Hi Doncampbell
Your thoughtful heartfelt post seems to have gotten lost amoungst all the serious nut bars that have come through here lately .
Don
I also know many of the principals in the 'sweat lodge issue'. I know of native people who have quietly supported this work, some of whom are deeply connected to their own traditions, and I certainly know of, and have avoided, plastic shamans.
I also have known Elders who were respected within the Native community and who were open to non native friends or family members participating in some ( but not all ) traditional ceremonies .
What I have never seen, is Native Elders who think it is a good idea for non native people to lead traditional ceremonies outside of a Native community . I am sure there are a few eccentric individuals who think this is OK , but from what I have seen the vast majority of traditional people feel that type of " sharing " is not right . This often gets attributed to lingering anger at White people , and sometimes that is probably a factor , but there is also reasons which have nothing to do with this at all.
As I understand it , removing traditional ceremonies from the balance provided by a knowledgable Native community , and removing traditional ceremonines from the context of a lineage which goes back into the past , and the responsibilities of carrying this forward into the future , is basicly the cause , of the MANY problems you see listed here .
Personally I admire what I know of the Quakers past efforts to support human rights , and though I am sure we all have some room for improvement , I have quite a bit of respect for Quakers . Or I did until I saw the people mentioned above , who appear to be affiliated with Quakers, selling Sweat Lodge Ceremonies and Vision Quests ...
Thats really disgusting .
That is sort of like charging people at the door, to sit in your meetings in the presence of God . Do Quakers do that ? Wouldn't you find that really offensive ? It is exactly this tendancy for Sacred traditions to be abused like this , that has so many Native people oppposed to " sharing" . Are these people really doing this as a part of the Quaker organization ? Why is this desecration happening if there was a moratorium put on using traditional ceremonies?
Don
The FGC organization, which is not a governing body in any sense, has placed a moratorium/ban on sweat lodges for now. The 'for now' means that there is not unity among all Friends. We have a lot of work to do to achieve that unity, whatever we conclude. The effort is to respect all of us, both for and against, while we come to 'clearness' as we call it.
I can see it would be really confusing to on one hand feel you had been welcomed and even invited to have a Sweatlodge Ceremony as a part of Quaker get togethers , but then on the other hand discover many Native people were feeling really violated and upset by this . I have seen other situations where this has happened and I understand it can be really distressing for people to be told they stole something they thought was a gift, and that whatever good came to them from the experince was wrong . Personally I don't think it is all black or white .
We all have a lot of work to do in finding a balance again . As long as people are sincerely trying to be respectful , I don't see this as anyone being "wrong" .
But to not listen to the concerns of many Native people and to continue to use a traditional ceremony in a way many Native people feel is offensive , would be wrong . I am glad the FGC has done the right thing and put a moratorium on this , ( except for the apparent Quaker people selling ceremonies ) I appreciate the strength of character it took to do this, when there is so many people pushing to dismiss Native concerns .
Don
My Dad. not a Quaker, once told me that pretty much every religion and political group had probably one or two great strenths or pieces of wisdom, and likewise one or two great flaws. He cautioned me not to throw out the baby with the bathwater.
You know , in many Native traditions the Sweat lodge is ONLY used in healing , and I mean serious life and death sort of healing , not a weekly way to get together with friends in an intimate environment to share Prayers. There are many traditional people who don't agree , even with Native people using the Sweat Lodge like it is a place to have weekly Church meetings .
So here is what I am really curious about ... What is the metaphorical baby that people don't want to throw out ?
What is it about a Sweat Lodge ceremony that Quaker young people have gotten so attached to it ?
Whatever this need is , could it be explored to see if it is showing an area where some healing and improvement in Quaker traditions could happen ?
What I am wondering is , isn't there other ways these same needs can be met , that would keep Native traditions within the balance provided by a Native community and wouldn't involve the bad feeling that result from misappropriating another cultures ceremonies ?
