Author Topic: Who you calling non native???  (Read 6484 times)

Lord-of-Disco

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Who you calling non native???
« on: April 30, 2007, 09:31:16 am »
Might seem really daft, but I really, really, really object to the term native people. There's no Indian or Aboriginee or Maori any more native to this planet than me and my family. Just the term "Native People" contributes to the whole BS structure of looking at things that spawns half the new age BS inthe first place. In my view.

Over here in England, aristocratic families are sometimes reffered to as "Old Families"... There's no family any older than mine, lol... I got ancestors going right back to the start, same as everyone... hell - it's probably the same ancestor.

Funny...

Offline Barnaby_McEwan

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Re: Who you calling non native???
« Reply #1 on: April 30, 2007, 02:13:46 pm »
There's no Indian or Aboriginee or Maori any more native to this planet than me and my family.

I don't think anyone who uses the term is implying otherwise.

Quote
Just the term "Native People" contributes to the whole BS structure of looking at things that spawns half the new age BS inthe first place.

I guess it depends on who's saying it and when. If a hippie's using the phrase to communicate the idea that they are more groovily spiritual than us then yes that's BS. If someone's using it instead of reeling off the names of 500 nations and bands, what's the problem? As far as I understand it there's no general term for the indigenous people of the Americas and their descendants which won't annoy somebody so if native people only annoys some English guy, then you'll probably just have to lump it. I'm English and I don't have a problem with it.

Lord-of-Disco

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Re: Who you calling non native???
« Reply #2 on: April 30, 2007, 03:48:06 pm »
Well then by the same token if someone wants to calll themselves an Indian at heart, and it only annoys a few Indians, then I guess they should just lump it.

I'm not saying it's a massive issue, just that it's patronising.

Equally, just because it's become accepted, doesn't mean that it shouldn't be questioned. Question everything is my motto... Same as Marx.

Offline educatedindian

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Re: Who you calling non native???
« Reply #3 on: April 30, 2007, 07:35:45 pm »
"Indian at heart" sometimes annoys Natives, but more often, it makes us laugh at the person saying it.

And if Native and nonNative offend you, then you must have lived a pretty sheltered life. You're the first I've ever seen object.

If you'd grown up being called a prairie nigger as I and many Natives here have, or had even your professors and commanders in the army call you epithets, then maybe I'd give your complaint some serious consideration.

I won't lose any sleep over your complaint, any more than English nobility will over you calling yourself a Lord.


Lord-of-Disco

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Re: Who you calling non native???
« Reply #4 on: April 30, 2007, 09:36:59 pm »
I'm not complaining - I'm just telling. This kind of issue goes deeper than the surface. We relate to one another as a human species through our language and concepts, and many words or ways of putting things *secondary message* concepts that we don't see consciously.

It's not a big deal - no deal is, to my mind - but the problem with standard issues is that everyone else's seem dumb, while our own seem really important. The whole concept of "native" is skewed towards generating the very New-Age image and connotation that you say you want to avoid. Native implies original, but a "culture", as well as being a real social phenomenon, is also a highly ideological construction. Especially where there is land rights and historical issues.

Now, to my mind, people matter, not history. Living, actual people are what matter. Ideology says that a whole ethnic group can be more "native" than other people who are born and bred in a place just the same. Somehow the dead grant legitimacy to the living, or deny it from others.

Does who your ancestors were actually affect your nativeness to a place? Well, it might do, in some Indian beliefs, and also in many other beliefs - but beliefs are just that - beliefs, ideological constructions. They exist in people's minds, and the cradles that hold beliefs are the actual words that we use - and, more importantly, their hidden connotations.

Something is wrong if a white man who is born in a place isn't thought native to it, just because of the political beliefs of others. And for all the talk of rights and heritage, it really is politics. Where should the blacks go? Back to Africa? The Jews born in Palestine? Back to Eastern Europe because they aren't "native" in the place that they were born? Rubbish.

When I hear the words "Native people" and think about how that has somehow got tied up with "magical" and "wise" I laugh, because it's not wise to refer to any human as more native to the Earth than any other... and even in one zone, like the States or Palestine, I can't believe that no one sees the deep political, divisive connotation of implying that people who are born and bred in a place aren't native to it. Madness - and not wisdom - just politics and ideology. I can see why it would feel cool to be called "native" so I say I'm native as well - I'm just as native as any Indian. I don't mind you calling yourself a native person - you are, and so am I. Hello, we are all natives together!

Ideology spreads through words that have dual or deeper "sub messaged" meanings, constructing world views from the inside out. Who your ancestors were doesn't make any difference to the state of affairs that you live in. Who really owns the Earth? No one - we just like to think that we do.

Anyway, no big deal. The English word for Indian is Indian, so that's what I use, just like the French say Anglaise for English. Native people my eye - no one is more native to this green earth than me and mine, and we're no more native than anyone else. When the aliens come, then we can talk about who is native, lol.

But, generally, other people's standard issues seem dumb, and the steps that unite people are always back burned to the daft standard issues that have us all drawing lines of difference. The aliens will laugh. If they can't see colour, or make out the slight differences in features, they'll wonder what on Earth we're on about.

Still, letting go of "native" would be a big step, but obviously, somethign would have to be let go of to do that... and if people can see what that intangible thing is, well, that would be cool - from the States to Ireland to Palestine. Standard issues...




Lord-of-Disco

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Re: Who you calling non native???
« Reply #5 on: April 30, 2007, 09:38:59 pm »
Quote:
If you'd grown up being called a prairie nigger as I and many Natives here have, or had even your professors and commanders in the army call you epithets, then maybe I'd give your complaint some serious consideration.
End.

Are you telling me here that you use the word Native as a political or personal way of establishing self respect?