NAFPS Forum

General => Frauds => Topic started by: Chaska on January 11, 2008, 07:04:56 pm

Title: John Roos, claiming enrollment with lakota nation
Post by: Chaska on January 11, 2008, 07:04:56 pm
Be Warned: There is an individual named John Roos in the Knoxville Tennessee area claiming to be enrolled in the Lakota Nation.  This is false, as John Roos is Italian.  John Roos also claims to have received authorizations to conduct ceremonies from Chief David Swallow and Mike LittleBoy Sr.  These ceremonies are purification ceremonies called Lakota Family Sweatlodges.  This, again, is false as John Roos cannot sing any ceremonial songs nor does he know any traditional protocol or the Lakota Language.
John Roos currently is moderating a Recovery Program in the Knoxville area and in a recent newspaper article he claims he is an enrolled Lakota Nation member. Newspaper article (http://thedailytimes.com/article/20071105/LIFE03/71104024)
John Roos attends sundances and uses these sacred experiences to impress those around him that he is a knowledgable Traditional person.  He also uses the Recovery Programs to single out women.  This person needs to be investigated because he confuses many people under the pretext of spiritual ways.  He uses a BIC lighter in these purification ceremonies to convince those participating that the "Lights" are the spirits.  He is obsessed with assuming the role of being an Indian person.
Title: Re: John Roos, claiming enrollment with lakota nation
Post by: Barnaby_McEwan on January 11, 2008, 07:18:12 pm
Hello and welcome. Can you tell us a little more about this person? How did you hear about him?
Title: Re: John Roos, claiming enrollment with lakota nation
Post by: frederica on January 11, 2008, 07:22:22 pm
Here is a recent article. http://thedailytimes.com/article/20071105/LIFE03/71104024  Most everything else on the internet is the same. Ads for this program. Where does he claim to be enrolled?
Title: Re: John Roos, claiming enrollment with lakota nation
Post by: Chaska on January 12, 2008, 04:09:34 am
I first had contact with John Roos in Tampa Florida, at that time I had moved there to be with my wife's father, who was in his late 80's and requested our presence.  We moved and had 3 acres of land, so I put up a purification lodge and conducted purification ceremonies.   I learned of another purification lodge in St. Pete Florida at a persons house, named Ken Culp.  This Lodge had been erected by John Roos several years earlier and he left it to continue at Ken Culp's house.  I was told that John Roos had been authorized to put up Purification Lodges by Mr. David Swallow and Mr. Mike Little Boy...I went to participate in ceremony, but soon learned that those there had no knowledge of what they were doing and were trying to do ceremony, I told them to cease attempting to do a ceremony and that they needed to learn the songs and have Traditional elders instruct them as participants and that they had no authorization to conduct any type of ceremony.  They were mixed blood people and did not know hardly any protocols, besides burning sage and offering prayers to the Great Spirit.  The explained to me that a sundancer named John Roos had put the Purification lodge up there and left it to them to do.  I invited them to the Purification lodge on our property and conducted ceremony while explaining protocols and prayed with them.  Soon after that I received a phone call from Colorado, from john Roos, he asked me for help.  He had a run in with the Mike Little Boy family in Pine Ridge and walked away from them because of dope use by the sons of Mike Little Boy, he explained he was tired of "doing all the work for them"....he also explained his association with Dave Swallow and that Dave Swallow authorized him to conduct ceremony and put up Purification Lodges where he seen fit to build one, "to help the people".  I explained that I knew of these people indirectly (Dave Swallow and Mike Little Boy) but never met them.  I explained that my Elders had instructed me from a early age of traditional spiritual ceremonies and that I have authorization to conduct ceremony, I pointed out what was lacking at the ken Culp residence where HE (John Roos) put up a Purification Lodge, that he needed to be with them, instead of abandoning them to do as they pleased in the name of conducting ceremony.  He agreed to come down to Florida from Colorado and I counseled him about his problems, which were many, some were mental problems.  I cautioned him about claiming he was authorized to conduct ceremonies, when he didnt know any songs, or even knew how to sing one single song associated with ceremony.  He also didnt know the language, but knew bits and pieces of the language and pronounced the language like a boy scout would.  I told him that in order to conduct ceremony, that the Elders and Medicine people would be the ones to authorize it and the Elders and Medicine people would have to know that he knew the protocols and songs with the ceremony.  John Roos then told me that during the Sundance at Dave Swallows, that Dave Swallow had conducted several purification ceremonies during the day and asked him (John Roos) to pour water in one ceremony.  I told John Roos, that THAT was not authorization, that was help.  Over a period of a year of helping John Roos, he never made any attempt at learning songs or the language and I began to suspect that things he had told me were fabrications.  He claimed " he was adopted out as a child and that he was Oglala", then he changed it to "the elders at the Sundance had adopted him"......he made reference to a elder lady named "Wilma" and another lady named "Babette ThinElk", John Roos claimed that his tribal I.D's and paperwork were stolen by someone at Mike Little Boys.
I decided to check on these stories through friends in Pine Ridge area.
meanwhile, John Roos, made a claim that he was part of a Tokala Society under Gerald Ice (Pine Ridge) and asked me IF I knew about Tokala Societies, I explained that Tokala Society's were a internal warrior society, warriors to protect the people, John Roos wanted to start a Tokala Society in Florida, I told him that in order to start a society, that he would have to speak to Mr. Gerald Ice and Chief Crowdog, who would instruct him about what he would have to do, namely protect the Indian people and stand up for their concerns, and once it becomes known among the elders and traditional people, then it is THEY who would speak for beginning a society to Traditional Leaders.

Several people who participated in Purification ceremonies on our property in Florida began to be concerned about john Roos and his attitude towards them, particularily towards women....they felt threatened by him and noticed rude comments he would make towards them.  I cautioned John Roos and reminded him that Women were sacred in the Traditional spiritual ways.  I was informed by Ken Culp that John Roos was doing drugs and preying on women in the St. Pete area who were participating in Drug rehab, impressing upon them that he was a Sundancer and a man of great Knowledge, a warrior.  I told Ken Culp, that those things were John Roos's business and that as long as it doesnt interfere with those participating in ceremony on our property, it was best to stay out of it.
We then began our move to Tennessee, three families in florida moved up in the Knoxville Tennessee area and John Roos stayed with one of the families.  We never invited John Roos to any ceremony on our property in Tennessee, I determined that John Roos was lying about many things to all, I learned that the Tribal Enrollement in Aberdeen South Dakota, Bureau of Indian Affairs, had no John Roos as a Tribal member of any Federally Recognized Tribe.  I seen documents that John Roos and others had made out on a Tribal member from Pine Ridge, named Billy Good Voice Elk Jr., claiming that Billy Good Voice Elk had bilked them for money.  I avoided John Roos and others until I seen a article in a local newspaper that John Roos, a Lakota was moderating a Recovery Program under White Bison Inc. in the Knoxville Area.  I called the administrator of the Recovery Program, named Valerie Ohle, I spoke to her about John Roos, and informed Valerie Ohle, that John Roos was not a lakota.   Valerie Ohle, explained to me that she HAD TO utilize John Roos, because she had the Recovery Program in place and that John Roos volunteered to moderate the Program.   I realized i was talking to a brick wall, Valerie Ohle was only concerned about have the Recovery Program procede irregardless of John Roos frauding himself to her and all that he was a Lakota.
I had already contacted Arrvol Looking Horse (Keeper of the Sacre Pipe and Ceremonies) and Paula Horne, as well as other Traditional leaders about John Roos and his activities. 
Then, a few days ago a news article appeared explaining the Recovery program with John Roos, now, a enrolled Lakota.
I felt that this fraud had now taken another step.  I contacted the Editor and corrected him about John Roos, being a enrolled member of the Lakota Nation.  It was a outright lie.
Today, I recieved word from the Editor (email) and learned that John Roos, was his room mate and friend.....(should have known, but need the truth to be known)

I have docuementation and others willing to collaborate on the information I have given.


                                                                                      Chaska Denny
Title: Re: John Roos, claiming enrollment with lakota nation
Post by: frederica on January 12, 2008, 05:41:20 am
What I see is the program is part of the Holston Conference of the United Methodist Church in Alcola Tennessee PO Box 850 Toll Free Number 866-690-4080. They have this program under a Mission Statement (Native American Ministries). Chairperson Vicki Collins Oak Ridge. District Committee Clergy Debbie Glen Vice President. Valarie Brestel-Ohle is listed as one of several Lay members of the Mission. Doesn't say if there is a fee or not. Might be easier to deal with the Methodist Church. A lot of the papers in those areas print stories without validation.
Title: Re: John Roos, claiming enrollment with lakota nation
Post by: gdmedicine on January 12, 2008, 10:04:28 pm
i would like to ask people that are concerned about Mr. Roos activity to contact the national headquarters of the Methodist church and ask for a formal investigation by the church into this fraud as it seems some of the funding and endorsement is coming from Methodist church.  Indeed, in the newspaper article there is a statement at the end that lists Mr. Roos as an "enrolled" Lakota.
Title: Re: John Roos, claiming enrollment with lakota nation
Post by: gdmedicine on January 13, 2008, 09:55:48 pm
I just rec ieved an email which was originated by steve wikdsmith, who is the weekend editor of the Daily Times in Knoxville, TN in which Mr. Wildsmith admits that not only is John Roos  his roomate, but the John Roos is NOT INDIAN...NOT ENROLLED...AND IS ACTUALLY POLISH!!! of course John Roos would like for this to be left alone and forgotten about...but now is where the real work begins.  Not only do the people providing the funding for the recovery program need to be notified..but more importantly our indian people that have been participating in these ceremonies and this recovery program need to be informed.  THEN...the administration over this program has a responsibility to the native community to put a stop to this outrage.  The administration has a responsibility to the people and the program to make things right number one by bringing this all out in the open to all involved parties.  then they need to go about it in a good way and find a REAL INDIAN who is enrolled who has the proper training and knowledge and who can conduct these ceremonies in a good way that will really make a difference and help the people.  sgi
Title: Re: John Roos, claiming enrollment with lakota nation
Post by: educatedindian on January 13, 2008, 10:19:05 pm
I haven't had any luck finding anything other than the mentions of him in WHite Bison.

Chaska and gdmedicine, if you have the authors' permissions, could you repost the emails?
Title: Re: John Roos, claiming enrollment with lakota nation
Post by: gdmedicine on January 13, 2008, 10:41:38 pm
we were tryng to figure out how to post emails to this site but couldnt figure out how to do so...please advise how
sgi
Title: Re: John Roos, claiming enrollment with lakota nation
Post by: sapa on January 13, 2008, 11:44:30 pm

If you dont mind, what can you tell me about Mike Little Boy. There is someone with a name very similar that has been coming to Ga. to run sundance ceremony.
Thanks, Sapa
Title: Re: John Roos, claiming enrollment with lakota nation
Post by: Cetan on January 14, 2008, 02:07:59 am
I know of Mike Little Boy  from Porcupine SD. He is a respected ceremonial man in his community, I never heard of him travelling.
Title: Re: John Roos, claiming enrollment with lakota nation
Post by: Barnaby_McEwan on January 14, 2008, 10:03:52 am
gdmedicine, the simplest way would be to copy the relevant text from the emails, and paste it into a message.

Here's a page of information with lots of detail on how to post:

http://www.newagefraud.org/smf/index.php?action=help;page=post
Title: Re: John Roos, claiming enrollment with lakota nation
Post by: gdmedicine on January 15, 2008, 05:41:59 am
--Forwarded Message Attachment--
From: steve.wildsmith@thedailytimes.com
Subject: Re: John Roos
Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2008 12:10:05 -0500
To: waminega@yahoo.com

OK, you're right - "Wannabe John" is not an Indian ... he's not enrolled ...  he's not even Italian. He's Polish! So now that you've heard what you want to hear, "Wannabe John" strongly suggests that you leave it alone.


Furthermore, I would again ask that you not contact me.


Sincerely,


Steve
Title: Re: John Roos, claiming enrollment with lakota nation
Post by: gdmedicine on January 15, 2008, 05:46:36 am
removed at request of author
Title: Re: John Roos, claiming enrollment with lakota nation
Post by: Most_Respectful on January 28, 2008, 07:44:50 pm
Interesting. Any furhter developments on this?

[Barnaby's note: this user signed up using the address steve.wildsmith@thedailytimes.com
As he says...interesting.]
Title: Re: John Roos, claiming enrollment with lakota nation
Post by: Most_Respectful on January 28, 2008, 08:39:37 pm
Yes. And I'll be happy to share my thoughts/opinions/take on this whole matter with anyone who wants to hear it. As you all know, there are two sides to every story. Mr. Denny has a right to his opinion, but there's more to his targeting of John than meets the eye. As for the e-mails we exchanged, I'm more than willing to post my response to what he sent me.
Title: Re: John Roos, claiming enrollment with lakota nation
Post by: Barnaby_McEwan on January 28, 2008, 09:03:21 pm
So why not just get on with it?

Actually why not let Roos - apparently a friend of yours - borrow your computer, sign up here, and tell his side of the story himself? The sign-up procedure isn't too hard, and you've done it, so you can help him with it.
Title: Re: John Roos, claiming enrollment with lakota nation
Post by: Most_Respectful on January 28, 2008, 09:36:09 pm
I can suggest that, but he's more inclined to give Mr. Denny's accusations to Spirit. I'm more vocal and less inclined to see my friend's name and/or reputation maligned - especially when he's done nothing wrong. He's not holding "Indian 101" seminars ... he's not charging people to pray at the lodge (nor does he throw open the door to any and all who want to sweat because they think it would be "cool") ... he's not claiming to be a medicine man or a holy man ... and he's not using his position as chair of the talking staff recovery meeting as anything more than a moderator for those who wish to find recovery along the Red Road. The business arrangement between John and Chaska is a matter that came to a close between the two of them more than a year ago, but it seems someone still holds a grudge and is attempting to muddy the waters with inaccuracies and false accusations.
Title: Re: John Roos, claiming enrollment with lakota nation
Post by: Barnaby_McEwan on January 28, 2008, 09:51:42 pm
Ah, the "My spiritual buddy's too pure and good to soil his lily-white hands on the likes of you" defense.

Your own scramble for the moral high ground is similarly absurd. The guy is pretending to be a Lakota and you helped him do that with your Daily Times article, an inaccuracy you have not addressed. Next, still trying to help him I guess, you turn up here and get busted immediately while clumsily trying to find out what's going on without revealing who you are.

Ask yourself, who's getting the most out of this, Steve? You're the one who's making an ass of himself in public by covering for a fraud.
Title: Re: John Roos, claiming enrollment with lakota nation
Post by: earthw7 on January 28, 2008, 09:57:32 pm
I can suggest that, but he's more inclined to give Mr. Denny's accusations to Spirit. I'm more vocal and less inclined to see my friend's name and/or reputation maligned - especially when he's done nothing wrong. He's not holding "Indian 101" seminars ... he's not charging people to pray at the lodge (nor does he throw open the door to any and all who want to sweat because they think it would be "cool") ... he's not claiming to be a medicine man or a holy man ... and he's not using his position as chair of the talking staff recovery meeting as anything more than a moderator for those who wish to find recovery along the Red Road. The business arrangement between John and Chaska is a matter that came to a close between the two of them more than a year ago, but it seems someone still holds a grudge and is attempting to muddy the waters with inaccuracies and false accusations.

That is nice but if your not Indian then don't use the red road
Title: Re: John Roos, claiming enrollment with lakota nation
Post by: Moma_porcupine on January 28, 2008, 10:01:19 pm
http://thedailytimes.com/article/20071105/LIFE03/71104024 (http://thedailytimes.com/article/20071105/LIFE03/71104024)

Quote
The Sacred Tree Recovery Circle, part of the White Bison Society 12-Step program, meets from 7:30-9 p.m. every Sunday at Mountain View United Methodist Church, 3200 Old Maryville Pike (also known as Highway 33 or Old Knoxville Highway), just across the Blount/Knox county line. It’s open to all persons — Native Americans, whites and people of all ethnic descent — who are looking for a new spiritual program of recovery.

Those familiar with other 12-Step programs will find similarities in the way the White Bison Society meetings are conducted, but there are distinct differences as well — most related to Native American customs and traditions.


Quote
For more information on the White Bison Society, go online to www.whitebison.org. For information on the local Sacred Tree Recovery Circle meeting, call John Roos, an enrolled member of the Lakota Sioux, at 405-5698.

This article was written by;

Quote
Steve Wildsmith is a recovering addict and the Weekend editor for The Daily Times.

Reply #6 on: January 13, 2008, 02:55:48 pm »     
Quote
I just rec ieved an email which was originated by steve wikdsmith, who is the weekend editor of the Daily Times in Knoxville, TN in which Mr. Wildsmith admits that not only is John Roos  his roomate, but the John Roos is NOT INDIAN...NOT ENROLLED...AND IS ACTUALLY POLISH!!!

Reply #12
supposedly quoting an email from Steve Wildsmith;
Quote
OK, you're right - "Wannabe John" is not an Indian ... he's not enrolled ...  he's not even Italian. He's Polish!

Hi Most_Respectful and welcome

Putting everything else aside for the moment, I would like to ask if John Roos is an enrolled Lakota, and if he is not, why this was published? It may be that the person who posted this complaint has reasons of their own, but claiming to be able to support people in healing, and also to be someone you are not, is a serious contradiction.

A few things here are of concern.

First, as much as addiction recovery programs that are created for Native people need to be appropriate to Native culture and traditions, unless a person is Native or otherwise has a strong connection with a Native community, I really don't see any good reason to offer "Indianized" a 12 step programs.

As Earth says, unless Mr Roos is serving a large Lakota population in Tennessee, I fail to see what benift anyone expects to find in pretending a 12 step program is a partly based in Lakota traditions.
 
Second, addiction recovery programs and other rehabilitation groups often make the mistake of hiring dishonest and unskilled people just because the job applicant says they have training in Native healing.  Non native people often haven't got a clue what that is, all sorts of unsavory characters get hired. As these programs work with some of the most vulnerable people in society, it is very important that the people who are hired to support their recovery are entirely honest and comfortable with who they really are. If someone is really Polish but is claiming to be Lakota, it seems highly unlikely they are going to have the skills to help anyone come to terms with themselves in a real way.

Lastly, a lot of Elders are really uncomfortable to see young people learning distorted traditions from rehabilitation programs. Here is an on line example of some of the concerns;

http://interact.cbc.ca/pipermail/hotsheets/2005-August/000296.html (http://interact.cbc.ca/pipermail/hotsheets/2005-August/000296.html)

Quote
FIRST VOICE:
 
The Healing Circus today on First Voice. The word "healing" is everywhere these days - there are hundreds of treatment programs out there to help aboriginal people get over their addictions and residential school trauma. But are native spiritual traditions being distorted and ultimately lost as a result? Roger Roulette thinks so. He's an Ojibway linguist and translator, and the son of an esteemed medicine man. Hear his critique of the modern native healing industry, today on First Voice, with Carol Morin, this morning at 9:30 (10 NT) on CBC Radio One.
 

If this is a misunderstanding perhaps either you or Mr Roos can  explain.     
Title: Re: John Roos, claiming enrollment with lakota nation
Post by: Most_Respectful on January 28, 2008, 10:02:27 pm
He's not "claiming." He's enrolled through his adopted mother, Muriel Ashmore, buried on Dave Swallow's property.
Title: Re: John Roos, claiming enrollment with lakota nation
Post by: Most_Respectful on January 28, 2008, 10:15:45 pm
Ah, the "My spiritual buddy's too pure and good to soil his lily-white hands on the likes of you" defense.

Your words, not mine.

Your own scramble for the moral high ground is similarly absurd.
How is defending a friend a "scramble for the moral high ground"?

The guy is pretending to be a Lakota and you helped him do that with your Daily Times article, an inaccuracy you have not addressed.
John says he's enrolled and he's shown me the paperwork. Chaska says he isn't. For you to ask for "more research," you seem awfully quick to judge and take sides.

Next, still trying to help him I guess, you turn up here and get busted immediately while clumsily trying to find out what's going on without revealing who you are.
If I wanted to hide who I was, I wouldn't have registered under my own e-mail. As soon as you pointed it out, I admitted it. Doesn't appear like I'm hiding anything.

Ask yourself, who's getting the most out of this, Steve? You're the one who's making an ass of himself in public by covering for a fraud.
Again, you're awfully quick to take sides. I fail to see how, in defending a friend against another man's accusations, I'm "making an ass" of myself.

Seems like you're so over-eager to protect your culture and your ways that you shoot first and ask questions later. You should consider gathering all of the facts before calling names and making judgements. Then again, it's your message board, and as the administrator, you're free to do whatever you want.
Title: Re: John Roos, claiming enrollment with lakota nation
Post by: Barnaby_McEwan on January 28, 2008, 11:06:37 pm
John says he's enrolled and he's shown me the paperwork. Chaska says he isn't. For you to ask for "more research," you seem awfully quick to judge and take sides.

You've seen enough tribal paperwork to spot a forgery? Chaska said weeks ago that the BIA office in Aberdeen has no record of Roos, who claimed to him that his paperwork was stolen. [sarcasm]Good to know he got it back[/sarcasm]. If you think Chaska is being dishonest, get in touch with the BIA or the tribal government. I find it interesting that neither of you appear to have thought of that: it seems like that would be a good way to make all of this go away.

Quote
If I wanted to hide who I was, I wouldn't have registered under my own e-mail. As soon as you pointed it out, I admitted it.

Don't give me that, you had no choice. What a position to be in, having to admit your real name as if it was a crime. You were here to fish for information: you didn't defend Roos until after you were outed.

Quote
Seems like you're so over-eager to protect your culture and your ways that you shoot first and ask questions later. You should consider gathering all of the facts before calling names and making judgements.

First, I'm not Indian. Lakota people are eager to protect their ways, and I'm eager to help, since frauds harm non-Indians in my community.

Second, this thread's been open almost three weeks. Lots of traditional people visit this forum, word gets around, and if anyone traditional who knows Roos thought him worth defending they probably would have done so by now. Instead we got you sniffing around.
Title: Re: John Roos, claiming enrollment with lakota nation
Post by: Moma_porcupine on January 28, 2008, 11:38:22 pm
I guess I am still not sure what the situation is. Was Mr Roos adopted legally when he was a child and still needed a guardian, in a way that required paper work or is this some kind of traditional adoption? Earth is Lakota and she started a thread explaining what it means to be adopted according to Lakota traditions.

http://www.newagefraud.org/smf/index.php?topic=1294.0 (http://www.newagefraud.org/smf/index.php?topic=1294.0)

 Earth7   
Adoption Ceremonies
« on: August 17, 2007, 08:33:48 am »    
Quote
I don't know if this is the area to be put this post but here goes.

The adoption ceremonies of my people the Lakota/Dakota/Nakota are
called Hunka ceremonies.
I would like to explain a little about them.
What they are and what they are NOT.

The adoption ceremonies are a ceremonies to adopt an individual into a family.
When you lose a family member you have the right to adopt a member.
When you are close to a person for a long time you have the right to adopt
them as a member of your family.
This relationship is sarced.

The right as a Hunka relatived are to care for your new family as they care for you.


Now for what they are NOT.
There has never been a person who has been adopted into the Lakota or Dakota or Nakota
Nation. This has not happen in the past nor today.

The Lakota/Dakota/Nakota Nations are in North Dakota, South Dakota, Montana, Nebraska,
Minnesota, three Canadain States. in order for a person to be adopted into the nation
it would have to be OKed by all of the nations and bands. I can tell it has never happened.

What right the adoptees Do Not have:
They have No Rights to ceremonies,
They have NO Rights to our stories
They have NO Rights to medicine,
They have No Rights to inherit medicine men names,
They have No Right to names,
They have NO Right to speak for our nations
They have No Right to speak for our governments,
They Have No Rights to speak for the adopted families,

If a person claims to be adopted by the Lakota or Dakota or Nakota
If a person claim to be taught medicine by a Lakota or Dakota or Nakota

Beware

I wasn't aware there was any paperwork involved in a traditional adoption, if this is what Mr Roos is claiming and don't think anyone can get enrolled on account of this. In many places even children adopted when they are young can't get enrolled, and for that matter, there is many children born to an enrolled parent that can't get enrolled because they don't have the required blood quota. So this whole story sounds very questionable
 
Earth 7 is Lakota and maybe she would know if this sounds like something that might happen.

Title: Re: John Roos, claiming enrollment with lakota nation
Post by: Barnaby_McEwan on January 28, 2008, 11:48:03 pm
I gather Muriel Ashmore and her husband Walter Littlemoon are very well-known and well-respected for their work. They founded the Tiyospaye Crisis Center in Denver.
Title: Re: John Roos, claiming enrollment with lakota nation
Post by: earthw7 on January 29, 2008, 03:22:54 am
I still don't understand how you can be adopted and enrolled. Even if you are adopted does not mean you get enrolled unless your bio-parents are enrolled.
What kind of paper work are you talking about?? What is his enrollment number?
I am asking for proof.
Title: Re: John Roos, claiming enrollment with lakota nation
Post by: frederica on January 29, 2008, 04:12:37 am
http://disc.yourwebapps.com/discussion.cgi?disc=199489;article=25087      Found this on web search. Looks like some in Tennessee had some questions about the same. Goes back to the latter part of October/Nov 07.
Title: Re: John Roos, claiming enrollment with lakota nation
Post by: gdmedicine on February 23, 2008, 07:54:06 pm
Yarnells business agreement???

Here is the business agreement signed by the Yarnells to Mr. Padgett....
Once he secured a open line of credit of 1.5 Million for the Yarnells, they refused to HONOR the agreement.....
then retained a lawyer to get out of their agreement.....
Mr. Padgett had no option but to inform investors that the Yarnells word was no good to him...
No where in this Agreement does it mention John Roos, he was to be a hired worker IF the business plan had completly went through....
I have no grudge against Roos over this business agreement, but his so called friends the Yarnells, their word is NO GOOD....



 
Title: Re: John Roos, claiming enrollment with lakota nation
Post by: gdmedicine on February 23, 2008, 08:39:14 pm
well, looks like Mr. Roos current company is trying to defend and fight for him but the bottom line is ANYONE WHO IS REALLY INDIAN WOULD KNOW THAT BEING "ADOPTED" DONT MAKE YOU A TRIBAL MEMBER!!!...DUH!!!.....as far as the enrollment being proven...IF this was true the tribe in question would ACKNOWLEDGE THAT and it would be on  record at the BIA!!...duh...looks like just another non-indian who went to ceremony and now has become an authority on the red road and tradtional teachings and is using the names of those medicine people (who felt sorry for him and tried to help  him) to promote himslef as a Lakota and as someone who has authority to conduct ceremonies...NOT!!....
so yeah...Mr. Roos and company...get mad...get good and mad because this fraud is all coming to an end
Title: Re: John Roos, claiming enrollment with lakota nation
Post by: Barnaby_McEwan on February 23, 2008, 10:35:01 pm
I don't see details of a business agreement in your posts, gdmedicine. Can we have some more details, please?
Title: Re: John Roos, claiming enrollment with lakota nation
Post by: NanticokePiney on February 24, 2008, 12:52:58 am
I still don't understand how you can be adopted and enrolled. Even if you are adopted does not mean you get enrolled unless your bio-parents are enrolled.
What kind of paper work are you talking about?? What is his enrollment number?
I am asking for proof.

 I am under the same impression. My stepfather was Harry Young ,a enrolled Oglala. I could never be enrolled. Only "Hunka shila" to him. It's nonsense. You must be blood to be enrolled and the Lakota Nation does not adopt. He won't have proof.
Title: Re: John Roos, claiming enrollment with lakota nation
Post by: Chaska on February 24, 2008, 06:25:27 am
Here are the Legal docuements pertaining to the so called grudge that involves the Yarnells (Wanna-be John Roo's friends)....note that these are signed docuements.....
note that once Chris Padgett had arranged for funding of 1.5 Million for the Yarnells, they didn't need his services anymore and avoided paying him his fees....
Note the lawyer letter to Chris Padgett......
I disassociated myself and my people (NDN) from the Yarnells, because their Word was no good...I informed John Roo's the Yarnells word was no good....
and now for those that are concerned let it be known that John Roo's word is no good....
so there is no grudge...just exposure for all to see that these individuals (yarnells and Roos) are liars and confabulators......its in black and white.....
Title: Re: John Roos, claiming enrollment with lakota nation
Post by: Chaska on February 24, 2008, 06:42:28 am
For those Concerned about these docuements posted, they may reach Chris Padgett at #813-628-4394.......
currently, Mr. Chris Padgett, has arranged funding for several foundations, involving BILLIONS (not Millions) and sits on the Board of Directors for Plasma Arc Technologies (plasmaarctechnologies.com)
Title: Re: John Roos, claiming enrollment with lakota nation
Post by: matt e on February 24, 2008, 07:14:58 am
when someone makes a claim that xxxx and/or xxxx person trained and/or authorized them to conduct something, or that they are a member of xxxx tribe/nation. they are counting on people being too lazy to pick up a phone and make a call, or write an email, or write a letter  to those people to verify it.
 all it takes to prove if someone is lying or telling the truth is one of these simple things. the people will respond either yes or no. I am sure that they would rather get a bunch of phone calls, or letters asking for verification, then to have a fraud using their name.
Title: Re: John Roos, claiming enrollment with lakota nation
Post by: gdmedicine on February 26, 2008, 05:05:04 am
hey barnaby...theres the documents posted from the person who got all the proof on roos and the yarnells....so ya see..its all there in black and white....
Title: Re: John Roos, claiming enrollment with lakota nation
Post by: Chaska on March 05, 2008, 12:02:34 pm
The Yarnells (Lance and Krista) were members of the recent post "Wolf's Heart Lodge, sons and daughters of the Earth"........the Fake NDN group out of St. Pete Florida
Title: Re: John Roos, claiming enrollment with lakota nation
Post by: NagiWKI on March 16, 2008, 05:53:26 pm
Mr. Denny, your financial arrangements with the Yarnells have nothing to do with this other than they're your personal burden and issue.

Since you and I met last fall, you've done nothing to provide alternative facilitation of the recovery circle here, you've done nothing to present yourself at any of the meetings or other events taking place there, in fact you've done nothing at all but raise cane via the Internet. On the other hand, the recovery circle has met every week except one, and Mr. Roos has KEPT his word to be there every time. 

And yes, let's all jump up and plague the Methodist Church with complaints, shall we? That will ensure that the opportunities for a free meeting place and other support they've given for all activities at that particular location end immediately, and that any headway made in creating similar opportunities at other Methodist churches in East Tennessee come to a screeching halt.

Educated Indian, you wanted me to address the issues I have with various posts on this board myself, well here you go.

1) Chaska Denny has been in Tennessee a whopping 1.5 or so years. He has not attended any of the meetings of the circle or other regularly scheduled gatherings held at that church. He did not attend the winter social held there in December. He states he's holding a sweat. He sells a book about how to do certain things like build sweat lodges, etc. To my knowledge he's contributed nothing to the local Indian community. Maybe you should be asking Mr. Denny if he's carding the folks attending his sweat or buying his book, ya think?

2) Mr. Denny had the opportunity to secure replacements for Mr. Roos at the recovery circle, but was informed the circle would not be shut down until he did so which is a good thing since he's not uttered a peep to me since.  I will not remove the opportunity for people seeking help and support for their addictions. He's been given the opportunity to provide replacements and he has done NOTHING to do so. I'm not going to allow those people attending that circle to suffer because of his vendetta and whether ya'll want to believe it or not this IS his vendetta.

3) All you folks are sitting miles away googling this that and the other thing and assuming everything you read is the way it is. Not ONE of you have ever picked up a phone and called me, my organization, or anyone else involved in most of the relevant posts to confirm or request any information.  On the other hand, I've spent literally hours on the phone with White Bison and reviewed most of their available literature and programs, explained everything about the talking circle here to them and not once have they said, "You need to knock that off." I've explained to them exactly who I was and never once did they say, "Well damn. You're not Indian enough to do this." In fact, what they did was send me information on upcoming training sessions they encouraged me to attend!

Let me explain to you what John Roos is. John Roos is someone who gives a damn whether people get help and support for dealing with their addictions. John Roos is facilitating a weekly talking circle at a local church. John Roos has kept his word to me and to the program we worked together to start.

If ANY of you want to know what's going on with this program or anything else at that church or that I'm involved in, here's a suggestion. Pick up the phone and call ME. My contact information is NOT hard to find.  You're blasting my name all over your board and not one of you has ever contacted me in ANY way EXCEPT Denny and he ONLY contacted me after I said the same thing to him.

Valerie Ohle
Title: Re: John Roos, claiming enrollment with lakota nation
Post by: frederica on March 16, 2008, 07:48:27 pm
Valerie,  Sorry, but I am missing something. Your name was brought up as you were a Lay Minister of the Native American Ministeries, Methodist Church. Contact number was included. Later it was brought up as on the Tenn List post from Oct/Nov you had met with C. Denning and it was worked out. And it was noted it was worked out before the post here. That's a good thing. I see nothing bad about that. The disagreement seem to lie with two others, maybe three, but it hard to decide who is a troll and who is not with some of the names used. I can't see that you are involved in any of the rest. You were coordinator of a program and worked that out by meeting with Denning. I doubt seriously anyone here would storm the Methodist Church with complaints. If they wanted information they would have called the Native American Ministeries of which you are a part.
Title: Re: John Roos, claiming enrollment with lakota nation
Post by: educatedindian on March 17, 2008, 01:10:31 am
Thought the name Ohle sounded familiar. Ohle also got taken in by Lawrence Sampson, the fake pretending to be an AIM member. She exploded in two very looooong emails she sent me awhile back, but avoided answering my question asking about how she got fooled by him into letting him be on their board for two years. Instead she went into the same persecution complex bit, even though her group was only very briefly mentioned in the Sampson thread.

Basically her newest rant avoids the main issue in the same way: Is Roo what he claims to be or not?

Ohle sidesteps that and asks why we don't call her, and once against jumps to the conclusion she's been personally attacked when nothing bad had been said about her. And I have no idea why she addressed me when I've said almost nothing in this thread.
Title: Re: John Roos, claiming enrollment with lakota nation
Post by: frederica on March 17, 2008, 01:18:05 am
She was never under attack by any of us. Nor was the program. It was some individual claims that were questioned.
Title: Re: John Roos, claiming enrollment with lakota nation
Post by: Chaska on March 17, 2008, 12:18:06 pm
I provided my particular information, proving who I am, my tribal identification, my CDIB....Certified Degree of Indian Blood....these are what YOU requested from me.......so when I asked YOU.....Wheres yours....you (Valerie) couldnt produce anything as I did, so your not a member of any Federally Recognized Tribe.....I am not a drug or alcoholic, I do not need to attend any meetings.  These financial documents are proof that John Roos so called grudge is non existent....just as this so called enrollment with the Lakota....its only a lie that he perpetuates.....what I see and know now is, is there is scads of fakes claiming to be affiliated to some kind of Tribe, yet have nothing to show to prove it, yet are in positions representing NDN people or programs or isssues......
                                                      Thats Crazy.....
John Roos needs to fess up and be himself.....and not claim NDN
other than that I dont care about John Roos, you or any of those other fakes out there who attend or believe in anything YOU or John Roos does.......
My manuscript is for those who are NDN and have been raised in non Indian society (Like YOU and Roos), who do not know of basic Ways, My Manuscript is for the Young generation of NDN, to understand the basic ways.....
Just as YOU have your ways, but these ways comes from deep within NDN Reservation NDN......
John Wanna-be Roos IS NOT a Lakota and IS NOT enrolled in the Lakota Nation.....thats TRUTH
Prove it John, Prove it Valerie, Prove it Steve Wildsmith....
I proved MINE now show us yours.......
Title: Re: John Roos, claiming enrollment with lakota nation
Post by: quicksilverwade on May 27, 2008, 12:51:44 am
He's not "claiming." He's enrolled through his adopted mother, Muriel Ashmore, buried on Dave Swallow's property.

Enrolled through his adopted mother?  Sounds like Duane Big Eagle of Crow Creek who lost the council race this year.
Title: Re: John Roos, claiming enrollment with lakota nation
Post by: porkypine on June 03, 2008, 04:01:09 am
Hi Wade... Really?  Who's the new council?  Will they do something to turn it around for the people?
Title: Re: John Roos, claiming enrollment with lakota nation
Post by: Wakalopi14 on May 07, 2013, 12:27:45 am
I'm not sure anyone will even read this, as it's been several years since the last post, but as I've known John since 12/92, I thought I'd add a few things, and if anyone would like me to elaborate, I will. I need to say that I am wasichu, but I've considered myself to be Red Road for over 20 years, and I hope my skin color will not be of importance in what I have to say. Muriel was Oneida/Dakota, so John claiming to be Lakota due to his being adopted by her is nonsense. She is NOT buried at David Swallows, but at Walter Little Moon's property at Wounded Knee. I know because I helped to put her in the ground and shoveled dirt to cover her up. The last Inipi I was in with John, I told those praying about my thoughts on John parading around camp with his shirt off to show off his piercing scars from Sun Dance, and how arrogant and wrong I felt that was. John was in attendance at that Lodge, and we barely spoke for years after, and it was only when Muriel was really sick and apparently ready to commence her Spirit Walk that he asked me to help get her out of Swedish Medical Center to attend a Lodge and House Ceremony. John was the person who introduced me to Robert Cross, Muriel, and Inipi, so I felt a certain amount of loyalty to him to keep my thoughts about him private, but most of the people who prayed with Muriel expressed disappointment around him, and it fell to me to deal with him. Muriel commended me for saying what I did in Inipi, and though she had adopted him, she confided in me certain things that I told her I would not repeat, and even though she's been gone 14 years, I will keep that promise. Suffice it to say she was disappointed in him as well. While I haven't seen John since Muriel passed, and I do believe people can change and grow, and I'd like to give him the benefit of the doubt, I can easily see that all of the allegations made against him are believable. There are many more examples I can give of John passing along incorrect understandings of Lakota Ceremonies, and while at this point it's all probably moot, if anyone needs to know more, I will elaborate.
Mitakuye Oyasin
Changleska Wakan Apichiyapi
Title: Re: John Roos, claiming enrollment with lakota nation
Post by: debbieredbear on May 07, 2013, 12:57:58 am
Thanks for your input. Yes, we do read these when they are old. ;)
Title: Re: John Roos, claiming enrollment with lakota nation
Post by: Cetan on May 07, 2013, 02:52:14 am
I dont remember seeing this thread before but I do know someone who was adopted by a family in Pine Ridge and was enrolled, her enrollment card says 0/4 blood but she does have an enrollment number. this was many years ago and I believe the OST no longer allows enrollment of adopted people, but they used to