Author Topic: Steve McCullough aka Iktomi Sha & Salt Creek Sundance  (Read 254714 times)

Offline Creative Native

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Re: Steve McCullough
« Reply #135 on: October 04, 2008, 01:33:37 pm »
Actually the Wopila wasn't the sundance... it was a "thank you" for the sundance. The $5 charge was for the campground where it was held.

Offline pink bear

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Re: Steve McCullough
« Reply #136 on: October 04, 2008, 04:22:47 pm »
hello Albert ;  yes it seems you did not read the article well.  Yes it was a thank you ceremony.  And as creative native said it looks like it was to pay the rent on private property. Sounds  like a gift to me. Hot showers and two nites on his grounds.  As far as being able to buy ice and wood and not drive miles for them is a very nice  amenity. Have you never been to a sundance and made the medicine man or sundance chief an offering or give an offering to the kitchen in any way??? Sounds like a person who likes to take advantage of others to me!!!!!   But please notice that we are talking about a sundance and a thank ceremony which are 2 differant ceremonies here.

Offline pink bear

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Re: Steve McCullough
« Reply #137 on: October 04, 2008, 04:40:55 pm »
albert: you say you have done all you can but how can we believe your words?  You say steve is trying to buy a center in Ohio I do not believe you have done your research . Before you speak you need to know you are speaking the truth and have the facts.  My suggestion is to try again before you put words to the world.

Offline rwaimin

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Re: Steve McCullough
« Reply #138 on: October 04, 2008, 10:07:28 pm »
albert: you say you have done all you can but how can we believe your words?  You say steve is trying to buy a center in Ohio I do not believe you have done your research . Before you speak you need to know you are speaking the truth and have the facts.  My suggestion is to try again before you put words to the world.

Pink Bear is that your real name or some made up name you think sounds cool to all the other twinks. Steve sent out an email to you and all his "sundance" people stating that if you all can help the center then you can all take it over as well. How is this helping, We will bail them out but they are going to give us control. That is not helping, that is kicking someone while they are down. Understand that no matter how much you want to believe MR. McCullough is the way and the truth then maybe you should go back and read interviews that he has given, places he has spoken. First he is Shawnee now he is Lakota, hey next year he might be Cheyenne. Understand this and listen carefully when the time comes and all is said and done, that "sundance" tree of yours is gonna come down and when it does ain't no one gonna yell "Timber".
In another post you ask if I have ever been to a sundance, well let me tell you this. Not only have I been to sundance, I have danced. I was gifted pipestone from the actually quarries by Chief Harry Charger and Dennis Banks. I have given my blood, my flesh and my tears to the Sundance. I have always brought my own food and more to share with those who have none. I have traveled many miles to pick one up who was not able to get their way there. I have been to Sundance where the only people dancing were true Native People, no white faces. Tell me what you have done, tell us who have you helped besides those at "YOUR SUNDANCE", tell me have you given flesh, blood, tears and your life for the people.
BTW I am sorry for putting Ohio it is in Kentucky.   

Offline educatedindian

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Re: Steve McCullough
« Reply #139 on: October 05, 2008, 01:54:03 am »

In reality that's kind of assumptive to think that the site being down has anything to do with what the people say here isn't it? Just trying to keep it real.
[/quote

Do a search and you'll find many times that frauds and exploiters like McCullough often alter or even drop entirely their websites after being exposed publicly, to hide their tracks, protect their profits, or avoid accountability.

Or you don't even have to search much. You could look at the recent threads on Amylee Schwartz and Suraj Holzwarth.

And actually, you've just been trying to keep making excuses for a fraud whose been proven to lie repeatedly (by the family of the one he falsely claims to have been trained by, Vernal Cross) and whose also been told numerous times by Lakota and others to end his exploitation.

As much as I don't like to use phrases ripped off from Black Hip Hop culture, that is truly "keeping it real."

Offline educatedindian

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Re: Steve McCullough
« Reply #140 on: October 05, 2008, 02:13:04 am »
We have seen absolutely no reason to doubt Albert's word, and plenty of reason to not trust McCullough and his followers' words. Even if they say the sun is shining, check to make sure.

Pink Bear is apparently Jeff Wray, and as he admitted himself earlier, a supporter of McCullough's, involved in maintaining the spiritual exploiter's website. Earlier he tried to register as "White Bear", perhaps an admission of his racial background. So why the change to Pink Bear? Is he now claiming to have a little "red man" in him?

The other possible explanation is amusing. Bear is slang in the gay subculture for fat men, and pink of course..."Not that there's anything wrong with that!" Just with a silly Nuage attempt to take an "Indian" name.

Offline pink bear

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Re: Steve McCullough
« Reply #141 on: October 05, 2008, 05:14:27 pm »
educatedindian: Again the truth was not spoken here..You assumed you were talking to Jeff .....Wrong...You are speaking to his wife of 40 years. As the rest of your comments Well...they were amusing and gave me quit a chuckle. THANK YOU. I did need some laughter for the day. They say it is very healing.      The name white bear was given to me several years ago and until now it was kept private, personal and in my heart only. It was given to me by a very special person who now walks in the spirit world.  As we go thru live we carry several names it may be our birth name, a nick name or a name given to us that we have earned by a act in our lives. It may be wife, mother, or grandmother.  I CARRY MY NAMES PROUDLY

Offline Walks Proud

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Re: Steve McCullough
« Reply #142 on: October 05, 2008, 08:50:26 pm »
Mona Mona Mona. Why don't you tell them the rest of the story.

Yes, while it is two different ceremonies there is a ceremony at Wopila. A Luwampi. And why don't you tell them how many people paid five dollars to get in, what the rent was for the weekend and what Steve's take was for that. Forgetting a couple facts there aren't we? 

Also weren't you all for charging at the healing ceremony also? Isn't your true name "Mona Makes A Buck"?

And why would a white lady that doesn't participate in ceremonies want an indian name?

Offline educatedindian

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Re: Steve McCullough
« Reply #143 on: October 06, 2008, 01:32:49 am »
Mona Wray, everyone:

20Articles/2007/06_07SteveMcCullough.htm
"Mona Wray of Bedford, Ind., is not of Native American descent, but she partakes in many of their spiritual ceremonies. She has taken part in the Sundance ceremony for years. Wray met McCullough years ago at a Native American ceremony."

Mona, the condescending and racist way you lecture NDN people about NDN naming tells us all we need to know about your own low character as one of McCullough's followers.

Apparently your "Indian name" was so very precious and closely guarded you decided to try and use it on a very public internet forum to defend a spiritual exploiter. Instead it made us laugh because it sounds like something a gay fat man would pick as a name. So thanks for giving us all a laugh at your expense.

You're right, the truth has not been told....not by McCullough. His critics have not said a single falsehood.

Apparently even one of McCullough's defenders doesn't think much of you and said so on the fourth page opf this thread.

AskMeFirst:
"I know Mona Wray. She does not sundance or sweat. She is a "hanger on" who just wants to be somebody, but McCullough won't let her do too much because of her attitude. She doesn't even come to the arbor to support at sundance. She stays in her camp and gossips. My guess is that she happened to be at the location of the interview and made herself available to the reporter and told stuff just to get her name in the paper."

Offline Walks Proud

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Re: Steve McCullough
« Reply #144 on: October 06, 2008, 02:31:03 am »
Quote
"Mona Wray of Bedford, Ind., is not of Native American descent, but she partakes in many of their spiritual ceremonies. She has taken part in the Sundance ceremony for years. Wray met McCullough years ago at a Native American ceremony."



She has NOT taken part in the Sundance. She goes to the grounds if that is called taking part.




Quote
AskMeFirst:
"I know Mona Wray. She does not sundance or sweat. She is a "hanger on" who just wants to be somebody, but McCullough won't let her do too much because of her attitude. She doesn't even come to the arbor to support at sundance. She stays in her camp and gossips. My guess is that she happened to be at the location of the interview and made herself available to the reporter and told stuff just to get her name in the paper."

Like it's said. She has a bad attitude and character. She is not liked by many just tolerated.  Does she really not know Steve just keeps her around so he can get his pockets lined and she is the one that wants to be in a position so he allows he to be the gate nazi so that can happen.


I edited because I said some not so nice things that I feel were out of line. I apologize for the way I said that. I could have been nicer.
« Last Edit: October 10, 2008, 02:10:32 am by Walks Proud »

Offline MatoSiWin

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Re: Steve McCullough
« Reply #145 on: October 09, 2008, 04:42:52 pm »
One thing I have noticed is that "friends" of Steve's keep coming on here saying "Have you ever met him and actually talked to him?".

I'd like to address that here.  When someone hears "rumors" about another person, it is absolutely appropriate to go to that person directly to ask them about the rumors and to give them a chance to explain their version of the story, or to explain why people would feel motivated to spread said rumors in the first place (are they jeslous, was it a friendship gone bad, was it a business venture gone bad, etc...).  HOWEVER, when someone is giving interviews, and their own statements are being recorded (audibly and in writing), they are already speaking out on their behalf.  So when evidence comes up contradicting what that person said (or when that person later contradicts himself), such as the widow of the person he claims taught him this and that and gave him rights to this and that saying that it simply is not true, or someone claiming to be of a particular Native American Nation, and the people of that nation saying they don't recognize him as one of their own (or later saying that they are not Native American at all), or claiming to be teaching Lakota tradition and ceremony when the Lakota people as a whole (not just a few scattered individuals here and there who also have questionable standing in the Lakota community) do not recognize him as one of thier own and specifically go further to state that he does NOT have the right to perform or sell THEIR ceremonies, what reason could you have for needing to talk directly to him before forming an opinion that it's just not right?

Take the current political speeches.  It is very easy to find clips of speeches where a candidate says one thing, then find a clip of another speech where the same person says something totally different.  It is not necessary for me to speak to a politician directly to know he/she speaks from both sides of his/her mouth.
 
It's like a family, living together in one house.  If one family member invites you into the house, but then the rest of the family stands up and says you're not welcome there, why stamp your foot and insist that you belong there because the one person said so, when it is obvious that the views of that one person are not shared with the majority in the household?  I'll tell you why.  Because of a false sense of entitlement. 

I watched the news and there were friends of OJ Simpson's on there talking about how gentle and kind he was, how he was the most wonderful guy on earth.  Forgive me if I don't take thier biased words for truth... i heard his voice on the tapes.  I prefer to form my opinion regarding someone based on thier own words and mannerisms, and I don't need personal contact with them to form an opinion, especially when they are out in the limelight giving interviews and making statements.

When my kids are in trouble for something they have done that they know and I know is wrong, there is little point to talking to them about it because all they can do is offer their excuses or explanations as to why they did what they did, and no matter what they say, it doesn't change the fact that what they did is wrong.  Even if they tell me that someone else gave them permission, I'm still going to say, who has the right to give that permission?  ME! 
 
So even when someone says, "Chief So-and-So told me I am allowed to do this"... if the majority of the people to whom that ceremony belongs don't approve, that person should have enough common decency and respect to let it go.

Remember... these ceremonies do not belong to any one individual, and they are for the PEOPLE, so without the support and approval from the PEOPLE, there is nothing.

Offline Defend the Sacred

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Re: Steve McCullough
« Reply #146 on: October 09, 2008, 07:10:46 pm »
Remember... these ceremonies do not belong to any one individual, and they are for the PEOPLE, so without the support and approval from the PEOPLE, there is nothing.

As in the people of the particular culture the ceremonies come from, not just any people, anywhere, from any background. And it's the people of that culture who get to say who is part of their community/family/culture, not outsiders who've misappropriated bits and pieces of it against the wishes of those people.

White people, or those raised by white people, hate to hear there's any place they're not welcome. As soon as anyone sets limits on their offensive, acquisitive behaviour, they love to pick up the mantle of the oppressed and wrap even that around themselves, without any understanding of why the people who are actually oppressed need to protect themselves from the appropriators.

People raised with privilege usually have no understanding of what actual oppression really feels like. They think having their feelings hurt by being told to take their hand out of someone else's cookie jar is somehow equivalent to living in a racist society when you're not a white person. They think you're somehow "oppressing" them when you remind them that the cookie jar and cookies are not theirs, and that they were never invited into the house in the first place.

(Excellent response, btw, MatoSiWin)
« Last Edit: October 09, 2008, 07:14:43 pm by Kathryn NicDh? na »

Offline MatoSiWin

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Re: Steve McCullough
« Reply #147 on: October 09, 2008, 08:53:07 pm »
Thank you Kathryn for such an eloquent clarification/explanation of "The People".  I really like how you explained it, and I agree completely.  Having one's feelings hurt, or being told "No, this is not for you" is no where near the same thing as oppression, yet white people often seem to feel that way.  It all goes back to that entitlement mentality.  Oh, they never learn.
 
And before someone comes on here and starts calling me racist, I don't mean each and every white person, but I am referring to the White culture of taking and claiming everything as theirs.  If that doesn't make sense to you and you still think I am being racist... you're probably one of the people I'm referring to.

Offline MatoSiWin

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Re: Steve McCullough
« Reply #148 on: October 09, 2008, 09:02:13 pm »
One more thing I'd like to add....

I'm a thin-blood (sort-of, depends on whether you consider 1/4 thin or not).... but I can "Pass", meaning most white people thnk I am white because I have fair skin and light eyes, therefore many white people will say things around and in front of me that they wouldn't dare say if my mother were standing there next to me.  This gives me the advantage of knowing what kind of people those around me really are, because they don't have their fake smiles and dumb "we are the world" masks on when I'm around. 

Even today someone was talking to me on the computer about Steve's Sundance, and I could tell they thought I was white when they first started talking to me.  Apparently Steve's "Sundance" is not ending, and is staying right where it is.  This person said there were over 60 people there and they all were peirced.  He said that it is an "All Nation Sun Dance", but the website he showed me (the same one that was down previously) clearly said it was a LOkota ceremony, but was open to all.   He said there were people from all over the world there.  He claimed he was "half Cherokee" but seemed to know nothing about it.  Even after I told him that Cherokee don't Sun Dance, he said he knew but that he wants to learn the Native American ways... as if it's a one size fits all kind of thing.  I asked him why the people from all over the world don't just follow their own cultures and customs.  No real response to that one.
I about lost my lunch, so haad to end the conversation.

Offline Walks Proud

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Re: Steve McCullough
« Reply #149 on: October 10, 2008, 02:16:28 am »
Thank you both to you Mato and Kathryn. You spoke the truth and you did it in a good way. I apologize to all for how I said some things earlier.  When things are spoken so harshly they go unheard and the point is lost.

I do wonder why pink bear (Mona) would call out the website she did when the person running it is supposed to be a friend/family of the sundance circle.

I also tried to read all of Ask Me First's posts and clicked on their profile and it said that he is no longer a member. ??