NAFPS Forum

General => Frauds => Topic started by: educatedindian on June 09, 2007, 01:37:45 pm

Title: Jimmy La Vallee & Spiritual Warrior Vision
Post by: educatedindian on June 09, 2007, 01:37:45 pm
Some of this guy's practice looks to be vague pop psychology. Other parts of it, like Neuro Linguistic Programming, are dangerous. NLP is commonly used by cults.
   
Like the part about his being an "assistant" to Phil Fontaine. He was a guard. I was a security guard at 18 for a company called Wackenhut. They had me at the corporate headquarters for one of the first big computer companies, Datapoint. That doesn't make me an expert in computers.
 
Much of his story is a call for vague "healing." Of what is generally unclear.

http://www.spirit-warrior.ca/personal.shtml
"It is my quest to providing healthy support, treatment, and training for those who suffer disconnection from their true life force."

Sounds like an electrician is what's needed.

"in 1992, At Paha Sapa  - the Black Hills of South Dakota, I was at my first Experiential therapy group
at Onsite Workshops. In front of a group of 50 strangers, mostly white people"

Onsite Workshops host a lot of vague pop psychology workshops.

"I recall... from a very early age.  I was confused - unhappy, even depressed. I remember seeing members of my family as such unique people... people, that I was in awe of. Yet, I knew they, we were, I was "not living right".

His bio rambles on and on like this. Something not feeling vaguely right, but no real problems except for hints of an abusive father. Kind of like he's doing his best to appeal to lost people living in the suburbs needing direction rather than deal with something as difficult as a violent dad.

"My recovery was achieved and supported through and by countless individual counseling and therapy sessions here at home. Along with self-help groups such as 12-Step types and Adult Children, AA, Neuro-Linguistic Programming (NLP), and a whole library of self-help books on healing and recovery"

Pretty much he seems to be a 12 stepper and self help guru vaguely claiming to use the NDN angle to sell workshops. The NLP stuff is very manipulative, their techniques are widely used by cult leaders.

What he sells:

"Daily Physical Health, Nutrition, and Fitness
Nutrition and Weight-management Seminars
Detoxification and Cleansing Teachings
Emotional Education / Well-Being and Capacity Building Sessions
Self-defense, Personal, Emotional, Empowerment Development. 
Mentoring and Healthy Helping
Fun, Play, Empowering Team Assessment and Development
Personal Resource Maintenance and Management Development"

No sign of him selling ceremony, just a lot of vague things that are not clear if he's actually doing any good. After all, if you're selling weight loss or nutrition courses, why not just call it that instead of the appeal to "pity the poor NDN"?
 
Title: Re: Jimmy La Vallee & Spiritual Warrior Vision
Post by: dabosijigwokush on June 11, 2007, 04:51:11 am
spirit-warrior.ca   Whois Form
Organization:   Jaye La-Vallee
Description:
Admin-Name:     Jaye La-Vallee
Admin-Title:
Admin-Postal:   -
                700 Montrose Street
                Winnipeg MB R3M 3N2 Canada
Admin-Phone:    204-224-9520
Admin-Fax:
Admin-Mailbox:  support@newwinnipeg.net
Tech-Name:      Domain Registrant
Tech-Title:
Tech-Postal:    New Winnipeg Media
                137 Langside Street
                Winnipeg MB R3C 1Z5 Canada
Tech-Phone:     204-783-0935
Tech-Fax:
Tech-Mailbox:   support@newwinnipeg.net
NS1-Hostname:   ns.newwinnipeg.net
NS1-Netaddress:
NS2-Hostname:   ns2.newwinnipeg.net
NS2-Netaddress:
NS3-Hostname:
NS3-Netaddress:
NS4-Hostname:
NS4-Netaddress:
NS5-Hostname:
NS5-Netaddress:
NS6-Hostname:
NS6-Netaddress:

Registration information:  http://www.cira.ca/



Title: Re: Jimmy La Vallee & Spiritual Warrior Vision
Post by: dabosijigwokush on June 11, 2007, 05:38:00 am
check with the lakotas to see if he is real

http://www.lakotamall.com/oglalasiouxtribe/contact_info.htm

:)
Title: Re: Jimmy La Vallee & Spiritual Warrior Vision
Post by: PB on June 18, 2007, 02:44:28 am
Educatedindian,

While I appreciate your organization’s efforts to protect the public from artificial (and sometimes dangerous) “healers???, your speculations about Jim La Vallee are not accurate.  I write this with all due respect for your important work.  I do hope you will reconsider your suspicions of Mr. La Vallee after you have read my account of the help he has done for my family and me.

Because I am part of the medical community myself,  I would not settle for anything less than a professional for my own personal therapy.  Although I am successful at my career, and my patients rely on my expertise, I myself am diagnosed with PTSD, which on occasion distracts me from my work, or interferes with my family life.  For years, I sought out counselors, social workers and even clergy to help me overcome these issues, but I only encountered “quick-fix??? remedies, and psychiatric gimmicks.  Most of these over-educated and super-qualified people were younger than myself, and not at all wise about the realities of the world.  I spent a fortune and so much time looking for peace of mind, and had essentially given up, until I learned about the helping and healing methods of the Circle of Life Medicine Way, as taught by Mr. La Vallee.

As an Experiential Psychodramatist, La Vallee’s approach to mental health is grounded in Sioux tradition, but carries with it much contemporary psychology as well.  The balance of these two different but complimentary views is outstanding ... and effective.  The Circle of Life Medicine Way is not for the faint of heart; it mandates incredible courage and honesty.  If you as the patient lack either of these, La Vallee identifies it immediately and very bluntly redirects you to your own individual strength and truth.  If you are looking for a mystic guru or someone to hold you hand, you will not like this man’s style.  But if you truly want solutions, if you want to understand why you think/feel/act in a certain negative way, and if you want to find your own individual path toward a peaceful life, Jim La Vallee’s program may be your answer.  It certainly was mine.

My history also involved a brief affiliation with an abusive religious group.  I can attribute my recovery from this group to the guidance of Jim La Vallee.  He made me aware of my own strengths and power as a Native American, and helped me to see the uselessness of strategies such as Positive Thinking and NLP. He showed me how these are NOT tools for healing.  You were mistaken in what you posted about his views of NLP.  If you read his website in depth, you will see that he stated he was exposed to NLP as one of many methods, but not that he endorses this.  Mr. La Vallee stands for self realization, the opposite of a cult mindset.  Also he does not seek personal followers or in any way strive to develop his own cult. 

Far from “Pop??? psychiatry, as you suggested in your post, LaVallee’s guidance has resulted in genuine and lasting mental health for me, so that I can now provide better care to those who look to me for help - my family and my patients.  And no, I am not a suburbanite (as you humorously wrote); I live in a rural mountainous area, where the majority of my patients are tribal, like myself.

I want to add that you are correct in your report that Jim LaVallee charges a fee for his services.  All of my previous therapists charged too.  If he did not require payment, I would question the legitimacy of his practice.  Of course, my own medical practice bills my patients, as do all of my medical colleagues here in Montana.  Likewise, the credentialed professionals at the Onsite facility, which Jim refers to frequently, do also charge a fee.  You also mention Jim’s Pipe Ceremonies.  I have not participated in any of these, because they occur outside of his psychotherapy practice. 

Educatedindian, I too am an advocate for the people, like yourself.  In this capacity, I strongly suggest that you read through La Vallee’s program material completely and then set up a face-to-face meeting with him.  I am sure that if and when you do this, you will revisit your assumptions and negative conjectures, and you will tell your readers how Jim has helped even you ... because he will.  He helped me, and countless others.  I live better today with my tribe and with my own teachings because of this.

As another educated Indian, I implore you to consider the harm that you may be causing by not thoroughly investigating those on whom you report.  There are people who would benefit, like I did, from the Circle of Life Medicine Way, but who now will reject this opportunity for wholeness, because of the fear you have caused.  I feel that I must set the record straight here and now.  I also caution you that such inaccurate public statements may eventually jeopardize your own important work, because sooner or later you could be sued for slander - regardless of your true intent.  We professionals must behave as professionals, ethically and legally.

In order to authenticate your research into fraudulent healers and so-called shaman, I respectfully ask that you retract your publicized skepticism about Mr. La Vallee.  I do not know the others about whom you write, but I can assure you and your readers, that Jim La Vallee is “the real thing???.  Please be aware that many people across the US and Canada hold this man in high regard.  Thank you for posting my record of PERSONAL EXPERIENCE with this true “healer???.   

 
       
Title: Re: Jimmy La Vallee & Spiritual Warrior Vision
Post by: coffee_drinker on June 18, 2007, 05:33:59 am
I may receive a lot of criticizing for what I about to write. Many years ago I knew this young native girl that had been through a very tramatic experience.  It affected her where she was unable to function and spent several months in bed only to leave to use a restroom. Her family doctor would go to her home to treat her due to the fact she was unable to leave her home and had lost so much weight, the doctor feared she was going to die from malnutrition.
Her family sent her to one head doctor after another, in and out of hospitals, medicated her heavily. But she was not responding to their treatments.
Her family was at her bedside constantly praying for her recovery, but still she showed no improvement.  Then one of her doctors had just accepted a new counselor who happened to be Navaho from N.M. So the doctor assigned the counselor to her.
After having a session with her, the counselor took a different approach than the normal text book treatment. He used nature elements in their sesions.
It did not take her long to began to overcome her trauma and shortly after the doctors took her off all medications.
Seeing this for myself, I have learned to appreciate that sometimes there is a need especially for native people that require a different approach other than the normal textbook style remedies used by doctors. Too many are quick to over medicate their patients, all this does is put a band aid on the bullet hole, and it does not heal.
If there are native therapist that have found ways within their communities to help those that are suffering, I can only see good coming from it.

Title: Re: Jimmy La Vallee & Spiritual Warrior Vision
Post by: Moma_porcupine on June 18, 2007, 04:33:32 pm
PB , I can't speak for educatedindian about this situation specifically , but I do see something in the general principals that it appears your personal feelings might have stoped you from seing .

If you are a medical professional you will understand that it is important that medical doctors are trained by recognized specialists and contine to be overseen and accountable to this board of specialists . If a person has a complaint , who would they go to ? If there begins to be a number of complaints , who is there who will hear this and keep track . Who is there who would intervene if some clients were not being helped but harmed ?

Does your friends webpage have links to a recognized and trusted community of practioners that could help people with these questions? 

Surely you don't imagine an anonymus thumbs up on a message board is sufficent for someone to be considered a qualified medical doctor nurse or therapist  ?

What Coffee drinker is saying about traditional healing is true , but these healers are all trained and supervised by people recognized as knowledgeable within a Native community .

Most of what gets posted here is comments on what people have posted about themselves in cyberspace . If someone is advertising
they are qualified to do things, but there is no way of verifying this , I don't see anything defamatory with posting what people advertise about themselves in "Research Needed" , and mentioning what raised some questions .

If a person claiming to be a Native healer is recognized by a Native community , and what they were advertising is acceptable within the standards of that community , being doubted or criticised by strangers in cyberspace , would be easily brushed off as meaningless words from stupid people who didn't know what they are talking about . Any unfounded concerns expressed in NAFPS are not likely to do even minimul damage to people who are who they say they are , and are doing good work . On the other hand , encouraging people do be cautious and ask questions probably does a lot of good.  If someone is trustworthy , asking questions will turn up good things and benifit their reputation , not harm it  . 
Title: Re: Jimmy La Vallee & Spiritual Warrior Vision
Post by: Moma_porcupine on June 18, 2007, 09:32:52 pm
I found the webpage which lists this persons training and qualifications. He also offers to provide contacts for people who need them , which is a lot more responsible than a lot of the people who get posted in research needed . It looks like his credentials and training would be easy to verify , though I don't have enough knowledge to comment on any of these approaches to healing . Sorry I didn't find this before I asked if these links existed, in my earlier post .

http://www.spirit-warrior.ca/history.shtml (http://www.spirit-warrior.ca/history.shtml)

Quote
Education / Training
 
1986 - University of Manitoba - Special Pre-Med Studies
 
Experiential Psychotherapy Training
Onsite Training and Consulting  –
Cumberland Furnace, Tennessee, US

 
1998 April – Certificate   30 Credit Hours

1996 February – Certificate  29 Credit Hours

1995 March – Certificate  30.5 Credit Hours

1994 January – Certificate   30.5 Credit Hours

1994 December – Certificate 10 Credit Hours

 
Professional Counsellor Certificate Training
May 2000 – Anger / Rage Dynamics Education Training -  19.5 Credit Hours
 
Psychodrama Training*

1997 October - Certificate   36 Credit Hours

2000 April - Academy of Psychodrama and Therapy Certificate     18 Credit Hours

 Family Therapy Training*Satir Institute – Winnipeg, Manitoba             

1996 - September - Satir Professional Development Certificate  33 Credit Hours
 

Native Cultural Training* - Four Worlds International Institute - Lethbridge, Alberta

1995 April - Training For Trainers – Counseling Certificate             80 Credit Hours

1996 April - Training For Trainers - Holistic Healing Certificate      80 Credit Hours

 
Codependency Treatment & Training* - Rapid City, South Dakota, USA

1993 - September - Certificate

Hope Lodge / Sioux Sanitarium

 1992 - History of Healer - Rebuilding Relationships Training* - Minneapolis Minnesota

NANACOA - 4th Annual Conference – Healing Certificate*
 
12 Steps  Model Based Therapy - Tucson, Arizona, USA

1995 - September  – 29 days Experience with  12 Step Treatment*

Sierra Tucson Treatment Center, Tucson, Arizona


Transformational Personal Development Workshops

2005 - November  8 - 12  - Transcending the Seduction of Adictions -

 Kelly Tobey Workshops, Winnipeg, Manitoba
2006 - January 22  - Professional Development Training -
   Kelly Tobey Workshops - Calgary, Alberta

 
Workshops & Presentations
August 2000 - Aboriginal Healing Foundation


Presentation document on Council, Community and Individual Healing the Residential Schools Syndrome
1999 August - Presenter – “Spiritual Warrior Vision???

First People of the Americas Gathering

San Juan, Puerto Rico
 

1996 March – Workshop Presenter - “The Spiritual Warrior Vision – My Journey???

5th Native Men's Wellness - University of Oklahoma

Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA

Specialized Training

1990 - September – Certificate - ESI - Executive Security International,

Executive / Corporate / Personal Protection and Security System Specialist. Aspen, Colorado, USA*

1987 - Native Multi-Media – Television Host / Broadcaster / Reporter Training - Full Circle - Native News, Stories, Issues
and Research.

 *Certicates available should you need to see them... also contacts provided.
Title: Re: Jimmy La Vallee & Spiritual Warrior Vision
Post by: coffee_drinker on June 19, 2007, 03:17:37 pm
Which brings me to my point. Those in the medical  profession including my mother in law that is a retired doctor, did not list her qualifications in her office. If people put as much emphasis on researching someone like Mr. La Valle, into looking into their own family physicians they might be quiet surprised on what they might find out.
To say


Surely you don't imagine an anonymus thumbs up on a message board is sufficent for someone to be considered a qualified medical doctor nurse or therapist  ?
 Any unfounded concerns expressed in NAFPS are not likely to do even minimul damage to people who are who they say they are , and are doing good work . On the other hand , encouraging people do be cautious and ask questions probably does a lot of good.  If someone is trustworthy , asking questions will turn up good things and benifit their reputation , not harm it  . 

In fact most peole do walk into a doctor's office without having any knowledge of their creditials, unaware how many received their degrees in foreign countries where the guidelines are much more flexible, many barely passing their exams, and then a course there are the medical malpractice suits.
Many doctors would be out of practice from lack of patients if they were all put under a microscope and researched, to say that "unfounded concerns expressed in nafps are not likely to do even minimul damage" is a very unrealistic view.  This view in the medical profession would do much damage to those that practice text book medicine.
I haven't ever walked into a hospital seeing a message board up with a thumbs up or down for all their doctors on staff. In fact they do the opposite. Hospitals are well known for covering up for their quack doctors. Walk into a V.A. hospital that is overseen by our government, they are some of the worse in the country.
I myself do not know Mr. La Valle, however I do believe in this case it is in my opinion some very over zealous reactions to someone who is not  #1) Selling ceremonies: #2) Does not claim to be a medicine man for sale: #3) Works in the field of psychology helping people. I don't understand why this would even be in this group researched to begin with.
Title: Re: Jimmy La Vallee & Spiritual Warrior Vision
Post by: Moma_porcupine on June 19, 2007, 03:33:36 pm
Hi Coffee drinker
Actually , I mostly agree with you - though more skeptical inquirey about medical doctors and pharmacuticals would probably also be a good thing . yes there are a lot of crappy doctors out here who make people sicker , and accepting any healer without making inquiries into their training and reputation is probably not a good idea . 

A bit more research . I hadn't actually read through all this until PB suggested that educatedindian should retract his publicized skeptism . Which got me curious ;

From Mr La Vallee's webpage which educatedindian provides a link to ;

Quote
"Since that first day of true deep change in 1992, I have done more than 300 days of deep, practical experiential group treatment. Prior to that day, I had 3 solid years of getting support through Adult Children Support groups, as well as, Family Violence  Prevention training, 3 years of individual therapy and good number of those weekend training workshops, some of which where  those "safe-comfort-zone-feel-good-positive-thinking-new-age-spiritual-orgasmic" weekend information-stress-releasing workshops.  I also do some of those tell-me-what-to-do one-on-one counseling sessions.  I spent hundreds of training hours and  to changing trained and learned and healed for  and I have had over 600 hours of training."

So 600 hours of training would be about 5 months of training all together .

To put these credentials in context ;

http://www.aboutpsychotherapy.com/Tcredentials.htm (http://www.aboutpsychotherapy.com/Tcredentials.htm)

Quote
The term "psychotherapist" is unlicensed; anyone -- and I mean anyone -- can call himself a psychotherapist. The same applies to the term "therapist". "Psychologist", "psychiatrist", and "certified social worker", on the other hand, require some kind of licensure. The practitioner cannot call himself by these titles unless he has met certain state and national requirements.

http://healthyplace.healthology.com/mental-health/article1000.htm (http://healthyplace.healthology.com/mental-health/article1000.htm)

Quote
What Kind of Training do Psychotherapists Have?

Page 2
Psychotherapist is a generic term describing anyone who practices psychotherapy. There are several different academic degrees that allow people to become psychotherapists.

Psychologists' training includes an average of five to seven years of graduate training (including a one-year, full-time internship), during which they develop expertise in psychotherapy and in personality and diagnostic assessment.


(Continued ... )

Quote
Social workers typically receive about two years of graduate training in mental health and a Master's degree. Social workers who are psychotherapists must have a LCSW (Licensed Clinical Social Worker) degree. This degree means they have received more than 3,000 hours of psychotherapy training and have passed a licensing exam.

Page 3
Quote
You should also be aware that in some states, it is legal for anyone to call him or herself a psychotherapist without having training or a license in one of the accepted fields. Before you start to work with a therapist, find out what degree he or she has and whether it is from an accredited institution. To verify that a therapist's license is up-to-date and in good standing, consult the state board that oversees licenses of mental health practitioners.

Looking at the onsite EXPERIENTIAL THERAPY INSTITUTE that Mr LaVallee's site links to , it seems this training is to supplement the skills of people who are already working as healers or psychotherapists .

Mr LaVallee may be working with his personal vision and training through traditional Elders to be an effective healer , but I am not sure the credentials and training Mr LaVallee mentions,  would necessarily qualify a person in the eyes of the accredited , mainstream non native psychological community .

www.heyokamagazine.com/HEYOKA.8.Jaye.A.LaVallee.htm (http://www.heyokamagazine.com/HEYOKA.8.Jaye.A.LaVallee.htm)
 
I see that Mr LaVallee did an interview for the Heyoka magazine . Reading through this interview , personally , I had a positive impression . It sounded like Mr LaValle is someone who is more focused on solving the problems around him , than on himself, and what he does say about himself is just his story of finding his way through his own pain  . I didn't see anything that seemed like the obvious bragging and exibitionism that is so often a warning sign . I also didn't see any sign of Mr LaVallee selling ceremonies or even including them as a part of what he does for a job.   

Mr LaVallee
Quote
I do not do ceremony with most of the people I work with, I usually pray before hand or after. For sure, I pray for my own ability to keep walking my talk.

I especially liked this ;

Quote
JL: What are the signs that people can look out for to know whether someone is a phony medicine man or not?  And if they discover one what can they do about it?

(begins ... )

Quote
When it comes to medicine people, it is not always easy to see if they are true or not, or well or not. It takes you to look, listen and feel. Know your boundaries and know our true medicine People are intelligent, caring, just, kind, and morale… and they do not lie, sexualize, or rip off. When seeking a medicine person, it is somewhat the same if you were looking for a therapist… you ask around from other people that you know.  Ask questions.

Ask questions about their “walking the talk??? and about who and how they learned from. You keep reference to what others say
as well.  Pay attention to their mannerisms. Note how they take to questions you ask and how they react. Are they kind? Are they considerate? Are they able to understand and speak about your fears, worries, trust concerns, etc?  Do you feel comfortable? What does your “gut??? say? Just note their eyes… the windows to the true heart.

Be aware that if you go to see a medicine person, you have normal human rights. Know that you can ask if they still “drink or drug??? or be aware that if they are predatorial sexually and they “come onto you??? sexual. Be respectful and honorable. Phony medicine people are all around and when it comes to exposing them be aware that not all other people will agree with you, so don’t take it to heart. Just move on and talk about.

Let other people know if you’ve had a bad experience with a phony medicine person, so they won’t do the same.
-----
( my bold )
Mr LaVallee may be a very effective healer - and I haven't seen anything that would make me doubt this - , except it isn't clear what accredited psychological organization or First Nations organization would be overseeing him , and intervening if something went off the rails . Which can be a problem .

Mr LaVallee's own recommendation that people ask questions is probably a good one .     :)
Title: Re: Jimmy La Vallee & Spiritual Warrior Vision
Post by: educatedindian on June 19, 2007, 08:29:54 pm
Hi PB, and welcome,
If you take a look around the site, you'll see that the subject of integrating actual Native healing traditions (as opposed to the many frauds we usually look at) has come up a lot of times before.

I think all of us who've talked about in here (including me) have said that western medicine badly needs to learn from Native traditions. There are huge flaws in the way many university trained doctors, institutions, and people in the psych professions treat Native patients, and there are many non-Natives who could benefit from actual (again, not the many frauds that are out there) indigenous healing.

But there's also a huge problem with frauds trying to infiltrate western medicine training programs to try and gain academic acceptance of their exploitation. People like Mehl Madrona for example.

I did say that I didn't see any sign of La Vallee selling ceremony. But I do see plenty of things wrong with his approach. He's marketing himself almost entirely to whites, not Natives, as I said in the first post. And he's doing that partly with an appeal to "pity this poor NDN" and partly by exagerrating his credentials. Like Moma P points out, he's mostly been trained at quick seminars, sometimes a weekend or day in length. I don't see anything he's done that is longer than a month. PLus the "assistant to Phil Fontaine" bit, when he worked security.

If he did help you and another person, I'm glad. This thread is under Research Needed for a reason, and your account helps us figure out what to think about him. But no, I don't see how shutting down a simple looking for facts helps anyone.

I should also mention to everyone that part of what got me curious was the fact that La Vallee contacted one of our NAFPS members out of the blue and offered to "help", without knowing anything about this person, who happens to be white and European. So it seems to confirm that La Vallee is pitching his claims of being able to heal at white Europeans, at least in this instance.

And the fact that Lekay endorses him and promotes him? His record so far is batting 0.00. Lekay's promoted one exploiter after another. So far, I'm not sure if La Vallee is one. Even the disclaimer about ceremony sellers, while good advice, doesn't automatically clear him, because we've seen ceremony sellers even include *our* warnings before.
Title: Re: Jimmy La Vallee & Spiritual Warrior Vision
Post by: coffee_drinker on June 19, 2007, 08:49:15 pm
I would like to break this down in layman's terms if I may. Correct me if I am wrong here. please

Quote from posting by Educatedindian
"What he sells:

"Daily Physical Health, Nutrition, and Fitness -This implies healthy minds needs healthy bodies, and how do we achieve that? through balanced foods we eat, fitness is used also to achieve healthy minds, that's why many corporations have work out gyms for their employees, helps keep the stress levels down
Nutrition and Weight-management Seminars - Part of this also applies from number 1, with the exception many people suffering from depression to name one are either over weight or under weight.
Detoxification and Cleansing Teachings - This one also self expl. many self medicate, whether it be drugs or alcohol. What do we call rehabs? Detox units
Emotional Education / Well-Being and Capacity Building Sessions - I believe this one for those that don't having coping skills, low self esteem, etc, etc.
Self-defense, Personal, Emotional, Empowerment Development.  -Well if I was an abused wife, you bet I would like to learn self defense, this one is about mental and physical survival in abusive relationships.
Mentoring and Healthy Helping - Those that are struggling in a mental capacity, whether it be from depression, grief, to name a couple, very important to have a support system
Fun, Play, Empowering Team Assessment and Development -  Some people don't know how to relax, what better way than to get involved in sports, games, letting their hair down and enjoying themselves. 
Personal Resource Maintenance and Management Development"-  Well common sense tells me this is how to maintain a healthy lifestyle, which would include a balanced diet, exercise, good support system including family and friends, I am sure this would also include outside resources such as housing for woman with children that have been in abusive relationships, jobs, getting involved in community sponsored activities, such as children's groups, volunteer work for the needy, actually the list is endless.

What is in here that is so alarming? I'm lost on this one. Can't seem to understand what the point is. No different than all the psychiatrist programs that are offered all across this country. Why not make a list and post all of them. Or is it because this one happens to be Native?  Would he be listed if he was Swede, German, Italian, W, Indian, to name a few.Just wondering.
Ok, I am now looking at a new post, I have read the site, no where did I see "whites only" I believe it would appeal to all races, creeds and religions.
I have seen advertisements for the FBI  Looking for new agents and the front man on the ad is native, This is in "Native People" magazine, published by the Smithsonian.  But that does not stop me from reading it.  If  I walk into a bar to buy a coke does that make me an alcoholic ?
Still not understanding the whole point here. Sorry folks looks like a witch hunt going on with this one from where I'm sitting.
Some ones approach does not make them guilty of fraud.

I do not claim to be an expert in the field of psych. I am a retired viet nam vet that trained in a spec ops. I was assigned to some of the worst criminals  when Saigon fell, some of my favs saigon cowboys and the blackmarket people,   from there I was assigned into Europe training in profiling. I spent many years throughout Europe assigned to terrorist groups in the mid to late 70's. What my field of work was to read letters and break down profiling the writer.  How people write, tells a great deal about themselves. And with that I will speak no more on the subject.   After 30 years of this it becomes second nature to figure what's behind the story. That is how I have come to the conclusions that I have concernng this post.


 
[/quote]
Title: Re: Jimmy La Vallee & Spiritual Warrior Vision
Post by: coffee_drinker on June 20, 2007, 03:16:48 am
Call me the devil's advocate, but this is a forum to prove or disprove one's validation.



I should also mention to everyone that part of what got me curious was the fact that La Vallee contacted one of our NAFPS members out of the blue and offered to "help", without knowing anything about this person, who happens to be white and European. So it seems to confirm that La Vallee is pitching his claims of being able to heal at white Europeans, at least in this instance.



I am  researching this with all my resources, and I have been in contact with someone tonight that is not white nor European, that Mr. Valle has been in contact with speaking about personal issues. So I don't know where this statement would fit into the agenda of pitching claims to healing all white europeans.  I am the kind of person that needs that actual proof, not hearsay of what may be.
I can go through this forum and see proof of frauds, but I am only reading the what if's in this case.
This reminds of some of my early training where we did profiling on people that drove red cars.  We were trained that if a person drove a red car they were more likely to speed. That is not a fact, only a profiling of a person that drives a red car.  And being a broken record that I am, that is all I see with this one.
Title: Re: Jimmy La Vallee & Spiritual Warrior Vision
Post by: Moma_porcupine on June 20, 2007, 03:37:37 am
 Coffe Drinker Reply #10
Quote
Still not understanding the whole point here. Sorry folks looks like a witch hunt going on with this one from where I'm sitting. Some ones approach does not make them guilty of fraud.

Coffee drinker ,  the words " guilty of fraud " are in your own imagination . If you look at the top of the "Research needed" page , you will see a post , "People who post in NAFPS" .

Hey ...thats us ...   ;D We are posted in NAFPS, under "Research Needed" !

I see this website as being about encouraging people to think and ask questions. Research needed means research needed .
 
If people advertise themselves to the public they should expect some public scrutiny .

From the John Lekay Heyoka interview ;
Quote
In my “healing / helping??? work with others, I follow the Circle Of Life Medicine Way, which came to me in vision. This is
about the Sacred Pipe and the Sacred Hoop and connectedness.

 If you read through the link below you will see that a lot of what Mr LaValleee is doing involves counciling based on a way that he says came to him in a vision - presumably combined what he learned from the psycotherapy training he recieved .

http:www.spirit-warrior.ca/info.shtml (http://http:www.spirit-warrior.ca/info.shtml)

Quote
Individuals, Groups, Companies, and Communities can benefit from the trainings offered. My trainings are based in the Circle
Of Life Medicine Way
which is about living consciously aware using healthy holistic healing aspects:

Quote
Participants in in my programs will:                             

    * Develop greater Emotional Capacity
    * Clarify and Distinguish basic emotions and senses and states of being
    * Re-Establish and clarify personal and professional boundaries
    * Learn essential relationship skills
    * Distinguish patterns of living and resolve them
    * Clarify relationship issues, choices, responsibilities and patterns
    * Broaden perspective on Healthy and Toxic people & relationships
    * Learn positive feedback without attacking or manipulating or shaming
    * Develop effective healthy coping skills beyond denying your inner self
    * Achieve communication skills and recognize "old traps"
    * Develop common language of expressing emotions and feelings
    * Create safe environment for healthy expression of distorted emotions
    * Develop community contacts and bring about openness to recovery

So, maybe this healing program based on a vision is effective or maybe it isn't . There are a lot of people who don't know better who will think Native wisdom is enough to supplement a modest amount of training in physcotherapy . Sometimes it is and sometimes it isn't . But there is many people with a bit of training mixed with a a bit of tradition and a vision and a workshop or self help experience to sell , who are just doing there own thing, whatever that might be, and for people to stay healthy , some caution is necessary .

As Mr LaVallee says himself . Research is needed .

If you feel like starting a thread to discuss what you think is a problem , and what you think isn't a problem , and what you think maybe a problem , and all the reasons why , it would probably be an interesting discussion . There is definently some gray areas , and different opinions .
Title: Re: Jimmy La Vallee & Spiritual Warrior Vision
Post by: coffee_drinker on June 20, 2007, 11:34:12 am
Being the gentleman I am. I thought it would be best to allow Ms. Porcupine to finish off the night with the last post.
 I have read through your post and have given it much consideration to what you have said.
Perhaps there is a misunderstanding taking place, perhaps it is the uncle sam in me coming out.
My understanding of researching to this point has been based on gathering factual information and once that is completed a report is submitted.
That is how I was trained to research
I will gather information from reliable sources and submit to the board findings on on the creditials in the clinical fiels of psychology, based here in our country.

To base research on opinions in not a realiable way of gathering facts.
Please pardon me if you find this offensive but yes mam I do know how to read, and based on that since we are under the topic of research that is how I have based my post, not with the presumptions of my imagination suggesting this forum has found Mr. La Valle guilty of fraud. That was taken out of context.

To discuss this subject on clinical creditials, would it not be common sense to have one that is schooled in the field, to make the assessments?  That is where you have missed my point. Or did you understand it and that is why you suggested perhaps I should start a new thread? In doing that it would serve no purpose to this discussion, and taking a passive/ aggressive approach by suggesting that I start a new thread has no bearing on what is being researched.
 But then I read " I see this website as being about encouraging people to think and ask questions."  Which is exactly what I have been doing.  If that is how you feel about this website, then why would you suggest I go off to another thread?  I am asking questions, maybe they are not the ones you may want to hear, but they are very legit, and should be considered.
 
If this is a research topic, is that not what we should be doing?  And not making assumptions nor taking a sentence here and there and read into perhaps something that doesn't even exist.
As I stated I will research, I would like to know if anyone has contacted Mr.Fontaine, and if so what were their findings?  I will contact him if it has not been done by anyone else.

But at this point I have seen nothing at all that would suggest this should be discussed on this forum, except perhaps guilt through association.
 

 

Title: Re: Jimmy La Vallee & Spiritual Warrior Vision
Post by: Moma_porcupine on June 20, 2007, 01:20:44 pm
Coffee Drinker

I'm not uncomfortable with reasonable questions - My suggestion to start another thread is because some of the explainations of what is a concern are based on abuses that may have nothing to do with Mr La Vallee , but some people may not understand that , and may unfairly think it is Mr LaVallee we are discussing . 

I don't think I took your comment out of context.

it seems you missed my central point , which is ;

Research Needed means we don't have all the facts but we do have questions

and

There are a lot of people who don't know better who will think Native wisdom is enough to supplement a modest amount of
training in physcotherapy .
The question isn't about the quality of the psychotherapy,  but more about the "Native Wisdom" which Mr LaVallee is using as a main advertising point .

I know many Native people who work other Native people in various fields of social work / psyhcotherapy , some with the same amount of pshycotheraputic training as Mr Lavallee, and some of these people are very effective . I have never known any of these people to advertise ,  especially to put so much emphasis on their Native culture in their advertisements , as the Native community they mainly work within , knows that already . 

As a general principal , I don't agree with candy coating a modest training in phsychotherapy in something resembling  Native ways to make it more palatable to non natives . Not say that is happening here,  but it does happen a lot , and in my opinion people need to be cautious of anyone advertising an Indianized version of psychotherapy  .
Title: Re: Jimmy La Vallee & Spiritual Warrior Vision
Post by: educatedindian on June 21, 2007, 03:33:38 am
I know some people in psych from the cult recovery groups. I'll ask their professional opinion of him. (And no, I'm not implying he's involved in any cults.)

One thing that has been left out by both our new member and coffee, La Vallee's use of the very dangerous Nuage technique, Neuro Linguistic Programming.

A comment made by a psychologist over at Freedom of Mind about NLP:

"NLP is particularly bad for people because it does more of the same
thing cults do to people -- the techniques are manipulative rather
than helping the person to learn to be more conscious, critical, and
mindful of their thought processes. People who have been in cults
have gotten used to quick fixes offering easy black and white answers
and a superficial emotional buzz and NLP is seductive because it
provides more of that. While some NLP people have good intentions and
are not necessarily cult leaders, the techniques they are using are
based on promotional hype rather than any kind of substantive
evidence that they really help people. When I trained in NLP several
of the people in the trainings I encountered were active cult members
and people offering these trainings don't seem to care who signs up
and will take pretty much anyone as long as they're not overtly
disruptive to the class. The training I took was with one of the
better NLP people who is not a cult leader so I am not describing a
worst case scenario, yet there was still no screening and after the
training, there would be nothing to stop these unqualified people
(most of whom had no formal mental health credentials) from hanging
out a shingle and practicing and many of them do.

What they mainly do is produce the same kind of "high" people get
from cultic practices and some of the people who do NLP would fall
into the same category of what you describe about your abusive
friend. There are cult leaders out there who are using NLP techniques
and some of the people marketing NLP have become cult leaders who
take advantage of their followers while at the same time brazenly
maintaining that NLP is not a cult. One example is people using NLP
technques to take advantage of people sexually and financially as
many cult leaders do. I would advise people to stay away from all NLP
because even when it is not run by a cult leader, at best it is an
overly-hyped new age quick fix that makes claims without evidence to
support them."

Background article:

http://skepdic.com/neurolin.html

...Neuro-linguistic Programming (NLP) is one of many New Age Large Group Awareness Training programs. NLP is a competitor with Landmark Forum, Tony Robbins, and legions of other enterprises which, like the Sophists of ancient Greece, travel from town to town to teach their wisdom for a fee. Robbins is probably the most successful "graduate" of NLP. He started his own empire after transforming from a self-described "fat slob" to a firewalker to (in his own words) "the nation's foremost authority on the psychology of peak performance and personal, professional and organizational turnaround." The founders of NLP, Richard Bandler and John Grinder, might disagree....

NLP was begun in the mid-seventies by a linguist (Grinder) and a mathematician (Bandler) who had strong interests in (a) successful people, (b) psychology, (c) language and (d) computer programming.... NLP claims to help people change by teaching them to program their brains. We were given brains, we are told, but no instruction manual. NLP offers you a user-manual for the brain. The brain-manual seems to be a metaphor for NLP training, which is sometimes referred to as "software for the brain." Furthermore, NLP, consciously or unconsciously, relies heavily upon (1) the notion of the unconscious mind as constantly influencing conscious thought and action; (2) metaphorical behavior and speech, especially building upon the methods used in Freud's Interpretation of Dreams; and (3) hypnotherapy as developed by Milton Erickson. NLP is also heavily influenced by the work of Gregory Bateson and Noam Chomsky.

One common thread in NLP is the emphasis on teaching a variety of communication and persuasion skills, and using self-hypnosis to motivate and change oneself. Most NLP practitioners advertising on the WWW make grand claims about being able to help just about anybody become just about anything. The following is typical:

NLP can enhance all aspects of your life by improving your relationships with loved ones, learning to teach effectively, gaining a stronger sense of self-esteem, greater motivation, better understanding of communication, enhancing your business or career... and an enormous amount of other things which involve your brain. (from the now defunct http://www.nlpinfo.com/intro/txintro.shtml archived here)

Some advocates claim that they can teach an infallible method of telling when a person is lying, but others recognize that this is not possible. Some claim that people fail only because their teachers have not communicated with them in the right "language". One NLP guru, Dale Kirby, informs us that one of the presuppositions of NLP is "No one is wrong or broken."

....Another NLP presupposition which is false is "If someone can do something, anyone can learn it." This comes from people who claim they understand the brain and can help you reprogram yours. They want you to think that the only thing that separates the average person from Einstein or Pavarotti or the World Champion Log Lifter is NLP.

NLP is said to be the study of the structure of subjective experience, but a great deal of attention seems to be paid to observing behavior and teaching people how to read "body language." ....much of what NLP is teaching is how to do cold reading. This is valuable, but an art not a science, and should be used with caution.

Finally, NLP claims that each of us has a Primary Representational System (PRS), a tendency to think in specific modes: visual, auditory, kinaesthetic, olfactory or gustatory. A person's PRS can be determined by words the person tends to use or by the direction of one's eye movements. Supposedly, a therapist will have a better rapport with a client if they have a matching PRS. None of this has been supported by the scientific literature.*

....We are told that Bandler took as his first models Virginia Satir ("The Mother of Family System Therapy"), Milton Erickson ("The Father of Modern Hypnotherapy") and Fritz Perls (early advocate of Gestalt Therapy) because they "had amazing results with their clients." ....someone who is not mentioned, but who certainly seems like the ideal model for NLP, is Werner Erhard. He started est a few miles north (in San Francisco) of Bandler and Grinder (in Santa Cruz) just a couple of years before the latter started their training business. Erhard seems to have set out to do just what Bandler and Grinder set out to do: help people transform themselves and make a good living doing it. NLP and est also have in common the fact that they are built up from a hodgepodge of sources in psychology, philosophy, and other disciplines. Both have been brilliantly marketed as offering the key to success, happiness, and fulfillment to anyone willing to pay the price of admission. Best of all: no one who pays his fees fails out of these schools!

....you can get 6 days of training for $1,800 at the door ($1,500 prepaid). What will you be trained in or for? Bandler has been learning about "the advancement of human evolution" and he will pass this on to you. For $1,500 you could have taken his 3-day seminar on Creativity Enhancement (where you could learn why it's not creative to rely on other people's ideas, except for Bandler's).

....What did Grinder and Bandler do that makes it impossible to continue doing psychology or therapy or semiotics or philosophy without accepting their ideas? Nothing.

Do people benefit from NLP?

While I do not doubt that many people benefit from NLP training sessions, there seem to be several false or questionable assumptions upon which NLP is based. Their beliefs about the unconscious mind, hypnosis and the ability to influence people by appealing directly to the subconscious mind are unsubstantiated. All the scientific evidence which exists on such things indicates that what NLP claims is not true. You cannot learn to "speak directly to the unconscious mind " as Erickson and NLP claim, except in the most obvious way of using the power of suggestion.

in conclusion

It seems that NLP develops models which can't be verified, from which it develops techniques which may have nothing to do with either the models or the sources of the models. NLP makes claims about thinking and perception which do not seem to be supported by neuroscience.

....how do you measure the claim "NLP works"? I don't know and I don't think NLPers know, either. Anecdotes and testimonials seem to be the main measuring devices. Unfortunately, such a measurement may reveal only how well the trainers teach their clients to persuade others to enroll in more training sessions.


further reading

reader comments

The Bandler Method by Frank Clancy & Heidi Yorkshire (A 1989 article from Mother Jones magazine that accuses Bandler of alcohol and drug addiction, and argues he was guilty of the murder he was charged with in 1986.
Title: Re: Jimmy La Vallee & Spiritual Warrior Vision
Post by: weheli on June 22, 2007, 12:37:24 am
Osiyo,
With all do respect to all on this forum and the fact I have been a poster and reasearcher on this forum for a while, what I am about to express I hope will be left in tact. This is my opinion and after much prayer and searching of my Spirit and MY Peples Way I must now Speak.

I have been in the mental health field since I was 30, and am now retired, I have my degrees ect. and am very intuned with what Mr. La Vallee is talking about. I also know that having "Credentials" a good Therapist, Psyc, SW ect does not make. I read what MP posted as to Psycotherapist and have pasted here the whole article.
The term "psychotherapist" is unlicensed; anyone -- and I mean anyone -- can call himself a psychotherapist. The same applies to the term "therapist". "Psychologist", "psychiatrist", and "certified social worker", on the other hand, require some kind of licensure. The practitioner cannot call himself by these titles unless he has met certain state and national requirements. These are usually as follows, in descending order of what fees they usually charge.

Psychiatrist: graduation from medical school, and then graduation from a psychiatric residency program. Many psychiatrists are also "board certified", which requires them to take another competency. Bear in mind, here, that unless the residency specifically focuses on psychotherapy, a psychiatrist can conceivably have no training or experience in it! Most who practice psychotherapy, however, do pursue advanced training. The problem with that is that they very likely received such training at a psychoanalytic institute. Such places vary widely in quality, and they can be rather limited in their orientation. Among the practitioners discussed here, at present only psychiatrists can prescribe medication. There are rumblings in the field of certifying psychologists to do so, but don’t hold your breath.

Psychoanalyst: A psychoanalyst must complete training at an analytic institute. Sounds very advanced but there are some cautions. First, there are institutes and there are institutes. Second, some institutes accept candidates who have little or no prior background in the field. A few institutes will not even consider any applicant other than a medical doctor who, as discussed above, may have no background in psychology. Thus, the analyst’s only training may be in the institute’s possibly narrow view of the field.

Psychologist: Ph.D. psychologists have about 5 years of graduate training in psychology and usually an undergraduate psychology major as well. Psy.D. psychologists have almost as much training but with less emphasis on the scientific aspects of the field. In order to obtain the license as a "psychologist" most states require a further 1 or 2 years of post-graduate supervised experience in the field. Masters level psychologists are not addressed as "doctor" and have only about 2 years of graduate training.

During graduate training, students spend up to half their time in clinical settings -- mental health centers, psychiatric hospitals, schools, clinics -- and receive one-on-one supervision of their work. Bear in mind that a psychologist who studies rats in graduate school and never sees a human patient can sit for the licensing exam, call himself a psychologist, and set up a practice -- although I’ve never heard of one who did. The thing you may want to ask is whether your psychologist is a "clinical psychologist", meaning did he specialize in diagnosis and treatment of humans.

Social Worker, LCSW: This is a Licensed Clinical Social Worker. Usually 2 years of graduate training with an emphasis on psychotherapy, an internship also emphasizing psychotherapy, and a year or two of supervised post-graduate work before obtaining the license.

CSW/R - CSW with six years of supervised psychotherapy experience.

CSW/P - CSW with one year of supervised psychotherapy experience.

Social Worker, ACSW: Master’s degree in social work, which may or may not involve any training in psychotherapy or even in human behavior, followed by 2 years clinical experienced under the supervision of another ACSW.

CSW - Certified Social Worker: This title is limited to New York State and requires only the master’s degree, no supervision nor post-graduate clinical experience.
_______________________________________________________________________________________

 So as you have read many of these people have little to no experience working with Human Beings. I was in therapy in my younger years and all I ever got was a nod or "and how did that make you feel", how was I to know how to feel whatever :-\  I have walked down many roads, abusive chidhood in every way, battered wife, co-dependency ect. ect. and am totaly of the oppinion that to walk beside another to help them recover and HEAL, Mind,Body,Spirit, one must have walked that road themselves. Felt the Shame, worthlessness, terror ect. I have spent hours going over Mr. Lavelle's site and have found nothing thats even would need researching. ACOA, Adult Children of Alcoholics was a wonderful healing path and it came to almost a halt because the "professionals" said it was BS. Well it isn't and wasn't. I met Virginia Satir and all the ones at that time who was part of the new movement, Frogs into princesses was required reading. yes NLP was part of my training and it can be used in many ways if one chooses, I did not incorpriate it with my clients. Following is another take on NLP:
http://www.nlpschedule.com/resource.html#DLC

I also noted the "Vision" that Mr. Lallee is talking about is:  http://www.spirit-warrior.ca/guestbook.php . I have dreams, or visions if you will of what I would like to happen in the future. What is talked about here is just that.
Mr. La Vallee does have as a back up the:http://www.onsiteworkshops.com/

It was through my Cherokee Ceremonies and Traditions along with a Native friend who walked my path with me that TRUE holistic healing came about.
SO I ASK WHAT IS THIS THREAD ALL ABOUT??? ??? I believe hidden agendas are here, my opionion is that because Mr. Lavlle was interviewed by the Heyoka Magazine is the reason this thread is here! Are we going to take everyone to task that the Magazine has interviewd? Medicine people say leave it alone, if they are doing wrong it will come back to them. SO please leave it alone. Creator WILL take care of what needs to be taken care of, WE are NOT Creator.

After much Soul Searching and the Creator bringing to mind a very close friend of mine whom I consider a brother, Lakota, 10 year Sundancer, with certain rites, and how for no reason at all, was tore down and because of one person who spread untruths, his life has drastically changed.
I do not want to answer to Crteator for anything like that, hurting of others and perhaps thier lifley hood. In the Sacred Circle of life what you do wrong to others will come back. I have chosen to not take that chanace anymore. I have never met any of you face to face, how am I to trust what you say, what IF only part of what here is true and the rest all the right Way. DO WE REALLY KNOW???

This sight has brought me personally much sorrow in my heart, and to any I have hurt, with all do respect with humility and humbleness I ask forgiveness.

Spoken with respect to you all on this forum.                           Wado
                                                                                         Weheli
 

Title: Re: Jimmy La Vallee & Spiritual Warrior Vision
Post by: educatedindian on June 22, 2007, 12:54:12 am
Three pyschologists' opinions from Freedom of Mind:

1.
"It doesn't look like he's a psychologist at all. He calls himself
an "experiential psychotherapist". There's a big difference
between "psychotherapist" and "psychologist". Psychologists is
protected by licensure, but in many states anyone can call
themselves a "psychotherapist". It looks like all this person has
done is a bunch of "certification" trainings, which are basically
meaningless. Many of these sort of certification trainings are open
to virtually anyone.

Regardless of his licensure, however, from the looks of what he's
offering, he's practicing bogus therapies and should be avoided.
Unfortunately, licensure doesn't prohibit therapists from using just
about any therapy they want to (except in rare instances where a
therapy is banned in a particular state as rebirthing is in some
states)."

2.
"Your question about what all this means is very appropriate. From
reading what he's done, it looks like he has attended
several 'workshops' - most are open to whoever can pay
admission/attendance fee. As a 'professional credit certificate, it
generally only means that IF YOU ARE A PROFESSIONAL you can probably
list it as one of the on-going training credits you have to
accumulate to keep up your registration with whatever legislative
body you are accredited with. If you are not under such an
accreditation, it just means you attended the workshop.
Personally, I don't know the native accredited training or how it
works. The only accreditation I see in his list is that he was
accredited as a psychodramatist. Most such organizations do require a
counsellor to have professional training previously but I don't see
it in his list.
It also looks like he took a 12 step program himself, which would
suggest having fought his own addiction.
The list of practice hours is usually not something a trained
professional would list for anyone.
By the way - who knows what the 'pre-med' course was - did he get a
degree??? Doesn't look like it. (Not that degrees are everything)"

3.
"I’d say this guy could be real dangerous to anyone who may seek him out,
especially since many seeking such help are in a vulnerable position to start.

The only good thing about his web site is that it is one of the worse I have
ever seen. To keep it short –way too busy - just plain bad - It made my head
hurt after only a short amount of time – hopefully anyone seeking help will
take a close look at this site and realize this guy is just a amateur wantabee
and steer clear."
Title: Re: Jimmy La Vallee & Spiritual Warrior Vision
Post by: educatedindian on June 22, 2007, 01:12:54 am
Weheli, in answer to your concerns,

"I was in therapy in my younger years and all I ever got was a nod or "and how did that make you feel", how was I to know how to feel whatever"

A lot of people have been hurt by bad "therapy". That includes people posing as counselors and therapists who aren't.

"yes NLP was part of my training and it can be used in many ways if one chooses, I did not incorpriate it with my clients. Following is another take on NLP:
http://www.nlpschedule.com/resource.html#DLC"

A site advertising it? If you'd given us a site where people had studied it and found evidence it works, that might mean something.

"Mr. La Vallee does have as a back up the:http://www.onsiteworkshops.com/"

That site just hosts workshops, most of them dubious.

"SO I ASK WHAT IS THIS THREAD ALL ABOUT???  I believe hidden agendas are here, my opionion is that because Mr. Lavlle was interviewed by the Heyoka Magazine is the reason this thread is here! Are we going to take everyone to task that the Magazine has interviewd?"

Weheli, you know NAFPS very well. You know that when we find one fraud, many of the people they work with turn out to be frauds themselves.

You know very well, for example, that Charles Storm trained Harley Reagan, that Jamie Sams and Twyla Nitsh endorse each other, and dozens of other examples of frauds working closely, training each other, and promoting each other.

So why would you think this should be any different? Dupree is a pretty obvious teller or lies. Mala Pope abuses women. And Lekay has a perfect record so far of picking ONLY liars, deceivers, exploiters, and fringe characters.

If this had turned out differently, I'd be the first to say I was wrong. No one should be above asking questions about them. And as the last post shows, his "training" is worthless, perhaps even dangerous.

"Medicine people say leave it alone, if they are doing wrong it will come back to them. SO please leave it alone. Creator WILL take care of what needs to be taken care of, WE are NOT Creator."

ALL Medicine people? No, you know very well that MOST medicine people, HUNDREDS of them, are the first ones to stand up and say this is wrong and people need to speak out and end this lack of respect.

Creator also gave us minds and hearts that say we cannot stand by while people are being hurt.

Honestly, I don't think you would either. If you knew someone to be a fraud, and someone mentioned wanting to see him, I believe you would talk them out of it.

I've seen you in here for all these years, and I believe your good heart would tell you to do the right thing and speak up.

"After much Soul Searching and the Creator bringing to mind a very close friend of mine whom I consider a brother, Lakota, 10 year Sundancer, with certain rites, and how for no reason at all, was tore down and because of one person who spread untruths, his life has drastically changed.
I do not want to answer to Crteator for anything like that, hurting of others and perhaps thier lifley hood. In the Sacred Circle of life what you do wrong to others will come back."

We're not doing anything like that. We've told the truth. La Vallee has not. And Lekay is so far gone he can't tell the truth from lies.
Title: Re: Jimmy La Vallee & Spiritual Warrior Vision
Post by: coffee_drinker on June 22, 2007, 02:43:04 am
Weheli,
I am fairly new to the group here and still feeling my way around things. I have been spending many hours researching these last 2 days and will try to post my research of my findings.
I myself use different means other than sites to research, due to many errors that may be misleading.

I do understand what you are speaking of, I myself have seen someone close that also was falsely accused.  There is much truth in what you speak of when you do not know the person on a personal level, and it is quite common for many to make judgement calls based on what is floating out there in cyberspace. It reminds me of a game young ones play, where they sit in a circle and one will whisper something into the ear of one sitting next to them. By the time it gets back to the one that started the game, it is completely different than the original story.

As far as the researching of Mr. LaValle has anyone come across any information that he has studied or been associated with any known frauds?
I, myself am unsure of which direction to take with this research, don't know if it should be creditials, native background, personal background, or all I have listed. There are post that suggest one or the other, so that part I get a little on the confused side.

In your words you are expressing some very thoughtful insight to how you are seeing things, which I give you much credit. Many choose to shoot off the hip so to speak, and can do some pretty serious damage to another.
I will say this much, having some of the access which I am greatful for I have come across some pretty bizarre things that I have been taken back by.  The best judge is our conscience, so with that I have a great respect for you. My prayers are with you as you walk a good path
Title: Re: Jimmy La Vallee & Spiritual Warrior Vision
Post by: Moma_porcupine on June 22, 2007, 12:52:38 pm
Guys , as I see it , this is an Indian marketing Indian flavored psychotherapy. You just heard 3 proffesional opinions from within the psychotheraputic community that his psychotheraputic skills are marginal . That leaves "Indian flavored"

The website below talks about his healing work , and mentions working with children . This is clearly "Indian flavored"

http://ca.blog.360.yahoo.com/blog-BG6LhU8wcK_YWKCkR_c7T8zL26g-?cq=1 (http://ca.blog.360.yahoo.com/blog-BG6LhU8wcK_YWKCkR_c7T8zL26g-?cq=1)

Are you all thinking that anyone who goes to some alternative psychotherapy workshops can market physcotherapy , heavily mixed with with "Indian Wisdom " and that is Ok ? As long as they call themselves a therapist and not a medicine person ?

While that is not as disrepectful and degrading as marketing oneself as a medicine man , there would still be the problem of people getting hurt by incompetant people .

What Native community is Mr Lavalle connected with ?  With John Lakay he mostly speaks with some bitterness about the lateral violence in the Native community , and feeling alienated .

Does the Native community regard Mr lavallee as a competant helper ? Does he work with other Elders ? Does his traditional understanding compensate for his modest training in other areas ?

I agree about being careful about jumping to conclusions about someone from what you see on the internet , but when what you
feel concerned about is the persons own words on their own website , it isn't just gossip. Some of what is said on this webpage
did raise my concerns .

http://72.14.253.104/search?q=cache:MZ8OxVfBnE0J:www.spirit-warrior.ca/scenario.shtml+site:www.spirit-warrior.ca+%22Circle+of+Life+Medicine+Way
%22&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=4&gl=ca
 (http://72.14.253.104/search?q=cache:MZ8OxVfBnE0J:www.spirit-warrior.ca/scenario.shtml+site:www.spirit-warrior.ca+%22Circle+of+Life+Medicine+Way
%22&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=4&gl=ca)

Quote
I get more and more requests from people asking me to explain, deeper, more intricately...  more specifically about the process (what is it I actually do - the steps and movement - even the words   or wording I use) within this transformational work (process) that I assist people in doing. I am understanding  more about this great need most people have to ease their mistrust. Their deep need to get as much information and knowledge of  and about the methods and methods.

(con..)


Quote
For me it seems simple and easy to "talk" about it and to write about it because I have done so much of this deep already, that I think it just is easy as writing about it. I realize that it isn't even simple to explain..the more I speak about it to other people of various professions and expertise and lifestyle.

I see that there is a great need... to not only understand the issue of trust... and for the explaining of the process, sharing it, teaching it and accepting that it a spiritual process This is very difficult for those of us who have been victimized AND / OR those of us who have victimized and feel real untrusting, even shame-based amongst other dysfunctions.

The thing that put me on alert here , is that he is telling people who might not trust him , that not trusting people is a dysfunction .
People who have been abused often don't have a working crap detector because abusers seem normal to them . That is why people who have been abused as children often go on to be repeatedly abused as adults even when they could make choices to protect themselves . I really reallly disagree with telling people to ignore their inner signals that something is wrong . That is really dangerous .  Especially in the inner city .

He then proceeds to explain what he does ;

Quote
# Setting new points of reference to understand why and how present beliefs and thought processing are the way they are -
thinking, acting, and reacting...
# - Clarifying what abuse or neglect is within natural lving process
Within a natural living process?  Are thoise words even necessary or do they just sound good ?
# Setting up the means and parameters to explore present beliefs and faith.
# - Being able to keep acutely aware of the position and purpose the guide / helper at all times during the process is
paramount to trust.
# Know how and why the guide / helper is walking with you on your journey.
# - Ability to internalize trust... accept trust to enable the fullest empowerment so you are able to acknowledge your true
story, your journey.
# - Know what is going to happen and asking for complete clarification of outcome? For comlete safety.
# - Re-live or re-do with purpose for establishing clear - now and then, who and what... why and how discerning.
# Echo - Concretizing statements and states with purposeful centering communication.
# - Simplifying, clarifying, qualifying emotions and separating them from states of being or groups of emotions or pent-up
distorted overwhelming states of being. Sorting out.
# - Rating trust to foster inner knowing, wisdom and knowledge
# Clarify and qualify ones true essence for safety and personal identification - re-orientation to the time and place inthe
present.
---------------
I have a small amount of psychological understanding , and what Mr lavallee just said here doesn't make any sense to me . That he is saying a lot of other people don't understand what he is talking about, and mistrust him seems like I am not the only one to feel like this doesn't make a lot of sense . And it isn't because people were abused and have trust issues that what he is doing seems questionable . It is questionable .

I see Mr Lavalle looking for donations for a Circle of Life Medicine Way healing lodge rainbow tribe global community

http://72.14.253.104/search?q=cache:2ty6RVp9sqAJ:www.spirit-warrior.ca/guestbook.php+site:www.spirit-warrior.ca+%22Circle+of+
Life+Medicine+Way%22&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=ca (http://72.14.253.104/search?q=cache:2ty6RVp9sqAJ:www.spirit-warrior.ca/guestbook.php+site:www.spirit-warrior.ca+%22Circle+of+
Life+Medicine+Way%22&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=ca)

Quote
What I write about here is based in my vision of The Circle of Life Medicine Way For me, I dream of a physical place, with a conventional building, somewhat like a circular meeting place, like a Kiva in Mother Earth. A place where we can all go, people of all faiths. To express and share our grratitude for one and other and self, together in unison, for conscious awareness of living compassionate. I see that it is necessary, to have a natural place inevery part of Mother Earth, places  throughout the cities and commnunities, shrines if you will. I envision a place by the water or with a fountain, with grandfathers rocks in circle to sit on and a tree(s) of life,  with an actual physical labyrinth in the Spirit-Warrior Way. Where we all can come into human connection, in the Global Community, as the Rainbow Tribe of Mother Earth. There will be an  alter, where we will honor all ways of connection to worship and honor spirit and life force / humanity.

Quote
Click this DONATIONS button to take you to a completely secure PAY PAL site... Pilamaya.

It sounds like a nice idea but a more than a bit out there . A circular fountain ? A circle of rocks ? A labrinth ? Rainbow tribe of Mother Earth ? He is also soliciting funds in the UK and Germany . In Germany he seem to have focused on prevention of youth suicide . A nice idea but these are very vulnerable and unstable people .

http://firstclass.skc.edu/news/0000D3A9-80000002/S00A8598D-00A85993?WasRead=1 (http://firstclass.skc.edu/news/0000D3A9-80000002/S00A8598D-00A85993?WasRead=1)

http://www.lakota-aid.co.uk/lkspiritwarrioradd.htm (http://www.lakota-aid.co.uk/lkspiritwarrioradd.htm)

Does this guy really have the practical grounding and skills to do what he is purposing ?

He comes across as a nice guy who really cares , and if he is working with adult Native people in the inner city , in a culturally sensitive way and what he is doing helps , I would support what he is doing wholeheartedly . But I think it is important that people trust their gut instincts and if something doesn't feel right they need to pay attention and trust their feelings . Keep yourself safe first and sort out why you felt that way later .

On the other hand if all these internet advertisements are geared to attracting non native clients , who don't need culturally sensitive therapy programs , and just need therapy , I can't see why this guy would be the best choice .
Title: Re: Jimmy La Vallee & Spiritual Warrior Vision
Post by: frederica on June 22, 2007, 03:27:30 pm
I doubt if you will find much on research on NLP. You would have to find long term research with a large control group. It's just not going to be there. The same goes with all the passing "therapies" such as Gestalt, TA, Reality Therapy and so forth. They deal with basic intact people. They don't report the ones that had psychotic breakdowns from their therapy. It does work for some people, but very little objective data is available. A lot I've seen depends on the Therapist, some of these people are dymamic. I've seen workshops on "Cure PTSD with Metaphores",  interesting but another that has limited use. I think some things can be incorporated to standard practice for some people. The problem I see with a lot of this aside from educational background and no oversite, is in most of Psychiatric Therapies the more people treated and the longer the therapy is used the less effective it turns out to be. As far as LeKay, I doubt if there is a hidden agenda, I just think he would support anything that leans left of the "establishment".  I think Ingleborg said anyone can hang out a psychotherapy sign in Germany as long as no one calls the police. You can come pretty close to it here also. frederica
Title: Re: Jimmy La Vallee & Spiritual Warrior Vision
Post by: coffee_drinker on June 22, 2007, 03:40:45 pm
After a lengthy conversation with the native woman I had posted about concerning Mr. La Valle.

This is what she had to say on her own personal account
" Mr. Valle, when speaking to me, I found through common ground of our race, that I am able to communicate my issues without the frustrations that I have felt with my "white" doctor and therapists.
That his approach of looking into the issues are very common among people in the clinical field of psychology, with the exception of agreeing  with me that medication is not the answer to helping me overcome that which I am battling, unlike the doctor that for 15 minutes only nods his head during the session, writes out a long list of meds, tells me he will see me in a month and then I proceed to the billing office to pay my 165.00 bill for the 15 minutes of void. Afterwards I head to the pharmacy to have my scripts filled and hearing the amount of 110.00 and that is for a month supply of poisons to my body. I have been doing this for 25 years of my life.
I do not have any kind of mental illness that would constitute needing the medications that are pumped into me. In fact now it has added to struggles that many of the medications I have been on have a higher physical addiction than herion.
Mr. Valle has not implied he is a medicine man.
That in the first conversation, spoke out to me, point to exactly what the core of my issue is. This was not implanting into me a thought that was of a "mind control or manipulation"
What started out in my life as  a very workable issue, has now caused so much damage to me by several licensed psychiatrist, and therapist, that has esculated to a level that will now take a lot of work on my behalf to try and overcome.
I do believe that Mr. La Valle can help lead me in the direction that is needed for me to undo all the damage caused from those in the clinical field, amd help address my basic issue".

What I have wrote here is what I was told by this indivudual.
My research has lead me into other things that would be worth starting a new thread. So with that I will walk away from this post to begin a new thread that could use some addressing. Thanks

Ps.. Frederica in your post "The problem I see with a lot of this aside from educational background and no oversite, is in most of Pschiatric Therapies the more people treated and the longer the therapy is used the less efective it turns out to be".
Which is exactly what this lady was saying.

Title: Re: Jimmy La Vallee & Spiritual Warrior Vision
Post by: Moma_porcupine on June 22, 2007, 06:19:55 pm
A medicine man is someone who uses traditional knowledge to heal . Mr Lavallee repeatedly makes the claim that this is what he is doing . So he is describing himself as a medicine man although he does not use those words .

Having someone who cares,  and who supports people in their desire to be healthy , and encourages people to be in touch with how
they are feeling , and to talk about this,  is probably going to be helpful . But all the extra big words don't add meaning or value , and neither does the extensive talk of traditional things on a web page which strips these things of most their meaning and value .   

Anonymus endorsments through anonymus people on line are interesting , but can't be given a lot of wieght . As we are not in Winnipeg we can't possibly know this guys reputation in that community . What would seem sensible is for people to do a search for Aboriginal organizations in the city of Winnipeg that work with Native people in the city .
----------
(edited to add)
Such as ;

http://www.wrha.mb.ca/aboriginalhealth/services/index.php (http://www.wrha.mb.ca/aboriginalhealth/services/index.php)

or

http://www.eyaa-keen.org/ (http://www.eyaa-keen.org/)
which I see is an Aboriginal organization which provides culturaly sensitve psychotheraputic support to Native people in the Winnipeg area , and has many other government funded Aboriginal organizations linking to it's webpage ( a good sign that this oganization  respected in the Winnipeg area)
----------------
 These organizations all know each other , are usually working closely with the native community and Native Elders , and people within them will know the individual people who are doing good work for Native people  . There is sometimes politics and corruption in these organizations ,  but not everyone who works within them is corrupt , and Mr Lavallee should be able to choose three people who can be verified to work in these recognized organizations to give him a reference .  If he can do this , I would have no more concerns than I have with any accredited health care provider .

Personally , I tend to err on the side of caution with all of em ...

( edited to add ; in the interview he gave to John Lekay, Mr Lavalle complained of expereincing corruption in another organization he worked for , and said he had been marginalized in Indian country because of this - which is why I made the comments about corruption . I have no reason to think either of the organizations linked to above are corrupt )
Title: Re: Jimmy La Vallee & Spiritual Warrior Vision
Post by: coffee_drinker on June 22, 2007, 06:38:27 pm
I wasn't endorsing anyone, just posting what was told to me.... Please don't shoot the messenger ;)
Title: Re: Jimmy La Vallee & Spiritual Warrior Vision
Post by: educatedindian on July 02, 2007, 02:28:26 pm
La Vallee's blog. Like the fluffy Nuage artwork.

http://ca.blog.360.yahoo.com/blog-BG6LhU8wcK_YWKCkR_c7T8zL26g-?cq=1

Also received information that La Vallee has seven ex wives, all but one of them white.

Here's the personal ad he placed on True.com. What's interesting is that he would do a Nuage spirchul healer pitch in order to get women.

-----

SpiritWarriorVision
Spiritual Warrior Vision - Earth Spi...

52-year-old in Atlanta, GA (98 miles from you)
Seeking 30 to 60-year-old women
         
Wink back now and include a message to tell him you're interested:
Email me for FREE and tell me more about yourself >>
Wink back at SpiritWarriorVision without including a message >>
               
-----               

This is from another website where he posted.

------ 

akicita 
9/22/2003 11:07 AM

I am a Native American psychotherapist, in Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada... I volunteer my services to many people who cannot afford to pay for this type of service. I mainly help with psycho-social problems of family violence, addictions and oppression/depression...
as well I assist in helping abused people reclaim their identity. I help some, mostly youth and women, who are dealing with spiritual abuse in the form of  spiritual blackmailing and fear mongering... many people come with fears of "bad medicine" from 
quasi-healed men mostly who are sill abusive.
Although I sometimes am paid with traditional payment such as Moose or elk or jams or jellies, it is mostly done as gifts... it is an exchange of faith and hope... I do not pray with my clients or do ceremonies... I do the ceremonies on my own with my teachers/elders... I 
help others intehrate the teachings of psycho-social healing and the values and morals of good life...
I find this rewarding and have seen many people walk 
away from abuse and on to a better life... physically, mentally and emotionally and even spiritually.
Volutnteering is a wonderful gift for the volunteer as well! Giving is spirit... may we all give with healthy nurturing. Akicita Wakan Mani

I read this from a very loving person... someone who was hurt deeply and has much fear...
I had parents who were like this...
I had teachers who were like this...
And they gave me messages, that were "sword - like"
meant to be "cutting" and at the time I felt the pain and shaming of their own shame... they were hurt... by those before them... akicita @ www.spiritwarrior.ca
 
Have you ben shamed by people of the same color as you... by the ones who loked down on you while you laid in your cradle, wrapped in a blanket? Did they neglect you? Do you feel afraid to talk of your hurts and pain? This is shame! And you will pass it on and some do in the name of "Spirit" "God" "Mother Earth"...
 
My brother wrote the following:<<>>
 
"It doesnt really matter, because most folks here dont really listen to each other anyway. 
I think we are all connected, through our mother the Earth,and by spirit through our creator. 
What I do to you I do to myself,to God and all creation. 
I think we should walk our talk. walk softly and carry a 38.special.
I hate bullies and people who prey on the innocent by whatever means.
I dont think spirituality is a liberal thing.
It is a tough job,and isnt for the faint of heart."
>>>End of quote<<<
 
My brother died a horrible death - he was burned to death on the street, plice were present, while a can of "sniff" solvnet ignited! It expolded throughout the hallway he was in and he burst out of the doorway and... it's there. down the steps, a flaming Lakota... he burned beyond recognition... as his sniffing buddy was held back by police... dental records ID'd him later.
He was a burden to society and he said many hurtful things to others and to me...
I never understood why?
 
In this year of 1992, I learned of my own bitterness - my own fear - my own shame and I saw my brother, whom I had judged and critisized an dhurt... I saw him at the Sundance at the tree of life and he smiled... I cried.
 
I understand the racism, the prejudice, the judgement and harshness of HURT PEOPLE! 
 
We, you and I, must learn compassion. Compassion for ourselves... Maybe this is first and then maybe, just maybe we will need to find another being to attach to.... maybe another human being... maybe a four-legged, a winged one or others...
Depending on our trust level and our damage level inside of us. 
This is the way to become free of our hurting and hurtful ways... 
I had shame for me and I showed this to my brother by hurting him and he died never knowing that I loved him... never hearing. I never knew compassion and I was so sorry for not being compasionate to him... 
This is why I went for healing and this is why I live my life to help others... BUT first I make sure that 
I am healthy.... 
I pray to be able to walk through the sahme of my past behaviors and be willing and able to address my hurts and judgements of others... always.
 
I ask us all to pray for the people who are so hurt that they will attack with whatever they can... to hurt you BECAUSE they are hurt.
 
Please take care of your asociations... sometimes our faith is like that baby and we must keep it safe from big "hurt" people...
 
Theree is a saying:
"The truth will set you free... but first, 
It will make your life miserable."
 
akicita @ www.spiritwarrior.ca
Pilamaya, Mitakuye Oyasin...
 
Look deep into your heart for compassion

-----

A blog entry

-----   

Daily Affirmation for June 22, 2007
Family, Familiar... Who Needs To Be Hurt... NO BODY, NO ONE! 
Remember this... I pray that when you have made your move to make war on me, to attack me and my people, that when we finally come to face to face, and look into each other's eyes... that you will have all of your strength and ability...and all the weapons you will need and want.  I pray too at this time, that in this moment that you will be able see and say why and willing to tell me why must do this? To tell to my face why you wish war... say your real reason in your heart and mind, why you come to do this? 
If you still want war, thinking this will end your pain or just because you are disturbed...  then war will be.  May this battle result, only, in the deaths, of the lies, of the trickery and  of the dis-connection from our Creator... our true source of living... There will no death of anyone's heart.
You will say why - what is inside your heart and mind that you do this... and be willing to put that away forever - heal it all.
Then when we are through, then only with the truth, will we sit and smoke to peace."

I pray for all those that act out in hurtful ways, to hurt others, thinking they have no conscience or responsibility... I ask you,
WHAT ARE YOU DOING TO END THE HOOD? 
OR ARE YOU CAUSING OTHERS TO STAY IN THE HOOD?
THE VICTIM-HOOD... TO HAVE THEM FOR YOUR OWN MIS-USE?

Life used to be used to be a real challenge, even fearful at times... for sure there were hurtful times... sad and angering too, when shame-based people would attack or someone near me would be attacked where I could actually see it and feel the attack.  Wow!   
Now it is - Today  - And it is directly and because of the appropriate and relevant strengthening healing work... yes actual understanding and the inner resolution of the deepest reasons why I did not live as well as I wanted to and acted like I knew to...  and the true re-education!! 
I am not talkin' of those old, useless, and ordinary type of do-gooder hide-my-own-faults I-am-educated acts... like those who just read a book or watch a documentary or a movie or do a world wide web INFORMING search for info or do a closed-inner group consciuosness meeting or one or a couple of weekends of spiritual orgasmic workshop or attend or go to a revealing confession-type ceremony that gives them a reprieve or break from their hatefulness and abusiveness AND then they RETURN... for some, they will go back to their NATURAL OLD FAMILY WAY and just keep on violating others... maybe even sexualizing and / or druggin' and drinkin' ... This is not educating and not healing and not a good excuse  to keep on abusing anyone.   
I have work with people who are acting out or in... I encourage everyone to speak out and say what it is they actually feel and think about life and what life has done to them... people who have twisted their fear and shame into hurtfulness to others... in sometimes distorted grotesque way in some cases - really believe it! This is realty.  And I see that while their beliefs must be said and shown - they still must be stopped in their abusiveness  - Regardless if they are really scary or not!   
Challenged lovingly and truthfully, with no excuse for abuse.... I was shown this way by healthy helpers/healers is what works. This is what helps me do my work, which I have personally done - I do exactly - how and what I need to do to keep my integrity and dignity and keep the abuser safe... even in the face of violent abusive people... I accept how and why to stand up as Sundancer Warrior... to any human being who acts out abusively.   
IT DOES NOT MATTER!!!
 IF THEY ARE - 
                          A   DOCTOR (he knows that I am a doctoral candidate)
               A  LAWYER
                 A  TEACHER (me again)
                                     OR INDIAN CHIEF
                            A   NEW AGE GURU
 
OR WHETHER THEY ARE 
DRUNK - WET OR DRY!
DRUGGED UP OR DOWN!
EDUCATED AND SOCIALIZED
OR IN A GANG OR
REAL THREATENING - MEAN AND VIOLENT
AND LIVE ON THE STREETS!

You are to be willing to BE decisively looking - seeing all that is happening with the attacker and all that they are CHOOSING to OR REFUSING to leave out OR AVOIDING OR OUT-RIGHT LYING ABOUT -  (no waffling here) so that they are or may be allowed to keep going with being abusive and / or allowed to intellectualize their abusiveness... this can be seen by them (and believed in their own way of thinking - as completely - natural) as - justifying, even promoting them in their abusiveness and violation way. This is saying to them that violence works to control others.
For sure be aware, ask, check out what and why they  are doing what they are doing, AND... Yet when they are right there in front of you and they are being abusive...  you are obligated to ask why and you must ask them straight forward if they are here, present and accounted for -   to do the "solution work"... to heal themselves within the problem 
AND they must be able, fully functionally to relate to you that you have NO HISTORY with them and that they do not need to be attacking you...  this is your true way of relating to them... AND when they are not willing to share their personal history then it will not work - the healing process that is. You need to see that they use violence and that they will do whatever hurtful way that they know and are comfortable... what they "USE" to relate to you. 
Keep in mind that you did not violate them. Stay open to resolution - this is tough to do.
 
It is good to know and remember that we all have fear, normal fear, not strengthened by unresolved states of acting out - which really is a state of "great fear" and "shame" or more specifically - terror which is greater than normal fear
Ultimately I have prepared to not go backwards for anyone... not even myself.

 "THE GREATEST SIN OF OUR TIME
IS NOT THE FEW WHO HAVE DESTROYED, 
BUT THE VAST MAJORITY 
WHO'VE SAT IDLY BY."   
                                             Martin Luther King Jr.

Practically and Humbly, I offer my prayers for peaceful resolution to all global confrontations... starting within myself and emanating out to all I come to or who come to me.  All people have the right to be safe and empowered... to live, speak and walk in healthy and well connection, in truth, balanced and in harmony with laws and justice of all humanity and Mother Earth.   
Pilamaya, Mitakuye Oyasin

And for anyone out there reading this who does not read well or chooses to ignore SOME of what I write here -

I DO NOT MEAN ALL NATIVE AMERICANS!
I MEAN SOME NATIVE AMERICANS!
STILL TODAY - THERE ARE FAR TOO MANY OF US
SPEWING RACIST, DEROGATORY INNUENDO,
GOSSIP, AND EVEN - OUT-RIGHT LIES ABOUT ONE AND OTHER!
AND THIS IS WHAT...
the pipe was meant to be clearing up!
As well as other things troubling us and the rest of the world!
Get it - THE REST OF HUMANKIND!

This is why the sacred pipe was brought to us.

It has been my experience that gossip, innuendo, and out-right lies are perpetrated in homes, in the work place, in the schools, in the city, on the reservations... and in some very isolated cases - in a circle or in some ceremonies! There is no place sacred from this 
LATERAL VIOLATION!!

Confrontation and challenge is good when,  what we are challenging or confronting has substantiated proof!  Not gossip!  Not the type concocted by some one wronged through some old issue or through some shame-based fear of attack.  Not just some person who has a private personal agenda of shaming another person and maybe to deflect exposure or help for or  from their own troubles... maybe their own same violations.  of a violation that you have seen or have a producible witness, not "hearsay" or "so-and-so said" and so then - it must be true!!  And to make matters worse... I will not divulge... I will not say, who exactly said the exact information!! Doing this does not allow for substantiating the reason for the confrontation or accusations and nobody gets free.   
This way makes VICTIMS of all people.

There are laws against slander and lies... just cause the system we live in says it is OK to not tell all the truth - You know - Truth but with leaving some things out - which is really lying by omitting all the facts OR lies by changing the facts, altering what happened or what was was said - This is a biggy"
Title: Re: Jimmy La Vallee & Spiritual Warrior Vision
Post by: Skully on July 05, 2007, 06:29:08 am
From Stephen Barrett, MD's Quackwatch.com:

Neurolinguistic programming (NLP) is a variable system of procedures purported to enable people to communicate more effectively and influence others. It is said to involve modifying the patterns or "programming" created by interactions among the brain (neuro), language (linguistic), and the body that produce both effective and ineffective behavior. Proponents claim that NLP has cured phobias, allergies, and other problems in one or a few brief sessions. Its core postulates are: (a) people are most influenced by messages that reflect how they internally represent whatever they are doing; and (b) this representation is reflected by eye-gaze patterns, posture, tone of voice, and language patterns. The internal representation can be visual (picturing what they are involved with), auditory (hearing it sounded out), or can involve other senses. Proponents claim, for example, that a someone experiencing a mental image might use the words "I see," whereas someone in an auditory mode might say "that sounds right to me. Scientific studies have demonstrated no correlation between eye movements and visual imagery, reported thoughts, or language choices. A National Research Council committee has found no significant evidence that NLP's theories are sound or that its practices are effective.

Also see:

Mental Help: Procedures to Avoid (http://www.quackwatch.org/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/mentserv.htm)

More poignant that that though, is that he never even finished his Bachelor's Degree. Pre-med is simply a state of mind anyway, and not a degree program.
Title: Re: Jimmy La Vallee & Spiritual Warrior Vision
Post by: educatedindian on July 06, 2007, 02:51:04 pm
Noticed that on La Vallee's site, his Daily Affirmations now say that he does not use NLP, even though elsewhere on the site he describes it as one of the things that make him qualified to be a counselor.

La Vallee is now solicting along with Lekay for testimonies against NAFPS. I'd guess Lekay went through "therapy" with La Vallee. Maybe that's affecting how sloppy Lekay is in his "research."

La Vallee, by one account I've received, was both physically and emotionally abusive to at least two of his wives. He also was conducting "therapy" over the phone using what this account described as "ceremonial rituals" for which he did charge. La Vallee also mentioned Thunderbird House, but nowhere on the site does he say that he didn't get funded through Thunderbird House to conduct his "therapies."
Title: Re: Jimmy La Vallee & Spiritual Warrior Vision
Post by: frederica on July 06, 2007, 03:36:47 pm
There is just no valid long term information on NLP. They have had time, but not objective data. Here is a good idea of their lack of emperical information. http://skepdic.com/neurolin.html I can see why he backed off of his claim. And Paulie is right about pre-med. That is just a group of courses offered by Universities for not only Doctors, but pre-pharmacy, pre-nursing, and so on. But you have to graduate to pick your field. frederica
Title: Re: Jimmy La Vallee & Spiritual Warrior Vision
Post by: educatedindian on July 09, 2007, 07:00:23 pm
La Vallee just wrote an incredibly long (15-20 pages) letter to Lekay that's alternately laugh out loud funny and makes your jaw drop in amazement in how foolish it is.

I think I've been wearing out this Winston Churchill quote at my other site, www.davidyeagley.org. But it fits here too.

"There's nothing more exhilirating than to be sniped at to no effect."

I haven't see any sign that Lekay or La Vallee have been able to hurt us the slightest bit. Just the opposite, I keep getting letters of support, people keep coming to us for help and joining at the same rate, sites keep using us as a resource, and I don't know of anyone whose believed a word that Lekay and Co have to say, outside of a few exploiters pouting that we're mean and racist lunatics like Yeagley.

The articles that Lekay keeps putting out makes him and the people he interview look far worse than we could ever make them
look, downright obsessed and crazed.

As far as I'm concerned, Lekay can keep writing all the "exposes" he wants. It's less time he'll be spending promoting more exploiters and other fringe characters out to do damage to Indian Country like Dupree and Annett.

Annika, in fact, tells me his "exposes" have been great publicity for the film. Thanks John. I really mean that. ;D

For most of the twenty pages, La Vallee compares me to Tim McVeigh and the shooter at Virginia Tech. Remember how Lekay attacked Tachia in here? What is it with these two that they automatically compare any NDN who disagrees with them to mass murderers?

You bet, La Vallee, my asking *actual* psychologists, who then say how your "credentials" are worthless, that's the same as killing dozens or hundreds with bombs or assault weapons.
 
All that La Vallee is doing is driving away potential client/marks by showing how terrible he is at being a counselor. No reputable psychologist or psychiatrist would diagnose someone they'd never met. The one psychology term he doesn't seem to know is "Projection."

There's some other huge mistakes in the letter that are pretty amusing. Lekay actually identifies photos of La Vallee as *photos of me*. Lekay does this not once but four times that I counted, much like earlier he and Robin kept confusing Annika with Frederica.

La Vallee is now claiming he just wanted to congratulate Annika on the film, nothing more. He conveniently forgets that it was *Lekay* who insisted, "I know someone who can help you" and that La Vallee repeatedly offered to "help cure you".

In fact most of the people that Lekay contacted he then tried to urge them to become clients of La Vallee. Lekay is actively soliciting business for La Vallee.

For what? A cut? A misguided belief in his "guru"? Lekay had earlier believed in the "crystal skulls" nonsense about Mayans, making them for years until another better artist made his own and sold them for 30 million dollars. Lekay then publicly complained about his "art" being "stolen".

La Vallee also claimed that Lekay is not a racist. But then La Vallee openly repeated the same rumors being spread by an open racist, a follower of white supremacist David Yeagley, named John Martin.

And while claiming he has been healed of violence, La Vallee doesn't see any problems with Lekay working with a violent lunatic, the same John Martin. Or the accounts of an ex client below, where La Vallee got violent with at least two of his wives.

A former client of La Vallee emailed me to tell me several things:

His clients are almost exclusively white women. He uses the "I can heal you" pitch to hit on them. It's how he met most of his wives. So it's quite possible he thought he could make Annika his White Wife Number Seven, and thus have influence over how the film was made.

He actually does not have that many clients. For the most part La Vallee lives off of his white wives that began as his clients.

As his control starts to slip over his white wives, for at least two of them he became violent and threatening, shoving one and causing a loud enough scene where the police were called.

He is no longer using his first name of Jimmy and is instead calling himself Jaye La Vallee. He has done this in the past when facing complaints about the ethics of what he does. It's his attempt at an alias.

None of the people whose names La Vallee drops as proof of him being legit actually endorse him. Not Phil Fontaine, not Looking Horse. And the photo that is supposedly him with Bishop Tutu? Big deal. My sister met Jimmy Carter (at a book signing), that doesn't mean that Carter endorses her. It's pretty obvious the guy was one of many standing in line to have his photo taken. (Heck, you can even see the line in the photo.)

That ex client also congratulated me for the thread here, saying they see La Vallee's letter to Lekay as a sign of panic, that La Vallee is probably losing clients and income.

Ironically, as everyone can see, this thread is still under Research Needed after all this time. We really don't have a category for La Vallee. We usually go after spiritual exploiters, and he's more of a pseudo science or medical quack.

I don't think we should put him under Frauds, for the simple reason we'll be accused of doing it as retaliation instead of on its merits.

I will not be the one to move this thread to Frauds. I think only if most of NAFPS says that he belongs in Frauds should one of the other moderators move it.   

A final point: La Vallee demanded I speak with him by phone, demanded I publish my phone number. He must be joking...

Contact me through the forum, Jimmy/Jaye/etc. I believe I can help you, especially by gettin you away from the people who use you like Lekay, and the people you use, like Lekay. My faith insists that even the worst of us, like you and Lekay and the racist lunatic that Lekay works with, John Martin, need to be prayed for and helped and can change.

I doubt he'll take me up on it. Both Lekay and La Vallee seem to be afraid to come onto a forum that is mostly NDN.

Fact is, NAFPS probably is going easier on them than any other NDN forum would. They haven't dared set foot on any forums like Indianz, where they'd get torn apart, laughed and mocked endlessly.
Title: Re: Jimmy La Vallee & Spiritual Warrior Vision
Post by: educatedindian on July 11, 2007, 02:01:04 pm
This is pretty funny. La Vallee's personal ads. What's revealing is how he uses the guru pitch to get women, tells them what he claims is his spiriti name, uses his personal ad to pitch for his online business, and his claim of how much he makes by posing as a counselor.

-----
At match.com

54-year-old man
Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
seeking women 24-58
within 50 miles of Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada

About me and what I'm looking for
I am a believer in destiny... and co-creating life. Allowing our dreams come true through by being honest and upfront. No old mismanagement ways. 
Walking the Talk. I believe that love is straightforward - you either share freely and openly and understand your past and have resolved it or YOU are willing to resolve it in a way that is kind, considerate of me as your partner. 
I am 6'2" and weigh 212 lbs. I love to exercise and stay in shape in all ways. I am involved in ballroom dancing - I am a beginner still but enthusiastic and would love to be your partner. I love to move in unison and to be happy and smile with you. 
Although I am not a prude I am balanced and I am sexually healthy and I love show my affection publicly. I love fun and play without teasing about personal aspects of your or life. And I have a commitment or zest to grow in all ways. Even though I walk a spiritual path based in the Traditional ways of the Native American Indian of which I am, I lovingly embrace other ways of faith and spirituality… I believe in looking into your eyes and speaking with inspiration to live greater. I believe in gentleness and truth and live to make this world a better place. 
I can lighten up as well… you know I am not terminally serious!! Smiles. 
I listen well and I share with my heart... in the quest to live happily ever after. 
I feel my feelings and speak of my heart all ways - will you? 
I need you to send your Current Picture! Within 3 Months! Please do not send dated ones. See you soon. 
“My spirit name is Akicita Wakan Mani, which means the Warrior with Spirit who walks and talks to others.??? 
I believe in and honor the process of seeking the spirit of life - love. I understand we all have issues and aspects of our past life and I have them too…I have walked much in life and I have honestly resolved those things in my life that were not co-creative. 
I wish, I hope, I dream, I seek someone who will live these too. 
Walk in Beauty you do.

Self Employed
Income: $35,001 to $50,000

for fun:
I believe in destiny and fate... 
I believe in dancing and moonlte strolls... 
I believe in co-creating our future and fulfilling our dreams. 
I inderstand and live conscious and aware and fully alive!

my job:
healing helping transformational guiding

I am a follower of my traditional teachings in a gentle way.
my religion:
I honor all ways with peace and love.

I love honesty, "Honesty without compassion is cruelty". I live this way. I am inspired by your gentleness, yet strength of intention and dedciation. I love touch I loved South Africa... and I love the Blackhills. We will walk in beauty and light

last read:
I read Spirit Warrior Vision - Thw Spirit-Warrior Way

-----
His myspace spot has him dressed in regalia while doing his guru pitch. Like what he puts down as occupation. A bit of irony in his Who I'd Like to Meet, given his history with his many wives.

-----
"Spirit-Warrior Way - The Circle of Life Medicine"
Male
55 years old
Winnipeg, Manitoba
Canada
Last Login: 6/14/2007
Hometown:   Winnipeg
Occupation:   transformational guide
Income:   Less than $30,000
Who I'd like to meet:
PLEASE! PLEASE! PLEASE!!!
STOP! SEXUAL DEVIANTS / PREDATORS... DO NOT SEND INVITES TO ME!!
THIS IS NOT A PLACE TO SELL YOUR SELF OR ANY PART OF YOU!! SO PLEASE DO NOT SEND ME INVITES FOR YOUR SITE OR PLACE OR WHATEVER IT IS YOU ARE PRO-POSING. PILAMYA - THANK YOU
Title: Re: Jimmy La Vallee & Spiritual Warrior Vision
Post by: educatedindian on July 11, 2007, 02:02:48 pm
And some very strange revelations in his Daily Affirmations. Apparently he is not widely trusted on at one reserve and so he makes a lot of accusations against the chief.

On the second one a former client of his died, under what circumstances is not clear. Again he claims to be the victim of what he claims are more false accusations.

For the Aug 19 entry, he feels the need to smear the name of an exwife.

For the Nov 17 entry, he actually *admits* to abusing another of his exwives.

The entry after that is the strangest of all, where he admits to a strange fascination for blond white women and girls, and to thinking whites are superior and kinder.

-----

Daily Affirmation for August 19, 2004
Release the bitterness... the negativity AND still stay honest to your beliefs!    I think about the injustice in this world and I am sometimes caught in the moment of being done wronged  by "others"...   especially a former client who became a former chief / leader.  I have been damaged by false accusations  and as a result I am cut-off from helping many of my people.   This woman chief lied to others and made it impossible for many of her people to get help, especially from me.  As a direct result of this - people have died and addiction and dysfunctional life runs rampant on this reservation.  I pray for this person to be touched by the Creator and that they come out publicly and admit to this wrong.  I pray for those who suffer and for those on the brink of suicide and death by addiction.  I understand why she did it.  She was stealing at the time and under great pressure... She came from an extremely abusive childhood home and community. Her marriage was horrible and so she had to leave.   Her children came to me after she whipped them with a wire.  I was attacked for helping them and told to stay out of her "fuckin' business"... I told her that we have succeeded... because of her choices... her children had somewhere to go.  Something that she and I did not have. This was when I was attacked and accusations were made and she and another counsellor tried to get others to say things about me.  Things like sexual misconduct and "putting spells" on people.  I was forced out and continued to work near the reservation... working out of a storage shed of an elderly white woman's home.  How sad that I was stopped from helping my people... how angering it is to know that they suffer so much and that many more of those people suffer and die needlessly because this person will not come forward and admit to this lie even though they have been convicted of theft of more than twenty thousand dollars.  How sad! Please pray for those who suffer and ask god to help us to let them know that there are people who care - truly.  We can do this... I pray for you, my friend and I ask you to pray for me.  I am honoured that you visited here. Let us all pray for the leaders of the people....
Pilamaya - Thank you

Today I pray for release from bitterness (anger, guilt and fear)...  I hope to honor the death of a former client by this writing.   I think about the injustice in this world and I am sometimes caught in the moment of pain...  of being horribly  wronged  by "others"...   Especially when this person is a former client, whom I helped. in order that she would believe in herself...  have the belief enough to become a  a chief...  a leader.  of her community. Then this person, this woman covered up her thefts by lying about me... focusing on me.   I have been damaged by false accusations.  Others suffer because of this... as a result I am cut-off from helping many of my/our  people.   This woman / chief lied to others and made it impossible for many of her people to want or get help, especially from me.  As a direct result of these kind of ugly situations - where people are dying!  And the addictions, violence  and dysfunctional life runs rampant on this reservation. WHY!   I pray for this person,  to be touched by the Creator and that they come out publicly and admit to this wrong.  I pray for those who suffer and for those on the brink of suicide and death by addiction.  I understand why she did it.  She and another family member were stealing money at the time I was heading the healing the community program.  We all were under  great pressure...   Sadly, she succumbed to the compulsion, the need to medicate by acquiring more money, even if it meant stealing from her own poor people!   

This woman came from an extremely abusive childhood home and community. Her marriage was a horrible torturous part of her life and from this, she had to escape.   

Her children came to me after she whipped them with a wire and cut one.  I was attacked for helping them and told to stay out of her "fuckin business"... I said to her that we have made progress from our childhood days and that  today because of her bringing me to her community that her children had somewhere to go and someone to help them.   Something that she and I did not have.   Her shame was too great for her to acknowledge this.  This was when I was attacked and accusations were formulated by her.  She tried to convince others be scaring them.  This, then Chief and a tribal counsellor, tried to get others to say things about me.  They scared people so badly... with things like me "putting spells" on people and insisting that some were made sexual advances from me. This is exactly what men do to women and these were woman doing this! Horrible fear mongering.  They did this to their own elders and family members.

I was forced out and yet I continued to work near the outskirts of the reservation... I worked out of a storage shed of an elderly white woman's home.  Some still came to get my help.   How sad that I was stopped from helping our people... how angering it is to know that they suffer so much and that many more of those people suffer and die needlessly because this person will not come forward and admit to this lie even though they have been convicted of theft of more than twenty thousand dollars.  How sad! Please pray for those who suffer and ask god to help us to let them know that there are people who care - truly.  We can do this... I pray for you, my friend and I ask you to pray for me.  I pray for peace inside of me and you  and resolution to these and others hurtful situations.... I am honoured that you visited here...
Pilamaya - Thank you

Daily Affirmation for August 19, 2003
Freedom from alcohol, drugs, violence, racism, and neglect are just some of the aspects of life that we must have. But when we are free of these hurtful things... who will hold us and love us,? Maybe nurture us? without sexualizing us.
I thought I was a healed person and then I found a "special" woman - a partner - who was cunning and baffling and I was caught... in the same stuff I thought I had I had healed from... alcohol, violence, racism and neglect... (
I have left that damaged person and divorced...what I realized was, that I needed to understand and divorce from the shame I had consumed and I have realized my "trauma bond" to shame based people...  I was given back exactly what I had given out in my life! And I thought I was so healthy.
Freedom is a journey because we must always face the crap of life and it is like going to the bathroom... You need to do it every day.
so - be aware of the people you meet and be very aware of your associations.
I thank the Creator for the lesson and I pray for all who are in trouble.
Pilamaya

Daily Affirmation for November 17, 2003
In relationship... I ended up feeling so used and abused.  I used to wonder how and why I felt so bitter... so violated and violating... so distorted towards someone whom I was supposed to love.  Even after admitting to being abusive, I still could not face my deep shame and all of my distortions.  I did not trust myself after realizing that I was flawed and probably un-worthy of help. 
I thought of myself as unworthy of any understanding or help... let alone... love.
I have came to "understand" my distorted view... my mixed-up way of being in "love" . Being in relationship meant trouble and being out meant trouble... I was screwed.  Lonely if I wasn't in relationship and when in a "trusted" one... facing my past loneliness when I was more secure that the person wouldn't leave.  This only came after a while, in relationship, I became comfortable to let go of my "defenses"... my nice, controlled act and I felt comfortable in accessing some of my past situations and letting some of my pain out.  Sadly... hurtfully, I thought I was safe to deal with my "inner damage"... sorrowfully, I did not tell my partner!  I did not truly understand... 
I did not understand and I ended up hurting them - abusing them.  I prayed to God to the creator many times to help me find a way out...
I distortedly hoped that they would stay... just the way mommy and daddy did.  Through so much horrendous ugliness!  My partner would just needed to understand and perservere!  I sure as did  not think of the other persons needs!   I was so damaged and damaging. 
Since then, I have been able to identify my damage and my need to abuse, through therapy.  I tried and failed to do this in any relationship, except for the one I decided to have with my self... my past... my present and my future.  I believe any one of us can do this... some people can and will do this within a relationship... AND this can very hard to do AND be abusive to both of you.  Faith and Belief in Creation is essential to the process... and the only way this can be done, safely, is through therapy!  Prayer and commitment to this process is the only way to strengthen your resolve to positive, lasting change...  I am here for you and I will share my truth and my truth is in my experiences...  Please know that shame will keep you stuck.  I know shame all to well and to me shame is the hungry wolf at my door, during the winter and in time of poverty and starvation... poor faith.  I will not knowingly abuse you and should it happen, I will admit and resolve this!  I realize those prayers were finally answered and yet, today, I still need to stay vigilant about abuse.  Do you need help???
 Pilamaya, Meegwetch, Tansi... Thank you... we are all related... without abuse.

I realized, deep into my therapy, my connection to a little blond, blue-eyed girl and my shame.  How these situations showed me so much about my identity of shame and self-hatred.  I can remember, a little girl, whose family lived downstairs of a church... She wanted to play with me and I with her.  Just friends.  She was just so accepting and she peaceful for me.  I didn't realize color of skin... I just liked that it wasn't aggressive and scary.  I just remember her parents making her come in soon after I arrived. Then one day, I went to see her... no one was there. Her family had moved.  I was heartbroken.

 Then at age 5, I was sent to nursery school... I met another little blond girl, Kathy and up until grade 9, age 15, I was so deeply attracted to her. She hardly even noticed me.  I tried desperately to be noticed by her.  I saw how people fussed over her and commented on how beautiful she was.  I wished, I wished I could be thought of that way.  I saw her play with the white children and not me... I envied her and them. When I tried to come too close, I was bullied away - so lonely.  It is hard to envision how this was then and for a long long time.

I understood that I was different and the strength of that shame I felt was magnified by the neglect and abuse I endured at home from my parents and siblings.  I was like an open sore for any distorted mean person who might have had "just a bad day".  I equated beauty and exceptance  with that blond hair, blue eyes and white skin... because of the affection these type of kids got and the fact that much of my early compassion came from white female teachers.  This was good... except that I was so mixed up about what I was. 

The special ones, teachers of white skin, females, who for the most part were kind, gentle, and compassionate and supportive made me dream and wish of a mommy, who just loved me and wanted only me.  I bonded to this "dream time" as a form of love and it tore my heart out to go to my home most days and it tore my heart out to pass the higher grade and move away from them... the kind, caring ones.  I cherished these times even more than I realized. 

Today, I know why and I have seen the goodness and understand.
I found these memories, in therapy and I am so forever blessed with them... this love, as I choose to see it and the longing for it kept me alive at times.  I connect the kindness and caring these white people showed me and the haven they provided for me in my childhood.  My childhood home was abusive and sad and lonely. What was so entrenching in me was, the picture of people of my same color abusing me... scarred me so deeply.  I "needed" those "white-people" more than they will ever know.  I learned the beginnings of abuse and shame from my own people and then... from other races.  I was left open to the hurts and pains of other races - by my own people.  The shame brought on by abuse from your own kind... is so deep and devastating. 
I forgive all who have hurt me and  I work on forgiving myself for hurting others. Today, I acknowledge and  I say pilamaya for all of those who were there because they were just human and others too. I will forever miss, the "Ishtato" - Blue-Eyes... You are in my prayers and dreams...
Title: Re: Jimmy La Vallee & Spiritual Warrior Vision
Post by: educatedindian on July 24, 2007, 01:45:11 am
Received a report from an ex client of more of La Vallee's strange behavior. He seems to be estranged from almost all of his children.

La Vallee was at an institute several years ago in Switzerland that sponsors a mix of educators representing their cultures and outright obvious frauds. 

Thanks to our translator. No wonder Lekay doesn't want Europeans involved. That helps protect the frauds. I doubt one American in a hundred speaks German, and for NDNs, the number is probably one in a thousand.

http://www.imsonnen buehl.com/ wirueberuns. html

Im Sonnenbuehl - Institute for Multilevel Communication

Workshop Centre 'Top of Zurich' with Bed and Breakfast

...Jacqueline Mannheimer is the founder and president of the Institute for
Multilevel Communication. She is a mystic. Through her long years of pioneer
work in schooling body and mind, she has developed the ability to show
individual ways to persons to get to their inner source of power.

Jacqueline Mannheimer works with "people for people". After an education in
the field of medicine, she acquired a Master's Diploma in classical
Ericksonian and modern hypnosis and NLP. Work and dance of contraries,
meditation, yoga, integrative massage of the entire body, shiatsu, massage of
reflex zones, energy work, and numerology are central elements of her work.
Jacqueline Mannheimer is an artist who practices communication on several
levels, works in a way oriented at solutions, and is able to enter various
processes in an intuitive way....

At our premises at "Im Sonnenbuehl - Top of Zurich", individual sessions and
courses with Jacqueline Mannheimer and other internationally known therapists
from various cultures are taking place constantly.

Events in 2007

May 18-28, 2007

Workshop, Konferenz, Konzert mit Dabadi Thaayrohyadi [Note: We've discussed him before I think.]

Spiritual Leader and Wisdomkeeper of the Otomi, Olmec, Toltec, Teotihuacan
tradicion of central Mexico;

Founder of the International Indigenous University

Events in 2006

November 24-29

Thaay - a shaman from Mexico

Thaayrohyadi is a mental descendant of the Atlantian-Lemurian culture. He is a
traditional healer, historian, poet and interpretes ceremonial music. He is a
member of the Council of Indigenous Elders and Priests of America. As a
founder and president of the International Indigenous University, he is
commited to work for peace and unity worldwide.
www.universidadindi gena.org

November 25, 2006
Inipi (Sweatlodge) , cleansing ceremony
Arrival: from 6 p.m., ceremony to start at 7 p.m.
If possible, arrive at 6 p.m. and bring two towels and light garment.

September 22, 2006
Concert and meditation evening
Approx 7 p.m. - 10 p.m., SFR 40,-

Events in 2005
September 18: Full Moon ritual,
in Spanish and German language

September 24: Intercultural Flea Market/Jumble Sale

June 25:
New Year Ritual: Renewal of the Energy of the Sun
(Mapuche people, Indians from the South of Chile)
in Spanish and German language

Paola Aroca Cayunao,
social worker, presently doing a Ph.D. in eduation and social pedagogocs,
granddaughter of a female Mapuche shaman.

Born and raised in Chile, where she learned the language of nature and healing
amid ancient traditions, rituals, and ceremonies. "When I dive into the
rites, my mind/brains destructure to make way for the trance of healing... It
is there that my soul transforms into a bird which flies through the worlds
in freedom - worlds which are unknown to the Western mind."

Lilia Wettstein
Reflex-zone massaging of feet and cranio-sacral therapy
Born in Columbia. Together with laughter and spontaneity, she discovered the
tenderness and calm of her hands. "Massage for me is opening the body in
direction of the infinite worlds of our soul."

EVENTS in 2004

April 24 and 25
Dance and Meeting with Life
Introduction into shamanic philosophy from Mexico with
EDGAR AUGUSTIN DELGADO OREA
Mexican, shaman, author, poet, artist, dancer, seer

June 4 and 5
Inipi (Sweatlodge) with Rainer Wiest
6 p.m. - mixed
Fee: SFR 40,-

July 12
INIPI (Sweatlodge) with Gabriela Schmiedlin - mixed
Fee: SFR 40,-

August 6-15, 2004
Indian Workshop with Mr JAYE A. LA VALLEE<<<<<

August 6-12: Adventure week for children
Get to know more about Indian culture [sic], way of life, and world view with
fun and games
Daily from 10 a.m. to 5 p.m.
Fee: SFR 550,- including afternoon snack and lunch

link to flyer (.pdf)

August 13-15: Seminar
Friday: 6 p.m. - open end
Sat/Sun: 10 a.m. - open end
Fee: SFR 420,- including lunch and afternoon snack

August 21
INIPI (Sweatlodge) with Gabriela Schmiedlin - women only
Fee: SFR 40
Title: Re: Jimmy La Vallee & Spiritual Warrior Vision
Post by: educatedindian on July 24, 2007, 09:27:46 pm
The flyer for that event in Switzerland shows La Vallee *did* sell ceremonies,and also offered them for sale.  He's being moved to Frauds.

The workshop is for children. For someone with La Vallee's admitted problems with substance abuse and violence to have workshops with children seems to be a formula for trouble. Esp since La Vallee has little contact with his own children.

-----

"Adventure Week for Children with Mr Jaye A. La Vallee, a Lakota Plains Indian

Mr Jaye A. La Vallee is a Native American from Winnipeg, Manitoba. As a coach and therapist he acquired experience in working with children, youths, and
adults. He absolved his trainings in Paha Sapa, Rapid City in South Dakota, in Alberta, Arizona, Tennessee, Winnipeg, and Washington D.C."

Right after the children's week, they offer a weekend seminar with LaVallee at SFR 420 including afternoon snack and lunch. There is another pdf with the
flyer for the seminar.

At the top of the page, there is the same intro text about La Vallee, added by:

" 'In former times, we all were one people who lived with and for each other, same as the Four Leggeds, the Winged Ones, and all other creatures on earth.
Through spiritual life, we can explore this lost harmony again.'

'Sowing a better future through the Present with the Past'

The following issues are possible, depending on requirements:
- seeing with one's heart
- proximity - distance, reliability/obligations in a relationship
- variety of relationships
- What is my next step
- ceremonies<<<<<

Special individual coachings available"

Translator's comments:

This is a reference to LaVallee's site below.

The second page is just general info about the camp, the fees charged, that sleeping in a tipi will be possible when you contact the organizers in
advance, that fees include afternoon snack and lunch, and how to travel to the premises.

What I...do find odd is that there is NO info at all about what is going to take place during that week! If I was a parent, I'd certainly like to know what will happen, what is planned to keep the kids busy, what they will learn. But there is not even as much as a hint as far as the week's program is concerned! Except for the very vague description of an 'adventure week'.
Another aspect getting me ears up is that the event is advertised as a week "for children" without mentioning the age group prefered.

The kids will receive two meals a day, an afternoon snack and lunch at noon.
The flyer informs parents that kids should also bring 'delicacies' for the evening buffet and that it was possible to organize barbecues in the evening.
I'd still miss breakfast which does not get mentioned at all.

The flyer mentions accom in a tipi is available on demand and if booked in advance. And what is the accomodation planned for the others?

Please also take due note that the flyer does not say accomodation was included in the fee charged.

I'd also be concerned why my kid(s) should be with a therapist! for a week when nothing is wrong with them, and as far as I'm concerned, a therapist
working with children with problems does not automatically have the skills it takes to take responsibility for kids without any problems for a week, or
keep them busy for a week, or will be quite in a position to set up a program for them.

What gets mentioned on page 2 is that La Vallee will do stuff with the kids between 10 a.m. and 5 p.m. The flyer says parents were welcome, but nothing
is mentioned whether parents will be required to accompany children, or in what way children will be taken care of before and after hours. I wouldn't
quite want kids say between ages 6 and 12 running free most of the day without anybody keeping an eye on them.

From what does not get said, I assume this offer aims mainly at parents very familiar with the premises and what is going to happen there, and if the
occasional 'stranger' book their kids, fair enough.
Title: Re: Jimmy La Vallee & Spiritual Warrior Vision
Post by: corkscrew2010 on December 03, 2010, 05:55:08 am
I know this guy for about forty years off and on. Before he was a supposed warrior, he was pretty messed up. He had a penchant for the ladies too, if you get my meaning. I can say these things because I know him personally and can back it up. I also know at one time he pretty much told his culture to " go do, you know what!" - so it amazed me when suddenly he was into his culture again, seems shady to me, because I know his background. Don't get me wrong...people can change, but to dive into the same cesspool doesn't make sense to me, he should have chosen a field or lifestyle totally away from guru's, sport heros, and spirituality, in my view. He might live obscure but maybe that's the problem, he can't..or won't. He obviously still needs that attention, which is sad. He once had a kickboxing match (its public knowledge) and he got jumped in the ring after he won, by his opponents and he charged them with assault. That's many years ago. He couldn't let that go. I think the womanizing thing is still probably an issue which will always plague him, just guessing. Anyways, he still has a way to go. If he's sincerely helped some people, great, but me thinks, it's still pretty much about him, pretty boy Lavallee, lol.