NAFPS Forum
General => Frauds => Topic started by: debbieredbear on August 09, 2006, 05:47:44 pm
-
For a meer $35 you too can become a member!
http://www.theunitedcherokeenation.com/index.html
-
They were just trashed on another list. He claims "Clans" in about 36 states. But 15 are under his control, 13 more are controlled by three others, then the rest scattered. The Ohio one is a Chief Angelia "Speaks with Spirits" Rose in Ravenna Ohio. She raises Chinchillas in Ohio, but the Domain is in California. Here is her webpage. http://www.theupcn.com/ It looks like another "group" but is suppose to be one of "Two Eagles" Clans. frederica
-
There is a lot of information under research needed concerning United Cherokee Nation. :) Weheli
-
I read yours. They attracted attention here as a few months ago they began placing recuiting ads in town newspapers. Have enough here already. The big item was the request for birth certificates. Then people began quoting Civil Codes to "Red Hawk". I don't think they are as wide-spread over the U.S. as they would like for you to believe with their "Clans". Just another "group". frederica
-
Anyone can have a website, make up whatever they, lie, cheat, and steal and on and on. But what we have all forgotten to mention is that picture of the 'Indian' on the horse. I laughed so hard I had to show the pic to the guy sitting next to me in the library. That guy ought to be the poser poster child.
Jospeh
-
LOL Joseph, I saw it and tried hard to forget it. Someone even had to hold the horse for him. frederica
-
I felt sad that someone had to play dress up to be something they are not. The guy seems so deluded and so into his fantasy. I am surprised that more people don't pick up on their insanity.
-
but see thats just the attraction. these groups attract people who desparately want to belong and only have the fantasy myth stereotype image in their minds of what being native is. until they are educated in reality, they won't even see how rediculous these people look.
-
they get it from the countless aforementioned online, tacky to the max websites and newsgroups that have the same images. They see it enough and after awhile they believe it is real and since many people don't question what they may see... or their poobahs, it easily becomes the way it really is and their reality. That goes for most things in this area of tackiness.
-
guess they got wind of the attention.... from their website.
http://www.theupcn.com/FAQ.html
?
It has recently come to my attention that there are some incredibly stupid
people out there who are claiming that some of our phone numbers do not
work (including mine!), that one of our members is Puerto Rican who "doesn't
have the right to call himself a Cherokee", ? that we don't have very many items
in our store, that Richard White Horse is actually someone named Kandy
Cook, etc. etc. ? This is the only time I am going to lower myself to respond to
these types of comments as I feel it is a complete waste of my time to bother
with these misinformed trouble makers. ? Trust me, my phone number IS IN
SERVICE. ? My number is 330-289-9993 and anyone is welcome to call me. ? I
have heard how I actually live in California and various other places (they can't
even decide where they want to accuse me of living). ? This makes me laugh so
hard. ? The reason why the web site address shows up on allwhois.com as
being in California is because we pay for a private registration to reduce spam
and this is Yahoo's address in California. ? (The words "private registration,
contact administration" might have been your first clue.) ? And Richard 'White
Horse' Huston is definitely NOT Kandy Cook, whoever that may be ? (that
sounds like a girl's name - he has gotten a good laugh out of that one). ? As far
as your calling one of our members a "Puerto Rican who doesn't have the right
to call himself a Cherokee", all I have to say is, shame on you. ? We are all
'mixed bloods' ? and no one has the right to look down on another human being. ?
Isn't this the very type of prejudice and racial slurs that our people have been
trying to fight against for many years? ? You should be ashamed of yourselves.
As far as our asking for a copy of a birth certificate with an application so that
we can "steal your identity", this is absolutely ridiculous. ? First, if you are that
paranoid, then you shouldn't join anything. ? Secondly, if you feel there is some
information that would ? enable someone to steal your identity, then by all means
black out the offending information. ? All we need to see is your name. ? And we
are not asking for your "passport". ? What it actually says is that we need a
"passport photo". ? This is only to make the I.D. card. ?
We are not asking for social security numbers or credit card numbers and lots
of organizations ask for a copy of your birth certificate, including the Western
Cherokee Nation, the United Cherokee Nation, and several others. ? Again, you
are more than welcome to black out any offending information. ?
As for our store, we will be selling more items in addition to our mug as it
grows. ? We hope to be adding T-shirts, flags, keyrings and mousepads in the
very near future. ?
We are trying very hard to do a good thing for our people and we will not be
discouraged by a few people that will spread vicious lies about anyone and
anything just to have something to talk about. ? But I guess if you are picking on
us, then you are leaving everyone else alone for awhile (and giving us a good
hearty laugh in the meantime).
Sincerely,
Angie Speaks with Spirits Rose
Principal Chief - living in OHIO
330-289-9993
-
I think this is a splinter group of the United Cherokee group, This is the United People of the Cherokee Nation or something like that. She use to be a clan chief of the United Cherokee Nation of Idaho. But this group is in Ohio and I recall she raises some sort of hamsters or something. Both groups were being hit upon by another group of people. I think that is what she is referring to. There were some questions if there were the same, but they are not at this point in time. frederica
-
The United People of the Cherokee Nation
Chief David ( Crazy Coyote ) Deffenbaugh
815 Second Street
Lacon, Illinois 61540
Home phone: (309) 246- 4022
Cell phone: (309) 224- 9298
Fax- (309) 246- 4022
E-mail: ole_deer_hunter@yahoo.com
Illinois Clan Website: http://www.upcnilclan.com
National Tribal Website: http://www.theupcn.com
I received a email today asking about this guy. I see that he is part of the UPCN and is Located in IL. After going on his IL website I noticed he had pictures from a Veterans Pow Wow held at Seven Circles Heritage Center, Edwards, IL. Which we have discussed on another link. It appears to me that he is giving the "appearance that his "clan" put this pow wow on. NOT TRUE!!! However there is a link on his site to Seven Circles Heritage Center. :-/
I heard that he "Chief David" has been going to pow wows in IL presenting himself to be something he is not! Also asking for information on well known Elders in IL. so he can give his site the appearance of being legit by exploting these Honored Elders.
"Chief David" , who made you a Chief, Clan, ect??? Cherokee it is not.
Anyone have any information on this guy??
Wado Weheli :)
-
The Question:
Not so long ago I remember you were very upset that you could find no
documented proof of your native ancestry. How is it that you now call
yourself a chief?
The Reply:
Because I have talked to others who knew my family and knew that my Great-Great Grandmother was Cherokee. I also went to a pow wow and heard people mention the names of my Grandfather who was Potawatomi. In talking to them, they told me he was a story teller at the pow wows and taught many people how to make regalia and various things. He also was an Elder of the Potatawomi Clan from Tiskilwa, IL, the Prairie Clan which is now located in Iowa. He was 1/2 Potawatomi and 1/2 Irish. So documentation no, I have none, but, I have at least 80 people who have verified these facts.
I was appointed Clan Chief of the United People of the Cherokee Nation. I am very proud of my NA heritage regardless of the fact that I can not prove it with paper documents. I have been fighting and will continue to fight for the rights of Native American people, burial grounds protection and the preservation of our culture including language. Not only for one tribe but for all tribes and Nations. I am also very proud of my Nation, The United People of the Cherokee Nation and I am very proud to serve as my people as Clan Chief. My Indian name Crazy Coyote was given to me by a Pawnee Elder by the name of Dee Wright. I use my Indian name to honor this great Elder and mentor.
I have found out many things since I wrote that email. I have talked to many people who knew my Grandfather. At the pow wow I spoke of, I just happened to be walking past a group of Elders who were talking about people that are now gone and I heard my Grandfathers name mentioned. I asked about him and I spent the rest of the afternoon with them learning about my Grandfather. I never knew him, he died when I was very young.
Thank you,
Dave
-
Mo,
Thank you for the personal response. I will be getting back to "Chief David" just a tiny bit more of research and contacts to make.
I just noted that Red Hawk aka Laughry started the Unified Free Cherokee and Jerry Edwards was also a "clan member and either was kicked out or left. The name changed to UPCN and Laughry resigned?? as Chief, we all have read in another thread about Red Hawk, who is a fraud.
My Question: Why is the UPCN principal chief "speaks with spirits identity being kept such a secret, no picture of her but all other "chiefs" are posted on the main site of the UPCN. Angie do you have something to hide??? O by the way I tried your PH# 303-289-9993 several times this week and it continues to say " no longer in service". Well I suppose all the phones I used are not working!!! :-/
weheli ::)
-
n'yo...but there will be no more info from me. apparently i have been banned from the yahoo group he is in. just as well..everything there made me angry anyway. many of the people you mentioned in regards to the united cherokee are there. the owner of the group says she is enrolled yet is very tolerant and in my opinion encouraging of the frauds there spreading untruths. its a shame. there are many there who take everything posted as the real deal. i think debbie is there...maybe she can shed some light into why i am suddenly banned. i can only guess someone saw this post here.
-
Which group is that?
-
http://360.yahoo.com/lists-j8rlOlU.d6MLIPfV7jCBxZ1gGIDoPqg-?cq=1
[highlight][/highlight] This is Davids 360 page and also blog on it you will find favorite groups.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/thenativeamericanfamily/messages/13592 13592 Fwd: Elder's Meditation of the day October 1
meditation@... wrote: Subject: Elder's Meditation of the day October 1 To: meditation@... Date: Sun, 1 Oct 2006 04:01:01 -0400 (EDT) ... ? Dave
ole_deer_hunter ? .Dave is moderator of both of these sites and I am sure there are yet more.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/nativeamericanfamilyprayerwarriorsociety/
I do not know MO if these may be the groups or not. ? They all support or are involved with the UPCN.
[highlight][/highlight]LETTER TO ME FROM DAVID
Osiyo,
First let me apologize for being so late in answering your email. I try to answer as soon as I can, but the last couple weeks I have very busy.
We try to follow traditional ways a much as possible. But we have so many that don't know the traditions ways that we have to teach these things.
The Veterans gathering was held in Edwards Illinois at Seven Circles Heritage Center. It was a wonderful gathering and pow wow. We have pictures in our Website.
I think the best way to answer your questions is to let you visit our websites and you will see what we are all about. One thing that we have done that is not traditional is we have our Clans different. We are trying to reach people in all the states, so for this reason we have our Clans set up by state. So instead of a bird clan or potato clan we have the Illinois Clan etc. We did this so that each clan can help as many people learn the Cherokee Ways as possible.
For instance the Office for the Illinois Clan is in Lacon. I am the Clan Chief for Illinois and Temporary Clan Chief for Iowa. Our Tribal Office is in Revenna, Ohio.
All the information about joining us and applications are located in the National Tribal Website just click on this link and it will take you to that site: http://www.theupcn.com/.
The Illinois Website: http://www.upcnilclan.com/.
Right now we are teaching Cherokee Language Classes over the Internet and this is being done through the Cherokee Nation in Oklahoma. Unfortunately those classes are filled up now. But there will be new classes starting soon. The classes are free. They usually run an hour long. You will be able to see your instructor and he can talk to you verbally, but you have to type in what you want to say and he reads it from a monitor and then talks to you verbally, you will be able to hear him or her. The instructor for this session is Mr. Ed Fields. There are several instructors. However, I am purchasing the 20 classes on CD so our people can use it to learn by without having to wait for a new class to begin if they wish.
We also have our own chat room in which you will be able to meet and talk to members from other Clans as well as our own. Here you will also meet other Chiefs and the Tribal Elders as well as Clan members. The Chiefs and Elders have an on line Council room where we can hold Tribal conferences and do Tribal business. I think you will enjoy Nation.
We are Cherokee that the Nations won't allow to join their Nation for whatever reason. Yes, we do accept non-Cherokees also, I am married to a woman who has no Indian blood what so ever. So we allow them to join as an Associate Member. They can not hold a Council position. They can never be a Chief, an Elder or anything of the nature. They can serve on committees and even be a committee leader, such as food committee, weaving committee or whatever. People of Cherokee blood are only permitted to hold Council positions. We also have members from other Tribes and Nations, but they too are not allowed to serve on Council positions. We have several people who are Blackfoot, Cheyenne, Sioux, etc.
Please check out our Websites, then if you have any other questions you may contact me, or any of the Elders or Chiefs. Should you decide to join us I would be your Chief. I think you will enjoy being a member of our Nation, Clan and Family. You will be truly welcome.
Wado
Chief David Crazy Coyote
roflmao HE IS GOING TO BE MY CHIEF????? ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D :o :o :o :o :P :P :P
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? WEHELI ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
-
Which group is that?
my mistake..i think the archives are down. i was speaking about the nativeamericancircle group.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nativeamericancircle/
-
from what i have seen dave is generally a decent guy who is just so desparate to "belong" that he fell for the phoney tribe/chief bit. i think thats true of many of those who join such things. of course we all know the consequences inherent in those choices, not only for those members but also for all ndn people. the phoney tribes start speaking for all ndn people.
-
Oh, yeah, Nena invited me to Native American Circle. I read it now and then. David got a bit POed at me for objecting to someone using Ted Perry's fake Chief Seattle speech. I live 3 blocks from Chief Seattle's grave. I know some of his descendants. I get sick of Indian people passing off a white man's speech as Chief Seattle's. Mostly, since Nena has pretty much turned it over to Dave, I am not participating. Lots of twinkies on the site, or PDIAs.
-
Oh, yeah, Nena invited me to Native American Circle. I read it now and then. David got a bit POed at me for objecting to someone using Ted Perry's fake Chief Seattle speech. I live 3 blocks from Chief Seattle's grave. I know some of his descendants. I get sick of Indian people passing off ? a white man's speech as Chief Seattle's. Mostly, since Nena has pretty much turned it over to Dave, I am not participating. Lots of twinkies on the site, or PDIAs.
i remember that. same here. every time i speak up i get "reprimanded" lol but of course in groups like that ndns are to be seen and not heard right? that would explain why i get in so much trouble. just never learned that lesson very well.
-
THe last straw was when someone posted a saying from RobertFranzone. When I pointed out he was not Indian, was a woman beater, a felon and more, the response I got was "Well, his words helped me." Far be it for me to stand in the way of someone who wants words of wisdom from a scumball. :o
-
I have been asked to share that the United People of the Cherokee Nation and The United Cherokee Nation are two complete different entities. The United People of the Cherokee Nation are not trying to organize into a fake tribe. They are people of Cherokee heritage, getting together to share and socialize. I can understand that. In Seattle there is a Tlingit Haida Association and also NABI which is for Blackfeet people. They are both quite legit.
-
HERE WE HAVE THIER OWN WORDS;http://www.theupcn.com/ A full tribal membership and an associate
membership. Below is a description of each type of membership as well as a link for the actual
application. The application needs to be filled out in its entirety, notarized and sent to the Tribal
Office for processing. Your card will be processed promptly and you will receive your card and
paperwork in the mail from the Tribal Office in Ohio. All applications and donations should be sent
to:
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------TRIBAL MEMBERSHIP APPLICATION: This is for anyone with Cherokee blood who would like
to become a full member of The United People of the Cherokee Nation. You do not need to be a
member of a federally recognized tribe to become a tribal member, just be able to claim Cherokee
ancestry. Once you sign your application and have it notarized, this becomes a sworn statement
which in 20 years, becomes a legal court document. We ask that a donation of $25.00 be sent
along with your application for a photo I.D. but this is not required. We have a nonphoto I.D.
available which is free, though we would appreciate a $5.00 donation to help towards printing,
laminating and shipping costs but again, this is not required.
ASSOCIATE MEMBERSHIP APPLICATION: This is for anyone who would like to become a
member of The United People of the Cherokee Nation but does not actually have Cherokee blood.
The only requirement is that the individual has the desire to follow the Red Road with us and
preserve the Cherokee heritage and spirituality. We ask that a donation of $25.00 be sent along
with your application for a photo I.D. but this is not required. We have a nonphoto I.D. available
which is free, though we would appreciate a $5.00 donation to help towards printing, laminating
and shipping costs but again, this is not required.
___________________________________________________________________
We also have our own chat room in which you will be able to meet and talk to members from other Clans as well as our own. Here you will also meet other Chiefs and the Tribal Elders as well as Clan members. The Chiefs and Elders have an on line Council room where we can hold Tribal conferences and do Tribal business.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Here you will see "Tribal", "non-Cherokee", and on line Council, Chief, Clan member meetings. A good way for socialism.
I am not going to repeat my self ANYMORE, about this group, do as one may. That is always ones choice.
We First had the Free Cherokee Nation out of Floridahttp://www.freecherokee.org/chief.htm or could it be :-/http://www.ufcn.net/index/index04.php , Jerry Edwards and Redhawk was Part of this group>Jerry Edwards was either kicked out or left> some from this group started the UCN where Chief Red Hawk was chief he resigned but remains and Elder ; http://www.theunitedcherokeenation.com/index.html , Chief Two Eagles took Over> from this group ,the UCN , people left and the United People of the Cherokee Nation was formed . CONFUSING????
Call it all whatever you want, the issue I had concerning the use of an Elders name without permission has been taken care of in a good way. :)
So if some , even debbiebear, wants to say they are legit ,let each search there own heart for the truth.
This is all I will speak on this subject, unless an Elder, a Real Chiefs, ect. name is used that I know personaly.
Wado Weheli :)
-
weheli,
I was asked to post that. I invited the person on to say it themselves, but they declined. I wish he would an you could ask him. My original post dealt with the Idaho group and I can say they are frauds because they are starting a fake tribe. Beyond that, I do not know because there is what you found on the website and what others have told me.
-
Those two groups have been confusing to more than one. I think now they are two different groups and the confusion stems from the woman's name "speaks with spirits". She was a "Clan Chief" of the Idaho group now she is "Principal Chief" of the "United People of the Cherokee Nation". They are a seperate groups. The Idaho group is the one that started running newspaper ads for membership around here. Over the past summer they received some unwelcome responses. That's when it was said they were 2 seperate groups. The "United People of the Cherokee Nation" have two forms of membership. Full which requires Cherokee heritage and Associate which requires none. Of course, a donation of $25 is suggested but not required. For photo ID $5 if you do not send donation. They are social groups. frederica