NAFPS Archives > Archive No. 1
Fake, Wannabe, or Would Be Tribes
educatedindian:
"Vance Hawkins" <vhawkins@pacer.com>
Date: Sat, 02 Oct 2004 21:47:20 -0000
Subject: [newagefraudsplastichshamans] Re: Cherokee Convention Debates Fake Tribes
I once emialed someone in the Cherokee Nation's registrar's office in
Tahlequah. I was told (paraphrasing) "Do you have any idea of the
number of phone calls, e-mail,s letters in the mail, saying 'we just
got our names put on the rolls, now tell me where our Indian money
is?' "
Then the person in the registrar's office has to inform them that
they are sorry, but they never received Tribal Membership in THE
Cherokee Nation, but rather in some group calling itself the
Cherokee/Chickamauga/Tsalagi Tribe/Nation/Band of
Alabama/Georgia/Arkansas/Missouri/Ohio, ad infinitum . . .
And once receiving this "membership" often the first question they
ask is "where is my Indian money?"
vance
--- In newagefraudsplastichshamans@yahoogroups.com, "educated_ndn"
<educated_ndn@y...> wrote:
> http://www.cherokee.org/TribalGovernment/Executive/CCC/claremore.txt
>
>
> I'll call your attention to another problem
>
> 4 that will arise here. Whenever there is money
>
> 5 involved -- and rest assured that this is considered by
>
> 6 many people, money, money only. In fact, we had some
>
> 7 rather very harsh words not long ago, and my wife
stepped
>
> 8 in between me and a guy at the Indian Hospital up here
>
> 9 about that matter.
>
> 10 A man that I had grown up with who had said
>
> 11 some most unkind things about the Welches being Indians
>
> 12 when we went to high school. In fact, we fought about
it
>
> 13 then, and we almost fought about it up here just
>
> 14 recently.
>
> 15 And I saw him, and I said, "Aren't you
>
> 16 so-and-so," and he said, "Yeah, I know who you are;
>
> 17 you're Butler Welch." I said, "Yes, I am. What are you
>
> 18 doing down here; why are you here?" He said, "I've got
>
> 19 a card number. I've got a roll number." I said, "How
in
>
> 20 the world did you ever get a roll number?" He said, "My
>
> 21 grandfather was so-and-so, and I got a roll number, and
>
> 22 I'm one hundred and one sixty fourth or some such a
>
> 23 matter."
>
> 24 Well, my next remark was one calculated to
get
>
> 25 a black eye. I resent that. I resent it. I'll say it,
>
>
> COURTEMANCHE REPORTING SERVICE
>
> 31
>
>
> 1 and I don't apologize for anything that I said. This
man
>
> 2 and that family grew up in what we used call, "Nigger
>
> 3 Bend," and that's the wrong thing to say, but that's
>
> 4 where they grew up. And they consistently over the
years
>
> 5 denied that they were any part of Cherokees,
>
> 6 descriminated against them, would not hire them to work
>
> 7 on their property, and now then they're descendents, and
>
> 8 receiving services out here at Indian Hospital, and I
>
> 9 recent it. I don't like it.
>
> 10 I think it's wrong. And that's little and
>
> 11 mean and hateful, and I agree that that's the case. I'm
>
> 12 not going to lie about it that I feel that way.
>
> 13 I don't know how you would go about doing --
>
> 14 what to do. I just opened Pandora's box that could
cause
>
> 15 litigation for the next twenty-five years, didn't I?
>
> 16 Didn't I, George?
>
educatedindian:
> 17 MR. UNDERWOOD: Well, we've got to
>
> 18 think about it though.
>
> 19 MR. GOURD: What is happening in
>
> 20 three places currently in Arkansas, four in Georgia, one
>
> 21 in Kansas, there's Missouri, when you talk about the
>
> 22 issue of money and the potential for fraud, these people
>
> 23 are selling memberships, and they're Red Nation of
>
> 24 Cherokee Indians; there's a whole list of them. I get
>
> 25 these constantly, and they're charging forty-five and
>
>
> COURTEMANCHE REPORTING SERVICE
>
> 32
>
>
> 1 fifty bucks to get a card.
>
> 2 In one group, if you look at your CDIB card,
>
> 3 it says United States -- no, it says Department of
>
> 4 Insured; it doesn't say United States. But it's an
>
> 5 identical card to CDIB, and then they're showing up here
>
> 6 at the hospital, and people aren't carefully looking at
>
> 7 those cards, and they're getting services.
>
> 8 So, you know, at some point in time, this as
a
>
> 9 separate people, we've got to identify our own citizens.
>
> 10 But this thing of setting up -- I've had people say,
>
> 11 well, why don't we set up some commission that would be
>
> 12 proposed to the Council, the historical documents which
>
> 13 would be acceptable and let people apply under that?
>
> 14 MR. WELCH: I don't know, Charlie.
>
> 15 MR. GOURD: Years ago I was working
>
> 16 with Suzanne Harjo, and we were raticals then and are
>
> 17 now. We tried to get a bill through the Federal
>
> 18 Congress, and called it Psuedo Indian Fraud Bill and
make
>
> 19 it a Federal felony of fraud if you said you were Indian
>
> 20 without reference to and received any benefits.
>
> 21 MR. WELCH: I forgot that you were a
>
> 22 part of that.
>
> 23 MR. GOURD: We had fun with that
one.
>
> 24 MR. WELCH: Well, that just
>
> 25 demonstrates the fact that there are other people in the
>
>
> COURTEMANCHE REPORTING SERVICE
>
> 33
>
>
> 1 Cherokee Nation who are ratical as I. I don't feel
>
> 2 nearly as lonesome as I did a moment ago.
>
> 3 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Excuse me, but I
>
> 4 have an experience that I went through when I was
working
>
> 5 at the Indian Hospital up here at Claremore. This lady
>
> 6 come up to me -- I was on the switchboard. She comes up
>
> 7 to me and she says, "I want an Indian card." I said,
>
> 8 "Ma'am, we don't issue Indian cards here." "Oh, yes,
you
>
> 9 do because my dad got one here." I said, "I'm sorry, we
>
> 10 don't do that. You'll have to to go to a different
>
> 11 place." "No, I want an Indian card."
>
> 12 "Okay. What tribe"? She thought awhile and
>
> 13 she said, "Cherokee will be all right, I guess." And I
>
> 14 said, "Ma'am, we don't choose what we want to be. We
are
>
> 15 already what we were, so if you want to apply for a
>
> 16 Cherokee CDIB card, you'll have to go to Tahlequah.
>
> 17 Creek, you have to go elsewhere. Chickasaw, elsewhere."
>
> 18 "Well, I was just sure I would get a card here." And I
>
> 19 said, "I'm sorry. We don't issue cards here."
>
> 20 But this is the way we're going to let people
>
> 21 say, "Well, Cherokee will be fine. I'll be a Cherokee."
>
> 22 So I had a good notion to tell her, (Cherokee dialogue);
>
> 23 "What is it you want," in Cherokee. That would have
>
> 24 confused her.
educatedindian:
Vance Hawkins" <vhawkins@pacer.com> Add to Address Book
Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2004 21:41:00 -0000
Subject: [newagefraudsplastichshamans] Re: State Recognized Tribes, Va, Al, et al
Sam,
Thank was a very informative site. Thanks.
I wish websites like yours would get more attention, and the sites of
all the fake tribes would come with a warning lable, like cigarettes
do . . .
vance
--- In newagefraudsplastichshamans@yahoogroups.com, "Sam"
<coolrogue1@y...> wrote:
> Vance,
>
> As far as what the Cherokee Nation of Oklahoma thinks about the
> several other Cherokee "tribes" I have a webpage dealing with the
> subject.
>
>
http://www.coolrogue.net/native/manycherokee.html
>
> Sam
educatedindian:
"educated_ndn" <educated_ndn@yahoo.com> Add to Address Book
Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2004 15:22:35 -0000
Subject: [newagefraudsplastichshamans] Re: Chief Kodiak/Cyril Mize
Based on his actual name, Mize possibly could actually have Lumbee ancestry. Or he, like many white Southerners, could have Black ancestry that his family chose to hide by claiming to have NDN in
them.
http://linux.library.appstate.edu/lumbee/16/ALLE001.htm
So I don't think we should argue he's not Lumbee, because we can't be sure at this point. We can and should point to him not being recognized by the NC Lumbee and to his not knowing a thing about his
own culture, or choosing to misrepresent it and himself.
My letters are on the way. I'll post a copy of them in here.
--- In newagefraudsplastichshamans@yahoogroups.com, David T Lowe
<dafydd7916@s...> wrote:
> k.,
> The California corporation is fairly specific that
> they are not associated with the staterecognized N.C.> Lumbee Tribe. However, they do state that they are a> fragment of the "Lumbee Indians of N.C. ". Then, they> claim that they are composed of "Lumbees, Old Cherokee> Bands, Iroquois, Mission, and many other Native> American people seeking to claim their heritage".
> I've attached the application form, so you can see
> what it entails.
>
> Since they do not claim any type of association with> the N.C. tribe, any letter from N.C. stating so is> rather a mute point. The best ammunition for us is to> be able to provide a good history of the corporation,> and a history of the real Lumbee so we can counter> their claims. Including the other Indian tribes is a> catch-all for them, and protects them somewhat from> claims of complete fraud (even though it is).
> I'll see if I can track down a copy of their original
> application for federal recognition, and the resulting> denial. It's been 20-25 years, so if anything still> exists it must be buried in the dust somewhere.
> We should also try and come up with any literature> they publish, in order to point out inaccuracies that> pertain to the different tribes and traditions. I'll> check with the lady that sent the application form and> see if she can pick anything up there.
> I'm working at a disadvantage right now, my home> computer with all my files on Mize, the corporation,> and the Lumbee (and everything else), is down with a> faulty hard drive. I'm having the hard drive replace,> but will try and save the data. Meanwhile, I'm> renting a computer.
> Would love to go to the meeting on the 9th. However,> I'm a single parent and it will be next to impossible> to get down there. You'll have quite a drive yourself> - from Little Rock to Springdale, then down to the SE> corner of the state.
> Let's try to put or heads together and come up with a> unified battle plan to derail this character.
> Paeslo,
> Dave
educatedindian:
littlefeatherspirit66" <littlefeatherspirit66@hotmail.com> Add to Address Book
Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2004 03:31:34 -0000
Subject: [newagefraudsplastichshamans] Re: Chief Kodiak
I've sent an email to the lumbee nation asking for their assistance in contacting Mike Rosses office and a letter to accompany us to the
meeting regarding Chief Kodiak's affiliation with their nation. Here is lumbee nations number; 1-800-659-6585. I will be calling them
tomorrow to make sure someone has read my email.
k. wesho-bauer
--- In newagefraudsplastichshamans@yahoogroups.com, David T Lowe
<dafydd7916@s...> wrote:
> A lady from the El Dorado, AR, area e-mailed me after> she had seen my message to the library there> referencing "Chief Kodiak" (Cyril Mize) and his> "Lumbee Tribe". She was kind enough to send an> attachment with the "Lumbee" application form.
>
> Following is part of her e-mail:
>
> "I have just finished reading the e-mail you sent to> the Barton Library, and I agree with you. This "Chief> Kodiak" moved into the Union County Area about 3 or 4> months ago. And does have some people fooled. He> joined a church and he has some of those people fooled> into thinking he's a real Indian. The program at the> library, was put on by some other people and he just
> pushed his way into it.
> This "Chief Kodiak" aka Cyril Mize is having a meeting> on October 9, he has someone from Congressman Mike> Ross office coming. Also someone coming to register> people to vote. He is trying to get some grants, and> etc. He is getting people to join his open roll !!!!
> You and I both know that is a scam. I would like to> see a stop put to this but I don't know how to do it.
> I am part Cherokee, I am not a part of any group, I> just kinda stay to myself. What this man is doing is> wrong."
>
> My suspicion is that Mize is seeking further
> respectability for himself and his group of
> pseudo-Indians by gaining connections with the
> Congressman`s office. I've written Mike Ross through> his website, exposing this fraud and his organization> for what they are. No response as of yet.
>
> http://www.house.gov/ross/contact.shtml
>
> I ask that members of this group also e-mail Mike Ross> about their concern with Mize's scam, and Ross's> office's association with him.
>
> The site is set up to direct contacts to
> representatives by Zip Code, so you will have to put> the El Dorado zip (71730) in your address in order to> reach him.
>
> Other people/organizations that she passed on to me> for contacting, which I am in the process of doing so> - but have not completed - are:
>
> Bobby Edmonds, Union County Judge El Dorado, Ar. Phone> 870-864-1900/ Fax 870-864- 1902 /
> Email:bedmonds@u...
>
> Don Wales ,President and CEO Chamber of Commerce/ El> Dorado, Ar. Phone 870-869-6113/ Fax 870-863-6115
> Email dwales@b...
>
> El Dorado News-Times/ El Dorado, Ar./ Central
> Switchboard 870-862-6611/ Editorial Department
> 870-862-6610/
> E-mail: eldnews@i...
> Web Site: www.eldoradonews.com
> Caledonia Baptist Church /2192 Wingfield Lake Road/
> Junction City, Ar. 71749 /870-924-5772 (Apparently> the church group Mize has joined).
>
> Anyone interested in contacting the above to warn of> Mize and his phony tribe, please do so. We need to> get this guy stopped before he does more harm.
> Apparently he has been in that area for only a short> time, but is already entrenching himself and his group> as genuine Indians.
> Thanks,
> Paselo,
> Dave
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