Author Topic: Mark Robert Lumaye AKA Shaman Swadwa AKA Gothi Thorbjorn (Central Oregon Coast)  (Read 45127 times)

Offline Jim Davis

  • Posts: 1
First of all I would like to say great work on what NAFPS does here! I am in full support of your efforts to protect Native American culture and religion. With that said, I would like to comment on a few things about this particular case.

First, I have done a pretty thorough search for this character and have not found anything conclusive online, which is not impossible for people to hide on the net, but if he is offering services, doesn’t that seem self-defeating? Hopefully with this individual changing beliefs (to Norse heathenism) perhaps he will drop the shaman ways.  I am surprised that NAFPS is persisting with this one. Is NAFPA now taking on defending European pagan traditions as well too? If so, I would hope that NAFPS has talked with the leaders of Asatru, Troth, etc. to make sure no legal action may come from their direction.

Also, this member “tsalagi43” appears to be an ex-girlfriend of this character and is taking her revenge on him through this site, and may I say may be breaking a few of your site rules in doing so.

From NAFPS Forum Rules: “You agree, through your use of this forum, that you will not post any material which is false, defamatory, inaccurate, abusive, vulgar, hateful, harassing, obscene, profane, sexually oriented, threatening, invasive of a person's privacy, adult material, or otherwise in violation of any International or United States Federal law.”

I would say that some of the information this tsalagi43 is posting may be in violation to this rule. Doesn’t NAFPS see that information such as birthdate, information about family members, etc. is invasive of a person’s privacy and may place this individual in line for identity theft. I don’t know about you, but I see a potential threat for a lawsuit here, again over what appears to be a jilted ex-girlfriend. I would think NAFPS wouldn’t allow that and keep a close check on what they allow people to post.

Also, I am quite surprised that a person like this would actually talk to a representative from this site, unless that representative didn’t identify themselves as such, and I would hope a group with such a noble cause wouldn’t do such a thing. That would just make this site look bad, in my opinion.

Again, just wanting to point these few things out.

Also, (again) great work NAFPS!


Offline Defend the Sacred

  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 3288
Hi Jim, We have contacts in the Pagan and related communities. As the Neopagan communities have become increasingly influenced by, and now overlap with, the Newage communities, we find many of the same appropriators and ceremony-sellers in all of the above milieu. It is particularly useful to know about other ethnic "spiritual" communities when non-Native appropriators try to claim their stolen and mangled pretendian ways are from a European culture. Quite a few members of this board are thankfully familiar enough with those communities to be able to spot those lies when they crop up.

There is also a serious problem with some American and Candadian Neopagans trying to misrepresent themselves as Indigenous. In recent years we've seen some Wiccans and Heathens from America and Canada trying to claim they can represent "Indigenous Europe," when they have no meaningful connection to any of the living cultures, in Europe or anywhere else. This has resulted in non-Natives trying to colonize everything from interfaith Indigenous councils to Idle No More actions.

Offline Defend the Sacred

  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 3288
Jim, could you go to the Member Introductions section and introduce yourself? Thanks.

I'm not sure where you're getting the "jilted ex-girlfriend" thing from, but unless you know something we don't, that's a pretty offensive way to describe someone. Many people who post here have had personal experience with the people we research here and we find it valuable to hear their side of what happened with these people.

Offline educatedindian

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 4740
Mr. Davis, we investigate any fraud of any background. Our biggest focus is on imposters who pose as Native medicine people, but we've discussed phonies claiming to be curanderos, Romany forture tellers, African traditional healers, voodoo priests, Siberian shamans, Buddhist holy men, and yes, fake pagan healers.

If you didn't find evidence of Lumaye being deceptive or doing harm you didn't look very hard. You obviously didn't read this thread on him. Or more likely I suspect you want to defend him. Is he a friend of yours or have you gone to him for spiritual matters?

And as already was pointed out to you, attacking his critics won't get you anywhere. It discredits you in fact.

Offline kahtboosted

  • Posts: 27
Hello,

I'd like to humbly offer my thoughts here. I will speak from observation and experience, and in so doing I do not claim to represent NAFPS. Nor does every person concerned about fighting cultural appropriation and offensive stereotypes represent NAFPS. People are fighting stereotypes and colonialism on many levels. But people who wants to use this forum as a research tool may post and people will investigate the figure if it seems necessary. The mods would have delete the thread if it broke the rules.

I want to speak a little about the SW WA/NW OR area for context on this thread. There are many people in that region (the area surrounding the mouth of the River), and all over this PNW really, who perpetuate new-agey white plastic culture and call it Indian. I met various folks growing up around the region, and often white people would volunteer to bring up they are supposedly Chinook, Cherokee, Yaqui, etc, but then they talk based on stereotypes and misinformation. These people need very little to provoke them to preaching new age fake NDN bs. A typical exchange would be like this:

White person: I like your hair/skin/whatever, what are you?
Response: I might begin to tell them about my parent's history, etc, and before I can finish a darn sentence, its:
White person *taking on a preachy, noble-savage tone*: "Well I'm part Cherokee/Chinook/Mayan whatever…" and before I can roll my eyes these clowns are talking about how they have a sweatlodge in their backyard, mentioning Carlos Castaneda, or how they sell thier 'traditional' dreamcatchers. Or someone would talk about 'spirit animals' and how the land is tuned to the stars. I heard it all, sometimes it would just be younger hippie or rednecky types without a clue, sometimes it would be middle-aged new-agey yuppies (without a clue) who I'd have the misfortune of working with or encountering. At one job I had to put with up with some feminist lesbian, white women clients, and heard quite a bit of this mumbo jumbo.There is like a strong insecurity to the spiritual lives of new-agers, which seems to be the reason that they always need volunteer their spiritual beliefs and affiliation, practices, etc. None of it is personal, rather they approach things evangelically (which is why they perpetuate bs so efficiently). This is what happens with ethnocentrism as the basis of their thinking.

Well, it would be one thing to smile and nod and just walk away. Afterall, these are just clueless clowns. But upon seeing how widely the garbage is getting perpetuated, I now educate them what they are preaching is stereotypical bs. No joke, that stuff like the Don Juan teachings, "red road" stereotypes and appropriating Lakota terms, etc, are spewed condescendingly out of white mouths, especially the mouths of feminist white witches, as being indigenous ways, and even by 'educated' whites with phd's who think they know all about stereotypes and are so condesendingly pc and 'culturally knowledgeable'. All this stuff gets mixed up with an offensive misunderstanding of Asian/Eastern traditions too. It's all rather annoying.

These people do not realize they perpetuate stereotypes and lies with their misinformation. They don't even care, because they don't understand/feel the cultural and social damages that are caused by stereotypes and misrepresentation. They don't see colonialism as a cultural or social reality.  Being typical arrogant white people, they have no true investment in that aspect because they think white (knowitalls who dont listen), look white, and are well-trained colonialists.

Well, alot of these clowns would surely love to stumble upon Mr. Swadwa! Afterall, he will reinforce their ideas about stereotypical new age stuff being traditional indigenous ways, and even put the stamp of Chinook on it. He will not educate them, but serve and aid them, selling them crystal talismans and telling them 'Chakra healing' is an NDN practice, and mixing it all up as being similar to his Norse pagan stuff. His writing preaches that one need only 'feel Indian' to have a right to start playing Indian. Doing all of this while claiming to be an Elder of a tribe that does not need him misrepresenting them.
And maybe some white people (who are supposedly Cherokee, Chinook, Mayan, or whatever), wouldn't see how terribly racist this all is, but the fact remains that it is undeniably promoting stereotypes, misrepresentation, and it is stomping on those ancestors whose traditions Mr. Swadwa claims to be representing.

The people here who conduct research post info because these colonialistic new age figures are perpetuating offensive, racist, stereotypes and cultural misrepresentation. I don't understand any good reason how someone could defend these ego-worshipping, self-appointed 'spiritual leaders'. They only do damage, not help anyone.
Rather than threatening NAFPS forum with lawsuits, I believe the more respectful and decent thing would be if Mr. Swadwa just stop the silly shaman stuff, or at the very least only stick to the silly Norse shaman stuff and misrepresenting white people's traditions. Most of all, maybe he'd find some inner healing if he just sat down by the River and cleared his mind of all that stuff he has crammed in his head from anthropological books and new age sources.

Peace.
« Last Edit: February 13, 2014, 09:15:50 am by kahtboosted »

Offline tsalagi43

  • Posts: 18
I am most certainly not an ex girlfriend, and am very offended at you belittling my information as some sort of revenge tactic.  I spent a lot of time with him before I knew better, and you are denigrating my experiences by trying to play them off as revenge.  I sat at the tribal meeting where the council told him to stop calling himself a Chinook shaman.  I've been questioned by the council myself for my associations with him.  I have close ties within the Chinook Tribe myself. (friends, as I am not Chinook).  If I wanted to get very personal, I most certainly could, due to the amount of time I spent with him, but that has no bearing on the fact that he presents himself as a 'shaman', claims to be as much as 50% Chinook, though he can't prove it, and claims to have been trained in "Chinook Shamanism" by ONEIDAS in Wisconsin.  Nor does it have any bearing on the fact that he advertised his services, charged for them, and continues to do so today.  He sees people getting on his trail and 'goes underground' for a bit, waiting for the trail to cool before he comes out or reinvents himself.  He's doing the Native American and Norse things simultaneously.  If you wanted personal details, I could give those in abundance as well, though.  Just not on here.

" false, defamatory, inaccurate, abusive, vulgar, hateful, harassing, obscene, profane, sexually oriented, threatening, invasive of a person's privacy, adult material, or otherwise in violation of any International or United States Federal law.”

Can you point out where I did any of these things?  I mentioned his mother, but did not give her name, so there is no way for anyone to track her down and steal her identity.  Otherwise, I do not see where I violated any of these.  These most certain are my experiences with this individual, so none of the above statement fits.
« Last Edit: April 18, 2014, 12:30:18 am by tsalagi43 »

Autumn

  • Guest
I am most certainly not an ex girlfriend, and am very offended at you belittling my information as some sort of revenge tactic.  I spent a lot of time with him before I knew better, and you are denigrating my experiences by trying to play them off as revenge.  I sat at the tribal meeting where the council told him to stop calling himself a Chinook shaman.  I've been questioned by the council myself for my associations with him.  I have close ties within the Chinook Tribe myself. (friends, as I am not Chinook).  If I wanted to get very personal, I most certainly could, due to the amount of time I spent with him, but that has no bearing on the fact that he presents himself as a 'shaman', claims to be as much as 50% Chinook, though he can't prove it, and claims to have been trained in "Chinook Shamanism" by ONEIDAS in Wisconsin.  Nor does it have any bearing on the fact that he advertised his services, charged for them, and continues to do so today.  He sees people getting on his trail and 'goes underground' for a bit, waiting for the trail to cool before he comes out or reinvents himself.  He's doing the Native American and Norse things simultaneously.  If you wanted personal details, I could give those in abundance as well, though.  Just not on here.

" false, defamatory, inaccurate, abusive, vulgar, hateful, harassing, obscene, profane, sexually oriented, threatening, invasive of a person's privacy, adult material, or otherwise in violation of any International or United States Federal law.”

Can you point out where I did any of these things?  I mentioned his mother, but did not give her name, so there is no way for anyone to track her down and steal her identity.  Otherwise, I do not see where I violated any of these.  These most certain are my experiences with this individual, so none of the above statement fits.

I was confused by this post and then realized you were responding to a post by Jim Davis which appears earlier in this thread.  I just wanted to clear that up in case anyone else is confused. 

tsalagi43, when you are responding to someone's prior post, hit the "quote" icon at the top right of their post and it repeats their comments inside your post.