NAFPS Forum
General => Frauds => Topic started by: Ingeborg on July 20, 2015, 04:51:14 pm
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Welcome to the forum. I'd be grateful if you were inclined to provide a short intro regarding your person, your background, and perhaps your tribal affiliation.
I do realise that I might come across as somewhat inappropriate, but the reason for my inquiry about which indigenous nation may claim you is due to some confusion caused by googling you.
On the one hand, you keep a blog in which you claim to belong to the Notoweega Nation:
http://thereddoorcasino.com/notoweega/index.php/about-us
The Notoweega or Norwards, also known as, Andatses, Hurons, Susquehannocks and Mingos, are an inter-tribal grouping of Southeastern tribes, that were one fire with the Delaware, Iroqouis, and warred Tutelo/Catawba/Saponi's of South Carolina and Virginia. The Notoweega consisted of mainly, the Cusabo(Wapoo), Nottoway, Shawnee(Showanose), Meherrins, Cherokee(Tsalagi), Delaware(Lenape), Conastogas, Tuscaroroa's, Mingo-Seneca and eventually the Tutelo, Saponi, Catawba.
On the other hand, there is also info like this one:
http://www.idlenomore.ca/anitsaguhi/tiny_american_indian_tribal_nation_involved_with_international_tribal_diplomacy
Sachem Laster of the Weapemeoc has been invited to attend and be a guest speaker at a conference of tribal leaders the next day.
Therefore I'd be glad if we got this slight inconsistency sorted out. Thank you.
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Ingeborg, you beat me to it! Lol. I had also googled Charles Laster and was going over the same material, thanks for posting all his info. There was one thing that seemed really odd, I looked at his academic back ground on his LinkedIn page and found that 2 of the schools he claimed a degree from are closed and out of business. Mid-Continent University and Paducah Community Colloge. West Kentucky Voc. Tech is still in business. What are the chances that 2 out of 3 colleges Charles Laster mentions are no longer in business.
Mid-Continent University
Bachelor of Business Administration (B.B.A.), Business Administration and Management, 3.5455
2010 – 2013
Paducah Community College
Associate od Arts with Distinction, Business/Commerce, General, 3.529
1982 – 1998
West Kentucky Voc. Tech.
Certified class I-II, Machine Tool Technology/Machinist, Certified
1986 – 1987
Completed a 2 year course in one year.
Activities and Societies: VICA Won the VICA competition my first year even though it was for 2nd year students.
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Thanks, Ingeborg.
That is very interesting what you discovered also, Diana.
I am not sure if Mr. Laster will come back here to answer your questions, Ingeborg, but when I saw the two NDN nations mentioned, I also found that he is listed as being on the Council & Administration of the Notoweega Nation. His photo, along with the other council members, is posted, but when you click on the photo, there is only the gobbledygook placekeepers you get when you have not completed the website, so I think the website is in its elementary stages.
http://www.thereddoorcasino.com/notoweega/index.php/confederacy-members-professors
Also, if you notice the website above, which is for the Red Door Casino, you will find all kinds of links for articles about how the casino was raided by Lucas County and the lawsuits resulting. The tribe was using this as a money-making venture and claims sovereign immunity.
Ohio BCI agents and member of the Ohio Investigative Unit spent about 4 hours seizing items from the Red Door on East Main Street in downtown Logan. The business owner says he is being unfairly targeted because he's a member of the sovereign nation.
"They have no right to enter our property. This is sovereign property. We are non-reservation Indians. We are operating a sovereign business," added Dancing Elk.
http://www.thereddoorcasino.com/notoweega/index.php/news/notoweega-news/item/334-ohio-ag-raids-hocking-co-casino-owner-claims-sovereignty
http://www.columbusceo.com/content/stories/apexchange/2013/08/23/magistrate-recommends-city-officials-be-added-to-lawsuit.html
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Mr. Laster, this is what you said in the Robin Denton thread:
I am one of the founding members of the IPUN, Indigenous Peoples United Nations, and we are not part of the UN.
The IPUN is registered with the UN as an international indigenous organization. That is a very simple matter to check as the UN site has a search feature for all registered organizations, but clearly someone did not take the time to bother searching.
http://www.newagefraud.org/smf/index.php?topic=4644.15
I cannot find your name on the Indigenous Peoples United Nations Facebook page anywhere, but this is what the Facebook page says about the history of the formation:
History of the Formation of the Indigenous Peoples United Nations:
When the traditional peoples of the Ottawa River Watershed saw that the land they steward was in real danger and under threat of commercial development, pipelines, uranium mines, and 24/7 logging in an original boreal forest, they had very little power to protect and steward their land. In response to this dire situation, their people sought help from business and security-experienced people who designed and developed the Indigenous Peoples United Nations with them. This has led to a very fast-tracked direct path to the United Nations. In order to take advantage of this historic opportunity, we are requesting your support through this letter of Intent for Membership.
https://www.facebook.com/IndigenousPeoplesUnitedNations/photos/pb.481489425360973.-2207520000.1437419586./481978141978768/?type=1&theater
What exactly is your relationship to IPUN? Are you one of the "business and security-experienced people" that the traditional people of the Ottawa River Watershed consulted with?
Also, the IPUN is not "registered with the UN as an international indigenous organization", but it is listed at the UN as an NGO (non-governmental organization, which "is a group whose members are individuals or associations"), so I think you need to get your terms right.
http://www.library.northwestern.edu/libraries-collections/evanston-campus/government-information/international-documents/igos-and-ngos
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Attached is a draft charter for the IPUN and Mr. Laster's name is not listed. Seems like a "founding member" would be listed. . .
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Charles Laster is of Cherokee decent and a published author on theology and physics under the pen name Little Feather. Charles has written on green technologies and engineering as well. Inventor of IRAM, and earthquake resistant masonry construction system.
(Bolding Mine)
http://themedes.org/?p=1360
I think this is from a dating website:
I am a Native American, Ex-Marine, Martial artist, I was a male stripper for 4 years, An armor and weapons buff with a small but interesting collection. I was a stagehand for 15 years. Working on concerts, movies, and plays was my love during that time, and I got to work with some of the best. My last gig was for the Rolling Stones on their Steel Wheels tour.
http://tagged.com/little_feather
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Prior link does not work due to my bolding of Little Feather.
http://tagged.com/little_feather
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He has also claimed that "Little Feather" is his "Native American Indian name".
http://www.toequest.com/forum/spacetime/1758-practical-spacewarp-design.html
Aireal and Arueal are also online names he uses.
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Weapemeoc Tribal Nation of Mayfield, Kentucky is the creation of Charles Laster.
http://www.academia.edu/11975781/History_of_the_Weapemeoc_in_Kentucky
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Oh, I don't know, Piff, if he created the Weapemeoc Tribal Nation, but he seems to be the only person who knows about it and has certainly written a lot.
Apparently, the tribe also intermarried with the Moors and he has a scimatar that has been passed down to him.
Submitted by Chief Charles Laster (United States), Aug 15, 2014 at 19:06
Greetings
I am the Herditary Chief of the Laster Tribe and I have the Scimtar the Moorish Ship captain gave to the Chief for his duagters hand in marriage.
In fact I owe my life to a member of the Islamic Branch of our tribe.
I am glad to learn that my tribe is remembered in the history of your people as well.
http://www.danielpipes.org/comments/217183
Soon the Weapemeoc would enter Islamic history as +The 1aster Tribe of 'er5uimans !ounty North !arolina-#Around 37?9 a %oorish Ship floundered off the coast of north carolina" and the crew too& refuge with their old allies the Weapemeoc# The ships captian was a nobleman from Tur&ey and he fell in love with the daughter of the %assasoit Sachem <'rinciple Sachem> 1aster II# The Tur&ish nobleman presented Sachem 1aster with his @amascus Scimatar as a gift for the daughters hand in marriage" as was the custom at the time# That Scimatar has been passed down from %assasoit Sacham to %assasoit Sachem of theWeapemeoc Tribal Nation from that time forward to the present day#(ecause the Ships !aptian was a nobleman" and married into the royal line of the tribe" he was entitled to start his own sovereign tribe" as part of the Weapemeoc# A number of his crew also married women from the tribes of the Weapemeoc" and they became the core of this new Islamic Tribe of our Nation#
(Sorry, that doesn't copy well for some reason)
https://www.academia.edu/12618636/The_History_of_Islam_and_the_American_Indian_Tribal_Nation_Known_as_the_Weapemeoc
This is an interesting comment he made on another site:
The “Laster Tribe” of Perquimans County N.C. in the 1700’s was most likely a Yeopim tribe that intermarried and was within that region and time. My Ancestor Peter Laster who arrived in Virginia 1666 may have been part of it.
http://nativeheritageproject.com/2012/06/16/the-tuscarora-eye/
He mentions his ancestor, Peter Laster, here:
1666
My ancestor Peter Laster arrived at Jamestown and bought land in the county of Isle of White on June 6 of that year. (page 511 from Cavaliers and Pioneers Abstracts of Virginia Land Patents and Grants 1623-1666 by Nell Marion Nugent, 1983.
http://www.academia.edu/4321210/History_of_the_Weapemeoc_Nation
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Autumn, I don't mean that he invented tribal peoples using that name, I mean Laster created a form of "The Weapemoac Nation of Mayfield, Kentucky". I could be wrong, but his claims don't look accurate, he makes quite a few big guesses. I doubt his scimitar story too. :)
I think he has stitched together his own personal colonial ancestry, inaccurate history, wishful thinking, with some facts in order to claim he is the sachem of a tribe.
Here is his "declaration of sovreignty":
http://www.academia.edu/10268159/Declaration_of_Sovereignty_Of_The_Weapemeoc_Tribal_Nation_January_1_2015
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I agree with you, Piff. His claims do not look accurate.
The one ancestor he mentions, Peter Laster, came over here from England in 1666, one of the "Cavaliers and Pioneers," and bought land in Virginia. But if I understand Mr. Laster's drift, his ancestor intermarried with the Weapomoac (or Yeopim) and ended up in North Carolina. He said that was in the 1700's. So he bought land in Virginia in 1666 and moved to North Carolina 34+ years later to become a member of the Yeopim tribe? I just don't get it.
This is the book he refers to when he mentions his ancestor:
http://www.lva.virginia.gov/public/guides/va14_cavaliers.htm
http://www.amazon.com/Cavaliers-Pioneers-Abstracts-Virginia-1623-1666/dp/0884901742
But, apparently, in 1750, when the Weapomoac intermarried with the Moors, that began the Laster Tribe of Perquimans County, North Carolina and the present chief of that tribe is Tecumseh Brown Eagle and he is a cousin of Charles Laster.
Because the Ships Captain was a nobleman, and married into the royal line of the tribe, he was entitled to start his own sovereign tribe, as part of the Weapemeoc. A number of his crew also married women from the tribes of the Weapemeoc, and they became the core of this new Islamic Tribe of our Nation. This Islamic Tribe of the Weapemeoc and their story was recorded by several historians who called them "The Laster Tribe of Perquimans County North Carolina". Over time some tribes of the Weapemeoc took in other tribes, and became tribal nations in their own right. The Islamic Laster Tribe is now part of the Sovereign Eire Mound Builders Tribal Nation of the Weapemeoc Confederacy. The chief of the Eire Mound Builders is Tecumseh Brown-Eagle. He is a direct descendant of the Laster line from the Islamic Laster tribe, and the cousin of Massasoit Sachem Charles A. Laster.
https://www.academia.edu/12618636/The_History_of_Islam_and_the_American_Indian_Tribal_Nation_Known_as_the_Weapemeoc
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Tecumseh Brown-Eagle, mentioned in the thread above, who supposedly is a cousin of Charles Lester, has a 25 page thread on NAFPS:
http://www.newagefraud.org/smf/index.php?topic=2137.0
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I believe the Laster Tribe was simply a community of people who were identified as mixed-race. They were named after the surname (including variations) of some or many of their community members.
There is doubt about whether they had NDN heritage:
https://books.google.com/books?id=PHXIeG6JyKEC&pg=PA280&dq=%22laster+tribe%22&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0CBwQ6AEwAGoVChMIkZ_mwaPrxgIViC-ICh0lwwMu#v=onepage&q=%22laster%20tribe%22&f=false
Charles Laster claims his group had to hide until 2014, according to his Declaration posted earlier.
As Autumn shows, Laster's genealogy claims don't make sense.
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His claims especially do not make sense when all other sources say that the Weapomoac are extinct.
When he says that he is the cousin of a notorious fraud, Tecumseh Brown-Eagle, who has been proven to have no NDN heritage, that should remove any doubt.
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Ingeborg
“@Autumn,
I just asked Mr Laster to provide an intro, because I am somewhat puzzled by differing tribal affiliations mentioned. Apparently, he is called a Weapemeoc in newer entries, but Mr Laster also keeps a blog in which he claims to belong to the Notoweega Nation.”
Sorry I don’t blog myself, I was added to a group that is with the Notoweega Nation as I am distantly related to several members of the group. Also I don’t approve of some of that tribes legal tactics, but not my place to say anything.
I am Man’toUghQueMend tribe of the Weapemeoc Nation, but like many, the blood of other tribes flows in my veins, my mother is Cherokee and I have distant relations in many tribes. Laster is a rare surname but found in tribe coast to coast, both recognized tribes and those not reognized.
I'd like to second Autumn's question: How come you claim Weapemeoc when they ceased to exist long time ago?
Furthermore, you weren't simply 'added to a group' - you joined yourself:
http://thereddoorcasino.com/notoweega/index.php/community/profile/998-chief-laster/about
Name:
Charles Anthony Laster
Timezone:
America/Chicago
Gender:
Male
Birthday:
24 Sep 1959
Address:
126 North xxxxxxx.
Mayfield
Kentucky
42066 United States
Mobile Number:
1270873xxxx
http://thereddoorcasino.com/notoweega/index.php/community/profile/998-chief-laster
Chief Laster just registered on the site 11 months ago
Have you been too busy these last 11 months to correct such an - errm: minor glitch as in what you are and what you aren't?
And you say you're 'distantly related' to some Notoweega? Apparently, they view you differently.
This is from their section "Council & Administration":
http://thereddoorcasino.com/notoweega/index.php/confederacy-members-professors
Council & Administration
Sachem Charles Laster
So far it seems you decided to have more than one horse in the race. As far as I've been told, tribal affiliation does not work that way.
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The academia.edu site does not allow for accurate copy and pasting unless you are signed in, so I'll upload copies of some of Charles Laster's work here. Sign in here at forum to view.
Declaration of Sovereignty
Of The Weapemeoc Tribal Nation
January 1, 2015
History of the Weapemeoc Tribal Nation in Kentucky
The History of Islam and the American Indian Tribal Nation
Known as the Weapemeoc
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Uploaded is obituary of Mr. Laster's father, from 27 October 2009, Paducah Sun newspaper.
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Just found the link and have not gotten to view much yet, give me a bit, seems to be a lot of posts already
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Ingeborg, Autumn.
Notoweega Nation:
Covered this in the other thread. I have some distant relation in that group and provided some minor business advice. Was not aware that they gave me a spot on their tribal web site for such minor assistance as a professor I assume, which I am not, as I am not a tribal member either.
Diana
Paducah Community College did not go out of business. Kentucky combined two-year colleges and Voc. Tech into one branch of the education system, and the name was changed. Records still there and available through West Kentucky Voc. Tech, which I also attended for machine shop at one time. It was a self paced course, and I was allowed in the VICA competition because I was close to graduation. I was able to complete it quickly only because I had been apprenticed as a gunsmith before enrolling.
Mid-Continent did go bankrupt, but my records are still available through Murray State University and other accredited universities they had a closing agreement with.
Autumn
“I cannot find your name on the Indigenous Peoples United Nations Facebook”
And you give the public page, the main working page is secret, sorry. And yes I am not listed, as I was not one of the original core group, and only brought in shortly before their charter signing. I am still trying to get up to speed with the group, its members and so on.
Here is what I said about the group’s history on the other thread.
“As to why I am investigating people directly involved with the IPUN, I need to give some background.
We are a tiny tribal nation, and are not seeking recognition by the BIA or any state. We have instead focused on international relations and we have spent considerable time building a relationship with tribes around the world.
The Zo Reunification Organization, ZoRO is one of our closest international allies. I was going to travel there in August to formally start an international alliance we had been discussing for some time.
A small group that also saw the need for such an international organization started the IPUN. They had political contacts, but little else. The UN wanted them to represent tribes from around the world before it would accept their charter, and they were not given much time to do it. So they started frantically searching the net for groups to contact. By chance they saw the ZoRO main site and my campaign to raise funds to speak at their conference in August.
Thus ZoRO and some of my other allies as well joined the IPUN with us before the charter was official signed. At the time of the Charter signing, 99% of the tribes and people represented were my allies, several hundred tribes representing around 1.25 million indigenous people. These were just the ones I could get to quickly before the UN deadline.
As a result we have become part of the core leadership of this newly formed organization, but I do not know these people that started the IPUN and have no history with them.
The IPUN members did not entirely trust me either. After all no one has ever heard of my tribe or nation, as we have been largely forgotten by historians. Only in the last few days have they started to address me by my title as Sachem."
I expected the members of this group to be equally suspicious of me, and I don’t blame you in the least for checking me out as well.”
Autumn
“Also, the IPUN is not "registered with the UN as an international indigenous organization", but it is listed at the UN as an NGO (non-governmental organization, which "is a group whose members are individuals or associations"), so I think you need to get your terms right.”
You are quite right, I should, especially here it seems where every word is examined, but as I said, I am still playing catch-up since joining the IPUN
Also if you read our history with the IPUN, you will see I am not with the traditional people of the Ottawa River Watershed or anyone they consulted with. Just a tiny tribal nation with some contacts to other tribal groups overseas, but we ere the first tribal nations and groups to be with the IPUN at the time of the charter signing.
Cherokee Descent:
Yes, my mother is Cherokee, my dad Weapemeoc, and I got a half a dozen other tribes in my blood, just like a lot of other Native Americans, and proud of them all.
Stage Hand:
Yes I was a stagehand IATSE Local 281, what is so unusual about that, my father was a union stagehand?
Little Feather:
Yes Little Feather was my tribal nickname in my youth, and I have used it for much of my life.
Piff
Congratulations on digging father back than anyone else so far on this thread, my hats off to you on that one.
After a severe heart attack I was unable to work and got interested in physics to pass the time, as well as some online RPG games, and various forums. Aireal and Arueal were two of the name I used at that time.
"His full name is Charles A. Laster. Here is his proposal for a new type of currency"
Piff, I know you don’t owe me anything, but can you remove this post. I was asked to take down copies by the IPUN while work is being done on that project, but Research Gate will not let me take it down.
The same info is found in this paper, with the name Wheel Money and no mention of the IPUN
https://www.academia.edu/6884274/An_Economic_Model_For_Native_Nations_Tribes
Please and thank you
Autumn
You found discrepancies in our history, and I am sure you will find more. Easy to explain if you care to listen.
When the Scimitar was passed down to me, my tribe was close to dead, and had only a few extended family who still cared anything about it left in West Kentucky. We had some oral stories and histories passed down and were called the Laster tribe.
I resolved to learn as much and record as much as I could before we faded away completely. By chance I meet remnants of the Yeopim tribe in North Carolina, and the Erie Moundbuilders who were also related to us, and their Chief knew the story of the Scimitar well. His grandmother was a member of the Laster tribe in NC recorded by historians in the early 1900’s.
Yes my distant cousin Tecumseh Brown-Eagle is quite eccentric, but family is family. I don’t agree with a lot of his views, and I doubt he agrees with all of mine.
Here is what little I know of his tribe. They are Algonquins from Erie region south to the Ohio, and probably only a few from any one tribe. The branch of the Laster Tribe mentioned by historians moved from NC to Detroit in the 50’s and joined them. Their tribal government is a strange mix of Islamic and Native traditions.
Also a few scatted people who still maintained their some identity were also found, and we slowly, along with historical records that matched out oral history, reconstructed what we could of the past.
How is this any different than a number of other tribes around the world devastated by colonialism and assimilation?
Piff
“I believe the Laster Tribe was simply a community of people who were identified as mixed-race. They were named after the surname (including variations) of some or many of their community members.”
That is probably the most accurate statement yet, and yes there is doubt about whether we had NDN heritage. We blended into society to hide and nearly died out due to assimilation from that choice. For most of the history of the US, being Indian was not a good thing.
But on that note, those same surnames are found in a number of tribes, unlikely that we would have married into so many tribes if we did not have some native blood in us.
Did I get our history right, I hope so, and did I make mistakes, probably.
However when we appealed to the Royal Family and the UK concerning our status with them, we had to go through a process similar to formal recognition in the US to prove our claim.
They found the sum total of the evidence convincing, and we got our ruling.
Am I a fraud, a well-intentioned idiot, or an eccentric nut case, that is for you people to decide?
In any event, if I can get indigenous peoples around the world united, their voice heard, and their rights honored, it will be worth it.
Because in the end, my tiny tribal nation, its history, and myself are insignificant compared to the fate facing millions of indigenous peoples around the world.
If you don’t think I should be involved with such an endeavor, please jump in and replace me, I could use the rest.
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Piff
Thanks for finding the obituary for my dad, been wanting that for awhile.
He was a good man and a father, but turned his back on the tribe and my grandfather, but with good reason. But you people probably don't care to hear my families history.
Still good work, you are one of the best at digging stuff up. Even I have trouble finding some of my old forum posts like you found :)
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Ingeborg
No I did not add myself to the Notoweega group, all that information was known to them, and it seems I can't remove myself from the page.
But thanks, now that I know about it, I will ask them to remove me or note I am not a member of their tribe
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Autumn
"all other sources say that the Weapomoac are extinct"
Well basically true. A handful of the Yeopim tribe left in NC, a handful of my tribe left in Kentucky, a few scattered people who still claim it.
Yea, basically we are almost gone. The same is true of most of the other Algonquin tribes of N.C.
We tried to adapt and ended up assimilating, sad but not uncommon.
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Hey everyone this is too funny I use to live in Paducah Kentucky
When I lived there my family was the only Native people except those
who always claimed that Cherokee blood,
Mr Lester I am Lakota/Dakota who lives on the reservation, a federally recognized tribe
I am Native and your father did not look native I bet you don't either
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Thank you for answering our questions -- so many others just comment once and then never come back to answer the issues we raise. I realize that the internet can only give a very limited picture of an issue but we do try here to get at the truth as best we can. Piff and Ingeborg are pretty amazing researchers also.
The rights of indigenous people is certainly a very complicated issue. How far back can you go to find the original indigenous people to make sure they have their rights enforced? That seems to be a never-ending search and when you are dealing with people who are so dispersed and so intermingled with colonizers, what really is to be gained? I really must admit I do not understand it.
Also, something I do not understand is your need to have a title and for people to recognize your title. Did you name yourself Sachem because there was no one else to claim the title? You have admitted that your tribe may very well be extinct and that you are a mixture of many, many tribes. I just do not understand your effort to re-establish an NDN Nation.
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Autumn
Thank you for your understanding and thoughtful post.
My grandfather was a Sachem, but a poor one. His lifetime saw some of the greatest losses of our scattered communities.
In the 50's people started moving from our small communities to the big cites for work. He felt, and was correct, that many would forget their past and assimilate. He tried to prevent it, but in the end could not stop even his wife from leaving him and moving to Detroit for work. He was already a drunk by this point.
He went to bring her back by force, my father, 16 at the time fought him. My father promised to never see him again or have anything to do with his tribe, and kept his word till he died.
By my time very few cared about the tribe and my grandfathers scimitar was passed to me, probably because no one else really cared about what it symbolized anymore.
I did not intend to rebuild the nation, only to record as much as I could before I too passed away. But I needed to find as many others in my extended family as possible that could shed some light on that history.
That effort rekindled their interest as well, and before long they again saw themselves as a tribe, and expected me to do something about finding other groups like us that may still be struggling to survive.
It was only after the colonial records of Virgina and North Carolina became available online that we could finally compare colonial history with our history.
One of our traditions was that we were, and perhaps still are, Subjects of the Crown of England. Colonial records confirmed this and so we approached the UK and the Royal Family concerning our status. We had to submit our evidence that we were in fact Subjects of the Crown, and remained loyal subjects during the colonial period.
They ruled were were in fact loyal Subjects of the Crown, but that type of citizenship had been abolished in the 40"s. As were were not located within the lands of the UK at the time, our citizenship was terminated at that point and we were no longer held by our oath of loyalty to the Crown.
What few people I represent don't care about formal recognition, we have nothing to gain really. We sold our land legally, so we don't have a land claim. We are so few and scattered, what good would a reservation do us anyway? None. Being landless outsiders, the US never needed to make a treaty with us to be broken. So the US does not owe us anything, and we don't want anything from them, perfect.
We have everything we want. Our history has been recorded, although we are still catching some mistakes and such as time goes on. We got our decision from the UK and the Royal Family, we don't really need anything else for ourselves. Would be nice to find a few other scattered groups like ours, if any survived this long.
So while I am a hereditary chief, albeit from a very unqualified line it seems, it was not a title I desired and my father refused.
None the less it has proved useful, for here as an example. I could have chosen any username, but I wanted one that would attract the attention of the members :) and I am deeply indebted for the research you did that I could not.
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I was going to post this the other day, but was sure someone else would have already done so. We have a post on that woman Marian dawn skyweaver here from 2012. Seems she's been at this for a while. Click on link below.
http://www.newagefraud.org/smf/index.php?topic=3878.0
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^THAT explains a lot about IPUN.
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Thanks Diana
You people dig up information so fast I can't process it all.
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I looked into Charles Laster's genealogy and went as far back to the 1860's, which would be his great, great, grandparents on his father's side. Guess what ALL WHITE. Here's their genealogy from Ancestry.com. Will be working on his mother's side soon.
Andrew D Laster in the 1940 United States Federal Census
Andrew D Laster
Age:
4
Estimated birth year:
abt 1936
Gender:
Male
Race:
White
Marital Status:
Single
Relation to Head of House:
Nephew's Son
Home in 1940:
Paducah, McCracken, Kentucky
Map of Home in 1940:
View Map
Street:
S-9th
House Number:
1441
Residence in 1935:
Same House
Sheet Number:
7B
Attended School or College:
No
Highest Grade Completed:
None
Neighbors:
View others on page
Household Members:
Name
Age
Margaret Weise 30
Agnes Toon 42
Holland Laster 28
Josephine Laster 24
Andrew D Laster 4
Here is Charles Laster's Grandfather Holland Laster in the 1920 census.
Holland Laster in the 1920 United States Federal Census
Name:
Holland Laster
Age:
8
Birth Year:
abt 1912
Birthplace:
Kentucky
Home in 1920:
Paducah, McCracken, Kentucky
Street:
Farley Street
Race:
White
Gender:
Male
Relation to Head of House:
Son (Child)
Marital Status:
Single
Father's name:
Henry Laster
Father's Birthplace:
Kentucky
Mother's name:
Opal Laster
Mother's Birthplace:
Indiana
Occupation:
None
Attended School:
Yes
Neighbors:
View others on page
Household Members:
Name
Age
Henry Laster 35
Opal Laster 28
Roy Laster 10
Horace Laster 9
Holland Laster 8
Here is his great grand father Henry Laster in the 1900 census.
Henry Laster in the 1900 United States Federal Census
Name:
Henry Laster
Age:
16
Birth Date:
Jan 1884
Birthplace:
Kentucky
Home in 1900:
Paducah Ward 6, McCracken, Kentucky
Race:
White
Gender:
Male
Relation to Head of House:
Son (Child)
Marital Status:
Single
Father's name:
Sam Laster
Father's Birthplace:
Alabama
Mother's name:
Jennie Laster
Mother's Birthplace:
Kentucky
Occupation:
View on Image
Neighbors:
View others on page
Household Members:
Name
Age
Sam Laster 34
Jennie Laster 39
Henry Laster 16
Mary Laster 13
Genie Laster
Charles Laster's great great grandfather Sam Laster in same 1900 census.
Sam Laster in the 1900 United States Federal Census
Name: Sam Laster
Age:
34
Birth Date:
Apr 1866
Birthplace:
Alabama
Home in 1900:
Paducah Ward 6, McCracken, Kentucky
Race:
White
Gender:
Male
Relation to Head of House:
Head
Marital Status:
Married
Spouse's Name:
Jennie Laster
Marriage Year:
1882
Years Married:
18
Father's Birthplace:
Alabama
Mother's Birthplace:
Alabama
Occupation:
View on Image
Neighbors:
View others on page
Household Members:
Name
Age
Sam Laster 34
Jennie Laster 39
Henry Laster 16
Mary Laster 13
Genie Laster 11
And his great great grand mother Jennie Laster, whose parents are from France. So we we hit a dead end with GG grand mother, being from France. Her maiden name is Vasseur.
Jennie Laster in the 1900 United States Federal Census
Name:
Jennie Laster
Age:
39
Birth Date:
Jan 1861
Birthplace:
Kentucky
Home in 1900:
Paducah Ward 6, McCracken, Kentucky
Race:
White
Gender:
Female
Relation to Head of House:
Wife
Marital Status:
Married
Spouse's Name:
Sam Laster
Marriage Year:
1882
Years Married:
18
Father's Birthplace:
France
Mother's Birthplace:
France
Mother: number of living children:
3
Mother: How many children:
3
Occupation:
View on Image
Neighbors:
View others on page
Household Members:
Name
Age
Sam Laster 34
Jennie Laster 39
Henry Laster 16
Mary Laster 13
Genie Laster 11
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Diana
One question before I start, how did you trace my line back accurately father than I can? Do you know how many Henry Laster's there was, sometimes they even the children shared fist names? My whole family line tree has this problem, we used the same first names far to much. I had to go searching gravestones to separate one from another. I could never make an accurate family tree pass that point. So is this Jenny Laster from France my direct ancestor, I don't think so. I know I do have some German and Irish in me, but no history of French.
Quite correct, census data does list most of my family as white. Now I ask you, how much do you know about how censuses were conducted back then? A lot of Laster's not in my direct line were also listed as colored, most came from the same region of N.C. as us and were related.
Race was determined by the census taken, not the individual. Look up paper genocide as well which goes deeper into the subject and the efforts to erase native ancestry.
Also this is exactly why so many assimilated into white society and why so many people say they have a native ancestry, but no clue as to the tribe. Also why most tribes require a direct line to a known native ancestor, as census data is worthless for racial identification.
But this really gets to the heart of the matter facing many today concerning native heritage. How does one prove their ancestry and who is the judge?
I don't have an answer to that question, and I don't think any one answer can fit all cases. The BIA recently changed its rules for recognition because of complaints. A Virgina senator filled a bill claiming the process of recognition was unfair to many colonial era tribes. People are already complaining about the new rules even before they begin.
Of course once recognized each tribe sets their own requirements for membership, and you move to subjects like tribes recognizing other tribes, dis-enrollment, etc.
-
well everything seem a little strange to me my people have never changed we speak our language, and live our way of life, we still look Native, we know our histories and tell you were we lived in 1200 to 2000 years ago can you? A people are not a tribal nation unless they can keep their language, government, spirituality, land,and way of life, we still have our real names like i said i lived in McCracken County with the Mannings, Canters,. and a few others whom i still in contact with. Everyone just referred to us as the Indian when we lived in Paducah my sister went to school, oh and I am the judge because I am Native
-
"How does one prove their ancestry and who is the judge?"
These are questions that do actually have answers.
You can learn how to do genealogy research through reading books on the subject and through tutorials at web sites like Ancestry and Family Search. As Diana is demonstrating, it is a methodical process that steps back one generation at a time.
Yes, census and other records may not be accurate, so more records are collected to assist.
For your own ancestry, for yourself and your actual family, you need to have your genealogy researched, Diana is laying lots of groundwork for you here. If you don't trust her work, pay someone to do the work.
Then you will know. My guess is that you are white, raised white, culturally white. Even if you have distant NDN heritage, you say your people are long assimilated, so that is where you stand - assimilated. And that is okay. It is okay to be white, to be aware of injustices, and to want to help.
Starting your own "tribe" does not help. Read through various threads on this forum to learn about how damaging false "tribes" can be.
Instead, begin where you live, as yourself. Help at the food bank, pick something humble and useful that you can do.
You have posted that you have health challenges and that you could use a rest. I encourage you to rest. Rethink and regroup.
When you claim you are NDN and sachem of a tribe, you of course will be judged, we know false tribes are a huge problem.
Each NDN Nation has a right to judge, to decide who their people are. All of us have the right to research and judge before we decide who to listen to, who to ally with.
You can learn more of your ancestry, you can learn how to accurately weigh sources. You are the judge of your own beliefs. When you step on the public stage, we the audience then also judge for ourselves.
-
I wrote all that before reading earthw7's post, her post is more important, she speaks with authority and knowledge.
-
Pretend Indian or Not
That is something each person here will have to answer for him or herself.
I have met a number of pretend Indians during my life, as have all of you. Let me see if we agree in our assessment of their personality types.
Ego needs big boost:
Claims descent from a famous Native Leader
These seem more common than they probably are as they are the attention getters and like the spotlight it gives them.
Trust me I’m (insert tribe)
Claims to be from a specific tribe, usually one well known, but lacks any proof and often does not know the history or traditions of the tribe they claim. Probably one of the most common types of pretends Indians. Needs recognition as part of a specific tribe for some personal reason most likely.
Trust me I’m Native
Claims multiple tribes to avoid have to learn anything about the history or cultures of any tribe.
We are a tribe of the (insert-recognized tribal nation)
Usually a group claims to be a branch of an established tribe. The Cherokee has a long list of such pretenders to their history.
Such and Such Tribe
Has a name that was never recorded in history and even the most knowledgeable expert never heard of. Their history if you call it that is about as accurate as their name, completely made up.
These are broad categories and I am sure you can think of more.
If I am a pretend Indian, I am not a very good one.
From a historic tribe, but one virtually unknown to most people. Worse one that has no land claim as they sold their land legally of their own free will. Also one that has no treaty history with the US and no claims against the government for wrongs, no famous leaders, no much of anything.
Heck, you almost have to be a historian to even know about them. Historians say we assimilated, well at least they got that mostly right.
We have an extensive history until 1740, and very little recorded after that. Little history, no treaties, not a snowballs chance in hell of ever getting formal recognition at the federal or state level.
If I am a pretend Indian, I am a poor one, or at least not your typical one, and made a really stupid choice for which tribe to claim.
-
Diana
One question before I start, how did you trace my line back accurately father than I can? Do you know how many Henry Laster's there was, sometimes they even the children shared fist names? My whole family line tree has this problem, we used the same first names far to much. I had to go searching gravestones to separate one from another. I could never make an accurate family tree pass that point. So is this Jenny Laster from France my direct ancestor, I don't think so. I know I do have some German and Irish in me, but no history of French.
Quite correct, census data does list most of my family as white. Now I ask you, how much do you know about how censuses were conducted back then? A lot of Laster's not in my direct line were also listed as colored, most came from the same region of N.C. as us and were related.
Race was determined by the census taken, not the individual. Look up paper genocide as well which goes deeper into the subject and the efforts to erase native ancestry.
Also this is exactly why so many assimilated into white society and why so many people say they have a native ancestry, but no clue as to the tribe. Also why most tribes require a direct line to a known native ancestor, as census data is worthless for racial identification.
But this really gets to the heart of the matter facing many today concerning native heritage. How does one prove their ancestry and who is the judge?
I don't have an answer to that question, and I don't think any one answer can fit all cases. The BIA recently changed its rules for recognition because of complaints. A Virgina senator filled a bill claiming the process of recognition was unfair to many colonial era tribes. People are already complaining about the new rules even before they begin.
Of course once recognized each tribe sets their own requirements for membership, and you move to subjects like tribes recognizing other tribes, dis-enrollment, etc.
Heavy sigh, ok you're not black nor do you have any Indian blood on your father's side of the family. I did see some Lasters that were black in the census. They were from all over such as Tennessee, Alabama, Virginia and one was even from Kentucky! But that doesn't mean you were related or part black. As for your great grandfather Henry Laster, there was only one Henry Laster that was born and raised in Paducah Kentucky at that time. I even found his draft card for WWI. Shame on you for trying to cast suspicion on your great grandfather's good name. Why am I not surprised, you people who try to play Indian have proven time and time again that you all in need of some serious psychiatric help. Be happy with who you are even if you're a janitor.
-
Earthw7
Sadly Carolina Algonquin is a dead language. Efforts are being made to revive it, but that’s not the same.
Look Native? I look native but my brother does not. I have also seen blond-haired blue eyed card carrying Indians. My grandmother lived in an Italian neighborhood to blend in and some of them looked more native than her. I don’t think what someone looks like is the best way to determine race.
Yes we know where we lived 2000 years ago; we did not forget all of our history and culture. At what point of having your cultured destroyed do you cease to be Indian? When all of your stories, or just half of them are gone? When the last traditional chief dies or the Clan Mothers no longer meet, when does the government end? When does a tribe die?
I live in Mayfield now, but I know some Mannings and Canters, as you should know they are large families in this area, and yes everyone around here just referees to us as Indian as well. And while I don’t like to judge, I have judged others as pretend Indians, because I am a Native.
-
I encourage you to stop claiming that your family is a Native American tribe.
If you want to explore your ancestry, do that through accurate genealogy. You can have a heritage club. You can have family reunions.
-
Mr. Laster, if you are chief of a tribe, where is the rest of your tribe?
A tribe is a distinct people, dependent on their land for their livelihood, who are largely self-sufficient, and not integrated into the national society.
(Bolding Mine)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tribe
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Good, now we are getting somewhere, Piff, Autumn
You both touch on the same thing, to determine if someone is a pretend Indian, you have to define what a tribe is, and there is no single definition, others have also touched briefly on it, and I have struggled with it myself. Every definition has its problems and does not fit all cases.
Some have said it is tied to the land they draw their livelihood from and are self sufficient , but not all recognized tribes have land of their own. Actually that definition matches that for a State under international law. A State is a nation but not all nations are States. A State has control over its land and its sovereign status as a State depends on the land.
Some have said that a tribe is not a family, yet this was one of the oldest definitions of a tribe as being an extended family, ever hear of clans?
So because different people have different definitions for tribes, each person has their own definition of a pretend Indian.
Since I was a kid in school every record states I am American Indian and I have always identified as such, despite the pain it has caused.
My grandmother was ashamed of her native heritage and tried to hide it, and disowned my father when he married another Indian. I grew up being refereed to as that Pagan or Heathen child by her and despised for looking too Indian, while my brother and other family who looked White was treated far differently. Had I denounced my heritage I would have been welcomed with open arms and included in her will.
But that is part of life, no escaping it. I have always been too Red for the White Man and too White for the Red Man. Unwanted by either and despised by both.
No surprise I guess that when I accidentally meet tribes from outside North America that we became friends. It was good for once in my life for other tribes treat me as an indigenous brother without questions. I am honored to have friends like them, I owe them much, and they have become my brothers and sisters over time.
While that would be nice to have this happen in my homeland, it will never be, but it has ceased to bother me like it did in my youth. I understand at least in part why. Other tribes around the world don't have frauds ripping off their culture for profit, or a thousand fake tribes seeking formal recognition and a piece of the federal handouts that go with it. Things are different here.
A person is shaped by the events in their life and how they respond to it. None of you know me personally, so I can't expect you to understand what my life has been like, but I have always claimed my heritage and will always do so whatever the cost.
Sadly I do not feel the bond with other North American tribes that I should, and do have with my Asian tribal brothers and sisters. I hope to one day build a relationship with some of my fellow Algonquins. But for now my loyalty is to those tribes I am proud to call my brothers and sisters, the Zo, Kachin and others.
So while this has been fun, this discussion will not change anything or anyone's opinion, and I really should not have spent this much time on it.
I came to this forum for a specific reason, and must attend to those matters for the sake of the tribes I am proud to call my friends.
If time allows, I will return to this thread at some latter date.
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Let start with the word--Algonquins. this is a language dialect not a nation.
Many tribes do have a clan system but like mine we do not, each nation has its own
way of identify its self. So it goes back to Land, Government system, language, Culture, and way of life.
This is why so many have problem with the Federally recognized process because they do not have the
following. Just because 200 hundred years ago a tribe existed don't mean they exist today.
We have people who are descendant of such tribes but that don't make them Native.
There is a culture that exist that does not compare to the american culture, a way of life.
Today we have crazy people who make claims then mix up everything so now we have Cherokee claiming they use Sweat Lodge which the don't, we have pretend tribes claiming the White Buffalo Calf when it is only Lakota/Dakota. All of this hurts the tribes that exist today as we fight to live you people fight to kill us
-
as you see this laster seem to have the White is right attitude for people like this they will not
listen,
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Let start with the word--Algonquins. this is a language dialect not a nation.
Many tribes do have a clan system but like mine we do not, each nation has its own
way of identify its self. So it goes back to Land, Government system, language, Culture, and way of life.
This is why so many have problem with the Federally recognized process because they do not have the
following. Just because 200 hundred years ago a tribe existed don't mean they exist today.
We have people who are descendant of such tribes but that don't make them Native.
There is a culture that exist that does not compare to the american culture, a way of life.
Today we have crazy people who make claims then mix up everything so now we have Cherokee claiming they use Sweat Lodge which the don't, we have pretend tribes claiming the White Buffalo Calf when it is only Lakota/Dakota. All of this hurts the tribes that exist today as we fight to live you people fight to kill us
THIS! OMG this is truth, for many of us whose tribes didn't use the clan system, and for the many tribes trying for recognition these days. And!! for all the cross-cultural claims by so many tribes. Even legit tribes claiming dances and ceremonies and claiming to be the tribe of origin.
So much truth in this comment, earthw7....
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I'm not supporting Laster though I do need to clarify that there are absolutely Algonquin Nations. They are in Canada. Their name for themselves is Omàmiwininiwak.
They are -
Kitigan Zibi (we have a member here who lives there.)
Timiskaming First Nation
Nation Anishinabe du Lac Simon
Abitibiwinni First Nation
Eagle Village First Nation
Long Point First Nation
Algonquins of Barrière Lake
Anicinape Community of Kitcisakik
Wolf Lake First Nation
Matachewan First Nation
Temagami First Nation
Wahgoshig First Nation
Algonquins of Pikwàkanagàn First Nation
It's really not right to disappear about 12,000 people from 13 different reserves.
-
agree but these nations have their own names
but they are not one group, so if a person claims this nation
then which part of the nation
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Don't have long to chat, sorry, so I will try to be brief.
Algonquin is a language group and most speakers are in Canada, as Sky pointed out. refers to a number of First Nations, though the term Algonquin has become politically incorrect these days, it is the term I grew up with when referring to our extended people.
We are of the Carolina Algonquin Group and our dialect was closest to the one spoken by the Lenape. But their were several tribal nations and independent tribes within the Carolina Algonquin group at the time of first contact.
Speaking of the Lenape, they are the only ones we consider our elders, and the only ones qualified to judge our culture, history and stories.
-
I understand you are trying to protect your culture and traditions from pretend Indians, that is good, but as for us, you have no fear, your traditions are not ours and our cultures have little in common.
We do not dress like you. Such flamboyant clothes are frowned on among us. We do not have the same ceremonies as you, I fail to understand why there are pretend Indians who want to mimic your culture, or that there are white willing to pay frauds to participate in them.
Even the few things we share in common are vastly different in details. We do not dance the same direction you do around the sacred fire . We have 12 poles around the the edge of the dance area with a female likeness on them. They represent the Matriarchs of the original 12 Clans of our tribes. We do not dress up for such events as your tribes do, we dress down for them. You would no doubt feel as uncomfortable at one of my tribes dances as we would at one of yours.
In the past some of my Algonquin brothers and sisters have had their traditions dishonored at your Pow Wows. They were not allowed to dance because they dance the wrong way according to you. So why should my people even attend such events where their traditions may or may not be honored?
In some ways you are as ethnocentric as any White person, unable to view things from the perspective of a culture different from your own. A good example is how some here defined what a tribe is based solely on their tribal culture.
Some tribes have a history that their tribe was created at a certain location that is sacred to them. Their identity as a tribe is intimately connected to this location, land defines their tribal identity.
We have no such story, rather we have a migration story. We wandered the Earth in the beginning, and we wander the Earth now. The time we lived in a specific region was but a mere brief moment in our overall history. So our identity, as a tribe is not tied to any one spot of land.
Some here claim that an extended family is not a tribe. The origin story of our people describes how our tribes formed, as extended families, and our marriage customs are based on this story. Which is why I while I do have the blood of other tribes in me, I do not claim them as my tribe.
Even the names of our tribes and nations were not fixed as yours seem to be. A nation of ours was known by the name of the Principle Tribe, which could change. So we have been called the Laster Tribe, the Man'toUghQueMend, The Weapemeoc, the Chesapeake and many more before that.
Also even the name of a tribe could change for the names were descriptive, The People of the Shallow Water, The People by the Nice Ocean, Lives along the Big River, or Land of Beautiful Women. So if a tribe moved, it would often change its name and important events could also change the name of a tribe.
So defend the integrity of your tribes from pretenders to your culture, but that does not make you qualified to judge another culture based on the views of your culture, for by doing so you are no different than the White man. Perhaps you have assimilated more of the White mans ways than you realize, but I can not answer that question, it is not my place to judge your culture based on mine either.
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I hope this is not too me because it confused me, what are you talking about when it comes to pow-wows,
That is a social dance created in the 1920s it is not a traditional form, and i have seen in the social dances here that people go in both directions so that made no sense to me. It depend on your status which direction you go, beside social dance vs traditional dance are too different things, so in traditional dance the dress is very modest.
What sacred fire are you talking about they don't have fires at a social dance, please don't mixed them up. I never had a pow-wow so really unsure of the comment made about dishonored could you be a little more clear, my Nation is 14 reservations and nine Reserves in Canada. I don't even attend social dances. ;)
I am Native 100% no white blood, I live among my people on my land, know my history and culture don't need to look at a book to know who I am, i don't need some story about a great great great great grandparent that might be native, my Mother and father are both enrolled members. I don't need DNA to tell me who aim, I travel too many nations and know that different culture and have relative in the Eastern band Cherokee and the Oklahoma Cherokee Indian country is small and we all know each other
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@ Charles Laster, I did your grandmother Josephine Cockrell Laster Weaver genealogy also great grand parent Frances Weise Cockrell and great great grand parents John J Weise and Josephine E Weise whom they were living with at the time of the 1920 census. All white, and 3 of the great great great grand parent 3 are German immigrants. Why am I not surprised. Charles Laster you are WHITE. So please stop with the pretendian game and just be happy with who you are. You have a very impressive family line that goes all the way back to the start of Paducah Kentucky. You should be proud of your white family.
Josephine Cockrell in the 1920 United States Federal Census
Name:
Josephine Cockrell
Age:
2
[2 8/12]
Birth Year:
abt 1918
Birthplace:
Kentucky
Home in 1920:
Paducah, McCracken, Kentucky
Street:
South 9th Street
Race:
White
Gender:
Female
Relation to Head of House:
Granddaughter
Marital Status:
Single
Father's Birthplace:
Tennessee
Mother's name:
Frances Cockrell
Mother's Birthplace:
Kentucky
Occupation:
None
Neighbors:
View others on page
Household Members:
Name
Age
John J Weise 53
Josephine E Weise 45
Anna Weise 29
Joseph Weise 17
Andrew Weise 16
[15]
Margarete Weise 12
Frances Cockrell 24
Josephine Cockrell 2
[2 8/12]
Frances Weise in the 1910 United States Federal Census
Name:
Frances Weise
Age in 1910:
15
Birth Year:
abt 1895
Birthplace:
Kentucky
Home in 1910:
Paducah Ward 5, McCracken, Kentucky
Race:
White
Gender:
Female
Relation to Head of House:
Daughter (Child)
Marital Status:
Single
Father's name:
John J Weise
Father's Birthplace:
Pennsylvania
Mother's name:
Josephine Weise
Mother's Birthplace:
Pennsylvania
Neighbors:
View others on page
Household Members:
Name
Age
John J Weise 42
Josephine Weise 38
Frances Weise 15
Agnes Weise 13
Charley Weise 12
Joseph Weise 7
Andrew Weise 5
Marguerite Weise 1
[1 11/12]
John J Weise in the 1910 United States Federal Census
Name:
John J Weise
Age in 1910:
42
Birth Year:
abt 1868
Birthplace:
Pennsylvania
Home in 1910:
Paducah Ward 5, McCracken, Kentucky
Race:
White
Gender:
Male
Relation to Head of House:
Head
Marital Status:
Married
Spouse's Name:
Josephine Weise
Father's Birthplace:
Germany
Mother's Birthplace:
Pennsylvania
Neighbors:
View others on page
Household Members:
Name
Age
John J Weise 42
Josephine Weise 38
Frances Weise 15
Agnes Weise 13
Charley Weise 12
Joseph Weise 7
Andrew Weise 5
Marguerite Weise 1
[1 11/12]
Josephine Weise in the 1910 United States Federal Census
Name:
Josephine Weise
Age in 1910:
38
Birth Year:
abt 1872
Birthplace:
Pennsylvania
Home in 1910:
Paducah Ward 5, McCracken, Kentucky
Race:
White
Gender:
Female
Relation to Head of House:
Wife
Marital Status:
Married
Spouse's Name:
John J Weise
Father's Birthplace:
Germany
Mother's Birthplace:
Germany
Neighbors:
View others on page
Household Members:
Name
Age
John J Weise 42
Josephine Weise 38
Frances Weise 15
Agnes Weise 13
Charley Weise 12
Joseph Weise 7
Andrew Weise 5
Marguerite Weise 1
[1 11/12]
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Earthw7
Sorry but I don’t know much about the history of Pow-Wows as they did not have anything to do with us and so did not know they were a recent thing.
Good to know you are a full blood, as that means a lot in many tribes as there are few left. Racial purity never meant much any of the Carolina Algonquin tribes and nations, as seen from the fact we intermarried so easily with other tribes and races throughout our history.
I have always meant to write Charlie Laster, a Senator for the Cherokee, and ask if any of his family remembers my great grandfather or grandfather visiting the Cherokee or his family. When some of our people fled the East Coast, the Cherokee let them live among them and some intermarried and suffered along with them on the trail of tears. We lost contact with families who were with the Cherokee during my grandfather’s latter years as a drunk.
Diana
Quite correct, my grandmother Josephine did not have enough Indian blood to matter, and she hated what little she had. Being the good Christian she was, I was the target of most of her hate.
I stated much earlier that I had German in me, as well as the way I was treated by my grandmother for being native. So thanks for pointing out the obvious.
Back to the point
So am I to assume that from the gist of statements here, if you have one white ancestor you are not native, that one-drop of White blood erases all native blood. With blood that powerful no wonder they were called the Master race and act like it :)
But you may use whatever criteria you want to determine if someone is a member of your culture or tribe, based on the traditions of your culture or tribe.
But it does not entitle you to pass judgement on someone from another culture that may have far different traditions than yours.
Algonquin tribes from the most ancient times are based on extended families defined by marriage customs. Does not matter if the person marrying into the tribe was Red, White, Black, Yellow, or a little Green alien from outer space. If that offends you, I really don’t care.
The non-Algonquin tribes of North America are at best, historically unknown to us, at worst, they are former enemies who have never given us a reason to trust them.
As I said before, the Lenape, are the only tribe we consider our elders, and the only ones qualified to judge our culture, history and stories, as they are the only Algonquins closest to us culturally and familiar with the history of the region.
I did not come to this forum to be accepted by the non-Algonquin tribes of North America, and therefore don’t really care what your opinion of us is. I even made sure to use a username bound to get attention.
I came here for information on frauds and people I suspected of being frauds. I am not very computer savvy and could not do the research myself, though I tried.
To that end, most of you have been helpful and kind to me despite our disagreements, and I thank you.
I have learned quite a bit since I have been here, not only about the work you do here, but also about the non-Algonquin tribes I know so little about.
I will say this is a passionate group in defending their culture.
However we are not a part of that culture.
We don’t want or need recognition of the US government or non-Algonquin tribes, and as such your opinion as to us being a tribe is irrelevant to us, we have all the recognition we ever asked for from the only ones to matter to us already.
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white priviledge at its best
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white priviledge at its best
I think the truth here is all wrapped up in that term.
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white priviledge at its best
I think the truth here is all wrapped up in that term.
Definitely.
Mr. Laster.... you are twisting what the Natives here are saying, and setting up straw-man arguments.
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I'm surprised there hasn't been more talk about how Laster is promoting those pretendian "prophecies" - you know, the ones that say all the Indians will die out to be replaced by the (all-white) "Rainbow" pretendians.
This is his self-published book:
https://www.createspace.com/5144355?ref=1147694
Which he also posted on his Facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/charles.a.laster/posts/10201952035441140:0?pnref=story
Lost Tribes Warriors of the Rainbow
Authored by Charles A. Laster
"The history of the Lost Tribes of the Weapemeoc Nation offers a unique perspective on the events of colonial history, the history of slavery, and the fight for equality and self governance by native nations.
"Their history touches on the history of other tribes and sheds light on their struggles as well.
"But it is more than just the story of a native nation, it is a call to save the earth and touches on the native prophecies like The Warriors of the Rainbow and their part in native history and saving the earth.
"It also offers insight into some of the beliefs of the Mound Building cultures, long thought to be lost to time."
These fake prophecies are genocidal propaganda.
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Could you please change the title of this post from Sachem Laster to just Charles Laster? That way when other people investigate him our website with this pretendian's white genealogy will come up first in a Google search.
Lim lemtsh,
Diana
PS. Found his grand mothers father and will be posting his genealogy shortly. Got some Irish immigrants in that family line. Wow! This guy has more immigrants than Ellis island. Lol! And I just can't find one little Indian ANYWHERE!
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I'm surprised there hasn't been more talk about how Laster is promoting those pretendian "prophecies" - you know, the ones that say all the Indians will die out to be replaced by the (all-white) "Rainbow" pretendians.
This is his self-published book:
https://www.createspace.com/5144355?ref=1147694
Which he also posted on his Facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/charles.a.laster/posts/10201952035441140:0?pnref=story
Lost Tribes Warriors of the Rainbow
Authored by Charles A. Laster
"The history of the Lost Tribes of the Weapemeoc Nation offers a unique perspective on the events of colonial history, the history of slavery, and the fight for equality and self governance by native nations.
"Their history touches on the history of other tribes and sheds light on their struggles as well.
"But it is more than just the story of a native nation, it is a call to save the earth and touches on the native prophecies like The Warriors of the Rainbow and their part in native history and saving the earth.
"It also offers insight into some of the beliefs of the Mound Building cultures, long thought to be lost to time."
These fake prophecies are genocidal propaganda.
His book has been out for eight months and there is no reader comment yet posted on Amazon:
http://www.amazon.com/Tribes-Warriors-Rainbow-Charles-Laster/dp/1505328306/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1438029280&sr=8-1&keywords=lost+tribes+warriors+of+the+rainbow
This is a comment of his from his Facebook page:
Charles A Laster It might cause a controversy. I wonder what professional historians will have to say on the subject
I guess professional historians just haven't noticed it yet!
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Mr. Laster, continuing the fakelore of the Warriors of the Rainbow book is nothing to be proud of. I've read the 1962 book, it is a discredited, anti-semetic, genocidal tract.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legend_of_the_Rainbow_Warriors
You've been called out now on white privilege. Ideally this would stop you in your tracks. I'm white, I'm not NDN and I don't believe you are either. So, our white privilege allows us to play-indian, make up imaginary tribes, get hired for lecture gigs and academic positions, interfere in nation to nation relationships, and in all sorts of ways muck things up. We can be entitled, pompous, insulting, greedy asses because we are just that privileged.
You've been called out now and I wish you would just stop. You could see this as an opportunity.
You're going the wrong way, dude! The path you are taking is well trodden and oh so wrong.
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Could you please change the title of this post from Sachem Laster to just Charles Laster? That way when other people investigate him our website with this pretendian's white genealogy will come up first in a Google search.
Lim lemtsh,
Diana
PS. Found his grand mothers father and will be posting his genealogy shortly. Got some Irish immigrants in that family line. Wow! This guy has more immigrants than Ellis island. Lol! And I just can't find one little Indian ANYWHERE!
Chuck you been a naughty boy. Doubling down on derp isn't looked on too kindly 'round here. Go on, GIT!
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Well the book you mentioned was not promoted any at all, and won't be for sale much longer anyway, too many mistakes in it. It was not intended to make money anyway and just served as documentation.
It was the first attempt to gather our stories and history. We had several versions of some stories, and I was wrong on which of those were most likely the oldest version.
After speaking with the Lenape I see that I was wrong by looking for internal consistency throughout the stories. Also I also should not have included any prophecies from anyone other than Algonquins. I only recently learned that the Rainbow Prophecy seems to have been completely invented.
But as I said, I did not know these things at the time. I don't know much at all about your tribes and history, the Rainbow thing was a big mistake. Had I had native friends like you people before writing it, I would not have made such mistakes.
And please do change the name of the thread, I only used the name to get your attention anyway.
White Privilege, LOL, that gets me every-time I hear it on here referring to me. Yes there are a lot of White people in my family tree, and they have treated me like dirt all my life. I have seen White Privilege all my life, been a victim of it, but never had the benefits of it, despite all the white in me, all they see is the Red is me, all you see is the White in me, but I am both, caught in the middle between two cultures that don't consider me a part of either.
You know, I never understood why some mixed bloods created tribes which did not exist historically. But now I think it is because they don't belong to either the Red or White culture. Unsure of their heritage they create their own tribe for a sense of belonging.
But they are wrong for seeking formal recognition as a tribe. We do not seek or want formal recognition, just to record what we can before we fade away completely. I now see the wisdom in my fathers words that we are long pass the point of no return as a people.
As I said in the intro to the book, the Weapemeoc and other Carolina Algonquin tribes are virtually extinct. The Weapemeoc will also be gone soon. We have not found any other groups like us, and the few that remain will lose interest and fade away. My only intent is to record as much of their history, as accurately as I can before the last of them is gone.
So I will not be going on book tours, or getting paid for lectures, I will not be selling any ceremonies for White consumption.
I am old and my health is not great, I will be gone soon as well, and I expect what little interest there is in our history to fade away soon afterwards.
Before I die however, I will continue to work with the Lanape and as many other Algonquin historians as I can to sort through the mess of stories and conflicting history of the Carolina Algonquins and try to record those stories and history as accurately as possible.
While I know you people do not consider me your friend, or even a Native, I still owe you all a lot for what I have learned here, thank you.
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Yes there are a lot of White people in my family tree, and they have treated me like dirt all my life. I have seen White Privilege all my life, been a victim of it, but never had the benefits of it, despite all the white in me, all they see is the Red is me,
Your parents and grandparents and great grandparents are all white, and you acknowledge your family has white privilege, but you expect us to believe that your own family is oppressing you for being "Red"? :o
You're no more NDN than they are, dude.
How many times do people have to say it: If your parents and grandparents are non-Native, you are not Native either.
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Lost Tribes Warriors of the Rainbow by Charles A. Laster
Pg 57, a claim about himself:
My Blood-Brother was Islamic and a member of the tribe. He became my Blood-Brother by saving my life when he dove in front of me to block an arrow meant for my heart. Thanks to the Great Spirit the arrow was deflected by a heavy copper collar he wore around his neck.
Pg 68, another claim:
When I moved back to Paducah Kentucky, most of the tribe there had left, only a few friends from my childhood summers there remained. I was shocked when years latter an Indian walked into my shop and gave me the Scimitar which had been passed down since the 1700's from Chief to Chief.
More:
His tribe "was a small tribe of shamans, seers and medicine men and women".
Everything is four, for directions, "cross of creation", other cultures all have this. There are four races of mankind. Each leader of each of the four races had four boys and four girls.
People of the south dance clockwise around the fire and people of the north dance counter clockwise.
"The Celtic Tribes and Nations had much in common with their Native American brothers and sisters, and suffered much the same fate."
Because most everyone has stories of Giants, we all "have a common past and shared traditions".
Medicine Wheels are used by many tribes.
A Shaman prophesied that his empire would be destroyed by a nation from Chesapeake Bay. It is a good example of self-fulfilling prophecy. It comes true because he believed it, and acted on it, setting in motion the very events which cause it to come true.
Great Spirit has chosen him.
We are all the Warriors of the Rainbow.
Bogus history, mangled interpretations of cultures (including their prophesies), a currency idea called "Native 'Wheel Dollar'", and now you don't need to read it.
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Mr. Laster, even if you are feeling your age, have health challenges, and have difficulties with your family - you are not exempt from white privilege. I hope you understand this someday. I hope you learn what white privilege actually is and how much you and I and all other white folks benefit.
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I just wanted to update Charles Laster's genealogy. I found Charles Laster's great great grandfather John Weise in the 1900 census under a different spelling, Wise. As you can see this is the same family from the 1910 and 1920 census, just the spelling is a little different. Same people, same children. The only difference is John J. Weise/Wise's parents are both from Germany. Where as in the 1910 census his mother was born in Pennsylvania. I believe the 1900 census, John J. Weise/Wise's parents are from Germany. And I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that his GGG grandparents on both sides of were probably born in the 1830's and 1840's. We are going back pretty far now and still no Indians. And we're dead ending at a lot of immigrants. Hey Charles, why don't you give us a break and just tell us where your imaginary Indian blood comes from...huh? Oh and by the way I can't find any relatives from North Carolina, maybe you would like to steer us in the right direction. Oh and one more thing YOU DO NOT LOOK INDIAN. We've seen the bad dye job a hundred times before and the stupid choker, neither one makes you look Indian.
J John Wise in the 1900 United States Federal Census
Name:
J John Wise
Age:
35
Birth Date:
May 1865
Birthplace:
Pennsylvania
Home in 1900:
Magisterial District 1, Trigg, Kentucky
Race:
White
Gender:
Male
Relation to Head of House:
Head
Marital Status:
Married
Spouse's Name:
Josaphene Wise
Marriage Year:
1891
Years Married:
9
Father's Birthplace:
Germany
Mother's Birthplace:
Germany
Occupation:
View on Image
Neighbors:
View others on page
Household Members:
Name
Age
J John Wise 35
Josaphene Wise 28
Anna Wise 9
Mary Wise 7
Francis Wise 6
Agnes Wise 4
Charley Wise 2
Robert Snyder 79
Anna Snyder
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From Piff's post above:
When I moved back to Paducah Kentucky, most of the tribe there had left, only a few friends from my childhood summers there remained. I was shocked when years latter an Indian walked into my shop and gave me the Scimitar which had been passed down since the 1700's from Chief to Chief.
(My Bolding)
Okay, now that does not make any sense at all. You were given the scimitar from "an Indian" passed down "since the 1700's from Chief to Chief" which you are saying makes you a "hereditary chief". If this scimitar had been passed down from chief to chief, it should have been passed down from your father, not just "an Indian" who happened to walk into your shop.
Mr. Laster, I hope you take to heart Piff's pleas and realize the kind of damage you are doing, especially in representing yourself as a representative for international indigenous affairs.
You said you wanted yourself listed as "Sachem Laster" on our site so that you would get our attention. Well, you have certainly done that, but not in a good way.
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Sachem must be Algonquin for Scam.
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This will probably be my last post as I don’t have the time to devote defending myself here. No one could hope to keep up with the flood of posts here without devoting considerable time to it, which I do not have.
I took the risk of being labeled a fraud by this group when I came here looking for information, and if that happened, it was a price I was willing to pay for the information I received here. For that you have my thanks.
Regardless of how little or how much Native blood is in my veins, there are some facts this group can not dispute.
Our oral history gave details not found in any history book or published paper that were confirmed by the United Kingdom and Colonial records of Virginia and North Carolina.
What I find funny is many of the claims you made against my native heritage is the same things the Lord Proprietors said to try and steal our land and right of self governance. So from my perspective, you are acting like and saying the same things as the White Privileged English Lords, ironic.
They also claimed that because Whites married into our tribes we were no longer Indian and had no claim to our land or heritage. Seems that and you both do not understand the marriage customs of Eastern Algonquin tribes or the complexities of their history.
Our history said we were Subjects of the Crown and a Sovereign Colony of the Crown with rights of self-governance, and by English common law were considered English citizens with all the rights that entails. That George Durant and the other leaders of Culpepper’s rebellion were our chiefs and headmen and fought for our rights in England and won, but the greedy colonial government of the Lord Proprietors never stopped its efforts to take control of our land.
The UK confirmed that we were in fact Subjects of the Crown and a Sovereign Colony of the Crown with rights of self-governance and common law citizens of England until the citizenship status known as Subjects of the Crown was abolished. The UK confirmed that more than once, that our leaders were arrested by colonial authorities because we refused to acknowledge their control over us, and all charges were dropped by the Crown and our leaders reinstated.
This is also supported by colonial records, as was our contention that George Durant and the others were the Sachems and headmen of our tribes. Durant proudly displayed the name of his tribe on his home and in his business dealings, and his son became the Massasoit Sachem that requested permission from the colonial government to sell our land that we may move west, yet this fact was never recorded by official historians.
And there are many more examples of our oral history that differ form official US histories, that were confirmed by historical records. The historical records confirming our oral history exceeds that of most tribes.
It would be impossible to fabricate a history that differs so much from official accounts, but is confirmed by multiple sources.
If you were familiar with history, you would know the great lengths Virginia and North Carolina went to too erase the history of tribes there, and how the anti-Indian laws forced many into hiding. That so many records still exist confirming our history should tell you something.
Instead you focus on things like us having a story about the 4 Races/4 directions, claiming it rips off your culture. Apparently you are ignorant that the story of the 4 Races/4 directions is not only found among North and South American tribes, but Asian as well.
I admire your zeal to protect your culture, but that same zeal also leads to errors.
Some of the posts I have seen here are expertly researched, logical and well written, others are poorly researched rants, but such a range in ability and temperament is to be expected on any forum. So I don’t hold it against this group, as overall your work to uncover frauds is noteworthy.
I only mention these minor problems because I think there is room for improvement.
Also I am guilty of some of the same narrow-minded ethnic centric views seen here. I know little to nothing about non-Algonquin culture and you know little about us it seems. So I can not fault you too much for judging others based on your limited knowledge of other cultures.
I also want you to know that your time with me has not been wasted, I have taken some of the things you said to heart and will be making appropriate changes.
But the fact that so much of our history has been confirmed shows that our history is based on historical facts. Granted a lot of errors still remain, and I will be consulting the historians of other knowledgeable tribes from the same period and region to try and determine which stories are accurate, and which ones were added or changed latter and are not historically accurate.
So in closing I want to thank you all for your time, help, and yes, even your criticisms. My time here has been both enlightening and educational, well worth my time and any costs to my reputation.
I wish I had more time to spend here and participate on some other threads. Again, thanks for everything and best wishes in your work here. Perhaps I can return at some latter point in time if this old coot lives long enough.
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Reminds me of EP Grondine's "Claim It Til The Bitter End" strategy. No proof of even one drop of Native on either side going back hundreds of years yet still speaking from a position of not only false blood, but false authority/rank, even blatant condescension.
These are very educational, indeed.
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@ Charles Laster, please stop with the pseudo Indian gobbledygook and your irrelevant claims of Indian heritage. We have proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that you are WHITE WHITE WHITE. You are not Indian nor do you have a Tribe. We have given you ample time to prove any Indian blood, no matter how miniscule and you couldn't even do that.
I even doubt your involvement with that other fake group IPUN, but hey, thank you for brining them to our attention.
Here's some advice, be happy with who you are, you have a rich Kentucky heritage and should be very proud of it. And quit airing your family's dirty laundry it makes you look ugly and small.
Lim lemtsh,
Diana
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Sorry I forgot, if it’s not on the Internet you people have no way of confirming or disproving something, so I better add this to my last post.
I wrote Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth II concerning our history and possible right to claim citizenship in the UK as Subjects of the Crown and common law citizens.
A member of her Majesty staff replied. That while Her Majesty was deeply moved, she does not have the authority to decide such matters.
I then contacted the British-American Parliamentary Group | Room 638 | 7 Millbank | London SW1P 3JA
Hannah Mitchell was the BAPG Administrator overseeing our petition.
UK Parliament Disclaimer: This e-mail is confidential to the intended recipient. If you have received it in error, please notify the sender and delete it from your system. Any unauthorised use, disclosure, or copying is not permitted.
As these are excepts from diplomatic Emails, I will not provide you with personal e-mail addresses, fax numbers and so on, sorry.
At first she wanted me to go through the UK Embassy in Washington,
“Apologies for my belated reply to your e-mail below. May I just check, have you consulted with the British Embassy in Washington D.C. on the question of dual citizenship? Once this has been ascertained, I would be happy to consult with colleagues here.”
All best wishes
Hannah
However after learning we had spoken with her Majesty, such requirements were quickly discarded and our petition process started. We had to prove we were who we said we were, that we were historically Subjects of the Crown and remained loyal subjects during British rule.
Then the North American Team at the Foreign office had to get involved. Once we meet the requirements of proof, only then could the issue of citizenship be addressed. For that the Foreign Office had to include the Home Office (Nationality and Settlement Operational Policy, Immigration & Border Policy) Department so they could research the law to determine if dual citizenship was possible in our situation.
Jane Whitehead, of the Nationality and Settlement Operational Policy, Immigration & Border Policy of the Home Office reached a decision on November 28th. “for the purposes of legislation from 1914 (British Nationality and Status of Aliens Act 1914) onwards it did not form part of the UK and Colonies and so birth or residence there would not give a right to British citizenship”
Thus we were relieved of our oath of loyalty to the Crown and returned to our former status as a sovereign nation under English Law. We maintain diplomatic relations with the UK and the Royal Family.
Now if you people were representatives of a government or tribe and had a valid legal reason for inquiring about us, they might respond.
However you are just some random people on an Internet forum, so I gravely doubt that Her Majesty, Parliament, the Foreign or Home office would even waste the time to acknowledge an inquiry about us.
So perhaps you see why I was not concerned about your opinion of us here. While I respect the position of many here, and am making changes based on your input, your opinion is not relevant in the long run, we are already recognized, just not in the US, and could care less about recognition in the US, our history was with the UK and the Royal Family, and their opinion is the only one that matters to us.
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OMG this guy. "I DARE you to question the Queen herself, mate!"
One of the worst debate tactics available and you totally jump the shark. You are deliberately suppressing your so-called evidence and expect everyone to look at you and see legitimacy? You are toast with beans now, guy.
...Long Live the Queen.
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Mr. Laster, I have read what you have posted several times and I am not coming to the same conclusion you have come to.
I must stress, however, that I realize you have only posted certain things here so I may be missing something, but this is what I am getting from your post:
First, you seem to have gotten a form letter from the Queen, brushing you off as nicely as possible.
Second, you applied for dual citizenship to the UK (Multiple citizenship, also called dual citizenship or multiple nationality, is a person's citizenship status, in which a person is concurrently regarded as a citizen of more than one state under the laws of those states. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiple_citizenship)
They responded that "for the purposes of legislation from 1914 (British Nationality and Status of Aliens Act 1914) onwards it did not form part of the UK and Colonies and so birth or residence there would not give a right to British citizenship”. So, aren't they simply saying that since you were not a part of the UK after 1914, then you cannot be considered for dual citizenship?
Somehow, as a result of the statement from the UK that you do not qualify for dual citizenship, you have taken it as a right for you to stand apart as a "Sovereign Nation" which released you from your "oath of loyalty to the Crown".
I am so glad that the opinion of we "random internet persons" does not matter to you and that you can continue your diplomatic relations with the UK and the Royal Family.
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It's yet another ploy to feel he's superior in this debate. This undebateable/researchable mystery authority (won't share emails so we can check the veracity of his claim) as well as the "I'm old... and frail... SHAME on you all for attacking me! I came here to HELP you damn Indins" strategy is just that. It's an irrational way to try and "win" the argument.
Sachmo, let me just say you came to the wrong crowd to get sympathy for your plights while holding so strongly to your privilege and debunked claims. Your pathetic attempt to guilt trip the people who have thoroughly and completely dismantles each of our claims in turn is truly in vain. Just like that laughable letter/email you've displayed for us to mock. If I have a rejection letter from Dartmouth, , does that mean I can claim Ivy Leaguer in my title?
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^Crikey. Typo City.
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This will probably be my last post as I don’t have the time to devote defending myself here. No one could hope to keep up with the flood of posts here without devoting considerable time to it, which I do not have.
I took the risk of being labeled a fraud by this group when I came here looking for information, and if that happened, it was a price I was willing to pay for the information I received here. For that you have my thanks.
Regardless of how little or how much Native blood is in my veins, there are some facts this group can not dispute.
Our oral history gave details not found in any history book or published paper that were confirmed by the United Kingdom and Colonial records of Virginia and North Carolina.
What I find funny is many of the claims you made against my native heritage is the same things the Lord Proprietors said to try and steal our land and right of self governance. So from my perspective, you are acting like and saying the same things as the White Privileged English Lords, ironic.
They also claimed that because Whites married into our tribes we were no longer Indian and had no claim to our land or heritage. Seems that and you both do not understand the marriage customs of Eastern Algonquin tribes or the complexities of their history.
Our history said we were Subjects of the Crown and a Sovereign Colony of the Crown with rights of self-governance, and by English common law were considered English citizens with all the rights that entails. That George Durant and the other leaders of Culpepper’s rebellion were our chiefs and headmen and fought for our rights in England and won, but the greedy colonial government of the Lord Proprietors never stopped its efforts to take control of our land.
The UK confirmed that we were in fact Subjects of the Crown and a Sovereign Colony of the Crown with rights of self-governance and common law citizens of England until the citizenship status known as Subjects of the Crown was abolished. The UK confirmed that more than once, that our leaders were arrested by colonial authorities because we refused to acknowledge their control over us, and all charges were dropped by the Crown and our leaders reinstated.
This is also supported by colonial records, as was our contention that George Durant and the others were the Sachems and headmen of our tribes. Durant proudly displayed the name of his tribe on his home and in his business dealings, and his son became the Massasoit Sachem that requested permission from the colonial government to sell our land that we may move west, yet this fact was never recorded by official historians.
And there are many more examples of our oral history that differ form official US histories, that were confirmed by historical records. The historical records confirming our oral history exceeds that of most tribes.
It would be impossible to fabricate a history that differs so much from official accounts, but is confirmed by multiple sources.
If you were familiar with history, you would know the great lengths Virginia and North Carolina went to too erase the history of tribes there, and how the anti-Indian laws forced many into hiding. That so many records still exist confirming our history should tell you something.
Instead you focus on things like us having a story about the 4 Races/4 directions, claiming it rips off your culture. Apparently you are ignorant that the story of the 4 Races/4 directions is not only found among North and South American tribes, but Asian as well.
I admire your zeal to protect your culture, but that same zeal also leads to errors.
Some of the posts I have seen here are expertly researched, logical and well written, others are poorly researched rants, but such a range in ability and temperament is to be expected on any forum. So I don’t hold it against this group, as overall your work to uncover frauds is noteworthy.
I only mention these minor problems because I think there is room for improvement.
Also I am guilty of some of the same narrow-minded ethnic centric views seen here. I know little to nothing about non-Algonquin culture and you know little about us it seems. So I can not fault you too much for judging others based on your limited knowledge of other cultures.
I also want you to know that your time with me has not been wasted, I have taken some of the things you said to heart and will be making appropriate changes.
But the fact that so much of our history has been confirmed shows that our history is based on historical facts. Granted a lot of errors still remain, and I will be consulting the historians of other knowledgeable tribes from the same period and region to try and determine which stories are accurate, and which ones were added or changed latter and are not historically accurate.
So in closing I want to thank you all for your time, help, and yes, even your criticisms. My time here has been both enlightening and educational, well worth my time and any costs to my reputation.
I wish I had more time to spend here and participate on some other threads. Again, thanks for everything and best wishes in your work here. Perhaps I can return at some latter point in time if this old coot lives long enough.
@ Charles Laster, you were warned about posting nonsensical, irrelevant gobbledygook. Stop it, you look like a crazy person. Please post proof of your Indian heritage....you've had ample time to prove to everyone your background. If you cannot, which we have suspected from day one, please leave. No more "this is my last post", just leave, we are all tired of you. You white people are exhausting.
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My reputation was not the one being examined here.
This forum has a reputation, good or bad, depending on whom you ask.
International indigenous organizations like ZoRO, ARNO, KIO and others could use a good resource for finding fraudulent individuals and tribes in North America. Yes I came here for specific reasons, and finding information on specific people that I suspected was only one of them.
We made the perfect test case. Extensively documented and only recently independently verified by the UK, virtually unknown in the US. A history that needed careful examination and time to be verified, even with the resources the UK has.
As is normally the case, this forum is neither good nor bad. It has its strengths and weaknesses.
For individuals with shady legal/business histories as well as most scam artists, you are an excellent resource.
As for unrecognized tribes, each case will probably have to be examined individually, unless we can find a better resource.
Your passion affects your ability to evaluate such cases. My tribal allies and others familiar with us will find this thread quite entertaining no doubt. Your comments are clearly more emotional than rational.
I gave specific names of individuals involved with or case in the UK, and even a date. If you think you have the authority to contact them, then do so. If you’re lucky they will reply, if I am lucky they will give you a lesson in UK law and diplomatic protocol. You are the ones investigating me, the burden of proof is yours, I have nothing to prove anymore.
If you had bothered to do proper research on UK law, you would find that our legal status is no different that hundreds of other tribes who were also Sovereign Subjects of the Crown who received the same treatment as us under UK law.
However again you did not bother to do any proper research, even with me dropping hints. How can your opinion be trusted on those who do not help by dropping so many hints for farther research along the way?
You state the obvious like it was a revelation. Yes I received a form letter the first time I wrote the Her Majesty, I was a nobody with an uncertain claim. Now I receive personalized letters from one of her Majesties Ladies in Waiting. I doubt anyone gets handwritten letter from her.
I guess I could post some photos of them on facebook or something, but I have never needed such attention from others.
So do I have an attitude, yes I probably do.
Am I unconcerned about you opinion of me, yes, in no way can it effect my legal status or my relationship with other tribes who share that legal status with the UK.
I have more than enough information now, I did not think it would happen this quickly however. I really should have stopped posting awhile back, but some of your replies are just too tempting.
Yes we will be using this site as a resource, though I wish it was a better one, it is still very useful.
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You state the obvious like it was a revelation. Yes I received a form letter the first time I wrote the Her Majesty, I was a nobody with an uncertain claim. Now I receive personalized letters from one of her Majesties Ladies in Waiting. I doubt anyone gets handwritten letter from her.
Sorry, I am so stupid! A revelation! Wow! No, I must admit, I do not receive personalized handwritten letters from one of her Majesties Ladies in Waiting.
If you had bothered to do proper research on UK law, you would find that our legal status is no different that hundreds of other tribes who were also Sovereign Subjects of the Crown who received the same treatment as us under UK law.
No, I must admit, I did not do any research on UK law. However, I am not a member of an extinct tribe attempting to get dual citizenship status from the UK--which, by the way, was turned down.
My reputation was not the one being examined here.
Absolutely, your reputation was being examined here. When you come on a site, with your given name, attaching a "chief" to that name, defending a very questionable person and stating you are part of IPUN which has a lot of very shady people attached to it, your reputation is being examined.
My tribal allies and others familiar with us will find this thread quite entertaining no doubt.
No doubt. Very entertaining.
Am I unconcerned about you opinion of me, yes, in no way can it effect my legal status or my relationship with other tribes who share that legal status with the UK.
I hate to tell you but you have no legal status with the UK -- they turned you down for dual citizenship. The only status you have now is in your own mind. As Diana said above, you are sounding like a crazy person.
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"Tribal allies" AKA fellow pretendians. 'Ear that, guvna?
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Cheerio.
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Hillbilly Wanker.
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Consensus was to ban him.
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Funny how he actually thought some rrrrrroyal mumbo-jumbo was going to intimidate a bunch of fraud-busters. Quite naff, ee was.
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His "proving" he isn't a pretendian by presenting a definition he was sure excluded him was pretty funny, too. I mean, I can prove the sky's not blue as long as you let me decide what "blue" means.