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Ayahuasca in Canada?

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Mr.Michif:
Hey everyone, I am new to this website so please forgive me if I posted this in the wrong area.

I recently went to a medicine ceremony for Ayahuasca near my home. It was run by two European men that had studied in a place called Flor Astral in Costa Rica. Apparently, this place was based on the Santo Diame tradition? I did some brief research on Santo Diame, and from what I gathered it is a religion based on the combination of several different religions as well as the Shapibo indigenous spirituality.

They were welcoming, and although inexperienced, they were very transparent about the extent of training they had been through. Because it was just a small group of us, most were close friends, I did feel as though they were trying to run a business or be something they are not.

They charged what they had said the medicine cost them to bring up which was 30, and then everyone chipped in evenly to rent the space we were in. Everyone brought food to share.

I am still unsure how I feel about this. In the way I am learning now, medicine and ceremonies should not be paid for. But I also understand that this medicine is not native to North America and that by themselves they are not able to afford to pay for everyone to sit.

As a side note, I have seen social work organizations paying Elders' salaries to share teachings and hold Sweat Lodges, which I think is a great idea, but still, runs contrary to the idea that ceremonies should not be paid for.

I offered tobacco before I drank, and I asked one of the hosts to use sage that I had picked to smudge the medicine which they did respectfully.

Please let me know your opinions on how you feel about this, I really appreciate the guidance.

Laurel:
Oh dear.

I'm sure others will be more eloquent, but this is simply not right. In the first place, the medicine was taken out of context and administered by people who admittedly had very little idea what they were doing. You could have been poisoned.

In the second place, it isn't just paying for a ceremony that makes it a ripoff, spiritually bankrupt, or however you wish to phrase it. It's also a matter of using something that does not belong to you without permission. You seem to assume that if you were where ayahuasca grows naturally, you and everyone you know would be welcome to "sit" and partake of this medicine and ceremony simply because you want to. Some Native people with no values do make things like that available, mostly for the money and attention it brings them. They're generally frowned upon.

This is all very vague because I don't know much about ayahuasca or its culture. (I'm white.) But I've mostly-lurked on this board for many years. I hope you're serious about taking the advice you'll get here, because I don't think it will be encouraging you to repeat this experience. Adding a medicine person to a ripoff bullshit sweatlodge for whitefolks does not make it an inipi, and having someone from Santo Dime present while you took ayahuasca would not have made that right, either.


--- Quote from: Mr.Michif on February 02, 2021, 02:01:58 am ---Hey everyone, I am new to this website so please forgive me if I posted this in the wrong area.

I recently went to a medicine ceremony for Ayahuasca near my home. It was run by two European men that had studied in a place called Flor Astral in Costa Rica. Apparently, this place was based on the Santo Diame tradition? I did some brief research on Santo Diame, and from what I gathered it is a religion based on the combination of several different religions as well as the Shapibo indigenous spirituality.

They were welcoming, and although inexperienced, they were very transparent about the extent of training they had been through. Because it was just a small group of us, most were close friends, I did feel as though they were trying to run a business or be something they are not.

They charged what they had said the medicine cost them to bring up which was 30, and then everyone chipped in evenly to rent the space we were in. Everyone brought food to share.

I am still unsure how I feel about this. In the way I am learning now, medicine and ceremonies should not be paid for. But I also understand that this medicine is not native to North America and that by themselves they are not able to afford to pay for everyone to sit.

As a side note, I have seen social work organizations paying Elders' salaries to share teachings and hold Sweat Lodges, which I think is a great idea, but still, runs contrary to the idea that ceremonies should not be paid for.

I offered tobacco before I drank, and I asked one of the hosts to use sage that I had picked to smudge the medicine which they did respectfully.

Please let me know your opinions on how you feel about this, I really appreciate the guidance.

--- End quote ---

Mr.Michif:

--- Quote from: Laurel on February 02, 2021, 12:54:47 pm ---
In the second place, it isn't just paying for a ceremony that makes it a ripoff, spiritually bankrupt, or however, you wish to phrase it. It's also a matter of using something that does not belong to you without permission.
--- End quote ---

How would one know if the people administering it has permission to do so? I know that in terms of Sweats, Sundances and other sacred Ceremonies, rights to hold that space are more clear, even after researching the origins of Ayahuasca, there is a rigorous training period for the Shapibo people to becoming medicine person. But it is more unclear when it goes into Santo Daime because the leaders do not call themselves medicine people, they drink also and call themselves facilitators, and seem more like a Pastor than a medicine person.


--- Quote from: Laurel on February 02, 2021, 12:54:47 pm --- You seem to assume that if you were where ayahuasca grows naturally, you and everyone you know would be welcome to "sit" and partake of this medicine and ceremony simply because you want to. Some Native people with no values do make things like that available
--- End quote ---

I guess this part also confuses me a little and forgive me if I am ignorant to how other Sweats are run because I have only been to a few different ones. I was under the impression that most Sweat Lodges are open to people if they have received the call to walk that path and have a connection that is willing to take them to the Sweat Lodge.

The ones I have sat in, use the medicine in the ceremony that is not naturally grown in the area because it was traded or gifted with good intention. I guess this is another area I have gotten conflicting teachings on. Because tobacco is hard to come across naturally in the wild. I was taught that purchasing at a store to gift my Elders is ok as long as you give an offering for it afterwords and smudge it, letting the creator know your intention. Does the same then not apply to Medicines like Ayahuasca?

Defend the Sacred:
Non-Natives shouldn't be selling this substance or the ceremonies surrounding it.

Even if money were not involved they should not be doing this for people in another country where all the spirits are different and people have no connection to the traditions. It's cultural theft and harmful to both the original cultures, the people placing their trust in them, and the vine iteself.

The vine is now endangered, and the non-Natives selling this lack the cultural context to do it properly, as do the customers who are buying from them. It's wrong. Elders from the legitimate cultures where these traditions originate have reached out to Elders from our communities to plead that we help stop this.

If you search from the main page, you'll find lots of threads on the harm done to the cultures this is stolen from, as well as the harm done to those buying it. Here's just one discussion we had: http://www.newagefraud.org/smf/index.php?topic=4585.0

Mr.Michif:

https://santodaime.ca/

https://chacruna.net/mestre-irineu-ayahuasca/

After reading that article, it sounded like the man who started the religion in the 1930's did so with the guidance of visions from the creator, as well as support for Shapibo Elders. It is with that lineage that places like Ceu du Montreal were granted permission to carry out what they call "the works" as opposed to a Ceremony.

In many ways, I see at least this form of use, one of the creator's chosen paths for how humans should interact with the medicine. But I am curious how you see this.

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