NAFPS Forum
General => Frauds => Topic started by: Paul123 on December 04, 2009, 10:30:42 am
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Fake Cherokee chief gets fed prison time
By The Associated Press
ERIE, Pa. (AP) – A former Pennsylvania man who called himself a Cherokee Indian “chief” will spend nearly five years in federal prison for a multimillion-dollar investment fraud.
Federal prosecutors say 80-year-old Robert Eugene Cheney, who now lives in Las Vegas, and another man defrauded investors in several states and Canada out of roughly $2 million. The investors were told they were buying into oil exploration ventures that Cheney claimed to control as “Chief Soaring Eagle” with the “Sovereign Cherokee Nation.”
Cheney and his accomplice, instead, spent most of the money on themselves and faked documents to make the deals seem legitimate.
Cheney was prosecuted in Erie where he pleaded guilty in May and was sentenced Tuesday because he lived in nearby Conneaut Lake when the scam ran from 2003 to 2008.
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See it's fakes like this that give the real fakes a bad name. ;)
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See it's fakes like this that give the real fakes a bad name. ;)
A fake is a fake. A fraud is a fraud. They're all the same. Some just end up in jail. As chief of the Sovereign Cherokee Nation, Cheney is no different than the countless other fake Cherokee. The only reason he's going to jail is because of his investment scam. Unfortunately, pretendians aren't prosecuted.
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http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/08102/872345-85.stm
Feds ground Soaring Eagle in $2 million charity scam
Friday, April 11, 2008
By Torsten Ove, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette
In a classic "Seinfeld" episode, George Costanza creates a charity called "The Human Fund" with the slogan: "Money for People."
Robert Eugene Cheney had a charity, too, called HARP -- "Helping All Races of People."
He said it provided funding and services "to the poor throughout the world."
But his enterprise was no more real than George's, according to federal agents, who say he and a partner invented it as part of a scheme to rip off investors in Crawford County and across the country of some $2 million from 2003 through March 2007.
A federal grand jury on Tuesday indicted Mr. Cheney and Joseph Guess on 42 counts of wire fraud, money laundering and other offenses.
Mr. Cheney, 78, who represented to his clients that he was a Cherokee Indian chief, and Mr. Guess, 51, are formerly of Conneaut Lake, Crawford County. Both are due in court April 24.
FBI and IRS agents said Mr. Cheney, who now lives in Las Vegas, and Mr. Guess, who lives in Phoenix, told investors that they were affiliated with HARP and another entity called Eagle Eight Trust, which was supposed to be involved in oil production in Pennsylvania.
According to the indictment, the men offered a quick, guaranteed 100 percent return on money that was invested with them. But they never invested anything and just put it all in the bank for themselves, federal prosecutors said.
As part of the scheme, agents said, Mr. Cheney portrayed himself as the chairman of HARP and said he was known as "Chief Soaring Eagle," a high-ranking official of the "Sovereign Cherokee Nation."
He also said he was married to the sister of a Mexican government official with connections in Central and South America that allowed HARP to enter into "joint ventures" with oil companies and trade in billions of dollars of oil reserves.
Mr. Cheney wasn't always an Indian chief. Sometimes he also called himself "The Commander." For his part, Mr. Guess was "The Director" whose job was to find new investors by e-mail, the Internet and, especially in the Conneaut Lake area, word-of-mouth.
In a related scheme, agents said, Mr. Cheney represented to investors that he was a billionaire oil tycoon in Pennsylvania offering investment opportunities in Eagle Eight Trust and various oil production operations in the state.
In addition to the quick and huge returns, the men promised that the investments were risk-free and secured by "oil production reserve notes," 200,000 barrels of oil, a $62 million Barclays Bank account and other guarantees.
According to the indictment, they produced fake banking and business documents to fool investors, who are identified in the indictment only by their initials.
In reality, the indictment says, the money from investors duped in both schemes ended up in various Cheney bank accounts "for the personal benefit of the defendant and his wife, M.C."
The accounts were in his wife's name, but she has not been charged.
The investigation is continuing.
Every year the IRS sends out warnings about its "Dirty Dozen" scams to either hide income or steal from the unsuspecting, such as phishing schemes, abusive retirement plans and the like.
The agency said Mr. Cheney's machinations fit this year's list, released just last month. No. 11 for 2008 is "misuse of trusts" and No. 12 is "abuse of charitable organizations."
Read more: http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/08102/872345-85.stm#ixzz0YjL7whD8
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See it's fakes like this that give the real fakes a bad name. ;)
pretendians aren't prosecuted.
That might make an interesting test case. What would you charge them with?
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See it's fakes like this that give the real fakes a bad name. ;)
pretendians aren't prosecuted.
That might make an interesting test case. What would you charge them with?
Identity theft and fraud for starters.
Like I said before . . . A fake is a fake. A fraud is a fraud. They're all the same. Some just end up in jail. As chief of the Sovereign Cherokee Nation, Cheney is no different than the countless other fake Cherokee. The only reason he's going to jail is because of his investment scam. Unfortunately, pretendians aren't prosecuted.
If Cheney hadn't gotten busted for the investment racket, he'd still be a free pretendian and no different than all the other fake Cherokee.
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See it's fakes like this that give the real fakes a bad name. ;)
pretendians aren't prosecuted.
That might make an interesting test case. What would you charge them with?
Identity theft and fraud for starters.
Lets hear your brief. Just how would you make a charge like that hold water?
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I agree with Bls.
I think the Cherokee Nation is working on something that would make it a felony if someone claimed to be a Tribal Citizen or a felony for a group to claim to be a Tribe. I think some of the people on the Wannabbee Task Force have something in the works, but I'm not sure exactly what their doing.
Something should also be done to make it illegal for these fakes to do teachngs and workshops in Tax Payer Funded Insititutions such as schools and libraries.
Now if an individual just claims to be Cheorkee or Indian then thats completly different. I don't think no one has the right to tell some one that they can't identify how they want to whether it be a Cherokee or Somoan for that matter.
Also, something also should be done for non carded Indians and legit Historic Tribes not to be affected by all of this. I have a few personal ideas of how this might work and I do know its really comlicated. But something has to be done at this point.
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I agree with Bls.
I think the Cherokee Nation is working on something that would make it a felony if someone claimed to be a Tribal Citizen or a felony for a group to claim to be a Tribe. I think some of the people on the Wannabbee Task Force have something in the works, but I'm not sure exactly what their doing.
Something should also be done to make it illegal for these fakes to do teachngs and workshops in Tax Payer Funded Insititutions such as schools and libraries.
Now if an individual just claims to be Cheorkee or Indian then thats completly different. I don't think no one has the right to tell some one that they can't identify how they want to whether it be a Cherokee or Somoan for that matter.
Also, something also should be done for non carded Indians and legit Historic Tribes not to be affected by all of this. I have a few personal ideas of how this might work and I do know its really comlicated. But something has to be done at this point.
A few points about the first thing you said:
1: If someone claimed to be a Citizen of the CNO, the worst thing that they could be charged with would be lying. And unless your lying to a Judge or Congress, that's not illegal.
2: If they claimed to be some lost/split/forgotten/didn't go/hidden tribe and not part of the CNO, then the burden of proof would be to prove that their not. That would be as hard to do as it would be for them to prove that they were. And if they could prove that just one or two of them were direct descendants of any one of the 1200ish people that the CNO can't account for from the Trail of Tears, then the rest would be just debating their membership requirements. And of course as a tribe, that would be their sovereign right.
3: You know full well that the CNO couldn't get legislation passed right now that would make it illegal to spit on the sidewalk, not until well after the freeman issue is forgotten. (years after)
Aside from this, what are your ideas?
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Paul,
The Freedmens issue will not go away, nor should it. I think that its politically naive to believe that the CNO will maintain its current status without making significant changes. The fact that the legitimacy of many nation will now be challenged will have an impact on the status of many nations.
As long as black people perceive the freedmens issue to be based on race, as its relates to discrimination against people based on their status as slaves i.e. black people, the CBC will carry out its mandate to black voters. Yes race and justice are issues that won't disappear particularly since Obama's election.
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If someone claimed to be a Citizen of the CNO, the worst thing that they could be charged with would be lying. (http://If someone claimed to be a Citizen of the CNO, the worst thing that they could be charged with would be lying.)
Well, if the say they are a citizen of the CN and use that "status" for example to promote themselves by doing lectures in the University of Georgia on Cherokee History or culture, then that would probably be something done illegal under the act. On the other hand, if you just have some guy off the street, at a Wannabe Powow, or the local shoping mall, etc, say he is a citizen of the CN, then that would be different. He'd just be a lier like you say. The key is if they are using their status to either promote themselves financially/politically/ or their careers.
There's a difference between someone saying they are a citizen of the Cheorkee Nation, Eastern Band, or UKB, and someone who says they are "Cherokee". Although I and other Cherokees might be skeptical of someone's status, in my opinion, no one can tell someone how they can and can't idenify.
If they claimed to be some lost/split/forgotten/didn't go/hidden tribe and not part of the CNO, then the burden of proof would be to prove that their not. (http://If they claimed to be some lost/split/forgotten/didn't go/hidden tribe and not part of the CNO, then the burden of proof would be to prove that their not.)
Paul, I think this was pretty much covered in the Echota Cherokee Thread. ( Nobody convinced you in 12 + pages of why this argument doesn't work there)
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Paul,
I don't know if you ever heard of Ward Churchill. He was a college profesor who got hired at the University of Colorado's Ethnic Studies Department under affirmative action policies because of his status as a "Cherokee"/Indian. Later he could not verify his claims as a Cherokee. He wasn't enrolled in any of the 3 Federally Recognized Cherkoee Tribes nor could he prove his heritage by "other means". In other words he advanced his career at least in part by his "Indian Status". The act would probably pertain to cases such as this. If you are getting hired and doing lectures based on your Indian/Cherokee Status, you should be able to prove it
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EN0ZxytJ1G4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EN0ZxytJ1G4)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x2GdMqYPwF4&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x2GdMqYPwF4&feature=related)
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BW,
Yes anyone that pads their resume is subject to be fired in the work a day world. But they are being fired for lying, not for impersonating an NDN. no difference than claiming to have an MBA. even if you know the work better than anyone else, your still fired.
You said that after 12+ pages that I still don't get it. I understand everything you said, (and agreed with most). It's just that after 12+ pages you still don't know the difference between the right thing and the legal thing. You said that it should be a felony to impersonate an NDN. That clearly is in the realm of legal not ethical. I said that it would be a good "Test Case". meaning IN COURT. Then I ask for your "BRIEF", (another legal thingy). The right thing has nothing to do with court. It is all about what is legal. To test this case you would have to sue someone for fraud and/or identity theft. When they got to court the "burden of proof" WOULD be on you, not them. Innocent until PROVEN guilty. That was my whole point over there in those other 12 pages. The Echota's have already proven (in legal terms) that they are a Tribe. If you (or the CNO) say other wise, then it is up to you to prove it. Again we are talking about legal, not ethical, as it was you that proposed charging them for violating the law.
In pre-civil war times it was legal to own slaves, that didn't make it right. It was changed by changing the laws. If on the other hand someone had taken a slave owner to court before those laws had been changed they wouldn't have stood a chance by pointing out to the Judge that it was ethically wrong to own slaves. My point is that I ask for your legal brief on how to word these new laws. Not to rehash the ethics of what is now. It is what it is.
Just because I keep pointing out to you what IS, doesn't mean that I may not agree with you on what SHOULD BE. But If you can't convince me, How you gonna convince Congress. (Their all a bunch of lawyers).
Wanta try again?
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If the representation is made with the intent to defraud, then it is criminal as part of the fraud.
Let us say for example that you have a person representing himself to be NDN, when he is not, and selling services (say sweats) as NDN services. Then that is equivalent to anyone selling goods as NDN manufacture when they are not, which is criminal under the Crafts Act.
General fraud statutes may apply.
I hope that this fellow is just the first to be prosecuted. There are others...
Perhaps this marks a new effort by Obama's appointees to BIA, DoJ, etc.
We'll see...
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If the representation is made with the intent to defraud, then it is criminal as part of the fraud.
Let us say for example that you have a person representing himself to be NDN, when he is not, and selling services (say sweats) as NDN services. Then that is equivalent to anyone selling goods as NDN manufacture when they are not, which is criminal under the Crafts Act.
General fraud statutes may apply.
I hope that this fellow is just the first to be prosecuted. There are others...
Perhaps this marks a new effort by Obama's appointees to BIA, DoJ, etc.
We'll see...
As for selling a sweat, I don't think that as it is written now the Crafts Act would apply as it is set to govern "Goods" not "Services". but perhaps it could be tried.
Of course there are laws on the books about fraud as you pointed out above. As it should be.
I'm sure that “Chief Soaring Eagle” will soon be known as “Chief Caged Eagle” well for the next 5 years anyway.
I don't understand why James Arthur Ray isn't in jail.
But it seems that their are some that would wish to charge anyone that claims to be NDN with fraud or something. That is what I think would be a tough row to ho. It has started to sound like a witch hunt. The internet is full of people that wish so. It starts here with discussions like this. But where would it end? We don't have enough jails to put everyone in that some people say should be in jail. We don't have enough jails for the hard core offenders now. but,,,
So who do you all want in jail?
The frauds that kill people like James Arthur Ray? Sure!
The frauds that sell memberships on the internet to wannabes? Probability.
The Chief and Counsel members of unrecognized tribes? I'd bet you'd say yes too,,,
The State recognized Tribes? Another yes?
What about their members? It'll come to that.
Heritage clubs? well their OK,,, but only if they choose a P.C. name
Box checkers? Go ahead, you know that some here would say yes their frauds too.
Well did I miss anyone?
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If the representation is made with the intent to defraud, then it is criminal as part of the fraud.
Let us say for example that you have a person representing himself to be NDN, when he is not, and selling services (say sweats) as NDN services. Then that is equivalent to anyone selling goods as NDN manufacture when they are not, which is criminal under the Crafts Act.
General fraud statutes may apply.
I hope that this fellow is just the first to be prosecuted. There are others...
Perhaps this marks a new effort by Obama's appointees to BIA, DoJ, etc.
We'll see...
As for selling a sweat, I don't think that as it is written now the Crafts Act would apply as it is set to govern "Goods" not "Services". but perhaps it could be tried.
Of course there are laws on the books about fraud as you pointed out above. As it should be.
I'm sure that “Chief Soaring Eagle” will soon be known as “Chief Caged Eagle” well for the next 5 years anyway.
I don't understand why James Arthur Ray isn't in jail.
But it seems that their are some that would wish to charge anyone that claims to be NDN with fraud or something. That is what I think would be a tough row to ho. It has started to sound like a witch hunt. The internet is full of people that wish so. It starts here with discussions like this. But where would it end? We don't have enough jails to put everyone in that some people say should be in jail. We don't have enough jails for the hard core offenders now. but,,,
So who do you all want in jail?
The frauds that kill people like James Arthur Ray? Sure!
The frauds that sell memberships on the internet to wannabes? Probability.
The Chief and Counsel members of unrecognized tribes? I'd bet you'd say yes too,,,
The State recognized Tribes? Another yes?
What about their members? It'll come to that.
Heritage clubs? well their OK,,, but only if they choose a P.C. name
Box checkers? Go ahead, you know that some here would say yes their frauds too.
Well did I miss anyone?
Edit:
I did understand and agree with BW that an individual has a right to identify any way they wish without fear of harm. And that there are some historic Tribes also.
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The Echota's have already proven (in legal terms) that they are a Tribe. If you (or the CNO) say other wise, then it is up to you to prove it. Again we are talking about legal, not ethical, as it was you that proposed charging them for violating the law.
Paul, I'm not so sure State Recognition of Indian Tribes is legal under Federal Law. As pointed out in the US Constitution, only Congress has the right to have relationships with Indian Tribes. This might be a test case here. Maybe even something that could possibly go to the Supreme Court.
As for selling a sweat, I don't think that as it is written now the Crafts Act would apply as it is set to govern "Goods" not "Services". but perhaps it could be tried.
I beleive your right. Also, musicians don't fall under this catagory. They should though.
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Would this not apply US constitution Amendment X
The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states respectively, or to the people. "LOM"
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There is nothing in the US Constitution about recognition of Indian tribes except references to treaties with foriegn nations. States powers are covered by the tenth amendment also called the "elastic clause".
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Don Naccona said
There is nothing in the US Constitution about recognition of Indian tribes except references to treaties with foriegn nations. States powers are covered by the tenth amendment also called the "elastic clause".
The United States Supreme Court has stated in this regard that:
…the Constitution grants Congress broad general powers to legislate in respect to Indian tribes, powers that we have consistently
described as “plenary and exclusive,” e.g., Washington v. Confederated Bands and Tribes of Yakima Nation, 439
U.S. 463, 470-471 (1979); Negonsott v. Samuels, 507 U.S. 99, 103 (1993); see Wheeler, 435 U.S. [313] at 323; see also W.
Canby, American Indian Law 2 (3d ed. 1998).
The “...central function of the Indian Commerce Clause, is to provide Congress with plenary power to legislate in the
field of Indian affairs.” Cotton Petroleum Corp. v. New Mexico, 490 U.S. 163, 192 (1989); see also, e.g., Ramah Navajo
School Bd., Inc. v. Bureau of Revenue of N.M., 458 U.S. 832, 837 (1982) (“broad power” under the Indian Commerce
Clause); White Mountain Apache Tribe v. Bracker, 448 U.S. 136, 142 (1980) (same, and citing Wheeler, supra, at 322-323).
• The “Treaty Clause” states that [The President] shall have Power, by and with the Advice and
Consent of the Senate, to make Treaties. . .” United States Constitution, Article II, § 2, cl. 2.
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Article I, Section 8, Clause 3:
“ [The Congress shall have power] To regulate commerce with foreign nations, and among the several states, and with the Indian tribes; ”
http://www.usconstitution.net/const.html (http://www.usconstitution.net/const.html)
http://tribalrecognition.cherokee.org/LinkClick.aspx?fileticket=RWDAY9hHulM%3D&tabid=106 (http://tribalrecognition.cherokee.org/LinkClick.aspx?fileticket=RWDAY9hHulM%3D&tabid=106)
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If the representation is made with the intent to defraud, then it is criminal as part of the fraud.
Let us say for example that you have a person representing himself to be NDN, when he is not, and selling services (say sweats) as NDN services. Then that is equivalent to anyone selling goods as NDN manufacture when they are not, which is criminal under the Crafts Act.
General fraud statutes may apply.
I hope that this fellow is just the first to be prosecuted. There are others...
Perhaps this marks a new effort by Obama's appointees to BIA, DoJ, etc.
We'll see...
As for selling a sweat, I don't think that as it is written now the Crafts Act would apply as it is set to govern "Goods" not "Services". But perhaps it could be tried.
Of course there are laws on the books about fraud as you pointed out above. As it should be.
Yes, there are. For Mr. Burrows and his associates, either NAGPRA or the Crafts Act should apply.
I'm sure that “Chief Soaring Eagle” will soon be known as “Chief Caged Eagle” well for the next 5 years anyway.
I don't understand why James Arthur Ray isn't in jail.
Not yet, anyway. But with the new appointees, perhaps there is hope... Call it the audacity of hope.
But it seems that there are some who would wish to charge anyone that claims to be NDN with fraud or something. That is what I think would be a tough row to ho. It has started to sound like a witch hunt. The internet is full of people that wish so. It starts here with discussions like this. But where would it end? We don't have enough jails to put everyone in that some people say should be in jail. We don't have enough jails for the hard core offenders now. but,,,
So who do you all want in jail?
The frauds that kill people like James Arthur Ray? Sure!
The frauds that sell memberships on the internet to wannabes? Probably.
Agree.
The Chief and Counsel members of unrecognized tribes? I'd bet you'd say yes too,,,
A tough one, there.
The State recognized Tribes? Another yes?
What about their members? It'll come to that.
No, but these issues are just part of the questions which I set out before, for which I have no answers, and the answers to which are not mine to give.
Heritage clubs? Well, they're OK,,, but only if they choose a P.C. name
Would "Ohio Native Ancestry Association" be an acceptable name, in your opinion? How about "[state] Cherokee Ancestry Association", or ""[state] Shawnee Ancestry Association"?
Box checkers? Go ahead, you know that some here would say yes their frauds too.
I guess that would depend on the box.
Well did I miss anyone?
Yes. Jerry Pope.
[/quote]
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E.P. Grondine,
Thanks for your reply. If the answers were yours to give what would they be?
et al,,
Anyone else care to reply
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It doesn't have to be jail. Sometimes a really high fine does the job. And maybe a bright red stamp on the forehead that says FRAUD. :)