Reply #4
sylvia
I know how you guys feel about this, but when you hear those stories of simpler times, when women were revered as sacred and elders were respected and listened to, when a woman's moontime was viewed as a time of great power instead of a "curse" (as it has been in much of the Western world), when the connection with nature and the Creator were not just reserved for church on Sundays, but an integral part of daily life, you can't help being intrigued. And I know many, many people who feel the same way.
Reply #11
sylvia
At the Elders Gathering, for example, there's always one Abenaki GM, Nanatasis Bluto-Delventhal, who seems very traditional; she usually does moontime teachings for women there. No fancy New Age content... only oral teachings, nothing written down... she says she doesn't take any money for teachings, ever... only asks that participants help to pay her expenses if she has to travel so that she at least doesn't LOSE money.
And I understand what you're saying, in terms of "you have to LIVE the culture to understand the spirituality," but I have to say that N's. moontime teachings have positively affected me, even though I haven't grown up in a tribe. So there definitely ARE some things that can be taught, even if they're just a fragment of the big picture.
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Sylvia , I know it can be really confusing because there is often real traditions that get mixed with stuff people make up , and good experiences often gets mixed with other stuff that isn't so good.
When people attend an event looking to find something special , often they do , just because they are looking .
If Nanatasi was truly traditional , I don't think she would have been comfortable attending Dhyani's gatherings . Just the charge to attend would have got most traditional people at least asking some probing questions about who these people were . I doubt any person who respects traditions would want to support someone like Dhyani who makes claims about herself which appear to be wholly fictional . But as you can see , Nanatasis has done this by giving workshops at these gatherings .
http://www.sunray.org/20th_Native_American_Elders__G/20th_native_american_elders__g.html Elder & Workshop Presenter Bios
NANATASIS BLUTO-DELVENTAL, ABENAKI
Turtle Clan Mother/ Abenaki
* Sits as Elder on several Councils in Vermont & Nationally
* Shares Abenaki Turtle Clan Moontime Teachings with women
* Healer who works with herbs, massage therapy, Reiki, & Therapeutic Touch
* Involved with Ceremonies & Counsels people
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Gathering Registration Fees:
(Registration fee does not include camping.)
$155 - Adults 18 to 65, (all 3 days) Friday-Sunday
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We respectfully care-take the teachings and ceremonies shared during the Elders’ Gathering. THESE TEACHINGS AND CEREMONIES CANNOT BE BOUGHT OR SOLD. Modest registration fees help cover the travel, food, and accommodations for the Elders, their caretakers and families, and other administrative and promotional expense for the Gathering. The Gathering is a “not for profit??? event run entirely by volunteers.------------
Workshop Program Fees:
Half Day Workshops $40 per session
Full Day Workshops $80 per day
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Despite the words saying otherwise , there is a charge to attend .
If Nanatasis is so concerned about people making stuff up and warping Native culture , it seems strange she would support someone who is doing this . And not only is she supporting someone who is doing this , she is actively participating by separating the "desireable" parts of the culture from the communities and context it belongs in , and trimming this down to fit non native culture, by selling "workshops" . This isn't in any way 'traditional', and I have doubts about how "real" this is .
Tribes that had traditions around a womans moontime generally practiced some sort of total seclusion or exclusion from certain activities , for a few days every month . As woman who live together generally have their moontime about the same time , these woman would not be solitary but a part of the communities life and rythm .
So for one thing , I really doubt there is "traditional teachings " that can be seperated from the communitty and actual activities that woman traditionally participated in , or didn't participate in , during their moon time .
Though I have heard some woman talk of "moontime teachings", I've always wondered how much of these "moontime teachings" is really something traditional and how much is something some more modren women invented to make sense of traditions that seemed unfair, which they didn't understand . The reason I wonder this is because none of the older elders I have known , ever said anything about this , except in terms of what women should not do on their moontime , and they all seemed uncomfortable to say much at all . My guess is , though Native cultures are generally deeply respectful of women , this is a part of many aspects of the culture , not just the moontime . As far as I have seen , most Native people are modest about these things , and probably wouldn't be going around doing workshops on "moontime teachings" - especially if the actual practices of seclusion and exclusion that went with these traditions, are discarded as "impractical' .
That is one big thing I notice that happens when non native people start wanting to learn what they think is Native 'wisdom' . Non native people try and imitate this , by going for the ideas , the imaginary , but there is no basis in the real and the practical.
Sorry , but I think that is mostly about escapism .
Sorry if this reply is getting way off topic of John Colbert AKA Pushican AKA Lightning Bear. I thought of starting another thread but so much is being talked about in this one i am not sure what to call it ...
