Author Topic: Prime Example  (Read 10852 times)

apukjij

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Prime Example
« on: July 21, 2010, 03:32:06 pm »
He mentions NAFPS here. This is what i would call a prime example of "He didn't get it". The irony of it is that he is a minister, so it begs the question what is lacking in his faith that would lead him on this path of spiritual materialism. And of course he conveniently leaves out the colonialistic and genocidal natures of this assault on Native Religion and its Spirituality.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/wes-isley/native-american-religion_b_648437.html
Wes IsleyWriter, biker, minister.

As my spiritual path has evolved, I've discovered a growing appreciation and respect for Native American spiritual beliefs and traditions. I know there are many differences among tribes, but in general, they all appear to share a reverence for the land, for animals and plants, for the bonds of community, for the wisdom of the elderly and for the contributions of their ancestors. I find these perspectives compelling and valuable because they are unfortunately absent in my own culture's religious traditions.

Sounds innocent enough, right? Hardly. Turns out many Native Americans are offended about the growing attendance by whites at their powwows and the usage or appropriation of their rituals and symbols for pricey New Age spiritual retreats. You can't blame them when tragic deaths occur at "Native" sweat lodges led by white folk like Oprah guru James Ray, when self-appointed celebrities like Heidi and Spencer Pratt announce that they wish to be known as "White Wolf" and "Running Bear,", or when poplet Ke$ha performs with a full feather headdress for no apparent reason.

While these are extreme cases, to be sure, Native Americans are organizing around this issue and becoming more vocal about what they see as outright theft of their ancestral spiritual traditions. The site New Age Frauds & Plastic Shamans aims to uncover hucksters posing as "real" Native Americans, and more thoughtful blogs like Native Appropriations and articles by Native spokespersons nudge us not to be so arrogant and clueless.

So what does this have to do with me? First let me say that I am as white as they come, and if there is any Native American blood in my family, it's well hidden. The only claim I make is that what little I know of Native American spirituality stirs my soul at a deep level. There's something about the simple act of acknowledging the cardinal directions that quickly puts me in my rightful place on the Earth. And I have come to believe that all animals possess insightful qualities and attributes that we can learn from if we just slow down and look. But some anthropologists are up in arms, and some Native Americans say, "Indian spirituality is for Indians only." If that statement is true, I think it bodes poorly for our future as a nation and also for us as spiritual people. I may not be conducting sweat lodges or dressing in native garb, but am I allowed to incorporate Native American-inspired traditions into my own private spiritual practice?

We have to ask ourselves whether culture, race or DNA forever determines our spiritual path. Is Christianity only for white Anglo-Saxons? Are all Catholics Irish or Italian? Can a Westerner practice yoga, meditation or Tai Chi? Are all Arabs Muslim? Turn the tables and ask: Can a Cherokee be a "real" Christian? Or, can Native Americans celebrate Easter or Christmas? Does their own cultural and spiritual heritage prevent them from understanding what these traditions truly mean?

While it is important to root out fraud no matter what your religion is (Jim and Tammy Faye Bakker, anyone?), I prefer to believe that our spirits are bigger than the tiny, particular corners of the world into which we are born. I understand that Native Americans have experienced a near extinction of their culture in this country, and the appropriation of spiritual traditions seems like yet another violation.

But don't all religions evolve? For example, Christianity evolved from Judaism and ancient mystery cults. Yet the Christianity practiced today in the U.S. has little in common with that of the early Church, and today Christians have numerous worldwide denominations and offshoots, all of which evolved out of particular cultures and peoples. I believe this is a good thing. Perhaps Native American spiritual traditions have an opportunity to evolve, too. And if calling it "Native American" is distasteful, then give this emerging spiritual practice a name of its own and allow it a space to flourish. If it has no validity, it will eventually wither and disappear.

I don't know who gets to make this decision, and I deplore all that my own ancestors did to the Native tribes when they arrived in North America. But as a result of my meager exposure to Native American spirituality, I believe I have changed for the better. How wonderfully ironic! Perhaps their spirituality is the Native American's most enduring legacy for the people now living on this continent, what some refer to as Turtle Island. Religion certainly once kept Whites and Native Americans apart. What do we gain by maintaining this separation? If you believe that places, such as Turtle Island, have a spirit, does that Great Spirit play favorites?

Offline Defend the Sacred

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Re: Prime Example
« Reply #1 on: July 21, 2010, 03:34:42 pm »
You're right. He totally missed the point.

Re: Prime Example
« Reply #2 on: July 21, 2010, 05:45:25 pm »
Oh, I commented on this on the other thread.

The comments on the article, found at the bottom is where the education lies.. that is if someone is trying to understand the issue from ndn point of view.  The article itself, yeah, the guy doesn't see it, doesn't get it, but, I'm glad he wrote it as it gives a platform for ndn's to state it and I can hope that by reading the feedback the author will 'get it'.. and maybe too.. a few others who actually sit and read the comments..

press the little black on silver arrow Music, 1) Bob Pietkivitch Buddha Feet http://www.4shared.com/file/114179563/3697e436/BuddhaFeet.html

Offline Defend the Sacred

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Looks like Isely doesn't just complain about NDNs on HuffPo. He's also selling "shamanism" services:  http://www.greensborominister.com/shamanism.htm

Repeatedly says, "free initial consultation." - which I assume means he usually charges. Some minister.

"As a modern shaman, my intent is the same, yet I use a cross-cultural and contemporary approach that reflects my interfaith ministry. While I am not and do not claim to be a native or indigenous shaman, I believe the path of a shaman is open to all."

And he's selling ceremonies that he claims may have "Native American" content: http://greensborominister.com/wedding.htm

"The flexibility of an interfaith ceremony allows us to incorporate many traditions—Christianity, Judaism, Buddhism, Native American, Wicca and others—to create a day that you and your loved ones will cherish for years to come.
...
"My Fees
Fees vary based upon your individual needs and desire as well as the complexity of your ceremony. We can discuss fees in more detail when we visit to plan your ceremony."


He also has a facebook page where he's attempting to drum up business (no pun intended).

http://www.facebook.com/pages/Rev-Wes-Isley-interfaith-minister/359588736010



"Rev. Wes Isley, interfaith minister -  Help me break in my new drum with a guided shamanic meditation. Unlock your subconscious to find the answers you seek. And ask about your exclusive Facebook Friend discount from now until June 30! (May 13 at 8:30am)"



And an aside on his use of "interfaith". In my opinion this is an inappropriate and misleading use of the term. Respectful interfaith gatherings involve representatives of different religions participating in a service together - usually a simple prayer service where everyone speaks on behalf of their tradition. IMHO "interfaith" is about cooperation among spiritual leaders who are rooted in their respective traditions, not about an individual who is involved in eclectic dabbling, trying to represent multiple faiths themselves, none of which they are fully a part of. Again, from what I'm seeing, he's got it all backwards.
« Last Edit: July 19, 2014, 12:04:19 am by Kathryn »

Offline Defend the Sacred

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Re: Prime Example
« Reply #4 on: July 22, 2010, 10:18:03 pm »
On his website, this is where Isley says he got his ministerial credentials: EarthStar Spiritual Center - INTERFAITH MINISTER ORDINATION

Looks like your standard "mail-order ministry" deal.

-------------begin quote-------------------

INTERFAITH MINISTER ORDINATION

God is everywhere, in everyone, in everything & in every dimension of time!

 
Congratulations on walking the path as an ordained interfaith minister. You will find many doors opening as a minister of faith.

Ordination provides you with legal/spiritual rights that are not available for laypersons...

*Baptisms/Christenings

*Blessings

*Ceremonies & Rituals

*Counseling

*Funerals/Crossovers

*Healing

*Marriages

As an ordained minister, you can perform spiritual ceremonies legally. You may also start your own church or spiritual organization, & be tax-exempt to receive donations.

 

By using our Distance Option, you can be an Ordained Minister.

After receiving the information packet, send us the following to begin your ministry:


*Personal Information Sheet

*Ministry Information Sheet

*Spiritual Biography (1-3 pages, double-spaced, 12 pt font)

*Ministerial Thesis   (4-8 pages, double-spaced, 12 pt font) (topic presented from 3 perspectives)

*1½ inch x 1½ inch color photo for your minister ID badge, or you may email a color photo.

*Ordination Fee: $150
All ministers will receive a student booklet, ordination certificate & photo ID.

E-mail or call for an information packet.

-----------------end quote------------------------

I think many of us, when we hear the word, "minister", we assume there's a congregation that the person ministers to. But this looks more like a business.

Re: Prime Example
« Reply #5 on: July 22, 2010, 11:59:10 pm »
Ah, well, that's why he's not 'getting it' or opening his ears to listen where perhaps some day he might just hear it..

After seeing all you've got here Kathryn, I'd have to say he did not write this article to actually communicate and find help in understanding the complexities of another culture.  He wrote it to justify his behavior and delusions of being a 'shaman' and 'minister'.
press the little black on silver arrow Music, 1) Bob Pietkivitch Buddha Feet http://www.4shared.com/file/114179563/3697e436/BuddhaFeet.html

Offline Defend the Sacred

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Re: Prime Example
« Reply #6 on: July 23, 2010, 01:03:03 am »
Since he does not appear to have a congregation, my impression is that he wrote the article to try to find some customers.

Offline CuAnnan

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Re: Prime Example
« Reply #7 on: July 25, 2010, 09:44:41 am »
I found this website thanks to that guy, as it happens.
I keep learning on this forum.
This is good.

Offline nemesis

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Re: Prime Example
« Reply #8 on: July 25, 2010, 10:17:10 am »
PAWNED!

Interesting links

Your google fu skills are strong Kathryn

 8)

Offline Sparks

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Re: Prime Example — Wes Isley — Huffington Post
« Reply #9 on: May 10, 2018, 06:26:33 am »
Someone recently sent me that article for comment, and first I found this forum thread:

http://www.newagefraud.org/smf/index.php?topic=2798  [Press from HuffPo, and hello.]

Oh, I commented on this on the other thread.

The comments on the article, found at the bottom is where the education lies.. that is if someone is trying to understand the issue from ndn point of view.  The article itself, yeah, the guy doesn't see it, doesn't get it, but, I'm glad he wrote it as it gives a platform for ndn's to state it and I can hope that by reading the feedback the author will 'get it'.. and maybe too.. a few others who actually sit and read the comments..

I cannot find any comments; have they been removed or is there a trick to make them visible? The article was somehow updated seven years ago:

THE BLOG 07/20/2010 04:56 am ET Updated May 25, 2011
Native American Religion: For Members Only?
By Wes Isley

Some minister, by the way (my bolding in quote):

Rev. Wes Isley
Writer and interfaith minister
The Rev. Wes Isley is an interfaith minister with a special interest in nature-centered and Neo-Pagan spirituality. A student of various Christian traditions for most of his religious life, Rev. Isley today finds inspiration in a practice based on modern shamanic techniques and Haitian Vodou. He leads individual and group meditations, and offers blessings, weddings and other services for those who prefer an alternative approach to spirit. Rev. Isley is also an award-winning writer and editor with more than 20 years of experience writing about health and wellness, travel, politics, entertainment and the independent grocery retailing industry. He can be contacted at greensborominister.com.

Below that bio there are links to some 30 articles of his in The Huffington Post.

Offline Diana

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Re: Prime Example
« Reply #10 on: May 10, 2018, 01:27:07 pm »
Your right, they deleted the comments. I remember that article because I was one of the hundreds that commented. And I also remember about 90% of comments were against this guy and his whiny rant.

If I remember correctly he commented back several times trying to defend his position, but it only seemed to make things worse. He was rightfully mocked and got his ass served to him on a silver platter. Lol

Maybe somebody should look into why Huffpo deleted the comments since since a good portion of them were pro Indian. Hmmm...interesting.