Author Topic: John Allen Hill / John Two Hawks / John Twohawks  (Read 83991 times)

Offline Rattlebone

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Re: John Allen Hill / John Two Hawks / John Twohawks
« Reply #45 on: February 11, 2010, 12:57:34 am »


And also, He really ROCKED OUT in Finland and seems to have a lot of fans all over the world!  How about doing some sort of a benefit concert at home in South Dakota. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kL5VjT002DM




 That was the longest eight minutes and forty seconds in my life. I can't see how any self respecting Lakota person could act so stereotyped, twinkie, and cheesy for this guy to be the real thing.

Offline BlackWolf

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Re: John Allen Hill / John Two Hawks / John Twohawks
« Reply #46 on: February 11, 2010, 05:43:03 am »
Rattlebone said

Quote
That was the longest eight minutes and forty seconds in my life. I can't see how any self respecting Lakota person could act so stereotyped, twinkie, and cheesy for this guy to be the real thing.

I agree with you Rattlbone. And did you see the last 3 minutes of the video where he speaks Lakota to the audience!  It’s like the dude thinks he’s Crazy Horse or something speaking to his warriors before some great battle.  All I know is this.  If Two Hawks is some great Lakota hero as all his fans in Europe think he is, then how come no one knows much about him in his alleged community in Pine Ridge?  Surely as a great Lakota speaker and Musician, he would have been involved in gatherings and speaking engagements out there. That’s all well and good that he has fans all over the world that admire him and he’s all famous now with his rock videos.  But you have to ask yourself why actual Lakota people don’t know who he is?

I’ve talked to a Lakota person from Pine Ridge about him and they never heard of him or his "Two Hawks" family.  And this person, I might add is someone that is actually involved in the community there.  Someone else pointed out that there’s no known "Two Hawks" family from Pine Ridge.  I did hear from one Lakota person that actually did hear of him.  But they said that they heard of him because they heard of people complaining about him. This is the reason I have doubts about his bold claims.  From what I heard, he’s been out there to Lakota communities and he probably learned a few things from Traditional people, but that’s about it.  Also, as someone else pointed, out, they never heard of that supposed Lakota Four Winds Ceremony that he performed for the Media in Arkansas.

Offline BlackWolf

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Re: John Allen Hill / John Two Hawks / John Twohawks
« Reply #47 on: February 11, 2010, 07:21:28 am »
I don't really have anything againts Nightwish though or their music.  They all seem like very talented musicians.  I can't really blame them either, because they're just looking at things from a musical perspective.

Offline BlackWolf

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Re: John Allen Hill / John Two Hawks / John Twohawks
« Reply #48 on: February 13, 2010, 02:24:09 am »
More on John Two Hawks.

http://www.northlr.org/calendar-of-events/Birthday-events/FORMS/MASTER%20PLAN%20rvsd.pdf

Quote
John Two-Hawks, a world renowned
Native American flutist, singer, performer, and recording artist, is an Oglala Lakota healer who carries on the ancient
spiritual traditions of his ancestors through ceremony, teaching, and music.

Quote
Regarded by many as an Elk Medicine Man, Two-Hawks is a gentle spiritual soul
whose vision is for the mending of the sacred hoop of humanity and the healing of the delicate circular balance of the
natural world of our Mother Earth.

Offline bls926

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Re: John Allen Hill / John Two Hawks / John Twohawks
« Reply #49 on: February 13, 2010, 02:56:56 am »
We still don't know if John Two-Hawks is Lakota or not, so I won't call him a fraud. However, the things he says and does definitely qualify as exploitative.

Quote
. . . Oglala Lakota healer who carries on the ancient spiritual traditions of his ancestors through ceremony, teaching, and music

Quote
Regarded by many as an Elk Medicine Man, Two-Hawks is a gentle spiritual soul whose vision is for the mending of the sacred hoop of humanity and the healing of the delicate circular balance of the natural world of our Mother Earth.


A healer, an Elk Medicine Man . . . Who would talk this way about himself? It's probably written by his PR people or his agent (Peggy Hill, who doubles as his wife). Who would let this be published? Who would think this was good PR? Conjures up visions of rainbows and crystals.

From things I've been reading about Two-Hawks, it seems he caters to middle-class whites. Desperate housewives wanting to get in touch with their spirituality. Is what he's teaching in these retreats accurate? True to Lakota tradition? Even if it is, why is he sharing with the new age crowd?

Offline Unegv Waya

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Re: John Allen Hill / John Two Hawks / John Twohawks
« Reply #50 on: February 13, 2010, 03:25:08 pm »
"I don't really have anything againts Nightwish though or their music.  They all seem like very talented musicians.  I can't really blame them either, because they're just looking at things from a musical perspective."

True, Black Wolf, that the band likely does not ask to see someone's enrollment card.  They only look at the credibility of the music and take for granted that the person is genuine.  At least that's how I've seen it work.  Sometimes those assumptions cause trouble when no offense was intended.
nvwatohiyadv

Offline bls926

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Re: John Allen Hill / John Two Hawks / John Twohawks
« Reply #51 on: February 13, 2010, 05:40:37 pm »
"I don't really have anything againts Nightwish though or their music.  They all seem like very talented musicians.  I can't really blame them either, because they're just looking at things from a musical perspective."

True, Black Wolf, that the band likely does not ask to see someone's enrollment card.  They only look at the credibility of the music and take for granted that the person is genuine.  At least that's how I've seen it work.  Sometimes those assumptions cause trouble when no offense was intended.


Unfortunately, the same can be said for Dick Wolf and all those involved with HBO's Bury My Heart at Wounded Knee. Does everyone just listen to the music? Not only should they have asked for proof of a connection to the Lakota people, they should have looked at some of the other things Two-Hawks is involved in.

Offline Defend the Sacred

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Re: John Allen Hill / John Two Hawks / John Twohawks
« Reply #52 on: February 17, 2010, 09:54:11 pm »
It seems that Two-Hawks has been doing what he does for quite a few years and has been accepted by many. He performed some of the music in HBO's Bury My Heart at Wounded Knee. There's pictures of Two-Hawks with Adam Beach on his website, as well as pictures with Lakota and Mvskoke. This doesn't necessarily prove he's Native, but it's something to think about.

As far as I am aware, HBO's Bury My Heart at Wounded Knee was not an NDN-controlled project. A non-NDN friend of mine was a member of the production team, and won an award for his work on the film. He probably worked with Two Hawks, but would have no idea if he was NDN or not - only whether he could play what they wanted. Mainstream, for-profit productions run by nons usually have no clue as to who is legitimate, and often don't care as long as they fit the bill for the services they're looking for. It's art, but it's also a business.

Just because some NDNs get hired for a project doesn't mean there is any priority or consciousness about hiring NDNs for other jobs on the production. And most performers I know - NDN and non - will smile and pose for a picture with anyone who asks: it's part of the job.

Quote
Yes, he conducts seminars and has written some questionable books, but that doesn't make him a fraud either. I know of enrolled Lakota who aren't above selling a ceremony or two from time to time. It isn't right, but it doesn't make them frauds. I think we should know, without a doubt, that someone is lying about who and what they are before we call them a fraud.

I've been thinking about the semantics here. On NAFPS we have often used the terms "fraud" and "exploiter" interchangeably. Many people are both. I do get the distinction you are making here, but not everyone does. Someone may be full-blooded, enrolled, traditionally trained... and be lying to outsiders that it's OK for them to sell ceremony, or change ceremony, or use their past reputation as a ceremonial person to exploit people.

Someone may have been given some ceremonies in a legitimate manner, but not others they claim to teach. They may be selling things they made up, and using their "real NDN" reputation as a way to defraud and exploit people.

So when someone calls someone else a fraud or an exploiter, we need to look at the context. Most exploitation involves some degree of fraud.
« Last Edit: July 18, 2014, 11:56:09 pm by Kathryn »

Offline hornet

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Re: John Allen Hill / John Two Hawks / John Twohawks
« Reply #53 on: March 25, 2013, 07:30:27 am »
There has been some new development in this case.
After some first doubts, some members of the fan forum of the Finnish metal band have done some research. Details can be read here:
http://www.nightwishforum.com/index.php?/topic/1026-john-two-hawks/

Summary:

1) He is lying concerning his Lakota abilities. He does NOT speak Lakota. There are several sources in the thread for this.
I, and every Lakota language learner with only basic knowledge, can second that. All he does is translating English texts word-by-word into Lakota using a dictionary. That does not turn out too well since the word order in Lakota is the other way around compared to English. His pronunciation is wrong and his grammar knowledge nonexistent.

2) He is not enrolled with the Oglala Lakota tribe or any other tribe. He himself admits that, and the Oglala Sioux Tribe Executive Committee Pine Ridge confirms it and says that there has never been an Oglala family by the name of Two Haws (see post by member mojo on page 3, click on "spoiler").

So, citing forum member shoshone:
Quote
I can believe that Mr. Two Hawks might have some Lakota blood in him--but he admits he's not enrolled. So legally, he is NOT Oglala, and marketing his music as such actually breaks the law:

http://www.iacb.doi.gov/act.html

Hornet
« Last Edit: March 25, 2013, 08:54:49 am by hornet »

Offline Superdog

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Re: John Allen Hill / John Two Hawks / John Twohawks
« Reply #54 on: March 25, 2013, 08:38:25 pm »
The topic migrated over to another forum.  The original poster in this thread enlisted the help of David Little Elk and posted the e-mails.  Basically, he says the same thing.  The poem at the end of Nightwish's song "Creek Mary's Blood" is basically gibberish with a few Lakota words.  The name JTH gave Tuomas is also improperly translated.  David also relates that JTH came to him to learn Lakota about 6 years ago, but David refused him because of his questionable heritage and because he didn't want to pay for his language lessons.  He doesn't seem to be a fan....


http://www.tuomas-holopainen.com/en/forum/15-other-music/87094-john-two-hawks?q=/index.php/en/forum/15-other-music/87094-john-two-hawks

Followed up by a short blurb on another site explaining the highlights of the whole situation:

http://www.dark-domain.co.uk/2013/01/john-two-hawks-denies-allegations-that.html
"Thursday, 17 January 2013
Nightwish collaborator denies allegations that his Oglala heritage is false

John Two-Hawks issues a statement denying claims that his Oglala Lakota heritage is false.

John Two-Hawks, an American flutist has issued a statement for the first time in response to allegations that claim he is a fraud.

Two-Hawks has built his career on the premise of his Oglala heritage. This recently came into question when members of the tribe were introduced to Nightwish, a symphonic metal band he had worked with in the past.

Upon listening to a song he contributed to, a young member of the tribe and fluent Lakota speaker found that the lyrics Two-Hawks supposedly wrote in the language were “nothing more than absolute gibberish.” This was later confirmed by David Little Elk, a certified Lakota language expert.

In addition to this Little Elk stated that he was approached by Two-Hawks six years ago for lessons in Lakota, but declined to teach him because of his supposed false Native American identity and his refusal to pay.

In his statement Two-Hawks defends himself saying “My full legal name is John Two-Hawks. It is a proud family name that goes back many generations. It is not unheard of in Lakota country.” The Oglala enrolment office which keeps records of all members as far back as 1800 was unable to trace the name Two-Hawks.

The flutist claims to be well known and culturally recognised in Lakota Country. A Yankton Sioux responded to this saying "Sure, he's well known in Lakota country... as a fraud!"

The inaccuracy of his lyrics sparked online discussion which Two-Hawks labelled slander, demanding all posts to be removed.

By Jacob Ovington "
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


However, no official word from Nightwish on this topic...yet.

On a side note, just watched a youtube performance of Creek Mary's Blood with JTH performing....
My review:  Cheezy (with a capital Cheese).  The "Hey yahoo hey yahoo hey yahoo hey" singing takes the Cheese Cake...  ;)

Superdog
« Last Edit: March 25, 2013, 09:14:57 pm by Superdog »

Offline hornet

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Re: John Allen Hill / John Two Hawks / John Twohawks
« Reply #55 on: March 25, 2013, 11:34:32 pm »
I am waiting for some Nightwish reply, too. Might take a while though, that is quite something to chew on.

The name, yes, first of all, it should be the other way around, so it would be "Wolf Shadow" instead of "Shadow Wolf". "Šungmánitu thánka / sungmanitutanka" has to be at the end. This is almost the only example where the Lakota word order is the same as in English, connecting two nouns, and again he messes up.

Hornet

Offline Superdog

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Re: John Allen Hill / John Two Hawks / John Twohawks
« Reply #56 on: March 26, 2013, 12:16:43 am »
An article reviewing a concert he performed at Pittsburgh State University for Native American Heritage Month.  More than once the author decides to call him a member of the Oglala Nation, but some of John's own words are pretty revealing of some (more) major bs'ing he is doing:

http://www.morningsun.net/news/x35741617/Native-American-flutist-John-Two-Hawks-comes-to-PSU

"In 1890, the United States government banned the use of flutes and other religious items by Native Americans. But facing fines and prison time, some brave natives hid their articles of faith for nearly 100 years, and because of them, men like John Two Hawks are able to continue traditions that are thousands of years old............"

" Standing more than six feet tall and with long, thinning dark hair, Two Hawks casts a striking figure on stage. He started playing the flute more than 20 years ago at festivals, or what he calls his ‘Throw me a bone days.” The U.S. government had passed the Native American Religious Freedom Act on 1978, and he was one of just six people who knew how to play the Native American flute after families began to bring their ancestral instruments out of hiding.

“For many years brave people hid their flutes, and it’s because of them I’m able to stand here today,” Two Hawks said."



WOW....some whoppers there....

While it's true assimilation efforts after 1890 did discourage or ban Native religious practices, it's not true that flutes were in hiding until 1978.  In fact, the library of Congress has several recordings of flute players (Kiowa, Lakota, Osage) date back to around 1940.  There were definitely more than six people and John definitely wasn't one of them.  Another fact, Native music was somewhat of a rage from 1890-1920 in mainstream America as American composers struggled to make the "American sound" and borrowed (or sometimes coopted and rearranged) melodies and musical themes from Native peoples (called the "Indianist movement").  There was no outright ban on flute playing. 

I've also seen him misstate his relevance in regards to Native flute.  In his words, he is one of the ones most responsible for making Native flute famous....apparently Doc Tate Nevaquaya, Kevin Locke, R. Carlos Nakai, Tom Ware and others weren't doing enough...

Another article from the same performance:
http://psucollegio.com/2012/12/if-dreams-had-music/
".....Two-Hawks says his performance is always a combination of constants and the vibe of the stage and the audience. He wears an elaborate arrangement of clothes and jewelry on stage. The centerpiece is a black jacket stitched with the emblem of a leader in the Delaware Nation, a close friend of Two-Hawks, Bill Two-Horses. His jewelry is red and blue, and highlighted by a ring reflecting Two-Hawks’ motto on the good and bad aspects of life. The negative blue is always oriented toward him.
“I’ll take the ‘blue’ day and give the ‘red’ day,” he said. “That is our (Lakota Sioux) custom, our culture, to give of yourself and to make sacrifices......”


His website is now selling "Master classes".... ::)

Superdog

(just a quick p.s.  I noticed the link to the Creek Mary's Blood vid posted earlier wasn't working.  Here's another one that does work...Earthw....prepare yourself first ;)http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gjl57sGAtjU   Highlights are the first 50 seconds, 4:07..the "hey yahoo"s, 6:55 the poem he translated so badly.....cheesy dancing throughout...)
« Last Edit: March 26, 2013, 12:41:07 am by Superdog »

Offline earthw7

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Re: John Allen Hill / John Two Hawks / John Twohawks
« Reply #57 on: March 26, 2013, 01:04:19 am »
Ok now this is too funny, Flute were never an item use in spirituality of the Lakota
a flute was used for wanting a young woman for courtship and marriage.
The date for outlawing our ways was 1885 of course that did not include flute,
plus there was more than six people just on my reservation who played the flute in the 1960s.
In Spirit

Offline loudcrow

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Re: John Allen Hill / John Two Hawks / John Twohawks
« Reply #58 on: March 26, 2013, 02:59:14 am »
John Allen Two-Hawks Hill, age 45
Currently lives in Eureka Springs, Arkansas
Also lived in Owosso, MI, Ovid, MI, Corunna, MI
and Hannibal, MO

Epiphany

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Re: John Allen Hill / John Two Hawks / John Twohawks
« Reply #59 on: March 26, 2013, 03:17:41 am »
John Allen Two-Hawks Hill, age 45
Currently lives in Eureka Springs, Arkansas
Also lived in Owosso, MI, Ovid, MI, Corunna, MI
and Hannibal, MO

Born Sept 25, 1967. Wife is Peggy. If anyone comes across the name of at least one of his parents, please let us know. I've been looking for a family obit that might help, other public records, so far no luck.