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Ray Harrell & "Keetoowah of Pomona NY&quo

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educatedindian:
Re: Nuyagi Keetoowah Society of Pomona NY
« Reply #34 on: Apr 18th, 2005, 12:39am »  Quote  Modify  

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Osiyo,  

My name is Ray Evans Harrell and I am from the Nuyagi Keetoowah Society, Inc.    I have posted on the Introductions part of this web site and if you have other questions I would suggest that you ask them of me and not of people who I know and don't respect or who have never met me but make judgements based upon mirrors of their own  minds.  The simplest act of respect is to talk to a person rather than about that person.    

I called the High School Counselor Dr. Richard Allen and he did not convince me that he was equipped to make the judgements he made.   There are many Cherokee communities in Oklahoma and they are varied.   Sterotypical statements are what drive the children away since they don't care to live "out of time."    

We suggest an alternative that allows people who leave home to still practice their faith.   People are in all levels of self-understanding and many who went to schools on Indian land had all languages deemed :"foreign" forbidden to them.   That tendency is still being driven by a Cherokee member of the Oklahoma legislature from Comanche with her "English only" bills.   Some, including Dr. Allen, did not have the advantage of having their language and some were not in jail or collaborating with the government and taking roll numbers.    

This complex situation demands that you understand completely since you have appointed yourselves judges.   Does that not mean that you should at least conduct a "discovery phase" including witnesses before you hold a trial?

I am very busy as I am not a professional Indian but earn my living in the world and practice my religion privately.   It is not only a faith but a religion because it brings people like myself, who are away from home and family, together to worship in the present in the traditions of our Cherokee families.    That has nothing to do with casinos or government land or funds.   We made another choice four generations ago and we still are.  

Thank you for your attention and I am at your service,  

Ray Evans Harrell  
 IP Logged

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RAY EVANS HARRELL, artistic director
THE MAGIC CIRCLE OPERA REPERTORY ENSEMBLE, Inc.
THE AMERICAN MASTERS ARTS FESTIVAL BIENNIAL
200 WEST 70TH, SUITE 6-C
NYC 10023
NUYAGI KEETOOWAH SOCIETY, Inc.&  

educatedindian:
Re: Nuyagi Keetoowah Society of Pomona NY
« Reply #38 on: Apr 18th, 2005, 9:02am »  Osiyo Vance,  

I'm going to leave this on the list in the service of transperancy.   Normally I would answer personal questions personally.   I'm aware of the problem of the internet because the quotes of my posts to the economist's Futurework List are now a part of the internet search engine mythology.      

I went to bed last night and surprisingly when I got up this morning it had snowed and I can't get that white out of my hair.   I have to go the VA and see if they can do anything about it but I suspect it's just there and I will have to accept it.  

I appreciate your letter and spirit and will answer it in parts as I must teach, rehearse students for auditions and (seriously) go to the VA today.  

Just read your more aggressive second letter and the webmaster's as well.   If you google my name you will see a lot of what I do.  Yes the website is incomplete because we are opening a new Blog that will be interactive in American Arts and are slowly reconsidering our considerable monthly expense for this one.    

You would also find an entry on google for my late father who was the first Doctor's degree counselor at College High in Bartlesville and facilitated that work with minorities and upgraded the program in the 1960s and 70s.   So calling Allen a High School counselor is what he said to me and a degree in psychometrics or counseling is not a bad thing but a good thing.   I could not, however, imagine the attitude of “judgment of people you don't know??? as being a scholarly one.   Chief Ross of the UKB called here years ago and questioned us and we were open and told him who we were and there was no issue.   There is a difference in Indian Country between a question and a challenge.     We also sent our scholar's newsletter several year's ago to the CNO and Charlie Soap and had several conversations with him as a friendly hello but Oklahoma's business is their own as is ours.   They don't need us mucking around in it and having "opinions" about them.   I got that in Oklahoma myself.    

You may even know my Creek relatives from Okmulgee and I know that the CNO has had dealings with my relatives in Muskogee.  I tried in the Bird administration to make peace with them but that administration was too uppity to consider doing such a thing.   Now the average Cherokee is paying for it.    I will check with the relatives and connect you off list if they agree but let me just say that the politics of government involvement is not unfamiliar to me.   I was born in Ada and grew up in Picher and my father was the School Superintendent who had to deal with the government for the schools and Johnson O'Malley.  

As for nuage.   I would suggest that speaking metaphorically is not the sole property of the children of Fritz Perls.    They learned it from Indian people and traditional Ojibwa people in Canada at that.    

Must go now but will answer all of the questions as my time permits.  

oneh dodada gohv'i  

Ray Evans Harrell  

 IP Logged

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RAY EVANS HARRELL, artistic director
THE MAGIC CIRCLE OPERA REPERTORY ENSEMBLE, Inc.
THE AMERICAN MASTERS ARTS FESTIVAL BIENNIAL
200 WEST 70TH, SUITE 6-C
NYC 10023
NUYAGI KEETOOWAH SOCIETY, Inc.&  

educatedindian:
 Re: Nuyagi Keetoowah Society of Pomona NY
« Reply #40 on: Apr 18th, 2005, 1:48pm »  Quote  Modify  

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Osiyo Joseph,  

He doesn't.    

We don't mention his name because he was disgraced in his relationship with our Founder and my adopted Father who took him into his home as an apprentice.    Whatever he did, it was bad enough to be shunned and considered dead by my Father.     That was all before 1983.  

We abide by that ceremonial that was done long ago.   As far as we are concerned, that's all there is.  

The person you asked about doesn't exist as far as the Nuyagi Keetoowah Societies and Grand Council is concerned.    Maybe he's a ghost.    

Our council has written a letter stating that we are the only Nuyagi Keetoowah Societies, Inc and we have the Stomp Ground passed to us by the Indian League of the Americas when they disbanded.   (That is probably the root of the "Mohawk" story since their President was Mohawk, but the Indian League was started by a Cherokee and had every tribe represented.  Our Founder was once a member of the Indian League as well.)

We mean no ill will and everyone has to listen to their own vision given by the Creator and walk their path but this is ours and we keep a very close watch on it both spiritually and legally.  

Donada Gohv'i  

Ray Evans Harrell

 IP Logged

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RAY EVANS HARRELL, artistic director
THE MAGIC CIRCLE OPERA REPERTORY ENSEMBLE, Inc.
THE AMERICAN MASTERS ARTS FESTIVAL BIENNIAL
200 WEST 70TH, SUITE 6-C
NYC 10023
NUYAGI KEETOOWAH SOCIETY, Inc.&  

educatedindian:
Nuyagi Keetoowah Society of Pomona NY
« Reply #44 on: Apr 18th, 2005, 9:37pm »  Quote  Modify  

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CONTINUED:  
Vance continued:  
As for the comment about “mirrors in their own minds??? I’ll assure you I am objective and in making that comment, am I seein’ just the shinin’ glimmer of a mirror? Well, I can understand yuo bein defensive . . .  

REH:
As has been said so often  "One may think they understand what they heard or read but if they are to know what was meant they have to ask the author."    Or just poke a hole in the mirror.  

Vance:  
iii.] you said—There are many Cherokee communities in Oklahoma and they are varied.   Sterotypical statements are what drive the children away since they don’t care to live “out of time.???  

Well I live in Oklahoma as have my ancestors since about 1828 (I have proof, with a coupe of periods missing, one in Ark and another in Tx). In the physical universe where we live—it is physically impossible to live “outside of time???. Can you elaborate?  

REH:
"outside of time" refers to the serious expression of a people in the world, i.e. its culture and art.    All culture and art is site/time specific.   Old art teaches us about our ancestors and other cultures.   Contemporary Art is a pursuit of the values of the artist and culture in the present.   Being "outside of time" means that someone does not know themselves but is just imitating.    The first rule is "know yourself."  

Vance:  
iv.] you said—We suggest an alternative that allows people who leave home to still practice their faith.  
 
reply—no one opposes that. Your website claimed yall had the blessings so to speak of the “revered??? Keetoowah Society (as yall put it) of Oklahoma (paraphrasing) and yall obviously don’t. Can you explain?  

REH:  
You are confused.   Our website is closed.   Some of our members dance in Oklahoma and elsewhere and have friends there.   You may believe you know what they meant but you should ask them if that was what they said.   Being from Oklahoma I know better than to use someone else to validate myself.   They don't do that and neither do we.   Each ground is separate and we are not the only stompground to have the relationship with both State and IRS.   I know of at least one other.  
 
Vance:  
v.] you said—That tendency is still being driven by a Cherokee member of the Oklahoma legislature from Comanche with her “English only??? bills.  
 
Ray, the last time my direct ancestors came back to Indian Territory in the late 1880s they lived near what became Duncan (Duncan was just an empty spot on the map when they moved there) in the Chickasaw Nation. My grandparents were married at Loco, Chickasaw Nation in 1904, 3 years before sattehood. It wasn’t 10 miles from the little town of Comanche, which was on the border of the Chickasaw Nation and the Comanche Tribe. I can drive there in maybe 75 or 90 minutes—I have been there and know the little town. Who are you talking about that is in the Ok Legislature? Can you give me some details.  

REH:  Last year I spoke with an Oklahoma Senator who was from Comanche who had proposed an English only statute in the State legislature.     Because I am in the Arts and encourage people to know many languages for living in the modern world, I called her and questioned her.   I mentioned Indian languages and she said that she was Cherokee and she still though English should be the official language.   Since you are from there.   Look her up.   I don't remember her name.  
 
Vance:  
vi.] you said—Some, including Dr. Allen, did not have the advantage of having their language and some were not in jail or collaborating with the government and taking roll numbers.      
 
reply—I can’t get a handle on what you are trying to say. Which language? what jail? You are talking about something that you have obviously left out. Please elaborate.  

REH:  
Study the history of the Keetoowahs or just study the great Willard Stone family.   They were not government collaborators in the death of the nation and they were not in jail to be given roll numbers.   Now that is harsh but no more harsh that the "official" government's harassment of Cherokee groups around the country through their officers like Kirk and Allen.    There are many serious traditional and learning Cherokee people out here beyond the limits of government connections.   It may very well be time for a new Four Mother's Society that goes to the Four Directions and gathers the dis-enfranchised Indian People into some sort of entity not unlike what Smith and others had at the turn of the last century.    It's a great history filled with genuine heroes.   It doesn't only belong to the authorized but to all Cherokee people.  

Continue for one more: REH

educatedindian:
Nuyagi Keetoowah Society of Pomona NY
« Reply #45 on: Apr 18th, 2005, 10:05pm »  Quote  Modify  

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Vance said:  
vii.] you said—This complex situation demands that you understand completely since you have appointed yourselves judges.   Does that not mean that you should at least conduct a “discovery phase??? including witnesses before you hold a trial?  
 
reply—someone placed faulty information online, ie—yall are accepted by the Oklahoma Keetoowah Society (paraphrasing) and that is why yall came up here, I am pretty sure. When you make claims online you might not realize that some people who know of the REAL Keetoowah might be lisnin . . .  In teh big city, in NY and NJ where there are no or few Cherokee, you are far removed and think it is save to talk about a few thousand people isolated in small towns and farms of rural NE Oklahoma, and you can claim to be some of them. Who will ever know?  

REH:  
Vance that is insulting.    Are you challenging me?  

As for the big city.   There are more Indian people in the New York Metropolitan area than in any area of comparable size and population in the country.   And a very large percen

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