General => Frauds => Topic started by: educatedindian on May 16, 2006, 09:37:23 pm

Title: Mala "Spotted Eagle" Pope & Nanish Shontie
Post by: educatedindian on May 16, 2006, 09:37:23 pm
We had a long debate about them in the old NAFPS yahoo group. After first appearing to be an outright fraud outfit, eventually most of us thought they were sincere but naive, trying to start an "elders center" in the middle of Oregon near all the yuppies into enviro concerns. They actually got the support of a few Navajo and Western Shoshone elders, like Corbin Haney. Mala Pope managed to convince us of their good intentions by pointing to, for exmple, that they no longer associated with several frauds pretending to be Hopi elders like Catherine Cheshire. He claimed Cheshire tried to take over and failed, but was running their website without their permission. His son Red Sparrow Pope ("Rolling Thunder's" grandson) even gave us detailed information on several frauds that we used in a warning. At that point my main objection was how they were draining away funds for other Native causes for this rather foolish "education center" for yuppies.

Now, with these reports of Mala Pope assaulting and abusing women, it looks like our worst fears came true. Even John Pope at his worst never did anything close to this bad. John Pope played upon hippie fantasies about NDNs, but he also did some good work for the Western Shoshone, helped them on some issues. But I never heard about him abusing followers like Mala Pope is accused of doing.
Title: Re: Mala "Spotted Eagle" Pope & Nanish Shontie
Post by: educatedindian on May 16, 2006, 10:06:14 pm
Warnings received about Mala Pope.

koso with
Date: Mon May 15, 2006  1:16 pm
Subject: Abuse warning Tonight Leo received a message from a woman who has worked for Mala Spotted Eagle for over 7 years advising him (Leo) that she no longer will have anything to do with Mala and asking him to PLEASE help stop Mala from having any more ceremonies here in Holland.  At one time this woman had planned on moving to Oregon to live at the center there and has always been one of his greatest supporters
Mala has been recently been accused of severe intimidate of many women.  It seems that he forced several women to allow him to performed IK "healings" on them - this resulted in charges of abuse by 4 women, two of these women have also filed charges of rape.  According to her there is one women in intensive psychological therapy in Austria due to this abuse. This woman is very terrified of what he is going to do to her.  He threatened that if any of them ever told what happened  terrible things would happen to them.
Mala is now forbidden to attend the Dunja festival in Rotterdam due to other charges here in Holland, and apparently there is an ongoing police investigation about him due to complaints by several women at the Veneta County fair in Oregon.  
This woman and several other have asked Leo to call them as they are afraid to even write some of what they want to tell.  I will pass on what we find out later.

"Leo Van Kints"
Date: Tue May 16, 2006  8:07 am
Subject: RE: [ENAF] Re: Abuse
If you want to know more about what is (and has been) going on in Oregon, then you can email [name withheld] through the contact form on the NANAI site...
I had a long talk with her on the phone and she feels really guilty for promoting this guy for such a long time. All those years she gave him the benefit of the doubt, while she was noticing strange things in his camp and it was clear that he used all the money he received from donors, including the Belgium King Boudewijn Fund, for himself. His wife appears to be as scared of him as many others. She just has (had) to accept that he is doing mass ceremonies with 25 women.
Brrrr, what a creep.
koso with"
Date: Tue May 16, 2006  8:25 am
Subject: RE: [ENAF] Re: Abuse warningMala is a good example of the problems with fakes and abusers.  Like so many of these fake healers, his control over the people around him is so total that it is hard to get anyone to speak out against him.  He surround himself with the illusion of support from people like Corbin, but who knows if Corbin really supports him or not.  With so many people in Indian country playing the I'm more Indian than you I know I didn't want to go into his personal life without due cause. Perhaps it is now time. I see that he is blaming his own son for all of the money he is stealing from his donors....
Title: Re: Mala "Spotted Eagle" Pope & Nanish Shontie
Post by: Marlon on June 01, 2007, 11:22:58 pm

This is very distubing. I just took him off line.

Title: Re: Mala "Spotted Eagle" Pope & Nanish Shontie
Post by: nagualita on August 12, 2007, 03:43:07 am
I met Mala Spotted Eagle in Oregon about 4 years ago.  He is an egotistical maniac and a phony who doesn't have an ounce of spirituality in him.  He is a back-stabber and he is extremely prejudiced.  I'm not surprised that he is being charged with crimes against women, his entire reality is to use and abuse people.  I have never felt so dirty as I did after meeting this man.  His family, wife Sky and son, are like his little puppets.  He calls himself an elder, a medicine man, a healer and is none of these things.

Title: Re: Mala "Spotted Eagle" Pope & Nanish Shontie
Post by: One Moon on September 02, 2007, 08:49:32 am
 ::)I know Malla. The allegations against him were false, a total lie. The woman who started the lies did so after he fired her from a job, and later she admitted to me the allegations were false. There  were never any charges ever brought against him. 8)
Title: Re: Mala "Spotted Eagle" Pope & Nanish Shontie
Post by: Moma_porcupine on September 02, 2007, 04:58:31 pm
One Moon
If you are saying this , presumably you either know the woman you are saying started this rumor , or you know Mala Pope , or you know someone who knows these people .

People reading your statement have no idea who you , are or how credible your statment is .

If what you are saying is true , the woman who started this rumor needs to make a determined effort to clear Mala Pope's name .

She needs to contact Leo Van Kints and prove she is the same woman who spoke to him previously . She needs to convince him that she has not been intimidated into retracting her accusations , and that what she previously told him is not true .

Leo then needs to publish that this woman retracted her accusations and that he is convinced she did this without having been intimidated to do so.

If you feel Mala Pope has been wrongly accused , and you want to clear his name, that is fine , but you need to do a lot better job of this than coming on a message board with an unverifiable story as an anonymus person . For all we know you could be Mala Pope or someone who has promoted him and who doesn't want to admit they were wrong .

The people who have passed on these serious allegations have used their real name and can be verified to be who they are. They obviously beleived what they passed on to be true , and were willing to stand behind their words . If you want to counterbalance this , you also need to provide the names of people who can be verified to be real , credible , and who can be contacted . It would also help if the people you name who can counter these accusations, could be shown to have no personal intrest in supporting or promoting Mala Pope, and if these named people could be verified to be respected within the Native community . 

If Mala Pope has been wrongly accused , I admire and support your efforts to clear his name , but you really need top do a better job , than an anonymus post on a message board .
Title: Re: Mala "Spotted Eagle" Pope & Nanish Shontie
Post by: educatedindian on September 03, 2007, 04:47:33 am
It's important to note that "one moon" didn't even seem to bother to read what the charges were against Pope. One woman did not accuse him, four separate women did. Two filed charges, one is in therapy for the harm done to her. As far as I know, none of them ever worked for Pope. One of them did work *with* Pope(not for him), helping him with what she at the time believed to be a legit Native cause. She no longer does.

I'll see if I can find out anything more.
Title: Re: Mala "Spotted Eagle" Pope & Nanish Shontie
Post by: Moma_porcupine on September 03, 2007, 02:54:07 pm
There is also Patrick Quinn's reports of having talked to many woman , who alleged similar experiences in North America . (

This has been recently posted on a number of message boards . If this was only one woman who was responsible for this story , and she has taken it back , why is this story still being spread by someone who claims to have spoken to more than one person ?

In the thread on Thomas Lightening bolt and the thread on Harner it is mentioned that the moderators suspect One Moon is John Lekay . Which seems likely as One Moon seems to have similar concerns.   

Someone who sometimes identifies themselves as John Lekay , starting Thursday Aug 30th, 2007 8:40 AM , has gone off on a strangely lopsided crusade for justice for Mala Pope. This begins towards the bottom of the comment section in the article in the URL below. (

I suppose it is an improvement to trying to smear everyone involved in trying to educate people about the protection of ceremonies .

It sounds like before yesterday, Lekay hadn't even bothered to talk to anyone except Mala Pope.

In his comment posted yesterday, Lekay said he is now going to contact Leo Van Kint , but he still refuses to talk to Patrick Quinn who he says has no credibility. As he hasn't talked to Patrick, I don't see how he can know this.

It seems Lekay believes the damage done to the small minority of people who are wrongly accused of sexual misconduct, far out weighs the benefits of warning potential victims.  Lekay is also frequently reminding people that an allegation that can't be proven in a court of law is "libel".

I guess this is the newest strategy of abusers to intimidate victims of abuse into silence . There is a disturbing  article about this , in the link below. (
Title: Re: Mala "Spotted Eagle" Pope & Nanish Shontie
Post by: educatedindian on September 04, 2007, 05:02:05 am
The first link you posted has some pretty important information. I'm reposting it in whole.

Interesting claim of Mala Pope that he's a "third generation medicine man." When Trish talked to his son Red Sparrow Pope awhile back, he never claimed his grandfather John Pope ("Rolling Thunder") was a medicine man, instead calling him a ceremonial leader.

Mala Pope is Western Shoshone by his mother, but if he isn't claiming to be part of them anymore, then he must have alienated them pretty badly.

RED ALERT - MALA "SPOTTED EAGLE" POPE Options    View profile
  More options Aug 14, 9:16 pm 

Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 01:16:17 -0000
Local: Tues, Aug 14 2007 9:16 pm

Please help First Nations people by circulating this widely:

begin quote
RED ALERT: Mala Spotted Eagle Pope and the Nanish Shontie SCAM

I was in Tucson in 2001 and I saw Mala Spotted Eagle Pope with my own
eyes and I was not impressed. Pope came to the University of Arizona
in April 2001. He was supposed to give a talk, but all he did was try
to solicit funds for Nanish Shontie, an embassasingly silly "education
center" for well to do New Age types based in Monmouth Oregon.

I had done some research and found that this group started out
associating itself with known frauds on the Northwest coast the Ghost
Wolf/ crystal skulls cult and then with the fake Hopi elders and a lot
of people who appeared on Art Bell just to promote themselves. When
they were exposed, they cleaned up their act for a short while, and
then went right back to touring the country to collect funds for their
so-called education center. The charge for ceremonies by calling the
ceremonies "healings" and calling the fees "donations." This is a
standard trick among frauds. They use a lot of catch words to attract
rich yuppies like "earth friendly" and "sustainable" and throw in some
ancient cataclysmic prophesies to fool people who know nothing about
ndns. This group is real tricky. They actually study people who are
prone to be attracted to environmental causes and ndn causes and learn
how to manipulate them into giving money for this phony community.
They've even managed to defraud the government into giving them
nonprofit status. The group is all about profit. Anybody who still
thinks otherwise, is really deluding themselves.

It's pretty well known across NDN country that there have been
numerous reports of Mala Spotted Eagle Pope, disrespecting, assaulting
and abusing women. Anyone could have seen them on numerous ndn boards
since at least 2002.

No one should take my word that this is a bad guy. You can Google him
and look at what he's up to for yourself:
Google Holland
Google Austria
Ask yourself, why would a man need to travel all over the world like
that if he had roots in any real ndn community?

Or contact the NANAI site, they know about him.

I've heard lots of things about his disrespect for women at various
pow wows. I've heard many ndn women tell that some of his healings are
sexually inappropriate and that he uses his imagined status as a
medicine man to try to force women to engage in sex acts with him. I
know for a fact that there are charges of sexual misconduct pending
against him in several foreign countries. Austria and Holland at
least. Anyone could verify this information with a few phone calls or
letters. There is also an ongoing investigation about Pope in Veneta
County Oregon due to abuse complaints filed by several women at that
fair. (it's about 15 miles west of Eugene in Lane County.)
Phone: 503-378-3725 Ext. 44429
You have to pay for records

Unfortunately, sexual abuse is common among people pretending to be
ndn medicine men. That's why it is vital that ndns be able to warn the
public about the dangers of becoming involved with fakes. New Age ndn
operations like this are rife with fraud and sexual abuse is a common

When I saw Pope in Tucson in 2001, he behaved very inappropriately
towards a young Dineh woman and an older Ojibwe woman at a talk he
gave. The talk made me very suspicious since it was really just a fund
raising attempt. His grammar was atrocious, he talked more about
Christian concepts, and overall, he didn't make any sense. He appeared
to be very nervous and jumped around from subject to subject, couldn't
stay on one topic and demonstrated that he really knows nothing about
indigenous culture. It was my impression that Mala was only talking to
the white members of the audience and he was only interested in
getting money from them. He seemed irritated that native people had
shown up for the talk at all. When a native member of the audience
challenged him on his superficial knowledge of indigenous spiritual
practices and his use of tonto speak, and his claims to be a "third
generation medicine man", he became belligerent and recited the
standard new age fluff about being positive and how evil people are
who use their critical thinking skills. There was a young Dineh woman
who wanted to know why he traveled all over asking for money and who
his people were. He tried to intimidate her into silence by yelling at
her and he demonstrated that he is very quick to anger. It has been my
experience that true native elders are very slow to anger and will
always be patient with you if you have questions. Mala couldn't answer
to anyone's satisfaction as to why he was in Western Oregon. He
refused to give any details about what Western Shoshone or Cherokee
communities he claimed to be from or what the indigenous elders in
Western Oregon thought of his community. Mala has a problem respecting
women and a problem with his temper; I've seen it with my own eyes.
Someone should contact the civil and the Tribal authorities in Oregon
about him.

BEWARE of people like POPE!

Anyone who is interested in Native spiritual/environmental beliefs
should beware of people like him.

Anyone who wants to talk to me about this may contact me at
savage_minded [at]

Patrick Quinn
end quote

Thank you
Title: Re: Mala "Spotted Eagle" Pope & Nanish Shontie
Post by: westernshogirl on January 16, 2008, 12:06:45 am
Mala is a total fraud. I am an enrolled member of the Te-Moak Tribe of Western Shoshone, the same tribe which Mala Pope claims and have point blank asked him and his family members what their affiliation with the Western Shoshone people is and got several different answers. The first was that they were disenrolled (meaning that they were once enrolled but then removed from the membership of the tribe), then I was told they applied for membership but their paperwork was lost. I finally asked someone at the tribe who this family was and was told that they had applied for enrollment many years ago but were denied because there was no evidence of Western Shoshone blood.

For someone like the Pope family to take resources that rightfully belong to actual tribal people and to exploit tribal traditional practices for money and public recognition is wrong and the individuals, organizations, colleges, and universities who give them money and audiences to spread their sham made up traditional beliefs are providing a disservice to all Native American people.

Title: Nanish Shontie
Post by: AlessandroItaly on March 03, 2008, 12:23:17 pm
This community is Ok? The url is
Title: Re: Nanish Shontie
Post by: AlessandroItaly on March 03, 2008, 02:31:51 pm
I have read now the old post on Mala Spotted Eagle(Topic: Mala "Spotted Eagle" Pope & Nanish Shontie) ...terrible...I don't responde at this email that I have received from him!!!
"I recently was sent your video that you did on Native American Genocide. Thank-you for doing that. I am Shoshone and Cherokee. I am in Germany travelling doing talks about the importance of reconnecting back to many of the native teachings that helped us to live more in harmony with Mother earth and ourselves. We have a community in USA called Nanish Shontie that might interest you. Here is our website, Please keep up your good work, it is needed. Mala Spotted Eagle"

Thanks again for this important information....Alessandro
Title: Re: Nanish Shontie
Post by: Barnaby_McEwan on March 03, 2008, 06:15:23 pm
That's okay, Alessandro. It's good to hear from you.
Title: Re: Nanish Shontie
Post by: AlessandroItaly on March 07, 2008, 02:14:11 pm
That's okay, Alessandro. It's good to hear from you.

Hi Barnaby_McEwan, I have a new web site now, and a newborn, my daughter Iris :-)
A greeting to all
Title: Re: Mala "Spotted Eagle" Pope & Nanish Shontie
Post by: Barnaby_McEwan on March 07, 2008, 06:51:07 pm
Title: Re: Mala "Spotted Eagle" Pope & Nanish Shontie
Post by: educatedindian on October 05, 2008, 05:58:24 am
Yet more allegations of sexual assault, rape, and this time of the molesting of young children. The charges come from two of the mothers of the children involved, who are stating their own names publicly. They in turn say numerous others have daughters who've been abused the same.

Given the seriousness of the charges, I have to stress that so far these are still unproven charges, although one mother does vow to prosecute.

If true, I urge all victims to come forward so that no others will be harmed and justice is done. If anyone knows the people involved, please contact them to urge them to go to the police and DAs and seek prosecution.

And anyone who is in any contact with people who may be near Pope or his projects, please warn everyone as a precaution.


mala spotted eagle pope is a child molester
by spring duckett
( free_mother_earth [at] ) Wednesday Jul 30th, 2008 12:14 PM

three years ago my family lived at nanish shontie. there is a big long personal drama involved in all of this, but the reason i am here is because my daughter, who is now almost 10, claims that mala molested her. she never said anything while we were there, in fact it didnt come out until a year later when she was living with her father (my exhusband) and she told a counselor. due to strained and legal problems with my ex i have not been able to get ahold of the medical records and go to oregon to press charges, but i believe my daughter and i am caught between severe anger and great sadness. i am joining and posting here because apparently in the past year people have posted about mala being a fraud and quite frankly, i am at a loss as to how to handle this. i will not let it go, there will be retribution of some kind; i am hoping to find some way in the indigenous community that can offer suggestions other than the us goverments idea of justice. if anyone would be willing to talk with me about this, please contact me. time is not an issue, as long as i have breath in my body i will work on finding a way to deal with this so that he takes responsibility for sexually abusing my 6 year old ON HER BIRTHDAY.

shoshone tribe
by spring duckett
Thursday Aug 28th, 2008 10:51 AM
Mala Spotted Eagle Pope is indeed Shoshone, the son of Rolling Thunder. He is not lying about his heritage. however, i don't know that i would call him an elder, as he is middle aged. Poohabah was a healing center in tecopa hot springs, california, that he was affiliated with but was not his. It was a place started and run by Shoshone elder Corbin Harney, who has at this time crossed over. Corbin was one of the most amazing people i have ever known, and i am ever thankful for my brief time learning with him. i don't know what has happened with the place since then. I am not a member of any tribe, i am simply a young American woman who shares the belief that we all would be nowhere fast without our Mother Earth. I am no saint, and i am not here on this planet to fight with anyone. I am looking for a way to heal, and for my young innocent daughter to heal from the great wrong done to her by a man whom my husband and i had great respect and admiration for, that we trusted. i do not agree with or believe in the american government's ideas of justice, nor do i believe in violence, and i will continue to search for the right way to deal with this. if anyone who reads these threads has any suggestions at all i would be so thankful for their input. What is the way of the tribes to deal with something like this? I continue to pray to the Great Creator for answers, and peace in all this.

Spring, your daughter is not alone. Mala Spotted Eagle Pope is a sexual preditor.
by Teresa Maijala
Tuesday Sep 16th, 2008 11:21 PM
Spring, first of all I want to say I am so sorry for what Mala did to your daughter. I don't doubt your story at all. I am reaching out to you, as another Mother with knowledge of what Mala Spotted Eagle Pope has done to your daughter and many other young girls over at least the past 30 years. I lived at Meta Tantay along with my then Husband and two children. A son and a daughter. I know of at least 4 girls he molested there, all under the age of 5. My daughter was 3. I won't name names at the moment. But I know all these beautiful young women, and their Mothers. The thought of what these girls have had to carry and live with at this mans hands is more then I can bear being silent about.These girls have had to live with the emotional scarring, years of torment while he is free to play Spiritual leader and continue destroying the hearts souls and emotions of our daughters. Then parading around the country like someone we are all supposed to honor and learn from. It is time for his reign of terror on little girls as well as grown women to come to an end.

There are allot of people who know about his behavior from Meta Tantay. He has many enemies. We all knew and respected his father Rolling Thunder. I have to say I don't understand how he has gotten away with this for so long. Why none of us adults, intelligent men an women allow this man to continue. Honestly, I don't understand why Rolling Thunder let it go on.

I am very sad to say that his wife Sky has to know about this. If she is really a "Clan Mother" why is she letting her husband get away with this? She is in a position in these communities to leave little girls at his mercy, while she has their Moms and Dads off working here and there. Is this what a Clan Mother does? Isn't it her job to protect children? She is a teacher, right? In these communities where Sky and mala are set up as trusted leaders, where we bring our sweet babies to try and find a way to live a better life. They desecrate our families like this? Please it's time to quit keeping dirty secrets, wake up and call it what is really is! There is strength in numbers.

We don't have to be perfect people to demand justice. None of us are perfect people, including Rolling Thunder. The hard part for me was admitting we were foolish to trust them, and having my precious daughter pay with her mind, emotions, heart and soul for my dreams of a better world. My heart just dies every time I think of it.

Personally, I think prison sounds fabulous. There grown men are willing and able to do to him what he has done to our daughters. Then let him spend the next 20 years in therapy trying to get back his will to live, healing. I am putting this on the WWW because I want to go to court over the matter! I will ask every girl he has molested to come forward, and we will do it together. How many young girls will we be saving? How many don't we know about?

My beautiful daughter has suffered so deeply, I can only imagine how many others there are.
With deep sorrow,

Mala Spotted Eagle
by Hermy Jes
( hermyjes [at] ) Sunday Sep 21st, 2008 11:38 AM
I'm very sorry to read all the stories about sexual abuse by Mala Spotted Eagle Pope. I've known mala for 10 yeas and spend many summers (6-10weeks) with him and his wife Sky. The big dream was to build a community for all people for a better earth.
During my time there I did notice his strange way of reacting to women in general. His first comment when I got at Nanish Shontie was: 'did you know that Shoshone men can have more then one women?' Of course I was surprised and asked him with what intention he would tell me this. He did not answer.
Also we worked a lot in the 'community' and for the 'community'. to discover no improvement whatsoever. Nothing in 10 yrs. I did however get to hear a lot of stories about sexual abuse. Some of them heartbreaking. Using 'healing' as an excuse (elkmedicine). None of the women dared to go to the police, they were threatened in diffirent ways. One was to think of what his father Rolling Thunder was able to do. mala was able to do those things too! And even when the women in question were living in another country, he would know how to hurt them if they told.
When I heard the stories I told as many people as I could and being the contactperson in Holland for Nanish Shontie, this brought me the threat from mala too. He told me that if I would come to the States again, he would tell Native people that worked for him, how to find me and deal with me the 'native'way!
I had very good contact with Corbin Harney and he would turn in his grave if he knew even half!
The only thing I can think of is to get all the women (young and older) to get together and report together. I really think that prison is the only place this man is in place!!
I know what it is to be molested and I feel deeply for you daughter. She is lucky to have such a brave mother!

Mala Spotted Eagle is, was and always will be nothing but a huge fraud
by Just Don't Buy It
Thursday Oct 2nd, 2008 3:34 AM
Thank you for having the courage to come forward and post what you know!

It's very difficult to stop these new age frauds because they are very clever and devious and they know how to manipulate white people psychologically.

I would never judge a woman who has been sexually violated and I would never demand that she come forward.
However, there are white people who have given money to Mala who could come forward and help to document how much money has been taken in for the phoney non profit Nanish Shonte. They could demand that the IRS investigate Mala and return all the money to the Shoshone people.

Almost all of the victims of Mala's scams are white and they are too embarrassed about being fooled by this charlatan to admit it openly.
Religious scam artists, like Mala, count on this.

White people need to get over their need to always be right and to admit they've been fooled. Until they develop the humility to do this, native peopel will continute to suffer and our religious will continue to be polluted by the lies that frauds like him spread.

Nanish Shontie is an illegitimate non profit. Mala explointed Corbin to make money. Native people have tried to expose him for years, but the laws require that someone who has been victimized by the scam come forward and ask for their money to be returned. No matter how many native people denounce Mala for his fraud, no action will be taken by the racist U.S. government against him until white people who have been bilked of their money are willing to admit they are wrong.

In a racist society, this will take a long, long time.

November 2008 it buy nothing new age month.

I hope that white people will voluntarily refrain from buying anything new age for this one month and reflect on how their blind consumerism hurts native people.

Please spread the word - November 2008 - BUY NOTHING!

Thank you

elders speak up!!
by spring duckett
( free_mother_earth [at] ) Thursday Oct 2nd, 2008 9:36 AM
thank you mothers for speaking out. i would like to ask that if any elders have eyes to see these posts or ears to hear our cries that they share their wisdom, the old ways to deal with these things. prison is an ugly place but it is white justice. now dont get me wrong i am white but i dont think that it is justice, i cant pick and choose what's okay for the government to dictate and i havent seen anything that they do that would be considered of the spirit. as nice as it is to envision him in prison, i prefer to envision him forced spiritually to face his own monsters and the Great Spirit, to be healed of his demons, not consumed by them. if its just to hurt him i got better ideas than prison...thats too good for him. if any one has suggestions of where to look for elders to speak with, i will travel to them. i know they arent going to be online, but i dont want to just walk up into tribal community with these accusations, i want to go in a good way. i will honor the wisdom that comes. corbin was the most amazing person i have known and if he was here we would pray together at sunrise about it. who else will come forward to pray with me at sunrise? newe sogobia, i call to you, rise and honor your ways. they are not forgotten.
Title: Re: Mala "Spotted Eagle" Pope & Nanish Shontie
Post by: Defend the Sacred on October 05, 2008, 10:46:55 pm
quoting Hermy Jes ( hermyjes [at] ) Sunday Sep 21st, 2008 11:38 AM
I did however get to hear a lot of stories about sexual abuse. Some of them heartbreaking. Using 'healing' as an excuse (elkmedicine).

Oh, great. Blame the Elk again. I do not know Pope, but I heard another abuser use this same excuse. Because of course rape is so healing for the victim. And rapists are really just spreading the "love medicine". *pukes on keyboard*

None of the women dared to go to the police, they were threatened in diffirent ways. One was to think of what his father Rolling Thunder was able to do. mala was able to do those things too! And even when the women in question were living in another country, he would know how to hurt them if they told.

The most skilled and successful predators learn to pick out the ones they think are weak, the ones they think are least likely to fight back or go to the police.
Title: Re: Mala "Spotted Eagle" Pope & Nanish Shontie
Post by: spring duckett on October 19, 2008, 06:22:18 pm
thank you for reposting my threads from indymedia.  i do not want to see this keep happening to innocent children.  of the several emails i have received from women, i know of at least one more incident since i lived there in 2005. 

in looking at your site it seems that you try to research things a good bit. if anyone is genuinely interested in more information i am always happy to read and respond to emails and back up my story with proof.  spring duckett will not get you far on finding anything about me personally, but the people that know me including the popes, know who i am by seeing that. 

i hope he sees and knows i am speaking out.  i look forward to the day when he has to face judgement.  man's courtrooms dont do justice but i know he will see a mirror one day. 

as i said in my postings i am seeking elders to speak with about this, preferably from the shoshone since that is what he says he represents. if the big people dont protect the little people then something is wrong. 

Title: Re: Mala "Spotted Eagle" Pope & Nanish Shontie
Post by: educatedindian on April 04, 2013, 02:04:44 pm
One of the people who accused Pope of molesting and abusing children, Hermy Jes, just sent a series of messages. The first few asked that we remove his/her message. Now they are actually threatening to sue if we don't remove them.

Not sure what to make of this. At no point does Hermy Jes deny that these abuses happened. They are just saying that it hurts Pope's family.

The threat to sue is just plain delusional. Whoever heard of suing someone for simply reposting what they themselves publicly posted online elsewhere?

I have no idea what Jes hopes to accomplish or their motives. Most of the accusations are not from Hermy Jes anyway, they are from multiple other people.
Title: Re: Mala "Spotted Eagle" Pope & Nanish Shontie
Post by: Late Worm on July 15, 2013, 10:44:15 pm
I've known Mala since he was a kid.  The child abuse allegations surprise me - but I wouldn't know anything about that since I haven't seen Mala for 30 years.  But I can clarify the question about his heritage.  Mala's mother Helen was indeed Western Shoshone.  His father John (Rolling Thunder) was Shawnee/Cherokee/Cajun from the Ozarks.  "Pope" is a common surname among the Shawnee and he also had some "Blue Jackets" in his family tree.
Title: Re: Mala "Spotted Eagle" Pope & Nanish Shontie
Post by: Epiphany on July 16, 2013, 12:08:17 am
His father John (Rolling Thunder) was Shawnee/Cherokee/Cajun from the Ozarks.

Do you know where John W Pope was born, the names of his ancestors?
Title: Re: Mala "Spotted Eagle" Pope & Nanish Shontie
Post by: Late Worm on July 16, 2013, 01:20:03 am
I knew John well - over a period of many years.  I don't remember him ever telling me just where in the Ozarks he was born.  But it was very rural and remote - a cabin in the woods sort of thing.  As I mentioned "Pope" and "Blue Jacket (it might be "Bluejacket) are the only family names I heard.  It is likely that either of the families were Cherokee/Shawnee as the Cherokee "Old Settlers" immigrated to Arkansas a few years before the trail of tears removal.

As a child John developed a keen interest in herbs - I'm sure that both the Indians and Cajuns in his community used herbs for medicine in those days.  He also was a avid reader.  He really mispronounced a lot of the words he used - he learned the phonetically and they were words that people in his community didn't use.  Like if he talked about "pagans" he would say "page ins".  He told me that he had a "terrible wound" on his finger but he prounced it "wound" as in "wind up" something.
Title: Re: Mala "Spotted Eagle" Pope & Nanish Shontie
Post by: educatedindian on July 18, 2013, 01:00:21 am
This is the first I've heard of any Cajun or Shawnee ancestry. His Cherokee claims were based a supposed Chickamagua ancestor. Various Cherokee over the years have said he's a liar and that any supposed Chickamaguas hiding out in the woods are a falsehood. And there are a few Cherokee that Trisha Jacobs, a former member, talked to who believed his claims.

ETA: These supposed Chickamaugas were claimed to have hidden out further east, not part of the Old Settlers in Arkansas. Pope also had a loony claim of fighting in the Yaqui Wars. The last Yaqui War ended when Pope was 8 years old.
I don't think much of the Grateful Dead thinking him authentic. Pope was a retired railroad worker until he set himself up as a hippie guru and they all lived in an old brothel in Nevada.,
Title: Re: Mala "Spotted Eagle" Pope & Nanish Shontie
Post by: Epiphany on July 18, 2013, 04:47:19 am
Rolling Thunder's grandson Sidian Morning Star Jones wrote a book with Stanley Krippner "The Voice of Rolling Thunder: A Medicine Man's Wisdom for Walking the Red Road". They say John Pope was born in Stamps, Arkansas on 19 Sept 1916. Mother white, father Cherokee and Cajun. They write that "according to sources I consulted, his father's Native name was Yankkiller, and RT's grandfather used the same name".

According to this book, John Pope/Rolling Thunder claimed that his grandfather was a "traditional Indian chief" murdered "by soldiers and agency police". Also that his father belonged to a resistance group called Snake, and was killed during one of their protests. And that he himself was raised on a reservation in Oklahoma and began learning the "ways of the medicine people" there.

I believe I found the family in census, if so, they were white. But will have to find an obit or other confirmation to make sure.

Name:    John W Pope
Titles and Terms:    
Event Type:    Census
Event Year:    1920
Event Place:    Ouachita, Polk, Arkansas, United States
District:    109
Gender:    Male
Age:    3
Marital Status:    Single
Race:    White
Race (Original):    White   
Relationship to Head of Household:    Son
Relationship to Head of Household (Original):    Son
Birth Year (Estimated):    1917
Birthplace:    Arkansas    
Father's Birthplace:    Missouri
Mother's Birthplace:    Texas
Sheet Number and Letter:    3B
Household ID:    57
Line Number:    100
Affiliate Name:    The U.S. National Archives and Records Administration (NARA)
Affiliate Publication Number:    T625
GS Film number:    1820074
Digital Folder Number:    004293674
Image Number:    01114
     Household    Gender    Age    Birthplace
Head    Clarence W Pope    M    33    Missouri
Wife    Blanche A Pope    F    24    Texas
Son    John W Pope    M    3    Arkansas (
Title: Re: Mala "Spotted Eagle" Pope & Nanish Shontie
Post by: Late Worm on July 18, 2013, 07:00:28 am

You're opening up a can of worms.  Cherokee history is very complicated and rife with myth and tall tales.  I would say one authority to consider - considering the immigration of Eastern Indians to Arkansas before the Indian Removal - is the Arkansas Riverbed Case (Choctaw Nation v. Oklahoma 396 U.S. 620).  I've never read the case personally - only writings about it - but I am certain it contains much credible evidence about the presence of Cherokees - Shawnee - Delaware etc people living Northeastern Arkansas as early as 1780.  Whether or not they are referred to as "Chickamaugas" or not I don't know.  In the legal case they use the term "Old Settlers."

Title: Re: Mala "Spotted Eagle" Pope & Nanish Shontie
Post by: Late Worm on July 18, 2013, 07:25:45 am

Interesting.  I don't know Sidian - he must be one of John's daughter's kid.  There were two daughters I never met as I recall.  Also I've never heard the name "Yankkiller." 

But you know - RT was a cult leader after he went all BillyJack on us.  Part of cultism is being paranoid- there always has to be an enemy that's out to get you.  I can imagine John getting carried away about murder and agency in his biographical musings. 
Title: Re: Mala "Spotted Eagle" Pope & Nanish Shontie
Post by: Epiphany on July 18, 2013, 02:00:24 pm
Stanley Krippner said in an interview about Rolling Thunder:

His temper was legendary as was his sexual appetite. (

Late Worm can you describe what you saw of RT being a cult leader? Mala was born in 1952, the first Billy Jack movie  came out in 1967, Mala then would have been raised in this cult environment.

Title: Re: Mala "Spotted Eagle" Pope & Nanish Shontie
Post by: Epiphany on July 18, 2013, 06:29:27 pm
Rolling Thunder was John W. Pope, he used that name for the non profit corporation records of Meta Tantay. He used the name John Rolling Thunder Pope when he married Carmen Michelle Clevenger in 1996. He's in the Social Security Death Index as John W Pope born 10 Sep 1916, died 23 Jan 1997.

Rolling Thunder was an authentic healer and a fascinating character, whose flagrant lechery made him all the more interesting. (

Mala Spotted Eagle Pope was president of the non profit corporation Nanish Shontie, now Sandra Katherine Sky Pope is. There also is a Nanish Shonti Land Trust, Abram Heard is president, Winter Pope secretary.

Abram Heard (
Title: Re: Mala "Spotted Eagle" Pope & Nanish Shontie
Post by: Late Worm on July 19, 2013, 07:08:13 pm
I met John in 1969 and then at Battle Mountain in 1971 while I was traveling with Mad Bear's "Spiritual Indian Unity Caravan."  He joined the caravan and went as far as Salt Lake City.  During this time (from Battle Mountain to SLC) we were talking about the destruction of the Pinyon Pines in Nevada - so important to the Shoshone - and strategies to organize a protest move to stop this practice ("Chaining " in which three D7 Catepillars would drag a huge "Ely Chain" through the Pinyon groves - 20 acres per hour - and destroy the trees ostensibly to improve "marginal range land" for cattle.  So I showed up the next year at John's home to get started on our project.  At this time I think he was just getting into "commune" idea that he had dreamed up with Lawton for the "Billy Jack" script.  You have to remember that there was a lot of "Indian Movement" going on in those days and Indians were traveling all over the country.  Everyone knew that they would be welcome at John's - to camp out or what ever.  But he was also courting the Hippies at that time.  And making his plans to buy some land out side of Carlin for the commune.

Mala was about 18 or 19 when I first met him in 1971 and I don't think you could date "the cult environment" earlier than 1973 or 74 - so he would have been in his early 20s.  So I wouldn't say he was raised in that environment.  When I first knew Mala he worked at a gas station in Carlin.  As far as learning a trade of skill for his livelihood it looks like his position at the commune was it.  So it's not surprising to me that he would start another one after the Nevada commune fell apart.  The big difference between Mala and his Dad in my opinion is that John always worked - on the railroad - and essentially used his own salary to underwrite his projects.  In other words he was a "working man" while Mala was not.
Title: Re: Mala "Spotted Eagle" Pope & Nanish Shontie
Post by: earthw7 on July 20, 2013, 12:41:31 pm
I wonder why? people want to be like us so bad that they will go though great lengths to pretend to be us,
our lives are hard, then they pick these so called things to support but none of it helps the native people,
i just get disgusted with these people they no right to our ways
Title: Re: Mala "Spotted Eagle" Pope & Nanish Shontie
Post by: Late Worm on July 20, 2013, 04:34:50 pm
earthw7,  that's a big question.  I think you could spend a lifetime trying to figure it out.  The way I look at it is that we're talking about two very different things - one is the actual life experience of a native person or community, and the other is this very capricious entity born of popular mass-media culture called "Indian."  The first is real and the second is a phantasm - an idea that has no form or substance.  Somewhere along the road I learned to keep the two things apart in my thinking - not to confuse them.  Rather than believing that Native Culture was somehow threatened by cultural appropriation I just see a bunch of folks chasing phantoms of the European cultural imagination. 

That said, however, I'm saddened to see how many Indians themselves have bought into the popular culture imago of "Indian."  I guess that's the price paid when TV hit the rez.  And now we have the internet.
Title: Re: Mala "Spotted Eagle" Pope & Nanish Shontie
Post by: Epiphany on November 08, 2015, 10:09:55 pm
Quote from earlier in thread:

Rolling Thunder's grandson Sidian Morning Star Jones wrote a book with Stanley Krippner "The Voice of Rolling Thunder: A Medicine Man's Wisdom for Walking the Red Road". They say John Pope was born in Stamps, Arkansas on 19 Sept 1916.

I've found confirmation that I have the right John Pope in mind:

Name:   John Walter Pope
[John W Pope]
SSN:   543012754
Gender:   Male
Birth Date:   10 Sep 1916
Birth Place:   Stamps, Arkansas
Father Name:   Clerance W Pope
Mother Name:   Blanch V Canter
Death Date:   23 Jan 1997
Type of Claim:   Original SSN.
Signature on SSN Card:   JACK POPE
Relationship of Signature:   Signature name differs from NH’s name.
Notes:   May 1937: Name listed as JOHN WALTER POPE; 06 Feb 1997: Name listed as JOHN W POPE

(Source Information U.S., Social Security Applications and Claims Index, 1936-2007 [database on-line]. Provo, UT, USA: Operations, Inc., 2015.
Original data: Social Security Applications and Claims, 1936-2007.)

This is a white family several generations back. Maybe more in depth genealogy and family interviews would come up with actual distant heritage, I'm not seeing any.

RT / JWP married several times, possibly four.

Mala's mother is Helen S. Hernandez, she died in 1984.  In a 1937 Indian Census Roll she is listed as 1/4 Shoshone, heritage through her mother. I uploaded an attachment clip of this census.

Helen S Pope
California Death Index
Name   Helen S Pope
Event Type   Death
Event Date   15 Aug 1984
Event Place   San Francisco, California, United States
Birth Date   16 May 1922
Birthplace   Nevada
Gender   Female
Father's Name   Hernandez (
Title: Re: Mala "Spotted Eagle" Pope & Nanish Shontie
Post by: Piff on July 27, 2018, 06:49:21 pm
Discussion of his son Red Wolf Pope:
Title: Re: Mala "Spotted Eagle" Pope & Nanish Shontie
Post by: Piff on July 27, 2018, 07:18:18 pm
Both Nanish Shontie and Nanish Shontie Land Trust are active in Oregon state:

Current president of Nanish Shontie is Angela Walker. Secretary Abram Heard.

Current president of Nanish Shontie Land Trust is Abram Heard. Secretary Winter Pope.
Title: Re: Mala "Spotted Eagle" Pope & Nanish Shontie
Post by: Piff on July 30, 2018, 12:52:09 am
In the 1937 Indian Census Roll Mala Pope's mother Helen and her family:

Indian Census Roll
Census of Non Reservation Shoshone Area
Northeastern Nevada
Reservation of the Carson Agency jurisdiction
as of January 1, 1937, taken by Alida C. Bowler, Superintendent

Hernandez Caterino Mexican
Hernandez Nora Shoshone 1/2
Hernandez Helen Shoshone 1/4
Hernandez Leo Shoshone 1/4

In the category "Allotment, annuity, and identification numbers" Nora, Helen, and Leo are listed "Unal." which I assume means "unalloted".

Nora's entry was later crossed out and handwritten  words added "Died 2-15-38"

The 1940 Federal census also captures this family. Nora is listed as alive in this.
Caterino is listed as Mexican from Mexico.
Nora, Helen, and Leo are originally listed as Mexican from Nevada, that was later crossed out and W was added in for them.
Title: Re: Mala "Spotted Eagle" Pope & Nanish Shontie
Post by: Piff on July 30, 2018, 02:05:27 am
I should clarify the above post.

I don't know for certain if I have the right Helen (Hernandez) Pope family here. There are date discrepancies.

Professional genealogy work would need to be done.

What matters is apparently Mala Spotted Eagle and his son Red Wolf are not enrolled.
Title: Re: Mala "Spotted Eagle" Pope & Nanish Shontie
Post by: Piff on July 30, 2018, 02:44:49 am
So we have:

Helen S Pope
California Death Index
Name   Helen S Pope
Event Type   Death
Event Date   15 Aug 1984
Event Place   San Francisco, California, United States
Birth Date   16 May 1922
Birthplace   Nevada
Gender   Female
Father's Name   Hernandez
California Death Index


Helen Hernandez
1937 Indian Census Roll, Non Reservation Shoshone Area
Birthdate 23 May 1923


Helen Hernandez in same family group as the 1937 Indian Census Roll
estimated birth year around 1924

A genealogist would need more records to tie this up or not. Then the records would go to whatever tribe they are claiming.

Here Red Wolf is referred to as White Knife Shoshone:
Title: Re: Mala "Spotted Eagle" Pope & Nanish Shontie
Post by: verity on July 18, 2021, 10:04:07 pm
A quick note on Mala, he died in 2019.

Posted here
Pope — Mala Pope, 66, of Eugene, died May 17. Arrangements by Andreason’s Cremation & Burial Service in Springfield.

And also on his Facebook:

Mala Spotted Eagle
May 20 2019
As some of you know, Mala has passed onto the Spirit World.

Mooseman, do you know the names of  Sidian Morning Star Jones' parents? Thank you for warning us about him.
Title: Re: Mala "Spotted Eagle" Pope & Nanish Shontie
Post by: verity on July 19, 2021, 01:49:19 am
I do think Mala was his uncle. I have no proof of anything other the screen shots of the harassing and Doxing he did to me. I’m actually kind of nervous still talking about it but felt this was the safest place and that your community needed to know that his family is still trying to exploit the ndn heritage. I would want to k is if someone was exploiting my family.

The Oregon corporation Nanish Shontie Land Trust has been in administrative dissolution status since 12-12-2019. Their other corporation Nanish Shontie is also inactive, since 5-14-2020.

Sidian's parents are verified also in one of the books he wrote with Stanley Krippner, it states that his parents are Morning Star "Bundy" and Russell Jones.

I notice that Krippner is also involved in this project with Sidian Jones

What is the name of the Twitter account you mentioned?

Sidian Jones has a lot invested in maintaining the myth of his grandfather John Walter "Rolling Thunder" Pope. Harassing and doxxing critics does not change the fact that John Walter Pope lied about who he was. I'm glad that you are keeping screen shots of any harassment. You are in good company, some folks here have also been harassed for their work.
Title: Re: Mala "Spotted Eagle" Pope & Nanish Shontie
Post by: Mooseman on July 19, 2021, 02:11:22 am