NAFPS Forum
Odds and Ends => Etcetera => Topic started by: Kevin on July 01, 2008, 12:55:35 pm
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I hope the originator of the term "thinbloods" has obtained a copyright. Searching out and latching onto old, vague and 'thinned' ancestors as a means of self identity is I suppose mostly in reaction to the rampant materialism and consumerism of Western societies. I wonder though if such identity 'questing' isn't clouding some of the ways and means of combating plastic shamans and nuage nonsense?
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good question, i worry about people who just found out they might have indian blood then because all holy
listening to the birds and anmals or what ever.
If you don't who your relative are and don't know yor nation then you are not indian
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Somebody who is 1/4, or 1/8 may know who their nation is, and may know who their relations are and still be called this.
Thin blood in it's root meaning does not necessarily mean to be lacking ties or knowledge to who you are from. It too me sounds like referring to a person having a BQ on the lower end of the scale.
The concept of thinblood would be just as NON NDN as the concept of BQ since thin blood is indicative of BQ.
How does one claim to be protecting traditional ways, while at the same time using colonial concepts that are in their root origin the very direct result of colonialism and assault on our peoples?
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Somebody who is 1/4, or 1/8 may know who their nation is, and may know who their relations are and still be called this.
Thin blood in it's root meaning does not necessarily mean to be lacking ties or knowledge to who you are from. It too me sounds like referring to a person having a BQ on the lower end of the scale.
The concept of thinblood would be just as NON NDN as the concept of BQ since thin blood is indicative of BQ.
How does one claim to be protecting traditional ways, while at the same time using colonial concepts that are in their root origin the very direct result of colonialism and assault on our peoples?
No kidding, to me it seems insistence on BQ almost guarantees termination (eventually), and continues the genocidal practices of the colonial powers that think they are.
Y'all are still missing the point.
BQ does play a role in whether you're Indian or not. Someone who is less than 1/8 and can pass for white has no idea what it is to live as Indian. They have never experienced the disrespect and discrimination that those who cannot pass have. On the other end of the scale, they've probably never had someone come up and ask to touch their hair; in other words, they haven't had to deal with Indian-worshippers either. Someone with low BQ won't have to worry as much about diabetes; probably doesn't have chizzi elbows or keloids; isn't lactose intolerant. These things definitely have an effect on your life. Our genetic makeup plays a big role in how we live in our environment. Yes, with a lower BQ you can still know your culture, but the way society views you, the way you deal with day-to-day living, may be different.
But it's not just BQ. If you're even 1/8, that means you're 7/8 something else. Your family has probably had no interaction with your people for three generations. If your great-grandmother left her Nation, married a white man and became assimilated, why should you think you are Indian today? If your parents and grandparents had nothing to do with their tribe, what gives you the right to claim an Indian identity? How can tradition and family ties skip two generations and still be authentic? You have Indian ancestry. You are a descendant. While three generations is not exactly distant, you are still a descendant. Can you reconnect with your Nation? That would all depend. If you still have family who remained, it would probably be easier. I think it would be ludicrous to walk into a Tribal office, provide proof that your great-grandmother was a member of the Nation, and expect them to welcome you with open arms. How can you even begin to think this would happen? And if your Nation does not consider you one of them, then you aren't. Y'all need to wake up and face the facts.
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that's culture, and ties in with identity. even if you were "FBI", and know nothing of yourself, it's the same thing. same things goes for mixed, what if they know where they come from, are accepted as such in their community, would you call them non-NDN too?
the facts aren't clear-cut. making judgements "just because" isn't productive, you fall in the colonialist game again. i'm quite aware decolonizing yourself is hard, but be aware of your actions, as i will be, and hopefully am, of mine. not trying to poop on what you said, since you, and the other folks here make good points, and bring up always interesting subjects.
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Somebody who is 1/4, or 1/8 may know who their nation is, and may know who their relations are and still be called this.
Thin blood in it's root meaning does not necessarily mean to be lacking ties or knowledge to who you are from. It too me sounds like referring to a person having a BQ on the lower end of the scale.
The concept of thinblood would be just as NON NDN as the concept of BQ since thin blood is indicative of BQ.
How does one claim to be protecting traditional ways, while at the same time using colonial concepts that are in their root origin the very direct result of colonialism and assault on our peoples?
No kidding, to me it seems insistence on BQ almost guarantees termination (eventually), and continues the genocidal practices of the colonial powers that think they are.
Y'all are still missing the point.
BQ does play a role in whether you're Indian or not. Someone who is less than 1/8 and can pass for white has no idea what it is to live as Indian. They have never experienced the disrespect and discrimination that those who cannot pass have. On the other end of the scale, they've probably never had someone come up and ask to touch their hair; in other words, they haven't had to deal with Indian-worshippers either. Someone with low BQ won't have to worry as much about diabetes; probably doesn't have chizzi elbows or keloids; isn't lactose intolerant. These things definitely have an effect on your life. Our genetic makeup plays a big role in how we live in our environment. Yes, with a lower BQ you can still know your culture, but the way society views you, the way you deal with day-to-day living, may be different.
But it's not just BQ. If you're even 1/8, that means you're 7/8 something else. Your family has probably had no interaction with your people for three generations. If your great-grandmother left her Nation, married a white man and became assimilated, why should you think you are Indian today? If your parents and grandparents had nothing to do with their tribe, what gives you the right to claim an Indian identity? How can tradition and family ties skip two generations and still be authentic? You have Indian ancestry. You are a descendant. While three generations is not exactly distant, you are still a descendant. Can you reconnect with your Nation? That would all depend. If you still have family who remained, it would probably be easier. I think it would be ludicrous to walk into a Tribal office, provide proof that your great-grandmother was a member of the Nation, and expect them to welcome you with open arms. How can you even begin to think this would happen? And if your Nation does not consider you one of them, then you aren't. Y'all need to wake up and face the facts.
So when somebody who is 1/4 dies their Native ancestors do not great them when they pass on to the other side?
You are actually using the argument that somebody may or not have it better or worse then another person to justify things that are not traditional ways.
As Native people we do things that honor and respect our ancestors, and yet you wish to call somebody who is 1/4 or 1/8 a descendant?
That is in not too much different then when nuage people mix ways, and only take those things from our ways that they like thus discarding those which they do not.
Sure I will agree that somebody is full blooded will have problems and things in their life that somebody 1/4 or 1/8 would not have. Yet to use such things as a tool make colonial concepts NDN ones is ludicrous when those colonial concepts are just as foul, and just as evil as nuage things ones.
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http://www.newagefraud.org/smf/index.php?topic=1835.msg12917#msg12917
(also replying to the thread, not just nighthawk)
exactly. members of nations shouldn't be chasing away their cousins, relatives, siblings, they should be telling the governments to shove off and tell them *we* decide who are members, not you. They Are A Foreign Government. stop acting like you're under their tutelage.
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that's culture, and ties in with identity. even if you were "FBI", and know nothing of yourself, it's the same thing. same things goes for mixed, what if they know where they come from, are accepted as such in their community, would you call them non-NDN too?
the facts aren't clear-cut. making judgements "just because" isn't productive, you fall in the colonialist game again. i'm quite aware decolonizing yourself is hard, but be aware of your actions, as i will be, and hopefully am, of mine. not trying to poop on what you said, since you, and the other folks here make good points, and bring up always interesting subjects.
i meant Full Blooded NDN there, not F**king Big NDN, nor Flat Broke NDN. heehee
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I would also like to comment about whoever said somebody 1/8 would be 7/8's something else.
In reality that is not true since human DNA is not broken down into fractions in such a way. As a matter of fact BQ has no scientific basis in the way in which it is used.
When people intermarry some traits become dominate, and some become recessive.
Now as I have said earlier will concede that somebody who is 1/8 will not have the problems or obstacles that somebody who is full blooded or close to it will have.
Still to condemn such a person based on something such as BQ is in fact not an NDN concept, and thus in essence not traditional.
This is not to say I support people claiming to be NDN because they have some gggggggg grandmother who they say was a Cherokee princess.
However seeing the rate that NDN's marry into NONs I see that the concept of BQ will do what the guns of the past could not do, and that is exterminate us.
Educated Indian challenged me on the word PODIA a while back saying how he wanted me to explain how I felt it was comparable to something such as those genocidal acts of the past and not so past.
I will say in regards to that word, the word thin blood, and the concept of BQ; tht they are just as those genocidal practices, but with a modern way of performing them.
This is not unlike how modern Indian policy was just way to use the pen to replace the canon and rifle. The concept of BQ has been ingrained in our minds to create the whole " I am more NDN then you conflict." This keeps us fighting and divided by a concept that in it's conception was used in the first place to take away lands.
Now days with Natives marrying whites at a rate of 70% over marrying other NDN's, how relocation programs took people away from their communities, and all other ills of colonization and how they have stripped entire nations of their ways; what you have is Federal Indian policy and NDN inn fighting over NON concepts such as BQ replacing the rifle.
If we are to consider ourselves Nations then we should act like them. Pass down our ways to our children and relations regardless of BQ thus making sure they live on in spite of the great obstacles we face due to colonization. If we do not find ways around such things like this we shall soon be what NON NDN American wanted in the first place and that is extinct as a people.
As a nation Nazi Germany instituted racial policies as a way to hunt down Jews for extermination. The United States has since then perfected them. Now we continue the process by viewing our own relations in such a way.
I don't know how that is an NDN thing even if somebody who is 1/8 does not have it as bad as somebody 4/4's?
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After a couple of generations of walking talking thinking acting believing white or mexican or chinese or black, it don't matter if granny had some Indian blood in her or not. I don't think cultural hitch hikers are much welcome on the ol' red road.
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After a couple of generations of walking talking thinking acting believing white or mexican or chinese or black, it don't matter if granny had some Indian blood in her or not. I don't think cultural hitch hikers are much welcome on the ol' red road.
Most Mexicans are nearly full blood NDN's themselves so how could you make such a statement?
Also do all person's with white skin think alike and do all NDN's think alike?
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Yeh I've got a pretty strict, tight list compared to just having met BQ requirements, that's partly based on my experience with the (now) Quebec Nation (which used to just be people living on a territory known as the Province of Quebec inclusive of recent immigrants). Not "just" ancestry, but also shared culture, history, and language; I believe those things are of equal importance to what determines what a people are.
Same here.
Since contact has occurred the times since then are not the same as what our ancestors lived through.
When I look around I see being Indian as something pretty fluid now days. I know full bloods that are christian and think if your traditional that you are going to hell. I know a man who's blood quantum is a whopping 1/32 bq and he is a well loved member of the community and participates in his culture in a good way, and is no nuage type person.
The spectrum on how things are in this modern world is large and that is why I said being NDN is often a fluid thing.
Some hold on to the notion that being NDN must be this or that, and that you should be of this BQ and look this way. Often times with this sort of mindset that full blood who hates native ways will still be given more love in the community then that person who is far less, but actually living the culture and doing so in a good way. It is in the end a very bad paradox created by NONS.
So with me in order that I don't make blanket statements about who is NDN or not I came up with a way in which I view people.
To me somebody must be
1.)Culturally Indian
2.)Socially Indian
Indian by blood (regardless of BQ since I don't go around asking how much somebody is)
3.)Politically Indian.
4.)Seen as NDN by the community
Now with the exception of somebody who is over half who will be NDN regardless, somebody must be a combo of all 4 things in my eyes to be seen as NDN and not just 1 or 2. Even in my eyes there are people that maybe deserve the title of PODIA or Thinblood, but those are people whom I don't consider NDN at all. I would use such words on them, and not somebody who is part of, or is trying to learn their culture in a good way.
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When I aid the Tribe with my labor, my money , or my art for them to sell. When I give good counsel to those younger. when I look after the well being of those older than myself. When I defend them from criticism. When I receive their acceptance as a friend. They ask not what my BQ is. They look and judge character. When I am introduced to others as a good friend of the Tribe I am reminded of what an old Elder said to me once. You could get a card but it would give you nothing that you don't already have. I have their friendship and acceptance as one of their own. I am honored and subdued by it. "LittleOldMan"
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When I aid the Tribe with my labor, my money , or my art for them to sell. When I give good counsel to those younger. when I look after the well being of those older than myself. When I defend them from criticism. When I receive their acceptance as a friend. They ask not what my BQ is. They look and judge character. When I am introduced to others as a good friend of the Tribe I am reminded of what an old Elder said to me once. You could get a card but it would give you nothing that you don't already have. I have their friendship and acceptance as one of their own. I am honored and subdued by it. "LittleOldMan"
As how it was and how it should be always.
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ta-ho, Rattlebone, you speak from the mind and heart, in a good way. wela'lin for those words. also i thank you LittleOldMan, and nighthawk, for your words also, they come from the same places.
i must say that these thoughts, ideas, and feelings, are what we need to continue on as who we are. we cannot forget where we come from, else we just become cogs in the machine also, and not the human beings/L'nu/Anishnaabe/etc. we are. the mainstream society is very ill, and people react to it in various ways.
some almost see it, so they go looking for something, they don't know what; they see us, with our rich cultures - those of us that still have it, and weren't destroyed by the genocidal policies of foreign governments - and think stealing from us is the answer. it isn't.
they're looking for something they have lost from their minds a long time ago. i think it is possible for them to find their way back, but their road is also going to be hard. most see that it is, or are just greedy, and take shortcuts.
you cannot take shortcuts. it will not work. some do see it, almost, but take that shortcut way, and fall off, possibly very damaged as a result. that is not the answer either.
some others also see it, and start to find their way back to wherever it is they come from, and go that way. those are very few, and you never hear about them, because they know.
i'm starting to see this within our communities too, more so since i live in an urban area. but it isn't totally gone, most can still go back home and find their way back.
that sick society has all these little bells, lights, big images on billboards, "buy this, you'll be happy!" type messages, but are only empty words, with no love, or truth in them. we can't fall for those things. "you don't know where you're going unless you know where you come from" is very true, and even more so now. we're seeing all kinds of things happen now, and we need to remember and be reminded of these things again.
forgetting who you are is like a little bit of death inside. remembering, being reminded, is like a gentle rain on your head after a hot day, it brings you back to life.
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If I were an Indian living on my land or recently moved from my land, I wouldn't be spending any time trying to convince others and justifying how Indian I really am. The world really isn't just one big village, there ain't no pot pourri of cultural identities to pick from at will and if you're Indian and off your land, in my opinion, you're pretty much in a no-mans land - rough going. My name is Dances With Badgers and I am a traditional full blood White man and I approve this message.
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If I were an Indian living on my land or recently moved from my land, I wouldn't be spending any time trying to convince others and justifying how Indian I really am. The world really isn't just one big village, there ain't no pot pourri of cultural identities to pick from at will and if you're Indian and off your land, in my opinion, you're pretty much in a no-mans land - rough going. My name is Dances With Badgers and I am a traditional full blood White man and I approve this message.
Then why would you spend so much time trying to dictate who is and who is not NDN?
If you know who you are then that is a good thing. Even better if you know who you are then you should be strong enough to not worry about who claims to be what, especially if they are doing no harm and not engaging in nuage crap.
To me your hostility shows that you may be dealing with other issues other then what this one is really about, and from their you are on the attack on some that may be doing no wrong whatsoever, and may in actuality have legitimate claims to who they claim to be. Those same people may in fact be doing the things you insist one should be doing, or have done to be an NDN in your eyes. Though I don't think anyone needs to have the approval or disapproval from a hateful person to claim the right to be who they are. In reality it is the community who decides if you are NDN or not.
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I guess for me I have a problem with so much of the white culture coming into our reservations.
I find that people who are worried about their blood
defend their blood, make excuse for the reason why they are less blood
are the ones with issues.
A person who is reconized by their people no matter the blood is
confident in who they are. they don't have to make excuses they
just know.
No matter what blood you claim you need to
spearate the american belief from the native beliefs.
I meet people and can tell by their action and how they talk that
they are not native no matter how much or how little the blood.
I would like to see native people stand up for themselves,
marry native people, being proud of being native, stay in their homelands.
I will stand by my beliefs is your parent are not enrolled
in the tribal nation then you are not native.
I don't care if it is federally reconized,
state reconized, tribal lands.
The tribal people in a area Do they recogize you!
I fit in all the follow
1.)Culturally Indian
I among my people and live my culture
2.)Socially Indian
Indian by blood that me! I am 4/4
3.)Politically Indian.
I live on my reservation and work for the tribe
4.)Seen as NDN by the community
yup because everyone know me and my family
plus related to alot of people
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I guess for me I have a problem with so much of the white culture coming into our reservations.
I find that people who are worried about their blood
defend their blood, make excuse for the reason why they are less blood
are the ones with issues.
A person who is reconized by their people no matter the blood is
confident in who they are. they don't have to make excuses they
just know.
No matter what blood you claim you need to
spearate the american belief from the native beliefs.
I meet people and can tell by their action and how they talk that
they are not native no matter how much or how little the blood.
I would like to see native people stand up for themselves,
marry native people, being proud of being native, stay in their homelands.
I will stand by my beliefs is your parent are not enrolled
in the tribal nation then you are not native.
I don't care if it is federally reconized,
state reconized, tribal lands.
The tribal people in a area Do they recogize you!
I fit in all the follow
1.)Culturally Indian
I among my people and live my culture
2.)Socially Indian
Indian by blood that me! I am 4/4
3.)Politically Indian.
I live on my reservation and work for the tribe
4.)Seen as NDN by the community
yup because everyone know me and my family
plus related to alot of people
First and foremost I have to say that I know who you are, and that you do a lot for your people.
So I will say that I do respect you and have admiration for based on what I know about you regardless if I know you in person or not.
I also will say that I think that you and I, and even most of whom are arguing against the term thin blood actually agree with what most of what the other is saying. It is just we are expressing much of it in a lot of different ways.
The problems come when some feel that are being accused of not being NDN, and when those on the other side think they are being called racists when they are in reality talking about nuager's, people with gggggg grandmother princess stories, and various other types of frauds, fakes, and pretendians. Heck I might as well add the words Fluff bunnies and twinkies to that list of fakes, but not sure if you are aware of those words lol.
Personally I know who I am, have no excuses to make for who I am, or who my family is or is not. I am a mixed blood person, and I have made peace with that for a long time now.
In fact I have used it to often times promote understanding between people who are Native and non Native. At times I think that is what all people who are mixed should do if they have family who are both NDN, and NON's. Well in any capacity I believe NDN people should contribute to their people because I feel that it is to be colonized not to do so. The non Native world teaches everyone to be about themselves and only themselves. This of course is opposed to Native people and how is not about self, but about community and your people.
Also with me though I agree with you that it is better that NDN's stay with their own and marry their own; I do see so many who do not, and am myself a product of people not doing so. That does not mean I support hippies, new age, and people with gggg grandmother stories. It is just that I try to find a way to hold people together in spite of all of that, and try to encourage them to find ways to retain or learn their culture in spite of that all.
That is why I say that I do agree with you more then you realize, but I just have a different take on things, and a different way of expressing that.
The only issue I would disagree with you on is enrollment as a means of absolute definition of who is NDN or not. I live in the on the lands of the Yokuts, Miwok, and Monache people. There are a lot of bands from these people who are non recognized by the federal government because they refused in the past to go to one rancheria or another. These are not people who are 1/64th and white looking. Most are well over half, with many being full blooded. An elder friend of mine and a few people in his family are the very last living people from his band to speak his their language.
Given the familiarity I have with issues like that, and the full spectrum of others; I can't view enrollment as a basis of who is NDN or not. It is not that I think it means nothing because I know it does, or at least for many. It is just that I see many pitfalls in using it as the absolute way of definition.
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My White blood is thin enough I may be able to find a Cherokee somewhere way back then and then I can assume the Indian identity. Some were Scotch and Norwegian and Irish and Dane and Cezch and some of these boat people crossed over a few hundred years ago. Maybe I'm barking up the wrong tree here, I should be looking for that hidden Mohawk connection 150 - 200 yrs ago or some other coastal bands. I may have to change my name from Dances With Badgers to Searches For Justification, it does have a solid ring to it.
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It seems the way thin blood people create problems both for themselves and others is they assume / demand / expect / feel entitled to way too much, on the basis of very little, while managing to completely deny the vast majority of their ancestry and whatever debts / IOUs / and limits are attached to this.
It seems thin blooded people like to get together in groups and encourage each other in just identifying with this small part of their heritage , until they completely loose site of reality - such as that they are almost entirely non native -
While it may be wrong to deny these peoples small amount of indigenous heritage, it seems to me to be even more dishonest and even more wrong, to deny the much larger non indigenous part of their heritage - and the world view and community affiliations that come with this.
This topic has come up in other threads, such as recently in the thread on Ward Churchill starting reply # 19
http://www.newagefraud.org/smf/index.php?topic=1632.0;all (http://www.newagefraud.org/smf/index.php?topic=1632.0;all)
People Of Distant Indian Ancestry
http://www.newagefraud.org/smf/index.php?topic=1111.0 (http://www.newagefraud.org/smf/index.php?topic=1111.0)
questionable ndn idenities & tribes
http://www.newagefraud.org/smf/index.php?topic=846.0 (http://www.newagefraud.org/smf/index.php?topic=846.0)
And there's another thread about the CNO specifically creating a task force to deal with these people organizing themselves into fake tribes...
http://www.newagefraud.org/smf/index.php?topic=1011.0 (http://www.newagefraud.org/smf/index.php?topic=1011.0)
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I can't speak for anybody but myself, but I have some experience in various Cherokee communities. It seems to be easy for folks who lost their tribal connection generations back to band together, start a "tribe" have "ceremonies" get new names, etc. I am always disappointed when they have no real contact with the federally recognized people that they claim to be from, and their version of culture is quite often at variance with real culture. I don't really care for the term "thinblood" but as it relates to a mindset and demeanor i guess it works. I know a number of people who don't look like cigar store ndns who are very involved in traditional culture, myself included, so appearance alone should not be used to judge. My edutsi (clan uncle) told me that "you are Cherokee if other Cherokee acknowledge you as such "(despite the lack of a card); I have also heard the other side of the coin, regarding a very blonde woman who worked for CNO and was having a hard time learning the language "she must be an Indian, she has a card that says so" said with a smirk :) It is a harder path to reunite with aniyunwiya than starting your own tribe but it is a better thing to do.
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So when somebody who is 1/4 dies their Native ancestors do not great them when they pass on to the other side?
I certainly hope that is not the case.
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So when somebody who is 1/4 dies their Native ancestors do not great them when they pass on to the other side?
I certainly hope that is not the case.
Of course not; but it does mean you're going to have three times as many non-Native ancestors waiting to greet you as well.
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As long as they welcome me, that's just fine :) I live to make them proud... ALL of them.
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As long as they welcome me, that's just fine :) I live to make them proud... ALL of them.
Good answer. I find it strange when someone with a drop or two of Native blood, concentrates on that part of their ancestry and forgets about all the other drops that make up who they are. To me, this shows disrespect to all your ancestors.
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Yes, I agree. I find that confusing as well.
A little about me:
All of my confirmed biological non-Indian grandparents were second generation American immigrations, so aside from my mother's father, my lineage is easy. 1/4 Irish (my dad's mother's parents were from Ireland), 1/4 French (my dad's father's parents were from France). 1/4 Jewish - My mother was adopted by white people, but we do know her biological mother's parents were Jewish immigrants. I am in the process of filing the paperwork to obtain her adoption records to confirm the identity of her father. The wife of her adopted mother's brother was a close friend of the biological mother, and told my mother (and later told me) that my mom's biological mother had confided in her that the father was American Indian (she told her he was a Sioux). But like I said, I am seeking to confirm this.
I never had any Irish people take me in, provide me shelter, feed me traditional Irish food, teach me to speak Irish, tell me about Irish history and the Irish culture.
I never had any French people take me in, provide me shelter, feed me traditional French cuisine, teach me to speak French, tell me about French history and the french culture.
I never had Jewish people take me in, provide me shelter, feed me traditional Jewish food, teach me to speak Hebrew, tell me about Jewish history and the Jewish culture and beliefs.
BUT, I did have several wonderful NDNs (Yankton and Oglala, but not at the same time) take me in, provide me shelter and clothing, feed me (sometimes traditional food, sometimes just ramen noodles and powdered milk... but always enough to keep me from feeling hunger pains), taught me some of the language so I could truly understand the messages they were giving me, taught me about the history and culture of who I have believed to be my grandfather's people since I can remember.
So yes, I have an equal number of ancestors from four distinct cultures (providing the adoption records confirm what we have been told). I do not wish to deny, ignore, or disrespect my Irish, French, or German (Jewish) ancestry. But I have had much more experience with those who I call my family, those who did the things that family does, those who cared for me and nurtured me, and taught me to have good character, no matter who my grandparents were. Those who stepped up and loved me when there was no one else. (In my other relatives' defense, they did not know me. The people who adopted my mother took custody of me for a while when I was little, and effectively kept my biological father and all his family away from me. I didn't know them, and I didn't know my mom's biological family since she was from a closed adoption). So if it weren't for those who stepped up and loved me, I would have had no one at all. They will always be my closest relations.
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As long as they welcome me, that's just fine :) I live to make them proud... ALL of them.
Good answer. I find it strange when someone with a drop or two of Native blood, concentrates on that part of their ancestry and forgets about all the other drops that make up who they are. To me, this shows disrespect to all your ancestors.
Well I both agree, and disagree with you on this point.
If somebody has never lived in a Native community, is not culturally native, and/or is highly mixed sure it would bring one to question why they would chose to search out that part of them and possibly claim it while ignoring the rest of their ancestry. Then again I don't think it is mine or anyone else's decision to dictate what path another person choses to walk on. If their reasons are not bad ones then I feel no need to intrude on that decision if it is being done in a good way.
However let's take a look at the hypothetical 1/4 by blood person I mentioned. What if they grew up their entire lives in a NDN community/Rez etc and has been raised in their tribal culture. If they were raised in only that culture and that was their identity since birth why would they need to go out find out about other "ancestries?" Race and culture aren't things that are not always so easily defined by physical appearance or things such as BQ. If they felt no need whatsoever to search out other things, then I would see no reason for them to do so.
Also on the same thought process for the most point in let's say the Euro American society there is no really culture. Most came here and replaced their ethnic identity with the word "white" and with mixing with other "whites," over time forgot and lost who they really were.
So let's say this 1/4 person has Scottish ancestry. Considering there really isn't much of a traditional Scottish community here, how exactly would one expect them to learn to be Scottish? Should they go spend some time in Scottland, read some books, and attend some highland games here in the states? To me doing such things is not much different then what the nuage, twinkies, and people with those ggggg grandmother Cherokee princess stories do?
How about an historical figure such as Quanah parker who was half white and half Comanche? As far as I know, and I could be wrong; he didn't ever try and find out about his white culture did he? What he did do was live as a Comanche, and fought hard for his people for as long as he could. By doing so was he disrespecting his ancestors?
I myself am a mixed person, and that is something that I have no choice but to acknowledge. The thing, is that does not mean that my identity must be "mixed" as well. I do not beleive in mixing cultural ways any more then I believe in mixing tribal ways. To me it both things seem rather nuage and twinkie. That is because doing such things will often lead a person to only do things that "they like," instead of doing them correctly. Those are often the things I think lead some down the road to be nuage and ultimately exploitation of one or both ways.
Sure they should be proud of all that they are, but it does not mean they must live as both even if others think that they should.
To me being NDN has so very much to do with being part of an NDN community, and being recognized by them as such. Everything else such as BQ, skin tone, status etc means almost nothing as long as you are part of, and accepted in the NDN community.
Then of course my question about what happens to the 1/4 person when they die was a sort of way to illustrate just how much the concept of BQ, and thin blood I believe is Euro based concept more so then it shall ever, or should ever be a NDN one.
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You talk of the trials the full blood indian has but reverse it. I was raised on the rez but my hair is gold, my skin is light. I fought everyone growing up. But it taught me that I am strong and no longer do others words hurt me. I say all indians, full & mixed have a hard road to follow and we should not fight amongst ourselves. We are indian some are lighter and some are darker but we all have our beliefs in our hearts.
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This topic is a painful one and painful for folks on all sides of the argument.
in general I agree that the person should have NDN DNA, have social and political connections with NDNs and have NDN family members. I've got all that.
But what do I say to my FBI AThabascan friend who was adopted away from his family and when he returned to Alaska found that his relatives were either, dead or born again Christians? He's not sure if he is an NDN!
What so I say to someone who knows they have the DNA. but no ther tiesand dearly wants to understand a part of themselves.
In the latter case I tell them to volunteer to work with an NDN non-profit. A real one, perhaps a food pantry or a diabetes awareness group. If they show themselves to be good honest humans, would it hurt to teach them to make fry bread? Should they learn to pray in the way of their Nation? Where is the cut-off?
Sadly there are no easy answers.
Cosmic Oppossum
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If people have been adopted out which is a part of our history
they still belong to the tribe but they are not native.
They will have to learn their culture again.
The way to do that is go and live among your people again.
Making fry bread has nothing to do with native people.
It is a type of bread they learned how to make when the
government gave them rations.
Most non-profit but all are run by wannabes.
It is hard to understand by I know this
If you people acknowledge you then you belong.
Adopted people always belong back to their people
but that is a choice.
We have light skin blur eyed native here on nthe rez
and they are Indian.