Author Topic: Statement from Zoi Lightfoot - Director of Legal Affairs Treaty House UK  (Read 137283 times)

nighthawk

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Offline Moma_porcupine

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Re: Statement from Zoi Lightfoot - Director of Legal Affairs Treaty House UK
« Reply #31 on: December 18, 2008, 05:05:35 pm »
On November 18 I sent the PM below to Zoi Lightfoot .

Quote
Please provide a way to confirm your identity
« Sent to: zoi lightfoot on: November 18, 2008, 02:26:08 pm »
« Bcc: educatedindian »
   
Hi Zoi

As you know I am concerned about people in a position of public trust claiming to be someone they aren't.

I'm sorry to be suspisious of you and your organization Treaty House, but when I do a search online I can't find a single official UN webpage or other affiliated professional organization which mentions of a " Zoi Lightfoot " working as a lawyer on behalf of indigenous rights in the UN.

This seems a bit unlikely if you were who you say you are.

There has been inquiries made in the Native community , even with Leonard Peltiers family, and so far I have not found anyone who knows you or your family.

I want to be fair. It may be the people making these inquiries just haven't asked the right person

If you are who you say you are, I would like to confirm this through PMs. I would then post something explaining I have confirmed this along with an publicly posted apology for doubting you.

On the other hand , if I can't confirm that you are who you say you are, and that you are doing what you are doing, with the approval of the Nation you claim, then I would feel the need to start a thread in Research Needed titled "Treaty House" .

Could you please help avoid an unnecesary confrontation by providing me with an email address to someone in the Tribal Council ending with  the Tribal Councils

@whiteearth.com

who is willing to confirm you are who you say you are, and that you do have the approval of the Tribe you claim to be starting a 'European Native American Embassy' in the UK .

You could tell them to watch for an gmail from PJ Morgan asking about Zoi Lightfoot.   

Please note This PM is "semi private" communication. it is Bcc to Al and I fully intend to  publicly post any and all information I receive which I feel may be in the public interest.

Either in confirmation of who you are, or in confirmation of who you are not. 

 PJ Morgan is an alias and I state this on every email I send under this psuedonom . Please don't think this is my real name.

http://www.indigenouspeople.org.uk/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=26&Itemid=45

 
Quote
  "First Nations Gathering
    The idea of a 'First Nations Gathering' was broached in June 2007 by the group setting up Treaty House. This will be the largest International Intertribal Gathering ever to be held in Europe, planned for 10 – 16 May 2008. It will be an annual showcase event featuring Native American Film, Art and Music together with educational talks and workshops to raise awareness, challenge stereotypes and to focus on current thinking among the First Nations of the Americas.
    The Gathering was inspired by the Treaty House project, originated and led by Native American ex-pats living in the UK, with support and approval from Indigenous elders and communities from the US. It is an idea in the making. A Native American cultural and political centre in London, run by First American Nations, providing a focal point for thousands of ex-pats living in Europe. Treaty House is to be a 'European Native American Embassy', a resource centre, point of contact and a cultural bridge for the host community, disseminating information from source, organising and hosting a variety of cultural and political events and producing publications aimed at promoting a true and contemporary image of Native American Nations into the mainstream.
    With this aim, we are organising the international First Nations Gathering for 2008 or 2009. Funds raised from the Gathering will go towards setting up Treaty House.

 
( The article quoted above continues )

Quote
A meeting was held with representatives of Indigenous People, the
Native Spirit Festival, First Nations Gathering and the Synergy Centre
to plan and co-ordinate the event for next year. The FNG team includes
:
    ·   Zoi Lightfoot of the Anishinabe Nation, a lawyer for Native
American rights in the UN, living in London.
   ·   Linda Lou Flewin of the Mi'kmaq Nation, a business
entrepreneur, living in Wiltshire.
   ·   Liz Roemer of the Creek/Cherokee Nation
, a retired American
Navy IT professional, living in Berkshire.
   ·   Sanda Kolar, a film / documentary maker with strong links to
American indigenous communities, living in London.
   FNG have strong links with the Leonard Peltier Defense Campaign,
and with a large network of indigenous performers and campaigners,
including Warrior Artist Productions, who perform "My Life Is My Sun"
by Lenoard Peltier, accompanied by an exhibition of his artwork.
Strong links also exist with the Kevin Locke Native Dance Ensemble and
associated artists, Blackfire and the Jones Benally Family and Joanne
Shenandoah among other Native American performers, artists, spiritual
leaders and intellectuals confirmed for this years Gathering. "
I have yet to recieve any reply from Zoi .

I have a number of concerns .

In my dictionary the definition of the word "Embassy" is

1 The position of an ambassador:also his official recidence

2 an ambassador and his assistents

and the definition of ambassador is;

1 A government agent of the highest rank representing his countries
interests at a foriegn capital

2 any representive or agent charged with a special mission

If Treaty House is to be an "Native American Embassy" in Europe it
seems there needs to be at least a few federally recognized tribes which officially endorse and support this idea.  So far I haven't found one.

If this so called "Embassy" does have the approval of the tribal Nations , as is claimed it seems "the public" should be able to easily confirm that the organizers of this do in fact have this approval.  Instead, my requests for a way to verify this have either been ignored or met with verbal abuse and threats. After emailing an organization in Europe asking if they knew Zoi I learned my inquirey had been passed on to Zoi and Linda Lou Flewin and I recieved an email from Linda Lou threatening to "track me down" and "deal with me". This is not an appropriate response when people have questions about the legitimacy of Treaty House.

My next concern is that everbody I have seen associsted with Treaty House seems to be only marginally connected with any Native community. 

Linda Lou has posted quite a bit of her genealogy and life story on line over the years, and according to her she has Mi'kmaq blood through her mother and was adopted by a family in the UK , where she was raised. As an adult she has visited the Mi'kmaq community where she has been accepted by some of the people as family. I'm not sure about some of the details, but peoples private lives and personalities aren't really the concern of this message board.  I see no reason to doubt the basic story Linda Lou tells, but I do question her right to create a political organization referred to as an "Native American Embassy " representing Native people in the UK, and to be the "Consular Director of Canadian Affairs " for this organization.

Liz Roemer was affiliated with the Blackwater Muskogee. A thread on that group is here;

http://www.newagefraud.org/smf/index.php?topic=1735.0

On page 4 in reply Reply #86 there is emails recieved from the federally recognized Muskogee saying they do not recognize the Blackwater Muskogee as a tribe or a Nation and they have no right to represent them in Europe.

Although Zoi retracted her support when it could no longer be denied this group was making bogus claims , both Zoi and Linda Lou were adamant supporters of these distant descendents right to call themselves a tribe and a Nation and attacked the people questioning this right.

http://www.newagefraud.org/smf/index.php?topic=1739.0

Zoi has also been a defender and supporter of the person who was posting here as Tsisqua. This is especially concerning as this support appeared to be given even after it was pointed out Tsisqua's organization NAU was stealing the names of incarcerated American Indians to create the illusion of having associates and relatives in the Native community. One of my initial concerns about Tsisqua and NAU , was it's claim to be uniting Native voices for political purposes, when there seemed to be no way of verifying how many of the members of NAU were actually enrolled NDNs. Without any way to confirm this, it looked more likely to be a group uniting wannabes into a potentially political voice. Bear Warrior one of the Chiefs of the so called United People of the Cherokee Nation was listed as a member of NAU and his contributions were posted on NAU's webpages. Zoi Lightfoot and Linda Lou Flewin were also listed as members of NAU.

While every online group has a problem with people misrepresenting themselves, NAU members were very defensive of all their members right to claim a political identity as NDN. 

http://www.newagefraud.org/smf/index.php?topic=1674.0

To see Zoi defending Tsisqua and NAU see reply  #13

and Reply #72 page 3 , reply #77 page 4

and also the thread

http://www.newagefraud.org/smf/index.php?topic=1751.25

page 2 see reply 47 and 48  and page 3 reply #53

Zoi once again repeats this pattern of being associated with questionable groups claiming to be political entities when she seems to be claiming to know and be involved with Chief April St Francis Merrill

http://www.newagefraud.org/smf/index.php?topic=1722.25
Reply #45
Zoi Lightfoot
Quote
I DO accociate with the Abenaki as well as other communities and Nations,due to my UN work and the europeon based consular facility OWNED by the Indian Nations(of which I am its current legal director)
Reply #46
Zoi Lightfoot     
Quote
Direct question here Paul,and i am just the messenger this time.

Question:
"Who is your Chief? and what is your tribe?"
That comes from
Chief April St Francis Merrill
Abenaki Nation.
Reply #52
Zoi Lightfoot

Quote
i will send you deatils of the gathering of our nations in the uk next year when the dates been finalized as we should have the Abenaki (and others) chief present

I don't know if this below is true ... But if it is, this Abenaki tribes legitimacy  sounds
very questionable ...

It was posted here
http://indianz.com/board/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=31372

http://threeoaks.dakotablogs.com/2008/03/27/iaca-board-under-attack-for-supporting-pl-101-64

Quote
"The decade of the 1970's started an amazing series of events that
included thousands of individuals across the Eastern Coast and
throughout the Southeast suddenly sticking their heads out from the
underground and proclaiming to be American Indian. The whole show
reminds me of little groundhogs who, instead of determining if winter
will last longer, poke their heads up to see if they can be "Indian"
or not.

It didn't take long for organizers to gather up complete strangers and
form Indian "bands" that "existed from time immemorial". One such
group, formed in Vermont during the mid-1970's, called itself the St.
Francis /Sokoki Band of Abenakis. It didn't take long for the
organization to add it's name to the clogging arteries of the BIA
Federal Recognition folks. After extensive studies of the
organization, it's claims, and it's individuals, the BIA declined to
recognize the group as a "tribe" in 2007.Besides failing four out of
the seven mandatory criteria for acknowledgment, it was found that
only eight individuals out of the 1,171 members could demonstrate
descent from a Missisquoi Abenaki Indian Ancestor. Non of the other
members could document ancestors from the Abenaki, or any other Indian
tribe. All eight descended from the same person, Simon Obomsawin
(originally from Canada) . In addition, these eight did not become
involved with the group until the 1990's."

I don't mean to take away from peoples connection with their ancestors. But when this becomes mainly non native people claiming a political identity , this does become a problem , and is seen as a threat to recognition and the soverienty of many indigenous Nations.

http://taskforce.cherokee.org/

Quote
"Welcome To taskforce.cherokee.org

Cherokee Nation (Fraudulent Indian) Task Force

A battle for what it means to be an Indian tribe and a struggle for
benefits provided to Indians is currently being waged by groups
seeking to take away the identity and benefits that have been reserved
to federally recognized Indian tribes. Hundreds of false Indian groups
are claiming to be sovereign tribes and are teaching their own
fabricated culture and history as if it were Indian. They apply for
and receive aid from the same sources that fund the historic treaty
based obligations intended for Indians. Yet they do not measure up to
the credentials required of true tribes.

Excerpt from "Sovereignty At Risk" document

The Task Force consists of volunteers from various areas of Cherokee
Nation as well as volunteers from other organizations and tribes. The
purpose of this task force is to provide information to the general
public and local/state/federal government representatives, expose
false Native American tribes, also referred to as wannabe's, and
defend the Sovereignty, History, and Culture of federally recognized
tribes."
Here is another description of how these people wrongly assuming Tribal identities are affecting true First Nations ability to have their rights and very existence recognized

http://bsnorrell.blogspot.com/2008/05/mohawk-nation-news-algonquins-land.html

Zoi has repetedly said she is working in the UN on behalf of indigenous peoples. I haven't seen much evidence of this,  but if she is , when I see Zoi defending so many bogus groups claiming to be indigenous political entities I  find that a bit scary.

Someone wrongly representing colonists and settlers who over time can claim some distant native descent , as oppressed indigenous Nations and peoples to the UN , could create a lot of confusion and muddy the issues when it comes to people abroad being able to recognize the rights and very existence of the true continuously existing and long suffering indigenous Nations on this continent.

On the positive side , I have found evidence that Zoi has been involved in the LPDC over in Europe for at least 15 years, and one European organization had good things to say about her. However , it is not for this European organization to give their approval for a Native American Embassy.

I am still concerned that no one in the North American Native community seems to know who she is or knows her family. That seems very odd.

And I doubt having been involved in the LPDC and confronting frauds or being a member of NAFPS gives people the right to claim to be an Native American Embassy in Europe. 

I would really appreciate it if Zoi could provide some way of confirming that this organization Treaty House really does have the support and approval of a number of federally recognized tribes or First Nations.

As i don't think members of NAFPS have a right to approve such an organization , I would ask that online friends don't jump in to say how much they like Zoi and associated people as that is really beside the point. This approval needs to come from federally recognized Tribal councils.

If this is a legit organization the run around and abuse i have recieved trying to verify that this approval exists is really appauling.
« Last Edit: December 18, 2008, 07:02:27 pm by Moma_porcupine »

Offline zoi lightfoot

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Re: Statement from Zoi Lightfoot - Director of Legal Affairs Treaty House UK
« Reply #32 on: December 19, 2008, 11:42:58 am »
Now post the IPF,directors e mail to you in its entire response (both of them)I did get copies sent my dear along with everyone elses e mailed storm in a teacup.I believe you were advised NOT to approach them with aliases and cybertags,but to properly identify yourself.
Tsissy can and is capable of defending herself,you be careful with your fanciful notions and look VERY carefully at what i have said to you or this forum personaly and what i have not.
You were informed about synergy before you posted this,Like it or not you are going to have to go back a lot further than a comment made about me by Kola/IPF in the late 90s.Been organising that particular ANNUAL event for 29 years now.

Offline Moma_porcupine

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Re: Statement from Zoi Lightfoot - Director of Legal Affairs Treaty House UK
« Reply #33 on: December 19, 2008, 03:07:56 pm »
Now post the IPF,directors e mail to you in its entire response (both of them)I did get copies sent my dear along with everyone elses e mailed storm in a teacup.I believe you were advised NOT to approach them with aliases and cybertags,but to properly identify yourself.
Tsissy can and is capable of defending herself,you be careful with your fanciful notions and look VERY carefully at what i have said to you or this forum personaly and what i have not.
You were informed about synergy before you posted this,Like it or not you are going to have to go back a lot further than a comment made about me by Kola/IPF in the late 90s.Been organising that particular ANNUAL event for 29 years now.

Does this mean your years of involvement in the European branch of the LPODC is your only reference? Does this mean the approval you have for a "consuluar facility" in Europe come from KOLA ? Is KOLA the "Nations" that you claim owns "Treaty House"? If your organization is legit why would you evade my request for references in some Tribal Councils?

I would like to post the emails i exchanged with KOLA on this board, but I am a bit suprised you would ask me to do this.

I am always careful to speak the truth , and I conduct myself in a way I am not ashamed to be accountable for. As far as my own behavior and reputation, I haver no problem posting any of this.

However as the general public is not in the same position as KOLA when it comes to verifying or refuting some of the concerns I raised , if your organization is legit , I would think publishing this might unfairly raise some questions which could damage your reputation .

Are you sure you want all that publicly posted?
 
It seems it would be better for you to just give the names of some people who can be contacted through some specific tribal councils who officially represent the Nations you claim approved and even OWN this consuler facility / embassy in Europe.

http://www.newagefraud.org/smf/index.php?topic=1722.25
Reply #45
Zoi Lightfoot
Quote
I DO accociate with the Abenaki as well as other communities and Nations,due to my UN work and the europeon based consular facility OWNED by the Indian Nations(of which I am its current legal director)

from the free on line dictionary

Quote
Consular
con·sul Pronunciation (knsl)
n. Abbr. Con. or Cons.
1. An official appointed by a government to reside in a foreign country and represent his or her government's commercial interests and assist its citizens there. See Usage Note at council.
2. Either of the two chief magistrates of the Roman Republic, elected for a term of one year.
3. Any of the three chief magistrates of the French Republic from 1799 to 1804.

« Last Edit: December 19, 2008, 03:23:20 pm by Moma_porcupine »

frederica

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Re: Statement from Zoi Lightfoot - Director of Legal Affairs Treaty House UK
« Reply #34 on: December 19, 2008, 05:31:47 pm »
Are both of you sure you want to do this here?  I believe I would think about it first.

Offline Moma_porcupine

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Re: Statement from Zoi Lightfoot - Director of Legal Affairs Treaty House UK
« Reply #35 on: December 19, 2008, 06:40:16 pm »
Frederica

Maybe I am missing something, but I really can't imagine any good reason that Zoi can't provide a way to verify that this organization does in fact have the backing of tribal Nations as claimed, or that this information as to how to verify this should be "private".

However I do trust Al's opinion and I will PM him , and see if he feels there is some reason this shouldn't be open to public discussion.

Offline Superdog

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Re: Statement from Zoi Lightfoot - Director of Legal Affairs Treaty House UK
« Reply #36 on: December 19, 2008, 09:52:44 pm »

Now this brings me to the Gathering. Given that the Grand Chief of the Mi’kmaq Nation has agreed in principle to attend the Gathering amongst others, given the way one of his peoples has been assaulted and racially abused, I can understand why this tiny minority of the hobbyist culture would be nervous about his presence. So let’s set the record straight shall we.


Let's just hope it's not John Williams (aka Grey Wolf, aka Loup Gris, aka the man who claims to have hereditary title over all the Wabanaki tribes and also claims to have copyrighted "Wabanaki" and threatens to sue Indian businesses who carry the name, aka loser.) 

More on J. Williams here with posts from moma porcupine from a few of his websites where he displays his self-proclaimed title of Grand Chief of the Wabanaki Nations

http://www.newagefraud.org/smf/index.php?topic=1187.0

Superdog
« Last Edit: December 20, 2008, 03:02:43 am by Superdog »

Offline ska

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Re: Statement from Zoi Lightfoot - Director of Legal Affairs Treaty House UK
« Reply #37 on: December 20, 2008, 01:59:10 am »
It is very odd to not be able to find any mention of a "Treaty House" online, particularly when people are throwing around terms like "consular director of Canadian Affairs" with respect to this or related organizations.  Surely, anyone who openly claims such a title should be able to substantiate it quite easily.  Indeed, someone who holds such an office is a public servant and, in revealing their identity, has a professional duty to provide substantiation for such claims, IMHO.

Sorry, I can't claim to take the care and effort that Mama P does when citing who said what, but a very odd claim that someone made in this thread was that Ms. Lightfoot is a "lawyer for American Indian rights in the UN"?  I can't make any sense of this.  Which group or organization is represented by this work?  Ms. Lightfoot, do you represent Indigenous persons/Nations or do you work for the UN?  The statement is very vague.

I lived in London for several years, and the only place I ever heard of called Treaty House was in Uxbridge (Treaty of Ghent and all that jazz).  But there is nothing online about this other "Treaty House" to reveal the existence of this supposedly formalized organization whose use of diplomatic language (eg. consul, etc) seems to suggest that they are representatives of a government of a nation-state formally recognized by the UN.  Like Mama P, I've tried to find further information, since such an organization sounds very important and I'm rather embarrassed that I have never heard of their seemingly important work.  But when I try to find anything related, all I get is a Myspace link:

http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendID=200142531

Nor could I find any information through the Canadian High Commission in the UK (it is not referred to as a consulate) which can be accessed online at:

http://www.dfait-maeci.gc.ca/missions/unitedkingdom-royaumeuni/menu-eng.asp

While I can understand the concern of certain groups who may not want to respond to Mama P's inquiries, given that she chooses to remain anonymous, this is a problem that can be easily remedied, as there are many members of this site who have publicly revealed their identities.  If a "meatspace" (real world) identity and name is required in order to have Mama P's questions answered, I'm sure the same inquires could be re-sent and signed (perhaps) by a moderator of this site, or perhaps by Dr. Carrall himself.  His open use of his real name and his status as a Fullbright scholar should certainly satisfy the need to provide a real name to groups who may or may not be able to shed more light on "Treaty House".  And by the way, which/what "treaties" are the focus of Treaty House? 

Ms. Lightfoot, if "Treaty House" is for-reals, please provide us with substantiation, and more information so that we can learn about the work that your organization has been doing.  That way those of us who have concerns can lay them to rest and then support and laud the work that you and others claim to be doing through this "consulate". 

Best, ska
« Last Edit: December 20, 2008, 02:13:14 am by ska »

frederica

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Re: Statement from Zoi Lightfoot - Director of Legal Affairs Treaty House UK
« Reply #38 on: December 20, 2008, 03:19:47 am »
This one is easier to see.  http://www.myspace.com/treatyhouse     Takes a few seconds

Offline ska

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Re: Statement from Zoi Lightfoot - Director of Legal Affairs Treaty House UK
« Reply #39 on: December 20, 2008, 05:01:20 am »
Thanks, Frederica, and apologies to everyone for not properly presenting the links.  My computer skills are quite limited.  best, ska

frederica

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Re: Statement from Zoi Lightfoot - Director of Legal Affairs Treaty House UK
« Reply #40 on: December 29, 2008, 01:21:14 am »
Improved Order of the Red Men=Free Masons?  I thought they died out in the 1900's. Mostly Irish.

Offline zoi lightfoot

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Re: Statement from Zoi Lightfoot - Director of Legal Affairs Treaty House UK
« Reply #41 on: December 29, 2008, 03:29:32 pm »
Then i suggest you take your arguement to the federal gov Sky,after all THEY recognize them and thier Chief.

Offline Moma_porcupine

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Re: Statement from Zoi Lightfoot - Director of Legal Affairs Treaty House UK
« Reply #42 on: December 29, 2008, 11:07:44 pm »
Sky knows a lot more than me but for people who want to see this from a independant source ,  the link below lists all the federally recognized tribes in the North East and this tribe is not on the list.

http://www.ncai.org/index.php?id=126&selectpro_area=8

I have seen them listed in some places as having State recognition ,

http://www.kstrom.net/isk/maps/tribesnonrec.html

but I've also seen where many federally recognized tribes feel the criteria used when a State recognizes a tribe is way too vauge and allows many people who aren't NDN at all to be State recognized - often because a State sees some advantage to it's image or economy in doing so.
------
edited to add
A bit of information from the Cherokee Task on State tribes and the problems associated with them can be seen in the link below

http://www.cherokeephoenix.org/2389/Article.aspx

Quote
"A lot of people try to use that (state recognition) as a stepping stone by stating that a state has already recognized them, therefore they have some sort of government-to-government relationship," Rhoades said.


Quote
"An average person can help stop these groups by writing a local legislator and pointing out that states should not be in a position of creating Indian nations," he said.

In the long run, Allen said, states not recognizing bogus groups would be a major step in stopping them.

"Ultimately, I think the elimination of state recognition would be one way of looking at it, but we don't want to do harm to those tribes who have a legitimate claim who yet haven't been able to determine what it is they require for federal recognition," he said.
-------------------------------

Maybe Zoi is a lawyer who works at the UN educating the international community about NDNs,  but she doesn't know the difference between federal recognition and state recognition.

Zoi
I would still appreciate it if you could give the names of some people who can be contacted through some specific federally recognized tribal governments who officially represent the Nations you claim approved and even OWN this consuler facility / embassy in Europe.

If you have the approval you claim,  I don't understand why this is something the general public should not be able to verify.
« Last Edit: December 30, 2008, 12:24:45 am by Moma_porcupine »


Offline bls926

  • Posts: 655
Re: Statement from Zoi Lightfoot - Director of Legal Affairs Treaty House UK
« Reply #44 on: December 30, 2008, 07:42:03 am »
Quote
Currently there are no Federal and/or State Recognized Native American Tribes and/or Bands in Vermont.

Apparently they have neither federal nor state recognition.


Chief April and the St Francis aka Sokoki aka Missisquoi Abenaki wouldn't be the first group of frauds that Zoi Lightfoot supported and defended.

Does The Blackwater Band of Muskogee/Larry Nichols/Liz Roemer ring a bell? When presented with evidence that neither the Creek Nation nor the Poarch Band recognizes the Blackwater Band nor Nichols and Roemer, Lightfoot reluctantly quit trying to defend the Blackwaters but continues to support Nichols and Roemer. Liz Roemer is a member of Treaty House.

Lightfoot continues to support Tsisqua, a proven fraud. Also a member of Treaty House.

I haven't been able to find anything connecting Lightfoot with the U.N., AIM, the Anishnabe, White Earth Reservation. The only people talking about Zoi Lightfoot are her friends and Zoi herself.

Yes, I have read where she's been active with LPDC and LPDOC. Lots of people are. I'm skeptical of her claim to being Peltier's cousin. His family doesn't know who she is.

Yes, Lightfoot is connected to Treaty House. But, what is Treaty House? An embassy? Hardly. Treaty House is a myspace account, nothing more.

I have yet to find one person who knows Zoi Lightfoot. Some have heard her name before, but don't know who she is.

How can anyone take either Zoi Lightfoot or Treaty House seriously?
« Last Edit: December 30, 2008, 07:44:37 am by bls926 »