bodies are changing. Our DNA structure is actually changing. It is real. We will experience this shift. We are the ones who will be alive during the change and it really is up to us to change the way we live. If we do not change and stay living from the mind and ego we will be removed, because we are killing Mother Earth. It is a Universal Law that Mother Earth will go on, but it is up to us wether we go with her or not. All we are asked to do is be Love. That is it. It is so easy. And your soul will always lead you in the right direction. Always."

The video is well put together. The inspirational music, singing, and paradisaical artwork, together with Kiesha's soft dulcet tones, achieve an almost hypnotic effect that will no doubt inspire believers to stay 'in Love' when the great shift occurs and the people living in fear are cleansed from the Earth-Heaven destined for the 'enlightened' souls.

The fuller version of the Zurich workshop:
Kiesha in Zurich
by kedarvideo
http://vimeo.com/16812713 (http://vimeo.com/16812713)

 A version is also featured on Kiesha's site:
0 Kiesha in Zurich part 1
http://www.tribeofmanycolors.net/videos-and-audios/featured.html (http://www.tribeofmanycolors.net/videos-and-audios/featured.html)
Here are some excerpts:

At 1:38 minutes:seconds:
" My name is Kiesha Crowther and I come from a very very small town in Collorado"
At 2:52:
"...but when I turned 30 I recieved a phonecall from the Indiginous tribes of North America, and an Elder told me they knew I was being taught by the other side since a very young age. And they told me it was time for me to become the one to be called Little Grandmother and become a shaman and a wisdom-teacher, and that there were others just like me. There were eleven others, wisdom keepers who were just like me recieving the same messages and we had a very important role to play on Planet Earth.................I am here to teach you about the lessons I was taught, from the other side, from Mother Earth, and from my Indigenous Elders, The Continental Council of Indiginous Elders."
At 5:30:
"...........these peoples prophecies for hundreds of years have been talking about a time on our planet when the poles would shift again, and now it is upon us........for hundreds and hundreds of years the prophecies from indigenous tribal people have been saying "a time would come when Mother Earth would shift and be reborn into her Heaven...(video edit/cut)...and at this time, the people living on planet Earth would have to switch from living a mind-consciousness into a heart-consciousness if they wish to 'enlighten' during this shift...(video edit/cut)...they spoke of a people who would come to the planet, the strongest of the strong of all souls and all spirits to arrive...(cut)...and these people would shift the consciousness from mind-consciousness into heart-consciousness, and change the world...(cut)...and these people would be called 'The Tribe of Many Colours'...(cut)...and we are The Tribe of Many Colours...(cut)...it is us that they were talking about...(video edit/cut)...we are the ones we have been waiting for...(cut)...the pole shift is happening, it is not going to happen, it has allready begun...(cut)...it is no longer a story the Elders are saying will happen, they are saying it Is happening ...(cut).....due north is no longer due north. It is changing all over the planet...(cut)... and the poles will not stop shifting until it is completely shifted....(cut)... "
7:40
"...the ozone layer Is dissappearing. The planets temperature has risen in 2 degrees. ...(cut)... although 2 degrees does not affect the human body it affects wildlife immensely..." (goes on to explain while tears come to her eyes how everything is going wrong in many ways and how the sea life is dying in great ammounts)
10:00
(about the gulf oil spill):"....underneath where it spilled ...(cut)... is a chamber larger than Mt.Everest ...(cut)... full of oil and toxic gas ...(cut)... that is large enough to split North America in two ...(video edit/cut)... even if the smallest ammount of gas leaks out...(cut)... it will kill life in 20 miles inward of land automatically ...(cut)...and that's just if the smallest ammount leaks out...(cut)..."
10:58
"...it is a Universal Law that Mother Earth is sacred to all beings ...(cut)...and it is a Universal Law that Mother Earth will go on ...(cut)...but that humanity will be removed before we kill her ...(cut)...and so now we realise how important the next couple of years are ...(cut)...the poles are allready shifting...(cut)...she will be reborn ...(cut)...but if we wish to go with her we must start living from the heart...(cut)...the more loving you are, the more intelligent you become...(cut)...it is our only chance...(cut)...this is not a story, this is really happening, this is real...(cut)...so many of us are going throughout our days not even being aware of what is happening...(cut)...but this is happening...(cut)..."
11:48
"instead of living in fear...(cut)...what the grandfathers are telling us is is to start living from the heart...(cut)...because the more loving you are, the more intelligent you become...(cut)...if we start being love...(cut)...we get the answers of how to save our planet, and we get to stay...(cut)...if we do not, our children will not have a future...(cut)...this really Is our situation...(cut)..."
12:38
"you were chose...(cut)...because it is said that we are the strongest of the strong souls ever to be on planet Earth...(cut)..."....etc etc



The disjointed video edits increase in frequency and visual dissonance, especially with the introduction of quick transition effects. (creating cognitive dissonance is a technique used to induce suggestability)Together with the photo flashes and the monotone speech, intense repetition , etc, it all adds to a very hypnotic state inducing piece of work, imo. This is so obvious to me that I believe it's too much of a stretch of the imagination to believe it is accidental or unintentional.
In my inexpert laymans opinion, this is a cult-style brainwashing video, unintentional or not.


Kiesha seems to be confusing magnetic shift with crustal shift.
For a more accurate view of 'pole shifts':
Cataclysmic pole shift hypothesis:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cataclysmic_pole_shift_hypothesis (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cataclysmic_pole_shift_hypothesis)
Mayans Say World WONT End in 2012:
http://www.newagefraud.org/smf/index.php?topic=2385.0 (http://www.newagefraud.org/smf/index.php?topic=2385.0)


I find this 'enlightening':
"...but when I turned 30 I recieved a phonecall from the Indiginous tribes of North America, and an Elder told me they knew I was being taught by the other side since a very young age. And they told me it was time for me to become the one to be called Little Grandmother and become a shaman and a wisdom-teacher, and that there were others just like me. There were eleven others, wisdom keepers who were just like me recieving the same messages and we had a very important role to play on Planet Earth.................I am here to teach you about the lessons I was taught, from the other side, from Mother Earth, and from my Indigenous Elders, The Continental Council of Indiginous Elders."

She seems to be saying that the elder that contacted her and convinced her that she had this calling was one of the Continental Council of Indiginous Elders.

I may be wrong, but to me she gives the impression that she believes alot of the stuff she is saying in her talks, whatever her other motivations are. It's almost as if she has been indocrinated in a variety of topics which are popular in the new-age scene, but hasn't actually taken the time to check out the information properly for herself, and is willing to pass on what she has been told without critical thinking, working from the heart and simply trusting her mentors/elders/felow wisdom-keepers(who remain veiled in secrecy).

One of the influences in her life is Bernard Perona (aka Drunvalo Melchizedek) who she calls 'brother'. I've watched some of his video presentations, and have to say that to anyone who leans toward the nuage reality script who is trusting and working from the heart without critical thinking faculties switched full on, he could be very convincing. He holds 'Living in the Heart' workshops, which is the almost exact phrase used by Kiesha when she repeatedly advises us to 'Live from the Heart'. Is this just a coincidence?

Just to reiterate, Drunvalo Melchizedek is a long-time ICA supporter and associate of Adam DeArmon (aka Adam  Yellowbird). Adam is president of The Institute For Cultural Awareness and member of The Continental Council Of Indigenous Elders ( in her own words, 'her' Elders and teachers). He created “The Return Of the Ancestors Gathering”
Kiesha's video 'The Return of the Ancestors' is in keeping with the nuage doctrine they promote.
It's almost as if these guys found a willing puppet to promote their paradigm (which includes getting people to pay alot of money for their services).

There is no better puppet/spokesperson/salesperson than one who can be convinced what they are saying is all true. This type of puppet, by 'speaking from the heart' can easily fool people who are just using their hearts to sense if there is any decietful intent, because there isn't any.
So what I'm proposing is the possibility that Kiesha might have been unwittingly indocrinated into the role she is now playing, and could actually believe it is all true.

Maybe she doesn't realise that just because people say it's true doesn't make it so, especialy where there are cracks in the story and they insist you rely on your heart alone and not use your mind-consciousness. Just because people hold meetings on the astral plane or whatever you want to call it, doesn't make what they present true, any more than watching a well scripted movie is necessarily true. The idea that the Heart never lies is misleading. Some peoples hearts are full of darkness and illusions, and they can turn on the appropriate emotions at will, just like a good actor. Some spirits are tricksters.

If she isn't afraid of the message, and has taken the message she relays to us into her heart and made it real :
"Do not have fear. Rejoice inside of your hearts because it is going to be beautiful."
........then why is she so sad when she speaks of the shift, almost to the point of tears when she gives the impassioned plea, "...if we start being love...(cut)...we get the answers of how to save our planet, and we get to stay...(cut)...if we do not, our children will not have a future...(cut)...this really Is our situation...(cut)..."
Instead, we see someone who looks upset, and fearful about a future she sees where many people will literally be destroyed because they don't 'fit the vibration' of the new Heaven on Earth. This is like the emotional conflict of someone who has been indocrinated into a cult which promises salvation, only to find that it also predicts death for many of the ones they love, just because they don't 'get it'.

If this is the case, we know what she is going through, and the sooner she distances herself from her 'masters' the better.

I just like to give people some benefit of the doubt.

-Spandex
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Saga on December 02, 2010, 01:13:27 pm
That is possibility for sure, that she is being a puppet and will have the same not so comfortable fate of starting to doubt everything when she realizes it...

I am just hoping to get the answer to my post as soon as possible so I can have the answer in the most crucial question of how much of a fake her created role is. Most of the message in the form it is now, is bs to me anyway now...

So people in the forum, how does it feel to be puppets of the "dark side"? I just read from the posts of the followers that we are those. Following the agenda of "dark ones" to most definately break the world in pieces or something...

For me it was of course way more darker experience to find out that the shiny things that were talked about were not gold after all tho, and now i have to start digging the REAL gold again after noticing that someone has filled up the hole I already managed to dig in the ground to reveal truths, integrity and positive thinking before I had ever heard of Kiesha Crowther...
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Spandex~Atom on December 02, 2010, 01:30:37 pm
So people in the forum, how does it feel to be puppets of the "dark side"? I just read from the posts of the followers that we are those. Following the agenda of "dark ones" to most definately break the world in pieces or something...

It feels like this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3eZBevXohCI
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Peasant on December 02, 2010, 05:13:30 pm
There's one thing i want to make clear though; there is just one of the 'conspiracies' Crowther is talking about which is not far-fetched, it seems to be very real.

http://foodfreedom.wordpress.com/2010/04/24/s-510-is-hissing-in-the-grass/

This is the reason why i don't buy from 9 out of 10 big food corporations. They really seem to want to put a stop to cultivating organic foods and naturally harvesting seeds in the US, amongst other things.

I think nothing can be more dangerous than giving away your freedom to decide what to eat. The notion that natural, self-cultivated, organic food is more dangerous than unstable genetically modified crops, which get covered with gallons of Round-Up and have to be genetically twisted around even more every 5 years to withstand even more poison, because the plant-diseases and insects can build up a resistance to this poison in such a short time, a poison which is a direct descendant from Agent Orange (both were/are made by Monsanto)... are you kidding me.

Sounds too far-fetched to be true? Like i said before, watch the documentary Food, Inc (truly, a must see): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5eKYyD14d_0

EDIT: apparently a decision was made to put a stop to this madness. Doesn't mean that we don't have to watch for these kind of things in the future though...
http://nation.foxnews.com/congress/2010/12/01/congress-screws-food-bill

Ok, well now that that's clear, lol... let's continue focusing on Crowther.



Thanks for providing another excellent post Spandex, crazy stuff. You're right about the cognitive dissonance... that's what i was trying to convey as well, but i struggled to find the words.

Quote
There is no better puppet/spokesperson/salesperson than one who can be convinced what they are saying is all true. This type of puppet, by 'speaking from the heart' can easily fool people who are just using their hearts to sense if there is any decietful intent, because there isn't any.
So what I'm proposing is the possibility that Kiesha might have been unwittingly indocrinated into the role she is now playing, and could actually believe it is all true.

Maybe she doesn't realise that just because people say it's true doesn't make it so, especialy where there are cracks in the story and they insist you rely on your heart alone and not use your mind-consciousness. Just because people hold meetings on the astral plane or whatever you want to call it, doesn't make what they present true, any more than watching a well scripted movie is necessarily true. The idea that the Heart never lies is misleading. Some peoples hearts are full of darkness and illusions, and they can turn on the appropriate emotions at will, just like a good actor. Some spirits are tricksters.

This is just about exactly my view as well. Don't think she's really out to make money, though she is out to get as many followers as possible of course. I do think she could be very good at misleading people, knowing just what to say to get people behind her, and appearing innocent. A survival mechanism from her youth, if her talk about her difficult childhood is real (seems plausible to me). And like i've said before, about the phone call she received from the 'Continental Council of Ingenious Exploiters Indigenous Elders', people of which i'm 99% certain she has been in contact with them before, as she does not specifically state that the phone call came out of nowhere... If it would have, i think she would bring it up every single time she talks about how her shaman adventure started, that's just how she is. She just wanted to believe it so much, that she simply seems to have washed her discernment down the drain.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Saga on December 02, 2010, 07:01:57 pm
"I think one of the best ways we can support and make Kiesha stronger in this moment of "blatant lies and allegations" is to donate as much money as we can ,so she can hire a lawyer to take emmidiate action to put this slander to a STOP..."

......

So no followers?

I think I want to go now and quietly throw up, this all is too much for me. Call me after 2012. :p
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: ShadowDancer on December 02, 2010, 09:40:44 pm

I think it's a good idea to put transcripts of Kiesha's actual words here so that they will go on record and be easier to study for anyone searching for this information on the internet. Nothing matches actually experiencing it first hand though. This stuff is magnificently designed to inculcate followers.
-Spandex


Something to consider in addition to posting transcripts and links is to use a site like FreezePage (http://www.freezepage.com/) in order to have timestamped unalterable copies of webpages.   Here is a link to their FAQ page (http://www.freezepage.com/faq.htm) which explains how the service works.  There is no cost.

Too often a website will be modified invalidating evidence of what had been posted or written.  In the event of lawsuits or requests to provide proof, being able to pull a file from FreezePage will be enough to have the accuser back down.

We can have all sorts of information posted here which we say came from her site, but she can easily go in and delete it, remove/modify URLs to make them break, then claim it is being made up to libel her.

Just a thought.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: jjflash on December 03, 2010, 12:45:35 am
Something to consider in addition to posting transcripts and links is to use a site like FreezePage (http://www.freezepage.com/) in order to have timestamped unalterable copies of webpages.   Here is a link to their FAQ page (http://www.freezepage.com/faq.htm) which explains how the service works.  There is no cost.

Thank you for posting that info, ShadowDancer. It is indeed interesting and potentially useful for any number of situations.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: nemesis on December 03, 2010, 09:26:05 am
I am familiar with these workshops called "living in the heart", "opening the heart", "awakening the heart" etc.

There is a lot of it about and it is a con man's dream.

Basically vulnerable, naive people are told that "big changes" are going to happen in 2012 and that the "old ways of being" (thinking with the brain / mind, being concerned about the future, worrying about money and material things, worrying about what other people think) are bad.  

In order to survive 2012 people need to awaken the heart / live in the heart / open the heart / whatever.  

This means

1. living in the "now" and not worrying about the future (effectively relinquishing your mental capacity for discernment and critical thinking)

2. relinquishing material things - who needs money and material things when 2012 is just around the corner?

3. understanding that what we think is reality is just a dream / illusion

4. becoming "open" to new realities (no matter how incredible they sound)

5. rejecting external pressures from society, friends and family so you can be your "true self"

6. following a spiritual guru / leader (who kindly agrees to relieve you of the burden of your material things).  You learn unconditional love from obedience and devotion to your guru regardless of whatever bad things he or she may do to you.  

7. burning karma / working off your karmic debt.  The guru will give you tasks, challenges and ordeals to undertake that will help to cleanse you of bad karma accumulated over many lifetimes, in preparation for the big changes in 2012.

8. going to live in a spiritual community so as to devote yourself to spiritual pursuits.  By this time you have no money, no home, no car, nothing.  Your guru has everything that was once yours and now he owns you too.  You can be put to work in a factory, picking cotton, even working in a brothel, all unpaid and all in the cause of paying off your karmic debt.  If you don't like it, tough.  You have nowhere to go to and no money to get there even if you did.  Welcome to slavery, 21st century style.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Raven_in_ns on December 03, 2010, 12:07:02 pm
Quote
By the way, there is also a thread on a forum called Godlikeproductions where people are debunking her. A pretty 'wild' forum, but the people there are aware of NAFPS.
http://www.godlikeproductions.com/forum1/message1264576/pg1

I've participated in this forum.

The crap that some spew out is incredible, really.

Shamans, OMG, my Auntie would just spit, lol lol

On the bright side, there are folks who "get it".

Cheers, Raven
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Superdog on December 03, 2010, 04:01:35 pm
Interesting thread with some recent posts.  One of them says they met her in 2005 and describes a little bit about the 12 Wisdomkeepers.  Her story seems to be unravelling a little bit with this info....

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=145699

On page 2, Post 17:

"how old is kiesha?
I met her as it happens in may 2005 in a small village in uk. It was a block of terraces that had been broken through to form a complex...it was the day she and 11 others arrived there. They all believed themselves to be the first 12 chosen and had arrived on what they also believed to be telepathic command. My reasons for knocking on the door were totally different...i was following a code i'd found in the lords prayer and wondered what would happen if i took the message it contained literally, so i got on a plane to bristol then a bus to the location named on the first of the dates given...the message had a few possible interpretations so i followed em all, all gave me an experience which has led me to insights of coming events, one took me to this complex where i was let in unquestioningly...and was shown to a room made to BE a cloud all white and full of clouds , painted and otherwise created and wings everywhere...felt very uncomfortable and wondering how to get out again ...was offered a cup of tea...yes please...which kind? oh just ordinary thanks...reaction...looking at each other in disbelief..etc etc...then the 12th arrived making 13 and i was kicked out on my ear to my great relief.....lol....there was a huge organization behind this and i ran into research years later that made me remember that incident and recognize the mind control behavior of the 12 women there, suddenly realizing that what they had thought oof themselves as telepathic command was chips in their brains. I stumbled acrossd keisha vids a few days ago and recognized her immediately. Does anyone know how old she claims to be now because in the zurich vid ..part 2 she says she got a call on her 30th birthday telling her of the existance of the other 11, so if thats true that was pre 2005 because when i met her in may 2005 that was the day she and the other 11 came together at that compleex in sw uk."
Last edited by cartamandua; 28-11-2010 at 02:01 PM.


Definitely a contradiction to the personal story she's telling now.  I know some of the information doesn't seem to make sense so it's tough to say how valid it all is, but it was followed by a poster asking a lot of questions about it and I'm hoping they'll come back and give answers.

Superdog
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Freija on December 03, 2010, 05:04:39 pm

http://www.vimeo.com/17023911

In this video she makes some claims that would be very easy to check.
She says that in the beginning of October, China and New York had to close down their airports due to too many spaceships (discs) in the sky. (Did I totally miss this or is spaceships hindering the regular airtraffic not big news?)

She says that NASA has sent out a message about the coding of our DNA, the structure of Mother Earth and our bodies - and NASA received a message back with the DNA of the starpeople and the structure of their planet. (Which is...where....??)

She says that the crystals she is burying all around the world must be buried in leylines. Then you will see a map showing the leylines which seem to be everywhere apart from in Scandinavia. Not a single line in Sweden  :'(  (I think some people will be very disappointed....) Yet she comes here and buries one of the biggest crystals, according to people who attended.  (She talks about it in the video).  Maybe she should try to calibrate her info better. Or at least explain why she contradicts herself.
         
I only watched half of the video, sorry but can´t digest much more.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Spandex~Atom on December 03, 2010, 08:03:38 pm

http://www.vimeo.com/17023911
"She says that in the beginning of October, China and New York had to close down their airports due to too many spaceships (discs) in the sky."

As for UFO's shutting down airports:
http://shanghaiist.com/2010/09/07/ufo_spotted_hovering_for_three_hour.php
http://www.thetotalcollapse.com/us-shuts-down-new-york-city-airspace-over-ufo-threat/
Alot of this type of stuff gets missed unless you're a UFO groupie (ok I admit it, lol) looking for the news (accurate or not).

Knowing this type of stuff doesn't give you credibility by association, which is a logical fallacy many con artists use to impress their sheeple.

THESE are large crystals:
http://www.healingtaoretreats.com/images/giantcrystal.jpg
http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/PZojT4CfRQwj0WiJlZCyTA
http://cubeme.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2008/10/naica_world_largest_crystal_cave4.jpg
http://i.telegraph.co.uk/telegraph/multimedia/archive/01016/crystal_1016048c.jpg

The Earth is full of enormous crystals. If we are talking about a planetary scale form of acupuncture then I find it dubious that several  crystals (at a few hundred dollars each) planted at the chakra points, or whatever you want to call them, is going to be sufficient, considering the vast ammounts of crystals allready in the Earth that are allready working in this respect. If that's the goal, maybe a large pyramid made with crystal-included stone would be better? ::)
Anyone with the cash can plant a crystal of that size. It isn't an impressive thing to do. I once had one of similar size myself before I gave it away. With the ammount the clients are charged for these events by the organisers,  I would have expected the participants to be treated to a nice size crystal each to plant along with the special one, maybe in some sort of special grid matrix inspired by a channeled message from an important sounding entity or well respected Elder of the past.

Will they be returning each year to do repeat ceremonies or is these just 'hit and run' rituals?

- Spandex





Important, please read:

Official Statement from Salish Elders Regarding Kiesha Crowther
(click on link above this quote box to read in full)  

I'm sorry Kiesha. I grew up on the Flathead reserve. All of my family are scattered every where there. I have them from Arlee all the way to Polson, going east to west, and no one knows of you. I have spoken with tribal elders who have no idea who you are. At pow wow, I asked around to see if you were made a shaman over our reserve and our people. I had people laugh in my face...............(click link above this quote box read in full)


Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Defend the Sacred on December 03, 2010, 08:40:19 pm
I can't remember who said this, but... If the Earth has "chakras" and "acupuncture points", who says she wants humans digging up her crystals and rearranging them? 

The crystal fad has led to clearcutting and blasting in the rainforests of Brazil. Beautiful, natural crystal caves have been destroyed so newagers can have their bling. By promoting the purchase and "planting" of these large crystals, Keisha Crowther is responsible for promoting devastation of the rainforest and the violation and destruction of sacred sites.

Sitting in a condo in Europe and praying can not, and will not, make up for that selfish, capitalist, consumerist destruction.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Spandex~Atom on December 03, 2010, 09:01:38 pm
What we know to be true is that the ICA (run by Adam Yellowbird - member of the Continental Council of Indigenous Elders and Spiritual Guides of the Americas) is involved in what is called by some 'Sacred travel'. And as people pay to go to Kiesha's talks etc, her business is along the same line as her teachers, the latter 'Elders'.

Here's an article on it:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sacred_travel

Sacred travel, or metaphysical tourism, spiritualized travel, is a growing niche of the travel market. It attracts New Age believers and involves tours and travel to "spiritual hotspots" on the Earth......................These travelers see the journey as more than just tourism and take the trips in order to heal themselves and the world.................

For a real Indiginous Native American life enhancing spiritual journey, I have a suggestion: g Instead of paying to be told stuff you can look up online, go buy a really good quality wood burning stove and take it to one of the reservations where people are trying to keep warm this winter on meager resources.

-Spandex

Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Defend the Sacred on December 03, 2010, 09:16:05 pm
You could take that plane fare and send it to the propane company. It's hard to find enough wood to heat with, so more people use propane.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Spandex~Atom on December 03, 2010, 10:10:46 pm
Good idea.

If people want to live in the heart, just do something practical to help someone else.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Peasant on December 03, 2010, 10:48:16 pm
Good idea.

If people want to live in the heart, just do something practical to help someone else.


Exactly... and we will not become more of a spiritual and balanced person if we try to discard our negativity. Positive thinking should come naturally, we shouldn't try to force it. When i was into Tribe of Many Colors stuff, i tried to forget my problems and the things i had to cope with, and i tried to convince myself that those were very important lessons for my spiritual growth which i should feel good about... and it was not healthy for me. Whenever something happened that i didn't feel good about, someone acting unfriendly for example, i would try to detach myself from my negative feelings, but once i got home i couldn't stop myself from brainstorming about it, and eventually becoming really angry about those small things. If you feel angry or sad about something or someone, say it. Let them know it when these feelings arise... because fellow human beings are really what's most important to us, and no book, video, website or galactic sacred vibration can help you more than to simply talk with each other.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Anonymous 2012 on December 03, 2010, 11:23:21 pm

She says that NASA has sent out a message about the coding of our DNA, the structure of Mother Earth and our bodies - and NASA received a message back with the DNA of the starpeople and the structure of their planet. (Which is...where....??)

This is from youtube http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GTsU8bjrgcw

...snip...
At 4:13 she says Nasa says this year we sent out an encoded message to space with DNA picture, etc. This message was [actually] designed by Carl Sagan and sent from the Arecibo radio telescope on 16 November 1974. The Chilbolton 'Arecibo message' Formation of 2001 is the supposed response. These things happened in 1974 and 2001. If she is not intentionally making up a story then she is not careful with her facts. ? Caution advised.
...snip...

Additionally, the Chilbolton site (a meterological research telescope in the UK - http://www.chilbolton.rl.ac.uk/ )  is nowhere near Arecibo which is in Puerto Rico.  LG is definitely NOT careful when she tries to use facts.  But hey, it's all the same schpeel right?
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: critter - a white non-ndn person on December 03, 2010, 11:42:58 pm
Ugh. There is way too much B.S. to wade through.

It is sad to me, that small bits of truth and helpful thoughts are turned into such crazyness.

We all know it's not a "bad" thing to open your heart and help others. But to take such a thing,
and turn it into .. THIS.. is to me, like blasphemy.  And that goes for ALL the things people like
her are doing. Taking out of context a good idea, a good thought of a good way to make a good
difference in this world.. and turning it into some strange whacked out nonsense that only puts
people's money in the sellers pocket, along with their mind.

I'm just so sick of it. Sick.


Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Saga on December 04, 2010, 09:01:37 am
Agree with Critter...

Also, in my own experience I can say that these things can make people turn against all the good things because of these people who twist things into BS and make people to just wrap in themselves totally. I know that I have to struggle right now to get my head back in the surface and do what I KNOW is good thing to do instead of just telling the whole world to go f* itself... Good thing is that I had pretty big part of my spirituality sorted out before I hit this, so it is easier to get back to what I already know to be healthier for me and work on the problem spots from there, like the healthy positivity. But for a while it really ruined everything for me.

And about ignoring the negative completely... what will you really learn then anyway? It means ignoring the constructive critic, the uncomfortable feeling some people/places might make you feel that could be taken as a warning sign, the uncomfortable feeling that people who are deep in grief make you feel, when instead of helping them, you just detach from the situation and go away, the uncomfortable feeling inside when something is really wrong and you should see what it is instead of thinking only good thoughts... Self love is important thing, but it does not come from pretending that everything is ok and from pretending that you love the world, if you are judging yourself and everyone around you who doesn't think like your guru tells you... it is actually lots easier to "not to judge" and "love unconditionally" when you have your own boundaries straight. So lots of things are going wrong in basic "good" message too, if taking it word to word...

Calling the "outsiders" dark ones and non-awekened and "lower" and what ever and saying that their part is to die, because they don't have high enough energy to cope with it (=they don't follow the "teachings" word to word), is not too compassioned thing to do in my point of view either, and it sure isn't "being love". :) We are humans too and we have been hurt as well and maybe we act from "ego" or right/wrong reasons (which ever direction you are looking at it), but I think there weren't supposed to be any judging others in Kiesha's philosophy, so where's our right for compassion? :)

(Another thing, judging is completely different from constructive critic that might help someone grow. If I tell someone I don't like how he/she is acting, that doesn't mean that I judge him/her as a bad person in core.)
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Freija on December 04, 2010, 10:36:06 am
I agree with the previous posters about ignoring the negativity.

For many years I ran a charity foundation to help poor Native children and elders and while doing so I got in contact with many New Age people being fascinated by Native Americans. But trying to get them involved in the supportwork used to be very tough, often impossible. Many of them did not want to know about the bad things, did not want to hear about reality. When discussing ways to raise money during our meetings, they would rather "send good energies" for a while and then be done with it.

The consequences of shutting out the "negative" news are that you will most likely avoid helping people in need. The focus is on your own inner harmony. It shouldn´t get unbalanced by even thinking of the harsh reality, it is better to hide in your own cocoon.

And it makes me wonder how many of Kiesha´s followers do hand-on work to support and help the people they prey on?
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Saga on December 04, 2010, 10:50:12 am
@Freija

You are right with most of them wanting to go the easy way and sit at home sending good energies. :) Which made the "being the love" so convenient... Even when I was very much part of the whole thing, I tried to promote some action for nature and people, other than just thinking good thoughts and smiling sweetly. Altho I wanted to detach myself from the real world too, but I know that it is not the right way to go, actions speak way louder than words, or in this case, thoughts. Of course praying for good is a good thing, but should be balanced with action and actually help those in need too. And it often does mean some pain for sensitive people to watch the "negative" and sadness (I should know, I tend to pick up the feelings from others), but it really helps when you know that you are doing something about it and the inner balance is still there to draw from even if there sometimes are those bit more painful moments.

Living only half way makes people hollow and not really that compassionate. Ofc then there is nothing wrong with the OWN world, since you close your eyes from everything outside your own little circles.

I know that some of the people who listen her do really support some good causes in real life too. But those are mostly the kind who doesn't follow her teachings word to word, but filter them and use only the "good parts" and balance them with some healthy action too...
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Spandex~Atom on December 05, 2010, 12:24:40 am
2010 with Shaman, Kiesha Crowther 5/10
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P_3rCfWTiO8&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P_3rCfWTiO8&feature=related)


"...There are many more things that are going to happen in year 2010...

...All of the secrets will be exposed...

...Government cover-ups will be exposed...

...Knowledge of ufo's and higher intelligence, will be exposed...

...Healing possibilities are gonna skyrocket!...

...Psychic phenomena will be proven as a fact and accepted by science worldwide...

...Filthy waters will be cleaned...

...Child labor willl be completely exposed, and destroyed..."


(http://i1115.photobucket.com/albums/k558/SpandexAtom/26dayspng.png)




Important, please read:

Official Statement from Salish Elders Regarding Kiesha Crowther
(click on link above this quote box to read in full)   

I'm sorry Kiesha. I grew up on the Flathead reserve. All of my family are scattered every where there. I have them from Arlee all the way to Polson, going east to west, and no one knows of you. I have spoken with tribal elders who have no idea who you are. At pow wow, I asked around to see if you were made a shaman over our reserve and our people. I had people laugh in my face...............(click link above this quote box read in full)


Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: debbieredbear on December 05, 2010, 01:01:38 am
My prediction: When the year ends, she will say it was because of all the negative people and also that her followers weren't loving enough. Gotta be someone's fault.  ;)
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Defend the Sacred on December 05, 2010, 04:21:11 am
Yup. She'll tell all the suffering people they just didn't pray hard enough.

Then she'll blame us.

 :D
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Freija on December 05, 2010, 09:22:23 am
Funny Spandex  ;D

I am most of all looking forward to child labor being completely destroyed before the 31st.
Better stock up on the champagne for the New Year celebration.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Spandex~Atom on December 05, 2010, 01:32:58 pm
Healing Path Expo:
"Approximately two hundred years ago, North American Indigenous tribes prophesized a fair-haired girl would become a great Wisdom Keeper/Teacher in our time. That time has arrived according to the Sioux-Salish elders recognizing their predicted Wisdom Keeper as the little fair-haired child Kiesha Crowther........"
http://healingpathexpo.com/speakers.htm

Which prophecy is this?
Is there such a prophecy?
Where is the proof that such a prophecy isn't just conveniently made up?

The burden of providing proof lies with the claimant. Anyone can make stuff up and say it's true, but how can this be proven in a way that is satisfactory to genuine Indiginous Native American tribal elders?
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Ingeborg on December 05, 2010, 02:42:14 pm
Which prophecy is this?
Is there such a prophecy?
Where is the proof that such a prophecy isn't just conveniently made up?

The proof that this prophecy was indeed conveniently made up is already given in the phrases you quote, @Spandex:
Quote
the Sioux-Salish elders

There is NO nation called 'Sioux-Salish'.

A person who claims to belong to an ndn nation will rather not use the term 'Sioux' but the correct Lakota, Dakota or Nakoda, depending on which nation they belong to.

So if Crowther was ndn in the very first place, she would know who her ancestors are and what the correct terms for the ethnic groups are - and which nations exist and which don't. Which means that there is no way, absolutely no effin way to prove her BS "in a way that is satisfactory to genuine indiginous Native American tribal elders". Crowther is only able to deceive a US/European audience who know Jack Sh*t about ndns, like e.g. there is no 'Sioux-Salish' nation, and therefore no 'Sioux-Salish' elders. The rest of us is laughing so hard at Crowther's BS we're in danger of embarassing ourselves.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Spandex~Atom on December 05, 2010, 03:06:58 pm

LOL ::)

What I'm wondering is, apart from her abysmal terminology, is there any  prophecy at all (recognised by North American Indigenous tribes) that talks about "a fair-haired girl would become a great Wisdom Keeper/Teacher in our time"?



 
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Peasant on December 05, 2010, 04:46:43 pm

LOL ::)

What I'm wondering is, apart from her abysmal terminology, is there any  prophecy at all (recognised by North American Indigenous tribes) that talks about "a fair-haired girl would become a great Wisdom Keeper/Teacher in our time"?


I'm thinking it may have to do something with this:

There is yet again something else i want to post here ;D. I'm in contact with some other people who used to be active on the tribe site and i heard a very interesting theory.

In this 'Response to misinformation on the web', the anonymous writer (perhaps Betsey Lewis?) talks about how their group thinks Kiesha Crowther is the incarnation of something very important. Also, i've heard this story some time before about how she would be the fair-haired child from some alleged prophecy. A friend of mine suggested the possibility that they might actually be talking about "White Buffalo Calf Woman". I do know that the site admin Veetkam has recently put a video about White Buffalo Calf Woman, on the Tribe of Many Colors Facebook page (which only has 6 select videos), and also on his own Facebook page for his own 'Crystal Sun' spiritual therapy thingy (which has a lot of different videos). Perhaps he hears more about what goes on behind the scenes, so there may be a connection.

I must clearly state that i have never heard Crowther or anyone else involved with her, talk about this or read anything about it, so don't bother to search for it in her previous messages, videos, websites or whatever. If it turns out that they believe this, they are apparently not that foolish. But it may be possible that this is what they're aiming for, as it does seem to fit this whole construct that they've created around her. Crowther does seem to talk about albino animals quite often, how they are special and sacred, have such a super high "vibration" (Argh! I've become allergic to that word). She's talked about albino buffalo's, whales and some others if i remember correctly... and from what i know, the legend of White Buffalo Calf Woman is associated with... white buffalo's  ::) then again, Crowther's speeches and messages are a mishmash of a whole lot of things derived from other sources so don't take my word for it.

Anyway, this is the same video as the one Veetkam uploaded on Facebook.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZJrpZi33gnI

Edit: There's another video someone has once posted on the Tribe forums, about the Lakota, White Buffalo Calf Woman and 2012. Yes, an interesting combination. :'(
I haven't watched it, i don't think this kind of stuff is healthy for me right now, but here it is: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VfOa-QyDLMQ
While i believe this was posted by just a regular forum member, it does show (from my point of view) that there is a subliminal tendency towards this stuff in Crowther's messages.

Again, i could be completely wrong on this, it's just a theory. I'm gonna leave this to people who know more about Lakota spirituality. For those of you who will keep an eye on Crowther and her activities; please, also keep an eye out for any talk about this. I've got the feeling that this might cause a lot of uproar if this is what they truly believe.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Anonymous 2012 on December 05, 2010, 05:40:43 pm
Can someone give me insight on this?

It's pretty easy for people who know Native ways to reach a conclusion that LG is not quite authentic to the point of being categorized as plastic, wannabe 'shaman', etc.   Her claims of Salish-Lakota background, being authorized by 'Continental Council', the prophecy about the 'fair-haired girl', claiming she knows all these native elders, living in the woods for two years with animals bringing her food, the story of the owl dying in her arms with it's claw in her heart that she always wears (Lakota will not go near owl medicine), being made this spokesperson after a single four day fast (paleeze), are far enough outside of the ordinary and of the Native ways that they cannot be accepted as truth without some proof from her and witnesses.  

What I really don't get is how so many people react when you try to bring up pointed concerns about LG with them on the Internet.  

Common responses you can get include:

- Her history does not matter, that's just her story
- You must not be acting from your heart if you question her
- You need to use the eyes of love

If you question what LG is doing you get these responses and it's mind-boggling to me.  Are people really that desperate for words of comfort regardless of whether they are true?  Are people really that gullible to accept anything that someone who claims to be a kind of messiah will say?  When you accept 'spiritual' messages are you supposed to check you discernment at the door?  

Really, what most of these folks who follow LG do not understand is that it is not my pleasure to bring up that LG seems to not be authentic.   I would much rather she had not made any of these claims or used medicine shields in her talks, nor buckskin during ceremony, or used tee-pees, and let her have her busine$$ and her followers, and let things play out as they would.  

Any input is greatly appreciated.  I cannot fathom that creator would want us to only follow our hearts and not use all of our faculties including our minds.  Mind and heart need each other to live in balance.  We need our entire being to be integrated.  And we need to look inside ourselves and to creator for guidance, not to follow someone who sounds nice and makes us feel good.

As a two-legged who sees that parts of LG's message are not quite right my challenge is to respond to the imbalance but to do so in Love.  Love does not mean you can BS me.  It means I Love you but that if you are not being your own authentic being of love and truth that I would say something to you as brother or sister rather then let you hurt yourself or others.  As LG is a human being, with my concerns I also wish her blessings of right mind, sincerity of heart, and sound health and happiness.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: critter - a white non-ndn person on December 05, 2010, 06:56:04 pm
Can someone give me insight on this?

 Are people really that desperate for words of comfort regardless of whether they are true?  Are people really that gullible to accept anything that someone who claims to be a kind of messiah will say?  When you accept 'spiritual' messages are you supposed to check you discernment at the door?  

As LG is a human being, with my concerns I also wish her blessings of right mind, sincerity of heart, and sound health and happiness.


Unfortunately, yes. People are that needy to reach for anything that makes them feel wanted, loved, and special.
To me, there is a huge hole in the people of this world. And many will ignore their mind in order to feel the least
bit loved. It is very sad that love is so scarce in their respective worlds that the only place they feel they can find
it is in the words of charlatans. The whole picture of this, of people clamoring to the con, is completely reflective,
in my view, of the total lack of care, support, and love in this world. Very sad, but true. They have to make it up
to keep it going. Many frauds don't even know they are frauds because by now, it is generational. One generation
of people taking courses at some shaman on-line school and believing it all true. It is a deepening mess and I hope
it is coming to a head with the 2012 epidemic. Hopefully, as that passes people will begin to question the validity
of ALL this nonsense based on the fact that this event was falsely foretold and sold. But, I am sure many will
cater to the idea that is being sold now.. of there not being enough people intending it, or humankind was simply
not 'ready' and so the 'transcendence' of humanity is postponed. We will see these excuses become more
apparent as the year draws near, and also, after the passing of it.

People need. And if they cannot find what they need in the families and friends around them, then they will
seek it in others.. and unfortunately, this is what the con artist preys upon.

As for wishing people like LG the blessing of a right mind, sincerity of heart and sound health/happiness.. I
too wish that this would occur for the many who seriously are being hood winked. I am not sure if Kiesha is
knowingly, consciously aware that she is lying, or if she suffers some psychosis and actually believes all
this of herself.  If she is suffering a mental illness, unfortunately, I don't see where she will have sound
mind unless she concurs and goes to seek mental health help.

For others, the followers of such people, I too can only hope for some degree of insight to lead them to
critical thinking. Perhaps that is the 'awakening' they need.  

EDIT:  I should have posted this in the ETC section, as it is off the topic in some sense.

Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Anonymous 2012 on December 05, 2010, 10:28:36 pm
FYI - LG on Swedish National Radio - This is a nuance I'm not sure I heard before.  The host kinda guides Kiesha into the topic and Kiesha agrees/implies that Kiesha is a channel for 'Little Grandmother'.   ???

http://sverigesradio.se/sida/artikel.aspx?programid=3925&artikel=4135827&play=2705063&playtype=Ljudklipp

Direct URL to audio on this page:  http://sverigesradio.se/topsy/ljudfil/2705063.m4a

Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Spandex~Atom on December 06, 2010, 01:12:10 am
Unfortunately, it isn't difficult to get people to believe something by implying it. All you have to do is lay the breadcrumbs and leave people to 'put it all together'.
I've been duped by the same methods myself.



We are told Kiesha is from the Lakota, or as she puts it 'Sioux'.

She says that she was told her coming was prophecied hundreds of years ago.

We are asked to believe that she is here to be a spiritual leader, a Shaman* during 'the end times' of this world, and the start of a New World.



We 'know of' the story of White Buffalo Calf Woman coming from the Lakota,

We are told she would return in the generation signified by white Buffalo calfs (some say 'at the end of time').
At least that's how it is understood by many white folk.

White Buffalo Calf Woman is a teacher who comes when the world is in darkness. At least this is how many white folk understand.



Some are going to see these comparisons and 'follow their hearts'. It will lead them to the wrong conclusions.
There are many people who are spiritually inclined and want to do the right thing for our Earth, who feel drawn to the whole rainbow people idea because it signifies a 'coming together' or gathering together of peoples all around the world.  It's a shame that there is fake stuff claiming to be of Native American origin that is being incorporated into this field of consciousness, and that the idea of 'Rainbow Warriors', 'Warriors of the Rainbow', 'Rainbow Family' etc, have dubious origins, as shown in this post:
Philip Deloria in the last chapter of Playing Indian traced the whole Rainbow Warriors claim back to a play written by a Southern Baptist missionary looking to covert NDNs back in the early 60s. It quickly got picked up by hippies, esp the Rainbow Family. Today you often see the quote used for what it was intended for, to bring converts.

The whole rainbow warriors bit get attributed most often to unnamed Hopi or unnamed Cree. Two of the Greenpeace founders claimed to have distant NDN ancestry, and so the quote appealed to them, even naming the Greenpeace ship after it.

As for Chief Seattle, what hasn't been atributed to him? Tons of nonsense sources all over the net and much further back. The Nat'l Archives has this to say.
-----------
http://www.archives.gov/publications/prologue/1985/spring/chief-seattle.html
.... Despite its popularity, this affirmation of Indian eloquence may not be founded in historical reality........................

This is why I'm so concerned:
For generations of westersers who have become disenchanted and opposed to 'the establishment', in which they include 'the church', and are seeking a return to their roots and a more harmonious relationship to Earth, many feel a great attachment to the idea of a rainbow warrior or rainbow family with all it's implied oneness and light and 'peace after the storm' symbology (also reminiscent of the promise that was signified by the rainbow in Genesis). When they hear from friends or on some internet sites that their 'rainbow people' identity was also prophesied by a people who they know are spiritual and care for the Earth, the idea becomes crystallised in their consciousness as 'a truth' that is validated by Indigenous prophecy.
Now comes along the prophesied Shaman of the Tribe of Many Colours, which is just another way of saying Rainbow Warriors really, and they hear all the messages of how the world is being destroyed. She also claims to have backing by the very people who prophecied their role as a group of people here to do some important work to save the planet.
Her following is in the thousands at the least (facebook = 4,981 friends, and she isn't accepting friend requests). A fraction of people watching her videos. Kiesha 2010 = 127,705 views (not taking into account repeat customers) . This is only going to snowball as 2012 approaches.
Kiesha has been set up to be a teacher/leader, and hijack this whole group of people from all countries which is a figure I can't guess at but imagine is more in the millions than tens of thousands.
I just hope they see through the illusions spun by her and her dodgy elders.

IT ISN'T NECESSARY TO SEEK VALIDATION IN DODGY PROPHECIES TO GIVE YOU STRENGTH
IF YOU WANT TO CALL YOURSELF A RAINBOW WARRIOR, FINE, BUT DON'T LINK IT TO NATIVE AMERICAN PROPHECIES!
YOU WILL BE MISLED!

HOW LONG WILL IT TAKE YOU TO BE HAPPY BEING YOURSELF, AND NOT THE 'PROPHESIED COMING!'



Kiesha would probably be talking alot about white animals because of
[edit: the things said by some spiritual leaders about white animals]


Shaman*
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/shaman
World English Dictionary
shaman  (??æm?n) 
— n   
1.  a priest of shamanism 
2.  a medicine man of a similar religion, esp among certain tribes of North American Indians 
[C17: from Russian shaman,  from Tungusian ?saman,  from Pali samana  Buddhist monk, ultimately from Sanskrit ?rama  religious exercise] 
(Dictionary.com needs some education, it seems)

(who put the 'sham' in Shaman?)

[edited to remove a quote that was a newager's inaccurate paraphrasing of another's message. - kpn]
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: critter - a white non-ndn person on December 06, 2010, 02:50:52 am
Rainbows have no substance and only last a few moments.

Is that what people are basing their 'new world' on?
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Defend the Sacred on December 06, 2010, 03:42:27 am
Spandex, I appreciate the information you've compiled, and your sense of humour. But please be careful when posting non-NDNs' misinterpretations or misrepresentations of history, of prophecies, or any of their attempts to paraphrase NDN Elders.

As has been checked by multiple people on the forum, Crowther has no connection to Arvol Lookinghorse. We are pretty certain she has no connection to any Indigenous Elders. I know you didn't imply this, but some of the quotes were unclear.

Crowther's fantasies of White Buffalo Calf Woman are based on misinterpretations, and the gross misunderstandings of an outsider to the L/D/N lifeways.

As for the white animals, I think that's a tangent. I have deleted the newager's paraphrasing of what he thinks Arvol has said about the white animals and the story of White Buffalo Calf Woman, as the newager's words were inaccurate and potentially misleading. Arvol can speak for himself on these issues, and does. He speaks English just fine and does not need interpreters. As it's been asked and answered that he has nothing to do with this fraud, I'd rather leave his name out of this entirely.

ETA: For the record, here is a video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PHqVdZmpRgI&NR=1) of Arvol telling the story of White Buffalo Calf Woman, and discussing the appearance of white animals in recent years. White Buffalo Calf Woman is a black-haired woman, and the prophecy is that she will return as a white buffalo calf.

You may notice that there is no mention of blonde, white women anywhere in the prophecies.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Spandex~Atom on December 06, 2010, 11:33:19 am
Thanks Kathryn for making the correction and putting the topic straight. I hope that anyone reading this will see how much the stories we are told on various new-age sites misrepresent the truth and how easy it is to be misled. On the internet it's a matter of 'chinese whispers', and 'new-age frauds' make alot of use of this, knowing how trusting people who just 'follow their heart' without much critical thought can be.

- Spandex
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Freija on December 06, 2010, 12:07:52 pm
Thank you for that post, Kathryn! Very well said!
And this is nothing against you, Spandex!

I could tell some horror stories about the "The Indians say....."-quotes that I, myself, passed on in books and lectures during my years "in darkness".  :-\  I got out of it, pretty much thanks to NAFPS and by spending time in Native communities. So I KNOW how easy it is to get fooled by all the garbage out there written or interpreted by non-Natives, sticking a "Native label" on everything just to get fame and fortune. I feel really sorry for Native leaders, chiefs, medicinepeople etc that continously see their names connected to lies and fantasies in which they have had no part.

I think it´s important for all of us non-Natives to be extremely careful and go straight to the source. And  when we do, I don´t see why the information should be forwarded. Prophecies and "spiritual advice" belongs to the Nation it was given to, UNLESS you have been asked - for some reason - to make it public.  And even IF that happened you´d have to make sure it is a joint decision among the Elders. (And why would they ask a non-Native to speak on behalf of them??)

So a sudden phonecall telling you to go out and be a "wisdom keeper" is pretty comical....
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Spandex~Atom on December 06, 2010, 02:45:58 pm
No offence taken, now or in the future! I appreciate it when my erroneous thinking is pointed out....I like it, and it will help to de-brief  :o others



Important, please read:

Official Statement from Salish Elders Regarding Kiesha Crowther
(click on link above this quote box to read in full)   

I'm sorry Kiesha. I grew up on the Flathead reserve. All of my family are scattered every where there. I have them from Arlee all the way to Polson, going east to west, and no one knows of you. I have spoken with tribal elders who have no idea who you are. At pow wow, I asked around to see if you were made a shaman over our reserve and our people. I had people laugh in my face...............(click link above this quote box read in full)


Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: earthw7 on December 06, 2010, 02:47:13 pm
Oh this post get more comical each day,
No the Lakota/Dakota have no propecies of a
a fair haired girl, no there is no connect to our
white buffalo propecies.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Spandex~Atom on December 08, 2010, 11:52:00 pm
Maybe they're getting her confused with Cinderella  ???
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Anonymous 2012 on December 09, 2010, 12:08:21 am
More bio and background including ('a white father')  http://www.mysterious-america.net/littleg'motherin.html
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: goozih on December 09, 2010, 09:37:09 am
I wonder if this is a case of early childhood trauma ; the need to be special, delusions ,her stories' lack of coherence . Sad and scary.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: educatedindian on December 09, 2010, 09:59:48 pm
That link has her saying she talks to beings in UFOs, believes in crop circles, and has seen lights from UFOs on a regular basis all her life. She also mentions growing up in a mostly Mormon community. The Mormons have quite a lot of strange roles for NDNs in their prophecies, and an obsession if they somehow can covert many or most NDNs somehow their version of the End Times happens. That, combined with someone whose been seeing visual hallucinations all her life, makes for a convincing explanation in her mind I think.

Some things on that site made me shake my head...

"....this first day of ceremony the heavens truly opened and a these pillars of light I had been seeing for some time began to grow outwardly... until soon they were one large pillar. Many people felt when it happened-- there was a gasp or an intake of breath. There was no denying the presence of the ancestors around us or the massive amount of energy that was flowing from the heavens that day."

That could have come from any TV preacher or other imitator of the story of Moses on Mt Sinai.

And then her ego really gets going. Notice how she claims to direct literally hundreds of Native elders supposedly from all over.

" Most of the men in the circle had no idea what was about to happen and it was probably just as well, since some of them would have probably wanted to exit then and there! I did not envy the men in the circle as I asked them to please stand and join hands. My heart wept for them so deeply as I instructed them on what needed to be done and what was being asked of themÉ to go inward, as deep as they could within themselves and witness all of these atrocities, to witness the grief and pain of the feminine, to feel and release these negative energies, not just in their own lives but for those lives that had come before them throughout history. As I spoke my whole body shuddered as the gut-wrenching sorrow and pain started to build inside of me, as I asked these good-hearted men to do such a hard thing. I must say now that the men in this circle were the strongest and purest hearts I have ever met and I love them deeply. I assured them I did not place any blame on them as individuals and I swore to keep them safe and grounded to Mother Earth and Father Sky the entire time. As I spoke of what needed to happen I had all the woman gather in a larger circle around them "...

The idea that a fairhaired allegedly mixedblood 30 year old woman who'd been raised away from her alleged people all her life would actually command several hundred NDN elders, tell them what needed to be done and they are supposedly lost without her guidance and protection...I don't think I've ever seen or heard of anyone that arrogant, that self deluded, EVER.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Defend the Sacred on December 09, 2010, 11:08:08 pm
... That arrogant, that self-deluded, and that racist.

Would all those white people who follow her buy this crap if she claimed she had called together the Catholic College of Cardinals, told them she was the new Pope, and then instructed them in the new way to lead mass? And that the Cardinals had all done as she asked, gratefully, and exclaimed, "Thank you massa! We don' know nuthin' witout YOU!!!"

Only someone for whom NDNs are romantic fantasies (and ignorant, childlike ones, at that) could believe something so patently racist and offensive.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Spandex~Atom on December 10, 2010, 12:27:16 am
I know what I'm looking foreward to, having had a ****load of encounters myself  :o  :-X ......

2010 with Shaman, Kiesha Crowther 5/10
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P_3rCfWTiO8&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P_3rCfWTiO8&feature=related)

"...There are many more things that are going to happen in year 2010...

...All of the secrets will be exposed...

...Knowledge of ufo's and higher intelligence, will be exposed...


(http://i1115.photobucket.com/albums/k558/SpandexAtom/21days.png)

.....or maybe not  :'(
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Saga on December 10, 2010, 09:11:59 am
Now she is telling the "tribe" to join her in this: http://www.greatmystery.org/

And wear crystals to connect mother eath, which is sooo important.

(And ofc she is moving to a new house, no wonder, should be able to afford it now...)
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Spandex~Atom on December 10, 2010, 11:31:06 am

Now she is branching into the Egyptian Sacred-Tourism business:

".......Egypt is magical and mystical and full of vibration and life. I am so excited to experience this place in the physical after being taught so much about it in the spirit realm. My heart is beating with more fervor and more passion just speaking of this place and recalling all of its gifts and promise… What an opportunity this is for not only me but for all those who will attend. Miracles are waiting to happen-- this is a promise!"
http://www.greatmystery.org/events/egypt0411.html

Q to Kiesha: Is this information you were taught so much about in the spirit realm just for the people who can afford your tour, or are you going to share this wisdom with us all?
(I suppose sharing it now would spoil the surprise for the tourists pilgrims.)

Accompanying Little Grandmother will be the expert guide Mohammed Fayed of Guardian Travel and his team of excellent Egyptologists who have worked for many years with expeditions for the Edgar Cayce Association of Research and Enlightenment...
http://www.greatmystery.org/events/egypt0411faculty.html



This is the sort of thing that should be expected by tourists to Egypt who who fork out thousands for the privilege:

In Egypt, metaphysical tours are a thriving business, bringing in about 5,000 visitors a year, according to Mohammed Fayed, whose company, Guardian Travel, organized Ms. Billger’s tour. The price, usually a few thousand dollars per person, includes the expense of securing private time at the Great Pyramid and the Sphinx — sometimes thousands of dollars a group for an hour. Mr. Fayed’s business grew 45 percent from 2005 to 2006, and he expects another double-digit increase this year.
NO sound was heard in the burial chamber of the Great Pyramid as a tall, slender woman lay down in the pharaoh’s pitted granite sarcophagus, her flowing silver hair spreading beneath her. Her dozen or so companions in the dank room lifted their arms, palms upward, eyes closed in meditation.
As was prescribed in the training of priests in pharaonic Egypt, the woman had said, each member of the group had taken a turn in the sarcophagus; now she, their spiritual leader, occupied the space. Suddenly, her lips quivered, and a guttural moan escaped them, bouncing off the smooth stone walls and ceiling like an angry pinball. She climbed out of the sarcophagus, her face creased with determination, and formed the group into a circle, sitting cross-legged. In a deep voice, she read from the Emerald Tablets of Thoth, which she believes were translated from the ancient tongue of Atlantis......
Ms. Billger had everyone lie down. “When ye have released the self from the body, rise to the outermost bounds of your earth-plane,” she intoned, “and speak ye the word Dor-E-Lil-La.”
“Dor-E-Lil-La,” the bodies replied.
This was not a cult; the participants had met only two days before. They were in Egypt on a package tour......
“Other groups will be in there with bells and candles, jumping up and down like somebody’s going through their bodies,” Wael Khattab, this group’s Egyptian guide, commented as he observed their ritual from close by. “This is actually quite tame.”,,,,,,
In Egypt, metaphysical tours are a thriving business, bringing in about 5,000 visitors a year, according to Mohammed Fayed, whose company, Guardian Travel, organized Ms. Billger’s tour. The price, usually a few thousand dollars per person, includes the expense of securing private time at the Great Pyramid and the Sphinx — sometimes thousands of dollars a group for an hour. Mr. Fayed’s business grew 45 percent from 2005 to 2006, and he expects another double-digit increase this year.......
 Because their beliefs and practices differ so from those of the average tourist, tour organizers are careful to keep the metaphysical tourists, who call themselves “awake,” separate from the regular tourists, whom they refer to as “asleep.” Ms. Billger requires prospective clients to fill out an application in which they agree to support “the group energy for the greatest good of all.”.......
full article (realy worth a read lol) here:
http://travel.nytimes.com/2007/04/29/travel/29spirituality.html?pagewanted=print
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Freija on December 10, 2010, 02:44:36 pm
The idea that a fairhaired allegedly mixedblood 30 year old woman who'd been raised away from her alleged people all her life would actually command several hundred NDN elders, tell them what needed to be done and they are supposedly lost without her guidance and protection...I don't think I've ever seen or heard of anyone that arrogant, that self deluded, EVER.

 :o  Well, many exploiters have passed by during recent years, wrongfully calling themselves sundance-leaders, medicinepeople or chiefs. But I agree, Al, this takes the prize!! This is sick. Totally sick.

NO sound was heard in the burial chamber of the Great Pyramid as a tall, slender woman lay down in the pharaoh’s pitted granite sarcophagus, her flowing silver hair spreading beneath her. Her dozen or so companions in the dank room lifted their arms, palms upward, eyes closed in meditation.

This sends shivers down my spine! I have been to that chamber, alone (the pyramid was sealed off for me thanks to an influential friend) and I have hardly ever been that scared. Couldn´t wait to get out. Anyone being the slightest sensitive would feel the presence of spirits in there.  (Which probably wouldn´t be that obvious when the room is packed with tourists.) And my personal opinion is that those were NOT good spirits.

We have NO idea what kind of ceremonies took place in that pyramid. Kheops was a tyrannical and cruel ruler, the Hitler of ancient Egypt. And people worship his burielchamber??! Lie down in his grave??!

This is the overall problem, as I see it, with New Agers fooling around with spirits and ceremonies not having a clue what they are doing. There is very little respect for the power they are dealing with, no concern about other people and the way they put them in danger. Scary!
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Defend the Sacred on December 10, 2010, 08:40:11 pm
This sends shivers down my spine! I have been to that chamber, alone (the pyramid was sealed off for me thanks to an influential friend) and I have hardly ever been that scared. Couldn´t wait to get out. Anyone being the slightest sensitive would feel the presence of spirits in there.  (Which probably wouldn´t be that obvious when the room is packed with tourists.) And my personal opinion is that those were NOT good spirits.

We have NO idea what kind of ceremonies took place in that pyramid. Kheops was a tyrannical and cruel ruler, the Hitler of ancient Egypt. And people worship his burielchamber??! Lie down in his grave??!

I think these tourists have been seriously pre-conditioned by their group leaders as to what they will experience. I've seen this with a lot of Neopagans and Newagers who believe they are psychic, who think they are sensitive to spirits, but really are not. Most of these people are as sensitive as bricks.  They will walk into the most energetically scummy situations, smiling like bliss-bunnies, totally unaware of what is really there. They usually leave those sites more messed up than when they found them, and leave carrying ugly residues (or sometimes actual spirits) with them. Nasty stuff.

Quote
This is the overall problem, as I see it, with New Agers fooling around with spirits and ceremonies not having a clue what they are doing. There is very little respect for the power they are dealing with, no concern about other people and the way they put them in danger. Scary!

Exactly. They convince themselves they have skills and knowledge they don't have, they have no checks and balances, and it's all pay-to-pray so they don't even have the interdependence and feedback of peers that one has in a traditional community. Any training they've received, if they've received any at all, was usually also pay-to-pray, by similarly deluded people, so they don't have real elders. Most of them, when you mention "Elders" think only of the spirits they think they channel, or objectified POC they met briefly (and maybe got their picture taken with!) at one of those exploitative fake elders gatherings.

And how many of the "spiritual" tourists have even tried to talk to people from the region about what they and their ancestors believed? Or what they believe today? The tourists instead rely on the writings of white English and American occultists, who also "channeled" the information about what ceremonies are to be done there, what the imagined history is, what spirits they think are there and what they will think of outsiders howling in their desecrated tombs.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: critter - a white non-ndn person on December 10, 2010, 11:57:26 pm
This sends shivers down my spine! I have been to that chamber, alone (the pyramid was sealed off for me thanks to an influential friend) and I have hardly ever been that scared. Couldn´t wait to get out. Anyone being the slightest sensitive would feel the presence of spirits in there.  (Which probably wouldn´t be that obvious when the room is packed with tourists.) And my personal opinion is that those were NOT good spirits.

We have NO idea what kind of ceremonies took place in that pyramid. Kheops was a tyrannical and cruel ruler, the Hitler of ancient Egypt. And people worship his burielchamber??! Lie down in his grave??!

I think these tourists have been seriously pre-conditioned by their group leaders as to what they will experience. I've seen this with a lot of Neopagans and Newagers who believe they are psychic, who think they are sensitive to spirits, but really are not. Most of these people are as sensitive as bricks.  They will walk into the most energetically scummy situations, smiling like bliss-bunnies, totally unaware of what is really there. They usually leave those sites more messed up than when they found them, and leave carrying ugly residues (or sometimes actual spirits) with them. Nasty stuff.

Quote
This is the overall problem, as I see it, with New Agers fooling around with spirits and ceremonies not having a clue what they are doing. There is very little respect for the power they are dealing with, no concern about other people and the way they put them in danger. Scary!

Exactly. They convince themselves they have skills and knowledge they don't have, they have no checks and balances, and it's all pay-to-pray so they don't even have the interdependence and feedback of peers that one has in a traditional community. Any training they've received, if they've received any at all, was usually also pay-to-pray, by similarly deluded people, so they don't have real elders. Most of them, when you mention "Elders" think only of the spirits they think they channel, or objectified POC they met briefly (and maybe got their picture taken with!) at one of those exploitative fake elders gatherings.

And how many of the "spiritual" tourists have even tried to talk to people from the region about what they and their ancestors believed? Or what they believe today? The tourists instead rely on the writings of white English and American occultists, who also "channeled" the information about what ceremonies are to be done there, what the imagined history is, what spirits they think are there and what they will think of outsiders howling in their desecrated tombs.

and to think.. all this could be avoided, solved, resolved in one very simple action. Respect.

Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Spandex~Atom on December 11, 2010, 12:38:56 am
I wonder if Kiesha will mention to her group, while in the King's Chamber, that it was used by Aleister Crowley to perform the ritual called Goetia, which involves calling on angels and calling up demons.
I wonder if she will use her alleged powers to try and cleanse the place...
if she is as easily subject to her emotions as she portrays in her videos, it could be an interesting experience if she spends some time there alone, as the Great I AM. I wonder what the spirits there will make of her, lol.... 'Good eats'.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Freija on December 11, 2010, 10:28:41 am
I think these tourists have been seriously pre-conditioned by their group leaders as to what they will experience. I've seen this with a lot of Neopagans and Newagers who believe they are psychic, who think they are sensitive to spirits, but really are not. Most of these people are as sensitive as bricks.   

I guess this is the reason for blindly following the frauds? Although a lot of people do not believe in the presence of spirits, they would still be able to feel the vibes/energies/intuition or hear "the inner voice" and thereby stay clear of destructive situations. The name of the "warning system" varies and it doesn´t really matter what we call it. I believe it is there and that most people - often unconciously -pick up on it. But if you do not have that ability, you wouldn´t be able to pick up on the frustration and sadness of the people you exploit. The risk is that you´ll follow "leaders" like Kiesha, thinking her abilities somehow will rub off on you, especially if you pay for it.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Spandex~Atom on December 11, 2010, 03:00:19 pm
For many, as long as the vibrations of messages resonate within them as light-filled and show a deep connection with our Mother Earth (fluffy-fluff), that's all that matters. They don't see any need for people's identity to be recognized by anyone to be able to carry out the mission of love & light.
They obviously never heard of actors, or considered that they aren't just found in movies, lol.
So they end up following fictions instead of living in the real world.





Important, please read:

Official Statement from Salish Elders Regarding Kiesha Crowther
(click on link above this quote box to read in full)   

I'm sorry Kiesha. I grew up on the Flathead reserve. All of my family are scattered every where there. I have them from Arlee all the way to Polson, going east to west, and no one knows of you. I have spoken with tribal elders who have no idea who you are. At pow wow, I asked around to see if you were made a shaman over our reserve and our people. I had people laugh in my face...............(click link above this quote box read in full)


Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Ashla on December 13, 2010, 09:07:15 am
I went to Kiesha Crowther's website and read her responses to people calling her out on her lies. And so this is the response that I have sent to her through her web site.

I'm sorry Kiesha. I grew up on the Flathead reserve. All of my family are scattered every where there. I have them from Arlee all the way to Polson, going east to west, and no one knows of you. I have spoken with tribal elders who have no idea who you are. At pow wow, I asked around to see if you were made a shaman over our reserve and our people. I had people laugh in my face.

This is something you'll not be able to clear up in a paragraph or two on your web site. The reason I and others have called you out as a fraud, is because you are stealing from sacred teachings and new age-ing it up. You are combining the ancient teachings with teachings about skulls and the I AM consciousness from the St. Germaine teachings which has nothing at all to do with our culture or beliefs. Worst of all, YOU ARE CHARGING people to teach them falsehoods. The ceremonies are not for sale. You are spitting on my people and the memory of my ancestors. Until I take my last breath on mother earth, I'll not stop speaking out against you until you cease from using my culture and making money off of us. You are lying to everyone. That is why you travel into other countries to give teachings. You go to these spiritually starved people who are dying for an indian experience and you are spoon feeding it to them with big doses of new age quackery. You are as dangerous as the man who ran the sweats in Arizona, the ones those people died in who were desperate for vision. There is NO ONE from the Flathead who has stood up to say YES Kiesha Crowther is shaman over us. You need to stop this, because it will catch up to you and you will have to face the elders here. You cannot keep running in other countries telling these lies. If you are being honest, then let us all see pictures of you with the elders who made you a shaman. You are dishonest and everyone sees this. If you were telling the truth you would have provided names, and proof and these people would stand up with you. Remember White Ego woman? Look her up  on youtube. This is what is going to happen to you. Your dynasty of lies and usury will be coming to an end because the people will start showing up at your teachings to tell the truth about you. Remember, OUR CEREMONIES are not for sale.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Ashla on December 13, 2010, 09:11:29 am
Next up, I'll be putting together a youtube about her, and spreading it as far as it will go. I have been very busy with my family recently, and so I will start to work on this and hopefully be done by the new year.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: czech on December 13, 2010, 09:16:19 am
I went to Kiesha Crowther's website and read her responses to people calling her out on her lies. And so this is the response that I have sent to her through her web site.
Thank you, Ashla on behalf of all of us non-natives for saying it loud and clear from your authority. I will now direct people who keep sending me links to Kiesha's videos and who post her talks on Facebook to this response that you wrote.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: czech on December 13, 2010, 09:18:26 am
Next up, I'll be putting together a youtube about her, and spreading it as far as it will go. 
way to go... I will definitely post this video on my FB account and send out to people
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Ashla on December 13, 2010, 09:30:53 am


This White selfrealisation has been going on since the 70' where so called " indians" - they are human beings???  like most people are - all of a sudden were reinvented in the western world.
Everyone coming from a pit in the country, knows everything about racism and how Whiote bourgeous people from the city treat low life farmer children, - you do not have to be indian or black to have experienced that.

I have personally been to 3 Kieshas shows - 2 last summer and 1 here a month ago. They are interesting and by all means a lot of fun - and they are not dangerous and I am not a fool and not a sheep. These comments make me hold my stomach with laugh, when I read them here.





I'm not holding my stomach and laughing. I feel sickened by this woman, because she is going around in her traveling shows, telling people lie after lie. She's defiling something sacred, and twisting it in with new age teachings. If you spent some time talking to ndns, you might understand where we come from and why this bothers us so much. It's hurtful, it's wrong, it's stealing, and so much more. What if I went to Catholic church, stole their ceremony and ritual surrounding the body of Christ, then took it on a road show and made people pay to watch me perform the holy communion? To me, what Kiesha is doing, is equivilant of this. It's sick. There's something wrong with a woman who leaves her two children and husband behind in this world to go out and give these false teachings.

She has not been made a shaman over anyone on the Flathead reserve, and anyone who wants to check into this is free to get the tribal council numbers that I posted and call there and ask. They will tell you they know of no such woman. Her claiming Ninepipes is beyond insanity. I knew she would eventually get to this too. She probably googled "flathead" and other such keywords then came up with it in her searches, sat down and thought ....."Ah yes, that is what I'm going to do, I am going to make myself related to these ancestors, then I will tell everyone".

So you know, I'm not laughing here sir. I am so tired of this, and you are right this has been going on for so long, these appropriations of my people. So you'll have to understand why it's not a joke. We are trying to preserve what we have, our history, our present and our future. I would love to see Kiesha Crowther come to pow wow next year in her regalia and talk to the elders and announce herself as shaman over them. THEN I will be laughing so hard I won't be able to stand up!
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Ashla on December 13, 2010, 09:33:38 am
Next up, I'll be putting together a youtube about her, and spreading it as far as it will go. 
way to go... I will definitely post this video on my FB account and send out to people

Thanks! I appreciate it. It will take me some time to get it all together. Maybe you guys may want to add in or help out. I've been busy with my family, my mom is not so well so I will do this when time permits.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Ashla on December 13, 2010, 09:37:59 am
Kiesha must have been real busy with googling herself a history and came upon this. If someone else has posted this I apologize as I am about to go off to sleep and will catch up reading the rest later. Thanks.

http://www.historicphotoarchive.com/caps2/00181.html
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: czech on December 13, 2010, 09:41:37 am
Maybe you guys may want to add in or help out. 
We could definitely help at least by having it translated into various European languages. I will be happy to do the Czech one.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Freija on December 13, 2010, 09:43:10 am
Next up, I'll be putting together a youtube about her, and spreading it as far as it will go. 
way to go... I will definitely post this video on my FB account and send out to people

Thanks! I appreciate it. It will take me some time to get it all together. Maybe you guys may want to add in or help out. I've been busy with my family, my mom is not so well so I will do this when time permits.

I side with "czech" in this - thank you SO much Ashla and I am deeply sad that your people have been targeted in this awful way! It is happening in my country, Sweden, which makes me even more upset and disappointed.

I will forward your statement to people over here and most definitely post your upcoming video everywhere I can think of. I know good people who will help.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Saga on December 13, 2010, 09:58:32 am
I know couple of places to post the info as well, I am not too popular with my views about Kiesha's "shamanism" anyway, so might as well back my opinion up with some more info. :) 
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Ashla on December 13, 2010, 11:24:52 am


Calling the "outsiders" dark ones and non-awekened and "lower" and what ever and saying that their part is to die, because they don't have high enough energy to cope with it (=they don't follow the "teachings" word to word), is not too compassioned thing to do in my point of view either, and it sure isn't "being love". :) We are humans too and we have been hurt as well and maybe we act from "ego" or right/wrong reasons (which ever direction you are looking at it), but I think there weren't supposed to be any judging others in Kiesha's philosophy, so where's our right for compassion? :)

(Another thing, judging is completely different from constructive critic that might help someone grow. If I tell someone I don't like how he/she is acting, that doesn't mean that I judge him/her as a bad person in core.)

I agree with you in all the posts where you describe this as cult like activity. It's very in line with Jim Jones, Wayne Bent, David Koresh, and any other cult out there now teaching people that anyone on the outside is evil or dark. She's using manipulation and fear to gather people up into her fold. I was about to go to sleep but I couldn't stop reading after noticing some words she said about death. This woman is potentially dangerous. She could easily lead an emotional distraught person to their death. She could teach them something and say it's a sacred message about a "shaman's death" and twist it up to make it look good and sacred, next thing you know we have someone taking their own life. Now I do worry and after all of us here see her words on this.

There was a woman a year ago who was going to die for her leader. Her name in the cult was "Esther" and her leader "Michael aka Wayne Bent". They were in a end of the world type cult where the leader spent years upon years manipulating people into believing their only way to be truly holy was to "translate" into the other world to be with God. That meant, starving yourself to death. This woman went on a mission to starve herself to death. It was horrible. Anyway, I can see Kiesha pulling off something like this if she worked on these people enough.

My anger with Kiesha is not as strong as the worry that I feel for the innocent people involved with her.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Ashla on December 13, 2010, 11:50:25 am


We have NO idea what kind of ceremonies took place in that pyramid. Kheops was a tyrannical and cruel ruler, the Hitler of ancient Egypt. And people worship his burielchamber??! Lie down in his grave??!

This is the overall problem, as I see it, with New Agers fooling around with spirits and ceremonies not having a clue what they are doing. There is very little respect for the power they are dealing with, no concern about other people and the way they put them in danger. Scary!


This how it is when some new agers go to places like Palenque, Chichen Itza, Tikal looking for a vision. They gather up with the crystals and drums, and do their meditation work and put reiki on the pyramids. They believe that these places are holy for them, but what they do not understand is the blood sacrifices and the other spirits that are connected to those places. I have to wonder how do the Mayans feel when tourists converge on their sacred sites peforming different ceremonies there that have nothing at all to do with what they believe or their ancestors?
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Ashla on December 13, 2010, 11:57:16 am
Next up, I'll be putting together a youtube about her, and spreading it as far as it will go. 
way to go... I will definitely post this video on my FB account and send out to people

Thanks! I appreciate it. It will take me some time to get it all together. Maybe you guys may want to add in or help out. I've been busy with my family, my mom is not so well so I will do this when time permits.

I side with "czech" in this - thank you SO much Ashla and I am deeply sad that your people have been targeted in this awful way! It is happening in my country, Sweden, which makes me even more upset and disappointed.

I will forward your statement to people over here and most definitely post your upcoming video everywhere I can think of. I know good people who will help.


Thanks , and thanks Saga, Czech. There's some other folks here who have been doing their homework on her and so maybe they want to be involved somehow too. I'll probably check back in awhile and see what you guys think. If I get a response from Kiesha I'll put it here.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: czech on December 13, 2010, 12:03:45 pm
If I get a response from Kiesha I'll put it here.
Thank you, Ashla, I will be very curious if she does respond, and how!
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Freija on December 13, 2010, 06:30:53 pm
Just found a photo on her FB-site where she is doing a ceremony with the sacred Channupa.
I hadn´t seen that before. I´ve had the honour of meeting many bundlekeepers among the Lakotas and also the Siksikas - but I´ve never met ONE who would pose with the Channupa like that, letting people take photos during a ceremony.
Most traditionalists would find it highly inappropriate, even dangerous.

Again, playing around with these objects as if they were toys makes me feel extremely uneasy. It is not just about exploitation, fraud and racism (as if that wouldn´t be enough!!) it is about SO much more....
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Superdog on December 13, 2010, 07:01:59 pm
Just found a photo on her FB-site where she is doing a ceremony with the sacred Channupa.
I hadn´t seen that before. I´ve had the honour of meeting many bundlekeepers among the Lakotas and also the Siksikas - but I´ve never met ONE who would pose with the Channupa like that, letting people take photos during a ceremony.
Most traditionalists would find it highly inappropriate, even dangerous.

Again, playing around with these objects as if they were toys makes me feel extremely uneasy. It is not just about exploitation, fraud and racism (as if that wouldn´t be enough!!) it is about SO much more....

Your right.  Her photos are some of the biggest evidence of her lack of knowledge and respect.  She is also dressed like a man in several of them.  Not that she noticed or anything..

Superdog
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Peasant on December 13, 2010, 09:29:39 pm
I'm also willing to do translations if you need them, Ashla. Just let me know.



http://www.tribeofmanycolors.net/news-and-urgent-messages/advice-of-crystal-usage-now.html
Quote
Kiehsa - Little Grandmothers  Urgent Advive - to use QUARTS - Crystals  NOW:
Mother Earth is awakening.. much is being done in the coming days.. and we Must unite each other in love and to Gaia Beloved Mother.. this is important dear family and i will write extensively on this very soon.. but please.. gather yourselves a piece of quarts crystal and wear it around your neck.. IT is time to reconnect ourselves to Mother..
A small piece of quarts crystal on a simple leather twine or another natural necklace.. it doesn't have to be big.. it can be small.. place it around your neck.. place them on your children.. on your loved ones.. The energy of Mother is bei...ng reclaimed by the loving human being and her crystals, her heart and her link to our own energy is being renewed... this is more important than i can express here.. but do this my family.. and wear it day and night.. There will be more explained at a later date.. but it is time for us to do this now not later.. gather together yourselves and wear once again the crystals that unite us with the Mother Energy of our planet..
Before you place them around your neck hold the crystal in your hands and pray with all of your heart.. all of your goodness all of your Great I AM to connect us the human race in love to the crystals of Mother Earth and Her love, her intentions and Her conciousness! In love wear a bit of sacred mother around your neck.. so that as the crystals are awoken on planet earth this energy will link to you... and we become united as we once were during the days of Atlantis when Mother Earth and Her children were ONE!

Please spread this info to those you love.. Let every member of the Tribe of Many Colors here my words and connect to one another and Mother with a small peice of quarts...
just also to clarify kiesha just posted this on her page the type of quartz ?

A clear quarts crystal.. just clear quarts... and yes please share this info.. the children of men will once again remember who they are and stand... to defend their mother and themselves threw love... we are the ones we have been waiting for and the time is upon us to unite with Mother Gaia again.. let our hearts beat as one.. Clear quartz is what is needed!!l



I wonder what will happen to the people who don't wear any quartz... Will they die as a result of not being upgraded with the sacred Mother Earth Atlantis Crystal energy?  ::) or won't they go through intergalactic ascension in 2012, and as a result, be of an inferior race, compared to the highly evolved Tribesmen and Tribeswomen?  ??

I haven't looked much but as far as i can tell she is the only person in her... line of work, that's telling her followers to wear crystals. The word CULT seems to be written all over this...
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Freija on December 13, 2010, 10:27:19 pm
I haven't looked much but as far as i can tell she is the only person in her... line of work, that's telling her followers to wear crystals. The word CULT is all over this.

She is VERY good, I must give her that. Like having a manual on how to build a cult. Everyone has the same sign/symbol/secret password etc. to show you "belong". And they have to get them NOW. It´s urgent!! Notice the rush?? Don´t give people time to think or discuss between them. Build up the fear, the fear of missing out, being left behind. This is a test from Kiesha´s side to see how much control she has over her disciples. An order and a pretty harsh one embedded in cottonwool so that people won´t notice.....It MIGHT be the first sign that she feels the pressure of being questioned. She really needs to get her troops together, making sure they stay with her.

Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Defend the Sacred on December 13, 2010, 10:55:42 pm
I went to Kiesha Crowther's website and read her responses to people calling her out on her lies. And so this is the response that I have sent to her through her web site.

I'm sorry Kiesha. I grew up on the Flathead reserve. All of my family are scattered every where there. I have them from Arlee all the way to Polson, going east to west, and no one knows of you. I have spoken with tribal elders who have no idea who you are. At pow wow, I asked around to see if you were made a shaman over our reserve and our people. I had people laugh in my face.

This is something you'll not be able to clear up in a paragraph or two on your web site. The reason I and others have called you out as a fraud, is because you are stealing from sacred teachings and new age-ing it up. You are combining the ancient teachings with teachings about skulls and the I AM consciousness from the St. Germaine teachings which has nothing at all to do with our culture or beliefs. Worst of all, YOU ARE CHARGING people to teach them falsehoods. The ceremonies are not for sale. You are spitting on my people and the memory of my ancestors. Until I take my last breath on mother earth, I'll not stop speaking out against you until you cease from using my culture and making money off of us. You are lying to everyone. That is why you travel into other countries to give teachings. You go to these spiritually starved people who are dying for an indian experience and you are spoon feeding it to them with big doses of new age quackery. You are as dangerous as the man who ran the sweats in Arizona, the ones those people died in who were desperate for vision. There is NO ONE from the Flathead who has stood up to say YES Kiesha Crowther is shaman over us. You need to stop this, because it will catch up to you and you will have to face the elders here. You cannot keep running in other countries telling these lies. If you are being honest, then let us all see pictures of you with the elders who made you a shaman. You are dishonest and everyone sees this. If you were telling the truth you would have provided names, and proof and these people would stand up with you. Remember White Ego woman? Look her up  on youtube. This is what is going to happen to you. Your dynasty of lies and usury will be coming to an end because the people will start showing up at your teachings to tell the truth about you. Remember, OUR CEREMONIES are not for sale.


Thank you, Ashla. Direct testimony from your community (and from the other Nations Crowther falsely claims connections to) is one of our most important ways of counteracting the lies of Crowther and similar frauds.

Yesterday I spent some time looking around the forums where her supporters post. It was very disorienting. I don't understand how they can be so gullible, so clueless, so dismissive of reality. Well, I've spent time thinking about their psychology, so I guess I sort of understand it, but I find it sad and hard to accept.

What Crowther's supporters don't seem to understand is that NDN Country is a tiny place. It's not six degrees of separation, it's more like two. Anyone can find almost anyone with one or two phone calls.

And yes, just like the grannies and grandpas of Europeans, "Native American Elders" have phones.

I realize the European newagers don't know this, but they need to understand: to our NDN members (and even to those of us who are non-NDN but have friends and family in NDN country) "Native American Elders" who live among their people, speak their languages, and know the ancient ceremonies are not some mysterious, mythical creatures. We're not talking about UFO's, Bigfoot and Unicorns;  we're talking about our friends and families. "The Native American Elders" are not mythical, hidden, secret beings: they are the brothers, sisters, cousins, aunts, uncles, grannies and grandpas of people we hang out with every day. The friends and families of the Elders are not just giving their personal, isolated opinions; we know who they are and they are accountable to their Elders for their words. Though many people choose to post here anonymously, we do know who most of our members are.

I wish the people on those forums would put down the Lynn Andrews and Castaneda books and realize that you can't fool NDNs who are part of their communities and cultures. The Elders Crowther and her ilk try to exploit are living human beings who a number of our members have on speed dial.

So the only way Crowther can get away with this is if the non-NDNs are so racist and selfish as to ignore what Indigenous people are saying.

Next up, I'll be putting together a youtube about her, and spreading it as far as it will go. I have been very busy with my family recently, and so I will start to work on this and hopefully be done by the new year.

I think this is an excellent idea. Go for it! Please keep us informed, and just give a shout if we can help in any way.  :)
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Spandex~Atom on December 14, 2010, 01:21:57 am
Thank you Ashla.
I'm also willing to help if there is something I can do towards making the video and spreading the truth about this.
I have a little graphic-design experience, but not any experience in making videos. If it's something that can be 'photoshopped' I will do my best. I'm open to private messages.




Important, please read:

Official Statement from Salish Elders Regarding Kiesha Crowther
(click on link above this quote box to read in full)   

I'm sorry Kiesha. I grew up on the Flathead reserve. All of my family are scattered every where there. I have them from Arlee all the way to Polson, going east to west, and no one knows of you. I have spoken with tribal elders who have no idea who you are. At pow wow, I asked around to see if you were made a shaman over our reserve and our people. I had people laugh in my face...............(click link above this quote box read in full)


Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Spandex~Atom on December 14, 2010, 02:32:23 am
I'm not against wearing crystals and have been known to carry them myself because I've always loved them since a child, but this is not a good development in the way it has been initiated.

This is more insidious than her members are going to be willing to acknowledge. I would like to ask them some questions:

If you go to a shop selling crystals and ask your 'Great I AM' to guide you to the right crystal for you, and it isn't a clear quartz crystal, would you wear it instead or does Kiesha's URGENT MESSAGE take precedence to your inner knowing? Is your inner knowing telling you to follow Kiesha's inner knowing above your own?

When you wear it does it give you the feeling of being connected to a special group of people? Be honest about this, if you call them family they are special aren't they? What I'm saying is, is this, in your mind a symbol of your bond to each other as a member of The Tribe Of Many Colours.............who's Shaman is Little Grandmother? Isn't it also a symbol of 'belonging' and group identity?

Now be honest with yourself, is there no 'little' connection to this little crystal and 'little grandmother' as your 'authority'? Anyone of you with any sense who is truly listening to their heart knows what I'm talking about here, but if you don't you need to learn about something that can be referred to as 'cording', 'aka threads', etheric threads', strands etc. They create a network or 'web' along which energy runs, and your thoughts are very important in that respect. So how is your little crystal set up? Who really gave it it's place? Where is the energy going?

Please wake up!

Do you think the Creator needs you to wear a crystal to save the planet?

What if you don't really want to wear a crystal?
Will this in some way mark you as not fulfilling your mission, or make you feel like you don't really 'fit in' ?

Does it give a sense of 'Us' and 'Them' ?

This is cult-like thinking and programming.

(I wonder if Kiesha will be selling clear quartz pendants or crystals which have been specially 'tuned' or 'dedicated' or whatever on a nice chain or 'cord', in the near future, lol)
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: nemesis on December 14, 2010, 09:18:11 am
It is great to have Ashla here to put across the concerns of her people.

Even then I doubt that Crowther's followers will pay too much attention, they seem to be enchanted by a dream from which they do not wish to wake.

I found this recent video on youtube, apologies if it has been posted before, I searched for the link and nothing came up.  It is an interview with Crowther in Slovenia and it was uploaded a week ago.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4MMYq41niQw

The youtube channel has a mix of UFO and aliens videos with biblical prophecies and crowther's videos.



Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Saga on December 14, 2010, 11:49:38 am
Quote
Do you think the Creator needs you to wear a crystal to save the planet?

What if you don't really want to wear a crystal?
Will this in some way mark you as not fulfilling your mission, or make you feel like you don't really 'fit in' ?

Does it give a sense of 'Us' and 'Them' ?

This is cult-like thinking and programming.

I have to say that I almost gave up with wearing my own quartz crystal, lol. :) Anyway, what I want to comment is... If we are supposed to be here to "balance" the earth and heal it, why would anyone suggest everyone to wear crystals to be part of something, huge spike in selling them means lots and lots of destroying the natural crystal formations on earth. :p And, since I happen to believe in some sort of stone/crystal "vibrations", I'd like to comment that the clear quartz, even if it is kind of a multipurpose crystal, is a bit too sharp to some people and makes them feel uncomfortable, I know it from myself when I am not "ready" for it. I tend to sense some sort of earth energies. Natural stones picked up from the ground or shore tend to work for everyone tho, especially the local stones, does good for "inner child" and all too, to look for the right one. :p Also, connecting to earth... Just go outside and touch it, or touch a tree. :p

And yes, there is a scent of group consciousness rising in this. Very much so. And the ego rising too... "I can command huge amounts of people... wohoo, yay me, I am the GREAT I AM." :p And again, the urgent message is in the form that it is very uncomfortable to let it undone, if taking all the teachings word to word.

Think I'll put the link in these forums to my blog too.

(Edit, deleted the egypt "event" link, since it is already discussed on page 15... Advertised a lot in fb and the "tribes" own site, I hear.)
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: educatedindian on December 14, 2010, 01:06:50 pm
Next up, I'll be putting together a youtube about her, and spreading it as far as it will go. I have been very busy with my family recently, and so I will start to work on this and hopefully be done by the new year.

I really want to see this as well Ashla. Have you thought about starting a facebook page or blog about Crowther? It would be a greaty way to spread the word, post messages from elders and other Salish and other NDNs, and all her critics, pointing to every bit of nonsense she's claimed. Having it run by a Salish would be ideal.

Perhaps the best title for such a site would be KieshaCrowtherIsNOTaNativeElder or KieshaCrowtherIsNOTaSalish, or KieshaCrowtherWatch or KieshaCrowtherFraud.

And you already have several people willing to do translations for you so the naive Europeans over there listening to her get the message.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: SAMy on December 15, 2010, 10:24:44 pm
FYI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BpEsnJ39Y9k (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BpEsnJ39Y9k)

SAMy
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Peasant on December 15, 2010, 10:40:38 pm
FYI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BpEsnJ39Y9k (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BpEsnJ39Y9k)

SAMy

OMG i've never laughed so hard about anything related to this stuff. I suppose you made these videos? Good job  ;D
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Defend the Sacred on December 15, 2010, 11:29:22 pm
There are a number of good videos about Crowther on that channel, and some other videos about cultural misappropriation in general. Check it out: http://www.youtube.com/user/ShamansAndMessiahs
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Laurel on December 15, 2010, 11:43:54 pm
Oh, these are good! I subscribed.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Ashla on December 16, 2010, 12:05:05 am
Samy those are great. Those are very good. As I was telling Crescent the other day in PM's, my mom has been very ill and I wanted to do something soon as I can. I appreciate these.

Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: SAMy on December 16, 2010, 03:09:54 am
There are a number of good videos about Crowther on that channel, and some other videos about cultural misappropriation in general. Check it out: http://www.youtube.com/user/ShamansAndMessiahs
If someone is fluent in Swedish and German there is some English text from the LG vids we posted that need a better translation than can be done online.  We can provide English and rough translations of each target language for cleanup.  Just a few paragraphs.  Pls send PM if you can do it.   ;D
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Freija on December 16, 2010, 08:42:36 am
PM coming up, SAMy.
Great videos  :)
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Saga on December 16, 2010, 08:51:41 am
Oh, think I'll put link to that channel in my blog too. :) Videos are actually better than the original ones, lots more to laugh... And you know, nothing raise energy more than laughing. ;p Great job!

And omg, the Heaven's gate cult initiation tape sounds almost just like the most new age stuff going around, including the message of "tribe of many colors". :p
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Ashla on December 16, 2010, 09:05:07 am
I'm up late setting up a Facebook right now. I'll drop the link here when finished. I'd like it if you could all please join and help me with translations. Thank you all.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Ashla on December 16, 2010, 09:56:55 am
Please come and join, and start posting info, video, links to anything that will help spread the information. Please feel free to spread this link to all interested.

Thanks everyone, and Samy thank you for the video.

http://www.facebook.com/pages/Kiesha-Crowther-Plastic-Shaman/181233948569842?v=wall

If link is not working, the community is named "Kiesha Crowther Plastic Shaman"
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Ashla on December 16, 2010, 10:07:26 am
What is wrong with her voice in this video? She sounds very odd here.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c72Pg_RabL8&feature=related

She speaks in a baby voice, and sometimes a southern accent slips in.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Saga on December 16, 2010, 10:09:11 am
Maybe put the NAFPS link to this thread there too. :) I am gathering courage to join with the real name (yep, the unnecessary guilt of "not believing" all of this this world saving thing is still there :p), altho most of the people already have guessed who I am anyway, I think. :p

Maybe she is trying to be cute in the video? Or helpless, so that the garden growing doesn't sound like command... who knows...
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Ashla on December 16, 2010, 10:59:33 am
Thanks Saga. I am not using my name on facebook, as I do not trust the site itself. When I contacted Kiesha through her website, I used my real name and contact info. So she knows who I am and is able to contact me. I have yet to get a response from her. If you are uncomfortable with using your personal facebook to join, you could create a more anonymous one. I know alot of people do not trust the site.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Saga on December 16, 2010, 11:05:46 am
Well, I have my personal profile and I actually have posted lots of things from NAFPS with it already as well as personal opinions and have the links in my blog too, which I write as Saga... Just kind of weird to so clearly stand against something some of my friends believe is a good thing. :) Here it goes tho. :)
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Freija on December 16, 2010, 12:23:46 pm
I have joined - with my real name. But there again, I am already out there with films and books, so I want to be upfront with my feelings. And I have been diced and sliced so many times on Internet, so I just couldn´t care anymore.  I know there are people trusting me (hope it´s not wishful thinking  ;) ) so maybe my name could add some weight in Sweden as I keep getting emails asking me if Kiesha is the real deal or not. I´ll post the Youtube link to our film, too.

I have translated Ashla´s text to Swedish. Let me know who wants it and I´ll send it over.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Saga on December 16, 2010, 12:36:44 pm
If you want Finnish translations, only need to tell me what to translate and I'll try my best. :)
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: SAMy on December 16, 2010, 01:32:20 pm
The German and Swedish translations of one of our videos is underway.  If anyone if fluent in a favorite European language of your choice (you can see from the tribe of many colours ;D site where they are targeting) and you have time to translate a couple of paragraphs from one of the our videos (ShamansAndMessiahs on youtube)  please send us a PM. - SAMy
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: czech on December 16, 2010, 02:00:44 pm
Ashla, thank you, wonderful job with the FB site, I'm sharing the video on my site. I have also contacted SAMy about Czech translations of the videos they make.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Ashla on December 16, 2010, 02:19:25 pm
Thank you all. Looks like the facebook page is off the ground. If anyone is interested in being a co-admins please let me know. There may be times I cannot do much depending on how my mom is doing.

I do have something interesting to share here. As you know I sent Kiesha a message through her site, and have been hoping she'd contact me. Out of curiosity I went by her page again today, and opened up the message form to send her another message asking if she'd reply to my concerns, and this is what I saw this time above the letter form:


*Due to the huge volume of emails Little Grandmother receives daily, she is no longer able to respond to each of your heartfelt messages.  But Little Grandmother thanks all of you from her heart and sends her love.

I suppose this means that she won't be responding at all. This was not above the letter form the other day, but now it is and so I will take this to mean she has no intentions of addressing me. I'll keep checking my email daily to see if she does and will update.

I'll check back later tonight ...... and again, thank you very much. Bless your hearts.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Ashla on December 16, 2010, 02:23:14 pm
Ashla, thank you, wonderful job with the FB site, I'm sharing the video on my site. I have also contacted SAMy about Czech translations of the videos they make.

This is great, thank you. I have received a PM from another who can help with German. Where is your site, Czech?
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: czech on December 16, 2010, 02:26:04 pm

*Due to the huge volume of emails Little Grandmother receives daily, she is no longer able to respond to each of your heartfelt messages. 

This was not above the letter form the other day, but now it is and so I will take this to mean she has no intentions of addressing me.

But she clearly got it that your message was definitely heartfelt  :)

Thank you Ashla and best wishes to you and your mother, may she be well...
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Saga on December 16, 2010, 02:31:35 pm
I've actually written to her too lately, but think she haven't been answering in her mail in ages. :)

Best wishes to your mom and you, Ashla.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Spandex~Atom on December 16, 2010, 04:41:06 pm
Maybe she is afraid of mixing with the "dark side"**, lol.
I'm not expecting her to come and 'comb the snakes from our hair' any time soon, or 'go amongst the sinners' like holy people of the past did.

Anyone who was really a true 'light-worker' wouldn't be afraid of shining the light in a place of darkness, instead of hiding in the shadows of their ivory tower.

**
So people in the forum, how does it feel to be puppets of the "dark side"? I just read from the posts of the followers that we are those. Following the agenda of "dark ones" to most definately break the world in pieces or something...
___________________________________________________________________________________________

Official Statement from Salish Elders Regarding Kiesha Crowther
(click on link above this box)   
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Saga on December 16, 2010, 04:55:08 pm
Think I am bit off the line here, since I still consider myself as a "light worker" of some kind... Guess I am shining like black sun then. :)

Watched the videos from "our" facebook site and posted in my profile too. Seems that she isn't such a big deal in Finland, but we are so stubborn people that we don't really appreciate people telling us what to think. There were links in couple of places, but there were already some doubtful info added and links to here too, so think the finnish translation isn't as much in hurry as my xmas preparations. :)
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: SAMy on December 16, 2010, 05:06:17 pm
I went to Kiesha Crowther's website and read her responses to people calling her out on her lies. And so this is the response that I have sent to her through her web site.

I'm sorry Kiesha. I grew up on the Flathead reserve. All of my family are scattered every where there. I have them from Arlee all the way to Polson, going east to west, and no one knows of you. I have spoken with tribal elders who have no idea who you are. At pow wow, I asked around to see if you were made a shaman over our reserve and our people. I had people laugh in my face.

This is something you'll not be able to clear up in a paragraph or two on your web site. The reason I and others have called you out as a fraud, is because you are stealing from sacred teachings and new age-ing it up. You are combining the ancient teachings with teachings about skulls and the I AM consciousness from the St. Germaine teachings which has nothing at all to do with our culture or beliefs. Worst of all, YOU ARE CHARGING people to teach them falsehoods. The ceremonies are not for sale. You are spitting on my people and the memory of my ancestors. Until I take my last breath on mother earth, I'll not stop speaking out against you until you cease from using my culture and making money off of us. You are lying to everyone. That is why you travel into other countries to give teachings. You go to these spiritually starved people who are dying for an indian experience and you are spoon feeding it to them with big doses of new age quackery. You are as dangerous as the man who ran the sweats in Arizona, the ones those people died in who were desperate for vision. There is NO ONE from the Flathead who has stood up to say YES Kiesha Crowther is shaman over us. You need to stop this, because it will catch up to you and you will have to face the elders here. You cannot keep running in other countries telling these lies. If you are being honest, then let us all see pictures of you with the elders who made you a shaman. You are dishonest and everyone sees this. If you were telling the truth you would have provided names, and proof and these people would stand up with you. Remember White Ego woman? Look her up  on youtube. This is what is going to happen to you. Your dynasty of lies and usury will be coming to an end because the people will start showing up at your teachings to tell the truth about you. Remember, OUR CEREMONIES are not for sale.


If anyone wants to PM us other language translations of this then we can add a language-specific version for the video 'The Ancestors are watching you 'Little Grandmother''.   You may want to give folks a heads up here to indicate you have taken the language then PM translation to us.

The text would be first for title:  The Ancestors are watching you 'Little Grandmother'

Then text on inside video: 'Little Grandmother' The ancestors have been watching...

Then the translation of Ashlas text from her post (as above).   (Just ensure a vertical blank line between each major section or **** or something to help us know when we are in the next section).

SAMy
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Spandex~Atom on December 16, 2010, 05:27:05 pm
Think I am bit off the line here, since I still consider myself as a "light worker" of some kind... Guess I am shining like black sun then. :)

Me too, totally out of line, which isn't to say I don't have a dark side. My dark side is as dark as my light side is light. What I find disturbing about the nuage version of ancient teachings is that they seem to push the 'dark' away. This only makes it stronger and it will eventually seep out of the cracks. You have to acknowledge it, which isn't to say 'follow' it. Following 'masters' with blinkers on is very stupid, but I suppose they think it's all ok if they 'feel' the love.....
What people are often unwilling to accept is that the most monstrous and abominable characters are able to love as well, and some can even 'love' (very convincingly) 'at will' if it suits them, a bit like having ability to switch to a different personality when desired. Alot of 'lightworkers' who are into the 'fluffylove is All' programming don't see people like this coming, whereas someone they might consider relatively unspiritual might see them coming a mile off. It's a peculiar situation, and tyrants love it. It all starts innocently enough....

(lol @ "black sun". I'm surprised Kiesha hasn't hinted that one of her crystals isn't an ancient Sumerian or Egyptian crystal that used to be kept in an 'Ark'.... ::) Then again she hasn't mentioned the 'Rod of Fate' of the ancient Brahmins either, amongst her references to ancient technology.....yet)

_____________________________________________________________________________________



TY Ashla. I've added the following to one of my posts on each page from when I joined the discussion so people can be directed to this fact:

edited addition 16 dec 2010:
Important, please read:
I'm sorry Kiesha. I grew up on the Flathead reserve. All of my family are scattered every where there. I have them from Arlee all the way to Polson, going east to west, and no one knows of you. I have spoken with tribal elders who have no idea who you are. At pow wow, I asked around to see if you were made a shaman over our reserve and our people. I had people laugh in my face...............(click quote link to read in full)



Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Spandex~Atom on December 16, 2010, 06:18:18 pm
What is wrong with her voice in this video? She sounds very odd here.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c72Pg_RabL8&feature=related

She speaks in a baby voice, and sometimes a southern accent slips in.

that's the effect of the nitrogen gas covertly pumped through her microphone, to give her that 'butter wouldn't melt in my mouth' sound so sought after in Disney epic characters like 'Little Mermaid........jk

Yes it's interesting that she can talk in a non-'baby' voice when she wants to........but I bet it wouldn't be so effective in evoking an emotional response from her customers.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Freija on December 16, 2010, 06:31:55 pm
If anyone wants to PM us other language translations of this then we can add a language-specific version for the video 'The Ancestors are watching you 'Little Grandmother''.   You may want to give folks a heads up here to indicate you have taken the language then PM translation to us.

Swedish translation is done. Thanks, SAMy, for all the work!!
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: SAMy on December 16, 2010, 06:42:50 pm
FYI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BpEsnJ39Y9k (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BpEsnJ39Y9k)

SAMy

OMG i've never laughed so hard about anything related to this stuff. I suppose you made these videos? Good job  ;D

As of today SAMy temporarily de-listing that video on youtube.  It's still there and watchable.  But SAMy is feeling that we want to lead off the public message on our channel regarding LG with the other two videos and more translations of them for now.  One person, as an example, who saw the video, took it very badly (could not see the humor or perhaps the truth).  SAMy wants to get people to open their eyes and not shut down to the message.  So that's our 'friends and family' (and visitors/lurkers here) video for now.  SAMy is spinning up more spoofs not quite so to the core as the mashup spoof at that URL.   And at least one of the new vids is planned to have a 'guest'/spoofed appearance of a famous hollywood star.  ;-)

SAMy
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Defend the Sacred on December 16, 2010, 06:45:25 pm
I think the baby voice is because she wants people to see her as innocent, simply "called" to the task of being a cult leader, and that she would never think of deceiving < baby voice > anny-wun < / baby voice >. 

And I think it works on some people - makes them feel protective of her. I mean, note the name she chose for herself: "Little" combined with the preposterous "Grandmother" (yes I know it's possible to have a grandchild by the time you're thirty, but, really.) Those are words that attempt to broadcast, "I'm harmless, I couldn't hurt anyone, I need to be protected." [cue the tears]

Whereas many of the male shameons and cult leaders go for the big, macho, obvious power trip, her schtick is more insidious. I think it's designed to make people underestimate her while she empties their pockets and messes with their heads.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Spandex~Atom on December 16, 2010, 07:07:26 pm
For sure on the appearing harmless aspect. It obviously works on alot of people, and worked on me until I found this forum too.

Hi SAMy, that's cool. I know it's very tempting, and something I also can't resist at times to 'poke fun' as a reaction to how appalled we are with her antics (my nitrogen comment and rainbow arrow countdowns), but it's true that this may alienate others who just aren't in that 'frame of mind' and are also brainwashed to 'change the channel' from any criticism of her at all. It's really difficult not to react by showing how ridiculous and comical it all is.


(http://i1115.photobucket.com/albums/k558/SpandexAtom/falseprophet2.png)


sorry, but I just couldn't resist it, lol.

2010 with Shaman, Kiesha Crowther 5/10
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P_3rCfWTiO8&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P_3rCfWTiO8&feature=related)


"...There are many more things that are going to happen in year 2010...

...All of the secrets will be exposed...

...Government cover-ups will be exposed...

...Knowledge of ufo's and higher intelligence, will be exposed...

...Healing possibilities are gonna skyrocket!...

...Psychic phenomena will be proven as a fact and accepted by science worldwide...

...Filthy waters will be cleaned...

...Child labor willl be completely exposed, and destroyed..."


We have been waiting.....and waiting......... ???
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Defend the Sacred on December 16, 2010, 07:25:38 pm
SAMy, lots of people on Facebook are posting the videos :-)
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Saga on December 16, 2010, 07:30:39 pm
Quote
Me too, totally out of line, which isn't to say I don't have a dark side. My dark side is as dark as my light side is light. What I find disturbing about the nuage version of ancient teachings is that they seem to push the 'dark' away. This only makes it stronger and it will eventually seep out of the cracks. You have to acknowledge it, which isn't to say 'follow' it. Following 'masters' with blinkers on is very stupid, but I suppose they think it's all ok if they 'feel' the love.....

Yes, I agree with this. Also, what you ignore or have obsession to avoid, usually comes haunting at some point or you get so obsessed with it that you start to draw it in. Look at some catholic priests... forbidden to have sex and all over obsessed with it. Or the ego maniac preachers who tell you that you should banish your ego and in the mean time butter their own. :) I also have a dark side, guess the balance comes from accepting it and do your best anyway, even when none is watching in awe. ;)

And I agree with the funny aspect as well, but it wont be at all comical to someone who takes it very seriously really. For me everything is bit comical tho. At least now, again, getting back on track with myself. :)
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Freija on December 16, 2010, 08:50:23 pm

(http://i1115.photobucket.com/albums/k558/SpandexAtom/falseprophet2.png)
[

LOL I love your countdown, Spandex.
Actually, I think it has started....

"All of the secrets will be exposed" - That would be the truth about a certain Little Grandmother.
"Government cover ups will be exposed" - Wikileaks?
"Filthy waters will be cleaned" - this would be our well that we had drilled 6 months ago, the water is finally clearing up!
"Child labor will be destroyed" - and this is my friend´s little son who won´t run errands for me anymore. Damn it!!

See.....?! I am totally stunned. Isn´t this exciting?? :)

Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Spandex~Atom on December 16, 2010, 09:21:19 pm
lol Freija, that's undeniable!

I love the video of the Elders watching. It beggars belief that someone who preaches about the Ancestors obviously doesn't take them seriously and uses them as part of a message that sells seats at nuage talks. Do none of these 'shame-ns' realise that the Ancestors are a power to be reckoned with? Sheesh....





Important, please read:

Official Statement from Salish Elders Regarding Kiesha Crowther
(click on link above this quote box to read in full)  

I'm sorry Kiesha. I grew up on the Flathead reserve. All of my family are scattered every where there. I have them from Arlee all the way to Polson, going east to west, and no one knows of you. I have spoken with tribal elders who have no idea who you are. At pow wow, I asked around to see if you were made a shaman over our reserve and our people. I had people laugh in my face...............(click link above this quote box read in full)


Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: critter - a white non-ndn person on December 16, 2010, 09:21:25 pm
Yeh. Great. Thanks for vids and facebook site. I am on FB with my real name. And have been posting on a KC site.. I see someone else has also and posted vid. This is really good. Loads of people from all over the world are connected to FB. And although I know NAFPS mods are very busy, I still think a FB Nafps site is needed. Not to serve as a forum for research, but to put out the message on those who are without doubt frauds. Just my O. Thanks for all of this !!  :D
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: nemesis on December 16, 2010, 09:28:29 pm
The videos are great! I especially love the "ancestors are watching you" one  8)

For boundary reasons to do with safety I will have to think about what to do about facebook and youtube.

This may necessitate me setting up new facebook and youtube accounts, I can't do it tonight but I should be able to do it very soon.

If there's anything else I can do please let me know :)

Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Smart Mule on December 17, 2010, 12:22:14 am
What is wrong with her voice in this video? She sounds very odd here.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c72Pg_RabL8&feature=related

She speaks in a baby voice, and sometimes a southern accent slips in.
I didn't get baby talk, what I was hearing was a very poor attempt at a rez accent. 
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Smart Mule on December 17, 2010, 12:40:21 am
Okay I am going to be a parade rainer-oner. The videos are excellent, there's only one issue I have. In at least one there is the crying 'indian' from the commercials in the 70s. The guy was Italian. Maybe I am being a stickler and a bit of a jerk, and It is not my intention to hurt anyones feelings. I just think exposing a fraud with the image of a fraud is kind of counter productive.  I am watching on an iPod and had oral surgery yesterday so if the image is not that Italian fake Indian guy I apologize.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Defend the Sacred on December 17, 2010, 01:07:05 am
Google Iron Eyes Cody.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Ashla on December 17, 2010, 02:34:49 am
Thanks everyone, and Spandex~Atom, for the laughs lol


I would like to thank Ingeborg for the german translation which I will post to fb tonight. It's long so I may post this as an image. I do not have time to run a blog separate of the facebook page so anyone feel free to take and use on their sites/blogs. Crescent, thanks to you too.

The community on FB is everyone's community.... if anyone would like to CO admins this page with me, please let me know. I tend to get busy and need all the bases covered. If you see something I don't just post it. Thank you again!
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: SAMy on December 17, 2010, 05:11:22 am
Well dearies, just when we thought we were gonna do only translations for the two videos for awhile we spent this evening mixing up a nice little video just for you (it's unlisted, we can make it public after getting some feedback from you).  You see Momma bear showed up after work and started showin us how to put in all kinds of medicine.  Momma really wanted to play it up so we let her have her way.  You know how momma is when someone starts messing with those cubs and trying to pass themselves of as someone they aint.  

Well, she brought along a dear heyoka friend of hers and he had some medicine too.  The video is their mostly work.  We listened to them and put it together.  We did add that part in the middle from one little grandmother to another. (Let's us know if you think that bit is too much.... I can't really say the heyoka made us do it.  ;-)  The video is fast paced like most media is.  We figure we've got a few minutes for the remedy to work.

Enjoy - All good medicine to you and all the *people*,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I4s-gsd631E

SAMy


P.S. We were up late on this one. We have been working on translations with individual members. These are still a priority but it may take us a couple days to finish what was already sent. If you still want to do one please go ahead and send it.  Maybe you want to post the translations into the site? [moderators speak up?]  Two of the video translations are waiting on members to confirm that the translated video up on youtube [not yet public] are correct.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: oneforall on December 17, 2010, 05:17:23 am
Here is the 'Urgent Message' - "Response to Misinformation" that is on Ms. Crowther's, Tribe of Many Colors web page.

http://www.tribeofmanycolors.net/news-and-urgent-messages/response-to-misinformation-on-the-web.html (http://www.tribeofmanycolors.net/news-and-urgent-messages/response-to-misinformation-on-the-web.html)

Dear Friends of Tribe of Many Colors

"I personally wish to address the issue of what is being written about me on a particular web site (fraud site). I thought at first I would not give an ounce of my energy to such negative and ridiculous claims… But I see now that I need to address such actions because those who read them without knowing the truth of what I or the others being attacked on this site really are about or what it is we are doing in the world will be dreadfully misled.  It is so sad to me that people would spend their time trying to damage the names of those who are working so hard in the world to simply spread the message of love, but I also know as long as there is good and love in the world there will also be negativity, darkness, cynicism... I ask the readers to listen with their own hearts to know what is true for them, as I always have asked, and do not judge without educating yourself on what is really being said and done. The list of outlandish remarks (such as that I wear a microphone in one photo and so must be a fraud!) go on and on… many are too shallow to justify with a response. Others who are also being attacked on this site are some of the most beautiful beings on our planet, such as the 13 Indigenous Grandmothers, the Continental Council of Indigenous Elders, Adam Yellow Bird, Drunvalo Melchizadek, all of whom all spend their lives dedicated to raising consciousness, awareness and love vibration.  For the benefit of those who do not know me, and for those who support me but have been troubled by this sudden cropping up of negativity, please read the message below where we would like to set the record straight on a few matters, so that you do not carry doubt in your hearts and minds!.

With love and so much heart-felt gratitude,
Kiesha (Little Grandmother)

Response to Recent Misinformation on the Web about Little Grandmother
A very negative “forum” on the web has decided to categorize various spiritual teachers, leaders, and figures as “frauds” based on speculation, subjective opinion, and hackneyed misinformation. Recently this web site added Little Grandmother (Kiesha Crowther) to this list; We are extremely disheartened by the blatantly inaccurate and false allegations made by a few individuals in this forum, which have nevertheless been reaching the ears of many. Therefore we want to address some of the core allegations raised. While we know that such negative attacks are bound to arise in relation to becoming well-known on the internet, especially with the sensitive subjects that Kiesha is speaking of—such baseless attacks nevertheless cast a shadow and a doubt in people’s minds, regardless of their truth or validity—This is unfortunate, and one of the down-sides to the internet!

Is Kiesha Really Native American? Is she a Legitimate Shaman?
Kiesha’s maternal side of the family is Sioux and Salish, and comes from the Flathead Reservation in Montana. Even though Kiesha did not grow up among tribal traditions, and had grown up away from the tribe, she was nevertheless made a shaman and recognized as a shaman by the elders of this tribe at age 30 (she had actually been recognized and marked out at age 8 as a future shaman while attending a tribal ceremony.) However, (and this is important), Kiesha was told by these elders that her “tribe” was to be the “Tribe of Many Colors”. The elders were full aware that Kiesha did not know the indigenous ways… She was never intended to lead traditional ceremony in a tribal context, or to present herself as a representative of her particular tribe and its indigenous ways. To this day, she has never presented herself as a representative of her tribe’s traditions. Some people who have linked to her videos on the web or written about her may have incorrectly stated this association or made this assumption—but especially since she has become well-known, Kiesha has tried to never present or describe herself as a Sioux or Salish shaman.  She is a Native American shaman, and this would be technically correct to say since she is part-Native American and was made shaman by her family’s tribe—However, she does not use this language because it implies that she is working within a traditional context. She has been taught to pray and lead ceremony in certain ways, and many of these are in fact traditional ways.  But she does not pretend to know or to follow the traditions to a T. That is not her role and purpose. If it were she would have been summoned to move back to Montana and live among the tribe, serving as shaman there. While tribal members do occasionally seek her out and are referred to her for counsel, blessings, and healings (offered freely of course), her primary responsibility is to be shaman for the Tribe of Many Colors—which includes non-indigenous people of all backgrounds.  Beyond her work as shaman, one of her major roles as wisdom-keeper is to speak and share the “messages” she receives with people all over the planet.

Who Recognizes Her as Shaman?
Not only has Kiesha been recognized by her family’s tribe as a shaman; in addition, she has been recognized as shaman of the “Tribe of Many Colors” by the spiritual elders of many indigenous tribes and peoples including the Cherokee, the Cheyenne, the Hopi, the Inuit, the Aboriginal people, the Waitaha, the Maori, the Maya, the Zulu, as well as the lamas of Nepal and Tibet. Gifts and medicine from these peoples began coming soon after she was initiated as shaman at age 30 and have been coming ever since. These peoples regard her as the incarnation of something very important—which Keisha has never wanted to make public or to give weight to. Frankly, the weight and responsibility of what many of these peoples regard her as is extremely intimidating to her and makes her anxious.
Kiesha’s elders are not from just one tribe—She is being guided by elders who comprise the Continental Council of Indigenous Elders from indigenous peoples all over the planet, as well as receiving direct teaching from spirit guides and indigenous elders past of several different traditions, including the Sioux and Salish. Whether this seems incredible and unbelievable to some, this is the case—If some people think that matters of utmost sacredness should conform to our cultural expectations and prerogatives, that Kiesha should be teaching tribal ways and if she is not then she cannot be a legitimate shaman and wisdom keeper--no one will be able to convince them otherwise. I personally have witnessed Kiesha receive teaching messages in Sioux (which she does not speak) from ancestors past. Why was a young white-looking woman who is not a full-blooded “Indian”  and who grew up away from her ancestral tribe recognized as shaman by the tribal elders? This is a question to ask those who made her as shaman—she did not decide to become a shaman one day but was called to be.

Why do some Native Americans not know of her, and why do some Native Americans question her legitimacy?
Kiesha has received overwhelming support from indigenous people of many many tribes… There will always be individuals, both Native and non-Native, who question, who judge, who think that Kiesha is another white “imposter” appropriating Native American ways for profit. Unfortunately our culture has too much of this, and it can be hard to separate the wheat from the chaff. Some people will be justifiably miffed that such a blond young white woman, not raised on the reservation, would be made shaman… passing over more suitable and appropriate candidates-- this might be the feeling of  some people in her own family’s tribe, especially as many of them do not know her. But Kiesha, while Native American by blood and initiated by her family’s tribe, does not presume or pretend to present traditional Native ways and wisdom to the public. What she is speaking of includes and yet goes beyond indigenous prophecies and wisdom, and she does not teach the spiritual ways and customs of any particular tribe, but the wisdom she is taught by her spirit guides and asked to share, that crosses cultural boundaries.  She is not implying that it is not important to preserve and present indigenous traditions in their fullness and purity, but only that it is not her role to do so, since she is not working in a tribal context but in a multicultural context. With utmost respect for her ancestral traditions, and for indigenous wisdom and ways, she has been taught that the time has come for all people to unite as children of one Mother, and to recognize a common brotherhood within the heart’s wisdom—that is neither indigenous nor non-indigenous, though the indigenous peoples of the earth hold powerful keys in remembering the way.

Who Are This Council, and Do They Really Exist?
Kiesha receives direction and guidance about the crystal ceremonies she needs to conduct on the planet, as well as other spiritual matters, from the Continental Council of Indigenous Elders, and from her own spirit guides. This Council does exist, whether or not they have an organization signified by a web site, nonprofit status, membership roster, charter and mission statement. If you look for them on the web you will find little. These are some of the wisest and most evolved elders from indigenous peoples all over the planet; they do not use the internet; they meet sometimes in the physical and sometimes on the etheric levels; yet they are real people, some of them well-known and powerful spiritual figures in the world. Again, we realize that for a skeptic this will not be sufficient proof and anything less than a membership roster will not convince them that this Council exists, nor that they are doing work of global and cosmic significance, however mysterious it appears. While skepticism can be healthy, and transparency is necessary on the societal  level of religion, culture and politics, there are nonetheless many spiritual and cosmic good works underway by individuals and groups of individuals that cannot be made known to the internet masses—it would thwart what they are trying to do, and the “under the radar” nature of much that is happening and needs to happen on the planet right now. If Kiesha could reveal who is on this Council, (at least those she knows of and has spoken with), she would—but that is not her place to do so. If they decide to make themselves known, they will. Even she does not know all of those who are on this Council, and how exactly they meet, communicate and work. But she is guided by elders on this Council who communicate with her, sometimes through a translator, and also etherically, and she has been told that she is one of 12 “wisdom-keepers” who have been taught similar things by the ancestors and Mother Earth since they were children, and who have a special role to play on the planet at this time. Little Grandmother’s role, as you might imagine, has to do with communication of spiritual information and planetary messages on a large scale. In the end, you must use your heart to decide about the existence, authenticity and legitimacy of this Council of wise beings who are working for the benefit of the planet right now. May your eyes be open, and may you listen for the truth from your deepest hearts."


After reading this I have to conclude that Kiehsa Crowther has been duped and believes in those who have been shown here to be frauds.  Perhaps this will serve as a wake-up call for her.  Just to quote an old Led Zeppelin song  "There's still time to change the road you're on"   :-\
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Defend the Sacred on December 17, 2010, 05:21:09 am
 We did add that part in the middle from one little grandmother to another. (Let's us know if you think that bit is too much....  

I loved that bit :)
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Ashla on December 17, 2010, 06:24:59 am
Yes I read Kiesha's "urgent message" and I see she's trying to back pedal her way out of this by saying she's "Tribe of the many colors", and "not intended to perform traditional ceremonies". What does she think smoking the sacred Chanupa is?
What "shamans" got together and told her to make a "tribe of many colors"?

She's calling herself Sioux and Salish. What band? Does she know? She should, if she has been made "Shaman" over the people.

She says she doesn't use the language, well shouldn't one know the language if they choose to carry a sacred pipe?

She then says this:
Quote
If it were she would have been summoned to move back to Montana and live among the tribe, serving as shaman there. While tribal members do occasionally seek her out and are referred to her for counsel, blessings, and healings (offered freely of course), her primary responsibility is to be shaman for the Tribe of Many Colors—

She's never lived among the people or suffered with them. She's clueless. She's the ultimate wasicu, taking and taking and living with her white privilege. No one has summoned this liar to move to Montana because they don't know her.

There are threads all over the internet of this woman and her teachings about end times. She's telling people that the "high Mayan council" that has not spoken for 500 years, is starting to speak about two days of darkness coming.

In case I forgot to mention, the wall on facebook is open to all to be able to post information and start discussions.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Ashla on December 17, 2010, 06:29:12 am


Enjoy - All good medicine to you and all the *people*,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I4s-gsd631E

SAMy


P.S. We were up late on this one. We have been working on translations with individual members. These are still a priority but it may take us a couple days to finish what was already sent. If you still want to do one please go ahead and send it.  Maybe you want to post the translations into the site? [moderators speak up?]  Two of the video translations are waiting on members to confirm that the translated video up on youtube [not yet public] are correct.


lol oh man this was very good.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Freija on December 17, 2010, 10:06:55 am
  We did add that part in the middle from one little grandmother to another. (Let's us know if you think that bit is too much.... 

I loved that bit :)

So did I!! A REAL grandmother showing the sacred sign.  ;D ;D ;D
The video was great, where do you guys find all that crazy stuff?
Hugs to you and thanks for the laughs.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: czech on December 17, 2010, 10:36:25 am

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I4s-gsd631E

SAMy


Thanks SAMy, this medicine is just TOO FUNNY!

About the answer on her website - this kind of stuff was totally expected:

But she is guided by elders on this Council who communicate with her, sometimes through a translator, and also etherically

There's no arguing that, is there  :-\
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: czech on December 17, 2010, 11:43:09 am
Without trying to have this thread moved to the Comedy Chanel section, watching Kiesha's followers attending one of her "ceremonies" on a photo in one of the videos and the humor in them reminded me of this film classic... of course, psychologically, this guy had the opposite problem than Kiesha...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0uMJYQ9LKGQ&feature=fvst
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Spandex~Atom on December 17, 2010, 12:00:57 pm
THIS is REAL beauty!:
(http://i1115.photobucket.com/albums/k558/SpandexAtom/realgrandmother.jpg)




Important, please read:

Official Statement from Salish Elders Regarding Kiesha Crowther
(click on link above this quote box to read in full)   

I'm sorry Kiesha. I grew up on the Flathead reserve. All of my family are scattered every where there. I have them from Arlee all the way to Polson, going east to west, and no one knows of you. I have spoken with tribal elders who have no idea who you are. At pow wow, I asked around to see if you were made a shaman over our reserve and our people. I had people laugh in my face...............(click link above this quote box read in full)


Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Saga on December 17, 2010, 12:05:41 pm
Quote
Yes I read Kiesha's "urgent message" and I see she's trying to back pedal her way out of this by saying she's "Tribe of the many colors", and "not intended to perform traditional ceremonies".

In addition to using sacred objects and giving the "native feeling" in a way we white people expect to get it, she also feels the desperate need to have all the tribes and elders backing her message up as an ancient teaching, all of it too. I'd take that as trying to be "authentic" as well...
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Ashla on December 17, 2010, 12:19:44 pm
Good morning all.

The facebook account was disabled and the community removed.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v496/TwilightToStarlight/Capture-8.jpg)


I am very disturbed by the fact that Kiesha is allowed to have a photo of herself posted with the sacred Chanupa on her community, yet I'm not allowed to run a community countering that or speaking out against it.

At any rate, this is for you Kiesha, and all of your disgraceful followers, who choose to disrespect the oyate.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v496/TwilightToStarlight/SalishMen.jpg)


I suppose now, I will take another direction in order to counter and voice my concerns about Kiesha's reckless and disrespectful use of my heritage.

Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Spandex~Atom on December 17, 2010, 12:22:45 pm
If it wasn't for her claims to heritage and being the "chosen one" etc, she wouldn't be able to fool people so easily. That's why she has to dress up the way she does and mix in references to the Native American in her workshops and ceremonies. If she just used her imagination and did something that doesn't steal these things from others (they weren't given), she wouldn't have her following or be able to rake in what appears to be five figure sums of money at her workshops.

Seeing pictures of her in the 'early days' of her business venture and ones now, it's obvious to me that her new lifestyle isn't aggreeing with her.  
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Saga on December 17, 2010, 12:27:45 pm
Think the "tribe" of hers has spoken then, they have been around voting pages down, even the LG fan pages, since she doesn't allow "separation" in many pages. :p

Videos are awesome btw. :) I have the links in my blog at least, might have to write something about the business and advertize it a bit more.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Spandex~Atom on December 17, 2010, 12:29:50 pm
Sorry it got removed Ashla, though it's not a big surprise.

We will still get the message through to those who are able to make the first step away from her movement
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Ashla on December 17, 2010, 12:33:37 pm
I'm thinking I'll start working on a website, and will continue spreading the videos and information around. There are alot of message forums out there... and if you google her there are alot of threads where people are already discussing her as a fake.

I wish there was a way to get some people together to go to her "workshop" in Feb. The one she's charging  $195 USD to find out your totem animal and other such nonsense.

Would like to see Kiesha's face when the people start showing up to her gatherings to ask her questions.

Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: czech on December 17, 2010, 12:34:18 pm
The facebook account was disabled and the community removed.

I am very disturbed by the fact that Kiesha is allowed to have a photo of herself posted with the sacred Chanupa on her community, yet I'm not allowed to run a community countering that or speaking out against it.


It's not fair but we can spread the word even without that community...
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Ashla on December 17, 2010, 12:35:49 pm
Thanks Spandex~

Your humor here has been a blessing :)  Thanks for the much needed laugh this morning up there ^ 
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Superdog on December 17, 2010, 12:53:05 pm
Why not dispute the account being closed with facebook.  I'd put up a stink about it and link them to this page.  I read through your suggestion for posters to remain respectful.  Facebook has clearly posted rules and the premise that you set up for your page didn't violate those rules.  They should contact you with the reasons it was shut down and if they don't, contact them and ask for concise reasoning why...which rule did you violate and make your case that you didn't violate it.  You can always open another page as well.

Superdog
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: SAMy on December 17, 2010, 01:17:08 pm
Thanks SAMy, this medicine is just TOO FUNNY!

Ok, this one is now public. 

What folks don't understand is that this is not just about KC/LG.  There is something deeper and mythic going on.  The Earth is expressed through the First Nations communities.  If you say you love the Earth and disrespect the First Nations then you are two-faced and lying.  And what's really funny here is that the name 'Little Grandmother' is such a miss-fit, a ruse.  Kiesha is not an elder by community or by age.  That whole name angle starts a kind of mind-game and a snare. Accept that she is 'little grandmother' and you've just opened up your mind to a whole lotta junk.  Once you believe the name everything else comes with it.  But the medicine here to remedy you includes many things especially storytelling and laughter.  SAMy plans a video to tell that story.  Storyteller is coming back to the land.  Stories, the oral tradition, is the core of wisdom in the world, not books, videos, paying for 'ceremonies', or such.

If KC and her followers, or other interested folk, want to start getting the real teachings then you can go see an elder.  If you can't get to an elder then there is one place you can go to start your detox that SAMy recommends.  The movie Dreamkeeper (2003) http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0309150/ (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0309150/) . 

To the group... Sorry but not surprised to hear about the FB pages.  Would advise either doing more on youtube or own site.  If you want your own site and don't know how to get started PM me.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Smart Mule on December 17, 2010, 02:21:52 pm
Does anyone live within reasonable driving distance of Alamosa, Colorado?  Please pm me if you do or know of somebody that does.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Spandex~Atom on December 17, 2010, 04:19:58 pm
Just one little sentence from her lengthy and obfuscative message:

Response to Misinformation
http://www.tribeofmanycolors.net/news-and-urgent-messages/response-to-misinformation-on-the-web.html

"......I ask the readers to listen with their own hearts to know what is true for them, as I always have asked, and do not judge without educating yourself on what is really being said and done....."

NOT GOOD ENOUGH!!!

We ask the readers to listen to what is in the hearts of the true Native American people, and educate themselves here on what is being said and done by Kiesha Crowther that is despicable to THEM! What is true for THEM!

In 'I AM' terms, your Great I AM is not more important than the Great I AM of the people Kiesha is insulting with her fakery, Wake up! It's time to 'GET IT'!.  The great 'ME' consciousness just doesn't cut it really does it? How about 'WE' ? By following Kiesha you are disrespecting the very people who are holding sacred knowledge you wish to respect. You are a contradiction.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: critter - a white non-ndn person on December 17, 2010, 05:33:16 pm
Just start a new KC page and change the title a bit. I looked I don't see where to contact FB to tell them to put the page back, OR remove ALL of the KC pages..
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: critter - a white non-ndn person on December 17, 2010, 05:39:38 pm
I contacted FB in Suggestions, Pages. I asked why they removed it and why they are not allowing Native Americans to speak out against such a fraud. I asked if they will remove ALL of KC's pages.. and I stated that it might be worth while to look at the law regarding their support of a fraud.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Freija on December 17, 2010, 06:14:15 pm
I SO do not like to be silenced.
This made my vikingblood simmer.....
(Just wait till it boils!)

I am thinking about what to do and I have an idea.

What I would like your help with, those of you who are Natives, would you PLEASE send me a short statement for the web why you would like Kiesha to stop exploiting the cultures and the ceremonies. Please keep it respectful. Explain from the basic level why it is hurtful. If you would like to state what nation you´re from, I´d be grateful.

I can put a website up, but all of you who know me also know that I do not want to speak on behalf of Natives. I´d like to help you get the word out, but I prefer those words being yours. Not mine.

After books, lectures and films I´ve met SO many New Age people and if things go well there is another European tour coming up next fall. I know there is a way to reach these people.  If you would like to help me try, I´d really appreciate it. Just send me a PM.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Cat on December 17, 2010, 09:19:47 pm
If I was you I would definitely restart the page under another name - when we started the page on myspace about Suraj Holzworth, we gave it a completely different name. It was never messed with or taken down by myspace.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Spandex~Atom on December 17, 2010, 09:37:25 pm
Facebook Farcebook seem to have their standards badly skewed. It's ok to have pages like:

Hitler hated juice. Not Jews. Pronounciation causes mass homocides.
Page
13,818 people like this.

but not a page that warns people about a con artist?

Cat, that sounds like a good idea.




Important, please read:

Official Statement from Salish Elders Regarding Kiesha Crowther
(click on link above this quote box to read in full)   

I'm sorry Kiesha. I grew up on the Flathead reserve. All of my family are scattered every where there. I have them from Arlee all the way to Polson, going east to west, and no one knows of you. I have spoken with tribal elders who have no idea who you are. At pow wow, I asked around to see if you were made a shaman over our reserve and our people. I had people laugh in my face...............(click link above this quote box read in full)


Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: nemesis on December 17, 2010, 10:09:24 pm
One possible strategy might be to report Crowther's facebook pages

at the bottom of every page is a report this page option

so go here

http://www.facebook.com/pages/Kiesha-Crowther-Little-Grandmother/166068650098821

scroll down to the bottom

report the page

thank select
targets a race or ethnicity

then send the report

It doesn't solve everything but if we all do it and get our friends to do it maybe facebook will take some notice

Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Feder Talancon on December 17, 2010, 10:12:32 pm
...People that use judgmaental language, that criticize, suffer or complain because of other people's "wrong actions", are obviously expressing unconsciously from an ego driven level... whenever this happens, the responsability of Consciousness driven people is to remain in intense whole Presence, humbly comprehending their painful confusion and responding with Love by recognizing that it's NOT really them expressing, is the collective unconsciousness using them, and hoping that someday they will know the Truth, awaken people also need to avoid reacting egoistically to this motions, by allowing the high vibrational energy of the emerging Consciousness, to transmute that ego driven low vibrational energy into Consciousness, or at least stoppong it from being refueled and growing.

...this can lead us to the conlclusion that when enlightened people express them selves in public, of course they may be furiously attacked or subliminally ridiculized by this ego driven people... maybe that could be what happens when Kiesha Crowther shares the Messages...      I guess.

Be aware!
Keep inquiring!
Stay focused!
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: nemesis on December 17, 2010, 10:17:55 pm
?...People that use judgmaental language, that criticize, suffer or complain because of other people's "wrong actions", are obviously expressing unconsciously from an ego driven level... whenever this happens, the responsability of Consciou ...sness driven people is to remain in intense whole Presence, humbly comprehending their painful confusion and responding with Love by recognizing that it's NOT really them expressing, is the collective unconsciousness using them, and hoping that someday they will know the Truth, awaken people also need to avoid reacting egoistically to this motions, by allowing the high vibrational energy of the emerging Consciousness, to transmute that ego driven low vibrational energy into Consciousness, or at least stoppong it from being refueled and growing.
...this can lead us to the conlclusion that when enlightened people express them selves in public, of course they may be furiously attacked or subliminally ridiculized by this ego driven people... maybe that could be what happens when Kiesha Crowther shares the Messages... I guess.

Be aware!
Keep inquiring!
Stay focused!

The fact that Crowther is stealing from native people and misrepresenting and disrespecting their beliefs and culture seems to have gone entirely over your head.

Let me ask you a question.

If someone broke into your family's home and disrespected them, stole their belongings and then told them that their anger was due to unconscious projections how would you feel about that?

Also, do you actually understand that some things are morally wrong and that it is a good thing to challenge them or do you live your life in some morality free newage utopia?
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Peasant on December 17, 2010, 10:25:46 pm
Hi Feder Talancon,

Do you realize how none of Kiesha's predictions for the year 2010 have turned out to be correct? As you seem to know this 'Consciousness' so well, you must realize that these claims about worldwide tribal recognition and false prophecies are not even remotely in line with this Consciousness, right?

Have you read through all the pages here?
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Smart Mule on December 17, 2010, 10:31:07 pm
?...People that use judgmaental language, that criticize, suffer or complain because of other people's "wrong actions", are obviously expressing unconsciously from an ego driven level...

So does this mean that people are suppose to just sit there and let people lie, misuse and abuse?  How can that possibly be acceptable?

Quote
whenever this happens, the responsability of Consciou ...sness driven people is to remain in intense whole Presence, humbly comprehending their painful confusion and responding with Love by recognizing that it's NOT really them expressing, is the collective unconsciousness using them, and hoping that someday they will know the Truth,

But what if one is trying to defend and protect the Truth?
 
Quote
awaken people also need to avoid reacting egoistically to this motions, by allowing the high vibrational energy of the emerging Consciousness, to transmute that ego driven low vibrational energy into Consciousness, or at least stoppong it from being refueled and growing.

If a person is claiming to be the great I AM, wouldn't you say that they are ego driven?

Quote
...this can lead us to the conlclusion that when enlightened people express them selves in public, of course they may be furiously attacked or subliminally ridiculized by this ego driven people... maybe that could be what happens when Kiesha Crowther shares the Messages... I guess.

Be aware!
Keep inquiring!
Stay focused!

Okay I am completely confused.  Kiesha does not tell the truth.  She outright lies and lies by omission.  But she is enlightened?  Does being a not so accomplished liar and spreading rhetoric that has already been spewed from countless other frauds makes her enlightened?  When I think of an enlightened person I think of people like my elders and people like the dalai lama, people who do not charge for their wisdom and are honest about it.  What about her promoting the wearing of quartz crystals?  Do you realize that ramifications of blast and flume mining?  Do you care about the environmental impact since you obviously do not care about the cultural impact of her conduct?
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: critter - a white non-ndn person on December 17, 2010, 10:41:52 pm
?...People that use judgmaental language, that criticize, suffer or complain because of other people's "wrong actions", are obviously expressing unconsciously from an ego driven level... whenever this happens, the responsability of Consciou ...sness driven people is to remain in intense whole Presence, humbly comprehending their painful confusion and responding with Love by recognizing that it's NOT really them expressing, is the collective unconsciousness using them, and hoping that someday they will know the Truth, awaken people also need to avoid reacting egoistically to this motions, by allowing the high vibrational energy of the emerging Consciousness, to transmute that ego driven low vibrational energy into Consciousness, or at least stoppong it from being refueled and growing.
...this can lead us to the conlclusion that when enlightened people express them selves in public, of course they may be furiously attacked or subliminally ridiculized by this ego driven people... maybe that could be what happens when Kiesha Crowther shares the Messages... I guess.

Be aware!
Keep inquiring!
Stay focused!

ok. i'm not stupid, but i have reread your post 3, 4 times and am still trying to
figure out what that string of words is supposed to mean.

fortunately, you gave a clue in the last part of it. i thought?

but then you finalize by telling us to be aware, keep inquiring, and stay focused. so...  
you are supporting us to remain aware of frauds like KC, to keep asking them questions,
and to stay focused on our aim to expose the likes of these folk?

just not sure if you are saying KC & Co. are the 'ego people' cuz KC took Ashla's page down,
believes she is the creator, lays claim to being the whole world's 'shaman', believes she
knows more about every culture than those who are of that culture, and attacks anyone who
questions her. just to name a few..

but then, if that's the case... then you are saying 'we' are the 'enlightened people'..
and i take offense at that. seriously.

btw, who are you to walk around calling out who is enlightened?
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: SAMy on December 17, 2010, 10:46:14 pm
Good morning all.

The facebook account was disabled and the community removed.

I am very disturbed by the fact that Kiesha is allowed to have a photo of herself posted with the sacred Chanupa on her community, yet I'm not allowed to run a community countering that or speaking out against it.


SAMy says  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ul25uvOyRj0 

( Sorry, had to fix a minor glitch in the original.  Enjoy )


Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Smart Mule on December 17, 2010, 10:52:30 pm
SAMy says  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XaHx-FHIAfg

That was awesome!!!!!
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: critter - a white non-ndn person on December 17, 2010, 10:59:55 pm

SAMy says  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XaHx-FHIAfg


your videos are genius.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: nemesis on December 17, 2010, 11:06:07 pm
another vote for awesomeness here  8)

Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Ashla on December 17, 2010, 11:06:12 pm
I wanted to stop in and thank all of you for your support and messages. My mom is going to be admitted to the hospital this evening. I will be off the internet for a little while. I'll be back to re-group and figure out what I'm going to to next but in the meantime, anyone may feel free to set up a FB page. You are free to use my words here on this forum. Thanks again.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Smart Mule on December 17, 2010, 11:07:08 pm
How many kiesha crowthers can there be from Sanford, Colorado?

Evidently prior to being summoned as the savior of the world she was a humble artist and poet.  On her bio there is no mention of her super powers. http://www.artwanted.com/artist.cfm?ArtID=22948&Tab=Bio (http://www.artwanted.com/artist.cfm?ArtID=22948&Tab=Bio)

DISCLAIMER - there is a phone number included on the above website.  NAFPS in no way condones the posting of or misuse of personal information such as this.  We are merely diseminating previously publically posted information.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Defend the Sacred on December 17, 2010, 11:11:39 pm
SAMy says  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XaHx-FHIAfg

 :D  :D  :D
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Defend the Sacred on December 17, 2010, 11:18:34 pm
How many kiesha crowthers can there be from Sanford, Colorado?

Evidently prior to being summoned as the savior of the world she was a humble artist and poet.  On her bio there is no mention of her super powers. http://www.artwanted.com/artist.cfm?ArtID=22948&Tab=Bio (http://www.artwanted.com/artist.cfm?ArtID=22948&Tab=Bio)

DISCLAIMER - there is a phone number included on the above website.  NAFPS in no way condones the posting of or misuse of personal information such as this.  We are merely diseminating previously publically posted information.

Humble even then. Note the similar tone to the current bios. Though the claims are different, the spin is the same.

ETA: If you click on "Gallery" you'll see the drawings are signed. Should be easy to compare signatures. Though I note the signatures on some of the drawings are different from one another. Some people's signatures change over time. But if it changes back and forth... that can be a sign of something else.

Could this be the owl she says died on her whilst clawing her in the chest?
(http://images.artwanted.com/large/78/22948_452378.jpg)
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Freija on December 17, 2010, 11:20:05 pm
I wanted to stop in and thank all of you for your support and messages. My mom is going to be admitted to the hospital this evening. I will be off the internet for a little while. I'll be back to re-group and figure out what I'm going to to next but in the meantime, anyone may feel free to set up a FB page. You are free to use my words here on this forum. Thanks again.

Ashla, sending you, your mother and the rest of your family my best wishes from across the ocean.
Take care of yourself, come back to us when you´re ready. Hope everything will be fine with your Mum.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: nemesis on December 17, 2010, 11:32:36 pm
nice find sky  8)


Humble even then. Note the similar tone to the current bios. Though the claims are different, the spin is the same.

I was thinking exactly the same thing

The university where Crowther obtained her MA is an online degree mill. Unsurprisingly.

I will be thinking of you and your mum Ashla, I hope everything goes well for you both and send you love from across the pond.

Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Defend the Sacred on December 17, 2010, 11:37:40 pm
Yes, Ashla, prayers and good thoughts for you and your mom. Be well.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Spandex~Atom on December 17, 2010, 11:40:54 pm
Ashla, prayers are going with you and your mother. I don't have any bad feelings about her visit. Try to rest when you can. blessings to you both.  
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Smart Mule on December 17, 2010, 11:41:04 pm
Having obtained Kiesha's maiden name through a public research website I contacted CSKT's enrollment office @ (406) 275-2750.  They have no one, NO ONE enrolled with Kiesha's maiden name.  I did not ask if Kiesha was enrolled, she has stated herself that she was not, but asked if there was any women enrolled with her maiden surname.  None, nada, zil, zip, zero members enrolled with her maiden surname.

Kiesha, if you are reading this I would recommend you read up on just what can happen to you if you violate the civil rights of the CSKT people in accordance with their Tribal Law Codes - http://www.cskt.org/documents/laws-codified.pdf.  Happy reading  ;D

Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: SAMy on December 17, 2010, 11:58:46 pm
Would it be a good idea if someone is somewhat close (distance) to a tribal office (esp I guess Salish and 'Sioux') to ask a spokesperson to speak on video, or on audio, or issue a written statement on LG ?

I'd express mail out a small flip video camera or mp3 recorder to borrow just for that. 
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Spandex~Atom on December 18, 2010, 12:06:39 am
How many kiesha crowthers can there be from Sanford, Colorado?

Evidently prior to being summoned as the savior of the world she was a humble artist and poet.  On her bio there is no mention of her super powers. http://www.artwanted.com/artist.cfm?ArtID=22948&Tab=Bio (http://www.artwanted.com/artist.cfm?ArtID=22948&Tab=Bio)

DISCLAIMER - there is a phone number included on the above website.  NAFPS in no way condones the posting of or misuse of personal information such as this.  We are merely diseminating previously publically posted information.

Humble even then. Note the similar tone to the current bios. Though the claims are different, the spin is the same.

ETA: If you click on "Gallery" you'll see the drawings are signed. Should be easy to compare signatures. Though I note the signatures on some of the drawings are different from one another. Some people's signatures change over time. But if it changes back and forth... that can be a sign of something else.



To me the changing signatures are just the usual attempts of an artist who is looking for an impressive looking signiature to sign their artwork with. Her drawing skill is good and she has talent, but 'international acclaim' is a little misleading I think, as acclaim simply means 'recognition'. It sounds good and, lol. She would be better off not puffing things out so much and letting her art speak for itself, imo.

It's a shame she went from artist to con artist.



Important, please read:

Official Statement from Salish Elders Regarding Kiesha Crowther
(click on link above this quote box to read in full)   

I'm sorry Kiesha. I grew up on the Flathead reserve. All of my family are scattered every where there. I have them from Arlee all the way to Polson, going east to west, and no one knows of you. I have spoken with tribal elders who have no idea who you are. At pow wow, I asked around to see if you were made a shaman over our reserve and our people. I had people laugh in my face...............(click link above this quote box read in full)


Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: critter - a white non-ndn person on December 18, 2010, 12:11:20 am
Ashla, best wishes for you and your family..

SAMy, the recent video.. is it offline for good? or coming back. it says 'removed by owner'..  

EDIT:  NEVER MIND.. i see your post now.. k.  thanks!  :)
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Smart Mule on December 18, 2010, 12:12:28 am
Would it be a good idea if someone is somewhat close (distance) to a tribal office (esp I guess Salish and 'Sioux') to ask a spokesperson to speak on video, or on audio, or issue a written statement on LG ?

I'd express mail out a small flip video camera or mp3 recorder to borrow just for that. 

Kiesha doesnt say which 'sioux' community her mother has ties to so I don't know if that would help.  After talking to people at CSKT I think that if a request were put in writing via snail mail that they would provide a written response.  From personal experience I think having a response on tribal letter head is the best way to go.  
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Defend the Sacred on December 18, 2010, 12:24:34 am
Perhaps those who still speak to Crowther or her handlers can request she tell them which "Sioux" community she thinks her mother had ties to. As Crowther is trying to make a living based on these alleged ties, it seems a simple thing to ask and answer.

If she refuses to say, well, there are a handful of communities but it is a finite and known number. It would take more time to write them all, but it is doable.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: SAMy on December 18, 2010, 12:33:17 am
It's a shame she went from artist to con artist.

SAMy says 'zing'  ;D
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Spandex~Atom on December 18, 2010, 12:51:06 am
How many kiesha crowthers can there be from Sanford, Colorado?

there just seems to be one:
http://www.intelius.com/results.php?ReportType=1&searchform=publicrecords
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Smart Mule on December 18, 2010, 01:01:10 am
How many kiesha crowthers can there be from Sanford, Colorado?

there just seems to be one:
http://www.intelius.com/results.php?ReportType=1&searchform=publicrecords

Intellius doesnt let you post links to specific searched information.  You have to do screen shots.  If you are going to post a screen shot, please be kind and post a disclaimer that it is publically accessable information :)
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Spandex~Atom on December 18, 2010, 01:09:59 am
not anything spectacular really.
I can't afford to pay for other info which is marked as "Report includes when available:", which means it probably isn't anyway.

from here:
http://www.intelius.com/results.php?ReportType=1&searchform=publicrecords

Name
Kiesha Rae Crowther

Age
32

Previous Cities
Sanford, CO
South Fork, CO

Relatives
Wayne N Crowther
Wayne Nelson Crowther
Tammy Sue Crowther
Mandy S Cook
 
DISCLAIMER - this is personal information  included on the above website.  NAFPS in no way condones the posting of or misuse of personal information such as this.  We are merely diseminating previously publically posted information.



Important, please read:

Official Statement from Salish Elders Regarding Kiesha Crowther
(click on link above this quote box to read in full)   

I'm sorry Kiesha. I grew up on the Flathead reserve. All of my family are scattered every where there. I have them from Arlee all the way to Polson, going east to west, and no one knows of you. I have spoken with tribal elders who have no idea who you are. At pow wow, I asked around to see if you were made a shaman over our reserve and our people. I had people laugh in my face...............(click link above this quote box read in full)


Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Smart Mule on December 18, 2010, 01:29:10 am
I'm on the phone with a member of the CSKT Culture and Elders Committee.  The Culture and Elders Committee protect the intangible cultural resources of the tribes including language, songs, stories etc.  The tribal Elder I am speaking with states she nor any other Elder or elder have met with nor do they condone the claims and actions made by Kiesha Crowther.  She is not their 'shaman', she has no right to claim this title and the Elders and elders of CSKT of the Flathead Reservation would like her to cease and desist immediately from making such false claims that erode the traditions that members of the CSKT Culture and Elders Committee are trying to preserve.  


ETA - permission to disseminate the following -

The Culture and Elders Committee of the Confederated Salish and Kootenai Tribes of the Flathead Reservation protect the intangible cultural resources of the tribes including language, songs, stories etc.  No tribal Elders or elders have met with nor do they condone the claims and actions made by Kiesha Crowther.  She is not their 'shaman', she has no right to claim this title and the Elders and elders of CSKT of the Flathead Reservation would like her to cease and desist immediately from making such false claims that erode the traditions that members of the CSKT Culture and Elders Committee are trying to preserve.

Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Spandex~Atom on December 18, 2010, 01:38:48 am
This may or may not be relevant:
An associate/relative?

(http://i1115.photobucket.com/albums/k558/SpandexAtom/kreps2.jpg)
http://www.veromi.com/Dennis-Kreps.aspx

DISCLAIMER - this is personal information  included on the above website.  NAFPS in no way condones the posting of or misuse of personal information such as this.  We are merely diseminating previously publically posted information.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Spandex~Atom on December 18, 2010, 02:00:23 am


If you want to see a prime example of peoples ability to cling like limpets to their ignorance read the posts before and the replies to this post:
http://204.74.214.194/forum1/message1258332/pg3


I am an enrolled member of the Lower Brule Lakota Tribe, South Dakota.
A lot of people do not understand why what Kiesha Crowther is doing, should bother the oyate. As a first nations woman let me try to explain. First off, I have no problems with new age beliefs. I can honor and respect that belief system, but it has no place being mixed in and taught with my red road traditional teachings handed down by my ancestors. We do not subscribe to these teachings of the I AM presence, channeling aliens, digging up and burying crystals, communicating with angels, etc. We also do not sell our ceremonies, or charge for them. It's sacrilege. It's wrong to lay claim to an entire nation, take parts of the ceremony for yourself, combine them into your new age ceremony then sell it to people. It's also wrong to lie about being related to an elder or being made a shaman over an entire nation of people. That is what Kiesha Crowther has done. She has definitely made youtube videos explaining that she was given a phone call from elders who then beckoned her to a secret ceremony where they made her (in her words) a "shaman" over the people.

First off, this never happened. My good friend who grew up on Flathead reserve in Montana, who is Salish, has talked about this with me and told me that no one knows of her up there and that the tribal council is investigating her for fraud. Why are they investigating her? You cannot steal from a nation, steal the ceremony, claim you are a shaman over them, then sell parts of the ceremony.

Kiesha's appropriation of the oyate's traditions needs to stop. Kiesha can go on performing all the new age ceremonies that she pleases. She can continue to talk about all of the new age aspects of what she believes and charge all she pleases for them, that's fine. She is also illegally carrying feathers. She gets away with all of this in other countries, but in this country you must be ndn to carry.

I'm sorry if some here disagree and feel that she can do as she pleases, but that's fine. We'll agree to disagree. She is performing the worst cultural appropriation that I think I have ever seen. I hope that Kiesha will look into her heart and realize that what she is doing is offensive and spiritually wrong.

If you call the tribal office in the Flathead reservation of Montana, you can speak with someone who will tell you that Kiesha is unknown. They would know of her, if she was made "shaman" over the people. Believe me.

Also, we don't call ourselves "shaman". We don't refer to that word or use it.
Our ceremonies and our ways are not for sale. They never have been and they never will be. Thank you




A reply:

Interesting post (the one above this one), but in the videos I have watched she has not claimed to be any of those things.

Most of what I have listened to has to do with earth changes, both what is happening now and what is coming.

GoM Disaster = it is happening now.

Pole shift = many, many have spoke of this, and signs indicate that it is beginning now.

I take all these things with a grain of salt and an open mind ... but she makes some predictions/prophecies that are highly likely -- not only "likely", but we may very well be experiencing the "birth pangs" right now.

No matter what one's religious (or non-religious) persuasion, for anyone who is wondering "What in the world is going on?", these tapes are highly thought-provoking.

imho


This is the sort of brain-dead mentality Kiesha is making alot of mony from, while hurting Indiginous people. It's sick.


It's as if they read, but don't understand a word, or have the memory of a goldfish unless it's something that they find affects them personally.

Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Smart Mule on December 18, 2010, 02:13:39 am
Spandex,

If you post at GLP can you provide links to the sheeple that show where she makes her claims?  Not that it would likely help, they'll just come up with another excuse but it's worth a try.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Spandex~Atom on December 18, 2010, 02:28:01 am
I will see if I have an old account there, but when faced with this sort of attitude, it is probably futile. They will just say stuff like below, or "I Love you". Sort of a 'love grenade'.

This post from the same site, as she posted about this thread:


Janie Jones
User ID: 1102723
 Canada
11/20/2010 1:06 AM


Re: 2012 INFO: Kiesha Crowther "Little Grandmother" speaks on 20†0 11 2012 ** DO NOT Watch ** Quote

I have taken a good look at that website and there is not one shred of evidence or documentation that Keisha is a fraud. It is simply a gossipy discussion board. They simply dismiss her because she looks too white for them and in doing so actually betray their lack of knowledge of modern Salish people.

There are many, many light skinned and fair headed Salish Indians. I grew up with a family of pale redheaded Salish Indians north of Vancouver BC and once when I was further up the coast met an native with long red hair, I asked him if he was white and he said, no that though it was rare, there had always been red-headed and even the occasional blonde born among them and he was happy about it because it was considered to be very high status. I also knew a blonde Haida girl in Toronto. Very tall, gorgeous.

There is also considerable evidence that a tall, fair haired paleocaucasian race inhabited North America before the ancestors of modern North American Indians arrived at the time of the last big shake up.

Europeans arrived on the west coast 300 years and there has also been considerable interbreeding between the races ever since.

It only takes two generations of one white parent for a full blooded Cree to have a blonde grandson. I also know two Salish children who are blonde and green eyed but they are still full status Indians and sadly, like Keisha are growing up with a very chaotic home life.

The idea that Keisha could not be an Indian because she is too white completely violates my personal experience of living with the descendants of indigenous people my whole life.

Modern first nations people also travel for many reasons and often marry out of tribe. Keisha has never hid the fact that her father is white and it is entirely possible that her mother has one Salish and one Sioux/Lakota parent.

The dismissal of Keisha seems entirely based on her physical appearance leading to their conclusion that, "Her claims are simply false." That is fine, they can think what they want but then then embark on an actual program to destroy her. Look at this posting by the administrator of the forum:

educatedindian
Administrator

Offline

Posts: 2864



Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
« Reply #30 on: September 18, 2010, 04:39:03 pm »
Crowther wouldn't have a leg to stand on. I think we should use the same tactics that were done against the fraud Suraj Holzwarth.
[link to www.newagefraud.org]

That includes facebook pages devoted todebunking her and organizing against her that dogged her every step.
[link to www.facebook.com]

And youtube videos spreading the word about her.
[link to www.youtube.com]

All the same can and should be done vs Crowther, IMO.
______________________________

Really, what is it to them?

Another line of attack they are using "because she seems so sincere" is that she is delusional, mentally ill and needs some kind of treatment.

A good tip off that you're seeing the real thing is the PTB try to destroy and discredit them. Look at what was done to Chinese Chi Gong Master Li Hongzhi the developer of the high level meditation system Falun Gong.

The PTB smeared him as a cult leader rather than a scammer as they are doing to Keisha because he taught Falun Gong with the stipulation that no one can ever charge money for teaching it and the does away with all need for membership. He made his living as a grain clerk and then when his books started to sell better, he was able to leave his day job and travel around China giving lectures and answering questions.

I had the honour of seeing at the Kennedy Centre in Washington DC in the late summer of 2001.

http://204.74.214.194/forum1/message1258332/pg2
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: SAMy on December 18, 2010, 02:50:12 am
ETA - permission to disseminate the following -

Here it is.  Looking for feedback on content before making it 'public'

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QpC-9S1Bplk

SAMy
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: goozih on December 18, 2010, 07:55:04 am
Great work ! I think it is having an effect as I just tried to post on one of her you tube videos and I am blocked.eddievibes420's Channel blocked me. Somebody must be getting nervous. :D :D :D :D ;D
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: nemesis on December 18, 2010, 08:21:43 am
ETA - permission to disseminate the following -

Here it is.  Looking for feedback on content before making it 'public'

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QpC-9S1Bplk

SAMy

I think it is the best video so far

short, to the point, extremely clear

It gets my seal of approval, for what it's worth
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Peasant on December 18, 2010, 09:08:07 am
Great work ! I think it is having an effect as I just tried to post on one of her you tube videos and I am blocked.eddievibes420's Channel blocked me. Somebody must be getting nervous. :D :D :D :D ;D

Me too, Eddievibes bans everyone who has different viewpoints. I made a comment saying that John Kimmey, who is speaking in Kiesha Crowther's 'Return of the Ancestors" video, was formally asked by the Hopi nation to quit posing as a keeper of Hopi prophecies and making money off of it, and at first he agreed to do so, then reneged on his promise.

That's why i got banned. I just don't understand how this eddievibes person can be so out of touch with reality. The criticism is real and the videos he's put online are lies, but apparently to him it's the other way around, somehow.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Spandex~Atom on December 18, 2010, 02:18:26 pm
same here with eddievibes. banned from posting

I suppose that Kiesha's message that we are all equal really should be translated as @we are all equal, but some are more equal than others'.

So we have a cult-like group that tells it's followers to 'switch the channel' from any negativity, and the followers who are actively silencing criticism.
That sounds more like a tyrrany than anything else to me.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Smart Mule on December 18, 2010, 02:34:26 pm
Spandex where's that count down banner?
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Twinkie_Slayer on December 18, 2010, 02:56:46 pm


Well, she brought along a dear heyoka friend of hers and he had some medicine too.  The video is their mostly work.  We listened to them and put it together.  We did add that part in the middle from one little grandmother to another. (Let's us know if you think that bit is too much.... I can't really say the heyoka made us do it.  ;-)  The video is fast paced like most media is.  We figure we've got a few minutes for the remedy to work.

Enjoy - All good medicine to you and all the *people*,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I4s-gsd631E

SAMy





 Holy Mackerel this thread has sure taken off. I've been preoccupied with the difficulties of earning a living and haven't looked in here in a couple of months. Keep it up folks, that woman ain't gonna have any place left to hide soon thanks to all of you getting information out.

 SAMy, that video is hysterical. I have to make a note not to be drinking my morning coffee when I watch your videos, LMAO  :D
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: SAMy on December 18, 2010, 03:06:33 pm
SAMy posted the video last night and send youtube emails to most of the hosters of LG videos.  The response from two thus far this morning was nearly cookie cutter.  It goes like this. 

As they are able to tune into the higher light and vibrations of Kieshas messages anything related to the physical does not matter.  Not her story, not whether what she said about her past is 'true', just her message and how it makes them feel in their hearts.

Gotta say, SAMy has been around cults before and it's sounds just like that.  It's don't matter if the house is built on a stack of lies.  But each time that house crumbles.  And all this ain't just about Kiesha.  Like Kiesha said, being a temporary intentional prophet (or a lucky guess), alot of lies and truths are coming out this year.  Pakistan is just involved in unmasking some high-level CIA agent there.  All the masks are coming off.  And Kiesha, the ancestors and the Elders are tugging at yours now.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Spandex~Atom on December 18, 2010, 03:20:54 pm
Ok, just made a response to the erroneous postings on the godlikeproductions site. Here is the response:
http://204.74.214.194/forum1/message1258332/pg4
OrbitalSponge
User ID: 1199188
 United Kingdom
12/18/2010 10:07 AM



[quote:Janie Jones 1102723]
I have taken a good look at that website and there is not one shred of evidence or documentation that Keisha is a fraud. It is simply a gossipy discussion board. They simply dismiss her because she looks too white for them and in doing so actually betray their lack of knowledge of modern Salish people..........
[/quote]


This is patent nonsense.
Anyone wishing to find the proof only has to read the thread to see how ridiculous the above statement is, so I won't repeat the many lacks of her proof, and proof against her authenticity here. I will just ask that people watch this very short video statement by genuine Native Americans in response to her claims. Claims that she HAS made despite the belief by another poster that she has made none.

Tribal Statement on Keisha Crowther aka 'Little Grandmother'
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QpC-9S1Bplk


[quote:Janie Jones 1102723]
Yes they grudgingly admit that Keisha's message is very positive.
[/quote]

Are you blind? It's a serious question. This isn't what is being said and is a wildly filtered version of what is being said, which is quite interesting in itself. A habit of Kiesha's followers is to censor all opposition.
What she actually does, as well as 'being very positive' about certain aspects of her message, is to spread fear about the future. It's the old stick and carrot method.
Again, read the thread.

Other than all that she is what we have been warned to avoid, being a false prophet. Her prophecies about 2010 have NOT come true. Well, we have several days left, but it's a stretch:

2010 with Shaman, Kiesha Crowther 5/10
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P_3rCfWTiO8&feature=related
 "...There are many more things that are going to happen in year 2010...

...All of the secrets will be exposed...

...Government cover-ups will be exposed...

...Knowledge of ufo's and higher intelligence, will be exposed...

...Healing possibilities are gonna skyrocket!...

...Psychic phenomena will be proven as a fact and accepted by science worldwide...

...Filthy waters will be cleaned...

...Child labor willl be completely exposed, and destroyed..."

Those are the facts. Haven't people ever heard of wolves in sheeps clothing?
Her claims of authorisation from the Native American Elders are FAKE. This makes her role no more than an act. There are some very good actors out there. It's time to 'get it'. And if this isn't seen as 'loving' or negativity, than I will ask, would it be loving to tell a child to just be positive and loving when you see them being tricked by some stranger that you know isn't as 'nice' as they appear to be, who is offering them candy? Kiesha offers candy in her own way, which is the 'I AM' teachings, the call to 'ascension' and life in a better world like Heaven on Earth...etc (wether they are true or not is not really the debate).


Please wake up!
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: SAMy on December 18, 2010, 05:24:57 pm
Like SAMy said, Game On  ;D  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XtfqHk_ixNM (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XtfqHk_ixNM)


Regarding the Tribal Statement video posted late last night...  SAMy sees from the youtube stats that this has been viewed 113 times to now since.  It is definitely getting lots of traffic for a new youtube vid (call it mini-viral at this point).   Please encourage your contacts to spread the word about it.  The Ancestors video there is also getting lots of hits (523 since the evening of 13-DEC).

Breakdown of viewing countries for the Tribal Statement video is:

United States - 35.9%
Sweden - 15.4%
New Zealand - 12.8%
Canada - 7.7%
Poland - 7.7%
Netherlands - 5.1%
United Kingdom - 5.1%
Denmark   - 5.1%
Russia - 2.6%
Italy - 2.6%

For those of you who can translate please email to SAMy, in a Word document, translations of the text (see below).  The non-English languages from this list would be the first priorities.  If you don't know SAMy's email address please PM for it. 

The text to translate


Tribal Statement on Keisha Crowther aka 'Little Grandmother'

Official Tribal Statement Regarding Kiesha Crowther aka 'Little Grandmother' and her claims to be their 'shaman'

"I was called to be the shaman for the Sioux and Salish tribes."

"The Culture and Elders Committee of the Confederated Salish and Kootenai Tribes of the Flathead Reservation protect the intangible cultural resources of the tribes including language, songs, stories etc.  No tribal Elders or elders have met with nor do they condone the claims and actions made by Kiesha Crowther.  She is not their 'shaman', she has no right to claim this title and the Elders and elders of CSKT of the Flathead Reservation would like her to cease and desist immediately from making such false claims that erode the traditions that members of the CSKT Culture and Elders Committee are trying to preserve."
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: debbieredbear on December 18, 2010, 05:51:14 pm
 
Quote
quote:Janie Jones 1102723]
Yes they grudgingly admit that Keisha's message is very positive

what is it with some people? I had a friend who was told a guy was a FRAUD, a LIAR, a WOMANIZER who knew diddly squat about Indians period, and she said "But I don't think what he says is so bad. It's so positive and full of love." ?? I about couldn't speak and I finally was able to say that it wasn't WHAT he said it was WHO he was. And who he was is a lying, scumbag POS.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Freija on December 18, 2010, 06:06:09 pm
It saddens me that these people have already been so hypnotized and mesmerized by Kiesha that they are almost beyond contact.
I have recently tried to reason with two of my Swedish friends, just explaining the feeling of hurt and anger that Kiesha´s actions cause Native Americans, especially the Salish. What came out of it was that they were pretty irritated that the complaints from Ndn:s disturbed their loving, friendly (not friendly to Ndn:s, though) world. If it wasn´t for angry Ndn:s (and some angry non-Ndn:s), everything would be so perfect! Kiesha was so full of love, and this made her sad....

I never thought my friends would utter anything like it!! It´s like a pedophile being irritated that the child screams as it disturbs the moment of love. I never realized how far this has gone in a scary cultlike way. I do not want them to disappear into this world of not seeing, not hearing, not feeling anything that their leader doesn´t permit.  :-[
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Spandex~Atom on December 18, 2010, 07:42:59 pm
I never realized how far this has gone in a scary cultlike way. I do not want them to disappear into this world of not seeing, not hearing, not feeling anything that their leader doesn´t permit.  :-[

Exactly. It's a very quick rise to a worldwide following, and I think this sort of thing is going to become more common in the coming years, especially with the fear of what people are being told 'might' happen at 2012 (even if fear is on a subconscious level and overlayed with the percieved 'positivity' of the ascension belief).

These people are 'activating' their 'heart consciousness', but at the expense of rational thinking. The heart is not a substitute for the brain (metaphorically speaking), both have to be used in the pursuit of truth. This is exactly why people are being told to turn away from 'mind-consciousness' and rely unconditionally on 'heart-consciousness', and that this will make them more intelligent. It won't. Love, Knowledge and Wisdom are not the same things, even though they are linked together like all things are.
"Out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks", and the heart can be full of deceptions, lies, greed and violence. We are NOT perfect, and this is a nuage fallacy. Yes we try our best, but we often fail. Saying this is NOT giving in to a negative paradigm, it's just seeing the reality of the situation, and nobody should be afraid to state the truth for fear of being rejected or ignored by their peers who 'switch the channel' in favour of a viewpoint of fundamentalist positivism. Fundamentalist positivism is a sort of tyrrany of the spirit that is being inculcated by nuage groups at present, and it can only lead to disillusionment and a very unbalanced worldview. You cannot be a light in the darkness by not acknowledging there is darkness in the world. Advocates will say that this assessment isn't true, and that they all know how bad it is but just wish to concentrate on the positive, so that they can create a harmonic group energy that will help the world 'enlighten', as a result of the 'hundredth monkey effect and the morphic field created. While there is truth in the power of consciousness to counter the darkness, we aren't going to successfully do this by simply 'switching the channel and burying our heads like the ostrich! We have to cultivate the skill to keep a loving outlook towards others DESPITE the realities infront of us, in other words to be IN the world even if we are not OF it. Does this make any sense? There is no enlightenment by being love to love alone, and there is no evolution of spirit in being light only when surrounded by light. We will really start to evolve by acknowledging the darkness around us , not hiding from it, and being loving anyway. To not ignore the hurt we or others cause, but to try and repair and overcome the faults with love which is INFORMED AND AWAKE with EYES WIDE OPEN in the darkness, not with eyes closed and chanting the mantra "all is well" when the world falls around us. We are here to be witnesses and to make a change in spirit with AWARENESS.

Thats it....me channelling me. Nobody needs to be channeling anyone else than themselves imo. That's a sure way to spot a potential misguided soul imo.



Important, please read:

Official Statement from Salish Elders Regarding Kiesha Crowther
(click on link above this quote box to read in full)  

I'm sorry Kiesha. I grew up on the Flathead reserve. All of my family are scattered every where there. I have them from Arlee all the way to Polson, going east to west, and no one knows of you. I have spoken with tribal elders who have no idea who you are. At pow wow, I asked around to see if you were made a shaman over our reserve and our people. I had people laugh in my face...............(click link above this quote box read in full)


Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: educatedindian on December 18, 2010, 08:07:42 pm


This post from the same site, as she posted about this thread:

Janie Jones
User ID: 1102723
 Canada
11/20/2010 1:06 AM


Re: 2012 INFO: Kiesha Crowther "Little Grandmother" speaks on 20†0 11 2012 ** DO NOT Watch ** Quote

....A good tip off that you're seeing the real thing is the PTB try to destroy and discredit them. Look at what was done to Chinese Chi Gong Master Li Hongzhi the developer of the high level meditation system Falun Gong.

The PTB smeared him as a cult leader rather than a scammer as they are doing to Keisha because he taught Falun Gong....

Don't know what she means by PTB. Falun Gong are a cult. No doubt about that. Their leader is a wacko believer in pseudoscience who claims, for example, that mixed race people are an evil plot begun by space aliens. His cult is as authoritarian as Jim Jones or the Moonies, and LI Hongzhi lives a cushy life in New York off the wealth of his followers. If someone would praise him as genuine, there's not a whole lot one can do to reach them.

Posted the Salish elders statement in a separate thread so no one has to search for it in this one. After all,this is now the longest thread on the site after the Holzwarth one.
http://www.newagefraud.org/smf/index.php?topic=3055.msg26118#new
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Spandex~Atom on December 18, 2010, 08:22:33 pm
The PTB or TPTB is shorthand for The Powers That Be. This is the elusive 'They', or what is referred to as the powers behind the throne of the few masters that own multinational corporations. They are commonly understood to be involved in service-to-self occult practices and work through a heirarchical number of factions with the same goals to maintain a 'worker-bee' populace by unspiritual and materialistic slavery. I call them for want of a better word The Cabal.

The trouble is that any cult leader can use this as a way to justify themselves as 'The True Faith'. The more people try to show them up for what they are, the more the followers will believe it's the truth because they are being attacked. This is a tool also used in The Bible to show to the faithful that they have the truth, and well used by nuage cults. It's origin is in verses like Matthew 5:11 "How blessed are you whenever people insult you, persecute you, and say all sorts of evil things against you falsely because of me!" So when people make accusations and seem to persecute (which is the viewpoint of the blind follower), it is taken as difinitive proof that they really do have the truth, and pushes them further into the cult with a feeling of comradeship in the face of 'The Adversary', or the fashionable way of putting it...TPTB.


This is allready evident in the followers of Kiesha, sadly. We are seen as 'workers of Darkness.  ???

In the minds of the devotees of her personality cult, opposition is going to be seen as opposition to the 'message of Love' and a result of the cunning spiritual forces of darkness working through willing or unwitting foes.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: SAMy on December 18, 2010, 10:01:38 pm
It saddens me that these people have already been so hypnotized and mesmerized by Kiesha that they are almost beyond contact.

SAMy was also somewhat surprised by how the owners of the channels of Kiesha's videos responded.  Just love and light, her past or story in the physical plane does not matter.   

Well SAMy got a remedy to help with that.   This is as clear as SAMy can make the message today.

SAMy says http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YO5Dx4hF6PE (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YO5Dx4hF6PE) 

If this don't wake you up then you better ask whatever higher powers you believe in to do a check on you....
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Smart Mule on December 18, 2010, 10:24:07 pm
Holy crow SAMy, that was intense.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Spandex~Atom on December 18, 2010, 10:25:06 pm
Brilliant work SAMy! If that doesn't get through to people they are not going to listen to anything.
Sadly, the fully brainwashed ones won't get more than a few seconds in until they 'feel negativity'  :-[  and switch the channel. The truth is inaccessible to them because to see truth sometimes means to experience pain.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Twinkie_Slayer on December 18, 2010, 10:54:45 pm
Get down SAMy  ;D
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: AlaskaGrl on December 18, 2010, 11:11:29 pm
Wonderful to see!   I'm in the process of posting to my FB page, and getting my FB friends to re-post as well.
Don't forget using Twitter as well...   I'm also posting this up to my website tonight.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Spandex~Atom on December 18, 2010, 11:18:55 pm
Spreading the word on other online forums here. I won't say where because I don't want them to be taken down and censored by the freedom of speech killers.

Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: critter - a white non-ndn person on December 19, 2010, 01:51:13 am
Freija sorry about your friends, I know that must hurt to see them getting sucked into all this. I made a reply regarding this whole 'but it's a positive message' type thing. I said

" a person doesn't just follow their heart without also using their intelligence.. most times when a person does that, they find that old saying 'too good to be true' and usually end up hurt."


I hope your friends figure this out..
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: critter - a white non-ndn person on December 19, 2010, 01:52:26 am
SAMy, I have someone posting on my wall on FB

 Liv-Hanne Nt:   Be careful Jane, this is not an evidence.This is only a youtube video which I made for fun. Or maybe not.

I'm assuming you are not Liv-Hanne Nt?   :)
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Twinkie_Slayer on December 19, 2010, 01:58:07 am
 I started another Facebook group. I'm not the most computer saavy individual, so if anyone wants to jump on and post some  videos or information, be my guest. I'll try  to get started here in the next day or so.

Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: critter - a white non-ndn person on December 19, 2010, 02:18:14 am
Twinkie, I'm not sure 'groups' are available to anyone on FB but that you are invited..

I did a search to see if your group would come up.. it didn't, but HAH! :) :) :) IF you start to
type Little Grandmother in the search the video's show up. LOL  GOOD !!  YAY!  HA HA
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Cat on December 19, 2010, 02:39:23 am
This is the best one yet... I did a quick check to see if it was on here and didnt see it, and if it already is, this just deserves to be on here twice! sooo..
Satire video on Crowther...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I4s-gsd631E&feature=player_embedded
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: SAMy on December 19, 2010, 02:40:21 am
LG's next event in Santa Fe. NM is @ Santa Fe Center for Spiritual Living - Friday and Saturday February 4-5, 2011
If someone who is a regular poster to NAFPS lives west of the mississippi river and has the time to go, a strong interest in going, but not the financial means, please PM me.

Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: SAMy on December 19, 2010, 03:20:07 am
And, on another track, what about having friends, esp. tribal enrolled, call Santa Fe Center for Spiritual Living at (505) 983-5022 asking them why they would continue to host an event there when LG has been dee-nied by the tribal elders she claims to be commissioned from ?   If email is used include these links ?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QpC-9S1Bplk (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QpC-9S1Bplk) - tribal statement
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=am7Ehs5XBLU (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YO5Dx4hF6PE) - LG or Change the World

Think hot potato.

Santa Fe Center for Spiritual Living
505 Camino de los Marquez
Santa Fe, NM 87505
(505) 983-5022
info@santafecsl.org
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Twinkie_Slayer on December 19, 2010, 03:23:49 am
Twinkie, I'm not sure 'groups' are available to anyone on FB but that you are invited..

I did a search to see if your group would come up.. it didn't, but HAH! :) :) :) IF you start to
type Little Grandmother in the search the video's show up. LOL  GOOD !!  YAY!  HA HA

   Let me check the settings. I thought it is open and public but this sort of stuff baffles the crap out of me on a good day.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: critter - a white non-ndn person on December 19, 2010, 03:29:23 am
Well, I think "groups" are altogether different than 'pages'.. groups is something new (i think?)
I'm not FB savvy so.. not real sure here either..
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Spandex~Atom on December 19, 2010, 05:51:56 am
(http://i1115.photobucket.com/albums/k558/SpandexAtom/masterfraudjpg.jpg)



Important, please read:

Official Statement from Salish Elders Regarding Kiesha Crowther
(click on link above this quote box to read in full)   



Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Defend the Sacred on December 19, 2010, 06:10:11 am
Excellent, Spandex :-)
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Freija on December 19, 2010, 09:14:13 am
Freija sorry about your friends, I know that must hurt to see them getting sucked into all this. I made a reply regarding this whole 'but it's a positive message' type thing. I said
" a person doesn't just follow their heart without also using their intelligence.. most times when a person does that, they find that old saying 'too good to be true' and usually end up hurt."
I hope your friends figure this out..

Thanks, Critter. Yes, it´s the channel between the diaphragm and the brain that needs to stay open. And cleaned. Too much activity in one end of that channel without involving the other end is not good in the long run. We were given intuition and feelings, we were also given a brain. Collaboration between the two is the key....!  ;D
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Laurel on December 19, 2010, 09:46:22 am
I started another Facebook group. I'm not the most computer saavy individual, so if anyone wants to jump on and post some  videos or information, be my guest. I'll try  to get started here in the next day or so.

http://www.facebook.com/home.php?sk=group_168555623180533

I asked to join.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: LittleOldMan on December 19, 2010, 11:35:12 am
Seems to me that Coup is being counted in multiples.  Just a note. It has been my experience that if a person approaches Creator with a clean heart and in the right way one gains an unconquerable ally.  Might I suggest that that those that have not already done so consider this.  Offered with respect an in Spirit "LittleOldMan"     
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: mtheory on December 19, 2010, 01:01:08 pm
i want to ask y'all to think about the word 'stolen' when referring to your ceremonies.
the word 'stolen' in regards to ceremony - when i hear it, or heard it earlier in my life -
actually adds authenticity to the claims made by the fraud.   when you use the word it implies
that the fraud has been involved in traditional ceremony w/ ndn's and is taking those ceremonies
off the rez w/out authorization (which we know is not true in lg's case or most cases).  it makes us white folks (at least a lot of us), feel like we're getting something
special, something you don't want us to have -something we need and deserve - and thanks to this brave rebel (fraud) we're getting it.   

i realize this may not make any sense to some of you.  you're probably not white. 
i just wonder if it wouldn't be more effective w/ us to say that she is faking ceremonies she has never seen, and that her customers have never seen, that she's never seen a real ceremony to steal. or something, a way to re-word the stolen part.  food for thought

see, we don't mind stealing so much, if its something you wouldn't give us (this should be fairly clear by now), but we don't like being duped.   we love to be offended more than anything. 
now, pls no white hate comments.  i love being white
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: educatedindian on December 19, 2010, 02:04:16 pm
LG's next event in Santa Fe. NM is @ Santa Fe Center for Spiritual Living - Friday and Saturday February 4-5, 2011
If someone who is a regular poster to NAFPS lives west of the mississippi river and has the time to go, a strong interest in going, but not the financial means, please PM me.


Samy, is it Ctr for Spiritual Living, or Sante Fe Soul, or two events? This is SF Ctr Sp Living.
http://www.santafecsl.org/csl_events.html

I don't see her listed. But if she is there it looks to me they are just unaware of her falseness. They likely think she's just a Native speaker. I think they'd be unlikely to host her if they knew what she actually is.

I don't see her listed at Santa Fe Soul either.
http://www.santafesoul.com/calendar.cfm

That group might be a little less willing to listen. I see listings for someone claiming to teach about Mayan dreamtime, and several shamanic practitioners. But for the most part it's things like yoga. It'd still be worth the effort to try and get them to cancel her.

Where's the listing of events for her?
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: SAMy on December 19, 2010, 02:10:45 pm
i want to ask y'all to think about the word 'stolen' when referring to your ceremonies.

Point made an accepted.  SAMy says for the youtube site the current vid for Change the World will be de-listed (still out there) and a language tweaked version posted.  All new searches will find the tweaked video.   Send SAMy a PM if you have further high-value word-smithing.

To make it clear, NAFPS and SAMy are coincidental, related only through this forum.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: SAMy on December 19, 2010, 02:13:46 pm
LG's next event in Santa Fe. NM is @ Santa Fe Center for Spiritual Living - Friday and Saturday February 4-5, 2011
If someone who is a regular poster to NAFPS lives west of the mississippi river and has the time to go, a strong interest in going, but not the financial means, please PM me.


Samy, is it Ctr for Spiritual Living, or Sante Fe Soul, or two events? This is SF Ctr Sp Living.
http://www.santafecsl.org/csl_events.html

I don't see her listed. But if she is there it looks to me they are just unaware of her falseness. They likely think she's just a Native speaker. I think they'd be unlikely to host her if they knew what she actually is.

I don't see her listed at Santa Fe Soul either.
http://www.santafesoul.com/calendar.cfm

That group might be a little less willing to listen. I see listings for someone claiming to teach about Mayan dreamtime, and several shamanic practitioners. But for the most part it's things like yoga. It'd still be worth the effort to try and get them to cancel her.

Where's the listing of events for her?

Indeed, apologies, she was at santafesoul this year, and C.S.L. next year.  Will tweak the original post now...
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: TRIBALMOONS@yahoo.com on December 19, 2010, 02:44:33 pm
Friend sent this to me.......

<object width="640" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/QpC-9S1Bplk?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US&amp;rel=0"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/QpC-9S1Bplk?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US&amp;rel=0" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="640" height="385"></embed></object>
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: SAMy on December 19, 2010, 02:49:27 pm
Where's the listing of events for her?
http://littlegrandmother.net/SantaFeEvents.aspx (http://littlegrandmother.net/SantaFeEvents.aspx)

If you go here http://www.santafecsl.org/calendar.html (http://www.santafecsl.org/calendar.html) there is a 'firm booking' on each day of the workshop for LG site.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: critter - a white non-ndn person on December 19, 2010, 06:27:23 pm
I received a message from someone in my FB mail. They said thanks for telling the truth about the lies KC was telling. I thought I'd share this here, so you all can know that the effort is reaching some, and some are thankful for it. Of course, I'm not sure if this person already knew.. but I'm suspecting not regarding the other comments in the mail.

:)
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Peasant on December 19, 2010, 07:49:01 pm
One other thing that came to mind:

http://www.vimeo.com/16830337

@1:24 "Do you know now that we use less than a third of our brains, very soon we will be gifted all of that"

Not true. Every cell in our brains has a purpose. About 10% of our brains is active at any given time, but the focus is constantly shifting. If we'd use all of our brains, we'd be in a constant state of epilepsy. It's something i wouldn't want anyone to endure...
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Freija on December 19, 2010, 08:08:55 pm
Not true. Every cell in our brains has a purpose. About 10% of our brains is active at any given time, but the focus is constantly shifting. If we'd use all of our brains, we'd be in a constant state of epilepsy. It's something i wouldn't want anyone to endure...

Actually, that made me react, too.
The fact that we only use a third of our brain is something that was quite often stated about 20 years ago - making people excited about what could be taking place in the rest of the brain. Since then we know better, just like you say. Seems that Kiesha hasn´t caught up on recent research.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Smart Mule on December 19, 2010, 08:42:17 pm
On the tribe of many colors website they are soliciting donations. We need to contact the IRS en mass. Also, they need to be allerted to the enourmous amount of funds she is bringing in. Her personal website lists her current address as NM (in the faq section where you can send her presents), she also has a physical address in CO. Neither state has Kiesha Crowther, Little Grandmother or Tribe of Many Colors listed as a business entity. For the state of colorado please contact the secretary of state, her residence is listed as Sanford Colorado. For NM also contact the secretary of state, address is listed as
Kiesha Crowther
c/o Santa Fe Soul Health and Healing Center
2905 Rodeo Park Drive East
Santa Fe, NM 87505-6313
She could be funnelling donations under the umbrella of the above organization but I havent been able to find anything pointing to that.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: SAMy on December 19, 2010, 09:23:40 pm
I'm on the phone with a member of the CSKT Culture and Elders Committee.  The Culture and Elders Committee protect the intangible cultural resources of the tribes including language, songs, stories etc.  The tribal Elder I am speaking with states she nor any other Elder or elder have met with nor do they condone the claims and actions made by Kiesha Crowther.  She is not their 'shaman', she has no right to claim this title and the Elders and elders of CSKT of the Flathead Reservation would like her to cease and desist immediately from making such false claims that erode the traditions that members of the CSKT Culture and Elders Committee are trying to preserve.  
Can we get the name of the person who made the statement and/or on tribal letterhead ?
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Smart Mule on December 19, 2010, 09:24:33 pm
Colorado SOS -

Suite 200
Department of State
1700 Broadway, Denver, CO 80290
303-894-2200 & press 2
303-869-4864 (FAX)
business@sos.state.co.us

New Mexico SOS -

New Mexico State Capitol
325 Don Gaspar, Suite 300, Santa Fe, NM 87503
505.827.3600 or 800.477.3632
MaryE.Herrera@state.nm.us

From the IRS website -

If you suspect or know of an individual or company that is not complying with the tax laws, you may report this activity by completing Form 3949-A. You may fill out Form 3949-A online, print it and mail it to:

Internal Revenue Service
Fresno..., CA 93888

You may use Form 13909, Tax-Exempt Organization Complaint (Referral) Form, to report an abusive transaction involving an exempt organization. To send a written complaint by mail, send to the following address:

IRS
EO Classification
MC 4910DAL
1100 Commerce Street
Dallas, TX 75242

In addition, the IRS Office of Tax Shelter Analysis maintains a hotline that can be used to provide information about abusive tax shelters.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Smart Mule on December 19, 2010, 09:26:03 pm
I'll call to get permission tomorrow and request a hardcopy on letterhead.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: SAMy on December 19, 2010, 09:54:33 pm
Hey, SAMy vids are going turtle while we make some changes.  We finally got LGs attention.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Spandex~Atom on December 19, 2010, 10:43:08 pm
One other thing that came to mind:

http://www.vimeo.com/16830337

@1:24 "Do you know now that we use less than a third of our brains, very soon we will be gifted all of that"

Not true. Every cell in our brains has a purpose. About 10% of our brains is active at any given time, but the focus is constantly shifting. If we'd use all of our brains, we'd be in a constant state of epilepsy. It's something i wouldn't want anyone to endure...

This struck me as just one more inaccuracy also, and it sounds like she is just picking a fraction 'out of the hat'.

Looking on the internet I came accross this: http://brain101.info/
"The new “Brain Theory” views the human brain as a “highly organized system”, similar to respiratory and digestive systems, that consists of 33 microbrains."

I think it's fair to say that nobody really knows how the brain works, or how much 'potential' it uses, but that we have only learned to realise just a small fraction of our possible potential. LESS than 1/3 lol.

People who go to Kiesha's talks are fed with such a slew of information on a variety of topics that they probably come out of the talks with all sorts of badly researched information jumbled up in their heads which they would have been better off doing a search for on the internet.

One of the traits of these nuage speakers is their ability to shift through a seemingly endless ammount of 'facts', so that anyone debunking them would have to write what would ammount to a dissertation which hardly anyone would read.  They probably use what is called a 'memory castle' which is a technique to help remember the information you want to call upon, and is used alot by public speakers. Unfortunately Kiesha's memory castle if she has one has been filled with alot of junk, and people are paying to hear what's there/ Then there's the love and light message of course, which makes all that ok? It's amazing , the response of people that it's her message of love that matters, and we just have to raise our vibrations. Using an analogy, what is better to eat, good food which is clean or good food where you have to pick out alot of garbage?
 


Important, please read:

Official Statement from Salish Elders Regarding Kiesha Crowther
(click on link above this quote box to read in full)   



Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Twinkie_Slayer on December 19, 2010, 10:55:50 pm
The professional fundamentalist Young Earth Creationists use the same rapidfire shift from topic to topic to create overload and make a point by point refutation almost impossible. It's known as the "Gish Gallop".
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Freija on December 19, 2010, 11:08:52 pm
We finally got LGs attention.

 :o ??? :D
*curious*
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Smart Mule on December 19, 2010, 11:30:17 pm
From youtube:

Little Grandmother
Dear YouTube user,

It would be well if you voluntarily removed your video about Little Grandmother: "Tribal Statement on Kiesha Crowther aka 'Little Grandmother'"

Of course, if you prefer to document exactly whose words you are quoting, we will check the reference and verify their accuracy.

I am in touch with the owner of the video you used to make sure you secured his permission in advance because we already know you did not have Kiesha's permission to use the video clip.

This is a request and hopefully you'll agree it's better for you and us to simply remove the piece. If not, we'll need to talk about copyright and other legal issues.

Thanks in advance.

Dear Jennifer, Handler of the Great and Powerful Mini Nana -

The 1961 Report of the Register of Copyrights on the General Revision of the U.S. Copyright Law cites examples of activities that courts have regarded as fair use: “quotation of excerpts in a review or criticism for purposes of illustration or comment; quotation of short passages in a scholarly or technical work, for illustration or clarification of the author’s observations; use in a parody of some of the content of the work parodied; summary of an address or article, with brief quotations, in a news report; reproduction by a library of a portion of a work to replace part of a damaged copy; reproduction by a teacher or student of a small part of a work to illustrate a lesson; reproduction of a work in legislative or judicial proceedings or reports; incidental and fortuitous reproduction, in a newsreel or broadcast, of a work located in the scene of an event being reported.”
http://www.copyright.gov/fls/fl102.html
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Spandex~Atom on December 19, 2010, 11:55:33 pm
This is a request and hopefully you'll agree it's better for you and us to simply remove the piece. If not, we'll need to talk about copyright and other legal issues.

They forgot to mention the misuse of the cultural identity of Native Americans by Kiesha, and wether or not she will be recanting, and altering all her 'workshop' material to make no reference to her fraudulent claims.   
It's amusing when someone who is misappropriating a peoples cultural heritage has the gall to make threats which if carried out would only end in the wider publicity of their misdeeds.

Do they really believe they wouldn't just get laughed right out of court?  ??? ??? ::)
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Spandex~Atom on December 19, 2010, 11:59:13 pm



Important, please read:

Official Statement from Salish Elders Regarding Kiesha Crowther
(click on link above this quote box to read in full)   




http://www.spring.org.uk/2010/11/are-fast-talkers-more-persuasive.php

......These results, along with a couple of other studies, lead some researchers to think that speaking quickly was a potential 'magic bullet' of persuasion....

.....Exactly the reverse effect was seen when the message was pro-attitudinal. When preaching to the converted, it was slow speech that emerged as the most persuasive....

So it seems we might well have reason to fear fast talkers if they are delivering a message we're not inclined to agree with. It seems the fast pace is distracting and we may find it difficult to pick out the argument's flaws. Similarly when faced with an audience gagging to agree, the practised persuader would do well to slow down and give the audience time to agree some more.
_____________________

Kiesha in Zurich 2/2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o7iJdF1lv1E
this is a perfect example of the slow-speech, strangely put together in a way that is a bit like a fast-speech in the way that it bombards the consciousness with a stream of information, imo,
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Twinkie_Slayer on December 20, 2010, 12:20:45 am
So the video was taken down? Did anyone save a copy of it?
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Smart Mule on December 20, 2010, 12:25:19 am
The videos will be going back up eventually, as far as I know copies were saved.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Spandex~Atom on December 20, 2010, 12:26:27 am
Kiesha in Zurich 2/2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o7iJdF1lv1E

@7:00 in the above video Kiesha says that the star beings are hiding on earth in the mentally disabled.

So for those of us who suffer with clinical depression or some form of psychosis (and who doesn't to one degree or another, imo), we might very well be a 'hiding' star person!
Wether that is part of the truth or not, and if you believe the universe is full of life and in reincarnation it isn't a strange sounding thing, it's a dangerous to make this specific statemets as it could easily cause someone who is struggling with self identity while suffering with mental illness to be misled into a 'hall of mirrors' and illusion. They then become dependant on the 'master' who has imparted such 'enlightenment' to them, in many cases. It's the same tack used by nuage gurus when they use the idea of Indigo children, as kids who have problems, to appeal to parents who want someone to tell them how special their kids are.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Smart Mule on December 20, 2010, 12:40:15 am
http://www.tribeofmanycolors.net/

"Due to administrational needs - the site is actually not accessible - Thank you for your Visit"

Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Spandex~Atom on December 20, 2010, 12:45:06 am
it has the login still. does that mean its available if you log in? That's what anyone would assume.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: SAMy on December 20, 2010, 12:47:10 am
So the video was taken down? Did anyone save a copy of it?
SAMy took it all down and is reuploading with some changes.  Still have everything. 

Now reviewing a court case the EFF won in July regarding Fair Use.  Looks pretty clear that up to 30 seconds segments, and multiples, are FAIR USE game (the folks who spooked me can also read up on this one http://www.eff.org/press/archives/2010/07/26 and https://www.eff.org/files/filenode/dmca_2009/RM-2008-8.pdf). 

Am currently re-posting new material and awaiting letterhead from CSKT before re-adding video on tribal rebuttal of LGs claims of being the shaman of Sioux and Salish. This is now a known false claim.  How someone can go around saying junk like that and then think everyone is just gonna forget about it, like it was growing pains, cmon, she was 30 when she did whatever solitary four days fast to become a 'shaman'.  Did she go to Siberia?  There ain't no 'shamans' from Turtle Island.   SAMy KNOWS that a single four day fast, even if you're dancing your head off, don't qualify you to step into some leadership and teaching role where people are going to put the trust and faith in you.  That's why native folk said you got to be at least 50 before you start talkin.  Whoever initiated LG must not have known that.  It's causing problems for everyone.

What LG and her handlers really don't get is that her claim of being 'THE shaman of the Sioux (cough, cough, did you mean Lakota, Dakota, Nakota, or something else) and Salish tribes' and her wearing buckskin and using the Chanupa (playing with that could get you killed) and having video talks with medicine shields behind her absolutely DOES tie her brand to Native American culture.  She doesn't get that she is blending her brand with an existing brand, NDN.  In the corporate world that would be trademark infringement.  But this is more like CULTURAL GENOCIDE.  And they just don't get that.  Oh no, she is not teaching anything Native American.  There's something missing upstairs folks.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Twinkie_Slayer on December 20, 2010, 12:55:20 am
it has the login still. does that mean its available if you log in? That's what anyone would assume.

 Wonder if they are making the site viewable by "approved" members only?
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Spandex~Atom on December 20, 2010, 01:03:41 am
They are probably watching this board and seeing which members log in, lol. 
Don't have to be psychic....
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: SAMy on December 20, 2010, 01:17:11 am
I would rather LG come clean but ....

LIBRARY OF CONGRESS
Copyright Office
37 CFR Part 201
[Docket No. RM 20088]
Exemption to Prohibition on Circumvention of Copyright Protection Systems for
Access Control Technologies
AGENCY:
Copyright Office, Library of Congress.
ACTION:
Final rule.

Excerpt from section 3 page 6 paragraph 2

...
"Finally, it expressed general support for the request to designate a class that would permit extraction of film clips for use in noncommercial videos, but suggested a requirement that the clips from the audiovisual work must be for remix videos that are used for social comment or criticism, or that are used in transformativetype works according to established fair use principles."
...
Dated: July 20, 2010
James H. Billington,
The Librarian of Congress.
[FR Doc. 04????? Filed ????04; 8:45 am]BILLING CODE 141030S
[FR Doc. 2010-18339 Filed 07/26/2010 at 8:45 am; Publication Date: 07/27/2010]


So at this point I'll review the exist vids checking also for language.  BUT, per the above ruling, SAMy, and anyone on youtube, has the right to use video clips to hoot and hollar so long as we are complaning.   The general concensus from folks who have successfully defended DCMA changes is that 30 second clips, and multiples, are fair game.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: oneforall on December 20, 2010, 01:19:47 am
it has the login still. does that mean its available if you log in? That's what anyone would assume.

 Wonder if they are making the site viewable by "approved" members only?

No I thought that earlier on, but here is a link to LG site that works.

http://littlegrandmother.net/BIO.aspx (http://littlegrandmother.net/BIO.aspx)

Additionally just take a look at the faces of those who are in some kind of religious trance of adulation if you can bear it. 

http://littlegrandmother.net/SwedenPhotosJuly2010.aspx

Sad that children have been brought along into a web of deception and lies, IMO. Indeed The Handlers are handling this woman (Kiehsa Crowther) who is through my optics seriously fragmented, and damaged to further their ambitions, but this is just my view of it.

Don't know if what I'm pointing to makes any sense to anyone else, but what I perceive here in this instance and in the other associations of this "organization" is quite disturbing, needs to be exposed, along with the cease and desist of exploiting tribal ways.  Perhaps this LG scenario will be the ultimate "poster child" of an epidemic which is a cancer spreading like wildfire.  Again I apologize if this does not make sense, but am having a difficult time these days expressing myself. 

I thank you all for the work you are doing not only on behalf of NDN's, but really this benefits all people, when lies are dissolved and liars are shown for what they truly are. There is a great deal of work to be done it seems. 
 :-*
   

Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: SAMy on December 20, 2010, 01:22:52 am
They are probably watching this board and seeing which members log in, lol. 
Don't have to be psychic....
If they were smart, on second thought, oh ya, if they were smart they would be doing something else.  But I won't mention that until they come back up.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Spandex~Atom on December 20, 2010, 02:01:26 am
It's hideous how people can put on such a convincing act, it's almost as if they are able to put themselves, at least for the moment, into the frame of mind of someone who actually believes 100% in everything they are saying.
Maybe I'm just gullible, but it almost seems as if she believes she is what she says. I wonder wether she has been 'groomed' and brainwashed by her fake elders for the role. To me it sounds like she is just parroting alot of stuff that has been fed to her as a script by her peers, like Bernard Perona (aka Drunvalo Melchizedek), Adam 'Yellowbird' and others of their ilk.
I know what it's like to be well 'brainwashed' into some really outlandish beliefs and even in the face of direct evidence which would allow any rational analysis of the situation to arrive at a different conclusion, to just 'set it aside' because the paradigm you have had 'proved' to you HAS to be true, or else you must be going crazy (cognitive dissonance big-time)! I wonder if this is what has happenned to her, and together with the ego-boost of the following and the cash flowing in...... it's an addictive mix. The sad thing is that there are some bits and pieces of truth amongst her messages, especially when it's about everyone coming together and being more loving.
If she has a 'genuine bone in her body' (?), she needs to really reassess her faith in the people she is trusting to tell her the truth, (like the aforementioned), and anyone feeding into the same paradigm. Then she needs to make a public statement apologising for misleading so many people about her claims which have been refuted by the REAL ELDERS, and put any profits she has garnered while basing her career on these claims into a fund held by those elders to help their people. Once she has done that she should probably go and spend some time alone and reflect on the whole situation, and what truth there is in anything she has been told. If she wants to then continue spreading the word of worldwide peace and love, that's great, but she should stop basing her credibility on others, or things that have very little basis in fact, or make prophecies when the info 'coming through to her' is obviously phoney and the sayings of trickster people or even spirits.
She might even be able to retain the respect of a few of her followers that way instead of going down 'in flames', speaking metaphorically.

Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Spandex~Atom on December 20, 2010, 02:13:09 am
Indeed The Handlers are handling this woman (Kiehsa Crowther) who is through my optics seriously fragmented, and damaged to further their ambitions, but this is just my view of it.

Don't know if what I'm pointing to makes any sense to anyone else, but what I perceive here in this instance and in the other associations of this "organization" is quite disturbing, needs to be exposed, along with the cease and desist of exploiting tribal ways.  Perhaps this LG scenario will be the ultimate "poster child" of an epidemic which is a cancer spreading like wildfire.  Again I apologize if this does not make sense, but am having a difficult time these days expressing myself.  

Really, this makes perfect sense, and is what I'm picking up too. She really does seem to be a puppet in this, even if she is partly a willing one. Her associations aren't lightweights, and come accross to me as people who could be quite powerful when it comes to indocrinating/inculcating others into a paradigm. I feel there is something quite dark behind all this, even though it is all 'light and love' on the surface to the casual observer.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: SAMy on December 20, 2010, 02:15:32 am
her peers, like Bernard Perona (aka Drunvalo Melchizedek), Adam 'Yellowbird' and others of their ilk.

Wasn't John Kimmey sitting next to her in the 'Return of the Ancestors' videos?  Didn't she ever look into his background?   You hit so many things on the head.  No real elders around her, it's looking very much like a business where they groomed someone just a little bit off, called them on the phone, sold them a story, had them fast for 4 days, and viola, you are a shaman, the core of our business, and off they go.   I'll PM something else I can't say here but it's along the lines of what you hit towards the end.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Spandex~Atom on December 20, 2010, 02:26:17 am
http://littlegrandmother.net/SwedenPhotosJuly2010.aspx

What are the black and red stripes going down her face supposed to mean, and the red hand-print on her chest?
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Spandex~Atom on December 20, 2010, 02:52:10 am
her peers, like Bernard Perona (aka Drunvalo Melchizedek), Adam 'Yellowbird' and others of their ilk.

Wasn't John Kimmey sitting next to her in the 'Return of the Ancestors' videos?  Didn't she ever look into his background?   You hit so many things on the head.  No real elders around her, it's looking very much like a business where they groomed someone just a little bit off, called them on the phone, sold them a story, had them fast for 4 days, and viola, you are a shaman, the core of our business, and off they go.   I'll PM something else I can't say here but it's along the lines of what you hit towards the end.

About Kimmey
http://www.newagefraud.org/smf/index.php?topic=2455.0

I also just looked at his free ebook mentioned in the link....I remember this stuff from before and it's faithless bs at the end of the day. Fearmongering and without any real belief in the Divine which it makes claims to follow.

words fail me, but if this is the type of stuff Kiesha is taking in, there is no wonder she would be fragmented.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: oneforall on December 20, 2010, 02:58:41 am
http://littlegrandmother.net/SwedenPhotosJuly2010.aspx

What are the black and red stripes going down her face supposed to mean, and the red hand-print on her chest?

Isn't this merely all a circus act, theatrics, costume, a grown woman playing dress-up? If it were not being done under false pretenses, and masquerading as any kind of legitimate ceremony or genealogy it would merely be a case of entertainment by a clown.  As the originator of the circus once said "There's a sucker born every minute"  Sadly these suckers are buying into a ridiculous spectacle that defames those from who it has been stolen from, and negates any kind of true spirituality. 

Planting crystals that were ripped from the earth back into the earth on "ley lines" as a means to save the planet? How about NOT flying to Europe wasting jet fuel?   >:(   ARRGH!

Excuse me while i go vomit.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: SAMy on December 20, 2010, 03:19:52 am
Excuse me while i go vomit.

She is givin crystals bad name.   ;D

Well, if you have heard of Delores Cannon, she is in touch with Spirit/HighSelves via deep trance hypnosis on clients.  She has been doing it for 20 years and getting consistent messages from different folks.  She, and Terence McKenna, both pointing to the likelyhood of a great bifurcation of planet earth. Like the splitting away of a higher dimensional earth from this one.   What an irony if all the folks who think they are gathering around this dress up NDN messiah are actually being setup for something they ain't expecting.   Maybe the prayers of the Ghost Dancers just took a while to be fulfilled.   Just sayin  ;-)

Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: oneforall on December 20, 2010, 03:21:56 am
PS: I wonder where this GREAT I AM's children are while she is galavanting across the globe?

"Daughter of Sacred Mother Earth, Sister to all Her children and friend to all things in Nature. I am the Great I Am... and so are you!"
littlegrandmother.net
tribeofmanycolors.net

These handlers and this network is darkness disguised as light.  Fragmenting all those who are actually seeking wholeness.  Exploiting what is sacred into a carnival of atrocity.  I personally pray for this woman who is so far from CREATOR that she now sits on a pedestal with those whose expressions can only be idol worship.  SAD. Yet this much i KNOW .....If/When one falls from humility what follows is humiliation.  Or, pride comes before a fall.  These are times of great transition here on planet earth and lies are being exposed at all levels of culture, society, business, politics, and especially religion.  Face it if people can still believe there is any sanctity in a Catholic Church where priests regularly abused innocent children, this sickness - this disease of spiritual bankruptcy - is rampant and as of yet still doing quite well, wearing different faces.  All we can do is continue to expose the lies, and hold our truth.  This does not however include allowing that which is sacred to be prostituted and made a sham of.  ONWARD - FORWARD - There is much work to be done.   ;)
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Spandex~Atom on December 20, 2010, 03:24:14 am
right, and if people want to help the Earth they don't need crystals to do it.

To the followers:
There are allready plenty of crystals down there allready and they can send them good energy any time they want. Planting crystals to heal the Earth is a gimmick which mainly server the purpose of flattering peoples ego, imo., and planting cash in fake guru's pockets.

You can't change the energetics of the Earth and heal the masses of crystals allready there by planting a few crystals. It's like trying to move a jumbo jet by attaching a string to a paper aeroplane.

The power of thought and intent with emotion isn't my point. Yes we also. know how crystals are used. But this crystal grid stuff she is using as part of her 'calling' is catered to a specific audience to rake in the cash. Ever think that we don't even need the physical crystals for the sort of thing she is promoting?
Don't give her your money.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: oneforall on December 20, 2010, 03:42:30 am
right, and if people want to help the Earth they don't need crystals to do it.

You can't change the energetics of the Earth and heal the masses of crystals allready there by planting a few crystals. It's like trying to move a jumbo jet by attaching a string to a paper aeroplane.

It occurred to me many decades ago that the delicate balance of this planet was greatly upset due to the displacement of various mineral deposits that were "strategically placed" where they were, for reasons that humans cannot or will not still fathom.  Yet if we examine the medicinal value inherent in trees and plants we can see a glimpse of the synchronistic nature of all that is in our physical matter reality and how it serves all life. 

To even suggest that the planting of a crystal back into a planet that has been pillaged, plundered,, and atomically rearranged is beyond stupidity.  To sell this as an act of healing the earth and of love is an abomination.  I can only "hope" that humans will wake-up to their own insanity. 

That "hope" thing is getting old, as am i.  BIG SIGH.  Am I angry at this deluded woman who calls herself Little Grandmother, why yes I AM but no more than the other fools and their foolishness.  Can they be turned around?  Well this forum and its workings are a good start and we gotta start somewhere don't we?  Thank You all for what you do.  We can never surrender but it is quite a chore.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: SAMy on December 20, 2010, 03:44:10 am
These handlers and this network is darkness disguised as light.  Fragmenting all those who are actually seeking wholeness.
Shazaam.  You hit another one out of the park.  Ain't it just strange that KC/LG can make so many claims and just keep on going.  In politics and brainwashing you just keep repeating your message no matter what.  If someone tries to bring up an inconsistency, or a LIE, then just keep on going, no need to backtrack.  No need to apologize for saying on this video at 3:26 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Jt3ifzJqBM "That at age 30 I was made the shaman of the Sioux and Salish tribes".   That is a complete LIE and the tribal government has said she aint there shaman.   

It's hard enough to become a medicine person in the old way.  And for someone who is like, what, 25% NDN at best, to get a PHONE CALL from WHO?  And be told she is a shaman?  HEY FOLKS OUT THERE, TO BECOME A MEDICINE PERSON THEY DON'T CALL YOU ON THE PHONE.   If you are called to be a *medicine person* it is SPIRIT that calls you directly.  And then you spend your entire life becoming that person.  And you don't start teaching on your own until you are like FIFTY years old. 

Now she is saying that she is not making 'Native American teachings, never have.'  WHAT?  WHY do you have native medicine shields, dress, and pipe?   PEOPLE WAKE UP!!!   On this board you are not hearing just from NDNs but from professional WHITE PEOPLE who have been around the rez once or twice, heck, have any of her followers even been in a real ceremony?   Not many I'd guess.

Anyhow, this is over.  It's not about how nice LG is and living from your heart blablabla, that is just a cover.

FOLKS, here is the real thing.  If you ran into a REAL SPIRITUAL TEACHER they would NEVER CHARGE YOU MONEY.

So if you have to pay money to get close to LG then you are not around a true spiritual teacher, in any culture, anywhere on the planet.  Donations and 'love offerings' maybe, admission?  NEVER.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: SAMy on December 20, 2010, 03:48:38 am
To even suggest that the planting of a crystal back into a planet that has been pillaged, plundered,, and atomically rearranged is beyond stupidity.  To sell this as an act of healing the earth and of love is an abomination.  I can only "hope" that humans will wake-up to their own insanity. 

Hey one, u on fire!

Have to tell you.  I heard from someone that when New Agers go off planting crystals in the mountains of the East Coast that there are people who have to go out and energetically redo things that the New Agers are messing with.  You absolutely should not do anything energetic like that without first checking in with the custodians of the land who live there.  What ask permission?    Something that has not been the habit around here past few hundred years.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: critter - a white non-ndn person on December 20, 2010, 03:58:07 am
if these people met a real life spiritual so&so.. they wouldn't know it or believe it. they have an idea in their head of what someone "like that" should be.. which is part of the problem. people like KC just have to "fit" the role these folks have playing in their heads, and half the battle is done.

Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Spandex~Atom on December 20, 2010, 04:13:52 am
HEY FOLKS OUT THERE, TO BECOME A MEDICINE PERSON THEY DON'T CALL YOU ON THE PHONE.   If you are called to be a *medicine person* it is SPIRIT that calls you directly.

I wish people would use their BRAINS?/MIND and analyse the truth of what they are being told in relation to what is being done.
If you are The Great I AM and you can make what you think become a reality, then where is your power coming from and what are the limits emposed on it? Do you need to group around a 'Shaman', kneeling with arms outstreched to beam energy into crystals? This is nonsense!
What is the size and range of a thought/intent? Does it matter wether you are holding a crystal in your hands or if it's a foot away or a mile? If you are God or Goddess, are you unable to affect crystals that are allready there in abundance right beneath your feet? You don't need a Fake NA Shaman to do this. You are being told to believe one thing and led to act in a way that contradicts these beliefs. You don't need someone to be your focus. Everything you are being told you can read about with more depth on the internet, for no fee.

And also, nobody can give you a totem animal and colour. It has to come to you via SPIRIT if you want to really know. True knowledge doesn't come from going to talks, it comes with some serious effort by communing within.

You are being told that wearing crystals will bring you closer with Earth and form a link where you can send love to the Earth. What would you do if you didn't have crystals? Would this in some way mark you as insufficiently 'connected'? Can't you see how stupid this is? Don't you know your bodies are allready filled with millions of crystals? Do your research!
edit: and the ones we allready have in us are the ones that work best for us if we have any faith in Creator at all.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Spandex~Atom on December 20, 2010, 04:19:44 am
if these people met a real life spiritual so&so.. they wouldn't know it or believe it. they have an idea in their head of what someone "like that" should be..

lol, yes! you wouldn't even know them walking down the street from a 'normal' person, I imagine.

But Kiesha says she can see the energy and feel it etc, and gives the impression she knows what to do to 'make it right'. That's why her followers need her, because they can't do it themselves. What they are actually doing imo, is sending energy to illusion and trickery. If we want to see this as an entity then it's not one you want to be voting for.

It's amusing that in one of her videos there is a drum behind her with a dragonfly painted on it, which is said to symbolise the ability to see through illusions. It's like a symbolic mockery or joke. Something the dark-side love to do.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: SAMy on December 20, 2010, 04:27:16 am
Update, here are some of the new videos:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OTzbfByAdSo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OTzbfByAdSo)  Why our 'friend' likes Sweden
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_9phGyMm3Tc   Don't be fooled by any pretty plastic shamans
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0m5fvsE_W28 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0m5fvsE_W28)   What is it like to be fooled by a plastic shaman?
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: oneforall on December 20, 2010, 04:27:43 am
HEY FOLKS OUT THERE, TO BECOME A MEDICINE PERSON THEY DON'T CALL YOU ON THE PHONE.   If you are called to be a *medicine person* it is SPIRIT that calls you directly. 

I wish people would use their BRAINS?/MIND and analyse the truth of what they are being told in relation to what is being done.
If you are The Great I AM and you can make what you think become a reality, then where is your power coming from and what are the limits emposed on it? Do you need to group around a 'Shaman', kneeling with arms outstreched to beam energy into crystals? This is nonsense!
What is the size and range of a thought/intent? Does it matter wether you are holding a crystal in your hands or if it's a foot away or a mile? If you are God or Goddess, are you unable to affect crystals that are allready there in abundance right beneath your feet? You don't need a Fake Shaman to do this. You are being told to believe one thing and led to act in a way that contradicts these beliefs. You don't need someone to be your focus. Everything you are being told you can read about with more depth on the internet, for no fee.

And also, nobody can give you a totem animal and colour. It has to come to you via SPIRIT if you want to really know. True knowledge doesn't come from going to talks, it comes with some serious effort by communing within.

You are being told that wearing crystals will bring you closer with Earth and form a link where you can send love to the Earth. What would you do if you didn't have crystals? Would this in some way mark you as insufficiently 'connected'? Can't you see how stupid this is? Don't you know your bodies are allready filled with millions of crystals? Do your research!

And How!  Meanwhile back at the ranch here is a quote i borrowed from one of the many pages i have been reading and the link since i arrived here which certainly says it all to those who follow blindly from one who most consider a bona-fide "holy man":

"Each student must be encouraged to take responsible measures to confront teachers with unethical aspects of their conduct. If the teacher shows no sign of reform, students should not hesitate to publicize any unethical behavior of which there is irrefutable evidence. This should be done irrespective of other beneficial aspects of his or her work and of one's spiritual commitment to that teacher"
-His Holiness the Dalai Lama (Letter to the Sangha on Western Buddhism)


The link to this article is one that contains many great quotes on this stealing and polluting of NDN spirituality.  I recommend it to everyone as it may serve as good ammunition to this cause.

http://www.lelandra.com/comptarot/tarotindian.htm (http://www.lelandra.com/comptarot/tarotindian.htm)

And Yes SAMy it seems that my voice is returning and i'm on fire, but you can thank yourself and the others here for providing me with the spark!   :-* Thanks!
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Smart Mule on December 20, 2010, 04:29:00 am
After years of being on this site I still haven't figured out how to post pictures. I've been wanting to post picture of what an area, usually a formally wild and rural area, looks like after it is blasted. Pit and surface mining and the blasting that goes along with has a hugely negative environmental impact. It destroys habitat, messes up water was and water health and just plain posses me off. 'Ethically' mined crystals ARE STILL MINED, quite often in third world countries by indigenous and poor people.  Yes crystals are pretty. I have quite a few myself that I got long before I realized how dreadful the whole process is.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Twinkie_Slayer on December 20, 2010, 04:32:44 am
If you email them to me I can get 'em posted.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Smart Mule on December 20, 2010, 04:38:12 am
Thanks :) I'll email em in the morning when I'm back on my computer.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Spandex~Atom on December 20, 2010, 05:00:37 am
"Each student must be encouraged to take responsible measures to confront teachers with unethical aspects of their conduct. If the teacher shows no sign of reform, students should not hesitate to publicize any unethical behavior of which there is irrefutable evidence. This should be done irrespective of other beneficial aspects of his or her work and of one's spiritual commitment to that teacher"
-His Holiness the Dalai Lama (Letter to the Sangha on Western Buddhism)

.com/comptarot/tarotindian.htm[/url]

Yep, which is alot different from saying to people to disregard their 'mind-consciousness' and just 'switch the channel' when coming accross anything that makes them feel 'negative'.
What's really bizarre is how much people will spend to be told over and over again that where they should be seeking the truth is within, how we are all One, and the interconnectedness of all things. Like yeah. Don't spend any more money on people telling you about it. 

If you want to heal the earth go and do something practical as well as sitting and sending love energy. You can even do that while gardening or washing the dishes with eco-friendly dish-soap.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: oneforall on December 20, 2010, 05:07:39 am
All you need do is right click on the photo of your choice, then choose "copy image url" , paste the url into the message box, next highlight the url text, then select 'insert image' second from the left of the second row of formatting options.  Basically following what you would do if you wanted to include an active link, same protocol just a different function.  Hope this helps


(http://littlegrandmother.net/images/Kiesha%20meditating%20in%20water.jpg)
"Little Grandmother in Meditation" from her website

Does this say it all?  Imagine having a photographer handy to take a photo of you "meditating"!!!  ::) I can only imagine that the followers will now go sit in the water to meditate "properly" along with having their crystals in place to connect to Mother Earth or else!  How on earth can people not see this for what it is?  Out of all the plastic shame-ons i have now read about and all their antics i am quickly coming to see that KC-LG is the most ridiculous of them all?  This is truly PATHETIC.   :o
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Spandex~Atom on December 20, 2010, 05:15:18 am
This is the sort of ignorance that we are trying to break through (truly ignorant in the sense of the word, and not meant as a jibe):

STOP BUSTING MY CHOPS- AND TRAILING MY POSTS- What you're posting is False information!!!
Kiesha Crowther never claimed to be a Shaman from any one of those Tribes that you posted.
Those people are completly STUPID to think that she is even speaking for them. Thier names never were mentioned once in all of her You tube video broadcasts. They are simply trying to Divert attention away from her awsome messege of love and peace. People freak out when they hear someone actually trying to send a messege of love these days, and automatically jump tp conclusions and think they're tyring to form a cult or somthing. WISE UP, She's a spokes person for her tribe- get it?
In my opinion, her claiming to be a wisdom keeper, isn't all that bad either- she has great wisdom to tell everyone, Love.
Jesus Christ agrees with me too
 

People simply don't register what she says for some reason. I'm beginning to wonder at the enormity of the 'selective hearing' going on. It's truly baffling.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: oneforall on December 20, 2010, 05:33:18 am
This is the sort of ignorance that we are trying to break through (truly ignorant in the sense of the word, and not meant as a jibe):


In my opinion, her claiming to be a wisdom keeper, isn't all that bad either- she has great wisdom to tell everyone, Love.
Jesus Christ agrees with me too
 

People simply don't register what she says for some reason. I'm beginning to wonder at the enormity of the 'selective hearing' going on. It's truly baffling.

It is as it is in that people hear what they want to hear and god help you if you challenge that which does not hold up,  as you can see this particular person also speaks for Jesus Christ.  Not to worry about those who cannot yet see through things, their time will come, but do not forget those who have been reached and who had been questioning things.  We have put the nail in that coffin and so then the time spent to show what is false was not wasted.  As mentioned we live in a delusional population who thinks nothing of the exploitation of anything.  The only thing meaningfull to these people is all that is plastic, this is all they know,  and this is why the planet is in such disarray!  Meanwhile Carry On - FORWARD!
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Spandex~Atom on December 20, 2010, 05:41:56 am
TY oneforall, your right it's important to think of those that the message is getting through to :-)

Here are some of her claims, again:

http://littlegrandmother.net/UKEVENT.aspx
"Kiesha Crowther, also known as “Little Grandmother,” was initiated as shaman at age 30 by her mother’s tribe (Sioux/Salish),  and has been recognized by the Continental Council of Indigenous Elders  as Wisdom Keeper for North America, responsible for guiding the “Tribe of Many Colors.” "
"Since being initiated on her path as shaman and Wisdom Keeper, she has begun to share prophecy and teachings and to conduct sacred ceremony. She bears the responsibility for carrying and communicating earth wisdom and the ancient prophecies for our current age."

http://www.tribeofmanycolors.net/news-and-urgent-messages/response-to-misinformation-on-the-web.html
"Is Kiesha Really Native American? Is she a Legitimate Shaman?
Kiesha’s maternal side of the family is Sioux and Salish, and comes from the Flathead Reservation in Montana. Even though Kiesha did not grow up among tribal traditions, and had grown up away from the tribe, she was nevertheless made a shaman and recognized as a shaman by the elders of this tribe at age 30 (she had actually been recognized and marked out at age 8 as a future shaman while attending a tribal ceremony.) However, (and this is important), Kiesha was told by these elders that her “tribe” was to be the “Tribe of Many Colors”."


She bears the responsibility for carrying and communicating earth wisdom and the ancient prophecies for our current age

Please, followers of Kiesha, just take on board what this is saying here, exactly.
What it is saying is that she is THE ONE who is put in place for all to look up to as the channel of wisdom and ancient teachings for ALL PEOPLE OF THIS AGE to turn to for these truths!

This is a VERY EXTRAORDINARY CLAIM!.

Where is the proof?
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: oneforall on December 20, 2010, 06:19:34 am
"Do the names Sun Bear, Wallace Black Elk, Oh Shinna Fast Wolf, Brook Medicine Eagle, Harley Reagan Swiftdeer, Buck Ghost Horse, or Mary Thunder mean anything to you? Well, they should, because these pseudo-medicine quacks are passing themselves off as Native American spiritual leaders. Native American spirituality has become a fad to many New Age non-Indians and their naivete is being exploited to the limit by plastic medicine people, much to the dismay of traditional elders. Practicing Native American spirituality out of the context of Native American culture diminishes the integrity of both.
Many of these people are actually Indians who are spreading false rituals for profit. The rest are white men and women who claim to be Indian. For the most part they have changed their names to Indian names to lend authenticity to their flock.
One way to tell if these people are legitimate is whether they go into the Native American communities they claim to be from and perform the same rituals."
(Wendy Rose (Hopi))

It seems that in time the name of Kiesha Crowther - Little Grandmother will be added to this list, but the immensity of this "problem" is daunting.  Look at all the names not mentioned.  There is a Divine Intelligence that can be summoned and this intelligence is NOT the noisy mind chatter, and it DOES come from a deepness of the heart, a quiet sacred place that is all so very private and personal.  One does not access it through teachings, books, seminars, crystals or other outer manifestations.  One need not sit in water, wear certain clothing, hold crystals, or any other thing, one must simply be silent and in privacy OPEN to that which is just a heartbeat away, awaiting ones discovery.  We can not teach anyone anything, these revelations we receive are for us and never meant to be made into some dogma.  This is the follower mentality of self-aggrandizement that all religions practice, it is a lie and leads not to peace and love and unity but to insanity, exploitation, separation, and depravity.   To steal from NDN people in any way is such a travesty, as they have died just to keep and to have the right to practice their faith.  It takes great strength to be able to forgive the transgressions that time has wrought, and yet this i understand is key to going forward.  Such a tight-wire to walk this crazy life.  To walk it in TRUTH is everything and nothing, what a paradox.  Oh well just keep on keepin on and smiling at the reflection in the other side of that mirror i guess.  INTEGRITY can not be taken by anyone or anything.  Those that mislead others have themselves been misled and it seems to go round and round, until someone comes along, sheds some real light on the "merry go round", and those who were wondering already, jump off to land squarely on the sacred ground. Off the gold plated misery go round of the deluded ones, never to return.  Victory!  That is worth it then for those who were ready and just needed a little "help" The ones still riding that ride will unfortunately just get dizzier, but this is their choice. 

Forgive me if this is off topic, but i had to get it off my chest.  Way past my bedtime. 
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Saga on December 20, 2010, 09:40:58 am
Quote
She bears the responsibility for carrying and communicating earth wisdom and the ancient prophecies for our current age -

Please, followers of Kiesha, just take on board what this is saying here, exactly.
What it is saying is that she is THE ONE who is put in place for all to look up to as the channel of wisdom and ancient teachings for ALL PEOPLE OF THIS AGE to turn to for these truths!

This is a VERY EXTRAORDINARY CLAIM!.

It is also very egoistic claim, when you are doing it yourself and seemingly lack the proof. I mean, it is healthy to know your own value, but if you go around searching for people who to proclaim it... Everyone stumbles in it occasionally ofc, but for "normal" person with not to extraordinary "gifts" it stays quite small. This stuff with "chosen" ones always makes me think of hollywood...

Claims to be superior or to have superior people backing you up like this are also good sign of insecurity in the person and desire to build your own person stronger by lifting it through others or any achievement which is elevated and/or exaggerated or desire just be acknowledged by other people in whatever means by roles you are playing (victim, bully, "saint", know it all...). I should know, I've been fighting this thing often with myself in the past. Takes one to know one. :p Altho, I prefer not to lie about my "achievements", where's the honor in that and how would you actually learn to appreciate and respect yourself at all either, when not being truthful about who you are, where you come from and what you do. But in any case, for a person like this, the phone call from "elders" would work very well, so she could be used by others in this as well, if it is planned well enough to keep her under charm. And she would be thankful to tears too, to spread the "message". Altho... the info about being an artist and poet... I know how well we "artists" can boil up good stories and relate to different sorts of people to find just the way to act to catch them and to almost magically know what to say to get attention in different situations, just don't want to think that she would be that thoughtless, and plain evil, that she would have cooked it all up by herself. (Double, double toil and trouble; Fire burn, and caldron bubble....)
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Freija on December 20, 2010, 10:05:46 am
Well, since NOONE (not even The Dalai Lama) would make tha claim about being THE communicator of earth wisdom for the world, I guess the position is free. After all, she has said that she is the Creator and you can´t get much higher, can you?

Seriously, sometimes when I try to make people open their eyes, it is actually easier to go along with ridiculous claims, pretending they are true. Then ask questions based on these claims until followers are pushed over the edge, so to say, seeing how impossible it is. Quite often it works better that way.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Saga on December 20, 2010, 12:20:46 pm
To some it does work better that way, yes. :)

I have started to ask if creating your own world means that you can create yourself a new past and background you always wished to have as well, and if it means that it is true after you declare it being so... And saying that if remembering who I am means that I have to start pretending to be something I have not born to be - which creates guilt and shame and is disrespectful to both myself and the thing I am trying to pretend to be - I rather just create myself a good life and future without "remembering" who I am suppose to be and just be truthful to myself and others... :p

***

All this makes me thinks some political propaganda in the shades of history... Where people were led to think certain things as good things and to skip all the critic... (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propaganda)

Quote
From Wikipedia:
Propaganda campaigns often follow a strategic transmission pattern to indoctrinate the target group. This may begin with a simple transmission such as a leaflet dropped from a plane or an advertisement. Generally these messages will contain directions on how to obtain more information, via a web site, hot line, radio program, et cetera (as it is seen also for selling purposes among other goals). The strategy intends to initiate the individual from information recipient to information seeker through reinforcement, and then from information seeker to opinion leader through indoctrination.

A number of techniques based in social psychological research are used to generate propaganda. Many of these same techniques can be found under logical fallacies, since propagandists use arguments that, while sometimes convincing, are not necessarily valid.

Some time has been spent analyzing the means by which the propaganda messages are transmitted. That work is important but it is clear that information dissemination strategies become propaganda strategies only when coupled with propagandistic messages. Identifying these messages is a necessary prerequisite to study the methods by which those messages are spread. Below are a number of techniques for generating propaganda:
Propaganda to urge immigrants to move to California, 1876

Ad hominem
    A Latin phrase that has come to mean attacking one's opponent, as opposed to attacking their arguments.

Ad nauseam
    This argument approach uses tireless repetition of an idea. An idea, especially a simple slogan, that is repeated enough times, may begin to be taken as the truth. This approach works best when media sources are limited or controlled by the propagator.

Appeal to authority
    Appeals to authority cite prominent figures to support a position, idea, argument, or course of action.

Appeal to fear
    Appeals to fear and seeks to build support by instilling anxieties and panic in the general population, for example, Joseph Goebbels exploited Theodore Kaufman's Germany Must Perish! to claim that the Allies sought the extermination of the German people.

Appeal to prejudice
    Using loaded or emotive terms to attach value or moral goodness to believing the proposition. Used in biased or misleading ways.

Bandwagon
    Bandwagon and "inevitable-victory" appeals attempt to persuade the target audience to join in and take the course of action that "everyone else is taking".

Inevitable victory
    Invites those not already on the bandwagon to join those already on the road to certain victory. Those already or at least partially on the bandwagon are reassured that staying aboard is their best course of action.

Join the crowd
    This technique reinforces people's natural desire to be on the winning side. This technique is used to convince the audience that a program is an expression of an irresistible mass movement and that it is in their best interest to join.

Beautiful people
    The type of propaganda that deals with famous people or depicts attractive, happy people. This makes other people think that if they buy a product or follow a certain ideology, they too will be happy or successful.

Big Lie
    The repeated articulation of a complex of events that justify subsequent action. The descriptions of these events have elements of truth, and the "big lie" generalizations merge and eventually supplant the public's accurate perception of the underlying events. After World War I the German Stab in the back explanation of the cause of their defeat became a justification for Nazi re-militarization and revanchist aggression.

Black-and-white fallacy
    Presenting only two choices, with the product or idea being propagated as the better choice. For example: "You're either with us, or against us...."

Classical conditioning
    All vertebrates, including humans, respond to classical conditioning. That is, if object A is always present when object B is present and object B causes a negative physical reaction (e.g., disgust, pleasure) then we will when presented with object A when object B is not present, we will experience the same feelings.

Cognitive dissonance
    People desire to be consistent. Suppose a pollster finds that a certain group of people hates his candidate for senator but love actor A. They use actor A's endorsement of their candidate to change people's minds because people cannot tolerate inconsistency. They are forced to either to dislike the actor or like the candidate.

Common man
    The "plain folks" or "common man" approach attempts to convince the audience that the propagandist's positions reflect the common sense of the people. It is designed to win the confidence of the audience by communicating in the common manner and style of the target audience. Propagandists use ordinary language and mannerisms (and clothe their message in face-to-face and audiovisual communications) in attempting to identify their point of view with that of the average person. For example, a propaganda leaflet may make an argument on a macroeconomic issue, such as unemployment insurance benefits, using everyday terms: "Given that the country has little money during this recession, we should stop paying unemployment benefits to those who do not work, because that is like maxing out all your credit cards during a tight period, when you should be tightening your belt."

Cult of personality
    A cult of personality arises when an individual uses mass media to create an idealized and heroic public image, often through unquestioning flattery and praise. The hero personality then advocates the positions that the propagandist desires to promote. For example, modern propagandists hire popular personalities to promote their ideas and/or products.

Demonizing the enemy
    Making individuals from the opposing nation, from a different ethnic group, or those who support the opposing viewpoint appear to be subhuman (e.g., the Vietnam War-era term "gooks" for National Front for the Liberation of South Vietnam aka Vietcong, or "VC", soldiers), worthless, or immoral, through suggestion or false accusations. Dehumanizing is also a termed used synonymously with demonizing, the latter usually serves as an aspect of the former.

Dictat
    This technique hopes to simplify the decision making process by using images and words to tell the audience exactly what actions to take, eliminating any other possible choices. Authority figures can be used to give the order, overlapping it with the Appeal to authority technique, but not necessarily. The Uncle Sam "I want you" image is an example of this technique.

Disinformation
    The creation or deletion of information from public records, in the purpose of making a false record of an event or the actions of a person or organization, including outright forgery of photographs, motion pictures, broadcasts, and sound recordings as well as printed documents.

Door-in-the-face technique
    Is used to increase a person's latitude of acceptance. For example, if a salesperson wants to sell an item for $100 but the public is only willing to pay $50, the salesperson first offers the item at a higher price (e.g., $200) and subsequently reduces the price to $100 to make it seem like a good deal.

Euphoria
    The use of an event that generates euphoria or happiness, or using an appealing event to boost morale. Euphoria can be created by declaring a holiday, making luxury items available, or mounting a military parade with marching bands and patriotic messages.

Fear, uncertainty and doubt
    An attempt to influence public perception by disseminating negative and dubious/false information designed to undermine the credibility of their beliefs.

Flag-waving
    An attempt to justify an action on the grounds that doing so will make one more patriotic, or in some way benefit a country, group or idea the targeted audience supports.

Foot-in-the-door technique
    Often used by recruiters and salesmen. For example, a member of the opposite sex walks up to the victim and pins a flower or gives a small gift to the victim. The victim says thanks and now they have incurred a psychological debt to the perpetrator. The person eventually asks for a larger favor (e.g., a donation or to buy something far more expensive). The unwritten social contract between the victim and perpetrator causes the victim to feel obligated to reciprocate by agreeing to do the larger favor or buy the more expensive gift.

Glittering generalities
    Glittering generalities are emotionally appealing words that are applied to a product or idea, but present no concrete argument or analysis. A famous example is the campaign slogan "Ford has a better idea!" This technique has also been referred to as the PT Barnum effect.

Half-truth
    A half-truth is a deceptive statement, which may come in several forms and includes some element of truth. The statement might be partly true, the statement may be totally true but only part of the whole truth, or it may utilize some deceptive element, such as improper punctuation, or double meaning, especially if the intent is to deceive, evade, blame or misrepresent the truth.

Labeling
    A euphemism is used when the propagandist attempts to increase the perceived quality, credibility, or credence of a particular ideal. A Dysphemism is used when the intent of the propagandist is to discredit, diminish the perceived quality, or hurt the perceived righteousness of the Mark. By creating a "label" or "category" or "faction" of a population, it is much easier to make an example of these larger bodies, because they can uplift or defame the Mark without actually incurring legal-defamation. Example: "Liberal" is a dysphemism intended to diminish the perceived credibility of a particular Mark. By taking a displeasing argument presented by a Mark, the propagandist can quote that person, and then attack "liberals" in an attempt to both (1) create a political battle-ax of unaccountable aggression and (2) diminish the quality of the Mark. If the propagandist uses the label on too-many perceivably credible individuals, muddying up the word can be done by broadcasting bad-examples of "liberals" into the media. Labeling can be thought of as a sub-set of Guilt by association, another logical fallacy.

Latitudes of acceptance
    If a person's message is outside the bounds of acceptance for an individual and group, most techniques will engender psychological reactance (simply hearing the argument will make the message even less acceptable). There are two techniques for increasing the bounds of acceptance. First, one can take a more even extreme position that will make more moderate positions seem more acceptable. This is similar to the Door-in-the-Face technique. Alternatively, one can moderate one's own position to the edge of the latitude of acceptance and then over time slowly move to the position that was previously.[9]

Love bombing
    Used to recruit members to a cult or ideology by having a group of individuals cut off a person from their existing social support and replace it entirely with members of the group who deliberately bombard the person with affection in an attempt to isolate the person from their prior beliefs and value system—see Milieu control.

Lying and deception
    Lying and deception can be the basis of many propaganda techniques including Ad Homimen arguments, Big-Lie, Defamation, Door-in-the-Face, Half-truth, Name-calling or any other technique that is based on dishonesty or deception. For example, many politicians have been found to frequently stretch or break the truth.

Managing the news
    According to Adolf Hitler's propaganda minister Joseph Goebbels "The most brilliant propagandist technique will yield no success unless one fundamental principle is borne in mind constantly - it must confine itself to a few points and repeat them over and over."[10] This idea is consistent with the principle of classical conditioning as well as the idea of "Staying on Message."

Milieu control
    An attempt to control the social environment and ideas through the use of social pressure

Name-calling
    Propagandists use the name-calling technique to incite fears and arouse prejudices in their hearers in the intent that the bad names will cause hearers to construct a negative opinion about a group or set of beliefs or ideas that the propagandist wants hearers to denounce. The method is intended to provoke conclusions about a matter apart from impartial examinations of facts. Name-calling is thus a substitute for rational, fact-based arguments against the an idea or belief on its own merits.[11]

Obfuscation, intentional vagueness, confusion
    Generalities are deliberately vague so that the audience may supply its own interpretations. The intention is to move the audience by use of undefined phrases, without analyzing their validity or attempting to determine their reasonableness or application. The intent is to cause people to draw their own interpretations rather than simply being presented with an explicit idea. In trying to "figure out" the propaganda, the audience forgoes judgment of the ideas presented. Their validity, reasonableness and application may still be considered.

Obtain disapproval or Reductio ad Hitlerum
    This technique is used to persuade a target audience to disapprove of an action or idea by suggesting that the idea is popular with groups hated, feared, or held in contempt by the target audience. Thus if a group that supports a certain policy is led to believe that undesirable, subversive, or contemptible people support the same policy, then the members of the group may decide to change their original position. This is a form of bad logic, where a is said to include X, and b is said to include X, therefore, a = b.

Operant conditioning
    Operant conditioning involves learning through imitation. For example, watching an appealing person buy products or endorse positions teaches a person to buy the product or endorse the position. Operant conditioning is the underlying principle behind the Ad Nauseam, Slogan and other repetition public relations campaigns.

Oversimplification
    Favorable generalities are used to provide simple answers to complex social, political, economic, or military problems.

Pensée unique
    Enforced reduction of discussion by use of overly simplistic phrases or arguments (e.g., "There is no alternative to war.")

Quotes out of context
    Selectively editing quotes to change meanings—political documentaries designed to discredit an opponent or an opposing political viewpoint often make use of this technique.

Rationalization (making excuses)
    Individuals or groups may use favorable generalities to rationalize questionable acts or beliefs. Vague and pleasant phrases are often used to justify such actions or beliefs.

Red herring
    Presenting data or issues that, while compelling, are irrelevant to the argument at hand, and then claiming that it validates the argument.

Repetition
    This is the repeating of a certain symbol or slogan so that the audience remembers it. This could be in the form of a jingle or an image placed on nearly everything in the picture/scene.

Scapegoating
    Assigning blame to an individual or group, thus alleviating feelings of guilt from responsible parties and/or distracting attention from the need to fix the problem for which blame is being assigned.

Slogans
    A slogan is a brief, striking phrase that may include labeling and stereotyping. Although slogans may be enlisted to support reasoned ideas, in practice they tend to act only as emotional appeals. Opponents of the US's invasion and occupation of Iraq use the slogan "blood for oil" to suggest that the invasion and its human losses was done to access Iraq's oil riches. On the other hand, supporters who argue that the US should continue to fight in Iraq use the slogan "cut and run" to suggest withdrawal is cowardly or weak.

Stereotyping
    This technique attempts to arouse prejudices in an audience by labeling the object of the propaganda campaign as something the target audience fears, hates, loathes, or finds undesirable. For instance, reporting on a foreign country or social group may focus on the stereotypical traits that the reader expects, even though they are far from being representative of the whole country or group; such reporting often focuses on the anecdotal. In graphic propaganda, including war posters, this might include portraying enemies with stereotyped racial features.

Straw man
    A straw man argument is an informal fallacy based on misrepresentation of an opponent's position. To "attack a straw man" is to create the illusion of having refuted a proposition by substituting a superficially similar proposition (the "straw man"), and refuting it, without ever having actually refuted the original position.

Testimonial
    Testimonials are quotations, in or out of context, especially cited to support or reject a given policy, action, program, or personality. The reputation or the role (expert, respected public figure, etc.) of the individual giving the statement is exploited. The testimonial places the official sanction of a respected person or authority on a propaganda message. This is done in an effort to cause the target audience to identify itself with the authority or to accept the authority's opinions and beliefs as its own.

Third party technique
    Works on the principle that people are more willing to accept an argument from a seemingly independent source of information than from someone with a stake in the outcome. It is a marketing strategy commonly employed by Public Relations (PR) firms, that involves placing a premeditated message in the "mouth of the media." Third party technique can take many forms, ranging from the hiring of journalists to report the organization in a favorable light, to using scientists within the organization to present their perhaps prejudicial findings to the public. Frequently astroturf groups or front groups are used to deliver the message.

Thought-terminating cliché
    A commonly used phrase, sometimes passing as folk wisdom, used to quell cognitive dissonance.

Transfer
    Also known as association, this is a technique that involves projecting the positive or negative qualities of one person, entity, object, or value onto another to make the second more acceptable or to discredit it. It evokes an emotional response, which stimulates the target to identify with recognized authorities. Often highly visual, this technique often utilizes symbols (e.g. swastikas) superimposed over other visual images (e.g. logos). These symbols may be used in place of words.

Unstated assumption
    This technique is used when the idea the propagandist wants to plant would seem less credible if explicitly stated. The concept is instead repeatedly assumed or implied.

Virtue words
    These are words in the value system of the target audience that produce a positive image when attached to a person or issue. Peace, happiness, security, wise leadership, freedom, "The Truth", etc. are virtue words. Many see religiosity as a virtue, making associations to this quality affectively beneficial. Their use is considered of the Transfer propaganda technique.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: goozih on December 20, 2010, 01:01:08 pm
lets all create a you tube video saying "i'm LITTLE GRAND MOTHER"... "NO I'M LITTLE GRANDMOTHER"...
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: goozih on December 20, 2010, 01:22:44 pm
Actually I am going to make a video and say " Kiesha Crowther is pretending to be a native american shaman of the Sioux Salish tribe... I am an American Indian pretending to be Kiesha Crowther" ;)
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Smart Mule on December 20, 2010, 02:20:13 pm
I recieved a pm from Ashla this morning.  Due to personal circumstance she will not be able to actively participate for the time being.

Ashla - Thank you so much for your imput in this issue.  It's been very much appreciated.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Freija on December 20, 2010, 02:57:05 pm
Actually I am going to make a video and say " Kiesha Crowther is pretending to be a native american shaman of the Sioux Salish tribe... I am an American Indian pretending to be Kiesha Crowther" ;)

 ;D  ;D

I might make a video (leaning against a runestone) saying I´m THE spokesperson for ALL shamans from ALL over the world. Not just North America.... I mean, c´mon!!

What if we all did that? 100 of us claiming that title   ;D ;D
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Smart Mule on December 20, 2010, 03:16:16 pm
Kiesha the ecofriendly crystal promoting shame-on approves of the following -
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Twinkie_Slayer on December 20, 2010, 03:57:57 pm
Yup, that's a real good way to heal the earth....
 >:(

Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Freija on December 20, 2010, 04:13:50 pm
Great photos, Sky! Thank you for posting them!

As I love using stories and legends to enhance teachings, I came to think of the old legend "The Pied Piper of Hamelin", from the 13th Century. This very strange man turns up, dressed in multicolored clothing (Hollywood-style Native American clothing), promising everyone to remove the rats of Hamelin (to remove the evil, the dark ones, of the world). He does but is not satisfied with the payment (can´t get enough attention/money) so he comes back with his magic Pipe (mesmarizing messages), hypnotizing all the children of the town to follow him. He leads them away, never to return again....(blind and deaf for warnings and criticism).

How appropriate (and scary) that "both of them" are handling a Pipe.  :-\
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Saga on December 20, 2010, 04:36:40 pm
Quote
I might make a video (leaning against a runestone) saying I´m THE spokesperson for ALL shamans from ALL over the world. Not just North America.... I mean, c´mon!!

What if we all did that? 100 of us claiming that title 

Well, I think that the first 12 get away with it as the other young wisdom keepers. :p

Quote
As I love using stories and legends to enhance teachings, I came to think of the old legend "The Pied Piper of Hamelin", from the 13th Century. This very strange man turns up, dressed in multicolored clothing (Hollywood-style Native American clothing), promising everyone to remove the rats of Hamelin (to remove the evil, the dark ones, of the world). He does but is not satisfied with the payment (can´t get enough attention/money) so he comes back with his magic Pipe (mesmarizing messages), hypnotizing all the children of the town to follow him. He leads them away, never to return again....(blind and deaf for warnings and criticism).

In my wild imagination, I have had many similar thoughts, how much wrong you can actually do with that kind of power over people... I am trying to keep myself from not doing it over to that side either and keep in the facts mostly. It is scary thought in any case.

And about the crystal mining, there are those kind of books that talk about earth imbalances because of human activity like taking the minerals and oil and crystals out of there and all... If wanting to create huge conspiracy theory, something like causing the strip mining of the rest of the "shield" and energy store of earth would be quite a great thing from dark ones. :p I think that most of the "bad" people are able to be very charming too when it suits for them. :p (talking about keeping in the facts, lol... Sorry. :p)
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Spandex~Atom on December 20, 2010, 04:57:56 pm
Quote
I might make a video (leaning against a runestone) saying I´m THE spokesperson for ALL shamans from ALL over the world. Not just North America.... I mean, c´mon!!

What if we all did that? 100 of us claiming that title 

lol, a wisdomkeeper has to choose their words wisely.

apparently, if kiesha fesses up, there are another 11 hiding in the shadows  to replace her.....
(according to her 'misinformation' response page)

Quote
As I love using stories and legends to enhance teachings, I came to think of the old legend "The Pied Piper of Hamelin", from the 13th Century. .........

I love this poem. Kieshas followers would be better off getting 'enlightened' with the wisdom in it.
A similar image came to my mind when I realised she was fake. The 'Child-Catcher' from Chitty Chitty Bang Bang. My feelings were more about the ones behind her 'throne'.

I think that most of the "bad" people are able to be very charming too when it suits for them. :p (talking about keeping in the facts, lol... Sorry. :p)

and most loving people have a bit of monster in them too....somewhere, and can be very viscious when they want to, like when their beloved leader is challenged.

Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: educatedindian on December 20, 2010, 05:05:57 pm
Crowther's assistant and longtime friend Jennifer sent a message to one of the members here. In it, Jennifer makes some new claims:

Supposedly they now admit Crowther was NOT recognized by either Salish nor "Sioux" councils of elders. Jennifer in fact admits that Salish elders specifically do NOT recognize Crowther.

However, she also claims that Crowther was recognized as a "shaman" by a single Salish elder named Falling Feathers who, conveniently for their story, has recently passed away.

Jennifer goes on to smear the Salish elders as being motivated by politics, but is very vague as to how or why, though she implies they are being racist because she's fairskinned.

(Oh no, those poor white people being persecuted by evil NDNs! ::))

Jennifer also claims there is a woman Salish elder who they absolutely refuse to name who also recognizes Crowther.

They also absolutely refuse to name who Crowther's mother is, though they claim she is "half blood Sioux and Salish." They also claim Crowther has relatives on the Flathead reservation.

To say that Jennifer's claims are confused is putting it mildly. She refers throughout her message to the "governor" of the tribe and the "Confederated Sioux and Salish". Neither of those exist.

At one point in the message, she claims that Falling Feathers was an elder, at another point a member of the "governing council", at another point she admits she doesn't know what he was. (Theh why the heck should anyone listen to what FF had to say? He could simply have been a confused elderly man.)

I've looked at the Flathead site and see no mention of a council member recently passing.

Finally, Jennifer repeats the claim that Perez, the Mayanist Nuager, recognized her as a shaman through a translator. No mention of where this supposedly happened, or why a supposed Mayanist (not Mayan, see the thread on him) was doing at either the Flathead rez or Crowther's hometown of Sanford Colorado.

If you look at the mentions of Perez elsewhere at nafps, you'll see Perez specifically mocks those who believe in the 2012 hoax.

Myself, I wonder if the repeated changes in their stories are just to avoid lawsuits, or to give their followers a shred to cling to when the lies become too obvious.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Saga on December 20, 2010, 05:17:51 pm
Quote
and most loving people have a bit of monster in them too....somewhere, and can be very viscious when they want to, like when their beloved leader is challenged.

True. Every person has bit of both. :) I usually get vicious when I smell the injustice or people or other living things getting hurt by something. Trying to keep myself on the ground as much as I can tho. :p

And the claims seem to get weirder and weirder... when just a name or two would do.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: critter - a white non-ndn person on December 20, 2010, 06:53:48 pm
Crowther's assistant and longtime friend Jennifer sent a message to one of the members here. In it, Jennifer makes some new claims:

Supposedly they now admit Crowther was NOT recognized by either Salish nor "Sioux" councils of elders. Jennifer in fact admits that Salish elders specifically do NOT recognize Crowther.



Hah!  So.. now they re-beef the story claiming Mayan, I supposed they'll drag the Buddhists and whoever
else they think they can lay claim to. 

Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Spandex~Atom on December 20, 2010, 06:58:19 pm
Myself, I wonder if the repeated changes in their stories are just to avoid lawsuits, or to give their followers a shred to cling to when the lies become too obvious.

From the reaction of her followers, I would be surprised if it made much difference to their belief in her if she actually made a public statement withdrawing her belief that she was genuinely made a Shaman by anyone.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Peasant on December 20, 2010, 07:52:37 pm
Finally, Jennifer repeats the claim that Perez, the Mayanist Nuager, recognized her as a shaman through a translator. No mention of where this supposedly happened, or why a supposed Mayanist (not Mayan, see the thread on him) was doing at either the Flathead rez or Crowther's hometown of Sanford Colorado.

If you look at the mentions of Perez elsewhere at nafps, you'll see Perez specifically mocks those who believe in the 2012 hoax.

I think he has also participated in one of the events which Crowther attended too, called 'Return of the ancestors' if i'm correct. As he seems to be New Age oriented, idk, it could be that he supported her for the audience there. I don't know how much to believe of him, but yes he denounced the 2012 hoax several times recently.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: SAMy on December 20, 2010, 09:01:22 pm
Crowther's assistant and longtime friend Jennifer sent a message to one of the members here. In it, Jennifer makes some new claims:

Supposedly they now admit Crowther was NOT recognized by either Salish nor "Sioux" councils of elders. Jennifer in fact admits that Salish elders specifically do NOT recognize Crowther.



Hah!  So.. now they re-beef the story claiming Mayan, I supposed they'll drag the Buddhists and whoever
else they think they can lay claim to. 



Well, if you are not rooted by either 1) being called by Spirit (not on the phone) and/or 2) being part of you community that has the traditions you are dressing yourself up as, then you are just waving in the breeze.  Make up whatever story to get folks to keep their minds closed and just keep listening to all the nice heart-centered nonsense.

For anyone who thinks the Bible is a good reference, whenever you hear someone say we don't need the mind, we just need to live in the heart (that's such a common cult warning flag) then maybe pickup that old book and read this to realize that the heart and the mind need each other, both of them can be untrustworthy:

Jeremiah 17:9-11

9 - The heart is more deceitful than all else And is desperately sick; Who can understand it?
10 - I, the Lord, search the heart, I test the mind, Even to give to each man according to his ways, According to the results of his deeds.
11 - As a partridge that hatches eggs which it has not laid, So is he who makes a fortune, but unjustly; In the midst of his days it will forsake him, And in the end he will be a fool.

That last sentence is precious. 

Don't be caught up by someone who claims to know exactly how every single person ought to live.  We are all UNIQUE creations.  If you are looking outside of yourself for that leader to help flip us to the golden age, then you are headed for trouble BIG TIME.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Defend the Sacred on December 20, 2010, 09:02:30 pm
Crowther's assistant and longtime friend Jennifer sent a message to one of the members here. In it, Jennifer makes some new claims:

Supposedly they now admit Crowther was NOT recognized by either Salish nor "Sioux" councils of elders. Jennifer in fact admits that Salish elders specifically do NOT recognize Crowther.

Hah!  So.. now they re-beef the story claiming Mayan, I supposed they'll drag the Buddhists and whoever else they think they can lay claim to. 

Crowther has already failed with the Buddhists:

I've sent a message through her site's contact form:

Quote
In a statement on this website, it is said that Kiesha Crowther was recognized as a shaman by "the lamas of Nepal and Tibet". Is it possible to let me know who these lamas would be? I might know some of them personally, and lineage is of the utmost important in the vajrayana tradition, so it would be a great help and a great gift to know who these teachers are. Thank you so much

Well, I received word that she has been "recognized as a shaman" by Lakha Lama. She claims he was, or is, from the village of Makram, in Tibet, however, Lakaha Lama has been living in Sweden since 1976, according by his Facebook page. And this may be hs ow she knows is, as she has been in Sweden giving teachings in the course of this year. I've written to the person who admins his group on Facebook, to confirm to me that Lama has, indeed, recognized her in some way, as a Shaman.

....Lakaha Lama has, indeed, recognized her in some way, as a Shaman.

Can you explain what that means, exactly? That she was trained, has abilities, what exactly? Esp since she's not Tibetan herself. And the stranger part is, why would a Tibetan lama's endorsement have anything to do with an alleged "Salish Sioux"? I doubt the Lama would think much of a Lakota medicine man "recognizing" someone as a lama.

I have exchanged a number of emails with Kiesha Crowther, especially focusing on this point: the "recognition" as shaman.

It turns out she has spoken with Lakha Lama briefly, while in Sweden. And of course he said kind things to her, which is how Lamas are. If you ask for a blessing you'll receive it. This in no way means "recognition", and in general, a Tibetan Lama would never "recognize" a shaman.
I've pointed out to Crowther that she willfully confuses people with her use of the word "recognition", as that is - in Tibetan usage - reserved for recognition as a "tulku" ie a teacher who influences his or her own rebirth in order to continue the link with students and the lineage.

I am sure (but I have yet to receive confirmation from Lakha Lama to whom I've written) that there is no endorsement here, only kind words and a blessing like anyone may receive from a compassionate teacher.

However, in her communication with me, Crowther first claims that she does not take teachings from Tibetan Lamas, then goes on to say that they are somehow connected with the council of indigenous elders. But apart from Lakha Lama, whom she names, she doesn't give any names, so I doubt the existence of these teachers in connection with her.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Defend the Sacred on December 20, 2010, 09:13:27 pm
So we see that, once again, Crowther passes off brief meetings as being "taught" or "recognized" by various people.

This is very common in newage circles, or was when I had my brush with them in the eighties. Rootless newagers will go to one ceremony or ritual, or even just a lecture with someone, then claim that person was their teacher. If they go to a ceremony that has any sort of cleansing or rebirth motif, they will also then claim they were "initiated" by the ritual leader.

Some people have found that a simple conversation with one of these seekers will end up with being called that seeker's "teacher". Some of the newagers mean it as a sign of respect, and don't know it's wrong to presume that sort of connection. But others exploit any meeting to try and give themselves credibility and backing they do not have.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Freija on December 20, 2010, 09:27:12 pm
Funny that she is not recognized as a shaman by the Samis.  ;)
Being in Sweden and all....after all, she meets a LAMA in Sweden who recognizes her!

I wonder if she just forgot they exist or if she realized exactly how upset the Samis would have been if she had gone along with it. LOL
Have to tell you about my Sami friend who went to a party, saw this non-Sami woman dressed up in a Sami outfit (which was a man´s outfit, by the way) and just went up and ripped the clothes off her. Proud to be her friend! LOL
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Defend the Sacred on December 20, 2010, 09:31:12 pm
Well, if you are not rooted by either 1) being called by Spirit (not on the phone) and/or 2) being part of you community that has the traditions you are dressing yourself up as, then you are just waving in the breeze.

I don't want to take this into a tangent, and we've already had a few tangents in this thread, but I need to respond to this. I don't think it's appropriate to say "either" in this matter. Every day we see crazy people who have no training, no community, no elders nor the checks and balances of knowledgeable peers, claiming they can be spiritual leaders because "Spirit" "called" them.

It's up to traditional spiritual communities to say what criteria it takes to be a a spiritual leader in that community. Standards and requirements vary among tribes and cultures. But if someone is claiming to do anything that practices, or dabbles in, or takes "inspiration" from traditional cultures (as Crowther has claimed) they absolutely cannot claim they have a right to any of these things because "Spirit called them".

Every day we see those people harming the traditions and harming the seekers who follow them.

The people we see who are unhinged from any traditional community, who are out there saying "Spirit called them" are (in my experience and without exception I can think of at the moment) delusional. Traditional communities, traditional ways of life, have time-honoured ways of weeding out the gradiose and fantasy-prone from those who have real connections to the spirits. In my opinion, the purpose of this board is to support the traditional communities who have these ways, and keep crazy and entitled outsiders from exploiting their traditions and harming people with their schemes.

I think if someone who feels rootless and without community feels "called by Spirit" to be some sort of leader or spokesman, they need to seek out a legitimate, grounded, community. Then they need to shut up for a few decades. If after decades of learning and humility and being a normal person of that community, the community leaders and elders ask them to take a leadership role, then they can.

Crowther has obviously done nothing of the sort.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: critter - a white non-ndn person on December 20, 2010, 10:47:39 pm
yeh, I saw that before on the Buddhists, but didn't think KC took it serious, really, as she stands saying she is leader of all ..

not wanting to tangent either here, but i believe there are spiritual people and spiritual leaders without traditional communities, but who also do not act like nimkumpoops and make false claims. i believe this because there are many people
without communities like there used to be.. and I believe Spirit provides to them as well.. just you won't find them on the internet or at seminars or workshops either.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Defend the Sacred on December 20, 2010, 10:53:36 pm
"You don't stand a chance
Against my prayer
You don't stand a chance
Against my love"

Excellent video in response to Crowther's lies:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=juoD2CdHBAM&feature=player_embedded
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: flyaway on December 21, 2010, 01:40:11 am
I have been researching this "little Grandmother" and I have to say the video   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=juoD2CdHBAM&feature=player_embedded  that was also posted in the revious post needs to be spread far and wide. As First People it is time we join hands and together fight these frauds! :-[
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: SAMy on December 21, 2010, 02:14:43 am
(Oh no, those poor white people being persecuted by evil NDNs! ::))
Good one.

And for folks coming in off the Internet, youtube, etc. should know that MANY different kinds, creeds, and colors of folks ALL OVER THE EARTH have significant concerns with LG.

It's not just the hooey around 'At age 30 I was called (ring ring) to be THE Shaman of the Sioux and Salish Tribes', it's nearly every aspect of her message, misrepresentation of 'facts' (using 30% of our brain), very odd statements at times,  and trying to use the Native American persona all the while claiming she does not teach anything Native American.  (Well, from listening to her that is pretty clear IF YOU KNOW SOMETHING ABOUT NDN ways, most folks won't know the difference and it's not really in LG's interest to be specific on that one, attracts more half-minded folk.)  But the fact is she is prancing around like an Indian Princess holdin them magic crystals way up high because only she can save Mother Earth.  It is really weird and going cult-side fast.

Do not turn off your mind and just 'live from your heart'.  Folks build up cults saying that line all the time.  If anything, let the mind and heart be in balance.  You wouldn't have it if you weren't supposed to use it.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Spandex~Atom on December 21, 2010, 02:33:19 am
(http://i1115.photobucket.com/albums/k558/SpandexAtom/falseprophet2-1.png)


We allready have someone trying to rationalise the absence of her prophecies:

"Kiesha gave this message at the vernal solstice. She may not have been speaking of the calendar year 2010.?"
comment to this vid:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gU_k-COiSzo

 ???  ::)

Official Statement from Salish Elders Regarding Kiesha Crowther
(click on link above this quote box to read in full)   
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: SAMy on December 21, 2010, 02:51:03 am
I don't think it's appropriate to say "either" in this matter. Every day we see crazy people who have no training, no community, no elders nor the checks and balances of knowledgeable peers, claiming they can be spiritual leaders because "Spirit" "called" them.
Agreed, thank you for straightening that one out 4me.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Cat on December 21, 2010, 02:54:26 am
http://www.greatmystery.org/events/egypt0411.html

April 5-17, 2011
THE PROPHET'S CONFERENCE

EGYPT with Little Grandmother

Accompanying Little Grandmother will be the expert guide Mohammed Fayed of Guardian Travel and his team of excellent Egyptologists who have worked for many years with expeditions for the Edgar Cayce Association of Research and Enlightenment. They have also been the personal guides for Elizabeth Taylor, Princess Diana, The Grateful Dead, Shirley MacLaine, Ken Kesey, Leo Buscaglia, amongst many other dignitaries and celebrities.

http://www.greatmystery.org/events/egypt0411register.html

Click HERE TO LEARN MORE LOCATION, TRAVEL, SCHEDULE, and COSTS/REGISTER links for additional information about this very special journey.

COSTS
$5,965 with airfare from JFK to Cairo or $5,025 without airfare
Prices are based on double occupancy. If you prefer a single room the cost for a single supplement is $940.
To upgrade to business class on Egypt Air, contact us for costs.
A 3% processing fee is added to credit card payments to cover the costs for that service.
 
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Cat on December 21, 2010, 03:10:37 am
Also on Facebook
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Tribe-of-Many-Colors/182675585080227?v=wall
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: SAMy on December 21, 2010, 03:14:38 am
$5,965 with airfare from JFK to Cairo or $5,025 without airfare

This is really sounding like a good money making business.  Wow.  What does a shaman do in Egypt?
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Cat on December 21, 2010, 03:23:19 am
Has anyone read this yet?? WOW!

http://www.tribeofmanycolors.net/transcripts/interview-by-brent-raynes.html
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Spandex~Atom on December 21, 2010, 03:28:47 am
$5,965 with airfare from JFK to Cairo or $5,025 without airfare

This is really sounding like a good money making business.  Wow.  What does a shaman do in Egypt?

Something like this:
NO sound was heard in the burial chamber of the Great Pyramid as a tall, slender woman lay down in the pharaoh’s pitted granite sarcophagus, her flowing silver hair spreading beneath her. Her dozen or so companions in the dank room lifted their arms, palms upward, eyes closed in meditation.
As was prescribed in the training of priests in pharaonic Egypt, the woman had said, each member of the group had taken a turn in the sarcophagus; now she, their spiritual leader, occupied the space. Suddenly, her lips quivered, and a guttural moan escaped them, bouncing off the smooth stone walls and ceiling like an angry pinball. She climbed out of the sarcophagus, her face creased with determination, and formed the group into a circle, sitting cross-legged. In a deep voice, she read from the Emerald Tablets of Thoth, which she believes were translated from the ancient tongue of Atlantis......
Ms. Billger had everyone lie down. “When ye have released the self from the body, rise to the outermost bounds of your earth-plane,” she intoned, “and speak ye the word Dor-E-Lil-La.”
“Dor-E-Lil-La,” the bodies replied.
This was not a cult; the participants had met only two days before. They were in Egypt on a package tour......

Maybe she will wear the flowing blue dress of an Atlantean High Priestess!
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Spandex~Atom on December 21, 2010, 03:44:23 am
Has anyone read this yet?? WOW!

http://www.tribeofmanycolors.net/transcripts/interview-by-brent-raynes.html

Here:

That link has her saying she talks to beings in UFOs, believes in crop circles, and has seen lights from UFOs on a regular basis all her life. She also mentions growing up in a mostly Mormon community. The Mormons have quite a lot of strange roles for NDNs in their prophecies, and an obsession if they somehow can covert many or most NDNs somehow their version of the End Times happens. That, combined with someone whose been seeing visual hallucinations all her life, makes for a convincing explanation in her mind I think.

Some things on that site made me shake my head...

"....this first day of ceremony the heavens truly opened and a these pillars of light I had been seeing for some time began to grow outwardly... until soon they were one large pillar. Many people felt when it happened-- there was a gasp or an intake of breath. There was no denying the presence of the ancestors around us or the massive amount of energy that was flowing from the heavens that day."

That could have come from any TV preacher or other imitator of the story of Moses on Mt Sinai.

And then her ego really gets going. Notice how she claims to direct literally hundreds of Native elders supposedly from all over.

" Most of the men in the circle had no idea what was about to happen and it was probably just as well, since some of them would have probably wanted to exit then and there! I did not envy the men in the circle as I asked them to please stand and join hands. My heart wept for them so deeply as I instructed them on what needed to be done and what was being asked of themÉ to go inward, as deep as they could within themselves and witness all of these atrocities, to witness the grief and pain of the feminine, to feel and release these negative energies, not just in their own lives but for those lives that had come before them throughout history. As I spoke my whole body shuddered as the gut-wrenching sorrow and pain started to build inside of me, as I asked these good-hearted men to do such a hard thing. I must say now that the men in this circle were the strongest and purest hearts I have ever met and I love them deeply. I assured them I did not place any blame on them as individuals and I swore to keep them safe and grounded to Mother Earth and Father Sky the entire time. As I spoke of what needed to happen I had all the woman gather in a larger circle around them "...

The idea that a fairhaired allegedly mixedblood 30 year old woman who'd been raised away from her alleged people all her life would actually command several hundred NDN elders, tell them what needed to be done and they are supposedly lost without her guidance and protection...I don't think I've ever seen or heard of anyone that arrogant, that self deluded, EVER.

Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Cat on December 21, 2010, 03:51:53 am
Thanks - 32 pages is a lot to remember...
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Spandex~Atom on December 21, 2010, 04:06:13 am
yw :-)

She needs to change this now:

Grandmother Lota told me that day that many many people knew that I was coming. Though this, it didn't make any sense to me at all. She said that she understood , as well as the other tribal members, that I had been being taught by the grandmother's past. And for the first time in my life, I knew I wasn't nuts. And everything made sense, in one phone call. They understood what I was being taught, they understood how I saw things. And she also spoke of a group of people that are here on the planet right now, receiving these same lessons. And so, all at once, I was not alone. And all at once, I wasn't crazy. And all at once I had a purpose. They called me to be  shaman for the Sioux and the Salish tribes and I have to say, at first I was terrified. What a huge responsibility. What huge commitment. And probably the scariest thing was,if I said yes, I would have to admit to, all of my weirdness, I would have then to share how I saw things, this was very scary for me. But here I am.
http://www.tribeofmanycolors.net/transcripts/video-return-of-the-ancestors-transcript.html
 

Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: SAMy on December 21, 2010, 04:08:36 am
Has anyone read this yet?? WOW!

http://www.tribeofmanycolors.net/transcripts/interview-by-brent-raynes.html

Well, nice words like these at the end...

"My goal in life is to simply stay true to what I know, be honest and as loving of a person to all walks of life as I can, and to serve, heal and teach others how to love and protect Mother Earth and Her creatures."

I really like the 'be honest' part.  Ya, I can see that all the time from her.  After all, she is THE Shaman of the Sioux and Salish tribes.  NOT!!!
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: SAMy on December 21, 2010, 04:15:02 am
Wow, not sure if you have looked at the current definition of Plastic Shaman on wikipedia:

Plastic shaman is a pejorative colloquialism applied to individuals who are attempting to pass themselves off as shamans, holy people, or other traditional spiritual leaders, but who have no genuine connection to the traditions or cultures they claim to represent. In some cases, the "plastic shaman" may have some genuine cultural connection, but is seen to be exploiting that knowledge for ego, power or money.

Plastic shamans are believed by their critics to use the mystique of these cultural traditions, and the legitimate curiosity of sincere seekers, for personal gain. In some cases, exploitation of students and traditional culture may involve:

-   The selling of fake "traditional" spiritual ceremonies
-   Fake artifacts
-   Fictional accounts in books
-   Illegitimate tours of sacred sites
-   And often the chance to buy spiritual titles.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Spandex~Atom on December 21, 2010, 04:18:21 am
LG followers say:

"There will always be those who refuse to acknowledge the prophet when they come. History repeats. Do you really want to be one off  these?"
(comment  from 3 weeks ago)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VocJYC-_u4M&NR=1

"There is another thread on the subject of Keisha, ( [link to www.godlikeproductions.com] who is recognized by her Sioux elders as a Wisdom Keeper. She is likely the White Buffalo Woman predicted to help her Tribe of Many Colours weather the upcoming shift from the fourth to the fifth world. Remember the sacred medicine wheel has all four races within balanced in harmony and this is the ideal we need to strive for."
(User ID: 1102723 11/16/2010 2:47 AM)
http://www.godlikeproductions.com/forum1/message1088572/pg2

"I'm feeling pulses of vibration through out my body while watching this video.. An incredibly Beautiful video <3"
(comment 1 month ago)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MG6LC_5hDXQ

 :o

"i LOVE YOU! How, how can I spread your word? I can carry a banner, put a bumper sticker on my car, tie myself to a tree and threat to set myself on fire...anything for mother earth, humanity and? you.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zCGwDMgW3dc"

Really? a bit scary, that is.

"I love Kiesha so, so, so, so,so, sooooooooo much! She is the icing on our spiritual cake!!"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FFPu26BJreY

 ::)

"Thank you Kiesha, that was awe-inspiring. By the end of the video I had tears streaming down my face, I had goose bumps. I need to watch this every day to remind me of who I am."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FFPu26BJreY

 :'(

"Woow! You really can feel that she is talking from her heart, to your heart. I feel a rush of Love after watching this. Wonderful! Two thumbs up!"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FFPu26BJreY

It's about that rush after all......

"a great teacher! it really doesnt matter if she is a "genuine" tribemember. the things she talks about is whats important. just listen to her words and see what your innerself thinks. dont be stucked in a "we" and ? "them" attitude. it means that you are.. stuck! the teachings from the natives are for the whole world. in this time we all have to work together, and not towards each other. may all beings be free"!!!! love love love"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yK5OOfEmut4

 >:(

what about the freedom of people to keep their traditions sacred and uncommercialised by wannabes?
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Spandex~Atom on December 21, 2010, 04:21:45 am
Plastic shamans are believed by their critics to use the mystique of these cultural traditions, and the legitimate curiosity of sincere seekers, for personal gain.

there is no 'belief' about it, lol.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: nemesis on December 21, 2010, 08:51:59 am
I don't want to take this into a tangent, and we've already had a few tangents in this thread, but I need to respond to this. I don't think it's appropriate to say "either" in this matter. Every day we see crazy people who have no training, no community, no elders nor the checks and balances of knowledgeable peers, claiming they can be spiritual leaders because "Spirit" "called" them.

It's up to traditional spiritual communities to say what criteria it takes to be a a spiritual leader in that community. Standards and requirements vary among tribes and cultures. But if someone is claiming to do anything that practices, or dabbles in, or takes "inspiration" from traditional cultures (as Crowther has claimed) they absolutely cannot claim they have a right to any of these things because "Spirit called them".

Every day we see those people harming the traditions and harming the seekers who follow them.

The people we see who are unhinged from any traditional community, who are out there saying "Spirit called them" are (in my experience and without exception I can think of at the moment) delusional. Traditional communities, traditional ways of life, have time-honoured ways of weeding out the gradiose and fantasy-prone from those who have real connections to the spirits. In my opinion, the purpose of this board is to support the traditional communities who have these ways, and keep crazy and entitled outsiders from exploiting their traditions and harming people with their schemes.

I think if someone who feels rootless and without community feels "called by Spirit" to be some sort of leader or spokesman, they need to seek out a legitimate, grounded, community. Then they need to shut up for a few decades. If after decades of learning and humility and being a normal person of that community, the community leaders and elders ask them to take a leadership role, then they can.

Crowther has obviously done nothing of the sort.


This is an important point.

Personally I would be more inclined to believe that a spirit had called them if they devoted their life to the service of their people, regardless of the costs to their own lives, which are often considerable.

None of these new age frauds seem to care at all about serving their people, or serving anyone at all.  The only thing they serve is their own egos and bank accounts. 

They devote their energy to creating a "brand" for themselves in which they are promoted as some kind of super-human being, complete with fancy websites, youtube channels and hundreds / thousands of people worshipping them, performing lots of unpaid work for them and filling their bank accounts with $$$$$$$$.

I doubt that Crowther knows the meaning of the words "humility" or "service".

On the subject of the videos, I absolutely love that last video.  Thanks for sharing it.  8)

 
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: nemesis on December 21, 2010, 08:58:09 am
LG followers say:

"I love Kiesha so, so, so, so,so, sooooooooo much! She is the icing on our spiritual cake!!"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FFPu26BJreY

 ::)



Icing on the cake is probably right.  Sweet, sickly, nutrition free and will make you very sick if you consume too much of it.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Saga on December 21, 2010, 09:10:07 am
LG followers say:

"a great teacher! it really doesnt matter if she is a "genuine" tribemember. the things she talks about is whats important. just listen to her words and see what your innerself thinks. dont be stucked in a "we" and ? "them" attitude. it means that you are.. stuck! the teachings from the natives are for the whole world. in this time we all have to work together, and not towards each other. may all beings be free"!!!! love love love"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yK5OOfEmut4

 >:(

what about the freedom of people to keep their traditions sacred and uncommercialised by wannabes?


Yes, we all need to work together... wait, all but natives themselves? The ones who own the key to saving the earth in all of your prophecies and teachings? They can be safely disrespected and left out, it doesn't really matter if they are against the half truths or no truths....... :p As long as we get the teachings, even if we have to steal or change them to suit us better and downgrade them...

Lately, when thinking about this all, I get the image of christian church in my mind, someone constantly pissing on the altar and throwing sacred "bread and wine" on the floor and people going "ooh... aah" in awe and cheering in tears.

Christian church since most of us have that background and it is what is teached to us to be sacred. I am not really following the church, but I still wouldn't disrespect even the sacred objects of christianity... Think you all got the point. :)
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: SAMy on December 21, 2010, 02:06:50 pm
I went to Kiesha Crowther's website and read her responses to people calling her out on her lies. And so this is the response that I have sent to her through her web site.

I'm sorry Kiesha. I grew up on the Flathead reserve. All of my family are scattered every where there. I have them from Arlee all the way to Polson, going east to west, and no one knows of you. I have spoken with tribal elders who have no idea who you are. At pow wow, I asked around to see if you were made a shaman over our reserve and our people. I had people laugh in my face.

This is something you'll not be able to clear up in a paragraph or two on your web site. The reason I and others have called you out as a fraud, is because you are stealing from sacred teachings and new age-ing it up. You are combining the ancient teachings with teachings about skulls and the I AM consciousness from the St. Germaine teachings which has nothing at all to do with our culture or beliefs. Worst of all, YOU ARE CHARGING people to teach them falsehoods. The ceremonies are not for sale. You are spitting on my people and the memory of my ancestors. Until I take my last breath on mother earth, I'll not stop speaking out against you until you cease from using my culture and making money off of us. You are lying to everyone. That is why you travel into other countries to give teachings. You go to these spiritually starved people who are dying for an indian experience and you are spoon feeding it to them with big doses of new age quackery. You are as dangerous as the man who ran the sweats in Arizona, the ones those people died in who were desperate for vision. There is NO ONE from the Flathead who has stood up to say YES Kiesha Crowther is shaman over us. You need to stop this, because it will catch up to you and you will have to face the elders here. You cannot keep running in other countries telling these lies. If you are being honest, then let us all see pictures of you with the elders who made you a shaman. You are dishonest and everyone sees this. If you were telling the truth you would have provided names, and proof and these people would stand up with you. Remember White Ego woman? Look her up  on youtube. This is what is going to happen to you. Your dynasty of lies and usury will be coming to an end because the people will start showing up at your teachings to tell the truth about you. Remember, OUR CEREMONIES are not for sale.


The final version of the youtube video for the above text is at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EbYKpzFfKdE

Thank you shadowfax1920 for posting your extremely EXCELLENT video that everyone who is interested in KC should watch.
http://www.youtube.com/user/shadowfax1920#p/a/u/0/juoD2CdHBAM
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: TRIBALMOONS@yahoo.com on December 21, 2010, 02:54:45 pm
Quote
We are the tribe. We are the Rainbow Children. We are the Tribe of Many Colors prophesied to come in the time of great change when the world would receive her blessings, and we the children of this planet would receive our enlightenment.


Rainbow Children?? Makes me wonder if her folks snorted or smoked too many of them desert plants during the hippie days. Either way, This woman sickens me just hearing her name. The Salish Kootenai, The Lakota, The Cherokee, any TRIBE should not have to defend themselves to this mixture of lunatics, wannabes and white people who say they have the power........The only power these people have is to try and destroy what we have had to fix because of them for 100's of years. I personally feel that tribes should bring charges against every last one of them. It is Ancestral Theft in the highest form, almost as much if not as much as as NDN grave robbers and those that do that are caught and persecuted.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Spandex~Atom on December 21, 2010, 03:02:22 pm
".... The woman were still holding onto their buried pain, suppressing it as we are all taught to do. But as I went from womb to womb the screams and the cries broke out, things started to surface in a huge wave of sorrow. All of the woman fell to the ground. Some lay on their bellies, some on their backs, many were in the fetal position as they wept, wailed and cried out.

Just as in the men's ceremony I witnessed the ancient ones "spirits" step into some of the women and then leave, as they took their turns being witnessed through the different woman lying on the ground.... "
http://www.tribeofmanycolors.net/transcripts/interview-by-brent-raynes.html

This is wrong on so many levels it baffles me why her followers can't see what is happening here and run a mile from anyone involved in this, especially if this actually happened and isn't just a tall tale to impress people.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Spandex~Atom on December 21, 2010, 07:45:30 pm
Picture request:
(http://i1115.photobucket.com/albums/k558/SpandexAtom/FRAUD-TEARS.jpg)
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: SAMy on December 21, 2010, 08:58:39 pm
Picture request:

Very good.   I think that tribe name must be 'The Tribe Of Many Dollars'.....
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Saga on December 22, 2010, 02:26:48 pm
I can "report" that some of us have been very active in facebook to get the videos and discussion out there and the warnings about kiesha are coming out even in the sources we haven't discussed here and spreading all over, today there's a link to blogtext that warns about her in one of the kiesha fanclub's facebook page and people are asking questions...

Ofcourse most of the reactions are the "listen to your heart" kind and "that is your truth", "it is your word against hers and I know which one I believe"...

I am still into process of writing the page in my own blog, want to add as much info as possible about the whole thing with her and over all exploitation and xmas is kind of distracting me from searching it. :p
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: taraverti on December 22, 2010, 04:04:55 pm
I've been trying to keep up with the latest videos and posting them to my facebook profile. None of my close friends or associates have the awareness of this issue or the passion to see it stopped that I do. But I have had one intense dialogue with a close friend who is often attracted to the New Age types, and have really opened her eyes. I continue to talk about these issues in general to people who really don't think about it one way or another. Hopefully some of it sticks, or at least gets them thinking.

I really cannot look at Kiesha's material except briefly. It makes me physically ill. So I'm no good at doing much direct analysis.

I'll keep doing what I can do.

Nona
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Superdog on December 22, 2010, 04:45:13 pm
In regards to Facebook, there are a number of "unofficial" Kiesha Crowther pages popping up. 


This one is a fan page run by a poster called "Chit Disturber" who links videos from NAFPS

http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=130471543655147#!/group.php?gid=130471543655147&v=wall


Another "unofficial" page admin'd by a guy named Steven O' Riordan in support of Kiesha and ironically is being attacked by Veetkam Rensch (the tribe of many colors admin...control freak, depends on your point of view) as being illegal...interesting set of comments on it including a very edited discussion of her being a fraud.

http://www.facebook.com/pages/Kiesha-Crowther-Little-Grandmother/166068650098821?v=wall#!/pages/Kiesha-Crowther-Little-Grandmother/166068650098821


Here's another with an advertisement for an event with Kiesha in Cave Creek, Arizona at a place called Casa Mariposa that happened in September...cost of attendance...$149

http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=124447410905984&index=1


The little grandmother community page where posters can post anything they like...even videos from NAFPS members...it also includes Youtube user Shadowfax's video. 

http://www.facebook.com/pages/little-grandmother/127529483949707?sk=wall#!/pages/little-grandmother/127529483949707?sk=wall


and of course the more "official" page...I say more because there's no evidence Crowther disseminates anything through this page and all content is controlled by her "followers/employees" i.e. Veetkam.  This page has hit Facebook's friend limit and therefore new members get denied.  It's also a very controlled atmosphere run by the admins with a strict adherence to only discussing things that elevate Crowther's status regardless if they're true or not.

http://www.facebook.com/kiesha.crowther

The more "official" tribe of many colors facebook page...more of the same controlled atmosphere.

http://www.facebook.com/pages/Tribe-of-Many-Colors/120728341290500#!/pages/Tribe-of-Many-Colors/120728341290500?sk=wall



There are other forums out of the tribe of many colors control that also are discussing this topic.  The Rick Ross forum has a well written post (by Cresecent, nice job) using info from the board here and other sources and putting a timeline onto some of her claims and how they've changed over time (i.e.  The referencing of Alejandro Cirilo Perez to authenticate her 2012 claims, then when finding out that he actually denounces the 2012 theories changing the focus of authentication to Bernard Perona (aka. Drunvalo Melchizedek).

http://forum.rickross.com/read.php?12,95049,95049

I know I'm posting information already posted in the thread.  Just bringing things up to date regarding facebook pages, info getting out there and discussions on other forums.

Superdog
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Defend the Sacred on December 22, 2010, 05:17:32 pm
Thanks, Superdog. I'm thinking about somehow highlighting these summation posts like we've done with the Salish statement. Maybe we need a no-tangents, summary/resources thread... thinking on it.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Smart Mule on December 22, 2010, 05:21:42 pm
critique please - http://www.vimeo.com/18090033
 (http://www.vimeo.com/18090033)
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Spandex~Atom on December 22, 2010, 05:24:25 pm
Thanks, Superdog. I'm thinking about somehow highlighting these summation posts like we've done with the Salish statement. Maybe we need a no-tangents, summary/resources thread... thinking on it.

Definately!

we can always link to a quote here if we need to do that.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Spandex~Atom on December 22, 2010, 05:34:25 pm
critique please - http://www.vimeo.com/18090033
 (http://www.vimeo.com/18090033)

Great job! I think that explains it all very well, and why such a great wisdom-keeper wouldn't be promoting the industry.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Defend the Sacred on December 22, 2010, 05:51:07 pm
critique please - http://www.vimeo.com/18090033
 (http://www.vimeo.com/18090033)

Excellent! Does Vimeo also have that "related videos" function? Can we put this on YouTube, too? I want people who watch her videos to have this pop up as a "related video".
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: critter - a white non-ndn person on December 22, 2010, 05:55:15 pm
critique please - http://www.vimeo.com/18090033
 (http://www.vimeo.com/18090033)

perfect.. will post it.. :)  
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Smart Mule on December 22, 2010, 05:58:01 pm
pming you
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Smart Mule on December 22, 2010, 06:14:18 pm
Thanks Critter :)
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Smart Mule on December 22, 2010, 06:26:13 pm
Great job! I think that explains it all very well, and why such a great wisdom-keeper wouldn't be promoting the industry.


Thanks Spandex.  Her crystal promotion thing has been bothering me since she posted it.

Just for clarification, I know that there are people posting here who have mentioned that they posess/use/enjoy crystals.  I'm not trying to be a jerk to any of you, I'm just trying to educate.

Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Peasant on December 22, 2010, 06:38:43 pm
Another "unofficial" page admin'd by a guy named Steven O' Riordan in support of Kiesha and ironically is being attacked by Veetkam Rensch (the tribe of many colors admin...control freak, depends on your point of view) as being illegal...interesting set of comments on it including a very edited discussion of her being a fraud.
Oh, you wouldn't know how many times Veetkam Rentsch has done this before with other FB pages. He's also published my name and the city where i live in the official Tribe of Many Colors forums, branding me a collaborator and information stringer who is out to get accolades from the administrators here, and Rentsch will not delete my personal information despite of a friendly request to do so. He's also suggested taking legal action against me and the people here at NAFPS, and that some day i may "find out that all this isn't a game". If Kiesha was a responsible person with extraordinary abilities, she would know not to leave the maintenance of her official website in the hands of such a man.

There are other forums out of the tribe of many colors control that also are discussing this topic.  The Rick Ross forum has a well written post (by Cresecent, nice job) using info from the board here and other sources and putting a timeline onto some of her claims and how they've changed over time (i.e.  The referencing of Alejandro Cirilo Perez to authenticate her 2012 claims, then when finding out that he actually denounces the 2012 theories changing the focus of authentication to Bernard Perona (aka. Drunvalo Melchizedek).
http://forum.rickross.com/read.php?12,95049,95049

Thanks, i was hoping for some comments there about the perspective NAFPS holds about the situation. Guess it's perhaps not necessary yet, though who knows what kinda things Crowther will try to get her followers to do in a year... start living in communities, move out from countries sensitive to sea water levels rising, idk. I think the videos of her recent talks are scary... this is dying, that is dying, the oceans are dead, fish are dead, polar bears are dead, insects are killing everything, people are dying, we only have two years to change ourselves, but start living in the heart and might i suggest *hint* you join my Tribe and use my Messages and Techniques of Living in the Sacred Heart and you will survive the Great Cleanse and everything will become beautiful when there are only nice people left on our planet *hint*... who knows what she might say in the coming 2 years.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: critter - a white non-ndn person on December 22, 2010, 07:36:31 pm
Great job! I think that explains it all very well, and why such a great wisdom-keeper wouldn't be promoting the industry.


Thanks Spandex.  Her crystal promotion thing has been bothering me since she posted it.

Just for clarification, I know that there are people posting here who have mentioned that they posess/use/enjoy crystals.  I'm not trying to be a jerk to any of you, I'm just trying to educate.



You're welcome Sky.. and Thank You too! 

I have crystals. I love them. But it's been a long time since I've purchased.  I won't be purchasing them
again.  Thanks for the education.. :)

Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Spandex~Atom on December 22, 2010, 08:23:50 pm
Edited
(http://i1115.photobucket.com/albums/k558/SpandexAtom/NotHappyjpg2.jpg)
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: critter - a white non-ndn person on December 22, 2010, 08:28:24 pm
that don't look right to me. it almost looks like it could be taken that they are supporting her. 
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Spandex~Atom on December 22, 2010, 08:30:18 pm

Just for clarification, I know that there are people posting here who have mentioned that they posess/use/enjoy crystals.  I'm not trying to be a jerk to any of you, I'm just trying to educate.
[/quote]


No offence taken at all :-)

I love crystals and have made a collection over the years. What you have said has given me food for thought. I don't need any more crystals and if I'm tempted to buy one again I will be thinking of the damage it does to the land.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Spandex~Atom on December 22, 2010, 08:31:39 pm
that don't look right to me. it almost looks like it could be taken that they are supporting her.  


ok, maybe the wording needs change? Any suggestions?

edit;

I just altered the text to make it more obvious. thanx :-)
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Superdog on December 22, 2010, 08:44:09 pm


Another "unofficial" page admin'd by a guy named Steven O' Riordan in support of Kiesha and ironically is being attacked by Veetkam Rensch (the tribe of many colors admin...control freak, depends on your point of view) as being illegal...interesting set of comments on it including a very edited discussion of her being a fraud.

http://www.facebook.com/pages/Kiesha-Crowther-Little-Grandmother/166068650098821?v=wall#!/pages/Kiesha-Crowther-Little-Grandmother/166068650098821



Here we go...another follower has just spammed the wall on this one....every post is hit with the same comment.

"Vicky Barton THIS IS A FAKE PAGE THIS IS NOT KIESHAS OWN PAGE BUT SOMEONE IMPERSONATING HER. AND HAS BEEN REPORTED AND WILL BE TAKEN DOWN."



And here's Veetkam losing it on the links page.  For some reason the whole thread of comments doesn't appear when I click on it, but these three comments from Veetkam do...

http://www.facebook.com/pages/Kiesha-Crowther-Little-Grandmother/166068650098821?v=wall#!/posted.php?id=166068650098821

"#
Veetkam Rentsch Artüras - because its FAKING ! thats reason enough - !! they use others names and Pictures - this does violate civil rights too !!!!
December 15 at 5:21pm ·
#
Veetkam Rentsch Artüras - it is clear visible, that you dont care oncivil- rights and dont care on Kieshas personality rights and on her saying that she dont want such pages - and the reason why it is created changes nothing on the Fact that it is a Fake- Site and a Site against Kieshas will - and against her - also in the Internet and specially on Facebook (they have responsibility) valid right !
December 16 at 12:51pm ·
#
Veetkam Rentsch
this gives nobody the right to violate her rights - never !!!!! and this changes never the fact that it is a Fake and against her rights and will -
You have the possibility to read all on her site and you can share her official tribes-page... - http://tribeofmanycolors.net/See More
December 16 at 12:58pm ·





I'm beginning to strongly agree with the cult mentality being shown.  This particular page is HONOR of Kiesha and Veetkam and this other lady are attacking it....seems to be a lot of anger and hostility among Kiesha's followers. 

It's tough to understand.  Really is...and it's a little scary.  If this is how they treat friends...for anyone just getting info from reading this thread.  Veetkam Rensch is the administrator of Kiesha Crowther's facebook pages as well as the Tribeofmanycolors.net website.  When you sign up for one of his pages you are subject to his judgment and rules.

Superdog
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Spandex~Atom on December 22, 2010, 08:54:49 pm
I'm beginning to strongly agree with the cult mentality being shown.  This particular page is HONOR of Kiesha and Veetkam and this other lady are attacking it....

It's tough to understand.  Really is...and it's a little scary.  If this is how they treat friends...lol

Superdog

That particular poster is showing the zealous fundamentalism of a new convert.

Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Saga on December 22, 2010, 09:42:55 pm
Happily, the "enemies" get safely ignored since no one wants to hear what they has to say. :p The "friends" who want to have their own fanpage get brutal attack tho, since the queen bee herself has said that she doesn't allow those sites with her or her tribes name that aren't under her control. So that her message don't get distorted... you get the picture.
Most of the tribers seem to think that "good intentions" justify the lies and the sacrilege, it is not THEIR spirituality anyway and the indians have to change too now that the big changes are coming, like someone pointed out to me. Also, most of them say that it is her truth (I guess you CAN actually decide at your 30s that you have actually born as native american and invent a convenient prophecy for yourself and declare yourself as a shaman and it is a truth! I have to give it a thought, might not be too late for me either, I am only 32!) and one tried to tell me that Kiesha has never said that she was made shaman over the tribes, but gets her orders from some even better _spiritual_ council... And then I was of course told to live in my heart and allow the good life to come to me...

For all that are interested: my life got immensively better when I dropped out of the tribe, I found some honest people who are still in touch with the earth and not flying higher than you get with magic mushrooms (never tried tho, so might be wrong with that) and are actually trying to make a difference to make the world bit more transparent and honest and yes, caring too. Truth might not be always the most comfortable direction to take at first, but when you get the hang of it, it is the best one. :)

And I made myself a promise, after seeing the crystal video, that if I ever buy crystals again, I'll buy from secondhand store... but I am actually more into natural beach stones nowadays anyway. :)
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: critter - a white non-ndn person on December 22, 2010, 09:45:49 pm
The "friends" who want to have their own fanpage get brutal attack tho, since the queen bee herself has said that she doesn't allow those sites with her or her tribes name that aren't under her control. So that her message don't get distorted...


gee.. you mean... like how SHE distorts ?
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Twinkie_Slayer on December 22, 2010, 10:34:35 pm
critique please - http://www.vimeo.com/18090033
 (http://www.vimeo.com/18090033)


   Outstanding.  ;D
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Smart Mule on December 22, 2010, 10:46:21 pm
Can anyone figure out how we can get videos posted here http://greenbd.info/Little+Grandmother/ (http://greenbd.info/Little+Grandmother/)
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Twinkie_Slayer on December 22, 2010, 11:27:55 pm
Can anyone figure out how we can get videos posted here http://greenbd.info/Little+Grandmother/ (http://greenbd.info/Little+Grandmother/)

 I'm not seeing a way to register in order to post vids. Is it a site for paying advertisers?
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Smart Mule on December 22, 2010, 11:39:38 pm
I have no idea if it's a pay site or not.  I couldnt find any way to post, just wanted to make sure I wasnt spacing something obvious.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Smart Mule on December 23, 2010, 12:44:58 am
uh oh http://whois.domaintools.com/white-buffalo-calf-woman.net (http://whois.domaintools.com/white-buffalo-calf-woman.net)
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Twinkie_Slayer on December 23, 2010, 01:10:03 am
uh oh http://whois.domaintools.com/white-buffalo-calf-woman.net (http://whois.domaintools.com/white-buffalo-calf-woman.net)

 We kinda figured that one was coming sooner or later  >:( >:( >:(
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Smart Mule on December 23, 2010, 02:23:11 am
I'm on my iPod, one of veetkams sites has cooties. My computer is infected.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: revealer on December 23, 2010, 02:59:27 am
Kiesha Crowther stated that she "was called to be the shaman of the Sioux and Salash tribes" which the The Confederated Salish and Kootenai Tribes have refuted.  There is also concern over her also charging for faking ceremonies, dressing up as a native person and yet saying she does not teach native ways (aka 'plastic shaman').  Oh, and not giving, seemingly, any of the money she is making back to the tribes but just setting up some kind of big business.   The lying parts seem more serious, especially where claiming Native Authority is concerned.  Other stuff she says is just bizzare or silly, etc.   And she likes to cry alot to get people to try and believe her.  

Is there a particular post or can one be made that would summarize all of the concerns about Kiesha Crowther.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Saga on December 23, 2010, 06:46:50 am
I'm beginning to strongly agree with the cult mentality being shown.  This particular page is HONOR of Kiesha and Veetkam and this other lady are attacking it....

It's tough to understand.  Really is...and it's a little scary.  If this is how they treat friends...lol

Superdog

That particular poster is showing the zealous fundamentalism of a new convert.



New? Vicky has actually been there from the start, she lost her "faith" for a moment, but now she is back in the flag business and all... I am sad that nice people like her get so caught into this that they start to fight her fights for her...

The "friends" who want to have their own fanpage get brutal attack tho, since the queen bee herself has said that she doesn't allow those sites with her or her tribes name that aren't under her control. So that her message don't get distorted...


gee.. you mean... like how SHE distorts ?

Well she distorts probably even worse, but doesn't want to have her distorted message to get distorted anyway (it might actually start to sound NORMAL, omg). :)

uh oh http://whois.domaintools.com/white-buffalo-calf-woman.net (http://whois.domaintools.com/white-buffalo-calf-woman.net)

Herr Veetkam... what a surprise...


Is there a particular post or can one be made that would summarize all of the concerns about Kiesha Crowther for new people on the side who want to get the low down in a few pages.  Perhaps there are a couple of keys posts?


It might be good to gather all the biggest concerns and facts in one place somehow. The Rick Ross forum post was quite a good in summarizing some of the concerns and issues. And the topic about the official statement from salish tribes etc was awesome as well. There is 35 pages of story here now tho and the facts and concerns get lost and not so many who already think the opposite view as negative thing are ready to read 35 pages when even one is overwhelming to many of them. :)
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Saga on December 23, 2010, 06:58:59 am

...and of course the more "official" page...I say more because there's no evidence Crowther disseminates anything through this page and all content is controlled by her "followers/employees" i.e. Veetkam.  This page has hit Facebook's friend limit and therefore new members get denied.  It's also a very controlled atmosphere run by the admins with a strict adherence to only discussing things that elevate Crowther's status regardless if they're true or not.

http://www.facebook.com/kiesha.crowther

The more "official" tribe of many colors facebook page...more of the same controlled atmosphere.

http://www.facebook.com/pages/Tribe-of-Many-Colors/120728341290500#!/pages/Tribe-of-Many-Colors/120728341290500?sk=wall


Superdog

Actually the Kiesha Crowther page here at least used to be her personal account at start. Not sure how much of it it is now, it is full of "follower" posts mostly, altho she posts status updates there occasionally, or someone does it for her now, who knows...

And that tribe of many colors page that opens from the link isn't the "official" fb page, can get in the official page now only if you request to join first, so the link kind of directs you on this "collection" page. To avoid people like us being there, I guess. :p (I kicked myself out long time ago because of the admin...)

Oh and heard the rumor that the first book from LG is coming next year...
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Spandex~Atom on December 23, 2010, 07:21:33 am
(http://i1115.photobucket.com/albums/k558/SpandexAtom/NotourLGjpg.jpg)
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: nemesis on December 23, 2010, 09:55:39 am
critique please - http://www.vimeo.com/18090033
 (http://www.vimeo.com/18090033)

excellent sky   8)

I think you put forward both the ecological and environmental issues, but also issues that newagers would relate to (hopefully) re the integrity of the earth etc.

I was unaware of these issues so your video was an education for me.

One thing about the photos you showed that concerned me is that many of the mines seem to depict child labourers.  I wonder if this is one more thing to put in a subtitle in the video? Something like "some crystal mines use child labourers to dig for quartz -  little children deprived of education, working in dangerous conditions".

Also I understand that quartz mining can be dangerous for the workers if quartz is inhaled in power form and is in the same hazardous category as asbestos and for this reason people aged under 18 are not permitted to work in any position where they encounter quartz in powdered form (which would I think include quartz mining).

an example

Quote
Detrimental Occupations
In addition to the 17 HOs, the WHA establishes nine detrimental occupations that the N.C. Commissioner of Labor has declared to be detrimental to the health and well-being of all youths under the age of 18. These detrimental occupations apply to most employers in North Carolina. The only employers exempt from these detrimental occupations are governmental, agricultural, and domestic employers. All other employers operating in North Carolina are subject to these detrimental occupations regardless of federal or state coverage. No youth under 18 years of age may be employed by an employer in the following nine detrimental occupations:

Quote
(2) Any processes where quartz or any other form of silicon dioxide or an asbestos silicate is present in powdered form;
For information on asbestos, go to http://www.osha.gov/SLTC/asbestos/.

source:
http://www.nclabor.com/wh/fact%20sheets/joint_state_fed.htm

This could seem to be confirmed by this article on Silicosis, a serious lung disease caused by inhalation of silica dust generated in various industries including gem polishing and quartz mining.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silicosis

So you may wish to add another title saying something like "unregulated quartz mines expose miners and gem polishers to the potential fatal lung disease Silicosis via inhalation of silica dust".


Interesting bit of history about how the Nazis use prisoners from death camps as slave labour to mine quartz
http://www.shoaheducation.com/camps/melk.html




 
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Saga on December 23, 2010, 10:12:09 am
This is a bit off topic, but I am making the page in my blog now and if anyone wants to leave any specific comment about exploitation or cults or 2012 hoax or anything, pm them to me, otherwise I just use links I have  found earlier that explain how harmful certain things are and why and will post the videos and all about Kiesha as well.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: luna on December 23, 2010, 11:23:50 am
Hi, I've been lurking here for a while, and following this thread with great interest.

Been thinking about the phrase that keeps being repeated about critics of KC - "not being in the heart". It's turning into a nice nifty mantra for psychological control. If you're not "in the heart" you're not one of us, you're bad, unenlightened, an outsider. I think a similar phrase was used in the "cult" video we've probably all seen: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zxJyfqeaKU8

It reminds me of the phrase used by James Arthur Ray in his workshops and retreats - "you're not playing full-on" - to make people feel bad for dropping out of any activity that was getting uncomfortable for them, to exert psychological pressure to push themselves to the limits. People would say this to themselves when they felt themselves flagging. And we all know what happened next...

Seems every dodgy organisation needs a nice little soundbite such as this.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Spandex~Atom on December 23, 2010, 01:11:37 pm
Thanx luna, that's an excellent video.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Smart Mule on December 23, 2010, 01:56:05 pm
excellent sky   8)

I think you put forward both the ecological and environmental issues, but also issues that newagers would relate to (hopefully) re the integrity of the earth etc.

I was unaware of these issues so your video was an education for me.

One thing about the photos you showed that concerned me is that many of the mines seem to depict child labourers.  I wonder if this is one more thing to put in a subtitle in the video? Something like "some crystal mines use child labourers to dig for quartz -  little children deprived of education, working in dangerous conditions".

Child labor is used extensively in mines in third world countries.  I'll make a new video after the holidays specifically focusing on this.  One thing to keep in mind is that several of the pictures showing shiny happy children, these pictures were taken at US mines where you can pay a fee to subject yourself and your children to hazardous conditions. 

Quote
Also I understand that quartz mining can be dangerous for the workers if quartz is inhaled in power form and is in the same hazardous category as asbestos and for this reason people aged under 18 are not permitted to work in any position where they encounter quartz in powdered form (which would I think include quartz mining).

an example

Quote
Detrimental Occupations
In addition to the 17 HOs, the WHA establishes nine detrimental occupations that the N.C. Commissioner of Labor has declared to be detrimental to the health and well-being of all youths under the age of 18. These detrimental occupations apply to most employers in North Carolina. The only employers exempt from these detrimental occupations are governmental, agricultural, and domestic employers. All other employers operating in North Carolina are subject to these detrimental occupations regardless of federal or state coverage. No youth under 18 years of age may be employed by an employer in the following nine detrimental occupations:

Quote
(2) Any processes where quartz or any other form of silicon dioxide or an asbestos silicate is present in powdered form;
For information on asbestos, go to http://www.osha.gov/SLTC/asbestos/.

source:
http://www.nclabor.com/wh/fact%20sheets/joint_state_fed.htm

This could seem to be confirmed by this article on Silicosis, a serious lung disease caused by inhalation of silica dust generated in various industries including gem polishing and quartz mining.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silicosis

So you may wish to add another title saying something like "unregulated quartz mines expose miners and gem polishers to the potential fatal lung disease Silicosis via inhalation of silica dust".


Interesting bit of history about how the Nazis use prisoners from death camps as slave labour to mine quartz
http://www.shoaheducation.com/camps/melk.html


I'll include this as well.  There are more than a handful of detrimental health hazards.  I'll get as many together as I can.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Spandex~Atom on December 23, 2010, 02:15:35 pm
Cutesy propaganda tailored to children:

Knowing Gets in the Way -or- Singing Little Grandmother's Song 1 of 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z_Bt31t8_X4&feature=related

Knowing Gets in the Way -or- Singing Little Grandmother's Song 2 of 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=prQLst76JrE

" DO doubt the mind........." "......The time of prophecy has come, only it's not the dark doom and gloom of the 'Dark Force'! It's the 'Light Message'! the 'Right Message' that's come!......."
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Smart Mule on December 23, 2010, 02:23:34 pm
Oh and heard the rumor that the first book from LG is coming next year...

you heard correctly http://littlegrandmother.net/BOOK.aspx (http://littlegrandmother.net/BOOK.aspx)
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Spandex~Atom on December 23, 2010, 02:26:22 pm
I wonder how much it will cost.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Superdog on December 23, 2010, 02:54:44 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tc1OeX9nnQo

An unedited Zurich video.  No fancy editing..pictures etc etc.  Just her talking and taking breaks for a German interpreter.  It's 40 minutes long and I haven't been able to watch all of it...but here's some gems.

-a long time ago some special beings were born on this earth...let's take Jesus as an example...

-Jesus remembered that he was the great I am....he remembered he was the son of God...just as we are...

-Instead of finding the great I am, people followed Jesus to learn what he learned....THIS is the beginning of manmade religion.

-All religion is manmade...



There's much more.  The jist of the beginning is that we're all "star people"/aliens energy and we made the choice to experience "earth life" and that's why we're here.  She's here to remind us of that.....


There is little bits of truth mixed in with some terrible untruths.  For anyone that's ever bothered to study Abrahamic religions there are 3 main branches.  Judaism, Christianity and Islam.  Judaism is much older than Christianity and is definitely a religion so I don't know how she skipped over the entire Jewish religion and jumped ahead to Christianity as being the first manmade religion.  She also calls Buddhism a religion (I'd call it more of a philosophy..but there are many different schools of thought on it) and Buddhism's roots are also much older than Christianity...so once again she's skipped over that to jump to Christianity as being the first manmade religion.  The significance of Judaism to world history is it marked a change in how people saw religion.  Older philosophies/religions/shamanic practices (depends on the particular subject) tended to call life a version of suffering and people must adhere to the philosophy in order to gain acceptance into the afterlife in some way or another.  Judaism preached that human beings are born in the image of God and a divine afterlife was something you were born with...in other words instead of striving for divinity through a life of suffering...your born with a divinity that is yours to lose.  It's much deeper than that and I apologize for summing up these religions in such simple terms, but the outlandish claim that Christianity marks the beginning of manmade religion in world history is sooooooo far off the mark.

Superdog
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: critter - a white non-ndn person on December 23, 2010, 04:35:06 pm
Oh and heard the rumor that the first book from LG is coming next year...

you heard correctly http://littlegrandmother.net/BOOK.aspx (http://littlegrandmother.net/BOOK.aspx)

That's truly a waste of trees.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Saga on December 23, 2010, 08:06:11 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tc1OeX9nnQo


-a long time ago some special beings were born on this earth...let's take Jesus as an example...

-Jesus remembered that he was the great I am....he remembered he was the son of God...just as we are...

-Instead of finding the great I am, people followed Jesus to learn what he learned....THIS is the beginning of manmade religion.

-All religion is manmade...

There is little bits of truth mixed in with some terrible untruths.  For anyone that's ever bothered to study Abrahamic religions there are 3 main branches.  Judaism, Christianity and Islam.  Judaism is much older than Christianity and is definitely a religion so I don't know how she skipped over the entire Jewish religion and jumped ahead to Christianity as being the first manmade religion.  She also calls Buddhism a religion (I'd call it more of a philosophy..but there are many different schools of thought on it) and Buddhism's roots are also much older than Christianity...so once again she's skipped over that to jump to Christianity as being the first manmade religion.  The significance of Judaism to world history is it marked a change in how people saw religion.  Older philosophies/religions/shamanic practices (depends on the particular subject) tended to call life a version of suffering and people must adhere to the philosophy in order to gain acceptance into the afterlife in some way or another.  Judaism preached that human beings are born in the image of God and a divine afterlife was something you were born with...in other words instead of striving for divinity through a life of suffering...your born with a divinity that is yours to lose.  It's much deeper than that and I apologize for summing up these religions in such simple terms, but the outlandish claim that Christianity marks the beginning of manmade religion in world history is sooooooo far off the mark.

Superdog

Well, maybe the importance of christianity comes from she trying to create something similar, only that Jesus is female this time. She is the great I am and the daughter of God ofc and people follow her and of course, she must pretend like she didn't like it even tho she includes all these little hints to make human subconscious to link the similarities and leave out the rest. Her "religion" or "spirituality" is as man made as the rest of them. Every belief on earth is manmade, some more closer to nature and some far away from it. "For animals, the entire universe has been neatly divided into things to (a) mate with, (b) eat, (c) run away from, and (d) rocks." (Terry Pratchett) Which would be ofc lot easier system.

It is funny to me how person who is kind of "against" man made religion talks about God so much.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: critter - a white non-ndn person on December 23, 2010, 08:19:54 pm
If I recall correctly, in one of the video's I tried to watch, she was explaining how she was called on the phone,
but before that she was raised in a Christian household, and as she went on about "religion" she was referring
to Christianity and her unsatisfactory experience with it. To me, in the bit I saw, it was very clear she had not
looked or learned anything of the other religions of the world and was basing her entire statement of religion from
her only experience of it from Christianity.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Saga on December 23, 2010, 08:37:16 pm
Ok, Kiesha's assistants been active on her fb page

Quote
Kiesha’s mother’s family has always and still does live on the reservation although Kiesha herself was not raised on the Flathead Reservation in Montana. Even though Kiesha did not grow up among tribal traditions, and had grown up away from...... the tribe, she was nevertheless made a shaman and lead threw the initiations by a Sioux named Falling Feathers at age 30. Kiesha has taken part in Inipi and other sacred ceremony under Brave heart and other Elders from other Native Tribes. Kiesha is NOT the shaman for the Sioux or Salish people and wants to make this very clear. Her Family does live on the reservation but their names will NOT be disclosed to all, so people of negative and spiteful intentions have a free for all with them. There are more important things in life than having to *prove one’s self* However, (and this is important), Kiesha was told by these elders that her “tribe” was to be the “Tribe of Many Colors”. The elders who Kiesha works with are fully aware that she was not taught the indigenous ways… She was never intended to lead traditional tribal ceremony, or to present herself as a representative of any particular tribe and its indigenous ways. To this day, she has never presented herself as a representative of the Sioux or Salish traditions. Some people who have linked to her videos on the web or written about her may have incorrectly stated this association or made this assumption—but Kiesha has never presented or described herself as a Sioux shaman. She was initiated into shamanism in the Native American tradition but does not use this language because it implies that she is working within a traditional context. She has been taught to pray and lead ceremony in certain ways, and many of these are in fact traditional ways (by different cultures and peoples, as she is a shaman for the Tribe of many colors and works with the Hawaiian Kahunas, the Waitiha Elders, and the Sami people of the North and so on. But she does not pretend to know or to follow any specific tradition to a T. That is not her role and purpose. Primary responsibility is to be shaman for the Tribe of Many Colors—which includes non-indigenous people of all backgrounds. If Keisha’s words have in any way alluded to being a shaman for a specific tribe she wishes to apologies and give her deepest respect for all traditional peoples and their ways. Little Grandmothers responsibility is to teach love and light and to teach the children of Mother Earth to remember who they are, the power of the heart and compation and she knows that as long as there is love and kindness being taught in the world there will always be those trying to tear it down and try to prove her wrong, belittle her or use hurtful words to attack. Her responsibility is to teach love and light as a shaman of the tribe of many colors despite attacks of negativity.

Who Recognizes Her as Shaman?
Kiesha was initiated into shamanism by Falling Feathers and Grandmother Lota in addition; she has been recognized as shaman of the “Tribe of Many Colors” and gifted medicine from the elders of indigenous tribes and peoples including Three Bears, Sister Wolf, the Cherokee, and Cheyenne individuals, (not the entire Nation of specific tribes. As well as Grandfather Kimmey of the Hopi, the Sami grandmother, the Aboriginal people, the Waitaha, the Maori, the Maya, the Zulu, as well as the lamas of Nepal and Tibet. These gifts began coming soon after she was initiated as shaman at age 30 and have been coming ever since.
Kiesha’s elders are not from just one tribe—She is being guided by the elders who comprise of indigenous people’s all over the planet, as well as receiving direct teaching from spirit guides and indigenous elders past of several different peoples from different traditions. Whether this seems incredible and unbelievable to some, this is the case—If some people think that matters of utmost sacredness should conform to our cultural expectations and prerogatives, that Kiesha should be teaching tribal ways and if she is not then she cannot be a legitimate shaman and wisdom keeper--no one will be able to convince them otherwise. ? She did not decide to become a shaman one day but was called to be and has gone through the initiations necessary. She does Not represent the Sioux or Salish tribal people or their ways, she does not teach tribal ways, she has stated time and time again she is not a leader, not a guru, not one who is higher than another but her mission in life is to teach the importance of love and light and remembering every individuals great potential and connection to Great Spirit. These attacks by people trying to prove that she does not represent certain tribes is a waste of time, if you were to ever listen to what Little Grandmother speaks about you would know this. Not only does she teach that she does not represent any one tribe, nor teaches Native American ways but that her purpose is to gather indigenous and non indigenous peoples together to start living in love, from the heart with compassion of others and their beliefs. Those who are attacking her are stating the same thing she herself is teaching; she does not represent any tribe or any one specific way of being. Her family to this day remains on the reservations and she will NOT be giving her families names to those with such malice in their hearts. Any human being would do the same thing to protect their loved ones. Whether or not people know who Kiesha is on the Flathead reservation makes no difference, in fact she was not raised on the reservation and would not expect them to know her in the first place. Kiesha was made shaman under the guidance of a Native American named Falling Feathers but she does not represent any Native American tribe nor intends to.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Freija on December 23, 2010, 08:48:10 pm
"As well as Grandfather Kimmey of the Hopi, the Sami grandmother, the Aboriginal people, the Waitaha, the Maori...."

Oooh, she found the Samis. Even THE Sami grandmother. Huh??? Like...there is only ONE?  :D :D

Don´t go there, Kiesha, I know many Samis - there will be signed statements debunking any lies!
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: critter - a white non-ndn person on December 23, 2010, 08:56:19 pm
i'm just getting mad.. and sick. am willing to help post info on each of these claims, and/or help get verified
statements from the people she mentions. the lamas in tibet no doubt.. and the zulu.. can't forget them..

i'm just sickened.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: critter - a white non-ndn person on December 23, 2010, 08:58:46 pm
also, i thought it was fairly common and not offensive for ndn's to name their families?
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Spandex~Atom on December 23, 2010, 09:02:50 pm
"Kiesha is NOT the shaman for the Sioux or Salish people and wants to make this very clear."

Then why did she say that in the first place?

Is she ftupid?
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Saga on December 23, 2010, 09:06:54 pm
"As well as Grandfather Kimmey of the Hopi, the Sami grandmother, the Aboriginal people, the Waitaha, the Maori...."

Oooh, she found the Samis. Even THE Sami grandmother. Huh??? Like...there is only ONE?  :D :D

Don´t go there, Kiesha, I know many Samis - there will be signed statements debunking any lies!

Sami grandmother? Umm... the sami people's shamans or "witches" are almost always male... And yes, if she goes there... at least in Finland sami people are furiously defending their culture, there wont be much left if the hell breaks out.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Freija on December 23, 2010, 09:09:51 pm
also, i thought it was fairly common and not offensive for ndn's to name their families?

It is not only common, it is expected.

I´ll provide any statement necessary from the Samis whenever they are called for  - but as always, she is not giving any clue on which Samis. What "band"? The Samis in Sweden, Norway or Finland? The coastal Samis, the mountain Samis or the forest Samis?
What Sami villages?  Could we please have some details!

SAGA:  ;D  That´s exactly what I was pointing out in another post I made. She does NOT, I repeat, she DOES NOT want to mess with the Samis!!!
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Spandex~Atom on December 23, 2010, 09:12:01 pm
"Her Family does live on the reservation but their names will NOT be disclosed to all,"

Then disclose it to those we trust who actually have the authority to speak on such matters for Native Americans in the area she claims she comes from.

Why hasn't anyone heard of her?

Without proof to the contrary this is all bluffery and has to be assumed as fake as her other fake statements.

The burden of proof lies with the claimant.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Spandex~Atom on December 23, 2010, 09:12:47 pm
also, i thought it was fairly common and not offensive for ndn's to name their families?

It is not only common, it is expected.

I´ll provide any statement necessary from the Samis if it´s necessary - but as always, she is not giving any clue on which Samis. What "band"? The Samis in Sweden, Norway or Finland? The coastal Samis, the mountain Samis or the forest Samis?
What Sami villages?  Could we please have some details!

SAGA:  ;D  That´s exactly what I was pointing out in another post I made. She does NOT, I repeat, she DOES NOT want to mess with the Samis!!!

please, let her try....
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: critter - a white non-ndn person on December 23, 2010, 09:13:27 pm
Well, I would like to take each People mentioned in her statement and get verifiable proof that her claim is false.

I don't want to just sit here talking about it. So.. whoever knows whoever.. and however you can get a statement.. heck,
get one from each of the Sami's.. let them come pounding at her door.. so she can change her statement again.

The more she has to change and rewrite it the better.

I'm just not willing to let her walk away with that.

Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Saga on December 23, 2010, 09:27:22 pm
Freyja... It is not just the sami people she shouldn't mess with, it is the finnish people as well. Most of us don't buy bullshit in any form and when we have the scent of it... well, we simply tell the truth, no matter what it takes and we tell it straight... So I made some points in those posts in some sites in fb. Also, have a page of exploiting and cults in my blog and I am ready to add any further proof about Kiesha there as well, have the current vids and texts linked there too.

(Ofc, like I have said to everyone, IF Kiesha someday decides to give proof that is actually worth something that she is what she claims to be, I will be first to apologize. I don't see that day coming.)
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Peasant on December 23, 2010, 09:39:22 pm
"As well as Grandfather Kimmey of the Hopi, the Sami grandmother, the Aboriginal people, the Waitaha, the Maori...."

Oooh, she found the Samis. Even THE Sami grandmother. Huh??? Like...there is only ONE?  :D :D

Don´t go there, Kiesha, I know many Samis - there will be signed statements debunking any lies!

What the... "grandfather Kimmey of the Hopi"...

Quote
http://www.esowatch.com/en/index.php?title=Hopi_and_Pseudo_Hopi_Prophecies
John Kimney, a white man who calls himself Eesawu, was formally asked by the Hopi Nation to quit posing as a keeper of Hopi prophecy. The tribal preservation office was especially angered by Kimney making money off his claims about prophecy. Kimney at first agreed to stop, then reneged on his promise.

http://www.newagefraud.org/smf/index.php?topic=2455.0
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Spandex~Atom on December 23, 2010, 09:49:52 pm
Suggestions for a 'Kiesha Crowther - Little Grandmother FAQ'

The idea is to post questions you think are important to go into a FAQ, and if possible, along with a succinct and objective answer.
These can then be edited into a main Q&A post.
We can shuffle it around to work as well as it can in an orderly way as we go along.

Here is a list of questions I know I would want an answer to if I had only just watched a video and arrived here by googling her name.

Sorry it's just a list of questions right now, without answers.


__________



Q: Who is Kiesha Crowther?

Q: How can we be sure this is true?

Q: Why is she called 'Little Grandmother'?

Q: Where is her proof?

Q: Who do her followers say she is?

Q: Is there any reason to believe this is true?

Q: Where is Kiesha Crowther from?

A: "The daughter of a white father and a Sioux/Salish mother, she grew up in a small farming community in Southern Colorado."
http://www.tribeofmanycolors.net/kiesha/kiesha-crowther.html

"Kiesha’s mother’s family has always and still does live on the reservation although Kiesha herself was not raised on the Flathead Reservation in Montana............ Her Family does live on the reservation but their names will NOT be disclosed to all, so people of negative and spiteful intentions have a free for all with them."
http://www.newagefraud.org/smf/index.php?topic=2871.525
« Reply #536 on: December 23, 2010, 09:37:16 pm »
information source:
http://www.facebook.com/kiesha.crowther
(not a public profile)

Q: What do Native Americans say about her?

Q: Who are the Elders she speaks of as her teachers?

Q: Are they genuine Elders?

Q: How can we be sure?

Q: What  is The Tribe of Many Colours?

Q: What is the origin/origins of this belief?

Q: Is there any truth to this at all?

Q: What are the main points of her message (summary)?

Q: What does she say her agenda is?

Q: What do others say her agenda is?

Q: What has she prophesised?

Q: Are her prophecies unique?

Q: Is there any reason to believe these?

Q: Is she selling anything?

Q: What is she selling?
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Freija on December 23, 2010, 10:34:02 pm
Well, I would like to take each People mentioned in her statement and get verifiable proof that her claim is false.

I don't want to just sit here talking about it. So.. whoever knows whoever.. and however you can get a statement.. heck,
get one from each of the Sami's.. let them come pounding at her door.. so she can change her statement again.

I will bring it up with my Sami friends after all the holidays are over and done with. Some of them are pretty influential.
Please make sure you stay far away from the detonationplace when the shit hits the Sami-fan everyone....

Oh, by the way, if things work out the way we plan there will be an annual indigenous filmfestival in Sweden soon. And the truths WILL be told - all of them.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: oneforall on December 24, 2010, 12:23:07 am
Cutesy propaganda tailored to children:

Knowing Gets in the Way -or- Singing Little Grandmother's Song 1 of 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z_Bt31t8_X4&feature=related

Knowing Gets in the Way -or- Singing Little Grandmother's Song 2 of 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=prQLst76JrE

" DO doubt the mind........." "......The time of prophecy has come, only it's not the dark doom and gloom of the 'Dark Force'! It's the 'Light Message'! the 'Right Message' that's come!......."
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: oneforall on December 24, 2010, 12:51:43 am
My actual reply with the quotes, got lost....well.....next time i make a reply i will do so from Word....so i can keep it saved and not lose it. ARRRGH!  :-\
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Spandex~Atom on December 24, 2010, 01:24:55 am
darn! I hate that. I was wondering too, lol.
I use notepad usually, that little jumpy reply box drives me nuts!

I believe the lady who made these is well intentioned and wishing to only help others, but as much as I like her as a person, I strongly disagree with this message of no-mind, and think the way this is catered to kids (while meaning well) is pretty dangerous. I find it disturbing.

(Transcripts are available beneath the videos if you prefer that format.)

Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: oneforall on December 24, 2010, 01:59:25 am
Yeah Atom I'm with you on that - those videos are very disturbing, actually a bit frightening to me, but then i have X-Ray eyes, after my red alert flag is raised.  Wish I had NOT lost the message, because it was a lengthy comment on how most of KC-LG's followers, will NOT engage any discernment  even in the face of boldface lies, with exploitation of NDN's, the real deal about quartz crystal mining practices, etc etc.  Yet there are some, although few, who like me had noticed things and had begun questioning them, at the same time that all this went public.  Those folks have been set free and now are informed about not only KC but the too numerous various Nuage frauds.  So we have reached some and this is all we can do.  Great work everybody!  Thank-You ALL.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Spandex~Atom on December 24, 2010, 02:53:14 am

Knowing Gets in the Way -or- Singing Little Grandmother's Song 1 of 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z_Bt31t8_X4&feature=related
"..... If I had to sum up my whole message in one sentence, it would include go into heart, abide there - and observe life from there. Everything else pretty much takes care of itself. So what if it sounds crazy?Start watching that - when yousee yourself going that way - realize that you’re in the mind. It’s mind that this seems crazy to - but mind thinks the world, as it is, is just fine.Mind helped make it that way. So do doubt the mind. Quarantine the damn thing!Stop your listening to mind. Let it yap.Just don’t listen. Sacred ceremonies have now been done, around the world, among all the Wisdom Keepers and their native peoples, ushering in the new age.The Ancestors have returned. They’re here with us, now. We’re not alone, my friends. What’s happening here is so pivotal. Many other galaxies have sent representatives here - to watch the outcome of this play. My big message to you here is go listen to Keisha Crowther, to Little Grandmother, and let your heart be lightened and lifted in your breast, as you hear the many wonderful offerings she brings to this age - to the world - along with the rest of her clan -th e Wisdom Keepers. The Natives around the world are finally speaking out. The time of prophecy has come. Only it’s not the dark doom and gloom of the dark force. It’s the Light message, the right message, that’s come....."


Several things.....
Yes we need to engage our hearts, in other words use love in our daily lives, and listen to our hearts, our intuition etc, but it isn't true that the mind is the cause of all the worlds woes. The real solution is to keep your head while allowing your heart to grow. "Don't lose your mind/head". The heart is also as much a problem when it comes to the worlds woes. Many atrocities have been committed in the name of love.
Don't quarantine the mind, just feed it with the right food for it to grow into a useful instrument, and learn to quieten the mind 'chatter'. The mind is good, the heart is good. Creator gave us both and to quarantine either is disrespectful.

Every age is a new age, wether this one will be a good one is down to wether we can engage all of our faculties in a balanced and harmonious way so that we can see what truth there is.
This idea that the Ancestors have returned doesn't make alot of sense to me, in the way it is being promoted. On the one hand we are guided to believe the Ancestors are Star-beings, and on the other hand it's implied that WE are the ones we have been waiting for. Really, if anyone has a belief in reincarnation, or has memory of other lives, this is just an overly lofty representation of a non-Earth-centric understanding of the journey of the spirit in this Universe, or as physicists are saying now, the Multiverse. The way it is promoted is designed to play to the ego and it does, or else Kiesha would absolutely refuse to be put on a throne infront of her followers. If any of us are 'Ancestors returned'  or reincarnated, we certainly wouldn't be making a big thing about it ,  all of us here being equally special. It's irrelevant! If we are ancestors then there are an awful lot of ancestors roaming about not worrying about ascension. Think about it lol. Maybe the ones who are asleep are the ones who think everyone else needs to wake up and 'see the light'.! You want to save your skins and ascend? One minute you are an ancient spirit incarnated here to help save the world, and the next you actually have to ascend or something? You don't actually need a **** thing to evolve as a being except to go about showing love and compassion where you are able, and speaking out about injustice would help a bit too. The WHOLE point is to learn about love, which doesn't mean casting aside love for a very important organ called your brain! DOH.
Does it matter if you are from a different planet or if people are flying about above us, or even if we meet them in visions? Not really. Don't be so impressed! What is all this actually achieving in your life except a 'feel good' factor?
None of this is news and is in no way a reason to put your faith in Kiesha.

Yes of course the world is changing, it is always changing. All the Earth change stuff we allready know! Kiesha is telling us NOTHING new. We all know we need to get our act together, and also that the situation is coming to a sort of climax/change. This is the natural cycle of civilisations when they become too unwieldy. Again, Kiesha is saying NOTHING new. All of it is a compileation of information she has learned and been told, which everyone who has been interested in this stuff also knows about from research.

Nothing she has done or said proves she is someone worth following for any reason, yet her followers are treating her like their guru and literally setting her up on thrones replete with red carpets and dancers!

Is anyone getting the picture yet!

If you are so special, and you are, why do you need Kiesha to be your Shaman-Queen-Goddess/Deluxe-Ancestor-Guru.

You simply aren't using your brains at all are you?

- with love :-)

Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Spandex~Atom on December 24, 2010, 03:15:06 am
What I'm trying to say is that every single living and non-living thing (if you believe there is anything not alive in it's own way) is just as important in the universe as Ancestors, and there isn't one single Ancestor worth their salt who would mind being called out on bs if they were acting like Kiesha because to do otherwise would be the opposite of love, which isn't about hiding your head in the sand.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: critter - a white non-ndn person on December 24, 2010, 04:09:01 am
Well, I would like to take each People mentioned in her statement and get verifiable proof that her claim is false.

I don't want to just sit here talking about it. So.. whoever knows whoever.. and however you can get a statement.. heck,
get one from each of the Sami's.. let them come pounding at her door.. so she can change her statement again.

I will bring it up with my Sami friends after all the holidays are over and done with. Some of them are pretty influential.
Please make sure you stay far away from the detonationplace when the shit hits the Sami-fan everyone....

Yeh, well, I just think they and everyone on her "list" should be informed of their new shame-on.

Hey, it may make the hardcore just that more ridiculous in their fervor.. but at least the People
have been informed and can make a statement if they want.

h, by the way, if things work out the way we plan there will be an annual indigenous filmfestival in Sweden soon. And the truths WILL be told - all of them.

That sounds great! Will it be webcast? I'd be happy to help spread the word.. :)

Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Spandex~Atom on December 24, 2010, 04:16:38 am
Kiesha, people who follow you are saying you are White Buffalo Calf Woman returned! Maybe you could post here and tell us how to survive the winter with no food money shelter or possessions, because there are alot of people like that about who can't afford to go to your workshops and meet you in person.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: critter - a white non-ndn person on December 24, 2010, 04:27:28 am
also, i thought it was fairly common and not offensive for ndn's to name their families?

It is not only common, it is expected.


obviously she doesn't realize that even without naming her family, if she has
family there, someone would know who her family is.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Spandex~Atom on December 24, 2010, 04:30:45 am
yes, she's very sparing with any info about herself or her history at all, we know even less than we know of Jesus!
Did she ever have a career before this venture? what was she doing between being born and having her calling? She's a bit like Melchizedek, who came from nowhere!
C'mon Kiesha, tell us a bit about yourself other than your visits to nature and involvement with owls.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Saga on December 24, 2010, 08:27:35 am
I have new parable about how much LOVE actually justifies. (it's not too christmassy, but i didn't sleep well)
So, you love your mother. You steal her purse... use all her money, make credit on all her credit cards, throw away her identification papers and shit in the purse. Then you get the bag back to your mom and say to her that it is better than new and she should thank you. But hey, it is ok, you did it from love and you encourage everyone to do that for their moms as well, since it is awesome.

Edit: the NEW story about who she is, is now here: http://www.tribeofmanycolors.net/news-and-urgent-messages/urgent-message-concerning-desinformation-campaign-in-the-internet.html

And I'll be gone to "celebrate" my xmas now, not too much to celebrate tho this year...
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Freija on December 24, 2010, 10:13:50 am
h, by the way, if things work out the way we plan there will be an annual indigenous filmfestival in Sweden soon. And the truths WILL be told - all of them.
That sounds great! Will it be webcast? I'd be happy to help spread the word.. :)
Well, it all started with a filmdirector getting in contact with me while making a documentary about the plight of North American Indians, she is half Ojibway and wanted to interview me and include some footage from my film, Spirits for sale. She absolutely HATES the exploitation and the frauds. So after some discussions we decided to try to get an annual filmfestival going including guests from different indigenous peoples presenting their cultures. It will also be a strong focus on informing about frauds and charlatans. Our goal is to start up in Stockholm, our capital, and then be able to move it round to different places in Sweden.

Right now we´re working with the Sami organisations, also getting Amnesty involved.  Next step is finding sponsors. Hard work and many applications going out but right now it´s looking good.  (Credit goes to my film-friend!) So whenever it´s time I will let all of you know!
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: luna on December 24, 2010, 11:40:10 am
Quote from: Spandex~Atom
Yes we need to engage our hearts, in other words use love in our daily lives, and listen to our hearts, our intuition etc, but it isn't true that the mind is the cause of all the worlds woes. The real solution is to keep your head while allowing your heart to grow. "Don't lose your mind/head". The heart is also as much a problem when it comes to the worlds woes. Many atrocities have been committed in the name of love.

Atrocities are also caused by aggression, hate, predudice, greed, vengefulness, pettyness, spite, boredom, jealousy, etc. These are not rational thoughts, a product of "mind", they're emotions - powerful emotions, a reflection of our animal origins. It's through the application of mind that these emotions can be tempered, we can choose to defuse them and not act on them. It's what sets us apart from animals - the ability to think and to choose. Even the decision to act "with love" is a decision that is made by the thinking mind.

In many long-term entrenched conflicts (eg. Northern Ireland, South Africa), resolution has only been achieved by putting these emotions aside, putting in hours and hours on gruelling negotiations, with all sides having to make compromises and learning to live with that. All this requires a lot of hard thinking.

Also, being ethical, having moral values, requires are person to have compassion, which means stepping into someone else's shoes, seeing the situation from their point of view, viewing your own actions from outside yourself. Quite a bit of thought involved in that.

If everyone behaved rationally 100% of the time, there probably wouldn't be any wars. What would be the point? A waste of energy, when you could just talk things over instead...

Being 100% rational would also make human culture a very sterile and lifeless thing, and would not be a society I would want to live in. So yes we need both...
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Lodro on December 24, 2010, 02:31:25 pm
"As well as Grandfather Kimmey of the Hopi, the Sami grandmother, the Aboriginal people, the Waitaha, the Maori...."

Oooh, she found the Samis. Even THE Sami grandmother. Huh??? Like...there is only ONE?  :D :D

Don´t go there, Kiesha, I know many Samis - there will be signed statements debunking any lies!

well, the bit about the "lamas of nepal and tibet" is demonstrably false.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Superdog on December 24, 2010, 02:48:36 pm
Here we go...more people starting to believe this crazy idea that she's White Buffalo Calf Woman "returned".  A youtube user "Whitebuffaloswoman2012" beginning to leave comments on LG videos....just another case of "the little grandmother" facade causing people...who honestly just don't know any better...believing things above and beyond simply because of her packaging as a "Native American shaman over the Sioux and Salish tribes" and a product of a fictional prophecy about a "fair haired girl" coming through "Native American tradition" (completely broad, oversimplistic term...there's really no such thing) to save us all.

http://www.youtube.com/user/WHITEBUFFALOSWMN2012


WHITEBUFFALOSWMN2012 Kiesha Crowther is our blessed white buffalo woman. She is returned to you and me to save our earth. We must not hate over skin colors. She is sioux salish and she is beyond the indian skin color. White buffalo wants us to all love each other. We are all coming back as white buffalos.



I'm sure Lakota people feel rrreeeallly "honored" by her return in the form of a white lady selling herself as one of them...(sic)  ::)

Superdog
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Spandex~Atom on December 24, 2010, 02:59:56 pm
"We are all coming back as white buffalos."

“Danger, Will Robinson! DANGER!”
 
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Superdog on December 24, 2010, 03:14:46 pm
Here's one of Eddie Vibes videos...it describes her story more in detail in the first couple of minutes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Jt3ifzJqBM


One of the things that struck me....the "recognition" at 8 years old that she talks about happened at a pow-wow of all places.  She was prayed for by either some members of the community or maybe family members (she never distinguishes...only say "Lakota elders" brought her forth and gave her a blessing....but anyone who attends pow-wows regularly has a better idea what that really means and it's not as romantic as she makes it).  She admits that she didn't understand any of it, yet she uses that story as a source of legitimacy that she was "recognized" at that age.   

Then follows up with the story about the "phone call" from THE "indigenous peoples" (I'm assuming all of them??  lol) and her "calling" to be initiated as a shameon.

For people who don't regularly attend pow-wows....it's not uncommon to give some sort of recognition to relatives when they visit the community from far away.  It's not a form of "shaman recognition".  It's being a good host and treating outsiders in a good way.  She admits herself that they spoke Lakota and she didn't understand any of it...so if she didn't understand any of it...how did it elevate into a status of "recognition by indigenous elders"?   Anyone reading can probably connect the dots...she's romanticizing someone saying a prayer for her at a pow-wow (not a ceremony....there's a HUGE difference between a powwow and a ceremony).  So, that leaves two distinct possibilities....either she's flat out lying (omission of all the facts is a form of lying as well) or she's completely misinterpreting people at a pow-wow being nice to her as some form of global "indigenous recognition".  Neither of which authenticates her legitimacy, but definitely works against the story about being made a "shaman over the Sioux and Salish tribes" (LG's words posted on her bios and reiterated verbatim in her videos and interviews as part of her "official" information).

Superdog
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: debbieredbear on December 24, 2010, 03:15:35 pm
good grief! The woman is arrogant beyond belief. First, shaman over the people and not the savior.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: goozih on December 24, 2010, 03:16:22 pm
 :( :( this is what she thinks of us
"I personally wish to address the issue of what is being written on this (fraud site), I thought at first I would not give an ounce of my energy to such a low quality group of beings who are not asking questions but simply attacking and offensively speaking ill of very good human beings. But I see now that I need to address such actions because those who read this without knowing any truth of what I or the others being attacked on this site really are about or what it is we are doing in the world will be dreadfully mislead.  It is so disheartening to me that people would spend their time trying to damage the names of those who are working so hard in the world to simply spread the message of love, but I also know as long as there is good, love and light in the world there will always be the opposing dark and negative. I ask the readers to listen with their own hearts to know what is true for themselves as I always have asked and do not judge without educating yourself on what is really being said and done. I do not wish to bicker back and forth or have to defend myself for such ridiculous things such as (I am wearing a microphone so I must be a fraud) the list of outlandish remarks go on and on and I do not have the time or the wish to argue about such comments. Those who are being attacked on this site are some of the most beautiful beings on our planet such as the 13 indigenous grandmothers, the continental council of indigenous elders, Adam yellow bird who all spend their lives dedicated to raising consciousness, awareness and love vibration." http://www.tribeofmanycolors.net/news-and-urgent-messages/urgent-message-concerning-desinformation-campaign-in-the-internet.html
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Spandex~Atom on December 24, 2010, 03:53:59 pm
There is no such thing as bad publicity where her comments about us are concerned, lol. That's how I found this site in the first place. :-)

"....such a low quality group of beings who are not asking questions..."

Absolutely priceless, lol. That's what the WHOLE thread has been doing!
I have to conclude she is demented, because only a demented person could interpret over 30 pages of questions as "not asking questions" lol.

Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: ShadowDancer on December 24, 2010, 06:48:39 pm
:( :( this is what she thinks of us
"I personally wish to address the issue of what is being written on this (fraud site), I thought at first I would not give an ounce of my energy to such a low quality group of beings who are not asking questions but simply attacking and offensively speaking ill of very good human beings. "

http://www.tribeofmanycolors.net/news-and-urgent-messages/urgent-message-concerning-desinformation-campaign-in-the-internet.html

um, Keisha, what has been written are questions you have so far failed to answer.  Obviously you aren't going to "give an ounce of my energy" as you cannot satisfactorily answer them without showing the falsehoods in your claims.

What are you so afraid of honey?  That the charade will come away and you will lose your source of income from the followers who lack critical thinking skills and do not question everything they are told as they are so desperate for some form of spirituality in their lives?

If you have nothing to hide, then respond as the truth is always the path to enlightenment. Isn't that part and parcel of what you "teach"?
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Saga on December 24, 2010, 08:26:18 pm
:( :( this is what she thinks of us
"I personally wish to address the issue of what is being written on this (fraud site), I thought at first I would not give an ounce of my energy to such a low quality group of beings who are not asking questions but simply attacking and offensively speaking ill of very good human beings. But I see now that I need to address such actions because those who read this without knowing any truth of what I or the others being attacked on this site really are about or what it is we are doing in the world will be dreadfully mislead.  -

She has been asked directly by many people before writing in ANY sites about ANY doubts. She chose not to give answers tho or give just mindless babble/more claims. The new claims probably will change many times to be as hard to understand as possible, but with as many claims of authority as possible.

I asked so many questions in fb in last couple of days that the admins will now delete my posts. :p
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: critter - a white non-ndn person on December 24, 2010, 08:30:52 pm
I'm wondering what happened to samY and if he/she ever got the video's back up?
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Saga on December 24, 2010, 09:38:11 pm
I am in any case sick of her and sick and tired of her claims and the people fighting her fights for her and trying to reason against it in any way. I mean, they think that it is ok to support lies in addition to that "love" they are supporting. Almost none give a thought to ever changing claims, even tho they have proof under their eyes all the time. There is nothing pure in love that is based on lies, especially when the web of lies is ever getting bigger and bigger and there is no sign of regret or remorse and change. I have enough grief in my own family at the moment to give any energy to frustration that seeing people to walk that path with their eyes covered. It sickens me and it saddens me, hopefully they are as "aware" as they think they are and not following her and getting lost totally when the illusion breaks. I need a break from all this anyway. Not because they have win (I know that some people get lots of their power from thinking they have won and some of them are probably reading this forum), but because I can't watch it when someone is walking towards the possible doom and gloom. My heart breaks, I don't need this. I have witnessed death in last... I don't know how many years... in my life and I just can't watch people WILLINGLY walking down the plank and jump in the sea of lies, where is only tiny pieces of truth to help to keep the story together. No, I don't feel truth in Kiesha's words. I see tiny fractions of it distorted in ways that aren't helpful to anyone. And I am done with it. And for now, I think I am done of trying to do anything against it. What do I care, I will become like most of her followers and just watch away for a while, maybe say a prayer occasionally, hoping that I don't have to see when the sit hits the fan.

Will start with removing everything from my account that says "LG is so awesome and full of light", which means about half of my "friends" and couple of groups and then i'll go and create myself real life.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: goozih on December 24, 2010, 10:34:31 pm
I wonder how many of her videos will get pulled when her minions go through them to cover up when she says she was chosen as a shaman of the Sioux Salish. And the other countless lies.
I wonder if she regrets using the Native American  angle to "add color" to her propaganda. The core of her teaching is fluff( crystals, crystal sculls, UFO, etc...) I think it helps sell to the European new age crowd.
She was out of touch to think no one would notice.
Thanks to you all for speaking up. 8)
What I mean by fluff is there is no new earth shattering content or really anything to what she says. I am not judging any ones beliefs but her misuse of Native peoples beliefs.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Peasant on December 24, 2010, 10:59:30 pm
I'm wondering what happened to samY and if he/she ever got the video's back up?

Here they are:
http://www.youtube.com/user/ShamansAndMessiahs

SAMy goes by a different name here now.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Spandex~Atom on December 25, 2010, 02:33:40 am
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zCGwDMgW3dc&feature=related
Starting @6:26 (minutes:seconds) of the above video:
Kiesha's own words:
"...but when I turned thirty something extraordinary happened and I got a phone-call. Grandmother Lota told me that day that many many people knew that I was coming. It didn't make any sense to me at all. She said that she understood as well as the other tribal members that I had been, being taught by the grandmothers past, and for the first time in my life I knew I wasn't nuts, and everything made sense in one phone call. They understood what I was being taught. They understood how I saw things. And she also spoke of a group of people that are here on the planet right now recieving these same lessons. And so all at once I was not alone, and all at once I wasn't crazy, and all at once I had a purpose. (@7:28) They called me to be Shaman for the Sioux and Salish tribes, and I have to say at first I was terrified. What a huge responsibility. What a huge commitment. And probably the scariest thing was, if I said yes I would have to admit to all of my wierdness. I would have to then share with everyone how I saw things......."

Excerpts from one of Kiesha's statements on her Facebook pagein purple:
located on this site here: « Reply #536 on: December 23, 2010, 09:37:16 pm »
information source: http://www.facebook.com/kiesha.crowther

...To this day, she has never presented herself as a representative of the Sioux or Salish traditions...

She doesn't count presenting herself as the Shaman for the Sioux and Salish tribes as being a representative of their traditions in any way?

Some people who have linked to her videos on the web or written about her may have incorrectly stated this association or made this assumption....

That's because she said herself that she was called to be theShaman for the Sioux and Salish tribes

...If Keisha’s words have in any way alluded to being a shaman for a specific tribe she wishes to apologies and give her deepest respect for all traditional peoples and their ways.

This apology is meaningless, because no allusion was made, it is stated by herself in her videos for all to see. The videos are still on youtube promoting this lie.

Here's a question for you Kiesha, so don't say we don't ask questions!

Which is true?
A - "They called me to be Shaman for the Sioux and Salish tribes"
or
B -"...To this day, she has never presented herself as a representative of the Sioux or Salish traditions..."


But don't worry if you can't answer that, as your followers say: "You know what... it doesn't matter if she's a fraud, personally I don't think she is, but it's irrelevant, are you listening to the message? Does it speak to you? If not then turn away and let others be a part of this without it being contaminated by the likes of you. "

How loving!
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: ShadowDancer on December 25, 2010, 02:46:42 am
I wonder how many of her videos will get pulled when her minions go through them to cover up when she says she was chosen as a shaman of the Sioux Salish. And the other countless lies.
I wonder if she regrets using the Native American  angle to "add color" to her propaganda. The core of her teaching is fluff( crystals, crystal sculls, UFO, etc...) I think it helps sell to the European new age crowd.
She was out of touch to think no one would notice.
Thanks to you all for speaking up. 8)
What I mean by fluff is there is no new earth shattering content or really anything to what she says. I am not judging any ones beliefs but her misuse of Native peoples beliefs.

The beauty of technology is there are apps, extensions and other sites out there that can download and store her videos so even if they get pulled they will be archived. 

For Firefox one extension is DownloadHelper (http://www.downloadhelper.net/) which will download to your computer.  Another is ClipNabber (http://clipnabber.com/) which will download to the internet cloud.

Of course there is the low tech method of video recording your monitor using a camera while playing her videos.

It seems they haven't taken to heart the saying "Oh what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive."

They can remove videos all they want and dispute the transcriptions of her videos posted here, but it will have no effect.  It is like playing whack-a-mole if they are pulling videos in order to cover their tracks.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Spandex~Atom on December 25, 2010, 02:54:38 am
From:
URGENT MESSAGE DECEMBER - December 24, 2010
http://littlegrandmother.net/URGENTMESSAGEDECEMBER.aspx

"...But Kiesha does not presume or pretend to present traditional Native ways and wisdom to the public. What she is speaking of goes beyond indigenous prophecies and wisdom,..."

Wow, I bet Indigenous Native Americans everywhere will be in awe that what she says is 'beyond' their ancient traditions and wisdom! How pompous can you get!

"...There will always be individuals who question, who judge, who think that Kiesha is another white “imposter” appropriating Native ways for profit..."

Always?  And why is that?  Could it be that it's because that is exactly what she is doing?
Questioning is now wrong? Kiesha has accused us of NOT asking questions!
So we are damned if we do and damned if we dont?

Being judging is wrong? Then what is this in the next sentence?:
"Unfortunately our culture has too much of this, and it can be hard to separate the wheat from the chaff."

calling us 'chaff' are you? That isn't judging then, when you say it, is it?

Hypocrites!

Her followers will miss all of these incongruities, and they are endless, because they believe in switching off their intellect in favour of pretending all is well and feeling 'in the heart' 'in' love. and blind.




Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Spandex~Atom on December 25, 2010, 03:34:30 am

From:
URGENT MESSAGE DECEMBER - December 24, 2010
http://littlegrandmother.net/URGENTMESSAGEDECEMBER.aspx

"...Again, we realize that for a skeptic this will not be sufficient proof and anything less than a membership roster will not convince them that this Council exists, nor that they are doing work of global and  cosmic significiance, however mysterious it appears. While skepticism can be healthy, and transparency is necessary  on the societal  level of religion, culture and politics, there are nonetheless many spiritual and cosmic good works underway by individuals and groups of individuals that cannot be made known to the internet masses—it would thwart what they are trying to do, and the “under the radar” nature of much that is happening and needs to happen on the planet right now...."

wow, really?!

Q: If it's so important they stay under the radar, why bother mentioning them in the first place?

repeat

Q: If it's so important they stay under the radar, why bother mentioning them in the first place?


Could it be that it all goes towards making 'Kiesha seller of Spirit' oh so important and impressive?


They have to hide in the shadows like frightened children because if they don't the future of the world is at stake? Firstly, where is the Spirit and Faith of the Holy Ones of past times who weren't afraid to be known! Secondly , what pomposity to suggest the future of the world is in the hands of these 'wise ones' who are so wise they (together with Kiesha) couldn't even work out how stupid it is to make ridiculous prophetic claims for 2010 that have not come true! Don't forget that in the Kiesha 2010 video the wisdom keepers all talked amongst themselves about these prophecies, according to Kiesha.

The world is in the hands of these idiots! Heaven help us!

LOL!

Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Freija on December 25, 2010, 09:54:48 am

They have to hide in the shadows like frightened children because if they don't the future of the world is at stake?

Time to alert Wikileaks..   :D  ;)
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Saga on December 25, 2010, 10:15:47 am
I wonder how many of her videos will get pulled when her minions go through them to cover up when she says she was chosen as a shaman of the Sioux Salish. And the other countless lies.
I wonder if she regrets using the Native American  angle to "add color" to her propaganda. The core of her teaching is fluff( crystals, crystal sculls, UFO, etc...) I think it helps sell to the European new age crowd.
She was out of touch to think no one would notice.
Thanks to you all for speaking up. 8)
What I mean by fluff is there is no new earth shattering content or really anything to what she says. I am not judging any ones beliefs but her misuse of Native peoples beliefs.

I suggested her to take off all her old videos to create easier to believe ones since they kind of don't fit in the new claims. :p In public.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: TRIBALMOONS@yahoo.com on December 25, 2010, 03:11:35 pm
My Message to Kiesha:

 Kiesha Crowther, you are but one word. FRAUDULANT! After living on the Salish Kootenai Reservation for many years, I know for a fact that these honest loving people do not bring in outsiders very easily. You sit there on your guilded throne just like Jim Jones and David Coresh giving false prophecies and intimidation to people who are so desperate for any kind of belief in a world that has little to no faith any more. You are nothing but yet another White Woman who has used, abused and tainted a proud people for your own gain. You have the unmitigated gall to stand up and say you were called to be a Shaman?? You are the only one and only SHAMEON!
You are an embarrassment to not only the white people but to any and all Tribes to think that any one NDN would believe in your falsehoods, your lies and your arrogance. You have done nothing and proved nothing and you never will. It's sad really that your life is so little and meaningless you have to portray yourself as someone worthy of being NDN. You are a LIAR and a THIEF to the highest degree and you are plain EVIL. Go back to where you came from because we do not believe, we do not trust and we do not have any respect for You and all of the DISRESPECT you have shown and given to the Indigenous people.

I do not have any hate for you, although I do have contempt, pity, and a whole lot of anger.

Go away white Woman. You are NOT wanted in our world or our Mother Earth.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: nemesis on December 25, 2010, 07:07:29 pm

Quote
I personally wish to address the issue of what is being written on this (fraud site), I thought at first I would not give an ounce of my energy to such a low quality group of beings who are not asking questions but simply attacking and offensively speaking ill of very good human beings.

If anyone needed proof that Crowther is a deluded racist, surely this delivers all the proof that anyone needs.

More front than Brighton Pier.  Truly sickening.

Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Defend the Sacred on December 25, 2010, 07:38:33 pm
Yep, "low quality group of beings" and "dark" as an insult. Ms. White White Light is White White White Racist.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Lodro on December 25, 2010, 07:52:06 pm
Here's one of Eddie Vibes videos...it describes her story more in detail in the first couple of minutes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Jt3ifzJqBM


One of the things that struck me....the "recognition" at 8 years old that she talks about happened at a pow-wow of all places.  She was prayed for by either some members of the community or maybe family members (she never distinguishes...only say "Lakota elders" brought her forth and gave her a blessing....but anyone who attends pow-wows regularly has a better idea what that really means and it's not as romantic as she makes it).  She admits that she didn't understand any of it, yet she uses that story as a source of legitimacy that she was "recognized" at that age.   

Then follows up with the story about the "phone call" from THE "indigenous peoples" (I'm assuming all of them??  lol) and her "calling" to be initiated as a shameon.

For people who don't regularly attend pow-wows....it's not uncommon to give some sort of recognition to relatives when they visit the community from far away.  It's not a form of "shaman recognition".  It's being a good host and treating outsiders in a good way.  She admits herself that they spoke Lakota and she didn't understand any of it...so if she didn't understand any of it...how did it elevate into a status of "recognition by indigenous elders"?   Anyone reading can probably connect the dots...she's romanticizing someone saying a prayer for her at a pow-wow (not a ceremony....there's a HUGE difference between a powwow and a ceremony).  So, that leaves two distinct possibilities....either she's flat out lying (omission of all the facts is a form of lying as well) or she's completely misinterpreting people at a pow-wow being nice to her as some form of global "indigenous recognition".  Neither of which authenticates her legitimacy, but definitely works against the story about being made a "shaman over the Sioux and Salish tribes" (LG's words posted on her bios and reiterated verbatim in her videos and interviews as part of her "official" information).

Superdog

Superdog, I see a pattern here, because this is exactly how the "recognition by a lama" happened: she ran into a tibetan teacher in Sweden, he blessed her, as lamas invariably do, but she took that to mean he "recognized" her as a shaman. Her communication to me about this was admirably vague, but anyone knowing a bit about how teachers operate in the tibetan buddhist context could figure out what had happened. However, "outsiders" do not and so a story with a bit of reality in it, gets manipulated to serve her purpose: a display of authenticity and recognition, her working capital so to speak. The trouble with this is that it exploits the very people who blessed her in the first place. I know that Lakha Lama will have a real problem with being named as the source of a fraudulent recognition by which people are cheated out of their money. No dharma teacher I know has ever charged money for teaching the dharma. As my teacher told me: "the dharma has to be free"
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Freija on December 25, 2010, 08:10:22 pm
Did anyone contact Lakha Lama and ask him if he has recognized Kiesha as a shaman?
I think it was up to discussion here....but did something come out of it?
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Defend the Sacred on December 25, 2010, 09:11:32 pm
I have exchanged a number of emails with Kiesha Crowther, especially focusing on this point: the "recognition" as shaman.

It turns out she has spoken with Lakha Lama briefly, while in Sweden. And of course he said kind things to her, which is how Lamas are. If you ask for a blessing you'll receive it. This in no way means "recognition", and in general, a Tibetan Lama would never "recognize" a shaman.
I've pointed out to Crowther that she willfully confuses people with her use of the word "recognition", as that is - in Tibetan usage - reserved for recognition as a "tulku" ie a teacher who influences his or her own rebirth in order to continue the link with students and the lineage.

I am sure (but I have yet to receive confirmation from Lakha Lama to whom I've written) that there is no endorsement here, only kind words and a blessing like anyone may receive from a compassionate teacher.

However, in her communication with me, Crowther first claims that she does not take teachings from Tibetan Lamas, then goes on to say that they are somehow connected with the council of indigenous elders. But apart from Lakha Lama, whom she names, she doesn't give any names, so I doubt the existence of these teachers in connection with her.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Freija on December 25, 2010, 09:26:11 pm
Thanks, Kathryn!  :)
Lodro - did you ever hear back from the Lama?
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Spandex~Atom on December 25, 2010, 11:20:11 pm



2010 with Shaman, Kiesha Crowther 5/10
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P_3rCfWTiO8&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P_3rCfWTiO8&feature=related)


"...There are many more things that are going to happen in year 2010...

...All of the secrets will be exposed...

...Government cover-ups will be exposed...

...Knowledge of ufo's and higher intelligence, will be exposed...

...Healing possibilities are gonna skyrocket!...

...Psychic phenomena will be proven as a fact and accepted by science worldwide...

...Filthy waters will be cleaned...

...Child labor willl be completely exposed, and destroyed..."


(http://i1115.photobucket.com/albums/k558/SpandexAtom/falseprophet6.png)




Important, please read:

Official Statement from Salish Elders Regarding Kiesha Crowther
(click on link above this quote box to read in full)   
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Defend the Sacred on December 26, 2010, 05:13:18 am

Kiesha relates her alleged lineage here:
(starting at 6:11 minutes:seconds into the video)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ElesjTYmlc&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ElesjTYmlc&feature=related)

Here are Kiesha's statements about her lineage with the corrections suggested by educatedindian and Ingeborg, and also the possible correction of what I spelled as 'Lota', which may be 'Lootah'(?).

"I am great grand daughter of Ciqala Lootah(?) and Ciqala Jensen. "


Lootha is not a Lakota word


So is this "Lota"/"Lootah"/"Lootha" the "Lota" she is now claiming trained her? Geez, her story keeps changing.

Is "Lota" any Lakota word?
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Lodro on December 26, 2010, 08:54:26 am
Did anyone contact Lakha Lama and ask him if he has recognized Kiesha as a shaman?
I think it was up to discussion here....but did something come out of it?

Yes, i did, but i haven't received word back yet. Also it seems his swedish email address isn't in active use (anymore), nor is his FB page. I'll try and contact people who know him. She names him, so it's only fair he should know how he figures in her story.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Freija on December 26, 2010, 10:56:26 am
Did anyone contact Lakha Lama and ask him if he has recognized Kiesha as a shaman?
I think it was up to discussion here....but did something come out of it?

Yes, i did, but i haven't received word back yet. Also it seems his swedish email address isn't in active use (anymore), nor is his FB page. I'll try and contact people who know him. She names him, so it's only fair he should know how he figures in her story.

Thanks for the info, Lodro. Let me know if you need any assistance since I am here...in Sweden... :)
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Saga on December 26, 2010, 12:56:14 pm
If you check the urgent message, it has changed a bit, she has backed up from the native american claims a lot and added the samis and so on and changed the text in the form that is more over all "information" and actually "corrected" some parts of it to be harder to drown with one sentence like in the first version... Think these people are in the mission to destroy everything every indigenous culture in the world has tried to do to preserve their ways, finishing what christianity started. Way to go.

And ofc, the message conflicts totally with what she says in almost every interview and video that has been published, but no one ofc even sees that, this is the truth now since you can create your own truth.

But anyway, who are these new named people in her claims who "initiated her in native american 'shamanism'"? Imagination or real, or frauds?
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: earthw7 on December 26, 2010, 03:37:05 pm

Kiesha relates her alleged lineage here:
(starting at 6:11 minutes:seconds into the video)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ElesjTYmlc&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ElesjTYmlc&feature=related)

Here are Kiesha's statements about her lineage with the corrections suggested by educatedindian and Ingeborg, and also the possible correction of what I spelled as 'Lota', which may be 'Lootah'(?).

"I am great grand daughter of Ciqala Lootah(?) and Ciqala Jensen. "


Lootha is not a Lakota word


So is this "Lota"/"Lootah"/"Lootha" the "Lota" she is now claiming trained her? Geez, her story keeps changing.

Is "Lota" any Lakota word?


No we have luta which means scarlet, I don't know the word she is claiming and other word ciqala is spelled Cikala means little she murders  our language
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Saga on December 26, 2010, 04:25:19 pm
Seems that she tried to say Grandmother Lota and Jensen and then kind of forgot that cikala means little and not grandmother...
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: revealer on December 26, 2010, 06:01:19 pm
Kiesha, people who follow you are saying you are White Buffalo Calf Woman returned! Maybe you could post here and tell us how to survive the winter with no food money shelter or possessions, because there are alot of people like that about who can't afford to go to your workshops and meet you in person.
Actually from LGs pages here (this page has been changing at least daily since the 24th as the truth is coming out)  
http://www.tribeofmanycolors.net/news-and-urgent-messages/urgent-message-concerning-misinformation-campaign-in-the-internet.html (http://www.tribeofmanycolors.net/news-and-urgent-messages/urgent-message-concerning-misinformation-campaign-in-the-internet.html)

Kiesha, if you love everyone so much, PLEASE stop what you are doing.  Give up the game.   Go back to your normal life and let everyone else do the same.  That step would take much courage, and love, on your part.  Let some real elders come to you and tell you what you should then do.   If you want some personal advise and are sincere, I think you already have a communication line to folks who post here.   We would be glad to support you in getting yourself out of this thing you have created for yourself.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Lodro on December 26, 2010, 06:20:21 pm
Did anyone contact Lakha Lama and ask him if he has recognized Kiesha as a shaman?
I think it was up to discussion here....but did something come out of it?

Yes, i did, but i haven't received word back yet. Also it seems his swedish email address isn't in active use (anymore), nor is his FB page. I'll try and contact people who know him. She names him, so it's only fair he should know how he figures in her story.

Thanks for the info, Lodro. Let me know if you need any assistance since I am here...in Sweden... :)

Much appreciated. From the statement on the LG website, I take it that the "recognition by the lamas of Nepal and Tibet" has now been taken out.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Spandex~Atom on December 26, 2010, 06:54:16 pm
Much appreciated. From the statement on the LG website, I take it that the "recognition by the lamas of Nepal and Tibet" has now been taken out.

Nope, it's still there.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: goozih on December 27, 2010, 08:13:47 am
Does anyone recognize the pictographs in the background of this page http://littlegrandmother.net/WorkshopsandTalks.aspx. Another blatant misuse in my books.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Freija on December 27, 2010, 09:40:30 am
Does anyone recognize the pictographs in the background of this page http://littlegrandmother.net/WorkshopsandTalks.aspx. Another blatant misuse in my books.

All I can say is that I don´t think it is from Sweden. We have loads of rockcarvings, but these are painted, not carved. That´s what it looks like anyway.....
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Spandex~Atom on December 27, 2010, 02:17:16 pm
Here's a better view:
http://littlegrandmother.net/images/petroglyphs.jpg

and here:
http://betseylewis.com/PETROGLYPHS.aspx
(this is the same image)



We filled our drinking water supplies and ate lunch at Corn Creek and then floated to the Legend Creek pictographs.:
http://www.pprr.org/Stories/StoryIdaho2002.htm
(3/4 down page on left)
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: WineHippie on December 27, 2010, 03:44:29 pm
"Very recently, Kiesha called the tribal council office to inquire about her official standing in the tribe. She was told that Falling Feathers had not acted with the permission of the tribal council—therefore she was not recognized officially by the tribe. You can imagine how shocked and dismayed she was to find this out."


has anyone any info on this "falling feathers" person?
does s/he exist even?
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Lodro on December 27, 2010, 04:59:35 pm
Now she is blaming the native america preceptor who "initiated" her, for not having done it the right way? However it's clear she's jumping the gun now. All native american references will be removed from how she practices.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: revealer on December 27, 2010, 05:27:24 pm
"Very recently, Kiesha called the tribal council office to inquire about her official standing in the tribe. She was told that Falling Feathers had not acted with the permission of the tribal council—therefore she was not recognized officially by the tribe. You can imagine how shocked and dismayed she was to find this out."
Is there a URL for the source quoted here ?
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: critter - a white non-ndn person on December 27, 2010, 06:05:14 pm
Now she is blaming the native america preceptor who "initiated" her, for not having done it the right way? However it's clear she's jumping the gun now. All native american references will be removed from how she practices.


That's great.. now if she would also drop all the references to all other sources she is trampling on.   
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Mia on December 27, 2010, 06:19:24 pm
Hmmm, wouldn't you have called the tribal office to check your standing BEFORE you set up all those appointments and taken all that money?  ::) Maybe we should call the tribal offices just to check and see if she actually called...
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Smart Mule on December 27, 2010, 06:21:35 pm
"Very recently, Kiesha called the tribal council office to inquire about her official standing in the tribe. She was told that Falling Feathers had not acted with the permission of the tribal council—therefore she was not recognized officially by the tribe. You can imagine how shocked and dismayed she was to find this out."


has anyone any info on this "falling feathers" person?
does s/he exist even?

I checked the obits for CSKT back to the first of the year.  Kieshas handler claim falling feathers recently crossed however there is no mention of such a person.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: goozih on December 27, 2010, 06:25:30 pm
WOW!.... LOL.......AWESOME.....I know it's not finished but you all did an awesome job in outing this fraud....I love this site...LOL....LOL... :D ;) :) 8) :o :) ;) :D ;D 8)
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: goozih on December 27, 2010, 06:28:59 pm
Did she apologize for the bad names she called us? ;D
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: revealer on December 27, 2010, 07:51:15 pm
Well, this is possibly good.  At least better.

Seems like the names 'Little Grandmother' and 'Tribe of Many Colors' are still very Native American influenced.  Those should go as well and be replaced with other names.

It sounds like she is blaming Falling Feathers and only partly her own misunderstanding.  But she is still relying on supposed 'elders' and the 'Continental Council' which just don't appear genuine.   How you go from your own misunderstanding to making those wild claims does show a lack of understanding and care which should make thinking people realize she is still the same person inside.

If she wanted to really help people she would leave the entire business right now, take a couple of years off, get some real spiritual guidance, work with impoverished folks, and then see what she should do next.   There is way too much mud on the current thing/image/names to pick it up and move it forward.

And of course if she wants some integrity moving forward some kind of video apologies to the Salish and Sioux, all native tribes, her followers, the general public, and folks who confronted her false stance should be in order.   Not holding my breath on that.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: revealer on December 27, 2010, 08:17:41 pm
So is Don Alejandro Oxlaj that Kiesha refers to an authentic Mayan leader ?

And do we know what Kiesha is thinking when she says that they 'recognize' her as a shaman ?   Or is she just making more assumptions?
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Defend the Sacred on December 27, 2010, 08:21:13 pm
http://www.newagefraud.org/smf/index.php?topic=3076.0

As you will see the Call to Action linked above, Crowther is right now booked for some upcoming appearances (there's also one in New Mexico). In her bio (http://www.greatmystery.org/nl/ps2011littleg.html) on that "Prophets" site, she still makes all her false "Sioux/Salish Shaman" claims, complete with publicity photos in her fake, offensive regalia. That's why there's now a grassroots effort to stop her.

And as Sky and Al have posted multiple times now: There is zero evidence that "Falling Feathers" ever existed.

The passing of an honoured Elder, heck, the passing of any member of a close-knit tribal community like we are discussing, would not only be noted in their records, it would have been discussed openly. It would be noted in the tribal newspaper and probably the local mainstream papers, as well.  The death of elders is not the part of tribal ways that is kept secret.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Defend the Sacred on December 27, 2010, 08:24:13 pm
Revealer, I don't care what Kiesha is thinking. I care that she is harming NDN peoples and traditions with her false statements. I'm tired of psychoanalyzing her;  we've done enough of that. Now that we have thoroughly debunked her it's time to stop her - via continued education of those who would be fooled by her and by peaceful but firm protest.


As for Oxlaj/Perez, he has already been discussed multiple times in this thread, and in other threads on the board. You can link to those discussions if you wish, as obviously he is one of the people Crowther is trying to use for authorization, but I would keep specific discussions about him in his own thread and keep this one focused on Crowther. Thanks.

Though I would like it confirmed or denied if he ever "authorized" her in any way. Again, see the research on the first pages of this thread for his connections to the newage "council" they try to pass off as an Elder's Council.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: AlaskaGrl on December 27, 2010, 10:31:04 pm
May I also suggest utilizing Twitter to get the word out on Kiesha and other Plastics.  You can direct specific places for the Tweets to go (called Tags  #) such as #Shaman  #Pagan  #Shamanic   #2012  #Newage (your State or Country)  etc.  Tweets are Global.   I've been posting Kiesha videos all over these locations, along with other videos specifically about the fakes.   If everyone can get a Twitter account (they are free) it's a simple matter to post and saturate the market regarding the Fakes.   

Twitter.com
Twitter Basics http://support.twitter.com/groups/31-twitter-basics   

There are also Meetup Groups you can Join, which are pretty much everywhere, such as  Pagan   Shaman  Shamanic   Wicca  etc...
to let them know about Plastics.  Search for your area groups here to saturate 
http://www.meetup.com/find/



 Lindaa.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Spandex~Atom on December 27, 2010, 11:26:53 pm
(http://i1115.photobucket.com/albums/k558/SpandexAtom/falseprophet4.png)

Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Saga on December 28, 2010, 11:14:14 am
Here's the "official statement" in tribe's site:
http://www.tribeofmanycolors.net/news-and-urgent-messages/official-statement-regarding-native-american-issues-dp1.html

The previous messages have been deleted from the official sites, but they can be found from googles cache, when gooling Kiesha Crowther (or Little Grandmother) urgent message december. Also, I have screenshots on my computer of some of the changing claims...
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Superdog on December 28, 2010, 03:47:36 pm
Been following something.  Veetkam's site (tribeofmanycolors.net) closed down the forum for a while recently.  It just went back up today with this message:

"Dear Forum - Users

The Forum is provisional re-opened. Please use it gently and in respect and as a Forum of the Tribe of Many Colors - WEB-Site. Please respect the Netiquette and please place your postings in an adequate Forums- Section !!!

The downtime has given also a welcome possibility to start with the implementation of an UpDate to the Forum-Software. Some details are stil not defently defined and therefore it's possible, that some functions or colors do change during next time.

We will realise some organisational changes - during next weeks or months. As far this concerns you direct, you will be informed at the appropriate Time.

We wish you a inspiring and lovingful time here
Administration "


Seems they've been having issues.  There's several threads that are locked (ones that have to do with the latest controversies regarding Crowther's false claims).  Looks like they've done some major censoring. 

From reading the available threads it looks like the tribeofmanycolors.net site will be closing in January and they're moving everything to the littlegrandmother.net site....forum included. 

They don't give any substantial reasons for moving other than some PR ideas that the membership has grown too much.  That one I find highly doubtful.  I'm guessing it may have something to do with Veetkam himself and his ability to constantly put his foot in his mouth and embarrass the "community" with his rantings outside of the website and subsequent reports of his control freak behavior and negativity surrounding him and his relations with forum members who were kicked out (some of whom have showed up here voicing their concerns)....but that's just my guess....

Superdog
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: AppGal330 on December 28, 2010, 03:49:22 pm
Yesterday I wrote an email to her org. (nicely & politely) asking them to cease & desist the sale of Sacred ways and/or items...the following is what I sent and their reply I found this morning--OH and I'm being threatened with a lawsuit for LIBEL (odd since I used HER OWN WORDS & CLAIMS--hmmm is repeating someone's own words libelous? NO!!)
----------
To prophets@greatmystery.org
From: xxxx xxxx xxxxxxx@hotmail.com
Sent: Mon 12/27/10 3:10 PM
To:  prophets@greatmystery.org


To Whom It May Concern:
 
I am writing to you in reference to the above mentioned workshop. It has been brought to my attention that
Keisha Crowther aka Little Grandmother will be speaking at your workshop. As a mixed blood Native American,
I would like to inform you that this woman is considered a fraud by both the Lakota and Salish Nations.
She has taken it upon herself to use the most Sacred of items to the Lakota and use it in a very wrong way.
The Canupa (ceremonial Pipe) was gifted to the Lakota Oyate by the White Buffalo Calf Woman. It is not for use
in ceremonies of any kind by others who have not been taught the proper use and or tenants of the Lakota Spiritual
belief system.
The following is a statement sent to me via a friend that came directly from Salish Elders regarding Miss Crowther:
 
Official Statement from Salish Elders Regarding Kiesha Crowther
 
"The Culture and Elders Committee of the Confederated Salish and Kootenai Tribes of the Flathead Reservation protect the intangible cultural resources of the tribes including language, songs, stories etc.
 
"No tribal Elders or elders have met with nor do they condone the claims and actions made by Kiesha Crowther.
 
"She is not their 'shaman', she has no right to claim this title and the Elders and elders of CSKT of the Flathead Reservation would like her to cease and desist immediately from making such false claims that erode the traditions that members of the CSKT Culture and Elders Committee are trying to preserve."
 
The posting of this statement came with the permission and urging of the Salish elders. Anyone doubting this message's authenticity can contact the Flathead Reservation.
 
It is with a most humble heart that I besiege you to cancel this function and help the Salish and Lakota Peoples to stop the theft
of their spiritual ways as a way to earn money. We do NOT condone the selling of things that are sacred.
Thank you for your kind consideration in this most serious matter.
I remain,
respectfully yours,
(my real name here)
(French-Mi'kmaq-Chitimacha/Irish-Scot)
-------------------Their reply that I received today (12/28/2010)---------------------------

RE: Little Grandmother?
 12/27/10
 Little Grandmother Admin Little Grandmother Adminbeautyawakens@gmail.com
 
From: Little Grandmother Admin (beautyawakens@gmail.com)
Sent: Mon 12/27/10 8:28 PM
To:  xxxxxxx@hotmail.com


Dear XXX XXXX,
 
I would like to advise you that Kiesha Crowther has sought an attorney and will seek legal action against those are attempting to slander, libel  and defame her. The below statement was posted to Kiesha's web sites yesterday regarding these Native American issues and these allegations, clarifying her position. The facts are clear, and transparent, and we are prepared to defend them. Kiesha is not teaching Lakota or Native American traditions at this workshop and does not teach them in general. She is not conducting Native American ceremony or in any way representing specific tribal traditions or culture at this workshop, and will not be using any Native American sacred implements publicly, at this workshop or in the future. She has issued a statement clarifying these issues and what she will and will not be teaching and doing in the future.
 
IIf you do not cease this libel and malicious activity we will pursue legal action against you. As of yet we have received no official communications from a tribal council or official on these matters, and Kiesha has done her best to be transparent and cooperative with any concerns raised by native people.She has always been  open to dialogue and to resolution, but many it seems are intent only upon attack and malice. Why not contact her first about this, as a responsible mature adult would do? She is not hiding anything, and is completely open to critiques and tribal concerns. What has this elders council not contacted Kiesha directly, and why is no one in charge willing to sign it or put their official name on it? Kiesha herself has already contacted the tribal council, as you will see from the statement below.
 
Kiesha  stands steadfast in the truth of who she is, and will not cower in the face of these bullying tactics. Kiesha recieved her medicine as gifts from indigenous peoples, and has every right to use it. She will not be using anything at all publicly that is Native American, and this workshop has nothing to do with Native American ways. So please cease this attacking and libelous activity, and be clear that we will not have untruths spread about Kiesha to her personal and professional contacts. We are seeking legal protection, and keeping track of all of these emails and communications. If you are part of a group concerted effort-- please share this information with them, and have them contact us directly with their concerns.
 
 
Official Statement Regarding Native American Issues
 
12/26/2010
 
Kiesha (Little Grandmother) was initiated into shamanism at age 30 by a Native American elder named Falling Feathers. Kiesha’s mother’s side of the family live on the Flathead Reservation in Montana. Falling Feathers was also most likely from the Flathead Reservation, though this is not 100% certain. When she was called she was told that the “elders of the tribe had been watching her” since she was a child and that it was time for her to step into her role as shaman. Falling Feathers personally guided Kiesha’s initiation and taught her many things about how to conduct ceremony, and how to pray in traditional ways with the chanupa, pray while in inipi and conferred upon  her the name “Little Grandmother”. While never certain what this elder’s official title was in the tribe, she assumed him to be an authority since he seemed to speak for the tribe—and most likely was responsible for referring several tribal members and families to her for blessings and healings in the year after her initiation.  For example, this past year, when one elderly woman on the Flathead Reservation died at the hospital and no family could be located, Kiesha was called. Her name had been given by someone official as a recognized spiritual representative of the tribe.  Therefore, Kiesha had every reason to believe her status as “shaman” was somewhat official or at least recognized by the tribe. As we have stated previously, Kiesha was not raised on the reservation and therefore does not know how such matters are officially decided or conferred within the tribe. Very recently,  Kiesha called the tribal council office to inquire about her official standing in the tribe. She was told that Falling Feathers had not acted with the permission of the tribal council—therefore she was not recognized officially by the tribe. You can imagine how shocked and dismayed she was to find this out.
 
Kiesha believed that her initiation was widely recognized in the tribe—this is why she spoke in the first talks she ever gave, as a “shaman for the Sioux and Salish” people—she had every reason to think that she was recognized—since tribal members had been referred to her as shaman in the first year of her initiation.
 
Needless to say, ever since her initiation as shaman, she received medicine and sacred implements from individual tribal members from different indigenous tribes across the world, who said they were guided to create this medicine for her, the one called “Little Grandmother.”  Somehow these people found out who she was. Some of these said they had been waiting for her for many years to come, and knew of her already from visions they’d received.
 
We would like to state, unequivocally, that Kiesha is currently recognized as shaman by the Continental Council of Indigenous Elders, whose members come from indigenous tribes all over the world led by Don Alejandro Oxlaj, the grand elder of the Mayan people, by indigenous spiritual elders who have participated in ceremony with her, and by many Native American individuals who can see the inner truth. Whether she is “officially recognized” by any Native American tribal governing council is another matter.
 
She has never wished to misrepresent herself or any Native people or tradition—She has acted based on her knowledge  of what was true, what was expected of her, and as she has been guided, in a very real way by her spirit guides, ancestors,  living elders, and Great Spirit. In order to stay true to the global and universal nature of the message she has been asked to share, and to avoid misrepresenting any Native American peoples or traditions, Kiesha will continue her speaking in public and conducting the healing ceremonies she is asked to for the benefit of Mother Earth—without using Native American regalia, Native American sacred implements or specific rituals. This is to prevent misunderstandings and any offense to tribal members and to honor the global nature of the work she has been asked to do.  She will also do her best to remove those videos or portions of videos where she speaks in any way of a specific tribal affiliation, or tribal tradition.
 
She will continue to follow Great Spirit and her spirit guides and ancestors in how she is to conduct ceremony for planet earth and serve humanity at this time. She has the deepest respect for indigenous peoples and their wisdom and traditions, and therefore does not wish to offend anyone who feels she does not have the permission or right to use these specific sacred tribal implements in public. She will continue to work with indigenous peoples all over the world and with the Continental Council of Indigenous Elders to perform the sacred work she has been called to.
 
Kiesha has always, and will always, act from the guidance she receives from her ancestors and spirit guides—While she is a human being and no doubt makes mistakes, what she is here to do on this planet at this time is clear—and that the Spirit is with her is clear to anyone who has done ceremony with her, who has worked with her in a healing session, or who has heard her speak from her heart about matters of truth.
 
She never “wanted” to be a shaman, and did not even know what the word meant before she was initiated. Anyone who knows what her life path has been knows that she has paid the price, has suffered, and has had to sacrifice much to serve in this role. Those whose hearts are closed to the message of Love and healing that is needed on the planet right now will bicker and accuse, and —and refuse to see the big picture, as well as the validity of a “tribe of many colors.”
 
Kiesha will gladly step away from a Native American- specific framework in order to respect tribal protocols, preserve her integrity from being attacked, and to preserve harmony around the sacred work she has come here to do at this time as shaman of the “tribe of many colors”. She will not deny the facts of her heritage and how her initiation came about—and that she is being guided by ancestors who are indeed Native American, as well as spirit guides from the South American peoples.
 
It is Kiesha’s  deepest wish that we can all work together for the good of Mother Earth, see beyond our differences, and move forward now  in shifting the consciousness on the planet from the Ego and Mind to Love!
===================
Just as sort of a "CYOA" I asked my daughter (who is a legal asst. @ a prestigious law firm in CO) if what I wrote could be considered libelous. She said emphatically NO! "You used her own words.Statements that she herself has declared in videos posted on Youtube & all over the internet for public viewing. Words that she spoke herself and has also written on her website(s). *she chuckled here* No worries!! I just showed this to one or the Atty's as he was walking by--he LAUGHED!!! Not that I'm ignorant/stupid, I just thought it was a good idea to get an "expert" opionion. Hmmm wonder what they would say if I write back stating that I AM SEEKING LEGAL ADVISE ;) hahahaha I will not back down on this!! They can threaten if they wish to do so. I was taught that NOTHING SACRED IS FOR SALE!!! And THAT philosophy/belief is what I will stand behind 110% until my dying day arrives! They can say she does not use Lakota ways or Sacred items...yet there are pictures all over the internet with her holding a Four Winds Canupa in her hands (while dressed in her Wal-Mart regalia haha) and it is SMOKING which means it was loaded and lit (DUH) She claims she is a "shaman" (more like SHAME ON) for the Lakota & Salish(according to the "statement" it looks like she is now retracting this hmmmm) Sooooooo all I did was REPEAT what she herself has declared from the very begining of her "shamanistic journey" (cough cough GAG!) I've been blessed to get to know quite a few wonderful Lakota (and even a few Salish) throughout the last few years--I've talked to many of them...ODDLY NONE OF THEM KNOW WHO SHE IS!!! Not surprised  ;)


Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: AlaskaGrl on December 28, 2010, 04:13:43 pm
I'll be getting one of those letters too. I wrote the Palm Springs Conference last night, sent them the following.  
I've been threatened before over others, I'lll be threatened again I'm sure.  

Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: critter - a white non-ndn person on December 28, 2010, 04:35:01 pm
Well, just a bit odd I think, since Prophet's Conference has this in it's FAQ:

I only posted number 7 and then 9 because I think they go hand in hand.. if they LOOK or bother to look at KC's bio can't they tell it's "new age BS" and/or just plain BS?  If the people running this Prophets Conference cannot tell that KC's bio is BS then.. they have no business running a prophets conference..

FAQ

7. What makes the presenters experts?

Please see the page of bios for each faculty member. Their education, research, experience, integrity, and knowledge make them experts in their fields. And we conscientiously attempt to only present teachers who continue to explore and expand and search for both subjective and objective truth.

9. Are these 'new age' events?

No, we are not focused on 'New Age' anything. We feel that a good deal of the so-called ‘New Age’ presentations being offered in the ‘New Age’ marketplace are questionable and often designed to enhance the egos of charismatic people and their pocketbooks. These teachings may often become new forms of cultic fundamentalism, presenting dogmatic absolutes and beliefs. We, on the other hand, work to offer the opportunities to explore current topics in science, metaphysics, energy, health, and philosophy, opening to potentials and possibilities that are fluid, flexible, and personal. We look to blend these subjects in ways that are enriching for our lives and for our greater conscious evolution, and that encourage personal responsibility.

 
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Superdog on December 28, 2010, 04:36:57 pm
It seems you sent an e-mail to the prophets conference website and received an e-mail from Crowther's PR flack/booking agent.  I believe this is the same person that admins the littlegrandmother.net web page.

If she's reading this I hope she understands that along with her threat of a lawsuit the littlegrandmother.net page as well as the tribeofmanycolors.net pages BOTH still contain bio information in direct contradiction to the "statement regarding Native American issues"

As quoted from the website littlegrandmother.net's bio page today (12/27/2010) after the release of this statement:
http://littlegrandmother.net/BIO.aspx

"Kiesha Crowther, also known as "Little Grandmother," was initiated as shaman at age 30 by her mother's tribe (Sioux/Salish),"

"Unaware that she had been identified at a young age by the tribal elders to later be shaman, "

From the Maui ceremony interview with Crowther:
http://littlegrandmother.net/LittleGrandmotherArticles.aspx

"Becoming shaman was a total surprise to me, when I was called to be shaman for the Sioux and Salish tribes I was scared and almost turned the calling down because of the responsibility and huge commitment it would take"


There are still several photos that contradict her recent statement as well.  Many of them pictures of her in front of tipis, wearing a buckskin shirt, smudging with sage, using a pipe..etc.

http://littlegrandmother.net/SwedenPhotosJuly2010.aspx
http://littlegrandmother.net/Photos.aspx


There's also a set of quotes trying to equate the "tribe of many colors" concept with the concept carried on by others as "rainbow tribe"...definite questionable sources...

http://littlegrandmother.net/TribeofManyColors.aspx

One's from Ed McGaa (aka Eagle Man).  This is a quote from his book, but being used by the littlegrandmother.net site as somehow tying in to the idea of the tribe of many colors...this quote actually has nothing to do with Crowther or the tribe of many colors yet it talks about answers being in the "the traditional practicing American Indians" once again tying Crowther to NDN imagery...however flawed the source.

"If I were asked what group of people best perceives the natural concept of spiritual imagery in this land, I would answer, "The traditional practicing American Indians."  If I were asked what group best perceives the spiritual imagery of Black Elk, I would answer, "The Rainbow Tribe people I have met across this country and in foreign countries as well."

Ed McGaa--Eagle Man, Oglala Sioux Author & Ceremonial Leader

 from Rainbow Tribe book"


For more info on Ed McGaa there's a thread here about him.
http://www.newagefraud.org/smf/index.php?topic=52.0


Here's also one from Jamie Sams with the same intent (this quote also has nothing to do with the tribe of many colors):


"These Two-legged will be called the Rainbow Tribe, for they are the product of thousands of years of melding among the five original races.  These Children of Earth have been called together to open their hearts and to move beyond the barriers of disconnection.  The medicine they carry is the Whirling Rainbow of Peace, which will mark the union of the five races as ONE.

Jamie Sams, Author & Artist of the Senecca & Cherokee Nation

Other Council Fires Were Here Before Our" (as quoted on the website...incompleteness included)



Jamie Sams also bills herself as a "shaman of Cherokee and Seneca tribes"
http://www.native-americans-online.com/native-american-jamie-sams.html

and also is behind the concept of the very commercially spiritual "Medicine Cards"

http://books.google.com/books?id=PlCZ-TWwRekC&printsec=frontcover&dq=jamie+sams&source=bl&ots=3tqCHHCzeh&sig=YBBo1phWYjbjikFb3yRcmdhJJmk&hl=en&ei=Wg0aTcW9GIK88gaH5ZSzDg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=13&ved=0CE8Q6AEwDA#v=onepage&q&f=false

When reading the pages you come across many factual innacuracies...Sams giving credit for teachings from Iroquois and Seneca "tribes".  For the sake of this comment i'll reiterate that Senecas are a tribe of the Iroquois Confederacy.  Iroquois is not a tribe....for someone claiming to be a Seneca shaman...you'd think she'd know that....so once again...a very questionable source where the littlegrandmother.net site is using an out of text quote from a source that bills themselves as Native American...contradicting the recent statement from Crowther.


So in conclusion..the idea that there will be lawsuits for libel about Crowther's claims at authenticity...one that she now even says was a false claim is laughable.  Especially when those claims are still being misrepresented by Crowther's OWN website.

Superdog


Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: critter - a white non-ndn person on December 28, 2010, 04:59:52 pm
She cannot prove any of the claims she has made, and has no legal leg to stand on regarding "libel" or "slander".. 

I'd love to see her bring a lawsuit.. won't ever happen, because if she did, she'd end up proving herself a fraud.

So..  seriously, the threat of a lawsuit from these people is as phony as KC and what she is selling.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: AlaskaGrl on December 28, 2010, 05:07:50 pm
Lawsuit letters still make my heart jump though.  

Regarding dredging up old website content.. Use the "Internet Way Back Machine."   "Browse through over 150 billion web pages archived from 1996 to a few months ago. To start surfing the Wayback, type in the web address of a site or page where you would like to start, and press enter. Then select from the archived dates available. The resulting pages point to other archived pages at as close a date as possible. Keyword searching is not currently supported."

http://www.archive.org/web/web.php

__________________________________

Letter I sent to the Prophecy Organizers last night.


Greetings  XXXXXXXX/


I am writing you regarding your upcoming "The Prophets Conference" http://greatmystery.org/events/ps2011.html 
and Kiesha Crowthers appearance. http://www.greatmystery.org/nl/ps2011littleg.html
Kiesha does not speak for, nor represent Indigenous peoples.  She has not been given their Medicine ways. 
 
On her page for the Conference she states:
"Kiesha Crowther, also known as "Little Grandmother," was initiated as shaman at age 30 by her mother's tribe (Sioux/Salish),
and has been recognized by the Continental Council of Indigenous Elders as Wisdom Keeper of North America,
responsible for guiding the "Tribe of Many Colors."
Her "Tribe of Many Colors" is not a Federally recognized tribe and there is no "Continental Council of Indigenous Elders."

Native people DO NOT believe it is ethical to charge money for any ceremony or teaching. Any who charge you even a penny are NOT authentic.  Native traditionalists believe the ONLY acceptable way to transmit traditional teachings is orally and face-to-face. Any allegedly traditional teachings in books or on websites are NOT authentic.  Learning medicine ways takes decades and must be done with great caution and patience out of respect for the sacred. Any offer to teach you all you need to know in a weekend seminar or two is wishful thinking at best, fraud at worst.

            I ask that you reconsider Kiesha Crowthers appearance.  I have included an:

Official Statement from Salish Elders Regarding Kiesha Crowther
"The Culture and Elders Committee of the Confederated Salish and Kootenai Tribes of the Flathead Reservation protect the intangible cultural resources of  the tribes including language, songs, stories etc. "No tribal Elders or elders have met with nor do they condone the claims and actions made by Kiesha Crowther.  "She is not their 'shaman', she has no right to claim this title and the Elders and elders of CSKT of the Flathead Reservation would like her to cease and desist immediately from making such false claims that erode the traditions that members of the CSKT Culture and Elders Committee are trying to preserve."The posting of the above statement came with the permission and urging of the Salish elders.  Anyone doubting this message's authenticity can contact the Flathead Reservation.

Here is a Video by an Oglala woman that includes the statement juxtaposed
with Crowther speaking her claims regarding the "Sioux and Salish Tribes," and her Tribe of Many Colors:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=juoD2CdHBAM&feature=player_embedded

Crowther has been backpedaling on her affiliations with Indigeous Tribes  now that she knows Indigenous peoples
are concerned for their Ceremonies being sold.
 
The one legitimate  "Sioux" (Lakota, in this case) Elder Crowther tried to associate herself with does not know her.
People ask how we know this? We called him and asked him:
 http://www.newagefraud.org/smf/index.php?topic=2871.msg25085#msg25085
 
She tried to claim Elders from the Flathead reserve of the Salish people made her a "shaman".
So my friend called them. The Elders Council issued this statement See again:: 
http://www.newagefraud.org/smf/index.php?topic=3055.0
 
"The Culture and Elders Committee of the Confederated Salish and Kootenai Tribes of the Flathead Reservation protect the intangible cultural resources of the tribes including language, songs, stories etc.  "No tribal Elders or elders have met with nor do they condone the claims and actions made by Kiesha Crowther.   "She is not their 'shaman', she has no right to claim this title and the Elders and elders of CSKT of the Flathead Reservation would like her to cease and desist immediately from making such false claims that erode the traditions that members of the CSKT Culture and Elders Committee are trying to preserve."
 
She has claimed Cherokee Elders support her:
http://www.newagefraud.org/smf/index.php?topic=2871.msg25182%3Btopicseen#msg25182
 
"EBC has only a handful of Elders.  I spent last night talking to them on the phone.  They have never heard of Kiesha Crowther.  WolfHawaii knows the people I know, he can call and confirm my findings if he wants.  I called a few elders this morning as well, no knowledge of her."
 
Crowther has also claimed Buddhist Lama's recognized her. They did not:
 Quote from: Lodro on 20 October 2010, 04:28:19
http://www.newagefraud.org/smf/index.php?topic=2871.msg25085#msg25085
 
"I have exchanged a number of emails with Kiesha Crowther, especially focusing on this point: the "recognition" as shaman.
 "It turns out she has spoken with Lakha Lama briefly, while in Sweden. And of course he said kind things to her, which is how Lamas are. If you ask for a blessing you'll receive it. This in no way means "recognition", and in general, a Tibetan Lama would never "recognize" a shaman.
I've pointed out to Crowther that she willfully confuses people with her use of the word "recognition", as that is - in Tibetan usage - reserved for recognition as a "tulku" ie a teacher who influences his or her own rebirth in order to continue the link with students and the lineage.
 
"I am sure (but I have yet to receive confirmation from Lakha Lama to whom I've written) that there is no endorsement here, only kind words and a blessing like anyone may receive from a compassionate teacher.
 
"However, in her communication with me, Crowther first claims that she does not take teachings from Tibetan Lamas, then goes on to say that they are somehow connected with the council of indigenous elders. But apart from Lakha Lama, whom she names, she doesn't give any names, so I doubt the existence of these teachers in connection with her."
 
In recent statements, Crowther has changed her story. She is now claiming she was trained and "made Shaman" by only two Native people, who again, no one has heard of. One she claims was named "Falling Feathers";  as we've seen over and over with these frauds, we are also told this person recently passed on. The other one we are told is named "Lota". So far there is no evidence of the existence of this person, either.
http://www.newagefraud.org/smf/index.php?topic=2871.msg26227%3Btopicseen#msg26227
 
"Crowther's assistant and longtime friend Jennifer sent a message to one of the members here. In it, Jennifer makes some new claims:
 "Supposedly they now admit Crowther was NOT recognized by either Salish nor "Sioux" councils of elders. Jennifer in fact admits that Salish elders specifically do NOT recognize Crowther."
 
"To say that Jennifer's claims are confused is putting it mildly. She refers throughout her message to the 'governor' of the
tribe and the 'Confederated Sioux and Salish'. Neither of those exist.
 
"At one point in the message, she claims that Falling Feathers was an elder, at another point a member of the 'governing council', at another point she admits she doesn't know what he was. (Then why the heck should anyone listen to what FF had to say? He could simply have been a confused elderly man.)
 
"I've looked at the Flathead site and see no mention of a council member recently passing."
 Crowther made reference to a Lota ("Lootah") in at least one of her videos, but it looks like this story was also different before she realized Native people were listening:   http://www.newagefraud.org/smf/index.php?topic=2871.msg25676#msg25676
 
"Kiesha relates her alleged lineage here:
(starting at 6:11 minutes:seconds into the video)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ElesjTYmlc&feature=related
 
'I am great grand daughter of Ciqala Lootah(?) and Ciqala Jensen.' "
 
A respected Lakota woman who lives with her people and speaks her language responds:
 http://www.newagefraud.org/smf/index.php?topic=2871.msg25717#msg25717
 "Lootha is not a Lakota word"
?

Please reconsider having Kiesha Crowther at your event as she does not represent Native People and
Federally recognized tribes or their Elders.   Please do the research, follow the links and ask questions of her
and her handlers/backers.   What is being done is for money....   Do not Pay to Pray.  Ceremonies are not bought or sold
or given in Seminars.

Thank you for your time and attention.


XXX Closure.. 
 


Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: ShadowDancer on December 28, 2010, 06:15:14 pm

-------------------Their reply that I received today (12/28/2010)---------------------------

RE: Little Grandmother?
 12/27/10
 Little Grandmother Admin Little Grandmother Adminbeautyawakens@gmail.com
 
From: Little Grandmother Admin (beautyawakens@gmail.com)
Sent: Mon 12/27/10 8:28 PM
To:  xxxxxxx@hotmail.com
 
Kiesha will gladly step away from a Native American- specific framework in order to respect tribal protocols, preserve her integrity from being attacked, and to preserve harmony around the sacred work she has come here to do at this time as shaman of the “tribe of many colors”. She will not deny the facts of her heritage and how her initiation came about—and that she is being guided by ancestors who are indeed Native American, as well as spirit guides from the South American peoples.


A couple questions for those of LG's followers who are reading this site by lurking.

When will she step away?  When will she not deny the facts that she is not of NDN heritage?
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Superdog on December 28, 2010, 06:27:35 pm
The prophets conference website has the exact same bio info as on the littlegrandmother.net site that contradicts her recent statement "regarding Native American issues" as well

http://www.greatmystery.org/nl/ps2011littleg.html

"Kiesha Crowther, also known as "Little Grandmother," was initiated as shaman at age 30 by her mother's tribe (Sioux/Salish), and has been recognized by the Continental Council of Indigenous Elders as Wisdom Keeper of North America, responsible for guiding the "Tribe of Many Colors.""

"“Becoming shaman was a total surprise to me, when I was called to be shaman for the Sioux and Salish tribes I was scared and almost turned the calling down because of the responsibility and huge commitment it would take"

It's a copy and paste of articles directly from the littlegrandmother.net site.

and this page describing one of her workshops using the picture in the buckskin holding a crystal....

http://greatmystery.org/events/workshop/ps2011grandmother.html

and this one...another copy and past from the littlegrandmother.net site still including the references to her being "made a shaman for the Sioux/Salish tribes"

http://greatmystery.org/events/ps2011faculty.html

"Kiesha Crowther, also known as "Little Grandmother," was initiated as shaman at age 30 by her mother's tribe (Sioux/Salish), and has been recognized by the Continental Council of Indigenous Elders as Wisdom Keeper of North American, responsible for guiding the "Tribe of Many Colors.""

"Little Grandmother will share about her own extraordinary journey, from being a young girl living in a rural religious farming community to being recognized as a shaman by her mother’s tribe at age 30. "

Cost for attending her workshop as a conference attendee $85
For attending as a non-conference attendee $105
For the whole prophets conference $295.  
Cost to attend online $139.
These prices are consistent with every presenter and cannot be attributed to prices asked for by Crowther.

The cancellation policy is pretty harsh, no refunds...so buyer beware.

"Cancellation Policy:

# If cancellation is necessary, no refund will be made, however, you may:
#     a) transfer your conference registration to a future Prophets Conference program
#     b) transfer your conference registration to another person
# send cancellation notice to The Prophets Conference"

The cost of the conference DOES NOT include the price of lodging at the resort.  These prices add on another $195 per night not to mention the cost of travelling there.

So it seems the whole conference is gonna be filled only with people who can afford their "teachings".  They also seem to need to require more of themselves when vetting potential presenters per their FAQ quoted above by critter as potential "experts"

Superdog

Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Spandex~Atom on December 28, 2010, 08:03:28 pm
We would like to state, unequivocally, that Kiesha is currently recognized as shaman by the Continental Council of Indigenous Elders, whose members come from indigenous tribes all over the world led by Don Alejandro Oxlaj.......


Is this true?
It sounds like they are either saying that indiginous tribes all over the world are led by Don Alejandro Oxlaj, or that he leads the Continental Council of Indigenous Elders. I find the wording a bit confusing.

If they are saying that he leads the Continental Council of Indigenous Elders, is there proof that he does?
I can't find any proof.

This is his website:
http://www.shiftoftheages.com/
where it says:
"...The National Mayan Council of Indigenous Elders in Guatemala has an important message for the world. Their leader, Grandfather Cirilo,...."

Is that the same organisation as the Continental Council of Indigenous Elders?
It doesn't sound the same to me.

I can't find any mention of the so called 'Continental Council of Indigenous Elders' anywhere on his site. Would he have just neglected to mention it, or not include that info for some reason?

There are alot of posts and places which just repeat the same line which is copied from Kiesha's information, but that's a bit 'circular' as far as proof goes imo.

The ICA site:
http://www.ica8.org/pages/Mayan_Pilrimage.shtml
gives this info:
"Don Alejandro Cirilo Perez Oxlaj is the head of the National Mayan Council of Elders of Guatemala, Day Keeper of the Mayan Calendar, a 13th generation Quiche Mayan High Priest, a Grand Elder of the Continental Council of Elders & Spiritual Guides of the Americas, and an international lecturer on Mayan Culture."


This doesn't mean he is a member of a group called the  'Continental Council of Indigenous Elders' does it?...., or that he leads it. So where is this information coming from?

The title of a council defines the council as something different from a differently titled council, or else all sort of confusion breaks out.

He may have attended a gathering of something called 'Continental Council of Indigenous Elders' arranged by Adam Yellowbird DeArmon, but where is the proof he actually considers himself a member in his own words?
I would have thought there would be some mention of it from himself.

It's all so confusing!



Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: AlaskaGrl on December 28, 2010, 09:07:06 pm
""Is this true?
It sounds like they are either saying that indiginous tribes all over the world are led by Don Alejandro Oxlaj, or that he leads the Continental Council of Indigenous Elders. I find the wording a bit confusing.""""


It's all part of smoke and mirrors to baffle and confuse, they all do it.  In my letter to the
organizers I stated that her tribe is not Federally recognized and there is not real Continental Congress!   I'm still
waiting on my Libel letter too.   


Lindaa aka -  Rolls Eyes Often
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: AppGal330 on December 28, 2010, 09:19:58 pm
"I can't find any mention of the so called 'Continental Council of Indigenous Elders' anywhere on his site. Would he have just neglected to mention it, or not include that info for some reason?

There are alot of posts and places which just repeat the same line which is copied from Kiesha's information, but that's a bit 'circular' as far as proof goes imo."
=================



I can't find anything that is definetively about the Continental Council of Indigenous Elders ANYWHERE....Except as you
say either on KC's site or someone's site that's in cahoots with her.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: AlaskaGrl on December 28, 2010, 09:35:09 pm
Whatever it was is appears to be part of the "Institute for Cultural Awareness" what a name....
see    http://www.soundstrue.com/mysteryof2012/?tag=continental-council-of-indigenous-elders
and was in 2009



Lindaa
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Superdog on December 28, 2010, 11:22:43 pm
Ok, we can at least put together a much more real picture of the Council of Continental Elders.  Just as educated alluded to, there's a bit of a mistranslation of that particular title, it's not completely off, but not completely correct either....just seems to have mainstreamed among them or among people that have anything to do with Adam DeArmon's Institute for Cultural Awareness. 

So here we go.  Following Spiral Walks link I came on the same info.:

http://www.soundstrue.com/mysteryof2012/?tag=continental-council-of-indigenous-elders

"Return of the Ancestors: Global Wisdom Keepers Coming to Northern Arizona
(April 18-28, 2009)
Friday, April 3rd, 2009

The Institute for Cultural Awareness presents a historic International multicultural gathering and sacred pilgrimage welcoming Indigenous elders and future wisdom keepers representing the voice of Mother Earth, beginning Earth Day weekend, April 18-28, 2009 throughout Northern Arizona.

The heart of the gathering will be the 4th reunion of the Continental Council of Indigenous Elders and Spiritual Guides of the Americas. The intention is to unite and share the invited wisdom keeper’s visions and prophesized ceremonies for peace and harmony for Mother Earth and all humanity."
--------

You can see here there's a much longer title...."Continental Council of Indigenous Elders and Spiritual Guides of the Americas."  It's their 4th gathering.  The other three gatherings are explained by following the "Institute for Cultural Awareness" link in the text on that page....and they have everything to do with Don Alejandro (for anyone reading...understand I am not saying anything derogatory about him..in fact, I have a lot of respect for him and I find it a shame that some of the people he's coming in contact with here are using him as a means to establish legitimacy as Crowther and DeArmon do...which is completely unfair to Don Alejandro).

So onto the "Institute for Cultural Awareness" link.  It contains a more detailed description of the history of the first three gatherings. 

Its in a written message from Don Alejandro and reads:

http://www.soundstrue.com/mysteryof2012/?p=842

"Message from Mayan Elder Don Alejandro Cirilo Perez Oxlaj

It is my greatest pleasure to know that 8, almost 9 years later the next Gathering of Indigenous Elders is about to take place in Arizona. Based on the Mayan Prophecies, several years ago, I had the vision to do these gatherings; and so, in 1995, with the help of Creator, I organized the First of these gatherings here in Guatemala, in the Center, the Land of the Quetzal. Like our Mayan Prophecy says: “Those of the Center may unite the Eagle of the North with the Condor of the South, we will meet, for we are one like the fingers of the hand.” Two years later, in 1997, the Second gathering of Indigenous Elders was held in South America, Bogota and the Amazon jungle in Colombia, the Land of the Condor. Two years later, in 1999, the Third one in North America, New Mexico, USA, the land of the Eagle. We joined Americas!

After the Third gathering, the Sacred Staff that had helped us join the three Americas was gone and the gatherings stopped. Eight years of stagnation followed. But now the Sacred Staff is back, the movement has returned. Now we want to reach all corners of the world. All those who come to participate in this gathering will be Messengers of the Prophecies, Messengers of Peace, Warriors to save our Mother Earth and all those who inhabit her: brother animals, trees, all living beings and the world of the stone people. Together we can do it. Together we can bring peace."

---------------------------

So the "Continental Council of Indigenous Elders" is in reality Don Alejandro's "Gathering of Indigenous Elders".  It's not necessarily a council although they could be thought of as one. 

The Return of the Ancestors gathering that the Institute for Cultural Awareness put on last year included, as just a part of the whole thing, the 4th Gathering of Indigenous Elders...or in the other ICA's/Crowther et al's terminology....the 4th meeting of the Continental Council of Indigenous Elders.  It's one in the same.

The ICA is Adam Dearmon's institute...the Return of the Ancestors link includes welcome messages from Don Alejandro as well as Drunvalo, Kiesha defends them all in her written statements.  The pieces all fit.

So her "recognition" as a shaman by the Continental Council of Indigenous elders becomes more dubious as the council, does not have the authority to speak for all indigenous peoples as a "council".  They gather as individuals with a strong admirable communal spiritual purpose, but just because someone who believes in their work is presented to them AS a shaman and these people believe it...is not any sort of real recognition.  Especially if they've been lied to in the first place.  I would venture her idea of "recognition" by them is a much romanticized version of reality just as the "selection by the elders at 8 years old" story was romanticized as well.

Superdog


Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: AlaskaGrl on December 29, 2010, 02:18:00 am

Searching backwards online I found this snippet from June 29, 2010
http://www.worldpuja.org/archives/2010-06-29_b/

"""""Recently at the age of 30, Little Grandmother was made Shaman-Wisdom Keeper
by the Sioux and Salish tribal grandmothers -- a great honor. """""


""""Growing up with a profound love and respect for all creatures, Little Grandmother went on to achieve her degree in Animal Science and has worked as a wildlife specialist/rehabilitator for many years. She also established a non-profit organization called the SLV Wildlife & Endangered Species Rescue Center to insure a safe haven and protective environment for those animals who need rescue from either neglect or injury by protecting, saving, rehabilitating and preserving wildlife."""""

 
http://www.manta.com/c/mm8pc3r/slv-wildlife-endangered-species-rescue-center

""Slv Wildlife & Endangered Species Rescue Center is a private company categorized under Humane Societies and located in Sanford, CO.    Our records show it was established in and incorporated in Colorado.    Current estimates show this company has an annual revenue of 100,000 and employs a staff of approximately 3.""""  scroll down for further Data.

Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Smart Mule on December 29, 2010, 02:45:43 am
If you go to the Colorado dept of wildlife and look at their list of rehab facilities, Crowthers is not listed. If you go to the Colorado secretary of states website she has never filed required information or responded to attempts of contact since the business was incorporated.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: nemesis on December 29, 2010, 09:22:08 am
If you go to the Colorado dept of wildlife and look at their list of rehab facilities, Crowthers is not listed. If you go to the Colorado secretary of states website she has never filed required information or responded to attempts of contact since the business was incorporated.

Good work sky

I find this unsurprising and would be very interested to know more about this wildlife rehabilitation centre as there is a long and ignoble history of such organisations being used as a cover for businesses where making money via paying visitors is of significantly higher  priority than wildlife conservation and in one notable case that I'm aware of as a cover to trade in endangered species illegally.

I'm sure that some here will be familiar with the Temple of Isis ocelot trafficking scandal, but here is a link for those that are unfamiliar with the case.

http://www.inhumane.org/data/TempleofIsis.htm

Link to the Temple of Isis in California
http://www.isisoasis.org/

To my knowledge the Temple of Isis and LG have no connection but I would be extremely interested to know more about LG's wildlife rehabilitation centre, if is actually ever existed.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: WineHippie on December 29, 2010, 01:19:54 pm
"Very recently, Kiesha called the tribal council office to inquire about her official standing in the tribe. She was told that Falling Feathers had not acted with the permission of the tribal council—therefore she was not recognized officially by the tribe. You can imagine how shocked and dismayed she was to find this out."
Is there a URL for the source quoted here ?


revealer, i copied this bit from her "urgent message" on the tribe of many colors website ...
her info/content is being edited a lot lately and this timestamp is as of this morning:
published, December 26, 2010 - revised December 28, 2010
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: AlaskaGrl on December 29, 2010, 04:44:18 pm
If you go to the Colorado dept of wildlife and look at their list of rehab facilities, Crowthers is not listed. If you go to the Colorado secretary of states website she has never filed required information or responded to attempts of contact since the business was incorporated.

I went to a Colorado site that matches Volunteers up with Rehab Center and they said
RE:   Slv Wildlife & Endangered Species Rescue Center, located in Sanford, CO. ::

""""Have never heard of them. They may have been a wildlife sanctuary -- or someone thinking about forming a sanctuary. Unfortunately, it is not uncommon for people who would like to have such a facility to find that they are unable to do so due to the many requirements. You could check with the Colorado Secretary of State website to see if they are a viable organization. And if they are working with wildlife they would have to maintain a permit with the CO Division of Wildlife or Dept of Ag.""""""

Lindaa
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Twinkie_Slayer on December 29, 2010, 06:22:11 pm
 My irony meter explodeth  :o

Well, just a bit odd I think, since Prophet's Conference has this in it's FAQ:

I only posted number 7 and then 9 because I think they go hand in hand.. if they LOOK or bother to look at KC's bio can't they tell it's "new age BS" and/or just plain BS?  If the people running this Prophets Conference cannot tell that KC's bio is BS then.. they have no business running a prophets conference..

FAQ

7. What makes the presenters experts?

Please see the page of bios for each faculty member. Their education, research, experience, integrity, and knowledge make them experts in their fields. And we conscientiously attempt to only present teachers who continue to explore and expand and search for both subjective and objective truth.

9. Are these 'new age' events?

No, we are not focused on 'New Age' anything. We feel that a good deal of the so-called ‘New Age’ presentations being offered in the ‘New Age’ marketplace are questionable and often designed to enhance the egos of charismatic people and their pocketbooks. These teachings may often become new forms of cultic fundamentalism, presenting dogmatic absolutes and beliefs. We, on the other hand, work to offer the opportunities to explore current topics in science, metaphysics, energy, health, and philosophy, opening to potentials and possibilities that are fluid, flexible, and personal. We look to blend these subjects in ways that are enriching for our lives and for our greater conscious evolution, and that encourage personal responsibility.

 
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: revealer on December 29, 2010, 11:24:45 pm
Well, it's good that Kiesha may be rethinking her approach by taking down the tribeofmanycolors.net site.  By reading through her latest statements I am dubious this is really an awakening. 

Quote
"Recently, Kiesha called the tribal council office to inquire about her official standing in the tribe. She was surprised to hear that Falling Feathers had not acted with the permission of the tribal council and therefore could not necessarily convey tribal authority.

Kiesha had no reason to doubt that her initiation came with full authority and recognition. For that reason and because tribal members were referred to her as shaman in the first year of her initiation, she spoke in her first talks of being made a “shaman for the Sioux and Salish” people."

What?  "not necessarily convey tribal authority".   C'mon.   Did 'Falling Feathers' (registered name please) tell you literately "you are now the shaman for the Sioux and Salish tribes and I am making this declaration with authority of the tribe"?   As far as anyone call tell 'Falling Feathers' either did not exist or is possibly someone unknown to the Salish tribe at all.   (The CSKT statement is very clear.  It does not hem and haw.)

In this, Kieshas latest statement, there is not an apology in any way, no admission that she was wrong, or has misperceived/misunderstood, etc about making the statement 'I was made shaman of the Sioux and Salish tribes'.   People reading her statement could likely conclude that she thinks the original shaman statement is still ok because she was under the impression it was true though offering only anecdote and assumption to substantiate it.   Good grief.  Many people do feel Kiesha overstepped and offended two NDN nations directly and all NDN nations on the continent and everyone else.   Does Kiesha think it's enough just to say she will stop using NDN items?  But she has not apologized for the statement itself.  The lack of an apology is likely to attract attention into the future.

Then can Kiesha honestly wonder why folks who are concerned about her do not appear that they are going to stop trying to get to the truth?  Could it be because they sense a lack of truthfulness, of coming totally clean, being totally honest?  Kiesha, please consider coming totally clean, apologize, come out with the whole thing, real names, etc., and save everyone a lot of time.  You are dealing with the NDN people on their home turf, literally.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: AlaskaGrl on December 30, 2010, 12:08:46 am
""in the first year of her initiation, she spoke in her first talks of being made a “shaman for the Sioux and Salish” people.""""

And it's still on her page of the "Prophets Conference" and on her old You Tubes which need to be pulled and amended.
On the prophets Conference website she states "she was "called to be shaman for the Sioux and Salish tribes"

Lindaa
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Saga on December 30, 2010, 10:55:38 am
""in the first year of her initiation, she spoke in her first talks of being made a “shaman for the Sioux and Salish” people.""""

And it's still on her page of the "Prophets Conference" and on her old You Tubes which need to be pulled and amended.
On the prophets Conference website she states "she was "called to be shaman for the Sioux and Salish tribes"

Lindaa

It is still everywhere.. At the moment I have a feeling that the whole "official message" is just cosmetic and isn't supposed to be read too carefully by the people who "follow" her or to make public in too many places that advertise her. I might be wrong tho, but haven't seen it posted in any Kiesha related place. Maybe because you might start questioning something when you read it, it is in conflict with itself, if not totally going "aww, she is the victim here". :p It basicly says that the man who made her shaman was a "fraud", which would mean that she is a fraud as well, but instead this fake initiation makes her a real shaman. Interesting. I thought I have good imagination, but am not even near this, I usually try to keep some logic in my thoughts. O_o Guess there is a reason why god/goddess/spirit doesn't let sensible people to form cults, it would be way too hard to debunk...

Edit: Oh, now it has been changed at least in here: http://littlegrandmother.net/BIO.aspx
Only speaks about the continental council and shaman initiation at the age of 30... but ofc she still claims to be the "Wisdom Keeper of North American", which has a certain sound in it. :)

Another EDIT:
Plot thickens. Found this: http://www.2012-doomsday-predictions.com/11582/don-alejandro-cirilo-perez-oxlaj-mayan-message/ which seems to be more or less the idea behind the continental council and what Don Alejandro believes he is doing... with "Adam Yellowbird". Who was this Adam Yellowbird again? Except The Institute for Cultural Awareness "founder" or what ever and the man who is behind the Return or the Ancestors thing... And when did he decide that it is ok to mix up all the new age crap into this thing that, as Don Alejandro describes it, sounds quite nice. Since at least for me it sounds like preserving the earth and not wait for ufo's and the "world's end" message here seems to be more related on how we treat the earth and that we should prepare better for catastrophies that sun activity might bring along or something. Only my view on it tho. :)

(3rd EDIT: also found this, only little bit related with the messages of LG, but anyway, neuroscience for kids... http://faculty.washington.edu/chudler/tenper.html )
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: JM on December 30, 2010, 02:54:28 pm
Is this the same "Yellowbird"

USA ~ Make a difference for Lakota Children
Since 1927, St. Joseph's Indian School has provided care and education for Native American boys and girls. St. Joseph's Indian School's stated mission is to provide for the basic welfare of children (food, clothing and medical care) with special emphasis on the spiritual, emotional and educational development of each child, while respecting their culture and heritage

http://www.stjo.org/site/PageServer?pagename=stjo_homepage

The Kiesha thing seems to be part of a huge group, and if you look to the right hand column on this link, its all about donating to some group or to some thing like the above.
The one above is the last one on the list of the column on the right, but worth looking at them all i think.
This is the link, been watching her and others for a while now, i signed up for a while to news letters, she sent one out requesting money to send some Mayan elder on some tour to someplace to fulifll his life path?
http://www.kachina.net/~alunajoy/
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Spandex~Atom on December 30, 2010, 04:16:25 pm
Welcome to the forum :-)



This is a different person.

Adam 'Yellowbird' DeArmon : http://www.earthworksforhumanity.org/Peru_Photos/004.jpg

Monte Yelllow Bird : http://blackpintohorsefinearts.com/LRSC-project/monte-emily.jpg
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Spandex~Atom on December 30, 2010, 04:31:53 pm
.......This is the link, been watching her and others for a while now, i signed up for a while to news letters, she sent one out requesting money to send some Mayan elder on some tour to someplace to fulifll his life path?
http://www.kachina.net/~alunajoy/

Would that be Don Alejandro Cirilo Perez Oxlaj (Wandering Wolf)?

To be blunt, and at the risk of appearing disrespectful, I don't really understand why he is going about things the way he is. He needs to invest in a digital camera with whatever donations he has allready got, and a laptop, or get them for someone who can use them, and stick up his message on youtube. It will reach a wide audience, The concept of producing a movie like he has been trying to do for years, which takes a huge bundle of money, is unnecessary in this day and age. He could have sent a digital video and laptop to many of the other communities with the elders he wants to have in the movie and organised it that way. Anyone who cares about the topic won't mind about the production quality. Maybe his advisors aren't really doing a good job in advising him.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: JM on December 30, 2010, 04:40:26 pm
Thank you, and thanks for the clarification too :)
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Freija on December 30, 2010, 07:32:32 pm
To be blunt, and at the risk of appearing disrespectful, I don't really understand why he is going about things the way he is. He needs to invest in a digital camera with whatever donations he has allready got, and a laptop, or get them for someone who can use them, and stick up his message on youtube.

It might be that he wants the film on filmfestivals, maybe even on TV. In which case he needs a professional productionteam.
With Hollywood going nuts over 2012, they might find an interest in this kind of film.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Defend the Sacred on December 30, 2010, 10:10:27 pm
Adam DeArmon AKA Adam Yellowbird : http://www.newagefraud.org/smf/index.php?topic=1791.0 

A search on the main page will turn up multiple threads where he is mentioned.

What I found on the "council":

http://www.newagefraud.org/smf/index.php?topic=2871.msg24492#msg24492

http://www.newagefraud.org/smf/index.php?topic=2871.msg24494#msg24494
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Spandex~Atom on December 30, 2010, 10:22:41 pm
 The way it is described it's pretty plain that no such Council exists other than as the name of a gathering that is occasionally held by Adam 'Yellowbird' DeArmon et al.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Spandex~Atom on December 30, 2010, 10:32:49 pm
.....The heart of the gathering will be the 4th reunion of the Continental Council of Indigenous Elders and Spiritual Guides of the Americas. The intention is to unite and share the invited wisdom keeper’s visions and prophesized ceremonies for peace and harmony for Mother Earth and all humanity."......

.....So the "Continental Council of Indigenous Elders" is in reality Don Alejandro's "Gathering of Indigenous Elders".  It's not necessarily a council although they could be thought of as one.

The Return of the Ancestors gathering that the Institute for Cultural Awareness put on last year included, as just a part of the whole thing, the 4th Gathering of Indigenous Elders...or in the other ICA's/Crowther et al's terminology....the 4th meeting of the Continental Council of Indigenous Elders.  It's one in the same.

coun·cil
 –noun
1. an assembly of persons summoned or convened for consultation, deliberation, or advice.
2. a body of persons specially designated or selected to act in an advisory, administrative, or legislative capacity:

To me, this looks exactly like what is happening:

First is a gathering where the Indiginous Elders are invited to attend what is described as a council, which is actually a council in the sense of (1) an assembly of persons summoned or convened for consultation, deliberation, or advice. Adam Yellowbird organises these gatherings. They generate an enormous ammount of money, while the visiting elders are treated like sh**.

The meaning of this council/gathering then 'morphs' by the use of semantic conjuring, and is presented in a way that leads people to believe this gathering is a council in the sense of (2) a body of persons specially designated or selected to act in an advisory, administrative, or legislative capacity. I wonder what the Elders who came to the gathering would think if they realised they were now being presented as being members of an official body called The Continental Council of Indiginous Elders?

They would no doubt be unhappy, and this is why, imo, we are not being given their names, and why Kiesha says they have to stay 'under the radar'.

There is no proof this Council exists other than as in the sense of definition (1), when Adam DeArmon manages to raise a hell of alot of money to put on a show.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: revealer on December 31, 2010, 03:45:57 am
I heard an interesting idea today and will pass it along.   People who are concerned about LGs videos may want to send youtube messages to people still hosting videos of LG. 

eddievibes420 has disabled all comments on LG videos presumably due to the widespread negative comments in the wake of the statement from the Salish tribe.

Channels still hosting LG videos (not a complete list, some are playlists)

eddievibes420
LSNMVIDEO
greatpeopleTV
Ashatur
2012livestream
in5d
hoopenliefde26
kiwitina948
MrSon2k
Inaiahawk
NiChen87
lifeisbeautiful1967
frenciej


If you decide to contact these channels on youtube tell them you know that the Salish Tribe has countered LGs claims as to being their shaman and has issued the statement here below (and on other pages in the forum).   Be nice and reasonable.  You would appreciate them removing the LG videos from appearing on youtube at least for the time being.  They can do this easily by marking each video as private.

The original claim:

From LG is on the video titled 04/23/2010 Kiesha Crowther "Little Grandmother": One with Nature 1/8 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Jt3ifzJqBM
at 3:26
"But at age 30 I was called to be the shaman for the Sioux and Salish tribes." - Kiesha Crowther "Little Grandmother"

The claim is also made in this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VocJYC-_u4M
from January 09 2009 -
The Return of The Ancestors - Santa Fe, NM
at 0:06



The Salish tribal response is:

Official Statement from Salish Elders Regarding Kiesha Crowther
 
"The Culture and Elders Committee of the Confederated Salish and Kootenai Tribes of the Flathead Reservation protect the intangible cultural resources of the tribes including language, songs, stories etc.
 
"No tribal Elders or elders have met with nor do they condone the claims and actions made by Kiesha Crowther.
 
"She is not their 'shaman', she has no right to claim this title and the Elders and elders of CSKT of the Flathead Reservation would like her to cease and desist immediately from making such false claims that erode the traditions that members of the CSKT Culture and Elders Committee are trying to preserve."
 
The posting of this statement came with the permission and urging of the Salish elders. Anyone doubting this message's authenticity can contact the Flathead Reservation.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Spandex~Atom on December 31, 2010, 04:17:36 am
...............Kiesha called the tribal council office to inquire about her official standing in the tribe. She was told that Falling Feathers had not acted with the permission of the tribal council—therefore she was not recognized officially by the tribe. You can imagine how shocked and dismayed she was to find this out.
 
Kiesha believed that her initiation was widely recognized in the tribe—this is why she spoke in the first talks she ever gave, as a “shaman for the Sioux and Salish” people........
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: bat_totem on December 31, 2010, 05:01:27 am
I've been watching this thread for a couple of days, having seen Little Grandmother's videos for the first time just two days ago. It felt real at first, and I was had for a while, but an hour into the videos, it became apparent that it wasn't "real". I looked her up and this seemed like the best place to get PROPER information.

I'm sad to say that either a follower or whoever is backing her up, has started using the online underground for spreading the videos.
http://www.freshwap.net/documentaries/461601-little-grandmother-mixed-video-compilation.html (this is a link to a well known pirate site)

This page is linking to files - a several hour compilation (5 hours I believe) of her videos along with an ad for the ICA, asking for money - on various file share websites such as filesonic and hotfile.

I'd also suggest that anyone here who may be in communication with the Salish Elders ask for their official statement to be put online. (Forgive me if it already is and I haven't seen the link here) When people like us try to tell a person that this may be a fraud, the usual response is like what you see on her Facebook page "Take your negativity somewhere else." But if there was an official statement online, we could just link to it and let the truth speak for itself.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: AlaskaGrl on December 31, 2010, 06:17:30 am
Kiesha's  Website (LittleGrandmother.net) is by RNB Media Group.  I followed the RNB link around to a couple other sites managed by RNB.  The first is    "Rainbow Visions"   http://betseylewis.com/COUNCILOF13GRANDMOTHERS.aspx    Where it is stated


"""13 Indigenous Grandmothers

*Please note that Kiesha Crowther aka Little Grandmother, has not been recognized as one of the 13 indigenous Grandmothers.
 
The Thirteen Grandmothers ...
Chosen to represent the world’s indigenous peoples, these grandmothers are a source of great wisdom and blessing, reminding us of deep spiritual truths and calling our attention to what is most important. They work together on healing our planet through prayer, ritual, community and engaged activism on pressing social and environmental concerns.""""

Separate posts concerning the "13 Indigenous Grandmothers" may be found in a search of NAFPS. 
I found it interesting the note on Kiesha, placed at the top of their page. 

 Linda







Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Saga on December 31, 2010, 10:39:45 am
The way it is described it's pretty plain that no such Council exists other than as the name of a gathering that is occasionally held by Adam 'Yellowbird' DeArmon et al.


When it gets complicated, simplify and you'll have the truth... My view in this:
Simply put, I think that the "council" is something put up by DeArmon and maybe Drunvalo to catch big bucks and to gain credibility to it, they use Don Alejandro now as the image of the whole thing. I think, by looking the video I posted earlier (the one where Don Alejandro talks), that he believed that this "Yellowbird" was doing the right thing calling the elders of north and south together and think that the message that is being spread is the message he talks about too and not this new age crap that has been mixed into it.

This view because I still have image that Don Alejandro is more or less grounded, but I haven't watched his stuff much, so I am not sure about it... I still think that he is being used to make big money without seeing much of it himself, might be wrong ofc.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: revealer on December 31, 2010, 01:55:46 pm
Whatever it was is appears to be part of the "Institute for Cultural Awareness" what a name....
see    http://www.soundstrue.com/mysteryof2012/?tag=continental-council-of-indigenous-elders
and was in 2009

Found this link with info on Don Alejandro and Adam Yellowbird, etc.  Am posting here because I did not see it from a search on the site.  Scroll down for info from 2008

http://www.lescarney.com/guatamala.htm
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: ShadowDancer on December 31, 2010, 07:13:42 pm

I'd also suggest that anyone here who may be in communication with the Salish Elders ask for their official statement to be put online. (Forgive me if it already is and I haven't seen the link here) When people like us try to tell a person that this may be a fraud, the usual response is like what you see on her Facebook page "Take your negativity somewhere else." But if there was an official statement online, we could just link to it and let the truth speak for itself.

The statement is included in this video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=juoD2CdHBAM) posted on YouTube.

Also, here is a link (http://www.newagefraud.org/smf/index.php?topic=3055.msg26117#msg26117) directly to the statement as it is posted on this forum.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: revealer on December 31, 2010, 11:25:23 pm
Found this video "2012 Indigenous Elders"   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vIT5N7og0kY

With the Sioux and Salish (recognized tribes) out of her pocket of claimed authenticity it really does look like this video could be one of her main drivers for claiming to be a wisdom keeper and being a part of the Continental Council of Indigenous Elders.  This video was posted in 2009 within days of her original video post to youtube here http://www.youtube.com/littlegrandmother#p/a/u/0/VocJYC-_u4M      ica8 appears to be a marketing arm somehow tied into CCoIE (if that is a separate group at all).  

She then names her own video 'Return of the Ancestors' to further hook into this concept of somehow having something to do with ica8.org or the Council.  It would be good to reach out to Don Alejandro and ask if any kind of conversation ever took place between them.  It is possible he said something in passing based on (believing) Kiesha's original claim of 'Called to be the shaman for the Sioux and Salish tribes'.  Right now it's just Kiesha's word about being a member of this council and being one of the 13 wisdom keepers.  If you look at the list of speakers on the upcoming DVD from ica8 Kiesha is not on the list (http://www.ica8.org/pages/ROTA_Videos/index.shtml).  Her name is not currently on that site at all.  If you do a google search like this  site:ica8.org Kiesha  you get 0 hits.  The only grandmother on that site is 'Grandmother Margarita'.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: dabosijigwokush on January 01, 2011, 03:52:02 pm
a way to let the world know about this fraud
log in to you tube
open her videos
click dislike
click
Would you like to report this video as inappropriate?
got to spam
then fraud/spam
the more that do this then the more the voice we have in the power of voting
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Spandex~Atom on January 01, 2011, 08:18:51 pm


2010 with Shaman, Kiesha Crowther 5/10
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P_3rCfWTiO8&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P_3rCfWTiO8&feature=related)


"...There are many more things that are going to happen in year 2010...

...All of the secrets will be exposed...

...Government cover-ups will be exposed...

...Knowledge of ufo's and higher intelligence, will be exposed...

...Healing possibilities are gonna skyrocket!...

...Psychic phenomena will be proven as a fact and accepted by science worldwide...

...Filthy waters will be cleaned...

...Child labor willl be completely exposed, and destroyed..."


(http://i1115.photobucket.com/albums/k558/SpandexAtom/falseprophet0.png)

(http://i1115.photobucket.com/albums/k558/SpandexAtom/cmicsfee.gif)





Important, please read:

Official Statement from Salish Elders Regarding Kiesha Crowther
(click on link above this quote box to read in full)   
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: critter - a white non-ndn person on January 01, 2011, 09:18:08 pm
Little Fraudmonster

hahahaha ... i just had to say it.   :D

or.. Little Fraudmother..   ;D
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: dabosijigwokush on January 01, 2011, 09:58:47 pm
one of her sponsors

http://www.livingsuccessfully.com/s_index.php

more goof balls there to
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Teacher on January 02, 2011, 01:35:23 am
went to Youtube and "disliked" every video that I could find of hers and reported it as "spam" -- "fraud"... doubt it will change the minds of the supporters, but maybe Youtube will do something about it -- although they didn't when there were other inappropriate and racist videos on.  We'll see.   ::)   Fingers crossed!
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: AlaskaGrl on January 03, 2011, 05:28:17 am
January 02, 2011 article
"Little Grandmother Faces Stiff Challenge" 
via Stevebeckow.com   

http://stevebeckow.com/2011/01/02/little-grandmother-faces-stiff-challenge/


Linda.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Spandex~Atom on January 03, 2011, 02:23:22 pm
Thanks Linda, that's a good find! A good response in the comments too.

Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: critter - a white non-ndn person on January 03, 2011, 02:28:27 pm
I couldn't access it, it says "forbidden".  If it's text can you copy and paste it here?  :)  Thanks.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Freija on January 03, 2011, 03:59:30 pm
I read it this morning. Now you can´t access it....  :-\
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Freija on January 03, 2011, 04:12:19 pm

Review from Kiesha´s presentation in Sweden:
Kiesha says that we are the strongest of the strongest and we are the ones we have been waiting for. There will be no anyone else who will save us. We are going to save ourselves and our planet, by connecting to our hearts and living our lives from our heart. It is the people of Scandinavia who are going to do it first and the rest of the world is going to follow us. And now is the time! The hour has come.

Kiesha:
”In the Nordic countries you are ten steps ahead of the rest of the world, together with the aboriginis and the Mayas. You will help the rest of the world to increase their awareness. The sacred crystal that has been guarded for several hundreds of years will be placed in Sweden on July 9th at 18.00. There are only a handful of those crystals.”
http://www.ettmedlivet.org/kiesha.asp


-----------
Yeyyy for us!  ;D Ten steps ahead of all other countries  ;D  ;D

Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: AlaskaGrl on January 03, 2011, 04:17:00 pm
It appears the whole http://stevebeckow.com/    site is offline.  Pages and sites that disappear are usually accessible via the WayBack Internet machine or the Cache, however the Kiesha article has not been on long enough, - Jan 2 it appeared, for it to be archived.  This is very interesting, don't know what to make of it.  Is it just off line due to server issues etc? or did someone get to them regarding the topic?  Next time I'll just post the whole article I find, I have not seen pages change this fast in a while.  

HOWEVER, I was just looking around and I see that Lightworkers.org has grabbed the text of the article! and placed it on their site.  SO without further adieu, here it is:


http://lightworkers.org/blog/121748/little-grandmother-kisha-fraud
"Little Grandmother Kisha a fraud?"
 2 January 2011 - 9:22pm |  Malpy
I am wondering what do people think of “little grandmother” Kiesha Crowther?
Fake? Fraud and usurper or genuine?
Here is an interesting article on steve and a video:

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
http://stevebeckow.com/2011/01/02/little-grandmother-faces-stiff-challenge
Many people who’ve tried to make a difference on a greater scale than usual face a challenge in their lives. It’s a staple of movies that a person who stands in a leadership position is attacked either on good or not-so-good grounds. Jesus, Buddha, Gandhi — most leaders I can think of had to deal with one of more instances of it.

Now Little Grandmother (Kiesha Crowther) must deal with it. Someone from her native background has posted a video to Youtube called “A Message to Kiesha Crowther and her Followers,” which the poster has renamed “New Age Fraud Appropriating NDN [native Indian] Traditions, Rites, Regalia.”

The video says: “Living in the heart does not mean charging our brothers and sisters US$ 195 to help them find their totem animal.” One rhetorical strategy by those who make allegations against another is to take one action from among many and represent that as what the person in question is about. Here all of Kiesha’s two-day workshop is reduced to finding one’s totem animal.

As proof of this allegation, the purpose of the workshop is cited: “This workshop will present a rare opportunity for participants to receive personal guidance from Little Grandmother regarding their own unique healing color and animal totem, and to participate in transformation sacred circle with a heart-attuned group.”

There is no suggestion that the writer has attended Litttle Grandmother’s workshop, so the allegation is probably being made on the basis of reports of the workshop, including its promotional literature.
The video suggests that “living in the heart means preserving the traditions and culture of the Old Ones.” This is a challenging position to take today because we know that everything old is going to be brought into question in the years ahead. Little Grandmother has taken on the difficult work of bringing an old tradition to bear on the birthing of a new.

Few of our traditions and cultures are going to survive the impact of the events of the next two years. Taking the position of trying to preserve these may not prove the most appropriate response in the times ahead – whether it’s the Catholic Church that’s speaking, or Jewish leaders, Muslims, Hindus, or natives.

The video continues: “It means respecting sacred traditions by not using them with new age ceremonies or for monetary gain and profit.” What Little Grandmother is attempting to do, as far as I can see, is to bring people together using the vehicle of her own native background as one of her tools, the tool that has people listen to her message of unity, harmony and love. Most workshop leaders that I’ve encountered use some vehicle to get people’s attention and deliver their underlying message.

The video then asks where the money from these ceremonies goes? To the tribes that she says she was made shaman over? Notice that the writer assumes that charging money is a for-profit activity, rather than simply paying for the costs of the event and Kiesha’s living expenses. It suggests, not that money should not be charged, but that it should go to the right people — in this case, the tribes. So the money is going to the wrong people, not that no charges should be made.

A voiceover of slightly-menacing character says, “Perhaps you think that the Creator sent you here to dispose of this as you see fit. If I thought that you were sent by the Creator, I might think that you had a right to dispose of me. Do not misunderstand me but understand me fully with reference to my affection for the land. I never said the land was mine to do with as I choose. The one who has a right to dispose of it is the one who has created it. I claim the right to live on my land and accord you the privilege to return to yours.”

I’m not sure how this relates to Little Grandmother’s work, but it seems to be an issue the maker of the video wishes to present.

Meanwhile, as the voice speaks, the video says in text: “Kiesha, these are the Old Ones and they deserve our respect. Their ceremonies were never for sale.” There follow the photos of several imposing figures and tribesmen and women.

Now we hear where the voiceover’s comments come from. It continues, “Brother, we have listened to your talk. Coming from our father, the Great White Chief in Washington, and my people have called upon me to reply.” So Kiesha is being somehow associated with the takeover of native lands by the white man, a sorry chapter in our history, no doubt (among many sorry chapters), and one that, as I understand it, will be addressed in the coming years, as it should be.

Kiesha herself is then shown saying, “Then at age 30, I was called to be the shaman for the Sioux and Salish tribes and to start my own tribe, which would be called the tribe of many colors.” She may have mis-spoke herself there. She may have meant “a shaman from the Sioux and Salish tribe.” She may have been trying to make it as simple as possible for white people to understand. She may even have not understood her position completely because she came from a mixed background, if I remember her other talks correctly, native and white.

Evidently the matter has been discussed in native circles because a “cease and desist” request then plays on the screen:

“December 18, 2010.

“The Culture and Elders Committee of the Confederated Salish and Kootenai Tribes of the Flathead Reservation protect the intangible cultural resources of the tribes including language, songs, stories, etc.

“No tribal Elders or elders have met with nor do they condone the claims and actions made by Kiesha Crowther.

“She is not their ‘shaman,’ she has no right to claim this title and the Elders and elders of the CSKT of the Flathead Reservation would like her to cease and desist immediately from making such false claims that erode the traditions that members of the CSKT Culture and Elders Committee are trying to preserve.”

So there you have it. Little Grandmother has encountered resistance in her work. Many people when they start out on their “mission” — and I mean the word as we use it here, as self-chosen work, and not as something somehow bestowed on us by God – make mistakes in how they discuss it, mistakes they live to regret. But these mistakles are not fatal, if the other side is sincere and not devious.

Prior to encountering resistance, they can make statements that may not prove to be well-founded, or well-thought-out, or as formal as may be required, etc. Little Grandmother is now being brought to task for statements she may have made that have irritated and angered others.

The maker of the video then adds: “Kiesha,” — notice the rhetorical device of refusing to use the name “Little Grandmother” bestowed on Kiesha by her mentors — “our ceremonies and traditions are sacred to us. They have no price tag. Our brothers and sisters should not pay to pray.”

“Kiesha, without permission you have taken sacred traditions and rites, and merged them with your new age beliefs. You are charging people to learn false traditions.

“You are telling people that you were made a ‘shaman’ over the ‘Sioux and Salish’ tribes.

“But they do not know you.

“The ceremony is not for sale.”

The music in the background says, “You don’t stand a chance against my love.”

So there you have it. Little Grandmother, in attempting to reach out to a world in transition and transformation, coming from a background where she was not strictly raised by solely-native parents, accepting a commission for which she was trained but, as I understand it, not necessarily understanding all the circumstances, politics, issues, etc., has encountered her first stiff resistance.

She can now see if she can win over those who oppose her. Or she can drop all native elements and just go forward on her own say-so, which I’m sure her admirers will accept. Or she can tough it out and face whatever comes her way, not probably the wisest course of action.

Hers is not an enviable position, but it’s also faced by many people who accept a challenge given them or walk a new path or appeal to a wider audience. The challenge could be the end of her work or it could be the occasion for a tremendous breakthrough, for everyone concerned – Kiesha, the confederated tribes, us, the world. All presently hangs in the balance.

This is not something shameful, regrettable, outrageous, etc. This is just the conflict that rises in life all the time, conflict that we have seen all over the world. In some cases, the issues are sound and just; in some cases, not. In some cases, the outcome is negotiated; in some cases, legislated; in others, litigated, etc. Some cases are resolved; some are never resolved.

It does offer us a glimpse into what we may be seeing a lot more of in the near future as so many people’s established cultures and religions are brought into question.

I don’t envy Little Grandmother having to face this resistance. But, if she can access her heart and appeal transparently to what unites people, if she can hear the complaints completely and address them fairly, she may be able to overcome it.

Speaking as a white person (is that not what I “am” in this situation? One of the many things I am), I can say that I appreciate the work of Little Grandmother, that I see her as a force for peace and reconciliation in the world and a force that invites understanding of the native point of view, as well as she is able to express it, that I will miss her influence if she is defeated by these initiatives, and that the world may be lesser for the loss of her. I also appreciate the apprehensions of the confederated tribes of the Flathead Reservation and hope that something can be worked out.

We can expect to see dramas like this acted out all over the world as new initiatives are born. They will probably follow the same general pattern as this one, as I have described it. All of us, I think, have seen in our own lives what happens to those who step outside the box and accept the incredible circumstances that then face us.

So I wish Little Grandmother and the representatives of the tribes in question much success in resolving their disagreement and bringing into the outworking of the coming years all the influence of the people which they both claim to derive from and, in some way, represent. The eyes of the world will be upon you, weighing every action. Please, avoid the rhetoric and the posturing and make us proud.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~`

http://stevebeckow.com/2011/01/02/little-grandmother-faces-stiff-challenge

____________

Lindaa
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: goozih on January 03, 2011, 04:23:05 pm
looks like steve Beckow is back up and running
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: AlaskaGrl on January 03, 2011, 04:26:45 pm
looks like steve Beckow is back up and running


I can't access it.... still am "Forbidden"  if you can see it, is the article there still?
Would be on the right hand side of the page in the list.

Linda.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Freija on January 03, 2011, 04:39:05 pm
More info on the crystal that was buried in Sweden:
http://www.guld-kristall.se/kiesha-crowther-stockholm-29-juni/

Our powerful crystal, found in the ice of the North Pole, kept by the Inuit tribes for hundreds of years, waiting for Little Grandmother to place into Mother Earth at this time, to realign (create new?) meridians of our Earth … We are honored to be part of this and bow our foreheads to the ground and dance in utter joy and celebration – yeeha!

So the Inuits provided the crystal..... :-\
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Smart Mule on January 03, 2011, 04:53:53 pm
More info on the crystal that was buried in Sweden:
http://www.guld-kristall.se/kiesha-crowther-stockholm-29-juni/

Our powerful crystal, found in the ice of the North Pole, kept by the Inuit tribes for hundreds of years, waiting for Little Grandmother to place into Mother Earth at this time, to realign (create new?) meridians of our Earth … We are honored to be part of this and bow our foreheads to the ground and dance in utter joy and celebration – yeeha!

So the Inuits provided the crystal..... :-\

Wow, looking at the first picture of the crystal found in the ice of the north pole and there's absolutely no weathering what so ever? Huh. And the second pic showing the base of the crystal, amazing how the cut across the base is so very perfect for something occurring naturally in nature.  Again, huh.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: AlaskaGrl on January 03, 2011, 05:07:23 pm
http://www.itk.ca/national-inuit-leader-mary-simon-president-itk

National Inuit Leader Mary Simon, President of ITK
Mary Simon is the President of Inuit Tapiriit Kanatami (ITK), the national organization representing Inuit from Nunavut, Nunavik in Northern Quebec, Nunatsiavut in Labrador and the Inuvialuit region of the Northwest Territories.

I guess we contact the Inuits for a statement? 

Lindaa
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: dabosijigwokush on January 03, 2011, 05:19:29 pm
you to can buy a Shamanic crystal and start your own cult

http://mysticmerchant.com/quartzhuge/
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: AlaskaGrl on January 03, 2011, 05:28:32 pm
LOL  Truly overpriced stuff.  I go to the local rock and mineral shows for minerals and crystals or eBay.  My Nieces son is interested in Geology. 
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Spandex~Atom on January 03, 2011, 05:32:32 pm
I just took the page screenshot.

http://stevebeckow.com/2011/01/02/little-grandmother-faces-stiff-challenge/
Here are some of the comments so far:



 The video is accompanied by the following text:

shadowfax1920 | December 20, 2010 | 68 likes, 3 dislikes

**JAN 1** Check out my new video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nbhQ-3…
For more information continue reading below! Thanks.

**DEC 30**
I have several things to address today:

Kiesha stated that she was going to step away from native traditions, however a recent advertisement of her in fake regalia has recently put on the internet:

http://www.greatmystery.org/nl/ps2011…
“Kiesha Crowther, also known as “Little Grandmother,” was initiated as shaman at age 30 by her mother’s tribe (Sioux/Salish)”

Kiesha is still appropriating NDN regalia and using NDN’s in general to sell her new age ceremonies.

Every day, Kiesha changes the information on her bio. The story about how she was made a shaman is constantly changed and more is added in as this ordeal goes along:

From: http://littlegrandmother.net/NEWURGEN…

“Falling Feathers personally guided Kiesha’s initiation and taught her how to conduct ceremony, how to pray in traditional ways with the chanupa, how to pray while in inipi and he conferred upon her the name “Little Grandmother”.”

This part about teaching her the Inipi and how to smoke the Chanupa is brand new. And I’m only guessing this was added in so that she can give herself permission to go ahead and use them.

“Recently, Kiesha called the tribal council office to inquire about her official standing in the tribe. She was surprised to hear that Falling Feathers had not acted with the permission of the tribal council and therefore could not necessarily convey tribal authority.”

Falling Feathers is Salish according to Kiesha. I’m curious as to why a Salish elder was teaching her how to perform one of the Lakota’s seven sacred rites, the Sacred Chanupa, given to the people from White Buffalo Calf Woman.

What else does not make sense in this story:

“For example, this past year, when one elderly woman on the Flathead Reservation died at the hospital and no family could be located, Kiesha was called. Her name was given by an official as a recognized spiritual representative of the tribe. Though she was not raised on the reservation, Kiesha had every reason to accept and believe her status as “shaman” came with tribal recognition.”

If Kiesha called the tribal office and was told they don’t recognize her, then why did they call her to the reservation when someone passed away and the family could not be located? The Salish and Kootenai tribe have already stated they not only do not recognize Kiesha as their shaman, they have said the do not know her. Period.

Below are two sources where Kiesha’s story is that she was initiated as shaman by “sioux salish tribal grandmothers”. But before you go there, please allow me to take a moment to address the fact that Kiesha dresses in jeans and slacks. If she were truly directed by an elder or grandmothers, she would have been taught that one conducts ceremony in traditional skirt.

Who initiated Kiesha as shaman? She says it is falling feathers, but on another website back dated June 29, 2010 she states it was by “Sioux and Salish tribal grandmothers” http://www.worldpuja.org/archives/201… If you look here, it’s the same information on another site. http://www.blogtalkradio.com/rainbowv… Apparently last summer, Kiesha was saying it was tribal grandmothers of Salish and Sioux peoples. If it was not falling feathers that made her a shaman, who are these grandmothers and how can we contact them?

DEC 29 Kiesha writes on her website that the elders on the Salish and Kootenai reservation called her when someone had died, because Kiesha is important and the elders could not contact the deceased’ family. Kiesha please explain to me why is it that the elders contacted you to come to the reservation because they see you as someone important to the tribe, yet at the same time you claim that you called the tribal council and they said they don’t recognize you as their shaman. This story does not make sense at all. When people call up to the Salish and Kootenai reservation, they are told that they don’t know who you are.

DEC? 28 Kiesha states she will now step away from using any regalia, pipes, bags, and will not use Native American traditional rites in her ceremonies. We intend to hold Kiesha to this. She still claims she was made a shaman by someone called falling feathers. No one knows who this is. Kiesha is still intent on hiding who her mother is,that supposedly lives in the Flathead res. Kiesha, real medicine teachers do not hide their lineage. If anyone has questions please call the reservation.

Please check out THE FIRST NATIONS!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5_kbNz…
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from ? Human Rights, Indigenous Peoples, Native Spirituality, New Paradigm, Spirituality, Unitive Consciousness, Wayshowers, We'll Find Our Way Home
10 Responses leave one ?

   1.
      Angel permalink
      January 2, 2011

      I have heard about the controversy regarding Little Grandmother. In my humble opinion, her message is what counts, and the messages are heartfelt, peaceful, uplifting, and with love. :)
      Log in to Reply
   2.
      Movebreathe permalink
      January 2, 2011

      The philosophy that no one should charge money for presenting their workshops that impart spiritual teachings would leave this world bereft of inspired leadership at a time when it needs it most.

      Even Native Americans would trade for what they needed. Their currency used to be beaver, bear or buffalo hides or other things they made that they then traded for what they needed that others had hunted or made. In our modern world, money is universally used as a medium for trade – it is easier to carry around that bundles of hides or other goods for trade. Granted, we all know there are many flaws in the monetary system as it is currently used. But it is still a form of energy we trade for what we need, from the grocery store, the gas station, or any workshop we choose to attend.

      $195 per person is a very reasonable amount to charge for a workshop, far more reasonable than many who offer spiritual and personal growth teachings for fees. Once the venue rent is paid, the power bill is paid, and other costs associated with the presentation are paid, a portion may be left to the presenter, which I feel they are more than justified in keeping to take care of their day to day needs for food, clothing and shelter. Without charging, such a person presenting their teachings “for free” would soon have to cave in to the need to work for wages to provide their necessities of living and would have little time left over to offer their message to the world.

      There is little need in this world for hides or beads or things fashioned by hand for trade. I cannot use such things to pay my rent, nor buy my food. For that, at this time, I need money. So to trade money to a teacher to help support them in getting their message out seems one of the best things I can do with my money. The teacher must be balance what they ask for, making it a fair amount that allows as many people to attend as possible with what is needed to put on the event for venue and other associated costs, leaving them with something to keep their lives going. However, those teachers that ask astronomical $$$ rates for their events, far over and above the balance between paying for venue, etc. and their own costs of living… I seriously would doubt that for such a price, they would have anything of value to offer me.
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   3.
      Serina777 permalink
      January 2, 2011

      Whoever wrote this video, is in fear. Whatever he/they have against Kiesha is not out of a state of love.
      She is a strong woman and she will know how to act for the better. Noone will ever be able to take her inner core. It doesn’t matter which name she carries. She is a wisdom-keeper and she can be proud of who she really is.
      Kiesha, we love you!
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   4.
      karljenn permalink
      January 2, 2011

      We must be very careful to believe everything that we hear about people we feel are of the light at this time. I’ve recently through some reflection and recent reading on friendly web sites such as this one come to greatly appreciate the power of TPTB to turn us on our own. Discernment is simple to say but more difficult to use. Over on Project Avalon Bill Ryan has just released an interview that he had with an insider of TPTB who claims he is helping Bill but I really have trouble with this insiders motives. I trust he is who he claims, I trust that he is dangerourous and I believe a lot of the information he states to be mostly true. However I strongly believe he’s playing a Trojan horse of sorts. The key part of that conversation that I took away was that TPTB are more apt to discredit someone if they are too close to the truth. I wouldn’t recommend watching this video interview if you struggle to stay in the light. It affected be negatively for a day or two but I’ve regrounded since watching it. A lot of the information is not new but it’s the way it brings items together. Bill feels it’s disclosure taking place and I’d partially agree however Bill doesn’t buy into the benevolent ET beliefs we share here. Since reflecting I’ve strengthened my views that the light will prevail and the dark shall lose their stranglehold on us.

      In summary Kiesha presents a good vision that seems to be from the heart. I totally disagree with the argument against her making money or anyone else. The reality is we all need money to live.
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   5.
      Skycatcher permalink
      January 2, 2011

      I know little about Little Grandmother or her work. But in my former spiritual path of some years ago, which was centered on Native American spiritual belief and practice, I saw similiar resistance arise to some of my teachers of non-native or mixed Native heritage. I also experienced some strong, manipulative negativity from two native spiritual teachers/leaders that counteracted the “good” messages they were purporting to convey. (I should note that most of the Native teachers I encountered were good, heart-centered people whose teachings promoted unity, not disharmony.) I bring this up because, based on the tone of the person’s allegations against Kiesha, I get a similar sense that they originate from one who wants to stir things up in a way that promotes anger, blame, and misunderstanding, rather than air and resolve a legitimate concern in an honest and forthright way that brings about healing. I think your advice to Kiesha for addressing the resistance is spot on: “…if she can access her heart and appeal transparently to what unites people, if she can hear the complaints completely and address them fairly, she may be able to overcome it.”
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   6.
      malpy permalink
      January 2, 2011

      thank you for honest answer!
      I have also watched Bill Ryan and “Charles” yesterday. very good indeed. Charles also says that the “RULES OF THE WORLD” do like us to follow Alternative people who take us in the wrong direction, that that kind of thing makes them happy and laugh at us.
      I am also of the opinion that Ascension, spirituality should not depend on the amount of money one has in one’s bank account! lol
      It was never meant to be. This goes in the lines of what the Egyptians priests have started in Ancient Egypt in Akenaton and Nefertiti’s time , in Atlantis also i would guess..?

      I thought that Drunvalo is speaking for the native american tribes?
      I am not sure that using the native american’s good name, and charge and using New Age as an opportunity to make money is the way to go. Specially if one puts lots of money, that they cannot afford, thinking that they will ascend, and in the end they find out that they have been deceived perhaps too late.
      I am not sure who to believe really in this matter, she never stoke me as entirely genuine, although her message is good, it always seemed to me that she put together stuff she heard and read on youtube and on the internet.
      I do not judge her, I just wonder what are her motivations?
      I just know that deceit is only used by the dark ones portraying the light!

      But i could be wrong here.
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   7.
      malpy permalink
      January 2, 2011

      How can she say: “I AM THAT I AM” and lie to all about who she is? It is just beyond me? Why can she just not speak for herself?
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   8.
      killerwail permalink
      January 2, 2011

      Here is a link to hopi prophecy, and read the eighth sign. I like the message, and it is like Steve’s post The Chaotic Node is happening right before our very eyes, not supporting the message, not wanting the message to go global, just like Red Elk said about all religions, even ceremony in indigenous tribes it is all about the song and dance, and bums on seats, not about about reconnecting with our god self. Second link is to a red elk interview from now defunct Spectrum magazine.
      http://www.pakalertpress.com/2010/12/29/hopi-other-indian-prophecies/
      http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/vida_alien/esp_vida_alien_24a.htm#menu
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   9.
      PeterW permalink
      January 3, 2011

      Am I being overly simplistic here, or are we wrong to be guided by our inner feelings or self? Do we not listen to and see Little Grandmother addressing us, and does this not engender deeply embedded emotions of love within us? Do we not sometimes weep with the feelings of love and gentleness which eminate from Little Grandmother? Then why need we look further?

      All people need to survive by trading their services or abilities in this world and so why should Kiesha by any different?

      Maybe if we were to try to look within, we would then see the truth and not need to question it.
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  10.
      Serina777 permalink
      January 3, 2011

      wow, this is so resonating PeterW! Love is so simple, so lightful!
      You never need to question REAL LOVE!

      Peace
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Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Spandex~Atom on January 03, 2011, 05:35:47 pm

"Each student must be encouraged to take responsible measures
to confront teachers with unethical aspects of their conduct.
If the teacher shows no sign of reform, students should not hesitate
to publicize any unethical behavior of which there is irrefutable evidence.
This should be done irrespective of other beneficial aspects of his or her work
and of one's spiritual commitment to that teacher"

His Holiness the Dalai Lama (Letter to the Sangha on Western Buddhism)
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: critter - a white non-ndn person on January 03, 2011, 06:12:42 pm
More info on the crystal that was buried in Sweden:
http://www.guld-kristall.se/kiesha-crowther-stockholm-29-juni/

Our powerful crystal, found in the ice of the North Pole, kept by the Inuit tribes for hundreds of years, waiting for Little Grandmother to place into Mother Earth at this time, to realign (create new?) meridians of our Earth … We are honored to be part of this and bow our foreheads to the ground and dance in utter joy and celebration – yeeha!

So the Inuits provided the crystal..... :-\

Well, if the crystal was "kept" by the Inuits for 100's of years, then Little Grandfraudster
has stolen it? 

I doubt the Inuits were holding a crystal waiting for LG and I think we ought to contact
them to get this whole thing debunked..

I am guessing since the Sioux can contest her stupid and insulting claims, she figures
no one from the Inuit will ?  wtf.

Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Smart Mule on January 03, 2011, 06:14:34 pm
More info on the crystal that was buried in Sweden:
http://www.guld-kristall.se/kiesha-crowther-stockholm-29-juni/

Our powerful crystal, found in the ice of the North Pole, kept by the Inuit tribes for hundreds of years, waiting for Little Grandmother to place into Mother Earth at this time, to realign (create new?) meridians of our Earth … We are honored to be part of this and bow our foreheads to the ground and dance in utter joy and celebration – yeeha!

So the Inuits provided the crystal..... :-\

I emailed a friend who is a geology professor about the likelyhood of the crystal being in such pristine condition if it were actually found in the manner stated.  I'll post his reply when I get it.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Freija on January 03, 2011, 06:31:19 pm
[ell, if the crystal was "kept" by the Inuits for 100's of years, then Little Grandfraudster
has stolen it?  I doubt the Inuits were holding a crystal waiting for LG and I think we ought to contact
them to get this whole thing debunked..

I am guessing since the Sioux can contest her stupid and insulting claims, she figures
no one from the Inuit will ?  wtf.

As vague as always. What Inuits? In Alaska, Canada, Russia, Denmark (Greenland or Denmark, Scandinavia?)
This is even more difficult to locate than finding the right band of "The Sioux".
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Smart Mule on January 03, 2011, 09:40:46 pm
I emailed a friend who is a geology professor about the likelyhood of the crystal being in such pristine condition if it were actually found in the manner stated.  I'll post his reply when I get it.

Name withheld by request to prevent threats and intimidation from Jennifer-

I can’t really tell from the photos about the size of the crystals from the photos, but they really just seem to be large quartz crystals- at most maybe 8 -10 inches in length. There isn’t anything distinctive or unusual about the specimens.

Wikipedia gives a nice overview of the mineral: ” Quartz is the second most abundant mineral in the Earth's continental crust, after feldspar. It is made up of a continuous framework of SiO4 silicon–oxygen tetrahedra, with each oxygen being shared between two tetrahedra, giving an overall formula SiO2. arge crystals of quartz are found in pegmatites. Well-formed crystals may reach several meters in length and weigh hundreds of kilograms.”

The base of the crystal is perfectly natural. The hexagonal cross section is a typical form for quartz crystals and has not been altered. The smoky surface on the base of the crystal is again what would be expected from a natural unaltered specimen. The square base is just how the crystal terminated when it grew and is nothing unusual. The point of the crystal looks to be broken as is this was a single crystal broken from a larger mass from a sheltered area ie most likely an underground deposit, with the point being the point of attachment. So the base has not been cut.

It is silly to believe it was found in a snowdrift at the North Pole. The ice at the North Pole is formed from sea ice – frozen ice from sea water - not ice broken from shore that could carry debris. The Arctic Ocean is over 5,000 meters deep at the north pole so it is not from the ocean floor. Unfortunately there is no way to test for the origin of a crystal based upon its appearance. There are chemical analysis of trace elements, but that only works if the source pattern is in the database (they use it for diamonds). If it had actually sat in a snowdrift or had been somehow deposited in ice there would be clear weatherization of the specimen.

In summary, it is a perfectly normal quartz crystal that has not been altered. However, it is not any different from the thousands of similar crystals that could be purchased from a rock and gem shop for a couple hundred dollars. There is no way to determine its origin, but there is no reason to believe it is special in any way.

Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Defend the Sacred on January 03, 2011, 10:02:28 pm
How they really got the crystal:

http://www.vimeo.com/18090033

Well, I'm sure they bought it in a store. After the earth was scarred and desecrated to mine it.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Laurel on January 04, 2011, 12:17:37 pm
Ice-schmice.  ::) Here's a crystal of 6-8 pounds that was found just sticking out of the dirt (rather than mined):

(http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/hs1336.snc4/162811_1263640766783_1702654107_455001_5413885_n.jpg)
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Superdog on January 04, 2011, 03:39:42 pm
Just came across a new blog.

http://firstnationsdiscussculturaltheft.blogspot.com/

There's some very interesting information posted there.

If anyone recalls Kiesha's "Official Statement regarding Native American Issues" that she posted on Dec. 26th (doubt anyone has forgotten it :) )
She talks about the person that initiated her....a person named "Falling Feathers" and describes him as possibly being from the Flathead Reservation in Montana (for those that don't know...the reservation the Salish people are part of) but not 100% certain.

This blog contains an image capture from Crowther's youtube channel where she left a comment stating that she was "initiated" by a "Sioux".

So once again Crowther's own words coming back to haunt her false claims.  I know her followers are following this thread and are actively changing the littlegrandmother.net site, now using the generic initiation by a "Native American elder" and taking away the tribal affiliation.  I wonder how they respond to this.  Her "official statement" is that she believed Falling Feathers came from Flathead, but previously stated that she was initiated by a "Sioux" (and also for those reading...that's also a red flag...."Sioux" people tend to refer to themselves as Lakota/Dakota/Nakoda) in a direct contradiction to her now "official statement" regarding her initiation.

I realize the current trend among her followers is that how it happened doesn't matter to them, it's the message that counts, but I would also like to remind them that to Salish and Lakota/Dakota/Nakoda peoples....it DOES matter.  She could've sent her message without the false claims of "initiation" by a "Native American elder" and nobody would've questioned her....had she been truthful.  So ask yourself, what the motivation is for this claim????  I think amongst your own consciousness you can agree that the message would not have gained the attention it did so quickly had she simply stated that she was an artist/poet from Colorado raised in a Mormon community who wanted to send a message of love for humanity....there's no sense of legitimacy attached to it in regards to the the new age perception of "shamanism" (and it is a perception...keeping in mind that to all of us, perception is reality).  The "indigenous" tag is simply a hot item in that perception and you can see for yourself how many people initially....and currently accept her STILL as a "shaman for the Sioux/Salish tribes" when she herself is now backpedalling from that claim.  There's even a highly energetic poster on her youtube vids now claiming she's White Buffalo Calf Woman reincarnated.....someone who's apparently completely lost and obviously doesn't understand the story behind WBCW and now completely believes Crowther and WBCW are connected all based on her "indigenous" title.

If the message is so strong and the followers believe it to be "truth".....why the packaging?  Why wouldn't you pay attention without the "titles"?

Superdog
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: goozih on January 04, 2011, 05:12:17 pm
Check this out from this website   http://ruthhousman.com/2011/01/kiesha-crowther/



Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Spandex~Atom on January 04, 2011, 05:21:55 pm
Love without truth is lacking something essential. Promoting the New Earth and the New Age of transparency and truth while holding to the old paradigm of secrecy and obfuscation is the mark of a false prophet.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: critter - a white non-ndn person on January 04, 2011, 06:32:07 pm
Check this out from this website   http://ruthhousman.com/2011/01/kiesha-crowther/


Can I ask that people maybe include the info from websites?  I have it here:

Kiesha Crowther
Posted on January 3, 2011 by Ruth Housman

I received an email from my good friend in Malta, about this You Tube message which is worth watching!

I want to draw attention to Kiesha and her message. Note that her name contains CROW. I entered the new year with ravens and crows, the very wise and wonderful Corvo family. Kiesha has an important message to relay. Ever since she was a little girl she has been known by the Lakota tribe as Little Grandmother. Later it seems she has received messages from the ancient wise ones, called The Grandmothers, and the message is one of peace and cosmic consciousness. No different from the messages of Sharon McErlane who has started a group called The Grandmothers, for world peace, which is catching on around the world. Sharon’s story, a mystic spiritual story, is not dissimilar from Kiesha’s in terms of hearing these “grandmothers” and their wisdom, about us, our future, and how we must act in ways of peace.

Key in You Tube, Keisha Crowther. I think she’s quite luminous.

---

I replied, wonder if it will pass the "moderation" and be posted.

Also, would it be possible to have a sub thread for videos so a person doesn't have to sort thru
46 pages to find links to video's? It's probably not possible, but just thought it would be helpful.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: educatedindian on January 04, 2011, 10:23:14 pm
This is encouraging. Ms. Houseman certainly is more ethical and using better judgement (I know that's a dirty word to many Nuagers) than most of Crowther's followers.

-----------
re Kiesha Crowther
Posted on January 4, 2011 by Ruth Housman
I received email saying her site is a Fraud, and until I investigate this further, I am taking this off line. I appreciate those who contacted me. I do know that The Grandmothers, an organization run by Sharon McErlane does not in any way appear to be a fraud, and that Kiesha’s story which I did listen to, on line, was very similar.

I totally apologize if this is fraud. This site is sensitive to these things, and I don’t want to “lead anyone down the garden path”, meaning publish and promote fraudulent You tube listings.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Superdog on January 05, 2011, 01:37:50 am
That is nice to see.  Thank you Ruth for using some good judgment.  Much appreciated.

Superdog
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Saga on January 05, 2011, 07:06:13 pm
Was reading the older posts from this thread and had to check part of the Kiesha's 'return of the ancestors' video talk. John Kimmey is indeed in that video. More people who have no right to spread indigenous wisdom or claim to be wisdom keepers... Somehow didn't register it in first reading. And of course, he was named in the december urgent messages of changeable nature, before Kiesha's support group noticed that it might not be bright idea to mention someone hopi's have asked to back up from the claims to be their prophecy keeper.

(THAT version of december's message where the Kimmey can be found - under 'who recognizes her as a shaman' - is in the google cache still: http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:kHOZkVRYuK4J:www.tribeofmanycolors.net/nb/news-and-urgent-messages/urgent-message-concerning-desinformation-campaign-in-the-internet.html+kiesha+urgent+message+december&cd=12&hl=fi&ct=clnk&gl=fi&client=firefox-a )
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Defend the Sacred on January 05, 2011, 09:03:03 pm
Compiled some videos about Crowther and other Plastic Shamans, with priority given to NDN productions: http://www.newagefraud.org/smf/index.php?topic=3093.0

(If adding any videos, please state what Nation the filmmaker is from)
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: goozih on January 06, 2011, 03:57:33 am
here is a you tube video dated sept 24 2010 where she is interviewed via the internet and claims the tribe gave her the name "little grandmother" at birth. I am not good with keyboards so check it out. I apologize if it has been discussed before.   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QLPrjf8Tp94&feature=related
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Freija on January 06, 2011, 09:27:05 am
Kathryn, you´ve done a fantastic job! Thank you so much for including our film, too. (The whole film is online for everyone to see for about 1.50 USD - http://vod.journeyman.tv/store?p=3217. )
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: goozih on January 06, 2011, 04:39:58 pm
The more I think this over the more disturbing I find it. The message of "love", "Love the earth" with no need to take any action or a plan of action just send love and positive energy or bury a crystal....No real message..just a recycling of internet new age content(crystals, crystal skulls, star people AKA UFOs etc...) Really nothing original or inspiring yet it is attracting a lot of people. It seems there are a lot of sophisticated video techniques used, a lot of money spent and a lot of energy diverted from real issues.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: debbieredbear on January 06, 2011, 05:46:03 pm
It attracts people because many are too lazy to do the work needed to have a true spiritual life. They want to have it handed to them, or buy a book or take a workshop and presto chango they are "SPIRITUAL". At least that's what I have found. The sad thing is this woman is totally nuts and her followers don't care. They don't care that she is a liar and a fraud. She is handing them what they want.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Freija on January 06, 2011, 07:26:12 pm
Swedish National Radio just sent an one hour interview with Kiesha. You can listen to it:

http://sverigesradio.se/sida/default.aspx?programid=3925

Look to the right where it says "Hela intervjun med Kiesha Crowther" and click it, it will start.

The interviewer is time after time trying to make her say how she became a shaman. Kiesha talks around it, finally says THE Native American Tribe phoned her. She is being more careful now  :)

What makes me really angry is about 35:00 when she says that when in Sweden, she found the crystal that she gave BACK to the Samis! Huh???? They had lost it?? Sounds very strange because I found another article in Swedish saying that the Swedish crystal came from the Inuits on the North Pole,buried in the snow. So did they steal it from the Samis??  Oh well, she found it (where??) and gave it back to the Samis who buried it in southern Sweden? It is not even their land....they´re up north. This is crazy.

And FUNNY enough, the Samis also has a prophecy that she would come. That´s how they found her.

She is ....hrm, excuse the pun...really loosing it now!
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Defend the Sacred on January 06, 2011, 07:36:29 pm
Swedish National Radio just sent an one hour interview with Kiesha. You can listen to it:

http://sverigesradio.se/sida/default.aspx?programid=3925

Look to the right where it says "Hela intervjun med Kiesha Crowther" and click it, it will start.

Was the interview live? When did the interview take place?

And thank you for your film :)
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: czech on January 06, 2011, 07:44:10 pm
The interviewer is time after time trying to make her say how she became a shaman. Kiesha talks around it, finally says THE Native American Tribe phoned her. She is being more careful now  :)

I haven't listened to it but from what you write it seems that the interviewer was aware of the controversy around KC. A good sign, people are starting to notice... and question...
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Freija on January 06, 2011, 07:55:45 pm
The interviewer was good....up to the point Kiesha talked about the crystal and the Samis. I would have had thousands of questions. Think maybe the interviewer got so totally confused she couldn´t come up with anything.  :)
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Freija on January 06, 2011, 07:57:47 pm
Kathryn - this must have been when she was here last October. She was in the studio.
I wonder why it took them so long to air it??
Strange.

Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Smart Mule on January 06, 2011, 08:55:58 pm
If you listen to the broadcast, along the little bar that shows how far into the broadcast you are I'm pretty sure it gives the date :)
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: WineHippie on January 06, 2011, 09:14:39 pm
It attracts people because many are too lazy to do the work needed to have a true spiritual life. They want to have it handed to them, or buy a book or take a workshop and presto chango they are "SPIRITUAL". At least that's what I have found. The sad thing is this woman is totally nuts and her followers don't care. They don't care that she is a liar and a fraud. She is handing them what they want.


i think it is because ppl cling to hope - hope for an easy way, an instant cure ...
think of all the time and money spent on diet aids, baldness cures, mood elevators
and erectile dysfunction - kinda sad
***
the insidious part is that are many who profit off ppl and their hopelessness
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Freija on January 06, 2011, 09:39:57 pm
If you listen to the broadcast, along the little bar that shows how far into the broadcast you are I'm pretty sure it gives the date :)

Thanks, Sky. 28th October.
The Salish statement wasn´t out then, was it?
On the other hand, she stated she was taught and recognized by the Lakota when she was in Sweden.
She was obviously very reluctant to throw in a name of a Tribe, so she must have known she was out on deep water.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: goozih on January 06, 2011, 11:50:37 pm
At 15:00 of the swedish radio interview KC says that a shaman is called a  "mist walker" by indigenous people . Has anyone ever heard of this?
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Smart Mule on January 07, 2011, 12:49:17 am

Thanks, Sky. 28th October.
The Salish statement wasn´t out then, was it?
On the other hand, she stated she was taught and recognized by the Lakota when she was in Sweden.
She was obviously very reluctant to throw in a name of a Tribe, so she must have known she was out on deep water.

You're absolutely right, it was prior to the Salish Elders statement. It seems like she has different scripts for different scenarios.

Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: flyaway on January 07, 2011, 02:57:23 am
NO shamans in any Tribes in the Indigenous People of Turtle Island. Never ever heard the term "mist walkers" another term she has come up with. ::)
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Freija on January 07, 2011, 09:05:39 am
NO shamans in any Tribes in the Indigenous People of Turtle Island. Never ever heard the term "mist walkers" another term she has come up with. ::)

Pretty exciting with new positions in the tribes! lol
Another thing is that when in Sweden, she always says that the person "Little Grandmother" is taking over her, Kiesha. She is transferring into another character. I haven´t heard her making that claim anywhere else, have you?

You´re right, Sky, she has different scripts each time.
It´s like the whole world is her playing ground and she can turn into Snowhite or Cinderella or whatever...noone would question it. Very childlike and naive.  ???
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Freija on January 07, 2011, 09:36:21 am
Oh, by the way, the Samis are now informed. So far we haven´t found anyone knowing of any recognition of Kiesha.
But the word is out in Sami-land. So wait for it.....

(Credit goes to a friend of mine, though. Thank you C.  !)
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Saga on January 07, 2011, 10:53:45 am
I have seen and listened the Swedish interview way earlier, I think I even posted it here once to comment about it. That it has completely different sound from the brainwash videos and that she probably has a different script for more "official" interviews than what she uses in her workshops... If this is the same interview, I am not too excited to check. :)

And yes, seems that she isn't able to keep track from her lies anymore either... with the crystal stuff or anything. Maybe she has split personality too, since the LG is taking over...

I found it extremely alarming that she offers empty words to comfort and at the same time makes sure that a large group of people doesn't do anything to correct any wrongness or to protect the earth or anything at all to any injustice in the world. Except ofc, sit at home and pray. Newest prayer request is out for tonight. She has also started to add bit more fear mongering in her messages and even the prayer requests, already seen couple of freaked out people because of her.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Freija on January 07, 2011, 05:34:45 pm
I have seen and listened the Swedish interview way earlier, I think I even posted it here once to comment about it. That it has completely different sound from the brainwash videos and that she probably has a different script for more "official" interviews than what she uses in her workshops... If this is the same interview, I am not too excited to check. :)

Oh sorry, Saga, for not noticing that. This thread is getting soooo long. There is no way my brain can keep all this info. lol

Sent off a letter to the producer of the show. What makes me mad is ALL those countless times I´ve had Native friends here, trying to get them some time on radio or TV to speak about their plights. It´s impossible! (Oh, unless they play the flute. But then, of course, they are not allowed to say something other than the fluffy beautiful stuff). But someone making up lies gets ample time to talk, though.  :-\ >:(
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: educatedindian on January 07, 2011, 09:32:35 pm
At 15:00 of the swedish radio interview KC says that a shaman is called a  "mist walker" by indigenous people . Has anyone ever heard of this?

I've never heard of it, not from any NDN, any history account, or any anthropology text.

Seems like she may have pulled it from this t shirt with a Franklin Mint kind of image on it.
http://eaglespiritstore.com/store/catalog/viewitem.php?groupid=12&productid=1789

I also found the term on many role playing sites, as well as a few self identified Celtics who claim it was their term for shaman.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Defend the Sacred on January 07, 2011, 10:04:05 pm
At 15:00 of the swedish radio interview KC says that a shaman is called a  "mist walker" by indigenous people . Has anyone ever heard of this?
< snip >

I also found the term on many role playing sites, as well as a few self identified Celtics who claim it was their term for shaman.

 :D  :D  :D  Oh my, no. Mist/fog is an important factor in many old Irish myths. But "mist walker" was not a title for any spiritual functionary in any of the Celtic cultures. Nor is it now.

There are gamers and newagers who have probably seized on the idea, most likely from Marion Zimmer Bradley's fantasy novel, The Mists of Avalon. Bradley was an American, and the novel is an Arthurian fantasy set in England.

Kiesha is English and German. Neither of those are Celtic Nations. We don't want her, either.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Teacher on January 07, 2011, 10:27:57 pm
Quote
Kiesha is English and German. Neither of those are Celtic Nations. We don't want her, either.

oh my word!  that's a riot!   ;D

Seems like the pressure to stop her lies, deceit and harmful practices are catching up with her.   :)
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: tsalagi43 on January 08, 2011, 01:47:28 am
From what I understand on another site, a curling iron that released steam was called the "Mist Stick"...(mystic?)...it did not go over well in Germany, because 'mist' was a slang word for 'manure'.  So, if that means she's a Manure Walker, I'd believe it.

The comments her incredibly blind followers make on her Facebook pages are so astoundingly disrespectful (not that I'm very respectful at this point), with claims that we're selfish for trying to keep the ceremonies to ourselves, and someone told one poster, "It's not YOUR religion any more!"  And they can't see how blatantly hurtful, disrespectful, and downright WRONG these practices are!  And they all, especially the European followers, have a bizarre, romanticized idealization of Native Americans as the 'Noble Savage', full of peace and love, etc.

I've been through my share of frauds, which I will share later.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: tsalagi43 on January 08, 2011, 01:50:42 am
Apparently, anyone the Palm Springs venue calling about Kiesha is getting hung up on.  That ought to add to their wonderful PR they're going to get.  "Venue KNOWINGLY Defrauds Public!"
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Bill Dunlap on January 08, 2011, 02:26:09 am
My curiosity is peaked and I want to look into this Kiesha Crowther a little more carefully.  As a matter of interest, is she or is any of her crowd involved in the indigo children nonsense, or any other movement that marginalizes disabled children?
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: tsalagi43 on January 08, 2011, 03:11:19 am
My curiosity is peaked and I want to look into this Kiesha Crowther a little more carefully.  As a matter of interest, is she or is any of her crowd involved in the indigo children nonsense, or any other movement that marginalizes disabled children?
Not that I'm aware of, I've not seen any references to Indigo Children, just her 'Tribe of Many Colors' which the site was down for a bit, but now it's back up...perhaps she spent some of that money she's conned out of stupid people and gotten her moderators some medication.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Spandex~Atom on January 08, 2011, 03:30:49 am

She lies about so many things.........so, 'allegedly':

http://littlegrandmother.net/September2010Newsletter.aspx
"An amazing example of this: During my talk in Copenhagen, I was speaking about the star beings and how they really are here and willing to help us in our time of need... and out of the corner of my eye I saw a brittle and crippled hand a few rows back reaching as high as it could, ready to speak. I turned my head to see a beautiful, truly beautiful man in his wheelchair. It only took one glance to figure out life had not been easy for him. His little body was twisted and turned this way and that way and his head leaned to the right... and with all his might he was trying to lift his  arm--he had something to say! I quickly handed the mic to one of the camera people and got the mic to this man, whom I could see was so radiant and so focused. When the mic got to him, he  rested knowing that he had been seen and the time was now his to speak; he took a few breaths and leaned his head toward the microphone as much as he could, and then spoke.. ... even today I get chills when remembering this moment. He said "It is true, the star beings are among you...they always have been, and they do care about you and this planet very much... here he paused again and breathed as though he was thinking over something.. and then he held his head as straight as he could up and down and got very focused and said..... “Please do not be afraid of US, WE are here to help you!""

Wether there are or aren't people from other worlds/places incarnating as human in every walk of life isn't really the issue for me. The issue is that she has added this to her 'story', and it seems to me be
because it 'sells' her spiel to people who are desperately looking for a reason to feel special. Just another way to hook people into her web of deceit.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Bill Dunlap on January 08, 2011, 03:31:05 am
Many of these new age frauds have been preying on autistic children and their families.  If they are not claiming that autistics are indigo children and have super spiritual powers, or claiming quack cures for a condition where there is no cure, and why would you want to turn your kid into somebody else anyway?

I have some vague memory of somebody named Crowther being involved in the abuse of autistic children.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: tsalagi43 on January 08, 2011, 03:47:57 am
They'll prey on anyone they may think has money, or access to funding.  Just reading her sites, you can see how mentally unbalanced her followers are!  Telling Native people how to do their own ceremonies and telling them they don't own them anymore, etc?  My copy of the comments from Shadowfax's video are upstairs...if I don't go sleepies early, I'll post a few.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Spandex~Atom on January 08, 2011, 04:00:12 am
...........I have some vague memory of somebody named Crowther being involved in the abuse of autistic children.


It's a common enough name.
There is no record or evidence she is in any way connected to abusing autistic children.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Smart Mule on January 08, 2011, 04:12:18 am
Many of these new age frauds have been preying on autistic children and their families.  If they are not claiming that autistics are indigo children and have super spiritual powers, or claiming quack cures for a condition where there is no cure, and why would you want to turn your kid into somebody else anyway?

I have some vague memory of somebody named Crowther being involved in the abuse of autistic children.
Kiesha has been connected with the indigo child movement though as far as I know has not used the specific label. I believe she has said that certain people living with developmental or psych issues are aliens or something tithes effect, she has also said that she is the only sibling in her family who is free of any of these issues.

Oh and welcome to the boards :)
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Spandex~Atom on January 08, 2011, 04:27:34 am
They are just attention seekers and are there to distract and bring out the worst in others.
It gives them energy.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Twinkie_Slayer on January 08, 2011, 05:39:39 am
 There's probably a very good reason those comments were deleted by the owner of that video....something that would be wise to consider before posting them here.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Bill Dunlap on January 08, 2011, 07:23:41 am
Many of these new age frauds have been preying on autistic children and their families.  If they are not claiming that autistics are indigo children and have super spiritual powers, or claiming quack cures for a condition where there is no cure, and why would you want to turn your kid into somebody else anyway?

I have some vague memory of somebody named Crowther being involved in the abuse of autistic children.
Kiesha has been connected with the indigo child movement though as far as I know has not used the specific label. I believe she has said that certain people living with developmental or psych issues are aliens or something tithes effect, she has also said that she is the only sibling in her family who is free of any of these issues.

Oh and welcome to the boards :)

Thank you for your welcome, Sky.  I am delighted to be here.  For the record, I am the proud parent of an autistic twenty year old who taught himself over ten languages since he was 13.  Over the years I have been accused by numerous quacks to be an abusive parent because I did not teach him to be a shaman or I did not force their cure of the week on him.  Make no mistake about it.  Putting bullshit expectations on disabled people or subjecting them to quack remedies is abuse.

Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: tsalagi43 on January 08, 2011, 08:08:16 am
I was just dealing with one on Facebook that, doggone it, she was a Native American in a past life, and knows ONE REAL NATIVE AMERICAN, so we HAVE to accept her and her teachings, darnit!  Turns out she's in DENMARK, and says to me, "DO you know where Denmark is?"
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Freija on January 08, 2011, 10:08:24 am
I was just dealing with one on Facebook that, doggone it, she was a Native American in a past life, and knows ONE REAL NATIVE AMERICAN, so we HAVE to accept her and her teachings, darnit!  Turns out she's in DENMARK, and says to me, "DO you know where Denmark is?"

 :) Oh well....I think many Americans wouldn´t know where all the countries in Europe or Asia are. Being from Sweden I´ve been placed in Switzerland countless times. It would never upset me because personally I couldn´t say where half of your States are, nor where all the countries in South America are situated. That´s how it goes..... ;D
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: tsalagi43 on January 08, 2011, 10:42:28 am
Basically, she was calling me dumb for not being as enlightened as she.  I'd just like to know, if one of these fluffybunnies discovered they'd been a slave in Colonial America, would they be going to the Black Panthers, insisting they knew how it was to be black, and demand to be accepted as 'one of them'?  Why is it always Native Americans (when it's not Cleopatra or something fantastic)?  Of course, she tried to make it about race "You hate me because I'm white".  No, I hate you because you're acting like you're so superior to everyone else in this spirituality you've found, and you think you have something 'new' to tell us like we haven't heard your schtick a billion times before.  You insist we accept you as Indian because you claim you were one in a past life, and you talk about how anger and hatred are bad and have only kept us down.  Well, gee, let's be all light and fluffy and accept everyone so we lose every last vestige of ourselves, shall we? (You don't wanna know where I told her to stick her crystal)  Let's just lie in the grass and be mellow and let every last shred of anything we have be taken from us, shall we?  This idealized, romanticized BS about what some people think Indians are makes me want to vomit!  And they insult us when we don't live up to their fantasy! 

Keep in mind, I'd just been teasing someone else about being part Norwegian...I think I know what part of the world I'm talking about, though I asked, sarcastically, "It's near Iowa, enit?"
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Saga on January 08, 2011, 11:49:23 am
Those comments sound like true lightworkers in action... "No, I don't need to respect you or anyone else, I am superior, the world turns when I say so, I love you if you don't disagree too much with me." and then the praise for their choice of an authority they follow.

Anyway, about the authistic kids, Kiesha has stated that all who have problems with mind or body or something are sacred beings and/or starbeings and kids are more or less next to gods ofc too. But nothing more specific as far as I know... In any case she does have lots of followers who have authistic kids, or work with disabled people.

(and about the country thing, hardly none knows where finland is, or they are thinking we have polar bears at very least, if they know)
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: earthw7 on January 08, 2011, 12:02:51 pm
Wow, i live on my reservation, i have a college deree, i don't get government cheese, i have worked all my life,
I do believe my ways are for my people because look what happens people take them, change them, corrupt them,
to the point them don't even make sense like tis woman lies after lies then we have cult people who follow her
condemn the very people they are stealing from what is wrong with this picture????
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Saga on January 08, 2011, 12:10:09 pm
I was going through lots of "spiritual" groups last year and really, that scene is even worse occasionally than fundamentalist christians... They have no respect for anything, only empty words. You can have a conversation with fundamentalistic christian, here you are just shut out when you say something they don't want to hear, or kicked out. I mean, they are all about love and compassion, but when you disagree too much, or are part of the wrong group (for example someone who isn't against religion), you will be surely to get an attack, ignore or lots and lots of disrespect. Even as a fellow white person. :p I quit most of the groups. Atleast it was a real eye opener to me, can have my inner peace again with my own ways, which aren't actually that bad compared to this "high spirituality". Was painful kick towards the right direction, but well worth it.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Smart Mule on January 08, 2011, 01:45:04 pm
There's probably a very good reason those comments were deleted by the owner of that video....something that would be wise to consider before posting them here.

They've been removed, they were posted without permission of the video owner and, as you said, they were removed for a very good reason from YouTube.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: tsalagi43 on January 08, 2011, 05:27:05 pm
Thank you for deleting them.  I figured they were public, so it didn't matter, and it just showed Kiesha's what those people are like.  Blindly disrespecting an entire culture, and berating those people for being angry about it!  Or, they shove themselves down your throat...this woman was insisting she's joining AIM!
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: critter - a white non-ndn person on January 08, 2011, 07:19:01 pm
new age people are the best example of what happens when you think you know.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Defend the Sacred on January 08, 2011, 07:40:59 pm
... the racist trolls were claiming they were going to try to join AIM?
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: tsalagi43 on January 08, 2011, 09:04:15 pm
I wouldn't call her so much racist (though she was claiming I was...) as much as severely misguided.  She claims to know ONE Native person (she kept insisting I ask him about her), so therefore she was joining AIM.  In Denmark.  Is there a chapter in Denmark?  That's near Iowa, enit?  LOL
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: tsalagi43 on January 08, 2011, 09:37:50 pm
I wouldn't call her so much racist (though she was claiming I was...) as much as severely misguided.  She claims to know ONE Native person (she kept insisting I ask him about her), so therefore she was joining AIM.  In Denmark.  Is there a chapter in Denmark?  That's near Iowa, enit?  LOL
Funny story along this line.  Acquaintance of mine's dad had a woman come up to him and demand he give her an Indian name.  He laughed and said he couldn't do that.  She says, "It's because I'm WHITE, isn't it?"   Yeeeaaaahhhh....let's start with that....LOL
I also had someone on Facebook accuse me of being racist because I posted a lot of Native Issue items, and accused everyone on my list of having 'made up' names!  But he claims HE is not a racist...noooo...."I don't see colour"...sure...and if four, say, black guys mug you, you're gonna tell the cops....????  Bet you see colour then.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Twinkie_Slayer on January 08, 2011, 10:34:44 pm
Wow, i live on my reservation, i have a college deree, i don't get government cheese, i have worked all my life,
I do believe my ways are for my people because look what happens people take them, change them, corrupt them,
to the point them don't even make sense like tis woman lies after lies then we have cult people who follow her
condemn the very people they are stealing from what is wrong with this picture????

 Stop!, yer gonna ruin their fantasy!  ;D
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Defend the Sacred on January 08, 2011, 10:54:48 pm
Wow, i live on my reservation, i have a college deree, i don't get government cheese, i have worked all my life,
I do believe my ways are for my people because look what happens people take them, change them, corrupt them,
to the point them don't even make sense like tis woman lies after lies then we have cult people who follow her
condemn the very people they are stealing from what is wrong with this picture????

 Stop!, yer gonna ruin their fantasy!  ;D

 ;D  ;D  ;D
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: tsalagi43 on January 09, 2011, 12:46:10 am
Everyone likes a good fantasy.  I have one...has to do with Adam Beach...and that's all I'm sayin'... ;D
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Eccentric Lady on January 09, 2011, 05:32:04 am
Someone I heard once defending this woman charlatan Crowther said something to the effect that,

".... just because some indigenous people say they do not know of little grandmother does not mean they are being honest"
 
 :( They were defending the lies saying that the lies are nothing and I should listen to her speak of "One Tribe of Many Colors" and peace and love? There is no love where lies prevail and she is not someone I will ever support.
 
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Saga on January 09, 2011, 10:37:48 am
Yes, most of the Kiesha supporters are still saying that indigenous people should just loosen up and become part of the rest of the world... which ofc should accept the Kiesha-mess as main religion and god. (Ok, I forgot my sarcasm filter at home again..)

I don't comment that much at the moment here, because I have grown tired with the whole mess... There is so many things wrong in the picture, even when not commenting most of her message at all, but still most of the people choose to be blindfolded and lead to the... well, not sure where. Altho, I am happy to inform the people in the forum that from what I've heard, the latest prayer request didn't catch so big attention now, because of the information out there. The amount of "likes" in fb was way less than what it would have been in the spring. Altho, it is possible that the people have just "changed the channel" from the bird deaths and all, or maybe thinking that it is their sign of salvation coming soon...

Ok, I am not too nice today either, it seems. Time to go to find something fun to do.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: luciddreamer on January 10, 2011, 08:13:01 pm
Hi all!..been watching this thread progress for some time now and must say thank you for your persistence in revealing this obvious fake that is Kiesha Crowther.
I happen to still be a 'friend' of hers on facebook and have just seen the following posts which may interest you all.

Posted by a follower: "kiesha just to inform you and everyone else that the salish never made a statement about you..this is a fact. For anyone who would like to check this you can ring them, the video was made with the agenda of turning lightworker against lightworker by unsavoury individuals..so rock on..chin up..got your back sisx"

Response to above from Kiesha "Thanks sweetie, yes i know its true, and because im not protesting all the hateful agendas it looks to some like im accepting it.. but im trying not to engage with hate... yes this group spreading hate have written many emails to me and to ...those i work for.. but with no name signed at the bottom, not even a real email address to return a message to.. Never have i been contacted by any official anyone.. hate is hate. and it saddens me to think how many are out there to destroy love and light.. but im going to just keep marching forward..."

Kiesha then makes this statement on her facebook page (seems that little ego stroke gave her a lil confidence boost eh  ;) "I would like to make something perfectly clear see bleow: To all those who have heard about the native American attacks on me and what i do.... I will say again, i do not teach native American ways, never have.. if anyone has went to any of my workshops or listed to what i have said.. you will fin...d i do not teach native ways, If the complaint is that i use a peace pipe while i pray... I say to this every woman man and child has the right to pray to great spirit as they wish and so do I. To those of you who are attacking me thinking i make money by doing ceremony, if you are to look into anything that i have done you would know for a fact i have never charged a dime to do ceremony ( in my own way in respect of the ancestors and great spirit) not a penny has been made. To those who believe the attack by native americans threatening me and my livelihood.. you should know they are fighting their own battle.. once again i do not teach native ways, because i have used a pipe in my way of prayer does not mean i teach native things.. never have, never will.. If you know anything of what i teach you will see i share the idea of love and coming together for a higher way of being. It has nothing at all to do with a specific tradition but a world message of unity. and teaching that we all have the right to connect with great spirit and our higher selves for a better future. Further more all of these attacks are done by those who will not even sign their names to a offensive email or even give a email address to correspond with. The world is full of those who love and those who hate.. all over the planet those light workers teaching love are being attacked by throngs of people who have nothing better to do than act in hate and violence and try to protect their native rights by lashing out.. at people who are not even teaching their ways.. again i will say this.. i do not teach native American anything and have made an official report on this on my website. To be accused of such things is pushing me to my tolerance levels... I ask the members of the tribe not to feed into this hate, this is the very thing we are trying to work against.. and to those who spend their time in anger and hatred and using your energy to spread such hate... may love soften your hearts and may you remember you too have the ability to change the world if you give your energy to light. Every human on this planet has the right to want a better future and a better planet to live on. We each have the (authority) to teach and be love and light.. there is no one person, tribe, or teacher better than you, or with more authority than you.. it is our responsibility to stand up for what is right and move forward in love and not cower in front of those who wish to bring us down. I have tried to ignore this long enough but i am getting very tiered of hearing or reading peoples acusations against me when they are indeed barking up the wrong tree. Thank you to those who stand by love and light and the message.. I ask no one to follow me, but i ask as i always have to listen to your own hearts and remember the good within yourselves.. as children of Mother Earth.. remember who you are.. and help make a difference... love to all, even those who attack with such hate in their hearts and malice on their tongues... LG"

Like I said I've been observing her for a while now and am pretty convinced that there is a complex network involved, for example, some of her postings have been littered with loads of spelling errors, I'm no expert in dyslexia but you know when a person spells something how they say it in speech??...like that, then her other posts are mostly error free, you can just tell it's two different styles of writing and more than likely two different people posting on her behalf but of course the blind will miss minor details like this and continue to hang on her every word. Why don't these people use common sense..!

I don't like how she's manipulating people under the masquerade of love and of course taking advantage of native american culture, sacred practices. Is there any way we could get an official statement from the tribe that couldn't be disputed?

Peace and thanks  :)
"
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: luciddreamer on January 10, 2011, 08:17:41 pm
Just re-read her first response "yes this group spreading hate have written many emails to me and to ...those i work for"...those you work for?...interesting
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Ema-Nuel on January 10, 2011, 11:06:02 pm
Hi, the 27:th dec I mailed cskt (The Confederated Salish and Kootenai Tribes) and asked whether the utube denial of Keishas shaman status was their statement.
Did that because there was nothing about it on their site http://www.cskt.org/ (and still isn´t)
In the first answer 3:rd jan "Robert McDonald Communications Director -- CSKT" said he didn´t know of what I was reffering to. The utube denial was by then gone, so he could not look at it.
I then wrote back to him:
"It was a clip where CSKT is denying Keisha Crowther "Little Grandmother" being shaman for the Sioux and Salish tribes.
A film with her on this adress: http://vimeo.com/11191065"
This was 4:th jan. So far no more answer.
A little mysterious that a communication director seemed to have no idea of an "official statement", as I think the utube film claimed to be.
???

Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Smart Mule on January 10, 2011, 11:43:28 pm
The statement was issued by the Elders' Committee. There may have been some confusion because the Elders' Committee is not the same thing as the tribal government. They don't speak for one another. I’ve been in contact with Mr. McDonald and he said nothing that would lead me to believe that the Elders were not within their right to issue the statement.

Give Mr. McDonald some time to respond.  From what I understand he has been inundated by people wanting to know if Kiesha is indeed legit.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: critter - a white non-ndn person on January 11, 2011, 12:32:35 am
That's great news.. maybe not for Mr. McDonald..  but that many are taking action to find
some truth.  :D 
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Superdog on January 11, 2011, 01:02:27 am
Hi, the 27:th dec I mailed cskt (The Confederated Salish and Kootenai Tribes) and asked whether the utube denial of Keishas shaman status was their statement.
Did that because there was nothing about it on their site http://www.cskt.org/ (and still isn´t)
In the first answer 3:rd jan "Robert McDonald Communications Director -- CSKT" said he didn´t know of what I was reffering to. The utube denial was by then gone, so he could not look at it.
I then wrote back to him:
"It was a clip where CSKT is denying Keisha Crowther "Little Grandmother" being shaman for the Sioux and Salish tribes.
A film with her on this adress: http://vimeo.com/11191065"
This was 4:th jan. So far no more answer.
A little mysterious that a communication director seemed to have no idea of an "official statement", as I think the utube film claimed to be.
???



You e-mailed the wrong place.  The CSKT Elders Cultural Advisory council is described here and they are the ones attributed with the statement..not tribal government and in my opinion a much more valid one as these individuals are the ones that actually practice and preserve traditional culture and make sure it's taught to others (freely and all are welcome to go and learn, even Kiesha..she might try it, wisdom comes from life experience and often times from making mistakes as she's done, humbling herself and actually learning about her mother's tribe before claiming to represent them might be in order to attain even the littlest bit of authenticity...)

http://www.cskt.org/hc/salishelders.htm

"They assist with all our duties and goals of the Salish - Pend d'Oreille Culture Committee. They are very giving and dedicated elders. They continue to share their wisdom, strength and support with us all in our work to reserve, perpetuate and protect the traditions, languages and lifeways of our people. The Committee staff continues to record new interviews with knowledgeable elders, as this is essential for the preservation of the language and culture.

The Elders Council gather monthly throughout the year to share their knowledge. They assist in teaching Salish Language Classes and Cultural Awareness Classes. They have received awards and recognition for their dedicated work in preserving the language and culture of the Tribes. They are irreplaceable, the backbones of our traditions and survival of native languages, they are true treasures.

The traditional elders continue to lead and guide the committee and all tribal people in the gathering of traditional foods and medicinal plants. The committee and Elders Advisory Council assist with the Jump Dances at the beginning of every year. These are held at the Longhouse (Longhouse is located in St. Ignatius, Montana on Blind Barnaby St.). They guide us with our annual Bitterroot Feast and Ceremony in the spring, where we give thanks for the bitterroot and other foods and we pray for good sustenance for our people all year. The Committee Staff and Elders Advisory Council then begin the year of gathering our plants for food and medicines to share and teach the tribal people about. The committee and elders organize annual trips to the Medicine Tree in the Bitterroot Valley, and continue to work to protect the tree form highway expansion, we also make an annual fall pilgrimage to the Bitterroot Valley and Stevensville to honor our ancestors and visit the homeland of the Salish. The Elders Advisory Council are currently and have been assisting with the Salish-Pend d'Oreille History Project which will produce a book on history, place names, Swan Massacre.

Within the Tribal Government, the Committee Staff and Elders Advisory Council also perform a number of tasks to ensure the presence of a cultural perspective. The Committee and elders giver presentations and cultural orientation workshops to various departments and outside entities when called upon. Various elders from the Advisory Council are called upon regularly by various Tribal Departments and Tribal Council to attend meetings on things like water rights negotiations, treaty rights celebrations, timber sales, tobacco conferences, hi-way expansions, cutting meat, beading, story telling, preservations of sites to name a few."

------------------------------------------
Which is different than the tribal government PR person (Robert MacDonald) you contacted here:

http://www.cskt.org/hc/salish.htm

or even the Culture Committee in general which receives it's guidance from the Elder's Committee, however the Elder's Committee page only lists contacts for the culture committe which is:

Salish/Pend d'Oreille Culture Committee
PO Box 550
St. Ignatius, Montana 59865
Phone: (406) 745-4572
Fax: (406) 745-4573
Email: sti4573@blackfoot.net

Hope that helps.

Superdog
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Saga on January 11, 2011, 09:19:10 am
Ok, want to set something straight, if Kiesha is claiming that no one of the critisizers have used their own name. I have. I made it sure to use my own name and my main email when I wrote to her, more than once. Even wrote through her fb profile with my own personal profile more than once to point out some issues. I might be here with a different name, but many of her "followers" know who I am anyway. I never got ANY answers.

I find the "those I work for" pretty interesting too. Does she mean the elders that she isn't working for, the "invisible" council or the fraud team? I find it pretty hard to write to council that doesn't exist at least... Or is  she the spokesperson of the people who write her texts and answers her mail? In any case... From what I watched almost all of the last year, Kiesha herself makes lots of spelling errors, so when ever long text is clean, it is written or at least read through by someone else with suggestions.

(I really can't believe how people find the guts to lie so much... I feel ill just reading it. :/ And really, even if not "teaching" the native american ways, why to use sacred items that are connected in their cultural context, that makes no sense.)
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Freija on January 11, 2011, 10:29:11 am
Ok, want to set something straight, if Kiesha is claiming that no one of the critisizers have used their own name. I have. I made it sure to use my own name and my main email when I wrote to her, more than once.  I never got ANY answers.

I, too , have always used my real email with my name. I have politely asked very relevant questions but never got a reply.

I have been teaching management and leadership for corporations for 20 years.  Any leader must be expected to be questioned, whether you´re a political or religious leader, a corporation manager or a leader for a football team. Doesn´t matter. The opposite – no questions allowed – would open up for a very dangerous kind of leadership for sure, practiced by people like Hitler and cultleaders.

Leaders EARN their position by proving to be honest, reliable and trustworthy – the more transparent, the better a leader.
A leader refusing to answer even basic questions would be like a big red warningsign in my book.  Only with a bunch of followers who are prepared to be led anywhere, anytime by anyone can such a person gain power. But these people are not following a leader, they are following a dictator, quite often dressed in the garb of an angel. 

Do not listen to the WORDS – watch the actions!
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Lodro on January 11, 2011, 11:18:12 am
I've been using my own name too, and my main email account in correspondence with Crowther.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: goozih on January 11, 2011, 12:49:46 pm
Interesting.... She has taken the time to stir us up....taunt even...
Any way ...I don't think Kiesha Crowther is her real name..nor is Little Grandmother....
As for her followers....It is sad ...beyond pathetic to follow such a phony baloney so blindly :o
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Twinkie_Slayer on January 11, 2011, 02:50:22 pm
 I've used my real name and email address in correspondence regarding this matter. She (or her mouthpiece) are just trying to spin and twist and hope their followers are baffled by large amounts of B.S. And yes, her name really is Kiesha Crowther...you can take that to the bank.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: luciddreamer on January 11, 2011, 08:12:17 pm
goozhi - yes they are pathetic, so blinded by this cult that they spout absolute nonsense and arrogance such as:

"WE are all native american when we embrace all beings healthy happy spirit way! Alot o those "Natives" are careless consumer power trippers. Peace and love is the Native world way ...and you are a Native American born here, loving Ecotopian values ...so shine on, sweat, call the 4 directions, see the world turning under the feet o the raging imposters and smile all knowingly! lol : )"......Disgusting

"Never mind ANY of the old ways. We are living in new energies ... follow your HEART?

I LoVe YOU~"...................pass me the bucket!!

You notice she also uses the word 'livelihood' in her response, doesn't your livelihood refer to how you make a living? and people asking questions is threatening that...says it all Kiesha dear

The bigger picture is that all those who follow her are blinded by her scam, which let's have it right isn't such a clever one after all, and in the meantime these 'lightworkers' are jeopardizing their own spiritual values by jumping in with their patronizing love spiel (and quite often attacks) in response to REAL spiritual people who are asking for truth.....That is the key to spiritual enlightenment isn't it..truth, why don't you 'get it'
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Saga on January 11, 2011, 09:02:46 pm
There is also this one little thing... I am occasional "spiritual sponge" when I don't watch it out, so I know what I am talking about. It is still making me sick occasionally. I KNOW absolutely, without a doubt that this white lighty scene is totally wrong to me, it only makes me cease from everything, ignore my loved ones (I happen to love my family and friends) and only talk, talk, talk endlessly online about what is good for this world (humans know that ofc) and do nothing about anything and soon I found out that I live like a zombie and only wait for the shift that I can stop pretending to be happy and superior and just die away and never come back... But, when I detach myself from all of it, like I know have, including the last groups where my best (online) friends were... I feel guilty. I am happier than ever, but the effect in those groups is so immense that you will be wondering it for a long time after, if you are actually risking your "spot in heaven" or something. Like in christianity. :p I really enjoy actually LIVING again and enjoying this world and digging into dirt and trying to work for the good things and for my dreams as well, but still, occasionally I feel sick about the past. Then again, further from it I go and more objective I look at it, to me it seems now pretty hypocrite movement... not just what Kiesha represents, but all of it... There's lots of good, twisted useless... Atleast to me. I still love some of the people who believe in that and most of them still are somewhat grounded as well and awesome people, and I accept them with everthing they are, but this scene. Well, it makes me puke. I need something that isn't about information gathering and sharing, but about the real spirituality, seeing other people as equal beings and the earth as nurturer we should take care of bit better and work to make good things happen. Anyway, just my point of view. :p

Sorry friends, if some of you reads this (I know some of them keep track of Kiesha stuff), I love you anyway, as you are.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: educatedindian on January 11, 2011, 09:21:34 pm
I've published this article on Crowther. It contains all our research to date, including genealogy and all her claims of elders supporting her debunked.

Pls repost widely. Quoting and linking to it are also fine.

-------------

http://www.indybay.org/newsitems/2011/01/11/18668858.php

Tribe of Many Colors or Tribe of Many Dollars?
By Dr. Al Carroll


Kiesha Crowther AKA “Little Grandmother” has garnered a lot of attention, over a thousand followers, perhaps millions in cash, and even more controversy in less than two years. Falsely claiming to be the “shaman” for the “Sioux Salish tribe,” Crowther has gathered an all white, mostly European “Tribe of Many Colors” around her with bizarre claims. Native activists and former followers have vowed to oppose her and expose her.


From Santa Fe to Sweden, Denmark, Germany, and the Netherlands, and soon to that most “American Indian” of places, Palm Springs, Kiesha Crowther draws crowds of hundreds with each gathering of ceremony selling, charging from several hundred to up to $6,000 a person. Crowther is a small red haired woman of 33, yet looks young enough to be a teenager. Adding to the strangeness, Crowther calls herself “Little Grandmother” (she is not one) and often talks in a little girl voice with fanciful (and largely false) stories about her childhood.

Crowther mixes in stories of vulnerability with dire prophecies of doom and fantastic claims, none of which are true. She claims to be the “shaman” for the “Sioux Salish tribe.” She claims to be the descendant of famous Lakota and Salish leaders, with a “fullblood Indian mother” and a grandmother supposedly on the reservation. Crowther claims to be made “shaman” by an alleged Salish elder named Falling Feathers. She claims to be recognized by dozens of tribes from New Zealand to United States to the Arctic Circle to Scandinavia to Central America. She claims to have been recognized by Native tribes at as young as age eight and to be the fulfillment of a supposed prophecy about a “fair haired girl.” She even suggests in one video that she is the returned White Buffalo Calf Woman of Lakota prophecy, a claim sure to outrage the Plains Indian tribes that hold the prophecy sacred.

Yet not a single one of these claims are true. Most are extremely obvious lies.



Who Is The Real Kiesha Crowther?

The real Kiesha Crowther was born Kiesha Rae Kreps in Sanford, Colorado, to a white middle class background, with a truck driver father and a mother owning small businesses. Her mother’s maiden name is Rodda. The Salish tribe she claims to have ancestry from do not have a single known person named Crowther, Kreps, or Rodda, either enrolled or known to the small and close knit community. (Most Salish have Irish last names given them by missionaries. A few Salish have traditional names, but none are ever translated into English.) The Salish elders in fact issued a public statement, saying officially she is not their “shaman,” asking her to quit claiming so, and pointing out no Salish had ever even heard of her. Their statement in full is at the end of this article.

Contrary to Crowther/Krep’s claim of a “fullblood Indian” mother and grandmother, there is no evidence of any Native ancestry in her family line. Her family ancestry has been traced back to her great-grandparents from England. Every census form lists all of her ancestors as white. No one else in the family has ever claimed to be or identified as American Indian, including her mother and grandmother. The only Natives in the family are two children (with no relation by blood) adopted by an uncle near Missoula, Montana. Kiesha Crowther’s mother and other family members have in fact urged her repeatedly to quit lying about the family ancestry.

Kiesha Kreps was raised as a Mormon and baptized into the Mormon Church at age eight at the same time she claims to have been recognized by Indian tribes and living alone in the woods. Crowther was married in the Mormon Church in Littleton, Colorado, and was a practicing member of the church only two years ago. She is married with two children, but separated from her husband and estranged from her entire family due to her “calling.”

In fact, absolutely no one in her family backs her claims of Native ancestry or being a “shaman.” A source very close to the family called her a “fraud” and “elaborate liar.” Numerous stories Kiesha Crowther tells at paid ceremonies are described as “lies,” such as claiming to have lived alone in the woods, nursing a dying owl, and being recognized by tribal leaders. The young Kiesha Kreps was actually fairly popular in school and not the lonely isolated kid she claims. Crowther's stranger lies include once giving a "Viking treasure ring" to her sister, who then noted one could see the trademark symbol on it.

The same source close to the family also claims Crowther’s veterinary degree is fake and came from an online degree mill, with the "degree" printed in notebook style paper rather than the stock paper degrees generally come on. It was also confirmed an animal rescue group Crowther claimed to have started is phony. The same source says Crowther plagiarized the poems she claimed to write and largely copied the paintings and other artwork she did.

Even Kiesha Crowther’s online biography as an artist is filled with falsehoods. She claimed to have been awarded Poet of the Year in 2003, 2004, and 2005 in separate cities. The “awards” are given out by the International Society of Poets, a pay to publish outfit that will include you in vanity editions for twenty five dollars each. She claimed her poem “Reach For My Hands” was made into a song by the “Willow Folk Group.” There is no sign of such a group, but there is a Willow Folk Festival in England. She claimed one of her poems was published in a book, “Poems for Peace,” chosen by former First Lady Laura Bush. There is no sign of the book nor of Laura Bush’s involvement, unless one counts her refusing to show up at a gathering of poets reciting poems opposed to the Iraq War. Crowther’s bio also claims she was “awarded the Life Experience Bachelors and holds a Masters Degree of Art from Almeda University.” Almeda University is an unaccredited online degree mill. In a 2004 expose by CBS News, a reporter successfully got his dog awarded a degree from Almeda.


How It All Began For a Would Be Shaman

Kiesha Crowther/Krep’s claims of how she became a “shaman” have changed rapidly and dramatically in less than two years since she began. In April of 2010, Crowther made the claim she originally had gotten a phone call from a group of all the Salish elders who told her she was the “fair haired child of prophecy” and they had a sacred bundle waiting for her made centuries ago.

But in June of 2010, that account changed. She claims instead an unnamed “Sioux man” made her a shaman.

That same month, Crowther also claimed she was made shaman by a group of “grandmothers” of both the Salish and “Sioux” tribes.

(Note for non-Native people: Natives generally don’t refer to the “Sioux” since this is an outdated outsider’s term. The actual tribes are called the Dakota, Lakota, and Nakoda, often called collectively the Lakota. There are dozens of Lakota bands at reservations and reserves. The Salish is an entirely different people and culture.)

In December 2010, Crowther’s story changed dramatically. No longer was there any mention of groups of women elders, nor of “Sioux men.” Instead she now claims there was a single Salish elder she calls Falling Feathers who made her “shaman for the Sioux and Salish tribes.”

There is no evidence at all that Falling Feathers ever existed, other than Crowther’s claims. Crowther claims he was an important elder, so widely known she assumed he was speaking for all Salish elders. The Salish elders have never heard of him and neither have any other Salish contacted for this article. His alleged name does not fit typical Salish names, which are either Irish or traditional Salish names not translated into English.

Conveniently, Crowther claims Falling Feathers recently died. There is no mention on tribal sites of a prominent elder dying recently. Crowther’s supporter, manager, and longtime friend Jennifer Ferraro also claims Falling Feathers was a member of the “governing council” for the “Confederated Sioux Salish.” Neither of those exists, but there is a tribal council for the Confederated Salish and Kootenai. The Lakota bands and tribes, as mentioned before, are spread across over two dozen reservations and reserves.

Only a few days after her December statement, Crowther changed her story in the most drastic way yet. She now claims to have never been teaching Native ways at all. This despite dressing up in American Indian regalia (though it was a shirt only worn by Native males), using what she seems to have believed was American Indian face paint, using what she claims was a Native pipe, and claiming her initiation came from Native elders, or alternately, a single Native elder who has passed away no one else ever heard of.

Crowther has also continually claimed the endorsement of numerous indigenous elders and other religious leaders, without evidence. Many of those she claims are Native elders actually are imposters.

She claims the endorsement of Cherokee elders. None of the traditional Cherokee elders in the Eastern Band ever heard of her.

She claims to have been recognized as a shaman by “lamas of Nepal and Tibet.” There are hundreds of such Buddhist teachers, but the only one she ever named was Lakha Lama, whom she met in Sweden. Lakha Lama gave her a blessing when Crowther asked for one, but this is neither an endorsement nor recognition, only kind words. Buddhist lamas, like American Indian traditionalists, also condemn teaching for a fee, especially very high fees as Crowther does.

Crowther also for a time claimed Sammi elders in Sweden authorized and endorsed her. Then her claim was removed from her websites. She further claimed Inuit elders gave her a crystal “from the North Pole” and that she was “giving the crystal back to the Sammi” when she buried the crystal in Sweden. There is no land, only ice at the North Pole. Crystals do not form in ice, only in land. Geologists consulted for this story say it likely is an ordinary crystal bought in a shop for less than 200 dollars, one dug up by strip mining.

On one of her visits to Sweden she claimed all Native tribes recognized and endorsed her, and that she was shaman for all of them. Since there are over 500 tribes in the US alone, the absurdity of this claim is obvious.

More recently, Crowther also claimed she was made shaman by a “Sioux” named Grandmother Lota or Lootha. Crowther also claims to be related to “Sioux” she calls Ciqalah Lotah and Ciqala Jensen. Fluent Lakota speakers we spoke to pointed out those words do not exist in the Lakota language. No one in any of the Lakota communities we contacted ever heard of Crowther or the people she claims to be related to or authorized her.

Crowther also claims the endorsement of Don Alejandro Cirilo Perez, sometimes called Wandering Wolf. Perez is a Mayan leader who appears on a number of New Age sites. However, there is no evidence of Perez ever endorsing Crowther. Perez is actually on record as strongly disagreeing and even mocking the claims of Crowther and other that the world will end in 2012. The maker of a documentary on Perez and Crowther denounced in fierce terms the “exploitation” of Perez by New Agers such as Crowther.

Crowther also is an associate of and claims the endorsement of two imposters who falsely claim to be Native elders, Adam DeArmon, a white New Age operator in Sedona, and John Kimmey, a white New Ager barred from the Hopi reservation and condemned by Hopi spiritual leaders for selling ceremony and making false claims.



The (All White) Tribe of Many Colors

Why would a self styled “shaman” who spent most of two years claiming Native elders authorized her suddenly claims to have never been doing Native teachings? Numerous family and friends of Crowther’s followers, as well as former followers, began to ask Native activists about the authenticity of her claims. By September of 2010, the chorus of criticism began to rise and put Crowther and her management on the defensive.

Crowther’s following she dubbed the Tribe of Many Colors has some striking characteristics. It has absolutely no Native members at all (including Crowther.) Outside of a member of Crowther’s management team, all seem to be exclusively white. Much like the Tea Party, they are also prone to throwing around the claim that they are hated supposedly for being white.

Such a claim falls apart because many of her critics are themselves white, especially former followers. The claim is even more striking because of the racism in some of the imagery and words used by Crowther and her “tribe.” In one trip to Sweden, Crowther spoke about the alleged superiority of Swedish people over all others. Crowther frequently claims all Native elders, or even all Native people, are supporting her, waiting for her, and depend upon her and her message even for their very survival. Of course, nothing could be further from the truth. Most Natives never heard of her. Those that have are strongly opposed to her.

Who is behind Crowther’s rapid rise among New Age leaders? Our source very close to the family says Crowther has no computer skills nor business or organizing acumen, nothing that could account for her success except a vivid imagination. The same source attributes everything Crowther has done to two people and one group; Adam DeArmon AKA Adam Yellowbird, a white New Age operator in Sedona; Santa Fe Soul, which sponsors some of Crowther’s talks; and especially Crowther’s longtime friend Jennifer Ferraro. Our source described Fierro as a failed performance artist who claims to be Native but is actually Italian and Greek. Online discussions between Crowther and Ferraro seem to show Ferraro as the real brains of the operation, the power behind the throne, her manager, website operator, and even her director. Crowther defers to her in public talks, and Ferraro frequently talks in one messages to Crowther like a mother to a small child.

Our source close to the family is worried the Tribe of Many Colors will "become another Jonestown" and is at a loss for how her family can get her to see sense. Whether the “tribe” self destruct violently is yet to be seen, but they are extraordinarily intolerant of dissent or criticism of any kind. Its website was heavily censored, with any daring to question Crowther kicked out. Recently their website was so overwhelmed by dealing with criticism it was taken down entirely. Crowther’s inner circle, especially Ferraro, have begun throwing around legal threats at any who dare to critique Crowther. Ferraro, though she is not a lawyer, sent threats to sue to at least five people. The “tribe” also sent infiltrators to sites critical to Crowther to gather information on critics.

There are currently plans for a book by Crowther, and two documentaries, one favorable to her and one critical. There are also ongoing plans for protests of Crowther’s ceremony selling by Native activists and her many non-Native critics. The Salish tribal council is considering legal action. The controversy is not going away.


Dr. Al Carroll is a historian, professor, former Fulbright Scholar, and activist for Native causes. His first book is Medicine Bags and Dog Tags: American Indian Veterans From Colonial Times to the Second Iraq War from University of Nebraska Press.

Research for this article includes contributions by numerous activists, former followers, Sky Davis and T. Tavares, and a source very close to the Crowther family. Annika Banfeld translated articles and radio interviews from Swedish to English.


Statement of the Salish Elders:

"The Culture and Elders Committee of the Confederated Salish and Kootenai Tribes of the Flathead Reservation protect the intangible cultural resources of the tribes including language, songs, stories etc.

"No tribal Elders or elders have met with nor do they condone the claims and actions made by Kiesha Crowther.

"She is not their 'shaman', she has no right to claim this title and the Elders and elders of CSKT of the Flathead Reservation would like her to cease and desist immediately from making such false claims that erode the traditions that members of the CSKT Culture and Elders Committee are trying to preserve."

The posting of this statement came with the permission and urging of the Salish elders. Anyone doubting this message's authenticity can contact the Flathead Reservation.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: luciddreamer on January 11, 2011, 10:08:06 pm
Excellent - will post and spread...thank you!
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: nemesis on January 11, 2011, 10:24:03 pm
Excellent work Al!   8)

Let's see how Crowther and her handlers try to squirm out of this considered and well researched expose.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: luciddreamer on January 11, 2011, 10:48:01 pm
So the article was posted on her page by someone  :-X and this is her response thus far:
"my goodness, this stuff just keeps getting better and better lol.. now im a millionare... someone should have told me lol.. someone has a good imagination... laughs.. how absurd...  if you have questions please ask.. but please i beg you to be a little more inteligent than what was written on that link..."

Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: luciddreamer on January 11, 2011, 10:49:06 pm
and then she deleted it....nay worries
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: AlaskaGrl on January 11, 2011, 11:23:10 pm
Great article!!

Don't forget to Tweet it all around.   
#Pagans   #Shaman  #NewAge  #Spirituality

This is a list of popular Twitter Hash Tags #   
http://listorious.com/tags    Click on the topics to see a list of groups and tags to use.
Make Twitter a part of your Activism tools, as well as your local FB pages to reach your towns and cities
as well as groups.   
 

Linda.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Teacher on January 12, 2011, 01:01:29 am
what a super article!  I posted it to my FB page under "notes" then "shared" it on the page ... hopefully it will go somewhere :-)
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: goozih on January 12, 2011, 02:03:19 am
The Article is brilliant! No stone left unturned. 8)
Her response on the other hand can only be described as deranged. :-\
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: luciddreamer on January 12, 2011, 02:14:30 am
I like how intelligent is typed wrong...sorry being  nonspiritual now  ;D

The article is also posted here http://www.indiancountrytoday.com/yourict/113315469.html

I won't be able to see how she responds now, I had to defriend her, couldn't stomach it anymore
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: critter - a white non-ndn person on January 12, 2011, 02:58:18 am
Awesome.

Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Superdog on January 12, 2011, 03:02:10 am
I kinda wondered about all the claims about Kiesha's artwork made on the artwanted.com page so I looked into the Jack Dempsey Stamp she says she designed here.

http://www.artwanted.com/artist.cfm?ArtID=22948&Tab=Bio

"Kiesha Crowther, born and currently residing in Colorado's beautiful San Luis Valley, has been recognized in both of the mediums she chooses to work in, Art and Poetry. At the young age of 23 her rendition of Jack Dempsey, The Manassa Mauler, was chosen by the United States Postal Service for replication on a postage stamp honoring the great boxer. Her art work has been featured in galleries from Taos, New Mexico to Edinburgh, Scotland. Kiesha's poetry has brought both national and international acclaim and recognition. She has been awarded Poet of the year in Washington DC for 2003. Philadelphia PA in 2004, Orlando, FL in 2005 and last year received the prestigious award again in Las Vegas NV. Part of her work is now contained in a book/project spearheaded by First Lady, Laura Bush entitled "Poems for Peace". Many of her poems have been included on a soon to be released CD entitled "Creative Poetic Expressions" which will be released worldwide in the near future. One of her poems has now been used as the lyrics of a popular song released during the summer of 2006. The poem "Reach for my Hand" has become the lyrics of a song by the same name recorded and released by the Willows Folk Group from Warwickshire, United Kingdom. It has been heard on radios all across the United Kingdom. Her poetry has been included in numerous books distributed world wide including, Colors of the Heart, Eternal Portraits, Letters from the Soul, The Sound of Poetry, Theater of the Mind and has been featured in the annual publication "The best Poets of 2002, 2004 and 2005. The reception and success of her writing in poetry has led to the publication of two books solely devoted to her work and demonstrates her love of poetry. "Whispers in the Wind" printed in 2003 and "Secrets of the Soul" printed in 2006. Both books have been sold here in the United States and in Europe. A part of Kiesha's success is reflected in her giving nature. She has been asked to share her talents by giving art instruction for the public in her home area including teach of art classes in several southern Colorado rural schools. She has participated as an art judge and critic at numerous art Fairs and competitions. Her credentials include a Bachelors in Small Business and a degree in Animal Science. She has recently been awarded the Life Experience Bachelors and holds a Masters Degree of Art from Alameda University "
---------------------------------

I kind of left it alone because it didn't necessarily go with the forum subject, but the Jack Dempsey stamp stood out to me....so I looked into it a little.  Kiesha is 32 right now and she states in her bio above that the stamp was commisioned when she was 23.  That's 9 years ago making that somewhere around 2001.  The problem is the Jack Dempsey stamp came out in 1998 after a lengthy campaign started by his widow in 1995.  Anyone can confirm the stamp's date here (just scroll down or do a page search for dempsey):

http://www.stampcatalogue.org/2008/10/us-stamps-1998.html

It's from the "Celebrate the 1910's" series stamp #13 originally sold for $.32.

Even if I'm wrong on the year for Crowther claim I'd only be off by 1 year making it...at the earliest 2000 when she claims her art was commissioned for this stamp.  2 years after the stamp was actually issued.

I've also checked into the "Poems for Peace" project she claims to have been part of....I can't find any existence of it either.  There is a project Laura Bush is associated with called "Poets Against War".  Close, Kiesha...but no cigar for that one.  The site contains over 22,000 poems submitted since it's inception, has a search engine and lists the names of every poet along with the poem and where the poet is from.  She's not listed there.  
http://www.poetsagainstthewar.org/

As for the two books "Whispers in the Wind" and "Secrets of the Soul"....can't find those books either.  *Modifying the post to add something here*  These two titles are not uncommon titles for poems.  There's more than one of the same name.  For books of poetry I found a few...none of them by Kiesha, or featuring Kiesha or having anything to do with her.
"Whispers in the Wind" by Jeanine Allison
http://www.amazon.com/Whispers-Wind-collection-Jeanine-Allison/dp/0759671362

and "Secrets of the Soul" by Paula Lafran Gillian-Williams
http://search.barnesandnoble.com/books/product.aspx?r=1&isbn=9781449080563&cm_mmc=Google%20Product%20Search-_-Q000000630-_-Secrets%20of%20the%20Soul-_-9781449080563

Seems the "elaborate liar" title given by a family member may be a sufficient description of her behavior and it's obvious it didn't start with the outrageous claim about being "initiated as a shaman over the Sioux/Salish tribes."

AND even the Almeda University claims are complete are completely dubious

It is an online diploma mill and widely regarded as such as Al had pointed out....the life experience degrees entails applying, paying, listing your life experiences and work, they don't verify any of your claims and then offer you a degree based on what you told them.  One persons experience with them is chronicled here.

http://www.viewpoints.com/Almeda-University-Experiential-Learning-Degrees-review-68c3


Superdog
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: AlaskaGrl on January 12, 2011, 03:24:07 am

These are typical hash tags #    I am seeing on spreading the Kiesha articles, vids etc.
If you have any I missed, that you've been using, add them to the list.

#RacialJustice
#Tarot
#NewAge
#Shamans
#Pagan
#KieshaCrowther 

Below is a tease to encourage readers to visit articles via Twitter feeds.  This is Al's article, with hash tags attached:

Kiesha Crowther Little Grandmother Article http://bit.ly/fXo3ZQ  #newage  #shamans #Pagan #RacialJustice #Tarot #NewAge #KieshaCrowther

Yes, you can Shorten URLS in Twitter.

Linda.

Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: luciddreamer on January 12, 2011, 04:08:43 am
she's 33 now, same age as me...so 2000 she would have been 23
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Superdog on January 12, 2011, 04:18:37 am
she's 33 now, same age as me...so 2000 she would have been 23

Yep, precisely...still two years after the Jack Dempsey stamp was issued in 1998.  It seems she's pathological when it comes to lying....I'm not sure she even notices or has the ability to discern between truth and fantasy anymore...

Not wanting to sound hateful...I mean this in a good way...I feel she may need institutional help in order to gain her grip on reality.  Hearing voices is another sign for that.

Superdog
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: luciddreamer on January 12, 2011, 04:29:54 am
Aye...many theories, some even think she's mind controlled and that's why her voice slightly changes into monotone whilst she is channeling 'LG' and that she may be actually totally unaware of being used as a manipulation tool for profit; who knows. That PR woman of hers has been described as speaking to her like a child...interesting.


There's a vid about to go up on youtube of her interview today (yesterday 11/1/11) under this account
 http://www.youtube.com/user/liloumace ..I'm getting popcorn  ;D after some shut eye that is!
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Freija on January 12, 2011, 08:00:18 am
Just wanted to say THANK YOU to all of you having contributed to this great article.
Al made such a good job of getting it together, but I know there has been a lot of work amongst activists to dig out all the facts.

Well done! ;D
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: czech on January 12, 2011, 08:06:26 am
Thank you so much for this article, I will repost.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: nemesis on January 12, 2011, 08:52:38 am
This is an interesting LG video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sNlGhOiAyc0

I have only watched the first few seconds but the video was clearly produced by an Osho follower as denoted by the word "Juicy"

Lilou Mace's youtube channel has a logo with "Juicy living for you" written on it.

In the first few seconds of the video the subtitles say "Little Grandmother invites us to be part of her juicy life"

The Osho people can be IDd by their frequent use of the word "juicy" which seems to mean sexy and good generally (sexy and good being pretty much equivalent terms for them).  

IME the Osho people tend to be intelligent but lacking even general powers of scepticism and discernment.
It will be interesting to see how this pans out.

OK watched some more of the video and the first few minutes are definitely worth watching.  Some real in depth lies and fantasies going on.  It's a tour of Crowther's home complete with her "art" and her various "sacred objects" complete with claims about where she got them from.  After that section there is no sound, so the rest is not worth watching

This however is interesting

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zS-6TKc3XF4&feature=channel

LG on how to deal with negative attacks

Basically is to adopt a stance of
(http://lawyer1point9.files.wordpress.com/2009/02/gollum_not_listening.jpg)

"La la la I'm not listening"
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: goozih on January 12, 2011, 09:57:46 am
Kiesha- You did this to yourself...You lied...You thought that no one would ever catch you...You said you are a light worker and only want to teach love and it is negative people that want to stop your message of love...You are the only one who brought this down...You Dressed up and painted your face in what you thought looked Native American, you held a pipe up to pose for a photo-op in what you thought was Native American..You yourself did not really believe your message as a "light worker" so you had to invent props and make up lies....You got caught and now YOU are not showing any remorse, I see no compassion in your words...Your message is Empty...I hope people will not get sucked into your lies...And did I Say Kiesha it is all your own doing...
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Saga on January 12, 2011, 10:20:58 am
She actually talks against everything she is actually doing, little conflict there. :)

If it TRULY is the message that matters, why not to stop supporting the phony act that actually hurts people and even earth in so many levels.

The crystals planted in the places where they don't belong... that might be the very thing that disturbs the energyfield on earth. She encourages everyone to plant crystals on earth now and to wear them, saying that in the old days EVERYONE wore crystal on their necks (in new heart consciousness vid, liloumace channel) - wonder how she knows that... there's not any seen spike in rock crystal/quartz jewelry finds in archealogy afaik, glass, turquoise, jade... yes, but can't at least remember any specific mention about rock crystals being worn. And ofc saying that the ley lines need to be activated... they have been doing fine - forever - so why would they need crystals brough from strip mines in them... I'd go for activating the energy in the quartz inside the earth, if it needs to be done...
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: educatedindian on January 12, 2011, 01:35:18 pm
Superdog, that's pretty much what I found. Except for the Dempsey stamp. Wish I'd found that and I'd have included it.

I want to thank the many who did research, made contacts, built timelines of what Crowther was up to, provided translations, etc. Without you, the article would still be weeks away from being done.

Good to see the article in ICT also. There's already a comment on it. Amusing, it's Almeda defending itself.

Of course people are welcome to comment at both ICT and Indybay. Might want to do that to avoid Crowther's people flooding the articles with silly claims and the usual Nuage nonsense defenses "it's the message that matters" etc.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: taraverti on January 12, 2011, 06:10:09 pm
Absolutely wonderful article. I've passed it on.

I agree it looks more and more like Kiesha is a pathologic liar. She also does not seem to have any awareness of the ultimate consequences of continuing to pile lie upon lie upon lie, which is that eventually one loses credibility with just about everyone. Although, with a world full of the gullible unaware, I suppose she could find clueless victims for years to come. But this gig as a "shameon" will eventually play itself out, I think.  Due, to a great degree to all the hard work done by folks here. Incredible job of research. Bravo!

Nemisis, that is interesting the association between the word juicy and Osho. I never knew that, and I do know people who use that word, to denote something especially interesting, without a sexual connotation, who are not to my knowledge associated with Osho. It may be gaining a more widespread use.

Nona
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: critter - a white non-ndn person on January 12, 2011, 06:41:23 pm
Well, she's a pathological liar with a penchant for scamming people.. she may one day
find herself in jail.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Defend the Sacred on January 12, 2011, 06:59:15 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5VzIE2pMfPc

Part one of yesterday's interview with the "Juicy" French woman outside Kiesha's house in Santa Fe (or near Santa Fe).

Still claiming to be "One of the 12 Wisdom Keepers for the Planet".

Claiming "We are all connected to Great Spirit" ... ahem, KC, that's an NDN thing. (Or, in this case, a pretendian thing.)

23:55 she starts talking about negative people trying to destroy her "livelihood".  

"There are energies that do not want us to rise above. They do not want us to live in love." (They hate our freedom!)

In part one she is not in her fake regalia, and the only NDN thing she said (a number of times) was "Great Spirit". But at the end, in what looks like a promo for part two, she has all sorts of pretendian bling on the wall behind her. Fluffy dreamcatchers, shields, and a large, NDN-style drum.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: nemesis on January 12, 2011, 07:34:37 pm

Nemisis, that is interesting the association between the word juicy and Osho. I never knew that, and I do know people who use that word, to denote something especially interesting, without a sexual connotation, who are not to my knowledge associated with Osho. It may be gaining a more widespread use.

Nona

Thanks for that Nona

I cannot claim that the word is used exclusively by Sannyasins / Osho people but they really do love using the word and Osho himself used to use it a lot also, as a google for "Osho" and "juicy" will demonstrate.  There are juicy meditation centres, juicy discos, juicy workshops, juicy everything really. 

Alternatively a word search at http://www.osho.com/Library/Library-Search  of "juicy" (all words all book by occurrence) =

Your Search Term(s) juicy Appears 701 Times on 518 Page(s)

Which I think is quite a lot  ;D

I have only ever heard / read the word used as meaning sexy/ good when listening to / reading Osho related people / stuff but I have probably lead a sheltered life (in some respects at least - in others definitely not) ;)

I would be genuinely interested in the use of the word in that context outside of Osho related sub-cultures.  Languages does change and mutate and this could be an example of that.  Do you live in Sedona or some similar place with many newagers by any chance?
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Diana on January 12, 2011, 08:16:12 pm
Hey, what happened to Dr. Carroll's article on ICT? I read it this morning and went back this afternoon to see if anyone had commented and now it's gone!! Did Dr. Carroll pull it or did that rag of a news paper ICT pull it. Just wondering.


Lim lemtsh,


Diana
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Saga on January 12, 2011, 08:39:46 pm
It seems that the author of the article is questioned himself, someone posted a link in the other place (indybay? or something, too lazy to check up couple pages back :p) where the article is. Maybe they've sent it to the ict as well. (I posted the article forward as well today and was answered that the writer is claimed to be a fraud as well, so there seems to be rumors going on in all corners.) Old "enemies" dragged back to haunt?

All of us are probably imaginary people to some Kiesha supporters tho... :)
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: taraverti on January 12, 2011, 08:48:51 pm

Thanks for that Nona

I cannot claim that the word is used exclusively by Sannyasins / Osho people but they really do love using the word and Osho himself used to use it a lot also, as a google for "Osho" and "juicy" will demonstrate.  There are juicy meditation centres, juicy discos, juicy workshops, juicy everything really.  

Alternatively a word search at http://www.osho.com/Library/Library-Search  of "juicy" (all words all book by occurrence) =

Your Search Term(s) juicy Appears 701 Times on 518 Page(s)

Which I think is quite a lot  ;D

I have only ever heard / read the word used as meaning sexy/ good when listening to / reading Osho related people / stuff but I have probably lead a sheltered life (in some respects at least - in others definitely not) ;)

I would be genuinely interested in the use of the word in that context outside of Osho related sub-cultures.  Languages does change and mutate and this could be an example of that.  Do you live in Sedona or some similar place with many newagers by any chance?

 ;D Haha, no much worse than that. I am a certified life coach, and I encountered the word during my coaches training.  It is used in this context. “That is a juicy topic.” “ That was a juicy conversation.”  Ie a topic or conversation rich in content and meaning, one that enriches and satisfies and helps forward growth, in a pleasing and positive way. Now I only self defined from hearing it used in context, and there is a huge cross pollinization between the coaching/self development community and the new age/$cam community, so it would not surprise me if some coach learned it from Osho and introduced it to the coaching community or vice versa.

Coaches run the gamut from the hard line business coaches that coach Fortune 500 executives to some of the most airy fairy woo woo people you can imagine. And a lot of folks (like James Arthur Ray) claim to be coaches, but don’t have any real coaching credentials or training. So coaching has a bad name in some circles because of what some folks claiming to be coaches and some coaches have done. But we do have a professional orgainzation that has developed practice and ethics standards. And most coaches are good folk dedicated to helping others define and be their best. A few bad apples, ya know .....

Well this is off topic for this thread, but that’s the answer to your question.


 Nona

p.s. it occurs to me that just as sometimes a cigar is just a smoke, sometimes juicy is just a really great adjective. And sometimes it's code .... and now I know to be cautious. Thank you for the new knowledge.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Defend the Sacred on January 12, 2011, 09:44:06 pm
The article has now been posted many places. It's on Indy Media here: http://www.indybay.org/newsitems/2011/01/11/18668858.php

Saga, after fighting the exploiters for decades, Al has his stalkers. Pretendians and other frauds who've lost their ability to cash in by exploiting Indigenous traditions are not happy with those who expose them. Newagers, racists, appropriators, exploiters and predators that Al has exposed have tried very hard to silence him and get this forum shut down.  See this thread: http://www.newagefraud.org/smf/index.php?topic=1234.0
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Defend the Sacred on January 12, 2011, 09:51:17 pm
Speaking of James Arthur Deathlodge Ray... the new Kiesha videos are by traveling French newager Lilou, who frequently mentions Ray et al's "Law of Attraction". Lilou says on her YouTube page that this whole series of videos, and her life right now, is about the Law of Attraction.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: czech on January 12, 2011, 09:54:09 pm
after fighting the exploiters for decades, Al has his stalkers. Pretendians and other frauds who've lost their ability to cash in by exploiting Indigenous traditions are not happy with those who expose them. Newagers, racists, appropriators, exploiters and predators that Al has exposed have tried very hard to silence him and get this forum shut down. 

Exactly Kathryn, I thought this morning when I read that article that it takes real courage to "take your skin to the market" (Czech saying) and face all the attacks that inevitably follow
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: critter - a white non-ndn person on January 12, 2011, 10:00:04 pm
Speaking of James Arthur Deathlodge Ray... the new Kiesha videos are by traveling French newager Lilou, who frequently mentions Ray et al's "Law of Attraction". Lilou says on her YouTube page that this whole series of videos, and her life right now, is about the Law of Attraction.

Well, quite clearly KC is attracting tons trouble.. what else could you attract with lies and offense? 
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Diana on January 12, 2011, 10:05:27 pm
It seems that the author of the article is questioned himself, someone posted a link in the other place (indybay? or something, too lazy to check up couple pages back :p) where the article is. Maybe they've sent it to the ict as well. (I posted the article forward as well today and was answered that the writer is claimed to be a fraud as well, so there seems to be rumors going on in all corners.) Old "enemies" dragged back to haunt?

All of us are probably imaginary people to some Kiesha supporters tho... :)

This is unbelievable, ICT constantly publishes' articles, letters and op-pieces from questionable people, wannabes and out-right fakes. Again, this is why I cancelled my subscription years ago. They don't fact check anyone, and when a legitimate College Professer posts an article with varifiable facts it's taken down. Unbelievable!!


Lim lemtsh,

Diana 
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: debbieredbear on January 12, 2011, 10:45:19 pm
wonder if the IRS knows how much money she is raking in? They ALWAYS want their cut!
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: ska on January 13, 2011, 05:22:31 am
In a conversation about the word "juicy", Nemesis said

"I cannot claim that the word is used exclusively by Sannyasins / Osho people . . ."

This comment made me want to clarify something, please.

The word "sannyasin" has nothing to do with Osho people or any cult or confusion-based group, except that their usage of this term would be another example of the misappropriation of Hindi and Hindu spiritual practices and beliefs.

In Hindi, "sannyasin" is the term to refer to a renunciate, one who has renounced the material world.  Immersed in spiritual life, the sannyasin is detached from all worldly pursuits and desires.  Many Hindus believe that life unfolds in certain stages, and such detachment is an aspiration.  But no one who understands this way of life would ever refer to themselves in this way.  Only those who are deeply revered are referred to as sannyasin, for example, those we consider saints.

A sannyasin is very unlikely to use the term "juicy".

When I hear, or hear of, an individual calling himself/herself yogi, sannyasin, tantric, sadhu, sadhika, dakini, or even ghandarva (!!! yes, I have even heard this one) it is evidence of this one's lack of sincerity, humility and understanding.  For me, it would be a sure sign that such a person does not possess any esoteric knowledge or even common sense, for that matter.

ska
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: nemesis on January 13, 2011, 10:17:47 am
Thanks for the clarification ska

I used the word because it is a word they use to describe themselves and have done since the 80s, although I understand that some of them no longer do.

They even have various website that incorporate the word into the URL, e.g. www.neosannyas.org/ www.sannyas.net www.sannyasnews.com the list goes on.

I think that your point about appropriation is important though and I will not use the term in the future.

Please accept my apologies for any offence caused.



Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: ska on January 13, 2011, 01:45:28 pm
There is no need to apologize, nemesis, indeed I am glad that you brought this to our attention. 

Those who label themselves as "sannyasin" are only revealing themselves, their hubris and their silliness.  They are playing and putting on a performance, because they lack any real understanding or connection to the ways that they are trying to claim.

Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: educatedindian on January 13, 2011, 01:50:31 pm
It's amazing she can be so flagrant about how much money she's making off of her exploitation. The listings for homes in Santa Fe say the absolute cheapest ones go for $98,000. Much more typical is $200-300,000. A year and a half ago she was a failed artist, now she's buying and furnishing homes that the average Native could never afford.

ICT article is back up. It doesn't surprise me that Crowther's crowd issued empty legal threats to get it pulled at first.
http://www.indiancountrytoday.com/yourict/113392914.html
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: KrazyKraut on January 13, 2011, 03:01:04 pm
alas, I think she is relevant for our wiki. Here is my attempt:
Quote
Kiesha Crowther (b. 1978), aka ''Little Grandmother'' is an artist and poet from Sanford, Colorado, who claims to be of native american descent. Her website states she has been initiated as shaman at age 30 by a Native American elder and that she is a Wisdom Keeper of the ''tribe of many colors''. However, the details of this story change over time and are adapted to what is exposed. She also performs indigenous ceremonies for cash for a mostly white and european audience, which is similar to asking money for a mass. Further, she engages in the 2012 hype and other New-Age esoterics. Background checks revealed neither she nor any of her ancestors are known in the salish community where she claims to have her roots. She even suggests in one video that she is the returned White Buffalo Calf Woman of Lakota prophecy, a claim sure to outrage the Plains Indian tribes that hold the prophecy sacred.
Her actions are not welcome by the native american community. The salish elders issued a statement as follows:



"The Culture and Elders Committee of the Confederated Salish and Kootenai Tribes of the Flathead Reservation protect the intangible cultural resources of the tribes including language, songs, stories etc.

"No tribal Elders or elders have met with nor do they condone the claims and actions made by Kiesha Crowther.

"She is not their 'shaman', she has no right to claim this title and the Elders and elders of CSKT of the Flathead Reservation would like her to cease and desist immediately from making such false claims that erode the traditions that members of the CSKT Culture and Elders Committee are trying to preserve."



As a poet, Mrs. Crowther claims to have been awarded Poet of the Year in 2003, 2004, and 2005 in separate cities. The “awards” are given out by the International Society of Poets, a pay to publish outfit that will include you in vanity editions for twenty five dollars each.
Further, her website claims she has a veterinary degree. However, its from an online title mill.


References
* http://www.indiancountrytoday.com/yourict/113392914.html
* http://www.newagefraud.org/smf/index.php?topic=2871.780
* http://www.tribeofmanycolors.net
* http://www.artwanted.com/artist.cfm?ArtID=22948&Tab=Bio
http://www.artwanted.com/artist.cfm?ArtID=22948&Tab=Bio

Feel free to critizize and correct. Once we have a stable version, I will translate to german, too. There are no critical german google hits on her, we need to change that.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Peasant on January 13, 2011, 04:10:12 pm
This is a reply someone made at the topic about KC on the Rick Ross cult education forums:

http://forum.rickross.com/read.php?12,95049,96664#msg-96664

"I emailed Grandfather Alejandro's Shift of the Ages Site a couple of weeks ago,
and the coordinator responded (by email) that Wandering Wolf does not support Kiesha Crowther's teachings,
and that she mentions his name without his permission."
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: czech on January 13, 2011, 04:47:36 pm
There are no critical german google hits on her, we need to change that.

There are none in Czech or Slovak, either. We need to change that, too.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: AlaskaGrl on January 13, 2011, 05:12:16 pm
I am on the Profits Conference FaceBook page and there is now someone asking "any comment on the article published by Al Carroll?"
The poster has their "Activities/Interest"  as the Tribe of Many Colors.  So people are asking continuing to ask questions... or perhaps
asking them for the first time.

Linda.  
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: AlaskaGrl on January 13, 2011, 06:30:06 pm
The question just disappeared....  active editing going on over there....

Yeah, a new one just appeared.. I have not included the posters name/handle. 


""" would like to ask for a response in regards to the article written by Dr Al Carroll? It appears that this woman is a fraud. Someone else asked this same question and posted it here and it seems to be removed???, does that mean my posting will be removed too? are you actively censoring?? if so...why?
11 seconds ago""""
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: luciddreamer on January 13, 2011, 06:39:04 pm
The question just disappeared....  active editing going on over there....

Will just have to keep posting back the same question then...  :) C
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: AlaskaGrl on January 13, 2011, 06:46:20 pm
The question just disappeared....  active editing going on over there....

Will just have to keep posting back the same question then...  :) C

No place to post now or "Like" a topic. 
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: luciddreamer on January 13, 2011, 06:52:33 pm
The question just disappeared....  active editing going on over there....

Will just have to keep posting back the same question then...  :) C

No place to post now or "Like" a topic. 

I've posted the question and the link to Al's article separately, also posted the article link on most of the kiesha vids on the page. If it enlightens one person to her scam, I'll be happy
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Defend the Sacred on January 13, 2011, 06:58:23 pm
Ska, thank your for bringing up the Osho people's appropriation, misrepresentation, and attempts to rededfine "sannyasin". I am also very bothered by the damage they've wrought, and not only on Westerners' impressions of Hindu and Tantric traditions.

It also bothers me greatly how "Namaste" has become a common phrase among the Newagers. I've seen non-NDN, non-Hindu, non-Asian newagers claim, "I've never appropriated anything from anyone!" and then sign it "Namaste". *sigh*

Krazy Kraut, since the ICT link hasn't been completely stable, I'd also include the link to Al's article on IndyMedia: http://www.indybay.org/newsitems/2011/01/11/18668858.php
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: oneforall on January 13, 2011, 08:00:58 pm
Here is an update from KC-LG Facebook, which is of interest i think.  A person posted this to KC's page:

"Dear Kiesha..get the Elders and the Wisdom keepers to confirm your story A.S.A.P..for there are some angry Europeans who want there money back..stay strong and and do not give the negative energy even a thought..everything is going well...Hugs???"

Next KC's reply to this:

"do not believe in hate and lies (name removed)... no one should have to waist their energy PROVING that their life has not been a fraud... anyone that reads that crap can see that who ever is doing this is picking at everything and anything they can to prove me a fraud. Dont you think i can prove all of it a lie.. do you not think i can prove my degree or a non profit company i started? come on.... i will not stoop so low! and i shouldnt be expected to either!"

Need I say that for someone who states that "do not believe in hate and lies" KC has lied repeatedly to and about others who are coming forward to refute the claims that she made?  I wish this woman would come clean and admit that she has made claims that have outraged people.  This is not LOVE, LOVE does NOT operate from LIES!   

OK as I write I hear John Lennon's "Instant Karma" Playing in my head, and those lyrics sure do seem to point to the Little Fair Haired Mormon Girl whose fantasy dream world has crashed in around her.   

Instant karmas gonna get you
Gonna knock you right on the head
You better get yourself together
Pretty soon youre gonna be dead
What in the world you thinking of
Laughing in the face of love
What on earth you tryin to do
Its up to you, yeah you

Instant karmas gonna get you
Gonna look you right in the face
Better get yourself together darlin
Join the human race
How in the world you gonna see
Laughin at fools like me
Who in the hell do you think you are
A super star
Well, right you are

Well we all shine on
Like the moon and the stars and the sun
Well we all shine on
Everyone come on

Instant karmas gonna get you
Gonna knock you off your feet
Better recognize your brothers
Everyone you meet
Why in the world are we here
Surely not to live in pain and fear
Why on earth are you there
When youre everywhere
Come and get your share

Well we all shine on
Like the moon and the stars and the sun
Yeah we all shine on
Come on and on and on on on
Yeah yeah, alright, uh huh, ah

Well we all shine on
Like the moon and the stars and the sun
Yeah we all shine on
On and on and on on and on

Well we all shine on
Like the moon and the stars and the sun
Well we all shine on
Like the moon and the stars and the sun
Well we all shine on
Like the moon and the stars and the sun
Yeah we all shine on
Like the moon and the stars and the sun
 
:'( Pride comes before a Fall, Who will catch you as you fall from Grace into Disgrace?  Instant Karma indeed, hope she comes clean.  As KC-LG has stated these are the times when all lies and liars will be dissolved. And The Universe says: "Your Wish Is My Command"  Peace Out!   :P


 
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: luciddreamer on January 13, 2011, 08:18:53 pm
KC - "Dont you think i can prove all of it a lie.. do you not think i can prove my degree or a non profit company i started? come on.... i will not stoop so low! and i shouldnt be expected to either!" - Another tactic.."I will not stoop so low" what a crock...it's simple, it's not hard Kiesha..I don't understand why it's so hard. If this was me I would have no problem with it..in fact I'd do it to move forward in my life. It's pretty obvious it's all lies.

On my prophets conference post as suspected I receive this response from one of her followers:
"In case you missed it - Al Carroll is the Fraud! Google him - other than his own self-aggrandizing, using fake ID's, he is revealed to be a "Pretendian" - never once offering ANY validation of his own claim of being "part Indian" while misc...onnecting tidbits of online info to suit his own art of camoflage - by drawing the attention away from his lies and fraud by attacking another.
Whether Miss Crowther has mis-spoken can best be addressed by her - not by someone determined to criticize everything from her art awards when she was child to relying on outdated cached mis-information and ignoring current facts. Doubt anything affiliated with this man's name - and his stable of uninformed all white followers, his henchman Kathryn, and his legion of marching Sock Puppets!"

To which my response is this to him and anyone else looking at this page questioning the article:
"Thank you but I'd much rather prefer a response from the admin here as requested not one of her blind followers, which I used to be btw ;)
Dr Al Carroll has had attempts of reputation sabotage due to the amount of people he has exposed in th...e past as frauds...bound to happen if you think about logically..and I bet all you found was 3 pages referring to the same case eh, you see I looked into his background too, then used common sense..it is allowed :))"

p.s when I say followers..I watched her first vid, thought her message was cool (nothing new tho) then ceased to listen to her the minute she asked for donations....the downhill spiral seem to begin from there for myself and many others
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: luciddreamer on January 13, 2011, 08:26:14 pm
oneforall - that's my favourite Lennon tune!

Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: luciddreamer on January 13, 2011, 11:27:33 pm
So...Prophets Conference deleted all my comments and kicked me out of the group, they didn't respond.

Seems they don't mind advertising frauds
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: AlaskaGrl on January 14, 2011, 12:56:48 am
So...Prophets Conference deleted all my comments and kicked me out of the group, they didn't respond.

Seems they don't mind advertising frauds

Hi Lucid.. this is typical behavior exhibited by Frauds and those who hang with them, the followers. 
The Frauds don't like being questioned (and they tend to speak through their minions and followers.)   
That's my long time personal experience.  However their behavior only makes one more diligent in their convictions and
actions IMHO regarding people like this.  We hear about "Fraud" almost daily on the news... someone
ripping off someone or some business etc.. and everyone gets up in arms about it...  When there is fraud on
a much larger scale going on all the time by people like this bilking others and cultures of their $pirituality. 
I don't know where I was going with this, just musing into my coffee.   Give it some time and log back in.
Don't forget to use Twitter to spread the articles....

Linda.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: KrazyKraut on January 14, 2011, 10:12:46 am
http://www.esowatch.com/en/index.php?title=Kiesha_Crowther

We will translate to german and blog about her asap.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Saga on January 14, 2011, 08:40:02 pm
http://littlegrandmother.net/SHIFTINGEARTH.aspx

Quote: "If you listen, none of the indigenous elders or wisdom keepers on our planet are saying, “Now you must go and do something.”  They are saying, “Be.” They are telling us to be the change, to focus on “being” rather than on doing, for once. "

Hmm... I kind of remember indigenous people talking about preserving and protecting the earth as well as "spiritual approach" ie being thankful and praying and protecting the sacred sites etc...

Whole text
Quote
We are all living at a very profound time on our planet. Mother Earth is going through a shift she has never gone through quite like this before. We are living on the planet in a time that has never been before. The planet is going to start shifting and changing and moving into her High Self. She will change into her own kind of heaven. This is the time of great change that all indigenous peoples have been speaking about for hundreds and hundreds of years, and since the great fall of Atlantis, a very real civilization that existed here. A great shift happened then, when the poles shifted. Long before that shift they had been a highly developed and beautiful people—They knew how to use and utilize the energies of crystals, water, sound, of light and color. They knew how to listen to Mother Earth, and how to work side by side with our brothers and sisters from different places in the universe, the star beings. They interacted with them side by side.

I use the term “star beings” because in my experience a majority of them are loving beautiful beings. They have been here since the beginning of time. They have always been coming and going here, and as our energy attunes to a higher frequency we will be able to see these light beings, who are of a higher frequency. Soon all of humanity will be aware of their presence. At the time of Atlantis, we human beings worked side by side with the star beings, and we lived on Mother Earth as we should, for a long span of time in the history of that civilization. But then the great shift happened, and the ice melted that covered up much of the land, and we as human beings had to start over, spiritually speaking. We hear the story in the Bible of the great flood. You can hear this story in many indigenous cultures on the planet as well, because it did happen. But not everyone was wiped away. The people who knew it was coming got into their boats and dispersed out to other countries, taking some of the sacred Atlantean crystals with them.

Some of the Atlanteans went to South America—these are the roots of the Mayan people today. Some went to North America. There were already indigenous peoples living here, but there are some tribes whose ancestry goes back to the Atlanteans.  Another very advanced civilization that existed in our ancient earth history were the Lemurians. These people eventually dispersed and settled on the different islands and are now the ancestors of the Hawaiian people and the Waitaha in New Zealand, even more ancient than the Maori. These peoples today survive and carry within them very ancient teachings and wisdom, some of it from the star beings.

As a wisdom keeper, one of my sacred duties is to return some of these sacred ancient crystals to the earth, at the time of this current shift that Mother Earth is going through.  I have in my care several very special crystals from the time of Atlantis; other wisdom keepers have others that they have been entrusted with, to return to Earth. I am told where they need to go by my elders and by Spirit. So far I have placed crystals in the Earth in sacred ceremony in Santa Fe, New Mexico, the ancient land of the Anasazi; in Sweden for the lands of the North and the Nordic countries, in Hawaii for the sacred lands and people there,   in the Redwoods of California, those “grand elders” of the planet, and   in the crystalline lands of Arkansas on 10-10-10, to connect in with the awakening of Atlantean crystals buried there, and to heal the sacred waters. These crystals have been prayed over, watched over, and kept safe for this time. There are many more crystals to be placed back into the earth. Soon one of the crystals in my care will return to the Waitaha people in New Zealand, and they will place their crystal back into their sacred lands. These crystals are not placed just anywhere, but are placed in sacred areas where two ley lines cross. They must be placed at very specific locations, to strengthen the energy grid of Mother Earth, those places where the energy goes back into Mother Earth, and links up with the energy of the other crystals in place. So the energy of the crystal placed in Hawaii connects to the Redwoods, to New Mexico, to Sweden, and so forth. This grid of energy is Mother Earth’s arteries and veins, if you will. These crystals must be in place before the great shifting of the Earth happens. I have four more crystals to be placed… though I do not know yet for where they are destined. When the time is right, I will be told where each must return.

The Shift from Mind to Heart Consciousness

There are two great ancient civilizations that today hold the key to living from the heart—the Mayans and the Aboriginal people. They still live from the heart and they are the ones who are teaching us now to start living from the heart again. Since the fall of Atlantis, human civilization has developed in a particular way. We have developed the capacity of our rational minds to the extent that we have made great cities and inventions, and in very recent years have made a huge leap in our discovery of new technologies. We have done some amazing things. But the problem is that we have left the heart behind. We stopped acting from and making decisions from the heart, and from a feeling of connectedness to all of life and to Mother Earth. We have overvalued the rational logical mind, and believe in only what we can see and experience with our bodily senses. This was never how it was intended to be. We are being asked now to start living from the heart again—and this is one of the messages I have been asked specifically to help share and teach.

It is a universal law that I have been taught—that the more loving you are, the more intelligent you become. If you can imagine everything we have created from our minds in the last ten years even—all the advancements and technologies. Yet we still cannot solve some of the most urgent problems facing us today. The largest problem is how to heal what we have done to the Earth already, and how to stop doing what we have been doing to her ever since human beings forgot their connection in the web of life. If we have been able to create so much using just our minds, imagine what we might create if we were operating from the heart! Mind would not be inactive or unused—it would grow much more powerful, because it would be in right relationship to heart—to the source of being, and to creation. If we stop operating from an ego-driven, mental consciousness, we stop striving for meaningless things that gratify only the smallest part of who we are. We stop wasting our mental energy and can start directing every ounce of our hearts and minds to healing the earth and creating bounty for all beings. We could create a paradise on earth, unlike anything we have seen before.

 I have been taught by Spirit that Mother Earth is sacred and that human beings will not be allowed to kill her. She is sacred to all life forms in the universe, not just to human beings. If human beings will not be allowed to kill her—then we need to raise our vibration high enough so that we can shift with her into a higher being, because we have been causing her great harm for so long that something major must happen to correct the path we are on, to help her to breathe again. For human beings, the situation is urgent. We must shift into a higher consciousness if we are to remain on planet Earth as her children.

If you listen, none of the indigenous elders or wisdom keepers on our planet are saying, “Now you must go and do something.”  They are saying, “Be.” They are telling us to be the change, to focus on “being” rather than on doing, for once.  If enough of us can connect with our hearts and the Love that is there, the Love that is all around us in nature, and understand the beauty and sacredness of this life we are given—we will flip the ruling consciousness of the planet from mind, to heart. We are sparks of the Divine consciousness. Each of us has a “Great I AM,” which sent a spark of us here to experience and learn from being in a human body and from having this amazing human heart. I am here to help you to remember.

By living from love, and being in the heart, we remember that most sacred truth that we are all brothers and sisters and children of one mother—Mother Earth. We are not separate from each other, or from any other life form. What happens to one of us, happens to all of us.  Because human energy is identical to Earth energy, what happens to Mother Earth also happens to us, and vice versa. Yet we are capable of changing this world we live in. There is a prophecy in many indigenous cultures that at the time of the great change on earth, in this time we are living in, humanity would unify as one family, one tribe… and that this tribe would be made of “many colors.” 

When I was initiated as shaman and told that I was a “wisdom keeper,” I was told that my tribe was to be the “tribe of many colors.” I know now that my Great I AM sent a spark of me here at this time to help the children of planet Earth to remember who they are, to love our Mother Earth, and that “we are the ones that we have been waiting for.” We are the Tribe of Many Colors, the strongest of strong souls who chose to be on Earth at this time, to fulfill the tremendous task of shifting the consciousness on the planet back to the heart and to Love. We must unite under the banner of Love and show our most sacred Mother how much we love Her, how we are willing to do anything to save Her, and to continue on as Her children here on Earth. We are capable of creating a beauty we have barely glimpsed on earth. And we will.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Superdog on January 14, 2011, 09:36:30 pm
This is a bit of heartbreaking information, but if anyone has ever doubted why it's important to take the time to call out those that co-opt tribes cultures, traditions and names and use them as a means to commit fraud, let these words be a reminder.

This is from a youtube poster named crystalbuffalolove.  Ironically her only friend on youtube is the inherently racist and wrong profile user WHITEBUFFALOSWMN2012 who leaves many nasty comments about Natives being alcoholics, lazy etc etc on shadowfax's channel and claims Crowther is White Buffalo Calf Woman reincarnated.

Well up until recently crystalbuffalolove was an ardent supporter of Crowther and fell hook, line and sinker for the whole "message" as can be attested to by her "About Me" section on her profile..

http://www.youtube.com/user/crystalbuffalolove
"About Me:
 Little grandmother student, painting, jewlery making"

and her comment on WHITEBUFFALOSWMN2012's channel

http://www.youtube.com/user/WHITEBUFFALOSWMN2012
"It's good to see you on? here Kay <3 <3 Little Grandmother is living in our hearts and the white buffalo runs wild with love. "

Well, she's decided to check out Crowther for herself even going so far as to call Kiesha's mother, Terri Kreps and left these comments on the Lilou Mace video "JUICY HOMES: Little Grandmother opens her home in Santa Fe New Mexico"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CWsBP1rOlzY&feature=player_embedded#!

"I was Kiesha's biggest supporter. I loved her message so much. I donated money to her so she could travel and pay her rent. When these rumors about her started up I ignored it and kept supporting kiesha. Even if her lies were little white ones. I cant look the other way no more, not after this latest whopper about her mother not being indian. I'm done. Kiesha I want my money back for the Santa Fe? gathering. I will contact soon for a refund. my heart hurts over these lies. I called the reserv too"
crystalbuffalolove 8 hours ago 4

"2 nd part ---- talked to someone up on the flatheads reservation and they said they are getting calls about this and they say a Terri Kreps has never been known to them. I am upset this morning to know I donate up to 5 thousant to kiesha and her mission. i have many people to apologize to including my own mother for? borrowing money off her and my dad to give to Kiesha's mission. please please i beg you do not send tis woman anymore money till you check it out for yourself. "
crystalbuffalolove 8 hours ago 3


There's a third part to this message that was unfortunately deleted

"why was my part 3 removed? because I mentioned my? phone call to Terri??!!!"
crystalbuffalolove 8 hours ago


Let me just say, if she's reading this.  You are not the first to be hurt by her....there are others here on the board who've gone through similar circumstances.  I personally hope you are able to recover your funds...so many of these types of people operate on such a low level...one equal James Ray and his death lodge, where even in the wake of victims who lost their lives believing him to the end only refunded HALF of the money back to their families.  For her to accept such a large sum without question is only another indicator of her fraudulent activities and I hope, as someone who has been hurt, not just emotionally, but financially by the lie you were made to believe you do seek justice and I'll pray every day that you get it.  It's just not fair.

Kiesha Rae Crowther...you have much explaining to do.


Superdog

P.S. For the members here I'd encourage you to visit the video and "like" crystalbufallolove's comments so they remain on top of the comment section as a reminder to others of the pain that is caused by fraudulent operators such as Crowther.

Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: nemesis on January 14, 2011, 10:26:57 pm

P.S. For the members here I'd encourage you to visit the video and "like" crystalbufallolove's comments so they remain on top of the comment section as a reminder to others of the pain that is caused by fraudulent operators such as Crowther.


done

that is so very sad, heartbreaking is exactly the word for it

poor woman, that's a very tough lesson
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: educatedindian on January 14, 2011, 11:49:20 pm

Well, she's decided to check out Crowther for herself even going so far as to call Kiesha's mother, Terri Kreps and left these comments on the Lilou Mace video "JUICY HOMES: Little Grandmother opens her home in Santa Fe New Mexico"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CWsBP1rOlzY&feature=player_embedded#!

"I was Kiesha's biggest supporter. I loved her message so much. I donated money to her so she could travel and pay her rent. When these rumors about her started up I ignored it and kept supporting kiesha. Even if her lies were little white ones. I cant look the other way no more, not after this latest whopper about her mother not being indian. I'm done. Kiesha I want my money back for the Santa Fe? gathering. I will contact soon for a refund. my heart hurts over these lies. I called the reserv too"
crystalbuffalolove 8 hours ago 4

"2 nd part ---- talked to someone up on the flatheads reservation and they said they are getting calls about this and they say a Terri Kreps has never been known to them. I am upset this morning to know I donate up to 5 thousant to kiesha and her mission. i have many people to apologize to including my own mother for? borrowing money off her and my dad to give to Kiesha's mission. please please i beg you do not send tis woman anymore money till you check it out for yourself. "
crystalbuffalolove 8 hours ago 3

Let me just say, if she's reading this.  You are not the first to be hurt by her....there are others here on the board who've gone through similar circumstances.  I personally hope you are able to recover your funds...For her to accept such a large sum without question is only another indicator of her fraudulent activities and I hope, as someone who has been hurt, not just emotionally, but financially by the lie you were made to believe you do seek justice and I'll pray every day that you get it.  It's just not fair.

Kiesha Rae Crowther...you have much explaining to do.

Superdog


Let me take that a further step. I hope she sues Crowther and gets every penny of her money back, plus damages for all the hardship and pain caused, plus the court awards punitive damages.

I hope she and every other person who got taken by Crowther SUES. You will win.
I also hope you consider going to a district attorney and try to get Crowther charged with criminal fraud, because IMO that is what she's guilty of. She knows she's lied repeatedly, and did so to get people's money, love, and loyalty (not necessarily in that order.) Crowther also knows she's lied repeatedly because even her own family has told her so repeatedly.

She belongs in jail, as does every one of her inner circle who knowingly took part in her con game. And every last penny should be refunded.

Don't hesitate, take her to court.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: AlaskaGrl on January 15, 2011, 05:37:32 am
Well, she's decided to check out Crowther for herself even going so far as to call Kiesha's mother, Terri Kreps and left these comments on the Lilou Mace video "JUICY HOMES: Little Grandmother opens her home in Santa Fe New Mexico"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CWsBP1rOlzY&feature=player_embedded#!

After sitting through the above video, yet another issue emerges, she has Owl Feathers and a Talon.  Just saying....  
On her wall was another piece that has what looks like more bird talons on it...  
See  http://tinyurl.com/4hodfov

"in the US, it is not legal to have the owl feathers. All native migratory birds in the US are protected by federal law (Migratory Bird Treaty Act) and it is illegal to have any protected bird (dead or alive), their nests, their eggs and even their feathers, no matter how you happened to get them.

"""What to do if you find a dead owl: Unless you possess a special permit from the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service, you cannot legally possess an owl. If you find a dead owl, you should report it to a local DNR office or your local conservation officer. However, citizens and volunteers have delivered dead owls to DNR offices around the state without penalty."""


Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: AlaskaGrl on January 15, 2011, 06:23:16 am

There is now a Forum up at the Tribe of Many Colors   http://tribeofmanycolors.us/tribeforum/index.php
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: czech on January 15, 2011, 09:25:28 am
I am upset this morning to know I donate up to 5 thousant to kiesha and her mission. i have many people to apologize to including my own mother for? borrowing money off her and my dad to give to Kiesha's mission. please please i beg you do not send tis woman anymore money till you check it out for yourself. "
crystalbuffalolove 8 hours ago 3

How terrible and sad. But brave, too. This woman had the courage to take action and find out the truth for herself. It would have been so much easier and more comfortable to continue believing and "looking the other way" from what didn't fit. Her only comfort may be that her message can help others now who are still in that situation, to start questioning "Kiesha and her mission".
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: czech on January 15, 2011, 10:54:10 am
I couldn't bear to watch more than the first 6-7 minutes of the video but it struck me that she now claims that one year ago she predicted how terrible the Gulf of Mexico disaster would turn out to be and that her prophecy is now being confirmed... while actually what people have recorded in this forum and what Spandex kept reminding until the end of the year, her actual "prophecy" for 2010 was:

"...Filthy waters will be cleaned..."

And as far as I know, it was Arvol Looking Horse who actually spoke about the Gulf of Mexico disaster:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/arvol-looking-horse/oil-spill-a-great-urgency_b_576907.html
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Saga on January 15, 2011, 11:14:15 am
She has taken lots of words from Arvol from what I see. Read Arvol's letters/speeches from manataka and some other pages and some of what he has said is in Kiesha's videos almost word to word, but ofc in bit different context.

It is terrible to read that someone has lost that much money because of this woman... :(
My sympathy totally goes to crystalbuffalo, incredibly brave to come forward with it and to start looking for truth when people are expecting you to just follow... People, just move on from Kiesha, take the love and use it where it really has change to exist, away from someone who doesn't have any idea what it means. Love doesn't mean that you use it and abuse it for your own gain, well, except for a narcist.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Diana on January 15, 2011, 11:17:18 am
Well, she's decided to check out Crowther for herself even going so far as to call Kiesha's mother, Terri Kreps and left these comments on the Lilou Mace video "JUICY HOMES: Little Grandmother opens her home in Santa Fe New Mexico"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CWsBP1rOlzY&feature=player_embedded#!

After sitting through the above video, yet another issue emerges, she has Owl Feathers and a Talon.  Just saying....  
On her wall was another piece that has what looks like more bird talons on it...  
See  http://tinyurl.com/4hodfov

"in the US, it is not legal to have the owl feathers. All native migratory birds in the US are protected by federal law (Migratory Bird Treaty Act) and it is illegal to have any protected bird (dead or alive), their nests, their eggs and even their feathers, no matter how you happened to get them.

"""What to do if you find a dead owl: Unless you possess a special permit from the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service, you cannot legally possess an owl. If you find a dead owl, you should report it to a local DNR office or your local conservation officer. However, citizens and volunteers have delivered dead owls to DNR offices around the state without penalty."""





Actually, the owl is a very bad omen for most Salish Tribes. This dumb fraud can't even do a little home work on the very Tribe she's claiming to be from. Most Salish Indians won't go near or pick up any owl feathers.


Lim lemtsh,

Diana
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: czech on January 15, 2011, 11:40:42 am

Actually, the owl is a very bad omen for most Salish Tribes. This dumb fraud can't even do a little home work on the very Tribe she's claiming to be from. Most Salish Indians won't go near or pick up any owl feathers.


No, she will brag about how the bad omen accompanied her in multiple numbers on her way while moving to her "juicy home" in New Mexico...
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Freija on January 15, 2011, 01:22:29 pm
Another comment from crystalbuffalolove:

"....when kiesha asked on her face book if anyone could donate to her because she fell on hard times i gave money. her assistant wanted me to set up monthly debit payments to my credit card that would send money to kiesha's bank account. i thought? i was helping a true good hearted woman"....." my husband died and i looked to kiesha for spiritual help and all i got was taken. this woman had us fooled"

DISGUSTING! I am lost for words. >:( >:(

I feel so sorry for this brave woman and there will be many more opening their eyes now.
What happens with all those basically goodhearted people who will blame themselves, some of them maybe with mental problems. They could easily be pushed over the edge. Not that Kiesha cares as she has already stated "I don´t care".
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Spandex~Atom on January 15, 2011, 03:12:26 pm


What’s a sociopath?

(article from LoveFraud.com)

If you only know one thing about psychology, you should know about sociopaths. Being aware of sociopaths could help you avoid emotional trauma, ruined finances, even an untimely death.

Sociopathy, also called psychopathy, is a personality disorder characterized by deceit on a scale most of us cannot imagine. These men and women are not crazy; they know exactly what they are doing. Here is how Robert D. Hare, Ph.D., begins his book about psychopaths, Without Conscience:

"Psychopaths are social predators who charm, manipulate and ruthlessly plow their way through life, leaving a broad trail of broken hearts, shattered expectations and empty wallets. Completely lacking in conscience and feelings for others, they selfishly take what they want and do as they please, violating social norms and expectations without the slightest sense of guilt or regret."*

Why is it so critical for you to know about sociopaths? Because millions of sociopaths are living among us. Yes, many of them are criminals, locked up in jail. But far more are on the street, hurting people without breaking laws, operating in the gray areas between legal and illegal, or simply eluding the authorities. They can appear to be normal, but they pose a tremendous threat to us all.

Sociopaths exhibit a range of behaviors. In fact, Dr. Hare diagnoses them according to their score on a scale. So just as you could describe someone's intelligence as ranging from smart to genius, you could describe a sociopath as somewhere between sleazy and serial killer. If you see sleazy, he or she may be on the low end of the scale, but they're still bad news.

This web site is dedicated to informing you about sociopaths so you can protect yourself. Learn to spot the behaviors that might indicate someone is a sociopath. Once they are adults, sociopathic men and women do not change. They cannot be rehabilitated. The sooner you can get away from them, the better off you'll be.

http://www.lovefraud.com/01_whatsaSociopath/what_is_sociopath.html

Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: AlaskaGrl on January 15, 2011, 03:54:27 pm
Don'y forget to Tweet and vote up the comments....  noticed this one today so far..

"""@crystalbuffalolove
I apologize for my hateful comment to you that i made a month ago. I'm very glad you've been able to burst through the bubble but very sorry to hear that you've lost so much because of Kiesha. I've donated 50 euro's to Kiesha but i still want it? back. Some people on the New Age Fraud forums have suggested to sue her and get all the money back... i'm actually thinking about doing so.""""""
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: critter - a white non-ndn person on January 15, 2011, 05:01:19 pm
She has taken lots of words from Arvol from what I see. Read Arvol's letters/speeches from manataka and some other pages and some of what he has said is in Kiesha's videos almost word to word, but ofc in bit different context.

I could be wrong, but I feel fairly certain that KC is not reading anything, but
her handlers are, and writing her scripts..
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Saga on January 15, 2011, 05:26:56 pm
I have no idea who does the reading or writing either, but it doesn't change the fact that more I have done my own research about the stuff that she has spoken about in her videos, more I find almost word to word quotes from places, taken totally out of context and mixed with some new stuff.

Even seen my own words used couple of times. :p Not sure where she/her groupies would have picked them up tho, so probably just imagining things. It kind of feel weird tho, talking someone about some dream or something and seeing the same thing in her wall half an hour later as "sure proof" about something, that she picked up. :p Guess she and the supporter group are going through stuff people write as well and pick some theories that would probably "sell" to big audience and then the all powerful leader announces that she knows what is going on... who knows. :) Of course like that you get the feeling that she is right, when she talks about something people has just spent little time guessing in their own little groups. Or read from somewhere else.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: KrazyKraut on January 15, 2011, 07:14:20 pm
It seems she dropped her website: http://www.tribeofmanycolors.net/
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Saga on January 15, 2011, 07:26:19 pm
That has been known for a while, all the "action" and info will move under www.littlegrandmother.net and the tribe site is down from mid-january... seems that today isn't one of those days, when I can form sentences that make sense. :) so edited a bit.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: critter - a white non-ndn person on January 15, 2011, 09:01:46 pm
I have no idea who does the reading or writing either, but it doesn't change the fact that more I have done my own research about the stuff that she has spoken about in her videos, more I find almost word to word quotes from places, taken totally out of context and mixed with some new stuff.

Well, the reason I think her handlers are researching and writing scripts for her is because
she doesn't come across to me as being sober (or maybe even intelligent) enough to do
all that work on her own. Whereas her handlers probably have tons of stuff they have read
and gone through and know how to incorporate to their own needs.. I just don't see KC
having that kind of diligence.. but more the puppet.. raking in the ego boost and a cut
of the money.

Even seen my own words used couple of times. :p Not sure where she/her groupies would have picked them up tho, so probably just imagining things. It kind of feel weird tho, talking someone about some dream or something and seeing the same thing in her wall half an hour later as "sure proof" about something, that she picked up. :p Guess she and the supporter group are going through stuff people write as well and pick some theories that would probably "sell" to big audience and then the all powerful leader announces that she knows what is going on... who knows. :) Of course like that you get the feeling that she is right, when she talks about something people has just spent little time guessing in their own little groups. Or read from somewhere else.

That's a trick. A tactic. If you want people to fall for you hook line and sinker you incorporate
their own thoughts into the scheme of things. It makes them feel that they were on the
"right track" and they pay more attention to the person they view as an "authority" of it.. the
more you can get a person to agree with you (by using their own ideas/thoughts) the more
they will follow you..
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Saga on January 15, 2011, 09:38:30 pm
In my case, my ego striked back.  ;D "How dares she use MY thoughts", LOL
But yes, her writing team is pretty effective in probably searching all the conspiracy and spiritual forums and little pseudoscience and put up a nice little bundle where everyone finds something, except those who are looking for the "earthy" wisdom... I like what I have read from the real chiefs and elders, when I have found something authentic... in Kiesha's "message" all that gets twisted. For me at least. It kind of loose all the sense and spirituality, the sacred is gone and the honoring. Hard to describe.

It was fine at start for me, Kiesha's thing, but it really lacks something and started to have this nice wrapper on empty box -thing eventually. I've never felt more lonely than when I based my life around her, computer and this "tribe"... Even tho I lost couple of friends when I decided that I can't be quiet about how wrong the whole thing now seems to me, I still have more "social life" now, REAL life, not just waiting online for conversations, if someone has time for it, and ofc, if you don't ask too many questions or say the wrong things. I was able to activate some of my real life friendships again after I left. I got really antisocial while in the "tribe". It was easier to stay away from "real" interaction with people than deal with their life, pain and problems. You know, change the channel and stay online with those that think alike (altho I think I never quite fitted)... what I really want to learn now is to get connected with tighter bonds to people I care about and get more into the little acts of love instead of hiding and thinking them. :)

EDIT: New tribe forum seems to be up in littlegrandmother.net site and there is new interview posted from spain. Don't want to listen it myself now, just to inform...
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: luciddreamer on January 16, 2011, 01:38:57 am
I cannot believe that somebody on the youtube channel is asking crystalbuffalolove for proof!

Quote "@crystalbuffalolove Do you have any proof of? the transactions you made? Receipts, statements etc?"

For anyone else reading this who is thinking of asking crystalbuffalolove for proof...I suggest you get off your lazy backsides and do your own research, to make such a request from a person who has had to summon the courage to make public how she has been scammed is ridiculous and lacking in compassion....where is your love and light now.
Kiesha is a fraud get over it, she won't be the first and she certainly won't be the last
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Spandex~Atom on January 16, 2011, 03:02:07 am
and where is Kiesha's 'proof' ?

She is all talk. Alot of hot air.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: debbieredbear on January 17, 2011, 12:12:31 am
Some hopw I missed this one thing that had me scratching my head. Keisha was telling somone that she had taken all the "oaths and vows" to be a shaman. Er, Oaths and vows? ???  Perhaps she was initiated into something and just THOUGHT she was being initiated as a  shaman. Um, can't recall hearing any person ever saying they took oaths and vows for that.  ;)
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: czech on January 17, 2011, 07:48:32 am
Crystalbuffalolove left some interesting comments on youtube in response to the person who asked for a proof of her payment:

"yes I do have my credit card statement. you'll see it when i see kieshas proof that she's an indian, that her mother is indian, and that don alejandro acknowledges her, when she gives proof of her statements that she's really related to ninepipes salish elder, the lakota great great great grandfather she said went to hawaii, when she proves? that she is white buffalo as her followers say, when these so called elders come forward on her behalf what else is there? did I miss anything?"

"i don't feel i owe anything to you or anyone. i know good and well how kiesha's followers operate cause i? used to be one of them. don't make me start posting up all the little network of messages from the tribe. i'll expose all the ppl who were down right cruel and the things they said. peace and love my ass. you people are viscious and cold. and yes I am angry you coming after me after i bare my pain here. all i have to say is it shows your 'true colors' tribe of many colors"
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: AlaskaGrl on January 17, 2011, 03:36:01 pm

Great quote::

"""People need to wake up and learn that the new age movement is being used as camouflage for countless crooks and con men."""



Linda...
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Twinkie_Slayer on January 18, 2011, 12:10:03 am
Some hopw I missed this one thing that had me scratching my head. Keisha was telling somone that she had taken all the "oaths and vows" to be a shaman. Er, Oaths and vows? ???  Perhaps she was initiated into something and just THOUGHT she was being initiated as a  shaman. Um, can't recall hearing any person ever saying they took oaths and vows for that.  ;)

   I heard that in reality she stumbled into an Eastern Star meeting, and due to disorientation from too many bong hits, thought she was on the rez.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: luciddreamer on January 18, 2011, 03:36:16 am
Came across this note from one of her followers, unfortunately it only shows Kiesha's responses:

"**I've removed name** to Keisha Crowther:

 

just delivering a few messages on behalf of some people who have followed an orchestrated campaign against you who have just discovered who began that campaign, some of he people were leaders posting up links, they have apologised and apparently meant no harm, they were outraged to find out that the salish have never made any statement or video about you after i recommended they call the salish and pointed out a few members of the banking families to them whom im extremely familiar with who they have been in cahoots with unknowingly..ive recommended that the apologies come to you directly but im sure that you have already forgiven them~classy lady..rock on;-)"

 

Keisha:

"My respect and love *****, I thank you for the things you have done for me in my behalf.. as I have tried very hard not to engage the hate and the lies being spread, I thank you for making a stand in my behalf and getting the truth out there for all to know. I was asked not to respond to the negative and I have tried very hard to ride this wave until the truth would come out and prove my innocence. I also have received an email from the official tribal leaders stating they have nothing to do with the attacks or those behind it. I now have in my possession a official letter from the council declaring this. Again, my respect goes to you sister of light and my thanks for your strength and courage to help me and protect the truth so that the light can go forward and so that we all can rise above. I do give you my deepest thanks and my respect. For I KNOW who you are... and I am humbled that you have come to help me. Kiesha, Little Grandmother"

I also have received an email from the official tribal leaders stating they have nothing to do with the attacks or those behind it. I now have in my possession a official letter from the council declaring this. show us your wares then Kiesha, don't be shy

 

Keisha:

"Every lie told about me in the malicious and hateful emails spread around can be proven without a doubt about their lies. The misunderstanding about what Falling feathers had told me has been resolved over a moth ago.. and the people who needed to be contacted have and were contacted, the matter was settled with respect and love between us all. There was no hate, not anger but love. I have also been in communication with the tribal people ever since. The hate , lies and allegations do not come from the leaders they come from a group of people intent on spreading hate and they have caught the ear of many.. I have forgiven all who have taken part in this and am concentrating on moving forward in the message I have always spoken.. love and unity.. no matter who tries to take me out for doing so.... Those who have followed and helped the hate and malicious attacks... do some research before jumping on the hate campaign!"

do some research before jumping on the hate campaign!" - we have and found you are lying..FACT

"I have been in contact with the people necessary and our hearts are not in anger. Never have been."

"I have been very careful not to call myself a medicine woman but a shaman, a worldly term and a word that comes from northern Russia.. To use the medicine I(pipe and shirt) with my own medicine on it. everything people have thrown a fit about they have fabricated and made into an argument.. I have had nothing to do with this.. Never have I been contacted by a tribe of any kind under negative circumstances. Never. If you are one who is believing the nonsense. look at who is writing the letters, they are either not signed, no usable return email address or a fraud themselves. they do NOT represent any tribe and their (so called official statements) do not come from the tribal leaders.. I have spoken to them and I have a written document stating the matter from them! I am asking let enough be enough.. I have rode this wave long enough.. I will not be addressing this again or any further.. to those who love the message of love and light.. lets move forward.. to those who follow and believe in hate, malice and anger.. This face book page is not a democracy.. this is my personal face book page.. if you are here in hate.. I ask you to leave. This is a place of love and I will not have it tainted any more with allegations and lies.. Lies only separate people.. and I ask for the tribe of many colors to be a place of love... as always... let this be done with. LG"

If you are one who is believing the nonsense. look at who is writing the letters, they are either not signed, no usable return email address or a fraud themselves. - we have already established this is lies...I myself have addressed Kiesha personally using my own name.

 

Keisha:

"To the tribe members who have wished me to speak more and defend myself on the lies and attacks.. I thank you for being patient with me.. I was asked not to engage while the names and comments of the attackers were being filed."

"I think we can now relax as.. I have very high people in very high places who are protecting the *light workers with a real purpose* and we have now documentation proving these statements did NOT come from the leaders of the tribes and their statments are proven lies."

"I want to be able to share this with you.. to know that there is great help for those speaking the truth, and for those of you who have supported me and saw me threw this in love and kindness you have past a test in a way.. the wheat was being separated from the shaft.. In the time when those truly in love will be witnessed and counted and weighed against those whose hearts are truly living from the ego and hate will be SEEN.. this is happening now.. be true to who you really are.. ask yourself .. who are you really.. do I really stand for light.. or do I just talk the talk... as soon as something goes wrong do I fight for the dark? I do not make light of this.. WE ALL .. each and every one of us are being weighed and measured.. to see where are alliance really lies... I thank you for standing beside me in love during this trial period.. you can be proud of who you are and that you stood in love in the face of chaos.. Remember, no matter how bleak something looks there are always those very real soldiers of light who are here on this planet protecting us and helping us in very real ways.. If you truly are of the light you will be protected!! they are real, they are doing great works all over the world and they will help when we are being attacked.."

 

 

Keisha:

  "...i was being asked to be quiet on the subject and not write about it while eveidence was being gathered.."

Here she goes again with the law suit shizzle

 

 

Keisha:

"and luckily i have a very great team, to follow trails.. find names .. even those who do not put their names on the emails of attaks and aligations to those i work for, who have contacted my family, and those whohave put up videos with false authority.. have all been traced and names and addresses gathered.. All is being taken care of in a very big way.. peace is soon to follow!</span> </span></span>"



 

 

Keisha:

"...now we can go back to love and peace!! but i wanted to now make it clear that all is being taken care of.. we have official statments from tribes and leaders and a great team who is very very skilled and this will be handled swiftly and harshly.. to make a stand against eveil, hate and those seeking to feed such things.. it is time for truth and light to make a passionate stand on planet earth! and to all those who stayed in the light threw this.. i say to you.. i love you, i love your souls .. they are truly good and you have proved yourselves well !!"

we have official statments from tribes and leaders and a great team who is very very skilled and this will be handled swiftly and harshly. - we're waiting

 

Keisha:

"and to ***** thank you for the work you have done.. and for being who you are!! i will not make it public but thanks should be given to those who have made a stand for light and truth.. all my respect and deep love old sister!"

Yes thank you **** for following me despite my many flaws, inconsistencies and lies, now give me your money

"i will not make it public" huh   ??? this woman makes no sense!

 

******:

"Breathes a long sigh of relief and joy! ***** what can I say? Thank you!"
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Saga on January 18, 2011, 05:28:22 am
Omg... If anyone sees LOVE and truth in that, they must be out of their minds. All I see is threats towards people who have questioned her and the "evidence" being gathered:
"and luckily i have a very great team, to follow trails.. find names .. even those who do not put their names on the emails of attaks and aligations to those i work for, who have contacted my family, and those whohave put up videos with false authority.. have all been traced and names and addresses gathered.. All is being taken care of in a very big way.. peace is soon to follow!"
"this will be handled swiftly and harshly"
Claims, claims and more claims about how she is the one standing in truth, without any evidence from that and lots and lots of ego stroking for those who believe in everything she says...

Only the ones who believe in her and are, because of that, real lightworkers, will be "protected", is that a subbtle way to say that all the others are goners? And what comes to malicious and hateful emails, I for one have never been malicious or hateful in my emails, I asked her why she claims to be something she is not when the supposed to be good message suffers from that (was before I noticed that the message isn't so good, for me at least).
And then there comes the claims about being in contact with the tribes again... Come on, Kiesha. If you have contact and the papers, show them. If not, come clean. There is no truth or love in message that is based on BS. And to be exact, it is the kind of BS that only helps the ego grow, there is nothing nutritious in it left to nurture the earth. Indeed the time of false prophets...

Oh and the blaming and naming of Dr. Al Carroll continues in many places as far as I know, people are hanging on to that to save their illusion. :(
To anyone who reads this: I have been member here for a couple of months, any of my posts, questioning or not, have not been removed. When I read about the "Al Carroll is a fraud" thing from my fb, I wrote pm saying that and got far more friendly response than from any of the Kiesha's big supporters or from herself (since she rather not answers at all). After that I did my own research knowing that people in this forum has LOTS of enemies that have lost their "livelyhood" or some of it because they have been proved to be frauds... I mean come on, this is not Kiesha Crowther's personal hate group that has been build just to debunk her (unless they had a prophecy about false prophet coming to destroy all the elders have been trying to preserve as well :p). Afaik this group has been there for years.

I would really love to let Kiesha spread her message of love, if she had even little bit of truth left in herself and if she wouldn't try to convince people that her word is the only right way and if it really was about love... seems more and more about something else. Can only ask from the spirit that she sees the light too some day. I am so sad for her and the people who don't look for their own truth but believes hers without questioning. And doing that, attack towards innocent people and at the same time casting away even the message they say they are following. :( I have nothing against Kiesha or any of her followers in person, I just think that they are seriously misguided, by what ever reasons. I don't have to condone the actions tho...

“Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere.” Martin Luther King Jr.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: czech on January 18, 2011, 08:04:04 am
"I have very high people in very high places who are protecting the *light workers with a real purpose*"

 "and luckily i have a very great team, to follow trails.. find names .. even those who do not put their names on the emails of attaks and aligations to those i work for, who have contacted my family, and those whohave put up videos with false authority.. have all been traced and names and addresses gathered.. All is being taken care of in a very big way.. peace is soon to follow!"

"this will be handled swiftly and harshly"

Sounds exactly like a message of love, light and peace...
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: goozih on January 18, 2011, 03:10:27 pm
I took the plunge and joined the tribe of many colors forum, I lasted about 4 hours now my IP is banned for "trolling" I cant even get to the forums...LOL All I asked was if  they thought she was telling the truth about a video called "one with nature"...LOL These folks are brainwashed big time...I feel for those poor sheep.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: goozih on January 18, 2011, 03:33:04 pm
Early Missionaries here in Canada Called the Medicine people "Shamans"with their main goal to stamp out and destroy the culture and customs and convert them . They waged a covert war and forced the Medicine people underground. I just thought it worth mentioning as this Shows how out of touch and insensitive using that term to describe herself (Kiesha) is.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Spandex~Atom on January 18, 2011, 05:16:29 pm
Thank you to the person who was brave enough to question the authority in this post:
http://tribeofmanycolors.us/tribeforum/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=397




name of poster   Post subject: Re: clarificationPosted: Mon 17. Jan 2011, 20:16  
 
Joined: Sat 15. Jan 2011, 17:51
Posts: 2  Thanks name and name for your replies

Opening energetically to someone comes with trust, with honesty, with transparency, and with love. This is required from both sides. The message of love has been on this planet for quite sometime.

I have a variety of personal experiences regarding religion and sprituality, my understandings of this place in space and time, and connections with a host of other great and wonderous phenomenon. Before coming into contact with LG I told my husband how I have this huge love for humanity as a whole and knew love is the way of our society.

As I listened to her first video, what drew me most was the amazing story of how she 'became' her tribes shaman. How her tribe recognized her and how she was the fulfillment of this other prophecy. So for me, my heart connected to the indigenous portion of her story. Of how this was the time when they chose someone to speak for them and others.

Does it matter then if her mother never lived on the reservation? Yes. I believe it does. Because while we are all divine, until we realize that, there are certain working concepts in play. One can open the heart recieve information and acklowledge it as true. If then, new data comes through describing how there were false filters that the original information was past through, then the information becomes tarnished and any further information, while needed may very well be disregarded.

I worry. For if it comes to pass many many can be hurt. The heart, while indestructable in its pure light, is still vunerable to great sorrow in its human form. All I can ask is that LG steps forward to clear this up herself rather than having other people do it for her.



 The replies as yet provide no answers other than to simply close ones eyes to any criticism. ALL criticism is seen as negative.

This is a completely different attitude to that of the Dali Lama for instance:


"Each student must be encouraged to take responsible measures
to confront teachers with unethical aspects of their conduct.
If the teacher shows no sign of reform, students should not hesitate
to publicize any unethical behavior of which there is irrefutable evidence.
This should be done irrespective of other beneficial aspects of his or her work
and of one's spiritual commitment to that teacher"
His Holiness the Dalai Lama (Letter to the Sangha on Western Buddhism)


The moderators at TOMC can delete this persons posts if they like. but there will always be a record of it.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Defend the Sacred on January 18, 2011, 09:32:52 pm
This was posted today by the filmmaker who is making a film with Don Alejandro:

http://www.facebook.com/shiftoftheages?v=wall
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Shift of the Ages

SOTA does not know and has no affiliation with Keisha Crowther aka "Little Grandmother." Don Alejandro "Wandering Wolf" does not know or "recognize" her as a "Shaman," "Wisdom Keeper," or "Elder" of the Continental Council of Indigenous Elders of the Americas as she claims. Neither Don Alejandro nor the SOTA project authorized use of "Wandering Wolf's" messages or the SOTA video material used in support of the personal opinions she shares in her videos and viral messages. Much of information she is sharing is misleading and "taken" out of context.

SOTA is not here to push anyone else down. The truth will eventually reach the surface. Our prayers are that Mrs. Crowther learns a valuable lesson and she, as well as her team and followers, benefit as result.

11 hours ago
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Note - Neither NAFPS as a group, nor I as an individual, have any connection to SOTA. I am just passing along what is posted on their public Facebook page.

[ETA - Adding a screen shot of the statement. Screen shot from 18 January, 2011]
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: luciddreamer on January 18, 2011, 11:59:19 pm

This was posted today by the filmmaker who is making a film with Don Alejandro:

http://www.facebook.com/shiftoftheages?v=wall
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Shift of the Ages

SOTA does not know and has no affiliation with Keisha Crowther aka "Little Grandmother." Don Alejandro "Wandering Wolf" does not know or "recognize" her as a "Shaman," "Wisdom Keeper," or "Elder" of the Continental Council of Indigenous Elders of the Americas as she claims. Neither Don Alejandro nor the SOTA project authorized use of "Wandering Wolf's" messages or the SOTA video material used in support of the personal opinions she shares in her videos and viral messages. Much of information she is sharing is misleading and "taken" out of context.

SOTA is not here to push anyone else down. The truth will eventually reach the surface. Our prayers are that Mrs. Crowther learns a valuable lesson and she, as well as her team and followers, benefit as result.

11 hours ago
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Note - Neither NAFPS as a group, nor I as an individual, have any connection to SOTA. I am just passing along what is posted on their public Facebook page.

somebody's got some explaining to do... ::) good luck Kiesha
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: goozih on January 19, 2011, 09:27:12 am
Last night I was banned for trolling on Little Grandmother.net /tomc forum/The Heart of the Tribe/one with nature, I said that the video was not accurate and bingo banned... anyway not only banned but IP is banned.
Tonight from another computer they have a message that"This video is currently being edited to remove reference to a particular tribe to avoid any misunderstandings. Little Grandmother would like to make it clear that she speaks for herself and is not representing or acting on behalf of any tribe."
I think they have a lot of editing to do in the next little while.
I wish I would have waited to join the TOMC forum until the latest Don Alejandro news broke!
...Missed it by that much ><
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: luciddreamer on January 19, 2011, 11:48:01 am
Some heavy censoring going on. I posted a question to the TOMC fb page asking if there is an official response from Kiesha regarding the recent statement made by the film maker of 'SOFT'....I asked in a friendly manner, saying I was confused as Kiesha had made claims as being associated with Alejandro. It was deleted and I was kicked out of the group within 10 mins! There was NO reason to delete it, no malice or hate of any form in my post it was a simple query and can only suggest that they do not want 'tribe of many colors' members to see that statement. One doesn't need much common sense to see why.

For any followers of Kiesha...I urge you to dare ask for clarification on that page, you will be kicked out straight away
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: educatedindian on January 19, 2011, 02:00:54 pm
Given Crowther's past history, the statement may actually be a surprise to her and her inner circle, though it wouldn't be to anyone reasonable. Likely Crowther once again greatly misinterpreted/distorted/lied about what Perez actually did. It may have just been a simple blessing for the gathering as a whole, and Crowther in her usual pattern of delusion imagines she's being "recognized".

I wouldn't be surprised if we get another elaborate and completely unbelievable statement yet again, saying she "had every reason to believe" Perez endorsed her or nonsense to that effect.

Crowther's open threats I take very seriously. "Harshly" could be interpreted to mean the possibility of violence. Obviously some of the threats are directly aimed at me since I'm the one who wrote the article repeatedly quoting a source close to the family. Some of the threats are fairly silly lies. No one has hidden their name in any email to Crowther's circle.

But these threats don't surprise anyone who is the target of them. So far Crowther's circle has sent at least five threats to sue for libel, etc, vs anyone who openly criticizes her. (I'm one of the few ones to not be threatened with a suit, at least so far.) Crowther's manager and longtime friend Jennifer Ferraro has even called up and threatened to sue the Salish and Kootenai Tribe.

At the same times as the threats, Crowther's circle are also desperately searching for actual elders or any actual NDNs who will endorse her. They keep demanding we give them the names of elders.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: czech on January 19, 2011, 02:07:42 pm
Crowther's manager and longtime friend Jennifer Ferraro has even called up and threatened to sue the Salish and Kootenai Tribe.

At the same times as the threats, Crowther's circle are also desperately searching for actual elders or any actual NDNs who will endorse her. They keep demanding we give them the names of elders.

Unbelievable. How much more insolent can you get?
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Spandex~Atom on January 19, 2011, 04:40:32 pm

Unbelievable. How much more insolent can you get?

Well they could also try to threaten Don Alejandro if they like....
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Diana on January 19, 2011, 05:13:55 pm
Crowther's manager and longtime friend Jennifer Ferraro has even called up and threatened to sue the Salish and Kootenai Tribe.


These people's ignorance is beyond the pale, don't they know you can't sue a soveriegn Nation. Lots of people have tried it including the US government. Crowther's ignorance of Tribal matters just goes to prove she is not Indian by any means.


Lim lemtsh,

Diana   
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: critter - a white non-ndn person on January 19, 2011, 06:20:36 pm
LOL even if they COULD sue what would be the basis??  That they don't recognize her as
their spiritual leader and issued a statement to that effect? How is that even any kind of
legit basis?  You can't force people to recognize you as something you're not by suing them..

She is ridiculous beyond belief!  And this just really made me laugh today..  :)
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: luciddreamer on January 19, 2011, 07:15:32 pm
It does seem that the more you look into this the more it becomes apparent that Kiesha is more than likely being shielded by all the controversy. She probably has no idea until people on her fb ask questions, there's a tonne of people censoring on her behalf, even the Prophets Conference page which lets have it right need her to keep her act together because they are getting a slice of the cake. She has dates booked with them for this year which people have already paid for...I sure would like to attend the Glastonbury workshop this March and ask her some questions!

Who is this Ferraro woman anyway?...sounds like she's the organ grinder and how the hell can they sue the tribes?, none of it makes sense. It's obviously all talk....as usual.
Noticed the latest interviewer (I won't name)  hasn't been censoring her videos of Kiesha, which is a good sign. I think maybe these interviewers and people she's affiliating herself with are realizing that she could potentially be quite damaging to their reputation. Taking away people's freedom to ask questions makes them seem suspect too, so bravo to the latest interviewer for allowing people to discuss these concerns openly...just hope it stays that way
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: critter - a white non-ndn person on January 19, 2011, 07:34:54 pm
They keep demanding we give them the names of elders.

LOL That's crazy!  Some so called leader doesn't know the names of the elders?
That in itself proves her lies.. if she was all she claimed to be.. she'd know who
they are.. how utterly stupid this is. 
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Diana on January 19, 2011, 08:50:20 pm
They keep demanding we give them the names of elders.

LOL That's crazy!  Some so called leader doesn't know the names of the elders?
That in itself proves her lies.. if she was all she claimed to be.. she'd know who
they are.. how utterly stupid this is.  

You're right Critter, this is funny and ridiculous. It also smells of desperation on team Crowther's part. It looks like we have them on the run! Eeeeya!!!



Lim lemtsh,

Diana
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: heartoftruthandlight on January 19, 2011, 09:32:17 pm
I want to start off by saying you're welcome Spandex~Atom

Here is my personal experience over at TOMC before I was ultimately banned and my Last two posts deleted.

TOMC post

Frome me: Hello all, I'm a little new here and a bit confused as to all the new uploads happening regarding LG's background. As we are all here searching for truth i was hoping others would have a bit more information to help me out. I ask the following because I too have Native Blood, while less than most it still runs in my veins. Her mother does live on the Flathead Reservation in Montana right? People are saying it's not accurate and that her mom's not even native. Can someone please shed some light?

Love is of vital importance at this time. We need to stand in truth for it sets us free. Open hearts are powerful tools that we can use in harmony with an evolved mind. 

Travel well

Response 1: 
well ... i feel like ... not to answer the clarification ... but just to say what comes out my heart ....!

personally when i saw the first video of LG this question flow away after few minutes when i listen to here ...!

She is a pure soul ... we are all brothers and sisters and all our's blood is red 

i think for clarifications on black and white ..theres allot on wikileaks ...
but the message of LG and who she is...try to clarify this with your heart !

this is just what i felt to say ... sorry not a real clarification 

One love

Response 2:
.. this is a fair question and I know there are discussions about this. Some people are exhausting their time trying to find inaccuracies in LG's story about her heritage. My thought is this - that is all negative energy. If we push hard enough, we can always find what we are looking for. That is, if we insist on finding distrust, then that is what we find. Simply compare the messages of Kiesha Crowther to that her critics. One message is pure love and good - the other is a persistent inquiry based on fear and distrust. The path is for you to choose. You are here for a reason. Stay in the heart. LOVE

My reply:
Opening energetically to someone comes with trust, with honesty, with transparency, and with love. This is required from both sides. The message of love has been on this planet for quite sometime. 

I have a variety of personal experiences regarding religion and sprituality, my understandings of this place in space and time, and connections with a host of other great and wonderous phenomenon. Before coming into contact with LG I told my husband how I have this huge love for humanity as a whole and knew love is the way of our society. 

As I listened to her first video, what drew me most was the amazing story of how she 'became' her tribes shaman. How her tribe recognized her and how she was the fulfillment of this other prophecy. So for me, my heart connected to the indigenous portion of her story. Of how this was the time when they chose someone to speak for them and others. 

Does it matter then if her mother never lived on the reservation? Yes. I believe it does. Because while we are all divine, until we realize that, there are certain working concepts in play. One can open the heart recieve information and acklowledge it as true. If then, new data comes through describing how there were false filters that the original information was past through, then the information becomes tarnished and any further information, while needed may very well be disregarded.

I worry. For if it comes to pass many many can be hurt. The heart, while indestructable in its pure light, is still vunerable to great sorrow in its human form. All I can ask is that LG steps forward to clear this up herself rather than having other people do it for her.

Response3: moderator 

 Thank you for your post. I see that you are sincere in your concern and quest for the truth. As a fellow life long seeker of the truth, I understand completely. 

I would first like to address your last comment that you would like Kiesha to address these issues personally. On that point I would draw your attention to her official statement on her official site which comes directly from her. 

http://littlegrandmother.net/NEWURGENTMESSAGE.aspx

It clearly states her Mother lives on the Reservation. 

Little Grandmother has said publicly in more than one video that she is part Native American. (The videos are all posted on this site under The Heart of the Tribe ) I particularly recall the story she told of having been picked out of the crowd when she was about 8 years old and how the Elders gave her a special blessing. 

I believe the above answers the two points you were most concerned about. 

I would also comment as follows:

* I totally agree with Xxx xxx and what she said about the negative comments and who makes them 

Simply compare the messages of Kiesha Crowther to that her critics. One message is pure love and good - the other is a persistent inquiry based on fear and distrust. 


* With respect to negative comments....those unfortunately always appear in an attempt to create doubt and division and to detract from what is really happening in the world. They are a distraction. 

* As Xxx pointed out....listening to Little Grandmother took him into his heart and listening to her certainly does that for me and it appears many thousands of people so far around our dear Mother Earth. The message of Love & living from our Hearts is what people are responding to.

* It is truth that since Little Grandmother was recognized as one of the 12 Wisdom Keepers of the Earth at this time of major transition, that she has been receiving sacred gifts from Elders of indigenous tribes the world over who had known that "Little Grandmother" would come at this time. It is also truth that she is in contact with the other 11 Wisdom Keepers very regularly. 

I hear your point about connecting to the Native American part of Little Grandmother's personal history and how this resonates with your own. I hope the above clarifies that for you. I also read how you shared with your husband that you knew that love is the way for our society...it appears that this common belief with Little Grandmother is perhaps what drew you to her and to The Tribe of Many Colors. 

For the rest...it is what you feel in your heart. 

Be well, Many Blessings. 

Response 4:
We are all brothers and sisters of this planet. It doesnt matter what color our skin is or what tribe or reservations we come from, or what background we are or who our parents are. It doesn't matter any more. We are all walking on mother earth and I wish we could drop our divisions and come together as human beings. I am praying for peace and for divisions between people to end. 

This whole thing going on with those who are protesting Little Grandmother only strengthens my resolve in creating peace, in dissolving that which puts up walls between us as humans. Why does it matter who is indian or not? Who is white or who is dark skinned? We all look the same inside. This fighting I see hurts my heart.
 
I hope we can find a common ground to lay aside difference and learn acceptance. When we pass through this time on mother earth I think learning to break down those walls would be our greatest human accomplishment. 

Peace & Love always

My reply:

So how then do I and others cope with direct confirmation that her mother nor any of her maternal family is enrolled or known by the elders of Flathead Reservation? I spoke directly with the official representative for the Selish/Kootenai tribes. They nor any of the other indian names in her BIO are enrolled or known. And please keep from calling this an attack. Because a heritage that you are banking on needs to be verifiable. Robert McDonald 406-249-1818

Also, how do I and others cope with SOTA's (Shift of The Ages) press release today?
(included was the copy of statement)
http://www.facebook.com/shiftoftheages?v=wall

Please please stop dividing 

travel in light love and purpose

After, I sat in contemplation and finally resolved a few things so I put up the following and was banned from TOMC. Unsure which comment hit the hardest but I was banned because of "posting attacks on LG"

I sit in peace and love for all that is in the myriad of? ways it creates itself. 

dearest brothers & sisters- when a being stands in the light and truth of their words, it radiates such a pure energy that when the words are true we welcome the naysayers as blessed opportunities? to reach a greater audience rather than creating defences against them and causing division between people.

BEings of light, after many human emotions my heart of hearts experienced great sorrow for this woman. May we embrace her in Love and Light so that she may experience the very essence of what she herself lacks. By doing this, she can start again in this new world and simply BE the love she wishes to see rather than BE something other than love. LOVE is all pervasive ALL the time and it is when we unify it with our mind that our human potential becomes unlimited.

join me in sharing a message of: ? 
Love is FREE - Love is FREED - Love is FREEDOM
please change your direction
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: heartoftruthandlight on January 20, 2011, 01:43:23 am
I have a question- if you google kiesha Rae kreps or crowther you get a listing of fraud sites but if you enter little grandmother not a one. How do you get a more balanced front page? One that has truth on it rather than all the false stuff about who she is.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: goozih on January 20, 2011, 06:42:03 am
On this page      http://littlegrandmother.net/SHIFTINGEARTH.aspx    she talks about her crystal burying missions, here is an excerpt "These crystals have been prayed over, watched over, and kept safe for this time. There are many more crystals to be placed back into the earth. Soon one of the crystals in my care will return to the Waitaha people in New Zealand, and they will place their crystal back into their sacred lands."
Could someone please please contact the Maori people and warn them of her impending intrusion. 8)
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: kaioatey on January 20, 2011, 08:26:32 am
I've received a link to KCs video from a good friend who was obviously falling for her. Something seemed fishy after a couple of minutes of watching (Wisdom Keepers???)  so the first thing i did was google NAFSP and voila - here she was.

Thanks guys, you're doing a good thing here.

My sense is that the woman is  a victim of Yellowbird et al who have used her to expand their circle of influence. & catch another fish. When you start feeling people's adoration projected on you it's hard to pull back, it's like heroin.  So Keisha's painted herself into a corner. Kind of sad. I hope she pulls through in a good way.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: LittleOldMan on January 20, 2011, 09:12:33 am
All this talk about a law suit got me wondering.  Has anyone ever heard of a successful or unsuccessful law suit pertaining to anything posted on the web?  If so what were the circumstances?   What would make it valid to be heard either under criminal law or tort?  "LittleOldMan"
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Saga on January 20, 2011, 10:34:51 am
Anyone checked the forum guidelines from TOMC forum? It is forbidden to use other languages than english now and to post on behalf of someone that has been banned, or you get banned yourself... So asking tricky questions is minimized...

And what comes to law suits... If someone has been attacked viciously without a reason with threats towards the life or something or lies spread that make the normal living impossible (like lies about pedophilia or something), I guess it is possible to draw lawsuit from that and be successful. I doubt it is possible to make a lawsuit based on what we have going on here tho, one stealing from other culture's sacred things and using "false identity" in a way and other trying to expose the lies. I'd be very surprised if it would be possible to get lawsuit from that not to mention win it. And if it would be possible, in my point of view, the tribes would be the party that has more chances to win it, this thing hurts them more than Kiesha and her money hoarding group.

Also, as a comment to some earlier response... I think too at times that Kiesha herself doesn't have such a big idea of what is going on and how much controversy there is, and the censore is partly for her as well. People answer the mail on her behalf, she hardly ever is herself in her personal fb account and most of the controversial things are deleted very fast etc. (Either that or she just doesn't care at all, which pretty much makes her look REALLY bad.)
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: wserra on January 20, 2011, 12:42:48 pm
All this talk about a law suit got me wondering.  Has anyone ever heard of a successful or unsuccessful law suit pertaining to anything posted on the web?

Assuming you mean in the U.S., sure.  There have been defamation suits, some tortious interference, some 10b-5s (17 C.F.R. § 240.10b-5, securities manipulation), and likely others.  To be successful, though, there generally is conduct offline as well.  All of these are civil actions.  I know of no criminal prosecutions based only on posts.  It would be hard to picture one in the U.S. under almost any circumstances, thanks to the First Amendment, other than child pornography.

BTW, there is a fair amount of public information about certain legal filings against a "Kiesha Crowther", in some of which folks here might well be interested.  The problem is that I don't know if it's the same person, and I'm not going to post stuff like this without being sure.  I have an address for this person, a middle name, and a husband's name.  I'm new here, and have only read the last couple of pages of this 58-page thread; I don't know if any of this has been posted.  If someone has it, and I can be sure we're talking of the same person, I'll be glad to fill the board in on the details.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: czech on January 20, 2011, 01:22:44 pm
Dr. Carroll mentions in his article that Kiesha Crowther was born Kiesha Rae Kreps in Sanford, Colorado. From the "Juicy Living" video published on Youtube it follows that she has recently moved to Santa Fe, New Mexico.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: LittleOldMan on January 20, 2011, 02:02:25 pm
Thanks!  "LOM"
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: wserra on January 20, 2011, 02:56:21 pm
Dr. Carroll mentions in his article that Kiesha Crowther was born Kiesha Rae Kreps in Sanford, Colorado.

That's the person.  Do the mods agree this is the "Kiesha Crowther" who is the subject of the thread?  Reason for the care: it's all public information, so there's nothing unlawful about publishing it, but I always want to be careful about invading an innocent's privacy.  "Little Grandmother", OTOH, has clearly made herself a public figure.

To what "article" do you refer?
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: piya on January 20, 2011, 03:17:44 pm
Goozih,

I have made contact with the Maori.

Waiting for word back
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Defend the Sacred on January 20, 2011, 06:19:01 pm
To what "article" do you refer?

This one: http://www.newagefraud.org/smf/index.php?topic=2871.msg26887#msg26887
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: goozih on January 20, 2011, 07:28:14 pm
That's Great Piya. I hope they are not fooled by Kiesha's fabrications. Just guessing but I think the full regalia (a boys shirt, bad face paint, Moccasins) comes back as soon as she leaves USA.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Spandex~Atom on January 20, 2011, 08:19:36 pm
(http://i1115.photobucket.com/albums/k558/SpandexAtom/dontbefooled.gif)
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: KrazyKraut on January 28, 2011, 02:26:37 am
This thread was accidentally removed, but restored from a backup dated Jan. 20th. All postings after this date are lost, alas.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Defend the Sacred on January 28, 2011, 02:42:02 am
It was the hovering KieshAnna that broke the board.

OK, no it wasn't. Just a tech mishap.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: 180IQ on January 28, 2011, 03:00:03 am
This has to be the longest forum thread EVER! Maybe too long for the forum software to handle without breaking??
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: nemesis on January 28, 2011, 09:09:35 am
The engines cannae take it captain!

(http://resources1.news.com.au/images/2010/11/02/1225946/534733-star-trek.jpg)




Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: AlaskaGrl on January 28, 2011, 03:28:34 pm
Spock,

Is there a Computer in this sector capable of handling the Terra Quads of lies, story changing and woo woo videos this woman has generated?




(http://www.treksinscifi.com/trekdaily/pictures/2008-11-22-New_Trek_cast.jpg)
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: educatedindian on January 29, 2011, 01:00:30 am
If anyone saved the posts you made that have disappeared, please repost. Also if any of you have the posts sent directly to your email, either repost them or send to the mods to repost.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: DizLiz on January 29, 2011, 01:52:02 pm
Here is my post. I got kicked out of the "tribes of many colors" for writing this: :)


Joined: Mon 17. Jan 2011, 23:11
Posts: 4
Location: Sweden     
You can go right ahead and bann me, Steve. Surely you would know that in a democracy critical thinking and questioning among people is a sign of good health and is encouraged, especially when it comes to self-declared leaders whose background is ambigous and claims are questionable. By threatening me, "tribes of many colors" risks to become a sect, that does not tolerate free-speech and basic human rights. On the contrary, this forum can be interpreted as a way to manipulate others into thinking that questioning is trolling.

I have closely looked up, Dr. Allan Carroll and found out that he is both a historian and professor at Nebraska University. And since I also study history at a university, and know that that kind of academic work follows strict rules to that of a university, which ultimately makes him very trustworthy.

I sincerely hope that you Steve become more democratic and respectful in your approach towards others in this forum and perhaps start to question things yourself, for example that Keisha charges money for her message.

Love and light is not to bann people who have the courage to be critical. Love and light is when everyone is allowed to have their say, and where different opinions are allowed to flourish.

Much love from Liz


Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: DizLiz on January 29, 2011, 02:03:05 pm
This song reminds me of Keisha and her 'for sale-message': http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YcXMhwF4EtQ
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: KrazyKraut on January 29, 2011, 03:22:28 pm
Good Morning!
Esowatch has blogged about Kiesha: http://blog.esowatch.com/?p=2867

Here is an english translation:
Quote
Kiesha Crowther

Lets do a little thought experiment: Imagine you are a catholic. Now,
one fine day, you see a sign at a shabby tent: "Jesus reborn and endorsed
by the pope. Come to my friday payer, for only 100 $ Odin will forgive you
your sins. Aurareading by Jesus upon reservation. Chrisitian Reiki-
order today our jesus course and become a certified christian
reiki-master yourself. Reserve a seat for Jesus monthly easter mass,
andour special ramadan payer (movable holiday)". You would not be
amused. Reincarnation is not according to catholic doctrine. Claiming
to be Jesus is an extreme hybris. The claim the pope endorses you is
surely false. Asking for money for a mass is not acceptable, and to
pay for forgivness for your sins also (although it was at some
time). Finally, claiming Odin will forgive you sins, a friday prayer,
aura reading and Reiki shows the author has no idea about
christianity. Now, you would surely go to the police, and the author
of the sign would be in real trouble.

However, if you are a Native American in a similar situation, your
rights are less well protected. Anybody can claim he is endorsed by
some elders, and they do. There are lots of fake shamans, elders and
medicine men who exploitthe guilibility of new age followers. It's a
huge market, and it is a continued exploitation and ridicule of
ancient cultures.

Kiesha Crowther is one example of such a fraud. She has gathered a
great many followers, and she is playing the game like all frauds:
Charge a lot of money from your followers and sue everybody who
exposes you. She is one of the frauds exposed at NAFPS, a project that
for some time now shares our server. NAFPS is run by Native Americans
who take action in a similar spirit like we at Esowatch do. Their
Forum is much bigger than Esowatch though, with >2000 members. We can
recommend reading there for anybody who whishes to find out what real
natives think about the shamans you can find in the Internet.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Saga on January 30, 2011, 08:03:15 am
The latest new I remember were this:

"SOTA does not know and has no affiliation with Keisha Crowther aka "Little Grandmother." Don Alejandro "Wande...ring Wolf" does not know or "recognize" her as a "Shaman," "Wisdom Keeper," or "Elder" of the Continental Council of Indigenous Elders of the Americas as she claims. Neither Don Alejandro nor the SOTA project authorized use of "Wandering Wolf's" messages or the SOTA video material used in support of the personal opinions she shares in her videos and viral messages. Much of information she is sharing is misleading and "taken" out of context.

SOTA is not here to push anyone else down. The truth will eventually reach the surface. Our prayers are that Mrs. Crowther learns a valuable lesson and she, as well as her team and followers, benefit as result."

From Shift of the ages facebook site under someone's comment about Kiesha.

And then there were the discussion about Veetkam first starting to delete Kiesha's posts and then taking Kiesha's admin rights on  the tomc fb page, then kicking her and every member one by one from the page and deleting all the events and deleting the page... I did heard that there is new tomc official page in fb, created by other big fans now tho.

Oh, and remember commenting that I don't wish the "tomc-attack" even to Veetkam and it wasn't he who sprayed the dirt on the "beautiful thing" altho he is getting all the blame now. I never got along with mr V and there were lots to hope in his behaviour, but really, there's lots to hope in Kiesha's and whole tribe's behaviour as well... He was just bit more straight forward with his feelings of superiority at times. :) Oh and about the reasons of doing what he did to the tomc page: the reason was, if I recall correct, that things were done behind his back or something.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Diana on January 31, 2011, 04:59:30 am
I came accross this article and it is almost identicle to LG, only this person lied about his military and family experience, much like kiesha has done about her own family back ground. There are alot of sililarities. Also some very interesting comments. http://www.spokesman.com/stories/2011/jan/27/fbi-says-motivational-speaker-built-business-on/

14January 27, 2011

FBI says motivational speaker built business on lies



The FBI arrested a man who once worked as a clinical educator at a Spokane hospital, accusing him of fabricating his life’s story with tales of military valor and family tragedy, and then committing mail fraud by profiting on the lies.

William G. Hillar, 66, worked at Inland Northwest Health Services from September 1994 to July 1997. Before that he worked for other Spokane businesses including Metropolitan Mortgage and Securities Co.

It’s what he’s accused of doing afterward that earned him notoriety.

The federal complaint filed in U.S. District Court in Baltimore accused Hillar, now living in Maryland, of capitalizing on his fraud to give motivational speeches and training to police and graduate students. He billed himself as a retired U.S. Special Forces colonel trained in tactical counterterrorism, explosive ordnance, emergency medicine and psychological warfare. He claimed to have served in Asia, the Middle East and Central and South America.

His business, Bill Hillar Training, offered speeches and workshops on topics such as transnational drug smuggling, human trafficking, tactical counterterrorism and transnational criminal gangs.

Hillar’s alleged ruse began to unravel last year when students at the Monterey Institute of International Studies questioned his credentials.

He claimed in workshops that the 2008 action movie “Taken,” starring Liam Neeson, was loosely based on the kidnapping and murder of his daughter. Film executives have denied any connection, according to the Los Angeles Times.

Hillar was never in the U.S. Army. A records search showed that he did serve in the U.S. Coast Guard from 1962 to 1970, achieving the rank of radarman, petty officer third class. There’s no record he ever deployed to the global regions he claimed, nor did he have any documented training in the specialized fields he listed.

The alleged fraud ensnared many government agencies, businesses and colleges.

Hillar’s website claimed that he gave presentations in Spokane to Shriner’s Hospital and Cowles Publishing Co., which publishes The Spokesman-Review. That website has since been taken down.

Hillar once lived on the South Hill and filed for bankruptcy three times in nine years while in Spokane.

The federal judge in Baltimore hearing his case agreed to release him on a $50,000 bond.


Some comments:

Stay on topic.

Organizations I'm sure spent plenty of money to have this loser lie to them. Glad he's (well on bail) off the streets.

Bankrupt 3 times in 9 years? Should have been a hint he wasn't who he said he was. It took students at Monterey to ferret him out. Makes you wonder how he got past all the hiring officials at Met and NW Health. Don't you do background checks?

Zelda Krup on January 27 at 11:59 a.m.

Hee-hee, good one, Scoutster.

The story arc for these military imposters is always the same. It starts with lying about the service record, then they're on to heroic exploits and then it's feats of derring-do and espionage.

The rationalization when caught is usually the same, too. “It started out with a slight exaggeration, your honor, and I got carried away with all the attention. I got dug in so deep I couldn't get out. I didn't mean for it to go this far.”

I'm surprised that this continues to happen but I guess they're able to summon up enough bluff and bluster that people are afraid to challenge them until the tales become so elaborate and ridiculous that even credulous people aren't fooled. Corporate training programs are rife with b.s. artists.


Zelda Krup on January 27 at 2:08 p.m.

@bszottlinger — What I learned was how to develop my skills at bologna detection.

A lot of these training programs are perfect places for rip-offs (not necessarily the same thing as a con, but you get my drift). The outcomes are ambiguous and hard to measure and the quality measurements are subjective at best. If a person doesn't get anything out of the training, it's all too easy for the instructor to turn the criticism around and say the participant didn't “get it” or lacked motivation.

What tripped up this guy was venturing into substantive content and having students who were discerning enough to know what he said didn't add up.


Lim lemtsh,

Diana
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Smart Mule on January 31, 2011, 11:37:24 pm
bio change - http://littlegrandmother.net/BIO.aspx

No longer claiming indian, but still claiming to have been initiated as a shaman by a mystery ndn.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Teacher on January 31, 2011, 11:48:06 pm
Interestingly my virus protection issues a warning about that page  "Trend Micro has confirmed that this website can transmit malicious software of has been involved in online scams or fraud." 

Go figure   ::)
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Saga on February 01, 2011, 08:41:25 am
At least she doesn't claim to be taught by elders anymore (if not counting the mystery man who "initiated her to shamanism"), but "ancestors" and "grandmothers past", ie. spirit guides.

Since I went to read the newest description where the link goes to and spotted the "I am" from there again, I'll repost this link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I_Am_Activity

Of course it is healthier to brag with how many people have found her videos from youtube. ;) How on earth can people miss this egomaniac bragging and think she does this "just for the world" and to "serve" her purpose. "Here I AM, admire me! Love me, pay attention to me, the way I want you to!" :D
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: goozih on February 01, 2011, 04:59:59 pm
I am banned from TOMC forum (luckily) so I can't quote the post but one poster in the Rainbow cafe/native american something or other said he was glad she doesn't use Native American stuff because it makes her message more universal, THIS made me wonder about her followers. They don't care that she LIES ,That her message is SHALLOW to say the least. I know all of you are as sick of her as I am but I am flabergasted by how these people are fooled?or I really don't have the words to describe the situation because she is such a fraud yet they hold onto the image of her ???? I just don't get it... :-\
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Diana on February 01, 2011, 06:24:57 pm
I am banned from TOMC forum (luckily) so I can't quote the post but one poster in the Rainbow cafe/native american something or other said he was glad she doesn't use Native American stuff because it makes her message more universal, THIS made me wonder about her followers. They don't care that she LIES ,That her message is SHALLOW to say the least. I know all of you are as sick of her as I am but I am flabergasted by how these people are fooled?or I really don't have the words to describe the situation because she is such a fraud yet they hold onto the image of her ???? I just don't get it... :-\

I can't help but notice that all of Kiesha's followers online responses' is always the same drivel "verbatim." As in we believe, love and light, there's so much hate out there, etc.... It seems like the same person is writing this, as in a sock puppet. I truly believe that a lot of the postings are done by kiesha and her team to make it look like she has more followers than she really does or to whip up more support for herself. As you know there's saftey in numbers, so monkey see monkey do.


Lim lemtsh,


Diana   
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Saga on February 01, 2011, 06:44:06 pm
My view: because she offers everything that is "trendy" in spiritual and partly conspiracy realms at the moment (they seem to be pretty often the same thing :p), in neat bundle, altho maybe bit misinformed in some parts. It is really very theory centered thing she has going on there, offer people theories that keep their minds occupied in "wonder"... and then coat with sugar and syrup to cover the fear mongering part in peaceful transformation.
She is a lazy person's guru, kind of. All the work in looking for alternative theories is done for you and nicely mixed and matched. And then of course there is the part that attracts people who are worried about ecological issues and humanity... and they are spoon feed in little doses to believe in the rest of the theories... almost worked for me too, before I started checking other sources...

(And it is amazing how you actually keep ignoring everything that tells different story and only find the similarities for a while when checking other sources and how, when it finally hits you, you feel that you can't believe any source that has any sort of information even slightly similar to hers... until finally getting back to balance and starting to see that some things are good even tho she is dabbling with them and twisting it. Sorry, experience talking. :))

And to Diana: there might be of course sock puppets to make it even worse, but I was part of the scene long enough to know that there are huge amount of people who actually have bought the same method. It is bit like cult affirmation, most people adopt that thinking after a while in tomc (or most of the "spiritual scenes" at the moment, it seems to be pretty obvious reasoning - everyone who doesn't follow the same set of thoughts is not part of "us" or "awakened" and is one of "them" and ofc hateful/obstacle/dark/low/not going to ascent/etc... most interesting thing is that most spiritual groups attack viciously against anyone who uses the word "god" in religious way :p).
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: goozih on February 02, 2011, 11:06:40 am
I don't know if this person is serious but on this youtube video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QLPrjf8Tp94&feature=channel (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QLPrjf8Tp94&feature=channel)
A PERSON POSTED
Quote
#@Ores77 Dearest friends and family, members of the tribe of many colors.. Little Grandmother has fallen on very hard times, financially she has been grounded to a halt as she lives solely on the kindness of others and their donations. Please dear family if you can spare any offerings Little Grandmother is? in need of the support. to send an offering send an email for more info.

May 2 at 6:29pm
girlznguitarz 8 hours ago
girlznguitarz 8 hours ago
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: goozih on February 02, 2011, 11:22:05 am
here on TOMC forum  http://tribeofmanycolors.us/tribeforum/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=397&start=30 (http://tribeofmanycolors.us/tribeforum/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=397&start=30)
jungle earth posted
Quote
Regarding the negative attacks against Little Grandmother I just want to say this... I have looked at some of these other sites claiming various things about Little Grandmother, and everything on those sites is pretty much full of anger and spitefulness. No proof about anything, just statements with nothing to back them up. No sources to state where this supposed true information came from. Anybody can say anything, that doesn't make it true. So who's to say that those sites and what they are saying about Little Grandmother are true??

I have looked at those sites and I cannot see anything positive about them. No positive message of any kind that I can see, no trying to spread love, joy, or peace, no messages of spirituality or working together, no messages of unity, no messages about loving the Earth and loving each other. Just anger, division, judgment and accusations. Then I look at Little Grandmother’s site and what her message is saying. Her site says that we are to become love, that we are all one, that we should love Mother Earth and each other. That’s proof enough for me of who to believe!

Thank you Little Grandmother for your beautiful and inspiring message. Let’s all try to shine the light and become love as much as we can.
I WONDER IF THEY ARE TALKING ABOUT US?

and a peron named "LAKOTA"
Quote
JungleEarth :heartglow: I would advise that you stay away from such negative sites ~ they will only act as a magnet and draw you in ~ Why would anyone want to spend time on negative forums when we have a forum here so dedicated to LOVE
LOL...LOL...LOL...THESE PEOPLE ARE BRINGING ME THE JOY OF LAUGHTER
I BET LAKOTA IS NOT LAKOTA
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Saga on February 02, 2011, 12:57:44 pm
The hard times request was posted last may, if I recall correctly, it is probably just hanging around there still... Think that person who has just bought a house of 350 000 dollars or something wouldn't have too hard times on her... unless she is still able to use every penny she gets, maybe buying native inspired items and crystals from internet. :) Ok, evil jokes aside, I think that request is from last year, before all the hype started. :)

And yes, there are lots of those people who say that there's no proof what so ever and refuse to see that Kiesha herself is offering lots of proof by changing the story all the time instead of coming clean... And yes, everyone who talks against her are dark, no matter if they do it for concerns about people getting hurt or the concerns about lies or just because they think that her talks are silly and misguide people or because they are plain evil. You know, when there is only one truth, everyone against it is one of "them", no matter the reasons.

I have to say that after spending lots of time reflecting, I still spot pieces of what I resonate with from Kiesha's message (the love and working for better future mostly), but with the person and the "we against everyone else" mentality of the "tribe" I don't resonate at all. There is nothing beautiful in that. If we are to work for the benefit of the whole earth, there is no room for thinking about dark ones and there's no room for lies dragging things down. It has to be based on acceptance and not on absolute truth (based on lies in this occasion) and the enemies of it.

(And really, there are tons of blogs and texts that oppose what Kiesha is doing in all respect and are full of love and acceptance and working towards better future still, in truth.)
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: czech on February 02, 2011, 01:25:18 pm
Quote
I have looked at those sites and I cannot see anything positive about them. No positive message of any kind that I can see, no trying to spread love, joy, or peace, no messages of spirituality or working together, no messages of unity, no messages about loving the Earth and loving each other. Just anger, division, judgment and accusations.
I WONDER IF THEY ARE TALKING ABOUT US?

I came to this forum toward the end of the last year because of Kiesha. I resonated with some of the things she said but some things felt/sounded very odd. I was very thankful to find the truth about her here - thankful to everybody who shared their knowledge and experience so that I could come to an informed conclusion about her.

Since I came here I have learned many things that yes, are very, very far from love, joy and peace. The Indigenous peoples have suffered over 400 years of genocide and there is hardly anything positive you can find about that. It would be very difficult to exclude anger from this equasion. The way I understand it is that to the Indigenous people, the things that Kiesha and others like her are doing are a continuation of their cultural and spiritual genocide. You cannot expose exploiters without judgment and accusation.

However, I have felt a very strong spirit of working together on gathering and spreading information, and very clear messages about loving and respecting the Earth on this forum. Anyone who equals "love, joy and peace" to being spoonfed sweet phrases of how they are special and chosen, will not find it here.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Freija on February 02, 2011, 03:34:24 pm
The way I see it is that truly spiritual people living according to their beliefs, sharing time, money, food, compassion, help and care with people around them, do not have to talk about it. Why would they feel the need to continously convince others that they DO have love in their hearts, when they know that their deeds speak louder than any words?

The spiritual leaders I´ve met have been very quiet, often on the verge of being shy and introvert. What they do is between them and the spiritworld and their people.

When people constantly speak about love,love,love,love....like Kiesha´s followers....it seems more like they are trying to impress. Or maybe convince themselves. Love can be lived without a word - but still be understood across all boarders.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: nemesis on February 02, 2011, 05:17:22 pm
I am definitely feeling czech and Freija's posts.

I am sick to my guts of people who talk endlessly about LOVE!! and yet whose deeds are full of hate.

Words are cheap.  I wish people would open their eyes and minds to reality and see these criminals for what they are. 
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Saga on February 02, 2011, 06:50:49 pm
Agree, most of the truly spiritual people don't endlessly speak about how spiritual or loving they are and how they practise their spirituality, but act from their hearts and make difference in the world and/or with their own people. Some of them don't even define themselves "spiritual", they have no time for definations and theories when helping out where they can. :) And most of them say that it is their responsibility and don't even wait thanks for it... But guess it is easier to be tangled in theories than get into the business of actually doing something...

I got my first "tribe-attacks" because I started asking why we weren't actually doing anything physically for the earth, felt so hypocrite to say that we "love" earth and continue damaging it at the same time without even trying to support any preserving/protecting activities. Actually sent long email to Kiesha about it too and asked why she isn't talking more for environmental protection things and that in my point of view it would be good to suggest people to take better care of the earth and their close ones in physical level too and wanted to know if I was wrong in thinking so, because my heart said that it is very essential thing. This was part of the famous email where I asked from her if we were supposed to follow what her heart says is right or what our own heart says is right, lol. :) I sent it in all the email adresses I found to her and in her fb profile, because I was in the turning point with my confusion and felt very uncomfortable... Well, as we all know, I didn't get any answer. But some days later she (or the assistant) posted the message with contents that said that she is not the guru (altho she is THE shaman) and we should listen our hearts (and expect to find the same message she speaks of, because otherwise you are in low energy and a dark one...).
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: goozih on February 02, 2011, 11:58:51 pm
I am glad you are here, I have had my share of trials and errors . It isn't always easy to get through and I am glad to be here as well. :)
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Freija on February 03, 2011, 10:29:21 am
and a peron named "LAKOTA"
Quote
JungleEarth :heartglow: I would advise that you stay away from such negative sites ~ they will only act as a magnet and draw you in ~ Why would anyone want to spend time on negative forums when we have a forum here so dedicated to LOVE
LOL...LOL...LOL...THESE PEOPLE ARE BRINGING ME THE JOY OF LAUGHTER
I BET LAKOTA IS NOT LAKOTA

It seems to me most of these people are very scared of conflicts, arguments and confrontations.
In their loving world, there is no need to take a stand against abuse, exploitation, injustice etc.

I would like to ask them if they would defend their family if they got attacked?  Would they defend their country? Would they stop an abuser hurting their children? Help a rape victim to chase off the rapist?  If they say YES, then why isn´t it okey  for Natives to defend themselves?? If they say no....it opens up for an extremely scary world!
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Saga on February 04, 2011, 09:23:48 am
Those are good questions, Freija.

Wonder what has happened to the blog firstnationsdiscussculturaltheft.blogspot.com... there were all the info gathered in the same place, but can't find it anymore. Threatened with lawsuit or something?

I saw that Facebook is infested with "kiesha" pages, there are those in almost every cathegory, the biggest fans are in power with the official site now and have created one page that shows the latest posts with her name everywhere... And the discussion here about her has mostly died. Probably the reason why all the "tribers" are overflowingly happy, there's of course nothing wrong in their actions without constant reminders about it...

And btw, I read the indybay article about Kiesha again... which has mostly turned into a war against Al Carroll... Can't help thinking if it is so much easier to pick up the dirt that someone is throwing on the author than actually read the article critically and find the points that actually are true even without any controversy the writer could add in them, who ever he is. Meaning, there are things you can easily check up yourself and see that Kiesha has lied about them, but instead the controversy against the writer seems to wipe out any evidence, once again. Really have to wonder how picky sight people have.

Even if taking the whole nafps out of the picture (which has mostly listed links and personal opinions anyway and occasional info), there is still enough evidence to doubt her agenda.
Arvol's statement about not selling spirituality and Don Alejandro's team saying that they don't back her up alone would be big clues that something is wrong, since she DID claim to have all of the elders behind her at first and even mentioned Don Alejandro by name at one point. Am pretty sure that with right keywords you still find some of the old statements from google cache and people have them saved as screenshots as well...
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Smart Mule on February 04, 2011, 03:48:28 pm
Those are good questions, Freija.

Wonder what has happened to the blog firstnationsdiscussculturaltheft.blogspot.com... there were all the info gathered in the same place, but can't find it anymore. Threatened with lawsuit or something?

We're not quite sure yet what happened to the blog.

Quote
I saw that Facebook is infested with "kiesha" pages, there are those in almost every cathegory, the biggest fans are in power with the official site now and have created one page that shows the latest posts with her name everywhere... And the discussion here about her has mostly died. Probably the reason why all the "tribers" are overflowingly happy, there's of course nothing wrong in their actions without constant reminders about it...

I know that discussions have slowed down but rest assured there are things happening in the backround!

Quote
And btw, I read the indybay article about Kiesha again... which has mostly turned into a war against Al Carroll... Can't help thinking if it is so much easier to pick up the dirt that someone is throwing on the author than actually read the article critically and find the points that actually are true even without any controversy the writer could add in them, who ever he is. Meaning, there are things you can easily check up yourself and see that Kiesha has lied about them, but instead the controversy against the writer seems to wipe out any evidence, once again. Really have to wonder how picky sight people have.

All of the points in the article can be easily verified.  Unfortunately the individuals who preach Kieshamanism don't want to know the truth.  If the truth was presented to them with documentation, directly in front of thiem I still think they would make excuses.

Quote
Even if taking the whole nafps out of the picture (which has mostly listed links and personal opinions anyway and occasional info), there is still enough evidence to doubt her agenda.
Arvol's statement about not selling spirituality and Don Alejandro's team saying that they don't back her up alone would be big clues that something is wrong, since she DID claim to have all of the elders behind her at first and even mentioned Don Alejandro by name at one point. Am pretty sure that with right keywords you still find some of the old statements from google cache and people have them saved as screenshots as well...

Most of her old statements have been saved via screen shots.  She has said what she has said and no amount of backpedalling will make her prior statements go away.  Quite a number of them can be accessed via archive.org.  The thing is, the people who have been blinded are not going to accept reality.  They just won't.  That is incredibly sad.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: mtkoan on February 04, 2011, 07:37:10 pm
Hi all,

This is my first post on this forum.

I've archived a copy of the above referenced blog (http://firstnationsdiscussculturaltheft.blogspot.com/) which is now offline.

You can access it here: http://frst.org/firstnationsblog/ (http://frst.org/firstnationsblog/)
The links don't work, but all of the content (text/pictures) on the main page are there.

I'm a white guy from NJ, but I think this information is very important, and want to see it out there.

EDIT: Wish I got more, but I didn't notice it was down until too late.  Mostly likely Google received complaints from Kiesha's group, and the blog got flagged as inappropriate/slander/spam.  This whole thing makes me real sad -- that so many people don't seem to care about the truth, are unaffected by the obvious reality.

Its possible the owner of the blog can contact Google and see if it can be put back online.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: czech on February 04, 2011, 07:59:11 pm
Thank you, mtkoan, and welcome
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: goozih on February 05, 2011, 02:43:40 am
Thanks for the great post :)
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Freija on February 05, 2011, 09:11:08 am
Seems like Kiesha´s followers are concerned about the problems in Egypt.
They are concerned about Kiesha not being able to go there in April, so that she can bring in love and light to the troubled people.
 ??? :o
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: nemesis on February 05, 2011, 09:13:49 am
Seems like Kiesha´s followers are concerned about the problems in Egypt.
They are concerned about Kiesha not being able to go there in April, so that she can bring in love and light to the troubled people.
 ??? :o

You would have thought that, with Kiesha's supa spirchul powers of prophecy that she would have foreseen the situation in Egypt in advance.
 ;D
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Freija on February 05, 2011, 09:40:21 am
Seems like Kiesha´s followers are concerned about the problems in Egypt.
They are concerned about Kiesha not being able to go there in April, so that she can bring in love and light to the troubled people.
 ??? :o

You would have thought that, with Kiesha's supa spirchul powers of prophecy that she would have foreseen the situation in Egypt in advance.
 ;D


 ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Saga on February 05, 2011, 06:15:07 pm
It's funny tho. It isn't the first time that the country she has announced to be the target of her journey get in the trouble before her journey... Think it was earthquakes or something last time, can't remember. She is herald of bad news. ;p
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: czech on February 06, 2011, 12:36:02 pm
I believe this has not been reposted here yet from the discussion below Al Carroll's article on Indybay
http://www.indybay.org/newsitems/2011/01/11/18668858.php
by "truthseeker":

How can a person committing misrepresentation, fraud and grand larceny be a feel good person with a message. After the show she's laughing at you all the way to the bank. I did some research on Kiesher Crowther. I also researched Al Carroll. I wrote to the Confederated Salish Kootenai Tribes. They validated Al Carrol. They distanced themselves from Kiesha Crowther as a fraud.....

Al Carrol is an Apache descendent and community college professor.

We have zero connection to Kiesha Crowther. Her online talks are not based in any kind of authentic knowledge from this tribe, or as far as I can tell, any tribe. The statement that's floating around was first shared on a website called Plastic shamans. I have not been able to trace the exact origin of the statement but I strongly suspect it was given by a member of our community who was so outraged by Kiesha that they took a personal risk in giving a statement they claimed was from our elders. However, the statement is very similar to a statement the elders will soon release, which will be authentic, official and posted on our web site.

I've been contacted by people from Hawaii, Spain, Denmark, Switzerland and Germany who appear to have given her great fees to speak. Zero dollars have come to support our language, culture, safety net programs of this reservation. We have no record of the family names she's shared in her many biographical posts. Nothing about her stories feels remotely authentic as pertaining to Salish, Lakota, or general Indian culture or beliefs.

Rob McDonald
Communications Director
Confederated Salish Kootenai Tribes
(406)675-2700, ext. 1222
robertmc [at] cskt.org
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Freija on February 06, 2011, 01:20:59 pm
I am really sorry for the Salish. Not only have they been grossly misrepresented, lied about, exploited and used for personal gain by a person who has no connection what so ever to that culture. On top of that they now have to deal with hundreds of inquiries, taking up their precious time normally used for dealing with the every day plight most Native American communities face.

It´s an extremely selfish, greedy and inconsiderate way of making a living.
Especially since she is using not only Native people but also the followers, their trust - their money - their loyalty.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: goozih on February 06, 2011, 03:42:22 pm
Kiesha "Little Grandmother" is  the DRIVE THRU OF SPIRITUALITY, get your crystals, Atlantian theories, Aliens,Pyramids,And this week 2 for one crystal skull special and did I say in "FULL REGALIA"
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: educatedindian on February 06, 2011, 06:33:16 pm
The site that saved the content of the First Nations Cultural Theft blog also saved an earlier post of mine. I'll repost it below. It was a simple suggestion how Crowther could avoid the protests that seem to be hurting her, both her utter lack of credibility and financially.

-------------

Ms. Crowther, and anyone else in her inner circle, if you want to stop the protests against you, it's quite simple:

Drop all claims of being a "shaman" or chosen by any Native elder or elders. Period. All such claims have been proven false and everyone knows it.

Drop all claims of Native ancestry. Even your own family states that you are not and they are not Native.

Drop all use of Native spiritual items, pipes, drums, regalia, feathers, and face paint. Publicly admit you were wrong to use them.

Publicly proclaim what you are is simply a woman with your own message.

Quit relying on phony claims about being Native or chosen by Natives because everyone can see you are not.

Publicly admit and apologize for your previous lies. Then your life can go forward and you can deliver your message in peace.

Pay reparations to all those you have wronged.

Pay back all who want their money back.

Give HALF of all your previous earnings to the people you have wronged the most, the Salish.

Give the money to charities that serve the Salish.

It is wrong for you to live in a luxury home in Santa Fe that cost over $350,000 while making money off of Natives who often go hungry and cold.

--------

Like Sky pointed out, it's interesting that Crowther now has finally dropped completely any claim of Native ancestry in her bio, though she continues the "I was a made a shaman" claim by a supposed mystery elder no one else knows or heard of.

Really, if she were to drop the knockoffs of Native regalia, admit that she's just one individual with a message that was not appointed by anyone but herself, and apologize and pay reparations to the Salish, all the protests would stop.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: syl9wil on February 06, 2011, 06:43:55 pm
I happened upon a presentation of hers in Santa Fe while looking for another event (not a new age one FYI) and decided to check it out. I left after about 1.5 hours with a rather sick at heart feeling and in my intuitive gut realized she was not for real. Her stories about experiences with animals did not add up and were way too outlandish. She started the lecture yesterday with a "negative story" about herself and her assistant being robbed of money, credit cards, driver's license, and her colleague (I think she was some type of organizer) being robbed of her child's private school tuition money that was in her purse. She put a new age spin on the event and waxed philosophical about it, and stated that she would be called out for a police interview. Then she went into her guided meditation and, IMO has a hypnotic/trance like effect, planting seeds of such "love" and "compassion" that when she was allegedly called for the police interview (she claimed to have left her belongings in the kitchen, the event took place in a church) that several people passed the hats for a collection to help. Why would anyone leave that much money for tuition, in a purse, at an event like this? The thing is even I was taken in at first and pitched in, then in hindsight realized, what a con artist! And, she is good at this!

The whole thing smacked of phoniness - her assistant did not even seem surprised by any of this (the donation). There are no police reports in the paper that reference this. I came home and researched her and came across this forum. Just want to let others know about this scam and, feel sad about the vulnerability and lack of discernment among the participants.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: czech on February 06, 2011, 07:15:38 pm
that several people passed the hats for a collection to help. Why would anyone leave that much money for tuition, in a purse, at an event like this? The thing is even I was taken in at first and pitched in, then in hindsight realized, what a con artist! And, she is good at this!

The whole thing smacked of phoniness - her assistant did not even seem surprised by any of this (the donation). There are no police reports in the paper that reference this. I came home and researched her and came across this forum. Just want to let others know about this scam and, feel sad about the vulnerability and lack of discernment among the participants.

That is pathetic. Sorry you lost some of your money to this scam. Thank you for the firsthand experience!
Welcome to the forum.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: educatedindian on February 06, 2011, 07:59:15 pm
...And the discussion here about her has mostly died. Probably the reason why all the "tribers" are overflowingly happy, there's of course nothing wrong in their actions without constant reminders about it...

I know that discussions have slowed down but rest assured there are things happening in the backround!
 

It's strange anyone would think things are quieter. This thread is the most active and most read thread the forum has ever had. It is the fifth ranked source of information on Crowther on the net. A thread begun by another nafps member on another cultwatch site is number four. Reposts of the article I wrote are numbers three and six. And that's with a search with Crowther's name alone, not counting the google suggestions of Kiesha Crowther fraud and Kiesha Crowther fake, ranked number three and four in their suggestions.

In fact more people seem to come here for information on her than her own forum. I was surprised to see just how inactive it is. They don't even have one fifth of the membership of nafps, not that many threads, and most threads fairly short.

Crowther and her people spend much if not most of their time trying to do damage control. They make one statement after another, have to continually censor or bar people from their own forums, and send out a constant stream of legal threats.

And now the latest, a message from Crowther's manager Jennifer Ferraro. She sent out a message which claimed she (or perhaps Crowther) has cursed everyone who criticized Crowther, and that we must all apologize to Crowther, or the "curse" would not be lifted. Seriously...I mean, seriously? :o ::) It was so bizarre to see, it's hard to believe, even for Crowther and co.

Yes, truly more evidence of their belief in peace, love, and light.  ;D

But if anyone wishes there to be more activity against Crowther, we're certainly all for it. Let me suggest:

1. Keep reposting my article in other places. And anyone going to make comments at the indybay site, don't waste time trying to defend me. I mean I appreciate the thought and the support. But keep the focus on Crowther and her lies and abuse. And it's not like any of the internet bashing or rumor spreading has ever hurt me. I'm a successful professor and author, with lots of good recognition and awards, working with lots of good people.

2. Spread the message elsewhere. Let all cheer Mtkoan for his rescue of the blog. What he did can be done by others. Let's use the same tactic that critics of Scientology use, starting lots of mirror sites.

Let me also suggest that those who have been harmed by Crowther start their own blogs and relate their experiences. It's as simple as going to blogger.com and signing up. If the Kieshame-on bunch want to shut down critics, that will take a lot of effort and money. Hurting them in the pocketbook is where they will feel it.

3. Also what will hurt them in the pocketbook is getting her ceremony selling gigs canceled. There is an upcoming gathering in Palm Springs. Everyone, write the owners and to the organizers, and urge them to pull their support for a fraud speaking there. Make your emails polite and cordial of course.

4. For those who are in or near southern California, if her ceremony selling isn't canceled, show up in personn to protest. Hand out flyers, esp flyers with the Salish elders statement. Try to get media to show up to cover the protest so that the first real media exposure she gets is negative.

5. Also for hitting her in the pocketbook, contact the IRS and urge them to do an audit. It's very suspicious how she went from going bankrupt several years in a row to suddenly being able to afford to live in a very luxurious home.
Here's how to do it: http://www.irs.gov/individuals/article/0,,id=106778,00.html

Any other suggestions?
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: czech on February 06, 2011, 08:27:28 pm

And now the latest, a message from Crowther's manager Jennifer Ferraro. She sent out a message which claimed she (or perhaps Crowther) has cursed everyone who criticized Crowther, and that we must all apologize to Crowther, or the "curse" would not be lifted. Seriously...I mean, seriously? :o ::) It was so bizarre to see, it's hard to believe, even for Crowther and co.

Yes, truly more evidence of their belief in peace, love, and light.  ;D


Considering this information, and the post before this by syl9wil, I don't think the whole Kiesha business can get any more absurd!
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: critter - a white non-ndn person on February 06, 2011, 08:51:33 pm
lmao.. a curse? really?  lmao again.. that's all i can do at this point.. laugh.

that is not just absurd, it's insane. and her followers ? they think this is good
loving compassionate healing as opposed to negative?  guess if they *really*
believe then they'll be too scared to leave now. or KC will put a curse on them
too.. 

well, a bunch of projects just came my way.. this is really good news.. if that's
her curse, please curse me again soon!

what freakcakes.  ;D
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: critter - a white non-ndn person on February 06, 2011, 09:38:14 pm
on a more serious note, the fact that KC & Co. believe they can actually
put a curse on people, and the fact that they have stated they have done
so.. it speaks then, that they are willing to kill those who oppose them.

on that note, on that mentality of killing/harming those who oppose them,
this then becomes a very dangerous cult.

i hope KC followers read this and get it that, these folks have now turned
from just providing false claims to obtain money, to actually trying to
harm if not kill those who oppose them.  this is not a good thing, even if
it is stated in as ridiculous a way as a 'curse', they HAVE now stated their
intentions of harming/killing people who oppose them.

If you have not gotten out of this cult... get out now!
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Superdog on February 07, 2011, 12:13:34 am
And now the latest, a message from Crowther's manager Jennifer Ferraro. She sent out a message which claimed she (or perhaps Crowther) has cursed everyone who criticized Crowther, and that we must all apologize to Crowther, or the "curse" would not be lifted. Seriously...I mean, seriously? :o ::) It was so bizarre to see, it's hard to believe, even for Crowther and co.

Yes, truly more evidence of their belief in peace, love, and light.

It's hardly a credible claim...however if they are engaging in that sort of behavior, let's just say it's another can of worms they're opening that they obviously don't have a clue about.  If they were really going to engage in a dark process of cursing someone, they would probably wanna know that when you reveal who placed the curse then you run the risk of having it returned on you....

But anyway, like I said I don't have any belief in the credibility of that claim (just check the source...this is the camp that makes a living off false claims) and it's definitely a bizarre one.  One that, with some common sense, should even raise the suspicion of even the most ardent follower. 

Hoping you post that one...if for anything the entertainment purpose, but for the purpose of the board just more evidence coming right from the source of the hypocrisy of Crowther and her business associates.

Superdog
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Superdog on February 07, 2011, 12:20:47 am
She started the lecture yesterday with a "negative story" about herself and her assistant being robbed of money, credit cards, driver's license, and her colleague (I think she was some type of organizer) being robbed of her child's private school tuition money that was in her purse. She put a new age spin on the event and waxed philosophical about it, and stated that she would be called out for a police interview. Then she went into her guided meditation and, IMO has a hypnotic/trance like effect, planting seeds of such "love" and "compassion" that when she was allegedly called for the police interview (she claimed to have left her belongings in the kitchen, the event took place in a church) that several people passed the hats for a collection to help. Why would anyone leave that much money for tuition, in a purse, at an event like this? The thing is even I was taken in at first and pitched in, then in hindsight realized, what a con artist! And, she is good at this!

You got that right.  An obvious con.  The timing...everything WREAKS of it.  Not to mention, after expenses, the Santa Fe event is going to bring in over $20,000....(costs of tickets to the event x the number of people - the cost of the venue....all posted on Crowther's own pages as well as Santa Fe venue).  You have every right to ask for your donation back...doubt that will get you anywhwere, but it would be interesting to see what kind of fish story they'd send your way if you did.

Superdog
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: critter - a white non-ndn person on February 07, 2011, 01:24:32 am
And now the latest, a message from Crowther's manager Jennifer Ferraro. She sent out a message which claimed she (or perhaps Crowther) has cursed everyone who criticized Crowther, and that we must all apologize to Crowther, or the "curse" would not be lifted. Seriously...I mean, seriously? :o ::) It was so bizarre to see, it's hard to believe, even for Crowther and co.

Yes, truly more evidence of their belief in peace, love, and light.

It's hardly a credible claim...however if they are engaging in that sort of behavior, let's just say it's another can of worms they're opening that they obviously don't have a clue about.  If they were really going to engage in a dark process of cursing someone, they would probably wanna know that when you reveal who placed the curse then you run the risk of having it returned on you....

But anyway, like I said I don't have any belief in the credibility of that claim (just check the source...this is the camp that makes a living off false claims) and it's definitely a bizarre one.  One that, with some common sense, should even raise the suspicion of even the most ardent follower. 

Hoping you post that one...if for anything the entertainment purpose, but for the purpose of the board just more evidence coming right from the source of the hypocrisy of Crowther and her business associates.

Superdog

although i don't believe they can put a curse on anyone, it's a stupid claim..
the fact remains that it is in their mind to harm people who oppose them.. or
they wouldn't be saying such a thing.

and that to me, is dangerous. next thing they'll have armed guards around
the room while she gives her talks.. of course, they'll say it's for her protection
against various threats she has received.. when it is she who is making violent
threats against others..



Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: mtkoan on February 07, 2011, 04:23:31 am
I took down the mirror.  I thought about it a lot more, and I don't think its my place to interfere with all this.  I personally do think she's told some lies, and I hope the Salish sort out their concerns.

But even so, I don't want to get caught up in accusations, etc.  I read this and took it to my own heart:
http://www.indigenouspeople.net/respect1.htm

I feel real bad for anyone that's by damaged by Kiesha's behavior, but since its not me personally, I'm bowing out.

Good luck ya'll.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Saga on February 07, 2011, 11:43:05 am
Quote
And now the latest, a message from Crowther's manager Jennifer Ferraro. She sent out a message which claimed she (or perhaps Crowther) has cursed everyone who criticized Crowther, and that we must all apologize to Crowther, or the "curse" would not be lifted. Seriously...I mean, seriously? ... It was so bizarre to see, it's hard to believe, even for Crowther and co.

Yes, truly more evidence of their belief in peace, love, and light.

Personal message?

Anyway, if we are going to get in the art of magical thinking, and they have done a curse... well, let's just say that Everything you put out there will get back at you... Of course most of the people who get into her talks are the kind who want to believe in magic, so in that way this is easily put into self fulfilling prophecy, otherwise I can see no evidence that she could work any sort of magic, so wouldn't be too nervous about curses. But indeed, it IS a big sign of people not being anywhere near of "light and love" not to mention peace or morals, to say something like that. And yes, it is bit worrying too. How far will people go in spreading their "truth"...

These people seems to be enjoying any way they can get attention or money... by reading what there's been written in new posts...

Quote
But if anyone wishes there to be more activity against Crowther, we're certainly all for it.....

I have text in my blog with the links in here and some other sources. She seems to be googled quite a lot with the words "fraud", "lies", "fake" etc.

And why I was wondering why this forum is so quiet, there was many quiet days after some of the pages were gone. :) I didn't think that the conversation has died out completely. :)
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: goozih on February 07, 2011, 07:56:49 pm
Can someone post any more information on the latest developments regarding passing the hat,and the curse stuff.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Spandex~Atom on February 08, 2011, 05:11:19 pm
And now the latest, a message from Crowther's manager Jennifer Ferraro. She sent out a message which claimed she (or perhaps Crowther) has cursed everyone who criticized Crowther, and that we must all apologize to Crowther, or the "curse" would not be lifted. Seriously...I mean, seriously? :o ::) It was so bizarre to see, it's hard to believe, even for Crowther and co.

Any chance you could post the part where this was written please, or even the whole letter?

First they accuse us of being practitioners of the Dark Arts, and then they openly threaten the use of the Dark Arts on us? That is incredibly stupid.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: critter - a white non-ndn person on February 08, 2011, 05:14:09 pm
I agree with everyone else who has posted on this.. if you have an email or something that shows this remark, could you post it? 
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Yx Chebel Yax on February 08, 2011, 05:40:31 pm
Hello everybody!

 I have followed you all with interest and respect. And I also have been quite upset by Kiesha  Crowther  and how she uses her role as a self-elected shaman chosen by  the elders (that never heard of her ). Don Alejandro the head of the Mayas has denied knowing anything about her still she refers to him on her page (se down below).  About Kiesha Crowther  I would like to add to the discussion some facts and ideas.  I think we should recall that in 1492 when Christopher Columbus “conquered” the new world that meant to the indigenous peoples a major catastrophe. The estimation is that about 70 million (!) of the indigenous peoples of America (Mayas, Incas, Aztecs etc) were killed or died due to force labor, massacres etc. That was about 90% of the entire population that had disappeared after 150 years of occupation by the Europeans (Salmoral 1992c:378). This meant the destruction of their well functioning societies.  Still injustices  are going on.  And to see representatives like Kiesha Crowther,  a white woman, who for her own personal winning pretends to be a shaman of the Sioux and Salish people  is sad and disrespectful to the native peoples and their cause. Using the the  Native American culture  for her own personal gain. It’s a cultural theft. Her message, studying the content is a mix of new age ideas and I agree with some of them. So I think the package is well done and attracts a variety of people. But it is a fraud. Because she is not an honest woman, she lies about her origin, her election to a shaman, and refers to people who don’t know her. You cannot hide from the truth because eventually at all will come out.
 
My daughter was banned and warned for asking simple questions about KC at TOMC-forum and she is a member here ( her grandfather’s mother was an Inca woman, so she’s got a drop of indigenous blood in her veins, me myself I’m just a regular Swedish woman, with a heart beating for the indigenous peoples).

You cannot question Kiesha and her ideas because then you are not of the heart.  There is no democracy there, no free speech, no freedom of thought and freedom of expression. They are a vital part of international human rights law. If you question (written or orally) the ideas you get excluded, banned- rejected.  That’s not love! That’s not respect. That’s not being understanding and caring! The thing with all these words of love is kind of nice if that reflects upon your character and you are caring and loving in the reality as well. Doing good in your real life towards your brother and sister, respecting others…  But this doesn’t seem to be the case here.  The way… to spirituality, to the faith in God, to respect Mother Earth does not mean you charge people for expensive workshops. She makes spirituality a marketplace to access her knowledge. You have to pay to learn.

Then you  threaten people by talking about the great cleansing and people not from the heart are going to be cleansed away.

I’m sad to see that  http://firstnationsdiscussculturaltheft.blogspot.com/ is down, hope it will reappear.

This you can still read on her page:

Quote
“At age 30 unbeknown to me I received  a phone call from a Native American elder saying that I was being watched since childhood and knew that I would take upon me the name of Little Grandmother. My sacred bundle, my sacred items had already been made for me by different indigenous people around the world and that it was time for me to step into the reason why I came to this planet and they also let me know that they knew I was being taught by the Grandmothers from the other side, they knew exactly what those lessons were and why I was receiving them and so... I did. I said yes to becoming Shaman, and through many prayers and fasting and all of the ritual that goes with that in the most sacred ways. I did become Shaman and shortly after I learned from the other side, from the star beings, from a council, a high council that there were twelve of us. Eleven more just like me who had been prophesied to come for this time. That the twelve of us would be alive on this planet and had received these same exact lessons, these same exact information and teachings and we all share this in common, the twelve of us.”

It's going to be a large cleanse, and I don't wish to say this with any intention of creating fear or anything else but let me explain to you, the listeners who might not understand the way energy works and this is just a universal law. This is how energy is and how it works. The highest energy will always win. Plain and simple. It is the universal law.”

“They're just matter of fact that there are spirals in the sky. The energies are coming through. Large bolts of energy from the universe is being sent to our human planet to help us digest bits of energy to help us get ready for the big bolt of energy which is coming. And while this happens, the energy on the planet will be very high. They are sending help, we are getting help, energy is coming. As that energy rises, those with very low energy and I'm talking of those not just who are in limbo and not those of us who are already coming from a heart place and trying to live from the highest place but those who have low energy, who are doing things that go against human law, who go against the heart law. They will not be able to survive the energy that is coming and this is how the world will be cleansed.”
“It is begun and so like Grandfather Alejandro says; "Do not give away to fear, know that we are all members of the same hand. The palm is our planet and we are brothers and sisters, we are the fingers on that palm." Stay in love. Stay in this beautiful energy, look around us for the first time on our planet, every continent is looking for people and books are coming out about the sacred feminine. And books are coming out on how to enlighten ourselves and how to create help for mother earth. It's all happening”

“Yes actually... I have been told by Spirit that I am a relation of an ancestor named Ninepipes . Apparently the reservation of Ninepipes has their own white buffalo as well as one here in Colorado and I've been blessed to see these and as the prophesy goes...g.”
 
Kiesha, whose maternal family lives on the Flathead Reservation in Montana, was initiated into shamanism at age 30 by a Native American man named Falling Feathers.  She was told that the “elders of the tribe had been watching her” since she was a child and that it was time for her to step into her role as shaman.  Falling Feathers personally guided Kiesha’s initiation and taught her how to conduct ceremony, how to pray in traditional ways with the chanupa, how to pray while in inipi and he conferred upon her the name “Little Grandmother”.

Love and respect to you all
Maria
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Smart Mule on February 08, 2011, 06:23:07 pm
And now the latest, a message from Crowther's manager Jennifer Ferraro. She sent out a message which claimed she (or perhaps Crowther) has cursed everyone who criticized Crowther, and that we must all apologize to Crowther, or the "curse" would not be lifted. Seriously...I mean, seriously? :o ::) It was so bizarre to see, it's hard to believe, even for Crowther and co.

This has been turned over to the police.  The original communication will not be posted publicly as the matter is being investigated by law enforcement.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: critter - a white non-ndn person on February 08, 2011, 06:34:05 pm
And now the latest, a message from Crowther's manager Jennifer Ferraro. She sent out a message which claimed she (or perhaps Crowther) has cursed everyone who criticized Crowther, and that we must all apologize to Crowther, or the "curse" would not be lifted. Seriously...I mean, seriously? :o ::) It was so bizarre to see, it's hard to believe, even for Crowther and co.

This has been turned over to the police.  The original communication will not be posted publicly as the matter is being investigated by law enforcement.

Thanks!  Good to know!  :)
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Spandex~Atom on February 08, 2011, 06:38:41 pm
thanks Sky for the info. It's amazing that people who think they know how energy works don't understand that sooner or later curses just bite the hand that make them, especially when the people they are directed at wish the perp no harm whatsoever, which we don't. You have to be very careful when wishing something on another, even enlightenment, lol. When it comes back around it might not come in the way you like.  It's universal law that what goes around comes around. They don't seem to even know the basics.

ty Maria for the post, where Kiesha says: “It's going to be a large cleanse, and I don't wish to say this with any intention of creating fear or anything else but let me explain to you, the listeners who might not understand the way energy works and this is just a universal law. ......"

It's amazing that these people evoke universal law when they so flamboyantly disregard its workings themselves.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Saga on February 09, 2011, 06:40:45 am
Well, if the people "who have low energy, who are doing things that go against human law, who go against the heart law" will be cleansed away... For me the human law means respecting other people's ways, so think that the "one truth" people who judge all the "outsiders" have it harder...

Part of me still wishes that I'd see some sign of compassion and respect from Kiesha's side too, because this business really makes me worried. More there is this "you have no free will" thing going on, more I feel sick about it and tbh, occasionally I am REALLY worried about the people who are still following her, still like some of those people, altho they have made decision not to like me because of me not agreeing about Kiesha.

Kiesha really knows how to use the guilty trap and the way of the old testament, "if you aren't believing in one TRUTH/God, you will be removed/go to hell/terrible revenge will be upon you". I thought we got over that part 2000 years ago and with this millenium I almost believed that there was some potential to go to more gentle, accepting, respectful ways... But guess we are back in "those not in this faith are filthy and deserve to be punished" -thing as usual.

Maybe I just have too vivid imagination, when taking it so seriously. I am not sure on what scale Kiesha & co. are manipulating people and to what ends, but when watching more things coming in the light every day, I feel sick about it. It is relatively easy to manipulate masses, if you have no moral code (or completely own moral code of "everything to me, no matter who gets hurt"). I have got some more personal info about KC too, which is somewhat irrelevant to her doings as a "shaman", so wont make it public, but stories I heard is just one more example that she herself uses people without much remorse... narcistic child kind of behaviour, love for the one who lifts me up, as long as they wont demand anything or ask questions...

If not letting my imagination to go crazy, I'd say it is all about money and easy life... but since it is done in "spiritual" scene, it is hard not to let doubts about cultish agenda, with some more vicious plans, to surface. So I "hope" that she only uses people as wallet fillers.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Stonehorn on February 09, 2011, 10:31:05 am
Hi Guys,
First post in a long time. There's a spirituality/new age magazine over here in the Netherlands called Happinez. The magazine is basically OK, I have a few issues at home someone gave me. But this month has an article on a woman called Kiesha Crowther, who is obviously selling sweats, crystal ceremonie etc. In the article she claims to have been initiated by Sioux Indians. Of course she doesn't name the elder or the rez. Anyway, does anyone have any more info about her? We should be able to refute the Sioux claim.
I might write the magazine a letter about this article. By the way this is her website:
http://littlegrandmother.net
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: czech on February 09, 2011, 10:50:17 am
Hi, 60 pages of thread on Kiesha Crowther are here
http://www.newagefraud.org/smf/index.php?topic=2871.0

For a summary I recommend Dr. Al Carroll's article:
http://www.indybay.org/newsitems/2011/01/11/18668858.php
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Freija on February 09, 2011, 02:54:46 pm

My daughter was banned and warned for asking simple questions about KC at TOMC-forum and she is a member here ( her grandfather’s mother was an Inca woman, so she’s got a drop of indigenous blood in her veins, me myself I’m just a regular Swedish woman, with a heart beating for the indigenous peoples).

Love and respect to you all
Maria

Saying hello, Maria!
Glad that you chose to post in here although I am very sorry to hear about your daughter´s experience!
I am in Sweden, too. I have been contacted by several people in this country telling the same story.
Hopefully more and more people will open their eyes for what is going on. I wish everyone in the TOMC would start asking legitimate questions and then judge from the openness and willingness to answer these questions. Any good leader would be more or less transparent because he/she would have nothing to hide.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: educatedindian on February 09, 2011, 05:23:23 pm
I took down the mirror....

Good luck ya'll.

I'm going to repost that blog in here, all that's available from google caches. Also merged another thread asking about her.

Each post will be one page from the blog, with all the comments as well.

----------

Monday, January 3, 2011
Who Made Kiesha Crowther a "shaman"?

Kiesha Crowther also known by her followers as "Little Grandmother" has stated all over the internet, the United States, and other countries that she was initiated as a "shaman" for the Sioux and Salish tribes. Although she recently retracted that statement in an attempt to "step away from Native American" traditions or teachings, her video of that statement is still found on youtube.

Kiesha states that she received a phone call from some elders who then told her she was a "fair haired child" from a prophecy and that they had been watching her grow up and had kept a sacred bundle for her that was made hundreds of years ago by the ancestors for her.

The "shaman" that she claims initiated her is named "falling feathers". To date, no one quite knows who this is. There are no photographs of this person, no web site, and according to some who have called the Salish and Kootenai tribal office, they don't know who Kiesha Crowther is or a "falling feathers". I leave this up to the readers to discern who that may be. Kiesha has stated that he made her a "shaman" for the Sioux and Salish tribes, before he died.

Kiesha has three different accounts of who made her a "shaman". The follow are snips from public domains, that Kiesha herself has presented to the public for information on her credentials.

This first one comes from Kiesha's youtube account, where she says she was initiated by a "Sioux man".
http://www.youtube.com/user/littlegrandmother
 

This one comes from a website, where Kiesha describes herself as being initiated as a "shaman" by Sioux and Salish tribal grandmothers. http://www.worldpuja.org/archives/2010-06-29_b/
 

And this one comes from her own website, where she states that she "thinks that falling feathers is most likely from the Flathead reservation" but "is not 100 % certain". Please note that she made this official statement on December 26, 2010, but the content has been changed about falling feathers. The content is changed almost daily, which leads to much confusion. http://littlegrandmother.net/NEWURGENTMESSAGE.aspx
 

You may click on all of the images to enlarge.

Please see "Fair Use" statement in regards to the content on this blog: http://firstnationsdiscussculturaltheft.blogspot.com/2011/01/fair-use-statement.html

Salish and Kootenai Tribal statement in response to Kiesha Crowther "Little Grandmother".
http://firstnationsdiscussculturaltheft.blogspot.com/2011/01/salish-and-kootenai-tribes-response-to.html
 
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7 comments:
 
brighide said...
I've been following this story ever since your video was posted on our comm. I hope you find your answers and that the truth is exposed. Keep doing what you do it's very important.
Monday, January 03, 2011 
 
Stephanie Moore said...
Glad to see you open up a blog. It's too confusing to try and understand what is going on over on you tube. After looking at those screen shots of her accounts I have to wonder if she's having trouble keeping up with the 'truth'. When you make up a story and you keep telling it, it eventually starts to crack. The information becomes inconsistent. It's possible that her handlers have been the ones to make this mistake but Kiesha is ultimately the one in charge and reads those ads too.
Monday, January 03, 2011 
 
George Hayes said...
After viewing Crowther's videos for the past few months I have noticed that her personalities and her voice changes. The progression of this is interesting. From the earliest up to the video filmed labeled 'Zurich' you see and hear it very clearly. Her last video taken shows a young woman who seems as if she is has slipped into a depression. Something is amiss here. I believe she has multiple personalities. In watching the first video and comparing it to the last, you see the gaze of her eyes completely different and her voice is much smaller and less confident. She seems emotionally stressed. I have worked with abuse victims and cult victims and in my opinion I'm looking at a woman who has handlers that are controlling some aspects of her life. The question is why.
Tuesday, January 04, 2011 
 
mueengun59 said...
I am very interested as to how this Kiesha following will end up. I am of Irish/Ojibway heritage. I have spoken with some Elders about this Kiesha and they all have said the same thing. She does not represent the Nishnawbe people, she like many others are just plain frauds.I have noticed that most of her followers are from Europe. I see with every pow wow more and more "non natives" participating in the pow wows, trying to pass themselves off as Native....Why? I am who I am and have never tried to be anything else... but an Irish/Indian who is still learning about both of my cultures..Native and Celtic
Honor & Respect
LoneMueengun
Tuesday, January 04, 2011 
 
Doreen Lynne Bird said...
I can't believe Kiesha Crowther made up this story without understanding how tribes work. If you read her website today --- which has been changed up again she says that she thought she was a shaman because several families of the Salish tribe were referred to her as their shaman. This is one crazy claim. Where and who are these people? This is not how the tribes work. Every one knows who the medicine people are for the tribe but Kiesha claims it's a big secret? Boy is she full of it. She better start pulling out some people to prove her wild claims and soon. My husband was Kootenai and we lived up in Ronan most of our lives until he died. I served as a volunteer in many public duties and knew many of my husband's friends and people. Does Kiesha think the Flathead is one huge continent alone where no one knows one another? This woman is insulting. She's a pathological liar.
Wednesday, January 05, 2011 
 
Anonymous said...
The time is now for each of us to be who we are. Kiesha talks about this in her videos. It's a shame she does not walk her talk.
Thursday, January 06, 2011 
 
Anonymous said...
In this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ElesjTYmlc&feature=related

@6:10 Kiesha states:

"I carry the wisdom for 9 Pipes. He was a wisdom keeper that lives many hundr... a couple of hundred years ago. I am of the lineage of Spotted Owl. I am cikala oochi. I am Little Grandmother. I am great granddaughter of cikala lota and cikala jensen. I am daughter of chinchanchala (?), and father mato..."

She is extremely smug during this entire video series, but this takes the cake. Check out @ 5:00 in this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cB7PmZrViQ8
Wednesday, January 26, 2011
Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: educatedindian on February 09, 2011, 05:26:20 pm
2nd post from the blog.
Comments included.

-----------

Friday, January 7, 2011
Workshops
Kiesha Crowther's statement on "stepping away from Native American framework"  Click on images to enlarge.
 

Salish and Kootenai tribes have asked her to cease and desist. Please read their statement here: Salish and Kootenai Tribes Response
Kiesha in Native costume: ad below for "The Prophets Conference" set to take place this year on Feb 25 - Mar 1.

 
http://www.greatmystery.org/nl/ps2011littleg.html

How much will it cost to see Kiesha and others at this conference?



If this concerns you, please contact the prophets conference below at:


prophets @ greatmystery.org
USA / Canada
Tel: (1) 505 796 4023                   
UK
Tel: (44) 020 8123 9958


If you haven't read Chief Arvol Looking Horse's words on the protection of ceremonies, please go here:
http://firstnationsdiscussculturaltheft.blogspot.com/2011/01/statement-from-arvol-looking-horse.html

The material covered in this blog:
http://firstnationsdiscussculturaltheft.blogspot.com/2011/01/fair-use-statement.html
FAIR USE NOTICE: Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107

 
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15 comments:
 
Doreen Lynne Bird said...
I see she is wearing her fake regalia to attract the new age crowd in so she can sell those tickets. What does a prophets conference have to do with any of this? I have written to this foolish woman a few times and I can see writing letters will do no good with her. Time to go to the next level on this one.
Friday, January 07, 2011 
 
Anonymous said...
They want our ceremonies, clothes, and music but they don't like us if we ask them to leave it alone.
Saturday, January 08, 2011 
 
Anonymous said...
they don't like us at all, that's obvious. What these people want is a way to steal knowledge they never earned and then sell it to the highest bidder or just plain sell it. She never earned this although she claims to have done jsut that "through pain and sacrifice" which makes me laugh really. Native People are th eonly ones who have died to keep our culture alive. This kind of thing happens in movies and in museums leaving people with an image of our tribes that is false to say the very least. It's sickening and people think that just because they were born and raised on this continent it gives them some kind of ownership over both the land and us for being "conquered". I have to disagree. We lost to people who were and are still set on the annhilation of the Tribes here for greed. Pure and simple, greed and then they claim they are "christians" and "right". Well it ain't over yet ... not by a long shot. We're far from being dead and our strength is growing each day.
Saturday, January 08, 2011 
 
toltec said...
Hi brothers I'm part native American myself,
Mohawk Indian and part Apache mothers side, and our tribe has recognized us, and when I went to New York where my tribe comes from I could sense the ancestors in the sky watching me, and I'm interested in learning to speak Mohegan Language.
But for those of us who have forgotten the traditions and ways of the ancestors,
People like Kiesha who are part Indian can help
and the message of grandfather and mother earth is just too important and the world needs to here this now to live in harmony with the earth and Love the trees the animals the earth the sky and all people.

I don't hold any ceremonies or charge for any thing

We Love you all deeply and best wishes.
Sunday, January 09, 2011 
 
Ben Carnes said...
As the point of this blog illustrates, she is not Indian. She has no real knowledge or life ways of being Native, her message is contrived from a conglomeration of different beliefs to create her "message".

Native people have long been sharing this "message" for free, but because we don't dress up and offer ceremonies for the show, the message is ignored. There is no ceremony that is going to provide a quick fix until people begin to learn how to live. You cannot begin to heal the earth, until you heal yourself first! And that means a lot of walking through the dregs of our life and seeing the mess we have made as individuals.
Sunday, January 09, 2011 
 
toltec said...
RE.[Ben Carnes said...

Kiesha said she is not following the spiritual
traditions of any particular tribe and she is starting a new tribe "the tribe of many colours" with new spiritual traditions.
look friends we need to get is message out to a lot of people
Does it matter who she is whether she is Indian or not her message in incredibly positive and If you live in the heart you will have bliss and peace joy and intelligence, Love can save the planet
[Scientific studies proves that Love causes DNA to knit and bond and hate causes DNA to break apart and die. you should do a bit of research on love before you go attacking people]
with out the vibration of love 528hz we could not exist

[RE:Ben Carnes said You cannot begin to heal the earth, until you heal yourself first!]

Love yourself everything around you. give up feeling like a victim and realize we are all one
soul that wears different masks you could resolve the issues in your life.

I send all of you my Love no matter what you believe and wish you all the best I know you are doing what you see as right.
Peace Love and Light
and Only time will tell
Sunday, January 09, 2011 
 
Anonymous said...
@taltec
If there are more people like you walking on this Earth, I could actually start believing again that our Earth has a future…..
Sunday, January 09, 2011 
 
Anonymous said...
toltec even if Kiesha never picks up a pipe again and stays away from native costumes or ceremonies she is still pretending to be indian and she is dressing in fake costumes in these pictures so she can gather up people to pay money to hear her speak. this to my mind is wrong. Kiesha has changed her stories around so many times it is obvious this woman is not honest. if you read through this blog you will see how often she changes stories.
Monday, January 10, 2011 
 
Doreen Lynne Bird said...
The big question is did Kiesha go among the people of the Salish and Kootenai and the Lakotas to introduce herself or ask permission from Arvol if she could carry and use that pipe. Did she stay on those lands and help the people. Has Kiesha ever prayed with them? My answer to this is no she hasn't. But she has prayed with the appropriators and she has prayed with those who paid her money. She still says shes a shaman in those videos over the tribes. She is riding on the names and the regalia and this is called theft.
Monday, January 10, 2011 
 
toltec said...
[RE:Anonymous said...]...she is still pretending to be Indian...]
Hi Friends, All I'm saying is keep and open mind don't harden your hearts. That is the main problem we have in the world today every one is so sure they are RIGHT and we are on the brink of world war (Israel-Iran etc...) because of that. Maybe she is Indian? she says she is part Indian, Donald Trump didn't believe certain people were Indian when they were getting a Casino license and I Quote "I can't see any Indians"

I've read through you concerns and I'm sure Little Grandmother and crew could avoid sacred sites because it upsets the ancestors etc..
or interested parties could work out some kind of deal arrangement live and let live.

Let's all create the new age(Fifth world) with peace Love and understanding
Monday, January 10, 2011 
 
Anonymous said...
@toltec: thank you very much ! I feel the same way. To me this message of love that Kiesha is spreading is the most important and we all should be happy and thankful that it has reached so many people. *
Tuesday, January 11, 2011 
 
Anonymous said...
Toltec and others. The message of love is something we all should share...wouldn't respect also fall under loving one another. I just don't see how lying about your ancestry in order to promote yourself gives any respect to the people she's claimed to represent. I'm proud that you have an interest in your ancestry Toltec, but Kiesha is a white Mormon...her own family has asked her to stop making outrageous claims about her ancestry. She can't help you reconnect because she is not connected herself. Loving yourself means accepting who you are (not where you wish to go in life, but the truths...if you're a man you can't pretend to be a woman...if you're short you can't pretend to be tall). She has absolutely no connection with the communities she has claimed to represent or preside over. She has absolutely no cultural knowledge and often mistakes Lakota (Sioux) and Salish peoples as being one in the same. One is a plains tribe and the other is a western coastal tribe. Their beliefs and ceremonies do not always agree with each other and they are not one in the same. That's the message we as Native Americans wish to get out there. She can't claim representation when she has no personal connection...none. Even if you accept her mother being Salish, Kiesha freely admits that she was not raised within any Native cultural environment. The thing she claims (being shaman over Sioux/Salish tribes) is so OBVIOUSLY a mistake to anyone with even the slightest knowledge of those communites...however it's not a mistake to individuals that stereotype us. Keep in mind positive stereotypes are still stereotypes so the image of the romantic noble savage still does not take into account our humanity and is just as damaging as a negative stereotype. We are not cartoon characters and we still exist as communities and it's a completely misplaced ideal to pretend to expect that an outsider can somehow just decide to "become" a part of a spirituality that is very communal and tribal specific and above all TIED TO THE LAND. When it's taken off the land it loses a lot. Recognized spiritual practitioners among Native communities are recognized for a lifetime (let me reiterate LIFETIME) commitment to the ways of their community. They live there and help their people...there is NO method of recognition or initiation that occurs for people outside the community and certainly none that happen in the short amount of time (less than two years at best, but most likely a few days) that Kiesha claims it took her. Not to mention, when recognition does come it's announced publicly in front of live witnesses. She cannot come forth and give any claim of public recognition by the community because it never happened...NEVER happened, but yet she claims it anyway and packages her we are the world message under this construct. So I would say to you...IF THE MESSAGE IS SO STRONG...WHY THE PACKAGING??? WHY LIE??
Tuesday, January 11, 2011 
 
Toltec said...
Hi friends
I did not know this, sorry
That being sad I HAVE TO ADMIT WHEN I'M WRONG You were right about the fact that she Lied about being Indian. And I do not know why she did that? It's so easy to think that people are just attacking her because they did not like her message of love or some other reason etc..
If she wants to teach people that's OK but she should just say she is a newage/pagan teacher who is pure white with no Indain Blood and let it be as that. I'm sure she would have many followers easy,
But to borrow a Native Tribes name to sell a message is wrong and
I commend you for taking positive action to Right this wrong.

Her message is strong on it's own she does not need to insult Native peoples and burrow you name for her new religion

I have learned something today thank you and my sincereness Heart felt apologies.

Light & Love Peace and Harmony and Freedom
Tuesday, January 11, 2011 
 
Anonymous said...
I am not Native American Indian at all
but even I can see their point, you dont spend thousands of years building up a culture like this only to have it defecated on by some silly expensive(yet cheap)fraud.

My point on the matter is that she lied about her past and her story.
She has promised people ascension a lot of people are saying that will happen but because of her illegitimacy people will now turn away from it.
She has not helped only hindered a possible occurrence.
She has no right to steal from these people and should be held accountable under some kind of intellectual property laws
she only changed her story so others could not get their money back and heavens forbid, lose her comfortable home.

This woman is a liar and this reflects upon the whole message she sent out. All I can attach to it now is how foolish I am for even contemplating it however it has always been my policy not to trust anyone who sells philosophy/religion or spirituality.

Back to the point, If she donated all the money she has ciphered from the people to these tribes i would consider forgiving her or even if she gave it back to those people I would forgive her.
There are many people out there trying to make a profit from peoples trust and that's just plain wrong.

forget the "love" message, justice should prevail and this woman and her administration need to be held accountable and made an example of to all others that are exploiting people in this time of weakness.
I don't feel one shred of empathy for her at all, she would have known it was all a joke, you can even see it in her face when she tells the owl story she stole from a film, she ant even make eye contact.
Friday, January 14, 2011 
 
Anonymous said...
If we possess knowledge that will help mankind,it is our moral duty to share it free of charge.

She is not doing this. No matter who she is stealing her wisdom from, what she is doing is immoral and against mankind.
Friday, January 14, 2011
Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: educatedindian on February 09, 2011, 05:29:42 pm
Post 3 from the blog. There was also one post with my indybay.org article, no need to reproduce that again.

------------

Thursday, January 20, 2011

Kiesha's Lies & Word Games
By:  Ben Carnes

Wednesday, January 19th, 2011


http://www.facebook.com/note.php?note_id=490541436308

It would be comical, if it wasn't for the harm that she was doing to others, the way she has changed her story to keep her followers. This was brought to my attention that Keisha posted the following:

http://www.facebook.com/note.php?note_id=10150091555844001&id=1172013769
"(from) Joanna Wilcox to Keisha Crowther:

just delivering a few messages on behalf of some people who have followed an orchestrated campaign against you who have just discovered who began that campaign, some of he people were leaders posting up links, they have apologised and apparently meant no harm, they were outraged to find out that the salish have never made any statement or video about you..."

and:

(From Keisha)
"I also have received an email from the official tribal leaders stating they have nothing to do with the attacks or those behind it. I now have in my possession a official letter from the council declaring this."

Then her story changes and she admits the truth (sort of):

"I have been very careful not to call myself a medicine woman but a shaman, a worldly term and a word that comes from northern Russia.. "

On another page, Shift of the Ages issued a statement that conflicts with Keisha's website that she works with Don Alejandro.

http://www.facebook.com/shiftoftheages
(posted this morning about 2 AM 1/18)
SOTA does not know and has no affiliation with Keisha Crowther aka "Little Grandmother." Don Alejandro "Wandering Wolf" does not know or "recognize" her as a "Shaman," "Wisdom Keeper," or "Elder" of the Continental Council of Indigenous Elders of the Americas as she claims. Neither Don Alejandro nor the SOTA project authorized use of "Wandering Wolf's" messages or the SOTA video material used in support of the personal opinions she shares in her videos and viral messages. Much of information she is sharing is misleading and "taken" out of context. (emphasis added)

SOTA is not here to push anyone else down. The truth will eventually reach the surface. Our prayers are that Mrs. Crowther learns a valuable lesson and she, as well as her team and followers, benefit as result.

The original statement denouncing Crowther came from the Elders council. not the tribal council. What most people don't understand is that the tribal council and Chief systems of federally recognized tribes act in the capacity of a business entity. The culture and spiritual traditions lay with the people. And even IF she does have an email (interesting she doesn't share it) from the official tribal leaders, it becomes irrelevant, because she contacted the wrong people. This act of misdirecting her followers to think the tribal authorities have cleared up the controversy is false. It is just another lie in a continuing pattern of deception, meaning the message from Joanna Wilcox to Keisha is also a fabrication.

(Which supports a point made in the article I posted in my notes at    http://www.facebook.com/note.php?note_id=487091051308)

Everyone remembers that she initially claimed she was made Shaman over the "Salish and Sioux", but this has changed a few times in the face of this controversy. She has blamed some unknown person she calls Falling Feather" for misleading her in thinking this was her calling. Or was it the 13 grandmothers? Its getting hard to keep up with her stories? But now she is trying to synthesize from the first story. A logical person who had been misled into believing something that wasn't true, wouldn't continue to try and present a falsehood as a fact. If there was a person had no authority to "bestow" such a position, such as "Falling Feathers" then why continue to use it? Because it is lucrative, her next sold-out show she stands to gross $24,375.
   http://firstnationsdiscussculturaltheft.blogspot.com/2011/01/sold-out.html

If she was who she claimed to be, then why isn't she going back to the reservation and speaking to "her" own people? Because we know she would be laughed off the reservation. And if people knew how well she was living while "her" people were freezing on the reservation without propane, I think they would be justified in their moral outrage.    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CWsBP1rOlzY

The emails and phone calls are having its effect, and her ability to keep changing her story gets weaker. So feel free to share this with your friends.
 
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6 comments:
 
Family of Light said...
I hope you will find peace and move past this

LG has and so Have most people

Hate as a word doesn't exist it's root in Egyptian is "hat" so to be in hate is to be stuck in your head playing a broken record over and over again

As opposed to love/heart consciousness which is free of Karma because you actually forgive and move on

You pain is caused by your mind not by reality

Be at peace, time to wake up from the dream
Thursday, January 20, 2011 
 
Anonymous said...
Family of Light:
there is no peace to be found in following something based on lies.
Truth will set you free, my friend.
It has nothing to do with hate.
The heart is useless unless it's working in harmony with the head.
If you were drawn here because of the responses that have been generated by Crowther's dishonest claims re indian ancestry, have the courtesy and the humility to listen to what indians have to tell us.
Thursday, January 20, 2011 
 
Stephanie Moore said...
Dear 'family'

You have some nerve to come here to this blog and accuse these people as being dark or evil when all they are doing is standing up for what belongs to them. Like it or not those traditions are not yours to touch and use as you want. They don't belong to you. You are not mature or intelligent enough to see that they don't and you disrespect the sacred. You people have some nerve to tell the author of this blog which happens to be my best friend that she's a black magician. Yet some of Kiesha's people have written messages to her containing everything from cussing her out, to threatening to burn her house down. When she told them she had a little girl, they still threatened to burn up her child too. Don't dare come here and tell her that she's a dark person when your bunch have become predators of the first nations traditions and culture. You have some nerve whoever you are.
Thursday, January 20, 2011 
 
Ben Carnes said...
To "Family of Light":

I recognize your fear in the things you may have believed coming from Keisha is unsettling to you. Its OK, no one likes being made a fool of, but her foundations are beginning to crumble when exposed to the light of truth.

Don't let that rob you of your search for answers to find balance in your life. It is there, the only teacher you need is life itself and an open mind and heart. I know that the truth being revealed to you one layer at a time has also stripped you of your confidence. Be patient, it will all come out and take this experience as a lesson learned to avoid be misled again.
Friday, January 21, 2011 
 
Anonymous said...
I don't think Keisha anticipated that real Natives would hear of what she was doing and call it into question. She was completely unprepared to be confronted and challenged and is now scrambling to "clarify" her false claims. After all, Natives aren't the ones who are paying to attend her seminars and workshops. She doesn't "live among the people" like you might expect a real shaman to do. She naively doesn't understand she's just one more in a long line of appropriators who are profiting by offering a mish-mash of new-agey "insights". Somehow she feels, by making a claim of recognition by vague Native American spiritual elders, this legitimizes her. It may pass unchallenged by those desperate enough to fill their spiritual void by forking out cash for so-called spiritual learning, but for real indigenous people and others who realize the ethical dilemma of offering spiritual guidance for profit, it smells rotten.
Friday, January 21, 2011 
 
blackwolfcreek said...
@Family -- your last post has been removed --

You are welcome to come here and engage in respectful discussion, however for now any comments where you continue to call NDNS "dark" "black" "evil" "unintelligent" "not real NDNS" will be removed. I don't expect you to agree with the content of this blog, but the name calling is unacceptable.
Friday, January 21, 2011
Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: educatedindian on February 09, 2011, 05:31:38 pm
Post 4 from the blog.

-------------

Thursday, January 20, 2011
"Don Alejandro Does Not Know or Recognize Kiesha Crowther"
The following statement comes from the facebook page, Shift of the Ages


http://www.facebook.com/shiftoftheages?ref=ts


"SOTA does not know and has no affiliation with Kiesha Crowther aka "Little Grandmother". Don Alejandro "Wandering Wolf" does not know or recognize her as a "shaman", "wisdom keeper", or "Elder" of the Continental Council of Indigenous Elders of the Americas as she claims. Neither Don Alejandro nor the SOTA project authorized use of Wandering Wolf's messages or the SOTA video material used in support of personal  opinions she shares in her videos and viral messages. Much of the information she is sharing is misleading and taken out of context.


SOTA is not here to push anyone else down. The truth will eventually reach the surface. Our prayers are that Mrs. Crowther learns a valuable lesson and she, as well as her team and followers benefit as result."


Here is a screen shot of Kiesha's statement on her recognition by Don Alejandro:


Click on image to enlarge

 
This is what her site looks like today, with no mention of Don Alejandro.


http://littlegrandmother.net/NEWURGENTMESSAGE.aspx

 

Material covered in this post: http://firstnationsdiscussculturaltheft.blogspot.com/2011/01/fair-use-statement.html

FAIR USE NOTICE: Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107
 
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11 comments:
 
Doreen Lynne Bird said...
Your goose is cooked. Give it up Crowther. Even Don Alejandro says he doesn't know you even though you emphatically insisted that he did.
Thursday, January 20, 2011 
 
Anonymous said...
It is so sad to see that the malicious pleasure seems to be the only pleasure in this world today. What a wonderful world we are living in… truly.
Thursday, January 20, 2011 
 
Pre-Christian Paganism said...
Your saying no person who is non-native can ever be a shaman
and teach people or ever even dream of it?

First before white people were Christian they were Pagan which means "people who dwell in green spaces" or "have ceremony in green spaces" a bit like a native American.

White brothers and sisters have lost their way Paganism died and is lost to time and the Inquisition. Where Europeans where burned at the stake for being a Pagan. Natives weren't the only ones to died for their traditions
Europeans are coming back to the light and I'm glad Kiesha Crowther is there to help them rediscover their pagan pre-Christian Roots. Kiesha is a shaman and has the right to teach white people or anyone her version of pre-Christian Paganism. As Natives seem not capable or unwilling to do so

We are all from Atlantis and we are all one human race as DNA evidence suggests all humans no matter how they are looking are all like Identical twins


Peace
Thursday, January 20, 2011 
 
oyster said...
@Pre-Christian Paganism
You are making a classic "straw man" argument here. No one is questioning the right of Kiesha or anyone to teach ancient spiritual wisdom, new age practises, 2012 stuff or whatever, including her own style of "shamanism".
But is was Kiesha herself that drew attention to numerous endorsements and credentials from indigenous American traditions. These endorsements have now been disavowed. Why did she do this?
Why didn't she just go her own way and work as a spiritual teacher in her own manner? Why fake the bogus Native endorsements?
It's a puzzling question - and the logical answer is that by affecting indigenous credentials it has given her a ticket to the "top table" of the new age movement - a cynical career move you might say. But is this truly "of the heart"? Surely lying and falsehood is "of the mind" is it not?
Thursday, January 20, 2011 
 
stephanie Moore said...
I derive no pleasure from seeing a woman fall, but she chose this scenario for herself the moment she decided to present herself as a shaman for the Salish and Lakota tribes. She chose this for herself when she began telling malicious lies about who she is and who her family is. She had a choice in teaching her 'love' message without hitching herself to these indians who haven't a clue who she is. She also hitched herself to Don Alejandro also now states he doesn't know who she is.

Now that these lies are coming to the surface and being exposed, there are going to be alot of people who either angry and disappointed with Kiesha, or they will turn their anger on those exposing her.

The problem here was never the Natives, but the people who want to go on living a lie so they can get their 'love' message out of their leader.

I'm certain a lot of people felt disillusioned when James Ray was caught for the liar he was, and saw that he wasn't a man of 'love' when he allowed 3 people to die in his fake sweat lodge.

Did you know that people who are participating in the Prophet's Conference, have to sign a waiver stating that they can't hold them for any accidents, including death? Tell me, light workers, what exactly does one do at a Prophets conference that could possibly cause the risk of death?

I'm all for these sick people, including Kiesha being caught and stopped before someone has to die to find out she's dangerous.
Thursday, January 20, 2011 
 
Teach Love title not needed said...
LG has moved away from Tribal authorization or any authorization:SEE - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5VzIE2pMfPc

LG in Quote from video -

"Our world has been focused on do you have the authority or the prestige or honour of being sought of as a teacher, because some one says yes you are the Great Lilou now you can go and teach the world Love or me or any body else, it does not matter if any body pats you on the back,.....it does not matter if anybody says you are going to be a great teacher. it matters that you were born to this planet, you are a member of planet earth, you are a child of god, you are a child of mother earth, and were here now at the greatest time of earth history, threw the greatest shift in change and with great blessing of being here, we also have a great responsibility, no one needs to pat you on the back and give you a title, no on needs to say you have the authority to teach and spread Love, we each and every single one of us has the authority and the ability to teach love and it is our responsibility," end Quote

So you can see form Her video statement that she really doesn't care what you think she will continue to teach Love and well done LG
Thursday, January 20, 2011 
 
Stephanie Moore said...
Kiesha authorized herself as shaman over two tribes. Without permission she took up smoking a fake pipe, emulating the sacred pipe ceremony, a rite given to the Lakota by White Buffalo Calf woman. Without permission she gave herself a title and an entire background that was fabricated and told everyone that her and her mother are Native. Without permission, she stated as you can see above that Don Alejandro endorsed her when he did not. Kiesha seems to be completely out of touch with reality, and seriously lacks respect for the Elders on this planet. She wants so badly to be someone of importance, she'll lie for it. It's very sad. She's not a stable person at all. She needs psychiatric care. A woman who abandons her children to go live across country in a different home, who does not care to be a mother to them, and instead live out some fantasy life of shaman in the desert, this is not a woman who has her stuff together. This is a woman who is mentally unwell. And as a mother, I cannot imagine ever leaving behind my two children and living across country from them.
It's too late for Kiesha to try and back out of her claims. Everyone knows the truth and there is more about to come out about her.
She should have presented herself as Kiesha Crowther, new age teacher, lightworker from the get go. Not an elder, not a woman from a prophecy that does not exist, or white buffalo reincarnated, or a shaman for two tribes.

She will still make alot of money at her Santa Fe presentations, off the back of the indians she stole from. She still has her videos up claiming to be shaman for these tribes. She still presents herself as a Native in fake regalia for her Prophets conference ad and others that she has out on the internet. I don't think Kiesha has backed away from this. She has zero respect and I have zero respect for her. I hope she wakes up soon. I hope the people who follow her wake up too before someone gets seriously hurt ie: James Ray.
Thursday, January 20, 2011 
 
Anonymous said...
Teach Love, Light worker, all who support kiesha. You all have a sense of entitlement. You think you have a right to take what you want. You are the wasicus of your ancestors. The same sense of entitlement. You are just like the ones who came and took from the indians their lands, their culture, their language, their lives. The difference now is in this day and age you take and you sell it and try to make profits off of it and make up stories. History repeats itself and you never learned anything at all. Kiesha is a liar and if you follow her you are complicit in present day cultural genocide. Karma is going to be a bitch for you.
How do you people live with yourselves is beyond me. I bet none of you have ever set foot on a reservation let alone helped out there. Bet the only indians you know are the fake ones. You people are deluded in your fake love and light crap.
Thursday, January 20, 2011 
 
Anonymous said...
Oh and interestingly enough Jennifer Ferraro Kiesha's assistant claims she's an indian too when she's not. It's amazing. Everyone wants to be an indian but they don't like the indians telling them to stop taking from them. They want to be an indian but they want nothing to do with the real elders or the real indians. They want to be indian but they won't listen to the real ones. They want to be indian but they never respect them. And on and on and on!
Thursday, January 20, 2011 
 
Anonymous said...
thankyou for this blog, thankyou for NAFPS forums. From here in Australia I googled Kiesha after being sent a link to one of her videos. it was quite a performance. In the past month, following your blog and the dedication you have had in protecting and educating about your culture/s has taught me an immense amount about what is and isnt appropriate, as well as being the catalyst for me to find out more about the frequently tragic recent history of Australia's indigenous tribes. I know of numerous new age healers who call on american indian traditions to publicize or justify their practises- its probably even easier to get away with claiming a link to something 'mystical' half a world away- I feel that I see them much more clearly now.
Thursday, January 20, 2011 
 
Family of Light said...
You are stuck in fear consciousness move on to love consciousness

Listen to your selves newagers are going to take away my connection to the pipe, steal my blessing from the ancestors etc..

In Love there is no fear no sides to choose
Become Love and you won't have any fear about anything it's wonderful
You will start to Transcend to a whole new state of being

It is time that you let the egg shell of fear of energy of negative of darkness fall away it has served it's purpose to bring you into your strength and power and in fundamental understanding of the nature of reality you are walking a path of destiny where all time will cease where you will find a blessed moment of bliss where your world is turned over and in opening you throat chakra and your heart and your mind and your crown your power will return and glow and be of brightness and shining in purity and power so that your creative life will replenish the earth and your root will be healed and your roots will grow and nourish with the earth and all that you know will be abundant and flourish

"You never ask a question unless you on some level already know the answer to"

LG is teaching Love/heart consciousness

You are spreading only fear and lack consciousness

As such you are a black magician
a worker of the dark arts As we all are when we spread fear distrust envy hate revenge
Thursday, January 20, 2011
Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: educatedindian on February 09, 2011, 05:33:53 pm
Final post from the blog, number 5.

----------

Monday, January 24, 2011
There are real Natives who oppose Kiesha Crowther
I'm Oglala Lakota, there are many other Natives and non natives who oppose Kiesha as well. I happened to catch this bit of misinformation over on the tribe of many colors forum, and found it very interesting that they are telling their members that the people who oppose Kiesha are not Native. This is not true.


TOMC forum

Click on image to enlarge
 

The moderator, in response to a question about Natives in the United States opposing Kiesha wrote:


"The comments around that are supposedly from Native American sources... are not... they are just people who have not yet found love in their hearts trying to discredit the light".


What the moderator has done here is attempt to discredit all Natives that are opposed to what Kiesha Crowther is doing, by simply saying that there are no real Natives that are concerned. This is not true.


Another comment needing to be addressed:


Forum Admin TOMC comment


First of all, any and all contacts with Kiesha Crowther made by myself and many other Natives and non natives have all used their real names and real emails in order to try and begin a discussion with her about what she is doing with the regalia, feathers, and Sacred Ca'nupa. In response to these letters, Kiesha's assistant Jennifer Ferraro has sent out threatening letters in return, threatening to sue anyone with questions. Kiesha claims that no one wants to speak, only harass her. This is not true. There have been many who have tried to contact her, but she refuses to open a line of communication with anyone, including me. Kiesha's assistant Jennifer Ferraro recently called up and threatened the Salish Elders. This is not the way to respect our Elders.


Second, no one is against Kiesha's basic message of love, or her teachings about loving one another. This is a good message, but that message has been destroyed by her claims of being "shaman" for the Salish and Sioux tribes. This message has been destroyed by her unwillingness to respect the tribes, and Natives who struggle to preserve their scared traditions. No one wants Kiesha to stop talking about her message of love, but there are many who want Kiesha to stop advertising herself as shaman for the two tribes, wearing fake regalia in her ads, dishonest claims to ancestry, including claims to Don Alejandro who recently spoke out about not knowing her or recognizing her as a shaman for his council. Don Alejandro Statement


No one wants anyone to feel isolated or disempowered. No one is under "attack". There are many questions and claims that must be investigated and will continue to be investigated.


If you are interested in reading about how Natives feel about our protection of ceremonies, please start with Chief Arvol Looking Horse and his statement regarding that:


Statement


Kiesha's on-going appropriation of the Salish, Kootenai, and Lakota names in order to sell her workshops is very concerning to Natives, and non natives who wish to help preserve the traditions that are sacred to us. It is very real and important to us that other people all over the world of all backgrounds understand this.


Another member wrote:


Again, this is wrong. This is NOT about skin color. No one is saying they are better than another. It has nothing to do with this at all. It's about protecting our culture and ways. It's about honesty. It's about honoring our true medicine people for the tribes.


In the past six weeks, Kiesha Crowther, the woman who says that she is "shaman" over two tribes, including mine, has referred to the indigenous that oppose her as "dark", "low quality", "not of the light", "not of the heart", "black", "negative", "indian attackers", "not evolved", "not transcending", and "ignorant". Not only does she insult the indigenous, her forum administrator and moderators take part in this as well.


If Ms. Crowther and those who follow her find the Natives to be of "low quality" and  "dark", perhaps, stepping completely away from the Native "framework" as she described, would be the best thing for her to do, including dropping her malicious claims that she is the "shaman for the Salish and Sioux tribes".


Please listen to Francis Auld speak in this video about the language being endangered, and the struggle to hold on to traditions.


Francis Auld


Material in this Post:
http://firstnationsdiscussculturaltheft.blogspot.com/2011/01/fair-use-statement.html
FAIR USE NOTICE: Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107
 
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19 comments:
 
Doreen Lynne Bird said...
Thank you for this post. It has been bothering me how Kiesha has referred to us as low quality or dark/black/negative people. She's only angry because we will not approve of what she is doing. As many said before she wants our ceremony and clothing and all the fame that comes with her schtik, but she does not like ndns at all. She wants it all for herself so she can be 'little grandmother' the famous young fair haired child. I wonder if her followers know that she dyes her hair? Her hair is not a natural blonde. so many of these truths need to be exposed. If her followers still want to listen to her they are welcome to it but she can drop her act of being shaman because we all know now she's not. Also a thank you for opening the comments back up for old women like me who don't want to google account.
Monday, January 24, 2011 
 
Margie Judah said...
Kiesha will be forced to drop these claims soon. I phoned up to the Flathead reserve and they told me they are preparing to release a statement for all to see and there will be no mistaking this time that it is from them.

She has to drop her claims to Don Alejandro now and I see she has removed all traces from him off her pages.

How can these people not see what a liar she is and how can they say that her message is good when underneath that lives a hugely dishonest woman who is about to make $24 thousand off of her workshop. Will she help the people freezing on the reservation this winter? OH I doubt it. She could care less as she lives in that fancy home of hers. When Kiesha's people are challenged to donate to the Pine Ridge Reservation they looked away and didn't get involved. I see on you tube where many asked them to donate. No one responded. These people don't live in their heart they live in their bank accounts. I can't wait until this all folds like a house of cards. She has no one left to claim. She is a white mormon with no native history to her family. Time to come clean and be honest. Kiesha's people need to start being honest too. What happened to living in truth too? Or is the truth too much for them to deal with so they rather live as liars?
Monday, January 24, 2011 
 
blackwolfcreek said...
@Doreen The comments have been opened back up to those who don't want to register. I appreciate your thoughts and your posts here and thank you for returning. All comments which turn to personal attacks on the indigenous will be removed.
Monday, January 24, 2011 
 
Doreen Lynne Bird said...
You read over there in their rainbow cafe threads you can see these people are hypocrites. Their board leaders are the worst. They spend time putting down the ndns and making snide underhanded comments against them. The mentality there is of entitlement and anger. They are like little children tantruming because they want the ndn ceremony and people are telling them NO. They all need to go back to their own culture and roots and learn to appreciate who they were born as. None of them seem to want to be who they are. Kiesha is having a seminar called 'remember who you are' but these people don't want that. They want to be ndns and they are going to be that even if it takes making up a past life or something. Making up a relation that isn't there like Kiesha did.
Blackwolf thank you for standing up against this. What you are doing is good and you have my respect.
Monday, January 24, 2011 
 
Anonymous said...
Hello. Thankyou for your blog. I have friends who have been in a dodgy cult for over 10 years now. Ten years is a long time out of people's lives and it's sad to see people hand their spiritual selves over to someone to exploit. No one had the sort of info about their cult that you're providing here. It may have made a difference early on.
So I'm sure that as well as protecting your own spirituality, you are actually taking steps to protect the spirituality of the people from the TOMC!
I also wanted to say something about my own spirituality- I am of celtic heritage. I began seeing auras, 'reading' energy and recalling past lives quite unbidden. I dont belong to any group and I'm confident that there are thousands, possibly millions of people like me. If a past life is recalled, to me it's silly to imagine that it's an invitation to appropriate someone elses's culture. IME, recollecting soemthing from a past life is a sign that there is something an individual needs to realise about their personal development so that they can move on. So it's not about 'oh, I think I was an indian and I need to dress up like one'. But it may well be 'I had an experience of pain once- I had contact with a healer- I am having a similar experience of pain- I am looking for a healer again...what did I do last time?' and to my way of thinking, the appropriate way of healing a past life experience is to look at the experience and take steps to heal it in the present.
The early 20th century mystic Edgar Cayce, who did a lot of past life readings, eventually stopped because he said that people were attaching themselves via the ego to the 'stories' from his readings, rather than the spirit of what was being presented for healing.
I hope you dont mind me posting all of this! I know it's a little off topic...Kiesha Crowther and her lies are challenging to me, too. I suppose my spirituality is new age, although I've never used that title- I feel that my spirituality is natural and experiential. Crowther is exploiting some aspects of my very real (unbought) spiritual experiences and possibly making it more difficult for others to open up with trust to their own experience of a universal source.
Monday, January 24, 2011 
 
GaiaConsciousness said...
Just because your Indian doesn't mean your right about everything

If "not of the light" is false
Then what are you about???

Because it's looking a bit like Jerusalem(all love) where multiple faiths fight over a Temple or Holy place
Now I'm not saying your wrong or right but
This is the pattern there (in that city) as I'm well your aware.
tit for tat and we are not coming to a conclusion??
Monday, January 24, 2011 
 
Anonymous said...
Would you walk into a Hindu temple and say "I'm sorry but I'm not taking my shoes off or washing my feet and hands because you people are living in the old way. We have a new way so stop doing your traditions that way. If you don't do it my way and accept my new way then you are not living in the heart. You are dark and negative".

You see, every culture on this earth has a right to be respected. I don't think you read the entirety of this blog post. No one has said they are better, or that they are right about everything. Open your ears open your eyes. They are simply saying don't bastardize their traditions. And no, you do not have a right to their ceremonies or traditions no more than I do. I'm white irish. I have no right to use them as I want and neither do you. It's like saying you have a right to walk into that Hindu temple and demand to do their ceremonies your way. It does not work that way.
Monday, January 24, 2011 
 
Doreen Lynne Bird said...
Gaia, what are you talking about 'of the light'? I am an ndn and I don't call how I live as being 'in the light'. That is new age speak. I live by my beliefs which are to be honest, to treat everyone with respect, to love, and protect. I honor mother earth and father sky, all our two leggeds and flying ones. You have a different speech for what you call living in the light. I just live by what is good. You make assumptions that ndns don't live in the light. You have much to learn if you don't understand another's beliefs. It's better to learn than to put that person down and assume they aren't 'in the light'. That's not fair. Kiesha has been teaching her people that anyone who does not believe in what she believes is not a good person and that is where you set up many problems.
Monday, January 24, 2011
Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Seeker 1000 on February 09, 2011, 08:24:09 pm


      Dear NAFPS peeps,

   This is the first time I have posted on this forum. I am concerned about and investigating the validity of Kiesha Crowther " Little Grandmother".

   I attended the workshop in Sante Fe, NM on Feb. 4th - 5th.

   On Saturday Feb. 5th in the morning Keisha announced to all of us that on Friday Feb. 4th her wallet, perscriptions drugs, checkbook and credit cards were stolen.
    She also told us that her employee Debbie had all of her daughters tuition money for college stolen from her purse as well. They were keeping all their wallets , money, Etc. in the back kitchen of the Sante Fe Center for Spiritual Living. Keisha explained to us that she was going to focus through this negative situation and continue the workshop. She told us that the police would come and question her and that we should stay seated and keep up the positve energy until she gets back.
When the police came she left for awhile and hats began to be passed around the room to collect money for Debbie and Kiesha. When Kiesha came back to the room
there was a giant pile of money in a paperbag waiting at her chair. When she saw the money she begin to cry a little and appeared to fight tears for several minutes.
She asked Debbie to come to the stage and she presented the money to Debbie and tearfully and joyfully said," Your daughter can now go to school."

   ? Why did they wait to call police until Saturday morn?
   ? Why did someone keep their school tuition in a purse , in cash, out in the open?


  Btw I did call the Santa Fe police dep. (1-505-428-3710) and they did receive a call Saturday morning and that the case number is 0111001777.
   is Kiesha a victim of theft?
   Or is this an elaborate con job?
    My heart is so heavy because there seemed to be so much love there,

    Please someone shed some light on this for me.

   Seeker

Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: czech on February 09, 2011, 08:30:10 pm
This event has been mentioned by another person who attended, here:
http://www.newagefraud.org/smf/index.php?topic=2871.msg27532#msg27532
Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Spandex~Atom on February 09, 2011, 10:28:27 pm

   is Kiesha a victim of theft?
   Or is this an elaborate con job?


Something doesn't feel right here does it? Anyone would know that the natural reaction from good hearted people to news like that would be to pass around the hat. I don't believe she wouldn't have been aware that would happen. It's not as if she didn't make what would be to many of us a considerable ammount of money from the workshops. She didn't need to mention what was stolen, just that an article of hers was missing, and this would have been explanation enough. Instead you got a sob story.


    My heart is so heavy because there seemed to be so much love there,

    Please someone shed some light on this for me.



Don't feel bad about being taken in by her ability to project emotions well, it's part of her modus-operandi, and anyone can be fooled by people who can do this, they are as good as the actors in films which also reach our hearts. They see it as a job, and it's their income. This doesn't mean that everything they say is false. If it was, there would be no feeling of rightness in their words and nobody would follow them, but what we get is a patched together and skewed version of reality with people who exhibit her type of sociopathic conscience-zero personality. I'm sorry if that sounds harsh, but what she has done as can be found reported here shows her as this type of being.. Please don't have a heavy heart.

Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: goozih on February 10, 2011, 01:47:43 am
Quote
I happened upon a presentation of hers in Santa Fe while looking for another event (not a new age one FYI) and decided to check it out. I left after about 1.5 hours with a rather sick at heart feeling and in my intuitive gut realized she was not for real. Her stories about experiences with animals did not add up and were way too outlandish. She started the lecture yesterday with a "negative story" about herself and her assistant being robbed of money, credit cards, driver's license, and her colleague (I think she was some type of organizer) being robbed of her child's private school tuition money that was in her purse. She put a new age spin on the event and waxed philosophical about it, and stated that she would be called out for a police interview. Then she went into her guided meditation and, IMO has a hypnotic/trance like effect, planting seeds of such "love" and "compassion" that when she was allegedly called for the police interview (she claimed to have left her belongings in the kitchen, the event took place in a church) that several people passed the hats for a collection to help. Why would anyone leave that much money for tuition, in a purse, at an event like this? The thing is even I was taken in at first and pitched in, then in hindsight realized, what a con artist! And, she is good at this!

The whole thing smacked of phoniness - her assistant did not even seem surprised by any of this (the donation). There are no police reports in the paper that reference this. I came home and researched her and came across this forum. Just want to let others know about this scam and, feel sad about the vulnerability and lack of discernment among the participants.

     
Quote
Dear NAFPS peeps,

   This is the first time I have posted on this forum. I am concerned about and investigating the validity of Kiesha Crowther " Little Grandmother".

   I attended the workshop in Sante Fe, NM on Feb. 4th - 5th.

   On Saturday Feb. 5th in the morning Keisha announced to all of us that on Friday Feb. 4th her wallet, perscriptions drugs, checkbook and credit cards were stolen.
    She also told us that her employee Debbie had all of her daughters tuition money for college stolen from her purse as well. They were keeping all their wallets , money, Etc. in the back kitchen of the Sante Fe Center for Spiritual Living. Keisha explained to us that she was going to focus through this negative situation and continue the workshop. She told us that the police would come and question her and that we should stay seated and keep up the positve energy until she gets back.
When the police came she left for awhile and hats began to be passed around the room to collect money for Debbie and Kiesha. When Kiesha came back to the room
there was a giant pile of money in a paperbag waiting at her chair. When she saw the money she begin to cry a little and appeared to fight tears for several minutes.
She asked Debbie to come to the stage and she presented the money to Debbie and tearfully and joyfully said," Your daughter can now go to school."

   ? Why did they wait to call police until Saturday morn?
   ? Why did someone keep their school tuition in a purse , in cash, out in the open?


  Btw I did call the Santa Fe police dep. (1-505-428-3710) and they did receive a call Saturday morning and that the case number is 0111001777.
   is Kiesha a victim of theft?
   Or is this an elaborate con job?
    My heart is so heavy because there seemed to be so much love there,

    Please someone shed some light on this for me.

   Seeker

These could be legitimate posts but I would get more info before getting excited about them.
Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: nemesis on February 10, 2011, 07:41:33 am


These could be legitimate posts but I would get more info before getting excited about them.

I am not sure that I understand what you mean.

To me they both appear credible and also to be indicative of Kiesha's blatant greed and BS.

Am I missing something?
Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: goozih on February 10, 2011, 08:21:14 am
I would believe Kiesha to be that greedy, and I would also expect her to be sneaky as well.I would get evidence before I run with this info.Just sayin....
Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Saga on February 10, 2011, 08:44:56 am
I think I am missing something too... I think most of us think that she would make up a story like this... So are you referring into the police part of the story, when you say not getting too excited about it Googiz? Because at least I think that the story about asking money is completely true, what ever the part with the police is... I think that if there is a report, it is for backing up the story... Or maybe she had something stolen, but it still doesn't explain why to ask money when she gets 20 000 from the workshop... who knows.

Btw, if none has mentioned this before, she is now doing webcasts too to "teach"... They are free, but... the address in the webcast site says more or less again that she is THE ancient wisdom keeper. Oh, and of course the text on webcast site says that she was initiated by native american elder...

Quote
Saturday, February 19th at 10am, MST - Mountain Standard Time
Join Little Grandmother for a 20 minute Live Streaming Broadcast—the very first in a new series of live broadcasts to the global tribe of many colors which will be monthly and ongoing. This is a FREE event, open to all.

We hope that people over the world will tune in and come together as one heart for the purpose of healing ourselves and our precious Mother Earth. Little Grandmother will be sharing some simple, powerful techniques she has been taught by Spirit to anchor ourselves to sacred earth energy and raise our vibration, helping to heal the planet and restore and replenish ourselves at this time. Together we will offer our prayers and intentions for healing and help to raise the love vibration on the planet!

To take part in this event, please go to: www.ancientwisdomkeeper.com/livestream
(quote from http://littlegrandmother.net/WEBCASTS.aspx)

Quote
"Kiesha Crowther, also known as "Little Grandmother," was initiated as shaman at age 30 by a Native American elder and was told that her task was to be shaman and Wisdom Keeper of the “tribe of many colors.” "
...
"Since being initiated on her path as shaman and Wisdom Keeper, Kiesha has begun to share teachings and to conduct ceremonies and healings for individuals and Mother Earth. She feels her  responsibility to be carrying and communicating earth wisdom and the ancient knowledge for our current age. Toward this end, she has released videos of her talks, which are freely available on YouTube and which have been viewed by hundreds of thousands of people so far all over the globe."

(quotes from http://www.ancientwisdomkeeper.com/livestream)

But then, there's this little note written in small font in the bottom of the ancientwisdomkeeper page:
"Registration fees are non-refundable. If you are unable to attend the seminar, then the registration fee can be applied to another seminar or class at a later date. We reserve the right to change or cancel a seminar due to low attendance or unforeseen circumstances. In the event that the seminar is canceled, the registrant will be allowed to transfer their tuition to another scheduled seminar."

So... the webcasts are free... but you need to pay to register so you can see them... so they are not actually free and you wont get your money back in any circumstances, but are able to use them to something else, bit like in those cheap stores where you can change the broken product but they keep the money? :p
Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Seeker 1000 on February 10, 2011, 04:29:40 pm


      Hello all,

   I have had a a few good nights sleep since I attended the Kiesh workshop last weekend. I am absolutley convinced she is a fraud and a con artist.
   
   By the way at the workshop she never asked for money, BUT she didnt call the police until mid saturday morning so that her workshop
would be interupted and she could play this drama out in front of all of us. Her items where supposedly stolen Friday afternoon, so why wait to call the police until
mid saturday morning. Also she told ridiculously sentimental and impossible stories about her pets that made everyone cry and resulted in over an hour of sentimental pet stories. The workshop was from 10 - 4 friday and saturday. With all the drama and all the bathroom breaks and then all the invitations from other peoples stories we actually only had about 3 - 4 hours of keisha talking.

 Keish tells everyone to not focus on keish and make het the center , but when she preformed sacred ceremoney there was an outer circle, and inner circle , and right in the center was keisha. She was surrounded by clear quartz crystal and she was deep in meditation.

 Personally this is a huge growing experience for me. I am going to go back to my roots and i will grow from all this. I have been telling my family that I consider Keisha to be a" New Age Benny Hinn"....I quoted myself...lol..well thank for all the feedback guys. I could say so much more and if anyone has questions for me please ask.

peace,

Seeker 1000
Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: educatedindian on February 10, 2011, 05:10:54 pm
There is one other thing that does not add up about Crowther's story. Her children look to be about 8-10 years old. There are posted photos of them on her website.

(No doubt done to answer concerns that she has neglected or abandoned them to pursue her "calling." Crowther is separated from her husband. He has custody of their kids and lives in another city with them, about half a day's drive away. The family source I spoke to said she sees them infrequently, and all of her family miss her and don't understand or agree with this "calling.")

So why beg for donations for supposed stolen college funds? She (and her husband) have a decade or more to get the money.

Why would anyone carry around college funds for a decade from now?

Why not simply pay for college funds with the enormous amounts she is already making? One ceremony selling workshop could pay for someone's college at a public school, with plenty left over.

And if there's this supposed concern she won't have funds for her kids' colleges, perhaps she should consider living modestly instead of in a 350,000 dollar home.

Even if the entire story is not a lie or scam, it certainly is incredibly careless and sloppy use of funds. How much else has disappeared because of incompetence? Keep in mind that Crowther has already gone bankrupt before.

Even a rookie traveler knows better than to carry wads of cash. How stupid is it to not carry traveler's checks or use a wire transfer?
Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Freija on February 10, 2011, 05:17:41 pm
If I understand it right it was Debbie´s daughter´s collegefund that went missing.
Why she was walking around with all that money, I don´t know.  ???
Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Seeker 1000 on February 10, 2011, 05:21:07 pm

     hey there,


    The cash may have been for college or a private school. I dont remember, but the cash belonged to Debbie a personal assistant to Keisha. The money that was taken that seemed to disturb Keisha the most was the money out of Debbies purse for her daughters school, whatever school that may be.
    Keishas workshop brought in $30,000. Her camraman Bob Seeton works for free. She has two assistants Debbie and another women, and her main helper is her lover and companion Jennifer. I figured after all expenses and after the mound of cash that was gathered for her she put in her pocket between $40,000-$50,000.
Pretty nice wages for 3 hours of talking....i need to get a new job....lol


  peace,

  seeker 1000
Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Seeker 1000 on February 10, 2011, 05:53:23 pm

                                                 Facts(?) I learned at the Keisha Crowther " Little Grandmother " workshop in Sante Fe, last weekend


       1) Keisha Crowther is a lesbian and has a lover Jennifer    ( Hey, love who you want, no biggy to me)
       2) Rolls her own ciggerettes and takes a lot of smoke breaks   ( Hey, I enjoy a good smoke now and again, no big deal)
       3) Talks to animals                                       ( Umm, ok feep going)
       4) Has direct communication to the metaphysical world and has special knowledge from Great Spirit about hidden mysteries    ( ok, continue)
       5) Keisha vibrates at a higher frequency because she lives from the heart and loves everyone     (  thats groovy )
       6) According to Keisha mother Earth will destroy all those living from ego or the mind or fear which is a lower frequency  ( Sucks for them, so glad I have Keisha)
       7) Keisha was beaten and abused daily on the the cruelest levels by an uncle   ( no comment, abuse sucks, but is this a lie?)
       8) Kieshas sister had heart problems and her mom was always focused on her sister   ( no comment)
       9) Kiesha reads crop circles             ( ok?)
     10) Kiesha talks to star beings and knows where they live  ( ok? )
             The list could go on.....I am blown away that I actually thought she was the real deal....I have so much to learn....

     Peace,

  Seeker 1000           
Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: czech on February 10, 2011, 07:19:59 pm

I am blown away that I actually thought she was the real deal....I have so much to learn....
         

Do not worry, Seeker. There is more of us who feel embarrassed now that we let ourselves get carried away by those touching stories. It has been an invaluable learning experience for me. Finding this forum has changed my outlook on many, many things.
Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Saga on February 10, 2011, 07:35:51 pm
Isn't number 6 a perfect example of fear-mongering and fundamentalistic christian style of preaching of doom for those who don't follow the one truth?

number 4... We all have way to link into spirit and learn all the mysteries, she is not special in any way other than speaking about it out loud and thinking that her message is for all and not just for her personal growth and use like most of the spirit messages tend to be...

number 7... she has talked about hard times in childhood briefly earlier (and in one video she talks about living in the woods from 8-12 years old, because she had to run away from home and animals fed her while she lived there - a story, which is hard to believe since she has graduated from schools and living in the woods on those years most important for learning.... well you know, if being able to think even a minute that THIS story could be true... I don't think she would have any sort of degrees if she would have been living in the woods in 4 of the most important years. Of course she might have spent lots of time there tho. :)), but I am not sure into what extent these stories are true... to tell something like that in large public gathering that is not a therapy session usually means that you are giving image of being a victim and waiting for a special treatment and empathy because of it... yes, it sucks to have hard times of any kind as a kid, but it shouldn't be used like that and most of the people who have gone through rough periods, don't tell it to large groups of people in public... (unless they either like drama or are so lost and tied in their past that they bring it up in every occasion and should work for the issue OR use the story for other means). If however any of the stories are true regarding this, I am very sorry for her going through the rough times, what ever I might think about her actions....

Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: critter - a white non-ndn person on February 10, 2011, 07:45:38 pm
well, i'm not native, and my beliefs are not native.

i have my own beliefs.. and my beliefs do not include an intentionally
harmful mother that kills. 

i personally stay away from people who think Earth is a conscious murderer
as i find it offensive. 

saga, i agree that that is from the christian mindset due to a god that seeks
wrath on it's own creation because it isn't what he wanted.
Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Saga on February 10, 2011, 08:07:09 pm
I have my own beliefs too, so I was mostly commenting from that basis, not that I know that much about real native beliefs anyway. :) In any case there's no discriminating mothers, fathers or spirits in my beliefs either. But being raised in partly religious environment, it hits the nerve to use christian style of guilt traps and even, very subtle way, the religious concept of it with other terms tho, and it hits as fear-mongering to me when someone says - if you don't do it like this, you are dead. Abusive relationship in the action. :)
Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Freija on February 10, 2011, 08:28:42 pm
Kiesha´s version of the story: a NA meeting was held in the building and during a break some of the participants stole their money and credit cards. And a whole year´s tuition fees for Debbie´s daughter. By the time they noticed they had been robbed (later on that day), the thieves had been on a shopping spree in 54 different shops (!!)

It´s on TOMC FB-page.

IF this is all a lie - and I am saying IF - and she blames NA people, I am sick to my stomach.
(I guess she is talking about Narcotics Anonymous - and not Native Americans? )
Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: czech on February 10, 2011, 08:30:18 pm

IF this is all a lie - and I am saying IF - and she blames NA people, I am sick to my stomach.


Me too.  >:(
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: critter - a white non-ndn person on February 10, 2011, 08:55:21 pm
Well, should be able to get some info from the police report number 0111001777.  If she did conjure the whole
thing up, then she could be arrested for filing a false claim with the police.

It's highly possible they did experience a theft, however, it still makes a person wonder why someone would
have a years worth of tuition money in their purse.. in cash.

I would have no doubt however, that even if it were a real theft, that KC wouldn't use it to her
advantage to be once again a victim and have people feeling sorry for her and pass the hat.. it's
simply manipulation.
Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Freija on February 10, 2011, 09:43:48 pm
This is SO clever!  ;D
Now the messages cost money...
http://www.livingsuccessfully.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=3&products_id=532

First you tell people about the cleansing, separating the "light ones" and the "dark ones". Youtubes messages everywhere. For free.
Then, when people are hooked on the message, fearing to be the ones left out - you start charging money. The followers are now tied to the love-group and the only way to make sure that you are not left behind in 2012, you have to buy the information.

This is how the DVD is promoted:
"Most important is the call to stand together as the year brings us things we might wish we did not have to see."

More fear!!
Yup, really clever and really well planned!  
Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: czech on February 10, 2011, 09:48:40 pm

Now the messages cost money...
http://www.livingsuccessfully.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=3&products_id=532


Good. That means people will stop spamming my mailbox with her videos  ;)
Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Seeker 1000 on February 10, 2011, 10:04:38 pm


     
        Wow,

   This is the closest I have ever been to this level of deception. I keep replaying Kiesha standing up with the money that was collected for Debbie and she said,
" Now your daughter can go to school!" as she handed the money to Debbie. Debbie looked stunned. Not emotional, but something else. It was like a highschool
play and everyone knew their parts. Yes they where laughing all the way to the bank. And I even gave them a little of my hard earned money....omg!!!

   Well I appreciate what you guys do. I am being gentle with my friends that can't yet wrap their mind around what Kiesha Crowther is doing.
    I truly hope that there is a reckoning soon.

    Thks for all the love frequency guys.....lmao

  Peace,

  Seeker 1000
Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: secondsight on February 11, 2011, 01:37:24 am
Hello,

I'm a white lady in Santa Fe..I have hosted events in the Santa Fe CSL and have been watching the Keisha train wreck here in town and online.

The room where KC's event was held is in the front of the building. In the back of the building, there is a kitchen and smaller room for classes and AA or NA meetings.

You would have to walk to the back of the building to reach the kitchen where the 'theft' happened, so I cannot imagine leaving a purse or valuables way in the back of the building when the meeting is in the front!

Also, the church administration staff ALWAYS advises leaving personal items and valuables in the locked office during events. (The host is given keys to open and close up before and after an event.) That is what we do when we use the building. There are certain instructions given when you rent the room.

The other amazing thing is--- she announced the theft to her audience!! If this happened to me, my audience would have never known it. Any worthwhile teacher would take care of the issue privately minus the sad story, drama and interruption to the workshop.


Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: secondsight on February 11, 2011, 01:46:36 am
Hi!

NA is: Narcotics Anonymous ( used to work in recovery unit when I was a nurse.)

Like AA, only narcotics instead of alcohol. :) These groups often meet in local churches or community rooms.

secondsight
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: nemesis on February 11, 2011, 08:22:20 am
Well, should be able to get some info from the police report number 0111001777.  If she did conjure the whole
thing up, then she could be arrested for filing a false claim with the police.

That report number looks rather dodgy to me

It may be just a coincidence and it may be a real report number but 777 is regarded as a magickal number and  the number 0111001777 caught my attention for this reason.

Are we absolutely sure that this is a real report number?

Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Saga on February 11, 2011, 08:55:43 am
http://vimeo.com/19774519

There's the new video, or probably the free portion of the dvd would describe it better. "Produced by Living Successfully"... well, I am sure that the speaker and her partner at least are "living successfully" now. ;)

I have to say that some of the things still sound cute even for me, altho I am still disagreeing with half or more and how it is delivered. Atleast she left the elders out... well, I think so, but missed some of the talk. She did mention the rainbow prophecy (many tribes have) tho and that we are those people, as always.

Oh, for some reason it strikes me that she is wearing off-white. Almost all cult messages I've seen, include the "leader" wearing white next to their face... But anyway, white is nice "pure" color to use when talking about spirituality. :)

Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Seeker 1000 on February 11, 2011, 03:27:07 pm


      Thks for showing me that video link......i hope others can realize what a fraud she is....
 

      BTW that case number is correct.....i was the one who called the Sante Fe police and got it...i talked to the actual disbatcher that took the call....I left the phone number for the sante fe police on my previous post...please call and verify what I am saying.....


   Peace,


    Seeker 1000
Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Smart Mule on February 11, 2011, 09:14:06 pm
I called Santa Fe PD to verify the police report.  The correct number to call is (505)955-5751.  The woman I spoke with verified that a report was filed but it has not yet been entered into the system.  I was told that if I call back on Monday then they would get a copy of the report ready to send out to me.
Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: czech on February 11, 2011, 09:22:24 pm
Thank you, sky. I am very curious.
Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: goozih on February 12, 2011, 08:50:24 am
Just watched the latest video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ecPI3CpsKHo&feature=player_embedded (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ecPI3CpsKHo&feature=player_embedded)
She doesn't try to sound Native anymore, she looks stressed out, and if you choose to be "negative" : your car will be flipped over 13:16 of video,she also is reading from a script.oops I spoke too soon http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TCN69KdF7EE&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TCN69KdF7EE&feature=related)
Anyway I think the message for 2011 is don't listen to those bad people at NAFPS the same as 2010 I guess.  ;)
Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: nemesis on February 12, 2011, 10:41:18 am
goozih

The video I get from both your links is this one

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TCN69KdF7EE&feature=related

Which is an urgent message from Kiesha telling her followers to wear a piece of crystal on a simple leather twine.

This is going to be a bit of a tangent, but please bear with me.

I watched this video a couple of times and it got me thinking about a pseudo-tantric/taoist organisation that advocates that women follow the path of the "white tigress" which basically means that they advise that women effectively steal male sexual energy (a form of sexual vampirism) by performing unprotected fellatio with many different men and swallowing.

This organisation actually manufactures and sells chokers for "white tigresses" to wear.

You can see the product here

http://www.taotraditions.com/TigressSection/ProductsFolder/Choker.html

It occurs to me that apart from being a revenue stream for them ($49.99 per cheap item) women who purchase and wear this item can be immediately identified as women who buy into this particular practice.  I suppose I am  thinking that the women can be easily taken advantage of if they identify themselves in this way.

Back to Kiehsa and her crystals...

Anyone attending a Kiesha event and doing as she advises and wearing a crystal in the way she says is immediately identifiable to Kiesha and her handlers as a person who is a truly devoted follower and who is thus an easy touch for donations, voluntary work or anything else they might have in mind.

Maybe I'm reading too much into the crystal necklace things but I just wanted to share my thoughts re this.





Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: goozih on February 12, 2011, 11:17:08 am
I fixed my post ,put the wrong link on first video. Thanks! And yes that makes sense.
Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: nemesis on February 12, 2011, 11:39:08 am
wow!

no time to watch the whole video but from the 1st few minutes she does look stressed, especially when you can see her hands, she is actually wringing her hands as she speaks.  He accent has completely changed.  Her hair looks a bit darker also.

Thanks for sharing goozih :)
Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Saga on February 12, 2011, 02:00:05 pm
Hehe, same vid I posted on top of the page, I think. Didn't watch it tho, only that she wears the same clothes. :)

And yes, if some group has some specific symbol they wear, it is easy to recognize them from larger groups for what ever purpose. Bit like the nazi bands etc. :) Altho, with crystals, most of the "new agers" have some sort of crystal, majority of them probably have clear quartzes, whether they follow KC or not, since it is described in gem books as the most effective over all healing and what ever stone.
Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Yx Chebel Yax on February 12, 2011, 06:42:03 pm
Hi there again and thank you Freija for your greetings. Just saw the video mentioned above
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ecPI3CpsKHo&feature=player_embedded.
Reacted toward:
Quote
“You don’t have to go out there and protest…… to really change this planet”
“It was prophesized by many tribes that a group of people called the Rainbow Children would come..”
“That is us…”
“We are the Tribe of many Colors”.
“We are the ones that will change this planet through our hearts…”

So Kiesha Crowther is the self-elected leader and she will lead us to a new better world… so we’ve better pay attention…
What about all the protesters in Egypt should they have stayed at home?  The people of Egypt got united toward an unwanted president and he’s gone now. Hopefully Egypt now will turn toward democracy.

I’ve been working with refugees for many years, coming from many parts of the world and many of them tell me how bravely they’ve been fighting for freedom and democracy. And I tell you that they were wonderful, warm people that had gone through terrible hardships but still if I went to their homes they gave me the very  best they could from what they had.  I learnt a good lesson there to be humble at heart and to see that we are all brothers and sister and so alike.

A very dangerous recommendation to pacify people not to combat injustices and react. You can still be loving with a big heart there is no contradiction. To criticize is to be negative and not good. But the thing is that Kiesha herself is criticizing a lot of things herself.

Well just a few thoughts. The very best to you all people and my respect.  :)
 
Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Freija on February 12, 2011, 08:19:02 pm
So Kiesha Crowther is the self-elected leader and she will lead us to a new better world… so we’ve better pay attention…
What about all the protesters in Egypt should they have stayed at home?  The people of Egypt got united toward an unwanted president and he’s gone now. Hopefully Egypt now will turn toward democracy.

 ;D I had exactly the same thought! In Kiesha´s FB-group, people have constantly cheered the Egypts on, sending them love and light in their struggle. It must be very disappointing for Kiesha that her followers are going against what she says.

It´s a scary thought that she encourages people not to protest against injustice, crimes, abuse etc. If people stop standing up for a better world, we´ll end up in an inferno...!
Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: czech on February 12, 2011, 08:21:25 pm

It must be very disappointing for Kiesha that her followers are going against what she says.


Hopefully it is also very disappointing for her followers that Kiesha advises against their common sense!
Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: heartoftruthandlight on February 12, 2011, 09:00:45 pm
Can I get clarification on something - a page or two back there was a post made by whom I thought was Robert McDonald stating there would be a cskt website release as to the non association to LG.

Here is comment communication from a video:
  @mauilandwalker Guess what? I spoke with him this afternoon and he says they will NOT be releasing a statement against Kiesha. He said that they do not know her and that they do not know a falling feathers. That is it. He said that they cannot say she is a fake. There will be no statement from the Salish released online. NAFPS can take down their fake Salish statement now. That one is not real. Let's not forget how Al Carroll used to call Don Alejandro a FAKE on his frauds board. I won't.

Thi was a response to the following:
mauilandwalker
@JaneEyre1920 I still have the voicemail Robert left me confirming what will soon be on the Flathead Rez website. Keep watching. Shift of the Ages FB page as that is Don Alejandro's disassociation of Kiesha. May you see the truth. Travel in light love and purpose.

JaneEyre1920
@mauilandwalker There is nothing on the CSKT website, Don Alejandro's page, or any other tribe's page denouncing Kiesha. You are all going on hearsay. If the tribes were that outraged about her one would think they would put something up about her. Look at Al Carrolls article on indbay tribe of many dollars. In the comments section a Kootenai woman says she doesn't care what Kiesha does. Apparently they don't feel threatened by Kiesha and do not object to her.
4 days ago

my question- who's telling the truth?

Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: czech on February 12, 2011, 09:11:03 pm
This statement can still be found on the Facebook page of the Shift of the Ages:

Shift of the Ages:

"We are increasingly asked about the person you mention Sarah Johns and would like to make a statement in response to your posting.

SOTA does not know and has no affiliation with Keisha Crowther aka "Little Grandmother." Don Alejandro "Wandering Wolf" does not know or "recognize" her as a "Shaman," "Wisdom Keeper," or "Elder" of the Continental Council of Indigenous Elders of the Americas as she claims. Neither Don Alejandro nor the SOTA project authorized use of "Wandering Wolf's" messages or the SOTA video material used in support of the personal opinions she shares in her videos and viral messages. Much of information she is sharing is misleading and "taken" out of context.

SOTA is not here to push anyone else down. The truth will eventually reach the surface. Our prayers are that Mrs. Crowther learns a valuable lesson and she, as well as her team and followers, benefit as result."



The statement by Robert McDonald I quoted some pages back was copied from the discussion below Al Carroll's article and it was posted there by a person who communicated with him, not directly by him.
Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Smart Mule on February 12, 2011, 11:19:13 pm
I would suggest that anyone who has doubts about a statement going up on the CSKT site contact Rob directly. the last time I spoke to him he told me there would be one going up.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Defend the Sacred on February 12, 2011, 11:38:33 pm
Heartoftruthandlight,

There has been a lot of crazy stuff posted on youtube comments, and wild claims by anonymous posters (and their sockpuppets) on various sites. I'd just encourage you to take the time to get to know people, and to not trust anyone's claims about themselves on sites like that unless and until you get to know them in real life; and that includes getting to know other members of their communities that can vouch for them. As far as what's available on this site, I know there's a lot to read here, but I think anyone just coming into this needs to take the time and read through it :)
Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Saga on February 14, 2011, 08:20:09 am
SOTA statement is still in Shift of the Ages facebook page, under the comment that had something to do with Kiesha and the Salish statement on January 17th. There are no more official statement in there than that one comment under someone's post, but that should be enough to say that there is a comment, since  it is written by them.

Anyway, that wasn't what I came here to write. I heard more rumors (from people who are trustworthy to know something about the subject). About people, who could have used their hard saved money to something else than supporting her "mission" (2000 dollars this time) in the beginning when she was so "broke". And then Kiesha did went to Sweden and Denmark to work, but also took week off and went to private trip to England with Jennifer... i wonder how broke you'll have to be to fly all over the world and have extra travel money for vacations as well....

In any case, especially with youtube comments, it is better not to take just about EVERYTHING as a truth, even tho there might be some of it in those too.
Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Saga on February 14, 2011, 08:54:23 pm
Ok, more information. Kiesha is looking for lawyers amongst tribers to sue opposers for libel or something, don't know the exact words, since she is not my friend but she has posted something on her page about it.

I do hope that she acknowledges that she needs to prove all about her own part in court then too to be sure that there is libel... since most opposers have been respectful and speaking the truth, if not counting some more imaginative writings when really pissed off or hurt about her part in things.
Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother" :: NDN Video on YouTube
Post by: AlaskaGrl on February 14, 2011, 10:40:43 pm
Passing it around.. keep it going....


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=albQnbN4JjQ
((this is the corrected link)) 

"""This video documents the controversy that is going on in the Native American community over Kiesha Crowther's false statement that she is the shaman of the "Sioux and Salish tribe" and the money she has been making from this false claim.  I am mirroring this video so that non-Indian people can have some understanding as to the pain that pretenders like Kiesha Crowther cause native people.  I want non-Indians to understand that only way to stop the exploitation of indigenous peoples' spirituality is for people to STOP paying ANY money for it. Authentic spiritual leaders would never charge money. Ceremonies are not open to anyone who can pay a price - our spirituality is much too sacred for that.

If you have respect and compassion for the indigenous peoples of this land, then allow us to be the guardians of the spirituality that our ancestors developed. Do not support Kiesha Crowther and others like her who exploit our spiritual practices for profit. Native people and our true friends who want to take action, can do several things:

Sign the petition:
http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/littlegrandmother/         ((link fixed))

Join the Facebook group: League of Pissed off NDNZ for updates
http://www.facebook.com/home.php?sk=group_141321945930866

or the new online forum
NDN 360

http://www.network54.com/Forum/673795

Native American activists and our friends are encouraged to mirror this video.

Also post this video to forums, blogs and facebook pages and speak out whenever someone exploits Native spiritual practices for money.

One source for information on conditions on the Pine Ridge reservation is here:


http://tinyurl.com/ypmx52        

FAIR USE STATEMENT
This video may contain copyrighted material the use of which has not always been specifically authorized by the copyright owner. We are making such material available in an effort to advance understanding of environmental, political, human rights, economic, democracy, scientific, and social justice issues, etc. we believe this constitutes a 'fair use' of any such copyrighted material as provided for in section 107 of the US Copyright Law.  In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107, the material on this site is distributed without profit to those who have expressed a prior interest in receiving the included information for research and educational purposes. For more information go to: http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/...    If you wish to use copyrighted material from this video for purposes of your own that go beyond 'fair use', you must obtain permission from the copyright owner """


Linda.

))did some edits to correct broken links((
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: critter - a white non-ndn person on February 15, 2011, 12:27:45 am
the petition doesn't come up?

Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: AlaskaGrl on February 15, 2011, 01:13:07 am
the petition doesn't come up?

Sorry about that Critter...  I fixed it.

Linda
Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: ska on February 15, 2011, 04:34:11 am
Dear spiral walk,

apologies for speaking out of turn.  I am not Lakota.  I am not Native to this continent.

I admire the efforts of the people who made this video you posted:

(edited to remove url to original video)

but in the film, someone filmed some men going into a lodge.  that was not cool.  that should be taken out of the video.  should never be recorded.

best, ska
Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Smart Mule on February 15, 2011, 05:34:30 am
Yipes. I haven't watched the video but I agree with Ska that portion needs to be removed. It's not appropriate.
Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: goozih on February 15, 2011, 08:12:23 am
If you add "2011" in the title of your video it might come up when her new video is accessed. They censor Kiesha's new video comments so it only has positive feedback.
Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: AlaskaGrl on February 15, 2011, 09:54:51 pm
Yipes. I haven't watched the video but I agree with Ska that portion needs to be removed. It's not appropriate.

Would you inform the maker of the video of the portion that needs to be removed?



Linda.
Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: AlaskaGrl on February 16, 2011, 10:04:18 pm
Yipes. I haven't watched the video but I agree with Ska that portion needs to be removed. It's not appropriate.

Would you inform the maker of the video of the portion that needs to be removed?

Linda.


I re visited the Awesome Video it is re edited  :)

Linda.
Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: ska on February 16, 2011, 10:59:54 pm
Dear Spiral Walk/Linda,

Thanks for letting us know that the video has been edited.  Now, any of us who re-posted the link to the original should remove these links in our posts.

When I posted the link in my response the other day, I did a cut and paste and didn't think the hyperlink would come through, but it did.  I clicked it today and it still links to the original.  I will go back now and delete it from my posting.

As this is a serious matter, I do not know if any of the mods can help to remove any links to the original video which, while certainly well-intentioned, included footage that is inappropriate.

Thanks, ska
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: critter - a white non-ndn person on February 16, 2011, 11:52:55 pm
where is the new link?
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: AlaskaGrl on February 17, 2011, 12:59:30 am
where is the new link?

Here it is.  I am correcting the initial, above link next.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=albQnbN4JjQ

Thanks to everyone who pointed out the issue, and the people who
corrected it, whoever you all are.  And thanks for everyones patience !

Linda.

Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Saga on February 17, 2011, 02:27:17 pm
I don't know if anyone has posted this in the past, but look what I found... this is the site for the Return of the Ancestors gathering by Kiesha in 2009... as you can see, the pipe ceremonies and John Kimmey's speech about hopi prophecies and the meaning of ceremony and some other speakers listed and so on, all is nicely listed in the schedule here... Interesting reading. Can't believe that I haven't bumped into this before.

http://summoningthesacred.com/littlegrandmother/gardenofthegods.html

One of the funnies is "making of individual offerings to the shaman and mother earth"... after creating the sacred altar. One could think that in sacred ceremony the only offerings goes to the sacred.

From the links of that site I ended up in Adam Yellowbird Dearmon's site where earth dance and sweat lodge ceremonies are offered in May 2011...: http://www.earthdance8.org/index.html

And the link section on that site...
Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Freija on February 17, 2011, 04:02:28 pm
The interview in Swedish Radio with Kiesha has been reported to the National Authorities checking TV/Radio productions (I am sure there is a great English name for this board....? ;)  )

Interesting!!
Thanks everyone involved - you know who you are :)
Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: goozih on February 18, 2011, 10:03:39 am
In the tribe of may colours forum/Rainbow cafe/Not so lovely message-urgent need to answer from LG
Chiron posts
Quote
Hallo Kiesha, I woul like to see your answer to those articles:



I mean, that your lovely brothers and sisters must know your real personality. My questions related to this:

your real full name
real parents and family names
your iniciation from who
your membership in some religions

It is nice to listen to your myssages by heart, but the messages about the transformations are everywhere on web. Including a worldwide meditations. Be honest and concrete now and do the answer, we could consider. Thank you, Chiron


Last edited by dreambrave on Thu 17. Feb 2011, 06:40, edited 1 time in total.
editing out links to sites attacking LG

You can read the responses but no one will answer except to say don't judge....blah ...blah...blah...
I am not sure if she was banned but she posted in such a way as they wouldn't ban her publicly.

One response from "sander"
Quote
Seems like LG don't spend time on the forums anymore...


Anyway Kiesha is what she is.... and it doesn't seem to matter to the majority of the "TRIBE"
Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Freija on February 18, 2011, 04:59:10 pm
Anyway Kiesha is what she is.... and it doesn't seem to matter to the majority of the "TRIBE"

I have come to understand - after some discussions with "tribe-members" - that this is the case. They do not have any wish at all for a leader that walks the talk. The words are enough - the person himself does not have a responsibility to live according to his message. He can basically tell the followers what to do - and then do the opposite himself. He can talk about love and truth but then lie and disrespect others - and that´s still okey. In other words, he doesn´t necessarily have to believe in his own message.

I think this is the very reality that many of us find extremely hard to understand.
Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: czech on February 18, 2011, 08:04:34 pm
Freija, this is exactly what is just blowing my mind at the moment, that these people react to facts about Kiesha by saying: "Even if she made it all up, I don't care..." So, do we believe something, even if it is proven untrue, just because we like it??
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: critter - a white non-ndn person on February 18, 2011, 09:57:08 pm
Well, yes. Because that's easier than taking in the fact that you've been duped by a
fraud. It's easier on the 'ego'.

 
Freija, this is exactly what is just blowing my mind at the moment, that these people react to facts about Kiesha by saying: "Even if she made it all up, I don't care..." So, do we believe something, even if it is proven untrue, just because we like it??
Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: czech on February 19, 2011, 07:04:56 am
I guess so... and speaking of reactions, I'm developing an allergy to the phrase "living from the heart"  >:( So, we continue to worship a fraud who has gravely offensed indigenous peoples (who we so admire!), as long as we are living from the heart, that's all that matters  ::)
Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: goozih on February 19, 2011, 03:27:23 pm
It will probably not end well either, I mean Kiesha doesn't seem to be the nurturing type. Actually I think she is a stone cold psychopath so the people will be left to their own devices when she decides to pull out.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: critter - a white non-ndn person on February 19, 2011, 03:51:15 pm
Or, she'll go underground with a cult following .. people who thrive on the idea
of belonging to something secret..
Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Yx Chebel Yax on February 19, 2011, 05:03:03 pm
Thanks folks for being here and advising people, taking a stand towards exploitation of spirituality. To have the courage to speak out loud. You should not have to pay to pray as someone said and to pay for expensive workshops to learn about our ancestors and their knowledge and wisdom. That is totally wrong, so glad to learn about the way of the indigenous people of America and their view upon it, that it is not okay to charge money at all.
Some dear friends got caught up by Kiesha Crowther and her messages through the video clips on YouTube. It sounded so nice and loving. I said well I don’t believe in that because I’ve seen fraudulent people in the New Age circles before. But I started to watch some of her videos and they kind of (at first) appealed to me, but as I started to make research on my own I found out about you and hey…. I understood very quickly that she wasn’t true about her origin, her initiation by whom?, etc small lies that made the expectations come down to earth. And through all your members I got to know more and more. And I’m totally cured today I might say..  ;)
Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Spandex~Atom on February 19, 2011, 08:25:14 pm
I would suggest that anyone who has doubts about a statement going up on the CSKT site contact Rob directly. the last time I spoke to him he told me there would be one going up.

Did he say roughly when?

How difficult is it to write this statement and put it up?

Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: goozih on February 19, 2011, 11:32:07 pm
on TOMC forum/Rainbow cafe/  Not so lovely message - urgent need to answer from LG
Chiron says
Quote
My many opinions with a false gurus made me careful, what I will accept, and what not. Maybe you don´t care who is talking to you, but I do. I did a nice webpage to LG in our language. It took me many time, so I think, that I can recieve a serious answers. Not only some appeals to listen by heart. My heart is clear. But as I said, this is not only abou what is said, but who is speaking, too. You will understand in future. Blessings Chiron

Then one of the Kiesha's forum thought police say
Quote
Dear Brothers and Sisters of the Tribe of Many Colors! :grouphug:

Thank you so much for all your loving support of our dear Little Grandmother. :bouquet:

Dear Chiron.... as with others here.. healthy questioning is a good thing.. but then be careful to check your sources. The issues referred to in these pieces you mention have been clarified completely.. and their source has been verified as very questionable.

I am sorry that you have had experiences with "false Gurus" in the past; this however has no reflection on Little Grandmother as she is not a Guru and has very clearly said several times that she does not wish to be viewed as such.

If you are not comfortable with Little Grandmother, you are welcome to question her elsewhere... please refrain from doing so in this forum. :openingbloom: Also I notice that you have the official logo of the Tribe of Many Colors on your site.... I would be grateful if you would remove this unless your intention is to remove the links which are denigrating her. In any case, you do need permission to use the Tribe logo.

Thank you for your understanding. :openingbloom:

Love and Light to all

If you read any of the nonsense on this forum  you will find you can criticize anything but Kiesha "LITTLE GRANDMOTHER" or TOMC.
It is almost painful to read this dribble....lucky for them I am about had my fill of Kiesha....She has plumb wore me out...
Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: czech on February 21, 2011, 02:05:48 pm
on TOMC forum/Rainbow cafe/  Not so lovely message - urgent need to answer from LG Chiron says

I just learned that Chiron is the webmaster of the Czech version of the Tribe of Many Colors webpage.
He has made public his correspondence that followed his polite questioning with the TOMC team:


(http://betaverze.wz.cz/01.jpg)


(http://betaverze.wz.cz/02.jpg)


I would like to acknowledge Chiron's sincerity and courage in addressing KC upon reading Dr. Carroll's article and not being satisifed with the reactions that followed.

I can see that he had invested much energy and time into promoting KC and her "message" and is now left with just a very bitter feeling.

He is still waiting for the answer.
Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Diana on February 22, 2011, 05:41:22 am
Hi all, I just noticed that the juicy home tour of Kiesha Crowther's Santa Fe house has been taken down. Did anyone copy that or take a snapshot?


Lim lemtsh,

Diana
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Defend the Sacred on February 22, 2011, 07:22:30 pm
Kiesha Crowther (Updated) Alternative Lifestyles of the Rich & Fraudulent

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mYy0xVdPU6Q

This updated version has the inipi footage removed. That section now has a flying eagle, and images of the land and cemetery at Wounded Knee (modern pictures, no bodies or massacre images). At the end is the AIMSB flyer for the upcoming protest in Palm Springs.

ETA - Including some of text from page in case it goes down:

=======================================================

An indigenous spiritual elder is known for his or her humility. He or she sacrifices EVERYTHING for the good of the people and lives a humble existence. I too challenge Mrs. Crowther to give ALL of her ill-gotten gains from her Feb 4-5 workshop to the people of the Pine Ridge, Rosebud & Cheyenne River reservations. She claims to be their shaman, so she knows it is her OBLIGATION to put her people first before her own needs. I also challenge her to bring any lawsuits against me to TRIBAL court.

This video documents the controversy that is going on in the Native American community over Kiesha Crowther's false statement that she is the shaman of the "Sioux and Salish tribe" and the money she has been making from this false claim.

I am mirroring this video so that non-Indian people can have some understanding as to the pain that pretenders like Kiesha Crowther cause native people.

I want non-Indians to understand that only way to stop the exploitation of indigenous peoples' spirituality is for people to STOP paying ANY money for it. Authentic spiritual leaders would never charge money. Ceremonies are not open to anyone who can pay a price - our spirituality is much too sacred for that.

If you have respect and compassion for the indigenous peoples of this land, then allow us to be the guardians of the spirituality that our ancestors developed. Do not support Kiesha Crowther and others like her who exploit our spiritual practices for profit.

Native people and our true friends, who want to take action, can do several things:

Sign the petition:
http://is.gd/4US5B2

Join the Facebook group: League of Pissed off NDNZ for updates:
http://is.gd/Q5cOcf
Another Facebook group to post suggestions, comments on specific actions is:
No More Frauds
http://is.gd/2ATPAV
or the new online forum
NDN 360
http://is.gd/jrOUPK

Activists are calling for people to contact the Palm Springs convention center and ask that they terminate their association with Ms. Crowther.
Palm Springs Convention Center
277 N Avenida Caballeros
Palm Springs CA 92262
Toll Free: 800-333-7535
Phone: 760-325-6611
James Canfield
Executive Director
P: 760-322-8400
F: 760-778-4102
jcanfield@palmspringscc.com

Also here is some info on the local paper to call.
The Desert Sun
http://www.mydesert.com/section/feedback/Feedback
Main number (760) 322-8889
Contact the IRS about Kiesha's suspicious 501 c 3 non-profit organization, the SLV Wildlife & Endangered Species Rescue Center
http://is.gd/cIlpCM
and advise them this was NOT a legitimate charity, but a money making enterprise that should be taxed.
Don't Pay to Pray has extensive tips on combating internet fraud
http://is.gd/ekCWZB

Native American activists and our friends are encouraged to mirror this video.

Also post this video to forums, blogs and Facebook pages and speak out whenever someone exploits Native spiritual practices for money.

Aim Santa Barbara has a web site giving information about the upcoming protest of Kiesha Crowther in Palm Springs, CA
www.aimsb.org

Facts about Pine Ridge can be found in the online article:
The Arrogance of Ignorance: Hidden Away, Out of Sight and Out of Mind
http://is.gd/eJZNOh

YouTube clips of Pine Ridge were from
Images of Pine Ridge Reservation
http://is.gd/kK6KXd
and
Pine Ridge Reservation: Waiting for Stimulus Help
http://is.gd/EDISdC
An article exposing Kiesha Crowther's many misrepresentations can be found here:
http://is.gd/27HYFI
Also visit shadowfax1920 channel for information about the Native American perspective on Little Grandmother's activities.

"Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. " -- Margaret Mead
Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Spandex~Atom on February 24, 2011, 12:04:38 am


Keisha Crowther says - “If you speak of negativity. If you speak of hate, and anger, and judgement, that is the world you will create around you, and that’s the world you will live in. But if you speak of love, and compassion, and tenderness, and believe that all things are made of love and light, this is the world that you will live in. It is your choice. This is what it all boils down to. Our planet is going through something very difficult right now. But on the other side of every storm, there is a rainbow. This is what we must give our attention to, the greatness that can come, and will come. and witWe must give our attention to how we act, with each other  h our planet.”
http://consciouslifenews.com/shaman-little-grandmother-difficulties-change-love-2011/115023/

Kiesha, it's time to fess up, come clean and make a fresh start. The people who love you won't mind and will actually appreciate you being humble enough to be honest. The rest of your message about earth shifts and the daily prayers and stuff doesn't have to change. Have a bit of faith in love? if you really have any belief in the earth changes, you know this deception can't continue. Burn off a bit of karma and shed this snake-skin. You will feel lighter for it.



Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: critter - a white non-ndn person on February 24, 2011, 02:19:46 am
Keisha Crowther says - “If you speak of negativity. If you speak of hate, and anger, and judgement, that is the world you will create around you, and that’s the world you will live in. But if you speak of love, and compassion, and tenderness, and believe that all things are made of love and light, this is the world that you will live in. It is your choice.

Well, that's pffft...  I mean, how in the world would people ever be able to
work out their differences if they cannot 'speak' of the negative things that
have caused such difficulties in their relations?  And this is not just in regards
to races and cultures.. but any relationship. 

Yah.. stick your head in a hole and pretend the bad things done to you or that
you've done to another don't exist and pretend that because of your pretending,
the world has changed.

I have low tolerance for this kind of talk.. all fluff and no common sense at all.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Freija on February 24, 2011, 08:13:07 am
Well, that's pffft...  I mean, how in the world would people ever be able to
work out their differences if they cannot 'speak' of the negative things that
have caused such difficulties in their relations?  And this is not just in regards
to races and cultures.. but any relationship.  

I totally agree with you, Critter. I work with human realations, especially conflict resolution, since 20 years back. What we encourage people to do is to talk about negative things, address the anger and bitterness in order to solve the problem.  Surpressing these feelings  can lead to psychosomatic symptoms. I have noticed Kiesha´s followers often discuss their ailments, referring it to "bad energies" and "low vibrations". I wonder if it might be caused by all the "forbidden" feelings simmering inside them?

Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Spandex~Atom on February 24, 2011, 12:08:17 pm
What we encourage people to do is to talk about negative things, address the anger and bitterness in order to solve the problem.  Surpressing these feelings  can lead to psychosomatic symptoms. I have noticed Kiesha´s followers often discuss their ailments, referring it to "bad energies" and "low vibrations". I wonder if it might be caused by all the "forbidden" feelings simmering inside them?


Kiesha, this could partly be why you are looking so worn out and sickly lately. Lies will fester inside if someone has any conscience at all, or can feel emotion. When what someone is saying conflicts with what they know inside to be the truth, the conflict has to cause an imbalance. The imbalance causes dis-ease. Suppressing a guilty truth is very destructive, like a wound you won't let heal. Every time you suppress it or add to the lie is like deepening the wound and opening it up. Eventually it will get infected and spread illness in your whole spiritual body so that you lose perspective on things like right and wrong completely. There is a simple cure, but it takes alot more balls than just making excuses. Kiesha, you will find it alot more empowering to let the truth have its day instead of letting it fester inside. Come on, you know it's time, and then you can get on with your lightwork with a clear conscience. If you can't set the example to others in how to confess your errors and change your ways in order to be wholely in the light, then how do you expect others to be brave enough to come out of the darkness and come into the light? You are denying basic spiritual alchemy, while professing to heal earth? First heal yourself with honesty and the light of truth. Love yourself and others enough to be true. That's why True Love has 'true' in it. Love with lies is the most destructive thing in the universe. Please don't continue on this perrilous path.

....remember the part in Indiana and the Holy Grail? (I'm sure you have seen it)...."only the penitant may pass"?  Well, you set yourself this test, and now you need to pass it. In the story, the person who can't be penitant (repentant) loses their head literally. It's a metaphor which should make sense to you. You cannot continue as a lightworker and suppress the truth and keep your metaphorical head, if you have any conscience at all. The forces of light will tend to pour the hot coals of truth over you as if you were some impure metal needing to be refined (as are we all). It won't stop until you allow the truth to come out. That's how it works. Don't fight against the alchemical process you yourself initiated. The forces you put into play are not to be mocked.
Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: secondsight on February 24, 2011, 04:44:58 pm
Hi,

Just noticed the TOMC forum is no longer on the website.

Second SIght
Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: TRIBALMOONS@yahoo.com on February 24, 2011, 04:51:38 pm
I may be a little late gettin to this Party but have ya'll seen this one? I laughed so hard i peed myself!

<iframe title="YouTube video player" width="480" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/zpcL7Lg6qVQ?rel=0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: critter - a white non-ndn person on February 24, 2011, 06:05:29 pm
I am not a person who thinks people who believe in aliens/ufo's or who have seen them
to be kooks.

I do not like her exploiting this or any information to feed her delusions, delusional followers,
and bank account.

Again, she reasons that somehow we humans are the center of the universe that even the
aliens cater to us by making crystal skulls or whatever else.

Feeding the human ego.. we are that important.. that all the universe's beings must cater to us.

I couldn't watch the whole of the video, as always.. too much talk from her and I have to shut
it off.  I don't need to walk neck high into the septic tank to know it's sh*t.
Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Yx Chebel Yax on February 24, 2011, 09:11:48 pm
critter - a white non-ndn person:
Quote
I am not a person who thinks people who believe in aliens/ufo's or who have seen them to be kooks.

Out of curiosity, and because I don’t  want to ridicule something that is related to extraterrestrial phenomena. I like to keep an open mind. There could be some truth to what is exposed by numerous people all over the world.

We can have different opinions about things and disagree. You can propagate for what you believe in as I do for what I believe in. But with respect towards each other’s different beliefs. That’s how we can coexist peacefully.

The problem is when we have to pay for expensive workshops in order to learn about spirituality etc. When ancient wisdom and getting to know about our ancestors and their ideas and thoughts are commercialized! We must oppose that. It is not ethical to charge money for any ceremony or teaching. They belong to the Native peoples.

It’s so sad to watch the video down below, the contrast between the “modern shaman” Kiesha Crowther and the living conditions for the Native peoples she says she’s representing. Two different worlds, way apart. The Native peoples don’t get any of the income their culture and traditions generate among the fake shamans etc. Their traditions get misused. That has not anything to do with respect and love towards the indigenous peoples. It’s quite the opposite.

I think that people in Europe, don’t have much knowledge of the situation of the indigenous peoples of the USA.  But as a lot of people are out on the Internet a Forum like this one, is very important.


Kiesha Crowther (Updated) Alternative Lifestyles of the Rich & Fraudulent :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mYy0xVdPU6Q


Kathryn
Global Moderator
Quote

"Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. " -- Margaret Mead”

And if you’re a bit curious to learn about UFO:s

UFO DISCLOSURE 2010 : Former Canadian defence minister Paul Hellyer
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9fu-eo2TZT4

U.F.O DISCLOSURE PROJECT -FULL VERSION
A large number of ex high ranking officals including air traffic controllers, ex secret op. officers, commercial pilots, numorous military defence specialists with top secret clearance, people who had access to very sensitive documents, lieutenants, ex commanders in the u.s airforce, astronauts,etc...
all going before the national press club to discuss what their experiences have been regarding u.f.o's and all are willing to go before congress to testify under oath.. never before has such a group come forward..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7vyVe-6YdUk&feature=related

 

Love and respect to you all
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: critter - a white non-ndn person on February 24, 2011, 10:56:18 pm
I agree on keeping it here in regards to theft of culture/beliefs.

Unfortunately, many people like KC make a good buck off other "curiosities"
as well.. and it just muddies those things as much as it muddies cultural
distinctions and beliefs.

I am hopeful I did not offend you with my statement you quoted. I am not
sure you were addressing me specifically, or "you" as in the general population.

:)
Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Yx Chebel Yax on February 25, 2011, 10:13:13 am
Hello Critter - a white non-ndn person!
I thought your answer to "MoonieSixkiller"  the one before you was a good one, therefore your quote. And I wanted to explain a bit about my thoughts and yes my message was a general one but also directed to "MoonieSixkiller". We are different we believe in different things but we have to coexist and do that with respect.
Have a good weekend..take good care of yourself and of each other..
Maria
Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Freija on February 25, 2011, 11:39:11 am
Hi,

Just noticed the TOMC forum is no longer on the website.

Second SIght


New address:
http://healingsanctuary.freeforums.org/the-rainbow-cafe-f12.html

Checked out the Rainbow Cafe discussion. The thread with Chiron´s questions about Kiesha`s background is gone.
And that was a very polite and mature discussion - no hard words, no "attacks", no accusations. Just a wish to find out the truth.
The censorship is extremely strict!

Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: secondsight on February 25, 2011, 03:50:57 pm
HI Frieja,

So they moved to a free forum...wonder if the moderator will delete posts there?

How come there wasn't a link or something to the free forum? Maybe I missed it.

Chiron was so honest in his questions, if anyone deserved a direct response from LG it would be someone who donated hours of time in website development.

One can hardly keep up with all the changes, deletions, censorship and dodging tactics from LG's team! The LG Team's version of spin and hype! LOL!

Second Sight
Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Freija on February 25, 2011, 05:16:45 pm
HI Frieja,

How come there wasn't a link or something to the free forum? Maybe I missed it.

Chiron was so honest in his questions, if anyone deserved a direct response from LG it would be someone who donated hours of time in website development.

One can hardly keep up with all the changes, deletions, censorship and dodging tactics from LG's team! The LG Team's version of spin and hype! LOL!

I don´t think they ever put up a link to the free forum. There are apparantley a lot of people around who don´t know about this new forum. What was the reason for moving it? Haven´t got a clue. Maybe yet another Moderator "saw the light". ???  If I was a follower I would surely wonder what is going on. (But I guess that means having to be in your head instead of your heart...)
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Defend the Sacred on February 25, 2011, 06:53:55 pm
New video today:


Making a Noise : Why Natives Should Protest Kiesha Crowther

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qyolOPbu_go

wyomingoutdoorsman | Feb 25, 2011 | 4 likes, 0 dislikes

The purpose of this video is to motivate people to protest Kiesha Crowther aka Little Grandmother. She is a charlatan. She has no compassion for Native people and she is not concerned that she is harming future generations by confusing authentic traditions with imitation rituals and non-Indian occult practices in an offensive and harmful pseudo-religious hodgepodge. Her activities create a momentous obstacle in the struggle of traditional people for mainstream recognition of our legitimate political, legal and spiritual concerns. She is doing great harm to native peoples because her bogus teachings supplant Native values of cooperation, generosity, sharing, honesty, and courage with vapid, narcissistic New Age self-centered values.


She refuses to deal honestly with the Native people she has outraged and offended and she will only acknowledge a vague, unnamed "elder" to validate the ridiculous story she has concocted to justify her exploitation, abuse and deliberate misrepresentation of sacred traditions.

Kiesha Crowther has no wisdom to teach. She should be learning a lessons from Native and environmental activists, not demonizing them and telling to stop thinking.

Kiesha Crowther is not the fulfillment of any Native prophesies. She is nothing more than a cult leader who promotes abominable and obscene imitations of sacred Lakota rites while promoting a dangerous and destructive philosophy that violates an individual's basic human right to reason, analyze and attribute his own meaning to the world around him.
I call on all our indigenous brothers and sisters from reservations, reserves, and traditional communities in the United States and Canada to actively and vocally oppose this alarming take-over and systematic destruction of sacred traditions.

I urge all indigenous people to coordinate with their tribal members living in urban areas to identify instances in which our sacred traditions are being abused, and then to resist this abuse, utilizing whatever specific tactics are necessary and sufficient.

As indigenous people, we all need to take strong action to ensure that our culture would be carried on by the younger generations, and by the generations yet to come. Our relatives have sacrificed in many areas to ensure that both our language and way of life will always survive and flourish for us not to take action against those who thoughtless exploit our life ways for money.


For more information, see this Press Release from AIM Santa Barbara:
http://is.gd/DeAs7H

http://www.aimsb.org/library/KCrowtherPressRelease.pdf

If you can't participate in the Little Grandmother protest, there are still things you can do to take a stand against her exploitation.

http://is.gd/U2frec

Join the Facebook group: League of Pissed off NDNZ for updates:

http://is.gd/Q5cOcf

The music you're listening to is Making a Noise by Robbie Robertson. You can get it here:
http://itunes.apple.com/us/artist/robbie-robertson/id657429


"She has fabricated an identity in the style of racist white fantasies of native culture. She has created a hodge podge of New Age nonsense that trivializes and minimizes the beauty and complexity of indigenous ceremonial lifeways while erasing the uniqueness and diversity of individual tribal beliefs."

"Kiesha Crowther has demonstrated contempt for the integrity of the spiritual practices she distorts."

*** NOTE - video includes a brief but very clear image of the dead from one of the massacres ***
Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Yx Chebel Yax on February 25, 2011, 08:43:54 pm
American Indian Movement:
Quote
Keisha Crowther, who has became known throughout Indian Country as "Little Fraudmother"- has came under intense scrutiny and research that has exposed her exaggerations of being the "Shaman" of the Salish and Sioux people. There is no such entity in existence, and she blames an individual named "Falling Feathers" for this deception, but she has continued to base her ongoing activities based on this foundation and making enormous profit from it. In December, she revised her statement to reflect this, however, she acts without any validity or authentic credentials in her background while relying upon a myth for her reason of being. Although she claims she will cease any representation of Native spirituality, she clings to a lie that she is something she never was, marketing this lie and capitalizing on this identity fraud.
Wyomingoutdoorsman:
Quote
Kiesha Crowther has no wisdom to teach. She should be learning a lessons from Native and environmental activists, not demonizing them and telling to stop thinking.

Kiesha Crowther is not the fulfillment of any Native prophesies. She is nothing more than a cult leader who promotes abominable and obscene imitations of sacred Lakota rites while promoting a dangerous and destructive philosophy that violates an individual's basic human right to reason, analyze and attribute his own meaning to the world around him.


As you people are commenting Kiesha Crowther is constantly changing the contents in her Forum “ Tribe of Many Colors”, just to suit her own purposes. But still she bases her teachings on being a shaman lacking the validity from those she says she is representing. And she continues to make a great profit from it. And as I understand this has a great impact on the Native culture and spirituality, because she is confusing people about what it’s really about. I hope with all my heart that “The American Indian movement” and all the other groups might put an end to it. You got all my support.. Just wish I could do something more…

Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: critter - a white non-ndn person on February 25, 2011, 08:46:48 pm
New video today:


Making a Noise : Why Natives Should Protest Kiesha Crowther

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qyolOPbu_go


Is it just me or does anyone else have a really hard time reading
the red lettering?  Maybe a darker/maroon type would work better?

But maybe it's just me.. so..

btw.. that's one of my fav songs :D
Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Yx Chebel Yax on February 25, 2011, 09:35:02 pm
Hello critter - a white non-ndn person
I agree with you about the red lettering, could be a bit darker.
I also love his music... A very informative video..
The message is clear!


 from Kathryn on Today at 07:53:55 pm
Quote
New video today:

Making a Noise : Why Natives Should Protest Kiesha Crowther

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qyolOPbu_go


Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: goozih on February 25, 2011, 11:45:09 pm
I just signed up on the new forum and got in, as I was banned on the old forum. I posted a simple question so we will see how long I last.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Defend the Sacred on February 26, 2011, 07:39:36 pm
Initial reports are that the protest this morning went well, and was peaceful.

AIM members entered the building with a drum, passed out flyers and calmly educated the attendees.

Many people there to see Kiesha were assuming she was Indigenous, and had no idea she's a fraud. They were shocked to hear the truth about her. They listened and took flyers.

Last night Kiesha posted on facebook that she was vomiting on the floor in the airport, had a nose bleed and was thinking of canceling. She asked for prayers.  Today in Palm Springs she did show up for her talk, and in it she tried to blame her vomiting and nosebleeds on the NDNs.

More to come.
Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: WineHippie on February 27, 2011, 12:17:47 am
greetings from the high arizona desert ...
i posted this on another forum, i just wanted you all to know
that because of my education here, i may be able to shed
light on the info over there ... if you would like to read the post
in context, the link for the thread is at bottom - also, i am glad
to hear some attendees may have received more enlightenment than they
counted on, from the protest in palm springs

Quote
i won't play the guru game, either, otter ...
i do not have a guru, so i am out ....
***
i think the indians are watching and commenting and
organizing against ALL people who seem, to the indians,
to be commercializing sacred info/objects/ceremonies
for profit .... in my experience, when i compare someone
like john trudell (for an example) to kiesha c, trudell
rings truest, hands down and kiesha's credibility drops ...
***
all i know is this: i could take all the new age/indigenous info
i have soaked up over the last 40 years, dress up in some
sort of costume, whether it be indian regalia or saffron robes,
and begin to speak/make vids/write essays/give interviews/etc
and some may be fooled into thinking i am the "real deal" ...
i probably wouldn't get too far, cuz you would need a bunch of cash
to propel the "business" toward any kind of big money ...
apparently, kiesha has some great backing, to have become so
popular so quickly ... and there is more to it than simply preaching
about love and light ... kiesha's assistant or manager started
to threaten lawsuits against people speaking out against her
and on their forum (tribe of many colors) anyone who asks a question
in regard to this "conflict" between kiesha and debunkers is
immediately banned ... there was a message sent out, supposedly
from this same manager, that the "dark ones" who have engaged in the
search for truth (or, smear campaign they would have you believe)
have had a curse put on them ... !!! doesn't sound so "loving" now, does it?
***
so my question is, if kiesha is truly who
she says she is, why does she choose NOT to answer specific
inquiries into her lineage? why does she say she was appointed/trained
by a holy man of the tribe, but the tribe has no knowledge of this
male person? why does she claim to be recognized by others who then
put out a notice that she is mistaken? why have there been so many edits to
her own website, and i am talking about specific claims, not typos here...
just way too many questions for me to accept, without investigation, who this woman is ...
***
you must understand, please, that i do not discuss my thoughts and feelings
here because i think any of you need protection from con games, i contribute to
the conversation in the same spirit as any other topic - i am curious
to know the truth
***
if you visit lg's forum, i think you will see a lot of similarities to other
forums we have discussed along with methods of indoctrination/censorship/cult-like behavior ...

http://theforceiswithinyou.twilightlegend.com/t4580-2011-little-grandmother#41281 (http://theforceiswithinyou.twilightlegend.com/t4580-2011-little-grandmother#41281)
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Defend the Sacred on February 27, 2011, 01:06:50 am
Good post. Thank you for talking to them :)
Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Superdog on February 27, 2011, 03:34:38 am
I just signed up on the new forum and got in, as I was banned on the old forum. I posted a simple question so we will see how long I last.

TOMC forum is back up with Chiron's thread still in tact.

Superdog
Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: goozih on February 27, 2011, 03:42:29 am
It seems there was a major backlash because "Kiesha" was ending the forum http://tribeofmanycolors.us/tribeforum/viewforum.php?f=16&sid=7cfdecb8eb0b7829f2bdf92a04d53cf9 (http://tribeofmanycolors.us/tribeforum/viewforum.php?f=16&sid=7cfdecb8eb0b7829f2bdf92a04d53cf9)(TOMC) and many people were upset and spoke up about the actions of the "Tribe ' moderators . The forum http://healingsanctuary.freeforums.org/index.php (http://healingsanctuary.freeforums.org/index.php) was started by the people on their own, independent of Kiesha. They were very open and did not ban me and didn't seem to want to waste time on discussing Kiesha .
Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Superdog on February 27, 2011, 03:43:54 am
The forum is still up, but not linked from the littlegrandmother.net page.

There's a thread here discussing the end of the forum.  Seems Kiesha's shutting it down...she gives various reasons...having new messages, concentrating on travelling and doing her work...writing her book..etc.

Here's her message.

http://tribeofmanycolors.us/tribeforum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1314

Announcement: A Heartfelt Farewell to the Forum!
I would like to say a gracious thank you to all who have participated in this wonderful Tribe of Many Colors forum since it began, and especially to those who have helped me by volunteering countless hours to facilitating and moderating the forum. So many have given so much time and effort into getting this up on the web and creating such a lovely place for people to connect and express their feelings. It is with great sadness that I must announce that we are now shutting the forum down, so that I may better focus on the intense work ahead of me during this year. There are so many things I must give my full attention to this year that I find it impossible to have my energies pulled in several different directions. Although the forum was a beautiful place to connect, it did require so much time and effort by many people to keep it up and running. I would like to particularly thank Bear John, Steve, Francesca, and the Moderators who generously spent endless hours creating and monitoring this space so that others might have a beautiful way to connect. Thank you from my heart for your amazing contribution! :bouquet:
This year has already proven more intense than the last couple of years that I have been working in the capacity of shaman and light worker. With new energies flowing at an intense level and my work calling me in many different areas, I will be focusing on my travels to spread the message with all brothers and sisters around the world and finishing the book that will be coming out this year. As many of you know, there are many changes in the world happening at this pivotal time on our planet and we are all in a heightened state of being. Great changes are coming to our world that require our inner and outer attention. In order for me to concentrate on what is most important, I too must learn to let go of some things that are not as important as others. The last two years have been a huge learning process for me too! Every day I am learning new lessons and refining how I work in the world, and how I must focus my energies in order to do what I came here to do! Toward this end, after much inner contemplation---I have decided that in place of the forum, I will be providing a live broadcast every month for all to join in that will bring the global tribe of many colors together in the most positive and essential way. These free 20 minute broadcasts will allow us to come together to focus our healing intentions for the planet on a regular basis; longer format broadcasts will be interactive, exploring new dimensions of the message, and will feature Q and A. Imagine if you will, thousands of people all over the world tuning in together to meditate and pray for the waters, the animals, a particular area of the world, to create something beautiful. One person’s attuned heart can do such good; if we join our love and our prayers together, what great good this can do. This is exactly what the purpose and mission is for the live broadcasts. Together we will not just be talking about joining our energies to create a better world, but literally doing it together. We can remember how powerful we are and what an unstoppable force of good we can be when we bring our light energy and love together. We are the ones we have been waiting for. We can be the change we want to see. We are the Tribe of Many Colors. I look forward to seeing you during the broadcasts every month -- you can find the specific dates and times on my website, http://www.littlegrandmother.net.

See you there!
Love Little Grandmother

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Looks like she's replacing the forum with her weekly webcasts (why have some place where people can question you right?...control everything....)  Interesting, but not totally surprising...


Superdog
Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Superdog on February 27, 2011, 04:10:48 am
From reading the thread it seems the choice to shut down the forum was a sudden one.  Happened on the 24th and she literally only gave the mods a few hours notice.  Most of the messages are very nice farewells, but there are definitely some people who feel upset at Kiesha for various reasons regarding the shutdown and one for not answering any real questions. 

If you follow goozih's thread on the new forum, that explains all the answers where they keep saying she has nothing to do with that forum....she doesn't....it just happens to carry over a lot of the people from the TOMC forum.

For now the TOMC forum is still up...i think it's gonna last another week.

Superdog
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: critter - a white non-ndn person on February 27, 2011, 04:11:46 am
Looks like she's replacing the forum with her weekly webcasts (why have some place where people can question you right?...control everything....)  Interesting, but not totally surprising...


Superdog

Exactly.. what she shoulda said was that the forum is providing too clear
a place where people could see her real wish for full control over people
and what they think and say.  Every time a simple question ended with
the questioner banned had to start to give people more pause as to
what the deal is with her..

So.. to not ban and leave open all those questions that would put her
out of business.. or ban and have the money flow trickle to a stop as
people withdraw due to the censorship/dictator atmosphere of the place..
or.. just close it with some excuse the most gullible will fall for..

I can't imagine the "follower made" forum could last that long as truth
will begin to seep in there.. and KC will probably threaten law suits or
"curses"..  ?  

Interesting tho..
Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Freija on February 27, 2011, 10:24:21 am
For now the TOMC forum is still up...i think it's gonna last another week.

Superdog

Nope.
Not even a week  
http://tribeofmanycolors.us/tribeforum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1314

 ;)

Oops, is up again.  :)
Interesting.

I noticed on the TOMC FB-site that some people supported Native Americans,  saying they understand why Ndn:s react the way they do. I was quite happy to see that post - the comments were nice and polite, not involving Kiesha in any way or form.  The whole post was pulled. (!)
Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Superdog on February 27, 2011, 09:49:51 pm
Here's something new on the littlegrandmother.net page...

http://littlegrandmother.net/TribeofManyColors.aspx

"Tribe of Many Colors --all rights reserved and copyrighted 2011"



Copyrighted now??  Is there still anyone doubting that she is a business?  Close the forum and copyright the name....hmmm....

I'm actually starting to feel bad for some of the followers that are getting the cruel awakening they are now and I wish them the best of luck.  She's been misrepresenting herself from the start and it seems that her inner camp is rather business savvy, to the detriment of those that believed in her. 

Superdog

Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Autumn on February 27, 2011, 10:21:35 pm
It seems there was a major backlash because "Kiesha" was ending the forum http://tribeofmanycolors.us/tribeforum/viewforum.php?f=16&sid=7cfdecb8eb0b7829f2bdf92a04d53cf9 (http://tribeofmanycolors.us/tribeforum/viewforum.php?f=16&sid=7cfdecb8eb0b7829f2bdf92a04d53cf9)(TOMC) and many people were upset and spoke up about the actions of the "Tribe ' moderators . The forum http://healingsanctuary.freeforums.org/index.php (http://healingsanctuary.freeforums.org/index.php) was started by the people on their own, independent of Kiesha. They were very open and did not ban me and didn't seem to want to waste time on discussing Kiesha .

Why were you banned from the original site, Goozih?  I read your comments on the new site and they were very respectful and courteous.  I was amazed at the comments written on the new site about how they distance themselves from Kiesha (although they were still the same people as on the old site).  They acted as if they had nothing to do with the original site and referred you to the old one.  Their comments that "they don't know and don't care" about Kiesha's background (or her many lies), and that "by their fruits ye shall know them" were a little weird.  They seem like a bunch of good-meaning people and I had considered joining the site myself, but as someone else mentioned on this site, they just don't care.  They are all into forgiveness (of whatever faults Kiesha may have) and being non-judgmental.  They still speak of Kiesha in loving terms and refer to themselves as the "tribe".  I do feel sorry for them that they just won't admit that they were misled by this false prophet. 
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Defend the Sacred on February 27, 2011, 11:18:40 pm
The new site is the same people. I'm glad they're getting away from Kiesha, but there's still a whole lot of pretendians and appropriators there.
Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: educatedindian on February 27, 2011, 11:30:03 pm
It's pretty likely that Crowther's claim of a nosebleed and vomiting at Palm Springs were yet another attempt to solicit sympathy. OTH it may have been (or she may have unwittingly revealed) some psychosomatic guilt, as well as simple nervousness and fear that her hoax was being uncovered and is now revelaed to large numbers of her followers. (And it certainly shows her claim that no "real Indians" were opposed to her was an obvious lie.) Probably the ones at that conference who were most shocked were the ones who aren't on the net much and had not yet heard about her lies or that she's been exposed.

No doubt the conference also had plenty of types like we've often seen online, people so desperate to believe or so deluded that they frankly don't care she's obviously not what she claims to be. But Crowther's camp is so desperate for control they keep shutting down forums, and that is alienating even many of them.

(That it's out now that Crowther and Ferraro are a couple, that is romantic partners, is an interesting twist. Like pretty much all of us here I think, we have no problem with her being gay. NAFPS has long had gay members and we kicked out people before for gay bashing. But since Ferraro is now her romantic partner PLUS business partner says even more that she is the real power behind the throne, perhaps the Svengali pulling Crowther's strings.)

I've said it before and it's really simple: If they want to end the protests, drop all claims of being made a "shaman" by this seemingly nonexistent Falling Feathers. Drop all faux-NDN claims. Apologize. Pay reparations. Finally be honest, and just say you're one person with your own (albeit unoriginal and flaky) entirely self created vision. It probably would shrink her following by half, but at least it'd be half as many as those now who are being unfairly manipulated, cheated and abused. The longer she persists in obvious lies the more she will see a slow decline in her following instead. And if she's an emotional wreck now, how much worse a state can she get over time? And will that continue to manifest itself in this extreme control over her followers?>
Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: goozih on February 28, 2011, 07:12:02 am
Hi Autumn, I was banned from TOMC forum for saying there was inaccuracies in one of her videos or in other words "Lies". I knew I would be banned.
Any way the TOMC forum is officially down.
Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Superdog on February 28, 2011, 03:28:14 pm
It's pretty likely that Crowther's claim of a nosebleed and vomiting at Palm Springs were yet another attempt to solicit sympathy. OTH it may have been (or she may have unwittingly revealed) some psychosomatic guilt, as well as simple nervousness and fear that her hoax was being uncovered and is now revelaed to large numbers of her followers. (And it certainly shows her claim that no "real Indians" were opposed to her was an obvious lie.) Probably the ones at that conference who were most shocked were the ones who aren't on the net much and had not yet heard about her lies or that she's been exposed. >

If it's true, (just hard to believe anything that comes from her) then from my point of view it comes from messing with these ways as she does.  She's opened herself up to this kind of sickness.  No one did it it to her....she did it to herself because she didn't listen and pay attention to the voices that are saying what she's doing is wrong.  I would say she herself is in need of some healing and it all begins with admitting the truth and humbling herself.  Everything you do comes back on you...this is just an example of that and the fact that she misinterprets it is a clear sign to me that she hasn't heard anything.  It should also be a warning to any other overnight "Native American shaman" of what awaits you down the road if you continue on the same path Crowther currently follows.

Superdog
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: critter - a white non-ndn person on February 28, 2011, 04:09:45 pm
If you're not used to desert air, you can easily have a nose bleed. As for vomiting, perhaps she had
a bad case of nerves not knowing what to expect with the protesters. 

Or, it was a lie put in place "just in case" .. something to use if need be.. to bow out of the appearance,
or drum up a bit more funding.. or.. to try and set the stage up to pretend she is so fragile/sensitive to
angry/negative energies.. and hence, either gain deeper loyalty from followers, or have them flocking
to her aid in one way or another..

A manipulator like KC doesn't leave things to be.. they are constantly trying to manipulate and shape
every event of life to suit their need. Either by creating complete falsities, or by taking something as
simple as a case of dry air nose bleed and nerves and manipulating it into something grand to further
the agenda..

Not saying that her own guilt and apparent mental illness couldn't be a cause of such illness.. it could
very well be..

Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Yx Chebel Yax on March 01, 2011, 08:37:35 pm
Kathryn
Global Moderator
Quote
The new site is the same people. I'm glad they're getting away from Kiesha, but there's still a whole lot of pretendians and appropriators there.
http://healingsanctuary.freeforums.org

Hi,
Just noticed  that in the new forum, the continuation of TOMC (Tribe of Many Colors) the moderators have locked the possiblity to make any further comments to the post "Is Kiesha a Native American". They do as they did in the previous forum: no criticism is allowed to continue. Must be stopped.
 I know because we were banned in my family in the old Forum "Tribe of Many Colors". We have the same IP-number several family members. My daughter asked about the autencity of Kiesha ( if she was a real Native American etc) and as a source used Al Carroll and his article that she found to be very substantial and trustworthy. They removed the link to his article and then banned her for trolling.
What to say ... the story is repeating itself. That is not the way in a modern society.. where free speech and questioning is normal before taking a decision/stand on what to believe in or not, the healthy form of a democracy.
Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Freija on March 01, 2011, 08:57:33 pm
My friend made some positive comments about Indians - and  got deleted. She received a PM saying she was negative.  ???
Comments and questions about Kiesha are being censored all the time on the FB-page. If people don´t see what is going on, they must be blind. Following LG is more important than loosing your freedom of speech??!

 
Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Autumn on March 02, 2011, 04:34:42 pm
Kathryn 
Global Moderator
Quote
The new site is the same people. I'm glad they're getting away from Kiesha, but there's still a whole lot of pretendians and appropriators there.
http://healingsanctuary.freeforums.org

Hi,
Just noticed  that in the new forum, the continuation of TOMC (Tribe of Many Colors) the moderators have locked the possiblity to make any further comments to the post "Is Kiesha a Native American". They do as they did in the previous forum: no criticism is allowed to continue. Must be stopped.
 I know because we were banned in my family in the old Forum "Tribe of Many Colors". We have the same IP-number several family members. My daughter asked about the autencity of Kiesha ( if she was a real Native American etc) and as a source used Al Carroll and his article that she found to be very substantial and trustworthy. They removed the link to his article and then banned her for trolling.
What to say ... the story is repeating itself. That is not the way in a modern society.. where free speech and questioning is normal before taking a decision/stand on what to believe in or not, the healthy form of a democracy.

I recently joined the Forum and was immediately in once I entered my information (stay clear of entering your cell phone because that signs you up for something you will be billed for).  They do claim to have no ties to LG but the members have links to her videos on their personal websites and they do still mention her in their individual posts (entering links to her videos) and her influence is still there (regarding the "story" about crystals).  Even if an old thread is "locked", you can still open a new thread (not that they would respond to your queries).  They claim to be open to all dialogue, however, so you will just have to see how it goes.  I intend to join in their discussions and gently question them about their beliefs and see if they can reason things out.  I think that is all any of us can do.
Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: étoiles célestes on March 03, 2011, 05:55:28 pm
Kathryn
Global Moderator
Quote
The new site is the same people. I'm glad they're getting away from Kiesha, but there's still a whole lot of pretendians and appropriators there.
http://healingsanctuary.freeforums.org

Hi,
Just noticed  that in the new forum, the continuation of TOMC (Tribe of Many Colors) the moderators have locked the possiblity to make any further comments to the post "Is Kiesha a Native American". They do as they did in the previous forum: no criticism is allowed to continue. Must be stopped.
 I know because we were banned in my family in the old Forum "Tribe of Many Colors". We have the same IP-number several family members. My daughter asked about the autencity of Kiesha ( if she was a real Native American etc) and as a source used Al Carroll and his article that she found to be very substantial and trustworthy. They removed the link to his article and then banned her for trolling.
What to say ... the story is repeating itself. That is not the way in a modern society.. where free speech and questioning is normal before taking a decision/stand on what to believe in or not, the healthy form of a democracy.


This is their Mission Statement ~     http://healingsanctuary.freeforums.org/mission-statement-for-our-sacred-healing-sanctuary-t122.html


Mission statement for our sacred healing sanctuary

This forum is a place where people from all over the world are gathering and sharing.
We are an independent forum, meaning that we act neutral.
That means that all people are welcome here whatever religion, culture, or belief system they come from.
We will not promote any cultural, spiritual or religious leaders here.
We also do not have any connection to Kiesha Crowther aka Little Grandmother.
WE ARE ALL EQUAL.
Yes we may learn from each other.
And most of all from ourselves.
Just don't place anybody above yourselves.
May our Paths be one of Pure Love.

Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: naparyaq on March 04, 2011, 12:13:59 pm
More of the same, different people.

Dr Masaru Emoto (center) sharing his "key of life" crystal research at a seminar in Big Bear Lake (S.CA) with Suzy Chaffee (Olympic skier), Gina Weiss (host), and Blue Thunder (Serrano/E.Shosht: Christie Walker one) leader of the Medicine Wheel Ceremony that saved the community. Photo credit: Christie Walker
http://www.nativevoices.org/

Suzy Chaffee is a flake of wondrous proportion. Lives off "Native American causes" donations. Puts every penny in her pocket and these people as well. Somehow just keeps getting away with it.

She lives in Sedona, or is headquartered there when not at her condo in Mexico. Paid for with donations, I might add. She's part of the Adam Yellowbird crowd, Benny Le Beau. Some others. She seems to just latch on to whomever, whenever.
The sweatlodge expert may well be connected to her as well. She was shacked up with a guy named David Rolling Bear, a sweatlodge "expert" in Telluride, CO at the time. No idea if it's the same guy.
Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Saga on March 04, 2011, 02:32:16 pm
About the TOMC, they seem to have yet another official site opened up in fb, still need to request to join to read it. This one is probably controlled by Jennifer herself, since the email is the "beautyawakens" one.
Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: goozih on March 04, 2011, 04:21:41 pm
I wonder what Jennifer's history is? She seems to be the push behind "Little Grandmother". Is this persona from the film "Atanarjuat, The Fast Runner" where the elder woman calls the young woman "little mother". Just wondering, Who knows what these "folks" are thinking.
Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: SouthwestSkeptic on March 05, 2011, 04:01:01 am
Check out what angelfish300 has been posting on this Youtube
Little Grandmother 2011 messages
StarSistersShow channel

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PYiiQB70XlY

She has several posts supposedly exposing Kiesha, her mom and Jennifer
 
"the story was built up as a way to teach new age teachings and spark interest in those who love Indian people and their ways. There was a discussion about this when a creative team yes a creative team got together. I was hired and sat in on those early meetings. Kiesha is a regular person who has new age beliefs but has no drop of Indian blood. Jennifer told me on many occasions that the Indian people can go X themselves. They do not? care about those people at all."
Angelfish300

"last part, she told people on the show in Sweden I think it was that her mother? lived on the reservation but that is an out and out lie. Please listen and believe me. This whole thing is a set up for money. Her mother used to be in on this and has tried to separate herself off Kiesha. Kiesha is not a spiritual person. She only wants this money. Jennifer may threaten to sue me. I am sure she will figure out who I am. Something must be done to stop the stealing. "
Angelfish300

" I signed up here to talk to anyone who cares. I used to work with Kiesha and Jennifer. I walked away from this job because of the inconsistencies with Kiesha's stories to me. I caught in her several lies about money.? I found out that Jennifer stole her father's ATM card and was withdrawing money off of it and supporting their lifestyle on it. Her father died and the family is now after her on this. Kiesha shut off the message board because the moderators there have complained "
AngelFishe300
 
Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: educatedindian on March 05, 2011, 05:12:51 am
This is the first claim I've seen of the mother's alleged involvement. The accounts I got from within the family shows they're pretty unanimous in disliking what Crowther does and her phony claims.

The accounts of protests by AIM Santa Barbara have some interesting details. Apparently, contrary to what Crowther and her circle claim, the Palm Springs event was not even close to sold out. The hall had less than 100, and about a dozen walked out during Crowther's speech. Crowther's partner/manager Jennifer Ferraro tried to turn people against the NDN protesters by screaming they were violent people coming to get them (the crowd or Crowther followers presumably). Security seemed genuinely intimidated and worried, but needn't have been. AIM SB had plenty of middle aged and elderly people, kids, women, all quietly passing out flyers and talking to people, plus drumming outside. So when people saw that AIM was not violent, they talked to them. Crowther also continually changed her story during her speech, alienating some of the crowd. There was even a person who broke down crying, so upset they were with Crowther.
Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: oyster on March 05, 2011, 02:54:22 pm
Hi from the UK Everybody!

Fresh devastating comments about Kiesha by Rainbowheart and Angelfish here:-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PYiiQB70XlY
Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Freija on March 05, 2011, 10:30:35 pm
Sorry, only in Swedish.
But this is National Swedish Radio, Channel 1.
Scroll half way down.

http://sverigesradio.se/sida/default.aspx?programid=2792


On the site:
Listen to a discussion about how the program ”Ingemarsson in Channel 1” probably was fooled when the American selfappointed shaman Kiesha Crowther was free to unchallenged market her cultlike movement “Tribe of many colours”. Crowther has no connection to Indian tribes and no Indian mother, which she has claimed.
 
“Profitable movement built on lies!”

Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: critter - a white non-ndn person on March 05, 2011, 11:04:16 pm
 ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D


Sorry, only in Swedish.
But this is National Swedish Radio, Channel 1.
Scroll half way down.

http://sverigesradio.se/sida/default.aspx?programid=2792


On the site:
Listen to a discussion about how the program ”Ingemarsson in Channel 1” probably was fooled when the American selfappointed shaman Kiesha Crowther was free to unchallenged market her cultlike movement “Tribe of many colours”. Crowther has no connection to Indian tribes and no Indian mother, which she has claimed.
 
“Profitable movement built on lies!”


Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: SouthwestSkeptic on March 06, 2011, 04:00:38 am
I’ve always suspected that the mother was involved in it. Just because she claims she has nothing to do with it doesn’t mean she’s telling the truth.

Me thinks the lady doth protest too much.

An interesting development: Some of Angelfish300’s comments have been removed from the video. There is an entire conversation going on in the comments section of this video between people who have dropped out of Kiesha’s group. They are giving all sorts of information about Kiesha and Jennifer and how they made up the Little Grandmother conversation. AngelFish300 was telling about how Jennifer took her father’s ATM card and drew out money without his permission just before he passed, but these comments were deleted.  Lunalas has joined the discussion and warned her not to let Kiesha know who she is. Angelfish300 also said  that someone named Peter Sterling has been sending her threatening letters. RainbowHeartA has also  joined the discussion. It seems she’s another of Kiesha’s victims who gave her money and was labeled as negative for asking questions. She has a Facebook page.

Here’s one of the recoverd delted comments from Youtube:

“I am seeing so many people who are going to get hurt when the truth sinks in. Kiesha closes up her boards, she tells Vicky Barton to keep a tight lid on anything controversial. They remove posts and tell everyone they are being in the negative and not in the heart. They mistreat their own "tribe". A woman named Rainbow told me that she donated ten thousand and was mistreated on the facebook group and she left and broke ties. I can put you into touch with her. This is real. "
Angelfish300

Here's some more recent stuff:

@lunalas My comments were removed but not by me. I received a threatening letter today by a Peter Sterling who is a friend of Kiesha and Jennifer. For those who are worried about this, they don't want to spend their money suing anyone. All they can do is threaten. Lunalas they do not have the big guns behind them that you think they have. She will go over to other countries all summer and try to make her money there. If people get the word out she won't stand a chance to rip off more.
Angelfish300 20 hours ago

•  @lunalas I was sitting in Kiesha's living room when they were on her laptop reading comments on youtube and Jennifer said F them and that they could go F themselves. Jennifer is a driving force behind some of this but she is into trouble with her own family for using her father's ATM card. BOA has her on camera taking money out in the middle of the night. I can tell you now that Kiesha is crumbling from the weight of this. If she gets protested in other countries she will completely lose it.
Angelfish300 20 hours ago

better make screen shots, the starsisters are deleting anything negative about Jennifer.

They're leaving up all the comments by NDNZ.
Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Yx Chebel Yax on March 06, 2011, 02:51:29 pm
Thank you Freija for your comment on the Swedish National Radio program  P1 " Ingemarsson" on the 28/10-2010.
Quote
Quote from: Freija on March 05, 2011, 11:30:35 pm
Sorry, only in Swedish.
But this is National Swedish Radio, Channel 1.
Scroll half way down.

http://sverigesradio.se/sida/default.aspx?programid=2792

On the site:
Listen to a discussion about how the program ”Ingemarsson in Channel 1” probably was fooled when the American selfappointed shaman Kiesha Crowther was free to unchallenged market her cultlike movement “Tribe of many colours”. Crowther has no connection to Indian tribes and no Indian mother, which she has claimed.
 
“Profitable movement built on lies!”


I have listened to the program about Kiesha and it was pure propaganda for her. But in the other program ” Published” a program that criticizes and analyzes the Media ( in Sweden) I have tried to make a brief summary on what Freija is referring to. And it is a discussion between Annika Banfield, the producer of the program about Kiesha and a person responsible for “Published”.

Annika Banfield is an author and film producer who has got contact with Native Americans (for several decades and made movies about them) has reported this program to be non-appropriate as it is propaganda for a self-elected shaman Kiesha Crowther.
The film producer Annika Banfield asks "How it is possible that a person is allowed to unrestrained/unchecked is permitted to advertise for her money-making business on Swedish National Radio, Channel 1, especially as it is based on lies? Where is the criticism she asks?

She expresses that many of her Native American friends are very upset about Kiesha Crowther and her activities, the frustration and pain she has provoked due to her lies of her origin and use of sacred regalia without any respect to the Native American traditions, making profit on pure lies.

And she says that we all could try to assist and help. We the Europeans have a responsibility. And media has a responsibility as well. The real Native Americans don't get their voice easily heard, get to be interviewed on TV or on the Radio but a fake shaman like Kiesha Crowther does. She gives an example, a friend of hers a Native American who had to play the flute in order to be interviewed. She has had a Head of a Native American tribe (awarded a peace price by the UN) and several other prominent Native Americans here and still it was difficult to get time and space in the Media.

She also says that "you can believe in what you want it's okay”  and she respects that.

Annika Banfield says she has been contacted by many people who belong to this “sect- like” group and that they have set up autogiros in order to transfer money to Kiesha and that they are worried. She says it is sufficient listen to Kiesha Crowther for five minutes to realize how wrong this is and that the thing of being appointed a shaman at the age of thirty.. is just to much..

Further in her contacts with the group members she has realized that you cannot criticize Kiesha, the leader, if you do so you get threatened of being sued, you cannot ask questions because then you get thrown out/banned from the group. And then you get to be called “dark ones”. It’s a terrible polarization of an elite group that she (Kiesha Crowther)has created, like a master race that is going to survive 2012 but those who have criticized her, mostly Native Americans, are going to be cleansed away 2012.

That was a very short summary of what was said. And there were a lot more..


Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Yx Chebel Yax on March 06, 2011, 08:41:00 pm
I wonder if anyone has noticed this:
Don Alejandro the head of the Mayan indigenous people says in one of his recent speaches on Youtube in Spanish (with English subtitle) that there will be no greater changes at all 2012.

So what to think of this folks....
https://sites.google.com/site/endofduality/en/end?attredirects=0

This is an interpretation of the Mayan Calendar created with highest appreaciation to Little Grandmother, the El Collective, Ian Xel Lungold. Dr. Carl Johan Calleman. It was created the 18th of February 2011.
If you go to the cellular underworld you'll find there names down below.

Their prediction is as follows very dramatic one for this year 2011

31/7 2011    disclosure of contact with extraterrestial species, first contact, masslandings and introduction of new technologies
18/8 2011    a collapse of the dept- and interest-based finacial system, end of industrial production and a fall of the old structure
5/9 2011     consciosness surpasses technology
23/9 2011    bliss
11/10 2011  development to conscious co-creation of existence and experience
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Defend the Sacred on March 06, 2011, 09:57:02 pm
They made lots of similar claims for 2010, none of which have happened, either.
Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: matt e on March 07, 2011, 03:55:28 am
they make the same claims the newage movement has been making for decades, none of which ever happened.
 what i would like to know, if all the people are so knowledgeable, and powerful, why don't they all get together and focus their power to actually do something besides talk?
Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: czech on March 07, 2011, 07:56:38 am
Quote
She will go over to other countries all summer and try to make her money there. If people get the word out she won't stand a chance to rip off more.

Quote
And she says that we all could try to assist and help. We the Europeans have a responsibility.

Thanks to NAFPS and AIM Southern California, Czech and Slovak people now have information available to them on who Kiesha Crowther is and what she actually does. Thank you all for sharing your knowledge and experience and for speaking out.
Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Saga on March 07, 2011, 12:23:34 pm
I've been writing in finnish pages as well to "educate" people about her and the AIM being involved in this too and posting links to nafps and the videos and AIM site and everywhere... I am focusing on keeping her out of Finland, we don't need frauds messing around in here. :)

And yep, those prophecies are the kind that seem to pop up every year. I could make my own, I'd say that something very meaningful happens around April-May this year, or even end part of this month. Everyone can pick their "meaningful" happenings then :P

I love it that Swedish radio made the show to expose her, because she seemed to be big hit around there...

Thank you for all your great work on this forum and thanks to AIM and all the other forums that spread information about the dangers of frauds and "false prophets" and cult movements. :)
Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: educatedindian on March 07, 2011, 01:54:13 pm

So what to think of this folks....
https://sites.google.com/site/endofduality/en/end?attredirects=0

This is an interpretation of the Mayan Calendar created with highest appreaciation to Little Grandmother, the El Collective, Ian Xel Lungold. Dr. Carl Johan Calleman. It was created the 18th of February 2011.
If you go to the cellular underworld you'll find there names down below.


That's actually pretty funny. They have prediction after prediction completely wrong. Wrong on predicting the founding of the US by a year. Wrong on predicting the start of French Revolution by more than a decade. Way, way off on predicting the start of European nations...by centuries.

Heck, you don't even have to know history to see how wrong they are. They got the date for 9-11 off by a year.

And what the heck "polarity is displayed" means is anybody's guess. You can display polarity right now just by showing a car battery.

Thanks to Annika for getting the newspaper to discuss how Crowther is a fraud. We are having quite a big effect. My best guess is her profit margin is cut in half or more. With any luck she can wind up like Holzwarth, marginalized and discredited, only daring to play a tiny number of venues where there won't be protests. It looks like she can't go to Europe without facing lots of questions and probably protests.
Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Autumn on March 07, 2011, 03:10:15 pm
What happened to the crystal?

http://www.facebook.com/kiesha.crowther

Autumn
Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Freija on March 07, 2011, 05:28:55 pm
Thanks to Annika for getting the newspaper to discuss how Crowther is a fraud. We are having quite a big effect. My best guess is her profit margin is cut in half or more. With any luck she can wind up like Holzwarth, marginalized and discredited, only daring to play a tiny number of venues where there won't be protests. It looks like she can't go to Europe without facing lots of questions and probably protests.

Thank you, Al :)
This was all thanks to AIM and other activists plus the people in Sweden organising the radio debate the other day. Not to mention all the people over here contacting me to tell their stories.
It shows more than ever how important it is to stand together and be vocal about abuse and injustice.  :)
Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: piya on March 07, 2011, 10:12:09 pm
And here is me thinking all this time she was genuine. Still looking forward to her coming to the UK
Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: nemesis on March 07, 2011, 11:09:07 pm
I am most definitely looking forward to Kiesha coming to the UK

I will do my best to ensure that she receives the kind of welcome she deserves

*evil laugh*
Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: SouthwestSkeptic on March 09, 2011, 02:10:33 am
Maybe you can team up with this guy -

DONT MIX YOUR SPIRITS.wmv on YouTube

http://is.gd/AfQjc3

His description reads:
"THIS VIDEO IS IN RESPONSE TO KIESHA CROWTHERS FORTHCOMMING VISIT TO UK, I INTEND TO CONTACT THE PEMBROOKSHIRE COUNTY COUNCIL AND THE HOME OFFICE TO GET THIS FRAUD OF THE MARKET, AND STOP USING AND SELLING NATIVE CULTURE IN HER WICKED HIPPY RELIGION"


Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: nemesis on March 09, 2011, 10:31:29 am
I love that guy's accent and his video :)

He seems as though he has his heart in the right place, but I won't be teaming up with him or anyone else.  I work on my own simply because some of the activism I am involved in carries some risks and I don't want to get kind, good hearted people like him into any problems.

It is probably for the best that Kiesha is dealt with from a few different fronts anyway.  The more people trying to expose her the better.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Defend the Sacred on March 17, 2011, 02:46:03 am
In order to keep this voluminous thread somewhat on-topic the Newage Video Tangent has been moved to Etcetera.

http://www.newagefraud.org/smf/index.php?topic=3252.0

Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: goozih on March 25, 2011, 08:19:00 am
She is heading to Australia in June! Is there anyone who could be warned of her invasion down under.
Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: secondsight on March 26, 2011, 09:57:59 pm
Noticed her fee is now 40.00 instead of 194.00...Maybe attendance is down?
Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: goozih on March 28, 2011, 01:18:00 am
Likely the sympathy angle draws a lot of donations. The crowd probably  fills Her Tin Cup every SHOW.
Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Superdog on March 28, 2011, 04:14:10 pm
Likely the sympathy angle draws a lot of donations. The crowd probably  fills Her Tin Cup every SHOW.

It's a different marketing strategy that's all...rather than one long conference she has a schedule of several small and short 1 1/12 hour shows scheduled at several locations.  Some locations are booked for more than one show per day.

It's a new market for her so they're sticking their toes in the water so to speak.  Not to mention she's changed her marketing altogether into an obvious pay to pray model that I think was the goal all along.  After copyrighting her "official" tribe of many colors she now charges a fee to join and be part of the tribe.  There's a guise that you can join for free, but free membership is extremely limited tempting you to join and becoming a full paying member.

Many small shows allow her to hit more people over a larger geographic area to sell "memberships" as well as tickets.  The tickets are kind of advertising for the "tribe" which is essentially now her cash cow.  The really sad part....she's still asking for donations.  Go figure.

So Australia....hope you're reading.  You've got a real winner(sic) coming your way.  She'll be selling "dreaming" pretty soon after her visit unless someone becomes aware of her and stops her before it starts.  Wish you luck.

Superdog
Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Yx Chebel Yax on March 28, 2011, 09:22:35 pm
Hi folks...
Just saw this on Facebook, on Shift of the Ages (SOTA):

 A person added a film from Youtube about Kiesha Crowther..think it was translated to Russian.
"We Are All Divine Creators Urgent Message from Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Here are some of the comments to this on the page

Quote

   
- This woman has mislead many. Make sure you watch this link too. http://www.frequency.com/video/kiesha-crowther-material-girl-lifestyles/28

- Thank you so much "Shift of The Ages"!!! I was impressed by that message... But obviously she is only a perfect actor :-(((
   
- Shift of the Ages (SOTA):
We wanted to stay out of this, but SOTA was more or less forced into addressing Kiesha Crowther's claims. Portions of Wandering Wolf's video messages were taken without permission and used out of context to build her credibility and garner support for her message and work. She also claimed to be a recognized member (or Wisdom Keeper) of the Continental Council of Indigenous Elders of the Americas (the underground Council Wandering Wolf is president of) and this is completely false. We’ve obviously received many questions about don Alejandro’s and SOTA’s association with her. Is she saying some inspiring and good things?... yes. Is some of the things she is saying truth?... perhaps? Has she intentionally mislead people? Without a doubt!

Love and respect to you all.......
Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Teacher on March 28, 2011, 11:57:41 pm
I didn't know she was around anymore until someone clued me into a shop in the area -- that I'll probably post in "research needed" in the next few weeks ...

She is going to be at The Prophets Conference -- and is taking a group to Egypt in October. 
Here is the write up about the Egypt conference:


SACRED PILGRIMAGE TO THE MAGICAL LAND OF EGYPT WITH LITTLE GRANDMOTHER
4-16 October 2011
"It is with great excitement and anticipation that I contemplate this upcoming pilgrimage to the sacred land of Egypt. As some of you may have heard me speak about, it is time on our planet now to gather together the like-minded and like-hearted to raise the frequency and heart vibration on Mother Earth. ... Egypt is magical and mystical and full of vibration and life. I am so excited to experience this place in the physical after being taught so much about it in the spirit realm. ... What an opportunity this is for not only me but for all those who will attend. Miracles are waiting to happen-- this is a promise!"



The following is the description of the itinerary and costs:
The Tour Includes:

    »
 Roundtrip airfare from JFK New York to Cairo on Egypt Air
 
    »
 5 stars deluxe accommodations throughout the tour
 
    »
 Deluxe Five Star Cruise to visit temples along the Nile
 
    »
 ALL meals (3 meals a day)
 
    »
 All entrance fees and ground transportation within Egypt
 
    »
 Private time in the Great Pyramid and Sphinx enclosure
 
    »
 Local Egyptologist
 
    »
 All domestic air within Egypt
 

    »
 Camel ride
 
    »
 Medical Travel insurance
 
    »
 Entrance visa to Egypt
 
    »
 Greeting at Cairo Airport, assisting through customs, and baggage claim
 
    »
 Some tips (temple guards, bus drivers, hotel porters, maids, tips for meals)
 
    »
 All taxes and surcharges
 


Not Included in tour price for Egypt: airfare to JFK, beverages with meals, tips for guides, walking-around money. If you arrive or depart other than with the group there will be additional transfer fees for being met at the airport, brought through customs and to the hotel, and for any extra accommodations beyond the duration of the tour. Extra transfers to or from the airport cost $45 per person each way. For couples it is $40 for each person each way.

      COSTS
•$5,965 with airfare from JFK to Cairo or $5,025 without airfare (prices are in US dollars)
•You may secure your place with a deposit of $1,000, with the balance due 5 February 2011.
•Prices are based on double occupancy. If you prefer a single room the cost for a single supplement is $940.
•To upgrade to business class on Egypt Air, contact us for costs.
•A 3% processing fee is added to credit card payments to cover the costs for that service.
REGISTER
(read cancellation policy below)

To pay by check - checks must be in US dollars and mailed to:
Guardian Travel
526 Redbird Court
Virginia Beach, VA 23451
Be sure to include all of your contact details along with "Sacred Pilgrimage to the Magical Land of Egypt"

To pay by bank transfer send an email to office@greatmystery.org for bank details.

To pay by credit card send an email to: Guardian@guardiantravel.com or call (1) 757-417-7458.   


REGISTRATION FORMS
You will need to download, read, sign, and return the following two forms:


Registration Form         Release of Liability Form

 

PASSPORTS AND VISAS
Passport: You must have a passport that is valid for at least 6 months after the date of departure. It is a good idea to take a photocopy of your passport with you in case the original one gets lost.

Visa: Most travelers obtain their Visa upon entry to Egypt (based on country of origin).



FOR MORE INFORMATION:
Call: (1) 505 796 4023 in the USA/Canada or (44) 020 8123 9958 (UK)
Email: Event Info

Cancellation Policy:
•Although it is unlikely, if the TRIP is cancelled, you will receive a full and complete refund.
•If YOU need to cancel your participation, you may:
•    a) transfer your registration to another person, or...
•    b) $1,000 is non-refundable. Partial refunds may be given prior to 60 days before departure.
•    c) No refund is given if cancellation is within 60 days of departure.
•send cancellation notice to The Prophets Conference
For more information:
email: Egypt 2011 Info


And finally -- her bio:

Sacred Pilgrimage to the Magical Land of Egypt
with Little Grandmother
4-16 October 2011




 Kiesha Crowther, also known as "Little Grandmother," was initiated as shaman at age 30 by a Native American elder and was told that her task was to be shaman and Wisdom Keeper of the “tribe of many colors.”

As a child she spent long periods of time alone in the wilderness, where she lived with and learned from the four-legged, one-legged, winged-ones and swimmers, as well as the star and stone people. Her young life was marked by many unusual experiences and abilities that she did not understand. As a child, she had been taught by the ancestors, grandmothers past, and Mother Earth, and was known for her ability to sense and communicate with wild animals and to see and work with energy.

Since being initiated on her path as shaman and Wisdom Keeper, Kiesha has begun to share teachings and to conduct ceremonies and healings for individuals and Mother Earth. She feels her responsibility to be carrying and communicating earth wisdom and the ancient knowledge for our current age. Toward this end, she has released videos of her talks, which are freely available on YouTube and which have been viewed by hundreds of thousands of people so far all over the globe. Her work as a Wisdom Keeper also includes the planting of sacred crystals in very specific locations around the world for the renewal and strengthening of Mother Earth's precious ley lines. Her powerful message emphasizes how to shift individual and planetary consciousness, how to live in the heart in right relationship with Mother Earth, and to remember who we are--THE GREAT I AM.

To learn more about Little Grandmother visit littlegrandmother.net.

Get to know and enjoy Little Grandmother with this short video clip www.youtube.com/watch?v=FFPu26BJreY.

Accompanying Little Grandmother will be the expert guide Mohammed Fayed of Guardian Travel and his team of excellent Egyptologists who have worked for many years with expeditions for the Edgar Cayce Association of Research and Enlightenment. They have also been the personal guides for Elizabeth Taylor, Princess Diana, The Grateful Dead, Shirley MacLaine, Ken Kesey, Leo Buscaglia, amongst many other dignitaries and celebrities.


Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: MsWilma on March 29, 2011, 05:11:49 am
Hi from Melbourne, Australia...what're you sending her down here for?  ::)
I've been following this thread since some beautiful people with all the best intentions in the world sent me the links to her Zurich talks, and she seemed a tad dodgy. So I googled her and found this site.
Some thoughts on her visiting Oz, after checking out her 'events' page:

1. $40 is cheaper than a massage, cheaper than a meditation weekend (unless you did a buddhist vipassana for free) cheaper than a reiki initiation and waaay cheaper than a ticket for entertainment from the USA (which is what she is if she was honest about it...)So she may get a large audience, who have been removed from all the controversy so far. And it will be harder to convince people she's out for money when she's not asking for so much. I also recall descriptions somewhere on this thread of Crowther charging a small amount for workshops in The Netherlands? Does that ring a bell for ayone else? So maybe it worked well for her there, and she's repeating her program here.

2. Crowther is using an australian aboriginal artist's commercial work on her site to advertise her workshop. As she's acknowleged the source of the painting on her site, she may well have permission to use the work. I've emailed the site in question to check, and I'll let you know what they say.

3.  She is very ambiguous about the locations of her workshops on her own site. She mentions Brisbane (city of 2 million people) and 'North' in Melbourne (there are hundreds of places with 'North' in their titles in Melbourne but no place called 'North'.) The other place, Tumbi Umbi is an interesting choice: it's a small town between Sydney and Newcastle and I'd never heard of it before. I can contact family in Sydney to find out more about it. My guess is that it's a small resort town as that coastline is fabulous, but I'm surprised that she hasnt headed further north to Byron Bay, where all the newagers come out to play. Any other Australians out there reading this who can shed some light on Tumbi Umbi?

4. I have no idea if anyone's posting fliers in cafes etc on the ground for Crowther, because I'm flat out with kids, husband, work and study, but so far, there is very little advertising on Australian websites for her visit. There are a number of sites and blogs linking to her talks, but none talking about her visits, except for this:
http://spiritualconnections.ning.com/xn/detail/6146729%3AEvent%3A9408
which is probably her Tumbi Umbi connection, since it's a central coast directory.
 The other links connected to this directory are a website and a facebook page:
http://www.spiritualconnectionscc.com/
http://www.facebook.com/Spiritual.Connections.Australia#!/Spiritual.Connections.Australia?sk=info
that facebook page (which is in the name of a Tracy Roberts) also references a Drunvalo Melchizidek, whom I recall reading about here at NAFPS as well....

5. It's a removed world here in Oz. I cant tell you how often I've heard white newagers quoting 'hopi' or 'mayan' prophecy like so many fairy stories. I can fire off some emails giving my opinion to the above websites, but it would be much more powerful if it came from ndns themselves. This might be too much to ask, but if anyone in the US has the time to put together a brief page of salient points, I would be happy to pass it along wherever I could. I know I could piece something together from the Salish elder's statements, the SOTA quotes, and Dr Carroll's article, but it would have more authority if it came from you yourselves. i am happy to provide any links that I can and to write emails supporting you.
Cheers!
Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: MsWilma on March 29, 2011, 05:52:32 am
Hi again.

To briefly explain what's happened:
Crowther has been using an image of a painting by an Australian Aboriginal artist, Malcolm Maloney Jagamarra, to advertise her Australian trip.
The painting is worth over $6000 Aus. The use of the image is protected by Aus copyright laws.
Commercial Australian indigenous art is one of the few industries where Australian aborigines see a decent profit. There is an Indigenous Art Code set up to protect the rights of aboriginal artists to fair trade.
I find it ironic that she may be running into even more trouble by appropriating commercial work...

Here is a copy of the email correspondence I have been having with Sabine Haider, Vice President of the Aus Indigenous Art Trade Assoc and Director of Central Art:

Dear Sabine Haider,

I am writing to you to alert you to the use of one of your artist's paintings on the website of 'Kiesha Crowther, Little Garandmother'. If she or her representatives have permission to use your images, I apologise unreservedly and ask you to ignore this email.
The reason I query whether she has permission to use the image is because she has previously misappropriated traditions from northern american indigenous cultures, and been the subject of their protests.

You can find your artist's (Malcolm Maloney Jagamarra) image on the following two links:

http://littlegrandmother.net/EVENTSCALENDAR.aspx

http://littlegrandmother.net/AUSTRALIANWORKSHOP.aspx

Again, if she has permission to use this image I apologise. Her history with indigenous cultures has led me to suspect she may not...

Regards,
Catherine


Dear Catherine

Thank you very much for the alert. NO permission has been granted.  Gee, this makes me mad.  Thank you once again. Hopefully the person will remove this immediately otherwise I will require to inform Viscopy.

Regards
Sabiné Haider
Director
Central Art
* Vice President - Australian Indigenous Art Trade Association
* Signatory to the Indigenous Code of Conduct

 

Dear Sabine,
thanks for letting me know.
I belong to a website called NewageFrauds and Plastic Shamans, whose aim is to protect indigenous cultures from misappropriation/exploitation.
We are collecting information about Crowther to raise awareness of her activities.
I havent mentioned the name of your artist or yourself on the forum, although I have stated that I suspect she has used an image without permission.
Is it alright with you if I make this information public?

regards,
Catherine


Dear Catherine
Please do. I work very closely with Copyright Australia and Aboriginal Artists Agency Anthony Wallis who is currently away overseas.  Anthony would know exactly what we should do. Please let me know if I can help or assist with getting the word out. Perhaps Art Trade can assist as well.   I have been so angry and even more so when one cannot contact the person.

Sabiné Haider
Director
Central Art
* Vice President - Australian Indigenous Art Trade Association
* Signatory to the Indigenous Code of Conduct


Dear Catherine
Here I am again requiring your help. I cannot find any contact details for this person. Apparently so busy she is unable to answer any emails. Can you help me.  
Regards
Sabiné Haider


Dear Sabine,
I wish I could give you contact details for Kiesha Crowther- I would imagine that there are a number of people trying to find her!
All I can tell you, is that in the past year, she has deeply offended various indigenous tribes in America, by claiming to be their 'shaman' and by offering her version of some of their most sacred ceremonies for sale. Following strong protests over the internet from Lakota people, and the publishing of official statements from the Elders of the Salish tribe and a Mayan Elder, and following the circulation of an article written by a Dr Carroll on her fraudulence, she removed her claims re her 'indian connection' from her website. Chapters of the AIM (American Indian Movement) have recently been protesting her appearances in the USA. I suspect that she hopes to find an audience removed from all of this in Australia.
 Regarding her website, Crowther has removed material that she had no right to in the past, once it got too 'hot'. I would hope that if she receives emails from yourself, on behalf of your agencies and referring to Copyright Australia, she would remove the image immediately. If not, I'm not sure how one would find her- unless you were able to trace her once she got to Australia in June.
I'll put details of my correspondence with you on the NAFPS (NewAgeFrauds and Plastic Shamans) website. It may be that someone has further ideas re action you can take.
You can find us at http://www.newagefraud.org/smf/index.php
kind regards
Catherine

ps- I originally signed my full name to these emails. If anyone feels that they need to know my full name, they are welcome to contact me  :)
Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: MsWilma on March 29, 2011, 08:37:27 am
ps.
The artist whose work Crowther has been helping herself to, is from Central Australia.
Her tour is taking in the East Coast. Hundreds, maybe thousands of kilometres away. Nowhere near Central.
I think that there are over 250 different tribes in Australia.
Just sayin...
Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: MsWilma on March 29, 2011, 10:20:04 am
 :o sorry mods; I've doubled a post here without meaning to. Please delete this!

Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: secondsight on March 29, 2011, 06:21:21 pm
Welcome Ms Wilma

I checked KC site and the artist's work has been taken down.

Thanks to you:)

All that $$$ and too cheap to use an i stock image- Geez!

SS
Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: nemesis on March 29, 2011, 09:07:44 pm
I wonder if anyone could help me with something?

I don't want to give too much away but I'm working on a few ways forward to stop Kiesha and one thing that would be really, really helpful, if anyone has the time to do it, would be to have a brief summary of all the fraudulent / criminal activities that Kiesha, her girlfriend and associates have been involved in; the credit card fraud, the false claims begging for money, everything.  Ideally this would include the posts from facebook where people describe being ripped off and hassled for money by Kiesha's handlers.

While I appreciate, of course, the importance of the issues regarding selling ceremony and cultural appropriation, I feel that in order to really get things moving in other territories it may be most effective to concentrate on information that shows that the TOMC is one big money making scam and to provide clear information as to how it works.

Of course including information re the statements / declarations of war and videos from the tribal elders and other NDN people will be important as supporting documents but the people I have in mind contacting will be interested initially in the criminality and scamming angles in the 1st instance. 

I am so very behind schedule with many tasks that I just don't have time to put something together at the moment, but if I can get some help with it I have some good contacts to send this stuff to who will pay attention providing that the main focus is on criminality and scamming.

I hope it's OK to ask :)

Also welcome Ms Wilma and thank you for your efforts to help stop Kiesha, I am sure that many people here appreciate it.

Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: matt e on April 04, 2011, 09:14:46 pm
there are also vids of her on daily motion http://www.dailymotion.com/relevance/search/kiesha%20crowther

i would be happy to add videos to my acct. if anyone who has some up want to give me permisson wants to give me permission.

http://www.dailymotion.com/relevance/search/kiesha%20crowther

forgot the daily motion link
Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: heartoftruthandlight on April 06, 2011, 08:31:08 pm
grrrr her going down under really gets my panties in a bundle cuz that's one of my homelands and I will do whatever it takes to get the word out.

I have contacted an aboriginal faciliator and contactee to a number of elders within the Yilema area and into the north regions. All I pray is that she can send out the information to the people who can do something about it.

I have also found out the website organization 'Federation of Light' is supporting her tour. This is the ad:

  Remembering Who We Are:
Steps to Co-Creating a New Earth
 
NSW Central Coast at Tumbi Umbi:
Sunday June 5, 2011
Workshop One:  10am-12:30pm
Workshop Two:  2pm-4:30pm
In her first visit to Australia, shaman and Wisdom Keeper Little Grandmother will share keys to shifting individual awareness and living from the heart for the coming times—based on teachings given to her directly by the ancestors and Mother Earth.  She will speak on how we can remember who we are as the “Great I AM”, changing our relationship to the earth, ourselves and each other, and thus transforming our world.   She will share specific practices and techniques of working with earth energy, increasing our energetic frequency, and information that she has been given specifically for the people of this land at this time
AUSTRALIA WORKSHOPS
 
NSW Central Coast  Sunday June 5, 2011 at Tumbi Umbi

Brisbane:  Thursday June 9, 2011
 
Melbourne:  Saturday June 11, 2011
 
http://littlegrandmother.net/default.aspx

I have also enlisted the help of fellow australians to spread the word to as many groups to avoid and or protest her tour.
a hui ho


Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: heartoftruthandlight on April 06, 2011, 08:33:52 pm
Nemisis,

you mention getting info regarding her criminal activities together. i am unaware of the credit card issue, when and where did that happen. Is this tied into one of the earliest request for refunds from an 'awakened' tomc member? just wondering. anyone offered to pull some info together yet?

thanks for your continued help and stopping this force of darkness
Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Epiphany on April 07, 2011, 12:13:27 am
From Kiesha's website: Official Statement Regarding Native American Issues http://littlegrandmother.net/NEWURGENTMESSAGE.aspx (http://littlegrandmother.net/NEWURGENTMESSAGE.aspx)

Sounds like a lot of excuses that don't really make sense. This part reads like an attempt to glean sympathy and pity:

Quote
And, despite her heritage, she will conduct all work without Native American regalia, Native American sacred implements or specific rituals.


Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: educatedindian on April 07, 2011, 12:29:16 pm
Not only that, it's simply a lie. Her latest official statement shows her using just such Native items.
http://littlegrandmother.net/NEWMESSAGEAPRIL2011.aspx

And of course her claim of Native ancestry is denied even by her own mother and sisters. All the documentary evidence shows it's false. All her ancestors came from England.

That latest message has some even crazier claims.

"For so long i have been talking about those who live within the earth, and they are who keep one of the main crystal skulls.. they will come to the surface at the time of *change* .. these people in South America are only a very small group of those who have been found.. there are many living within the earth. This is the most amazing time to be alive... and the ancient truths will come to the surface!"

IOW, expect an invasion of the mole people? Gnomes who keep crystal skulls? ::)

Here's something that may be of interest. Besides the organizing that's being vs her trips to Australia and England, here's another chance to call her out on her lies. Don't know if they'll allow questions live, but we can try.

------
http://littlegrandmother.net/EVENTSCALENDAR.aspx
Saturday, April 16, 1:00-2:30PM Mountain Daylight Time, Little Grandmother returns to Rainbow Visions Talk Show to answer your questions LIVE.  If you have a question you'd like to submit before the show, click here."

------
ETA: I went to the link and posted these questions. I did so using my own name. I doubt she'll answer them, but want everyone to know they were asked. If you decide to ask any, post them here also. I don't recommend leaving your real email address though.


On the upcoming web broadcast, will the show allow live questions?

If not, will Ms. Crowther give straight answers to the following questions?

Will Ms. Crowther finally admit she is NOT Native, as her own mother and sisters admit and have been urging her to admit for years?

Will Ms. Crowther finally admit she does NOT have the endorsement of any Native elders?

Will Ms. Crowther apologize to the Salish elders, Don Alejandro, Sammi elders in Sweden, and Tibetan monks that she all falsely claimed to have the endorsement of?

Will Ms. Crowther make a full accounting of how much money she makes off her activities, and how much she expects to make?

Obviously it is enough money to buy or rent a home valued at more than $350,000, and drive an expensive car. Previously Ms. Crowther was so broke she declared bankruptcy TWICE in less than three years.

Is the money from Ms. Crowther's followers going to pay off her bad debts and expensive tastes? How does she justify this? Why does she not give money to charity, environmental causes, or especially to help with poverty on the Indian reservation she supposedly has relatives on?

Will Ms. Crowther and her inner circle pay reparations to the Salish? After all, if not for the false claims about being chosen by the Salish, few would have heard of her nor pay any attention or money to her.

Will Ms. Crowther give refunds to all her exfollowers who ask?

If not, why not?

Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Autumn on April 18, 2011, 05:56:05 pm

Did anyone listen to the Rainbow Visions interview?  I just listened to it.  She did mention you a lot, Al, and SHE LOVES YOU, in spite of the LIES you have written about her.  ::) ::) ::)  I definitely got the impression that she thought you opened this forum just to attack her!  (This forum has been running a lot, lot longer than hers did and is still going)  Interesting how they talked about how the internet can be good, but then it can be bad.  PEOPLE WILL JUST BELIEVE ANYTHING THEY READ ON THE INTERNET!!!  So, you can put YouTube videos out there and not expect them to be questioned.  If you question them, then the internet is bad.

I thought the interviewer was awful.  Aren't they supposed to remain impartial?  But maybe that is just with dreaded "journalists". 

All I can say is, she is good!  Poor Kiesha!  So misunderstood and such a martyr.  She reminds me of Sarah Palin.  Nothing stops her and nothing gets her down.  She is even going to speak at Findhorn, Scotland, in 2012!  I thought they had better taste than that.

Does anyone else know anything about the Mexico plasma people who were living underground and who have come to the surface?  I would love to learn more about that.

Autumn

Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother" Plasma People
Post by: AlaskaGrl on April 19, 2011, 02:10:02 am
Does anyone else know anything about the Mexico plasma people who were living underground and who have come to the surface?  I would love to learn more about that.

Autumn   

Hi Autumn !

hmm the Plasma People...   google on over to http://tinyurl.com/4xbyqw8   from Nov 23, 2010
"Drunvalo on Ascension, Earth Changes, Obama, and the “Plasma Beings”: Two Important Videos"

"""2010 November 23
tags: Drunvalo Melchizedek, Plasma Beings of Inner Earth
by Steve Beckow

 

"""Drunvalo has given an interview to a French Web.TV reporter named Lillou Mace which is absolutely remarkable. It’s a must see."""

""First Video

The first video (which is really Part Two) is a complete discussion of what is happening now, the history of our relations with ETs, Ascension, our capabilities, what’s happening with our DNA, the Earth’s consciousness grid, Indigos and Crystals, and so on. He reviews what happened with the Greys and Anunnaki and then describes how they were excluded when a new assortment of benevolent ETs arrived. He says that the Greys were actually bent on eliminating humans from Earth but were thwarted. Apparently our explosion of nuclear bombs destroyed hundreds of planets belonging to the Greys.

He tells us that the universe is watching our Ascension. He says that we have already “made it” and that it doesn’t depend on our knowing anything about Ascension or the ETs, etc. He predicts the pole shift that we’ve heard so much about.

Drunvalo says Ascension won’t necessarily happen on Dec. 21, 2012, but within a window that extends from 2007 to 2015. Of course his information on some of these points differs from that of Matthew and SaLuSa. I’m simply holding the whole thing in my consciousness tentatively. I consider Drunvalo to be a very credible witness so I’m happy to hold the whole of the story in my mind without knowing which version is true. In other words, the dissonance does not bother me.""""

"""Second Video

In what is really Part One in the series, which I recommend viewing second, he discusses an Inner-Earth race of beings, whom he calls “plasma beings,” have been making their presence known over the last few years. They live in the lava region of the Inner Earth, in cities that exist within vast geodes. He says they will become very important to us in the months ahead.""""

"""""They appeared frequently in Mexico and have been in contact with the Mexican government. They asked an official of the Mexican government to contact Drunvalo and invite him and other people to come to their Inner-Earth locale, which Drunvalo did on three subsequent occasions. He went along with 99 other people.

I’m going to skip ahead now and suggest that everyone view at least the last six minutes of the video -- that is, from the 39-min. mark on -- in which Drunvalo says that President Obama has struck a committee to investigate ETs and ITs (Intraterrestrial beings?). He says that the President is very much aware of the “plasma beings” and interested in them.

He says that once the Earth’s electromagnetic field goes to zero we will have two to three weeks before the world changes very quickly. If we are connected to the Earth, it won’t matter if the hills and mountains go up and down; we’ll be protected. All that is necessary is that we relate from the heart (Vilma).

He goes on to give a good synopsis of the Ascension process as far as he’s aware of it. He describes the capabilities we’ll have after Ascension.

Evidently these plasma beings lived on the surface of the Earth a million years ago and went inside to escape the dangers that presented themselves on the surface.

After appearing numerous times over Mexico, the plasma beings are now starting to appear near the Four Corners area (Niara) and more recently around France. They are not shy and they are definitely here to assist us. They are not extraterrestrials nor does Drunvalo consider them human. But they are higher beings with staunch integrity.

To the reader who asked what orbs were, Drunvalo tells us here that they are living beings. Drunvalo also describes a journey that he took to the plasma beings’ city within the Earth’s lava region. Drunvalo says he approached people from Star Trek to come with him and video the experience and they accepted.

Apparently the plasma beings are not at all shy of publicity. Pope John Paul is alleged to have made his famous statement that not all ETs are bad based on his knowledge of the plasma beings, whom he was quite enthusiastic about. Pope John Paul was later assassinated for having determined to remove the dark Freemasons from the higher echelons of the Church. He was dead within 24 hours of confessing his intention to his secretary.

The interviewer, Lillou Mace, is quite intrusive. You can see she’s often not listening to Drunvalo but formulating her next question. She interrupts him way too often. Good example of what not to do when interviewing.

For those not familiar with Drunvalo, it’s been said (I have no idea whether the allegation is true or not) that he is a “Melchizedek,” which is a being who has completed his experience of all the dimensions associated with our evolutionary cycle. He has come to Earth as an ordinary human being to help us with Ascension. He’s a very humble and knowledgeable man. When I meet people who don’t know anything about the 2012 scenario and I want to introduce them to it, I show them a video of Drunvalo.mmmI consider these two videos to be among the most significant videos out there at the moment. Definitely keepers.""""


Linda.


Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Autumn on April 19, 2011, 04:47:08 am
Thanks for the information.  That is where Kiesha got her ideas.  I think she has picked up a lot of things from Drunvalo, plus a number of other individuals.

Autumn
Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: czech on April 19, 2011, 06:24:34 am
Just in case someone is not familiar with this name, here is a thread on Drunvalo Melchizedek:
http://www.newagefraud.org/smf/index.php?topic=2732.0
Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Tberri on April 26, 2011, 10:54:12 pm
Okie-Doakie then....

Both are extreme frauds....so what can be done??
just sayin....

Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: educatedindian on April 27, 2011, 07:33:46 pm

Did anyone listen to the Rainbow Visions interview?  I just listened to it.  She did mention you a lot, Al, and SHE LOVES YOU, in spite of the LIES you have written about her.  ::) ::) ::) 


A bit late responding, but I've been at a history conference.

I take it she avoided at all costs actually answering any genuine questions.

I'm also pretty sure her claim of "loving" me rang phony. Probably sounded more like "I want to appear above all of this, so I'll pretend to not let on how infuriated and angry I am." Kind of like how Sarah Palin talks about her critics.

If there's a transcript of that interview might be worth it to take it apart piece by piece, count up her lies yet again.

A source close to Crowther's family contacted me. All the stories about Crowther/Kreps as a lonely child spending most of her time in the words? Apparently it's ripped off almost word for word from the Book of Mormon.
Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Autumn on April 27, 2011, 08:57:16 pm
Yes, her "love" was phony and of the Sarah Palin "I am bigger than this" type.

I don't know of a transcript of the interview unless one shows up on her website sometime.

In the interview, they discussed how interesting it was that Betsey Lewis had been talking about Kiesha Crowther in the book she wrote under the name Jane B. Lewis, only she really didn't know it when she wrote the book:  http://betseylewis.com/Books.aspx  (To me, I think it most likely that Kiesha took the story of her childhood from Betsey Lewis, as she takes so many other stories from others--it is a script that she is acting out).

When I talked about how invested Betsey was in Little Grandmother in the interview, I really did not know the half of it.  Notice the B. Lewis at the bottom of LG's website.  Also, notice the same B. Lewis at the bottom of the above listed website.  Betsey Lewis is not an impartial participant and she certainly was not an impartial interviewer.

Autumn

Correction to the above post:  By mistake, I listened to the interview from a year ago prior to listening to the most recent one (too much LG!!) and that is the interview where they discussed how much Kiesha's history matched the story in the book.
Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Tberri on April 30, 2011, 02:04:08 am
So the woman has a borderline personality disorder that she's demonstrated by re-inventing her childhood. Also a "polished" con artist...besides getting the word out regarding her fraudlent behavior, was there a game plan??

ps...HI! Educated Indian...been awhile since I visited....not just "trolling thru!!" LOL!!!
 ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Freija on April 30, 2011, 08:41:58 am
Here´s the interview:

http://www.blogtalkradio.com/rainbowvisions/2011/04/16/little-grandmother-answers-your-questions

Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Defend the Sacred on April 30, 2011, 06:04:42 pm
Okie-Doakie then....

Both are extreme frauds....so what can be done??
just sayin....

Tberri, through a variety of methods people are educating those she would prey on. Native people have held protests at her appearances. More protests are being planned

Many of the people who fall for frauds and exploiters never do even the tiniest bit of research before they drink the Koolaid. When AIM Santa Barbara protested one of Crowther's presentations, they encountered newager after newager who had no idea that Crowther is not Native. Things that are totally obvious to those of us who participate in this forum had never even occurred to these pay-to-pray, non-Native people.

As her lies have been exposed, Crowther has changed her backstory a number of times now. Many of her followers have deserted her as they've seen this, and as word is out, fewer will fall for her con game in the future. There will always be some newagers who are so indiscriminate about the truth that they won't care that she's a liar, as long as it "feels right" to them. Those types... I'm not sure what we can do about them. They really live in their own world. They follow the frauds unless and until it goes very, very bad, such as with people dying in James Ray's deathlodge. Even that won't dissuade some of them.
Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: dabosijigwokush on May 04, 2011, 02:24:02 am
she is complaining about this sight and has a new nation as family

Kiesha’s maternal side of the family is Sioux and Salish, and comes from the Flathead Reservation in Montana

http://thefederationoflight.ning.com/group/thegospeloftheredman/forum/topics/shaman-kiesha-crowther-little
Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Freija on May 04, 2011, 07:44:25 am
she is complaining about this sight and has a new nation as family

Kiesha’s maternal side of the family is Sioux and Salish, and comes from the Flathead Reservation in Montana

http://thefederationoflight.ning.com/group/thegospeloftheredman/forum/topics/shaman-kiesha-crowther-little

Seems like it´s just a devoted follower copying whatever she can find from YouTube and Kiesha´s site.

(That page was a bit too much for my eyes....)   :)
Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Autumn on May 04, 2011, 04:15:23 pm
I agree.  It is very hard to read.  As you say, it is obviously a devoted follower copying the "script" from LG's videos or website.

This is what was at the very top of the screen which was almost impossible to pick up (at least for my eyesight):

THE FEDERATION OF LIGHT

IN GRATITUDE FOR BLOSSOM GOODCHILD DIRECT VOICE MEDIUM OF WHITE CLOUD


Does anyone know more about Blossom Goodchild who is the direct voice medium of White Cloud??



Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Defend the Sacred on May 04, 2011, 06:18:10 pm
she is complaining about this sight and has a new nation as family

Kiesha’s maternal side of the family is Sioux and Salish, and comes from the Flathead Reservation in Montana

http://thefederationoflight.ning.com/group/thegospeloftheredman/forum/topics/shaman-kiesha-crowther-little

Even Kiesha has stopped making that claim. At least officially, at least in public. But since she never publicly admitted she lied, never made amends, never took down the videos where she makes those false claims, of course those who don't know any better will continue to repeat her lies. I think Kiesha counts on the fact the confused or uninformed will continue to spread the earlier version of her ever-changing history.

After all, she tells them over and over to not think for themselves. That any fiction is good if it "feels right".

A reasonably attractive young woman gazes into the camera and intones, "I love you. You are my family." and the lonely and gullible feel an emotional response. Then rational people tell them they've been lied to, that they're being used, but some prefer to be loyal to that initial emotional imprint, even when they've been given enough information to know better. They've chosen not to think. 
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Tberri on May 04, 2011, 06:35:13 pm
Okie-Doakie then....

Both are extreme frauds....so what can be done??
just sayin....

Tberri, through a variety of methods people are educating those she would prey on. Native people have held protests at her appearances. More protests are being planned

Many of the people who fall for frauds and exploiters never do even the tiniest bit of research before they drink the Koolaid. When AIM Santa Barbara protested one of Crowther's presentations, they encountered newager after newager who had no idea that Crowther is not Native. Things that are totally obvious to those of us who participate in this forum had never even occurred to these pay-to-pray, non-Native people.

As her lies have been exposed, Crowther has changed her backstory a number of times now. Many of her followers have deserted her as they've seen this, and as word is out, fewer will fall for her con game in the future. There will always be some newagers who are so indiscriminate about the truth that they won't care that she's a liar, as long as it "feels right" to them. Those types... I'm not sure what we can do about them. They really live in their own world. They follow the frauds unless and until it goes very, very bad, such as with people dying in James Ray's deathlodge. Even that won't dissuade some of them.


Thanks for the reply!
I had success with contacting the reserve someone claimed to be a member of & getting them to send a "cease & desist" letter registered mail...if someone could do the same with Kiesha? Of course it would help to get a copy to hand out at her events....LOL!!
Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Autumn on May 15, 2011, 12:18:51 am

This is an interesting video I just came across today but it is from February 2011.  It seems to say it all, doesn't it?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zORlY_BKtNg

You may not want to take the time to watch the 20 minute video, but try to read the video comments if you can.


Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: secondsight on May 23, 2011, 10:09:40 pm
Greetings

Just noticed on LG's ever changing bio that she communicates with teh " Four legged, tow legged and the one legged'.

Excuse me, but what is one legged? LOL!

Second sight
Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: SouthwestSkeptic on May 25, 2011, 02:54:45 am
That would be the monopods: clams gastropods and snails.  They are very sacred, very evolved.

I guess you’re just not holy enough to have this important wisdom revealed to you  from the aliens.

Clams resonate with sham-ons as knowledgeable about all things spitchul as Kie$ha is because they wear their  anus and sex organs protruding from the side of their necks. They get around on one big foot where there chest and chin should be.

http://is.gd/pU2f8G

L Ron Hubbard also had some deep secret knowledge about clams that is about as believable and profound as Kie$ha’s teachings are.

http://www.xenu.net/clam_faq.html

Maybe Kie$ha got her sacred knowledge of the “one-footed” from $cientology?


 ;)Rose
Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: secondsight on May 25, 2011, 04:24:33 am
Hi Southwest!

Well, now! I actually did learn something from Kie$ha, I guess!!! ( Wink!)

Guess I was absent or like you said did not qualify for the special alien talk about the one legged. Ha-ha!

How interesting that shame ons are into the clams with external sex organs....

Thanks for the explanation and the links.

Second Sight


Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Autumn on May 26, 2011, 12:27:46 am
Interesting -- No two-legged --What a Shame!

"As a child, she spent long periods of time alone in the wilderness, where she lived with and learned from the four-legged, one-legged, winged-ones and swimmers, as well as the star and stone people. Her young life was marked by many unusual experiences and abilities that she did not understand. As a child, she had been taught by the ancestors, grandmothers past, and Mother Earth, and was known for her ability to sense and communicate with wild animals and to see and work with energy."

Oh well, only in Kiesha's world. ;D ;D ;D

Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: AlaskaGrl on May 26, 2011, 12:47:14 am
That would be the monopods: clams gastropods and snails.  They are very sacred, very evolved.

Clams resonate with sham-ons as knowledgeable about all things spitchul as Kie$ha is because they wear their  anus and sex organs protruding from the side of their necks. They get around on one big foot where there chest and chin should be.


This "resonates" as very Monty Python-ish to me.  I can see this thing floating around the screen to their opening music...
Guess I too am definitely not evolved LOL.   
Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: secondsight on May 26, 2011, 03:58:20 am
Greetings,

Now... I must search online for the one legged with the outer sex organs and one foot! What a visual.

Kiesha's World ... could make a good reality show for TV?

On the side note of her interview on Rainbow Visions -  Betsy and Kiesha agreed that they "knew the owner of this site was listening."

As if there are not other things to do on that day. Ha.

She also claimed she is renting her new home and makes little profit after travel expenses, she never left her family behind , blah, blah, blah.

 

Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: secondsight on May 27, 2011, 05:22:55 pm

Just noticed that Kiesha will be part of an Elders Board for the Topanga Film Festival in California. ( Events Page on here site)

She will speak along with someone known as Chief Golden Light Eagle.

Anyone know of him?

Might this be a location for passing out flyers about Kiesha ?



Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: AlaskaGrl on May 27, 2011, 07:46:20 pm

Just noticed that Kiesha will be part of an Elders Board for the Topanga Film Festival in California. ( Events Page on here site)

She will speak along with someone known as Chief Golden Light Eagle.

Anyone know of him?

Might this be a location for passing out flyers about Kiesha ?

+++++++++

There is quite a bit about Chief Golden Light Eagle online as well as on YouTube where there are numerous Star knowledge vids -
if you can handle watching them... It's not even good entertainment, more like torture.

Chief Golden Light Eagle is mentioned here on NAFPS
http://www.newagefraud.org/smf/index.php?topic=2752.0

Chief Golden Light Eagle   http://youtu.be/iOE_3shHUxo   usually in full regalia here on YouTube.  
and yes, excruciatingly BAD video as previously mentioned on NAFPS.  He has apparently changed his name
""Standing Elk / Chief Golden Eagle has apparently changed his name to "Chief Golden Light Eagle"  
IMHO The name change did not help...

Here he is is with "bear cloud"   http://www.starknowledgetv.com/
From the above StarKnowledge link it is stated:


"""Chief Golden Light Eagle is a member of the Ihunktowan Dakota Nation.  His blood line is Lakota, Dakota, Nakota and French.  He is one of seven Sundance Chiefs for the Yankton Sioux Ihunktowan Nakota Sungdeska Sapa  Tiospaye.  He co-authored four books titled, "MAKA WICAHPI WICOHAN", "ANPAO WICAHPI WICOHAN", "IKTOMI WICAHPI WICOHAN", and "CAN WAKAN WICOHAN".  The MAKA WICAHPI WICOHAN manual was inducted into the Smithsonian Institution during a formal ceremony on September 26, 1999 and the manual was also donated to the A.R.E. Library on September 22, 2002."""""


Might as well add   This is the MAKA WICAHPI WICOHAN manual mentioned above which was inducted into the Smithsonian Institution during a formal ceremony on September 26, 1999   It is available online as a .pdf file see  http://www.starknowledgetv.com/uploads/4/5/3/0/4530825/complete_maka.pdf

This is the link for the Topanga FIlm Festival... http://www.topangafilmfestival.com/

These are the people to contact who are involved with the Film Festival:

http://www.topangafilmfestival.com/about/our-team



Linda.

Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Freija on May 27, 2011, 09:45:47 pm
Interesting....
There is still time to submit our film, Spirits for Sale....hrm.....  ;) ;D ;D

Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Autumn on May 27, 2011, 11:55:39 pm
Looks like Kiesha will be in good company -- birds of a feather. . . . :P :P :P
Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Saga on May 30, 2011, 09:29:10 am
...
Might as well add   This is the MAKA WICAHPI WICOHAN manual mentioned above which was inducted into the Smithsonian Institution during a formal ceremony on September 26, 1999   It is available online as a .pdf file see  http://www.starknowledgetv.com/uploads/4/5/3/0/4530825/complete_maka.pdf

This is the link for the Topanga FIlm Festival... http://www.topangafilmfestival.com/

These are the people to contact who are involved with the Film Festival:

http://www.topangafilmfestival.com/about/our-team



Linda.



Omg, I checked the start of the "manual"... What the hell has galactic federation, boddhisattvas etc, to do with native americans? :D I mean, if someone truly believe that this guy is for real and bringing forth some ancient knowledge, some insanity check is in order.

These things aren't more ancient than from 1970s, or maybe 1990s or even 2000, but ofc the thought pattern is the same as it has always been. :p I seriously need to cancel my internet connection before I kill myself reading that crap... more of the "believe in this and you will be better than anyone else and you will be saved, while others get what they deserve (death/hell/torture)". No wonder world is in this shape at the moment, people only care about "knowing more" or "being better" than others and not the real problems. But hey, why to help anyone that thinks different than you, that would be bad, it would mean that there still is diversity in the world and you can't go dancing around and everyone agrees with you. Why would anyone want to live in harmony with everyone else and just try to get along and accept that there are many kinds of people, when you can try to get the misfits thrown out or at least fantasize that they get killed, even those in the family, who are trying to tell you that you are, just possibly, going in the wrong way when you don't work for the world but against it.

Oh Sorry, I didn't read that much in the manual btw, only some headlines. :p Just poured in all the old frustration to people who just don't care, even tho they talk about things like love and nurture endlessly.
Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Superdog on May 30, 2011, 03:41:12 pm
The claim about MAKA WICAHPI WICOHAN being "inducted" into the Smithsonian is definitely suspect.  I see it over and over again posted in various sites that have advertisements for this guy, but when you check the Smithsonian's website....there's nothing.

It's an outrageous claim that is so vague that it's easy to convince someone it's true.  The biggest clue for me that it's probably bs is the use of the word "inducted".   The Smithsonian is not a Hall of Fame.  There is no award given for them adding something to the collection that has your name attached to it.  It's a museum, plain and simple.  I know all kinds of people who have donated items that appear in various collections with the Smithsonian....none of these items were "inducted."

Chief Golden Eagle Light/Standing Elk (he's got one more name he uses too..just can't think of it) is full of it.  In reading through it, what you really have is a mish mash of all sorts of religion/philosophies all together in one book being interpreted to fit his narrative.  Not a lot of real knowledge there.  We're talking Buddhism/Daoism/Christianity/Judaism/Hinduism/etc etc etc....just about anything that can be interpreted as "spiritual" along with tons of New Age philosophies all smashed together to try and look like they belong together.....he doesn't do a very good of it either, but it takes actual knowledge of these philosophies to be able to recognize it.  It's almost comedic...as he introduces topics such as Krishna he attempts to introduce them in the first person as if Krishna is speaking directly to you....however Krishna doesn't seem to understand what they are talking about....at least in the pen of this guy.  This info might be for beneficial in Standing Elk's/Golden Eagle's own thread, but it goes to show you who Crowther is attaching herself to now.  She tried using the names of real people and has been shot down embarrassingly so....now it's time to attach to the fakes.....some people believe in them after all......

Superdog
Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: JM on June 04, 2011, 01:03:30 pm
Looks like she still is very busy....
Just saw this on a facebook page,  dont know if i can post their comments so heres the link, if you scroll down a bit.
She is in UK (Glastonbury ) on the 30th of this month and other places right now.
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=297712141315&v=wall
Not been here for a while, whats happened to the forum? I can only see a type like page not the headed forum that used to be here with the index?
Non  of this Keisha stuff surprises me that no ones actually taking note of the deception, as i watch things in our world happening and being ignored and the more resistance given the more power it seems they get in the way of back up and followers etc.
Kind regards
JM
Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Freija on June 30, 2011, 07:29:50 am
Some people have made their way to Glastonbury for a peaceful protest today.
Wishing everyone good luck and hope it turns out well!!
Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: educatedindian on July 15, 2011, 02:52:33 pm
Her latest event promoted on Facebook, ceremony selling for 40-205 euros. German followed by Babelfish translation.

------------
Bei ihrem ersten Besuch in Österreich wird die Schamanin und Weisheitsbewahrerin „Little Grandmother“ die Schlüssel zur Veränderung des individuellen Bewusstseins beschreiben. - Sie wird zeigen, wie ein Leben aus dem Herzen für die kommenden Zeiten möglich wird – beruhend auf den Unterweisungen, die sie direkt von den Vorfahren und Mutter Erde erhalten hat. Little Grandmother wird darüber sprechen, wie wir uns daran erinnern kö...nnen, wer wir wirklich sind, nämlich das „Große ICH BIN“, und wie eine Veränderung unserer Beziehung zu Mutter Erde, zu uns selbst und zueinander unsere gesamte Welt transformiert. Sie wird bestimmte Anwendungen und Techniken der Arbeit mit Erdenergien zeigen, zwecks Erhöhung der eigenen energetischen Schwingung, und Informationen übermitteln, die ihr speziell für die Menschen dieses Landes in dieser Zeit gegeben wurden.

Kurzworkshop/Vortrag: Freitag, 26. August 2011, 19.00 – 21.30 Uhr
Workshop: Samstag, 27. August 2011,
10.00 – 16.00 Uhr
Sonntag, 28. August 2011 10.00 – 16.00 Uhr

Beitrag: Freitag: Euro 40,--
Samstag/Sonntag: Euro 180,--

Vortrag und Workshop (mit Rabatt): Euro 205,-

Anmeldung: direkt auf http://littlegrandmother.n?et/ bzw. durch Bezahlung mittels PayPal anlittlegrandmother30@yaho?o.com

Kurz nach Eingang der Zahlung erhalten Sie eine Anmeldebestätigung per e-mail inklusive weiterer Informationen. Bitte bestätigen Sie den Namen des Teilnehmers für jeden Event extra.

Informationen: Bitte schreiben Sie an Debbie:
beautyawakens@gmail.comKon?takt in Österreich, Karl: K100@gmx.net
Veranstaltungsort, Vortrag und Workshop:Hotel Zum Schwarzen Bären, Familie Pritz,Marktplatz 7
3644 Emmersdorf an der Donau/Melk, NÖ
Österreich Tel. (+43) 02752 712 49
hotel@hotelpritz.at
www.hotelpritz.at
Vortrag und Workshop werden auf Deutsch übersetzt!

Über Little Grandmother

Kiesha Crowther, auch bekannt als „Little Grandmother“, wurde im Alter von 30 Jahren durch einen Stammesältesten der amerikanischen Ureinwohner als Schamanin eingeweiht. Dabei wurde ihr auch gesagt, dass es ihre Aufgabe sei, eine Schamanin und Weisheitsbewahrerin des „Stammes der vielen Farben“ zu sein.

Als Kind verbrachte sie lange Zeit allein in der Wildnis, wo sie mit Vierbeinern, Einbeinern, den Geflügelten und Schwimmenden, sowie den Sternen- und Stein-Leuten lebte und von ihnen lernen durfte. Ihr junges Leben war gekennzeichnet durch viele ungewöhnliche Erfahrungen und Begabungen, die sie anfangs selbst nicht verstanden hat. Als Kind wurde sie von den Ahnen, ihren ehemaligen Großmüttern und Mutter Erde unterrichtet und gelehrt. Sie war bekannt für ihre Fähigkeit, die Tiere der Wildnis zu spüren und mit ihnen zu kommunizieren, Energien zu sehen und damit zu arbeiten.

Seitdem sie auf ihrem Weg als Schamanin und Weisheitsbewahrerin eingeweiht wurde, hat Kiesha damit begonnen, diese Lehren anderen mitzuteilen und Heilungszeremonien für Einzelne und Mutter Erde durchzuführen. Sie spürt ihre Verantwortung, die Weisheit der Erde und das Wissen der Ahnen zu tragen und in unsere gegenwärtigen Zeit zu kommunizieren. Zuletzt hat sie Videos ihrer Vorträge herausgegeben, welche über YouTube frei zugänglich sind und die bereits von Hunderttausenden Menschen weltweit gesehen wurden.

Ihre Arbeit als Weisheitsbewahrerin beinhaltet auch das Pflanzen von heiligen Kristallen an ganz bestimmten Orten rund um den Planeten, um die wertvollen Ley Lines von Mutter Erde zu erneuern und zu stärken.

Ihre kraftvolle Botschaft hebt hervor, wie das individuelle und planetare Bewusstsein verändert werden kann, wie man im Herzen in der richtigen Beziehung mit Mutter Erde lebt und sich daran erinnert, wer wir wirklich sind – nämlich DAS GROSSE ICH BIN.

Little Grandmother reist häufig, um Erdheilungs-Zeremonien in aller Welt durchzuführen. Sie hält Vorträge und Workshops in den USA und International.

---------

With its first visit in Austria the Schamanin and Weisheitsbewahrerin will describe „Little Grandmother “the keys to the change of individual consciousness. - You will show, how a life becomes possible from the heart for the coming times - being based on the instructions, which direct it kept from the ancestors and mother earth. Little Grandmother about it will speak, as we remember kö… nnen, who we is real, „the large IS i.e. I “, and as a change of our relationship with mother earth, with us transforms and our entire world to each other. It will show certain applications and techniques of the work with earth energies, will convey for increase of the own energetic oscillation, and information, which were given it particularly for humans of this country in this time.

Kurzworkshop/lecture: Friday, 26 August 2011, 19,00 - 21,30 o'clock Workshop: Saturday, 27 August 2011, 10.00 - 16,00 o'clock Sunday, 28 August 2011 10,00 - 16,00 o'clock Contribution: Friday: Euro 40,-- Saturday/Sunday: Euro 180,-- Lecture and Workshop (with discount): Euro 205, -
Registration: directly on http://littlegrandmother.n et/and/or by payment by means of PayPal anlittlegrandmother30@yaho o.com Shortly after entrance of the payment you receive a registration confirmation by email inclusive of further information. Please confirm to the names of the participant for each Event specially.
Information: Please write Debbie: beautyawakens@gmail.comKon clock in Austria, Karl: K100@gmx.net Place of event, lecture and Workshop: Hotel to the black bear, family Pritz, market place 7 3644 Emmersdorf at the Danube/milk, NÖ Austria Tel. (+43) 02752 712 49 hotel@hotelpritz.at www.hotelpritz.at Lecture and Workshop are translated on German!
Over Little Grandmother Kiesha Crowther, also admits masteroldest of the American natives as „Little Grandmother “, at the age of 30 years by one as Schamanin was inaugurated. You were also said that it was their task to be a Schamanin and a Weisheitsbewahrerin „of the trunk of the many colors “. When child spent it long time alone in the wilderness, where it lived with Vierbeinern, Einbeinern, the winged ones and swimming, as well as the asterisking and the stone people and was allowed from them to learn. Their recent life was characterized by many unusual experiences and gifts, which it at first did not understand. As a child it was informed and taught of the ancestors, its former grandmothers and mother earth. It was admits for its ability to feel the animals of the wilderness and communicate with them to see energies and work thus.
Since then it on their way as Schamanin and Weisheitsbewahrerin was inaugurated, Kiesha began to communicate these teachings to others and to accomplish healing ceremonies for individual and mother earth. She feels her responsibility to carry the wisdom of the earth and the knowledge of the ancestors and into our present time communicate. It published last videos of its lectures, which are freely accessible over YouTube and which were seen world-wide already by hundredthousands of humans.
Their work as Weisheitsbewahrerin contains also a planting of holy crystals at completely determined places approximately around the planet, in order to renew the valuable Ley LINEs of mother earth and strengthen. Their strong message emphasizes, how the individual and planetary consciousness be changed can, as one lives in the heart in the correct relationship with mother earth and itself reminded of it, who we are real - the LARGE I IS. Little Grandmother travels frequently, in order to accomplish earth healing ceremonies in all world. It holds lectures and Workshops in the USA and international.

Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Ingeborg on July 16, 2011, 09:57:08 am
I did another translation of the ad for the event in Austria.
While Crowther does not claim ndn in this text, she still claims to have been 'iniated' as a shame-on by one elder....

................

At her first visit in Austria, the shaman and keeper of wisdom „Little Grandmother“ will describe the keys to change individual consciousness. - She will show how a life from the heart will become possible for times coming - founded on the teachings she received directly from the ancestors and mother earth. Little Grandmother will speak about how we can remember who we really are, i.e. the „Great I AM“, and how a change in our relationship to mother earth, with ourselves and others will transform our entire world. She will demonstrate certain exercises and techniques of work with earth energies, in order to increase the own energetic vibrations, and will pass information which were given to hear in particular for the people of this country in these times.


About Little Grandmother

Keisha Crowther, also known as „Little Grandmother“, was initiated as a shaman at the age of 30 by a tribal elder of the American natives. She was also told then that it was her task to be a shaman and keeper of wisdom of the „tribe of many colours“.

As a child, she spent much time on her own in the woods where she lived with four-legged, one-legged, the winged ones and the swimming ones as well as the star and stone people and was allowed to learn from them. Her young life was marked by many exceptional experiences and talents which she did not understand herself initially. As a child, she was taught and instructed by her ancestors, her former grandmothers and mother earth. She was known for her talend to feel the animals of wildernis and communicate with them, to see energies and work with them.

Since she has been initiated on her path as a shaman and keeper of wisdom, Keisha started to pass these teachings to others and to do healing ceremonies for individuals and for mother earth. She senses her responsibility to carry the wisdom of earth and the knowledge of the ancestors and to communicate these in our present times. She has just published videos of her lectures which are accessible for free at YouTube and which already have been watched by hundreds of thousands of people worldwide.

Her work as a keeper of wisdom also comprises planting sacred crystals at certain places around the planet in order to strengthen and renew the valuable ley lines of mother earth.

Her powerful message emphasizes how the individual and planetary consciousness can be changed, how one can live in a true relationship with mother earth in one's heart and remember who we really are – i.e. the GREAT I AM.

Little Grandmother travels frequently to do earth healing ceremonies all over the world. She does lectures and workshops in the USA and internationally.

Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: secondsight on August 04, 2011, 04:25:23 pm
Hello,

Noticed the Topanga Film Festival Elders Board thing-ie was cancelled on LG's world wide celebrity travel schedule.

Second Sight


Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: piya on August 13, 2011, 12:58:32 am
She is so weak, when she was at Glastonbury, UK, I went to confront her. She was huddled past me by her friends. She is being controlled. as we thought.
Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Freija on August 15, 2011, 07:24:31 am
She is so weak, when she was at Glastonbury, UK, I went to confront her. She was huddled past me by her friends. She is being controlled. as we thought.

Thanks for letting us know, Piya. I wondered how you got on.
I guess this doesn´t come as a surprise for us. It´s sad, somehow....maybe she would have been inclined to listen to Natives if she hadn´t been stopped from doing so.

It has gone very quiet, hasn´t it? Was looking for photos or videos from Australia and UK, but haven´t found any.
Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: MsWilma on August 15, 2011, 10:05:56 pm
Hi from Australia. Very little advertising came my way here in Melbourne. Then again, I'm in a semi country town with toddlers, so I'm not exactly in the thick of it.  :) At the same time, i didnt hear anything about her from the usual alternative groups,; not even the people who first sent me her videos.
There was one Australian forum that was active around the time of Crowther's visit- think it was the Federation of Light. Had a lot of chatter about looking forward to her visit, etc. I noticed that someone had posted the info from here about Crowther appropriating an aboriginal artist's work on that forum, but I dont think the post stayed up...
Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: secondsight on September 12, 2011, 04:08:27 pm
Greetings,

Check out LG's latest video on her site. Sept 2011 Message (of Hope).. She makes an apology to Native Americans and offers a portion of money from her book to Native American teachers.

Still has the title Wisdom Keeper and Shaman on website,etc.

Here is the link: http://littlegrandmother.net/Media.aspx

Second Sight
Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: secondsight on September 12, 2011, 04:15:45 pm
Greetings,

She has 2 commentaries on  her book from 2 Native Americans ( according to their names and tribes).

Look for Advance Praise on this site:http://littlegrandmother.net/Media.aspx

Is that her own publishing company? Never heard of it.

Second Sight
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: critter - a white non-ndn person on September 13, 2011, 12:07:26 am
i'm still not able to watch her for long.. too sickening.. however, i skipped through it and basically
think she is only doing that to try and get "trouble" off her back so she can get more members who
will support her life style. basically, an apology with an agenda and as far as i see, it's still the same
old b.s. and she is no one's grandmother.
Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Smart Mule on September 13, 2011, 01:06:58 am
At 11:35 she says she will continue to teach indigenous ways.  She will donate funds to people willing to teach indigenous ways, not indigenous people who are, say, freezing to death because they can't afford propane.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Defend the Sacred on September 13, 2011, 01:10:41 am
Maybe she'll send the freezing elders a crystal.
Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: secondsight on September 13, 2011, 01:29:01 am
She still blames the so called Indian (who mysteriously passed away) for telling her she was called to be Shaman to not one- but two tribes.

"He had no right to put that title on me." Yet she accepted it.

And then uses the 'evangelist excuse': Trust the message because it is true. I am a flawed being, but the message is true.

Send propane, as you have said, and do it without fanfare. A real teacher does the right thing when others are not watching.

But then how would she sell those deeply informative books? Wonder what her income is by now...

Second Sight


Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Superdog on September 13, 2011, 03:01:48 am
She still blames the so called Indian (who mysteriously passed away) for telling her she was called to be Shaman to not one- but two tribes.

"He had no right to put that title on me." Yet she accepted it.

And then uses the 'evangelist excuse': Trust the message because it is true. I am a flawed being, but the message is true.

Send propane, as you have said, and do it without fanfare. A real teacher does the right thing when others are not watching.

But then how would she sell those deeply informative books? Wonder what her income is by now...

Second Sight




She also lies and says that once she found out she immediately apologized and stopped saying she represented two different tribes...still claiming she was initiated as a shaman (this is from the same person she just told everyone didn't have the right to pass things on to her).  No mention of the false claim she made regarding Don Alejandro (Wandering Wolf) and his endorsement (which his people now refute as never happening and no affiliation with Crowther whatsoever).  She says she's only donating money to people who "teach" Native ways....not Natives. 

She's still lying, the apology really isn't one as she first blames her critics (Natives) for criticisizing her and how much time it took away from her "work", then offers that lame backhanded apology, followed by the lie that she tried to make amends immediately.  It's all documented on the thread as people copied the text from her website written in her own words which refute that claim (the ever changing "Statement from Kiesha regarding Native Issues") and it's easy to see that much time went by....in fact all the way up to this point in time (it's been a few years now) before she even acknowledged that the stuff she said wasn't true....even though we've been telling her all along that we already knew that.

Just another marketing ploy....once again, playing a victim.  Same old story. 

Superdog
Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Freija on September 13, 2011, 09:23:40 am
Well, she said she will donate to those Indigenous peoples who are willing to teach.... so at least she doesn´t talk about donating to non-Natives teaching Native ways. BUT considering how little she seems to know about Native cultures, she might just end up donating to some European selling sweats and pretending to be Lakota.... :-[  Hope she looks in to it thoroughly IF she does, indeed, donate.

Love that she admitted that what she did in Sweden was wrong  ;)

I will give her credit for giving a public apology, but it´s wayyyyy too late! She looks very tired and I think right now she is just saving what can be saved. An apology with an agenda to save a crumbling "kingdom" does not feel very sincere. (And on her FB-site, people tell her: "NO need for you to apologize, Keisha!" Just saying....)
Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: educatedindian on September 13, 2011, 12:53:55 pm
I had a similiar reaction. The apology is brief and buried within a long statement asking people to pity her and depicting herself as the real victim here of so much supposed "hate."

That claim she will give "some" of her profits from the book to "Natives who teach" is also questionable. Obviously she wants to give it to Natives who teach things she agrees with. It wouldn't surprise me at all if she gives it to frauds like DeArmon, or the supposed Apache woman who seems like an eccentric grandma. It's my guess those are the two 'Indians" she claims endorse her book. I didn't see which video was their endorsement.

It's potentially a start, since she does kind of sort of admit wrongdoing and talks about making reparations. If she were truly sincere I'd tell her, give HALF of ALL money she has made to the Salish. Not "Natives who teach" things she likes, but charities that help people. Helping an elder through a cold winter is more important than spreading your message, silly woman.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: critter - a white non-ndn person on September 13, 2011, 06:00:37 pm
Well, my thought is that purposely, online, for millions to see saying you're going to
"give money" if you teach NA ways.. um.. that's like throwing meat out for the dogs.
They'll all come a running.. like Jervis and those types.. then she can pick who she wants
to work for her so she doesn't have to do so much but sit back and enjoy the funds..
and make a video now and then..
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Defend the Sacred on September 13, 2011, 07:12:51 pm
If she were truly sincere I'd tell her, give HALF of ALL money she has made to the Salish. Not "Natives who teach" things she likes, but charities that help people. Helping an elder through a cold winter is more important than spreading your message, silly woman.

Since her original claim was that she was "the shaman of the Sioux-Salish"[sic] I think she should give the other half to one of the L/D/N nations. Maybe some of the people raising funds for propane and housing on Pine Ridge, Rosebud and Cheyenne River would accept her money. As long as she didn't expect to be welcomed by them or included in any ceremonies.

Then she could go live in a FEMA trailer and try to figure out how to make enough money to get through the winter. Maybe they'll let her park a van in the parking lot of a store on Pine Ridge, and the snow will pile up around her.... She could learn a lot that way.
Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: secondsight on September 13, 2011, 08:18:20 pm
Critter....that is a creepy thought!

You could be right, maybe she is just looking to increase followers by offering $$.

I did like her statement about Sweden_ " I never should have worn those things< it was disrespectful....EXCEPT:

She claims medicine was sent to her but why would Indians send her something that is disrespectful to wear? Most likely she purchased the entire outfit to make an impression of power and now regrets the backlash.

Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Superdog on September 13, 2011, 08:31:40 pm
Critter....that is a creepy thought!

You could be right, maybe she is just looking to increase followers by offering $$.


Without a doubt, although any new followers would completely fail to see it that way.  To them, she's gonna look like she's going waayyyyy out of her way to appease the rumbling savages, so she should be thanked for that.  *rolling eyes*

The one thing that sticks out the most when it comes to this fake apology is the look in her eyes in the Santa Fe video where she states with total vitriol...."I DON'T CARE" when asked about the very subject she claims to be apologizing for now.

Superdog
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: critter - a white non-ndn person on September 13, 2011, 09:28:18 pm
She doesn't care about it. Yes, I did not watch the whole "apology" video, but what I saw
was a fake woman giving a fake speech and being conniving in offering money to suit her
own end/needs. Who offers money to those who teach NA ways? When NA ways are NOT
taught for money? Nor taught to the public or masses..

And who would accept that but more frauds. And.. if she can lure some
of these other more "credible" frauds to her camp.. the more she becomes the "hero" by
helping them.. the more the innocent will look to her like a God(dess).. and .. more money
will flow in. And she can sit at the top of the pyramid like the queen she imagines
herself to be.. providing funding to *anyone* who teaches NA ways.. if that is not
the worse!  Yeah.. she'll be the queen alright.. Queen of cultural misappropriation and
exploitation .. she'll be funding it.

She makes me sick. What she is doing with this makes me sick. She is a SICK person!   >:(

I do not believe anything she says. If she wanted to make apology she would do so in
a right way and forfeit all the money she's made thus far to those she exploited.. not
offer it to more exploiters..

Also, an apology that accepts no responsibility for what is being apologized for is an
empty apology. Apologies are only worthy if the person actually has learned, has regret,
and changes their way.  She may claim regret, but since she continues on in her "littlegrandmother"
role, and doesn't come clean or change her ways about the falseness of all of her claims, then her
apology is not real.

jmo.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: critter - a white non-ndn person on September 13, 2011, 10:03:14 pm
Maybe she's having a hard time getting people to purchase her b.s., and having
a hard time getting "gigs" due to the many voices who protest her..

so.. Plan B.. have some other fraud who already has a good following make the
money for her by offering to fund them.. of course she'll get a cut in return.. that's
a lot easier way to get the money than having to fight the voices against her.

That's what I think.
Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Freija on September 14, 2011, 11:09:17 am

I did like her statement about Sweden_ " I never should have worn those things< it was disrespectful....EXCEPT:

She claims medicine was sent to her but why would Indians send her something that is disrespectful to wear? Most likely she purchased the entire outfit to make an impression of power and now regrets the backlash.


Oh, the stuff probably came from THE one and only SalishSioux tribe. The tribe noone but Kiesha knows of.
And the people who provided her with that stuff died afterwards. All of them.   :-\ :(

Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: debbieredbear on September 14, 2011, 04:26:45 pm
Quote
And the people who provided her with that stuff died afterwards. All of them

Read more: http://www.newagefraud.org/smf/index.php?action=post;topic=2871.1095;num_replies=1103#ixzz1XwepJA4f
 

They must have died from embarrassment! ;D
Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: secondsight on September 14, 2011, 05:33:00 pm
LOL! Very funny Frieja!  ;)

Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: OneRed on September 15, 2011, 02:01:52 am
Well I went to make some comments on her "youtube apology" and go figure the moderator wouldn't approve them lol

Her events roster is up http://littlegrandmother.net/EVENTSCALENDAR.aspx - none of the fee pages were working at the time, except for the Hawaii event and this one http://www.findhorn.org/programmes/460/ .. if you look on there, you will see their list of speakers and also where she neglected to inform them that she is not native - still claiming her mother  as being Sioux/Salish. Guess they didn't bother checking out her site and her video where she confesses she is not ... maybe someone should give them a phone call or email them the youtube link and perhaps this thread.

One of my business colleagues specializes in reading people's body language, he shut off the sound and watched her movements etc. and said she's a con and will have a new spin all the time to work her angle. And when someone is full of it they have a tendency to look upwards and away from the camera, not necessarily moving their head upwards, but I mean their eyes ..know what I mean? lol And that's something she does a lot if you watch it and pay attention.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: critter - a white non-ndn person on September 15, 2011, 03:10:50 am
she is a con and always spinning a new scam. early in this thread it was mentioned about
who her handlers were/are .. who funds her..

well.. obviously, she has decided that "funding" others is where the money is at..
Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: OneRed on September 15, 2011, 03:33:46 pm
Yeah I've known all about her for some time, a few friends have been sharing updates about her idiocy for the past couple of years. I posted her video on my FB page as some of my colleagues are quite spiritual and some share spiritual teachings etc. so wanted to make them aware of her. One thing her "victims" seem to be missing is that she wouldn't make such huge errors against our people if she were truly a shaman and not the newager crap but the traditional type. How she goes on and on about her connection with animals .. I think she got confused at what an animal whisperer is and what a shaman is LOL ... I also love how she mispronounced Salish but yet her mother was half Salish LOL Sorry but sometimes outright stupidity makes me laugh.
Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Honoring Boundaries on September 20, 2011, 11:22:26 pm
Some material posted on another message board.

http://forum.rickross.com/search.php?12,search=Kiesha+Crowther+,page=1,match_type=ALL,match_dates=0,match_forum=ALL
Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: secondsight on September 22, 2011, 11:52:00 pm
Here is the Advance Praise comments for LG's book. Anyone know if these are actual native American names, or actual people?

“Little Grandmother walks with humility and integrity. Because of this the old ones have chosen her to convey their message of such deep and profound wisdom for the betterment of our beloved Earth Mother and all who dwell upon and within her. And to remind us and awaken the memory of these teachings within each and every one of us.
Little Grandmother's ability to walk humbly as the carrier of such gifts of wisdom is the key that unlocks the hearts of everyone who meets her and hears the messages.
She walks in her truth wearing the cloak of Rongomaraeroa, the entity of all things peaceful, with much dignity and grace. This book is a gift to the world.”
Makere Ruka Te Korako ~ a grandmother of Waitaha, Te Atiawa and Ngati Tama.
 
 
“In this book Kiesha shares the messages that she has personally received from Spirit—knowledge seriously needed at this time not only by human, the animals and the earth but also our star brothers and sisters, for what we do here affects the whole of existence across dimensions and universes.
I honor Kiesha's courage to come forward to do this work at this time, to make these teachings public, even in the face of criticism and great scrutiny by some who have closed their hearts. Only very spiritual beings with open minds and hearts have received these teachings, and they are being instructed to share them publicly now. Listen with your heart and your connection to Source for the truth—for it is here in this book, and must be told.”
Frank W. Wise, “Buffalo Horn Cloud” ~ Peacemaker, Lakota, Cheyenne River Sioux tribe
 
 
“My ancestors, the Sami, would have been proud of you, Kiesha. In this book you remind us of something people have always known — that all life constitutes a whole and that we are all a part of it. You remind us that we must take care of our dear Mother Earth. This is a beautiful and wise book, emphasizing that we are all equally valuable. Thank you from my heart.”
Signe Maasø ~ Sami elder and drum and sound healer from Norway, Iliana life coach
Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: ShadowDancer on September 23, 2011, 04:03:40 am
I did a little searching on Google.

There is a Frank W. Wise who is a professor of physics at Cornell University.  Ooops... wrong guy. 

However, there is also a Frank (no W) Wise who does come up.

https://ravenredbone.wordpress.com/2011/07/07/raven-visits-with-frank-wise-on-make-no-bones-about-it/

Quote
Raven visits with Frank Wise on Make No Bones About It

Sunday at 4-pm July 10th, 2011 only on Kaos 89.3 Fm – Olympia

Bio: Frank Wise is a Member of the: Cheynne River Sioux Tribe. His Spirit name is: Buffalo Horn Cloud. Frank Lives in: Casper Wy. He has a BSW degree from the University of Wyoming minored in Addiction Counseling. Frank mostly attends and supports Lakota Spirtual Practices but he has worked with spitual leaders of most faiths and religions. He speaks with Rave about his message: Time to come together and put aside our differance for the fhuter of our childen and our mother the Earth.

his email his lakota@buffalo.com

He is also on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/frank.wise2?sk=info

                          ---------------------------------------------------------------------

A search on Signe Maasø only turns up two hits.  Both are for the recommendation/review of LG's book.

                          ---------------------------------------------------------------------

Makere Ruka Te Korako has lots of hits on Google.

https://encrypted.google.com/search?q=Makere+Ruka+Te+Korako

The Waitaha Nation site seems to be her home base

http://www.waitaha.org/  (warning there is music on the opening page)

She has a video on Youtube for the Net of Light for Mother Earth Call for Prayer

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KiaCm0DvNck

Quote
Grandmother Earth is bleeding to death

What we can do now

Turtle speaks:

"Our Mother Earth is in urgent need of immediate love and support. Her core has been breached and she is bleeding. Unchecked sulphur, oil, and toxic gases in the Gulf of Mexico are giving way to widening fissures that threaten life as we know it, on all the lands and in all the waters we love.

~ It need not be so ~

The Ancient Ones are calling on humankind to go to the waters."
   

For the sake of our dear mokopuna and generations of grandchildren to come,the time is critical. And so,
Dear human kind.. All Our Relations.. Let us answer the call of the ancestors and join our hearts in intention to curtail the hemorrhage, address the underlying grief and wrong-thinking, and send love to our beloved Grandmother Earth.

THE TIME IS NOW:July 25 through 30, astrological likelihood for further breakdown of old structures such as we have seen is ripe. However, on July 12 (New Zealand time) the sun sextiles Mars, and Venus and Regulus are aligned. We experience a solar eclipse crossing through the Pacific and directly over the emotional, naval center of the earth (Rapanui / Easter Island). We exit the tunnel, which began at the lunar eclipse and Grand Cross on June 26. This will be the opportune window to avert further injury and to begin restoration of our beautiful Mother.

~ We Are Water ~

All things are alive and connected through water. Water is a conscious conduit and instantaneous transmitter of intention. Our intention is that we not go again the way of Atlantis, but
to replenish and rejoin our Mother in truth, beauty and harmony.
   

We call for prayer-gatherings over local waterways.
This Sunday July 11th at dawn and at dusk in preparation for the great shadow eclipse, and again gathering on Monday the 12th at the actual time of the eclipse:
(7:35am NZ time.) Go to www.timeanddate.com/worldclock for your local time.
Those nearby are invited to come to Waikirikiri River at White Cliffs Domain, out of Christchurch, New Zealand at 7:30am, and again at 6pm, both days.

Please share this timely intention worldwide via e-chains and websites.
And individually.. beginning immediately, with every morning and evening star.. Let us send from our hearts, messages of deeply felt apology and love, through bright Venus to the waters of the Gulf of Mexico. Let us re-imagine, with our hearts, her waters once again crystalline and shimmering with life and light. We need not try to understand how this will be accomplished, but envision it so, with great love. United in purpose, the will of the highest good shall become manifest. Let it be so.
In gratitude, and in service to our beloved mother Papat??nuku / Gaia
Makere, Mareikura o Waitaha (Waitaha Grandmother), Juliette Peck, Loraine Web, Rua Pick, Michelle Croft, Dianne Cutler, Remy Kiehn-Lindsey, Barry Mathers.

Now here is the interesting bit.  The Youtube video is posted by Raven RedBone  (https://ravenredbone.wordpress.com/)aka Brian Frisana, which is the same person/site who has the interview post regarding Frank Wise.





Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: educatedindian on September 23, 2011, 08:57:46 pm
Interesting how her endorsements have shrunk so drastically, from claiming "all" NDNs and other indigenous people endorsed her, to hundreds, to dozens of elders named as being from, what was it, 20 or 25 different tribes, down to just these.

So basically Crowther claims praise from three NDN elders (doesn't seem to know or care that Maori and Sammi aren't NDN) and was only able to find one, who doesn't even seem to be an elder. On Wise's FB page he lists these interests.

" 3 Flowers Healing, THE MYSTICAL EXPERIENCE, How to Raise Your Vibration, Nurture The Children, Patrick Ives Photography, Orbs of Light..."

3 Flwrs are a Nuage bunch operating near Mt Shasta. Myst Experience is a Nuage FB page, a mishmash of vaguely claiming-to-be-Hindu stuff. Same with the vibration group. Orbs of Light is another twink group. Ives Photos does cheesecake shots. There are some good charities he believes in. Basically he seems like a Nuager himself. He's not a bad person best I can tell, but he seems to fall for just about anything.

Korako seems like a good person whose involved with a host of causes. For example she allowed her name to be attached to a cause aiding the Salish on water issues. I wonder if that's how she met Crowther, that she was introduced as Salish to Korako. It seems she's just unlikely to believe anything bad about anyone.

But the way that endorsement is worded, "the old ones." I wonder if she just imitated what Crowther told her to say.

Annika, have you ever heard of that person she claims is a Sammi elder? That phrasing also seems odd, "my ancestors", as if she is a descendant and not a Sammi. It was my understanding you had to have Sammi grandparents who spoke the language to be considered Sammi. So her Sammi ancestors were her great grandparents, or even further back?
Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Freija on September 24, 2011, 07:15:16 am
Annika, have you ever heard of that person she claims is a Sammi elder? That phrasing also seems odd, "my ancestors", as if she is a descendant and not a Sammi. It was my understanding you had to have Sammi grandparents who spoke the language to be considered Sammi. So her Sammi ancestors were her great grandparents, or even further back?

No, never heard of her but she is apparantly Norwegian Sami.
I had the same thoughts, Al. The wording is strange, especially since she claims to be a Sami elder.
The Samis do not have blood quantum, they define themselves, pretty much like you said, Al. If you live your culture, speak the language, have Sami ancestors way back and follow your traditions....you´re Sami.

There are very few what you would call "medicinepeople" left among the Samis. The spiritual traditions have gone lost to a big extent. I know some old people still practicing these traditions, but they are v-e-r-y private and quiet about what they do, even to their own people. It is not talked about at all. None of them would label themselves "Drum and sound healer". 
Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Soma on December 12, 2011, 10:43:58 pm
Why, oh why. Why they gotta do me like that  :-[
Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Soma on December 27, 2011, 09:11:30 pm
My comment's were flagged as spam...

Quote
She speaks a lot of truth about certain matters, so it's disheartening and unfortunate to find out she has fabricated her roots and is associated with people who curse the Native Americans for bringing this Truth to the surface...

She has a sound perspective on existence...I'd like to give her the same amount of respect as I did before stumbling on the controversies surrounding her

http://youtu.be/Bdnnt_mnAFc
Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Pono Aloha on December 28, 2011, 07:38:17 am
she is going to be in Santa Fe in Jan. 2012 http://littlegrandmother.net/SantaFeBooksigning.aspx Perhaps a good time for a demonstration?
Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Soma on December 29, 2011, 01:09:38 pm
I am left completely baffled by the fact that her extreme followers will take ridiculous measures to censor the Truth. They don't want to hear it, they prevent others from knowing about it and they discredit anyone who will criticize her:

Quote
I think the people who were angry with you do not know who they are. Although the indigenous of the Americas were and are severely victimized, there are those among them who are very abusive. Part of? the problem is that you trust in the Native American ways. They were not perfect either. Those who were angry with you are the? ones who should apologize. I believe the message you are to learn from this hostility is that you have idealized the indigenous cultures of North America. Embrace all.
Quote
Those who were angry with you are the ones who should apologize
Quote
The negativity is either coming from people who are still sleeping and choose to do more than just reject your message, which is fine as it is, their choice, but to also direct negativity energy at you is a sign of a person who hasn't woken up to who they are

To deem everyone who feels inclined to investigate further into this matter as a force of Negativity....It is despicable. It is Madness. I cannot stress this enough.

It is incredible that her followers could be considering themselves as "Light Workers" by filtering out supposed "Negative" messages and allowing only the messages which praise her.

It is deceptive to play as the victim. Her predicament is the result of her own actions!

God bless Kiesha Crowther and her devoted followers.
Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: AnnOminous on January 07, 2012, 02:36:51 am
I assume this video link is posted elsewhere on this thread.
If not, here it is.  If so, here it is again.

http://player.vimeo.com/video/16812713?title=0&byline=0&portrait=0&color=21c8d1


I just found it on a friend of a friend's FB page and was very surprised.
Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Soma on January 20, 2012, 10:55:58 pm
(http://i39.tinypic.com/1sijqp.jpg)

Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Superdog on February 24, 2012, 01:57:18 am
Well guess who just updated their "internet rumors" page.  She changed a few things.  Still huffy about being called out, then in one sentence states clearly she's not the shaman for the Sioux/Salish peoples and a sentence or two later states that she's never presented herself as a Sioux shaman.

Most of it is the old message, I'll try and highlight the obvious changes:

http://littlegrandmother.net/InternetRumors.aspx

Is Kiesha Really Native American? Is she a Legitimate Shaman?

 

Kiesha’s mother’s family has always and still lives on the reservation although Kiesha herself was not raised on the Flathead Reservation in Montana. Even though Kiesha did not grow up among tribal traditions, and had grown up away from the tribe, she was nevertheless made a shaman and lead through the initiations by a Sioux named Falling Feathers at age 30. Kiesha has taken part in Inipi and other sacred ceremony under Brave Heart and other Elders from other Native Tribes. Kiesha is NOT the shaman for the Sioux or Salish people and wants to make this very clear. Her Family does live on the reservation but their names will NOT be disclosed to all so people of negative and spiteful intentions have a free for all with them. There are more important things in life than having to *prove one’s self*.  However, (and this is important), Kiesha was told by these Elders that her “tribe” that she was to be the “Tribe of Many Colors."  The Elders who Kiesha works with are fully aware that she was not taught the indigenous ways.  She was never intended to lead traditional tribal ceremony, or to present herself as a representative of any particular tribe and its indigenous ways. To this day, she has never presented herself as a  representative of the Sioux or Salish traditions. Some people who have linked to her videos on the web or written about her may have incorrectly stated this association or made this assumption—but Kiesha has never presented or described herself as a Sioux shaman.  She was initiated into shamanism in the Native American tradition but does not use this language because it implies that she is working within a traditional context. She has been taught to pray and lead ceremony in certain ways, and many of these are in fact traditional ways (by different cultures and peoples, as she is a shaman for the Tribe of many colors and works with the Hawaiian Kahunas, the Waitiha Elders, and the Sami people of the North and so on.  But she does not pretend to know or to follow any specific tradition to a T. That is not her role and purpose. Primary responsibility is to be shaman for the Tribe of Many Colors—which includes non-indigenous people of all backgrounds.  If Keisha’s words have in any way alluded to being a shaman for a specific tribe, she wishes to apologize and give her deepest respect for all traditional peoples and their ways. Little Grandmothers responsibility is to teach love and light and to teach the children of Mother Earth to remember who they are, the power of the heart and compassion, and she knows that as long as there is love and kindness being taught in the world there will always be those trying to tear it down and try to prove her wrong, belittle her or use hurtful words to attack. Her responsibility is to teach love and light as a shaman of the tribe of many colors despite attacks of negativity.


------------------------------

So Brave Heart is a new (and generic) named association.  Falling Feathers and Brave Heart....hmmmm.....

Anyway, for a second I gave her slight props for at least stating that she's not associated with either tribe, but then coming back and saying she "never" presented herself that way.....what a lie.  An utter utter lie.  There is more of the same.  Basically the same statement from before with a few tweaks to keep up with the current version of things she's telling.  She's seems quite angry at us....that's the tone I get.

There's also a new youtube channel for "TheTribeofmanycolors".  Can't confirm it's Crowther's channel as there is not much info, but both videos posted on it contain the beautyawakens@gmail address as well as other contact info for her partner Jennifer Ferraro.   One of the vids is titled "Kiesha Crowther schwitzhuette Sioux/Salish" ......no joke.  In the description "Native American Prophecies Sioux/Salish".  

I'm also seeing information that says she's working on a project of a "shaman school" in Rosenheim, Germany.  Can't confirm that one yet though, but hoping someone overseas might be able to find out more.

Superdog
Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Freija on February 24, 2012, 12:49:18 pm
Think I need another cup of coffee before I can fully digest this text.... :o

There are and have been so many contradictions that it would be impossible for anyone with a common sense not to wonder what the ***** is going on.

It says she does not use the Native American Language  :) since it would imply that she is working within a traditional context. And using a Pipe while wearing a traditional custome (of a man) would not imply such a thing?

Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Superdog on February 24, 2012, 03:25:08 pm
Just reviewed "TheTribeofmanycolors" youtube channel.

http://www.youtube.com/user/TheTribeofmanycolors?feature=watch

I made a mistake earlier.  The e-mail address is beautyawakens@rocketmail, not at gmail which is where her official site lists it.  Also the other e-mail littlegrandmothershamanschool@yahoo.com was a bit of a red flag.

I have a strong suspicion that this is a mirror site, not run by Crowther or her handlers.  This appears more like  copycatting from one her admirers William Burchett (aka William turtlewinds firewalker Jervis).  I've seen him attempting to copycat her before.  Essentially one fraud defrauding another fraud.  I'll keep looking, but I believe the second e-mail address is one he's used before.  Tough to say if he's actually working with her, but he does admire her and has attempted to steal her schtick a few times already.  The lack of child-like writing usually associated with Burchett threw me off for a second, but once I caught the alternate e-mails and the use of German, I put things together.  

So for clarification on my last post.  The information from Kiesha's website, the statement about "Internet rumors", etc is absolutely attributed to Kiesha Crowther.   The "TheTribeofmanycolors" youtube page, I strongly believe is not associated with her.

Superdog
Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Superdog on February 24, 2012, 06:10:25 pm
Ok....I can confirm the "TheTribeofmanycolors" youtube channel is the creation of Burchett.  Searched the littlegrandmothershamanschool@yahoo.com address.  A whole bunch of hits all with Burchett's signature child-like writing.  Blog sites, forum messages, networking sites.  All over the place (like he does with the NAFPS copycat sites he creates...same thing).  So this basically confirms she's not opening a shaman school in Germany, but in fact, Burchett is working to help a few "wisdomkeepers" open their own.  According to him, these are 2 other of the 12 "wisdomkeepers" that Crowther is supposed to be part of.  This is not attributed to her, however, I have no knowledge of these two working together and it's not unlike Burchett to try and steal customers from other frauds.

Here's an example and I'm posting one of the blog postings.  A rather comical (and almost sad) description of how this shaman school is NOT Lakota:

http://littlegrandmothershamanschool.wordpress.com/

"official statement LITTLE GRANDMOTHER SHAMAN SCHOOL   Leave a comment

official statement LITTLE GRANDMOTHER SHAMAN SCHOOL

WE DO NOT TEACH LAKOTA RITUALS AT OUR SCHOOL

JOHN BERRY AND TAMMY SUE BOTH WISDOM KEEPERS

OUR NOT LAKOTA

OUR SCHOOL TEACHS LOVE AND LIGHT

WE TEACH STAR KNOWLEDGE

THERE IS 12 WISDOM KEEPERS

JOHN BERRY A WISDOM KEEER

TAMMY SUE A WISDOM KEEPER

OUR SCHOOL TEACHS NO LAKOTA PATH

BECAUSE WE OUR NOT LAKOTA

OTHER WISDOM KEEPERS MIGHT BE BUT NOT US

WE DO NOT TEACH THE LAKOTA

Spiritual path  AT OUR SCHOOL

WE TEACH LOVE AND LIGHT

OUR SCHOOL IS IN EUROPE  OUR SCHOOL NAMED IN HONOR OF LITTLE GRANDMOTHER

WHO IS ANOTHER WISDOM KEEPER IN THE FAMILY OF THE 12 WISDOM KEEPERS

JOHN BERRY WISDOM KEEPER TRIBE OF MANY COLORS

TAMMY SUE WISDOM KEEPER TRIBE OF MANY COLORS

OUR TEACHERS AND WE OUR NOT LAKOTA

BUT WE OUR THE WISDOM KEEPERS THAT  LIITLE GRANDMOTHER SPOKE ABOUT

WE OUR HERE TO TEACH LOVE

littlegrandmothershmanschool@yahoo.com

littlegrandmother@yahoo.com"


-----------------------------------------

So keep an eye out for both these e-mail addresses.  Ever since he began trying to get in contact with her he's been pretending he's her and using these e-mail addresses (although one is spelled wrong in this particular post), and if anyone can get an idea of who Burchett is trying to promote (John Berry and Tammy Sue) then that might be of interest to the board as he states that their "teacher" is Lakota (who I'm assuming is Burchett's business partner Don Hines).

Superdog

(p.s. I will crosspost to this to the William Jervis thread)
Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Autumn on March 22, 2012, 02:49:25 am
I have felt (or maybe hoped) for some time that Kiesha's website would be shut down and when I checked it today, I did get a strange message.  But, alas, the website has only been "retooled" by her trusty side-kick, Betsey Lewis (and most of the links on the NAFPS thread about her will no longer work).  As we all know, they keep tweaking her history here and there, so that is nothing new.  I was a little puzzled about these statements:

    These Two-legged will be called the Rainbow Tribe, for they are the product of thousands of years of melding among the five original races. These Children of Earth have been called together to open their hearts and to move beyond the barriers of disconnection. The medicine they carry is the Whirling Rainbow of Peace, which will mark the union of the five races as ONE. Jamie Sams, Author & Artist of the Senecca & Cherokee Nation Other Council Fires Were Here Before Our

    If I were asked what group of people best perceives the natural concept of spiritual imagery in this land, I would answer, "The traditional practicing American Indians." If I were asked what group best perceives the spiritual imagery of Black Elk, I would answer, "The Rainbow Tribe people I have met across this country and in foreign countries as well."

    Ed McGaa--Eagle Man, Oglala Sioux Author & Ceremonial Leader from Rainbow Tribe book


As you can see, Betsey did a pretty poor job of proof-reading the copy.

The above quote was found on this page http://littlegrandmother.net/Tribe_of_Many_Colors.html

I know Ed McGaa is discussed on this site, but has anyone ever heard of Jamie Sams?
Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Diana on March 22, 2012, 05:01:24 am
Hi Autumn, here's a posting in frauds on Jamie Sams. http://www.newagefraud.org/smf/index.php?topic=688.0


Lim lemtsh,

Diana
Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Autumn on March 26, 2012, 01:11:05 am
Thanks, Diana.  It seems to take a fraud to support a fraud, doesn't it? 

I find it interesting that LG's Findhorn, Scotland, engagement for 2012 disappeared from her calendar.  I think people are finally getting wise to her.
Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: nemesis on March 26, 2012, 07:51:08 am
Thanks, Diana.  It seems to take a fraud to support a fraud, doesn't it?  

I find it interesting that LG's Findhorn, Scotland, engagement for 2012 disappeared from her calendar.  I think people are finally getting wise to her.

IME Findhorn is an incredibly dodgy organisation whose newage tentacles encompass pseudo-tantra and and plastic shamans.  I doubt that they are concerned about LG's authenticity, or lack thereof, but are probably hoping to avoid any bad press or scandal that would draw attention to their own activities.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: critter - a white non-ndn person on March 27, 2012, 12:31:07 am
Well, if people are getting wise to her, then maybe they won't attend her functions. The show won't go on if there isn't enough money being made to at least cover the costs, regardless of who is sponsoring it.
Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Sad-Old-Druid on March 28, 2012, 03:33:07 pm
Her events roster  ...
[includes a booking to speak at a conference at the Findhorn Foundation, Scotland]
... maybe someone should give them a phone call or email them  ... and perhaps this thread.


I find it interesting that LG's Findhorn, Scotland, engagement for 2012 disappeared from her calendar.  I think people are finally getting wise to her.


Perhaps there were several members of this forum who wrote to the Findhorn conference organisers about LG. Good result. There have been numerous criticisms about the way Findhorn operates.

Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Autumn on March 29, 2012, 01:20:58 am
Thanks for the info about Findhorn, Nemesis and Sad Old Druid.  I was not aware of that at all.  That sounds like a case of "too much of a good thing" and that is too bad.  Perhaps they cancelled LG because no one was booking for her engagement and they decided to cut their losses.
Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: nemesis on March 29, 2012, 08:01:15 pm
Autunm, there 's a very interesting piece on Findhorn here.

http://www.kevinrdshepherd.info/findhorn_foundation_problems.html

Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: secondsight on May 29, 2012, 04:51:49 pm
http://littlegrandmother.net/Events_Calendar.html

 Kie$ha Joins Chief Golden Light Eagle for a conference in Az. Seems she tried to connect with him in Palm Springs. I'm not sure if I recall accurately, but I think he backed out of the conference at that time....

Anyone know of Golden Light Eagle? There are links to his gigs on the Kie$ha page above.

" This year the Elders from the north and the south will be joining Little Grandmother during this 4 day conference."

Guess she will never stop with the Native American, though she did try to get hooked up with the Gambles, producers of the movie Thrive. ( see her recommendation for the film on her front page.)
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Defend the Sacred on May 29, 2012, 08:28:12 pm
Here's the website for the gathering http://www.starknowledgeconference.com/

"Golden Light Eagle", under his various aliases, is mentioned in a few threads. Here's the main one:
Loren Zephier / Golden Eagle / Galactic Federation of Light
http://www.newagefraud.org/smf/index.php?topic=2897.0

And the gathering itself:
Star Knowledge Conference/Star Family Reunion, Farmington, New Mexico
http://www.newagefraud.org/smf/index.php?topic=2752.0

Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Defend the Sacred on May 29, 2012, 08:30:30 pm
Looks like Kie$ha is also going to try to do some pay to pray in the Northeast. Heads up:

http://www.littlegrandmother.net/Portland__Maine_Workshop.html
Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Freija on May 30, 2012, 08:50:15 am
She is coming back to Sweden this summer! Can´t belieive it....after all the information that has been going out here, even on radio! :-[
But there is still money to be made out of "the believers", so heyyy....!
 
http://littlegrandmother.net/Sweden_2012.html

I have seen some promotion here but this time NO mentioning of Native American and/or Sami culture. Or any other indigenous peoples. And NO ceremonies this time.
Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: educatedindian on May 30, 2012, 01:03:34 pm

I have seen some promotion here but this time NO mentioning of Native American and/or Sami culture. Or any other indigenous peoples. And NO ceremonies this time.

I'd call that a victory. If she'd just do that everywhere she went and in her promotions, there'd be no reason to protest her.
Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: czech on June 29, 2012, 12:17:14 pm
KC coming to Prague, Czech Republic - August 5, 2012 and Bratislava, Slovakia - August 8, 2012.

Still advertized as daughter of a Sioux/Salish mother:

http://www.evolution.cz/cs/component/content/article/80-little-grandmother-keisha-crowthe

http://www.vstupenkov.cz/Detail.aspx?id=220
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Defend the Sacred on June 30, 2012, 06:35:36 pm
KC coming to Prague, Czech Republic - August 5, 2012 and Bratislava, Slovakia - August 8, 2012.

Still advertized as daughter of a Sioux/Salish mother:

http://www.evolution.cz/cs/component/content/article/80-little-grandmother-keisha-crowthe

Mediocre machine translation of the above page into English (http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=cs&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.evolution.cz%2Fcs%2Fcomponent%2Fcontent%2Farticle%2F80-little-grandmother-keisha-crowthe&act=url). Yup, she's still claiming to be NDN:

"The daughter of a white father - a friend and protector of the Sioux Indians and Indian / Salish mother." 
Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Saga on July 12, 2012, 07:54:58 am
Hey friends, long time no see. :)

Anyway, I am going to delete my Saga blog and with it goes the "collection" of Kiesha news, so I thought to inform you in case someone wants to copy the Kiesha post stuff somewhere to keep it online as at the moment I am thinking of wiping the whole blog clean out. Kiesha post is still visited about 10 to 30 times/day...

Link to post here: About Kiesha Crowther - Little Grandmother (http://sagasearth.blogspot.fi/2011/01/about-kiesha-crowther-little.html)

Keep up the good work! <3
Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: tecpaocelotl on July 12, 2012, 03:50:24 pm
What's the reason for deleting it? Just curious.
Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: educatedindian on July 13, 2012, 12:37:53 pm
Saga's posts about Crowther, from http://sagasearth.blogspot.fi/2011/01/about-kiesha-crowther-little.html.

----------
Thursday, January 20, 2011
About Kiesha Crowther - Little Grandmother
If you are looking for truths with deep roots and tradition, this is not it. This is just another new age thing, but with continuous lies, doesn't even give the comfort of "honest" new age thing.

Commercial, usually white, "shamans", who are claiming to have the roots and/or traditional wisdom of natives, have nothing to do with native American indians being too selfish and not sharing their beliefs/wisdom/etc and someone having to do it, hence getting the blame and critic on them... (you can guess how many times I have heard this "they just don't want to share" -thing, if only it was about sharing something true by someone who knows what the talk is about...)
It is more about... well think it like this: someone born and raised in Islamic tradition starts to SELL classes about how to be true Christian, and has workshops of true christian values and "rituals" and possibly about how to read and interpret the bible right way, without properly reading it herself/himself and without living a single day in Christian culture. Teachings might not be the worse thing, neither is the person's background, but if there is no real connection to Christianity, how can it be that? And SELLING faith... well, when have you been able to buy happiness and wisdom with money? Can only buy words and things. So in short: true, sound base is needed for true, sound teachings and the most important things come within and are free... Of course KC has started to back up from advertizing so fiercely with indigenous wisdom... but it is still mentioned every time she has a workshop or talk somewhere. Under this new piece of text you can find all that I have gathered and thought earlier when I was fighting myself out of the influence of this phenomenon... it is bit overwhelming, lol. Links are scattered all over the text, some might not work anymore, since some pages have been taken down etc.

The controversy around this "messenger of love" is getting pretty overwhelming and to get rid of the subject, I set aside some of the old priciples and DO write about it, trying to be as objective as I can. It might be hard, since I do feel the whole thing little bit as a personal pain and offend, since I used to love her as well. And yes, I did say "her", I used to be the one who was loudest in saying that "it is the message that matters" when I heard the first rumors. Until I realized that if it is the message that matters, it is damn sure it is better to take it and run hell away from someone who is talking about love and truth and showing everything but...

I will try to keep most of my personal opinions away from the first part of this post, I will add them in the end tho, when I feel bit less moody. I mean, yes, the message gives comfort, but the way she sells it and the way she has twisted the "indigenous" part... Do your own research people, read the real indigenous wisdom and you'll see the differences...

I do wish her and all her followers to find all the love and light they are talking about, but it can't stem from such a huge lies that are part of this current situation...

Anyway, the statements around the business. First is from Don Alejandro's team in Shift of the Ages facebook site as a comment to a post made on tuesday about Kiesha/ 'Little Grandmother':

18 January at 05:19 comment :

"The Lakota & Salish.. & give em a ride to where ever you are at Keisha! You are NO "Shaman" of theirs! NOTE! They do not HAVE "Shaman" and Lakota do NOT call themselves "Sioux". YOU ARE AN INTERNATIONAL FRAUD! A Spiritual Version of Sarah Palin!"
Shift of the Ages answers at 10:08 under that post:
"We are increasingly asked about the person you mention [name] and would like to make a statement in response to your posting.
SOTA does not know and has no affiliation with Keisha Crowther aka "Little Grandmother." Don Alejandro "Wande...ring Wolf" does not know or "recognize" her as a "Shaman," "Wisdom Keeper," or "Elder" of the Continental Council of Indigenous Elders of the Americas as she claims. Neither Don Alejandro nor the SOTA project authorized use of "Wandering Wolf's" messages or the SOTA video material used in support of the personal opinions she shares in her videos and viral messages. Much of information she is sharing is misleading and "taken" out of context.

SOTA is not here to push anyone else down. The truth will eventually reach the surface. Our prayers are that Mrs. Crowther learns a valuable lesson and she, as well as her team and followers, benefit as result."

EDIT: Here's some more conversation about her in SOTA page: http://www.facebook.com/shiftoftheages/posts/119636661439636


On March 20 under one of the posted videos of Kiesha (Rising Spirit & Little Grandmother - We Create Our World.mp4) on the SOTA page:
Shift of the Ages answers: "An example of spreading false information and taking without permission."
On March 29th again in the SOTA page about Kiesha:
Shift of the Ages:

We wanted to stay out of this, but SOTA was more or less forced into addressing Kiesha Crowther's claims. Portions of Wandering Wolf's video messages were taken without permission and used out of context to build her credibility and garner ...support for her message and work. She also claimed to be a recognized member (or Wisdom Keeper) of the Continental Council of Indigenous Elders of the Americas (the underground Council Wandering Wolf is president of) and this is completely false. We've obviously received many questions about Don Alejandro's and SOTA's association with her. Is she saying some inspiring and good things? ... yes. Is some of the things she is saying truth? ... perhaps? Has she intentionally mislead people? ... Without a doubt!


(Go to see the page to find all of the comments under the Kiesha's "we are divine creators" -vid, or see the screenshot. And why are the SOTA statements here? The reason is very clear, Kiesha used to say that Don Alejandro is supporting her message and that she is herself part of the work of continental counsil of indigenous elders of americas... this does prove that she has lied a lot even with her "message".)

Second statement on my list is of course the official statement from salish/kootenai elders committee concerning Little Grandmother/Kiesha Crowther
(in that site also in german, italian, swedish, czech, finnish, dutch and spanish):

"The Culture and Elders Committee of the Confederated Salish and Kootenai Tribes of the Flathead Reservation protect the intangible cultural resources of the tribes including language, songs, stories etc. 

No tribal Elders or elders have met with nor do they condone the claims and actions made by Kiesha Crowther. 

She is not their 'shaman', she has no right to claim this title and the Elders and elders of CSKT of the Flathead Reservation would like her to cease and desist immediately from making such false claims that erode the traditions that members of the CSKT Culture and Elders Committee are trying to preserve."

(The posting of this statement came with the permission and urging of the Salish elders. Anyone doubting this message's authenticity can contact the Flathead Reservation. [you find the addresses/phone numbers/emails from the site])

***
March 2011: I have heard the rumours that Kiesha is gathering "donations" (or saying that she gives the money) for Pine Ridge reservation now. I suggest doing very good research before you give any of your money to this woman, she is not exactly known of her honesty. If you want to support native american indians, contact the reservates/tribal councils or some trustworthy organization and ask how you can do that best.

I mention this couple of times somewhere down there later on the text too, but I do think this is something too important to overlook. For any sort of "shift" to happen at any point, it is extremely important not to support lies and people who seem to think that it is ok to lie to get profit. Look where it got us with our governments. ;)
 
***

That was the official part, what comes to more unofficial and weird things that I have spotted... First of all, the new TOMC forum, the native language comments are forbidden, only english is valid language now... (easier to see if someone is doubting Kiesha and ban them then?) Also, if someone posts on behalf of the banned person, he/she will be banned too, this is from forum rules. (too many people asking why this and that was banned?). Quite a censoreship there. I happen to know that most get banned because of doubting too much, not because they troll or are abusive towards others.

(On Feb 27th, I also read from internet that Kiesha did shut down the official Tribe of Many colors forum with the notice of just couple of hours, because she needs to focus on other, more important things... More important than her "family"? Or was the tribe just something to gather money with? In any case, it is good for her to shut down the only thing where people are able to question her publicly so that the readers/tribers on forum can see it when praising her... Think this is because of more and more people are questioning and it is easier to control them by not letting them chance to find controversy so easy. How was it again... controlling how people think and what information they have access on... sure signs of cult in progress. Of course, it could be seen positively, when people don't have official gathering place, the actual cult action might at least delay... She has "replaced" the forum with webcasts, first 20 minutes for free, but you pay from the rest.)


 
Picture by me, the snow woman
by anonymous artist :)

Anyway, what comes to other concerns, browse in NAFPS forum (click this text for a link to a thread about Kiesha Crowther/Little Grandmother in NAFPS forum. Most of the confirmed information and latest news are in the end, right now there's 69 pages. Very interesting things from 56 or so up, and especially page 59.) , NAFPS (New Age Frauds and Plastic Shamans Forum) isn't Kiesha's personal hate club btw, but have been there for years to expose some nasty frauds and warning people about them and searching the backgrounds of people or groups that make money with (mostly) indigenous spirituality. There is some really good personal views on situation as well as all the videos and articles on which Kiesha has been questioned and somewhat of  a timeline on how she has "worked on" her message to fit the changing circumstances. Of course, not all of it is nice, respectful or true. People tend to demonize people they are against. Look at what Kiesha herself is doing, making threats to people who have opposed her claims... The thing is that there seems to be lots more truth in that site despite the personal speculations than in Kiesha's claims.

I have kept all the links about Kiesha, that explain a lot of what is wrong with the picture with KC/LG, here for a long, long time, but I took all of those out now. Except the ones in this post. I left the words from the Elders and real natives (considering "frauds") in second link list as well as the cult forum links and there are links to more trustworthy sources of indigenous "wisdom" in the first link thread. And what I am asking from all of you to do is this:
Do your own research. Don't ditch something just because you don't want to hear it, but see how much truth there is. You don't have to forget everything said, but I would ask you to consider not to support lies. The world needs transparency, honesty, respect and love at this time.

And no, I don't think the message of loving and thinking positive is a bad one, I did almost ditch that too when I noticed that the source is "too good to be true", but then, after Looooooooong thought, became into conclusion that I can keep some of it and use it, even spread it in my own way, without promoting lies or "truths" that I can't condone. I just don't think that spreading the love and compassion and acceptance towards differences is going to happen this way. And getting out of commercializing everything surely isn't going to happen by selling the sacred or the truths and by twisting them to suit the purpose. I do understand the temptation tho, but who of us really knows THE truth? Wouldn't it be better to find your own meaning to things, to follow your own spiritual path? Not to wait someone to interpret anything to you. Or to take a look on your own people's traditions and beliefs and start recovering your own roots? Especially because we all have our own tasks to do and own messages to get and follow...

I do support the "love and light" and healing the both spiritual and physical world and really focusing on future more than past, since THIS is the moment when you can change everything.. but I support it in the way the real elders speak about it and on my own way, not Kiesha's way (just being might also end up to missing the opportunity to change things for better) and I surely wont support her anymore. Her message has done it's part and I don't feel comfortable supporting a big scam, even less comfortable spreading the message in her name, so I'll just focus on doing my part. And hopefully making the future better for myself and maybe give few ideas to people close to me to make theirs better as well. :) Oh, and ofc, loving the earth and the life with all my heart. Sometimes we bump into "bad" teachers in order to see the wrong way and find our way to rise above what they represent. Most teachers don't have use for us for a long time, because in order to grow, we need to change and move on and found our own, inner path.


Insensible one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts.
- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle
In any case, I think that Kiesha was right in one thing, the truth will always come out. And that is a good thing, since from lies and from the bitterness they cause, nothing can grow.
Hopefully this is my very last public post about the subject. I am tired of it. There are "bad apples" in both sides, the people who fight against frauds and the people who support them. And moving on from it now, with this post, which will hopefully reach enough people and make them realize that the message of real love and acceptance and truth isn't as narrow as this particular message by LG says it is... Would there really be need for censorship in truth? Would Elders withdraw from truth? Would there be the need to make threats to keep others quiet, if it was truth that they are spreading? My part is done and my conscience is clean now and I can hopefully forget this episode from my life as very painful and very educational thing that helped me see the right path, but wasn't one.
May all you find what you are looking for, but be sure that you are looking from the right places... Blessed be.
Anyone who doesn't take truth seriously in small matters cannot be trusted in large ones either.
~Albert Einstein

And no, I don't buy the "if you are looking for distrust, you will find it" comment. I mean, it might be true with the smaller things, but really, if someone is claiming to have native bloodline and THE message from indigenous elders, there should be something to back it up. You know, when it is true, you wont find the distrust, no matter how much you look for it. I wasn't looking for it for sure, I was looking for proof to be able to back her message up, since I liked it originally. But more I see, less I like it... So now I just suggest to do your research and keep the good things before moving on from this one.

EDIT: Origins of "I AM" activity:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I_Am_Activity 
She, and the tribe, is also mentioned on cult education site's messageboard/forum: http://forum.rickross.com/read.php?12,95049,page=1
Of course, Kiesha is perfect "spoon feeded wisdom guru", her group gathers the latest "news" from conspiracy and pseudoscience forums, add a little bit of "indigenous" and earth science and what ever there is in the news, mix it up, twist it to "sell" better and attract more listeners and spoon feed it to spirit hungry people... Yes, of course SOME of it is true, otherwise it wouldn't sell at all, but big part of it is theories, rumors and just mix and match pulp... And ofc the very basic golden rules everyone of us have known or wished to be able to follow all our lives (with ofc all the responsibility removed). And it sells because most of the people looking for it is looking the forums where all the information is gathered from too, it sounds right when you have discussed it somewhere else, it really RESONATES then. :) And it sells because it uses the myth of "lonely, lost, outsider kid climbing into riches/prince/princess/power/hero/whatever... we all want to be that kid.

I encourage everyone to start checking the news from other sources as well. Especially IF you want to look for the "indigenous" wisdom, try to find a bit more indigenous people to get that from, even the little quotes can show how different it is from this... The Kiesha's "message" isn't even what pisses me off most, it is just the plain fact that the whole thing is built on lies... I mean, there still is lots of good parts in it, even better, when looking at the authentic sources for those things, without someone twisting it. At least for me the true indigenous wisdom sinks in way better than this... even tho I do look my own people's roots nowadays instead of other nations. I prefer the earthy ways...

Edit number... something:
about the article "Tribe of many colors or tribe of many dollars" in Indybay... Which has turned into personal comment war against the writer of the article... I want to say: even if you take out of the whole NAFPS and the article writer and check the things yourself, you WILL find lies. If you have a way to check all the different forms of old statements Kiesha('s team) has made about her "origins" and the origins of her message, you will notice that they have been continuously changing to fit the circumstances. After Don Alejandro said that he has nothing to do with Kiesha, his name was taken out...

And if you ever read Arvol Looking Horses statements about selling spirituality, or just about anything, you will notice that the true native american way is different from hers (altho, since there are tons of different tribes with variety of ways, you can find some small similarities with some tribes' "wisdom", but nothing gives perfect match :p). And the white buffalo calf woman prophecy... pfffft... why on earth would Lakota's sacred deity come back on earth as a white woman who does anything to disrespect Lakota people? Especially when it is clearly stated in prophecies that she will come back as white buffalo calf and that she had BLACK hair in her previous human form and that she will come back to LAKOTAS...

Are we white people really so superior that we still have right to suppress, use and abuse every other culture and make money with it? And twist traditions, still?

When most of what we know about our own roots is twisted because we were so eager to suffocate the early day "paganism" when christianity started to rage over land, do we really want to suffocate the still thriving indigenous traditions the same way and make those people loose their connection to roots and earth and nature as well and wander rootless and empty like most of us?

Almost everything I know about my culture before christianity comes through the "these savages and pagans" lenses. I have nothing against christianity as guideline to moral, but I have everything against judging and trying to change by force something that doesn't really hurt anyone, on the contrary. And partly, Kiesha's crusade is harmful to native cultures, her claims (which are bit less now tho) about being the messenger of indigenous cultures, twists the whole tradition from most of the indigenous people, because it is just NOT THEIR wisdom. Not only this, when we buy her "stuff" and follow it, we start to demand indigenous people to change their ways to fit it, or they are "savages" "non-loving" "hateful" etc. people. This sounds bit like the same pattern happening again, this time it is not called religion tho, but "spiritual awakening". Is it right? Doesn't this fit perfectly under the frame "judging"? Kiesha herself said that you can't judge people. :p I judge her actions tho. This is just one more thing to add up hatred and controversy in the world, one more "truth teller" who attacks anyone who doesn't think the same way and condamns people who doesn't agree to hell, or more like it in this context, to die when the shifts happens. I thought we were pass this already.

I have to say that if "living from the heart" is this... I rather die with the "low energy frequence" people and wish all the luck for the "shifters", since they are going to need all of it living in their "new world" with this style of dealing with things. More rules and more restrictions for free speech... and all the money for the "leader"...

In love, balance and truth...

If you still want to check out what Kiesha Crowther/ Little Grandmother says she is about, here is the link to the official site (I would suggest finding the information from other sources and make up your own mind with what is your spiritual practise of choice tho, there's way more "healthy" ways to truth than having to follow blindly without being able to question things. Not to mention that there are other ways that don't stem from lies to sell better, or lies from not believing in your own message enough to try to carry it out as yourself, which makes me wonder who is the person Kiesha should remember to be, when whole message is based on "remember who you are"...): http://littlegrandmother.net/default.aspx


Maybe the most important thing to remember with her message is: it does NOT come from the indigenous elders of any kind and isn't, as it is, what indigenous tribes teach or have ever teached. If you feel ok with that fact and the ongoing claims and lies, then go ahead. She does have some valid points in her message and whether it is from the spiritual council she gets it, or from other new age/conspiracy (sometimes the sources are easy to spot, like the "I AM" thing) forums, but if you want to hear the real indigenous wisdom in the form it has been passed on for generations, I suggest some other source to be sure to get it right. :)


It is really not about being against whole of her message for most of her opposers, it is not about bashing her or that someone with great message should have "degree". Even I am against the degree system modern world loves... It is about truth. It is about when you claim something to be true, it has to be true and there shouldn't be controversy behind it. We NEED transparency, no hidden agendas. It is obvious that she has claimed things that can't be proven "true", things you can check up, facts about where she was born and that she has no connection to native american tribes. This is a lie and it is a lie that native americans (that have heard of hear and pay attention to one more fraud) feel is hurting their integrity. If the message is truly so awesome and good and important, it should be able to stand on it's own without false claims that only hurt it. Kiesha might "degrade" herself from high priestess of all the indigenous tribes and people all around the world, to "spiritual teacher" who gains her knowledge from spirit guides and mother earth or what ever she works with... I know it is possible to receive teachings from the earth itself... Why wouldn't it be enough to be herself to carry out her "teachings"?


Newest of the new news from NDN country (Feb 15th)... Here is newest video against what Kiesha is doing, or maybe more specific description would be, the truth of situation. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=albQnbN4JjQ
Read the text under the video for more information.


And some information about the everyday life in Pine Ridge Oglala Lakota (Sioux) reservate in text: http://www.nativevillage.org/Messages%20from%20the%20People/the%20arrogance%20of%20ignorance.htm


AIM (American Indian Movement) has called action against her as well now. Couple of examples:
http://www.aimsb.org/home.html
http://www.facebook.com/note.php?note_id=200178603326821&id=100001980072428


Why natives should protest Kiesha Crowther? (and other people as well) -video in youtube:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qyolOPbu_go


And channel full of vids against her: http://www.youtube.com/user/dinehwarmother


Facebook group "League of pissed off  NDNZ" for updates in discussion about Kiesha/other frauds and their doings: http://www.facebook.com/home.php?sk=group_141321945930866

Don't pay to pray
Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: educatedindian on July 13, 2012, 12:41:29 pm
Part 2 of Saga's posts from the blog.

--------
I do have little intuitive feeling of Kiesha receiving bit more blame and made outcast even from her own "circles" here, because of gaining so much negative attention, and that some of the blame should go to other exploiters that are/seem to be/seem to have been connected to her, those that are very hush hush about their part in the whole thing now, so that they can continue their own business. Other exploiters are coming (back) in the market now to pick up her leftovers (lets just be honest about it, all of us with non-indigenous roots are very curious about the "secrets" and we ARE easy prey with that curiosity), so be VERY careful when someone is trying to sell you indigenous ways. Of course, I DO believe that she has caused the controversy all by herself, by agreeing not to be truthful in the first place. Think about it: if you act as well as think/be positive, there's no way people will "attack" you or can keep on "attacking" you. Oh... and the victim role and pretending to be sick/poor/fragile when you are not, to gain pity, empathy and more money... And the "I know everything" stuff... huge sign of ego being in power. So please, please, please... watch out and take better care of yourselves out there...

Every prophecy has potential to change before it comes true anyway, whether it is indigenous or "modern", no one knows everything, by asking you not to ACT upon anything, it is just a way to try to get self fulfilling prophecy... We would have "shifted" already, if people would be in balance and try to work towards the better in which ever level they feel they are capable of... The most important thing is to keep your heart, mind and spirit in balance and to keep your actions and thoughts in balance with each other, not to built fantasy castle in your mind and keep doing all the things you know will hurt someone anyway, because you THINK beautifully and think that it makes it up. Not to be in guilt because you feel that you "can't" be you and get stuck either tho, but to accept the responsibility and try to do the best you can, forgiving yourself when you fail. To find your own sacred core and ways to appreciate the life and raise your own spirit, not someones bank account. And to work together with others and share the things you have learned, not to ban people from thinking differently.


***

If you really DO want to support native americans, it might be good to contact the reservates, tribal councils or trustworthy organizations to ask what kind of support they need and how to get it there.

More or less all of the people out here in the internet, who sell "indian secrets or wisdom" are not doing it with elders permission or back up and none of them give the money to native americans. Also, if you really want to show your support to native americans, you buy your "indian jewelry" and other stuff from real native artists, not "made in China".

Of course, you might want to also consider (especially here in Europe), what you can do for people on your own area. Spirit rises from helping others. :) The "old way" is tribe before individual thinking in it's most simple form, working for greater good and the good of the community where you can.

***

March 23rd EDIT:
Latest (not yet confirmed) rumor says that Kiesha Crowther is now claiming to gather the money to Pine Ridge reservation (the one mentioned in videos... wonder if it would have been too much work to find some other name, or if she thinks that mentioning support for the one that has been linked in opposing her makes it all ok? Just speculating...). If the rumor is indeed true, I suggest you do little background check on this, before you believe it and give your money to her. There are tons of  "charity" organisations out there gathering money in their own pockets and ms. Crowther isn't known from her honesty, unfortunately... I repeat myself:  The best way to help reservations, and to be sure that your help gets where it is meant to get, is to contact the reservations directly, or find trusted organization and ask what, why and how.


4th of July EDIT:
It seems that there has been, or was atleast planned, protest against KC on June 30th in Glastonbury. Haven't had time to follow what is going on around her lately, so not sure how that ended up to be. Happy to see that Europe has started to "open their eyes" to at least one trickster, sadly there are lots more...


***

Also, please, please, please, be very cautious with White Eagle Woman and her grandmother drum project... This woman is even more vicious energy than Kiesha.
http://nyc.indymedia.org/en/2009/09/107415.shtml

From the link below, read especially the 4th post:
http://thezeitgeistmovement.com/joomla/index.php?option=com_kunena&Itemid=99999&func=view&catid=8&id=162920&limit=10&limitstart=60 
Lähettänyt Saga klo 1/20/2011   
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2 comments:

SagaJune 4, 2012 5:18 PM
It is probably obvious already that I am not updating the post anymore.

I have noticed talks about she backing off from the most ridiculous claims and supposedly the "native" rituals she was performing on her workshops, don't know if that is the truth, since I haven't been watching her that closely lately... If it is though, I would think that the "harassing" from indigenous people and their supporters will end too and she can focus on the bright side of her message.

Maybe people do change for the better, that would at least be positive news for those that are waiting to create the better world, on truth. ;)

ReplyDelete

SagaJuly 9, 2012 3:35 PM
Going to close the blog this month 07/2012, so if you find the information valid, you are free to copy it somewhere
Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Saga on July 13, 2012, 03:07:55 pm
Good, thanks. :) Could have posted it here myself, but thought that it is better for someone of the actual admins and others to decide, if they want to keep it somewhere, as it IS long as hell... It will be up for a moment still, but will get rid of the rest during this month, so...

And the reason to delete, I just don't feel comfortable with the blog anymore, so I want to clear it out. :) I need a new start for myself and doing some cleaning in every level helps with that, I hope. If it makes any sense. And as I have too many projects already it kind of feels overwhelming to have "loose ends" hanging around that I feel I "should" do something with. But I will keep working on the field to keep Kiesha's kind from having too much audience. :)
Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Saga on July 31, 2012, 09:51:22 am
Yeah... so much for her not being in "indigenous" faking scene, as she will be in here: http://www.starknowledgeconference.com/ (http://www.starknowledgeconference.com/) and her website says this about it:
Quote
Join Little Grandmother for the renowned
Star Knowledge Conference near Phoenix, AZ- a four day gathering celebrating the reunion of the Eagle and the Condor, White Buffalo Calf
Woman and Corn Woman, and the 12th dimensional frequencies of 2012.

This year, we particularly welcome many
indigenous elders from both the north and
south of Turtle Island, who are coming
to reactivate our ancient wisdom
and give guidance for our walk here on
Mother Earth. We are meeting at the
gorgeous Carefree Resort, outside of Phoenix, AZ, where stars sparkle in the night sky, and
the days are full of gentle desert breezes.

I think I remember the Chief Golden Light Eagle being part of the forum discussions too, no time to browse to it now though...
Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: ShadowDancer on August 01, 2012, 12:19:09 am
Here is the main thread on Golden Light Eagle

http://www.newagefraud.org/smf/index.php?topic=2897.0

and the Star Knowledge Conference

http://www.newagefraud.org/smf/index.php?topic=2752.0
Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: czech on August 01, 2012, 09:45:19 am
The organizers of her Czech seminar are now inviting attendees to bring a blossom of their favorite flower to be put around Kiesha on the stage.

http://www.vstupenkov.cz/FileStorage/LGM_informace.pdf (the bold sentence in the middle of page)

Normally we do this at funerals...

Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: czech on August 09, 2012, 01:25:07 pm
Photos from Kiesha Crowther's event in Prague, Czech Republic:

https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.351836114896783.85000.156460114434385&type=1
Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Autumn on August 09, 2012, 04:20:22 pm
Grrr!  She just makes me so angry.  She continues to rake it in with her false history, her seminars, and her book sales.  People are just so gullible.   (But then, "it is the message, not the messenger" or/but "earth mother is crying out for our help" or/but "just ignore all the negativity and stay in your heart").

Maybe she will step on a poison piece of glass:  https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=351836391563422&set=a.351836114896783.85000.156460114434385&type=3&theater

Well, I guess I just flunked the test (I didn't stay positive).  I truly do believe, however, that all the plastic shamans and new age frauds do more harm to individuals than all the criminals combined by sending people on a wild-goose chase and wasting their precious time when they should just be enjoying life.





Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Superdog on August 15, 2012, 07:04:24 pm
Here's a post reiterating stuff we already know.  It contains an e-mail from Robert McDonald, Communications director for the CSKT.

http://www.scoop.it/t/messenger-for-mother-earth/p/1217316182/little-grandmother-kiesha-crowther-hoax

"     I send a question about Kiesha Crowther to this e-mail address robertmc@cskt.org and received the following answer:

"In recent months, employees of the Confederated Salish and Kootenai Tribes began receiving numerous phone calls and emails regarding someone who claims to be a shaman, who claimed to receive their training from a Salish elder named Falling Feather. This self-proclaimed shaman, Kiesha Crowther, who calls herself Little Grandmother, first came to our attention because of these calls. We have no record of the family names she's shared in her biographical posts on the Internet.
To make it clear to others who contact this Tribal nation, the Salish and Kootenai have absolutely no connection to Kiesha Crowther. Her numerous video talks posted online are not based in any kind of authentic knowledge from this tribe.

We have been contacted by people from Hawaii, Spain, Denmark, Switzerland and Germany who appear to have given her great fees to speak. Zero dollars from those arrangements have come to support our language, culture, or safety net programs of this reservation. At best, she is a stranger to us. At worst, she has used our name to promote a profitable image. "

Robert McDonald
Communications Director -- CSKT
robertmc [at] cskt.org
406-675-2700, Ext. 1222
cellular 406-249-1818

    Pi-Qui
http://www.cineversity.tv/"


Superdog
Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Autumn on October 06, 2012, 02:26:52 am
This is driving me nuts.  Does anyone know who this woman is?  (I attached two photos, so I hope they show up). They came from this site:  http://www.heart4earth.nl/photo-gallery/72157629304595789.html

She appeared with LG at her two events in Holland this year.  At the last one in June (Crystal Ceremony), she presented the crystal to LG with great ceremony, bowing low to her.  LG said the crystal had been hidden since the last pole shift and passed on from "wisdom keeper to wisdom keeper and shaman to shaman" and had been held by the Mayans and that this lady was a Mayan.  Do Mayans really dress like that?  The crystal was wrapped in a light blue cloth and when LG unwrapped it, she said it had not been uncovered for "hundreds and hundreds of years" (I swear, that is what she said and the 1400 people in the audience did not burst out laughing!)

I would really love to know if anyone can shed any light on the identity of this woman.


Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Ingeborg on October 06, 2012, 12:31:52 pm

The fotos were taken at a lecture done by Crowther on Feb 11, 2012 in the town of Zeist/Netherlands. Crowter is the only lecturer mentioned, so I presume the woman on the fotos is from the audience.

The ad for Crowther's lecture is quite interesting, though:
http://www.earth-matters.nl/14/4316/media-en-agenda/kiesha-crowther-little-grandmother-terug-in-nederland-11-februari-in-zeist.html?limit=300

Translation:
„Keisha Crowther already came to the Netherlands twice before. We are glad to be able to receive her again on February 11. She will bring us important messages especially for present times.

Keisha is known as Little Grandmother; a name which she was given when, at the age of 30, she was initiated by her teachers in the Indian culture of the Sioux and Salish. As a child, she already received special messages and lessons from the ancestors. It is her task to share her knowledge she received by Mother Earth and the ancestors with humankind. She is one of the most important „Wisdom Keepers“ of this movement and one of the founders of the „Tribe of Many Colors“."

[Emphasis mine]

Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Defend the Sacred on October 06, 2012, 07:08:25 pm
I don't think the traditional descendants of the Maya wear white saris. Wrong kind of Indian.
Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Autumn on October 08, 2012, 11:03:57 pm
I thought she looked more like the wrong kind of Indian also, Kathryn. 

Ingeborg, I don't know anything about the lecture you mentioned, but I do know that this woman appeared with LG at at least two events put on by Heart4Earth in Holland.  Heart4Earth appears to be a business that organizes events for people like LG and handles all the ticket sales, location, logistics, etc.  They listed people like David Icke and Michael Beckwith as people they have handled events for, but it appears that LG and a man named Carlos Palada (supposedly a Mayan) is the only person they have handled events for during 2012.  On their website:  http://www.heart4earth.nl/ they posted the photos of several events they put on for LG and one event for Carlos Palada.  The photos I posted were from an event they have labeled as 11-2-12, which is obviously a typo since that date has not yet occurred.  I am assuming they meant it to say 11-2-11.  There is no video of that event, but the woman I was questioning about appears with LG in photos (the ones I posted).  Also, there are several photos of Carlos Palada also appearing at LG's event.  He is wearing a stripped poncho.   

The same woman appears in the video for the June 16 crystal ceremony, as I previously mentioned, and presented the crystal to LG.  I just thought perhaps someone would recognize her so that is why I posed the question.  She was definitely not a member of the audience.  If she was at the February event as you mentioned, she is traveling with LG to all her Holland events and perhaps other events as well.

Maybe at some point in the future, someone will recognize this woman and will able to shed some light on the issue (my first thought was that perhaps it was LG's mom).  LG simply introduced her as a "Mayan" who had been holding the sacred crystal safe for "hundreds and hundreds" of years (well, maybe not the same person holding it for hundreds and hundreds of years, but a long, long, long, line of people holding it for hundreds and hundreds of years and she was the current "holder of the crystal").

Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: ShadowDancer on October 09, 2012, 12:36:55 am
The photos I posted were from an event they have labeled as 11-2-12, which is obviously a typo since that date has not yet occurred.  I am assuming they meant it to say 11-2-11. 

Actually the date is correct and is not a typo.  The event was in Holland, hence the European date convention which is day/month/year, unlike in the USA of month/day/year.  So yes, the photos are from February 2, 2012.   :)

Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Autumn on October 09, 2012, 02:55:26 am

Actually the date is correct and is not a typo.  The event was in Holland, hence the European date convention which is day/month/year, unlike in the USA of month/day/year.  So yes, the photos are from February 2, 2012.   :)

Yes, ShadowDancer, you are right.  That always catches me up, but it was not February 2, 2012, as you said, but  February 11, 2012, so it is not for the same event that Ingeborg mentioned, but for the Heart4Earth event.
Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: tecpaocelotl on October 29, 2012, 10:17:03 pm
And speaking of Mayan, just depends which community you're talking about:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/citlali/311182010/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/csbsjuoea/4725038108/
Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Autumn on November 27, 2012, 07:25:52 pm
Not that it really matters, but something appears to be happening on the LG front.  Betsey Lewis is no longer doing her website.  It is now done by Dragonfly Dimensions.  The only thing I could find online under Dragonfly Dimensions was a blog by that name and a website for someone by the name of Sandra Zahn who is an "Art Therapist, Breathworker and Rhythm Facilitator throughout the United States, consulting for educational systems, social service agencies and particularly Native American communities." 

The other thing is that LG has cancelled all appearances for the rest of the year.  I certainly do not wish her any ill will, but personally I would think that the performance she gave in Holland would take its toll on a person.  That was certainly some performance.   If you have the stomach for it, the whole two-and-a-half hour ceremony is posted on YouTube:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lMmZgOUo9wc  (At mark 18.37, you can see the "Maya" dressed in a sari present the crystal to her).

Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: secondsight on December 25, 2012, 12:26:08 am
Just came across a page on her website that says she is moving to Holland and not coming back to the US.

Guess her profit margin is the strongest there.

She seems to have developed a strange method of staring at the crowd...kinda creepy.

Almost like an actor overdoing a role as a magican! :)
Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Autumn on December 25, 2012, 02:41:27 am
Thanks, Secondsight.  I didn't see that.  It was sort of hidden away.  http://www.littlegrandmother.net/New_Message_12-2012.html

Wonders never cease with that woman, do they?  She always has a good story (script) to tell.
 
I don't mean to minimize her ill health (if that is true), but many energy healers will tell you that illness is just suppressed emotion that manifest itself in the physical body.  Carrying around the kind of lies she has told over the past few years would have to have an effect eventually.  I wonder what "diseased" organs they removed?
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Defend the Sacred on December 25, 2012, 02:51:46 am
I wonder whether she paid her mortgage before she fled.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Autumn on December 25, 2012, 01:04:03 pm
I wonder whether she paid her mortgage before she fled.

Or if she took her children with her.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Superdog on December 28, 2012, 07:06:48 pm
Not an unexpected move.  I'd guess the main motive would be financial.  I see she's now selling "private healing sessions" straight up on her website, which is a break from her previous mode of operation.  The latest of her events in the US have been cancelled, including the Star Knowledge conference she used to highlight on her videos.

Even her FB community page is now inundated with folks exposing her and the fact that nothing happened on December 21st just cracked the shaky foundation she's been playing on all this time.  So, it seems she needed a change to the narrative and I wouldn't necessarily put it past her to claim she and her other eleven mysterious "wisdom keepers" were successful in preventing a pole shift or something along that line....just wait....

Superdog
Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Autumn on February 21, 2013, 06:02:15 pm
Mmmm.  Interesting.  ;D  They start the day with "mediation".  Does that mean the kids are at each others throats the minute they get in the door, or does that mean they have some long-standing disputes they need to settle?    http://www.littlegrandmother.net/Feb.html

Quote
For example: the very first spiritual school in the Netherlands, recognized by the government has opened its doors. The brave and pioneering women who have started this school are all volunteers, teaching not only the necessary curriculum but also starting each day with mediation, and teaching the children how to interact and speak to nature. The children are flooding in, yet sadly, this marvelous school will have to close its doors if they can not find and afford a suitable building. It’s at times like this that we must step in and help where it is needed. So many times we look out our windows and do not like the world we live in but how often do we do something about it? There are many things we can do to make this world a better place, helping this school is one of them. So I am excited to announce that proceeds from the ticket sales to this event will be go to keeping this school going.
(Bolding Mine)

I know she is well-loved in the Netherlands, but are there any readers from Holland who can give any details about this school?  Her followers just accept anything she says without question, but to have a school run by volunteers that is recognized by the government (and receiving I suppose some kind of government financial support) sounds very suspect to me.

Also, if this is a real school and she wants to help them, why doesn't she simply ask for donations on her website for the school, giving their website or contact information so people could donate?  After all, with the millions and millions of her followers  ;D, surely they would want to help and the school would be awash in cash.

More suspicious stuff from LG (IMHO).

Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Peasant on February 26, 2013, 08:18:10 am
Hey, some of you may remember me from a few years ago. I was deep into New Age stuff for some time and had been active on LG's website and forums, but too many things didn't add up and I started to post here. I'm sad to hear that Kiesha Crowther has now moved to my country, but I can affirm that it must be good business here. A lot of New Agers here have no idea about shamanism and Indians but they all claim to be an incarnated one or to have supernatural powers, derived from fantasized rituals. I actually live in Utrecht where LG's next big event will be and if I wouldn't be supporting this woman by paying for the ticket, I would gladly go there, all undercover and stuff.  ;)

Very first spiritual school, recognized by the government? Sounds like pure BS to me, if it were real and if she was really fundraising she could at least tell the name of the school. The only 'spiritual' schools here that are supported by the government are 'vrije scholen', based on the anthroposophical teachings of Rudolf Steiner, and teachers there get paid just like any other teacher. The government does not recognize spiritual centers, these aren't subject to any regulations so the government has no reason to recognize anything. She also doesn't explicitly say that all proceeds from the ticket sales go to this school, and knowing her, I'm sure most of that money must be ending up in her pocket.

I'm very curious about where she lives, would be shocking to meet her somewhere...
Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Superdog on February 26, 2013, 04:29:25 pm
Wow....her FB page has been overtaken by a young man named David Franks who is obsessed with her.  Reading the messages I'd call the behavior stalking and it's pretty alarming....

Here's one of many of his posts.  A lot of them along the same line.  He keeps posting photos as well including one where he's holding what I'm assuming is an engagement ring.  Scary...I'm wondering if this might explain some of the motive for not returning to the US.  While I don't agree at all one bit with Crowther's behavior regarding what we've said in this board....I don't condone David's behavior for anyone. 

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Kiesha-Crowther-Little-Grandmother/217565231663661?fref=ts&filter=2

David Franksposted toKiesha Crowther-"Little Grandmother"
Sunday
"So Many things changed that night! Everything about me changed but one! Why can't I be around people! Why can't I spend time with my family without Bering the burden to tell them! Why kiesha, why! You no I will never quit until you decide to stop me! Am I going to have to pich a tent in the middle of the woods! I will for you, and I will just chill, with the animals, they will bring my fill, I no they will! A time will come that everyone on this planet will feel as you and I, and I no my job is to not let them die! "


Really crazy sounding and really detached from reality...IMHO

Superdog
Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Epiphany on February 26, 2013, 06:19:37 pm
Whoa, the David Franks posts are seriously disturbed and disturbing, stalker city.

Posted on his own FB page:

Quote
David Franks
23 minutes ago via mobile
Even though I'm in so much pain. I would walk all the way for you, I love you kiesha! Love and just be love.

Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Superdog on February 26, 2013, 09:11:48 pm
He just posted a new photo on her page of himself in the hospital.  From reading his FB page it seems he got into a fight with his cousin's boyfriend.  Pretty violent.  He's got three broken ribs and he stabbed the guy he was fighting.  From his comments he's still waiting to hear the extent of the injuries on the guy he stabbed and doesn't feel sorry at all for it. 

Going back on Kiesha's community fb page it seems at the beginning of the month David posted suicidal messages on her wall telling her he needed help and if she didn't contact him by 9AM he would shoot himself.  I'm pretty sure this is the event he keeps talking about when he alludes to her saving him.  From there he's really been obsessed with her.  Not a stable character at all.

Superdog
Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Autumn on February 27, 2013, 02:34:18 am
Thanks for your input, Peasant.  That is pretty much what I figured.

That is pretty alarming stuff about her Facebook page and the stalker.  I guess that is a hazard of posting tons of videos of yourself on YouTube and just one of the hazards of Facebook.

P.S.:  I just wonder if that is really her official Facebook page?  I have seen some Facebook pages that were set up by others.  I remember I saw one that was threatened with a lawsuit for copyright infringement by Debbie McFarland, who was LG's assistant when she lived in Santa Fe.  I am not sure if she is still her assistant, but I know she was traveling with LG in 2012 when LG went to Australia and England.

I am not on Facebook myself, so I can only see posts if they have the settings open for everyone to view.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: critter - a white non-ndn person on February 27, 2013, 06:11:51 am
Regarding Franks.. I guess if per Keisha, positive attracts positive, then nut job attracts nut job.

Not that I think this is OK or anything..
Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: educatedindian on February 27, 2013, 06:09:56 pm
I join in wishing that Crowther is not harmed by Franks, and that Franks gets professional help. Contrary to what the most dedicated Crowther followers might assume, we never wish any harm upon Crowther, only that her fake ceremony selling and claims about NDNs stop, and that she make reparations to the Lakota and Salish.

But like does attract like, much of the time. When she speaks to followers like a little girl, talks about voices and visions and how super special she is and stands at gatherings posing with a large crystal, asking to be worshipped, should it be any surprise all that attracts some mentally unstable people?
Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Autumn on February 28, 2013, 03:15:58 am
Yes, he is a seriously disturbed person and I hope he gets help.  No, Educatedindian, it is not a surprise that she has and will attract mentally unstable people.

I am answering my own question here.  David seems to have created his own Facebook page for her:  https://www.facebook.com/daivid8936z

And he can also be found posting on what seems to be her official Facebook page:  http://www.facebook.com/pages/Kiesha-Crowther-Little-Grandmother/217565231663661
Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Autumn on February 28, 2013, 04:28:46 am
Here is her current bio (translated from Dutch):

http://translate.google.com/translate?langpair=nl|en&u=http://www.lotusbeurs.nl/nieuws/

Quote
Since being initiated on her path as shaman and wisdom keeper at the age of 30, Kiesha has begun to share teachings and to conduct ceremonies and healings for the benefit of humanity and Mother Earth. She feels her responsibility to be carrying and communicating earth wisdom and the ancient knowledge for our current age. Toward this end, she has released videos of her talks, All which are freely available on YouTube and All which have been viewed by Hundreds of thousands of people so far all over the globe. Her work as a Wisdom Keeper also includes In the planting of sacred crystals in very specific locations around the world for the renewal and strength control or Mother Earth's precious ley lines. Her powerful message emphasizes how to shift individual and planetary consciousness, how to live in the heart in right relationship with Mother Earth, and to remember who we are-THE GREAT I AM.

Little Grandmother will be selling and signing her book english "message for the Tribe of Many Colors" and will speak to the public about the important message she carries for Mother Earth.
(Bolding Mine)

Yeah, in those YouTube videos, she talks about being initiated by the Sioux-Salish tribe and being one of 12 wisdom keepers (who she communicates with by opening a window in front of her), so if she wanted a fresh start in a new country, why not delete the videos and create a new bio?
Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: tsalagi43 on March 15, 2013, 04:04:09 pm
Back a few months ago, I tried to get SOMEONE to get something going when she was coming back to Phoenix, but no one could be bothered.  They're rather sit on their butts and whine instead of actually doing something.  Problem is, this was right after Russell Means had passed, and the people putting on this sham of a show dared to use his name, saying HE APPROVED OF HER AND WHAT SHE DOES!
You'd think that would be enough to get people going, but, apparently not.
Title: Re: About me ...
Post by: Litsehimmel on April 08, 2013, 08:28:46 am
With regard to LG (Keisha Crowther) I sent an email to Admin explaining the current state of things. Here's an extract of said email:

Quote
Well, here's the deal: the school does indeed meet all the criteria for official primary education as stated in Dutch Law. The qualifications of the teachers is up to parr, as is the pupil following system. Then again, that might say more about Dutch Law than about the school itself. The online Education Inspection Report can be found here http://www.onderwijsinspectie.nl/binaries/content/assets/Nbo+rapport/ibbo---primair-onderwijs-advies.pdf  Unfortunately, it's all in Dutch, so it probably won't do you any good.

The official address of establisment is Vijlen, municipality Vaals, province of Limburg. It has a temporary address in Kerkrade, porvince of Limburg. Interestingly enough, both towns are about a 30 minute drive from Maastricht which is, yep, current hometown of LG! And it gets worse. The IBBO (Ik Ben Bewust Onderwijs = I Am Aware Education) school was founded by Alphonsine Heijnen-Leurs and Gentille Boymans. When I read those names (not your typical true type Dutch names by any way) little alarm bells started to go off.

Alphonsine Heijnen-Leurs can be found here: http://www.linkedin.com/pub/alphonsine-heijnen-leurs/31/ba7/563
therapist/psycho-social therapist/polyenergetic therapist/regression therapist/reincarnation therapist/hypno therapist/NLP therapist/relation therapist/Inner Child therapist/system therapist/Voice Dialogue therapist
She also has a Facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/alphonsine.heijnenleurs

Gentille Boyman can be found here: http://www.linkedin.com/profile/view?id=85305802&authType=name&authToken=TADQ&trk=prof-sb-browse_map-name
She has a FB account as well: https://www.facebook.com/gentille.boymans

As for taking down Keisha: you're going to have a rough time of it! I reacted to a topic on her about a year ago, and the responses I got were so incredibly venomous and rabid that it surprised the heck out of me. The Netherlands are rife with followers and practitioners of New Age stuff, and trying to debunk it there is like trying to part the Red Sea. Ain't happening. Having said that, if you would like more info on her or other frauds, just give me a holler.

Regards, Litsehimmel
Title: Re: Re: About me ...
Post by: Litsehimmel on April 08, 2013, 08:41:20 am
Finally ... I translated part of the introductory text of the school website http://tinyurl.com/csqqpr7.

Quote
Our education is for ages 4-18 and up. It aims at recognizing the internal process. Individual help and tailor-made education are the focal points in this! Every child/young adult has the right to attention, love and coaching. IBBO takes the passion and talents of every child as starting points. These are emphasized in order to develop further. Attention is also given to the developmental points of the child/young adult. These developmental points are embraced instead of frowned upon.

IBBO works from a positive approach and views the learning process of the child/ young adult with an open and honest attitude. IBBO is temporarily established in Kerkrade. Strolls through beautiful nature, being creatively active are the focal points besides study hours. Our basic concept is that curiosity, a sense of well being and involvement are conditions for the further development of the child/young person. If these are partially or completely lacking, a child / young adult develops not at all or insufficiently. Mentors, parents and child/young adult then jointly search for solutions to increase the sense of well being and/or involvement.

This attitude offers students many possibilities for taking initiative and forming their own learning process. This means that we don't just follow how students develop with regard to 'educational' subjects as they have been described in the core objectives of primairy and secundary education, but also with regard to all other apsects of the development. We think it's important to discover and emphasize the talents of each child/young adult, and to offer students the chance of further developing these. In order to accomplish this, there is a broad spectrum of activities with regard to art, culture, nature, music, sports, technical subjects and foreign languages. Furthermore it is imperative for the development of each individual that we guide each child/young adult along the road of self awareness.

It could be conceived as a genuine attempt at developing all aspects of a child's character. Having said that, I wonder how these kids will cope in today's society. Learning about nature and creative arts is a good thing but unfortunately does nothing towards being able to deal with the rat race which is going on. Wonder if the 'sense of well being' of these kids will remain intact once they have been inundated in the pool of dishonesty, greed and pro-personal-gain which is covering the earth today  :-\
Title: Re: Re: About me ...
Post by: Autumn on April 08, 2013, 11:32:03 pm
Thanks for all the information, Litsehimmel.  I am still baffled as to how a government-recognized school can run on all volunteer teachers (as LG said).

This is from their site (very bad Google translation):

Quote
Kiesha

A few weeks ago Ibbo by Jean Freer, Kiesha Crowther and her partner Joyce Brown may encounter. Kiesha, known as "Little Grandmother, wisdom keeper, together with Joyce offered Ibbo get support.

For those who do not yet know, we refer to the website: www.littlegrandmother.net
Kiesha is March 30, 2013 in Irene Congress Hall of the Jaarbeurs in Utrecht met 500 people from all over Europe came to her. Alphonsine and Gentille were with her on the podium after Kiesha on Ibbo told. The reactions were heartwarming and many people have pledged their support.
Read the article by Kiesha here. Ibbo named therein. icon Little Grandmother
  http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=nl&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ibbo.eu%2Findex.php%3Foption%3Dcom_content%26view%3Darticle%26id%3D91%3Akiesha%26catid%3D68%26Itemid%3D243

No, there is no question about "taking LG down".  Her followers are very vicious when questioned.  But we can put as much truth as possible in one place so that those who have questions can get some answers. 

Do you have any idea who the "Mayan" is who presented with her in the Crystal Ceremony?  See my comments on her thread:  http://www.newagefraud.org/smf/index.php?topic=2871.1140
Title: Re: Re: About me ...
Post by: Litsehimmel on April 09, 2013, 08:32:33 am
Kathryn ...

Quote
Sometimes we get banned users trying to join with proxy servers, so sometimes we have to make sure it's not someone who is going to troll or harass our members. Sorry if we seem hypervigilant at times, and welcome to the crew. :)

I read through the discussions with the other Saskia and understand why you would want to check whether I was the same person. Being 'hypervigilant' seems prudent, so no problem there . And thanks for the welcome   ;)

Autumn ... the teachers at the IBBO school have, according to the government report, the correct qualifications for teaching. The school board consists of the following persons:
*Alphonsine Heijnen-Leurs, president (mentioned earlier);
*Herman Boijmans, secretary; cannot find anything about him on the net, but I suspect him to be the partner of Gentille Boijmans-Schellings, mentioned earlier; Gentille has a site called  Waardeneducatie (Values Education; http://www.waardeneducatie.nl/fs.htm) which is part of the Human Values Foundation Holland which is an "independent, non-profit voluntary foundation which aims to promote value education in all layers of society, especially in the established educational institutions and currently restricted to primary education and the first years of secundary education"; another member of this family is also connected linked to from the school site: Myrthe Boijmans at http://www.myrtheboymans.nl/;
*Frans Heijnen, treasurer; also basically untraceable on the net, but presumably partner of A. Heijnen-Leurs;
*José Pfeiffer, board member; not found any info on this person as of yet, besides her having a Facebook page which is sewed up tighter then, well ...
*Stefania Dinklage, board member; linked via her Facebook to Alphonsine Heijnen-Leurs, José Pfeiffer and Gentille Boijmans; no further info as of yet

As for the *cough* 'Mayan' lady present at the crystal thingie, I've been looking for her but haven't found anything yet. However, her face does seem familiair, as if she made the news in one way or another fairly recently. I'll continue looking into who she is, will let you know as soon as I've found anything.

LH
Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Litsehimmel on April 09, 2013, 01:06:36 pm
Has anybody by any chance seen this page? 

http://www.nederlandsmedianetwerk.nl/profiles/blogs/kiesha-crowther-aka-little-grandmother-of-hoe-men-als-zelf

It is from a blog by Pi-Qui Baltink, director of a Dutch media company called Cineversity.TV who was planning on doing an interview with LG in Febr. 2012 but iced the idea after "hearing stories". There's some interesting stuff on there, most of all a reply email by LG herself where she defends herself against certain accusations.

LH
Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Superdog on April 09, 2013, 02:58:23 pm
First time I've seen it.  Her responses are as honest as anything else she does....

When she first began advertising herself and the littlegrandmother.net site emerged, she absolutely claimed over and over and over again that she was "made shaman for the Sioux and Salish tribes"....when we began questioning that, the story changed to a mysterious person named "Falling Feathers" who supposedly gave her the impression that she was "the" shaman for the Sioux and Salish tribes.....now she's claiming she never did any of these things.  That's why this thread is valuable, not to mention those old videos of her where she directly states that she was "made shaman for the Sioux and Salish tribes".  The rebuttal about Don Alejandro (Wandering Wolf) is also a lie.  She absolutely did claim that he publicly recognized her as a "wisdom keeper".  That story remained for years until Wandering Wolf's FB page submitted a direct comment about her claiming to not even know who she is. 

The rest of it is deflection....you won't see anything in this thread claiming she was running sweatlodges...she used to post pictures of herself holding a pipe surrounded by folks in one of her crystal laying ceremonies....those pictures disappeared not long after her questionable background began to be exposed as well.

Nice try Kiesha....but a serious fail....

Superdog
Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Litsehimmel on April 09, 2013, 05:32:13 pm
Here's someone else liasoned to LG. Her next event is a "meditation received from Little Grandmother Kiesha" on April 11th. This is her site:

http://www.natuurlijkdakini.nl/index.html

She offers - amongst other things - sweat lodge and medicine wheel ceremonies. Here's a translated part of her introduction about herself.

Quote
"I am Lilian Timmermans and, besides being an energetic therapist with a Shamanistic wink, I'm also a massagist and herbalist. But I am much more ... I was born in 1960, so by now I am a wise woman. Lilian means Lily and is the symbol of Lotus, the sacred flower. I have also prepared a flower remedy out of the White Lily and pure quartz. Initially to remind myself of the presence of the Devine within myself ... and the accompanying affirmation is ... from the swamps of Mother Earth, risen from the waters, searching for the light, pure of heart, always moving in the spiral of being ... I AM

I live together with Wim, my support for over 29 years already, a Red Sky Walker and with Lakota, a female Australian shepherd, a White Magician like myself. The Indians used to call the Aussie "Ghost eye's" and consider them to be their Sacred Dogs."

She ends her page about sweat lodge ceremonies and her page on prayers with O Mitakuye Oyasin but her page on spirals with O MISAKYO OYASIN. Finally, she received her insight due to a divorce, the early death of her mother, and rape. These things made her realize that there was "more between heaven and earth". She then followed KI-courses, intuitive and other massage courses, an energetic therapist and herbalist study, and finally found her calling in shamanism. Most of the courses she gives and the articles she wrote are inundated with 'native american' lore, and saying, and ceremonies, etc.

Not sure if she's harmful, but she definitely misappropriates other cultures.

LH
Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Epiphany on April 09, 2013, 05:46:44 pm
Quote
...Kiesha has never presented or described herself as a Sioux shaman.

Yet here are some photos of Kiesha doing her version of "Sioux shaman":



Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Litsehimmel on April 09, 2013, 07:44:17 pm
Well, she is still described as "the world's most famous shaman" for an upcoming event on May 18th in The Netherlands. http://tinyurl.com/czb556u

Living in The Netherlands as she does now, you would think that she would ask her Dutch helpers as well as people announcing events to keep the facts straight, like she claims she does and did. However, as this translation shows ...

Quote
Saturday 18 may, Little Grandmother: Kiesha Crowther
The New Age has dawned…

Kiesha Crowther, also known as ‘Little Grandmother’, is the world's most famous shaman. On Saturday 18 May she gives a lecture at the Spiritual Café Heerlen (province of Limburg, close to where she lives) From a young age, Kiesha received telepathic messages from her ancestors, which often were accompanied by visions and clairvoyant dreams. Around age thirty she was initiated as a shaman and chosen by various indigenous tribes as Keeper of Wisdom. Since then she has traveled the world as 'Little Grandmother' to share important information.

... she still continues the fabrication of being a shaman. Hmm ...

LH
Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Autumn on April 09, 2013, 08:38:33 pm
And the above photo was on a website just last year:  http://spiritueelspectrum.nl/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/kiesha-crowther-in-zeist1.pdf

And this is a bad Google translation from that page:

Quote
An old powerful Atlantic crystal (of the caliber that the world consciousness can
change) has been reactivated and will end this summer ceremony on the Earth
returned. When looking for a place where this grand ceremony the
best place to find the Elders (chiefs of various Mayan, Hopi and
Navajo Indians) come together. If they look at the world they see no limits
of countries and cities, but surrounds them what is happening energetically. At the
scanning the Earth currently see them mostly black on the surface, with
exception of three areas where it is much lighter: Norway, Denmark and
notably the Netherlands (!). Above shows a vortex of golden energy to circulate. Here
are already enough people who live from the heart. "You should be so proud of
yourselves! "she said

Ah, Holland!  The land of milk and honey!

But, KC/LG, the internet is everywhere.
Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Litsehimmel on April 09, 2013, 08:50:34 pm
Milk, yes. Plenty of cows here. Kiesha does a fair bit of 'milking' herself, I'd say.  ::)
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Defend the Sacred on April 10, 2013, 06:30:09 pm
"Amaya" the crystal whacko recently doing scam shows with Crowther now has her own thread, here: http://www.newagefraud.org/smf/index.php?topic=4043.0
Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Epiphany on April 10, 2013, 06:45:36 pm
Quote
I think i have never met a more elaborate liar than Kiesha Crowther... When i first found her videos and her messages, it generally felt positive, and it seemed plausible to me that she was really recognized by the "Sioux/Salish" tribes, because i didn't know anything about them or about indigenous spirituality. I guess this is the case for many if not all of her supporters.

Later on it just got scarier and stranger with the 2012 mumbo jumbo and more and more talk of Crowther's supposed extremely extraordinary abilities, and i noticed how i personally had actually regressed in my emotional development since i found this Tribe of Many Colors stuff... i was overly sensitive and could get really angry about very small issues, things that i would otherwise just laugh about. Stuff like this is bad for people's psyche. I've learned a lot though and i'm fully recovered now, lol.

http://forum.rickross.com/read.php?12,95049,96670#msg-96670 (http://forum.rickross.com/read.php?12,95049,96670#msg-96670)
Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Epiphany on April 12, 2013, 03:09:24 am
From her upcoming Beijing tour promos (google translations):

Quote
300 people class specific curriculum content: First, how to use crystal therapy more body; how crystal clear personal energy; how Crystal Healing Earth; how to clean up and put their ideas on the crystal medium. ? How to use Crystal to protect themselves against a variety of radiation injury.

Quote
Father was white and mother is Sioux / Salish tribe.


Quote
About 200 years ago, North American aboriginal prophecy will become wisdom guardian and mentor, a blond woman comes in a new era of the Earth to teach people the true wisdom and love.

http://www.felcn.com/xinwendongtai/gongsixinwen/20121228/45.shtml (http://www.felcn.com/xinwendongtai/gongsixinwen/20121228/45.shtml)

Quote
Dear family members:

The first batch of 300, the imprint of the "home" series Crystal have all been sold out, and now we begin the pre-sale No. 301 - 1000 Crystal. If necessary, the family can be photographed after payment Remarks numbers, we will contact you by phone to confirm. To ensure that orders are not canceled by the system, we will in the form of a virtual logistics for your shipment, you confirm.

Delivery date in April 2013. Please keep the phone unblocked, when we will be the first time for you to express.

Because of the large number of crystal, small grandmother they need a personal blessing and then transported to Beijing, so please understand.

Bless you, my dear family

Quote
Piece of crystal in your hands, it comes from the United States a holy mountain, the small grandmother personally blessed in hand, has to have a deep connection with Mother Earth, and on behalf of our family's imprint.

Quote
All the contents of the box:
1, small grandmother blessings Crystal
2 small grandmother wrote friends buy crystal folding
3 small grandmother autographed card

Quote
You buy Crystal each a small grandmother in the United States himself in hand blessing, purified. You still need purification,

http://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a1z10.1.3-8526892120.3.5S1xva&id=21550916404& (http://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a1z10.1.3-8526892120.3.5S1xva&id=21550916404&)
Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Freija on April 12, 2013, 07:45:52 am
Quote
At the scanning the Earth currently see them mostly black on the surface, with
exception of three areas where it is much lighter: Norway, Denmark and
notably the Netherlands (!). Above shows a vortex of golden energy to circulate. Here
are already enough people who live from the heart. "You should be so proud of
yourselves! "she said

Oops...used to be "much lighter" in Sweden, but apparantly the light went out and got transferred to the Netherlands.
I wonder if "the light" equals money?  8) 8) ::)
Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Autumn on April 13, 2013, 12:53:47 am
Ah, China!  The land of milk and honey.  But, wait, they do not have the "vortex of golden energy" -- but if enough people buy crystals blessed by LG, there possibly may be a chance!  Yes!  Yes!

Litsehimmel, I have heard LG mention a number of times that the Princess of Holland helped her pick the spot to plant her crystal and also that the princess, along with other wisdom keepers, healers and a Mayan friend *cough*, were present in person when LG planted the crystal at the crossing of two ley lines (energy lines criss-crossing the earth).  I am assuming this is Princess Irene, sister of the current queen, Queen Beatrix (who will leave office 4/30/13 in favor of her son).  Do you have any information on that?  I know that Princess Irene is interested in environmental matters:  http://www.natuurcollege.nl/board -- but it is sort of hard to swallow that she would fall for LG's baloney.  Very sad if she did.

Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Litsehimmel on April 13, 2013, 01:32:24 pm
Hi Autumn,

I also found several references to Kiesha meeting with the princess (who is indeed a staunch environmentalist and spiritual) but the one article where is states that one would be able to 'personally meet the princess' has been removed from the website.

Seeing how the royal family has had many problems in the past resulting from the 'spiritual inclinations' of former queen Juliana (Irene's mother) I think they strenuously adviced the princess to blow the whole thing off. Kiesha does infer that she consults with the princess (which may be true) but as far as I can gather there has not been any public meeting between the two.

LH
Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Autumn on April 13, 2013, 04:47:10 pm
Hi Autumn,

I also found several references to Kiesha meeting with the princess (who is indeed a staunch environmentalist and spiritual) but the one article where is states that one would be able to 'personally meet the princess' has been removed from the website.

Seeing how the royal family has had many problems in the past resulting from the 'spiritual inclinations' of former queen Juliana (Irene's mother) I think they strenuously adviced the princess to blow the whole thing off. Kiesha does infer that she consults with the princess (which may be true) but as far as I can gather there has not been any public meeting between the two.

LH

Thank you, Litsehimmel.  Yes, LG has talked repeatedly about her consultations with the princess and if they are meeting maybe it is not in public, but in private (or not at all).  It appears to me to be just another example of LG's "dropping names" to make herself look more important. 

Here is another question I had about her.  She has talked about her trip to Egypt to the pyramids at Giza last summer (2012).  She said that during their private ceremony inside the pyramids with a crystal, there was a tremendous rumbling sound like an airplane engine taking off and the crystal started spinning around the room with lots of rainbow colors displayed.  After the ceremony, the pyramid they were inside glowed and after they left, she got a report that the glowing spread to the other two pyramids so that all three were glowing.  She claimed that they had "activated" the energies of the pyramids and that those energies were spreading now.  Hurrah!  I have searched and searched online and I cannot find any reports of the pyramids suddenly starting to glow.  You would think that would be newsworthy, wouldn't you?  Also, I cannot find any reports online of the other participants of the trip writing about their amazing experience while with her.  Maybe they were just so stunned, they are speechless, but you would think that they would go home and write about such an amazing experience.  She also said that the pyramids were not tombs -- that no mummy had ever been discovered inside a pyramid -- but that the pyramids were energy producing machines.  Have you heard any stories about this, LH?

There is a devotee of LG who was at the Crystal Ceremony.  He helped LG carry the crystal during the Crystal Ceremony (poor thing, she was trying to hold it up in the air the whole time, so she could carry it around the room so that the over-1,000 participants could send their positive thoughts and prayers to it, and it was so, so heavy) and he also was with LG on her trip to Egypt in 2011 (not when the pyramids glowed, however).  For some reason, she has not posted any photos on her website of her 2012 Egypt trip.  On her 2011 trip, there were around 30 people.  I am not sure how many were involved in 2012.  It was a very expensive trip, over $5,000.  In the photo, the man in question is in the center top with the white tee shirt on.  Do you know anything about him?

Also, Litsehimmel, do you know anything about LG's "wife Joyce" who she mentioned in her newsletter of December 2011?  http://lightworkers.org/wisdom/little-grandmother/147732/little-grandmothers-december-newsletter  Is this the same Joyce Brown mentioned in a prior post I had made from the IBBO school when they mentioned LG's "partner Joyce Brown".  I wonder if she was abused as a child also.  I noticed that at the end of the Crystal Ceremony video, they listed a Joyce DeBruin as LG's manager, but I don't think they are the same person at all.  Joyce DeBruin appears to be a common name in Holland, because several people come up in a Google search.

Yes, she certainly has found her "pot of gold" (or crystal, or not) in Holland! 

Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Defend the Sacred on April 13, 2013, 08:23:50 pm
Kiesha does infer that she consults with the princess

In her psycho head, like all the other people and spirits she thinks are talking to her.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Defend the Sacred on April 13, 2013, 08:27:00 pm
So Kiesha broke up with the woman who was handling much of her business here (writing her emails and web posts for her, because Kiesha can barely write a coherent sentence on her own) and has a new girlfriend/wife who is doing the same job?  We have pictures and background somewhere in this thread about the previous partner. This is the first I've heard of the new one.

I wonder what's become of the ex-girlfriend. Maybe she dumped Kiesha when the lies became too hard to sustain.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Epiphany on April 13, 2013, 08:56:30 pm
So Kiesha broke up with the woman who was handling much of her business here (writing her emails and web posts for her, because Kiesha can barely write a coherent sentence on her own) and has a new girlfriend/wife who is doing the same job?  We have pictures and background somewhere in this thread about the previous partner. This is the first I've heard of the new one.

I wonder what's become of the ex-girlfriend. Maybe she dumped Kiesha when the lies became too hard to sustain.

Looks like the name of prior manager/wife is Jennifer Ferraro. Anyone know if this is the same Jennifer Ferraro?

http://www.jenniferferraro.com/ (http://www.jenniferferraro.com/)

Now I see that it is the same woman:

Quote
She is the editor of Little Grandmother's (Kiesha Crowther) new book Message for the Tribe of Many Colors (release date August 2011)
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Defend the Sacred on April 13, 2013, 09:47:04 pm
Yes, many of us received hostile, threatening emails from the oh-so-spiritual Jennifer.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Autumn on April 14, 2013, 01:33:26 am

I wonder what's become of the ex-girlfriend. Maybe she dumped Kiesha when the lies became too hard to sustain.

I think it is far more likely that she was the one thinking up the stories that Kiesha was acting out, or at least participated in creating them.  Yes, there were or are many emails and messages online from beautyawakens.  Here is Jennifer's website:  http://www.jenniferferraro.com/index.html 

Oops!  I see you have already posted it Epiphany.  She probably helped LG write the book (or wrote most of it herself) and then they broke up.  That will be an interesting story if Jennifer ever decides to talk (or a lawsuit).
Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Autumn on April 14, 2013, 02:45:25 am
Here is the timeline:

July 10, 2011, Jennifer writes on her blog of "losing a beloved."  http://jenniferferraro.com/blog/?p=46

Quote
Learning from Orpheus
Posted in Beauty and the Wound on July 10th, 2011

I have been thinking lately of Orpheus, the legendary poet/singer in Greek myth who descended to the underworld to bring back his beloved wife, Eurydice, from death.  He is a guide and bears a secret for all those facing the void of meaning that comes from losing a beloved, the emptiness of grief. Orpheus is my guide somehow through the grief that I have been experiencing as of late.

August 8, 2011 - The Tribe of Many Colors is published.** 

October 4-16, 2011 - LG's Egypt trip, along with her "wife Joyce".

**Correction**  "Message for the Tribe of Many Colors"


Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Epiphany on April 14, 2013, 03:51:04 am
http://www.earthmotherpublishing.com/index.html (http://www.earthmotherpublishing.com/index.html)

Wonder how Ferraro and KC have their finances sorted out now for sales of this book.

earthmotherpublishing.com is Ferraro's site, Santa Fe NM.

I also wonder if KC owes $ to the IRS here in the USA.
Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: MattOKC on April 14, 2013, 04:57:18 am
I was quite interested in the .pdf of her response to this site. I have some thoughts.

First, I found it bizarre that the statement is written about her in the third person, and then signed off BY her. It makes the text sound like a testimonial from someone who knows and is vouching for her, until you find out at the end that she wrote it all about herself, kind of like when self-published authors go write their own book reviews on Amazon.

One thing I need to say that should be a fundamental understanding, is that NO elder or holy person carries any authority that isn't vested in them by their community. In other words, no elder/holy person functions in seclusion, unknown to his/her tribal people, or in secret. In authentic Native traditions, you can ask anyone in the community, "Is so-and-so a medicine man/healer/holy person?" and pretty much anyone will know. These folks aren't a covert priesthood, working in the underground. Tribes know full-well who their own cultural leaders are. I would never claim to be a ceremonial authority, leader, or elder because frankly I know I don't have that sanction by my community. I accept that, and am happy to be a "common man" without having to puff up as some mystical prophet and stuff.

Having said that, I feel very uncomfortable with Kiesha's attempt to settle her bona fides. Her bio is chock full of the opposite of what I've described: secret alliances made with incognito shamans who work secretly, unverifiably, and who are even unknown to their own people. That is antithetical to ANY Native people, although it's effective at impressing the "secret knowledge-craving" new-agers. The whole "secret discipleship" trope sells like hotcakes to new-agers.

For example, she claims to have been ordained by shamans such as "Falling Feather," a name that no traditional Sioux friends of mine have EVER heard (and I have many, all the way up through the current traditional chief families. I asked them). The only "Falling Feather" that Google knows is a dog breeding farm, which I doubt is the place where Kiesha received her special knowledge, but I'm not going to speculate further. There was, at one time, a "Falling Feather Creations" shaman website, but it was just a shop that sold trinkets and terrible drums and chicken feather smudge fans and stuff, and now they're gone.

She writes a section to address, "Is Kiesha really Native?" and then carefully avoids answering that question. The closest she comes is, "My family still lives on a reservation, but I won't tell you who they are." Really? Because on a lot of reservations, white people outnumber Indians! "Living on a reservation" is absolutely not a meaningful suggestion of Indianness. Furthermore, no person who "grew up away from the tribe" would ever be made a shaman. Holy leadership instruction is lifelong and sanctioned by the community. It's not a secret rite of passage comprised of mystical tutelage the way white people fantasize, like when Bruce Wayne went to Tibet to learn from the League of Shadows before becoming Batman. Which is pretty freaking sweet if you're a ninja-trained superhero, but not so much if you want to claim prophetic shamanic authority derived from a living people whose traditions you've simply bullshitted.

No real Indian I've ever met buys into that "tribe of many colors" thing. So when Kiesha answers the "Are you really Native?" question with "I'm a member of the tribe of many colors," that's just a fancier way to say "Nope!" Which reminds me: my goal in the next year or two is to write the WORST new-age "Native shaman" book I possibly can, peddle it for a year to the Sedona/Kiesha types, and then come out as a happy fraud and donate all the money to NARF. I'll be sure to use the term "tribe of many colors," because that's just too comically cheesy to pass up.

I suppose it might impress white people to say that she went through the inipi ceremony. But that's not an initiation into ANYTHING. White people by the thousands are invited into the sweatlodge all the time, and fortunately most simply feel appreciative, and don't go home afterward feeling authorized to proclaim themselves the new uber-shaman of the tribe! Heck, I went to church with a Methodist once, but I'm not going to go around making up stupid stuff and claiming it's "Methodist traditions that I was taught in their ceremony." Or was it Lutheran? Oh, what the hell; if Flatheads can sell inipis, Methodists and Lutherans are interchangeable too.

And by the way, why DOES every wannabe latch on to Sioux words for everything? Is she Flathead or Sioux? Or do newagers think EVERY tribe calls their sweatlodge an "inipi" and say "Mitakuye Oyasin" after any utterance?

The elder who shamanized her is named Brave Heart? REALLY??

The entire sentence "She was initiated into shamanism in the Native American tradition..." is just so self-destroyingly faulty it's laughable, as Shamanism is NOT a "Native American tradition." It's Siberian. I was initiated into Scientology in the Southern Baptist tradition. See? It's as dumb as saying that going to a rap concert where there are black people means you've been initiated into African folk ceremonies. It's not just racist, it's so racist it freaking HURTS.

I give her credit for clarifying that she does not represent any tribe in what she does. But she has to realize that she gives off exactly that appearance when she constantly grabs Sioux words and cites Sioux elders (mythical though they may be) to conduct her Sioux ceremonies. But on the other hand, which is it? Have these Sioux elders initiated her according to tradition in their Native shamanic ways, or is she not their designated acolyte as she works so hard to imply?

It's easy to answer the question, "Who recognizes her as a Shaman?" when you can just cite made-up names of made-up people as her vouchsafes.
Incidentally, you know who recognizes ME as the smartest, most talented, sexiest man alive? Well, there's this one girl, Shawna Little Feather, and um, Starfox Cinnamon Medicine, and Persephone Eagle Thong...but they're all secret people and you can't meet them or look them up or find anyone else who knows them.
It's like the old "I do TOO have a girlfriend! but she lives in...um, Canada!" routine. So Kiesha is vouching for herself by referencing the names of people who vouch for her, even though these are names of people nobody else knows. It's very bizarre to prop up your credibility by invoking references that are so fictionalized, they actually reinforce the doubts you're trying to refute in the first place.

I enjoyed her rambling list of neo-Native sects who accept her. "Three Bears, Sister Wolf, the Cherokee, and Cheyenne individuals, (not the entire Nation of specific tribes, as well as Grandfather Kimmey of the Hopi, the Sami grandmother, the Aboriginal people, the Waitaha, the Maori, the Maya, the Zulu, and including the lamas of Nepal and Tibet..."
I think she forgot "Grandmother Willow" and "The Na'vi of Pandora" and "the Ewoks" and "The lightbearers of Melchizedek's order of Metatron" and whatnot.

When you have to pleadingly reassure people that your council of elders really, honestly, cross my heart, "does exist," you've already strayed from anything remotely familiar to Native traditions. Not even a trail of confetti from a shredded Brooke Medicine Eagle book can lead you back. Furthermore, no true "shaman" would regard any person as a "lower quality of being" for any reason, let alone because they have disputed your claims. How can you tell if someone is thoroughly contrary to any Native religious tradition? For starters, they rank life into a hierarchy of the approval-worthy versus "low quality group of beings." Only colonizers do that.

Also, Adam Yellowbird is a Sedona nuager. Citing him as a reference for your authenticity is like Sarah Palin citing praise by Michele Bachman to prove someone else thinks she's smart. Citing Adam Yellow Bird for credibility is like bragging that your mom won mercury thermometer-eating contests when she was pregnant with you. Citing Adam Yellow Bird for credibility is like getting a Kardashian to vouch that you're down-to-earth. It's like getting Vanilla Ice to assure people you have real street cred. It's like getting Johnny Depp to authenticate how Comanche you are.

Last but not least, any epistle that ends with the term "love vibration" is either a stale new-age cliche-riddled bit of claptrap, or a new Kei$ha song.

Aho! I have spoken, and mitakuye oyasin, and whatnot...
Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: ShadowDancer on April 14, 2013, 01:30:20 pm
I was quite interested in the .pdf of her response to this site. I have some thoughts.

I just want to say thank you for the smile on my face as I sip my coffee this morning.  I absolutely love all the analogies you have used. 

If anyone who comes here seeking info on Keisha's bona fides doesn't grasp the reality of her false claims after reading what you have written they should be ashamed.  I don't think it possible to come up with any more ways of saying she is a fake.
Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Epiphany on April 14, 2013, 03:45:06 pm
"there was an elk herd that I used to sleep with at night" (about 2:42 on this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zCGwDMgW3dc  (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zCGwDMgW3dc))

Before this point in video is Jennifer Ferraro's sales pitch, especially interesting now that Jennifer and Kiesha are no longer partners.

Autumn found this blog post from Jennifer about "losing a beloved" http://jenniferferraro.com/blog/?p=46 (http://jenniferferraro.com/blog/?p=46) and Jennifer's word choices are worthy of note:

Quote
When one loses one’s beloved, whether to death or betrayal or simple everyday abandonment and change—

Sounds like this might have been betrayal. Hopefully Jennifer and others speak out soon about the fraud that is Kiesha.

Even if they helped create the fraud, they can now be whistle blowers.
Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Autumn on April 14, 2013, 03:55:35 pm
I was quite interested in the .pdf of her response to this site. I have some thoughts.

I just want to say thank you for the smile on my face as I sip my coffee this morning.  I absolutely love all the analogies you have used. 

If anyone who comes here seeking info on Keisha's bona fides doesn't grasp the reality of her false claims after reading what you have written they should be ashamed.  I don't think it possible to come up with any more ways of saying she is a fake.

Yes, I agree.  It was hilarious.  I loved the Sarah Palin / Michele Bachmann analogy -- two pea's in a pod.

Not sure what .pdf you are referring to.  Was it in an earlier post?  (She has changed her story so much, she may not agree with that being her story -- now -- as if that would matter.)
Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Autumn on April 14, 2013, 04:06:05 pm
"there was an elk herd that I used to sleep with at night" (about 2:42 on this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zCGwDMgW3dc  (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zCGwDMgW3dc))


 ;D ;D ;D So funny!  Sleeping with the elk herds.  Where was her mom when she was sleeping out in the fields, forests and along the river banks at night?  Not an example of "ideal parenting skills".  Don't you think you would want to know where your child was at night?  I haven't read her book (wouldn't waste my money on it), but if I recall right from what I have read online, it was her dad who did the abusing (at least that is what she said).
Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Litsehimmel on April 16, 2013, 04:10:05 pm
Hi Autumn,

Sorry for not answering these queries, I guess I overlooked this bit  :-\

Here is another question I had about her.  She has talked about her trip to Egypt to the pyramids at Giza last summer (2012).  [cut]  After the ceremony, the pyramid they were inside glowed and after they left, she got a report that the glowing spread to the other two pyramids so that all three were glowing.  [cut]  Have you heard any stories about this, LH?

I've a short and simple answer: nope. Checked the net in Dutch and can't even find any reports from people who went along. So I think Kiesha went her merry own way without any onlookers, and came up with the "piramis are glowing" story.

Quote
There is a devotee of LG who was at the Crystal Ceremony.  [cut] In the photo, the man in question is in the center top with the white tee shirt on.  Do you know anything about him?

Sorry, no, haven't found him anywhere yet. I looked at the employees and coaches and the like employed with Heart4Earth, but he's not there. I'll keep looking.

Quote
Also, Litsehimmel, do you know anything about LG's "wife Joyce" who she mentioned in her newsletter of December 2011?  http://lightworkers.org/wisdom/little-grandmother/147732/little-grandmothers-december-newsletter  Is this the same Joyce Brown mentioned in a prior post I had made from the IBBO school when they mentioned LG's "partner Joyce Brown".

Found her! Joyce de Bruin is mentioned as "Kiesha's partner" on the IBBO school's website, in a statement that says that the IBBO school "met with Kiesha Crowther and her partner Joyce de Bruin (bruin = Dutch for brown)" and that the two women had "offered to support the IBBO school". The school then goes on and refers to Kiesha's website http://www.littlegrandmother.net/ Still looking for more info, she is rather elusive.

And ... have you guys heard of Tuaca Kelly?

Quote
Dreaming of Wisdom: My Prophetic Life with Kiesha Crowther

http://dreamingofwisdom.com/  and  https://www.facebook.com/pages/Tuaca-Kelly/129346383479
Check out the photos on the site mentioned first.

LH

Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Autumn on April 16, 2013, 06:26:38 pm
Thanks, LH.

No, I had never heard of Tuaca Kelly, but it looks like she and LG have known each other for a long time since they buried a crystal in CA in 2010.  So strange that they would both do that and then leave the country!!  Tuaca said she was from San Francisco.

It looks like she is dabbles in ayahuasca also, since this was on her Facebook page:

Quote
Tuaca Kelly asked a question.
March 19
Beloved Village of Light, On touching the Vine of Souls.... ^i^

    +3

I've yet to personally experience Ayahuasca...I'd like to.

    +2

This does not feel as if it is something for me at this point in my life.

    +1

It didn't copy too well, but it was a questionnaire to assess her Facebook followers' interest in ayahuasca.

I also wanted to clarify my earlier opinion that you can't just go out and say "I am a Buddhist nun" without the training to back it up.  I don't really think there is a Buddhist police that arrests people who are saying they are a Buddhist nun when, in fact, they are not.  That being said, I think you can say you are anything you want and most people will believe you, no questions asked. 
Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Autumn on April 16, 2013, 06:57:55 pm
I have been reading more about Tuaca and I am so impressed!! *cough* *cough*

http://tuacakelly.weebly.com/alepha-temple.html

She is a minister in the Universal Life Church where you become a minister free of charge:

Quote
The Universal Life Church (ULC) is a religious organization that offers anyone semi-immediate ordination as a ULC minister free of charge. The organization states that anyone can become a minister without having to go through the pre-ordination process required by other religious faiths.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_Life_Church

Also, on her book sales for her book about KC, it says "*A substantial portion of the proceeds from this book go to a Netherlands-based non-profit."  Could that possibly be her own non-profit? 

Quote
Your donations are tax-deductible. AlephA Temple non-profit number: KvK: 54930421

Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Epiphany on April 16, 2013, 07:37:33 pm

Name
KIESHA CROWTHER LLC

 Type
Domestic Limited Liability Company

Filing Information

NMSCC  4415964

Status Exempt

Date of Incorporation Mar-09-2011

State of Incorporation NM

http://efile.prc.newmexico.gov/efile/corplookup/Details.aspx?Nmscc=4415964 (http://efile.prc.newmexico.gov/efile/corplookup/Details.aspx?Nmscc=4415964)




Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: MattOKC on April 16, 2013, 10:27:01 pm
I was quite interested in the .pdf of her response to this site. I have some thoughts.

I just want to say thank you for the smile on my face as I sip my coffee this morning.  I absolutely love all the analogies you have used. 

If anyone who comes here seeking info on Keisha's bona fides doesn't grasp the reality of her false claims after reading what you have written they should be ashamed.  I don't think it possible to come up with any more ways of saying she is a fake.

Yes, I agree.  It was hilarious.  I loved the Sarah Palin / Michele Bachmann analogy -- two pea's in a pod.

Not sure what .pdf you are referring to.  Was it in an earlier post?  (She has changed her story so much, she may not agree with that being her story -- now -- as if that would matter.)

It was something Epiphany posted in an earlier post: http://www.newagefraud.org/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2871.0;attach=705
Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Dindra on May 15, 2013, 06:28:05 pm
Dear NAFPS, I was wondering whether there is any 'real' evidence (like an official record) that allows me to show the true colors of this imposter.
Some dear Dutch friends of mine are about to throw a lot of money in that snake pit and I would like to prevent this. They became associated with her through Heart4Earth and New Health Academy, both parties that seem to be a little bit too much involved with new age and 'business'. New Health Academy even throws in an extra punch by listing a lot of people with fake doctorate titles and sketchy medical degrees of studies that are hardly scientific.

Unfortunately, I'm the close minded science guy in their eyes, so they don't take my word for granted. I found the links within this topic are already very much clarifying my case, but I guess it's little bit too much for them to digest since these are statements that are hard to track down to their original sources.
But hey, at least we know now why The Netherlands is glowing so brightly.
Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Autumn on May 15, 2013, 06:52:20 pm
Is the Netherlands glowing so brightly since LG found her "pot of gold at the end of the rainbow" or because she planted a crystal which was delivered by a Mayan *cough* which had been "activated"?   ;D ;D ;D

It is sad that your friends have fallen under her spell.  It is hard to save people from themselves when they are determined to do something.  Unless someone from her past, such as an ex-lover, mother, husband, disgruntled employee, etc. writes a "tell-all" book, there seems to be little hope of stopping people from throwing money at her.  Unless they have doubts about her themselves, they aren't going to take the time to read 81 pages on this forum.

That is really interesting what you said about the New Health Academy.  That alone should convince your friends.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Defend the Sacred on May 15, 2013, 09:24:20 pm
What do you mean by "real" evidence, Dindra? There are many statements from respected tribal people denouncing her and her claims. The Indigenous leaders and communities she tried to exploit have spoken out against her. There is zero evidence of any of the ridiculous, offensive claims she has made. Everyone who has looked into her claims and history (as opposed to "just listening to their heart") has concluded she has zero credibility.

Al summed it up well, here: Tribe of Many Colors or Tribe of Many Dollars?
By Dr. Al Carroll
http://www.newagefraud.org/smf/index.php?topic=2871.msg26887#msg26887

And in more detail, one of our members summarized and condensed over eighty pages of research down into two:
FAQ - Kiesha Crowther AKA Little Grandmother: http://www.newagefraud.org/smf/index.php?topic=3075.0
Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: BlackBear on July 02, 2013, 08:59:34 pm
Thank you, everyone, for this long, informative thread.

I am not on the inside, but I am close enough to know a fair amount of what is going on, and distant enough to be mostly out of harm's way.

Dindra - I am sorry for your friends who are taken by her and her story. Sometimes people insist on giving their power away, and other than inform them once, there is nothing else you can do. No fact will dissuade them until they start to see through her on their own.

BB
Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Epiphany on July 02, 2013, 09:14:00 pm
Thank you, everyone, for this long, informative thread.

I am not on the inside, but I am close enough to know a fair amount of what is going on, and distant enough to be mostly out of harm's way.

Dindra - I am sorry for your friends who are taken by her and her story. Sometimes people insist on giving their power away, and other than inform them once, there is nothing else you can do. No fact will dissuade them until they start to see through her on their own.

BB

I hope you will get yourself completely out of harm's way.

Also hope you will post on what you know.

Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: BlackBear on July 02, 2013, 10:00:58 pm
People have referred to Kiesha's handlers. She has never had handlers, she is not a programmed mind control slave. They have handlers. Her stories are her own, not the invention of her partner or her mother.

Kiesha does have some gifts and paranormal experiences. I am not sure what's left of them, as I believe they wane when abused for ego gratification.

Someone asked if she ditched her mortgage when she moved. The house was a rental, so there was no mortgage. She moved because of visa/immigration issues for her wife, Joyce.  She took her son with her, but left her daughter, which may or may not be related to custody issues.

Thanks for the welcome!
BB
Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Autumn on July 03, 2013, 04:51:27 pm
People have referred to Kiesha's handlers. She has never had handlers, she is not a programmed mind control slave. They have handlers. Her stories are her own, not the invention of her partner or her mother.

Kiesha does have some gifts and paranormal experiences. I am not sure what's left of them, as I believe they wane when abused for ego gratification.

Someone asked if she ditched her mortgage when she moved. The house was a rental, so there was no mortgage. She moved because of visa/immigration issues for her wife, Joyce.  She took her son with her, but left her daughter, which may or may not be related to custody issues.

Thanks for the welcome!
BB

Thanks for your input, BlackBear.  Although the comment was somewhat humorous, IMHO, I don't think the comment about her mortgage was actually meant to mean a "mortgage," but I think the intent was "Did she leave the country to escape something and leave some things undone?"  (It is possible to ditch paying rental payments when a lease is involved). 

I am the one who made the comment about her children.  How very odd to have custody issues about one child and not the other, so that question will just have to remain unanswered.
Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: BlackBear on July 08, 2013, 06:03:53 pm
Lol... re: mortgage
No, she wasn't running from anything when she left. The US won't honor their marriage, wife can't immigrate.

Re: leaving a child behind
I don't know if it's a custody compromise or a reflection of Mormon misogyny. Maybe it's something else.

BB
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Defend the Sacred on July 08, 2013, 07:39:54 pm
The US has started honoring same-sex marriages in immigration cases. The first two legal precedents were just set last week. It's based on the recent Supreme Court ruling that marriages made in one state have to be recognized on the Federal level.
Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Autumn on August 04, 2013, 01:37:15 pm
Oh great!  Betsey Lewis is back as LG's website designer (after writing a couple of books, apparently, which LG is referencing on her website).  http://littlegrandmother.nl/

Quote
I highly recommend these books by my web designer
Betsey Lewis now available on Amazon. Click here.

This is the comment on one of Betsey Lewis's books from LG.  http://www.betseylewis.com/Angels__Aliens__Prophecy.html

Quote
A thrilling read! A must read for anyone interested in the truth about what is going on our planet, our sacred places and
the knowledge of our ancient ancestors. A very well-researched piece of work!" - World-renowned spiritual teacher
Little Grandmother Kiesha Crowther
, author of Message for the Tribe of Many Colors
(Bolding Mine)

World-renowned!   ;D ;D ;D

I see Betsey is also still in the habit of reviewing her own books on Amazon!
Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Epiphany on August 06, 2013, 12:51:20 am
We should listen to Betsey cause she noted that both Lady Di and Kate wore polka dotted dresses after the births of their royal babies. Betsey is psychic like that.  ;) We need her to notice things like this.

http://www.betseylewis.com/Royal_Baby_Astrology.html (http://www.betseylewis.com/Royal_Baby_Astrology.html)

Quote
Although my prediction of the royal baby's name was wrong, I find it interesting that my new fictional book is titled, Alexander Phoenix and The Seven Sacred Virtues. He was named George Alexander Louis.

So she managed to make being wrong somehow being right, in order to sell books.

As for Kiesha, I wonder if she ever finds herself at a loss, if she ever runs out of stories momentarily to tell. Looking over this transcript of she and Betsey talking - Kiesha's b.s. is endless. Though it looks like it is all drawn from the usual new age well.

Quote
At age 30 unbeknown to me I received a phone call from a Native American elder saying that I was being watched since childhood and knew that I would take upon me the name of Little Grandmother.

Quote
They're just matter of fact that there are spirals in the sky. The energies are coming through. Large bolts of energy from the universe is being sent to our human planet to help us digest bits of energy to help us get ready for the big bolt of energy which is coming. And while this happens, the energy on the planet will be very high. They are sending help, we are getting help, energy is coming. As that energy rises, those with very low energy and I'm talking of those not just who are in limbo and not those of us who are already coming from a heart place and trying to live from the highest place but those who have low energy, who are doing things that go against human law, who go against the heart law. They will not be able to survive the energy that is coming and this is how the world will be cleansed.

Quote
Underneath the Sphinx is a great library and I know for a fact because there are pictures, there is real video, the government is extracting what is under the Sphinx right now. They are doing it under the cover of night but it is happening.

http://littlegrandmother.net/Radio_Transcript_0T78.html (http://littlegrandmother.net/Radio_Transcript_0T78.html)
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Defend the Sacred on August 06, 2013, 02:36:04 pm
Quote
As that energy rises, those with very low energy and I'm talking of those not just who are in limbo and not those of us who are already coming from a heart place and trying to live from the highest place but those who have low energy, who are doing things that go against human law, who go against the heart law. They will not be able to survive the energy that is coming and this is how the world will be cleansed.

http://littlegrandmother.net/Radio_Transcript_0T78.html (http://littlegrandmother.net/Radio_Transcript_0T78.html)

Bear in mind this "low energy" "low vibration" "dark energy" slur is how she's described her critics - most notably, NDNs. This sounds like she's praying for genocide.

Classic  cult tactics: demonize the critics, then scare followers with the idea of some kind of oncoming apocalypse, which they will only survive if they join the cult leader and stay in the fold.
Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Autumn on August 06, 2013, 04:00:43 pm
Piff, I have often wondered with Betsey and Kiesha, who is feeding information to who, since they seem to shadow each other in the bs they spout.

"Fictional" is the key word here:

Quote
Although my prediction of the royal baby's name was wrong, I find it interesting that my new fictional book is titled, Alexander Phoenix and The Seven Sacred Virtues. He was named George Alexander Louis.

Yes, we need Betsey to tell us things.   :-\ :-\

I also noticed that currently Betsey has DragonflyDimensionsPublishing.com as her website designer.  Previously to this, LG had Dragonfly Dimensions listed as her website designer (which previous to that, and currently, said Betsey Lewis website designer), but I guess Betsey never left LG after all, since Dragonfly Dimensions Publishing is set up as a publisher of Betsey's books. 

I must admit I sort of get a kick out of listening to the absurd things LG comes up with.  She had talked about the people with the "dark energies" and that those people (me apparently) would not survive the new energies coming to our planet, but she is the one who was in intensive care at the end of 2012 (at least, according to her)!

I also heard her say once in an interview that she had been thinking about it and she had decided that the strange noises that had been reported around the planet were not coming from inside the earth as she had previously thought, but these noises were as a result of the huge bursts of energy that were being directed at our planet.  She apparently does not know much about how far sound can travel!

No, you are right, Piff, she never "finds herself at a loss" and people just keep paying her to come up with her drivel, which is truly sad.   :'( :'( :'(


Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Shasta RB on August 17, 2013, 03:37:11 pm
I would like to share this article on New Age frauds in regards to the hoax of the 2012 prophecy. It includes Keisha Crowther in it.

This is a lengthy article if you have time to read.

http://prophecyfail2012.blogspot.com/
Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Lodro on October 04, 2013, 06:19:09 pm
Meanwhile, Little Grandmother has surfaced in a big way in The Netherlands. Very much in love with Joyce, it seems, and traveling all over Europe to conduct ceremonies with crystals....She now lives in Maastricht. She's into healing Alzheimer's disease now, hoping to share her "breakthrew" with the world.
Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: milehighsalute on November 06, 2013, 10:25:55 pm
http://goldenageofgaia.com/2011/01/little-grandmother-faces-stiff-challenge/ OMG......lol this is a few yrs old but check out the article and the comments hahahahha
Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Autumn on November 07, 2013, 01:41:46 am
http://goldenageofgaia.com/2011/01/little-grandmother-faces-stiff-challenge/ OMG......lol this is a few yrs old but check out the article and the comments hahahahha

That is pretty funny and he just doesn't seem to get it (IMHO).  But then he is a "Starseed," so I guess they see things differently from mere mortals.

Quote
Steve is apparently from Arcturus and has lived on Earth just a few lifetimes: to serve as a priest in Atlantis, to serve as a soldier, to formulate mathematical principles, to found a religious order, and to help with the development of printing. This lifetime he works as a writer serving Archangel Michael and the Divine Mother.

http://goldenageofgaia.com/about/

And he is still an apologist for LG.  Here is a comment from February 2013:

Quote
Little Grandmother has moved to the Netherlands and is offering her first event of the year in Utrecht. Yes, I’m very much aware of the resistance she evoked perhaps two years ago. I don’t agree with it.

I also feel that she has listened to her critics and considerately adjusted her way of working to see to their sensitivities. I hope she’s now allowed to get on with her mission without further controversy.
(bolding mine)

http://goldenageofgaia.com/2013/02/little-grandmother-settles-in-the-netherlands/

I wonder what "mission" that would be?  I suspect it has something to do with $$$$
Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: milehighsalute on November 07, 2013, 10:00:35 pm
http://www.godlikeproductions.com/forum1/message1302242/pg1 4 pages on her.....nothing we hadnt heard before...especially last 2 pages....a buncha apologists pretty much insinuating we have no business telling her what to do, and that little grandmother is actually doing us a favor........they never see do they?
Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: tsalagi43 on November 24, 2013, 09:03:14 am
No, they always feel justified in their theft, not realizing they are perpetuating the theft that has been taking place against us since 1492.
I wrote to the people in Phoenix who were holding her last hoopla there, and I got no fewer than FOUR e-mails chastising me, and telling me that Russell Means supported her and what she is doing!  This is AFTER Russell had passed away!  I tried to contact Pearl Means, to no avail, to let her know these charlatans were using her late husband as a means to advocate for a fraud!
Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Autumn on December 08, 2013, 10:24:31 pm
LG recently met with Don Alejandro, but he appears to have gotten a lot younger (wonder why he would have been in Holland?):  https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.1492324284325557.1073741838.1483412025216783&type=1

Also, she helped prepare cold sandwiches in honor of Thanksgiving to deliver to the homeless, but she refers to the sandwiches as "hot food":

https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.1488903148001004.1073741836.1483412025216783&type=1
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=1488903694667616&set=a.1488903148001004.1073741836.1483412025216783&type=3&theater
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Defend the Sacred on December 09, 2013, 12:04:25 am
LG recently met with Don Alejandro, but he appears to have gotten a lot younger (wonder why he would have been in Holland?):  https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.1492324284325557.1073741838.1483412025216783&type=1

There are multiple people using the name Don Alejandro, or something very similar to it, all saying/selling similar things. I think it's made it easier for the scammers to confuse people. With some of them, it may just be a common name. But with others it does seem like a kind of scammy identity-theft.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Autumn on December 09, 2013, 09:32:55 pm
There are multiple people using the name Don Alejandro, or something very similar to it, all saying/selling similar things. I think it's made it easier for the scammers to confuse people. With some of them, it may just be a common name. But with others it does seem like a kind of scammy identity-theft.

Thanks, Kathryn.  When I Googled the name Don Alejandro, I couldn't find anything about this particular Don Alejandro.  I have to give LG credit on this one, a woman on her Facebook page referred to him as a "Maya elder" and LG corrected her:

Quote
no, this is Don Alejandro of the Incan, the people of quechua, He comes from the oldest pure blood line of the Inca people.

I just can't believe that LG would associate with someone participating in a "scammy identity-theft", can you?  :-[ :-[ :-[
Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Epiphany on December 10, 2013, 01:34:35 am
I think this Don Alejandro is the same man in this video, name given as Alejandro Apaza M.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T5JDivQ1o1A (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T5JDivQ1o1A)

Google translation:

Don Alejandro is a medicine man and spiritual wisdom comes from the community of Keros - Cuzco (Peru), teaches us what is the essence of man versus nature. He points out that many natural disasters around the world as well as the practical solution to modify the changes that have been altered man occur also shows us his view on the phenomenon 2012, man of wisdom at the service of others.
Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Autumn on December 10, 2013, 03:03:56 am
I think this Don Alejandro is the same man in this video, name given as Alejandro Apaza M.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T5JDivQ1o1A (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T5JDivQ1o1A)

Google translation:

Don Alejandro is a medicine man and spiritual wisdom comes from the community of Keros - Cuzco (Peru), teaches us what is the essence of man versus nature. He points out that many natural disasters around the world as well as the practical solution to modify the changes that have been altered man occur also shows us his view on the phenomenon 2012, man of wisdom at the service of others.

Thanks, Piff.  His full name is Don Alejandro Apaza Machacca and he is with this group:

http://www.incashamanism.com/donalejandroapazamachacca.html
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Serena-Anchanchu-Centre-for-Incashamanism/336494066379283

They travel a lot in Europe for trainings:

http://www.monikabloomberg.com/inka_eng.html

Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: educatedindian on December 10, 2013, 02:11:37 pm
The second Alejandro is part of a group selling spiritual tourism trips. For the right price they'll also give you a certificate saying you've started "on the right path."

Crowther is due to speak at a Nuage fair in March. The author of an article for a Nuage magazine and a PhD candidate, Alexandra Nagel, contacted me. She sent me her article in advance. She's not sure if it will get published as "too negative" but she also sent it to the organizers of the fair. Here it is with a bad google translation.

----------
Is it right to bring or should we rest ? Past Kiesha Crowther ~ Little Grandmother in pictures
Alexandra Nagel
concept , December 9, 2013

... and so it happened that writing about Kiesha Crowther . article I promised I knew nothing of the Little Grandmother , her name as " insider " , except that she had written a book and many movies of her you- tube stand . The encounter that followed brought me in two minds . I do well to pick ? Criticism several years ago to address the Little Grandmother is directed forward Or is it better to be right not to pay attention ? To For both positions are to perform . Arguments to justify to What choice is wise and / or lead to more light ? I wik and weigh ...

After it was decided that I would write about Kiesha Crowther ( b. 1978), a piece I looked directly at one of its films that is on the Internet . The first impression : Little Grandmother is strongly committed to Mother Earth . On those recordings she told inter alia, that the consequences of the accident at the Fukushima nuclear reactor in Japan on March 11, 2011 are worse than what we are seeing in the news . Every day, thousands of gallons of leaking radioactive contaminated water to the ocean . An ecological disaster . But, also came forward , if there is enough crystals are placed around the reactor can be reduced . Destructive effects of the radioactive waste Crystals can not actually " charged " with love energy . Such power transfer energy than on the water , because everything carries a crystal in it , even water .

The key Crowther is love , so I concluded. The love for Mother Earth , nature , each other . It translates to heart : let yourself be guided by your heart , not your ego . When we go live from love , we go to feel the connection with Mother Earth and we will ensure that pollution is cleaned up we have saddled with Mother Earth .
Crowther message I found as staggering as simple. If the small , wise grandmother really knows , and from there I went , she was deeply concerned about Mother Earth . Little Grandmother appoints the ecological disasters and exactly which images onthutsten me . Have we really been exploited much are all Mother Earth ? The simple is the remedy that she offers to turn the tide : love and crystals . Jet crystals in love , work ( live) from the heart and is conscious. Is all there is to do more, you do not have to.

fuss
In further preparation for the interview I had planned , with the young American woman I googled extended a few weeks later . The search term " Kiesha Crowther " returned hundred thousand hits. A global survey snapped this number in the Little Grandmother website , various discussion forums and dozens of video recordings made in Europe ( Germany , Belgium , England , Sweden , Switzerland , Spain , Netherlands , Denmark) and the USA ( New Mexico ) . Everything was quite recent : from 2010 to the present.

The inventory came at the same time a strong criticism upwards . There appears to exist a fuss about the little blonde advocate of Mother Earth . In the past, Kiesha Crowther made ??statements in which they claimed to be an authentic Indian tradition. Inaugurated This is challenged. At various discussion pages also explains that Crowther has changed . During the time her story about the initiation ( s ) In addition to referring to Falling Feathers of the Flathead Tribe , there are references to the Sioux Tribe and the Cherokee . However , none of the persons mouthpiece for the Indians know Little Grandmother . In other words, Kiesha Crowther , spokeswoman for themselves the " Tribe of Many Colors " is not recognized , let alone recognized as an initiate in an original Indian tradition. Hot topic in the criticism is that Crowther and her former partner could live with what they brought in as Little Grandmother well. The spiritual lectures and activities (rituals ) were visited by many people , but as far as known nothing of revenues flowed back towards the peoples whose Crowther alleged links between them have . In this way fraudulently claimed ancient knowledge and operated .

Kiesha Rae Kreps
The most important , frequently copied text Kiesha Crowther attack comes from Dr. Alton C. Carroll ( b. 1965) , a historian specializing in American History and author of Medicine Bags and Dog Tags ( 2008) . According to Carroll Kiesha Crowther was born Kiesha Rae Kreps in Sanford , Colorado , and her parents were white, with no trace of original Indian blood in their genes. Kreps father , a truck driver , and mother Kreps - Rodda , owner of several small businesses , were Mormons . Kiesha Crowther / Kreps grew up in the Mormon faith , also married in that church and became a mother of two . As a result of her " vocation " she was separated from her husband and his estranged from her. Family

Dr. Carroll's letter is dated January 11, 2011 , three years ago now . In the meantime, Keisha Crowther left her second partner , Jennifer Ferraro , and moved to the Netherlands where she now lives with her ??new love Joyce Brown . In 2012 there were include trips to Jerusalem and Beijing and kwakkelde with her health. The biographical facts were to make after some puzzling with the information on various websites . Meanwhile Crowther spiritual message was essentially unchanged .

Negative or positive
Frankly overtook critique Crowther / Kreps me . What was where ? What was not true ? Everything was just what else was there ? Naturally, I went looking for a message , or more , in which Kiesha Crowther her side explained the criticism . However, the Little Grandmother site is not " Reply to my critics " in which it indicates that the statement of Dr. Carroll and others rightly or not, that she is sorry about the way her words a life of their own cause , or something this atmosphere . But nowhere on the internet is such a kind of reply formulated . What would be able to sit behind? Than I wondered . What puts the real story together ? What does that fuss for Little Grandmother ? What does it do her ?

Toelevend to meeting with Kiesha Crowther put doubt greatly the head. I would call off the lot ? Saying that I retired and no product wanted to write more? I did not need my hands to burn a hornet's nest . I did not write a positive story about someone whose rumors that she concocted claims has brought the world. Perhaps she had good reason to remain silent. I 'm not a crime reporter Peter R. à la de Vries and John van den Heuvel - why would I want to put her under fire ? What was wise to do ? The person with whom I had discussions advised me to do to continue the conversation. I would at least have the opportunity to get a direct, personal impression , and this can rebel against the collected Internet information .

The meeting which followed shortly afterwards with Kiesha Crowther and Joyce Brown , began smoothly. It was the result of my skepticism , the urge from journalistic curiosity " truth" on the table to get . At the time I picked up a strong sense of reluctance on the side of Little Grandmother . It soon became clear that she wants to rest the past. She wants . It's all about the spiritual message ? Why continue to pay for something that played two or three years ago and was negative attention? Is thus not maintained something negative ? That does not fit right in Mirror ? There the world is no better or more beautiful ?

Since I internal assessment of the conversation in a nasty , tough yes-no word struggle was bleeding and it sounded sterile, I left my questions regarding Kiesha Crowther ( alleged) connections with Indian modes separately . In addition, I wish her ??to rest the past wanted to respect . The interview focused more on the near future. Little Grandmother told about the trips that are on the program . It is so full that there is no time to work and rest . On a new book The power of positive thoughts was discussed . Kiesha Crowther and Joyce Brown told about an experiment they had done with rice and plain water once. Three identical jars they had filled with water and a handful of rice . At first they had a sticker which they had written , "love" on the second was "hate , anger ," and the third nothing . The next day they had every day loving thoughts sent to the first pot with rice and water , from the second they were evil , dark intentions expressed and the third glass they had ignored . After some time the rice in the third glass began to be dark and rotting . That happened with the rice in the second glass , but the process was slower there . In contrast, the rice in the first pot was long beautiful white . "Everyone can do at home such experiment and discover which way the power of mind is , " says Kiesha Crowther , citing the experiments and photos of Masaru Emoto .

Follow your heart
With mixed feelings , I traveled a half hour later, back home . I had not been given the impression that the Little Grandmother knowingly things for the garden wants to lead . I previously had the idea that their intentions are well meaning and , surprisingly , she suffers. Somehow I had to do with her. It was a sad , painful look in her eyes , something I had noticed before. Various photos and videos Probably this impression had contributed to the fact that I had not put Crowther to the top of the body to questions concerning the critical article by Al Carroll .
Once home I left the meeting to settle. Then thoughts turned again and I was back to square one. As a result of my not ask , and the closeness of Little Grandmother about her past, I still did not know what the criticism of her claims on her Indian initiation really had done to her. Had done her grief ? Was the criticism is unwarranted ? Had played a role in the break with Jennifer Ferraro and coming to the Netherlands ? Whether the criticism was justified and she had learned from it ? Had she been naïve to see the sensitivity lies about spiritual owned by native North American Indians?

Again I doubted but this time from a different position . " Follow your heart " is the motto of Little Grandmother . If I follow my heart with my eyes fixed on Kiesha Crowther , then I give her rest , and I do "the truth " do not know . But when I follow my heart a bigger picture in mind , namely with Mirror readers and people who have been hurt by certain claims of Kiesha Crowther , then I believe that they are entitled to the whole story . That whole story is not there. Now Who on the Internet looking for information about Kiesha Crowther find exactly what I found : accusations of fraudulent claims and filmjes on you- tube that criticism more or less bars . As long Kiesha Crowther gives no text or explanation concerning the uproar surrounding her person that piece of her past is not passé . Rather, it will continue to haunt her as "negative" energy . From what look I should follow my heart ? By what story I finally bring " positive" or "healing " energy out? I do not know. The perspective I have therefore chosen is that of the dilemma .
Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Autumn on December 10, 2013, 06:06:42 pm
Thanks for the article, Al.  With the bad Google translation, it is hard to make out what she is really saying, but I think she is saying she has mixed feelings about LG and that LG's intentions are good and she is pretty harmless, but I could be wrong.

Alexandra has written quite a few articles in the esoteric field and has gotten some flack about her views on Sathya Sai Baba.

http://leidenuniv.academia.edu/AlexandraNagel
http://www.saisathyasai.com/baba/Ex-Baba.com/Nagel/

This is really sad.   :( :(   LG apparently thinks China and Japan are the same country, since she confuses them in this Facebook post:

Quote
Ceremony in China -- this was really something! being on the anceint lake in japan praying for the healing and cleansing of mother earth in that area.. the water was so paluted! we prayed for mother to heal herself.. many people heard voices, our hair stood up on end..at one point the energy was so strong i passed out.. two days later the entire mountain came down and covered the lake, the water flooded into the city.. Mother Was indeed cleansing herself! The elders of Japan announced that the green dragon had returned, an ancient prophesy in China. What a day!!
(bolding mine)
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=1484405995117386&set=a.1484405955117390.1073741831.1483412025216783&type=1&theater

And the man I had wondered about previously in this thread, who helped her carry the heavy crystal during the Holland crystal ceremony and was with her during her Egypt trip, is named Jens Glende.

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=1484406941783958&set=a.1484405955117390.1073741831.1483412025216783&type=1&theater

He is from Germany and is also a devotee of Drunvalo Melchizedek, who LG refers to a lot:
http://drunvalo.net/teachers/teachers_display.php?teacher_id=3043
Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Ingeborg on December 11, 2013, 12:24:20 am

Nagel is a Nuager. Her profile at LinkedIn says:

http://leidenuniv.academia.edu/AlexandraNagel

Quote
PhD student ('buitenpromovendus')
Leiden University
Educational Institution; 1001-5000 employees; Hochschulwesen industry
– (1 year 7 months) Graduate School of Humanities
The Palmist Julius Spier. From Chiromancy to Psychochirology: Exploring a Hiatus in the History of Ideas

PR- and final review for magazine Spiegelbeeld [mirror image]
Tijdschrift Spiegelbeeld
– (2 years 4 months) Eindhoven
freelance teacher
Hogeschool voor Geesteswetenschappen
[Academy of Humanities]
– (3 years) De Uithof, Utrecht
In 2011 en 2012 verzorgde ik de module
- Inleiding natuur- en milieufilosofie
In 2010 de modules
- De geschiedenis van energetische geneeswijzen
- Inleiding westerse esoterie.
[In 2011 and 2012, I did the modules „Introduction into philosophy of nature and environment
In 2010, the modules „History of energetic healing methods“ and „Introduction into Western Esoterics“]
bookkeeper
De Heremiet
– (2 years 1 month)
The shop where I've worked for over 10 years was taken over by a new owner. For two years I continued to help out with the financial administration.
manager
De Heremiet
– (11 years 7 months)
To know most ins & outs, and to do the things to run a bookshop specialised in the esoteric (new age and old age) field.
saleswoman
La Colombe
(5 years 11 months)

Nagel has participated in Nuage congresses:

http://www.ehoc.ugent.be/node/213

Quote
Alexandra Nagel is enrolled as a PhD candidate at the faculty of Humanities, Leiden University.
Her dissertation will focus on the psychochirologist Julius Spier.
The background to this research is an MA in the history of western esotericism, which she finished in 2007 at the University of Amsterdam

We all know that Etty Hillesum was a student of Julius Spier. We also know that Spier had other students, and that a few devoted ones had formed a group around him – the “Spier Club” – of which Etty became an active participant. Spier was a hand-reader, or, as he called his profession, a "psycho-chirologist", who taught his students to read hands in accordance with the method he had developed. In other words, as a student of Spier’s, and by being Spier's secretary, Etty was on her way of becoming a psycho-chirologist herself. Despite the fact that we all know this, researchers so far have ignored this subject. By doing so, we have missed out on an intriguing aspect of Etty Hillesum’s life.  


http://www.ehoc.ugent.be/node/139

Quote
The aim of the Etty Hillesum Congress 2014 is to invite Hillesum scholars from all over the world to exchange valuable insights and to discuss problems that arise when studying Etty Hillesum's legacy. It is a unique and privileged opportunity to meet other colleagues in the field and to learn from their work, as well as to make use of the facilities of the Etty Hillesum Research Centre at Ghent University. It is an ideal moment to give Etty Hillesum, her Diaries and Letters, her vision and life, a wider publicity and media coverage.

Listed as a member of staff here:

http://www.parapsy.nl/

The Dutch title says: „The portal for scientific parapsychology in the Netherlands“.
Emphasis mine
They offer these courses:

http://www.parapsy.nl/

Quote
Cursusnaam
Cursuscode
(start)datum
Kosten
Dood en sterven, de sjamanistische visie
SJPP 1401
2014-01-11
€ 100
De sjamaan in jou
SJ 1401
2014-01-25
€ 100
Sjamanistische extractie
SJEX 1401
2014-02-08
€ 100
Omgaan met energieën - loslaten, centeren en aarden
EN 1401
2014-02-16
€ 175
Dood en sterven, de sjamanistische visie
SJPP 1402
2014-02-22
€ 100
Sjamanisme: Soul Retrieval
SJSR 1401
2014-03-08
€ 150
Sjamanisme terugkomdag (voor oud-sjamanismecursisten)
SJT 1401
2014-03-16
€ 75

Titles in English:
Death and dying, the shamanic vision – The shaman in you – Shamanistic extraction – Dealing with energies, letting go, centering, and grounding – Death and dying, the shamanic vision – Shamanism: Soul Retrieval.

Intro for Death & Dying:
Quote
Participants will be introduced to the phenomenon death and dying from a shamanic point of view. For all persons who want to get a better understanding of the incidents around dying and death and perhaps be able to help themselves and other persons. We learn how we can prepare ourselves or another person for death.
The second aspect is the classic psychopompous work, accompanying a person who passed away and need to be taken to a better place. This workshop will also place the emphasis on your own experience.
Prerequisite for participation in this course is having participated in the workshop „The shaman in you“ (with Joke van Koningshoven of Foundation for Shamanic Studies).

Please wear comfortable, loose fitting clothes
Please bring along:
Towel or bath sheet – drum or rattle – a bandana or a shawl - […] - drawing paper – pen and paper to take notes

Lecturer: Joke van Koningshoven

Date: Feb 22-23, 2014, 10 am – 4 pm
Fee: € 100

Nagel also works for magazine „Spiegelbeeld“, a Nuage magazine:

http://www.spiegelbeeld.nl/

Quote
Spiegelbeeld is an independent and impartial monthly magazine offering varying articles and categories on issues like humans & society, health, spirituality, religion, nature and environment. The articles may have a supporting effect in the process of personal growth and consciousness. The articles can further contribute to a clearer insight into personal thinking, feeling, and behaviour.


http://www.spiegelbeeld.nl/

Quote
Uitgevers
Joke & Albert de Louw
Hoofdredactie
Albert de Louw

?Eindredactie
Alexandra nagel
xnagel@yahoo.com

Uitgevers = publishers
Hoofdredactie = chief editor
Eindredactie = final review


So what we see in the article written by Nagel is a Nuager badly trying to keep sitting on the fence instead of speaking clear words. She keeps on ranting on how Crowther does not want to talk about the past, and goes pretty much out of her way not to come to the conclusion that this may be seen as an indication that Crowther indeed cannot defend her lies and exploitation. Another hint that Nagel's criticism of Crowther is just superficial is her making use of the fake title Crowther bestowed upon herself, „Little Grandmother“. Nagel also does not question the legitimacy of Crowther's fake Tribe of Many Dollars – errm, sorry: Colours.

However, Nagel not only avoids an explicit evaluation. Not coming to the obvious result in her article, Nagel needs to debase the statements ndn persons have given on Crowther and her claims – which she does not hesitate to do. As she thinks the arrows are flying, Nagel rushes to join the crew within the circle of waggons and sides with her white fellows singing „If you're white, you're right“.

No, Mevrouw Nagel: Crowther does not merit any benefit of doubt. Her claims of initiation, of belonging to ndn nations are childish fantasies, used as a sales pitch for a white audience eager to believe her. Your badmouthing of ndn persons who pointed out that Crowther misrepresents herself is a nice piece of White Supremacy.

Besides, it does not matter whether or not Crowther stopped exploiting North American ndn spirituality, since she is now also exploiting Meso and South American nations. So she is still making a profit of ndn spirituality, and she is still busy creating her own cult. Plus that she has taken up a few more Nuage ideas like e.g. Masaru Emoto and his fantasies about water having a memory. Crowther may or may not believe it has, she is using bits and pieces of Nuage resp pseudo-scientific bunk as a sales pitch to lure in more Nuagers. The Nuage scene in the Netherlands of course will be way smaller than that in the States.

Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: educatedindian on December 12, 2013, 03:23:54 pm
Nagel contacted me through my publisher, so I knew this was different than some angry Nuager who used the contact form for the forum. I knew she was a Nuager, one about to enter academia.

She tells me the magazine decided against publishing the article. They had not heard the criticism of Crowther before and decided to stay out of it. Nagel told me she may try to publish it elsewhere.

The festival organizers also hadn't heard criticism of Crowther before and are considering whether or not to include her. Nagel tells me she believes Crowther is not nearly as successful or making as much money as before in the US.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Defend the Sacred on December 14, 2013, 09:43:05 pm
Another red flag with Nagel, and those who speak the way she does, is the idea that "a valid initiation" can make it OK for non-Natives to exploit and sell Native traditions.

Whether from Wicca or Crowley or the Nuage that's been influenced by them, many exploiters and people who support them believe that one, mind-blowing spiritual experience can now make someone an expert and a teacher. You see this with people buying Reiki "empowerments," for instance. But even the British Traditional (BritTrad) Wiccans and Golden Dawn people demand (or used to demand) that people go through training and mentorship before leading their own groups. The nuage commodity version of all of the above has created a massive number of pay to pray types who believe a weekend workshop is all they need. A slight variation is the appropriators who denigrate the weekend workshop crowd but think that traditions can be mastered in only a few years and totally removed from cultural context. Or, they think dressing up and buying some bling equals a culture. After hearing the way she speaks, I'm not surprised to find Nagel is deeply involved in this exploitation.

And for those who are coming from a secular background, or who were raised by a religion they felt no connection to, the slightest bit of contact with the sacred, or even something that stimulates the imagination to the extent that they only think they've found something sacred, can seem mind-blowing. But as they are still operating from the mainstream mindset that commodifies everything, combined with white privilege and the adolescent rebellion many are stuck within, and they can easily convince themselves they have a sacred duty to sell any fragments they can steal, and that they owe no respect to the people they've stolen from.
Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: educatedindian on March 11, 2014, 03:27:52 pm
Received this email from the One Heart Institute. They disavow any connection to Crowther.

-----
As far as  Keisha Crowther, Who is she? We have no connection or affiliation with this individual. Please remove all information and connection to her. We do not want to be associated with her.

Kind Regrads,
Mark Kochkodan
Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Autumn on March 11, 2014, 04:41:28 pm
Received this email from the One Heart Institute. They disavow any connection to Crowther.

-----
As far as  Keisha Crowther, Who is she? We have no connection or affiliation with this individual. Please remove all information and connection to her. We do not want to be associated with her.

Kind Regrads,
Mark Kochkodan

Under the name One World Heart Institute, they were mentioned tangentially on this thread as supporters of Lady Rowena.

Current information - now known as One World Heart-Earth:

http://www.linkedin.com/pub/mark-kochkodan/15/573/292
http://www.onhi.org/
Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Autumn on March 20, 2014, 05:32:41 pm
LG has turned on another supporter (must not be getting any proceeds from her book sales!).

Quote
Little Grandmother Kiesha
February 24
Important!

Many of you have received an email from a Tuaca Kelly who is now trying to promote her book ("my prophetic life with Kiesha Crowther") I have no association with this book nor have I ever had a prophetic life with Tuaca Kelly.

Little Grandmother

https://www.facebook.com/littlegrandmother.kiesha

You can see a photo earlier in this thread of the two of them together as they planted a crystal in California in 2010.

http://www.newagefraud.org/smf/index.php?topic=2871.msg34160#msg34160

This photo is currently on LG's website and it looks like it was taken at the same time as the photo taken with Tuaca Kelly:

http://littlegrandmother.net/events-calender/

The two photos definitely were taken at the same time.  The two photos, plus many others I have seen on LG promotions, are on Tuaca's website promoting the book:  http://dreamingofwisdom.com/

(Someone on Facebook mentioned to LG that there was a photo of the two of them together on Tuaca's website and LG said "yes i have seen them, im doing a ceremony in the red woods" (according to Tuaca and to the photos, just the two of them were doing the ceremony).
Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Superdog on March 22, 2014, 07:45:31 pm
You'll also see one of the photos from Tuaca Kelly's site here:  http://littlegrandmother.net/portfolio/photographs-little-grandmother/#lightbox/62/

Captioned:  "Crystal Ceremony at the Redwoods in Northern California"

And another one captioned:  "Little Grandmother in Northern California enjoying the Pacific Ocean"

I'm not sure how much control over her own website Kiesha has...one page lists her as living in Santa Fe...another page says Maastricht....

I find it a hilariously ironic that she's trying to keep someone from making money off her name....   ;D
The pictures bust her completely though....and apparently she's either unwilling or unable to take them down. 

Superdog
Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Superdog on March 22, 2014, 08:09:14 pm
Looks like currently her workshops involve a partnership with a guy named Michael Telapary, a flute player.  At least, Michael doesn't claim Native ancestry, however he does claim to be gifted a flute by an Apache medicine man as part of his bio.

Lotta stuff on his page about Chakra healing, etc.  Lives in the Netherlands...from his pics he even took a run at Holland's Got Talent.  Interesting character.....there's even a pic of Kiesha giving him a kiss on the cheek.  Dyed black hair in some pics....salt and pepper in the others.

http://www.tewanka.com

Superdog
Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Autumn on April 16, 2014, 12:05:03 am
http://www.newagefraud.org/smf/index.php?topic=3790.msg31746#msg31746

Quote
Little Grandmother recently posted something on her Facebook page regarding the Fukushima Nuclear Crisis that was signed by Chief Arvol Looking Horse and the statement is on the below-listed site which appears to be a blog for Chief Arvol Looking Horse.  However, I cannot find it on the site listed above (http://wolakota.org)/index.html

http://www.manataka.org/page108.html#October_31,_2013

The statement first appeared on the internet about five and a half months ago and was re-posted over several blog sites.  Since LG is heading to Japan right now to plant several crystals which she has assured everyone will clear up the nuclear pollution in that country, that is the reason she is posting the statement now.  It appears to give her "street cred".

Since Chief Arvol Looking Horse does not blog, has this changed? 
Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Diana on April 16, 2014, 07:03:30 am
Don't we have a thread on that dubious group Manataka?  >:(
Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: kitten42 on April 16, 2014, 11:43:08 am
Not that I could find using the search function, the only thread that came up was this one. If I have time today I might rectify that.
Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Ingeborg on April 16, 2014, 01:18:24 pm

The search function produces 61 threads altogether for Manataka - e.g.:

http://www.newagefraud.org/smf/index.php?topic=324.0

http://www.newagefraud.org/smf/index.php?topic=439.0

http://www.newagefraud.org/smf/index.php?topic=1021.0

(The search function at the top right of the page is a waste of time mostly, but there is a better one on the top left - between 'help' and 'profile'.)
Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: kitten42 on April 16, 2014, 02:03:43 pm
Thank you, greatly appreciated! I live in that area of the country, this is plumb embarrassing.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Defend the Sacred on April 16, 2014, 04:38:57 pm
That looks to be one of the statements from Arvol that Paula sent out to a huge mailing list, and that was shared all over Facebook. However, I have not gone over it word by word in comparison to the original to see if they altered the text in any way. Manataka and other frauds have always tried to make themselves look more legitimate, and imply a connection with people they don't know, by reposting those kinds of public writings. They've even posted protection of ceremonies statements on one page, while violating the standards on another. We've tried, but there's not a lot we can do to keep skeevy people from sharing public posts, especially once anyone with a huge friends list posts it to Facebook and people start hitting "share."

When I posted that Arvol and Paula would be putting future statements on their own website, that was indeed the plan. But Paula has been more inclined to continue using email and Facebook.

And if it is not clear: Arvol still does not blog. He has no connection to the Manataka site. Manataka steals from everyone.


ETA: I've posted the original here: http://www.newagefraud.org/smf/index.php?topic=3790.msg37116#msg37116

At the very least, the frauds at Manataka only posted excerpts from it and they changed the title. If someone could go over both texts and see if they altered anything else, I'd appreciate it.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Defend the Sacred on April 16, 2014, 05:42:08 pm
Tech note: For the search function to work properly, you have to be on the main page of the forum. Otherwise it will only search the thread you are currently in.
Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: kitten42 on April 17, 2014, 02:10:43 pm
All of that good to know, thank you. When I read the blog version, it was oddly written in many places.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Defend the Sacred on April 17, 2014, 04:09:45 pm
All of that good to know, thank you. When I read the blog version, it was oddly written in many places.


Well, it's not a blog. It's a bunch of frauds on a fraud website reposting other people's work without permission. And they misrepresented an excerpt of a council statement as having coming solely from Chief Looking Horse when in reality it was co-written. This kind of stuff is annoying, but so many people do it to Chief Looking Horse that he and his team simply don't have the time or energy to take on every person who does this.

He only bothered to say something about Kiesha when he did because Kiesha was getting a rather unprecedented amount of exposure, resulting in an overwhelming amount of inquiries. All the tribes and individuals Kiesha falsely claimed association with were contacted by dozens or, in some cases, hundreds of people, all wanting to talk about this weird young white woman none of them knew. I am still baffled that Kiesha has been so popular, that she fooled so many people. Kiesha really thought no one would ask, but she wound up being the person most heavily-investigated due to the outrageous, false claims she made about real, living people and real, living cultures. Well, in addition to the "elders, teachers and shamans" she just made up to pad her  resume of lies.
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Autumn on April 18, 2014, 01:35:47 am
Quote
All of that good to know, thank you. When I read the blog version, it was oddly written in many places.


Well, it's not a blog. It's a bunch of frauds on a fraud website reposting other people's work without permission. And they misrepresented an excerpt of a council statement as having coming solely from Chief Looking Horse when in reality it was co-written. This kind of stuff is annoying, but so many people do it to Chief Looking Horse that he and his team simply don't have the time or energy to take on every person who does this.

He only bothered to say something about Kiesha when he did because Kiesha was getting a rather unprecedented amount of exposure, resulting in an overwhelming amount of inquiries. All the tribes and individuals Kiesha falsely claimed association with were contacted by dozens or, in some cases, hundreds of people, all wanting to talk about this weird young white woman none of them knew. I am still baffled that Kiesha has been so popular, that she fooled so many people. Kiesha really thought no one would ask, but she wound up being the person most heavily-investigated due to the outrageous, false claims she made about real, living people and real, living cultures. Well, in addition to the "elders, teachers and shamans" she just made up to pad her  resume of lies.

Thanks.  I was not aware of what Manataka was doing.  They make it look like an official blog by posting so many photos and some of his statements.  They only quoted about half of the statement from Chief Arvol Looking Horse, but they did list the names of the three signers at the end of the quote. 

LG, on the other hand, has posted the entire statement word for word.  IMHO, she is attempting to give herself credibility by posting it at this exact moment since she is heading to Japan in a few days to save the world from the radiation contamination of the Fukushima nuclear disaster.  However, the statement from the "Council" stresses action, truthfulness, and working together over "infusing crystals with love and planting them so that they radiate out" so I really think she misses the boat here.

By the way, this is another of those ancient crystals like the one she was presented by the "Mayan Buddhist Nun" at the ceremony in Holland about a year ago.  This is from her Facebook page:

Quote
Why is this crystal so important?

It has been passed down through 78 generations of Shamanic Wisdom Keepers, who cared for and protected it their whole lives. A sacred duty that was only completed by passing it down to the next generation - that is 100's and 100's of years! They did this because it was prophesised that at the time of the Earth's great shift, this crystal would need to be placed back in its sacred position.

Known as the Healing Crystal, it is made of Selenite and has been embedded with the sacred prayers, rituals, blessings and energy of each of those 78 Wisdom Keepers. It was finally handed down to Little Grandmother, Kiesha Crowther. When she turned 30, she was chosen to be the last Wisdom Keeper to have this amazingly sacred crystal.

Its power is so great that it blistered her hands when she held it - which is why she now only holds it in its leather cover. It is her 'job' to put it back in its right place - filled with the love and intention of so many pure and beautiful beings. This crystals 'job' is to help the Earth heal herself in her time of need. That is why it is being placed in Japan - to help heal the waters and earth from the human accident of Fukushima.

Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Autumn on May 01, 2014, 11:02:29 pm
I admit that I am no medical expert, but a recent post on LG's Facebook page says that her brother, Kent, has been diagnosed with a disease.  This is the exact quote:

Quote
Little Grandmother just found out that her brother Kent has radiation poisening in his thyroid. Please dearest brothers and sisters, say a prayer for him, send him love and healing.

Radiation poisening (I think they meant poisoning -- written by her wife, Joyce)??

Is it possible to diagnose radiation poisoning of the thyroid? 

It seems to me that this is just another of her "fear based" claims (not that her brother is not nor could not be ill).  She keeps telling everyone to "fear not" and to just keep sending out love and everything will be okay, then she says something like this when a poster asked her if her brother who has radiation poisoning is in the U.S.:

Quote
it is everywhere dearest brother

She has been busy this week planting crystals in the waters of Japan, so maybe she needs to plant some more crystals in the U.S.

Her sidekick, Jens Glende, was back on the job helping her carry the crystal in the recent ceremony to "charge up" the crystal which she just planted in Japan.  He carried out this same duty when she planted a crystal in Holland last year.

(I never could figure out why it is necessary to carry the heavy crystal so that it is close to the participants.  If it is so powerful that it can carry energies through centuries, then why do you need to be so close to it in order to "charge it up"?) ??? ???
Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: ShadowDancer on May 02, 2014, 01:16:43 am
I admit that I am no medical expert, but a recent post on LG's Facebook page says that her brother, Kent, has been diagnosed with a disease.  This is the exact quote:

Quote
Little Grandmother just found out that her brother Kent has radiation poisening in his thyroid. Please dearest brothers and sisters, say a prayer for him, send him love and healing.

Radiation poisening (I think they meant poisoning -- written by her wife, Joyce)??

Is it possible to diagnose radiation poisoning of the thyroid? 

I had an employee who had cancer of the thyroid.  It was attributed to her father having participated in nuclear testing in Nevada back in the day.  She was conceived years after his service where he was exposed to the radiation.  He also developed cancer of the thyroid.

Perhaps LG's brother has been exposed to radiation in some way through his occupation?

When the tsunami crippled the Fukashima nuclear plant in Japan, there was a lot of information being written about how radiation affects the thyroid.

From the site of the American Thyroid Association:  http://www.thyroid.org/nuclear-radiation-and-the-thyroid/

Quote
The thyroid gland needs iodine to produce hormones that regulate the body’s energy and metabolism. The thyroid absorbs available iodine from the bloodstream. The thyroid gland cannot distinguish between stable (regular) iodine and radioactive iodine and will absorb whatever it can. In babies and children, the thyroid gland is one of the most radiationsensitive parts of the body.
What is the thyroid gland?

Most nuclear accidents release radioactive iodine into the atmosphere which can be absorbed into the body. When thyroid cells absorb too much radioactive iodine, it can cause thyroid cancer to develop several years after the exposure. Babies and young children are at highest risk. The risk is much lower for people over age 40. Thyroid cancer seems to be the only cancer whose incidence rises after a radioactive iodine release. Potassium iodide protects only the thyroid, but it is the organ at greatest risk from radioactive iodine.
Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Autumn on May 02, 2014, 03:04:54 am
Thanks for your comments, ShadowDancer.

That has got to be a tough diagnosis for a doctor to make, because not everyone has an obvious connection to radiation exposure (although LG says "it is everywhere"). 

I was doing a little bit of research online and it is really weird that in certain types of thyroid cancer, "radioactive iodine" is used to treat the cancer after surgery. 

http://www.endocrineweb.com/conditions/thyroid-cancer/thyroid-cancer

Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Sturmboe on May 02, 2014, 05:06:04 pm
There are different types of radiation, which act differently aggressive and have a different half-life. In the treatment of certain thyroid carcinomas radioiodine therapy can be treated with the radioactive isotope 131. The half-life of this radioactive substance is as far as I know 8 days. This iodine 131 is stored only in the thyroid and decays there.
This therapy is used only in those thyroid carcinomas when the pathologically altered tissue iodine 131 stores, as this iodine to destroy the affected tissue locally. The therapy, however, also applicable to other thyroid diseases.
The limited treatment time, Joddosis, other Basismedikamentation and Quarantine of the patient is always adjusted individually, the treatment here in Germany may only be performed by specially trained doctors, and not every employee in the hospital must deal with it or treat the patient. The treatment is dangerous, like any therapy with radiation or chemotherapeutic agents.
Everyone responds differently to therapy, some have hardly any problems, others have pain, edema, and are so weak that they can hardly stand on his legs and the everyday can barely cope.
The recovery is different, depending on the type and aggressiveness of Carcinomes, whether lymph nodes are involved or not ... and fate.

   
Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Paullouie on November 03, 2014, 09:21:12 pm
Hello I've posted a video about kiesha crowther and have started my own expose on her and her tribe of many colors bs, I am enrolled here in the confederated tribes of the salish and kootenai tribes, I've started to interview our communications director and will be interviewing our head of culture.

My tribe has also passed a resolution combating these new age frauds like kiesha



n 1999, this government passed a resolution vowing to battle those who take tribal traditions and twist them into creations of fiction to make money. Below is the resolution in full.
Resolution No. 00-19
RESOLUTION OF THE GOVERNING BODY OF
THE CONFEDERATED SALISH AND KOOTENAI TRIBES
OF THE FLATHEAD NATION
BE IT RESOLYED BY THE TRIBAL COUNCIL OF THE CONFEDERATED SALISH AND
KOOTENAI TRIBES THAT,
 
WHEREAS, the Confederated Salish and Kootenai Tribal Council has the responsibility to preserve and protect all resources of the Flathead Reservation; and
WHEREAS, the Congress of the United States proclaimed intent to secure protection to the Indian Religious Freedom Act, PL. 95-341, Stat. 469 (1978) and the Executive Order #13007; and
WHEREAS, the traditional cultural religion of the Salish people and the Kootenai people of the Flathead Reservation continue to be jeopardized by non-Indians “wannabes,” hucksters, cultists, commercial profiteers and self-styled “New Age Shamans” and their followers; and
WHEREAS, for too long we have suffered the unspeakable indignity of having our most precious ceremonies and spiritual customs abused; and
WHEREAS, with horror and outrage we see this disgraceful expropriation of our sacred traditions has reached epidemic proportions in urban areas throughout the country; and
WHEREAS pseudo-religions corporations have been formed to charge people money for admission into phony “sweat lodge” and “vision quest” programs; and
WHEREAS, sacrilegious "Indian-Ceremonies" for non-Indians are being conducted by charlatans and
Cult leaders who promote abominable and obscene imitations of our ceremonial rites; and
WHEREAS, non-Indians have organized themselves into imitation “tribes” assigning themselves make believe “Indian-names” to facilitate their wholesale expropriation and commercialization of our traditional cultural religion; and
WHEREAS, academic disciplines have sprung up at colleges and universities institutionalizing the sacrilegious imitation of our spiritual customs by students and instructors under the guise of educational programs in “shamanism”; and
WHEREAS, non-Indians charlatans and “wannabes” are selling books, herbal plants, ceremonial items and audio/visual materials that promote the systematic colonization of our spirituality; and
WHEREAS, the television and film industry continue to saturate the entertainment media with vulgar, sensationalist and grossly distorted representation of traditional cultural religion which reinforce the public's negative stereotyping of Indian people and which gravely impairs the self-esteem of our children.; and
WHEREAS, non-Indians individuals and cults of various nature will conduct workshops that exploit and make instant experts that will further desecrate by imitating our ceremonial ways and by mixing such imitation rituals with non-Indian occult practices in an offensive and harmful pseudo-religious hodgepodge; and
WHEREAS, the absurd public posturing of this scandalous assortment of pseudo-Indian charlatan, “wannabes”, commercial profiteers, cultists and "New Age Shamans” comprises a momentous obstacle in the struggle for our survival of our Traditional Cultural Ceremonies: and,
WHEREAS, this exponential exploitation of our traditional cultural religion requires that we take immediate action to defend our most precious resource "Our ceremonies" from further contamination, desecration and abuse; now therefore.
BE IT RESOLVED, by the Tribal Council of the Confederated Salish and Kootenai Tribes that we not support any individual or groups that persist in exploiting, abusing and misrepresenting Salish and Kootenai Traditional Cultural Ceremonies;
BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED, we urge our people to coordinate with their members living in urban areas to identify instances in which our traditional cultural ceremonies are being abused and to resist this abuse, utilizing whatever specific tactics are necessary and sufficient – for example, demonstrations, boycotts, press conferences and direct intervention;
BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED, we especially urge all our Salish and Kootenai people to take action to prevent our own people from contributing to and enabling the abuse of our sacred ceremonies;
BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED, we urge all people and governing councils of all other Indian Nations for an immediate end to this rampant exploitation of our sacred traditions by issuing statements denouncing such abuse, for it is not only one Indian Nation whose spiritual customs being systematically violated by non-Indians;
BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED, keeping in heart and mind our highest duty as Salish and Kootenai is to preserve the purity of our precious Traditional Cultural Ceremonies for our future generations, so that our children and our children's children will survive and prosper in the sacred manner intended for each of our respective peoples by our Creator.

This was passed by the Tribal Council of the Confederated Salish and Kootenai Tribes by a vote of 6 to 0, one abstention on October 14, 1999, and further signed by the Tribal Chairman and administration’s Executive Secretary.
 
Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Paullouie on November 03, 2014, 09:22:24 pm
Here's the video


http://youtu.be/dmI8swSzROk
Title: Re: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Defend the Sacred on November 03, 2014, 10:01:31 pm
Thank you for making the video! One thing to think about... the wind noise is making it really hard to hear you in a lot of of this. My hearing is OK, and I'm really straining to hear you. I know it would be a drag to redo it, but I think we could get more views on this if you would consider talking either indoors or, if outdoors, somewhere out of the wind and any background noise.

Either way, thank you for coming forward!
Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Epiphany on February 07, 2015, 04:34:20 pm
Quote
Shamanic Journey in Dalfsen (The Netherlands)

Dear Brothers and Sisters

Many of you have asked me if there was something personal they could do with me to deepen their understanding and relationship with the other side, Mother earth and their own spirit. The answer is Yes there is! Since arriving in Holland I have been searching for sacred land, with the four elements available and where it is remote enough to lead a very small group of people into a sacred shamanic journey. I am now excited to say I have found the place!

I would like to invite you to a two day Shamanic Journey in a wonderful place in Dalfsen, in the northern part of the Netherlands. The group will be very small, no more than 10 people so that I can focus deeply on each individual personally and help guide them through their own Journey.  Food and drinks will be provided throughout the stay. The place in Dalfsen is very remote, we can see the stars at night, there is a lake and a lot of land, where we can deeply connect to Mother Earth. There we will find peace and stillness in order to go deeply into the meditative state, to speak with personal guides and totem animals as well as letting go of old patterns, wounds to clear a clean path into higher realms. A shamanic Journey is a very personal journey, where you can let go of or ask for what your highest self needs at this time and I will be with you the entire step of the way.

In this journey you will make contact with your spirit animals, your ancestors, and your Great I Am. You will start working with your animal guides. You will learn more about your life purpose. The journey will help you clearing and cleaning your past and any dysfunctional family patterns.

We will start in the morning, and finish around 5-6pm the next day.

Price: 475 euros (incl. BTW), drinks and food included.

Please feel for yourself if this shamanic journey resonates with you, if you would like to join me please contact us for more information and to reserve your spot: beautyawakens@gmail.com

If you would like to join, but the dates are not suitable for you, please let us know, and we will try organize a second shamanic journey within the next few months.

love

Little Grandmother

http://littlegrandmother.net/events-calender/ (http://littlegrandmother.net/events-calender/)
Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Epiphany on November 05, 2015, 02:47:14 am
Deposit $40 / 30 euros directly into her bank account (paypal also available) and she will send you a lot of b.s. http://littlegrandmother.net/services-animal-totem/

She also is promoting Grandmother Signe Katrine Maso, a "Saami Shaman"  http://littlegrandmother.net/grandmother-signe-coming-to-the-netherlands/
Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: educatedindian on January 27, 2018, 01:42:35 pm
Crowther's claim of stopping her fraudulent claims is once again phony. While she no longer claims to be Lakota or Salish, and she's scared of protests should she come back to the US, she still does faux generic Native ceremony all over the world (bolded). Mostly Europe, mostly Netherlands, but also Asia, South Africa, and Mexico.

---------
https://www.facebook.com/pg/littlegrandmother.kiesha/events/
FEB 3 Shamanic Journey (French Translation) in Switserland
Feb 3 - Feb 4 · 31 guests
Landguet Ried, Seminar- & Begegnungszentrum

FEB 25 Workshop in South-Africa
Sun 10 AM UTC+02 · 7 guests
The Shed at Cranmore Lodge Wakkerstroom, South Africa

MAR 24 Advanced Shamanic Journey
Mar 24 - Mar 25 · 85 guests
Isis Sofia Dalfsen, Netherlands

Shamanic Journey near Frankfurt Mar 31 - Apr 1 · 29 guests
Ober-Ramstadt, Germany

APR 29 Maya Trip with Little Grandmother
Apr 29 - May 8 · 188 guests Monterrey, Mexico

JUN 2 One week of shamanic work in the south of france
Jun 2 - Jun 9 · 41 guests La Vie Tara Lalouvesc, France

Past Events
NOV 24 Special evening with Little Grandmother in Roermond (NL):
Fri 7:30 PM UTC+01 · 373 guests Royal Theater Roermond Roermond, Netherlands

NOV 15
Kiesha Crowther, "Little Grandmother" uitverkocht
Wed 8 PM UTC+01 · 62 guests
Spiritueel Centrum Nederland Almere-Stad, Netherlands

NOV 15 Kiesha Crowther, "Little Grandmother" uitverkocht
Wed 7:30 PM UTC+01 · 66 guests
Spiritueel Centrum Almere Almere-Stad, Netherlands

NOV 4 Shamanic journey in Dalfsen (NL)
Nov 4, 2017 - Nov 5, 2017 · 88 guests
Isis Sofia Dalfsen, Netherlands

OCT 21 Creating a Sacred Site or Medicine Wheel
Sat 10 AM UTC+02 · 50 guests
Swynnerton Lodge Retreat, Black Castle, Navan, Co Meath

OCT 13 Workshop: “Creating a sacred site or medicine wheel”
Fri 10 AM UTC+02 · 57 guests Worriken Butgenbach, Belgium

OCT 7 Shamanic Journey in Frankfurt (Germany)
Oct 7, 2017 - Oct 8, 2017 · 80 guests
http://www.natuerlich-lindenhof.de/kontakt/anfahrt/

SEP 21 Little Grandmother - Time to get to work!
Thu 8 PM UTC+02 · 285 guests
Op Hodenpijl Schipluiden, Netherlands

SEP 16 Four directions and Medicine Wheel
Sep 16, 2017 - Sep 17, 2017 · 90 guests Landguet Ried, Seminar- & Begegnungszentrum

SEP 9 Global Healing Medicine Wheel Ceremony
Sat 7 PM UTC+02 · 1,872 guests Utrecht ~ Janskerk The Netherlands

MAY 14 Die vier Elemente in uns
May 14, 2017 - May 15, 2017 · 63 guests Burgruine Aggstein

APR 25 Shamanic Journey in Dalfsen (NL)
Apr 25, 2017 - Apr 26, 2017 · 9 guests Isis Sofia Dalfsen, Netherlands

APR 1 Shamanic Journey in Bern (Switserland)
Apr 1, 2017 - Apr 2, 2017 · 20 guests Niederwangen, Ried

MAR 3 Little Grandmother in Hong Kong and China
Mar 3, 2017 - Mar 12, 2017 · 7 guests Hong Kong

FEB 18 Shamanic Journey in Dalfsen (NL)
Feb 18, 2017 - Feb 19, 2017 · 33 guests Isis Sofia Dalfsen, Netherlands

JAN 5 Shamanic Journey in Dalfsen (NL)
Jan 5, 2017 - Jan 6, 2017 · 29 guests Isis Sofia Dalfsen, Netherlands

DEC 3 Shamanic Journey in Dalfsen (NL)
Dec 3, 2016 - Dec 4, 2016 · 41 guests Isis Sofia Dalfsen, Netherlands

OCT 5 Messages from Mother Earth
Wed 7:30 PM UTC+02 · 179 guests Spiritueel Centrum Nederland Almere-Stad, Netherlands

SEP 24 Shamanic Journey in Dalfsen (NL)
Sep 24, 2016 - Sep 25, 2016 · 116 guests Isis Sofia Dalfsen, Netherlands

JUN 26 Heart and Soul Festival
Sun 2 PM UTC+02 · 578 guests ECI Cultuurfabriek Roermond, Netherlands

JUN 18 Four Directions and medicine wheel
Jun 18, 2016 - Jun 19, 2016 · 27 guests Lithuania

MAY 28 Swimming with Dolphins and Whales in the Azores (Portugal)
May 28, 2016 - Jun 4, 2016 · 30 guests Azores, Portugal

MAY 20 Kogi Elders (group that many Nuage make false claims about) in Belgium
Fri 7 PM UTC+02 · 293 guests Oostmalle, Belgium

MAY 14 Kogi Elders in Belgium
Sat 9:30 PM UTC+02 · 402 guests Kortessem, Belgium

MAY 5 Little Grandmother going to Beijing
May 5, 2016 - May 7, 2016 · 6 guests Beijing, China

APR 29
Little Grandmother going to Hong Kong
Apr 29, 2016 - May 8, 2016 · 12 guests Hong Kong

APR 2 The four directions and Medicine wheel
Apr 2, 2016 - Apr 3, 2016 · 63 guests Canton of Bern

MAR 19 Shamanic Journey in Jersey (UK)
Mar 19, 2016 - Mar 20, 2016 · 179 guests Jersey, Uk

MAR 16 Lecture in Joure (Friesland)
Wed 7:30 PM UTC+01 · 9 guests Joure, Netherlands

MAR 13 Lotusbeurs in Houten (NL)
Sun 12 PM UTC+01 · 100 guests Expo Houten Houten, Netherlands

FEB 12 Lecture and Workshop in Istanbul (Turkey)
Feb 12, 2016 - Feb 13, 2016 · 31 guests Istanbul, Turkey

JAN 23 Shamanic Journey in Dalfsen (NL)
Jan 23, 2016 - Jan 24, 2016 · 54 guests Isis Sofia Dalfsen, Netherlands

JAN 13 Lecture in Delft
Wed 8 PM UTC+01 · 103 guests Op Hodenpijl Schipluiden, Netherlands

DEC 6 New messages from Mother Earth
Sun 1 PM UTC+01 · 189 guests Oostmalle, Belgium

NOV27Shamanic Journey in Dalfsen (NL)
Nov 27, 2015 - Nov 28, 2015 · 25 guests Isis Sofia Dalfsen, Netherlands

NOV 15 Little Grandmother near Frankfurt (Germany)
Sun 10 AM UTC+01 · 142 guests Ober-Ramstadt, Germany

OCT 11 Return of ancient wisdom
Sun 1 PM UTC+02 · 250 guests

OCT 8 Drum circle with Little Grandmother and Grandmother Signe
Thu 7 PM UTC+02 · 369 guests Loenen, Netherlands

SEP 27 Seminar and Ceremony for the healing of Mother Earth
Sun 1 PM UTC+01 · 994 guests Ireland

JUL 5 Mama Aarde Familie Festival (MAFF)
Sun 10 AM UTC+02 · 81 guests Recreatiegebied De Banken Zeewolde, Netherlands

JUN 20 Shamanic Journey in Jersey (UK)
Jun 20, 2015 - Jun 21, 2015 · 15 guests St Lawrence, Jersey

JUN 6 The Power from Within
Sat 7 PM UTC+02 · 59 guests Munich, Germany

MAY 23 Swimming with Dolphins on the Azores with Little Grandmother!
Sat 12 AM UTC · 23 guests

APR 25 Little Grandmother in Taiwan!
Apr 25, 2015 - May 5, 2015 · 121 guests Taipei, Taiwan

APR 19 Shamanic Journey in The Netherlands
Apr 19, 2015 - Apr 20, 2015 · 18 guests Isis Sofia Dalfsen, Netherlands

APR 11 Little Grandmother in Norway!
Sat 10 AM UTC+02 · 451 guests http://www.sult.no/sporten/

MAR 15 Mother Earth´s medicine Sun 12 AM UTC+01 · 62 guests
Expo Houten Houten, Netherlands

MAR 8 Little Grandmother in Frankfurt!
Sun 1 PM UTC+01 · 56 guests Frankfurt, Germany

MAR 4 “De grote verschuiving van Moeder Aarde”
Wed 7:30 PM UTC+01 · 56 guests Joure, Netherlands

FEB 13 Shamanic Journey with Little Grandmother
Feb 13, 2015 - Feb 16, 2015 · 20 guests Isis Sofia Dalfsen, Netherlands

JAN 30 Little Grandmother in Lithuania
Fri 12 AM UTC+02 · 26 guests Lithuania

DEC 6 The Four Elements within you
Dec 6, 2014 - Dec 7, 2014 · 15 guests Vienna, Austria

NOV 1 Seminar in Belgium, Oostmalle
Sat 1 PM UTC+01 · 51 guests Oostmalle, Belgium

OCT 19 Workshop in Cape Town, South-Africa
Sun 10 AM UTC+02 · 36 guests Cape Town, South Africa

OCT 11 Being in your full potential, Being the Great I Am
Oct 11, 2014 - Oct 12, 2014 · 25 guests Bad Aibling

OCT 1 De Grote Verschuiving van Moeder Aarde
Wed 8 PM UTC+02 · 132 guests Delft, Netherlands

JUN 21 EARTH AND BEYOND 21 JUNE
Sat 12 AM UTC+02 · 1,649 guests Jaarbeurs Utrecht, Netherlands

JUN 6 Little Grandmother in Switserland
Fri 12 AM UTC+02 · 17 guests Canton of Bern

JUN 1 Little Grandmother in Jersey Island UK
Sun 12 AM PDT · 4 guests St George’s Preparatory School, La Hague Manor, La Rue de la Hague, St Peter

MAY 23 "The four elements within us"
Fri 11 AM UTC+02 · 21 guests

MAY 17 Little Grandmother in Germany
May 17, 2014 - May 18, 2014 · 38 guests Munich, Germany

APR 19 Little Grandmother in Japan
Sat 12 AM UTC+09 · 18 guests

APR 12 Global Healing Meditation in Amsterdam
Sat 8 PM UTC+02 · 450 guests Oude Lutherse Kerk Amsterdam, Netherlands

MAR 21 Lecture and workshop in Cheltenham, UK
Fri 12 AM UTC · 13 guests The Isbourne Cheltenham, United Kingdom

MAR 16 Lecture Little Grandmother in the Lotusbeurs
Sun 12 AM UTC+01 · 39 guests Expo Houten Houten, Netherlands

MAR 1 Little Grandmother visiting Taiwan
Sat 12 AM UTC+08 · 27 guests Taipei, Taiwan
Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Sparks on January 28, 2018, 04:13:08 pm
For upcoming events only, see:

http://littlegrandmother.net/events-calendar

Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Sparks on January 29, 2018, 01:43:00 am
LG has turned on another supporter (must not be getting any proceeds from her book sales!).

Quote
Little Grandmother Kiesha
February 24
Important!

Many of you have received an email from a Tuaca Kelly who is now trying to promote her book ("my prophetic life with Kiesha Crowther") I have no association with this book nor have I ever had a prophetic life with Tuaca Kelly.

Little Grandmother

At the time, there was a response on this site:

http://www.dreamingofwisdom.com/controversy.html
http://www.dreamingofwisdom.com/contraversy-part-ii.html

The book also has a Facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/dreamingofwisdom/

This Tuaca Kelly has her own site here: http://www.lovethemessenger.com
Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Peasant on March 03, 2018, 05:55:04 pm
Wow, it's been a very long time since I've last been on this forum. I just happened to talk about this stuff with a friend who was also into it at the same time as me, about 8 years ago. I'm so sorry to see that Kiesha Crowther is active and thriving in Europe now.

For anyone reading this, who is following her but has some doubts: well done. Don't feel bad about yourself. Take your time to read through this topic and inform yourself. It's very informational, and you will see that she has been lying over and over and over again. Many of the people who are active on this forum, were deceived by people exactly like her.

I've found this recent video of Kiesha Crowther conducting fake Native American ceremonies in my hometown Utrecht. In a former church, which is now a prestigious event hall. I used to pass this church daily, on my way to university... It's right in the center of the city.

https://youtu.be/R06W7q6hlgg?t=20m

The cringe is immense... What would the church council have thought of this? I'm not a Christian, but this is just hugely insulting to two different cultures at the same time.
Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: RedRightHand on March 03, 2018, 07:27:21 pm
I've found this recent video of Kiesha Crowther conducting fake Native American ceremonies in my hometown Utrecht. In a former church, which is now a prestigious event hall. I used to pass this church daily, on my way to university... It's right in the center of the city.

https://youtu.be/R06W7q6hlgg?t=20m

I see white supremacists.

Those grinning white people know she's not Native. They don't care.

They don't want to go anywhere near real Indians. They're happy to have a whitewashed, white face, white dress, fake version of this newage pretendian bs. They hate Natives. They believe Natives are going extinct, or are extinct, and they're happy to hurry it along so there's no one left to tell them to stop their playacting. This is grinning racist evil. No one who is participating in that horror show is spiritual.
Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Sparks on March 29, 2019, 01:19:59 am
For upcoming events only, see: http://littlegrandmother.net/events-calendar

This site now yields a '404' error message. One letter was changed, so now this URL:

http://littlegrandmother.net/events-calender/
Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Sparks on May 10, 2022, 01:40:39 am
Her website http://www.littlegrandmother.net now yields "Error establishing a database connection".

Seems the Facebook Page and the Facebook Profile are the venues she now goes to the market with:

https://www.facebook.com/littlegrandmother.kiesha/. [Little Grandmother Kiesha]

https://www.facebook.com/kiesha.crowther  [Kiesha Rae Crowther]

There is also a public Facebook Group (809 members; no activity since November, 2021):

https://www.facebook.com/groups/IbelieveKieshaCrowther/. [I believe Kiesha Crowther]

Then there is a private Facebook Group (1.1K members):

https://www.facebook.com/groups/146849148671641/  [Tribe of Many Colors Official Page]

There is also a small private Facebook Group (41 members) that may or may not be related:

https://www.facebook.com/groups/731284013678723/  [The tribe of many colors]

I'll add a link that has been posted thrice in the forum, but not in this thread:

https://www.psiram.com/en/index.php/Kiesha_Crowther [English version]

See also the original German version: https://www.psiram.com/de/index.php/Kiesha_Crowther
Title: Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
Post by: Sparks on March 05, 2024, 01:18:37 pm
Her website http://www.littlegrandmother.net now yields "Error establishing a database connection".

Now the very comprehensive website shows: http://littlegrandmother.net

All the other links in my previous post are alive and working.