NAFPS Forum

General => Research Needed => Topic started by: Ingeborg on September 30, 2010, 05:28:11 pm

Title: Wayne Mosher, seller of native ceremonies in the Netherlands
Post by: Ingeborg on September 30, 2010, 05:28:11 pm

Wayne Mosher is a seller of ceremonies and nuager mixing several traditions. Mosher has two websites:

http://wayne71.hyves.nl/

Be careful when opening the link: stereotypical imagery etc.

„Wayne (nature person)

Wayne Mosher

13464 x checked, Hyver since 23-12-2007

My brands Audi, Burger King, Corona, dodge pickup, Ducati, EA Sports, Fanta, Ferrari, Grolsch, Harley Davidson, Pepsi, Rabobank, Samsung, Sony, T-Mobile, Wereld Natuur Fonds

Hangouts: (?) Apenheul (officiële hyve), Boerderij Beekbergen, De Heksenketel, Eetcafé De kleine wereld, Farmer's Steakhouse, Zwarte Cross“


Mosher also advertizes sweatlodges and 'spiritual fairs':

Quote
    *   6 Nov, 09:00: Zweethut-ceremonie
    *   Saturday, 11:00: Spirituele mini Beurs
    *   7 Nov, 11:00: Wandeling Loenense Watervallen.




He furthermore advertizes sweats with Michael Redsky:

„Sweatlodge ceremony

20 Sep, 16:25 - 67 times viewed 
When   6 Nov, 09:00 - 6 Nov, 17:00
City   Teuge

This ceremony will be led by Michael Redsky, a medicine man of the Cherokee.“

The text goes on to explain that a separate sweatlodge for women will depend on the number of bookings, and advises that Mosher will be present, too.

There is a price tag:

Quote
De kosten zullen 50,-- euro per persoon bedragen.

lees ook: http://www.natures-way.mosher.nl/Zweethut.html

So the fee is Euro 50 per person.


This is Mosher's homepage:

http://www.natures-way.mosher.nl/Native-americans(noord).html

He writes about shamanism in all parts of the world, e.g. North America:


„North American shamanism (Medicine men)

The „Indians“ live in the North of America the name is not chosen well as Colubmus believed he was in India.
Therefore the aboriginal population prefer to call themselves „native Americans“.
Or Natives.
We shall continue to use this latter term.
In the utmost North, there are the Inuit, also called Eskimos.
In the rest of the huge continent, there are many other tribes, so e.g.:
Apache
Sioux, comprised of Lakota, Dakota, Nakota, and Blackfoot [sic! ! !]
Iroqui [sic]
Cherokees
Choctaw
Houma
Ojibwa
Shawnee
Cheyenne
Comanches
Mojave
Hopi
Kiowa
Seminole
Apalachee

This list only has the most well-known names of tribes.

[…]

One of us here at Nature's way is of distant descent from the Lakota-Sioux.
He therefore has done the complete initiation to become a medicine man.“

Now, Waynie-Baby, how does this brag go together with your claim:

Quote
I was told, that there is a little Lakota in me, but so little, that I will never claim to be part Lakota.
It is in the region of 1/16th.
Too far away to have any claim whatsoever.
Mijnheer Mosher, you are even selling ceremony with this claim. What a hypocrite you are!



Mosher also offers workjshops:

http://www.natures-way.mosher.nl/workshops.html

„Various workshops are possible with Nature's Way
Click on the menu items at the left-hand side of this page for more information.

Meditation
Spiritual changes
Energy
Stones
Plants and herbs
Animal helpers
Sweatlodge
Prices“


These are Mosher's price tags:

http://www.natures-way.mosher.nl/Prijzen.html

Quote
Onderwerp     Geschatte tijdsduur     meerdere mensen (j/n)     prijs (€)
Behandeling (mens of dier)    30min.    nee    20
Workshop-Meditatie    60min.    ja    50
Spirituele wandelingen    4 uur    ja    15
Workshop-werken met energie    60min.    ja    50
Workshop-werken met stenen    60min.    ja    50
Workshop- omgaan met planten en kruiden    60min.    ja    50
Workshop-dieren met klachten helpen    60min.    ja    50
Workshop-gereedschappen van de sjamaan    60min.    ja    50
Workshop-Totem/krachtdieren    60min.    ja    50
Workshop-Spiritguides    60min.    ja    50
Workshop-sjamanenreizen    60min.    ja    50
Inwijding Reiki1    60min.    ja    50
Inwijding Reiki2    60min.    ja    50
Inwijding Reiki3a    60min.    ja    100
Inwijding Reiki3b    60min.    ja    100
Zweethut-ceremonie    hele dag    ja    50
Inwijding 1e dood der sjamanen    60min.    ja    50
Inwijding 2e dood der sjamanen    60min.    ja    50
Inwijding 3e dood der sjamanen    60min.    ja    50
Inwijding 4e dood der sjamanen    60min.    ja    50
Inwijding 5e dood der sjamanen    60min.    ja    50
Inwijding 6e dood der sjamanen    60min.    ja    100
Inwijding 7e dood der sjamanen (is initiatie tot sjamaan)    3dagen    nee    300

We take due note that Mosher apparently believes that students can learn everything about „working with stones“, with „plants and herbs“, with „shamanic items“, about „totem and power animals“, about „spirit guides“, and „shamanic journeys“ in 60-minute lessons for which he charges Euro 50 per lesson.

According to his price list, Mosher offers „treatment [for] (humans and animals)“ at Euro 20 per 30 minutes. As legislation is pretty similar throughout EU, advertising a treatment (and in Dutch the term implies a medical sort of treatment) is not exactly legal.

Mosher also offers Reiki workshops, also 60 minutes each, at Euro 50 resp Euro 100.

His course to become a shaman in seven parts is also made up of 60 minute lessons at Euro 50 for the first five of them. He charges Euro 100 for the sixth and Euro 300 for the seventh workshop which lasts 3 days. So this is another „how to become an instant shame-on“ course in 3 days and 5 hours.... will cost you a mere Euro 650. Pretty goedkoop, Mijnheer Mosher :sarcasm off:

Although Mosher claims to be of Lakota descent, he does not seem to grasp that the idea of making (white) persons shame-ons in instant courses is pretty much racist, as it carries the concept of white superiority – so superior that whites (the 'better Indian'....) only need days and hours to achieve at something which takes ndns years and decades. To be precise, so is his concept of having 'of course' done a complete initiation to whatever because he is of distant descent.
          


http://www.natures-way.mosher.nl/contact.html

The contact info suggest to contact „Nature's Way“ for agreements and questions:


Quote
Wayne Mosher

e-mail: naturesway@mosher.[....]

telefoon: 06-184011[...]

Lilian Mosher (voorlopig alleen voor dieren-behandelingen)

e-mail: naturesway@mosher.[...]
Het correspondentieadres is: Naturesway

                                                Arnhemseweg [….]

                                                [...] Apeldoorn

Ms Mosher restricts herself to the treatment of animals for the time being. I like this „for the time being“...

 

Mosher not only advertizes Michael Redsky on his sites, but also on other websites like „Spirituality Blog“:

http://spiritualiteit.blog.nl/beurzenevenementen/2009/04/14/drumcirkel-met-michael-redsky#comment-13666

They say about Redsky:
„Some time ago, Michael Redsky, a very gifted Cherokee Indian, has been in our country for various circles and healings. In May, he will come back to the Netherlands.
Wolfhowspeaks has asked Benjamin Twobears to organise a drum circle for Michael Redsky. This will take place on May 30.

A room for 50 persons has been booked. Therefore we ask you to book as soon as possible if you are interested. For more information you can send an e-mail to wolfspoke@ msn[...]“

Er is een zaal gereserveerd waar plaats is voor vijftig personen en vol = vol. Daarom wordt er gevraagd je zo snel mogelijk op de geven als je geinteresseerd bent. Voor meer info en opgave kun je een e-mail sturen naar wolfspoke@msn.com.

Mosher added a comment:

Quote
Geplaatst door Wayne op 25 september 2010 om 18:23

Binnenkort (13-11-2010) weer een drumcirkel met Michael Redsky.
In Teuge.
Ik kijk er al naar uit!

(In the near future (13-11-2010) there will be another drum circle with Michael Redsky. In [the town of] Teuge. I'm looking forward to it!)


Then I found this gem:

http://sjamanisme.paginamarkt.nl/rss/333611.html

Quote
Gevraagd: Deelnemers Aan Zweethutceremonie

Hierbij wil ik de interesse peilen voor een zweethut-ceremonie nabij Apeldoorn.
Bij voldoende aanmeldingen kan het ook doorgaan.

Wayne

Kosten: N.o.t.k. 

Stel een vraag over deze advertentie

Doe een bod op dit object

Informatie over deze advertentie
Geplaatst op :   19-06-2010 om 20:01u
Door:   Wayne Mosher
Provincie   Gelderland
Kengetal:   055
Bekeken door:   191 bezoekers
Aantal vragen:   Er zijn 0 vragen gesteld

Interesse?
Via dit formulier kunt u een bod uitbrengen.

N.o.t.k. 
Jouw bod:    €

As far as I understand this, it is an ad for a sweatlodge ceremony near the town of Apeldoorn and interested persons can book via this site. However, there is no price tag – interested persons are supposed to put in a sum which they consider appropriate („jouw bod“ = your bid). He's not only selling sweats – he's even auctioning them.




Title: Re: Wayne Mosher, seller of native ceremonies in the Netherlands
Post by: critter - a white non-ndn person on September 30, 2010, 05:51:01 pm
ah. was waiting for someone to find something.. thanks Ingeborg, this lights up what was missing.  thanks.
Title: Re: Wayne Mosher, seller of native ceremonies in the Netherlands
Post by: Defend the Sacred on September 30, 2010, 06:06:03 pm
I knew it. For those who haven't been online the past few days, check out:

Wayne's intro thread: http://www.newagefraud.org/smf/index.php?topic=2909.0

And also the Michael Redsky (http://www.newagefraud.org/smf/index.php?topic=2073.15) and Uluru (http://www.newagefraud.org/smf/index.php?topic=2762.msg24736#msg24736) threads.
Title: Re: Wayne Mosher, seller of native ceremonies in the Netherlands
Post by: Wayne on September 30, 2010, 06:14:39 pm
I'm in the proces of completly redesigning this site, it would have been better to put it "under construction", this way it seems that i still abide by this site.
About the sweatlodge with Michael Redsky..... i am present there, but i facilitate.
I know that also is offensive, but i have to see it trough, because arrangements have been made.
There can be something i can do...... like ask him the questions you would have for him.
I will contact my webmaster so the website can be put down.
Still..... nothing to hide.
The "agenda" on the hyves-page is not my fairs, or sweatlodge. it is someone elses.
I only am present there also.
The request for the seatlodge was also done for Michael Redsky (when i still tought he was genuine).
I only learned here, that Michael is most probably not genuine.
There can be more around with my name with it, so please alert me to it, since i do not want to do this kind of thing anymore, only the things i feel comfortable with, so no native things.
Or it has to be native european maybe, but i cannot do that also, since i have such a broad heritage.
So i don't fit fully in any culture/heritage.
I will have to make my own, wich is not easy, since any culture can claim the things i believe also.

Thanks for pointing me to this Ingeborg.

Many blessings,

Wayne
Title: Re: Wayne Mosher, seller of native ceremonies in the Netherlands
Post by: critter - a white non-ndn person on September 30, 2010, 06:28:13 pm
you don't have to be there. by resigning you send a good clear message. especially if it means redsky can not perform.  that would be really, for the best. same with any other fair or whathaveyou.. you do not have to be there.

as for no culture/heritage. i can speak on that, i do not have.. so i do not do.  nor do i have to make my own. who says you have to make up your own? no one.. except ego.



Title: Re: Wayne Mosher, seller of native ceremonies in the Netherlands
Post by: Wayne on September 30, 2010, 06:33:06 pm
Just a question .... on the hyves-page there is a picture of a native, is it ok to leave that on there.... i like the picture so much.

Many blessings,

Wayne
Title: Re: Wayne Mosher, seller of native ceremonies in the Netherlands
Post by: nemesis on September 30, 2010, 07:40:44 pm
Oh dear

"Busted" is the word that comes to mind.
Well found Ingeborg



Title: Re: Wayne Mosher, seller of native ceremonies in the Netherlands
Post by: nemesis on September 30, 2010, 08:04:52 pm
Just a question .... on the hyves-page there is a picture of a native, is it ok to leave that on there.... i like the picture so much.

Many blessings,

Wayne
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_8Kpbmn03Sxc/SwvjDd5CTII/AAAAAAAAAew/oznshCNaWCo/s400/DoubleFacePalm.jpg)
Title: Re: Wayne Mosher, seller of native ceremonies in the Netherlands
Post by: flyaway on September 30, 2010, 08:29:45 pm
 Wayne,
you owe this Micheal Redsky nothing nor keep any commitments to him, he is a fraud and has sucked you into his schemes, Our way is to turn your back on him and walk away. I read the thread on him, I will not rewrite it here but nothing of him is Cherokee not even his songs. He has lied to you, you owe him nothing.
Do you understand the teachings of the medicine wheel?
I see your picture and I see you are a gentle person and give to much of yourself, you are impressionable and are a curious soul, you must learn to be patient though and the right people will come to you. You will not have to search them out. Nature is a great teacher as is the Great Spirit. This is where you should spend your time. :)
Title: Re: Wayne Mosher, seller of native ceremonies in the Netherlands
Post by: Ingeborg on September 30, 2010, 08:41:11 pm
Well, someone probably assumed 'the injuns' don't read Dutch....


I'm in the proces of completly redesigning this site, it would have been better to put it "under construction", this way it seems that i still abide by this site.

We will see whether your sites will be changed, or taken down.

Quote
About the sweatlodge with Michael Redsky..... i am present there, but i facilitate.
In my country, we got a proverb: The fence is worse than the thief.


Quote
There can be more around with my name with it, so please alert me to it,
Just do the same I did: google 'wayne + zweethut'.


Quote
Thanks for pointing me to this Ingeborg.

You're welcome.

Title: Re: Wayne Mosher, seller of native ceremonies in the Netherlands
Post by: Defend the Sacred on September 30, 2010, 08:59:38 pm
Just a question .... on the hyves-page there is a picture of a native, is it ok to leave that on there.... i like the picture so much.

Astonishing. Have you no shame? No sense of moral responsibility?

Who is the man in the photograph? What is his name? Did he give you permission to use his image to sell fake ceremonies? If not, you are exploiting that man and his family.

That's not just "a native". That is a person. A person with a family. It is up to the person in the photograph, and his family if he is not still with us, to say whether or not you can use his photograph to promote your shameon business. People are not interchangable. Strangers on the Internet can not absolve you of stealing that man's image to sell your fake ceremonies.

And we are not here to teach you, point by point, how to be a "kinder, gentler" exploiter. I think you came here to try to ease your conscience, but I don't see you wanting to change. I think you came here to waste our time and attempt to manipulate us. Too bad for you we have members all over the world, who were able to find what you assumed we would not see.
Title: Re: Wayne Mosher, seller of native ceremonies in the Netherlands
Post by: critter - a white non-ndn person on September 30, 2010, 09:14:01 pm
i feel bad.. but i know it's up to wayne to see these things and change.. i wish he would.

i don't feel bad that he was scouted out.. or of anything that any of us said to him. i feel bad because he seemed to me a good person underneath it all, misled, and that he left .. because i would have liked to have seen him SEE it and GET it.. so.. it's sad in that way.. and i feel bad for it.
Title: Re: Wayne Mosher, seller of native ceremonies in the Netherlands
Post by: Defend the Sacred on September 30, 2010, 11:31:14 pm
Wayne Mosher is one of the four European men who leads this group: "The Native Way (http://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&sl=nl&tl=en&u=http://the-native-way.com/pageID_10116124.html&prev=_t&rurl=translate.google.com&twu=1&usg=ALkJrhjrkQtHWYmeLh9Ox1bqIyXrQ7GZtg)"

They lead "shamanic" "Medicine Walks (http://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&sl=nl&tl=en&u=http://the-native-way.com/pageID_10071833.html&prev=_t&rurl=translate.google.com&twu=1&usg=ALkJrhiK7oDefCVKOmFxl3PLacvx7id4uw)" [google translation] - "In the Indian tradition is 'medicine' whatever aid the seeker is more connected and to feel in harmony with nature and all life forms. Everything is healing to body, mind and / or soul is 'medicine'."

[lots of stuff about Mother Earth, Grandfather Sun, Totem Animals, etc]

"The Indian way of life can bring about a change in consciousness that new doors open expression and expansion.  The Red People understand is to reach for a different culture, and the beauty of our common paths.  By doing this we are confident that our common goal will be achieved: peace, truth and healing for the children of Mother Earth.  When the Children of the Earth are healed, we can welcome Peace Rainbow in our hearts and trust that any of Medicine Walk the Sacred Path new connectedness with others and Good will bring.  In this way we are living prophecy of the Fifth World of Peace."

the page is signed, "Mitakuye Oyasin"

Wayne's profile page there (http://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&sl=nl&tl=en&u=http://the-native-way.com/pageID_10116288.html&prev=_t&rurl=translate.google.com&twu=1&usg=ALkJrhhspVZbZu8R4IX_HGE_OpQxWted0A). [google translation] -

"Hi, I'm Wayne Mosher.
I was born in 1971 in the United States of America. When I was three or one year, I came to the Netherlands.  Later I went looking for my father who has gone back to the U.S. I eventually found it and more.  My father had a colleague who is a Native American.  I asked this man if I could see how he once lived and that was good. There I met a medicine man who taught me the art of medicine.  So since 1993 I have had contact with this medicine, which he has taught me so in the medicijnmanschap.  Since 2006, I therefore call medicine.  In this capacity I am working to make other people aware of their own spirituality and possibly more normality.  From this awareness, people can then continue to grow, with or without my assistance.  In my wanderings, I met many people and I have noticed something that people seek and find that very often the connection with nature. I also met people who have been able to help me further and so I also partnered with three people who then have a different title, but convey the same as I do.  It is therefore that I am now part of 'The Native Way'

I look forward to meet in the flesh, because as a beautiful old Native saying goes: 'a stranger is a friend, you do not know.'"

The other men's bios are interesting as well.

They also have a social networking page: The Native Way (http://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&sl=nl&tl=en&u=http://the-native-way.hyves.nl/&prev=_t&rurl=translate.google.com&twu=1&usg=ALkJrhgFFzySgZD_keEFKNdvCjzn30AwVQ). Again, I don't see any Native people participating, but lots of mentions of "shamanism" and videos that claim to be "Native American", or about "Vision Quest",  "The Red Road", and "Medicine". I did not view the videos, but they look to be the usual outsider fantasies, stereotypes, intellectual theft and copyright violations.
Title: Re: Wayne Mosher, seller of native ceremonies in the Netherlands
Post by: nemesis on October 01, 2010, 08:58:41 am
edited as I'd posted something I'd missed that someone else already posted.

Perhaps I could just use this post to say how much I hate is when people end their posts with comments such as "many blessings" or "bright blessings" or some other such thing.

It just sounds really, really condescending IMO.
Title: Re: Wayne Mosher, seller of native ceremonies in the Netherlands
Post by: Superdog on October 01, 2010, 03:31:32 pm
Both Wayne's site and the Native Way site are some of the most obvious forms of the most current trend in frauds.  Changing the name of what they do to not appear fraudulent.  It's kind of like gathering a crowd at one of these "workshops" and saying:

 "You are participating in a ceremony that is not in any way related to Native Americans.  We respect that culture, these are ceremonies we put together based on knowledge learned around the world.....Now please excuse me while I go in the tipi and put on my buckskin shirt, paint my face and warm up my drum....then we will begin!"

Just because you give it another title (like changing Medicine Man to Nature Man), doesn't mean you're not ripping off another's culture.  In my mind, what you got going on there is a no-brainer and i'm hoping you have a change of heart.  Quit selling spirituality.  If you're teaching workshops and using your story about being trained by a Lakota medicine man...then you are using Lakotas to sell your workshop.  If this person told you, you were a medicine man then that would make you responsible to his community, just as he is.  Making a profit is not the question....if you charge money, it's wrong. 

There's no one here that would have a problem with you practicing what you learned.....none at all.  If you had sweats at your house and did things right...all the better for you.  If your neighbors came over and wanted to learn and participate...as long as you taught them responsibly and truthfully and never asked for anything back...then no one would have a problem with it.  What you're doing...putting a price tag on what is really just a way of life......is just wrong.

I think I understand why you won't cancel Michael Redsky.  I read through the Native Way site and came across the Applied Sciences Terms and Conditions page.  I would guess there's a contract involved and you're worried about the process of cancellation and what that may cost.  So rather than doing the right thing and cancelling an obvious fraud, you'll allow people wanting to learn something they think is authentic from someone who's lying to all of you.  I think you'll find that in any instance you'll find people who would disagree strongly with that sort of motivation.  It also makes a distinction in your decision making that puts money above doing the right thing.  Correct me if I'm wrong but you're comment stated: "About the sweatlodge with Michael Redsky..... i am present there, but i facilitate.
I know that also is offensive, but i have to see it trough, because arrangements have been made." 

Just puttin' it all together that's all.

No matter how long you've participated in the pay-to-pray model of commercial sprituality....it'll never be ok as far as Native Americans are concerned.  Remember profit is not the problem, if you charge then its wrong.  If that means you can't be a guru to people that approach you, then that's what it means.  The picture of Picard slapping his forehead is appropriate in this case.  There's WHOLE LOT you just don't seem to get....it's obvious...but you've got your name out there as a TEACHER of these ways....and that IS offensive.  You've got a lot to learn and student is not even the appopriate word for you....I would place it more as "beginner".  That's not meant to be mean....but I got to be truthful there.  Even the music on your hyves page....very European new age (kind of William Two Feathers style) and not representative of Native music whatsoever.  For someone like me who is a singer....I cringe and get tense every time I see something like that....because it means I'm gonna get a whole new flock of people who are gonna make all the wrong assumptions about me based  on the show they see.  I know they got their fans, but it rubs me the wrong way.  I think one of the most obvious problems here Wayne is your adherence to stereotypes.  You have a lot of faith in positive stereotypes about Native Americans and I commend that attitude....but they're still stereotypes and they're removed from the personal relationships to community and land that show elements of respect.  We're not all noble savages just as we're not all alcholics.  Whatever your poison is in stereotypes, the problem with them is they disregard the evolving nature of our cultures and puts a "stop in time" on expectations of who and what we are.  Every community's different....we all have good and bad things, but that's because we're human beings and not characters on a stage. 

You met and learned from one Lakota man Wayne....imagine a Lakota kid having only one person in their world.  Would that kid really learn anything about Lakota people then??  How much have you really learned?  Does learning from one man make you a teacher??

There was a lot of talk about asking Michael Redsky questions....you may want to ask yourself some as well.

Superdog

Title: Re: Wayne Mosher, seller of native ceremonies in the Netherlands
Post by: Twinkie_Slayer on October 01, 2010, 04:00:28 pm
I'm in the proces of completly redesigning this site, it would have been better to put it "under construction", this way it seems that i still abide by this site.
About the sweatlodge with Michael Redsky..... i am present there, but i facilitate.
I know that also is offensive, but i have to see it trough, because arrangements have been made.
There can be something i can do...... like ask him the questions you would have for him.
I will contact my webmaster so the website can be put down.
Still..... nothing to hide.
The "agenda" on the hyves-page is not my fairs, or sweatlodge. it is someone elses.
I only am present there also.
The request for the seatlodge was also done for Michael Redsky (when i still tought he was genuine).
I only learned here, that Michael is most probably not genuine.
There can be more around with my name with it, so please alert me to it, since i do not want to do this kind of thing anymore, only the things i feel comfortable with, so no native things.
Or it has to be native european maybe, but i cannot do that also, since i have such a broad heritage.
So i don't fit fully in any culture/heritage.
I will have to make my own, wich is not easy, since any culture can claim the things i believe also.

Thanks for pointing me to this Ingeborg.

Many blessings,

Wayne


 Uh huh, yeah right, Wayne. You're full of it.
Title: Re: Wayne Mosher, seller of native ceremonies in the Netherlands
Post by: Defend the Sacred on October 01, 2010, 05:56:18 pm

Both Wayne's site and the Native Way site are some of the most obvious forms of the most current trend in frauds.  Changing the name of what they do to not appear fraudulent.  It's kind of like gathering a crowd at one of these "workshops" and saying:

 "You are participating in a ceremony that is not in any way related to Native Americans.  We respect that culture, these are ceremonies we put together based on knowledge learned around the world.....Now please excuse me while I go in the tipi and put on my buckskin shirt, paint my face and warm up my drum....then we will begin!"


Yes, that is exactly what's going on.
Title: Re: Wayne Mosher, seller of native ceremonies in the Netherlands
Post by: Ingeborg on October 04, 2010, 02:33:38 pm

Although Mosher does leave an immature and rather pathetic impression – even pathetic persons can sell ceremony, and they can of course be a danger to others. His website „The native way“ shows Mosher is part of a network of fakes cooperating with and recommending each other.

The site offers „walks in nature“ http://the-native-way.com/pageID_10071833.html

„In shamanism, there are various ways to get into contact with nature. One of the most impressing ways is medicine walks where one traditionally goes on walks into nature on one's own for three days and on which one can meet oneself and gets helped by nature. The walk is to „bond with nature“. With the plants – and the animal world, with earth and air. These „worlds“ are in harmony and by connecting to them, you can get more in balance. While we walk, nature is thus your 'medicine'. […]
In the Indian tradition, 'medicine' is everything which can help the quester to connect and to feel in harmony with nature and all forms of life. All that heals the body, the spirit and/or soul is 'medicine'.
[…]
For centuries, the Red Peoples have used omens of nature to come to decisions for the entire people. All living creatures have got their own medicine messages which they want to share with those who are prepared to learn their language. All our relatives speak to us in 'Hail-lo-way-ains', the Language of Love. With the help of 'Hail-lo-way-ains', our hearts can feel the answers we receive during the medecine walk, after which healing can take place. [...]“


Mosher has three partners in this business:
Mike Pfundt, a 'druid' and shame-on who mixes shamanism ('Indian' and Siberian) with Celts, druidism, wicca etc.
This is Pfundt's website:
http://www.spirituelepraktijk-de-druide.com/

The contents of his site:
„Shamanism
The Medicine Wheel
The Western Shaman
Power and Totem animals
Birth totem animals
Shamanic instruments
Shamanic costumes
Dreamcatchers


Pfundt is not too spiritual to add a shop section to his site:
http://www.spirituelepraktijk-de-druide.com/pageID_9906650.html

Pfundt sells canvas prints of pictures - the above links to his Indian pictures (to see more pictures, klick at "verder" [continue] at the bottom - but beware, there's lots of kitsch).


The second partner has also got his own websites, e.g.:

http://www.gewoonhenk.nl/pagina1.html

So this is Mr „Ik ben Henk. Gewoon Henk“ - i.e. „My name is Henk. Just Henk“.
'Gewoon Henk' runs a 'spiritual office' – 'for a plain message'. Unfortunately, his message is not plain enough to let people know WTH it is he's selling to customers.... Well, perhaps we may safely assume 'Gewoon Henk' not only likes to express himself as unclear as possible as far as his cumstomers are concerned, but also as far as the Dutch IRS is concerned.

'Gewoon Henk', however, has got a second website, or business, in cooperation with „Jolanda White Feather“.

http://www.spiritueel-delen.nl/wij.htm

Ms Jolanda introduces herself:

„My name is Jolanda White Feather.
When I was a child, I saw various situation who were yet to be, and I thought, everybody knew about them. When I was young, such gifts were usually promptly dismissed as superstition or being from the devil!
My mother, however, always took it serious.
In Indonesia, where she came from, this sort of things were the most normal thing in the world! She passed on much of her knowledge to me. I was also able to receive a lot of knowledge through the teachings I received by an Indian shaman from whom I received an Initiation Ceremony and the name White Feather.
So now, years later, I give consultations and healings, reincarnation sessions, regressions, treatments with ear candles, trauma work, I work on sexual abuse and relationship mediation. […] These treatments are done in my home.

My disciplines:
Messages from the other side
Character analysis
Interpretation of dreams
Paranormal experience
Personal coaching
Relationship advice
Advice in choice of course studies and profession
Future prognoses
Earlier lives
Supportive conversations
Psychological problems
Magnetism

I also offer house cleansings in the Indian way by smudging. Think of not sleeping well, unrest within family/relationship, illness or also entities which you prefer not to have around in the house.
One of my specialties is healing of blockades which can be psychological or physical blockades. These can be a nuisance or hurt which plague you in your daily life.[...]
In short, I am really grateful I am able to help people in this way.
With regards of Light and Love“


Mosher and his partners exchanged links with a number of other shame-ons, alleged healers etc.

One of them is Jose Pellekaan, http://www.josepellekaan.nl

„Welcome to the website of my practice for:
Counseling, Mindfulness Based Cognitive Therapy, Reiki, Quantum Touch,
Sabaaydi & energetic massages and spiritual consultations
New in the practice:
The products of Angel-Touch. I sell crystals, essences, sprays […]. All products have a healing effect.“


Before you go on – Coffee Warning! ! !

http://www.aloha-spiritueel.nl/

This is the site of „Omata Tutini – a Maori woman“.

Careful – please do put down your mug of coffee now!
http://www.alohaspiritueel.nl/Omata.html

„Hi, my name is Omata. I was born on the Cook Islands, near Hawaii and New Zealand. Me Maroi's [sic] to which my family belongs, is the oldest Indian tribe in the world. My grandfather was king on one of the Cook islands. He was a great ruler and healer, he healed and advised his island population with lots of love. My parents were really special and loving persons, my father [..] was a police officer and my mother and granny had the gift of being able to look into the future and of healing.
[…]
Meanwhile, I have been living in the Netherlands for about 20 years now. [...]
As a medium, I go to paranormal fairs throughout the entire country. […]


Mosher and partners also link to:

http://www.redskymedicine.com/

The site does not offer all that much, except for:

„Please be patient while our site is being redesigned“ plus Michael Red Sky's e-mail addy and phone number.


Title: Re: Wayne Mosher, seller of native ceremonies in the Netherlands
Post by: educatedindian on October 04, 2010, 07:41:46 pm
I seriously doubt any Maori would call themselves an Indian tribe.

Mosher is getting more and more threatening. His latest, followed by my final response.

--------------

I do not give permission to use any of my text on your site or forum, so the fair use doctrine (which doesn’t exist in the Netherlands ) is not applicable here.

But you do what you do best…. Bashing people who are trying to help someone else, as you did with a lot of other people too.

It is time somebody does the same to you as you do to others, since I don’t have the financial means to start a lawsuit, you can go on and on with harassing me and others.

Oh and… it’s not an act! It seems you don’t know what spiritual is (anymore).

I’ve seen a lot of discrepancies on the forum, but I do not wish to bash people, so I’ll leave it at this.

Again… I do not want any text which I have the rights to be seen on your site or forum.

You talk about your rights, but at the same time you trample on the rights of others!

As long as any of my text is on your forum and/or site your so called ceremonies and rituals will be posted on mine, since I can appeal to the same fair use doctrine!

Wayne

------------

Mr. Mosher,

Your childish anger does little but make you seem, well, childish. Certainly someone no one should trust as a spiritual leader or healer or even "natureman." Maturity is one of the most basic requirements. You'll notice it was not just me but others who initially thought you were quite young, likely still a teenager, based on your immature behavior. That someone should still be acting this way when they are in late middle age does not speak well of them.

The Fair Use Doctrine is in place and recognized as the law whether you recognize it or not, or whether you like it or not. So all material from your site will remain, since we are both critiquing it as the actions of a fraud and identifying it as the actions of a fraud.

If you want it to no longer be critiqued or identified as such, the simplest way to stop that would be to stop being a fraud. Cease working with frauds like Redsky, and cease pretending to be a healer or teaching about Native ways.

And as far as "ceremonies on our site," you still don't seem to understand. We don't have any ceremonies described on our site, except as enough to help people tell real from fraudulent. We certainly don't have any descriptions in enough detail to perform or give instructions, as that would be unethical and against the ways we've long been taught.

But if you wish to repost anything from our site, by all means, PLEASE DO SO. We are quite happy to let anyone post anything at NAFPS anywhere people can learn from it. Just please be certain to post a link and list the authors, and post entire posts or articles. We actually will thank you to do so.

I don't think there's much more to be gained from talking to you, unless you realize you are doing wrong. So it's quite possible that further emails from you won't be answered. Take care and we will pray for you and hope you learn you are doing wrong and harm.
 
Title: Re: Wayne Mosher, seller of native ceremonies in the Netherlands
Post by: Durare on October 04, 2010, 09:00:45 pm
Well, this has been quite an eye opener! Wayne I'll buy you a shovel so you can keep digging  ;)

Later
Title: Re: Wayne Mosher, seller of native ceremonies in the Netherlands
Post by: critter - a white non-ndn person on October 04, 2010, 09:04:45 pm
I think he meant that as long as his text is on this site, he'll keep the Native ceremonies on his.  Basically, trying to say his posts here are as spiritual and integral to Native Spirituality as the sacred ceremonies are.. that he pretends to know how to run..

Also.. the act of a 5 year old.. "if you don't give me back my ball I'm gonna keep your bat!"..  of course.. though, it's not quite the same since his 'text' is nothing compared to sacred ceremony.. but same mindset as a 5 year old.

edited to add..  OH.. and yeh, the "ceremonies" he's running are not sacred since they are rip offs and no one taught him or gave him permission to run.  Sort of takes the wind out of the sails.. makes the sacred invalid.

Title: Re: Wayne Mosher, seller of native ceremonies in the Netherlands
Post by: Ingeborg on October 07, 2010, 12:45:05 pm


Mr Mosher also makes use of a 'medicine name' and maintains a facebook profile for it:

http://www.facebook.com/people/Wi-Sunkmanitu-Tanka-Mosher/100000200165125

Wi Sunkmanitu-Tanka Mosher

Mosher still makes use of this name, as this entry dd September 1, 2010 shows:

http://huis-en-tuin.infonu.nl/tuin/4001-bouw-een-hut-van-wilgentakken.html

Quote
Door Wi Sunkmanitu-Tanka op 01-09-2010
Een wig-wam is geen hut van takken zoals hier beschreven! Deze wig wam is namelijk een stuk groter en altijd ovaal. [...]


This is a Hyves page where people publish their 'Indian name':

http://indianwisdom.hyves.nl/forum/1588787/5e7q/Namen_en_hun_betekenis/

Quote
Wayne (Natuurmens) (1000)
9 Jun 2009, 07:26
Die van mij is: Wi Sunkmanitu-tanka en dat betekend zoveel als: zonnewolf (of lichtwolf aangezien dat woord voor beiden wordt gebruikt)

Wayne

(Translation: Mine is Wi Sunkmanitu-tanka and that means: Sunwolf (or Lightwolf, since that word is used for both.)


And a forum entry from May 2010 – the thread starter claims to be able to do remote viewing and offers to physically describe persons. Mr Mosher here explains how he allegedly received this name:

http://204.74.214.194/forum1/message1004098/pg113

Quote
Wi Sunkmanitu-tanka
User ID: 974177
Netherlands
5/18/2010 1:22 PM

Re: I do remote viewing ask me about a person and I will describe them physically
Thanks, you were correct in all your remarks.
It was even more astounding since i didn't give my first name given at birth, but my given name, wich i received during my quest to become a medicine-man.
I wonder..... you could probably get my birthname also, without me stating it now.
Give a try, just for fun.

Title: Re: Wayne Mosher, seller of native ceremonies in the Netherlands
Post by: Lodro on October 08, 2010, 06:48:40 am
Interesting that in the article of how to build a willow bower, he takes the author to task for destroying the "saceredness of the inipi"
Title: Re: Wayne Mosher, seller of native ceremonies in the Netherlands
Post by: Defend the Sacred on October 14, 2010, 05:31:18 pm
Also interesting is this instance of a white man calling himself "Sunkmanitu-Tanka", a few years before Mosher began to do so:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YXz7ocFJKv4

Here Mosher critiques someone's website, and tells them how he knows the inside scoop on "the prairie natives":

http://members.multimania.nl/marindaenelze/experiences1.html
google translation (http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=nl&u=http://members.multimania.nl/marindaenelze/experiences1.html&ei=yiilTNLBNoL6lweok4nMDA&sa=X&oi=translate&ct=result&resnum=4&ved=0CCUQ7gEwAw&prev=/search%3Fq%3DWi%2BSunkmanitu-Tanka%2BMosher%26hl%3Den%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26hs%3DzN9%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official):
-----------------------------------------------------------

Wayne
wayne@mosher.nl
http://natures-way.mosher.nl
van s55906165.adsl.wanadoo.nl
12/11/2008 - 16:39 -

Much information is correct, but many do not.
How I know this?
I'm American by birth, with some native blood.
Native blood by this section, I've been in a position to certain habits can observe and learn.
The native blood that I have belongs to the Lakota.
Sioux is a well chosen name for the prairie natives "because they are indeed united war against the whites (yes, the Dutch!).
I also missed a number of tribes within the Sioux are one of the Blackfoot.
Let the rest for myself but because there are many more.
It's not like you say, that the original name is Dakota.
They are different strains, with a very strong structure within the tribes.
 Enough for now.
Also nice that someone here a study of it.

Regards,

Wi Sunkmanitu-Tanka
----------------------------------------------------------------------