Ray Harrell & "Keetoowah of Pomona NY&quo

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educatedindian:
Nuyagi Keetoowah Society of Pomona NY
« Reply #55 on: Apr 19th, 2005, 4:40pm » Quote Modify

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AC:
Plus a tendency to use language that is drawn from Nuage more than traditional beliefs.

REH:
Interesting. How old are you?

AC:
And no, Nuage aren't the only ones to use metaphors. But they certainly overuse bad metaphors, and they do it hide their lack of clear thinking. "Mirrors of your mind" is an awful Nuage derived mixed metaphor, a really bad bit of overwriting.

REH:
Actually it comes from Quetzalcoatl and his journey. The four directions carry different mirrors. The Nahua were great pedagogists and I did a production of a new work twenty years ago at the American Indian Community House written by poet Rafel Jesus Gonzalez and translated from the Nahuatl. That was when I built my Meso-American Library. It was good because when my father apprenticed me I already knew the elements of that in the ceremonials. Since both of my fathers were teachers as well as my mother, and since I was trained as a pedagogist in undergraduate and did four years of educational research, it is now my language. It is funny that you call it nuage. Life cannot be expressed directly. Especially in teaching. You mustn't steal the learning by being obvious. In music that is the difference between a teacher and a coach. Remember the first fallacy of teaching is "I tell you therefore you know."

AC:
That, plus the hostility towards enrolled Cherokee, makes me wonder if you have Nuage members that are influencing you.

REH:
No I did a search and came across reference to myself and our community in a Cherokee talk group that used you as the authority for slandering us. We have enough problems in the city as it is. This is a city filled with groups that enjoy poking. We work to be peaceful but we do not let anything get by lest it fester.

That is the source of my hostility. Wouldn't you be PO d if you and your close friends found your name in the fraud column of someone you never knew or heard of? As for the "official" group, I don't like the way they have handled a lot of things including the Churchill issue as well as Red Lake. I had a student who is Sac & Fox go to Germany and talk about blood quantum and racial purity. They told her she was a Nazi. That is too uncomfortably close to Red Lake for my taste. We do not live as private islands in the world. That was never and still isn't an option. The only option is to have the skills to survive and maintain our traditions in the world. Imagine a canoe. Which will you use for the rapids, a lake canoe?

First I don't understand how you could list as nuage TSALAGI the Cherokee language phonetic of Cherokee which is an old idiom no longer spoken. Everyone in North Carolina, here and elsewhere says chalagi or t-s-a-la-gi depending upon their dialect. But New Age? Makes no sense. It's like Nuyagi which we take from Nee yacki, an Algonquin word for the great rock Manhattan is built on i.e. "Place of Rocks." The city of Nyack, New York is a derivative of the word. We are Tsalagi so we say Nuyagi but that is where we get the word. Perhaps they got it elsewhere from the Japanese. Where do you think they got the word Dick-tu-lane-uh?

Secondly: New Age is a type of Commercial Art. It flows from World Music to Steven Spielburg. In therapy it comes from Fritz Perls who founded Gestalt therapy with Laura Perls. Both studied with an Ojibwa in Canada and the mix was Jewish and Canadian Ojibwa. If you want to feel it purely "Canada" read some of the legal works of Rupert Ross or the Indigenous Science books by Physicist David Bohm and F. David Peat. There has been a good dialogue between Indigenous Science and Physics through these European Quantum pioneers. The language is what you call nuage but with an Irish accent since the Ojibwa love to clog.

What was radical in the sixties and seventies is now mainstream both commercially and psychoanalytically. I studied with Ilana Rubenfeld for six years and she was a student of Perls, Feldenkrais and an expert in Alexander as well as being one of the great choral conductors and head of a major music school in New York (92nd street Y). I also worked with the Minimalist Artists in Soho (Experimental Intermedia Foundation) in the seventies and pop culture has absorbed much of our language from that time, including rap. I've also taught many different cultures to sing and relate to their physical instrument in their music. These "nuage" terms may seem to the layman not to be specific in meaning but that is not true in my business. I also worked with Robert Lewis one of the two founders of the Method Acting school and head of Yale Drama. He was Brando's teacher. The people you speak of have absorbed the language of Art, the Theater and physical and psychological therapies. That is not the problem of the language but of capitalism and commerce. I was a part of the people who invented the stuff years ago when I first came to New York. Later the commercial souls took it over to sell it. But they often missed the point. Don't blame the serious artist for the foibles of capitalism.
Ray Evans Harrell

educatedindian:
Nuyagi Keetoowah Society of Pomona NY
« Reply #57 on: Apr 19th, 2005, 5:07pm » Quote Modify

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Rereading all of this work, I missed something that Richard Allen posted. Since he did not equivocate but called me a liar, then it is possible that there is another Richard Allen who claimed to work for the CNO and who wrote a scurrulous article on the religion of 123 million Indigeneous people.....

I keep thinking of those Medicine people who were surprised that their Medicine Wheel was found in Africa as well. We all have to get out a bit.

Richard finished by saying:
I have the advantage of knowing the traditions, the culture and history of the Cherokee people having been reared in a traditional manner in a Cherokee community and accepted as the full blood that I am.

REH:
OK, maybe you weren't the one because that one told me as I remember, that he was not a native speaker of Cherokee but that it was a second language. Obviously I am mistaken about the Baptist. As for blood. That is the first stone, the second is love. As a specialist you know there are seven.

I too have been cared for by the Cherokee people in my most difficult times. When I couldn't relate to Tulsa because of the culture shock, Dr. Gene Curlin and Marvin Curlin practically took me into their home and helped me through. She was an artist who knew the berry dyes and egg yoke on board ancient traditions. Each time I was in need there was a teacher there from the people. That is why I have given the scholarships as my give-back to those who gave to me.

I am culturally 100% Nuyagi Keetoowah. That was one of many horses in my corral. That was the one that the Creator led me to and that is what I do. I certainly don't do it because its fun or financially profitable.

Richard:
I am also a Marine Vietnam veteran so I don't mind a little verbal conflict every now and then.

REH:
You should feel right at home on our Council we have two Special Ops folks from that era. One the Council President and the other retired and you insulted him recently.

Ray Evans Harrell

educatedindian:
Nuyagi Keetoowah Society of Pomona NY
« Reply #60 on: Apr 19th, 2005, 11:17pm » Quote Modify

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Wow,

What a nasty post. You were the one who put Boudinot together with enrollment. I just jumped it to the impulse for the Curtis Act which is when the whole Dawes Rolls that determine CNO membership were taken.

Do you know who Boudinot was? He was the founder of Patterson, N.J. Watie took the name. Seems maybe there was a connection between Patterson where the Sand Hills are and John Ross. Otherwise how would Watie know to take the name? I would recommend that you read all of the Cherokee Phoenix translations that are available on the Internet. That gives you a good feel for the history from the Christian Cherokee perspective.

You all continue to confuse the Priesthood. I would recommend that you read "Tribes that Slumber" so you can get it straight. Our Founder. my father, was one of the resources for the book put out by the Univ. of Tenn.

The Nuyagi Keetoowah has only one site and you have never seen it. The Sand Hill site is a historian site by a member of the Cherokee Nation with BIA card. A man who is a national resource for Indian rights organizations, has an Indian Foundation and has had breakfast with the President. He grew up in Sand Hill and his family has been there over the period of its development. No one knows more about that then he. When he says Keetoowah he means religion and when he says Nuyagi he means here in the "place of rocks". He means the group that came here and has a history with a Stompground that was noted in the newspapers of the day even though it was illegal. The whites thought it was novel and so didn't bother them. He has notes of it in the 1928 newspapers. His work is in the Museums. He is a member of our Stomp Ground and former Council Member but IT IS NOT A NUYAGI KEETOOWAH SOCIETY, INC. website or has anything to do with our official duties, etc. He dances also in Oklahoma where he says and their approval is between him and them. You should read the site carefully so you understand Stokes State Forest where they met in 1928 for the fire with our Founder. He passed that fire to me in 1984 and I have been the keeper of it down to the present. That is not all that I keep. But the Sand Hill site is a historian site and is subject to the same rigors as all history. We are proud of him but you have to take his context for his paper, not what you believe in your minds or what anyone else says.

If you want to understand the quote on the Futurework site then read the whole thread. It is much too complicated for you to judge simply by extracting that information. Intent is always a part of the message and you miss that by not reading the thread. The Futurework site is also NOT A NUYAGI KEETOOWAH SOCIETY, INC. website. It is however a very good international discussion of the problems of work that we face in our pursuit of employment for our people. Not a bad thing to know.

That being said. You know only what I have written about us and you have to read it all to get the point. My writing is Cherokee English. It doesn't scan and it is often in the passive voice with a stress on the processes rather than the nouns and objects. That is the way my family taught me English.

As for judging my tradition. Who made you the authority on tradition? It is not traditional to be disrespectful to a man with "gray hair." I said all of the right things, the cues and the cliches and you didn't know them. An Indian child would understand about snow in the hair.

I'm going to leave it at that. You may read for a while and then I will delete the posts as I don't want to leave this around. You have already stirred up enough mischief and taken time away from my family. You have also started a connection with Tahlequah that I have deliberately avoided because of growing up on Indian land and having to deal with governments. I don't do that and that is why I am here and in the private sector.

Finally, if you don't know the power of naming then you should go ask your parents because they messed up. Wannabe is common but so was the N word when I was growing up and they said Segregation was OK. Accusing someone of lacking authenticity is to judge their soul. That is the real curse not saying that someone is a s**t head. The next time someone comes to audition for me from Oklahoma and is a member of the CNO I will remember to ask them if they wannabe an opera singer or are they just faking it. (just joking)
Goodby

REH

educatedindian:
Ray, your post here was removed. For one thing, it's identical to what you posted elsewhere.

But more importantly you need to read the notices at the top of topics before you just start posting away. Show some basic politeness and quit being disruptive. The purpose of the archives are just that, for storage. Discussions are meant to take place in the other threads.

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