NAFPS Forum
General => Research Needed => Topic started by: dabosijigwokush on September 18, 2009, 01:09:45 am
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http://www.myspace.com/aim-pa
The anonymous 36 year old male founder claims that he was given the authority to form an AIM chapter from someone called "Chink Whitekiller". (A Google search turns up nothing on him, and no one I know from decades in the movement has heard of him.)
[Al's note: Changed title of thread.]
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Just a couple of questions please. I am on dial up my space is a problem. Where is this happening location please. Autonomous Aim, or the National Aim. I will be speaking with an Aim Rep. Sat week on some other matters will be glad to check on this also. "LittleOldMan"
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Can't find any mention of this group except its own site. He seems to personally know a Sharen Garcia, and my guess is he's also recently learning about some of the issues.
Bee Neidlinger is an oldtime AIMster who lives in PA. She runs the yahoo group Ancient Native Heritage and might be able to help.
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Good Afternoon Relatives,
AIM PA has been in contact with us, before they started and when the got up and running two months ago- they have been working with us as a AIMChapter in PA- They are a small group eager to be taking on issues. My husband and I have spoken a few times to them and most recently about the "Hawk GoodFire" who is out in PA running Pow Wows in ZOOs and running sweats where women are being molested and harrassed during the ceremony. I hope this helps- thank you all for all you do.
Respectfully,
Corine Fairbanks
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sorry, I didn't put who this was from!
Corine Fairbanks
AIM SB
aimsb@ymail.com
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Hi Corine,
Thank you for that.
I am sure we will all wish the AIM PA Chapter well.
Piya
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I received an account that differs quite a bit from what we've seen posted so far.
Chinka Whitekiller used to run an autonomous AIM chapter with three other AIMsters. Whether he has the power to recognize chapters is unknown, and doubted by my source. CW is alleged to have a criminal record for arson and uses tactics like physical intimidation, destruction of property, and threats of violence against elders. The alleged arson record is definitely something that needs to be tracked down.
There are rumors that they worked with Gilles O'bomsawin. GO is associated with this group below.
http://www.aaanativearts.com/printout388.html
I'm not certain of their relationship, if any, with the St Francis group that have their own thread here already.
Again, I don't see any evidence so far this new chapter is itself doing any wrong. But the one who is supposed to have approved their chapter has questions about him, and unfortunately that may reflect upon the group.
It certainly does not reflect at all upon the causes endorsed by this group or the great majority of people who support them.
ETA: Chinka Whitekiller is also known as Chinka Buck.
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They have friended a bunch of us on MySpace. My impression, based on who all they've friended and the bulletins they've sent out, is that at least some of them are people we know from working on the White Ego Fraud (Rachel/Suraj Holzwarth) situation.
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I asked to be added as a friend and connect, being I am in Philadelphia. Thought it would be great to have someplace local to support Indian issues. I got a reply back. The person who answered is a member of the Southeastern Cherokee Council of Georgia.
http://www.secci.com/
They are supporting this petition:
http://www.petitiononline.com/runndn2/
http://blogs.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.view&friendId=498258675&blogId=509337807
I'm personally not real comfortable with them after finding this out.
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They have the Nanticoke-Lenape tribal symbol on the page as "tribes represented" but their "Nanticoke" member is not on the tribal rolls for that tribe.
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They have the Nanticoke-Lenape tribal symbol on the page as "tribes represented" but their "Nanticoke" member is not on the tribal rolls for that tribe.
Same thing with the Tribal seal of the CNO even though the guy who wrote to me is a member of Southeastern Cherokee Council of Georgia, one of the tribes on the CNO taskforce list of fakes.
Ironic all the talking about taking on wannabees and spiritual exploiters. This is an example of what the CNO taskforce talks about, people using their copyrighted material to make themselves look legitimate, and diluting and confusing what is really Cherokee.
:(
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still trying to find out who said he is peltiers son?
Gene "Thunderwolf" Also say he is head of free Leonard movement.
http://www.dailyitem.com/panews/images_sizedimage_209182641/resources_photoview
http://blogs.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.view&friendId=443979173&blogId=502719851
http://viewmorepics.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=viewImage&friendID=482688156&albumID=376193&imageID=1767758
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I know Leonard's daughter but they are all native
this guy is too light to be a son of leonard
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and another
http://www.myspace.com/lpdocpa
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They are supporting this petition:
http://www.petitiononline.com/runndn2/
http://blogs.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.view&friendId=498258675&blogId=509337807
I'm personally not real comfortable with them after finding this out.
They have been sending out lots of bulletins asking people to sign that petition, usually with subject headers like "Let's keep our traditions alive!!!!!!" .... Basically the same text as the blog post.
and another
http://www.myspace.com/lpdocpa
In another bulletin (http://bulletins.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=bulletin.read&authorID=498258675&messageID=6564829469&hash=MIG%2fBgorBgEEAYI3WAOzoIGwMIGtBgorBgEEAYI3WAMBoIGeMIGbAgMCAAECAmYDAgIAwAQIkhdhQ49gwvsEEPI2r%2fzIDsoyvYzmdb8T1MkEcJ%2b2vnehf5r9AsiQmasCWXa3oBHJKZCWHr42CODq6vmZgttCfqbW9Cqq9geA5RuWStftLeTTi65P3YT4CHHSbsOtGx%2bx9ZJZGOQ8eLQA1OjY4Pk1b2JG9QVTXRRxzJTes%2bk4SBwDMbAvoa3LnkZe8Fw%3d), they said this:
"A.I.M.-PA is autonomous,and although we are fighting sum of the same causes as the LPDOC-PA,we are not the same group.
"The Leonard Peltier support group of PA. is not A.I.M.-PA"
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The one Yahoo Group talks about "since we are not full bloods". I guess they know nothing about the CNO. ::)
http://dir.groups.yahoo.com/groups/SecciCircle/message/150
Love the eagle feather post!
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The one Yahoo Group talks about "since we are not full bloods". I guess they know nothing about the CNO. ::)
http://dir.groups.yahoo.com/groups/SecciCircle/message/150
Love the eagle feather post!
Need to send the Department of wildlife a link to that.
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It being a fact............
that not all Cherokees were enrolled, that thousands of Cherokees intermarried with other races, as well as other tribes, and chose to meld with white society long before the forced removal and these same Cherokee having children who in turn married Cherokee mixed bloods, thereby, perpetuating the Cherokee linage and, It being fact, not one Indian census or the US census is accurate up to and including 1990 and, It being fact that enrollment is closed in both the tribes of Cherokee, NC and Oklahoma and knowing there are hundreds of Cherokee mixed blood descendants desiring to belong and make a connection with their Cherokee roots, hence the incorporation of the S.E.C.C.I.
Everytime I turn around there's another Fake Cherokee Tribe to be seen! I got this from the SECCI site. I hear this kind of thing alot. Wannabees who always claim that they are discriminated againts becaue they are not full blood and light skin. hahahaha. Shows how much they know about Cherokees. CN enrollment is not closed. If you have a direct link to Dawes, then your entitiled to enrollment.
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They are supporting this petition:
http://www.petitiononline.com/runndn2/
http://blogs.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.view&friendId=498258675&blogId=509337807
I'm personally not real comfortable with them after finding this out.
They have been sending out lots of bulletins asking people to sign that petition, usually with subject headers like "Let's keep our traditions alive!!!!!!" .... Basically the same text as the blog post.
and another
http://www.myspace.com/lpdocpa
In another bulletin (http://bulletins.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=bulletin.read&authorID=498258675&messageID=6564829469&hash=MIG%2fBgorBgEEAYI3WAOzoIGwMIGtBgorBgEEAYI3WAMBoIGeMIGbAgMCAAECAmYDAgIAwAQIkhdhQ49gwvsEEPI2r%2fzIDsoyvYzmdb8T1MkEcJ%2b2vnehf5r9AsiQmasCWXa3oBHJKZCWHr42CODq6vmZgttCfqbW9Cqq9geA5RuWStftLeTTi65P3YT4CHHSbsOtGx%2bx9ZJZGOQ8eLQA1OjY4Pk1b2JG9QVTXRRxzJTes%2bk4SBwDMbAvoa3LnkZe8Fw%3d), they said this:
"A.I.M.-PA is autonomous,and although we are fighting sum of the same causes as the LPDOC-PA,we are not the same group.
"The Leonard Peltier support group of PA. is not A.I.M.-PA"
AIM PA may say they "are not the same group" as LPDOC-PA and technically that might be correct. They might not have all the same members; however, many of the members of the LPDOC Support Group in PA are also members of this new AIM Chapter. All the key players are members of both groups.
One thing I found interesting . . . They have very little support from other AIM Chapters. They have quite a bit of support from the various LPDOC SG's. Seems LPDOC is more familiar with them than AIM is.
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This thread should be part of is this group for real? Gene "Thunderwolf" is the "anonymous 36 year-old male" who heads up the new AIM Chapter in PA. He claims to be Cherokee and is enrolled with SECCI.
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This thread should be part of is this group for real? Gene "Thunderwolf" is the "anonymous 36 year-old male" who heads up the new AIM Chapter in PA. He claims to be Cherokee and is enrolled with SECCI.
I think this is a far more flattering picture of him. Don't you Bon?
http://www.facebook.com/mongoose.whisler
Bud in one hand, shooting the bird with the other. Another highly cultured and educated fellow.
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This thread should be part of is this group for real? Gene "Thunderwolf" is the "anonymous 36 year-old male" who heads up the new AIM Chapter in PA. He claims to be Cherokee and is enrolled with SECCI.
I think this is a far more flattering picture of him. Don't you Bon?
http://www.facebook.com/mongoose.whisler
Bud in one hand, shooting the bird with the other. Another highly cultured and educated fellow.
Don't know about flattering, but at least it's real. Definitely a different Thunderwolf than the one who drummed at the Peltier vigil back in July.
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just some more info .. .. and, i agree bls, this thread should be part of the already existing thread about "thunderwolf" AIM PA and LPDOC PA .. ..
gene "thunderwolf" - myspace page: http://www.myspace.com/resdog73
(wife) joy "blueflower - myspace page: http://www.myspace.com/joyblueflower
gene "thunderwolf" - his band - myspace page: http://www.myspace.com/theredcloudproject
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Ok i have been thinking about all these comments here for a while and this is the conclusion i have come up with.
1.i know Gene Thunderwolf,hes a very good person with a great heart,and if he wants to go to his family reunion and drink some beer once in a while,theres no harm in that,also.so he flipped the bird......so what! weve all done that,and if u look at the LPDOC-PA pictures u will see a pic of him flippin the bird at the fbi agents there along with 2 of the other members,so thats NOT a different Thunderwolf than was at the vigil on july 28th.
2.who are any of u 2 judge him just because he is open minded,free thinking,and happy being himself?
3.What difference does it make that Gene is mixblood? What difference would it make if he was chinese and russian,as long as his intentions are good?
4.if everyone here put as much support in this new group as they are hating them,we could reach more of our goals faster.
5.if the world ran on hatred instead of money pennsylvania would be the riches terrory in the world.
6.i know Joy as well and she would never mean any harm using the Nanticoke flag as her bloodline,she is a very good individual,and i think its rediculous that anyone would think otherwise.Her father is Nanticole and just because hes not registered doesnt mean hes not Nanticoke!does not mean shes not Nanticoke!! so all of u who think u r better tha her because
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probably because they are autonomous.
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6.i know Joy as well and she would never mean any harm using the Nanticoke flag as her bloodline,she is a very good individual,and i think its rediculous that anyone would think otherwise.Her father is Nanticole and just because hes not registered doesnt mean hes not Nanticoke!does not mean shes not Nanticoke!! so all of u who think u r better tha her because
That's not the Nanticoke Flag. That is the copyrighted logo of the Nanticoke Lenni-Lenape's 501c. Since she is not enrolled with them, nor did she have their council's approval she has no right to use it.
There is no Nanticoke flag. There are 3 seperate Nanticoke Tribes in New Jersey and Delaware and Nanticoke descendants among the Haude in Canada.
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American Indian Movement of Pennsylvania has now become Autonomous A.I.M. of PA. Negative comments about NAFPS and the discussion we're having here. We were called "close minded" and "egotistical". There's a "special shout out to TRAD DANCER" for her support.
Since Roy obviously wanted us all to know how he felt about this thread, I decided to copy his comments.
Oct 6 2009 6:58 AM
NAFPS FORUM.....from the back and forth rhetoric and unfounded allegations and much accumulated negativity,one can only assume as history has proven,that the NAFPS FORUM is comprised of mostly colonial mentality and european ideas,the sort of folks that took so much and imposed thier will on us in the first place,from me personaly to you NAFPS FORUM,...TAKE A HIKE AGITATORS,TAKE YOUR DISSENTION AND NEGATIVITY ELSEWHERE,obviously you folks aint skins or for any movement thats for people in a good way,bury your heads somewhere and think of your actions and remarks and ask creator to humble you some,perhaps then we can better get aquanted,ROY
http://www.myspace.com/aim-pa
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This group sounds like a fraud to me. I lived in PA for 20+ years and never heard of them. People take advantage of the fact that woth no state or federal tribes in the state almost everyone claims to be an Indian, black white or other. My question is what is this group doing, collecting funds on behalf of the legitimate AIM organisation, calling themselves a tribe like the SECC or trying to ge recognition as a tribe? What is apparent is that they are NOT Indians.
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American Indian Movement of Pennsylvania has now become Autonomous A.I.M. of PA. Negative comments about NAFPS and the discussion we're having here. We were called "close minded" and "egotistical". There's a "special shout out to TRAD DANCER" for her support.
Since Roy obviously wanted us all to know how he felt about this thread, I decided to copy his comments.
Oct 6 2009 6:58 AM
NAFPS FORUM.....from the back and forth rhetoric and unfounded allegations and much accumulated negativity,one can only assume as history has proven,that the NAFPS FORUM is comprised of mostly colonial mentality and european ideas,the sort of folks that took so much and imposed thier will on us in the first place,from me personaly to you NAFPS FORUM,...TAKE A HIKE AGITATORS,TAKE YOUR DISSENTION AND NEGATIVITY ELSEWHERE,obviously you folks aint skins or for any movement thats for people in a good way,bury your heads somewhere and think of your actions and remarks and ask creator to humble you some,perhaps then we can better get aquanted,ROY
http://www.myspace.com/aim-pa
They really should know what they're talking about before looking foolish. We have actual AIM members here at NAFPS, and we've worked with actual AIM chapters from the beginning, far longer than anyone at AIM PA. Plus many traditionalists, representatives of reserves, etc. How long have we been fighting the good fight? Literally 100 times longer than this chapter that's only been around for weeks...
The ironic thing is this thread is mostly dominated by concerns that the members of AIM PA are themselves being used, possibly being "approved" by someone who has no such power to approve their chapter.
But keep in mind these are mostly fairly young people, mostly well intentioned I think, but naive and unaware of how to do things the right way just yet. They're just starting to get their feet wet, and hopefully they'll mature enough to know the facts before shooting themselves in the foot again and smearing a group that does the same kind of work they hope to someday do.
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Ok i have been thinking about all these comments here for a while and this is the conclusion i have come up with.
1.i know Gene Thunderwolf,hes a very good person with a great heart,and if he wants to go to his family reunion and drink some beer once in a while,theres no harm in that,also.so he flipped the bird......so what! weve all done that,and if u look at the LPDOC-PA pictures u will see a pic of him flippin the bird at the fbi agents there along with 2 of the other members,so thats NOT a different Thunderwolf than was at the vigil on july 28th.
Actually, the can of Budweiser is the problem.
AIM's principals: Sovereignty, Solidarity, Spirituality, and Sobriety
2.who are any of u 2 judge him just because he is open minded,free thinking,and happy being himself?
Is he really "happy being himself"? Or does he wannabe someone else?
3.What difference does it make that Gene is mixblood? What difference would it make if he was chinese and russian,as long as his intentions are good?
I don't think anyone has a problem with Gene being "mixblood". I've got a problem with the SECCI. This group is on the Cherokee Task Force list of fraudulent tribes. I also have a problem with people who aren't honest about who they are.
4.if everyone here put as much support in this new group as they are hating them,we could reach more of our goals faster.
I don't think anyone here hates this "new group". However, it's a little difficult to support them when they disregard what the Nations say, belittle the importance of Tribal enrollment, ridicule the idea of blood quantum, and advocate the sale and/or ownership of illegal eagle feathers. I'm not so sure we have the same goals.
5.if the world ran on hatred instead of money pennsylvania would be the riches terrory in the world.
I grew up in Pennsylvania and still call it home; I've never found the people hateful. I know the state is full of wannabes and pretendians and that's a problem.
6.i know Joy as well and she would never mean any harm using the Nanticoke flag as her bloodline,she is a very good individual,and i think its rediculous that anyone would think otherwise.Her father is Nanticole and just because hes not registered doesnt mean hes not Nanticoke!does not mean shes not Nanticoke!! so all of u who think u r better tha her because
Piney already replied to this.
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Added to the AIM PA Myspace page today:
N.E. Autonomous A.I.M. 911 Peak Road Wheelock, Vermont 05851 Chinka Whitekiller, Director Phone: 802-626-5101 TO WHOM IT MAY CONCERN: Let it be known that Lancaster & Chester County A.A.I. M. (Post Office Box 94 , Pequea , Pennsylvania ) is a newly formed chapter of Autonomous A.I.M. It is required that each new chapter be sponsored by an existing chapter, with the advice and consent of other Autonomous chapters. Let it be known this day (October 7, 2009) that the Lancaster & Chester County chapter is sponsored by the Northeast Chapter of Autonomous American Indian Movement. Should there be any questions or further information needed, you should contact the sponsoring chapter, whose contact information is listed in the heading above. We hope that all people who come in contact with this Chapter treat them with the respect and appreciation befitting of A.I.M. members. Signed, Chinka Whitekiller, Director
http://www.myspace.com/aim-pa
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The whole purpose of a "support-protest" group is to get the attention of educated and influential people. Cursing, yelling, flipping the bird, promoting violence and generally acting foolish is counter-productive to what a group is trying to achieve. There is also the proven philosophy that "people who scream the loudest are the easiest to ignore".
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I fully agree with you, as I told you in the PM. We have the same thing happening here. Non aboriginals have convinced themselves that not only are they aboriginals but radical who should lead them. I have no doubt that is what the whole issue is with "Niiki" AKA Renz and TBE is about.
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still trying to find out who said he is peltiers son?
Gene "Thunderwolf" Also say he is head of free Leonard movement.
http://www.dailyitem.com/panews/images_sizedimage_209182641/resources_photoview
http://blogs.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.view&friendId=443979173&blogId=502719851
http://viewmorepics.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=viewImage&friendID=482688156&albumID=376193&imageID=1767758
I think I know how this story got started. Thunderwolf, as the head of the Leonard Peltier Support Group of PA, uses the name Leonard Peltier on their myspace instead of LPBSG PA or his own name, as the other Support Groups do. So, whenever he makes a comment or joins another group, it looks like Leonard Peltier is doing it.
Examples from http://www.myspace.com/lpdocpa
Sep 02
Leonard Peltier joined the groups Indigenous Live Chat Room and Saint Cloud American Indian Movement.
Aug 13
Leonard Peltier joined the group: Mafia Queen.
Since Peltier doesn't have access to a computer, some people may have thought this was his son. Instead, it's Thunderwolf misappropriating Leonard Peltier's identity.
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This speaks of all the aim groups that are out there that are frauds and using their tradematks. I also have an AIM in Santa Barbra, CA if you want that posted. It is so all over whelming of all that is going on all over the wordl concerning Native American Indians. ???
http://www.aimovement.org/index. html
http://aimblog2.blogspot.com/
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We need not give another recitation of past complaints nor engage in redundant dialogue of discontent. Our conditions and their cause for being should perhaps be best known by those who have written the record of America's action against Indian people. We seek a new American majority - a majority that is not content merely to confirm itself by superiority in numbers, but which by conscience is committed toward prevailing upon the public will in ceasing wrongs and in doing right. For our part, in words and deeds of coming days, we propose to produce a rational, reasoned manifesto for construction of an Indian future in America. If America has maintained faith with its original spirit, or may recognize it now, we should not be denied... Partial Preamble to the Trail of Broken Treaties Manifesto: October 31, 1972
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These individuals and groups are at this time being served with legal notice to cease and desist this activity, and their names and groups will be exposed, and published on our Website.
We are requesting that all AIM chapters, AIM support groups, related organizations currently, or those who will be utilizing our trademarked protected names and graphics in the future to write or email us letting us know who you are, your leadership structure, spokespersons, tribal enrollment, or show proof of lineal descent from an Indian nation (tribe), and other pertinent information. Those found to be sincere, honest and in good standing with the American Indian Movement Grand Governing Council, AIMGGC will have your affiliated AIM chapters, AIM support groups, and related organizations and/or your Websites published and linked to our website, aimovement.org.
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http://www.leonardpeltier.net
Email: info@leonardpeltier.net
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(4) <!--[endif]-->MARK: AMERICAN INDIAN MOVMENT & DESIGN, U.S. Registration No. 3,003,585
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Posted by American Indian Movement Grand Governing Council at 10:47 AM 3 comments
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I've wondered about the trademark violation, too, with this group and with other individuals pretending to be members of AIM. Somehow it ups your Indianness if you post an AIM logo on your website or myspace. At least some people think it does.
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"A.I.M.-PA is autonomous,and although we are fighting sum of the same causes as the LPDOC-PA,we are not the same group.
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The names and graphics displayed on our Website, AIMOVEMENT.ORG, our letterhead, publications and merchandise are the exclusive U.S. Patent & Trademark protected, spiritual, cultural, and intellectual property rights of the American Indian Movement. The American Indian Movement Grand Governing Council National Board of Directors are the registered owners and safe-keepers of said Marks.
These Marks as well others displayed on our Website are intended to be utilized only by American Indian Movement affiliated Chapters, AIM members, and AIM support groups and related organizations found to be in good standing with the American Indian Movement Grand Governing Council, AIMGGC.
The continued use of our Trademarked protected names and graphics by unscrupulous individuals and groups without the expressed consent of the American Indian Movement Grand Governing Council is strictly prohibited by law, and they will be the subjects of legal action under U.S. Patent and Trademark Laws and Statutes.
This pretty much says it all. I wonder who these other autonomous groups are???
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A.I.M.GCCC v/s Autonomous A.I.M........Whos the Big Shot? Whats the difference? Shouldnt we all be workin together? Why all the diversity? Does having a federally recognized card make you more of an Native? and copyright this,copyright that........our ancestors didnt stress copyrights or any other kinda government rule.
Yes the Autonomous AIM of Chester-Lancaster county is young,but they are learning and trying,which is more than i can say for the people in this thread here.Also,you can smash thier sponsor all you want but i know these guys and they wouldnt be doing this if they didnt have a legitamate person backing them.
So people in South Dakota never heard of them,that doesnt mean they dont exist.There are people here who never heard of A.I.M. divisions out west but thier out there and theyre legit,So take your heads out of your rears and give them a chance.
Trad Dancer
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A.I.M.GCCC v/s Autonomous A.I.M........Whos the Big Shot? Whats the difference? Shouldnt we all be workin together? Why all the diversity? Does having a federally recognized card make you more of an Native? and copyright this,copyright that........our ancestors didnt stress copyrights or any other kinda government rule.
Yes the Autonomous AIM of Chester-Lancaster county is young,but they are learning and trying,which is more than i can say for the people in this thread here.Also,you can smash thier sponsor all you want but i know these guys and they wouldnt be doing this if they didnt have a legitamate person backing them.
So people in South Dakota never heard of them,that doesnt mean they dont exist.There are people here who never heard of A.I.M. divisions out west but thier out there and theyre legit,So take your heads out of your rears and give them a chance.
Trad Dancer
Have you read the posts in this thread, all of them? Did you read Al's post? You might want to go back and read what's been said. You're making a fool of yourself and not doing a thing to help your buddies. Some here have worked with AIM for 30 + years; probably about as long as you've been alive. You've said that AIM-PA "is young, but they are learning and trying". The best way to learn is to open your eyes and ears and close your mouth.
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They've changed their name again. I understand adding Autonomous, but I wonder why the change from PA to Chester-Lancaster Co.
Original: American Indian Movement of Pennsylvania
Last Week: Autonomous A.I.M. of PA.
Current: Autonomous A.I.M. of Chester-Lancaster County
They've made their pictures & members (except for their Top 40) private. Wonder why the secrecy. However, you can still read their blogs.
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A.I.M.GCCC v/s Autonomous A.I.M........Whos the Big Shot? Whats the difference? Shouldnt we all be workin together? Why all the diversity? Does having a federally recognized card make you more of an Native? and copyright this,copyright that........our ancestors didnt stress copyrights or any other kinda government rule.
Yes the Autonomous AIM of Chester-Lancaster county is young,but they are learning and trying,which is more than i can say for the people in this thread here.Also,you can smash thier sponsor all you want but i know these guys and they wouldnt be doing this if they didnt have a legitamate person backing them.
So people in South Dakota never heard of them,that doesnt mean they dont exist.There are people here who never heard of A.I.M. divisions out west but thier out there and theyre legit,So take your heads out of your rears and give them a chance.
Trad Dancer
I curious to know why you have not applied to the A.I.M.GCCC to become a legit sattelite group? You can not present yourself as real A.I.M. by using their seal, which than misleads people as to who you realy are, anymore than than these supposed tribes can use the Cherokee Nation seal to mislead people to believe they are the real ETor CNO.
I am also curious as to what you have done so far for our people. What is the intent of your group???? Who is this legitimate person?
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Blame on me.... I only "read over" above (even less) and so far I got the 'question'.
Is it questionably (by any sense) to get Leonard free ??
If not... teach me ( in a SIMPLE way ! ) what it is, you spend your time for !! = thx
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Blame on me.... I only "read over" above (even less) and so far I got the 'question'.
Is it questionably (by any sense) to get Leonard free ??
If not... teach me ( in a SIMPLE way ! ) what it is, you spend your time for !! = thx
I'm not sure what you're saying/asking. Are you saying that getting Leonard out of prison is the goal, one we should all be working toward, and we should accept whatever support is given, no matter where it comes from? Are you asking why we question some of the people who support him? That's what it sounds like to me. Getting Leonard released from prison is important and anyone can work toward that goal. However, people need to be honest about who they are. They need to be respectful. This applies to life, not just this issue.
If that isn't what you were asking, please explain.
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Yes -- bls 926... I do ask for (the) goal...
I do ask for respect ( !! )
Yet... WHO AM I to question "whatever support is given" (will be given) ????????
I DO LIVE..... by my very best abilities...
and [plus] I've learned that it is'nt my job to JUDGE others (but request 'respect') --
I've learned to question "we" when it comes to make MY choice !!
I've learned to 'educate' myself about *issues* and 'doublecheck' if // how they fit....
yet 'affect' my very own life and beliefs !
In return: when you speak of "we"... who is it... OR who are you ?
I am honest and.. upon my best: I'm respectful and therefore IT applies to my -personal- life !!
So I guess.. I DID (asking) right ?!.... how about you ( heartguided - not mind-guided )
please...
{{{ to be on the save side = YES: no matter how..... Gfa Leonard deserve to be free !!!
and it's YOUR choice to claim that only restrictions WOULD lead towards this !
(if I got that right = congrats..... and joyful dreams to come !) }}}
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sorry (( grammar )) never sure [learned] when it is *did / does* ... etc...
be insightfully here (and with me ~ language-wise :) )
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... OMG
THIS should'nt be "dicussed" here.. right ?
;)
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Am wondering,if the autonomous american indian movement of lancaster/chester co.would contact the aim grand governing council for thier approval/review,wouldnt that be disrespectfull to thier original sponsor Mr,Whitekiller?This whole issue of grand governing council and autonomous ,why not just A.I.M. period like before,understand differences of opinion and personality clashes but isnt ones agenda the same as the others,obviously aim pa already has an approved sponsorship from one whom made all public info availible,why not a summitt or meeting between autonomous and grand gov.council on a national scale to bury the past and hash out the differences and combine as one group again,mending the original split,imagine the voice that could be heard and the energies created then,has this ever been attempted before,if not im wondering why,whats the barrier,thanks all for your time in this review
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What kind of man gives his children names like Timberwolf, Golden Hawk, and Dancing Butterfly? And refers to them as "The Little Savages"?
http://viewmorepics.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewPicture&friendID=101683494&albumId=732832&page=1
Edit to add: I guess the same kind of man who would post this on another myspace:
Autonomous A.I.m. is sharpening the arrowheads!
Mood: Fry bread power!
http://www.myspace.com/aim-pa
This group expects to be taken seriously??
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1. I have to agree with Red Thunder,enough said!
2.I think it was said best when the question was,"Should things be discussed here?" especially when you are talking about someones kids and thier names,and for the record I know Gene,and his kids were name by a Cherokee not him,and furthermore thats none of anyones business here,Genes actions should not reflect on his kids.
3.bls,or whoever,i dont feel that my opinions are reflecting negativity on Autonomous AIM of Lancaster county,your opinions on that are "premature" for lack of a better word.
4.Whatever Autonomous AIM changes thier name to,its no concern of yours,they are legit,no matter how you look at it.
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I'd like to ask for a final round of opinions on this thread. Should it be moved to Archives and marked Resolved No Longer a Matter of Concern?
As I noted earlier, the main concern from the beginning was over whether this chapter had in fact been authorized by someone who had the power to authorize it. That seems to be resolved.
There are some others concerns over individual behavior within the chapter (see the Hawk Goodfire thread as well), but nothing that comes anywhere close to being fraud or not being a legit chapter.
Also, the questions over someone alleging to be Peltier's son may be a different matter. Perhaps that should be given a separate thread yet again. Opinions?
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I really don't think anyone is claiming to be Leonard Peltier's son. Think it's just the way Whisler has their LPDOC myspace set up. He might want to change that, to save confusion in the future.
Refer to the post I made on October 9th.
still trying to find out who said he is peltiers son?
Gene "Thunderwolf" Also say he is head of free Leonard movement.
http://www.dailyitem.com/panews/images_sizedimage_209182641/resources_photoview
http://blogs.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.view&friendId=443979173&blogId=502719851
http://viewmorepics.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=viewImage&friendID=482688156&albumID=376193&imageID=1767758
I think I know how this story got started. Thunderwolf, as the head of the Leonard Peltier Support Group of PA, uses the name Leonard Peltier on their myspace instead of LPBSG PA or his own name, as the other Support Groups do. So, whenever he makes a comment or joins another group, it looks like Leonard Peltier is doing it.
Examples from http://www.myspace.com/lpdocpa
Sep 02
Leonard Peltier joined the groups Indigenous Live Chat Room and Saint Cloud American Indian Movement.
Aug 13
Leonard Peltier joined the group: Mafia Queen.
Since Peltier doesn't have access to a computer, some people may have thought this was his son. Instead, it's Thunderwolf misappropriating Leonard Peltier's identity.
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1. I have to agree with Red Thunder,enough said!
2.I think it was said best when the question was,"Should things be discussed here?" especially when you are talking about someones kids and thier names,and for the record I know Gene,and his kids were name by a Cherokee not him,and furthermore thats none of anyones business here,Genes actions should not reflect on his kids.
3.bls,or whoever,i dont feel that my opinions are reflecting negativity on Autonomous AIM of Lancaster county,your opinions on that are "premature" for lack of a better word.
4.Whatever Autonomous AIM changes thier name to,its no concern of yours,they are legit,no matter how you look at it.
It really wasn't the names Whisler gave his children, although they do scream bliss bunny. It was his calling them "The Little Savages". What kind of man refers to his children as savages?
Then there was the comment about "sharpening the arrowheads". What a stereotype.
There's more, but I'm not going to post it. Anyone who has gone to their myspaces has seen for themselves.
Too much pan-Indian, twinkie, bliss bunny garbage. Indians have serious problems. No one needs an AIM chapter who is all fluff.
Trad Dancer, it's not your opinions I have a problem with; it's your attitude. The last time I saw someone here on NAFPS criticizing what we were doing, condemning us for being hateful, they were a wannabe with a whole lot to hide. Come to think of it . . . Every time someone spouts off like you did with that much disrespect, they're trying to deflect. I'm surprised you haven't used the old worn-out "you don't act like any Indians I know" or "this isn't the Native way".
Why do I care what this AIM chapter is calling themselves? I spent half my life in Pennsylvania and still call it home. I have family in both counties.
Edit to add: There's also the problem of their affiliation with a group determined to be fraudulent by the Cherokee Task Force, SECCI. I don't know if the Task Force should have the last word in who is or isn't Cherokee, but I value their opinion.
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I agree its time to close the thread as its been posted regarding support of aim-pa,also,the issue of peltiers son was simply somebodies misinterpritation and clearly disputed by "Gene".further,opinions are one thing but regarding a mans personal business as to his children is not our concern,none of us would like another instigating the same nor should one ad words and stretch out of context somebodies words or comments which seems to have occured often upon this thread,obviously this man right ,wrong or indifferent meant to be humourous and am frankly,surprised how much of an issue some try to make this as well as insulting anothers elders stating twinkie this and that,close the thread and move onto legitimate issues like saving the wolves,buffalo field campagn,or gravesite desecration,to much time indulging in hearsay and meaningless rhetoric.....contructive and positiveness in all things should be strived for,its possible to agree to disagree....atain this and youll be a happier person.......,Mitakuye Oyasin!
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Mitakuye Oyasin!
Ooooh lord.....The cry of the wannabe.
Hey, if you guys are hooking up with Chinka. Take the advice I posted. Support causes in a civilized manner. Don't act like vulgar animals, and don't get "militant". There's something known as "Homeland Security" now, and you'll do more harm to the causes your trying to help.
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[Al's note- Childish comment and personal attack removed. Consider yourself warned.]
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[Al's note- Childish comment and personal attack removed. Consider yourself warned.]
Oh darn, Al! I was fixing to reply to that. Something along the lines of life is more than powwows and frybread, beads and feathers, braids and shades. lol
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[Spam removed] nothing better to do than promote the same discrimination and elite status quo that so many others work to abolish among society,personaly believe these folks should step back and evaluate themselves and cease these outward reflections of themselves and open their hearts and minds to a happier life,p.c.commandos that are content in their little.safe corners and eager to degrade others,i feel empathy for your ignorance and lack of understanding what it is to be a true human being,regardless of race or beliefs,to insult the phrase of WE ARE ALL RELATED an state this to be the cry of wannabes is downright frivilous and without any merit,you all should be ashamed of yourselves for such things,know many legit sundancers who cry this aloud as they suffer for the people,best i can do at this point is to pray [Insult removed],perhaps you should read some fools crow and his words or pete catches on these matters,doubt it will have much affect upon your little click but prefer to think positive,try a random act of kindness today and start a new begining,your attitudes and demeanor are directing you towards a downward spiral,[Insult removed] and am of the opinion this NAFPS site and majority of its commentators are a reincarnation of the same ole B.I.A.and their drama and tactics,consider me outta here,[Insult removed]...............Tunkasila knows your heart and thoughts,consider yourself warned!!!
[Al's note- Since s/he wants to be removed, we're happy to oblige.]
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Quoting all this because obviously someone overlooked it.
Pay special attention to what Al said.
American Indian Movement of Pennsylvania has now become Autonomous A.I.M. of PA. Negative comments about NAFPS and the discussion we're having here. We were called "close minded" and "egotistical". There's a "special shout out to TRAD DANCER" for her support.
Since Roy obviously wanted us all to know how he felt about this thread, I decided to copy his comments.
Oct 6 2009 6:58 AM
NAFPS FORUM.....from the back and forth rhetoric and unfounded allegations and much accumulated negativity,one can only assume as history has proven,that the NAFPS FORUM is comprised of mostly colonial mentality and european ideas,the sort of folks that took so much and imposed thier will on us in the first place,from me personaly to you NAFPS FORUM,...TAKE A HIKE AGITATORS,TAKE YOUR DISSENTION AND NEGATIVITY ELSEWHERE,obviously you folks aint skins or for any movement thats for people in a good way,bury your heads somewhere and think of your actions and remarks and ask creator to humble you some,perhaps then we can better get aquanted,ROY
http://www.myspace.com/aim-pa
They really should know what they're talking about before looking foolish. We have actual AIM members here at NAFPS, and we've worked with actual AIM chapters from the beginning, far longer than anyone at AIM PA. Plus many traditionalists, representatives of reserves, etc. How long have we been fighting the good fight? Literally 100 times longer than this chapter that's only been around for weeks...
The ironic thing is this thread is mostly dominated by concerns that the members of AIM PA are themselves being used, possibly being "approved" by someone who has no such power to approve their chapter.
But keep in mind these are mostly fairly young people, mostly well intentioned I think, but naive and unaware of how to do things the right way just yet. They're just starting to get their feet wet, and hopefully they'll mature enough to know the facts before shooting themselves in the foot again and smearing a group that does the same kind of work they hope to someday do.
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I personally think whats going on here is that first everyone doubted AIM Pa,it gave everyone something to gossip about and it worked for a while but then when you found out they were legit,you looked like a bunch of idiots. So out of desperation to try and make yourselves look good again you decided to pick at Gene,Who i think we all can agree that besides the fact that he humorously and jokingly calls his kids "Little savages" is a respectable goodhearted guy.
So enclosing i must wonder who is the better people AIM or the people on this thread,you dont hear of AIM attacking anyones children and family,which isnt a smart thing to do,which shows the intellegnce level of everyone here besides Red Thunder and Corrine,they showed more intellegence and maturity here.One has to wonder,if they didnt know any of us and after looking at this thread,would have to wonder how can so many people trying to smash one guy,who they know nothing about,make themselves look so damn stupid and think that they are more intellegent that a simple..........Rodent.
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Greetings.
I am new here, but I follow this topic for a while. And, to be honest, it was quiet amusing to read all this.
First of all I have to admit that I know these people from A.I.M. PA. Well, not very close, but good enough.
Roy Robertson aka Redthunder 1891 aka The Real Crazy Horse.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8j6q0KN4noU&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZY4q2Z7W3Vk
http://www.youtube.com/user/crazyhorse1891 (http://www.youtube.com/user/crazyhorse1891)
http://www.myspace.com/wanbligleska67
That means, you had a conversation with the head man of "A.I.M. PA", not very surprising that he talked nice about this group.
Roy claims to be Lakotha, but his ancestry is more on the "italien" side. He is not a skin. His only connection to what he calls Oyate are some of his friends.
There is not one skin in this "group", but therefor white people playing Indian. They feel very empowered with this A.I.M. title, but as a Grandfather of mine said, they act like a bunch of Boy Scouts going wild.
This group is a disgrace for the real A.I.M. and what it is all about, as well as for the native People here in this part of the country.
Best regards
Wacipi
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Greetings.
I am new here, but I follow this topic for a while. And, to be honest, it was quiet amusing to read all this.
First of all I have to admit that I know these people from A.I.M. PA. Well, not very close, but good enough.
Roy Robertson aka Redthunder 1891 aka The Real Crazy Horse.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8j6q0KN4noU&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZY4q2Z7W3Vk
http://www.youtube.com/user/crazyhorse1891 (http://www.youtube.com/user/crazyhorse1891)
http://www.myspace.com/wanbligleska67
That means, you had a conversation with the head man of "A.I.M. PA", not very surprising that he talked nice about this group.
Roy claims to be Lakotha, but his ancestry is more on the "italien" side. He is not a skin. His only connection to what he calls Oyate are some of his friends.
There is not one skin in this "group", but therefor white people playing Indian. They feel very empowered with this A.I.M. title, but as a Grandfather of mine said, they act like a bunch of Boy Scouts going wild.
This group is a disgrace for the real A.I.M. and what it is all about, as well as for the native People here in this part of the country.
Best regards
Wacipi
That's been my impression, but I'm just a lowly PODIA ;D, so my opinion don't count for much. ;D
I won't be supporting them, though. IMHO, my energy is best spent elswhere.
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I personally think whats going on here is that first everyone doubted AIM Pa,it gave everyone something to gossip about and it worked for a while but then when you found out they were legit,you looked like a bunch of idiots. So out of desperation to try and make yourselves look good again you decided to pick at Gene,Who i think we all can agree that besides the fact that he humorously and jokingly calls his kids "Little savages" is a respectable goodhearted guy.
So enclosing i must wonder who is the better people AIM or the people on this thread,you dont hear of AIM attacking anyones children and family,which isnt a smart thing to do,which shows the intellegnce level of everyone here besides Red Thunder and Corrine,they showed more intellegence and maturity here.One has to wonder,if they didnt know any of us and after looking at this thread,would have to wonder how can so many people trying to smash one guy,who they know nothing about,make themselves look so damn stupid and think that they are more intellegent that a simple..........Rodent.
I'm sitting here shaking my head. Y'all really don't get it. This isn't about making ourselves look good or anyone else look bad.
No one is picking at Gene. No one has attacked Gene's children or his family. Just making observations. There is nothing humorous about someone calling their kids "little savages". What is funny about that? Do you think the University of Illinois should reinstate Chief Illiniwek? Should the University of North Dakota keep the Fighting Sioux? And what about that professional football team in Washington DC? You don't see a problem with the Redskins? After hundreds of years of racism, you think it's humorous to refer to your children as "little savages"? I question his insensitivity. If you think it's something to joke about, I question yours. Where is you brain? Where is your heart?
How can someone so unaware of the real-life issues facing Indians, be a member of AIM? There is more to being part of the American Indian Movement than braids and shades. There's more to life than powwows and frybread. Indians have serious problems. No one needs an AIM chapter who is all fluff.
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I personally think whats going on here is that first everyone doubted AIM Pa,it gave everyone something to gossip about and it worked for a while but then when you found out they were legit,you looked like a bunch of idiots. So out of desperation to try and make yourselves look good again you decided to pick at Gene,Who i think we all can agree that besides the fact that he humorously and jokingly calls his kids "Little savages" is a respectable goodhearted guy.
So enclosing i must wonder who is the better people AIM or the people on this thread,you dont hear of AIM attacking anyones children and family,which isnt a smart thing to do,which shows the intellegnce level of everyone here besides Red Thunder and Corrine,they showed more intellegence and maturity here.One has to wonder,if they didnt know any of us and after looking at this thread,would have to wonder how can so many people trying to smash one guy,who they know nothing about,make themselves look so damn stupid and think that they are more intellegent that a simple..........Rodent.
Try learning to actually read before making yourself look foolish repeatedly. You keep shooting the whole chapter and all of your friends in the foot with that shotgun that doubles for your mouth.
This thread started off with concern some young kids might be getting used by being made into a chapter by someone without that right. That issue is done. Then you and Roy/Redthunder had to throw fits again and because of that, other concerns have been raised. Good going, smart guys....
Some day if you learn to pick your targets you might be able to do some good for NDNs. Until then, I hope you learn from the example of a real AIMster who just tried to help you several posts back, Sky Davis, a longtime NAFPS member.
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Again,and i obviously have to keep repeating myself,cuz apparently its not getting thru to everyone here,whos still talking about this......The question was,Aim-pa,are these guys for real?
The answer has been given,yes they are legit,why is everyone dwelling on this,move on! grow up! Stop wasting everyones time!
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Again,and i obviously have to keep repeating myself,cuz apparently its not getting thru to everyone here,whos still talking about this......The question was,Aim-pa,are these guys for real?
The answer has been given,yes they are legit,why is everyone dwelling on this,move on! grow up! Stop wasting everyones time!
Trad Dancer, are you ignoring everything that's been said here? Obviously, you are. While it has been determined (at least by some) that Chinka Whitekiller had the authority/ability/right to authorize an AIM chapter in Pennsylvania, nowhere in this thread has it been established that any of y'all are legit. Seems like there's a whole lot of questions. And, as Al said, the more you and Roy keep running your mouths, the more questions arise. I question your sincerity. Some question your methods, your rationale, the things y'all say and do. Some are questioning whether y'all are even Indian. This matter is far from closed.
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Again,and i obviously have to keep repeating myself,cuz apparently its not getting thru to everyone here,whos still talking about this......The question was,Aim-pa,are these guys for real?
The answer has been given,yes they are legit,why is everyone dwelling on this,move on! grow up! Stop wasting everyones time!
Are you aware that calling an NDN person a "savage" is no different in the eyes of many then calling a black person the N word, or calling some other ethnic group some seriously offensive name?
Now it is true that some people will engage in this behavior, or are not against words like Redskin, and fully support it being used for sports teams. However these people are usually in the minority. Plus those who say such words, do so tongue in cheek as jokes, but typically those who I see make such jokes are often close to full blooded people and nobody would really see them stereo typing NDN's in a bad light.
Now when I do see somebody use such words and they are claiming to be "Mixed blood" or the whole "part Indian" schtick; often times they are not saying such things tongue in cheek as a joke, but say so with a more stereo typical attitude that borders on racism and ignornace. For example I know a guy who claims the whole "part Cherokee" thing, and blames his bad drinking habits on a claim to NDN blood he has no proof of, and while he has no connection to any NDN community.
So a person of light skin should seriously think twice about calling their children "savages," especially when they are claiming to be AIM and are supposed to be doing battle against such things being used.
In my opinion such things as Redskins, Savages, etc do harm to NDN people, and especially our children. I have friends that live on reservations such as Spirit Lake, and I swear I would have to comfort them on a nearly weekly basis when they cried over hearing another young person had committed suicide. Such things play heavy on my mind every day.
If you are legitimate as you claim to be, then I would seriously think you would get informed, and refrain from using words like "savages" on your own children while claiming to be supporting and fighting for NDN children and NDN people in general. *edit to add here* That I feel mascots and words like savages and things of that nature play a part in teen suicide amongst NDN children because such things are factors in breaking down feelings of self worth and add to general feelings of despair.
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Here we go again,u guys are all nothing but a broken record,saying the same things over and over,even saying alot of things in a European sense,German? maybe?
Makes me wonder how many people here are twinkies.
As an example,Roy is not a member of the Lakotha tribe, as far as i know i never heard of the Lakotha people,which is a word that has been mispelled quite a few times,but no disrespect there huh?And its clear that some people here need english language spelling lessons,as well.
Also,as far as AIM not being "Skins",4 of them are full bloods,2 are "Halfbloods" so i dont know where you all get your information but you should probably consider new sources,Wacipi,or whatever your name is,i dont think you know or know of these guys like you say you do.
This Autonomous AIM chapter is sponsored by Chinka Whitekiller,who is legit,hence they are legit.Thats the end of the conversation,whether you like it or not,I will pray for all of you people here who are sceptic of this,as you do need it.
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Here we go again,u guys are all nothing but a broken record,saying the same things over and over,even saying alot of things in a European sense,German? maybe?
Makes me wonder how many people here are twinkies.
You really need to start reading what we've written. Not just read it, but try to understand what we're saying. European sense? German? Twinkies? Yeah, right.
As an example,Roy is not a member of the Lakotha tribe, as far as i know i never heard of the Lakotha people,which is a word that has been mispelled quite a few times,but no disrespect there huh?And its clear that some people here need english language spelling lessons,as well.
Wacipi misspelled Lakota; he misspelled Italian, too. Not a big deal. We knew what he meant. We need spelling lessons? If I were you, I wouldn't throw stones.
Also,as far as AIM not being "Skins",4 of them are full bloods,2 are "Halfbloods" so i dont know where you all get your information but you should probably consider new sources,Wacipi,or whatever your name is,i dont think you know or know of these guys like you say you do.
Four full-bloods and two half-bloods? You may be able to convince the people at Allentown, Muddy Run, or Indian Steps, but then maybe not. I don't believe it. You forget some of us know people in Chester and Lancaster County. Don't make claims you can't back up. You know, it really isn't that important whether y'all are full-blood or little-to-none-at-all. What's important is being honest about it.
This Autonomous AIM chapter is sponsored by Chinka Whitekiller,who is legit,hence they are legit.Thats the end of the conversation,whether you like it or not,I will pray for all of you people here who are sceptic of this,as you do need it.
Talk about a eurocentric attitude. You're right and we're wrong; therefore, the conversation is ended.
You still don't get it. There is so much more to being a member of the American Indian Movement than braids and shades.
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Hi there.
I have to apologize first. I was in here as Wacipi and tried to change my e-mail information. Somehow I made a mistake and never got the confirmation message, because the E-mail address is not valid (of course not with a spelling mistake). I tried, but couldn't get back in anymore. So I had to come back with another nick. Well, here I am.
First, the comment from Rattlebone brings it to the point. Thanks Rattlebone. He took the words out of my mouth, just better. My concern too is, how will someone like that know, what needs the Native Community has? How will someone like that understand what we are about? How will they represent us, when they don't know us, our ways, our feelings, our needs. How could you ever think, savage is a funny word. I can remember back what riot it was when TV came up with Tonto. But this was about TV, savage is about reality and history, death and blood. It is about "Only a dead Indian is a good Indian". Will you really take someone for real and serious in "efforts" for AIM and with that for our People? Will you really support people like that, feeding the wrong wolf? For me, I am sorry, these people are totally unacceptable.
I have to ask even more. What became of AIM? They tolerate groups like that, using the name AIM and what it stands for, for... what? Personal empowerment? Tolerating groups like Whitekiller's as legit? Why is nobody reacting on all that? Not reacting on this is acting against the people, because we tolerate with that a attack on our ways, let them make a choke out of it. Autonomous or not, they still use A.I.M. and their logos. Set a sign.
Now a word to Trad Dancer. I know these people well my friend. Years back we were used to be friends. Roy himself told me about his italien ancestry. He asked Gene how he managed it to get a card, because he badly want one. What he didn't know is, that Gene's card is from a twinky Tribe. They already fooled me years back with that non sense and I believed 'em. Well, at the beginning. Is not Ringo Roy's Lakota buddy and is not Vicky his girlfriend in the moment? Doesn't Roy drive a Chevy Van now and Gene a green Mountaineer? Who da heck shall be the Full Bloods? Not Roy for sure as well not Gene. Who is left? Dan? He claims to be adopted from a family in Pine Ridge, which is not lie. I can proof that too if neccessary. He is pure white if I may say so. Who else? Dan, Gene's buddy? A white guy who found out recently that he has NDN ancestry (lol). Come on, give us a break. You know and I know that these guys are far away from what they claim to be. With that they are unacceptable to run a AIM Chapter. Don't you think?
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I apologize for spelling mistakes. Mea culpa. Well, I was not fortune enough to get a good education, I had to support my family. So sometimes I just write it as I feel it is right. But I can speak my mothers tongue, my native language fluently. Can you too? The value of your education always depends on where you live. Where I come from "your" education was good for nothing. We were busy to survive.
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Little spell check on yours Trad Dancer:
Re: Is this group for real? AIM PA, Leonard Peltier's son
« Reply #60 on: October 19, 2009, 07:28:50 PM » Quote
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I personally think whats going on here is that first everyone doubted AIM Pa,it gave everyone something to gossip about and it worked for a while but then when you found out they were legit,you looked like a bunch of idiots. So out of desperation to try and make yourselves look good again you decided to pick at Gene,Who i think we all can agree that besides the fact that he humorously and jokingly calls his kids "Little savages" is a respectable goodhearted guy.
So enclosing i must wonder who is the better people AIM or the people on this thread,you dont hear of AIM attacking anyones children and family,which isnt a smart thing to do,which shows the intellegnce level of everyone here besides Red Thunder and Corrine,they showed more intellegence and maturity here.One has to wonder,if they didnt know any of us and after looking at this thread,would have to wonder how can so many people trying to smash one guy,who they know nothing about,make themselves look so damn stupid and think that they are more intellegent that a simple..........Rodent.
You need more?
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I apologize for spelling mistakes. Mea culpa. Well, I was not fortune enough to get a good education, I had to support my family. So sometimes I just write it as I feel it is right. But I can speak my mothers tongue, my native language fluently. Can you too? The value of your education always depends on where you live. Where I come from "your" education was good for nothing. We were busy to survive.
Don't worry about your spelling mistakes; we all knew exactly what you were saying. With all the misspelled words in Trad Dancer's posts, she's the last person who should be criticizing anyone's spelling. She's got that superiority thing going on; thinks she's right and we're all wrong.
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Hollow bone,
When i said full and half blood earlier a wasnt talkin about Roy,Gene,or those two Dan guys you were talkin about,they have recruited and gotten new members.
As for the spelling thing,you were compairing apples to oranges,Those words Lakotha and Italein were just misspelled as the ones you highlighted were just run together,but ok.
I think instead of us all wasting our time arguing about all this,maybe we should be workin together.Our time would be better spent by that.
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Hollow bone,
When i said full and half blood earlier a wasnt talkin about Roy,Gene,or those two Dan guys you were talkin about,they have recruited and gotten new members.
As for the spelling thing,you were compairing apples to oranges,Those words Lakotha and Italein were just misspelled as the ones you highlighted were just run together,but ok.
I think instead of us all wasting our time arguing about all this,maybe we should be workin together.Our time would be better spent by that.
So are we supposed to believe that the pretendians went and recruited real Indians? Somehow I doubt it.
I'm sorry, you may mean well, but I just cannot see this group as credible. Perhaps over time you will prove yourselves, so far you've not done so, for me anyway.
Edited to apologize for that snarky first sentence. I'm leaving it though, because it feels dishonest to edit it out. I wrote it, I'll own it.
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I'm sorry to butt in here, as I really know nothing at all about AIM. But I do know intelligence is spelled with an i.
Trad, you insulted a group of people, perhaps not intentionally at first, but then went on to defend it. Then when it was explained clearly why it is insulting, you completely ignored it and instead focused on HollowBone's spelling. Even now, you completely ignore what was said, and post again in regards to .. spelling? Come on. Get real. Who cares if a word is misspelled, it doesn't matter, it makes no difference. The messages came through very clear regardless of any words misspelled..
And yet.. look what you have done Trad.. here I sit, writing a paragraph on the importance of spelling? Again I will state .. you have completely not seen what is clear, but distract from the issue by picking on someone's spelling.
Please know there are people like myself, who read these forums, perhaps not fully aware of all the issues but learning, and sometimes, sitting a little outside the circle one has a more objective view.
And what I am seeing is B.S. on your part. And I find it insulting. Spelling.. LOL right. Get a grip, read what has been written and stop fussing about and distracting the attention of the real issues. All you're really doing is 'adding' insult to insult.
And I apologize for adding to the distraction, or taking away from the 'real' issue here.. I just wanted to speak up.
Thank you.
Edited to add: Trad just really pissed me off on this. HollowBone's messages were very good and that you come here and try to take them down because of some words spelling just really makes me mad. If that's the way you judge and treat people, then I can have no respect for you.
And if this AIM chapter is some group in support of ndn ways, well, I'd think twice about having THAT kind of reflection on it. Seriously, I may not know exactly what AIM is, but I can tell you all, that if I.. being without knowledge.. met some group reportedly supporting ndn ways and was treated with that kind of BS I would form a very negative opinion about AIM.. so you should be careful on who you have representing you.. and I think that is what this thread is about. And that's my 2cents even if I don't have the right to vote, I can voice my opinion. Up until this whole 'spelling' thing.. I really didn't know what to think...
Sorry, I'm rambling.. but I'm MAD.. how dare he insult someone based on 'spelling' and not even address the message which was clear as could be?? And he is part of a group 'representing' NDN's? I wouldn't want him representing ANY part of me in ANY way!!
Edited for one last thing... as someone who has come to suicide more than once in my life time, that you, Trad, would follow a post that speaks of such a thing with some tripped up nonsense pointing out spelling errors? Talk about a side stepping of the issues...
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Definition for autonomous
- self-governing: politically independent and self-governing
- able to choose: able to make decisions and act on them as a free and independent moral agent
- self-sufficient: existing, reacting, or developing as an independent, self-regulating organism
Encarta World English Dictionary
other wise not following or adleast adhearing to the guide lines and beliefs of the first AIM
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First of all, thanks for the support regarding typos and wrong spelling. And yes, this shouldn't be the issue here.
Trad Dancer, you don't answer questions in general? You ignored all I said. I do agree with many in here, you didn't get the point yet. I will give you an example you may understand. I do not know your life experiences, but do you know the feeling being different, a human being 3rd class? Do you know how it feels to be discriminated? Do you know how it feels to see your loved ones suffering? To be short on food, on heat in winter, on everything. No support from official side, no chance to get a job? Can you imagine how it feels to get insulted everywhere you go, to get spit on? You leave with your family in hope for the better and what happens? Your little daughter is afraid to go to school and gets real sick if she has to, because the other kids are picking on her, beating her up and so on. Can you imagine how it feels to hear people calling your wife and family bad names just out of the blue? All what is left is your way, your traditional way, your teachings and beliefs. And that makes you proud again.
Now Trad Dancer, can you imagine, that people like me don't want any white guys who represent us? Not even Mixed Bloods. Why? If you never lived that kind of life, you don't know anything about it, about the need of Native People. If you never walked in our shoes, how can you ever think you can represent us? These experiences you can't learn from the computer or out of a book. Our People live NDN, these guys only play NDN. They don't know what they are talking about. Coming again to the educational part. Where I come from, at least in the time I grew up, education was not available. We were busy to survive, to make it from one day to the other. No Mom and Dad who paid for everything. But we never lost our pride. And now we shall allowe people who have no climbs what they are talking about, to take that away from us while they play NDN? The point is, white or mixed blood, they can NOT speak for us, because they know nothing about our life. But on the other hand they claim to act and speak in our interest. What a joke.
You said, they have now new guys there. Well, the head and leaders of that group didn't change, right? Still a fake NDN group, just with more players. Weekend Indians who live a normal white men's life over the week. I couldn't choose what I am, I stuck with it, with all bad and good. I have to live every day the life I got, no matter what. And I am grateful to Great Spirit for what I am. Now do you tell me they may choose to live my life? Well, the nicer part of it, from the other part they have no idea.
We shall stop this and work together? On what? Let us hear your proposal please.
Thanks for the definition for autonomous.
Definition for autonomous
- self-governing: politically independent and self-governing
- able to choose: able to make decisions and act on them as a free and independent moral agent
- self-sufficient: existing, reacting, or developing as an independent, self-regulating organism
Encarta World English Dictionary
other wise not following or adleast adhearing to the guide lines and beliefs of the first AIM
First AIM? How many do we have? Sorry, I think I have there a lack of education too. Anyhow, regardles how you name the game, they still use the name AIM and their logos. With that they make believe they are part of what we know as AIM. Which is a misrepresentation of what you call first AIM and what it stands for and what people believed in. These guys have a nice ride on the back of Leonhard, Banks and others, who made a commitment for the People.
All that nice talking about this group and their leaders is a slap in the face of all true Native people. I disagree with Trad Dancer, this shouldn't be over at all. I don't get it. NDN's are so worried about mascots and all that other twinky, wannabe, New Age frauds, but here we do have something even worse. A group of NDN's by heart (?) or what ever, who deceitfully claim to speak in our names. How much worse can it get. send 'em on the Rez for the rest of their life, may be they'll get an idea what we are talking about.
Last but not least a special recognition of Critter. Good and strong words, a man with common sense and a clear mind.
Truth does not need many words or "big" words. Truth speaks in it's own words, simple and understandable.
In my life I learned one thing. Stay with your people, fight for your people. They are the only one's who are with you. I can not and will not accept, tolorate or support a group like that, lead from Non-NDNs.
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Just to make the picture clear.
We had already the links to Gene Thunderwolf's and Roy Robertson's page/s. I found now the two other guys too.
Here is the wannabe Lakota Danny: http://www.myspace.com/danr74
and Dan, Gene's buddy: http://www.myspace.com/phoenixstyx
as white as possible.
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Last but not least a special recognition of Critter. Good and strong words, a man with common sense and a clear mind.
Thanks, want to inform that I am a woman :) I know it's hard to know that with my user name. Sometimes, I just get really PO'd and have to speak my mind about it.
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Like it or not the PA chapter is legitimate, they have been sanctioned in accordance to Autonomous' guidelines. If you are concerned, contact Chinka and Bob Roche, and explain your concerns to them. I did, they listened, explained their position, didn't threaten, intimidate or act like jerks. To be fair, if you support them, do the same.
It worries me that this thread is going to turn into a National vs Autonomous debate. While my involvement was with National, I have assisted and asked the assistance of Autonomous members in certain specific instances. Both sides have made mistakes, neither side is perfect. Both have what they feel are legitimate reasons that they stand by when it comes to membership and the formation of chapters. I prefer National's stand on membership and chapters, but that's just me. I'm not going to trash Autonomous, because in doing so I would be trashing people like Carter Camp. I just won't go there.
We also need to remember that there are NDN people who don't like or support either faction and for good reason. Members of both sides, myself included, have at one time or another, lended themselves to the acronym of AIM meaning A**holes in Moccasins.
Regarding the split into two factions, I suggest that new comers read the Edgewood Declaration http://www.dickshovel.com/Edgewood.html and it's rebuttal http://www.aimovement.org/moipr/USvAIMbackground.html. Do your homework extensively on both before making a decision as to who you believe is right, should you choose to take a side.
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May be I am wrong with A.I.M. and Autonomous AIM. If so I apologize for a wrong statement concerning the status of Autonomous AIM groups.
I am back now from Maryland and find the following comment on AIM Lancaster County.
Wanbli GleskaRoy R.
Oct 23 2009 10:14 AM
HOLLOW BONER AND WACIPI,HEED THIS WARNING,TAKE YOUR VENOUMOUS LIES BACK TO EUROPE WITH YOUR STOCKPILE OF BLACK HAIR DYE,CAREFULL WHERE YOU TREAD,HAVE THICK SKIN BUT WONT TOLERATE YOUR MENTIONING OF FRIENDS OR FAMILY...THINK BEFORE YOU ACT AS THIS WILL CATCH UP TO YOU...YOUR IGNORANCE AND FALASIES MAY FOOL NAFPS AND GROUPIES,BUT YOU AND I KNOW YOU ARE THE POSER AND IN A FIT OF JEALOUS RAGE,TYPICAL OF EUROPEAN DECENT...PULL YOUR HEAD OUT OF YOUR RECTUM,TAKE A BREATH OF FRESH AIR,FEEL THE SUNS WARMTH...AND PERHAPS YOU MAY HAVE A GOOD DAY...F%&$#@ WACK JOBS!!!
I guess this shows the real character. Sounds to me more like a GOONS comment than AIM. Anyhow, I will step out of this discussion. Not that I am afraid of this "warning". I am afraid this will escalade here in PA and I fear that these people on their rampage may harm people out there who have nothing to do with this all.
My conclusion is: Screw AIM, looks like native people out there are still on their own. The trickster is already within.
If it is helpful to recover the peace and to go on drawing nice pictures, just delete my comments. Sad enough that insults and harassments, the taste of violence, is the way of those who claim to act in the interest of the People.
I thank everyone in here for the thoughts on this thread and I am thankful for the courtesy towards my person.
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I'm new here and have followed this thread with much interest but after I've read the last couple messages I came to the conclusion to add my 2 beads. I have to admit that I don't know anybody from this autonomous AIM chapter but their actions have shown me enough to say that I could NEVER support them because they are not trustworthy at all. To openly speak out treads to others doesn't sound very "professional" to me and are a disgrace to what AIM IS and WAS all about. They are a disgrace to Carter, Russell, Dennis, Leonard and all those who fought, died and got incarcerated for what the native peoples believe in. Those who sit behind that pitiful bunch of "Pretindians" ain't any better, hiding behind those who are dumb enough to do their dirty jobs, that's probably the reason why they "hired" whites as well............do whites know what we really need? Do whites know "anything" about our "history" or AIM? It's not about putting beads and feathers in your hair and give yourself an Indian name. There is "way" more to that.
My personal opinion is that they "elected" this ROY as the speaker, made him into the "headman" of this whole silly "organization" (obviously Chinka and Bob "operate" only in hiding )yet didn't even realize that he (Roy) doesn't have any backbone. He might think he's the strongest, but didn't realize that he has a huge weakness.........that's why he's barking at everybody. He wants so badly to be somebody that's why he's running his mouth at everybody. It would be wise to get some backbone first instead of jumping to conclusions and threatening others. It doesn't sound like AIM to me it's more like a GOON squad. We should try to work "with" each other instead against.
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I'm new here and have followed this thread with much interest but after I've read the last couple messages I came to the conclusion to add my 2 beads. I have to admit that I don't know anybody from this autonomous AIM chapter but their actions have shown me enough to say that I could NEVER support them because they are not trustworthy at all. To openly speak out treads to others doesn't sound very "professional" to me and are a disgrace to what AIM IS and WAS all about. They are a disgrace to Carter, Russell, Dennis, Leonard and all those who fought, died and got incarcerated for what the native peoples believe in.
Making threats, veiled or outward is cowardly behavior. Making threats because a person or entity is called out on their behavior shows lack of experience.
Those who sit behind that pitiful bunch of "Pretindians" ain't any better, hiding behind those who are dumb enough to do their dirty jobs, that's probably the reason why they "hired" whites as well............do whites know what we really need? Do whites know "anything" about our "history" or AIM? It's not about putting beads and feathers in your hair and give yourself an Indian name. There is "way" more to that.
Neither faction 'hires' anyone, both factions have a history of support groups that include a good number of non-indian and descendant members. Pretendians is a whole other ball of wax however and are counterproductive.
My personal opinion is that they "elected" this ROY as the speaker, made him into the "headman" of this whole silly "organization" (obviously Chinka and Bob "operate" only in hiding )yet didn't even realize that he (Roy) doesn't have any backbone. He might think he's the strongest, but didn't realize that he has a huge weakness.........that's why he's barking at everybody. He wants so badly to be somebody that's why he's running his mouth at everybody. It would be wise to get some backbone first instead of jumping to conclusions and threatening others. It doesn't sound like AIM to me it's more like a GOON squad. We should try to work "with" each other instead against.
I've made it clear that I don't always agree with Chinka and Bob. Neither of them are operating in hiding, I can put you in contact if you would like. Chinka is dealing with issues in the northeast. He is also caring for an elder, there is already snow in the area he is living in, making sure that this elder has heat and is in good health (he stops in to check on her and spend time with her twice a day) takes up quite a bit of time. To say that Bob Roche is in hiding is ridiculous, do you even know what this guy has done for the People? He is still very involved with the indian center and chapter in his area, both of which he was instrumental in the founding of. If people don't contact them, how are they supposed to know that anybody besides myself and the person I contacted them on behalf of has an issue? Neither of them have the luxury of having spare time to scour the internet for posts on forums that are addressing issues with a particular chapter. Carter and Russ are both Autnomous yet neither have addressed this chapter, I double dog dare you to say they are hiding because they haven't taken this chapter to task :)
I am not entirely sure what happens or what is supposed to happen when a chapter is sanctioned Autonomous, as I have never been deeply involved with them, however from what I understand, once a chapter is sanctioned they operate as a separate independant entity from other chapters (please somebody correct me if I am wrong, I'm working on interpretation here). The new chapter's accountability is to said chapter's director however if said chapter's director does nothing to correct specific issues or is a participant in said issues then the sanctioning chapter can pull the sanction. Confusing? Yep :)
Threats and intimidation should not be tolerated, period, end of sentence. How can a chapter possibly be taken seriously if they stoop to this behavior? How can they expect to facilitate change for the positive in and for the indian community when they are acting negatively with chest pounding and bravado? It's bully on the playground tactics, not warrior conduct.
Teepeecreeper please don't take offense to the 'tone' of my post, I'm not trying to respond to you sounding snarky or anything, though in rereading my words that's how it could be taken. I'm simply frustrated with the entire issue.
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Who is the director of this AIM chapter? Gene Whisler/Thunderwolf/Mongoose or Roy Robertson/Wanbli Gleska/The Real Crazy Horse (who posted here as Redthunder 1891)? I thought it was Gene Whisler. I received a pm from Roy, while he was still here, correcting my use of the term "leader" for Whisler. He stated that Gene was their "director". Now everyone seems to be saying Robertson is the leader/director. Not that it matters all that much. Six of one, half a dozen of the other. Just curious.
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Yup, I can prove my heritage back to the 1800's, it doesn't make me an Indian, any more than my direct decendency from Edward the III makes me part of the British Royal family. Get real.
I'm content to keep very far away from this group, I find this group to be immature, defensive, crude and rude in ways which will come back and bite them in the butt. Making real change in the world requires one to stop acting like chest thumping adolescents in some role playing game. No one is going to take anything said by them seriously out here in the real world.
If you are going to put yourself out there you have to expect to be looked at and questioned and criticized. You have to be able to dialogue with people in convincing and persuasive ways. Learn how to respond in a way that FURTHERS your goals, not HINDERS them. Rudely telling people to shut up and throwing crude insults around won't cut it.
What do you care what is said here anyway? Just go do it. Try your way. And as Dr. Phil says, let us know "How's that working for you?"
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And critter do you know anything about A.I.M ? So keep your nose else where...
I'm sorry you are angry. And I wish to tell you that my voice was in regards to a person who instead of replying to issues being posted, opted to reply in regards to spelling errors. I found that maddening. He then posted some sort of threat in regards to being asked about the AIM group. I don't know why the anger to be asked, from an objective view point, if a group of people are constantly being mimicked and false people pretend to be of their culture, then it would follow that members of that culture would ask for clarification and proof of those claiming to be part of their culture or part of a group that is 'for' that culture. I do not understand the anger for having been asked, or even grilled, to give proof of this or that.
Again, my voice was not so much about AIM as it was about a person claiming support yet replying in regards to spelling errors and then posting threats. And for myself, that is not a person I would want representing me or my family in any way whatsoever.
Peace. Be well.
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True....True....True....It's not that i care about your support....it's about your lies....and the throwing of names...." ringo " ....do you guys think it's wise to be throwing names out there ? I would think about that....If you know him as well as i do....you would know not to bring his name up when he can not defend his self on what is being said....as to making me indian....It makes me blood....Edward the III....? that's your problem....And to putting ourselves out there....Well criticism, ok was heard....insults? different story.... Again, you can dish it out but can't accept it ? As to real world issues....Doing that also....but your worried about finding the wrong instead of the good right ? As for Dr Phil ? Ha !
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True....True....True....It's not that i care about your support....it's about your lies....and the throwing of names...." ringo " ....do you guys think it's wise to be throwing names out there ? I would think about that....If you know him as well as i do....you would know not to bring his name up when he can not defend his self on what is being said....as to making me indian....It makes me blood....Edward the III....? that's your problem....And to putting ourselves out there....Well criticism, ok was heard....insults? different story.... Again, you can dish it out but can't accept it ? As to real world issues....Doing that also....but your worried about finding the wrong instead of the good right ? As for Dr Phil ? Ha !
Look, if you are AIM, you are public figures. It's AIM Autonomous, not AIM Anonymous. Your names are going to be out there. You are going to be scrutinized. If you don't want that, don't put yourself out there. It comes with the territory. IMHO, the cause is worth it, BUT realize, when you do this, there is a risk. That's part of it.
The truth is, if you could see it, you could learn a lot from this thread. People have asked real questions and have been told basically to butt out or have been insulted. Most of the insults in this thread are from the people who have been questioned.
Plus, what lies?
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Not getting pulled into this...It's over....Everyone had their say, so why not move on....no one needs anyones support....so do what you enjoy doing and let everyone do what they need to do....this is going no where....and i can not and will not waste my time on here....It is true that there is so much more out there to be spending our energy on....so have a good night and may you find peace....please delete me from this thread....thank you
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I think it is really sad that something good comes along and is trying to do good and people are trying to get negative things and put it down. I think it is awesome that there is one in PA again. I think it is awesome what they are doing. But to drag them through the mud and to put them down is wrong. Should be ashamed. We have much worse things going on in this world to be going off about not this. I have seen the myspace bulletins and stuff and I have not seen anything wrong with it. I agree with TRUE BLOOD 100%. The only way things are going to change for the better is if people join together not bash each other or other organizations. Nothing good comes of it. It is time to stop with the bickering and the bashing and the name calling and all that stuff and move on. Everybody spoke thier piece so now its time to move on.
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yes...very correct.....little shadow....they do not seem to know how to let a good thing be.....i think it makes one feel powerful in this cyber world eh ?....But it is the real world issues that need taken care of !!
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yes...very correct.....little shadow....they do not seem to know how to let a good thing be.....i think it makes one feel powerful in this cyber world eh ?....But it is the real world issues that need taken care of !!
I don't think y'all would know a "real world issue" if it was staring you in the face. If by chance you recognized it, you obviously wouldn't know how to deal with it. I keep hearing young, immature, inexperienced used to describe this group. Not so young, but definitely immature and inexperienced. Did y'all think that going to Lewisburg, drumming and demonstrating, would make you accepted in Indian Country? You don't have to be Indian to support Leonard. He has lots of support in Europe. There's so much more to life than powwows and bigger issues than Leonard Peltier.
No one has talked about anyone's family or children. No one has put anyone's "family business out there". I'm the one who brought up the names Gene Whisler gave his children and it wasn't to "belittle" the kids. Giving his children twinkie names and calling them "little savages" shows how little Whisler knows about or understands any of the "real world issues". Dressing in buckskin and claiming to have a traditional Cherokee wedding . . . Well, that screams wannabe. Being enrolled with SECCI . . . Why would anyone enroll in a fake tribe? How can we take y'all seriously?
I may have to accept the fact that Autonomous AIM of Lancaster & Chester County is a legitimate AIM chapter, but I don't have to accept any of y'all.
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Good words taraverti! I've really enjoyed your input on this thread.
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That petition this group is endorsing was written by David Stands With Song Hughes, Chief of the Eagle Medicine Band of Cherokee Indians/former Chief of the Cherokee Nation of New Jersey. (I know, I know. Another group of Cherokees.)
Reclaiming Our Cherokee Culture...Again!!
To: U.S. Congress
We, the undersigned, are requesting the President of the United States, The Senate and House of Representatives, and the Judiciary of the United States of America, along with the support of the public in defending the rights of non-reservation Cherokee descendants. We acknowledge that many persons today, who are descendants of American Indian people who were residing within the borders of the original thirteen colonies, upon first contact, rather enslaved or free Indians, ancestors were also labeled negro, colored, mulatto, and black, as were Africans, by the institution of colonization in an act to perpetuate the assimilation of our ancestors into a “non-white” class of American society.
Now, as law abiding citizens of the United States of America, autonomous Cherokee tribes, and Class IV Cherokees, we solicit protection against the infringements of our right to assemble, govern ourselves, raise awareness, promote, and organize as people of Cherokee descent. We ask that all actions made by any Governmental agency Federal, State, or Tribal with the intent to interfere and hinder our path-way of life as Cherokee descendants to cease and be relinquished.
Finally, we believe it is the will of the Creator to honor and celebrate The Great Spirit, our ancestors, elders, families, children, future generations, and earth mother through the public and private sharing of our distinct historical, cultural, and traditional values as Cherokees or, as we call ourselves, ani-yun-wi-ya (Principal People).
With both the Creator and your help..."We Can"
Please sign the petition.
Sincerely,
The Reclaiming Our Cherokee Culture...Again!! Petition to U.S. Congress was created by Eagle Medicine Band of Cherokee Indians and written by David Stands with Song Hughes (standswithsong@yahoo.com).
http://www.petitiononline.com/runndn2/petition.html
David Stands With Song Hughes
http://www.standswithsong.com/Bio.html
Now that's impressive!
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Thanks for your kind words, BLS926. I've found a voice recently.
I think my oldest son and his girlfriend may know David Hughes. She graduated from CAPA, although she probably was several years behind him. I've emailed her a link to his bio.
I'm sending you a PM
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wow....you've done your home work....[Half a dozen childish insults, remarks, and personal attacks removed]
ok as for David Stands With Song....never met him....seems like a good man....like his page...He has a dream....so sure i will back him....I'll sign the petition later....Have you called him to express your concerns yet ? [More childishness]
....So what blood are you ? And what is your name ? ....Let's see if you are legit ? ....Much bigger issues then Leonard Peltier ?? ...Where are they ?? i see none here, But i will recheck....As for me and so many others he is so worth fighting for....You see he is the real issues we stand for....and yes we will fight for his freedom....[Yet more]....Oh your real world issues are David ?? wow he is a threat hu ?....Bad David...I geuss he should be sent to the corner....And you keep saying ya'll like i am in their chapter....Defending them....doesn't mean that i am a part of them does it ?....just another concerned citizen :)....who can't stand to see [Yet more] bring them down....It will never happen...they will grow get stronger and fight for their cause....and you'll still be on here doing your home work [Still more]....
[Mod's note: Keep the personal insults out and grow up. It also would help if you learned to write a sentence.]
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Ok,im new here,but i do wish to say e few things,for both sides of this arguement,
I would like to say that AIM PA amy be immature and rude but i dont know,who in here is a member of this group besides Red Thunder?
I dont know this Gene Whisler guy but it seems like you guys are digging up alot on him,yet he says nothing on here so i commend him on that.
he is humble and mature for not contributing to this thread.I think when you were going after him on here,you all lost focus on the topic.
Trad Dancer,you are hot headed and need to calm down because if you are a member of this group,your not going to help the situation by being that way.
Your heart may be in the right place,and thats good,but there are better ways to handle things.
I also am of mixed blood,but does that mean i cant be Native? AIM? how can we say we dont discriminate,yet say things like Danny,Genes friend being the whitest,or something to those lines.If someone is half blood does that make them less Native than say a full blood who was raised by a white family?
BLS-or should i say BS,you seem to be an adjitater or an instigater,i see your name on here more than anyones,do you have nothing better to do? get a life!
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And i would also like to say that,Hollow Bone,if you have something personal against Gene,do you really think putting his personal information out there is a intellegent thing to do?
Sky,i like how you are staying neutral dispite everyone on here,you have much courage!
Critter,you shouldnt not read the info. on Auto. Aim and GCCC,just because you are mad at this group,thats kind of immature.
I do understand people saying they dont trust this group,theyre new i dont trust them either.But that doesnt mean i wont let them help if it was needed.
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wow....you've done your home work....[Half a dozen childish insults, remarks, and personal attacks removed]
ok as for David Stands With Song....never met him....seems like a good man....like his page...He has a dream....so sure i will back him....I'll sign the petition later....Have you called him to express your concerns yet ? [More childishness]
....So what blood are you ? And what is your name ? ....Let's see if you are legit ? ....Much bigger issues then Leonard Peltier ?? ...Where are they ?? i see none here, But i will recheck....As for me and so many others he is so worth fighting for....You see he is the real issues we stand for....and yes we will fight for his freedom....[Yet more]....Oh your real world issues are David ?? wow he is a threat hu ?....Bad David...I geuss he should be sent to the corner....And you keep saying ya'll like i am in their chapter....Defending them....doesn't mean that i am a part of them does it ?....just another concerned citizen :)....who can't stand to see [Yet more] bring them down....It will never happen...they will grow get stronger and fight for their cause....and you'll still be on here doing your home work [Still more]....
[Mod's note: Keep the personal insults out and grow up. It also would help if you learned to write a sentence.]
Thanks for editing out true_blood's insults, Al, but it really wasn't necessary. "tough guy", "kindergarten behavior" . . . whatever. Have been called a whole lot worse; comes with the territory. Funny how people start calling names and attacking when you've touched a nerve, gotten a little too close to the truth.
Ok,im new here,but i do wish to say e few things,for both sides of this arguement,
I would like to say that AIM PA amy be immature and rude but i dont know,who in here is a member of this group besides Red Thunder?
I dont know this Gene Whisler guy but it seems like you guys are digging up alot on him,yet he says nothing on here so i commend him on that.
he is humble and mature for not contributing to this thread.I think when you were going after him on here,you all lost focus on the topic.
Trad Dancer,you are hot headed and need to calm down because if you are a member of this group,your not going to help the situation by being that way.
Your heart may be in the right place,and thats good,but there are better ways to handle things.
I also am of mixed blood,but does that mean i cant be Native? AIM? how can we say we dont discriminate,yet say things like Danny,Genes friend being the whitest,or something to those lines.If someone is half blood does that make them less Native than say a full blood who was raised by a white family?
BLS-or should i say BS,you seem to be an adjitater or an instigater,i see your name on here more than anyones,do you have nothing better to do? get a life!
First post on NAFPS and you're criticizing everything and everyone here. That shows a lot of class! I'm only going to address the part you directed to me. An agitator, an instigator . . . no, not at all. I'm someone who believes in being honest. I don't care if you're full-blood or little-to-none-at-all . . . just be truthful about it. Don't pretend to be someone or something you aren't. Descendants who think they're honoring their one Indian ancestor by claiming Indian status aren't honoring anyone at all. If someone wants to play Indian in their own backyard . . . have at it. If they think they can speak for Indian Country . . . that's something entirely different. Pretendians aren't helping; they're actually doing damage. Petitions like the one David Hughes has started and AIM-PA is supporting hurt the real Nations. How will anyone take sovereignty seriously, if every over-nighter thinks they're entitled? Fake tribes, like the one Gene/Thunderwolf is enrolled in, are an insult to the real Cherokee Nation. Nothing better to do? Get a life? I think exposing frauds is important. You have no idea what all I'm involved in; no idea how full my life is.
For both true_blood and Rkmiller . . . bls926 is my name, Bonnie L Singleton, and my birthday, September 26. I'm not hiding behind a computer screen or a silly nic.
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I do things for a reason! I can make complete sentences. It wasn't to far back in this post that everyone jumped on trad dancer because of her saying something about someone else's grammar correct ? But yet you are allowed to ? You remove my insults and tell ME to keep my personal insults out ? Why is that ? But you allow your friends, your group to personally attack with vicious insults ! Why is that i ask again ? A nerve has not been touched on me. I had to see for myself that this is what was going on. As for Gene belonging to a fake tribe ? Did you ever once tell him why you believe that that this tribe is not legit ? To tell him without insults that he needs to look into it more ? Or ask him personally why it is that his children have the names that they do ? Did you write to him personally and tell him the concerns that you do have with the chapter he has ? Without the insults? When one insults another, do they not have the right to defend themselves? You brought his life out on these threads. But not once did you think about how that might effect him personally. And Bonnie you are right , No one knows what you are involved in. But do you know what he is involved in ? Do you not think that his heart is in the cause and maybe if things were said to him without insults by old timer A.I.M members about what you believe he is doing wrong and then tell him what you believe will help him steer in the right direction would be alot better then personal attacks on him and his family? would you not defend yourself in the same situation ? Every one of you in here started not knowing everything you should of known, but you learned and picked up on everything as you went along correct? Then i believe he should be given the same right. As for Redthunder, I see him at different gatherings, he may not know who i am or notice me, But he is not who you say he is, he is kind hearted and wishes nothing but good for all the people and and at times his temper may get the best of him but as i seen on this thread, doesn't everyones? And things get said in the heat of the moment that slips out. As for pretendindians, I am far from that. Yes i could throw my tribal numbers out there, but what good would that do ? That is government issued numbers. And for you other A.I.M members on here, i seem to recall the burning of these cards right? They do not make us who we are. It is just another tracking device to me. I choose to make who i am. And i am an honest, truthful, care for my people, care what happens to my people, will fight for my people, Blood. Because these things need done before my children and there children lose their rights, their land forever ! So these personal attacks that i have made on here and the insults are not who i am, I do not wish to belittle anyone, or try to tear them apart. I pray for unity that one day we can all come together and fight this fight that has been going on for centuries, and win, win our rights back, before it is to late. So i will take it upon my self to apologize for my personal insults Because i do not know you ,so i have no right to judge you, correct ? But it is time for me to move on and i wish all of you the best of what you are fighting for.
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First post on NAFPS and you're criticizing everything and everyone here. That shows a lot of class!
------ i wasnt aware that we needed "Class" to put a post up on here,sounds discriminatory to me.I wa stating that your name is on here more than anyone elses,thats all,it does seem you do have alot of time to waste on this thread.------
I'm only going to address the part you directed to me. An agitator, an instigator . . . no, not at all. I'm someone who believes in being honest. I don't care if you're full-blood or little-to-none-at-all ------apparently you do your own words state it,liar!-----. . . just be truthful about it. Don't pretend to be someone or something you aren't.------Whos pretending? your just accusing people of doing so------ Descendants who think they're honoring their one Indian ancestor by claiming Indian status aren't honoring anyone at all. If someone wants to play Indian in their own backyard . . . have at it. If they think they can speak for Indian Country -----again,if they dont live on a rez,they arent Indian? why do you keep repeating this?------. . . that's something entirely different. Pretendians aren't helping; they're actually doing damage. Petitions like the one David Hughes has started and AIM-PA is supporting hurt the real Nations. How will anyone take sovereignty seriously, if every over-nighter thinks they're entitled? Fake tribes, like the one Gene/Thunderwolf is enrolled in,------Hold on where is this proof of Gene Thunderwolf's card?,not hear say,PROOF!?----- are an insult to the real Cherokee Nation. Nothing better to do? Get a life? I think exposing frauds is important.------But your not really doing that,all you are doing is wasting everyones time,The question was,Is this group for real?,the answer is YES they are,enough said why do you keep this thread going with you bs? BS---- You have no idea what all I'm involved in; no idea how full my life is.
For both true_blood and Rkmiller . . . bls926 is my name, Bonnie L Singleton, and my birthday, September 26. I'm not hiding behind a computer screen or a silly nic.
Well my email says my name! Rick Miller,its kind of obvious,DUH!
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It's not heasay that the person who runs the AIM Lancaster County MySpace page (and I believe it is Gene) is a member of southeastern cherokee council of georgia. He said so himself to me in a message on MYSPACE.
AKA SECCI. Fake Cherokee tribe
edited to add - as far as writing and asking him and talking to him I DID write back to him mentioning how he must not been too happy with the CNO, being that SECCI is on their list of phony tribes. I would have been happy to dialogue about it, he never replied.
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Critter,you shouldnt not read the info. on Auto. Aim and GCCC,just because you are mad at this group,thats kind of immature.
Thanks, oh, no wasn't about the 'group' was about the representative, lost my appetite to really learn any more about it.. But, as I stated in my post, I will read the info as I prefer to be fair, and not let one apple spoil the barrel. :)
btw.. it wasn't about 'grammar' it was about completely ignoring a true issue to instead, make comments on someone's spelling, which even that is bad enough. No one is perfect, it's silly to attack someone for spelling.
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Critter,of all the things that were said,the whole "grammer" thing is what make u lose your appetite? yeah,ok!
stop saying things like that,you will just make everyone else lose thiers.
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Critter,of all the things that were said,the whole "grammer" thing is what make u lose your appetite? yeah,ok!
stop saying things like that,you will just make everyone else lose thiers.
oh, good grief, critter has said SEVERAL times it was not the GRAMMAR that did it, it was the use of criticism of someones spelling to DEFLECT from the objection to the OFFENSIVE use of term "LITTLE SAVAGES" to refer to one's children.
It's all there in print if you read the thread.
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I don't even know where to begin. How do you respond to someone who hasn't taken the time to read this thread, to become familiar with everything that has been said? Rick, it's obvious you haven't read all the posts. You're speaking from emotion, not facts or rational thinking. I am probably wasting my time, but I'm going to give it my best shot. Maybe, just maybe, something will sink in this time.
First post on NAFPS and you're criticizing everything and everyone here. That shows a lot of class!
------ i wasnt aware that we needed "Class" to put a post up on here,sounds discriminatory to me.I wa stating that your name is on here more than anyone elses,thats all,it does seem you do have alot of time to waste on this thread.------
I try to make sure that nothing I say or do would bring shame to my family. Class? Respect? Maturity? The way I was raised. Discriminatory? How so?
I don't think I post on NAFPS any more than the other members. As far as my name being on this thread more than anyone else's . . . Each of us has certain issues that we're working on. This problem caught my attention because I grew up in Chester County; it's my home. I have family in both counties.
I'm only going to address the part you directed to me. An agitator, an instigator . . . no, not at all. I'm someone who believes in being honest. I don't care if you're full-blood or little-to-none-at-all ------apparently you do your own words state it,liar!-----. . . just be truthful about it.
You did not call me a liar. Anyone who knows me, knows that I don't lie. It doesn't matter if you're full-blood, a descendant, white as snow or black as coal. I don't discriminate. Just be honest about who and what you are. Don't claim to be Indian when your last relative with ties to your Nation died before you were born.
Don't pretend to be someone or something you aren't.------Whos pretending? your just accusing people of doing so------
If your family has been removed from their People for 100 years, you are not Indian. You're a descendant, but you cannot claim to be Indian. If you are, you're pretending.
Descendants who think they're honoring their one Indian ancestor by claiming Indian status aren't honoring anyone at all. If someone wants to play Indian in their own backyard . . . have at it. If they think they can speak for Indian Country -----again,if they dont live on a rez,they arent Indian? why do you keep repeating this?------. . . that's something entirely different.
I never said you aren't Indian unless you live on a reservation, not on this thread or anywhere else. I don't think like that. The point I was trying to make was that as a descendant, you do not have the right to speak for Indians. You can support what they are doing, but you can't speak for them.
Pretendians aren't helping; they're actually doing damage. Petitions like the one David Hughes has started and AIM-PA is supporting hurt the real Nations. How will anyone take sovereignty seriously, if every over-nighter thinks they're entitled? Fake tribes, like the one Gene/Thunderwolf is enrolled in,------Hold on where is this proof of Gene Thunderwolf's card?,not hear say,PROOF!?----- are an insult to the real Cherokee Nation.
In Gene's own words:
SecciCircle http://dir.groups.yahoo.com/group/SecciCircle/message/103
"Mongoose"
Fri Feb 27, 2009 2:48 pm
My name is Gene Thunderwolf,I am a member of the SECCI in PA
My wifes name is Joy Blueflower,I have 2 kids n 2 step kids.
Im 35 years old,and i practice the old ways.If u get the Talking Leaves
Newspaper,this issue has an article and picture in it of my Traditional
Cherokee Wedding i had a few years ago n some information as well.
I am a Marshall for The Earth Band of SECCI.
If there are any more questions feel free to ask.
Im looking forward to getting to know all of you,
Dona dagahv,Gene Thunderwolf
I really don't think I need to add anything; his words speak for themselves.
Nothing better to do? Get a life? I think exposing frauds is important.------But your not really doing that,all you are doing is wasting everyones time,The question was,Is this group for real?,the answer is YES they are,enough said why do you keep this thread going with you bs? BS---- You have no idea what all I'm involved in; no idea how full my life is.
As I said earlier, I may have to accept that this AIM chapter is legitimate, but I don't have to accept any of y'all. I have a real problem with wannabes and bliss bunnies. A bead and a feather does not make an Indian, no matter how much y'all want it to.
For both true_blood and Rkmiller . . . bls926 is my name, Bonnie L Singleton, and my birthday, September 26. I'm not hiding behind a computer screen or a silly nic.
Well my email says my name! Rick Miller,its kind of obvious,DUH!
Hopefully, you'll now have a better idea where I stand on this issue, provided you took the time to read what I've written.
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Teepeecreeper please don't take offense to the 'tone' of my post, I'm not trying to respond to you sounding snarky or anything, though in rereading my words that's how it could be taken. I'm simply frustrated with the entire issue.
Sky, no offense taken. By rereading my words I have to admit that you are right. It's just so frustrating to stay focused and calm on this particular thread. All that bickering, inmature and childish behavior and there is no end to it. I have the feeling that everybody from that particular "group" is molded the same way, that's why they get along so well. They seek and find their own kind, but their behavior is no excuse and something I cannot accept. Rudely telling people to shut up and throwing crude insults is unexceptable. The insults just keep coming and so do the threats and all that from people who sign up with another new name yet they are the same person. That trueblood and Redthunder seemed to be the same and so does another, but that's just my personal opinion. It quite obvious to me... always the same temper and always the same pattern in writing yet they still think people are stupid. They operate (at least that's what they're trying to do) under the cover of anonymous by signing up with different names yet they are easy to figure out. So my question would be..."who's the liar?"
Kudos to taraverti and I agree and quote
Look, if you are AIM, you are public figures. It's AIM Autonomous, not AIM Anonymous. Your names are going to be out there. You are going to be scrutinized. If you don't want that, don't put yourself out there. It comes with the territory. IMHO, the cause is worth it, BUT realize, when you do this, there is a risk. That's part of it. The truth is, if you could see it, you could learn a lot from this thread. People have asked real questions and have been told basically to butt out or have been insulted. Most of the insults in this thread are from the people who have been questioned.
Guess that's where them people have a problem with. The meaning and difference between Autonomous and Anonymous. There action speak much louder and I'm not wondering anymore that these people have so many issues and bad behavior. I cannot help it but to me it looks like boys scouts/girls scouts gone wild. They are nothing more then cuber bullies yet I wouldn't be surprised if they bully elsewhere as well....hot headed, inmature, stupid little wannabe rambos who think they can run and/or operate whatever they are trying to run. For sure as hell's not freezin over I don't want them people represent me or my family/people and that's all there is to it.
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I see you also have a way to try and brings things out. Red thunder? That is a compliment, but no I am a woman. And once more " I do not " belong to this group. As to some in this whole forum know ! And know who i am, a Liar I'm not. An ole' timer yes. For not looking through the thread, I have, I looked through the entire forum. And see that most are out to fight for what they believe. To protect their way of life. And also the future generations. I wanted to back out of this thread and look into the others because there are some that caught my attention, But yet again i am left having to defend myself and another from allegations. Knowing and belonging to a organization are two separate issues. And to be frank with you, there are A.I.M members that stay anonymous. Why, Because it needs to stay that way. That is why, But you question that also. You said it also, Quote " It's so frustrating to stay focused and calm on this particular thread" end quote. look at your own words. but you can not move on. Easy to figure out? You still haven't and never will. Sometimes calls are made and issues need looking into. On both sides.
Cyber bullies, no i despise this cyber world.! It takes away from learning the true teachings that our children need taught, because they are so much more interested into being on here then learning their true culture. And so many of what you call wannabees find a perfect way to make more money. to trick others into things they never would of came across if it wasn't for this cyber world.
And i ask again why your insults were not edited out? Favoritism can not be when everyone is fighting the things this forum is fighting. Your thoughts and insights of everyone needs to considered. Not saying you have to agree on everyone else's opinions. because you don't.
They are not the only one's being looked at, Keep that in mind, Before you give this forum and what they stand for a bad name, I believe the insults needs to stop. I seen some other threads and letters written to whom were being considered at the time and the professionalism went way further then the insults, Do you not agree?
So i wish you well in your cause and your fight. AHO
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Hi -
I apologize for interrupting, and I am having a tough time following this thread, but would like to get my expose of the nu-age fraud ring through to AIM both National and Autonomous. A large number of the frauds who show up here at NAFPS operate through this ring.
Please PM me if you can be of assistance in getting this information to them - I paid for it dearly.
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And i ask again why your insults were not edited out?
It's not clear who you were speaking to. As far as I can see, the ones you are angry with have not insulted you, just disagreed. if you can show a personal insult from one of them, simply inform a mod. There is no favoritism here. Longtime members can attest to that.
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Critter,of all the things that were said,the whole "grammer" thing is what make u lose your appetite? yeah,ok!
stop saying things like that,you will just make everyone else lose thiers.
LOL Sorry, I found this rather funny. Please read what I've written, it is not as you are saying. :) Bowing out of the fray... not really my thing to argue senselessly. Be well! :)
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I see you also have a way to try and brings things out. Red thunder? That is a compliment, but no I am a woman. And once more " I do not " belong to this group. As to some in this whole forum know ! And know who i am, a Liar I'm not. An ole' timer yes. For not looking through the thread, I have, I looked through the entire forum. And see that most are out to fight for what they believe. To protect their way of life. And also the future generations. I wanted to back out of this thread and look into the others because there are some that caught my attention, But yet again i am left having to defend myself and another from allegations. Knowing and belonging to a organization are two separate issues. And to be frank with you, there are A.I.M members that stay anonymous. Why, Because it needs to stay that way. That is why, But you question that also. You said it also, Quote " It's so frustrating to stay focused and calm on this particular thread" end quote. look at your own words. but you can not move on. Easy to figure out? You still haven't and never will. Sometimes calls are made and issues need looking into. On both sides.
Cyber bullies, no i despise this cyber world.! It takes away from learning the true teachings that our children need taught, because they are so much more interested into being on here then learning their true culture. And so many of what you call wannabees find a perfect way to make more money. to trick others into things they never would of came across if it wasn't for this cyber world.
And i ask again why your insults were not edited out? Favoritism can not be when everyone is fighting the things this forum is fighting. Your thoughts and insights of everyone needs to considered. Not saying you have to agree on everyone else's opinions. because you don't.
They are not the only one's being looked at, Keep that in mind, Before you give this forum and what they stand for a bad name, I believe the insults needs to stop. I seen some other threads and letters written to whom were being considered at the time and the professionalism went way further then the insults, Do you not agree?
So i wish you well in your cause and your fight. AHO
True_blood....if I was wrong and obviously I was then I do apologize. I sure am not perfect and make mistakes just as others yet have no problem to speak my mind and apologize for my wrong doings. What I cannot accept from you is putting words into my mouth. I never insulted anybody in here...I DISAGREED and obviously you cannot handle that but quite frankly I really don't care. Why should I agree? You sure don't! Do not think that you can claim favors only for yourself. I voiced my opinion...I was wrong (in some things) and I apologize, but do not think you can step on my toes too much and put words into my mouth. And for the cyber bullies...well, I cannot and will not change my mind on that. I've seen and heard enough from this "autonomous" group and there was nothing pleasant about it. It's all about choices and I made mine as you made yours. I do not have to agree with your opinions...I respect them as I respect everybody elses opinions but I expect the same in return.
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hoping for a new question ...going back to staring at the monitor
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Real but not credible, IMHO. There's a difference.
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oh, good grief, critter has said SEVERAL times it was not the GRAMMAR that did it, it was the use of criticism of someones spelling to DEFLECT from the objection to the OFFENSIVE use of term "LITTLE SAVAGES" to refer to one's children.
It's all there in print if you read the thread.
Oh Taraverti, I meant to say thank you.. but also wanted to clarify it was suicide that was the post I was reading when I then went on to read reply on that issue and found instead, issues of spelling.
Suicide is close to my heart, and so perhaps I over reacted in my response.
Just wanted to clarify.. that's all. And thanks. :)
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oh, good grief, critter has said SEVERAL times it was not the GRAMMAR that did it, it was the use of criticism of someones spelling to DEFLECT from the objection to the OFFENSIVE use of term "LITTLE SAVAGES" to refer to one's children.
It's all there in print if you read the thread.
Oh Taraverti, I meant to say thank you.. but also wanted to clarify it was suicide that was the post I was reading when I then went on to read reply on that issue and found instead, issues of spelling.
Suicide is close to my heart, and so perhaps I over reacted in my response.
Just wanted to clarify.. that's all. And thanks. :)
Thanks, I remember that now. Both are important.
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bls,
i have seen the following link,SecciCircle http://dir.groups.yahoo.com/group/SecciCircle/message/103
theres the proof i was seeking,i humbly apologize to you as i was wrong.
i am human and i make mistakes,once again i apologize for questioning what you had told before.
as for the rest of this thread,i read and re-read the responses and questions on here,and i will be stepping out because i feel that there was a question,the question was answered,and that should be the end of it. instead everone in here is just lookin for more things to insult this group,its like watching my 10 year old and 7 year old daughters argue,i cant believe how childish,repetative everyones being on here,sounds like a bunch of politicians in here.
enclosing i wish everyone on here well,i hope that sometime soon everyone stops focusing on negative issues such as this one and thinks positive and supports this group,i have done some investigating,and they have done some good things,and are working on some good things as well,i myself will not interfere with positive progress or smash anyone who is trying to do something positive for the people,thanx for the conversation on here,i wish you all well,Rick Miller
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. . . So i will take it upon my self to apologize for my personal insults Because i do not know you ,so i have no right to judge you, correct ? But it is time for me to move on and i wish all of you the best of what you are fighting for.
bls,
i have seen the following link,SecciCircle http://dir.groups.yahoo.com/group/SecciCircle/message/103
theres the proof i was seeking,i humbly apologize to you as i was wrong.
i am human and i make mistakes,once again i apologize for questioning what you had told before. . .
Apologies accepted.
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LOL Sorry, I found this rather funny. Please read what I've written, it is not as you are saying. Bowing out of the fray... not really my thing to argue senselessly. Be well!
Yeah you do that,not sure that it was funny as much as you were probably embarrassed as besides this,nothing you have said here has made any sense at all,and you have the mentallity of a 12 year old,obviously you cant make a grown up point and no one can have a adult conversation with you, so the only thing senseless about that arguement was what you yourself said,so yes do your little LOL laugh,keep thinkin your better than everyone else and leave the thread,because if that was the best you have you need no try to make anyone else on here look bad as you do worse and worse to yourself.
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LOL Sorry, I found this rather funny. Please read what I've written, it is not as you are saying. Bowing out of the fray... not really my thing to argue senselessly. Be well!
Yeah you do that,not sure that it was funny as much as you were probably embarrassed as besides this,nothing you have said here has made any sense at all,and you have the mentallity of a 12 year old,obviously you cant make a grown up point and no one can have a adult conversation with you, so the only thing senseless about that arguement was what you yourself said,so yes do your little LOL laugh,keep thinkin your better than everyone else and leave the thread,because if that was the best you have you need no try to make anyone else on here look bad as you do worse and worse to yourself.
It really takes very little to set you off, doesn't it?
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Taraverti,its not just a little its everything critter has wrote in this whole thread i was reffering to. so indeed i was set off,but by quite alot.
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LOL Sorry, I found this rather funny. Please read what I've written, it is not as you are saying. Bowing out of the fray... not really my thing to argue senselessly. Be well!
Yeah you do that,not sure that it was funny as much as you were probably embarrassed as besides this,nothing you have said here has made any sense at all,and you have the mentallity of a 12 year old,obviously you cant make a grown up point and no one can have a adult conversation with you, so the only thing senseless about that arguement was what you yourself said,so yes do your little LOL laugh,keep thinkin your better than everyone else and leave the thread,because if that was the best you have you need no try to make anyone else on here look bad as you do worse and worse to yourself.
I stated something but decided to come back and just say Never Mind. I seriously don't engage with this type of nonsense.
edited: I decided to come and just say.. I commented on was how someone read a post about an issue of suicide and replied about spelling errors, and that I wouldn't want a person like that representing me. And because of that, you have all of the above to say. It makes no sense to me, so I call it nonsense. Maybe you're just out trying to pick a fight, I don't do that, you'll have to bait someone else into a fight if that's what you're trying to do. And yes, I think trying to bait 'me' into a fight is rather funny, because I won't do it.
I've distracted enough from this topic, never intended it to go beyond my outburst of a couple pages back. I apologize for the distraction to those who are interested in the 'Topic', and will no longer respond to this off topic subject. Thank you.
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Critter, i wanna reflect on his cause im not tryin to pick a fight but wanna respond to this.....
you say you dont get involved insenseless talk......but apparently you do bcause you responded...........[Insults removed]
not only that.i was looking around and apparently your in other threads and topics here as well[More insults]
[RKMiller went on to insult the same person in half a dozen other threads. Not disagreement, but nothing but childish insults. This is trolling and spamming. All were deleted, and any future instances will result in a ban on their ISP.]
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I know that they are no longer listed as AIM of PA they are now Autonomus Chapter of AIM Pa. I talked to a friend and asked if they would find out any info and they talked with both guys involved and told them to remove the AIM site and list it as Autonomus and they complied.
It seems they want to accomodate so lets see how it goes I say.
The thing that bothers me the most about the site is, it seems to Political all the time everything is about How things are being used ect ect ect. How come nothing positive is said there. After all with Natives not all things are being destroyed Whites are helping to clean up things, and they do contribute alot to Pine Ridge and other rez.
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I know that they are no longer listed as AIM of PA they are now Autonomus Chapter of AIM Pa. I talked to a friend and asked if they would find out any info and they talked with both guys involved and told them to remove the AIM site and list it as Autonomus and they complied.
It seems they want to accomodate so lets see how it goes I say.
The thing that bothers me the most about the site is, it seems to Political all the time everything is about How things are being used ect ect ect. How come nothing positive is said there. After all with Natives not all things are being destroyed Whites are helping to clean up things, and they do contribute alot to Pine Ridge and other rez.
They have always been an Autonomous AIM Chapter; they just added it to their name. They were authorized by Chinka Whitekiller and he's with Autonomous AIM. They've also dropped Pennsylvania and switched to Lancaster and Chester County.
Littlcrowz, what site are you talking about being too political? NAFPS? That's the purpose of this forum. It isn't a friendly little, life is great, chat room.
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Is this group for real?
Please take a look at the video on their myspace webpage under the Blurbs
About me: Interview for Southern Village
http://www.myspace.com/a.aim-lanc
Whats with the white guy holding the flag with the sunglasses and bandana? I know they are trying to do this for a good cause but I am having trouble taking them serious with this white guy standing there trying to hard to look like a goon. Its very distracting from what the woman is trying to say and what I mean by distracting is I think he looks silly.
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This group has been discussed at length. We all have different opinions about the members and that's okay. However, they are a sanctioned chapter of Autonomous AIM and we have to respect that. So, to answer your question . . . Yes, this group is for real.
Edit to add: Al, you might want to remove the part about "Leonard Peltier's son" from the title of this thread. That was someone's misconception. No where on any of their sites did anyone ever claim to be Leonard's son.
[Done]
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i know this is an old thread....but there was a website saying that roy robertsons real name was roy lombardo, and they even posted pics of his dad who was a war hero and said he was full white....they also showed a pic of his SS lighning bolts on his leg and said he was in a white supremacist gang in prison...and he was a chomo
the site is down but i can post the context of it....he was part of the infamous H.I.T. online group
im not saying i believe the chomo stuff or even the white gang stuff
i ran all the names, roy robertson, roy whitehorse, roy lombardo through megans law, child offender sex registries ect ect and could not find him........so i think that part may be a lie.....but i do believe he is italian and non-indian