NAFPS Archives > Archive No. 1
Fake, Wannabe, or Would Be Tribes
educatedindian:
Bryant" <bryanth@presidiotex.com>
Date: Mon, 20 Sep 2004 19:09:44 -0000
Subject: [newagefraudsplastichshamans] Jumanos reemerge from history
I know these people. They live near here. You all should find this interesting:
http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/metro/stories/MYSA091304.1A.jumanoapache.78d53974.html
+++++++++++++++++++++++
West Texans seek official status as tribe
Web Posted: 09/14/2004 03:48 PM CDT
Jesse Bogan Express-News Border Bureau
REDFORD —— Enrique Madrid's black hair hangs near his shoulders for the first time since the 1960s, when he protested the Vietnam War.
Now he wants long braids like Sitting Bull, the 19th-century Sioux leader. "Maybe I will live up to his goodness," said Madrid, 56, a leader in an effort to round up the Jumano Apache people and get them recognized by the government as a tribe.
Recognition could bring some prosperity to a part of the West Texas borderlands that always has been squeezed by the economics of isolation. But proving the Jumanos are a distinct subgroup of the
Apache won't be easy — they disappeared from the historical record around 1700.
"There really isn't any question that the group existed," said Robert Mallouf, director of the Center for Big Bend Studies at Sul Ross State University in Alpine. "It's a matter of being able to trace
them through time. If they can't show continuity from the early historical period into the present, then it may be difficult to get federal recognition. But I am not saying it's impossible."
The Spanish mentioned the Jumanos near here, at the confluence of the Rio Grande and the Río Conchos, in expedition records from the late
1500s, long before there was a Texas or a Mexico.
Some scholars say the Jumanos were absorbed by the Apaches, who themselves were pushed into the area mainly by the Comanches during
the second half of the 17th century.
If recognized by the U.S. Department of Interior's Bureau of Indian Affairs, a Jumano Apache tribe would be headquartered in Redford, govern itself and could attract federal funds and development
projects.
"Hopefully, it will help us overcome what we've had to live with for 150 years as Americans," Madrid said at his home, which is crammed with fossils, photographs, books and a few Mexican and U.S.
flags. "As Americans, we are just poor. We need a better state of being."
There are no schools in Redford, a crumbling crop of trailers, old adobe and cinder block homes clustered on a dry horizon near Big Bend
Ranch State Park. Kids go to school in Presidio, 15 miles away. Unemployment is 22 percent in Presidio County. Median income is half
the state average. The nearest hospital on the U.S. side of the border is in Alpine, 100 miles north.
National attention came to Redford in 1997 when a U.S. Marine on a drug-interdiction training patrol shot and killed a young U.S. citizen tending goats.
"This is one of the poorest places in the United States and one of the most mistreated," Madrid said. "We need a Marshall Plan after the war on drugs. The government defeated us. Now they need to build us up."
County Judge Jerry Agan said he wasn't aware of the goals of the Jumano group.
"It's kind of strange the way they are trying to do it because they haven't asked for our support on it at all," he said. "It just seems kind of far-fetched to me."
educatedindian:
Jumanos Pt 2
Agan said the Tigua tribe, which has a reservation in El Paso, bought a large ranch near Valentine and is trying to get federal trust status for it, which would bring tax benefits but move it out of the
county's jurisdiction.
"The main thing that really disturbs us with the Tiguas, and if (the Jumanos) try to do it down in Redford, is they wouldn't have to abide or comply by any of our groundwater regulations," he said.
"That's a real hot topic. We are very hesitant about supporting something that would take anything out of local control. They could conceivably set up operations and sell water."
Tigua Gov. Art Senclair said his tribe has no plans to sell water. Neither do the Jumanos, said another of its leaders, Gabriel Carrasco of El Paso.
"We want our identity back," said Carrasco, 64, who restores cars and makes crafts. "And later on, if we are recognized, establish some jobs for the people. We are going to build a culture center as soon as we have money or a grant to do it."
The center would be on 5 acres already donated in Redford. The Jumanos, with 386 registered members so far, also want their own school.
"We don't want a reservation, but we do want to be able to create jobs for the people and restore the community," Carrasco said.
The letter of intent filed by the Jumano Apache tribe with the Bureau of Indian Affairs is one of 200 pending applications from across the country, said Nedra Darling, an agency spokeswoman in Washington.
There are 562 federally recognized tribes, but only three in Texas: the Kickapoo near Eagle Pass, the Alabama-Coushatta in East Texas and the Tigua, also known as the Ysleta del Sur Pueblo.
Tribes benefit from a direct relationship with the U.S. government.
"Like any other local and state government in your area you can ... determine what the needs are for your citizens of the tribe and request those government programs for your tribal members," Darling said. "You might find a need in education, housing, labor, USDA with their WIC program or Indian health."
But the Jumanos will have a tough time reaching that point. Although a 2000 study in the American Journal of Human Genetics supports the notion many in the area are descended from indigenous
Americans, it doesn't identify tribes.
Some Jumanos have relatives registered as Indians in baptismal records in Ojinaga, across the border from Presidio, but no tribe is mentioned there, either, Carrasco said.
"It's not a one day thing, or even a year," said Ignacio Menchaca de la Vega, 65, of San Antonio, who is in charge of the application.
One reason for the hole in the tribe's documented history is a bounty set on Indians in the area in the early 1800s, he said.
"If you said you were Native American, if you said you were Jumano Apache, you were a dead Jumano Apache. Simple as that," de la Vega
said, adding that many of them blended in with Mexicans for survival.
"Now the question is, how can you verify that you are ... Jumano Apache? And that's why we have to go back into history and verify the family tree and (get) information documented."
There is controversy over what language the Jumano spoke or if Jumano was just a general term for "tattooed" or "striped" Indians. Scholars
refer to the many questions as the "Jumano Problem."
Madrid, whose home is a short walk from Indian archeological sites, said that's an "academic problem, not a real problem." His own family
tree and the verbal histories that have been passed down around him are proof, he said.
educatedindian:
educatedndn" <bigi_again@yahoo.com> Add to Address Book
Date: Sun, 19 Sep 2004 13:47:35 -0000
Subject: [newagefraudsplastichshamans] Re: new agers adopting ndn children/repurcussions
Here's the irony in how the two main groups Nuage frauds abuse react to it: Most whites tend to move on from Nuage after a year or two,
minus their money and dignity and possibly worse, and often still filled with stereotypes and spiritual hunger. But those with distant or small amounts of NDN ancestry, understandably they will hold on
for much longer, maybe their whole lives as Vance points out.
I don't see much chance for them to ever get fed recognition because the feds have become much more unlikely to do that. Problem is how
they create problems for those who deserve recognition, like the legit Lumbee.
Part of what drives these phony tribes is the grant money they can get for pursuing (or claiming to) pursue fed recognition. And we can't really lobby against that because I don't see how you can cut
that off without cutting off legit groups too.
--- In newagefraudsplastichshamans@yahoogroups.com, "Vance Hawkins"
<vhawkins@p...> wrote:
> has anyone thought of this one? I sure didn't, Mr. Chief Kodiak has > adopted ndn children. Now can you imagine how screwed-up those
kids > will be!
>
> ===========
>
> In a generation or 2 the distinction between "Indian" and "playing > Indian" will be more blurred than it is now. Yeah I thought about
the > repurcussions of this and mentioned it on the old nafps group, but it > didn't get any response. Prob'ly my fault. I'm not much of an "idea"
> salesman. Maybe I don't word things right or something. But I have > thought of the repurcussions.
>
> Today there are an aging first generation of fake tribes and bands, > originally created in the mid/late 70s, and many still exist. But > their kids and grandkinds are growing up attending Pow-Wow's they are > organizing themselves, usually back East, and they are becoming more > and more accepted in their local communities, as Indian. Many of these > groups (but not all) call themselves "Cherokee" and many members
> don't have a drop of Cherokee Blood.
>
> Many of these people possibly had a great grandma who was Indian, > others maybe not, I don't have any way of knowing. Some groups are
> more legit than others, but it is difficult to know as each group > says the other one is the fake one. But local officials in their > home towns are really not interested one way or the other I don't
> think. Folks, the longer these groups exist the more credibility they > will be perceived as having. If "Kodiak's" band still exists in 50 > years, and if his descendants maintain it, and if they do have
Indian > blood just not necessarily Lumbee -- and there are hundreds of > similar groups still around 50 years from now also -- what will that mean?
>
> And how will your grandkids perceive these groups, when many members of many of these groups are going to be able to prove they have a
little Indian blood?
>
> There are a lotta people with "a little" Indian blood who are not eligible for federal recognition (I'm one of them), and they often attach themselves to a "salesman" like this "Chief Kodiak". A lotta these groups have been proven fraudulent, but they are still around.
>
> =================
>
> All that saved me from being a member of one of these gorups is where I was born. A person in Oklahoma who said they were gonna start a
> band of Indians would get laughed to death and booted out of town and I might get sent to the fruitcake bin. :) But had I been born in Alabama or Virginia I'd definitely think about belonging to one of those groups.
>
> Al mentioned a difference between New Age frauds and people with an Indian ancestor, who are being scammed by fake chiefs and fake
bands There is a difference. Most likely some of us are probably partly descended from a tribe or tribes that were declared extinct a century
> or 2 ago. That's why we sometimes have trouble tracing ancestors to any roll in existence today -- the tribe dissapeared from history before those rolls came into being. As the Cherokee have always said -
> - these people are possibly NOT Cherokee but from some group that has dissappeared -- extinct.
>
> I don't wanna belong to or support those fake tribes and bands and > phoney chiefs -- they are a joke -- but at the same time I know 50 > years from now conditions might change and they might get federal recognition, and people like me and my descendants who avoid them will be left out -- again -- that thought does cross my mind.
>
> So when you say --
> "has anyone thought of this one? I sure didn't, Mr. Chief Kodiak has > adopted ndn children. Now can you imagine how screwed-up those
kids > will be!"
>
> It made me think. I'm descended from Indians who were raised White, who tried their best to be White, and finally became White. That's why I thought it was important to show the family photos on the photo section here. We get "Whiter" every generation.
>
> There are already a lot of us who are screwed up! :) My family's been screwed up for generations now . . . If you'll read some o' the things I put to paper here I hope that'll be all the proof you'll
> need to be agreein' with that assessment . . .
>
> vance
educatedindian:
Vance Hawkins" <vhawkins@pacer.com>
Date: Fri, 17 Sep 2004 00:52:07 -0000
Subject: [newagefraudsplastichshamans] Re: Open Letter to Vernon Tanner/ Vance
you said --
> Vernon Tanner received $100,000 from the ANA and was not able to
produce a single Indian in his lineage.
reply
ANA monies have been abused -- All the fake Cherokee tribes seem to
have applied for these grants and have had them approved. Now ANA
grants are an area that ought to be researched. It'd be interesting
to find out where their money has gone.
I don't think much of state recognition anymore altho I once
considered applying to a state recognized tribe. It's too easy for
the situation you describe, general fraud -- to occur.
you said --
Besides that, what is keeping any Indian group or special interest
group from being just that? Any of them can apply for 501(c)(3)
status. They don't need recognition by the state to be groups or non-
profits. This is something being spearheaded by non-Indians (like
Vernon Tanner and others), and they are the ones who are going to
benefit from it.
reply --
ALL the fake Cherokee tribes are 5013C's -- all of them. Some claim
federal recognition because the government "recognized" their 5013c
status and the name of their nonprofit group in their application
was "Cherokee/Chickamauga/Tsalagi Tribe/Band/Nation of Name a State
or Region". Thus they reckon they are federally recognized Indians.
vance
educatedindian:
Hasan Grooms" <hasan_al_amriki@yahoo.com> Add to Address Book
Date: Thu, 16 Sep 2004 06:53:29 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Re: [newagefraudsplastichshamans] Open Letter to Vernon Tanner/ Vance
The point wasn't about the word "mingo" or about the Chickasaw once residing in SC, it was about the Chaloklowa Chickasaw being a non-existent entity and a white man using white skin priviledge to make it exist and have that acknowledge as authentic by his white peers.
Vernon Tanner received $100,000 from the ANA and was not able to produce a single Indian in his lineage. And eventhough he is white he is appointed to the SC Commission of Minority Affairs as the first Native American (just because he is white and says he is Indian, he is believed), and he will be overseeing the application process of real Indians seeking (finally) recogniton from the State of SC.
But this recognition doesn't really help Indians it helps whites. There will be three levels of recognition.
1. You may petition as an Indian tribe. (Indians)
2. You may petition as an Indian group. (Indians & non-Indians)
3. You may petiton as special interest group who have an interest in native art written into their mission statements. (Anybody and everybody)
Now you can just imagine what is going to happen: "White Bear Runs-The-River" is going to say, I have an interest in native pottery, so I can apply for state recognition. And when he gets state recognition he will tell everyone and anyone who will listen that he is recognized as Indian by the state of SC. No one is going to ask him about his level of recognition.
Besides that, what is keeping any Indian group or special interest group from being just that? Any of them can apply for 501(c)(3) status. They don't need recognition by the state to be groups or non-profits. This is something being spearheaded by non-Indians (like Vernon Tanner and others), and they are the ones who are going to benefit from it.
In fact, if you petition as an Indian tribe you must forfeit the right to sue the state for land and also any gaming rights. And while the issue is not neccessarily about land or gaming rights, it is about having the right to sue the state if that is what we so desire. What other groups are forbidden from suing the state? A non-citizen has that right, but we don't?
Anyway, these people benefit by simply being white and not by their merit, that is how they can get things like the above done and earn the recognition of their peers as being genuine Indians even if they lack a single drop of Indian blood.
Hasan
Vance Hawkins <vhawkins@pacer.com> wrote:
. . . You claim to be the "Mingo" (or "Chief") of the Chaloklowa
Chickasaw Indians in South Carolina . . .
There were Indian peoples living near the Scioto River in Ohio until
hte mid 1790s called "Mingo" -- I have copies of maps that mention
them, but I am not sure who they were associated with. I have read
conflicting reports, some mention Iriquois, some Shawnee, and some
mention Delaware. If anyone knows I'm curious . . .
Being a Muscogeean language "Mingo" sounds right, a prominent
Chickasaw chief "the Mountain Chief" of the 1780s was Piomingo -- so
that sounds right.
Navigation
[0] Message Index
[#] Next page
[*] Previous page
Go to full version