Author Topic: Wayne Mosher, seller of native ceremonies in the Netherlands  (Read 20190 times)

Offline Ingeborg

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Wayne Mosher, seller of native ceremonies in the Netherlands
« on: September 30, 2010, 05:28:11 pm »

Wayne Mosher is a seller of ceremonies and nuager mixing several traditions. Mosher has two websites:

http://wayne71.hyves.nl/

Be careful when opening the link: stereotypical imagery etc.

„Wayne (nature person)

Wayne Mosher

13464 x checked, Hyver since 23-12-2007

My brands Audi, Burger King, Corona, dodge pickup, Ducati, EA Sports, Fanta, Ferrari, Grolsch, Harley Davidson, Pepsi, Rabobank, Samsung, Sony, T-Mobile, Wereld Natuur Fonds

Hangouts: (?) Apenheul (officiële hyve), Boerderij Beekbergen, De Heksenketel, Eetcafé De kleine wereld, Farmer's Steakhouse, Zwarte Cross“


Mosher also advertizes sweatlodges and 'spiritual fairs':

Quote
    *   6 Nov, 09:00: Zweethut-ceremonie
    *   Saturday, 11:00: Spirituele mini Beurs
    *   7 Nov, 11:00: Wandeling Loenense Watervallen.




He furthermore advertizes sweats with Michael Redsky:

„Sweatlodge ceremony

20 Sep, 16:25 - 67 times viewed 
When   6 Nov, 09:00 - 6 Nov, 17:00
City   Teuge

This ceremony will be led by Michael Redsky, a medicine man of the Cherokee.“

The text goes on to explain that a separate sweatlodge for women will depend on the number of bookings, and advises that Mosher will be present, too.

There is a price tag:

Quote
De kosten zullen 50,-- euro per persoon bedragen.

lees ook: http://www.natures-way.mosher.nl/Zweethut.html

So the fee is Euro 50 per person.


This is Mosher's homepage:

http://www.natures-way.mosher.nl/Native-americans(noord).html

He writes about shamanism in all parts of the world, e.g. North America:


„North American shamanism (Medicine men)

The „Indians“ live in the North of America the name is not chosen well as Colubmus believed he was in India.
Therefore the aboriginal population prefer to call themselves „native Americans“.
Or Natives.
We shall continue to use this latter term.
In the utmost North, there are the Inuit, also called Eskimos.
In the rest of the huge continent, there are many other tribes, so e.g.:
Apache
Sioux, comprised of Lakota, Dakota, Nakota, and Blackfoot [sic! ! !]
Iroqui [sic]
Cherokees
Choctaw
Houma
Ojibwa
Shawnee
Cheyenne
Comanches
Mojave
Hopi
Kiowa
Seminole
Apalachee

This list only has the most well-known names of tribes.

[…]

One of us here at Nature's way is of distant descent from the Lakota-Sioux.
He therefore has done the complete initiation to become a medicine man.“

Now, Waynie-Baby, how does this brag go together with your claim:

Quote
I was told, that there is a little Lakota in me, but so little, that I will never claim to be part Lakota.
It is in the region of 1/16th.
Too far away to have any claim whatsoever.
Mijnheer Mosher, you are even selling ceremony with this claim. What a hypocrite you are!



Mosher also offers workjshops:

http://www.natures-way.mosher.nl/workshops.html

„Various workshops are possible with Nature's Way
Click on the menu items at the left-hand side of this page for more information.

Meditation
Spiritual changes
Energy
Stones
Plants and herbs
Animal helpers
Sweatlodge
Prices“


These are Mosher's price tags:

http://www.natures-way.mosher.nl/Prijzen.html

Quote
Onderwerp     Geschatte tijdsduur     meerdere mensen (j/n)     prijs (€)
Behandeling (mens of dier)    30min.    nee    20
Workshop-Meditatie    60min.    ja    50
Spirituele wandelingen    4 uur    ja    15
Workshop-werken met energie    60min.    ja    50
Workshop-werken met stenen    60min.    ja    50
Workshop- omgaan met planten en kruiden    60min.    ja    50
Workshop-dieren met klachten helpen    60min.    ja    50
Workshop-gereedschappen van de sjamaan    60min.    ja    50
Workshop-Totem/krachtdieren    60min.    ja    50
Workshop-Spiritguides    60min.    ja    50
Workshop-sjamanenreizen    60min.    ja    50
Inwijding Reiki1    60min.    ja    50
Inwijding Reiki2    60min.    ja    50
Inwijding Reiki3a    60min.    ja    100
Inwijding Reiki3b    60min.    ja    100
Zweethut-ceremonie    hele dag    ja    50
Inwijding 1e dood der sjamanen    60min.    ja    50
Inwijding 2e dood der sjamanen    60min.    ja    50
Inwijding 3e dood der sjamanen    60min.    ja    50
Inwijding 4e dood der sjamanen    60min.    ja    50
Inwijding 5e dood der sjamanen    60min.    ja    50
Inwijding 6e dood der sjamanen    60min.    ja    100
Inwijding 7e dood der sjamanen (is initiatie tot sjamaan)    3dagen    nee    300

We take due note that Mosher apparently believes that students can learn everything about „working with stones“, with „plants and herbs“, with „shamanic items“, about „totem and power animals“, about „spirit guides“, and „shamanic journeys“ in 60-minute lessons for which he charges Euro 50 per lesson.

According to his price list, Mosher offers „treatment [for] (humans and animals)“ at Euro 20 per 30 minutes. As legislation is pretty similar throughout EU, advertising a treatment (and in Dutch the term implies a medical sort of treatment) is not exactly legal.

Mosher also offers Reiki workshops, also 60 minutes each, at Euro 50 resp Euro 100.

His course to become a shaman in seven parts is also made up of 60 minute lessons at Euro 50 for the first five of them. He charges Euro 100 for the sixth and Euro 300 for the seventh workshop which lasts 3 days. So this is another „how to become an instant shame-on“ course in 3 days and 5 hours.... will cost you a mere Euro 650. Pretty goedkoop, Mijnheer Mosher :sarcasm off:

Although Mosher claims to be of Lakota descent, he does not seem to grasp that the idea of making (white) persons shame-ons in instant courses is pretty much racist, as it carries the concept of white superiority – so superior that whites (the 'better Indian'....) only need days and hours to achieve at something which takes ndns years and decades. To be precise, so is his concept of having 'of course' done a complete initiation to whatever because he is of distant descent.
          


http://www.natures-way.mosher.nl/contact.html

The contact info suggest to contact „Nature's Way“ for agreements and questions:


Quote
Wayne Mosher

e-mail: naturesway@mosher.[....]

telefoon: 06-184011[...]

Lilian Mosher (voorlopig alleen voor dieren-behandelingen)

e-mail: naturesway@mosher.[...]
Het correspondentieadres is: Naturesway

                                                Arnhemseweg [….]

                                                [...] Apeldoorn

Ms Mosher restricts herself to the treatment of animals for the time being. I like this „for the time being“...

 

Mosher not only advertizes Michael Redsky on his sites, but also on other websites like „Spirituality Blog“:

http://spiritualiteit.blog.nl/beurzenevenementen/2009/04/14/drumcirkel-met-michael-redsky#comment-13666

They say about Redsky:
„Some time ago, Michael Redsky, a very gifted Cherokee Indian, has been in our country for various circles and healings. In May, he will come back to the Netherlands.
Wolfhowspeaks has asked Benjamin Twobears to organise a drum circle for Michael Redsky. This will take place on May 30.

A room for 50 persons has been booked. Therefore we ask you to book as soon as possible if you are interested. For more information you can send an e-mail to wolfspoke@ msn[...]“

Er is een zaal gereserveerd waar plaats is voor vijftig personen en vol = vol. Daarom wordt er gevraagd je zo snel mogelijk op de geven als je geinteresseerd bent. Voor meer info en opgave kun je een e-mail sturen naar wolfspoke@msn.com.

Mosher added a comment:

Quote
Geplaatst door Wayne op 25 september 2010 om 18:23

Binnenkort (13-11-2010) weer een drumcirkel met Michael Redsky.
In Teuge.
Ik kijk er al naar uit!

(In the near future (13-11-2010) there will be another drum circle with Michael Redsky. In [the town of] Teuge. I'm looking forward to it!)


Then I found this gem:

http://sjamanisme.paginamarkt.nl/rss/333611.html

Quote
Gevraagd: Deelnemers Aan Zweethutceremonie

Hierbij wil ik de interesse peilen voor een zweethut-ceremonie nabij Apeldoorn.
Bij voldoende aanmeldingen kan het ook doorgaan.

Wayne

Kosten: N.o.t.k. 

Stel een vraag over deze advertentie

Doe een bod op dit object

Informatie over deze advertentie
Geplaatst op :   19-06-2010 om 20:01u
Door:   Wayne Mosher
Provincie   Gelderland
Kengetal:   055
Bekeken door:   191 bezoekers
Aantal vragen:   Er zijn 0 vragen gesteld

Interesse?
Via dit formulier kunt u een bod uitbrengen.

N.o.t.k. 
Jouw bod:    €

As far as I understand this, it is an ad for a sweatlodge ceremony near the town of Apeldoorn and interested persons can book via this site. However, there is no price tag – interested persons are supposed to put in a sum which they consider appropriate („jouw bod“ = your bid). He's not only selling sweats – he's even auctioning them.





Re: Wayne Mosher, seller of native ceremonies in the Netherlands
« Reply #1 on: September 30, 2010, 05:51:01 pm »
ah. was waiting for someone to find something.. thanks Ingeborg, this lights up what was missing.  thanks.
press the little black on silver arrow Music, 1) Bob Pietkivitch Buddha Feet http://www.4shared.com/file/114179563/3697e436/BuddhaFeet.html

Offline Defend the Sacred

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Re: Wayne Mosher, seller of native ceremonies in the Netherlands
« Reply #2 on: September 30, 2010, 06:06:03 pm »
I knew it. For those who haven't been online the past few days, check out:

Wayne's intro thread: http://www.newagefraud.org/smf/index.php?topic=2909.0

And also the Michael Redsky and Uluru threads.
« Last Edit: July 18, 2014, 11:54:53 pm by Kathryn »

Offline Wayne

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Re: Wayne Mosher, seller of native ceremonies in the Netherlands
« Reply #3 on: September 30, 2010, 06:14:39 pm »
I'm in the proces of completly redesigning this site, it would have been better to put it "under construction", this way it seems that i still abide by this site.
About the sweatlodge with Michael Redsky..... i am present there, but i facilitate.
I know that also is offensive, but i have to see it trough, because arrangements have been made.
There can be something i can do...... like ask him the questions you would have for him.
I will contact my webmaster so the website can be put down.
Still..... nothing to hide.
The "agenda" on the hyves-page is not my fairs, or sweatlodge. it is someone elses.
I only am present there also.
The request for the seatlodge was also done for Michael Redsky (when i still tought he was genuine).
I only learned here, that Michael is most probably not genuine.
There can be more around with my name with it, so please alert me to it, since i do not want to do this kind of thing anymore, only the things i feel comfortable with, so no native things.
Or it has to be native european maybe, but i cannot do that also, since i have such a broad heritage.
So i don't fit fully in any culture/heritage.
I will have to make my own, wich is not easy, since any culture can claim the things i believe also.

Thanks for pointing me to this Ingeborg.

Many blessings,

Wayne

Re: Wayne Mosher, seller of native ceremonies in the Netherlands
« Reply #4 on: September 30, 2010, 06:28:13 pm »
you don't have to be there. by resigning you send a good clear message. especially if it means redsky can not perform.  that would be really, for the best. same with any other fair or whathaveyou.. you do not have to be there.

as for no culture/heritage. i can speak on that, i do not have.. so i do not do.  nor do i have to make my own. who says you have to make up your own? no one.. except ego.



press the little black on silver arrow Music, 1) Bob Pietkivitch Buddha Feet http://www.4shared.com/file/114179563/3697e436/BuddhaFeet.html

Offline Wayne

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Re: Wayne Mosher, seller of native ceremonies in the Netherlands
« Reply #5 on: September 30, 2010, 06:33:06 pm »
Just a question .... on the hyves-page there is a picture of a native, is it ok to leave that on there.... i like the picture so much.

Many blessings,

Wayne

Offline nemesis

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Re: Wayne Mosher, seller of native ceremonies in the Netherlands
« Reply #6 on: September 30, 2010, 07:40:44 pm »
Oh dear

"Busted" is the word that comes to mind.
Well found Ingeborg




Offline nemesis

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Re: Wayne Mosher, seller of native ceremonies in the Netherlands
« Reply #7 on: September 30, 2010, 08:04:52 pm »
Just a question .... on the hyves-page there is a picture of a native, is it ok to leave that on there.... i like the picture so much.

Many blessings,

Wayne


Offline flyaway

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Re: Wayne Mosher, seller of native ceremonies in the Netherlands
« Reply #8 on: September 30, 2010, 08:29:45 pm »
 Wayne,
you owe this Micheal Redsky nothing nor keep any commitments to him, he is a fraud and has sucked you into his schemes, Our way is to turn your back on him and walk away. I read the thread on him, I will not rewrite it here but nothing of him is Cherokee not even his songs. He has lied to you, you owe him nothing.
Do you understand the teachings of the medicine wheel?
I see your picture and I see you are a gentle person and give to much of yourself, you are impressionable and are a curious soul, you must learn to be patient though and the right people will come to you. You will not have to search them out. Nature is a great teacher as is the Great Spirit. This is where you should spend your time. :)
Walk with the Sun; Dance with the Moon; Sing with the Stars; But always...Run with the Wind. -
Snow Owl, Nevada. December 8, 2001

Offline Ingeborg

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Re: Wayne Mosher, seller of native ceremonies in the Netherlands
« Reply #9 on: September 30, 2010, 08:41:11 pm »
Well, someone probably assumed 'the injuns' don't read Dutch....


I'm in the proces of completly redesigning this site, it would have been better to put it "under construction", this way it seems that i still abide by this site.

We will see whether your sites will be changed, or taken down.

Quote
About the sweatlodge with Michael Redsky..... i am present there, but i facilitate.
In my country, we got a proverb: The fence is worse than the thief.


Quote
There can be more around with my name with it, so please alert me to it,
Just do the same I did: google 'wayne + zweethut'.


Quote
Thanks for pointing me to this Ingeborg.

You're welcome.


Offline Defend the Sacred

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Re: Wayne Mosher, seller of native ceremonies in the Netherlands
« Reply #10 on: September 30, 2010, 08:59:38 pm »
Just a question .... on the hyves-page there is a picture of a native, is it ok to leave that on there.... i like the picture so much.

Astonishing. Have you no shame? No sense of moral responsibility?

Who is the man in the photograph? What is his name? Did he give you permission to use his image to sell fake ceremonies? If not, you are exploiting that man and his family.

That's not just "a native". That is a person. A person with a family. It is up to the person in the photograph, and his family if he is not still with us, to say whether or not you can use his photograph to promote your shameon business. People are not interchangable. Strangers on the Internet can not absolve you of stealing that man's image to sell your fake ceremonies.

And we are not here to teach you, point by point, how to be a "kinder, gentler" exploiter. I think you came here to try to ease your conscience, but I don't see you wanting to change. I think you came here to waste our time and attempt to manipulate us. Too bad for you we have members all over the world, who were able to find what you assumed we would not see.

Re: Wayne Mosher, seller of native ceremonies in the Netherlands
« Reply #11 on: September 30, 2010, 09:14:01 pm »
i feel bad.. but i know it's up to wayne to see these things and change.. i wish he would.

i don't feel bad that he was scouted out.. or of anything that any of us said to him. i feel bad because he seemed to me a good person underneath it all, misled, and that he left .. because i would have liked to have seen him SEE it and GET it.. so.. it's sad in that way.. and i feel bad for it.
press the little black on silver arrow Music, 1) Bob Pietkivitch Buddha Feet http://www.4shared.com/file/114179563/3697e436/BuddhaFeet.html

Offline Defend the Sacred

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Re: Wayne Mosher, seller of native ceremonies in the Netherlands
« Reply #12 on: September 30, 2010, 11:31:14 pm »
Wayne Mosher is one of the four European men who leads this group: "The Native Way"

They lead "shamanic" "Medicine Walks" [google translation] - "In the Indian tradition is 'medicine' whatever aid the seeker is more connected and to feel in harmony with nature and all life forms. Everything is healing to body, mind and / or soul is 'medicine'."

[lots of stuff about Mother Earth, Grandfather Sun, Totem Animals, etc]

"The Indian way of life can bring about a change in consciousness that new doors open expression and expansion.  The Red People understand is to reach for a different culture, and the beauty of our common paths.  By doing this we are confident that our common goal will be achieved: peace, truth and healing for the children of Mother Earth.  When the Children of the Earth are healed, we can welcome Peace Rainbow in our hearts and trust that any of Medicine Walk the Sacred Path new connectedness with others and Good will bring.  In this way we are living prophecy of the Fifth World of Peace."

the page is signed, "Mitakuye Oyasin"

Wayne's profile page there. [google translation] -

"Hi, I'm Wayne Mosher.
I was born in 1971 in the United States of America. When I was three or one year, I came to the Netherlands.  Later I went looking for my father who has gone back to the U.S. I eventually found it and more.  My father had a colleague who is a Native American.  I asked this man if I could see how he once lived and that was good. There I met a medicine man who taught me the art of medicine.  So since 1993 I have had contact with this medicine, which he has taught me so in the medicijnmanschap.  Since 2006, I therefore call medicine.  In this capacity I am working to make other people aware of their own spirituality and possibly more normality.  From this awareness, people can then continue to grow, with or without my assistance.  In my wanderings, I met many people and I have noticed something that people seek and find that very often the connection with nature. I also met people who have been able to help me further and so I also partnered with three people who then have a different title, but convey the same as I do.  It is therefore that I am now part of 'The Native Way'

I look forward to meet in the flesh, because as a beautiful old Native saying goes: 'a stranger is a friend, you do not know.'"

The other men's bios are interesting as well.

They also have a social networking page: The Native Way. Again, I don't see any Native people participating, but lots of mentions of "shamanism" and videos that claim to be "Native American", or about "Vision Quest",  "The Red Road", and "Medicine". I did not view the videos, but they look to be the usual outsider fantasies, stereotypes, intellectual theft and copyright violations.
« Last Edit: July 18, 2014, 11:56:25 pm by Kathryn »

Offline nemesis

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Re: Wayne Mosher, seller of native ceremonies in the Netherlands
« Reply #13 on: October 01, 2010, 08:58:41 am »
edited as I'd posted something I'd missed that someone else already posted.

Perhaps I could just use this post to say how much I hate is when people end their posts with comments such as "many blessings" or "bright blessings" or some other such thing.

It just sounds really, really condescending IMO.
« Last Edit: October 01, 2010, 09:03:36 am by nemesis »

Offline Superdog

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Re: Wayne Mosher, seller of native ceremonies in the Netherlands
« Reply #14 on: October 01, 2010, 03:31:32 pm »
Both Wayne's site and the Native Way site are some of the most obvious forms of the most current trend in frauds.  Changing the name of what they do to not appear fraudulent.  It's kind of like gathering a crowd at one of these "workshops" and saying:

 "You are participating in a ceremony that is not in any way related to Native Americans.  We respect that culture, these are ceremonies we put together based on knowledge learned around the world.....Now please excuse me while I go in the tipi and put on my buckskin shirt, paint my face and warm up my drum....then we will begin!"

Just because you give it another title (like changing Medicine Man to Nature Man), doesn't mean you're not ripping off another's culture.  In my mind, what you got going on there is a no-brainer and i'm hoping you have a change of heart.  Quit selling spirituality.  If you're teaching workshops and using your story about being trained by a Lakota medicine man...then you are using Lakotas to sell your workshop.  If this person told you, you were a medicine man then that would make you responsible to his community, just as he is.  Making a profit is not the question....if you charge money, it's wrong. 

There's no one here that would have a problem with you practicing what you learned.....none at all.  If you had sweats at your house and did things right...all the better for you.  If your neighbors came over and wanted to learn and participate...as long as you taught them responsibly and truthfully and never asked for anything back...then no one would have a problem with it.  What you're doing...putting a price tag on what is really just a way of life......is just wrong.

I think I understand why you won't cancel Michael Redsky.  I read through the Native Way site and came across the Applied Sciences Terms and Conditions page.  I would guess there's a contract involved and you're worried about the process of cancellation and what that may cost.  So rather than doing the right thing and cancelling an obvious fraud, you'll allow people wanting to learn something they think is authentic from someone who's lying to all of you.  I think you'll find that in any instance you'll find people who would disagree strongly with that sort of motivation.  It also makes a distinction in your decision making that puts money above doing the right thing.  Correct me if I'm wrong but you're comment stated: "About the sweatlodge with Michael Redsky..... i am present there, but i facilitate.
I know that also is offensive, but i have to see it trough, because arrangements have been made." 

Just puttin' it all together that's all.

No matter how long you've participated in the pay-to-pray model of commercial sprituality....it'll never be ok as far as Native Americans are concerned.  Remember profit is not the problem, if you charge then its wrong.  If that means you can't be a guru to people that approach you, then that's what it means.  The picture of Picard slapping his forehead is appropriate in this case.  There's WHOLE LOT you just don't seem to get....it's obvious...but you've got your name out there as a TEACHER of these ways....and that IS offensive.  You've got a lot to learn and student is not even the appopriate word for you....I would place it more as "beginner".  That's not meant to be mean....but I got to be truthful there.  Even the music on your hyves page....very European new age (kind of William Two Feathers style) and not representative of Native music whatsoever.  For someone like me who is a singer....I cringe and get tense every time I see something like that....because it means I'm gonna get a whole new flock of people who are gonna make all the wrong assumptions about me based  on the show they see.  I know they got their fans, but it rubs me the wrong way.  I think one of the most obvious problems here Wayne is your adherence to stereotypes.  You have a lot of faith in positive stereotypes about Native Americans and I commend that attitude....but they're still stereotypes and they're removed from the personal relationships to community and land that show elements of respect.  We're not all noble savages just as we're not all alcholics.  Whatever your poison is in stereotypes, the problem with them is they disregard the evolving nature of our cultures and puts a "stop in time" on expectations of who and what we are.  Every community's different....we all have good and bad things, but that's because we're human beings and not characters on a stage. 

You met and learned from one Lakota man Wayne....imagine a Lakota kid having only one person in their world.  Would that kid really learn anything about Lakota people then??  How much have you really learned?  Does learning from one man make you a teacher??

There was a lot of talk about asking Michael Redsky questions....you may want to ask yourself some as well.

Superdog