General > Research Needed

Ashby's Faux Indian Odyssey

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Ashby, in her attacks upon me, as an unenrolled mixed blood, posted my husband's name, address, and phone number.
Ray had been quite ill for years, both physically and emotionally.
She then posted him as a domestic abuser and a predator.
He had pushed me, and I used that as an excuse to get him into counseling, and the help he so badly needed.
Court records are public records.
Ray was a very private, proud and generous person.
I made the mistake of telling him what was happening.
He was more fragile than I thought.
He committed suicide not long after that.
This past July 8th, I walked in and found him.
I think the harassment and the lies, the opening up of his most private life, all just too much for him.

Sorry to hear about your husband, you have my sincere condolences. I have not been able to read far enough back on alt.native to see why Ashby was attacking you, but she seems to enjoy being cruel. The people she is attacking at Snowbird have a reputation as helpers and i hope someone here with some time and good research skills can determine if the affadavits listed on Ashby's site have merit or not.

Sizzle Flambé:
Public documentation: <>

Note that despite being provided that link, Ashby insists Ray isn't really dead, and continues to attack "him" as well as Ms. RunningWolf.

Ironically, in another issue on her website, Ashby proudly asserted that "Being Virginians, we did not wish to mess with folks while they were grieving. You just don't do that in the South regardless of how much someone has offended you...".

She sure abandoned that principle when "messing with" Ms. RunningWolf while she was grieving.


--- Quote from: wolfhawaii on September 11, 2009, 05:31:15 am ---Sorry to hear about your husband, you have my sincere condolences. I have not been able to read far enough back on alt.native to see why Ashby was attacking you, but she seems to enjoy being cruel. The people she is attacking at Snowbird have a reputation as helpers and i hope someone here with some time and good research skills can determine if the affadavits listed on Ashby's site have merit or not.

--- End quote ---
Well, at first it was supposedly in "defense" of Bernard Red Cherries and Sal Serbin.  I had voiced an opinion on another blog about Sal Serbin.  Then she found a dreamcatcher that I supposedly made,
It is not mine,  I never use yarn, nor did I make those small ones.  The "legend" shown may have my name on it, the seller may have gotten another d.c. from my brother in law as she was married to him, but that tacky thing is not my work.  So she then attacked me on "selling" ceremony to poor misguided pagans.  The seller also stated I was Navajo.  I am not. 
Then it was my birth date.  I had a passport with my dad showing my dob as 1935, I also had a driver's license that my mother attested to my date of birth showing 1937.  My actual dob is 1940.
I went to a boarding school which took in Native children, mostly mixed bloods, and "wayward" teens.  It was funded partially from government funding, but mostly from donations.  I am sure most have seen the type of ads that go out asking for donations to church funded schools.
I choose not to name that  school, as that function has been long closed, and the organization now caters to upper middle class and  wealthy students.  I understand they are doing a good job, and why upset that?  It will not change  my life, nor will it bring back the dead.
I have refused to say what Nations my dad was affiliated with.  I have said  that in the past, and will not give her that information.  As I am not enrolled in either Nation, what would be the point of her calling the enrollment department?
These are her supposed points of contention.
Oh, then there is the issue with my husband.  I am not even going to go there.  Nor will I bring up the supposed "sock puppets". 


I am really sorry to hear of how seriously your husband may have been impacted by Betsy's seemingly pointless harrassment.
There already many examples of this in the thread on Enemies of NAFPS.

It's hard to know all the particualrs of a dispute that happened somewhere else, and I have only managed to read through part of this, but from what I read, Nora summed it up pretty well. Betsy is once again seeming to make a huge big deal out of some very minor things, and presenting a collection of evidence which doesn't necesssarily lead to the conclusion she reaches.

Betsy is also accusing Nora of pretending to be her own friends, and saying she has posted under various screen names for years. In some of these accusations Betsy posted links to the threads and long rows of numbers she says anyone with the intellegence of a snail darter would know proved this. Other times Betsy just posts the date and time of the posts so i'm not even sure if anyone could access them and apparently my own intellegence is less than a snail darter because it's all incomprehensible goobldy gook to me.

If Betsy thought Nora plays with sock pupppets, it would seem reasonable to alert people and point out the evidence, but to continue to pursue this and her other minor complaints like some serious criminal behavoir has occured seems really inappropriate.

It seems like maybe Betsy has a really hard time judging porportions and she can't tell the difference between what may be at worst a normal human personality quirk, and someone who is misrepresenting themself to wrongly gain a serious position of public trust.

For the record , here is an example of the type of harrassment that was going on...

--- Quote ---From: Guardian <>
Date: Fri, 3 Jul 2009
Local: Sat, Jul 4 2009
Subject: Re: Norah-Christine Runningwolf is BUSTED

Hello again  Runningwolf/James/Anuh1/Bravesheart
I did not want you or anyone else to think I had forgotten you....oh
noooooooooooo, far from it.

When you aligned yourself with a sexual predator, you gave yourself a
boost on my priority list. When someone sinks that low, I know
EXACTLY what I am dealing with, so I decided to do a deep dig.

I am still compiling megs of data into an understandable spreadsheet,
but I should have your Faux Indian page up by late next week.

I know what you have been doing on alt.native for at least TEN YEARS,
and you are one SICK PUPPY!

I read how you created, then killed off "Anuh1" ...that got you lots
of attention huh?  SICK!!!!
I also know that the "Bravesheart" posts were coming from your
location too.  You will be surprised at what an AOL network engineer
with 20 years experience can tell from a few little headers.  How
fortunate that I happen to know one  <BEG>

I am not going to waste time arguing with your sockpuppets on Usenet,
I am just going to put all the info on a website,  mass mail the link
to our entire mailing list, and let people see for themselves what a
MAGGOT you really are!

You will continue to attack me and spread lies about me.... I know
that.  It is the price of telling the truth about a LIAR like will spread yet more lies about me.  Like  DUH..that is all
on-line frauds like you do to create your characters.  You are
running  the Good Nic/Bad Nic scam, and I am going to prove it, once
and for all.

I have no intention of wasting my time responding to your many
sockpuppets.  I am going to spend that time exposing you for what you
really are...  a skanky, chicken hawk ANGLO PERVERT who has no morals
or values whatsoever!  I really do not care what people think of me,
but your willingness to use a sexual predator's "anonymous" website as
ammunition tells me EVERYTHING I need to know about you.  It also
guaranteed to you permanent spot on the web with the rest of the pervs
we have exposed.

I just wanted you to know your posts referencing "anonymous rumors"
about me, spread by a man who sold sex tours to Asia where raping
children is legal have insured that you and James/Bravesheart, etc.
will be publicly exposed as the fraud you are on  a domain that gets
about 1500-2000 hits a day.

--- End quote ---
My bold

To people reading this, it sounds like Betsy is saying Nora is personally affiliated with a pervert. 

Other posts reveal the person Betsy is accusing of being a pervert, is someone she calls Wheeler. (more on this below ) From stuff I read over on, it sounds like Wheeler created a webpage which made somes serious allegations against Betsy, and Betsy was accusing Wheeler of being a pervert. Who accused who first I don't know , but the sanity of everyone involved seems questionable, and IMO all of these allegations are about as credible as something you see written on the wall of a public toilet....   

Though I haven't found where this happened , it sounds like Betsy is accusing Nora of somehow republishing these accusations... However, even if Nora did this,  I'm not sure why Betsy would assume that Nora would somehow personally know the person who put up this website - or that she would know she was 'alligning" herself with someone Betsy had accused of being a pervert. From what i've seen of Betsy in action, there wouldn't need to be any logical connection at all...

Betsy makes it sound like Nora and her family were personaly involved with the person who created this website which makes serious allegations agaist Betsy, and that Nora and family were somehow actively supporting his alleged perverted activities.

Notice in this post, Betsy doesn't name Wheeler in what she is saying. She just repeatedly links Nora with someone she accuses of being a pervert.  As far as I know there is no logical reason to assume any personal relationship exists, but some readers could easily get the impression the alleged pervert is someone Nora is personally affiliated with ( such as her husband ) and not an to entirely different situation and person. This is especially true if Betsy was also posting information about a prior charge of domestic violence.

It's also clearly stated that the webpage Betsy is threatening to create, which would be dedicated to discrediting Nora and her family  as faux Indians, is being done in retaliation for Nora allegedly somehow mentioning the accusations against Betsy on this other website. It also sounds like Betsy was planning on using this alleged alligence to somehow make it sound Nora and her family are perverts. Otherwise why would Betsy call Nora a chicken hawk? 

This is a really serious accusation and according to my sense of right and wrong , would not at all be justified by Nora's alleged mention of some of the information on Wheeler's website, or any of the other seemingly trivial complaints Betsy has about Nora.

What seems totally goulish, is that while claiming to be justified in persecuting Nora and her family for somehow reposting these allegations, Betsy claims she hasn't had these seriously defamatory allegations against her removed from this website because she is intentionally using this as bait ....

--- Quote ---Guardian <>
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009
Local: Wed, Aug 5 2009

Subject: Re: Do any of you know of this person?
Oh, I might have also forgotten to mention that every time someone
reposts Wheeler'libel, it gives me (ie my attorney)  "John Doe"
Subpoena rights to their provider's identifying info for the account
libeling me.... in order to determine if the offender is worth suing.
If they are not worth suing, I can legally expose and confront the
people who hid behind what they thought were anonymous accounts to
defame me.

Now you know why Wheeler's website is still up.  ROFLUIPM
--- End quote ---

What kind of person thinks like this?

The only consistent concern I can see Betsy executing, is she tends to go after vulnerable unenrolled mixed blood people. ( even though enrolled Native people have repeatedly told Betsy that most of them are who they say they are)

Not everything in the links below would apply to betsy, but I did find some of it seems to describe her tactics exactly.

I'm thinking people who may feel unfairly harrassed by her might find some of this helpful.

I'm not a lawyer and I don't know if any of this would be relevent, or if any laws were broken , but I seem to recal Betsy saying sahe is in NC and it might be something to look into...

Seeing Betsy Ashby's tactics is like watching a train wreak and as she sort of claims to be doing the same thing we try to do here, it makes me want to try to explain the difference, and point out how she goes off the rails.

The nicest thing I can say about betsy is if she is sincere in wanting to do some good ( which at this point I doubt - but everyone can change ) she really needs to learn some better communication skills. If she is really exposing a liar, telling the truth in a gentle polite way will be humiliating enough . She doesn't need to call people names, or make an effort to punish and humiliate these people beyond simply telling the truth.

Just from what I have seen, it seems Betsy would improve her effectiveness if she could understand that presenting evidence (especially selected evidence) that supports a conclusion does not necessarily mean the conclusion is "the truth" . Usually evidence can be used to support several conclusions, and exactly how evidence should be interpreted can be debated from various angles. Ultimently, exposing people misrepresenting themself on line isn't about reaching a guilty verdict which  can be resolved by a jail sentence or some other imposed punishment. What we do here online can only resolve these problems by teaching people critical thinking skills and empowering people that it's OK to ask questions. From ALL angles.

Wolfhawaii, I think  your suggestion that some of us could go over some of Betsy's research is a good one. One problem is that I am not comfortable visiting her website or viewing anything she has posted (links or pictures) .

If someone could do a basic summery of the evidence she has posted, it's alleged source and her conclusions maybe some of us here could do some peer reviews of her findings.

I really do feel concerned Betsy is confusing the issues even more with her nasty, petty, personal attacks and by sticking stuff together to "build a case" that isn't really connected.

People who post in NAFPS make mistakes, but at least there is enough people involved here we don't all have the same biases, blind spots  and opinions and if someone gets off track in their personal interpretation , someone else is likely to challenge this by pointing this out.

Sorry this is so long, but i really do feel concerned about the damage this person seems to be causing...


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