Author Topic: New from UK  (Read 9525 times)

Ahriman

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New from UK
« on: February 13, 2010, 10:46:59 pm »
To everybody responding to my initial post, thanks for reading and your thought-provoking comments.

I understand I offended some people here which I did not intend. I apologise. I deleted everything.

Moreoever, I take your points that some of the stuff I brought up does not belong here, or has been discussed earlier here. If I may suggest this, it would be perhaps a good idea to group some of the threads dealing with general questions together.

« Last Edit: February 18, 2010, 01:34:08 pm by Ahriman »

Offline Defend the Sacred

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Re: New from UK
« Reply #1 on: February 15, 2010, 11:18:20 pm »
new here, I'm a German living in the UK.
... ... ...

However, to me the point of practising the inipi is not to appropriate something exotic, but to try to reclaim our own spirituality.


But how is practicing something from an American Indian culture "reclaiming [German] spirituality"?

Ahriman

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Re: New from UK
« Reply #2 on: February 17, 2010, 08:35:58 pm »
THis page is intentionally empty
« Last Edit: February 18, 2010, 08:42:27 am by Ahriman »

Offline Defend the Sacred

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Re: New from UK
« Reply #3 on: February 17, 2010, 09:02:42 pm »
I must say that I find it difficult exposing, or more precisely exposing and justifying,  personal things like my religious practice.

No one asked you to come here and talk about your religious practice.

This site is dedicated to fighting cultural appropriation. You come here as a non-NDN, claiming a right to practice NDN ceremonies.

You said you're German, but you ignore the ways of your own ancestors and try to mimic those of another people. This dishonors your ancestors. Or, at the least, neglects them.

You will find this is not a place that buys the newage idea that all ceremonies are "universal". We are not here to support Europeans ripping off NDN ceremonies, we are here to fight that abuse and expose those who do such violations to Native traditions.

And if you can't be respectful, you'll be shown the door. :)
« Last Edit: July 18, 2014, 11:02:10 pm by Kathryn »

Ahriman

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Re: New from UK
« Reply #4 on: February 17, 2010, 11:16:14 pm »
This page is intentionally empty
« Last Edit: February 18, 2010, 08:42:57 am by Ahriman »

Offline Defend the Sacred

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Re: New from UK
« Reply #5 on: February 18, 2010, 01:10:30 am »

2) Before you can fight cultural approppriation, you have to define what that is. I find the issue quite important to discuss, and I am certainly open to considering other opinions. However, don't you think there is a difference between cultural appropriation and cultural influence or cultural exchange?

What is and isn't cultural appropriation has already been discussed extensively here. We don't start over and re-state everything every time a new person arrives here. Take some responsibility for doing some research on the site. Read the older threads. Listen. Don't expect everyone to do the heavy lifting for you.

You don't see the ways your words are disrespectful. That doesn't mean they aren't.

Offline LittleOldMan

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Re: New from UK
« Reply #6 on: February 18, 2010, 01:19:43 am »
Ahriman: With great fear and trepidation and with all due respect may I offer up some facts for your consideration.  Native religion/spiritual identity/culture is not now nor has it been evangelical in nature.  I am using evangelical here in the European sense of the word.  It is inclusive only within the cultural realms of each unique Tribe.  A Cherokee will not address nor interact with the Creator in the same way as a Lokata or Navajo.   It is highly offensive to a Native American for anyone who is not one of their culture to appropriate elements of their own and private culture or Spirituality.  For these reasons alone it will be difficult for you to receive a sympathetic ear.  It is up to each Tribe with whom they will share ceremony.  In other words it goes out from the Tribe on a personal basis not a corporate one.  They may ask one in but will consider one who asks to be included as an intruder and will turn them away.  If perchance I was to find myself at a sun dance, for example, I would never attempt to participate but in my own way and within my own Spiritual identity/culture offer up prayers of support for my friends.  I have tried to give you something to think on with these comments.  One more major concept for your rumination Native Americans do not think like Europeans. Some of our ways do not translate well to a European way of thinking.  This is something that a European must take in consideration when addressing Native American culture/spirituality.  With respect intended.
"LittleOldMan"  
Blind unfocused anger is unproductive and can get you hurt.  Controlled and focused anger directed tactically wins wars. Remember the sheath is not the sword.

Offline Moma_porcupine

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Re: New from UK
« Reply #7 on: February 18, 2010, 01:47:11 am »
Quote
However, don't you think there is a difference between cultural appropriation and cultural influence or cultural exchange?

YES

There is a difference between imitation and influence.


http://www.thefreedictionary.com/influence
Quote
in·flu·ence Pronunciation (nfl-ns)
n.
1. A power affecting a person, thing, or course of events, especially one that operates without any direct or apparent effort: relaxed under the influence of the music; the influence of television on modern life.
2. Power to sway or affect based on prestige, wealth, ability, or position: used her parent's influence to get the job.
3.
a. A person who exerts influence: My parents considered my friend to be a bad influence on me.
b. An effect or change produced by influence.
4.
a. A determining factor believed by some to affect individual tendencies and characteristics understood to be caused by the positions of the stars and planets at the time of one's birth.
b. Factors believed to be caused by the changing positions of the stars and planets in relation to their positions at the time of one's birth.
tr.v. in·flu·enced, in·flu·enc·ing, in·flu·enc·es
1. To produce an effect on by imperceptible or intangible means; sway.
2. To affect the nature, development, or condition of; modify. See Synonyms at affect1.
Idiom:
under the influence
Intoxicated, especially with alcohol.


http://www.brainyquote.com/words/in/influence178464.html
Quote
Influence
A flowing in or upon; influx.
Hence, in general, the bringing about of an effect, phusical or moral, by a gradual process; controlling power quietly exerted; agency, force, or tendency of any kind which the sun exerts on animal and vegetable life; the influence of education on the mind; the influence, according to astrologers,of the stars over affairs.
Power or authority arising from elevated station, excelence of character or intellect, wealth, etc.; reputation; acknowledged ascendency; as, he is a man of influence in the community.
Induction.
To control or move by power, physical or moral; to affect by gentle action; to exert an influence upon; to modify, bias, or sway; to move; to persuade; to induce.


http://www.thefreedictionary.com/imitation

Quote
im·i·ta·tion Pronunciation (m-tshn)
n.
1. The act or an instance of imitating.
2. Something derived or copied from an original.
3. Music
a. Repetition of a phrase or melody often with variations in key, rhythm, and voice.
b. Repetition of a theme in another voice such that each part continues polyphonously.
adj.
Made to resemble another, usually superior material: imitation fur.

I think the word influence, when applied to people, tends to refer to  changes in thinking and values, where as imitation is more focused on external appearences .