NAFPS Forum
General => Frauds => Topic started by: Le Weaponnier on December 29, 2005, 05:26:52 pm
-
I found this link....
http://www.blacklightning.on.ca/Leaders/leaders.html
and this at the same group
http://www.icss.org/
Does this seem a little too fake to you?
They advertise things like the Spiritual sexuality workshops, crystal healings snd other new-age stuff.
Does anyone know anything about them?
-
Of course this is not real Native teaching! It is a blatant rip-off and insult to true spirituality.
-
I found this link....
They advertise things like the Spiritual sexuality quote]
In most case the sex workshops you are talking about refer to the so called, Chuluaqui Quodoushka. It claims to be a spiritual sexuality teaching handed down from Native American and Latin American native teachings.
It's actually a load of crap distilled from things like the Kama Sutra(cleaning Chakra's???) mixed in with a lot of fabricated nonsense. It all came down as a part of Harley 'Swift Deer' Reagans cult teachings.
That anyone could believe in this stuff amazes me. It tries to teach you how to have 'Sacred Orgasms' etc. It's more like a course in how to turn sex into a mastubatory experience of self-pleasure than how to have better sex. If people were to do all the things they tell you to do to enjoy sex, you'd be working so hard at it you'd miss the point (and probably the orgasm!).
It's really sad that people pay good money to go to do this.
-
I looked at theri website.
It's worse than most of the fake sites out there.
It's a load of bull-s&&t if you ask me.
There should be some form of regulatiion for these things.
The Q workshops are known to be nonsense. They apeal to chicks that think sex should be better. They must laugh their heads off at the girls who do all this stuff to get sacred orgasms. There would be more stuff on the Net about them but I suspect, most women would rather not say anything than admit to being duped into paying big bucks to
have better sex.
What a joke!
I feel sorry for all the girls who think that better sex will come from being a slut. If you're already a slut you can enjoy the course with no idea of what the f*** is wrong!
-
LW, your instinct was right. This is purely Nuage, has zero to do with Native beliefs outside of rip offs of genuine Native terms like sweet medicine. Some of the phoniness is so obvious that I often wonder how anyone falls for these. I honestly think Harley Reagan deliberately chose to be as wrong as possible in his depiction of Native beliefs so as to drive away anyone who knows anything about Native traditions.
I hope no one you know was taken in by these. Not only are the "Deer Tribe" a cult that rips off huge amounts of money, they are an extremely dangerous cult that abuses a lot of women (and sometimes men) sexually and is heavily armed and preparing for a race war.
http://www.phoenixnewtimes.com/issues/2002-06-13/news/feature.html
What is pretty damned scary is that some of these cult leaders are psychotherapists and teachers at schools, a danger to their patients and schoolkids. I would not be at all surprised to see this cult go the way of the Branch Davidians or Jim Jones.
Warn anyone you know interested in this group as loudly as you can.
Note also that every last site they link to are also frauds. Do a search of this forum and you'll find information we've gathered on just about all of them.
-
Hahaha! OMG! LOok at the TWINKIE names!
"Snow Bear Dreaming"? "Crystal Well Woman"?? Haha!
-
So since everyone agrees that they are also a fraudulent cult should I put a message in the frauds section about them now?
I can't understand why more people can't seem to realise that these people are ripping them off.
-
It's been an interesting time reading about these people. I just don't understand why no one arrests them or investigates them.
Is it that people are too afraid to admit to being scammed? Or sexually abused? Or are they so brainwashed, they think it's all ok?
-
This cult has an incredible knack for picking people who are either extremely vulnerable or deluded. I ran into a guy on another cult discussion forum who'd almost joined them about five years ago, and he STILL believed them to be genuine, came up with the most elaborate arguments for why sex ceremonies and white wannabes playing Indian and training for a race war against Latinos seemed authentically Cherokee to him. To be fair, the guy was pretty shell shocked from his time in the Moonies.
When I was in Phoenix we gave the Scottsdale PD evidence of their committing fraud and using paid prostitutes and drugs in their fake ceremonies and they still refused to prosecute. Harley Reagan is a very big name in the local NRA and the Phoenix area has a lot of adult industries that border on being bordellos.
There was one activist I met who said they even gave videotaped evidence to the DA and they efused to charge them.
-
Hahaha! OMG! LOok at the TWINKIE names!
"Snow Bear Dreaming"? "Crystal Well Woman"?? Haha!
I found "Snow Bear Dreaming" to be Lou Brunato on their site
http://www.blacklightning.on.ca/Leaders/leaders.html
I did a search for him and found:
http://users.pandora.be/gohiyuhi/frauds/frd0011a.htm
Scroll down to the section on Canada and you find him as a person to avoid. Does anyone know any more about him?
I did n't see the "Crystal Well Woman"
-
When I was in Phoenix we gave the Scottsdale PD evidence of their committing fraud and using paid prostitutes and drugs in their fake ceremonies and they still refused to prosecute. Harley Reagan is a very big name in the local NRA and the Phoenix area has a lot of adult industries that border on being bordellos.
There was one activist I met who said they even gave videotaped evidence to the DA and they efused to charge them.
That may be true in Scottsdale, but if it was in another jurisdiction or country and the police raided a sex ceremony and everyone's names ended up in the newspapers it would keep a lot of people drom ever going to snother ceremony.
Maybe then it would get into the mainstream media. and people wouldn't get used.
-
I'd certainly encourage trying to take this cult on in as many jurisdictions as possible. I can give some tips to anyone who wants to try:
Go to Trish's site and see if one of their chapters is near you. Keep in mind the local chapters have their own names other than Deer Tribe.
http://users.pandora.be/gohiyuhi/frauds/frd0011a.htm
Look for ads for their "sex ceremonies" in the local alternative press under "adult services" or sexual counseling/psychotherapy.
Usually you have to call up to find out the location of these seminars. They don't want protests by NDNs or our supporters. So claim to be someone simply curious.
***If you don't want them knowing your home phone #, call them up from work or a payphone. Give a false address. Keep in mind this group is heavily armed and preparing for a race war. And tell them you don't have a credit card. Otherwise they will insist upon you paying in advance with it.***
These "ceremonies" are usually held in a cult member's home, usually in well off suburbs. Get there early and hand out flyers warning people. Don't forget to hand out flyers to the neighbors, who usually don't know what's going on and wouldn't want group sexual assault happening next door, esp if they have kids. This is a good way to drive the "ceremonies" out of the neighborhood.
Try to get to people going into the "ceremony" before they send out their security details. It is from these people that we found out all the illegal activity and found people willing to testify, angry at being cheated and lied to.
These security details know exactly how far to push things without breaking the law. One of them tried to break into an NDN woman's car while we were there, saying "I just want to talk, just being friendly." We found that taking their photo to hand over to the cops scares them off.
In our case, they called the cops on us. That backfired, the cops praised us for knowing how to lawfully conduct a protest. We gave them all the details of their illegal activity and the cops demanded to enter the premises. Since they had no warrant, the cult leaders delayed for about 20 minutes, hiding drug paraphernalia and the prostitutes.
While I do want people to take ordinary precautions, keep in mind this group will only subtly try to intimidate people. They did not try violence against us, or anyone else as far as I know.
Since we have several new people as Guests asking about this cult, let me ask if I can if anyone you know has been harmed or defrauded by this cult. If so, could you tell us about their experience?
If you were, I strongly urge you to go to the cops or DA, or file a lawsuit. If you are embarassed or feel ashamed, fist of all, don't be. These are experienced con artists. But if you prefer to remain anonymous and post simply as Guests, that's fine.
-
There is one in Canada Thursday
Chuluaqui Quodoushka III - Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Thurs Jan 12th - Sunday Jan 15th, 2006
Prerequisite: Quodoushka I and II
Registration/Information: I.C.S.S., call 416-603-4912
As far as I know, this is the full on fucking in the workshop version since it's the QIII
It would be good if someone could alert the media or the police in Toronto or just somehow get it out in the public eye.
-
Quote:"Look for ads for their "sex ceremonies" in the local alternative press under "adult services" or sexual counseling/psychotherapy. "
Shouldn't we look for ads for "GROUP GROPE" or "PAY AS YOU GO ORGY"?
Seriously though, isn't this sort of thing illegal?
Why don't the local cops in the cities investigate?
You have a bunch of naked dumbass people sitting in a room being shown how to have sex by prostitutes and what not. It's got to be violating something.
How exactly do they do this stuff? Do they get a "hands on" from the instructors? Do the instructors actually do things with the customers or do they just demostrate by having sex in front of them?
-
Quote:"Shouldn't we look for ads for "GROUP GROPE" or "PAY AS YOU GO ORGY"?
I think I like that.
It'd be funnier if it wasn't so sad.
I feel sorry for these people who think they have to pay big money to take a course to improve their sex life.
They will only end up more screwed up than ever. Personally, I didn't need to go to school to have great sex. I don't want to think of my sexuality being the result of some half-baked mish mash of traditions and nonsense.
Indian sex indeed. Wrong Indians for a start, more the New Delhi tribe than Cherokee .
-
I keep seeing this Chuluaqui Quodoushka listed as an ancient Cherokee or Toltec system for better sex, yet it uses Eastern terms like Chakrasand they encourage molesting children and group sex and generally slutty behaviour so we know it's all fake.
But I was curious to know, do the words "Chuluaqui Quodoushka" really mean anything?
Or are they really just nonsense words or perhaps words that are just useful to as a fab=ncy name for it?
-
Search the site for Harley Swift Deer Reagan. He invented the term. He is a major perv and sicko.
-
According to one of their own sites http://www.icss.orglp_quo.htm Chuluaqui refers to the primordial life force energy from which everything is created., and the quodoushka is the magickal energy created when two life forces energies merge to creat a new energy greater than the sum of its parts????
My how ignorance abounds, no this is not a Cherokee term and there is no such thing as sacred sex!! these people are perverted sick people sucking people in to all kind of sex orgies all in the name of "ceremonies", "sacred traditions" and "shamanism".
All these teachings by these fakes who are " teaching how to be a shaman" have a link to a known fraud Michael Harner founder of the foundation for shamanic studies . www.shamansism.org. also anthropik.com/2005/10/neoshamanism-15-masterbation/-44k proves to be interesting reading.
you will also find Michael Harner at users.pandora.be/gohiyuhi/frauds/frd002.htm.
There is nothing Native American about any of these groups dealing with all this garbage.
-
post script: Michael Harner on fraud site:
users.pandora.be/gohiyuhi/frauds/frd0002.htm
Does anyone know of any of these groups in Illinois???
Joyce A.
-
Quote:"My how ignorance abounds, no this is not a Cherokee term and there is no such thing as sacred sex!! these people are perverted sick people sucking people in to all kind of sex orgies all in the name of "ceremonies", "sacred traditions" and "shamanism"."
That's what I have heard too. I met a lady the other day who had been to one of the "Q" sessions. She was repulsed by it all. They tried to get her to screw with some strange guy there on the grounds that both he and she had come alone and only by having sex with him could she experience "fire breath orgasm". He apparently stank of pee. The guy ended up getting a hand job from one of the "assistants" I guess that's what they call "fluffers" in the "Q" workshops.
Sounds fucking gross to me.
-
To All Our Relations Of the Original People Of The Great Turtle Island:
With Agreement: A Declaration To The Restoration Of The Supreme Jurisdiction
I Am Kitchi O-Stew Ka-Nee-Ka-Na-Go-Shick Okimow-Wacon Ka-Nee-Ka-Neet, I am The Heart Of Indian Title, I Am The “Sovereign Inheritor,??? Of The Sovereign To Sovereign Relationship With Her Majesty Elizabeth R. Her Heir’s And Successor’s, For The Treaty(s) On The Land Of The Law For The Original People Of Turtle Island, I am Your Servant, Trustee, And Benefactor.
By Creator’s Will, I Am The Lead ThunderBird for All Our People, For The Restoration Of The Supreme Jurisdiction For The Original People Of The Great Turtle Island.
Three Paths Lead Us To Creator’s Road:
1. A Peace And Friendship Treaty To Stand In Recognition Of The Lead ThunderBird, And For The Lead ThunderBird To Stand Beside And Recognize All Chiefs’ Who Sign With Us, From the Eagle And The Condor To Create A Supra Federation Of Sovereign Original Nations For The Great Turtle Island.
2. The Lead ThunderBird Has Appointed Messengers’: For The West, Chief Alex Louie, For The East, Chief Pat Holley, And For The South, ClanMother Carol Peterson. Each Is Standing Beside the Lead ThunderBird, To Be His Eyes, Ears And Voice To Share Creator’s Good Message Of Unity For The Eagle And The Condor And The Land In Between; Original People Of The Great Turtle Island.
3. Okimow-Wacon Nepa-Ka-Nee-Pa-Wit (SpiritChief Stands-On-Water) Is In The Final Stages Of Writing, “A Declaration Of An Amendment To The Royal Proclamation Of October 7th, 1763.??? Which Will Allow The Great Turtle To Wake Peacefully, And Return The Benefit of All Treaty(s) To The Benefit Of The People Of The Great Turtle Island. With The Peoples Agreement, I Will Become The Central Authority Over All The Treaty(s) On The Land Of The Law Of Turtle Island, To Hold The Treaty(s) For The People Nations To Bring To Me Any Changes They Wish To Make To Return Their Treaty(s) Back To Benefit The People Of The Land Of The Law Of The Treaty(s).
Our Unity Of The Eagle, The Condor and Land In Between Is Creator’s Road To A Thousand Years Of Peace. From This Unity, A New People Will Be Born Of The Eagle And The Condor: The ThunderBird People Of Prophecy, In A Good Way And For Those Who Come After.
As Always, We Are:
Kitchi O-Stew Ka-Nee-Ka-Na-Go-Shick Okimow-Wacon Ka-Nee-Ka-Neet,
The Seventh Generation Traditional Inherent Head Spiritual Chief Of The Soto Nation And The Anishinabe Nations Standing With The United Nations Of The Great Turtle Island, The [King-Chief To Canada.] 1-360-789-6816.
And
Okimow-Wacon Nepa-Ka-Nee-Pa-Wit,
SpiritChief Stands-On-Water, Of The Soto Nation Of The Anishinabe Nations Of Turtle Island, First Subordinate Officer of the Nations People of Turtle Island. 1-204-282-0719
And
Gauhdoowah Chief Robert (Swift Arrow) Daniel Rose Gahliduh Ayahnooli,
Of Cherokee Nation Of Turtle Island,
Appointed Special Rapporteur For The United Nations of Turtle Island,
1-202-957-5731.
-
Quote:"The guy ended up getting a hand job from one of the "assistants" I guess that's what they call "fluffers" in the "Q" workshops.
Sounds fucking gross to me.
I had to look up "fluffers" to know what you meant.
Thet's pretty funny. I had not realised that there was a jpb involving keeping guys hard or finishing them off for porno movies.
It sounds like a job for prostitute.
-
Re: "To All Our Relations Of the Original People Of The Great Turtle Island"
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Canada has a "King-Chief To Canada" ??
links found:
http://freecatalonia.ghostchild.com/index.php/topic,346.from1137469502/topicseen.html
cached version:
Free Catalonia
http://72.14.203.104/search?q=cache:VdSuNn8LP08J:freecatalonia.ghostchild.com/index.php/topic,346.from1137469502/topicseen.html+%22Chief+Pat+Holley%22&hl=en
http://freecatalonia.ghostchild.com/index.php/board,19.0.html
-
I think he got run off from here before. A real nutbar.
-
Declaration: ROFLMAO!!!!!!!!!
-
Quote:" But I was curious to know, do the words "Chuluaqui Quodoushka" really mean anything?"
As far as I know the name Chuluaqui Quodoushka is about as legitimate as the teachings. In other words --->NOT!!!!!!
Harley Reagan made it all up! The whole Chuluaqui Quodoushka seems to be only a method of separating those wth sexual problems from their money. I'm sure there are a lot of people who actually do believe this nonsense has helped them.
But they are just weird. Right up there (pardon the pun) with people who have been abducted by aliens.
The only sacred sex is that between you and the person you love. NO amount of teaching breathing techniques, stroking techniques, and sacred orgasms is going to help.
As far as I have been able to tell, Cherokees do not practice or have ever practiced sacred sex. So there's not much chance they'd have a term for it.
-
debbie wrote: "A real nutbar"
D'ya think??
These people just keep coming on up outta that cesspool. And these are the people who can be the most dangerous as they honeslty believe this stuff, and have followers who believe this stuff. *Shaking head in bemusement*
-
RE: To All Our Relations of the Original People of the Great Turtle Island:
You Know I have to really say there chief kica kica,
I really hear where you are coming from hey? I mean geee wizz it so loud and clear how can one misunderstand this "declaration" it is so loud!!!
-
sorry I just got so excited by this message. Yes I hear"ME TARZAN YOU JANE". hmm well as I see it you are a chu-h-ga on a gi-tli.Just sounding brass thats all!!!!
-
I will refrain from shaking this tree, for fear of what may fall out of it.
-
These people just keep coming on up outta that cesspool. ? And these are the people who can be the most dangerous as they honeslty believe this stuff, and have followers who believe this stuff.
It's no wonder they believe this stuff.
Realistically, who can blame them for falling into these cults and believing their nonsense if they don't know any different?
You try to find any info on the Net, all you get is self-perpetuating pablum from so many sites that it almost looks real.
For example you do a search on the chuluaqui quodoushka and all you find are glowing descriptions in almost the same wording from every Nuage site. Even the foregin sites translate to the same phrases. You really have to search to find the truth. How is anyone supposed to know any better when there is no site for truthful information. And I don't mean a forum like this but a full fledged website.
You need a site with articles like:
-------------------------------------------------------------
Chuluaqui Quodoushka - also known as the "Q"
A phoney sex workshop created to fraudulently teach non-existent "Cherokee Sacred Sexuality" to
people who should know better. Uses made up techniques and corruptions of other sex courses in an attempt to look legitimate. Has been known to be used by sexual perverts to troll for victims and encourage molestation of young people. Has been known to use degrading sexual rituals to help control and manuipulate people. Linked to cult groups. Avoid at all costs.
-------------------------------------------------------------
If people could find information worded like that on the Net, they might think twice about it....
Law enforcement people might be less reticent to prosecute as once it's in the public eye it's harder to ignore.
With that in mind when you hear about these people perpetuating these frauds, let someone know. Phone your local politicians, let the people in the neighbourhood know Get the old busy-body on the street thinking about it. You see an ad for them in your local alternative newspaper or on the Web, let somoene know! Your average local politician might not be too happy to find out he has 'live sex orgies' in his town or city.
Get the public educated and these people will go away when there are no more customers.
No offense, to anyone here, but sitting at your computer rehashing the same stuff (and I admit I do it too) to a bunch of people who already know all this stuff is fraudulent is not getting a hell of a lot accomplished. Same withsomeone running a backyard "sweat" for money. let the neighbours know. Ostracism works wonders.
Well, that's my rant for today. Hopefully I have not offended anyone today, and if I have I apologise now.
-
Le Weaponnier, there is truth behind what you say. My grandmother used to call people that complained and did nothing were" pew warmers "
As for myself, I try very hard to do more than sit at a computer and post comments about frauds. In fact it is only been the last several months that I have used the computer for such things.
I have for many years traveled to groups and attended rallies speaking out against people such as these that are posted. I have gone as far as renting out buildings ( using my own money), to address the public, running ads in the papers, and ads on the radio stations .
I have obtained an attorney in Ky. against a fraud group that is posted here in this site. If it hadn't been for this site I would not have had the knowledge that this group existed.
Unfortunately not all people have the luxury of extra monies for traveling expenses and other things that sometimes it requires to do something in a physical form, for some all they can afford to spend is their time. And for that I am greatful for all that do.
-
Le Weaponnier,
I hear your frustration as i've been there to many times. There is a lot of research that goes into this site, I for one have spent many hours to get accurate facts before posting with links to back it up.
As far as just sitting at the computer, there is much that can be and has been done, newspapers have been contacted with facts and links from this site, BBB has been notified, Elders and Chiefs of the Eastern and Western Cherokee have been notified and are aware of all these things ect..
Will we ever get rid of them? I'm a realist and these things have always been in one form or another, the color of the coat simply changes. These things will always be. I do all I can and am very greatful for this site as it does state what you stated. To really want to know the truth one must seek it and examine it to know what is real.
-
Quote:"As far as just sitting at the computer, there is much that can be and has been done, newspapers have been contacted with facts and links from this site, BBB has been notified, Elders and Chiefs of the Eastern and Western Cherokee have been notified and are aware of all these things ect.. "
I have a better suggestion, a lot of these sites have the names and often the emails of Twinkies, why not email them the information or the location of this site.
It could be done as a cleverly worded email to get them to logon to this site for example.
-
Quote:"
I have a better suggestion, a lot of these sites have the names and often the emails of Twinkies, why not email them the information or the location of this site.
? It could be done as a cleverly worded email to get them to logon to this site for example.
I agree it's not a bad idea, but I haven't seen to many that post theri emails. Some sites do have forums too though. Where they discuss dolphins, Atlantis and sacred sex and Mayan Tarot cards. Post a 'nice' message like.
"Visit this site for Native American information. Learn how to (insert whatever Nuage appropriate garbage here). Visit (add a link to the Frauds section of this forum). Tell your friends!"
If only one person wakes up, you have done that person a service. Maybe they will make the difference to someone esle.
-
Quote:" I agree it's not a bad idea, but I haven't seen to many that post theri emails. Some sites do have forums too though. Where they discuss dolphins, Atlantis and sacred sex and Mayan Tarot cards. Post a 'nice' message like.
"Visit this site for Native American information. Learn how to (insert whatever Nuage appropriate garbage here). Visit (add a link to the Frauds section of this forum). Tell your friends!"
-
Quote:"
"Visit this site for Native American information. Learn how to (insert whatever Nuage appropriate garbage here). Visit (add a link to the Frauds section of this forum). Tell your friends!"
That's not a bad idea at all. The other thing I have done also is to call up the local City Hall and informed them that this stuff is going on. They also suggested I contact Crime Stoppers and any organizations along those lines.
It's my belief that one or two complaints won't get anything done, but eventually complain enough and some one will sit up and take notice.
-
All should be tested for HIV