Author Topic: hello from Jeanie  (Read 26262 times)

Offline jeaniesgenealogy

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hello from Jeanie
« on: October 16, 2015, 09:54:36 pm »
Hello, my name is Jeanie. I am an amateur genealogist and genealogy blogger. My ancestry is British/Irish and to the best of my knowledge I do not have a drop of Native American blood. The most popular post on my blog concerns the "myth" of Princess Nicketti/Jane Eagle Plume supposed daughter of Opechangough of the Powhatans of Virginia. My knowledge of Indian genealogy is practically nonexistent, but I do understand the genealogical research process and what constitutes proof.  It is my hope that the members of this forum can help me with answers to people who "yell" at me and tell me that not only are they related to Nicketti but can trace their ancestors to "Chief Turkey Trot" born in 1432.  I am aware of the Don Greene Shawnee Heritage Books, which are the source of most of the family tree information that comes my way.
Thank you for reading my post and hopefully you can help me stamp out some of the bogus Native American Genealogy lines.

Offline jeaniesgenealogy

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Re: hello from Jeanie
« Reply #1 on: October 17, 2015, 01:08:50 pm »
This was just posted to my blog:

I had the Appalachian Shawnee tribe (all be it not a Federally recognized tribe) verify my lineage. My line is as follows: HOKOLESQUA OPECHAN "STREAM " CORNSTALK (1628 - 1696)
BIG TURKEY HOP CORNSTALK (1660 - 1694)
son of HOKOLESQUA OPECHAN "STREAM " CORNSTALK
APRIL "TIKAMI" HOP (1682 - 1744)
daughter of BIG TURKEY HOP CORNSTALK
MARY LEWIS (1718 - 1744)
daughter of APRIL "TIKAMI" HOP
JOHN JOSEPH VANN (1735 - 1815)

I would like to be able to respond to these types of comments with a helpful answer. I don't want to be rude to them, but I would like to respond with a correct answer. I think she is talking about the Appalachian Shawnee Tribe.

Offline WINative

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Re: hello from Jeanie
« Reply #2 on: October 17, 2015, 03:39:50 pm »
Hi Jeanie,

First of all there is No Appalachian Shawnee Tribe.

Just another case of tall tales and American myths and legends.

All the Shawnee were forcibly pushed out of that area by Whites and relocated to Oklahoma.

Now were supposed to believe hundreds or thousands of Shawnee hid out in the forest or swamps instead of joining their people, and were sheltered by their enemies, and that all intermarried with Whites, and hid this fact for over 200 years?

Here's the links I found for the Appalachian Shawnee Tribe:

https://www.facebook.com/larrybuffalospirit/

https://www.facebook.com/larry.warstler

A related group:

http://www.piquashawnee.com/

Offline WINative

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Re: hello from Jeanie
« Reply #3 on: October 17, 2015, 04:10:39 pm »
Here's some links to Shawnee Chief Cornstalk's family tree and nothing is similar to the one you posted.

http://en.rodovid.org/wk/Person:591929

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cornstalk

Offline Defend the Sacred

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Re: hello from Jeanie
« Reply #4 on: October 17, 2015, 05:56:29 pm »
I know some things about the Powhatan and the fake family members that have been fabricated in that line. Most "sources" people use when claiming these things are user-submitted family trees on genealogy sites like ancestry.com. Anyone can edit those trees, and unless there is sourcing, they are not reliable. It is very common for fantastical trees to wind up inserted in otherwise normal people's collections, with everything from invented Indians to European royalty.

One of the things I look for is when a normal person has, in well-sourced trees, an unknown mother or father. Then you look at trees for them without sources and there is, for no reason, a famous person with the same surname just plopped in. Sometimes these trees will have "sources" attached, but when you open them up... the attached "sources" do not source the content at all. They are often records for completely different people.

The line in question is supposedly the family of Matoaka ("Pocahontas"). My family line has one of the women from that family, who does seem to have existed, but any details about her are pretty much impossible to pin down at this point. People have invented ridiculously-named fake parents for her, along with about 14 children she never had (including the completely-fabricated "Princess Niketti").  People have tampered with the documentation so much I can't even be sure that *her* name is right. Usually when you look at trees that claim her, the attached sources are not for her at all, but for "Rebecca Rolfe", the English name Matoaka was known by after marriage and baptism, or for an Algonquin woman whose birthdate is off by 100 years. People tend to get really dumb and gullible when they are determined to find a connection that just isn't there.
« Last Edit: October 17, 2015, 05:58:55 pm by Yells At Pretendians »

Offline jeaniesgenealogy

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Re: hello from Jeanie
« Reply #5 on: October 17, 2015, 06:38:14 pm »
Don Greene, who is some sort of "Chief" of the fake Appalachian Shawnee is making money selling his Shawnee Genealogy books. Has there ever been an official statement from the Shawnee about what he is doing? Are there any investigative articles written about him? It's one thing to tell people they're wrong, but it is so much more helpful to be able to tell them why they are wrong. Of course some of these people have issues that prevent their eyes from being opened; I had a terrible run in with a woman named Melissa Bryan, who when she not channeling her ancestors was reliving her days as Billy the Kids wife. I think some of you have heard of her. She threatened to come do me in if I didn't retract my article. But some people are really looking for the truth one way or the other.

To my shame, I know very little about the life, fate and ongoing struggles of the Native Americans, and I suspect most people are like me. I have read many of the posts here on this forum and can see how hurtful and insulting "pretendians" can be. (great word by the way) I would like to craft some responses for those who are actually looking for the truth. And to steer them away from the shysters like Greene. For example, he claims that Cleopatra Powhatan was Shawnee. I thought she was Pamunkey, but I don't really know. He purports to know the ancestry of Powhatan, Pocohantas' father. How could he possibly know this or better yet, why could he not possibly know this, i.e. the Powhatans did not have a written language at that time or their names were never been recorded. Is there any proof that Cleopatra married Opechangough?

I don't want to flood your forum with wannabes, and I don't want to be a pest myself. I just hate to see people chasing after ridiculous genealogies and perpetuating these stories. The internet is a blessing and a curse when it comes to genealogy and some of these legends have taken on a life of their own. Thank you for your time and patience. Jeanie

Epiphany

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Re: hello from Jeanie
« Reply #6 on: October 17, 2015, 06:59:36 pm »
A way to teach people that Don Greene's work is inaccurate is to learn and teach accurate genealogy methods. Show people what accurate research, history, genealogy looks like.

Nations coping with these bogus pretendian histories may or may not have the time, energy, inclination to publish refutations.

I sure understand the frustration when seeing yet another garbled unsourced genealogy claim.

Offline Defend the Sacred

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Re: hello from Jeanie
« Reply #7 on: October 17, 2015, 08:09:01 pm »
Isn't "Cleopatra" one of the fabricated family members?

Offline Defend the Sacred

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Re: hello from Jeanie
« Reply #8 on: October 17, 2015, 08:16:40 pm »
Moar genealogy dramaz: "But my grandpa said he's Indian!" Adventures in Genealogy: http://www.newagefraud.org/smf/index.php?topic=3981.0

and Say what Johnny Depp? http://www.newagefraud.org/smf/index.php?topic=3318.msg35144#msg35144

Offline jeaniesgenealogy

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Re: hello from Jeanie
« Reply #9 on: October 17, 2015, 08:31:58 pm »
I believe that Cleopatra, despite her name, was real. When Thomas Rolfe, son of Pocohantas, returned from England he petitioned the Governor to see his Aunt Cleopatra. That being said, that is all that is known about her. To my knowledge there are no records of marriage or children. This does not see to have stopped people from claiming descent from her.

Autumn

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Re: hello from Jeanie
« Reply #10 on: October 17, 2015, 09:33:08 pm »
I had a terrible run in with a woman named Melissa Bryan, who when she not channeling her ancestors was reliving her days as Billy the Kids wife. I think some of you have heard of her. She threatened to come do me in if I didn't retract my article. But some people are really looking for the truth one way or the other.

Yes, we know about Melissa Bryan.  She is pretty scary.

http://www.newagefraud.org/smf/index.php?topic=4243.0

Offline earthw7

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Re: hello from Jeanie
« Reply #11 on: October 18, 2015, 01:07:35 pm »
I do Native genealogy and i laugh at people who makes these claims because first natives did not have surnames,
plus everything was in our language, then when the people first came to our land they could not spell our names so you have all kinds of spellings, i tell people you got to know the language before you do native genealogy. Now let talk about out east there are little or no records of the people in the tribes unless they became christian and not many did that, i find that many make up their stories out east, and all want to be from an important person, plus we have no princess or king, queens or any such royalty. It pretty easy to do genealogy today so if they are white and christian you can trace them but i find that claims to Native blood after the research is usually false.   
In Spirit

Offline jeaniesgenealogy

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Re: hello from Jeanie
« Reply #12 on: October 18, 2015, 04:12:35 pm »
I thought I would share this additional list of names with you:

Powhatan Lines

1. Murmuring Ripple b: 1415
+ First American b: 1445
2 Dashing Stream b: 1474
+ Scent Flower b: 1517
3 Morning Flower b: 1528
+ Emperor Wahunsonacock Powhattan b: 1545
+ Winunuske Nonoma b: 1545
4. Cleopatra Powhattan b: 1602 (Sister of Pocahontas)
+ Chief Opechancanough Powhattan b: 1554

Amazingly people believe it.

Offline Defend the Sacred

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Re: hello from Jeanie
« Reply #13 on: October 18, 2015, 06:34:40 pm »
And many of those fictional Eastern Natives turn up in trees with parents who happen to have been born 100 years or so *after* their alleged children, and vice versa. Pure fiction.

Offline Smart Mule

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Re: hello from Jeanie
« Reply #14 on: October 18, 2015, 07:15:32 pm »
I don't for a minute believe that 'Cleopatra's name was actually Cleopatra. I understand that there is physical documentation that Thomas petitioned to be able to see his auntie. She she had been converted there is no way the church would have allowed her to take the name of an Egyptian pagan ruler (gasp!) as her christian name. If she had not converted then how the heck would she have received that name at birth? I highly doubt anyone in the community would have happened to have had a copy of Shakespeare's works laying around to influence the child's name choice. If it was a name she took on later I still highly doubt it was Cleopatra, it just doesn't make logical sense. Since it is my understanding that the name is only used once in any type of documentation, I think it was likely something that sounded similar and Thomas in his ignorance forever lost her actual identity in his mistake.