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NAFPS Archives => Archive No. 1 => Topic started by: Moma_porcupine on November 21, 2009, 10:52:53 pm

Title: RESOLVED, NO LONGER A MATTER OF CONCERN: Chief Ardy & the 3 Thumbs First Nation
Post by: Moma_porcupine on November 21, 2009, 10:52:53 pm
I see someone posting under the name Clan mother in a thread concerning protection of Mi'kmaq burial grounds and the return of indigenous remains to their people and homelands .

http://www.newagefraud.org/smf/index.php?topic=2435.0

( info found in this thread will be refered to as source #1 below)

This person is signing their posts with  

Quote
Chief Ardy Born With 3 Thumbs
Alkonquian Mi'kmaq Clan Mother
Sissiboo, Kespoogwitunak, Mi'kma'ki

I was curious about who this person is and what i found through google searches was a bit confusing...


Is there more than one Chief Ardy Born With 3 Thumbs?

This obituary I found says Chief Ardy is or was named Carl - which is not a name i would expect a clan mother to have ... Carl Trask is also said to be a son.

http://ngb.chebucto.org/Newspaper-Obits/halifax-herald-2003-dec.shtml

Quote
TRASK, Charles Walter
Tuesday, December 30, 2003     The Halifax Herald Limited
TRASK, Charles Walter - 76, Bridgetown, formerly of Middleton, passed on peacefully into the Spirit World, Sunday, December 28, 2003, in Soldiers Memorial Hospital, Middleton. Born in Grand Falls, NL, November 8, 1927, he was a son of the late Charles (Baker) Trask (Elliston, NL) and Amelia Ann (Pelley) Trask (Exploits Island, NL). Educated in Grand Falls, Charlie retired to Middleton in 1976 after a successful business career in Newfoundland and Labrador. Charlie had been a resident of Mountain Lea Lodge, Bridgetown, for the past two years. He served with the Royal Newfoundland Engineers Infantry Division during the Korean War. He also served on various organizations in Newfoundland and was a life member of the Benevolent and Protective Order of Elks, a member of the Royal Canadian Legion and a lifelong, devoted member of the Liberal Party of Canada.

Charlie shall be remembered for not only sharing with his people, but for his love for animals as well. He is survived by his former wife, Mary Francis Goodyear, Newfoundland; sons, Christopher Paul, Margaretsville; Carl Peter (Chief Ardy born with 3 thumbs), Sissiboo, Digby Co.; Charles Jr., Oshawa, Ont.; daughter, Constance Patricia, Nova Scotia; brother, William Trask, Cannings Cove, NL; sister, Edna Bradley, Jamaica and Florida; sister-in-law, Loretta Trask, Grand Falls, NL; Marie (Melvin) Ploughman, Windsor, NL; grandchildren, Bronwen, Carmen, Carson, Kelina Megan, Zachary, Harold, Jared, Samantha and Max Trask; nephew, Roy Trask, Toronto; also loyal friend and colleague, Floyd Benjamin, Lawrencetown. Charlie was predeceased by son, Craig Patrick; brothers, Heber and Ralph; sister, Gertrude Hawley. No flowers as per Charlie's request. Donations to the Micmac Benevolent Society, P.O. Box 1738, Truro, NS, B2N 5Z5. Cremation has taken place. Private memorial will be held in memory of the man who got things done, for Charlie will be remembered as the "chief of all chiefs!" as he provided generously for his people. On-line condolences to: roopfh@ns.sympatico.ca


The above obituary also seems to say , Chief Ardy born with 3 thumbs's Mom is or was Mary Francis Goodyear, of Newfoundland.

In the statement in Reply #17 from source #1 ,Clan Mother who seems to be claiming to be Chief Ardy, says her mother's name is Ivy Landry maiden named Ivy Toney.

Clanmother reply 17 source #1
Quote
The picture displays, from left to right, my daughter - Bronwen 1986,  Ardy 1951, my Mother - Ivy Landry nee Toney 1924

Clanmother reply 17 source #1
Quote
My Mother's father was Joe Toney

But in the genealogical query below, someone named Ardy , of Sissiboo with the email 3 thumbs says their grandmother was Mildred J Laundry of NS and their maiden name was Holden not Toney.

http://www.yarmouth.org/s-book99.htm
Quote
Date: 12/10/2005
Name: Ardy
Location: Sissiboo, Weymouth NS
E-Mail: 3.thumbs@ns.sympatico.ca

Comments: I like your website. Very nice.  Am looking for information about my Grandmother, Mildred J. Landry born in Yarmouth Married Daniel Landry also known as Danny. Mildred was a Holden before she married.  She had a brother Barney Holden. Anyone having any information, please contact me.
This is a bit confusing...

If Ardy's mother is Ivy Landry and Ivy's mother was Mildred Holden who married Danny Laundry, Ardy's mother's maiden name would be Laundry not Toney.  

If Milderd Holden and Danny Landry were Ardy's grandparents on her father's side, then her fathers surname name would be Landry, not Trask, meaning Clan mother's family appears to be a different family than the Chief Ardy born with Three Thumbs , mentioned in the obituary as being the son of Charles Trask.

I also found this

http://mytwobeadsworth.com/Heros2.html

Quote
ARDY BORN WITH 3 THUMBS - Hereditary Mi'kmaq Chief

A true Mi'kmaq woman, Ardy was born in 1951 at Mi'kma'ki

to a Metis and a Mi'kmaq woman. Displaced by the Indian Act, Ardy has seen her Mother and Grandmother pushed off of their land.
(con...)

Quote
Ardy stems from a bloodline of Hereditary Chiefs and asserted her right to Chieftaincy in the late 1900 s when she could not attain respect and assistance from the Indian Act Chiefs.

and doing a search on the email used to place the genealogical query brings up this

Quote
3.thumbs @ ns.sympatico.ca. 3 Thumbs First Nation is located in the Heart of Annapolis Valley. We specialize in Tipi covers, traditional Mi'kmaq creations ...
www.encana.com/operations/offshore/deeppanuke/pdfs/.../p006629.pdf

I am a bit confused about who these people are?

Who are the hereditary Chiefs Ardy is said to descend from ?

I see where Charles Trask is reffered to as a Chief, and as associated with the Mi'kmaq people.... If he served as a hereditary Chief, where were his people located geographically?

Clan Mother , could you explain a bit about the history of this Born with three Thumbs First Nation?

What people do you serve as Chief, and how did you recieve this title?

I'm also a bit confused about who you are ... What I found doing google seaches doesn't seem to fit together at all .

Was Charles Trask your father?

How could your grandfathers be named both Danny Landry and Joe Toney, if your father was Charles Trask ?

If your father isn't Charles Trask ,  who is Carl Peter Trask? Why is Carl Trask said to be Chief Ardy Born With 3 Thumbs, and why are you using this name yourself?

If your mothers parents were named Landry and Holden why do you claim her maiden name was Toney?

Sorry to be suspisious, but when things don't seem to fit together, I think it's important to ask for clarification. Unfortunantely it seems many people try and use a show of activism as a prop in creating a false identity for themselves.

I don't mean to be rude, but asking questions is the only way to verify peoples identity and the legitimacy of their claims.

Hopefully Clan Mother can explain how all this fits together....

Title: 1
Post by: clanmother on November 21, 2009, 11:34:08 pm
 1
Title: 1
Post by: clanmother on November 21, 2009, 11:54:14 pm
1

Title: Re: Chief Ardy & the 3 Thumbs First Nation
Post by: critter - a white non-ndn person on November 22, 2009, 12:32:22 am
Ok, not to be really stupid or anything, but apparently a chief can be a woman..  didn't know that.  Not surprising, there is much I don't know.

Ardy 3 thumbs, no disrespect, but I find it a sad statement to say Indians do not have friends.  It is just sad. 

I wish you well, and have nothing but respect for your fight, and your warrior spirit.  May you continue to stand strong.. and win! 



Title: 1
Post by: clanmother on November 22, 2009, 12:36:29 am
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Title: Re: Chief Ardy & the 3 Thumbs First Nation
Post by: Moma_porcupine on November 22, 2009, 01:09:27 am
Clan mother
Quote
I guess your genealogical survey of me only grants me one grandmother.  The one you mention was a Holden from Yarmouth NS, who married a Landry.  You can find this at www.novascotiagenealogy.com  that is my PATERNAL LINE.  The proven Landry line connects to the treaty chief Mius.

From reply 17 source#1
clan mother
Quote
my Mother - Ivy Landry nee Toney

So your father's surname and your mothers surname before she was married were both Landry?

That is certainly possible. 

Clan mother
Quote
I will leave you to determine who my mother is and who her family descends from. I have no Trask Blood, nor have I ever seen that written anywhere.

But if that is true , who is Charles Trask with a son named Chief Ardy Born with Three Thumbs also of Sissiboo NS?  As you claim to have been born with 3 thumbs this seems to be quite a coincidence !

http://www.newagefraud.org/smf/index.php?topic=2435.15

Reply #20
Clan mother source #1
Quote
As for your comments about Trask - May I suggest you read this Treaty.

Why did you post a 1685 Treaty with the name of Trask in it in the other thread- in reply to my questions about your family ? If these are no relations of yours how is that Treaty even relevent?

As for your claim that your Landry line connects back to a Mi'kmaq ancestor through a marriage with the Muise family , unless that is the part of the Muise family that married back into the Mi'kmaq community , this could be a very distant ancestor- Many of the Acadian Miuse families descend from mixed blood children born in the 1680's who married back into the French community.

Clan mother   
Quote
The RCMP and the Judicial System and the Government can confirm for you the legitimacy of my claims as to being representative of myself and my Treaty Heirs

Interesting choice of references.

Clan Mother
Quote
You must be an INAC apple

With your references, why would you need to ask ? ..... LOL

Clan Mother
Quote
I must ask the question: Are you just trying to deflect investigation from yourself.  I request that you provide proof of your identity?

Oh I really am a Porcupine. The real deal.

Of course whether or not either of us is actually sane doesn't really matter one way or the other, except if I ever begin claiming to be Chief Moma Porcupine , and a representitve of the Porcupine First Nation, you would be wise to ask some more questions... A lot more questions...
Title: Re: Chief Ardy & the 3 Thumbs First Nation
Post by: critter - a white non-ndn person on November 22, 2009, 01:22:29 am
Thanks.  :)   I would like upwards of 1,000 moons.. although, I'm never sure I'll still be here in the next day.  

The last few years have taken their toll on me..  

I'm plenty naive with many things..  it was once said to me that I have the child's heart..
With that, other than whacko's whose only respect is for dollars..  it's difficult for me to understand why people, good people in general, don't or wouldn't have respect for you, a Mi'kmaq Woman, or for anyone else who is trying to live a good way, or fighting in a good cause.  

Many 1,000's of moons may you see as well!!  :)


Title: 1
Post by: clanmother on November 22, 2009, 01:25:17 am
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Title: 1
Post by: clanmother on November 22, 2009, 01:28:18 am
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Title: Re: Chief Ardy & the 3 Thumbs First Nation
Post by: critter - a white non-ndn person on November 22, 2009, 01:34:03 am
Of course whether or not either of us is actually sane doesn't really matter one way or the other, except if I ever begin claiming to be Chief Moma Porcupine , and a representitve of the Porcupine First Nation, you would be wise to ask some more questions... A lot more questions...

It will be interesting to see where this all leads, and where it comes out at the end.. :)  I agree no one should just be taken at face value on the internet..  so we shall see what comes...  
Title: Re: Chief Ardy & the 3 Thumbs First Nation
Post by: bls926 on November 22, 2009, 01:37:41 am
So, there are two people with the name Ardy Born with 3 Thumbs? One female who is still living and one male who has passed on? And they are/were both Hereditary Chiefs of the Mi'kmaq people?

Having a hard time believing that. Unless one was named for the other, the probability is somewhere between slim and none at all. Since clanmother denies any relation to Trask . . . ????
Title: Re: Chief Ardy & the 3 Thumbs First Nation
Post by: Moma_porcupine on November 22, 2009, 01:40:38 am
Quote
moma_ porcupine - it is either you are stupid or just a plain old fashion trouble maker. Legend has it that it is Bad Medicine to harass & abuse a Mi'kmaq Woman.

I'm sorry, what is it I said that you are considering harrassment and abuse? Could you quote that , along with the reply # and a link to the thread?

In my opinion, I have asked perfectly reasonable questions . All of which you side stepped. If you feel harrassed by being expected to be responsible for explaining the factual basis of your claim to be a Chief of a First Nation, that is your own perception, not anyone actually harrassing or abusing you.

me in my first post in this thread
Quote
Clan Mother , could you explain a bit about the history of this Born with three Thumbs First Nation?

Clan mother in reply #1
Quote
I was born in a Winter storm 1951 with 3 thumbs ...

So it sounds like the 3 Thumbs First Nation never existed until you were born and created it.

The whole meaning of the words First Nation reffers to the fact these collectively maintained identities were in existence as a Nation and as owners of Aboriginal Title, before other Nations arrived making claims to this continents resources.   

So the 3 thumbs First Nation is not a real First Nations.

When the general public has such a hard time recognizing and respecting Aboriginal Title and the meaning of the words 'First Nations", don't you feel you are contributing to the general public confusion and a disrespectful attitude by naming a group which appears to be your own creation, the 3 Thumbs First Nation?

Don't you feel your personal use of the term "First Nation" undermines and devalues the whole meaning of these words?

bls926
Quote
So, there are two people with the name Ardy Born with 3 Thumbs? One female who is still living and one male who has passed on? And they are/were both Hereditary Chiefs of the Mi'kmaq people?

Having a hard time believing that. Unless one was named for the other, the probability is somewhere between slim and none at all. Since clanmother denies any relation to Trask . . . ????

Um yeah... I am wondering about that too...
Title: Re: Chief Ardy & the 3 Thumbs First Nation
Post by: critter - a white non-ndn person on November 22, 2009, 01:40:46 am
Critter, - Mother Earth is millions of years old - 50 or 75 years is not a long time to walk Her ... but, you are assured to see further - over 80. - TTT

Oh no.  Only one person ever in my life gave a prediction of my life that partially came to be..  and she held my hands..  no one ever..  ever ..  even the woman who claimed as a 'holy' person was ever correct...  

To say what you have said, will most likely mean my early death.  So.. I choose to not take it seriously..  no offense, just every time anyone's made a prediction in my life.. it's been wrong..  never to be.. or the opposite.  

I choose to live as simply as possible.. even with a simple mind.. and mostly with a simple heart.  My spirit and being and body and heart are in fragile state after the last year..  I just cannot take such words.. and so.. with no offense meant, I have to refuse your words of my life..  thank you.. and no disrespect meant..  
Title: Re: Chief Ardy & the 3 Thumbs First Nation
Post by: bls926 on November 22, 2009, 01:51:44 am
Critter, I wouldn't worry about it too much. Do you think clanmother can really predict the future? Wow . . . an Hereditary Chief and a fortuneteller! 
Title: Re: Chief Ardy & the 3 Thumbs First Nation
Post by: critter - a white non-ndn person on November 22, 2009, 01:53:26 am
So, there are two people with the name Ardy Born with 3 Thumbs? One female who is still living and one male who has passed on? And they are/were both Hereditary Chiefs of the Mi'kmaq people?

Having a hard time believing that. Unless one was named for the other, the probability is somewhere between slim and none at all. Since clanmother denies any relation to Trask . . . ????

I'm confused too.  I'm glad moma_porcupine is asking for clarity.. and I am hoping clan mother will bring it with response..  

Either way, it appears clan mother is fighting for something good..  it will be sad if she is mis representing in one way or another.. this or that..  I am hoping not..   ....  
Title: Re: Chief Ardy & the 3 Thumbs First Nation
Post by: critter - a white non-ndn person on November 22, 2009, 01:55:29 am
Critter, I wouldn't worry about it too much. Do you think clanmother can really predict the future? Wow . . . an Hereditary Chief and a fortuneteller! 

Well, I have no clue... so I cannot say.  She stated she does fortune telling.. 

I just don't want anyone trying to tell me my future this or that.. 
Title: 1
Post by: clanmother on November 22, 2009, 03:22:51 am
1
Title: Re: Chief Ardy & the 3 Thumbs First Nation
Post by: earthw7 on November 22, 2009, 04:20:20 am
Not sure what this is all about but
this person's life is no different than any of us.
I happen to be born and live on the reservation
and I don't have a white name.
Title: Re: Chief Ardy & the 3 Thumbs First Nation
Post by: Moma_porcupine on November 22, 2009, 04:22:04 am
Clan mother
Quote
I started a business one time in the Annapolis Valley, which was called 3 Thumbs First Nation and made Tipi Covers and Indian Crafts and sold tobacco. 

Quote
I shall repeat. I do not claim to be Chief of any First Nation ... it was a business name.

Ok , i'm sorry if I misunderstood what you mean when you refer to yourself as Chief.

So what is the First Nation called that you are serving as Chief? And how did you come to have that title ?

Or do you mean you aren't really a Chief ?

I'm sorry but I don't see why you feel asking questions is disrespectful. Unless something you are saying isn't true.

Title: Re: Chief Ardy & the 3 Thumbs First Nation
Post by: bls926 on November 22, 2009, 04:26:54 am
Quote
TRASK, Charles Walter
Tuesday, December 30, 2003     The Halifax Herald Limited
TRASK, Charles Walter - 76, Bridgetown, formerly of Middleton, passed on peacefully into the Spirit World, Sunday, December 28, 2003, in Soldiers Memorial Hospital, Middleton. Born in Grand Falls, NL, November 8, 1927, he was a son of the late Charles (Baker) Trask (Elliston, NL) and Amelia Ann (Pelley) Trask (Exploits Island, NL). Educated in Grand Falls, Charlie retired to Middleton in 1976 after a successful business career in Newfoundland and Labrador. Charlie had been a resident of Mountain Lea Lodge, Bridgetown, for the past two years. He served with the Royal Newfoundland Engineers Infantry Division during the Korean War. He also served on various organizations in Newfoundland and was a life member of the Benevolent and Protective Order of Elks, a member of the Royal Canadian Legion and a lifelong, devoted member of the Liberal Party of Canada.

Charlie shall be remembered for not only sharing with his people, but for his love for animals as well. He is survived by his former wife, Mary Francis Goodyear, Newfoundland; sons, Christopher Paul, Margaretsville; Carl Peter (Chief Ardy born with 3 thumbs), Sissiboo, Digby Co.; Charles Jr., Oshawa, Ont.; daughter, Constance Patricia, Nova Scotia; brother, William Trask, Cannings Cove, NL; sister, Edna Bradley, Jamaica and Florida; sister-in-law, Loretta Trask, Grand Falls, NL; Marie (Melvin) Ploughman, Windsor, NL; grandchildren, Bronwen, Carmen, Carson, Kelina Megan, Zachary, Harold, Jared, Samantha and Max Trask; nephew, Roy Trask, Toronto; also loyal friend and colleague, Floyd Benjamin, Lawrencetown. Charlie was predeceased by son, Craig Patrick; brothers, Heber and Ralph; sister, Gertrude Hawley. No flowers as per Charlie's request. Donations to the Micmac Benevolent Society, P.O. Box 1738, Truro, NS, B2N 5Z5. Cremation has taken place. Private memorial will be held in memory of the man who got things done, for Charlie will be remembered as the "chief of all chiefs!" as he provided generously for his people. On-line condolences to: roopfh@ns.sympatico.ca


I see where we made the mistake in thinking Carl Trask was Chief Ardy Born with 3 Thumbs. Thought this was saying Carl Peter aka Chief Ardy, when it's actually saying Carl Peter and his wife Chief Ardy.

Clanmother, you could have cleared this up sooner if, instead of saying this in your first reply to Moma's inquiry about who Trask was:

Quote
. . . I will leave you to determine who my mother is and who her family descends from.  I have no Trask Blood, nor have I ever seen that written anywhere. . .

and

Quote
On the 19th of September, Kancamagus alias John Hogkins, came in, together with Bagesson, alias Joseph Traske, and signed this treaty in the presence of Joseph Rayn the Attorney General of the province, all of which may be seen in the treaty itself, which follows:


you'd said this:

Quote
. . . I am not a Trask. My husband, Carl is. His Father, Charles gave me a house. which I still have. . .


See how much cleaner that would have been? Your first reply makes it sound like you have no idea who Trask is, other than there was a Joseph Traske who signed a treaty in 1685. Then, a few hours later, you remember that it's your husband's name and that was your father-in-law's obituary. Strange.
Title: 1
Post by: clanmother on November 22, 2009, 04:40:27 am
1
Title: Re: Chief Ardy & the 3 Thumbs First Nation
Post by: bls926 on November 22, 2009, 04:53:26 am
Oh,... and, ... We grew up eating porcupine & I made a good many quill boxes out of birch bark with my Grand Mother.  The ones from the hardwood lands are tasty, like chicken - and the ones that feed from soft wood aren't fit to eat.  But - I finally figured out, why you are so disgruntled - you haven't had sex in a loonnngggg - time because no one would touch you with a 10 foot pole.  You must be of the softwood variety.  LOL



What is it about Mi'kmaq [sic] women? Do they all think that any questions about who they are should be met with insults and disrespect? Are they all this rude or is it just the ones who post on NAFPS?
Title: 1
Post by: clanmother on November 22, 2009, 05:43:42 am
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Title: 1
Post by: clanmother on November 22, 2009, 05:52:00 am
1
Title: Re: Chief Ardy & the 3 Thumbs First Nation
Post by: Moma_porcupine on November 22, 2009, 06:08:41 am
The way that obituary was worded was really confusing, -  but with that explained and some further research , I can see where the genealogy now mostly makes sense.


http://www.archive.org/stream/beothukmicmac00spec/beothukmicmac00spec_djvu.txt

http://www.downhomekitchen.com/posts.php?id=16626

http://www.gogaspe.com/en/genbb/

http://genforum.genealogy.com/rancourt/messages/172.html

http://genforum.genealogy.com/fox/messages/7950.html


I apologize for misunderstanding this part of Clan mother's claims. I don't know if this is all correct information, but with the misunderstanding explained I don't see any reason to think it isn't. At least not tonight. 

Quote
All other status Indians have a Chief so I am my own.

Ok. Thanks for explaining how you see that. I'm not sure I agree with you calling yourself a Chief, while publicly cutting down the Mi'kmaq leaders who are recognized by the canadian government, and that you seem to repeatedly suggest they are all corrupt, but if you are Mi'kmaq you probably know a lot more than i do, and you certainly have a right to your opinion.

Quote
At no time did I claim to be Carl Trask. Once again, you mis-interpreted the obituary. Your mistake - you assumed I was Carl Trask. You never asked me if I was Carl Trask?

Er - Actually I didn't see how you could be Carl Trask. Carl being a mans name and you being a Clan mother... i thought I did repeatedly ask how this could be possible in my first post- but I guess what was confusing me wasn't clear to you.

Quote
Hire an assistant. lol.
Instead of a porcupine lover who won't eat me ? Oh gee ....I'm not sure... Do I have to choose?   :'(
Title: 1
Post by: clanmother on November 22, 2009, 06:37:06 am
1
Title: Re: Chief Ardy & the 3 Thumbs First Nation
Post by: NDN_Outlaw on November 22, 2009, 06:42:57 am
I can identify very strongly with the suffering many have experienced in our country (Canada). Outrage is probably the healthiest response to oppression. You are standing up to it and you have not given up but there is something else very disturbing to me. You mention three thumbs. I have seen this before and it is most often an indicator of a child born of incest. I don't say this to degrade you. You are a survivor and for that you stand tall.
Title: 1
Post by: clanmother on November 22, 2009, 07:12:45 am
1
Title: Re: Chief Ardy & the 3 Thumbs First Nation
Post by: bls926 on November 22, 2009, 02:31:35 pm
bls926 - I am new to this site. I came to assist someone elses investigation and I was personally attacked myself. I did not intend on going to other forums, but, this visit was a call of duty. My natural instinct activated my defence mechanism. A legal brief has been written on it, called: What colour is the reasonable man? Meaning what may be reasonable to one culture may be totally unreasonable to another - vice versa. I apologize if I came off harsh & gruff. Thanks for reminding me. Hard life! - I owe you one. lol. All my respect.

Ardy, you weren't attacked. People wondered who you were and asked for clarification. Yes, you did become defensive, which only made us wonder all the more. Everyone who comes to NAFPS supposedly "in a good way" is not who they say they are. We've been fooled before, temporarily at least. We've had a "Native American attorney working with the United Nations" who wasn't even a lawyer or Indian. We've had "Representatives" of their Nation who weren't enrolled in or acknowledged by the Nation they claimed to represent. We've had "Diplomats", "Elders", "Activists" who weren't who they said they were. We've learned to be cautious and ask questions.
Title: 1
Post by: clanmother on November 22, 2009, 03:31:05 pm
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Title: Re: Chief Ardy & the 3 Thumbs First Nation
Post by: bls926 on November 22, 2009, 03:42:53 pm
bls926 - You are absolutely correct about the UK infiltrators.  We have them claiming ancestry to the very geographic area my family stems and I know their claims are invalid, yet they try try try.  I am working on that one now and if you send me a private email I will give you the information YOU need to verify what I say.  And...the proof is not my records but from Government records.

Sagama'sgwTTT


Thank you.
Title: Re: Chief Ardy & the 3 Thumbs First Nation
Post by: Moma_porcupine on November 22, 2009, 05:18:25 pm
bls926
Quote
Everyone who comes to NAFPS supposedly "in a good way" is not who they say they are. We've been fooled before, temporarily at least. We've had a "Native American attorney working with the United Nations" who wasn't even a lawyer or Indian. We've had "Representatives" of their Nation who weren't enrolled in or acknowledged by the Nation they claimed to represent. We've had "Diplomats", "Elders", "Activists" who weren't who they said they were. We've learned to be cautious and ask questions.

We also have an astonishing number of people come through here claiming to be a chief and complaining that everyone who doesn't recognize how grand they are is corrupt.

Reply #26
NDN Outlaw
Quote
Outrage is probably the healthiest response to oppression.
As someone who has also lived through abuse , I understand it is a healthy impulse to stand up and look the abuser in the eye and say

" You are abusive. I am not acknowledging your power. We are equal"

But when people authorize themselves as a Chief or a Nation, in the vast majority of cases this comes with a lot of problems...

Reply #22
Ardy
Quote
I deal with all levels of government, police, & Judiciary on behalf of my people. I provide for my people. More importantly, I receive no funding from any level of government. I am strictly an Independant Nation - an Ally to the Crown. Nation to Nation.

As anyone who has participated here for a while know, there is at least 1000 self proclaimed Chiefs running around, criticizing the Native leaders who don't recognize how entitled they are,  and accusing everyone who won't support them as being corrupt... Although these claims are occaisionally justified,  the large majority of these people are either exploiters or delusional.

Stepping back from this specific situation, and looking at general principles and the big picture, if we accept the general premise that tribal governments which are funded by non native governments have all been corrupted and therefore have no rightful authority , that conclusion discredits and disempowers pretty much every indigenous Nations internal authority . As indigenous peoples face an ongoing struggle to maintain their rights, and they need political leaders to do this, blanket statements that disempower all these leaders authority does not seem like the best way to serve the Native community. 

It seems it would be more constructive to avoid sweeping blanket statements that discredit all federally recognized Native leaders and instead stick to presenting the evidence and looking for solutions to specific problems.

As anyone who has participated here knows, the definitions of who is a Native person is contentious and there is a lot of different opinions on this.
 
If corruption of all tribal governments which are funded by non native governments is then interpreted as every individual who believes themself to be NDN and who feels unappreciated has the right declare themself a Nation and a Chief unto themselves - it seems obvious to me that the resulting chaos is not going to help First Nations regain respect for their sovriegnty. 

When Ardy puts so much emphasis on who she is, and her own importance, for example , by using the title of Chief, it does in my mind detract from whatever legitimate issues she may want to address.

And by douing this she does manage to do a very good imitation of a twinkie. Not saying she actually is, but in cyberspace, that is how she comes across. 

One thing I have learned through participating here without offering personal information, is that it's actually more effective to just  stay with the issues, and if we are effective at speaking the truth our own personal credentials ( or lack of them ) are pretty much beside the point.

If someone is actually doing good work and speaking the truth on an issue, the fancy titles are completely superfluous, as the truth has the power to stand on it's own feet. It doesn't need to be fancied up by someone claiming themself to be a Chief, or having a mtDNA lineage to a famous person .

And though she may not mean it in this way , some of Ardy's comments sound identical to the claims of John Williams leader of various Acadian Metis organizations, who is identified as undermining respect for First Nations by the Wabanaki Confederacy, in the link below

http://web.archive.org/web/20040120031245/www.wabanakiconfederacy.com/appropriation.html

Reply #16
Clan mother
Quote
As for the Acadians - most have Indian Blood & can prove ties to the Treaties, unlike most registered Indians who rely upon their INAC Status Cards.

John Williams quoted from the link below
Quote
None can supply documentation that proves they are even pre-depotation treaty heirs, we all do in spades, none can link themselves to Wabanaki Confeceracy Chiefs, we all do, hell! They can't even prove they are Indian with genealogy.

Reply #16
Clan mother
Quote
As for the reservation with their paternalistic white surnames - they all have white blood in their veins as they all have varying degrees of Indian Blood Quantum.

John Williams
Quote
As you can see, mixed breeds will never be accepted by status Indians unless they can provide financial benefits to them ! (heaven-forbid anyone suggesting that these "status" Indians are themselves mixed breeds!)

Reply #16
Clan mother
Quote
I know more about the history, genealogy, customs & ways of the Tribe of MicMac than anyone.

John Williams
Quote
I know more about Mi'kmaq history and culture than all of them put together, I speak the old mi'kmaq, maliseet and penobsciot trade language better than all of them!

http://web.archive.org/web/20051214211848/http://www.nbami.com/NEWSID10.shtml

More on this is in the thread below

http://www.newagefraud.org/smf/index.php?topic=1187.0

So this is some of the politics that got me wondering about Ardy's personal claims and her approach.

I hope this clarifies part of what got the twinkie alarms going off, and again I apologize if some of my suspisions were misplaced.

Title: Re: Chief Ardy & the 3 Thumbs First Nation
Post by: apukjij on November 22, 2009, 06:11:38 pm
Hi Chief Ardy, i see you made it to NAFPS. and made it thru the line of fire that happens sometimes when someone first joins. I call her Chief, she comes from a line of Chiefs. She is only one i know of in the Mi'kmaq Nation who is on the General List, she has no Rez, but the land she lives on Sissibo is old old Mi'kamw territory, she is a community of One, (well she lives with her hubby Carl) thats why she can call her self Chief. She has stood in court as a recognized authority on the MI'kmaq Treaty Chain many times, was a Warrior at Burnt Church, when the Dept of Fisheries was caught on camera running over Mi'kmaw fishers in the water after ramming and overturning the boats. She'll tell you she ain't got much, i can tell she she fought tooth and nail for everything shes got, tooth and nail against Indian Affairs and the provincial courts, who now fear her. Shes right about the Indian Act Chiefs-they are not Hereditary Chiefs. There are some Hereditary Chiefs on the Mi'kmaq Grand Council, Gary Metallic was one, but he resigned from the Grand Council and is pursuing Self Govt for his District, which is MI'kmaq tradition, whereby the Districts come under the umbrella of the Grand Council, but each District is Sovereign and when the Treaties were signed they were acceded to District by District, the Signatory had to return to the Districts and had to defend his signing of the Treaty, and only after consensus did the District adhere to the Treaty. For instance I can give you the dates that each District acceded to the Treaty of 1752. This is dramatically different from the Maliseet Penobscot and Passamaquoddy, in which the Treaty Signatories were often Chiefs, and when they signed the Treaties, it was directly on behalf of their entire Nation. This is because they were agricultural based societies and had a completely different type of govt, Mi'kmaq were hunter gatherers, which often have the multi tiered govt i described above. The Indian act chiefs are signing away our rights as we speak, I can name only one Chief of a reserve i admire in all of MI'kmaq Country, the rest are sellouts, trading our Treaty Rights for the all mighty dollar. chiefs are the lowest form of vermin in Mi'kmaq Country. Its funny you mention John Williams, John is no friend of MI'kmaq Country, and many consider his twisted version of Wapana'ki history to be treason. Ardys challenges to John on his wapanki Facebook group are legendary. and there for all to read. I have been afk for a few days or i would have you welcomed earlier. So welcome to NAFPS Chief Ardy, theres good work being done here!
Title: Re: Chief Ardy & the 3 Thumbs First Nation
Post by: NDN_Outlaw on November 22, 2009, 07:09:23 pm
Chief and council meet every morning for breakfast. I would be interested to know which clan she is claiming to represent then contact the Mic Mah to verify her claims to be a clan mother. This isolation from her nation sounds like the book "The Little Prince" where the little prince lives alone on a very small planet barely eight feet in circumference watering a single flower daily.
Title: Re: Chief Ardy & the 3 Thumbs First Nation
Post by: Moma_porcupine on November 22, 2009, 07:56:40 pm
Some of the politics in your area are pretty confusing, and I hope you don't mind me pointing out how this all looks from the standpoint of  Ignoramus Josephine Public.   

Apukjij
Quote
Its funny you mention John Williams, John is no friend of MI'kmaq Country, and many consider his twisted version of Wapana'ki history to be treason. Ardys challenges to John on his wapanki Facebook group are legendary. and there for all to read.

Ok , I do understand that...

But here is where you loose me completely

http://pa-in.facebook.com/topic.php?uid=13275037517&topic=9271&start=
30&hash=2db17f190e92e2247709a52a4c5afcc6#topic_top (http://pa-in.facebook.com/topic.php?uid=13275037517&topic=9271&start=
30&hash=2db17f190e92e2247709a52a4c5afcc6#topic_top)
Sam / Apukjij
Quote
"I will briefly state what i wrote on those post. If you are a
descended from a Treaty Signer i believe you are entitled to join the
Native Council in NS, NB, PEI and NFLD. Thats the only mechanism to
give Metis and People of Distant Indian Ancestry (PODIA) a chance to
excercise the Treaty Rights they deserve. You can join and take part
in all the enteprenerial and business acumen programs they offer, they
have a fishing fleet excercising rights won by Jr. Marshall. They also
offer notifications on jobs and training programs availible. So when
Acadian Metis cry that they are not benifiting from Treaty, its a lie
WE HAVE A MECHANISM IN PLACE FOR PODIAS ITS JOINING THE NATIVE
COUNCILS IN EACH OF THE MARITIME PROVINCES. PODIAS WHO TRACE THEIR
HERITAGE BACK TO A TREAT SIGNATOR ARE NOT L'NU BUT TREATY INDIANS."

So... It seems to me what you just said here is exactly the same thing that John Williams is saying, which you just called treason.

You are both seem to be claiming all descendents, no matter how far back and no matter how long it's been since they have had any relationship with a First Nation , should rightfully be considered Treaty Benificiaries.

The only difference I can see is who is saying this, not the basic idea and entitlements attached to this idea. 

Personally I tend to think ideas that are workable are good ideas no matter who says them, and ideas that don't have enough integrity to be functional are going to create problems no matter who is saying them.

And there is some precedents here that would have people who's families have not been members of any First Nation for many many generations far outnumbering the indigenous peoples ,who have managed to hang onto their collective identity and culture.

How is that workable?

Like I say, I am speaking only as a representive of the ignorant public.

If you could explain your position and how the basic premises you are promoting differ from John Williams claims, and how this will help restore Mi'kmaq control over their own resources, it would be helpful, .

Heck i've already asked enough stupid questions in this thread I guess I may as well go for some sort of stupid question award... 

I don't mean to be disrespectful , but in cyberspace it's really hard to know who anyone is or who or what they really represent. it takes a while to learn about someones point of view and see a pattern and an integrity there.- or lack of it.
Title: Re: Chief Ardy & the 3 Thumbs First Nation
Post by: apukjij on November 23, 2009, 12:18:36 pm
"You are both seem to be claiming all descendents, no matter how far back and no matter how long it's been since they have had any relationship with a First Nation , should rightfully be considered Treaty Benificiaries."
are you nuts momma p? NO I DO NOT BELIEVE THAT, i do belive that if you are a descendant of a Treaty Signator, you are entitled to be a beneficiary, its as simple as that, and yes if you are a PODIA, the govt has set it up that you can join the Native Councils, and get benefits, do i agree with it NO! but it is set up that way, so if a PODIA tells me they arent getting anything i send them to the Native Councils,
"I don't mean to be disrespectful , but in cyberspace it's really hard to know who anyone is or who or what they really represent. it takes a while to learn about someones point of view and see a pattern and an integrity there.- or lack of it."
now you have offended me by attacking my integrity, fine so be it....
Title: Re: Chief Ardy & the 3 Thumbs First Nation
Post by: apukjij on November 23, 2009, 12:54:27 pm
i have to go back to this, i have to express my disappointment in you momma p, i have read every thread youve posted to for a year and a half, and your the last person i expected to put words in my mouth on this site, now i dont trust you, and if anyone in Mi'kmaq country asks about you, and they are reading these posts because Ardy posted in her facebook this thread, i will tell them you are not to be trusted...
Title: RESOLVED, NO LONGER A MATTER OF CONCERN: Chief Ardy & the 3 Thumbs First Nation
Post by: Moma_porcupine on November 23, 2009, 01:42:26 pm
Apukjij i'm sorry I have offended you, and i'm sorry I misunderstood the genealogical information I posted . Whoever wrote that Trask obituray and neglected to include the info that Chief Ardy Born With 3 Thumbs is the wife of is partially responsible for that. And so is Ardy by getting offended and saying she wasn't related to the Trasks...

We do see cases of identity theft here, and the questions that were asked in this regard are the only way to sort out the fakes from the people who are real.

I did talk to someone who talked to some who talked to someone and I can now say with certainty that what Chief Ardy says about herself is all true.

If Ardy would like I can change the title of this thread to

Chief Ardy is who she says ( questions resolved)

I could also ask a moderator to move the thread out of research needed to ect where we can continue to discuss some of the other issues.

And there is other issues , which have do do with some of the things I read both you and Ardy posting and APPEARING to be promoting in other places.

If thats a misunderstanding maybe that goes two ways and you need to consider what this sounds like to someone who reads what you write.... And how this will undoubtably be used.


I want to post this , but I will respond to some of what you said in more detail in a minute
============
edited to add

The rest of this discussion has been moved to here
 
http://www.newagefraud.org/smf/index.php?topic=2459.0