Jerry Pope / Jerry "Hawk" Pope

[Laurel]

From a page of Responses to the Lakota Declaration of War.  This guy hits all the high (low) notes.  Sing along, everybody!

--"All my relations"
--I know some Lakota words!
--Exploitation is so wrong.  What I do is the exception.
--People who won't give me what I want are just racists.   
--"Black Elk's Vision"
--"Nobody owns spirituality"
--Being a PODIA Means Something even though I can't prove I am one.
--I've always been fascinated by things Native, and that means I get to have them.   
--I've had visions!
--The Nice/Real Indians accept and love me, not like you meanies who think you have a right to preserve your own ways.
--If every single Native American ever born doesn't back a statment, it has no merit.
--The great spirit told me to steal your stuff.
--Cheesy "Indian name"

What makes him truly special are gems like "who am I to deny myself?" and "I think I earned it."

I lopped off his email address because I'm nice.

Laurel

All my relations: Oyate!! Kola!!

I am fully aware of the "Warrior" statement and what is attempting to say. The appropriation of an sacred spiritual tenet and or ceremony for profit is just dead wrong regardless of the culture that surrounds it. It is sacrilegious plain and simple. So I agree with the basic premise. I am also aware that Chief Arvol Looking Horse issued the same sort of proclamation not to long ago which had more to do with out and out racism in reverse. I understand where he was coming from, I just think he is wrong. That the owner of The Sacred C'anupa do this surprised and even shocked me. Black Elk himself would have been rolling over in his grave to learn of this. His vision was one of inclusion not of separateness. However: I have been in contact with many Native elders who disagree with Arvol's point of view and go about teaching and doing ceremony in a sacred manner and walking their talk. As a matter of course many Native elders and teachers and Tribal Councils have not endorsed either proposals from the parties concerned. No one not even The Pope owns any sacred truth. The one that holds a sacred truth is the one who holds it in his/her heart. Skin color or blood quantum does not give anyone the right to control spiritual discipline..

As for myself, I was told at an early age that I had Native blood in my veins though that side of the family is attempting to hide the truth. There is another tenuous connection on the Native side as well. I have "felt" different from the time of my birth and I broke with "White" religion many years ago. I remember being fascinated with Native geometrical designs. Then several years ago I had several experiences that can only be described as Native American Spiritual visions and happenings. Those experiences put me on "The Good Red Road" and even changed my life and literally saved me from suicide. I am a sincere spiritual person and I am not out to exploit Native Spirituality or run a Sweat or do healings or be a Wakan Wic'as'a or anything of the kind. I have danced at Powwows and been included in many Native ceremonies. I was honored to be accepted everywhere I went. I have Been to Sundance in Pipestone Minnesota, where I was gifted several blocks of Pipestone which I then carved into pipes, one given away, and the other are a ceremonial pipe to be brought out later and a personal one. Who am I to deny myself this gifts of Creator?

I am merely following the intent of Wakan Tanka as I continue down the Red Road. I am honored to be on this road. I have been gifted an Indian name and I think I earned it. I offer this in Peace and in Love

Mitakuye Oyasin; WA DO: MEGWIITCH; GO NEH!! Wowagha; Man Sky Hawk

[Al's Note: Title changed to add the name of person being researched.]

[educatedindian]

When I saw the name Pope, I thought it was too much of a coincidence to be that Pope family. Still a lot that isn't clear, but Jerry Pope has apparently had some accusations against him for associating with a possible fraud.

http://www.indianz.com/board/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=15449
Keely: I had also heard from a former Police officer from the state of Ohio that he came upon Jerry Pope with a young girl of about 13... the young girl was nude, Jerry was not "nude" but the officer made his presence known, Jerry began to fumble (the officer believed it was his pants zipper" exclaiming "This is not what you think it is!!"

Thoms wife, has claimed in the past that she and Jerry Pope are as brother and sister... I am sure Thom would like to see a sworn statement about his "adopted" brother in law??

----
Earlier in the thread they discussed "Dark Rain Thom".
----
Keely: Dark Rain Thom, thats what she calls herself, and never does she tell anyone her birth name... she like so many other frauds always avoid that family name or family information... why? Because, now with computers and online access, one can either prove them right or prove them frauds.... Genealogy is not such a hard thing after all...

I got an email, someone went to public marriage records and looked up James Thom's marriages... and there he is, married to one Mari Silveous... date of marriage, May 28, 1984... it was his second marriage, and they married on his birthday...

Does she think she can hide forever? AAhhhhh no.... in fact, once she is dead, her birth information is public, she no longer has rights... but I hope to find more information on her before she dies, so that it can be put forth to everyone who ever believed in her...

Mari told Don Greenfeather, that her former husband beat her on her head, and she cannot remember "all her grandmother taught her".. what a nice try to avoid questions she did not have answers to...

One question I am sure she has not had "beaten" out of her is: What is your Indian family names??

I ask everyone here, who comes across these people who are frauds, trying to avoid using their real names
----
And also...
----
Keely: Thom should be concerned though... his wife has been known to be a huge part of the former URP/URB group out of Ohio, that group was forced to remove their claim of being state recognized, they got into some trouble with the State of Ohio for making this fraudulant claim  It has been documented that this group did have convicted child molestors involved, and that females of all ages were REQUIRED to be nude from the waist up... now I sure would not want my daughter around convicted molestors, and certainly not partially nude!

----
Another thread at Indianz.

http://64.62.196.98/board/post.asp?method=ReplyQuote&REPLY_ID=313583&TOPIC_ID=15064&FORUM_ID=5
Originally posted by skote

Well....

From what I hear the Caverns are ready to be foreclosed on thanks to Jerry Pope's embezelment of some money, but nothing solid on that, now from what I hear they are changing their name to the true east of the river shawnee nation or some such thing. It's a group that does have some good people with good hearts and even some legit descendants, they just been lead way down the wrong path! All I can say is a split with Jerry Pope is a good start.
----
Keely: i doubt anyone connected with the urp/urb has any legit claim to the shawnee... i have done popes genealogy, and there is no indian blood there at all, and i used the information he himself provided.

----
Yet another thread at Indianz.

http://www.indianz.com/board/post.asp?method=ReplyQuote&REPLY_ID=151160&TOPIC_ID=6857&FORUM_ID=5

skote:
Here is another one for the list... especially for anyone from Ohio...

Jerry "Hawk" Pope leader of the infamous Shawnee United Remnant Band of Ohio.

I was watching a Robert Mirabal special on PBS and noticed one of the people he had working with him on Spirit was non other than Jerry Pope, a full blooded German who claims to be a descendant of a Shawnee named Thickwater... absolute B.S.

He's been duping people in Ohio now for many years into "joining his group" One of my cheif ambitions for moving back home is to put an end to Jerry's run here in my people's homeland!
-----

Again, all this is still needing more research. Keely has been known to let her anger get the best of her.

So this is moved to Research Needed.

[frederica]

Keeley pretty reliable though in her information. Unfortunately that group/tribe has I believe has State recognition in Ohio, unless it's been taken away. It looks shady, but has never been pinned down.

[Laurel]

Eek--and here I thought I had picked some random nut.  Scary stuff.  The site of responses is several pages long--I wonder how many predators have posted similar apologetics there?

Laurel

[Needs More Caffeine]

I'll be following this thread closely.  One of Pope's associates, Dark Rain Thom (his sister?), gives me serious heebie jeebies.

The Indiana Native American Indian Affairs Commission had a town hall meeting in my college town this weekend, sponsored by the Native student groups.  Among other things, they said Indiana is going to introduce  criteria soon for state recognition SOON.

Some of the commissioners are great people (members of real tribes), but some are new agers or worse.  Thom is one of the new agers on the commission.  (I felt gross just having been in the same room with her.  Sick woman had the gall to complain about new agers, too.)

Obviously, with people like Thom on the commission, the recognition criteria could include groups like Thom's/Pope's "tribe."  Just wanted to let you know that, anything you find out in regards to Thom and Pope, it would be good to get her off that commission.  Just being on it gives her and Pope credibility to speak for Indians.

I am really angry--we hoped for help from the commission to push my university to meaningfully include American Indians in diversity initiatives, and we want to support the commission in the useful work that it does.  But seeing the newspaper coverage run laden with quotes from her (and totally ignoring the local people) and her picture really made me realize one new ager could hijack the event and use it to her own advantage.  Her presence makes future work with the commission difficult for us because we don't want to be associated with frauds or give them credibility.   I hadn't known she would attend this town hall meeting or we would have seriously rethought hosting it. 

I guess this isn't a very helpful post, but pinning these people down for what they are is important and anything you find out could make a difference in getting Thom off that commission (and, consequently, ensure that any state recognition in Indiana doesn't include Pope's group).   

[educatedindian]

There's plenty of information that both the Thoms know very little about what they're talking about. They keep getting the most basic information wrong. For example, they promote the myth of Tecumseh falling in love with a white woman and refusing to ever marry an NDN woman.

But I don't see any sign of them selling ceremony or cheating people of money, though it's quite possible they'll divert state money to their group. I did see Keely mentioning a number of times that there are many abusive people in the Thoms' group. Perhaps the best thing would be to contact Keely? Perhaps she could help get hold of police reports, etc.

[educatedindian]

I don't have any more on the Thoms, but someone did pass onto me these items on the URB and Pope.

-----

http://64.62.196.98/board/post.asp?method=ReplyQuote&REPLY_ID=313583&TOPIC_ID=15064&FORUM_ID=5

john_mohdom     Posted - 08/11/2005 : 9:31:41 PM

    quote:Originally posted by skote

    Well....

 From what I hear the Caverns are ready to be foreclosed on thanks to Jerry Pope's embezelment of some money, but nothing  solid on that, now from what I hear they are changing their name to the true east of the river shawnee nation or some such thing. It's a group that does have some good people with good hearts and even some legit descendants, they just been lead way down the wrong path! All I can say is a split with Jerry Pope is a good start.

-----

john_mohdom     Posted - 08/02/2005 : 11:30:54 PM

thanks...it's not the first time I've heard ex"members" disallusioned with that group. I'll do a little searching around and see what I come up with...thanks for the heads up.

both their 'official' URB web site and the Zane Caverns site appear to have been down for some time. Rumor has it they ousted Pope last year. ...nothing public to confirm or deny that yet.

-----

http://forum.americanindiantribe.com/viewtopic.php?p=10554&sid=aa7983eabd7ddfbe70498e581c107f8f

somedudenohio
PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2006 1:13 am   

Yeah too bad for hawk poop !
you see some of his "artwork" he had for sell on the website ?
I thought some f it was kinda petaphilish young nakid girl called mothers treasure and draw pictures of topless women. I'l be nice and say hawk poop was a good artist , but his choices of his drawings are just too piggish for me.
did ya know Dick Celeste signed that little paper to give them same recognition as a state park. - I asked the govenors office about it via the phone they tried to blow me off till i sent them a copy of that document the urb had on their website. they told me dick celeste signed it , they finally admitted it. just like they are finally admitting other "tribes"they state recog. through out the 70's and 80's pretty pathetic, they will state clarify any one who looks like a ndn off a john wayne movie .

----

I added quotes to make it clearer that Beaderman is responding to Pope's article.

http://beadermansdealings.blogspot.com/2007/01/urb-is-desperate.html
URB is desperate

From the pages of : http://www.zaneshawneecaverns.net/donations.shtml

"An Appeal for Help

Shawnee People Cannot Buy, Sell Or Trade Land
We were prevented from the selling of half of our land so that we could pay off the other half of our land for nearly 3 years.
It took a Judge to finally end that. We have a seasonal business and it’s the beginning of winter now. We need the help of good people that can see how unfairly we have been treated.
We need your help to get through the winter. Your contribution no matter how large or small will make the difference between losing the land we’ve fought to keep or not.
For the whole story please continue to read as it will tell you in more detail what we have and are going through at this point."

Now this is pathetic! but wait it gets even more pathetic!

"We are the People of the Shawnee Nation United Remnant Band.We are making this appeal directly to the American Public.
We need your help to keep from losing the last of our land."

See told ya should of listen huh ??
If they are losing their land ok , then i'm kinda sorry to hear that. But I ask you to look at it this way , they are a business. When a business is losing its investment , what does that say , BAD business management!

"All my life I have heard good people say how sorry they are that the American Indian have had almost all their land taken away. I believe that. Good People also say that this all happened so long ago before their time.
I used to believe that too.
Well this is what is happening to our Tribe in Ohio RIGHT NOW, in 2006."

Ok tribes lost their lands it happened, sad to say , but it did.
Ok I'll retort .. BAD BUSINESS MANAGEMENT!

"We have done everything we have been told to do by the Lawyers and Bankers and Land Title Underwriters and still are not being allowed to sell half of our land to save the rest. Every attempt took considerable time and we have been at this for 3 years now. It is very difficult not to believe the great length of time this has taken was not intentional. We have a seasonal business on our land and winter is coming.
It is not too late to help us save the little land we have left. I cannot count how many times I’ve heard it would have turned out differently if I’d been there. Well this is happening in our time and you can help make this turn out right.

We were recognized by the Legislature of the State of Ohio as a descendant Tribe of the Historic Shawnee Nation, in 1980. Sub AM. H.J.R. 8. We are listed by the Bureau of Indian Affairs as a State Recognized Tribe in Ohio.
We receive no money or services from the State or Federal Governments of any kind."

These are lies!!! lie lie lie!!!

"We are a 501-C-3 tax exempt entity and can receive donations. Send your tax exempt donations thru our donations link."

Don't waste your money! Take your money to another worthy cause..this is a failing business and it will go under. sloppy mis managed funds and a business by nickle and dime people that really believe they are ndns!

"I warmly invite you to visit Zane Shawnee Caverns and take a step back in time. Witness for yourselves an historic Shawnee village and 1800’s era pioneer village and trading post. Tour the underground caves and browse the gift shop. Visit the museum and learn about Ohio’s early Shawnee and our state’s history. Spend some time with Mother Nature while camping at our rustic campgrounds or in one of our cabins or RV spots. Walk the grounds of our ancestors and visit the ancient Shawnee Marker Tree.
Thank you in advance for you time and consideration,
Chief Hawk Pope"

Yep your welcome Jerry Pope... and thank you for making your admitted lies so easy to show.

Besides I wouldn't waste my time to visit the ZANE CAVERNS! why would me or any one with any sense want to make you and your lunatic followrs rich , not me , I give what money I have to REAL Native Nations , who really appreciate the donations so they can feed their elders and cloth their kids.

This sure is the lowest "whoa with me" " I've fallen on hard times" story I ever read or heard about.

Really Jerry .. its pathetic...

Oh .. one more thing..
anyone involved with the Shawnee URB Nation is not Shawnee or any other ndn at all ! they are :
phonies, liars, cheats, frauds, snake-oil salesmen, weirdos, and jackasses.

I CHARGE THESE GROUPS OF
Creating Identity at Indian Expense: Public Ignorance, Private Gain
SEE RELATED LINK: http://beadermansdealings.blogspot.com/2006/12/creating-identity-at-indian-expense.html

[TheRebel]

Shawnee URB Press Release

SHAWNEE NATION, UNITED REMNANT BAND OF OHIO STRIKES BACK
Concerning the Validity of State Recognition of the Shawnee Nation, United Remnant Band of Ohio
 
A press release on the website of the United States Mint dated October 31st stated,
 
 “ The United States Mint is offering a refund of $130 to persons who own the 2004 United States Mint Lewis and Clark Coin and Pouch Set, if the pouch was produced by the Shawnee Nation, United Remnant Band of Ohio.  The U.S. Mint has learned that neither the state nor Federal authorities recognize the Shawnee Nation United Remnant Band of Ohio as an official Indian tribe.  Therefore, the pouch is not an authentic American Indian arts and crafts product.
 
Leo Jennings, spokesperson for the Ohio Attorney General’s Office mis-spoke (maliciously or not) concerning the worth of the State Recognition of the Shawnee Nation, United  Remnant Band of Ohio (Joint Resolution SUB.AM. H.J.R. 8, 1980).  The Attorney General’s Office claims this document has no legal bearing (is not a serious document).  This recent unjustified attack falls somewhere in the general area of liable/slander/defamation of character.
 
According to the Ohio Legislative Service Commission, Chapter 5, titled “Enacting Legislation???, there are two categories of major documents that embody the work of the General Assembly.  They are resolutions and bills.  Resolutions, generally, are formal expressions of the opinions and wishes of the General Assembly and do not require the approval of the Governor.  There are three types of resolutions: Joint, Concurrent and Simple.  Joint Resolutions are used only to ratify proposed amendments to the U.S. Constitution, to call for a federal constitutional convention, or when required by custom or a statute.  For example, proposals seeking to amend the Ohio Constitution are customarily offered as Joint Resolutions.  Joint Resolutions require the approval of both Houses and after approval must be filed with the Secretary of State.  How could anything be more serious than that?  Unlike the other two forms of resolution (Concurrent and Simple) which amount to a commendation or congratulation for a group or event of interest to one or both of the Houses of the Legislature, the Joint Resolution is the form of resolution that carries legal merit. 
 
Beginning in 1979, the Ohio Legislature’s Interstate Cooperation Committee held hearings to determine if the Shawnee Nation, United  Remnant Band of Ohio had a good enough case for state recognition to put such resolution before the House and the Senate for a vote to adopt the joint resolution.  The submission of maps, genealogy, documents, photographs, tribal rolls, etc. was part of the hearings process.  Testimony supporting the case was also given by tribal members, the Ohio Historical Society, and the Legislative Review Commission.  The rough draft was read in the committee hearings repeatedly, discussed, altered and finally emerged as Substitute Amended House Joint Resolution 8.  Then it was voted on in the Ohio House of Representatives, which passed, and then voted on (unanimous) in the Ohio Senate and passed. It was finally adopted as a House Joint Resolution to recognize the Shawnee Nation, United  Remnant Band of Ohio as the descendents of the original historic Shawnee Nation.
 
The Joint Resolution to recognize the Shawnee Nation, United Remnant Band of Ohio has clearly been mis-defined as being one of the lesser forms of resolution.  The Ohio Attorney General is required to know the difference between the three types of resolutions and his ignorance of legislative process has caused The Shawnee Nation, United Remnant Band serious harm.   The Attorney General’s recent erroneous statements about our State Recognition have caused the United States Mint to recall small beaded pouches made by our tribal crafters for the Lewis & Clark Commemorative Coins and Pouch Set and has served to defame and humiliate our good people.
 
The U.S. Mint is not without responsibility in this matter.  They did not even speak to us before making erroneous statements and acting in such a damaging and irresponsible manner.  As a side note of interest, recognition of any kind (state or federal) was NOT REQUIRED as per the contract the U.S. Mint signed with the Lewis and Clark Circle of Tribal Advisors of which The Shawnee Nation, United Remnant Band was a member at the time.  Does anyone yet read their own laws and legal contracts before they act to do harm to anyone?
 
The Indian Arts and Crafts Board is part of the Department of the Interior.  The Department of the Interior was the primary U.S. Governmental entity that interfaced with the whole Lewis & Clark effort and was fully supportive of the Circle of Tribal Advisors (which at that time the Shawnee Nation, United Remnant Band was a member and in good standing) and their actions.
 
The Bureau of Indian Affairs is also part of the Department of the Interior and has been fully aware of our State recognition and did so acknowledge in a letter to U.S. Congressman Tony Hall.  The letter is dated May 16, 1986 and states, “We did receive on March 25th, 1980 a copy of the resolution granting state recognition for the group.  We acknowledged our receipt of the state’s resolution on April 4th, 1980.  Copies are available upon request from the Shawnee Nation, United Remnant Band.
 
Governor Richard F. Celeste (governor at that time), in a letter to the Shawnee Nation, United Remnant Band stated “on behalf of the citizens of the state of Ohio, I would like to congratulate you on the occasion of the third anniversary of official state recognition of your tribe as the Shawnee Nation???.  This letter is dated January 29, 1984; copies are available upon request from the Shawnee Nation, United Remnant Band.
 
The erroneous statements of the Ohio Attorney General’s Office, the United States Mint and the Indian Arts and Crafts Board feels to us like a joint effort to slander and defame the Shawnee Nation, United Remnant Band.  We wonder how much this may have to do with Ohio’s fear that the Oklahoma Shawnee will manage to establish a casino in Ohio, or perhaps our ability to use past treaty deficiencies to bring action against the state legally.  We have no such present intention nor do we desire to support like action.
 
However, we are seriously considering legal remedy to the irreparable harm done to our good name and reputation.  At the very least, on behalf of the people of the Shawnee Nation, United Remnant Band, I demand a complete retraction of the lies stated and also demand an apology in the media from the Ohio Attorney General’s Office, from the United States Mint, and from the Indian Arts and Crafts Board. 
 
Chief Hawk Pope, Principal Chief
Shawnee Nation, United Remnant Band of Ohio

Just to let you know this is a jerry pope press release so don't be so inclinEd to believe every thing he blabs on about..

By The Way

SCORE ONE FOR THE US MINT!! 

Things are really looking rough for this cult especially when their leader has to write a plea on their website to ask or beg for donations from the public.
Classic examples of snake oil sales men down on their luck to make a buck.

[TheRebel]

 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VJ-pGbgoW30
Youtube version of jerry popes call for help for money donations.
 

[frederica]

The Ohio Attorney General's Office say they do not have recognition. And as far as I can find the State does not have a general criteria for State recognition.

[TheRebel]

The Ohio Attorney General's Office say they do not have recognition. And as far as I can find the State does not have a general criteria for State recognition.

You are absolutely  correct!  All they have like many other groups in Ohio is made up documents to fool the ignorant. It worked though,fooled a-lot of people and even their own members.

[TheRebel]

If you haven't checked their so called website..

http://www.zaneshawneecaverns.net/PressRelease.shtml

Check out the press release. Jerry just can't stop lying out of his butt and on top of that look at the scanned in images below his rant.

See the madness will never stop. This shows how desperate and dumbfounded they are , take a silly piece of paper from the state that recognized ceremonially and turn  it into a state recognized paper.

 GO Figure! then again its Jerry's M.O.

 

[earthw7]

Keely-I never tattle on people who are trying to help  There were some who thought you lived in Indiana, (I could not remember where you lived or even if you had said where) but was not highly concerned over how you felt about this situation... the people really did not "lie" about you... they just thought you taught at the same university at Thom, and never stated such as fact... and it was made clear they were not sure... Sorry if I did not make that clear in my last post...

Thom should be concerned though... his wife has been known to be a huge part of the former URP/URB group out of Ohio, that group was forced to remove their claim of being state recognized, they got into some trouble with the State of Ohio for making this fraudulant claim  It has been documented that this group did have convicted child molestors involved, and that females of all ages were REQUIRED to be nude from the waist up... now I sure would not want my daughter around convicted molestors, and certainly not partially nude! But I had also heard from a former Police officer from the state of Ohio that he came upon Jerry Pope with a young girl of about 13... the young girl was nude, Jerry was not "nude" but the officer made his presence known, Jerry began to fumble (the officer believed it was his pants zipper" exclaiming "This is not what you think it is!!"

Thoms wife, has claimed in the past that she and Jerry Pope are as brother and sister... I am sure Thom would like to see a sworn statement about his "adopted" brother in law??

Thom wants to screw around with me... he done barked up the wrong Indian...

I have learned that he and his wife do have a horse ranch, what breed of horses I am not sure.. but Arabians are the most expensive horses to show, and promote..

[NanticokePiney]

I have learned that he and his wife do have a horse ranch, what breed of horses I am not sure.. but Arabians are the most expensive horses to show, and promote..

 Most of the high dollar Arabs are syndicated and corporate owned but there is a lot of small backyard breeders since the market crash and many Arabs going through the small auctions now since breeders are losing their shirts.
  It is very expensive to own any horse ranch though, and since there is no profit in horses any more most ranch owners, unless independently wealthy, have alternate sources of income.

[earthw7]

Who is Dark Rain Thom? Thats a question a lot of people have been asking for a very long time. We will get to this right now through sources that are indeed reliable.

That said, had DR came out and just stated she was just a Historical Fiction writer, I wouldn't have a problem. But she lied about it all, and has no native blood at all. But she goes around pretending to be native in order to make a mint, and writing such ignorant crap like "Shawnee women in the frontlines fighting naked in battles"...HUH? I am sure if that was true, it would have been noted somewhere by someone at the battle/battles. But because she lies about her family being her "teachers", their are people who buy into it as fact and have quoted her books as being "wonderful work."

Do you feel butterflies in your stomach DR?

I heard from friends of mine who have ran into her that she, out of the spotlight, has Gray Hair and pale skin, but when she walks out for whatever presentation her skin is dark and her hair is jet black.

Wouldn't surprise me there is temporary 3 min hair dye and instant tan now days.

When I was doing the Pope work, an elderly woman in Indiana was working with me to get records, when Pope found out, he threatend this elderly woman... her home was broken into and her papers gone through, she felt that this was Pope's goons seeking the information about Jerry... I took over and told Pope if he thought he was man enough, he could come after me....

Uh-oh! back in the western days thats known as calling somebody out. But you should see now why these groups like URB and the others should be abolished.

Our tribe has been after Claudias information for a long time. Years ago I did Jerry Pope, her former side kick buddy... we traced the Pope family back to Baden Germany... no Indians in his tree... We always knew Claudia was a fraud. It was finding that one link, who her grandparents were, having parents names is a help, but I prefer grandparent names. Claudia has always tried to hide who her family is... she has done this because she knows she is a fraud.

OOps!!!!

I have been in contact with Claudias family and have assured them I am not playing any games with them. Claudias game has gone on for too long. She is a culture vulture.

Double OOps!!!


Well lets take a look at what Claudia {DarkRain} has been talking about over a roots web , this should be interesting! ! LOL!!

"I too am very interested in the Montana Cahill clan. I have found a branch of Cahills also in South Dakota that intrigues me because over 30 names listed in the index are the same as one of my lines from Ohio. I Bhad a grandfather Henry Cahill who traveled a great deal all over the world. We know of 2 other families he had and I am very curious about these western Cahill's. It is known he "coyboyed" there last 1800's and early 1900's. I would be delighted to share my information with other branches of related Cahill's I have been searching our branches since 1968."
"I have an ancestor who changed his name to Cachel Boring from Sylvester Cahill. I have yet to find ANY records of his death or burial place. He was a Civil War soldier from Ohio. He lived near Waverly, Omega and Higby. any further information would be greatly appreciated, been searching for him for 40 years."
"I am curious about the clarification that these Cahill's were white. I have seen other genealogical related lines make that declarations also, but that was in the 1830's when people were making a "determination" to be recognized as Indian or White, many were listed as mulatto on the census because of their dark skin and black hair. Just curious. Thanks."
http://boards. rootsweb. com/authorposts. aspx?uname= claudia+cahill&uid=&uem=dbQO5DfVV888K0K Dv-0QVD&rurl=http%3a% 2f%2fboards. rootsweb. com%2fsurnames. cahill%2f13. 51%2fmb.ashx

Yeah I know , not that interesting but wait..Trust me Dark Rain or Claudia is not so bright.

"I have an ancester, Gottlieb/Gottleib Schwarz/Schwartz who came from Baden. or Prussia..(.I apologize I do NOT know my German geography), he arrived in America around 1846 and lived in Pike County, Ohio with his 3 children; Henry b-June 1835, Carl b-1840, and Teresa b-1844. There has been no mention of his wife, and I have no information as to the ship they arrived on nor their exact location in Germany. They lived in Waverly, Ohio on Prussia Pike with other German families. If this is your line I have more to share. In any response please mention genealogy or I won't open it. There were 2 Carl Schwartz in the same unit in the Civil War...one had a mother in Florida. Upon examining their photographs I am convinced they are the same person...
hope this helps some."
"I am interested in Cahill's of West Virginia...I have a Denis Cahill who married in Berkley Springs about 1806. Any one with West Virginia connections I would love to share some information. "
http://boards. rootsweb. com/SearchResult s.aspx?db= mb&gss=ancMB&hc=10&rank=0&adv=&p=&csn=&cst=&gskw=ClanGeah&_F00029CB=&_F00027E2=&period=&_80004003=&_F0002BF1=

"Going by an e-mail from Claudia Cahill Thom to Charlotte Whalen (4/29/2002) Ernest was murdered by a Lawhorn son other than one who's mother was Mary French."
http://worldconnect .rootsweb. com/cgi-bin/ igm.cgi?op= GET&db=dcmolder&id=I24176
http://worldconnect .rootsweb. com/cgi-bin/ igm.cgi?op= GET&db=lizcolestock&id=I6286

Gottlieb Schwartz in the 1800's...."Stonebur ner" which was actually Steinbrenner
http://worldconnect .rootsweb. com/cgi-bin/ igm.cgi?op= GET&db=aubreys_tree&id=I020

Now to prove Dark Rains real name is Claudia Cahill.

http://archiver. rootsweb. com/th/read/ CAHILL/2003- 09/1062799449

From: ClanGeah@aol. com
Subject: Re: [CAHILL] Re: Two Laura Cahill's in Ohio
Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2003 18:04:09 EDT

Randy I am a distant cousin..what was John's middle name? You used the
initital W. I have found his younger brother Henry's middle name.in an obscure
record but not John's.


I believe you knew my parents who lived in Las Vegas Nevada. I knew both your
grand mother Laura and your Mom and Dad.
Claudia Cahill-Thom



Naomi Boyd Cahill (Social Security)

NAOMI L CAHILL     04 Mar 1925    01 Jun 1995    89101 (Las Vegas, Clark, NV)    (none specified)    286-24-0517    Ohio
Henry Cahill (Social Security)...
Henry CAHILL     

   
    Birth Date:    8 Nov 1887

   
    Death Date:    Jan 1969

   
    Social Security Number:     302-03-9428

   
    State or Territory Where Number Was Issued:     Ohio


    Death Residence Localities

   
    ZIP Code:    45601

   
    Localities:     Brownsville, Ross, Ohio

    Chillicothe, Ross, Ohio

    Hopetown, Ross, Ohio

    Kinnickinnick, Ross, Ohio

    Maple Grove, Ross, Ohio

    Massieville, Ross, Ohio

    Metzger, Ross, Ohio

    Mooresville, Ross, Ohio

    Pleasant Valley, Ross, Ohio

    Tucson, Ross, Ohio

    Vigo, Ross, Ohio

    Yellow Bud, Ross, Ohio

Cleo Cahill (Social Security)...
CLEO CAHILL     27 Apr 1920    Nov 1986    89101 (Las Vegas, Clark, NV)    (none specified)    271-14-3348    Ohio
Cleo CAHILL     

   
    Birth Date:    27 Apr 1920

   
    Death Date:    Nov 1986

   
    Social Security Number:     271-14-3348

   
    State or Territory Where Number Was Issued:     Ohio


    Death Residence Localities

   
    ZIP Code:    89101

   
    Localities:     Federal, Clark, Nevada

    Las Vegas, Clark, Nevada


More from DR's mouth ---

"I had a Grandmother who was Wyandot and was an herbal healer. Her Great Great Grandmother is buried in one of the mounds down there. "

Totally unlikely, not just because of the mounds, but I can find nothing on Cahill, Schwartz, or Boyd even suggesting Wyandot. Her mother's parents are still unknown, but still highly unlikely.

"On my Mother's side of the family, her father was a Cherokee. My oldest Aunt married a Cherokee medicine man. He was quite elderly when they married but I was privileged to be taught by him for several years. So, I have mixed blood. If you're looking at me, I have blue eyes from an Irishman back in the 1730s. I have absolutely no qualms about who I am or where I stack up in the stratosphere of tribal people because I know the culture I was taught. I know the religion I was taught. I know the traditions I was taught and I have always known who I am. My Great Grandmother as well as my grandmother and my Father always made sure that I knew who I was and who I came from. So, I have lots of teachings that I learned from all of them. "

She learned how to lie is about all she learned...The Boyd lines I can find in Ross County Ohio mention nothing of Cherokee. Earliest Boyd in Ross county traces back to Scotland to a James Boyd, b. 1718 in Kilmarnock Scotland, married to a Mary ?, b. 1720...most likely born in Scotland. Their son John Boyd was born in 1767, Uniontown, Fayette Co. Pennsylvania and married a Mary Smith b. abt. 1791, married in Hillsboro Ohio (where I was born). Daughter Catherine Boyd moved to the Ross Co. Ohio area, where quite a few other Boyd's later lived...most likely related.

Leoma/Leona Irene Cahill married 3 times, so the so-called Cherokee Medicine Man would be one of the three listed on the email I sent where I found Claudia's parent's (real) names and dates.

So that would be German, Irish, Scottish right?

"My Father was the one who was actually my spiritual teacher. We lived in a town about 90 miles away from my Grandmother, so we were down there two or three days a week because my Father supported them, and helped garden. He was my spiritual teacher; he taught me my place in the universe. We not only need to know who we are, but we need to understand our place in the universe. He's the one that helped me to understand my connection with what the other people would call nature, the other nations of creation. "

Interesting that she states her family made sure she knew who she "was" and where "she came from" while she is found online asking questions back almost 10 years ago concerning her ancestors and their race.
She knew her family tree included German, Irish, Scottish and English, along with distant Cherokee and Wyandot? But all the while she was growing up, she was unaware it was the Shawnee tradition she was being taught??

"At that time, it was still hazardous to your health for your neighbors to know who you were," she said. "They would burn you out once. The second time, they would kill you and your family. So they didn't tell children. You had to be mature before any of the elders would tell you."


WHAT???
She was unaware because it doesn't exist! LOL!!